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RaKaR

03-27-2009, 05:36 AM

Friends, Avaloniers,

"In the 6 seconds it takes you to read this sentence 24 people will be added to the earth population; before you've finished this, that number will reach 1000; within an hour 11,000; by day's end 260,000; before you go to bed two nights from now the net growth in human numbers will be enough to fill a city the size of san francisco.
It took 4 million years for humanity to reach the 2 billion mark; only 30 years to add a third billion and now we are increasing by 100 million every single year.

No wonder they call it the human race.

Solution birth: control; quality of life not quantity..."

What say you?

Take action! Improve the life of mankind! Save your world!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/111795148

Two other petitions calling for awareness of overpopulation and for a world wide democratic and scientific birth control are to be found here:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/world-wide-birth-control

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition

Thank you.

Salome.

BROOK

03-27-2009, 05:45 AM

What are the statistics on how many people die in that period of time?

:nono:

BROOK

03-27-2009, 05:49 AM

Come on Dan...I bet you can find that answer ...you're pretty good at finding that info really fast :mfr_lol:

BROOK

03-27-2009, 05:58 AM

So far I found 107 people die around the world each minute....
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Number_die_every_minute_in_the_US

Dantheman62

03-27-2009, 06:00 AM

At the same time don't forget how many people are dying!

Deaths/Mortality
(Data are for U.S. for year indicated)
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifNumber of deaths: 2,448,017
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifDeath rate: 825.9 deaths per 100,000 population
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifLife expectancy: 77.8 years
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifInfant Mortality rate: 6.87 deaths per 1,000 live births
Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifHeart disease: 652,091
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifCancer: 559,312
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifStroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 143,579
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifChronic lower respiratory diseases:130,933
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifAccidents (unintentional injuries): 117,809
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifDiabetes: 75,119
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifAlzheimer's disease: 71,599
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifInfluenza/Pneumonia: 63,001
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifNephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 43,901
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/images/bullet.gifSepticemia: 34,136

And I don't think this is including car crash,plane crash,suicide,guns,knife,wars,drugs,and natural disasters!
This was just a quick search and is for 2005 in the US only

BROOK

03-27-2009, 06:02 AM

See...I knew you'd come up with something great! :naughty:

BROOK

03-27-2009, 06:05 AM

Worldwide birth control...hummm

Sounds like something the NWO would come up with :nono:

Humble Janitor

03-27-2009, 06:16 AM

What exactly is the point of a petition anyway? Who are we petitioning? The Pope?

burgundia

03-27-2009, 06:18 AM

Dantheman62

03-27-2009, 06:24 AM

BROOK

03-27-2009, 06:27 AM

I agree Dan...there is PLENTY of room...we just need to take care of our planet.

Here is a video I just pulled up...this is most assuredly an agenda of the nwo...check it out :nono:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPPpg-Qtx1c&feature=PlayList&p=1E7B9015178BC913&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=17

Dantheman62

03-27-2009, 06:31 AM

For sure BROOK!

BROOK

03-27-2009, 06:33 AM

SIX BILLION people can fit into the state of Texas

Dantheman62

03-27-2009, 06:46 AM

Here's another way to look at it too, Australia has approx. 2 billion acres, now lets say for simple math that the worlds population is 6 billion, that means that every single man, woman, and child could each have 1/3 acre to live and that than leaves the whole rest of the world. I'd say there's plenty of room.
Let's just put everybody in Australia and grow food in the rest of the world, LOL

BROOK

03-27-2009, 06:50 AM

What comes after the birth control....a perfect race :nono:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L25fURO1UQs

Humble Janitor

03-27-2009, 08:03 AM

This is why when I hear people talk about population reduction, I automatically get chills. Even if they are vague, the very idea that people would even CONSIDER such a thing is evidence of mind/thought control.

iainl140285

03-27-2009, 11:08 AM

I think a lot of people freak out when they hear the term population reduction.

If it has to be done, there are two ways of going about it - the fast way and the progressive way.

Its the fast way, i.e. killing off millions through war/starvation/disease that people understandably wont tollerate. The idea of doing this is just disgusting.

The progressive way however, is to control birth rates to an extent, eg. 1 or 2 children per family. If this was adhered to by all, along with active management and education on how to maintain and manage the planets resources everybody would win. IMHO :original:

Peace
Iain

burgundia

03-27-2009, 11:23 AM

I would hate to tell those high school sweethearts who have planned for years to go to college and buy a house and start a family that they can't because there is to many people in the world already.
The root cause of not having enough resources for the population at hand, is due to the bad management of resources period! One great example is growing corn for fuel instead of food.
There is plenty of room here on earth for the population at hand. Resources need to be better managed along with pollution.

Speaking about overpopulation let's think about families in developing countries where they have 10 or more children, can't feed them, provide education , etc. Their children are born to die a few months or years after, suffering from malnutrition and diseases all their short lives. having so many children is not good for womens' health either. I wouldn't like to be a child in such a family.

burgundia

03-27-2009, 11:25 AM

WiNaDeYo

03-27-2009, 11:58 AM

I'm sorry, RaKar....whenever I see and read one of your threads (and there are quite a few) where you seek to promote this kind of action....it just breaks my heart. I don't understand this line of thought and I can't possibly imagine this as a decent soulution (no play on words!).

I do believe that most of us here in the better developed nations are aware of the responsability of bringing children into the world; infact, the old world populations are decreasing (because of economic difficulties and/or the "career" mentality) while immigrants are repopulating these territories. In the under developed nations, excessive birthrate IS a problem, and it is so sad that so many children die of hunger or childhood illlnesses; but it is also a question of tradition, religion or just "ignorance". (My mother was the last of 13 children, born and raised in the good ole USA). Educating folks would help, but I would never accept compulsory birth control...ever!

I do agree with most of my fellow Avaloners that the world, Mother Earth, could effectively sustain us all, and I do trust that we, the Human Race, will see the demise of the PTB so that we, who are of common thought, can create a functional world built on respect, trust and sustainability without making ourselves slaves nor guinea pigs under some sick leaders' "plan".

It definately sounds like a NWO proposal you make and I, personally, don't like seeing your insistent posts.... but, hey...I don't have to read them, now do I?

Peace and Good Will!

burgundia

03-27-2009, 12:21 PM

has it ever occured to you that sometimes people do not want to have any more children but they just happen as a result of the lack of education or so called "tradition". female circumcision is also a "tradition" and we condemn it. We do not talk here about forcing anybody not to have children if they want to. We are talking about finding solutions if families ( or women) can't afford to have any more children or do not want to have any more.

Connecting with Sauce

03-27-2009, 12:24 PM

Free energy+efficent engineering solution= clean water and food for everyone. period.

Remove greed, power and control from the equation and these things would come pretty quickly if decisions were made for the greater good of all of us and the planet. For this to happen we need total honesty and removing of patents etc from the equation... Of course some sort of currency is needed but only to offer a fair system which rewards hard work and good ideas. Not a currency system which robs the poor and pays the rich.

Luminari

03-27-2009, 01:17 PM

Even though I am a supporter of Billy Meier and FIGU..

Rakar and J Rod 7

Im not signing this petition, Its a pointless effort.

Do you really think in a million years that any world government is going to say;

"right, lets implement drastic birth control measures because a UFO study group says we have to"

The figure of 529 million people living on the Earth is what Semjase stated was the optimum maximum for our planet specifically.... but you could have at least rounded it to the nearest 50 million if you are going to submit that and have someone even begin to take it seriously.. They are going to question how you arrived at that very specific number.. what will you reply?
The Plejaren extraterrestrials from a different time-space configuration TOLD US that was the number of people this planet was designed to support.

And also the Plejaren say we have gone too far to turn back along a path of destruction that will culminate in a third world war resulting in the deaths of 2 thirds of the population anyway?

I guess if 2 thirds died tomorrow we would STILL have 4 - 5 times too many people on the planet according to the 529 million. So it is very important that we do take birth control measures.
But is a FIGU petition going to arouse determined global action from governmental bodies?

No, It will get a few laughs from government officials and **** alot of 'normal' people off who will mistakenly think that FIGU are pushing the NWO depopulation agenda and therefore are the enemy, which I see as a tragic misunderstanding.

When you have a situation where the friggin POPE is touring Africa telling people NOT TO USE CONDOMS!! Where do we go from there.. its mission impossible.

In 2012 the Earths population will be 7 Billion.

I welcome your advice, opinions, empathy... send me your angry responses or spiritual wisdom.

With the exception of the Talmud Jmmanuel which is a completely separate and self contained subject...
considering the vital importance of the contact information, why has FIGU not released 1 SINGLE BOOK in the english language in the last 30 years?

I could write for hours here, Im just getting started, but I will end this dialogue for now.

Universally Yours,

Luminari

Luminari

03-27-2009, 01:25 PM

I guess I am saying before we can begin to tackle WORLD OVERPOPULATION

We need to deal with WORLD STUPIDITY through a massive campaign of education especially to the poor 3rd world nations.

And as long as RELIGION is against birth control AND abortion we are fighting a losing battle.

Strike at the ROOTS! Education is the key!

burgundia

03-27-2009, 01:48 PM

BROOK

03-27-2009, 02:36 PM

[quote=WiNaDeYo;123709]I'm sorry, RaKar....whenever I see and read one of your threads (and there are quite a few) where you seek to promote this kind of action....it just breaks my heart. I don't understand this line of thought and I can't possibly imagine this as a decent soulution (no play on words!).

I do believe that most of us here in the better developed nations are aware of the responsability of bringing children into the world; infact, the old world populations are decreasing (because of economic difficulties and/or the "career" mentality) while immigrants are repopulating these territories. In the under developed nations, excessive birthrate IS a problem, and it is so sad that so many children die of hunger or childhood illlnesses; but it is also a question of tradition, religion or just "ignorance". (My mother was the last of 13 children, born and raised in the good ole USA). Educating folks would help, but I would never accept compulsory birth control...ever!

I do agree with most of my fellow Avaloners that the world, Mother Earth, could effectively sustain us all, and I do trust that we, the Human Race, will see the demise of the PTB so that we, who are of common thought, can create a functional world built on respect, trust and sustainability without making ourselves slaves nor guinea pigs under some sick leaders' "plan".

It definately sounds like a NWO proposal you make and I, personally, don't like seeing your insistent posts.... but, hey...I don't have to read them, now do I?

Peace and Good Will![/q

Your mother was the last of 13 children..meaning if we were to have only have 2 children forced through "education" ...you would not be here.
The problem is society, and willingness to help others of disadvantage...elective birth control is one thing...setting a goal to force it is another.

I've seen people from large families...and their values are more intact then the only child who most of the time seems to get everything given to them...
Coming from a large family I've seen the shared responsibility as a core value...something we could all learn from :thumb_yello:

burgundia

03-27-2009, 02:58 PM

BROOK

03-27-2009, 03:10 PM

[quote=BROOK;123750]

You had a wonderful experience growing up in a big family.However I can tell you what kind of people have big families in Poland.
Alcoholics, people with mental and psychological problems,simpletons, people from disfunctional families and the like. there was a program about a family with, i believe, 11 children. Parents were nor able to provide proper upbringing, 6 of the children were in an institution, 2 had problems with the law,etc. some of the children were mentally disturbed.
I used to have neighbours with several children. Parents were not normal, the children were like parents. Two sons ended up in jail, one daughter was a cheap whore who had children with her clients( the children were slightly abnormal too). And that everlasting stench from their flat....It was a punishment for all other families when they moved in...
of course there are exceptions to the rule, but the rule is a rule.

That is the fault of Society...that is what needs to be changed for us progress to another level of being...that has nothing to do with controlling to population.
Hopefully we are on the dawn of a new face for mankind to wear...but population control is strictly not the answer...the answer is compassion...love...education. My opinion only..but I've seen many large families busting with love for each other...and the values they learn are tremendous...they learn sharing, caring...community.
That is the lesson we all need to learn. I believe that day is dawning..more of us are waking up to the value of life itself...treasure it.
It is society, and the values of the big media, and government that have been controlling for centuries that have caused the burden of the large family.It is the government and cia that have been pushing their drugs and booze on society to the burden of the underdog to fall down and create the problems that they are thriving on today.
It is not about the large family, but the makings of society that needs to change

BROOK

03-27-2009, 03:15 PM

The community you speak of is one that the world needs to change. the mentally disturbed...need compassion and help..not to be left on the streets to forage for life sustaining avenues.
I agree there needs to be changes...but what you are proposing is not the answer....the answer is to change society, and readjust values.

burgundia

03-27-2009, 03:16 PM

That is the fault of Society...that is what needs to be changed for us progress to another level of being...that has nothing to do with controlling to population.
Hopefully we are on the dawn of a new face for mankind to wear...but population control is strictly not the answer...the answer is compassion...love...education. My opinion only..but I've seen many large families busting with love for each other...and the values they learn are tremendous...they learn sharing, caring...community.
That is the lesson we all need to learn. I believe that day is dawning..more of us are waking up to the value of life itself...treasure it.
It is society, and the values of the big media, and government that have been controlling for centuries that have caused the burden of the large family.It is the government and cia that have been pushing their drugs and booze on society to the burden of the underdog to fall down and create the problems that they are thriving on today.
It is not about the large family, but the makings of society that needs to change

You are right on that one. but i have a question. can we increase and increase and increase our numbers? what if there is no war, no famine, no disease, free energy for everyone, our life span getting longer, etc. what then?

Northern Boy

03-27-2009, 03:38 PM

I tend to lump this right in there with Global Warming it is a farce . You really think population Control is the way go ahead But think of this Al Gore is pushing for a carbon tax we will all have to pay it 10 to 15 years ago the utter deforestation of the Amazon was going on millions of trees being cut down Trees that filter C02 out of the air and now they want to lay the bullshi* global warming **** on us And they haven`t even made an attempt to plant new trees where the old ones were taken from or any where else . By signing this petition you give them power over you to control population as they see fit not as you see it .

Dantheman62

03-27-2009, 04:12 PM

Luminari

03-28-2009, 01:18 AM

Some good points here but basically it comes down to better education and better resource management, because there's plenty of room for even more people and I'll quote myself...............

Here's another way to look at it too, Australia has approx. 2 billion acres, now lets say for simple math that the worlds population is 6 billion, that means that every single man, woman, and child could each have 1/3 acre to live and that than leaves the whole rest of the world. I'd say there's plenty of room.
Let's just put everybody in Australia and grow food in the rest of the world, LOL

Australia barely has enough water for the few people (only 22 million) already here. Im not even allowed to have a shower longer than 4 minutes by law. With huge advances in the area of 'Water Desalination' making this technology very cheap and easy, we could possibly do as you say. After all we live on a WATER PLANET it seems ridiculous that there should be any droughts at all.

If everyone turns off the TV and works on the water desalination issues we could transform all the desert regions of the Earth into emerald nirvanas.

But why keep mentioning Australia when RUSSIA is almost 3 times the size.

But hey if we experience this pole-shift we can all move to ANTARCTICA!

http://Luminari.fileave.com/antartica-beer.gif

Rainchild

03-28-2009, 03:11 AM

SIX BILLION people can fit into the state of Texas

Look it doesn't matter if the planet can sustain that amount of people or not. The fact is the planet, i.e. the people, are not ready for this kind of explosion. They are not ready for it economically or emotionally. There is strong evidence that that planet Earth has limits to how large a population it can support, although we don't know what those limits are. It was documented in a report called, Limits to growth, and was written by Donella Meadows. It was heavily criticized in it's time, but by1984 The Worldwatch institute had repeatedly showed that her report was indeed correct. What is clear from this evidence is that the risk of degredation of the environment, coupled with population pressure, is real and growing. Business as usual WILL kill us. I for one don't want to live in a population like china where a million people can be in one place. If the population gets large enough we might get to a point where we live in a state where there is no privacy where numerous families are packed in ONE home. Thats how crowded it could get at the rate we're going.

I don't agree with Billy Meir's way of handling it because it's too aggressive and might give eugenicists an excuse to sterilize the "genetically flawed", as they see it. I prefer a system of consent. I believe that if people know there is a problem they will treat it as a problem.

burgundia

03-28-2009, 10:41 AM

With all the problems taken care of....focus can be on becoming a galactic society....colonize another planet....the universe can sustain any size population!

Yes, but for now we are here and we do not know when we'll be able to colonize other planets.
and after we have already colonize them, does it mean that we can multiply endlessly on earth and then send surplus people to other planets?
There must be something else, a complete shift in the consciousness of all humans and taking responsibility for our own fate and Earth.

RaKaR

03-30-2009, 07:06 PM

Steve_G

03-30-2009, 08:11 PM

Billion people face famine by mid-century, says top US scientist

From Times Online
March 23, 2009

"Famines affecting a billion people will threaten global food security during the 21st century, according to a leading US scientist.

Nina Fedoroff, the US State Department chief scientist, is convinced that food shortages will be the biggest challenge facing the world as temperatures and population levels rise. Food security in the coming years, she said, is “a huge problem” that has been met with little more than complacency. “We are asleep at the switch,” she said.

Her warning echoes comments by John Beddington, Britain’s chief scientist, last week in which he forecast a "perfect storm” of food, water and energy shortages by 2030.

Dr Fedoroff, who advises Hillary Clinton, said famines that strike a billion people are quite possible in a world where climate change has damaged food production and the human population has risen to nine billion.

Population levels have already exceeded six billion and are expected to rise to nine billion by the middle of the century unless action is taken. "

http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=3626&pst=1013288

Namaste.

Since when is anyone connected to Hilary Clinton a reliable source of information?

Firstly, famines wouldn't be such a problem if Big Argiculture wasn't decimating the food gene pool so it can make a massive profit on patented seeds that do not produce crops that reproduce naturally.

Secondly, populations that were surviving just fine on subsistence farming have been forced by Big Agriculture to stop growing food and start growing cash crops for them.

Thirdly, free energy technology THAT EXISTS RIGHT NOW could solve any and all problems relating to the environment. Most of the cost of ANYTHING is the energy needed to produce it- we could have 100% recycling, 100% environmental cleanup and 0% CO2 emmissions (not that those actually make any difference) if they would release this technology, but so far we aren't seeing jack ****.

Lastly, that same free energy would solve the water problem. Desert regions could easily be irrigated and fresh water would be abundantly available to the ENTIRE PLANET. ULtimately there would be no food shortagem no energy shortage and no water shortage.

We aren't in balance with the planet because we haven't been allowed to be; the pursuit of the almighty dollar trumps all other considerations to the soulless maniacs who CURRENTLY run this place.

The problem is there's NO PROFIT in any of that for the multinational corporations who currently have mankind by the balls and are squeezing harder every day.

So the solution to the problems that the fear-mongering, power crazy elite like Hillary and her ilk have created is not population control, it's releasing the free energy technology.

This is why, on a personal level, I do not agree with pushing NWO population control measures designed to further cement their own positions of power and luxury while millions starve and dies of preventable diseases due to unclean drinking water and abject poverty.

Citing establishment scientists who have their own fat paychecks to protect and Totalitarian New World Order agendas to implement from an article in the corporate media does little to strengthen your argument.

No offence, just my 2 cents.

Blessings

RaKaR

03-30-2009, 09:24 PM

Dear Steve_G,

With 'could' and 'would' not much has been so far achieved, i am afraid.

IS IT SELFISH TO HAVE MORE THAN TWO CHILDREN?

By Margaret Ryan
BBC News

"Is having more than two children selfish? The future of the planet rarely plays a part when planning a family, but that's got to change, say environmental campaigners.
Parents who have more than two children are "irresponsible" for placing an intolerable burden on resources and increasing damage to eco-systems, says a leading green campaigner.
Curbing population growth through contraception must play a role in fighting global warming, argues Jonathon Porritt.

This week, the Optimum Population Trust (OPT), of which Mr Porrit is a patron, launched its "Stop at Two" online pledge to encourage couples to limit their family's size."
[...]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7884138.stm

Namaste.

Namaste,

RaKaR

03-30-2009, 09:35 PM

Steve_G :
"Citing establishment scientists who have their own fat paychecks to protect and Totalitarian New World Order agendas to implement from an article in the corporate media does little to strengthen your argument.

No offence, just my 2 cents. "

What about this:

www.thevenusproject.com/ Zeitgeist - do please pay attention to point 12 (*)

This new experimental city would be devoted to working towards the aims and goals of The Venus Project, which are:

1. Conserving all the world's resources as the common heritage of all of the Earth’s people.
2. Transcending all of the artificial boundaries that separate people.
3. Evolving from a monetary-based economy to a resource-based world economy.
4. Reclaiming and restoring the natural environment to the best of our ability.
5. Redesigning our cities, transportation systems, and agricultural and industrial plants so that they are energy efficient, clean, and conveniently serve the needs of all people.
6. Evolving towards a cybernated society that can gradually outgrow the need for all political local, national, and supra-national governments as a means of social management.
7. Sharing and applying all of the new technologies for the benefit of all nations.
8. Using clean, renewable energy sources such as wind, solar, geothermal, and tidal power, etc.
9. Ultimately utilizing the highest quality products for the benefit of all the world’s people.
10. Requiring environmental impact studies prior to construction of any mega-projects.
11. Encouraging the widest range of creativity and incentive toward constructive endeavor.
*12. Assisting in stabilizing the world’s population through education and voluntary birth-control to conform to the carrying capacity of the earth.
13. Outgrowing nationalism, bigotry and prejudice through education.
14. Eliminating any type of elitism, technical or otherwise.
15. Arriving at methodologies by careful research rather than random opinions.
16. Enhancing communication in the new schools so that our language and education is relevant to the physical conditions of the world around us.
17. Providing not only the necessities of life but also offering challenges that stimulate the mind, emphasizing individuality rather than uniformity.
18. Finally, preparing people intellectually and emotionally for the possible changes that lie ahead.

Namaste back.

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 06:44 AM

EXACTLY!! Or somewhere the size of Australia, where they would each be able to have a plot of land.

This petition fits right in with the Committee of 300, Club of Rome, Trilateral Commission and all those elitist think tanks' plans for depopulation.....Look at the Georgia Guidestones.

It stinks of propaganda.

Do please remember: we, humans, are not the only inhabitants of this planet.
The flora and fauna deserve more respect.

Regards.

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 06:54 AM

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 07:10 AM

Steve_G:
"Since when is anyone connected to Hilary Clinton a reliable source of information?"

I don't know.
What i know for sure, is that objective data remain objective data - no matter where they are from.
The quoted scientist is not the only one disturbing our appetite, so to speak. There are many others out there, who drew the same conclusion: there is a terrible lack of balance between the number of human population and this planet, as a closed system - yes, closed: there are certainly endless planets and stars out there, but we are and can be only here. For the time being.

We could continue the 'witch chase'(Hilary, NWO, Illuminati...) or have a serious and impassionate look to ourselves, our ways of life, our spiritual world and the state of our world, its flora and fauna and take our responsibility.

What i, each way, try not to do, is indeed to throw the message together with the messenger - i happen not to particularly like.

Namaste.

BROOK

03-31-2009, 07:11 AM

BROOK

03-31-2009, 07:16 AM

You are right on that one. but i have a question. can we increase and increase and increase our numbers? what if there is no war, no famine, no disease, free energy for everyone, our life span getting longer, etc. what then?

Nature has a way of balance...all we need to do is respect the world we live in...and take care of mother earth...she will take care of us :thumb_yello:

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 07:28 AM

What exactly is the point of a petition anyway? Who are we petitioning? The Pope?

We are petitioning ourselves actually, that is, the petitions are but means of information; it is intented to bring about awareness.
The primary goal is to make population, human reproduction in relation to earth and other species, a topic one can openly discuss - to lift the taboo.

As far as we are concerned(at 'Future of Mankind' ), the petition will be forwarded to the UN; to the following organizations:
- the World Population Awareness Organization
- The Earth Charter Initiative: http://www.earthcharter.org/
- Population Action International (PAI): http://www.populationaction.org/
- Population Coalition: http://www.populationpress.org/
- Population Connection: http://www.zpg.org/
-The Population Institute: http://www.populationinstitute.org/
- Growth Is Madness: http://growthmadness.org/2006/12/24/the-not-so-elusive-population-environment-link/
- Optimum Population Trust: http://www.optimumpopulation.org/...
to other major international organizations dealing with development and population; to as many as possible Ministries of Population, Family Welfare and Women and Children Emancipation of different countries; to Mister Nelson Mandela, Reverend Desmond Tutu; to senior politicians... and to all responsible citizens of our world, who make decisions directly influencing our daily life.
And yes, to the pope too - do you hear him recently about condoms on his way to Africa?!!!

Regards,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 07:38 AM

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 07:41 AM

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 07:45 AM

I know that it sounds like NWO but I think that it would be better for the planet if there were fewer people: smaller depletion of natural resources, more land for plants and wild animals, cleaner air and water, less pollution in general.

Yes, this is indeed the whole point: we do not care of the so-called NWO; we want to take our destiny and the future of this planet - Mother Earth and its beautiful and pricelessly important Flora and fauna, our comardes - in our own hands. In all responsibility.

Salome.

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 08:01 AM

Here you go RaKaR...add this guy as your spokesman ..

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=david+rockefeller&aq=0&oq=david+rock

He's been pushing this agenda for a very long time :mfr_omg:
Let's see now ...I've had three children....Selfish?

I'm still paying for them... guess I'd be rich if I had had only two....selfish? I fail to see the logic in that statement.How exactly does that make me selfish for having three children?
Listen...we are all valuable human beings...every one of us. The poor, the starving...the rich...the evil...the dark..the mentally disturbed...we all have a purpose...otherwise we would not have come here.
I don't believe you or anyone else has the right to say if we should be born or not be born....I'll leave that to my maker :thumb_yello:

Hi there,
Do not take it too personal - i myself, before becoming aware of the whole situation, have been dreaming of having a family large enough, so that we could form our own soccer(my favorite sport) team: 11 players.

This question is more related to our attitude towards procreation, than to the fellow human beings currently on Earth - and as such, rightly so, if you ask me.

We say, "please, think of other species and of Mother Earth, reproduce less; you are responsible for the little ones(who are NOT HERE YET) who would be brought in an over-crowded and in utter disbalance world."

It is called voluntary, world wide, democratic(for all, regardles of social position, wealth, backgrounds, culture, country, continent...), scientific birth
control.

Regards.

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 08:05 AM

RaKaR

03-31-2009, 08:12 AM

With all the problems taken care of....focus can be on becoming a galactic society....colonize another planet....the universe can sustain any size population!

When would this DREAM happen?

Allow me to repeat this again:
It is not much about the people who are on earth now, but about those we are irresponsibly adding - did you hear of the 'Octuplet Mum', for instance?!

It is all about rational and logical management.

There is overpopulation, specially in the specific context of the current mode of production - or better say, mere exploitation of this Planet and its resources - that is, this wild, aggressive Capitalism driven by greed alone.
If only the goods and other life sustaining commodities, the product we ourselves produce or gain directly from Earth were responsibly and honestly managed; if our aims in this existence were spiritually more elevated(instead of the sole accumulation of money and other material items), there would certainly be no question of overpopulation the way it is now.

As many here rightly pointed it out, Mother-Earth is able to and is willing to take care of her Children - and does still do so - but we are extremely abusing her generosity, for everyone wants still more and more and, as we all know, there are no limits to the 'accumulation fever' and greed has by definition no boundaries.

Besides, Humans are not the only inhabitants of this Planet. ONCE AGAIN.
This must be clear.

There are other Life Forms having the same rights to be and to develop; Life Forms which are as necessary and dear to Earth as we, Humans, are: Flora, Fauna.

We are building factories and other human production facilities on lands, which should normallybe reserved to agriculture, to the flora and fauna; we are destroying forests, polluting water and air...

Flora and Fauna are being incessantly persecuted by us.

Honey bees are disappearing in horrifying huge numbers and sorts(and we all know the great role they play for the balance of our eco-system, for our flowers, our patatoes, our wine...); the ice is dramatically melting (due in part to human irresponsible activities, like the tests of atomic and nuclear bombs underground and in the atmosphere!!!)...

We need to be reasonable and seek harmony with our world.
The only one we have got.

Have a nice day for now - i have to rush to work.

Thanks for your insights and looking forward... to more!:-)

Namaste.

truthseeker

03-31-2009, 08:24 AM

Hi Guys,

I Have not commented here for about 4 months, but am still following certain threads on this forum. This one does rather grab my interest as I have a great love of nature and the natural balances of ecology on this planet.

On the whole I agree with Rakar that there are simply too many physical human beings on this planet, though I do not feel a limit to procreation should be enforced. Education, Education, Education is the only way of getting the message across to the many peoples of this planet.

I feel many of the commentators here are missing the point. It may well be possible for 6, 7, 8 or even 9 billion people to live on our planet if the wealth and resources were spread more evenly. Indeed, with free energy available this would almost certainly be the case. However, I am less than convinced that the quality of life for individuals and groups concerned would be particularly high. Here I am referring to qualities of a spiritual, social and psychological nature rather than the physical comforts that we in the Western world today have as a result of having too much material wealth.

Also, as Rakar has already stated, human beings are not the only biological organisms that exist on this planet. If 7 to 9 billion were spread nice and evenly around the planet, what effect would that have on the rich variety of ecosystems on this planet? People would want to kill off any animals that competed with them for food, most notably many of the great predators and large herbivores on our planet, many of which are already rare or close to extinction. In this instance the planet would a least lose its rich variety of wildlife and diverse ecosystems. At worst whole ecosystems would breakdown.

The other alternative that seems to be being suggested here is to pack the 7 to 9 billion human beings into smaller areas. Australia was mentioned as an example, but I guess you could pick anywhere in the world. Yes we probably could do this, especially if free energy was made available to us. However, issues around the quality of life would become even more paramount in the areas concerned. How easy would it be for people to get away from the crowds and have a bit of peace and quiet in a wild place? Also, which ever areas you choose to concentrate the human population you will almost certainly destroy unique ecosystems and forms of wildlife.

It is all very well saying water the deserts and make them into green gardens and organic farms, but many species of plant and animal are uniquely adapted to the desert regions of our world. Do we have the right to bring such species to extinction just because we can not control our population? I think not. Australia has been suggested as an example of a large desert area that could be used in this manner. Australia has some of the most unique wildlife on our planet (much of which is already rare and endangered), do we really think that this is worth sacrificing for the sake of more and more human beings? Are we really that special as compared with all the other life forms on this planet? Again, I think not.

Also, what of the true native peoples of many of these desert areas, such as the Australian Aboriginal people and the Kalahari Bushmen. Their culture and way of life is already under threat. If we were to green and water the deserts for the sake of large numbers of people having a mediocre quality of life, such indigenous peoples would almost certainly be wiped out.

Of course if we were to go galactic, then overpopulation would cease to be a problem. However, until that happens it seems wise to at least begin to educate folk to have less children, especially in some of the so-called third world nations of our planet.

Finally, several commentators have referred to our right to be here as incarnate souls during this time of important transition. However, as I believe I am (and we all are) primarily a spiritual being, my physical incarnation here really is of secondary importance. I think we can overstate the importance of being here in physical form. As truly spiritual beings we could probably exist here (and probably do) in 10's of billions without having any physical impact on this beautiful collective physical being that we call Planet Earth.

Best Wishes

Truthseeker (Andrew)

Steve_G

03-31-2009, 11:02 AM

This is a very thought-provoking thread. Rakar, I think in a nutshell the problem I have with the approach you are advocating (TPB diabolism aside) is that it deals with symptoms rather than causes.

The solution you offer only perpetuates the status quo that has created the problem in the first place. It does nothing to address the imbalance of resources, education and standards of life that exists between the NWO and their like and the vast majority of this planet who are artifically kept in a state of poverty and ignorance through their machinations. It does not address the massive pollution and poisoning of the atmosphere and earth by the multinational corporations who largely own people like Hillary Clinton and the so-called scientists that continue to perpetuate the man-made global warming lie despite all evidence to the contrary. You would still have the power elite, Illuminati, NWO and their masters at the top living in unbelievable luxury and warring amongst themselves while everyone else scrabbles around fighting for survival and our home continues to be poisoned by their activities.

Until these root causes are dealt with any measures to counter population increase will fail. It's fine to talk about the spiritual growth of humanity but unrealistic to expect people who are locked into survival mode through no fault of their own to be worrying about what effects their actions will have past getting the next meal for their families. I'd say that AT LEAST 75% of the population falls into this category, and the figure is probably much higher.

Only by getting the resources spread properly and getting the population out of the survival-only mindset that extreme poverty and base living conditions can we have the global consciousness and spiritual maturity that we talk about. Once we have that he population will reach a stable level by NATURAL means, rather than being enforced by a super-rich elite. There would be no need to use free energy to irrigate the deserts (and thus endanger or destroy the other species that Truthseeker mentions) because there would be more than enough land suitable for farming to take care of all our needs, and the preservation of flaura and fauna would be built-in to the consciousness of humanity in general. I believe it's already there, but like so much else it has been suppressed by TPB for their own selfish gain.

Unless we deal with TPB any measures we can take will benefit them while being detrimental to the rest of the world. What you suggest is rather like taking a man who's been shot in the leg and trying to sew up the skin without getting the bullet out and repairing the artery first. And the guy with the gun is still standing there ready to shoot again whenever he pleases.

fossileyesed

03-31-2009, 11:19 AM

Good day all

This population control talk is right up there with abortion.Both topics make me sick to my stomace .No offence to you Rakar. Personally there is better messages worth spreading. When do souls become relevent to the conversation?

Good vid http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/hans_rosling_reveals_new_insights_on_poverty.html

His statistics seem sound [as can be,lol]

canada-one of the biggest land masses on earth-population 35 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distribution_of_wealth

I'm having a hard time seeing condoms solving the worlds problems,like feeding people and saving the flora and fauna of the world or stopping pollution. Probally make someone richer though.

Sharing,compassion,love,empathy hmmmmmm ,Is there a solution in those 4 words ?. I wonder.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8401760162162692745 This concept could be usefull:wub2:

Lets end population exploitation instead and see where that leads,maybe open up some borders on the earth and in our minds .:welcomeani:

6 billion people sounds more like an accounting nightmare than a social problem.
sorry for the rant,but makes sense to me

peace,love squared to the power of infinity to all....kent

ps Is the octuplet lady single[lol]

piers2210

03-31-2009, 11:53 AM

Hello all, this is a valid thread, regardless of your views on it, because it has done what all threads should do....extract thoughts and opinions. And hopefully good will come from it.

Whoever says the world ISN'T over populated obviously hasn't travelled beyond their own backyard much. Before you say the world ISN't overpopulated, travel a bit and have a look yourself!!!

That's not to say that the world can't support more people, everyday i'm amazed how the world does in fact support those that are here.

But see what you feel after you've travelled through the Indian Subcontinent, Africa, Asia, etc etc....its overcrowded, believe me!! And unhygienic, dangerous, people begging and living in terrible conditions...and the rest. Come back here after you've seen it and say what you feel about the "world population".

Is "overcrowded" the same as "over population"? Possibly not. Management of people and resources could solve the problem, but that involves the breakdown of borders, global government etc etc, all the things that people "worry" about. You can't have it both ways.

Why do people want to come to australia, certain parts of europe, north america from less "desirable" places?? Because living where they are is unpleasant. Why is it unpleasant? because the places are overcrowded, corrupt, poor, polluted, dangerous, mismanaged etc etc....i could tell you so much more, because i have travelled to these places, but it would take all night.

Final thought: lets try and at least be realistic about earth's current population...change must come, living day to day for most of the world is seriously unpleasant.

P.

Anthony4acre

03-31-2009, 04:39 PM

Oh well.
So called global warming & Nibiru will take care of the population.
Cheers,
Anthony.

piers2210

03-31-2009, 04:58 PM

Anthony mate.....you're on the right lines.....no need for mass exterminations....nature ALWAYS soves the problems...exactly on time.

Before nature comes in and does its stuff though, be prepared for the coming food distribution shortage. This may arrive sooner....

Atb, Piers

Wormhole

03-31-2009, 08:32 PM

I would kindly suggest that folks who want a big family consider adoption as an option. There are a great many kids on this planet who could thrive in a loving environment... As to taking your genes out of the soup; one child per couple is negative population growth, two is zero population growth (ie. you are just replacing the parents) any more is excessive. Adopt, adopt, adopt!!!

Education is the root to a healthy society. However, cultural traditions are nearly impossible to challenge. People are taught the dogma that encourages large families, without respect to environmental sustainability. Sad but true.

The earth will be here for a long time, we will not. I agree that the planet will adjust itself in order to maintain the balance. These changes are never pretty but they are natural... Excessive biological growth always leads to a mass die off. It is nature's way.

Adopt. Consider the true gift of life... taking care of what already needs to be taken care of: a child that is here NOW waiting for a parent.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

Anchor

03-31-2009, 10:02 PM

Many parents cant even take care of one or two childeren properly.

It makes me sad when I see children being ingored by thier own parents because they are to busy chatting on thier mobile phones; and then yelling sharply at thier own children to be quiet!

Sometimes I catch the eyes of those children and message them some encouragement and assurance. A little reminder that this is how they chose thier entry vector into this world, not to worry etc, that they are loved by many more people than thier immediate family and that everything is going to work out as planned.

Remember - those souls incarnating recently had a much more accurate view of the shape of things and possibilities open to their chosen timelines than us older ones did when we dived in to this density for an incarnation.

I think that overpopulation is not something we need to worry about right now - one of the least of our worries in fact. I am sorry to say that I think that the solution to that problem is going to be harsh and is, at this point, largely out of our hands.

The parents to stupid to look after thier children properly will probably also be too stupid to do anything to ameliorate the coming food shortages. They may suffer the ultimate punishment of seeing their own children starve.

Me I saw all this coming a long time ago, and one of my mission parameters was to have no children at all.

A..

Wormhole

03-31-2009, 10:12 PM

Anchor,
I have also "seen it coming" and also decided not to have any children. As it is, I personally feel it would be the most selfish and irresponsible act I could perform as a woman, to bring a child into an uncertain future. I also agree that many people are unfit to parent. This crosses all social and economic lines. Sad but true.

Peace of Mind,
Worm

I just wanted to add: When I am asked by my other lady friends about my opinion on this, they are generally shocked and think I have a problem. My opinion is generally met with distain and anger. I am turning 40 soon, my biological clock is a whisper in comparison to the melting glaciers and lack of food and love that is so apparent to me. I think that I have made the right choice for me, one that I can live with. I chose to not have children because I care about the future; not because I do not have the instinct to nurture.

J_rod7

03-31-2009, 11:54 PM

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Warmest Greetings to All in Peace,

To toss in a nickels worth of thought here on the issue of the Global Over-Population.

Our governments are lying to us (surprise - surprise). There are CURRENTLY MORE than 6.5-Billion Human Beings on Earth. The true number is greater then 7.6-Billion, and rapidly approaching 8-Billion.

The "Third-World" Humans live in total squalor.
Poverty, putting increased pressure on the developed nations due to the influx of poor migrants.
Diseases, which are becoming a danger to the rest of the world in outbreaks as deadly plagues.
Lack of sufficient clean water, shortages of food, leading to mass malnourishment and starvation.
Crimes of rape, murder, and genocide are rising unchecked, and spread to their neighbors.
Education facilities are inadequate for large populations, except for the smaller "classes of elites."
The looming possibility of some horrendous wars that will bring disaster to all of us on Earth.
[this is the Short List]

Experiments done with small mammals, show that when they become greatly overcrowded in limited living space, they will turn to cannibalism. The similar effect may be observed in nature, where the populations of species will "cull their own" and others. I think jamming the population of Earth into one small area, like Texas or Australia, would have a similar effect in the Human population. Just look at some of the large cities now on Earth as an example. Cities like Mexico City, Los Angeles, Calcutta, Mumbai, New York City, Miami, Chicago, etc, etc, etc. Multiply these cities of millions into the Billions - disaster, intolerable living conditions for the majority.

The organization, FIGU, is NOT a UFO study group., and it is definitely NOT any agenda of the NWO.
FIGU is, instead, a group to study the Spiritual Teachings by which all Human Beings on Earth may learn the Laws of Creation. The Laws of Creation include and supersede all the known laws of Science, and are above all "laws" of mankind ( most of which are corrupt ).

We do study this in order to advance our own personal Spiritual Evolution. The knowledge gained in this study, along with living by the precepts, carries forward from this life into all our following reincarnations, adds to our Wisdom, aids us each to become logical in our thinking, brings to all - the knowledge of Creation, our Spirit, and the Spirit that is within every Human Being on Earth and throughout the Universe.

The Crusade against Over-Population is an adjunct effort to make our Earth a better place to live for all beings on the planet, including Human Beings and all Flora and Fauna, and the Earth itself (her name is Gaia). We only ask that every other Human Being become aware of the dangers we have imposed on ourselves. We, a small group within FIGU, are now engaged in forwarding the text of the petition to all governments, Ambassadors, Kings, Emperors, Leaders, and United Nations Assembly members. This goes to every Nation on Earth. We answer the call of the True Prophet, Billy Meier.

Please join with us in making this most important initiative known to all the people. Thank you.

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition

http://www.theyfly.com/On_Overpopulation.html

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Wormhole

04-01-2009, 01:38 AM

Billy Meier a prophet? Hmmm. That's a new one on me.

As to taking away free choice and reproductive rights... I hope that through non-violent education people will challenge themselves to do what is right for the planet. That is all I can personally condone consciously at this time.

Thank you for sharing J rod. I think that putting out a wake up call will do more good then harm. Letting people know how serious the situation is will help promote change. Take care that the human rights issue (reproductive rights) does not clog the response your group may be looking for. Good Luck.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

Luminari

04-01-2009, 02:13 AM

*******
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The organization, FIGU, is NOT a UFO study group.
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FIGU, a german acronym that stands for 'Free Community of Interests for the Border and Spiritual Sciences and Ufological Studies'

J_rod7

04-01-2009, 03:37 AM

*******
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Thank you Luminari. :original:

We now place the emphasis on Spiritual Sciences.

The Ufological studies is to spark the interests of the otherwise bored, the semi-apathetic,
and the general populace looking for some good photos of the 'shiny UFOs.'

In Peace

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Luminari

04-01-2009, 07:02 AM

Why are all you FIGU guys so harshly critical against everyone.

Ive read pretty much everything (K. Korffs 'krap' not included) available on the Meier Contacts in the english language, have all the audio and video stuff too. Studied for years.. LOVE it, I almost feel like Billy is my grandfather.

Take a more compassionate approach towards other people, especially UFO truth seekers. Instead of a condescending we are the masters-of-the-universe and everyone else is wrong line.
I know the Plejaren themselves come across as extremely judgmental in the Contact Notes. Im sure they would find a ton of things 'wrong' with me.. I love them regardless. I am a 3D man on my own spiritual evolution, I have no claim to perfection, only a constant striving towards improvement on my path back to Intelligent Infinity.

You know EXACTLY what I meant about FIGU being a UFO study group in the eyes of governmental institutions etc, so don't 'beat around the bush' with me.

I know the Earth needs to rid itself of the majority of its people who are killing the eco-system and also upsetting the vibrational harmony of the energy grid which is why our lifespans have dropped from 700-900 years down to what they are now.

I felt the petition was poorly worded and naive.

Luminari

04-01-2009, 07:12 AM

FIGU/They Fly

Stop asking for money and start getting some LONG OVERDUE books out to the public!

This isnt a business, this is a matter of spirituality like you said.

If you generously give with no expectation of receiving money in return..
you will find people will will open their hearts and their wallets and overwhelm you with support.

I dont think Mr Horn the entrepreneur (bless his good deeds) understands this concept. I have bought things off him on several ocassions which were high in price and low in quality. He has flat out told me that "people dont value things that are given to them". Which is his opinion not mine.

Many of the most spiritually valuable things I have learnt I obtained for free from the internet, that certain doesnt mean I don't appreciate them dearly.

Humble Janitor

04-01-2009, 08:19 AM

Again, population control is a hoax and there are other solutions out there.

J_rod7

04-01-2009, 08:25 AM

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Luminari: [ "Why are all you FIGU guys so harshly critical against everyone." ]. Well, sir, who is criticizing you so harshly here? "All you FIGU guys" seems to be quite judgmental, don't you think?

I have not been critical of your expressed opinions. I do take a little offense with such condemnation of a group of people which I have learned to love and respect.

Where EVER does this come from.?... [ "we are the masters-of-the-universe and everyone else is wrong line." ].? That is certainly NOT any expression I've run across in any of the material or teachings of FIGU. I barely master myself to get out of bed every day. I am no ones master but only over my own life. I sincerely hope you can say the same for yourself.

Real Truth often sounds harsh to those living behind lies and deceptions. "Diplomacy" itself is a means to hide Truth behind "sweet words" and gratuitous praises.

Real Truth is a call to awaken to your full potential as a Human Being. Real Truth is meant to burn away falseness. Some fires do get very hot.

Peace

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Wormhole

04-01-2009, 08:30 AM

I agree with HJ. Would you like to add some positive ideas as to what those solutions may be? Please, do not include castration as one of them :shocked:.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

Luminari

04-01-2009, 08:35 AM

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Well, sir, who is criticizing you so harshly here? "All you FIGU guys" seems to be quite judgmental, don't you think?

I have not been critical of your expressed opinions. I do take a little offense with such condemnation of a group of people which I have learned to love and respect.

***

Its not the first time Ive heard someone from FIGU arrogantly mocking people interested in 'the shiny UFOs' because you are sooo spiritual... ok sorry to generalise J Rod, Im sure you and the other FIGUs are nice people with good intentions. I retract my generalising statement. Peace be with you.

Humble Janitor - "population control is a hoax and there are other solution out there."
I think you are out of your depth with that vague statment with nothing to back it up. Even if you came up with 10 solutions your premise is still fatal for all life on the planet, population control is essential. Surely you see this. We dont have anywhere else to go! Even if we could colonise other systems we would not be allowed to by the Watchers and Guardians until we massively evolved spiritually and %100 disarmed. Our whole western way of life is a death-cult virus of blind selfishness. That is NOT acceptible to the Star Nations.

"In less than a tenth of a percent of the total history of humanity, we’ve experienced over 90 percent
of the total growth of the human population. There’s obviously a collision coming between our growing population, with its increasing consumption of dwindling supplies, and our ability to sustain that population." - Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight

Wormhole

04-01-2009, 08:55 AM

Steve_G

04-01-2009, 10:10 AM

Does anyone have any figures on WHERE the population explosion is happening?

The UK's population is rising due to largely unchecked immigration (a big thank-you to the EU for that one as it dilutes any sense of national identity and compliments the divide-and-rule tactics it uses) and not through lots of huge families, despite what certain newspapers would have us believe. I also think a contributary factor is that people are living longer, so rather than the birth rate climbing it's the death rate slowing.

Billy Meier: I think he released "The Prophecies of Henoch," a dire litany of horror and fear that makes Revelations look like a kids book. I didn't know he was now considered "the True Prophet" though- are we witnessing the birth of a new guilt-and-fear based religion? Cos that's just what the world needs now, more of the same **** that keeps people locked in a fear-based survival mode.

Luminari

04-01-2009, 01:56 PM

Does anyone have any figures on WHERE the population explosion is happening?

INDIA!!! and China to a slightly lesser degree, this short clip has some specific statistics for you in that regard, please view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

Steve_G

04-01-2009, 02:30 PM

INDIA!!! and China to a slightly lesser degree, this short clip has some specific statistics for you in that regard, please view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

Thanks Luminari, an nteresting if rather random presentation of stats :original:

The relevant ones are that every 5 minutes:

67 babies are born in the USA

274 were born in China

395 were born in India

So by multiplying those numbers by 525,600 to make it per year we get:

35,215,200 in the USA

144,014,400 in China, and

207,612,000 in India

Are there really 35 million babies born in America in a year?

Luminari

04-01-2009, 03:02 PM

If you include all the other countries in the world thats getting up to half a Billion people per year and increasing exponentially.:shocked:

Think of the Panda's, Dolphin's, Tiger's.. and every other beautiful species being driven to extinction by the humans.

Think of the genocide of our brothers the TREES.

Steve_G

04-01-2009, 03:25 PM

The population growth of the USA is 0.833% per year according to this:

http://flagcounter.com/factbook/us

From their population figures for 2008 (303,824,640 (July 2008 est.)) that means growth to 306,507,411 by July 2009. 35 million births but a population increase of only 3 million? Even taking the death rate into account those numbers do not add up. I suggest that the data presented by that video is at best very misleading, just like most factoid statistics.

"There are lies, damned lies and statistics."

However, I'm not arguing that the problem doesn't exist, just that the solutions proposed will perpetuate the status quo that created them in the first place. THEY DO NOT ADDRESS THE CAUSES OF THE PROBLEM! Until those causes are addressed we haven't a hope of sorting this problem out in a long-term, meaningful way.

RaKaR

04-01-2009, 06:15 PM

Greetings to you all, out there, and thanks for your contribution.

In the light of the vigorous and rather wide(:-)) discussion, which meanwhile took place , i shall take the liberty to refer here to a statement we made at another thread dealing with the issue of population, development and sustainability, for it sums up our perspective and stance on human matters of this kind.

First of all, we can only speculate on the motivations of the so-called TPTB - and frankly it is the very last of my concerns, if you ask me!
What is certain though, is that we - mankind - are on a painfully wrong track.

Secondly, there is no place for coercion in our approach of overpopulation and in the manifesting paradigma in general.
All shall indeed happen from within - outer 'guidance' is basically incompatible with spiritual awareness and the upcoming shift of/in consciousness many here seem to be anticipating.
Free will and choice. No system.
"Be aware of your real essence and you won't need a system.", i would say.

Systems come and go; spiritual awareness and creational laws are forever.
Who would apply and enforce the compliance to these measures; who would control all this? - some ask.
Well, our consciousness, our spirituality should provide us with the necessary tool: self responsibility would be the 'control', if you wish.

In the context of relation Humans-Environment, Luminari made a specific mention above; you has a thought for te dolphins.
Allow me to tell you of a situation i closely witnessed, which was the turning point for me in this respect.
Last summer, while i was in Iceland, two ice-bears swam the whole way to the west coast(fjords) of that country, hungry and in despair, for there is no more ice they could live on.
People used guns to kill them!

Now then.
Awareness and Birth Control.

As far as we are concerned, nothing will happen to the currently existing(and growing by the second. Alas!) 7 billion people of Earth.
They would live their life as they think fit - hopefully with a sharper sense of responsibility and some ray of wisdom - and the laws of nature would apply to bring about a natural stabilization of Earth population.

In other words, nothing, absolutely nothing, which is or is about to be, would be denied to people - those would-be children we would put on 'standby' till a better time, do not yet exist. They are but virtual.
In the question of population, people are only asked to use their common sense, the very same way people use their common sense to manage and run their private and public life, their work, studies, business, friendship, family, money, farms...

Life here - in all its appearances and almost endless ways of being - is holy, in the sense of pricelessly precious. Mister Meier has always clearly and strongly underlined this point.

Nature would bring about balance, rather harshly - you pointed out.
It might indeed be so.
"Since the earth cannot support so many people living on our planet, people will die from honger. In short: our numbers will decrease because of natural selection.", was also the final argument of a good friend against our proposal, recently in a discussion.

We however think, that it is still possible to avoid that scenario; there is another solution, a rational, humane and ethical solution: a world wide rigorous birth control.
We could indeed avoid wars for resources(food, water, energy...); death of millions from hunger and preserve human dignity, if we agree to apply such a birth control.

Another fundamental thing must also be clear.

'Third world countries' are not the ONLY ones responsible: WE ARE ALL RESPONSIBLE.

We do not single out individuals, countries, nations or races; we address ourselves, our own self; we address Mankind as a whole, as one consciousness.

The birth control we propose is also a worldwide measure; it MUST be equally applied and enforced in all continents, all countries, all nations, all social classes...it is valid for all and everyone: for the richest nations as well as for the poorest nations; for the richest individuals as well as the poorest; for the kings, queens, presidents, ministers judges... as well as for the poorest farmers, street performers, carpenters, village teachers, hunters, sewage workers...

We shall be mindful that everything is connected and that wisdom itself points to overpopulation as the current mother of all evil.

Overpopulation is an all-human problem. We shall overcome it together.

Regards.

Steve_G

04-01-2009, 10:13 PM

First of all, we can only speculate on the motivations of the so-called TPTB - and frankly it is the very last of my concerns, if you ask me!

And therein lies the problem. You refuse to address the cause of the problem and instead only focus on a single symptom.

You should be concerned because they have the power, resources and technology to resolve this issue. You should be concerned because their actions and policies have led to the population explosion. Put simply, developed countries have stable populations. Developing countries don't, and the reason the developing countries aren't developed already is because their advancement (and the advancement of humanity in general) has been deliberately sabotaged and supressed by TPTB for their own selfish gain.

You are actually petitioning (ie begging) the PTB! The very same people you claim you're not concerned about!

You are pleading with them to change the policies and strategies they have developed deliberately over a very, very long period of time for the express purpose of putting them in power and keeping them there! How can you NOT be concerned with their motivations? It blows my mind!

By refusing to address the cause of the problems you only ensure their continuation.

Humble Janitor

04-02-2009, 01:41 AM

Collision indeed. However, forcing people to comply to reproductive restrictions is not the answer either. They wont.

People need to be educated to want to have less children in order to secure each child's future. With that in mind, it is rather a depressing time... Most dogmatic religions not only advocate having children to secure some type of twisted religious prosperity, but they also refuse to condone birth control. It is insanity and clearly not in anyones best interest.

And i'm not into this "bring on the end of the world" bs. Yet, I try to stay positive...

Peace of Mind,
Worm
:wall:

I wouldn't allow us to populate outside this planet either. We are expanding like a virus.

I think you just contradicted yourself with the "We are expanding like a virus" comment.

Regardless, population control is a tool of TPTB/NWO and they will bust their asses off to make sure that people consider this "option" when they start crying about the unwashed masses/useless eaters.

Without sounding too harsh, if you buy into it, you're buying into their propaganda and lies.

J_rod7

04-02-2009, 01:48 AM

*******
***
*

Hello Steve_G,

Thank you for your expressed viewpoint.

IMO, you have the "cart-before-the-horse" in your stated...: [ "And therein lies the problem. You refuse to address the cause of the problem and instead only focus on a single symptom." ] ---

Over-Population is not the symptom. Over-Population IS THE CAUSE of all sequential problems.!

The PTB/NWO are disintegrating in their influence, now split into five factions at each others' throats. David Wilcock made this very observation posted at his website. Please see the full article, Major Progress on Divine Cosmos Reconstruction!, found here...:

http://divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=462&Itemid=70

Further, as you express: [ "By refusing to address the cause of the problems you only ensure their continuation." ] --- Wrong for the same reason, and...:

The CAUSE of the problem IS being addressed in the document: "TO Earth Humans.doc", now being promulgated in a massive effort. This document file is 60Kb, too large to upload here.

This Document is derived from the petition, edited and formatted, found here...:
http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition

Copies of this document are now being forwarded in groups, FAXed and Snail-mailed, to every Nation on Earth (some 198, at last count).

First on this list, are every Ambassador from the USA to every Nation, and their bosses = President Obama, Vice-President Biden, and Secretary-of-State Clinton.

This will be followed-up with translated versions of this document to the leaders, Kings, Emperors, Dictators, Presidents, Prime-Ministers &c of every Nation.

Then to the representatives from every Nation to the United Nations General Assembly.

Then to every organization on Earth engaged in any Humanitarian works.

Then to every major newspaper in every Nation to reach to the "common People."

Translated versions are already going forth in Swahili, (to be followed in French) and English among the people in the lands of Africa.

Translations are going forward in German, Russian, Nederlands, Chezc, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Italian, Farsi, Arabic, Spanish, and Portuguese.

All this for starters, until every Human Being on Earth becomes aware of the danger of Over-Population, and the proposed solutions to include birth-stops and birth-controls.

Obviously, this will be a long process, which is already underway, and will not happen overnight. THIS is where we are asking for the assistance from all who will from these Forums at Avalon. The more merry in this work, the merrier the party becomes.

Those among us engaged in this initiative, are working in the fertile field of Humanity planting the seeds of awareness. Some will fall where they will not grow, this is to be expected in any planting of ideas. Some will take root and blossom into a philosophy, a way of life, to spread into the world. If you, or anyone here, would like a copy of the "TO Earth Humans.doc" I can send you this in an attachment in an E-mail.

Those which follow in our footsteps, our children, our grandchildren, on into seven and more generations, will then pick up this torch in turn, to continue to bring the Light of Truth and awareness forward.

Peace be on Earth, and Among All Beings

*
***
*******

RaKaR

04-02-2009, 06:58 AM

Hello there!

Steve_G:
"And therein lies the problem. You refuse to address the cause of the problem and instead only focus on a single symptom."

There are many problems and challenges out there; one can not effectively tackle them simultaneously - one has to begin somewhere, each way.
We, in this case, chose to try to contribute into a more responsible and balanced - with regards to Earth as an interconnected, interdependent whole - human ways of reproduction, for we view overpopulation as the CAUSE and the PROBLEM.
In this specific perspective, overpopulation is not a symptom; it is the very problem - i agree with contributor and good friend J_rod7.

"You should be concerned because they have the power, resources and technology to resolve this issue. You should be concerned because their actions and policies have led to the population explosion. Put simply, developed countries have stable populations. "

Good.
I could ask you, who and what are/is TPTB - it is such a vague concept; one could put ANYONE one disagrees with in this 'club', it seems! - but this would only be a diversion from the topic at hand.

Now, supposed i am 'concerned about the TPTB, because they have the power, resources and technology to resolve this issue.'
What would i achieve by that?
Which DIFFERENCE it would make?
What could i do against that? - organize a revolution, whereby precisely innocent fellow Humans would be killed? What would make me different from those you called TPTB, then?
They 'have the power, resources and technology to resolve this issue.' Maybe.
If so, why then not call for a release of those things and their application for the good of Mankind - in another organized movement, major petition(to bring about awareness of the issue among 'ordinary'fellow Humans), eventually ACTIVELY supporting the initiative of Dr. Greer, for instance?

And again, friend, we - as spiritual beings - are essentially sovereign; we should stop ALWAYS pointing the finger to others.
We have to be self responsible.
The accent lays here, in our approach, more on what WE OURSELVES can do to help ourselves and to ultimately save our planet - instead of what OTHERS MIGHT BE concealing or trying to hide from us.

"Put simply, developed countries have stable populations."

No point, provided one could add here 'relatively'.
BUT, developed countries are the biggest 'contributors' to the sorrow of Mother Earth - and they are aggressively exporting that very way of life to the rest of the world.

"Developing countries don't, and the reason the developing countries aren't developed already is because their advancement (and the advancement of humanity in general) has been deliberately sabotaged and supressed by TPTB for their own selfish gain."

Here i have to say, i do not know for sure; and any way, why not turn the tide the way we REALLY can?
Why not take our destiny in our own hands in this regard - reproduction and care for Mother Earth and the rest of our fellow inhabitants of Earth?

"You are actually petitioning (ie begging) the PTB! The very same people you claim you're not concerned about!

You are pleading with them to change the policies and strategies they have developed deliberately over a very, very long period of time for the express purpose of putting them in power and keeping them there! How can you NOT be concerned with their motivations? It blows my mind!"

No, sir!
We are not begging them; we are trying to gather enough support of our fellow Humans( through information and hopefully active awareness: petition) to have the issue of population, human reproduction and the sustainability and hence harmony on planet Earth, openly discussed and addressed in a Human, ethical and responsible way - an attempt to reverse those very' policies and strategies they have developed deliberately over a very, very long period of time for the express purpose of putting them in power and keeping them there!', if you wish.

Nice day to all,

RaKaR.

Steve_G

04-02-2009, 10:46 AM

PETITION:

1. A solemn SUPPLICATION or request to a SUPERIOR AUTHORITY; an ENTREATY.
2. A formal written document REQUESTING a right or benefit from a person or GROUP in AUTHORITY.

You ARE begging.

I'm sorry J Rod7 and Rakar but I believe you are being incredibly niave. If you haven't found out who the PTB are yet I suggest you do some research on how the world REALLY works:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7886780711843120756

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4799447112501062338&q=big+brother&ei=vreRSJ33H5DErwK6y4jICA&hl=en

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3719259008768610598&q=loose+change+final+cut&total=396&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-594683847743189197&hl=en

They should get you started.

If so, why then not call for a release of those things and their application for the good of Mankind - in another organized movement, major petition(to bring about awareness of the issue among 'ordinary'fellow Humans), eventually ACTIVELY supporting the initiative of Dr. Greer, for instance?

So why aren't they? The problems are here now, not at some unspecified point in the future. Dr. Greer and the Orion Project aren't trying to INVENT anything, they are trying to catch up with the technology thats been supressed for at least 80 years by the PTB. Nikolai Tesla came up with forms of free energy in the 1930s but they were supressed because TPB can't make money on free energy.

TPB are NOT the Presidents and Prime Ministers of this world. They do what they are told to do, and if any of them try to deviate or actually work for the benefit of mankind instead of their masters they had better keep a close eye on the grassy knoll.

And again, friend, we - as spiritual beings - are essentially sovereign; we should stop ALWAYS pointing the finger to others.
We have to be self responsible.
The accent lays here, in our approach, more on what WE OURSELVES can do to help ourselves and to ultimately save our planet - instead of what OTHERS MIGHT BE concealing or trying to hide from us.

So what are you saying, that you are responsible for lots of people having babies? That you are responsible for their substandard living conditions and lack of education? Did you take actions to make sure those conditions exist? Have you set yourself up as a religious leader and decried contraception as a sin, condemning those followers to keep having babies while simultaneously dying a slow death from AIDS? Have you manipulated and financed the myriad wars in Africa which serve to keep the countries divided while your multinational companies go in and plunder the natural resources? Have you put the developing nations into a cycle of debt they can never escape from and lined your own pockets with the interest payments while the people survive any way they can?

I somehow doubt it. You talk about being self-responsible and you're right- here in the west we have that luxury because our standard of living allows it. Try telling that to the people who's only concern is where their next meal is coming from, who have to work for a pittance seven days a week to have a hope of feeding their families. You think they have the time or energy to worry about anything else?

Over population IS a symptom.

BUT, developed countries are the biggest 'contributors' to the sorrow of Mother Earth - and they are aggressively exporting that very way of life to the rest of the world.

"Developed countries" such as the USA and UK? The USA is a CORPORATION! The UK is a CORPORATION! Corporations exist TO MAKE AS BIG A PROFIT AS POSSIBLE! All other concerns are secondary, including the standard of life of the human race.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4024663011008894776&ei=4ZLUSZWcF8W2-Abp9dynBw&q=lawful+rebellion

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6019992706449012651

Until you wake up from the illusion that the world is they way you've been taught it is you don't stand a chance, no matter how noble or well-meaning your intentions are.

You might also want to bear in mind that population reduction is a stated aim of TPB. It's come out, as has been mentioned by others in this thread, in documents such as the Iron Mountain Report.

Problem-Reaction-Solution. They CREATE the problem (population "explosion"), wait for the reaction (your petition, among other things) and then THEY offer the solution THEY wanted in the first place (population reduction by further totalitarian control, among other things.)

Also bear in mind that your solution does NOTHING to improve the quality of life for people in those developing countries, but it does ensure the continuation of the status quo that created the problem in the first place. TPB stay in their lofty positions while the majority of humanity remain unconscious slaves.

*************************
(Edit)

And right on que, another "solution" that fits the same criteria: GM food, the single biggest threat to the food supply the human race has ever faced. But that's ok, because the profits are ENORMOUS.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12744

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5266884912495233634&ei=EJvUSc-DDIXP-AbEiLzFBw&q=codex+alimentarius

BROOK

04-02-2009, 03:00 PM

Wow Steve....:thumb_yello: Could not have said it better

Surial

04-02-2009, 03:55 PM

The solution is to build more condominiums or use more condoms. Or we can master bation or use virtual reality sex machines.

Either way we need to build those food replicators ASAP.

Or we can find another planet, like Mars and begin terraforming. But first we need to ask the annunaki if we can live there. Maybe they will restructure our DNA like theirs to where we can harness our sexual energy to live thousands of years.

Dantheman62

04-02-2009, 04:12 PM

LOL, good one Surial,
Kathleen I was one who mentioned that all people could live in the country of Australia with 1/3 acre each. I wasn't advocating it, it was merely an example to show how much room we really have here on earth, which is plenty! So yes population is not the problem here at all.

piers2210

04-02-2009, 05:58 PM

Hey Dan, I guess you don't live near lots of people.....but anyone who lives in overcrowded cities will say sooner or later that THER'S TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE!!! hehehe. Maybe we can ship half of every city off to those areas where people feel free and have space....the watch the reaction...

In the Uk we are an island with a porous border (it seems...eh? shurely shome mishtake) and a new city of immigrants arrives every year, registered or unregistered....

Dantheman62

04-02-2009, 07:07 PM

You know something, you're right!, I didn't read your post correctly. Ah there I go again, blind in one eye and can't see out of the other!, LOL

Oh and piers, you're right, I'm no city boy!, LOL, But on the other hand my names not bubba either, LOL

burgundia

04-02-2009, 08:47 PM

piers2210

04-03-2009, 12:47 AM

Hey guys, just to lighten this up a bit, whats the best movie you've seen on over population problems??

I loved "Soylent Green"......STILL ahead of its time 40 years on....

Bet NO ONE can tell me a better movie about the horrors of over population!!

I did love "Logan's Run" though, where everyone over the age of 30 is exterminated to keep the population under control...

And of course, talking of "control", body and mind, "Gattaca" and the recent film "Equilibrium", which are films based on control of the population and the role of free will are outstanding.

I guess I'm a city boy at heart.

Anchor

04-03-2009, 04:03 AM

Population increase is getting very close to the optimal range of energy to cause a shift in consciousness. That shift in consciousness will change politics, money, energy.

Which would explain why anti-evolutionary forces would want the population artificially reduced instead of naturally - very interesting.

{Note: this is a hypothetical abstraction, not what I actually think - see later post}

RaKaR

04-03-2009, 05:37 AM

Greetings, fellow companions,

Steve_G,
To my suggestion:
"If so, why then not call for a release of those things and their application for the good of Mankind - in another organized movement, major petition(to bring about awareness of the issue among 'ordinary'fellow Humans), eventually ACTIVELY supporting the initiative of Dr. Greer, for instance?"

You replied:
"So why aren't they? The problems are here now, not at some unspecified point in the future. Dr. Greer and the Orion Project aren't trying to INVENT anything, they are trying to catch up with the technology thats been supressed for at least 80 years by the PTB. Nikolai Tesla came up with forms of free energy in the 1930s but they were supressed because TPB can't make money on free energy."

And that is precisely the problem: "why THEY this? Why THEY that? What are THEIR plans..." THEY!THEY!THEY!

What about US!!

What do we want? What can we achieve? Which way to go? How?

In this sentence:
"If so, why then not call for a release of those things and their application for the good of Mankind - in another organized movement, major petition(to bring about awareness of the issue among 'ordinary'fellow Humans), eventually ACTIVELY supporting the initiative of Dr. Greer, for instance?",
I ADDRESSED YOU, STEVE_G, you and all other good willing fellow ordinary Humans!

So again, WHY don't you - you, STEVE_G and others here - call for a release of those things and their application for the good of Mankind - in another organized movement, a major petition(to bring about awareness of the issue among 'ordinary'fellow Humans), and by eventually ACTIVELY supporting the initiative of Dr. Greer, for instance?"

Instead of complaning about those PTB, let's pave our own path, write our own history, determine our own future; let's take Positive Action.

You seem to attribute to those PTB some quasi magical, mythical powers.
But, i tell you, Friend, nothing can and will never restrict, empede, control, jail or kill FREE WILL.

And even if we suppose that those PTB are that powerful, there is nevertheless NOTHING they could do against our free choice, the expression of our free will with regard to procreation - no one can FORCE US to have children, if we decide not to have one!

IF there is one thing a Human has complete control upon, that is THE OWN BODY and what one decides to make with it.

I became aware of the state of human population and its consequences on the balance of this planet as a whole, begin October 2008 - and, yes, member BROOK, i am committed to this cause and i run my own thread(not a few, as you suggested above) at Avalon, dedicated to promoting open discussion and awareness in this question: 'Mankind & Earth: a Necessary Ingredient for a Responsible Love Story'

Listen now; i am 39 and i have freely, consciously and in/with all personal responsibility and conviction decided to not bring a child into this world for at least seven years.

CHALLENGE: bring the PTB on!

Namaste.

PS: petition.
It is rather a matter of intention, than of a sole literal definition; Steve_G.
Our petition is intended as a means of information leading to debat and, hopefully, to wider awareness and action.

RaKaR

04-03-2009, 05:49 AM

Which would explain why anti-evolutionary forces would want the population artificially reduced instead of naturally - very interesting.

Goosh, Anchor, why twist things in such a way??!!

It is CLEARLY a case of CHALLENGE, a challenge which should bring up together as one Humanity, one consciousness.

Won't it be logical to think and conclude from the testimony of Mellen-Thomas Benedict( courtesy of Kathleen), that we, Humans, will say also here, “we do not need this any more.” - what we are saying to toxic waste, nuclear missiles - to population explosion and, as Mankind, be up to this challenge in a rational, ethical and humane manner?

Regards.

Anchor

04-03-2009, 06:34 AM

Ok, sorry, I dont necessarily think that the population has to reach a majic number for this to happen - more a aggregate degree of evolution.

I was merely thinking about the words in Kathleens post and taking them to a dumb conclusion. I should have been clearer.

A..

Humble Janitor

04-03-2009, 08:07 AM

Want to end population explosion?

Ban religion.

The words of the Pope are just as dangerous as anything, especially when he continues to advocate against birth control.

burgundia

04-03-2009, 12:01 PM

Want to end population explosion?

Ban religion.

The words of the Pope are just as dangerous as anything, especially when he continues to advocate against birth control.

that's a great idea!!!:thumb_yello:

Steve_G

04-03-2009, 01:06 PM

And that is precisely the problem: "why THEY this? Why THEY that? What are THEIR plans..." THEY!THEY!THEY!

Because THEY still run the show, are the cause of the problem you are so focused on, and have the solutions to it that would benefit ALL mankind, ALL animal life and ALL plant life.

But, i tell you, Friend, nothing can and will never restrict, empede, control, jail or kill FREE WILL.

There are MILLIONS on the verge of starvation who might beg to differ. There are MILLIONS of unemployed who would too. There are MILLIONS dying from preventable diseases who would beg to differ. And so on.

IF there is one thing a Human has complete control upon, that is THE OWN BODY

Codex Alimentarius. Fluoride in the water supply. Industrial chemicals in food. All food being irradiated. The classification of vitamins and minerals as POISONS. And very soon growing your own food organically will be illegal.

I could go on but I don't see the point as you steadfastly refuse to address any of the points I'm making. You seem to believe that the TPB are irrelevant, can simply be ignored, and that your good intentions will carry the day.

Over a million people took to the streets of London to try to prevent the illegal invasion of Iraq. There was lots of debate, lots of talking, and public opinion couldn't have been any clearer. What happened? TPB armies invaded Iraq. Why? They don't give a **** what we think because they don't have to. All they care about is their own power and profits.

We have numerous charity events around the world such as Live Aid, Live 8, Comic Relief, Children in Need, in an effort to combat poverty and illness and substandard living conditions all around the world, every year. What happens? Nothing- at best 30% of the money raised gets to where it's going and the rest disappears into various PTB pockets. And poverty, illness and living conditions get worse by the year. Why? They don't give a **** what we think because they don't have to. All they care about is their own power and profits.

Organised Religions, most visibly the Catholic religion, denounce birth control as a sin and tell their uneducated, vulnerable followers that they will go to hell if they use it. Educated mass opinion is that this is pure insanity. What happens? Nothing- birth rates spiral out of control, as does the spread of AIDS, but that's ok as long as the churches have their collection plates filled so that they can keep their followers ignorant and easy to control. Why? They don't give a **** what we think because they don't have to. All they care about is their own power and profits.

Three massive, worldwide examples of the effect PTB has. Ignore them at your peril. You can sign all the petitions you want and it won't make a blind bit of difference. Why? They don't give a **** what you think because they don't have to. All they care about is their own power and profits.

UNTIL THE REAL SOURCE OF THE PROBLEMS IS ADDRESSED YOU ARE JUST CHASING THE SHADOWS THE PTB PROVIDE FOR YOU. You are wasting your energy.

I wish you all the luck in the world and every success, but wishing won't make it so. I won't comment on this thread any more.

In love and light.

J_rod7

04-03-2009, 11:48 PM

Want to end population explosion?

Ban religion.

The words of the Pope are just as dangerous as anything, especially when he continues to advocate against birth control.

Absolutely SPOT-ON. A lot of us feel and think the same way as you have expressed this.

This is the MAIN REASON for which I proposed to TAX ALL RELIGIOUS PROPERTIES. I've sent this proposal to President Obama, a number of Senators and some Representatives, besides posting in these and other Forums. This is an idea whose time has come. I just hope it comes to fruition. This is one way to attack the religious fanatics, hit them in their pocketbooks, pull the rug out from under them, and they will crumble sooner rather than later (yup, they will fall eventually as more and more people learn to think for themselves). Besides, the Guv'mint could really use the extra BILLIONS to derive from taxing ALL the religions properties.

Peace
*****

RaKaR

04-05-2009, 05:53 AM

Hello there!

Steve_G,
Although you have decided to leave this podium(unfortunately!), i address you with the following:

I understand your concerns about what you call the PTB.
There are certainly people and groups of people out there, whose 'interests' do not match with the well-being of the majority of Mankind. Definitely.
And one can, we dare suggest, count religions(Christianity, Islam...) and religeous ideologies among what one calls the PTB.

Are they as powerful as you seem to suggest? - Maybe, i say.
Are we, 'ordinary' people, as defenceless as one might suppose? - certainly not!

We are convinced, that this petition and the idea behind it, could potentially break the power of at least one component of the so-called PTB, namely religions and their ideologies.
Religions press us indeed to 'multiply'(example: “multiply yourself”;
Genesis 1:22:
God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.”).

And indeed, Steve_G and other companions, how would we evolve, advance spiritually, acknowledge our oneness as Mankind, ascend, if you wish, if we keep multiplying and, consequently, remaining in this massive vegetative state, in a situation of daily physical survivor? If we see our fellow Human in the first place as an obstacle, as someone else pretending to the same food, clean water and other essential commodities?

You advocate to address the PTB, as the roots of the problem and you argue, that calling for awareness against overpopulation and promoting a world wide democratic birth control through petition, as means of information, is not enough. Fair enough.

Please, friend, come up with an idea(within the democratic rules, thus lawful and pacific) to more effectively address the PTB, and i will be one of your first supporters - and i will do my very best to assist you.

Namaste.

RaKaR

04-06-2009, 06:34 AM

Follow-up:

Earth population 'exceeds limits'
By Steven Duke
Editor, One Planet, BBC World Service

Page last updated at 18:17 GMT, Tuesday, 31 March 2009 19:17 UK

" There are already too many people living on Planet Earth, according to one of most influential science advisors in the US government.

Nina Fedoroff told the BBC One Planet programme that humans had exceeded the Earth's "limits of sustainability".

Dr Fedoroff has been the science and technology advisor to the US secretary of state since 2007, initially working with Condoleezza Rice.

Under the new Obama administration, she now advises Hillary Clinton.

"We need to continue to decrease the growth rate of the global population; the planet can't support many more people," Dr Fedoroff said, stressing the need for humans to become much better at managing "wild lands", and in particular water supplies. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7974995.stm

The awareness, it seems, is gaining pace.

It is now up to us to determine what those actions 'to continue to decrease the growth rate of the global population' shall be.

I say strongly and irrevocably: a campaign(education, thus) for a Voluntary, Democratic(applying to each and all!), Scientific, World Wide Birth Control!

Namaste.

RaKaR

04-11-2009, 06:39 AM

Greetings,

The message in colors and sounds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RYGwsF4dT4

Eventually also here: http://www.4shared.com/file/97820078/5c1b6828/overpopulation-short-music2.html

A courtesy of Barreto, Beobachter Edelweis - thanks indeed!

Namaste.

BROOK

04-11-2009, 06:45 AM

OMG :thumbdown:

RaKaR

04-13-2009, 06:11 AM

OMG :thumbdown:

Dear BROOK, i sincerely wish you came up with an objective argument, instead - of mere emotions.

Regards.

BROOK

04-13-2009, 07:06 AM

I thought I already had

RaKaR

04-17-2009, 04:56 AM

Taking Action:

"UPCOMING EVENTS FEATURING EARTH POLICY INSTITUTE

APRIL 17 and 18, 2009
"On Thin Ice", a one-hour special on PBS

Seventy-five percent of the world's fresh water is stored in glaciers, but scientists predict climate change will cause some of the world's largest glaciers to completely melt by 2030.
This will increase global competition for food and water and threaten international security.

In a special one-hour NOW on PBS report (check local listings), Host David Brancaccio travels to the Gangotri Glacier in the Himalayas and Montana's Glacier National Park to see the melting and to examine the consequences. Brancaccio talks with Lester Brown about the effects of melting glaciers of India’s food supply."

http://www.pbs.org/now/on-thin-ice-preview.html

Salome.

Phtha

04-17-2009, 06:50 PM

RaKaR

04-19-2009, 11:48 AM

Wow wow RakaR, I don't think I have seen such a complied list of eugenics organizations in one thread before. Impressive!
However, have you not realized that they ptb ALWAYs push there agendas under the hidden guise of helping humanity and the planet?

Population has nothing to do with starvation or any problems we face today. If we all worked for the Earth rather then moon-ey every being alive today would have abundance. In fact us humans could control the grid system of earth and eliminate every desert and make the whole planet a fertile green paradise with more space that we can imagine.

Tell me please, Phtha, is there any organization at all, which is neither eugenics nor linked to ptb, in your eyes - and the eyes of many here, apparently?

An example would be highly appreciated.

Meanwhile, do consider the following objectively:

Muslim Ulama & Implementing Restrictive Family and Population Policies

Briefly: "Easily the most momentous conference of Islamic states directly mandating the enforcement of restrictive population and family policies took place in Islamabad May 4-6, 2005.
The first of its kind on the population issue in the country's history, and indeed in the Muslim world, the International Ulama Conference on Population and Development was organized by the Ministry of Population Welfare with some nominal technical support from the UN Population Fund (UNFPA) and aided by other government departments, especially that of Information." [...]

http://www.readingislam.com/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1153698300026&pagename=Zone-English-Discover_Islam%2FDIELayout

Namaste.

no caste

04-20-2009, 09:06 AM

Hi RaKar - A revolution begins with one, so as long as you are not ejaculating I think your mission is accomplished.

peace

RaKaR

04-20-2009, 04:50 PM

Hi RaKar - A revolution begins with one, so as long as you are not ejaculating I think your mission is accomplished.

peace

Greeting you, no caste!

That is a pretty ...colorful expression of thoughts:-)

You see, i just am convinced, it can't be so hopeless, it can not be so, that plots and conspiracy are and reign everywhere.
We, Humans, can not be so vulnerable and defenceless, we are spiritual entities - and as such uttrely free and responsible for ourselves and for our planet, Mother Earth!

Some around here push suspicion to such an extent, that it looks much like the old fashioned paranoia.

Namaste.

RaKaR

04-22-2009, 09:50 PM

The signs are overwhelming(courtesy of Barreto, Beobachter Edelweis):

54% increase in number of people affected by climate

disasters by 2015 could overwhelm emergency

responses

21 April 2009

Jeremy Hobbs, Executive Director Oxfam International - http://www.oxfam.org

"In six years time the number of people affected by climatic crises is projected to rise by 54 per cent to 375 million people, threatening to overwhelm the humanitarian aid system, said international agency Oxfam today.

The projected rise is due to a combination of entrenched poverty and people migrating to densely populated slums which are prone to the increasing number of climatic events. This is compounded by the political failure to address these risks and a humanitarian system which is not fit for purpose. In its report, The Right to Survive, Oxfam says the world needs to re-engineer the way it responds to, prepare for and prevents disasters.

Oxfam used the best-available data of 6,500 climate-related disasters since 1980 to project that the number of people affected by climatic disaster will rise by 133 million to 375 million people a year on average by 2015. This does not include people hit by other disasters such as wars, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions.

The world needs to increase its humanitarian aid spending from 2006 levels of $14.2 billion to at least $25 billion a year just to deal with these rising numbers of people. Even this increase in money – the equivalent of only $50 per affected person – is still woefully inadequate to meet their basic needs."
[...]

http://www.oxfam.org/en/pressroom/pressrelease/2009-04-21/increase-number-people-affected-climate-disasters

Wake up! Stand up, Earth Humans!

Salome.

RaKaR

06-20-2009, 02:57 PM

International Statement on the Need to Act Urgently on Overpopulation

By Optimum Population Trust, Uk

"Population policy and the environment

International position statement

1. The undersigned organisations recognise the following facts:

A. Past population growth from one billion in 1800 to 2.5 billion in 1950 to 6.8 billion today, together with rising resource consumption per head, has already: caused climate change, increasing pollution, rising sea levels and expanding deserts; and has been largely “funded” by rapidly depleting natural capital (finite resources such as fossil fuels, groundwater, minerals, soil fertility, forests, fisheries and biodiversity) rather than sustainable natural income.

B. The capacity of the Earth is finite, reducing with climate change, and cannot sustain indefinite growth in human numbers and resource exploitation.

C. Global population, increasing by 78 million per year (9,000 per hour) is projected to grow to 9.1 billion by 2050. The additional 2.3 billion, even in low-carbon countries, equates to two more carbon USAs.

D. Indefinite population growth being physically impossible, it must stop at some point: either sooner through fewer births by contraception and humane, pro-active population policy; or later through more deaths by famine, disease, war, and environmental collapse; or some combination of these.

E. Each additional person increases total human impact on the natural environment and decreases natural resources per head; so that all environmental (and many economic and social) problems are easier to solve with fewer people, and harder (and ultimately impossible) with more.

F. Environmental degradation and resource depletion is steadily reducing the number of people the Earth can indefinitely sustain.

G. Spreading industrialisation, urbanisation and first world consumption patterns are further reducing the ultimate carrying capacity of the Earth.

H. Global food supply is heavily dependent on cheap and abundant oil and water, both of which are rapidly becoming more scarce and costly.

I. Development (GDP growth per person) of the poorest countries continues to be hampered by high birth rates (ever more people).

J. The optimum population (best quality of life for all) is clearly much smaller than the maximum (bare survival).

Conclusion: Current population growth is environmentally unsustainable.

2. We recommend that the United Nations and intergovernmental organisations, governments, and non-governmental environment and development bodies should:

A. Recognise and acknowledge the factual truth of these statements.

B. Support, fund or ensure universal access to family planning worldwide, as agreed at the 1994 Cairo Conference and in Millennium Development Goal 5 for 2012.

D. Adopt non-coercive policies to stabilise or reduce populations at or to sustainable levels, including planning for an ageing population.

E. Take firm measures, especially in high-consuming regions, to promote the reduction of per capita resource depletion and environmental degradation.

June, 2009

Signatory organisations

Optimum Population Trust (UK), Population Institute of Canada, Population Institute (USA), Sustainable Population Australia

Please contact OPT if your organisation is interested in signing up to this position statement:

http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.int.statement.html "

Namaste,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

sleepingnomore

06-20-2009, 03:05 PM

Dear BROOK, i sincerely wish you came up with an objective argument, instead - of mere emotions.

Regards.

I really hate to jump in here like this, but actually emotions have changed more injustices and agendas than objective arguments.:cup:

BROOK

06-20-2009, 03:30 PM

Dear BROOK, i sincerely wish you came up with an objective argument, instead - of mere emotions.

Regards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPPpg-Qtx1c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L25fURO1UQs

That is the fault of Society...that is what needs to be changed for us progress to another level of being...that has nothing to do with controlling to population.
Hopefully we are on the dawn of a new face for mankind to wear...but population control is strictly not the answer...the answer is compassion...love...education. My opinion only..but I've seen many large families busting with love for each other...and the values they learn are tremendous...they learn sharing, caring...community.
That is the lesson we all need to learn. I believe that day is dawning..more of us are waking up to the value of life itself...treasure it.
It is society, and the values of the big media, and government that have been controlling for centuries that have caused the burden of the large family.It is the government and cia that have been pushing their drugs and booze on society to the burden of the underdog to fall down and create the problems that they are thriving on today.
It is not about the large family, but the makings of society that needs to change

BROOK

06-20-2009, 04:33 PM

BROOK

06-20-2009, 05:18 PM

I thought I already had

As I stated ...respectfully, this thread is promoting population control, and we all know that the agenda of the NWO is

1 Population control
2 Cashless society
3 one world government
4 total control of the masses

All I feel we need as a society is education..REAL education..not the one they stuff down our throats via Media, and current school systems...but REAL education.
Through real education, we could expand our vision of the world, and utilize all the unpopulated areas and do so with respect to the earth...but again..it comes with REAL education.
If this is coming from emotion..well I guess I have a strong emotional tie to mankind, and wish to see more unity. But there is enough information about the agenda of TPTB...to understand that this is their first order of business...to depopulize...so as to gain more control..it has nothing to do with saving the planet...pure control is all they have on their mind

Has the thought occured to you that the statistics that have been thrown out there by this organization that you are so fond of ...are FALSE..and created to promote FEAR, and PANIC?
Have you seriously investigated the sources of their information? And if you did...have you checked to see what ties they have to organizations that are backed by BIG money? Possibly government?
If so...have you checked their background? DO you really KNOW who it is you are working for? Are they from a long line of aristocracy?
These are the question I would ask...as this agenda is very well documented, and very suspect..so before I would promote such a thing..I would do a thorough background check.

Now if you would like to give us some of the people involved in these organizations..maybe we as a group could check them as well...after all you are giving us all of this information, I think we have a right to know the source.

Just of the top...I went to your site....
the first name I got was
Sir David Attenborough
Sir David, who was knighted in 1985, is a trustee of the British Museum and the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, and a fellow of the Royal Society.

Tim Dyson, professor of demography at the London School of Economics; Prof. Andrew Watkinson, former director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research; Robin Maynard, campaigns director of the Soil Association; Prof. Chris Rapley, director of the Science Museum; Jonathon Porritt, chair of the Sustainable Development Commission; Sara Parkin, founder-director of Forum for the Future and former co-chair of the Green Party; and Dr. Martin Desvaux, an ecological footprint specialist.

Jonathon Porritt, OPT patron and chair of the UK Sustainable Development Commission, which advises the Government on green issues

Quotes by Tony Blair

Climate change is labelled anthropogenic by scientists. In other words, it’s man-made. Even Tony Blair, in his recent foreword to a book on the increasing dangers of climate change*, pointed out the part played by a sixfold increase in human population over the last two centuries. We’re deluding ourselves if we think that reductions in greenhouse gas emissions can be achieved solely through greener technologies and have nothing to do with human numbers.”

Rosamund McDougall is Co-Chair of the Optimum Population Trust, an environmental research and campaigning group. She has run a publishing company (Peridot Press) and worked as an international financial journalist (Financial Times Group) as well as for the Family Planning Association. She is married with one child.

Now I don't know who all these people are...but anyone can check them out..and see what their agend is....have fun researching

BROOK

06-20-2009, 06:09 PM

Better yet..here is the list from the site

What is the Optimum Population Trust?

The Optimum Population Trust is the leading think tank in the UK concerned with the impact of population growth on the environment. OPT research covers population in relation to climate change, energy, resources, biodiversity, development impacts, ageing and employment and other environmental and economic issues. It campaigns for stabilisation and gradual population decrease globally and in the UK. OPT is a registered charity and is financed by its members. It receives funding neither from the government nor from any political or business interests, and is not affiliated to any other organisation*.(*Except as a partner in the Global Footprint Network.)
MAIN AIMS

To advance the education of the public in issues relating to human population worldwide and its impact on environmental sustainability;
To advance, promote and encourage research to determine optimum and ecologically sustainable human population levels in all or any part or parts of the world and to publicise the results of such research;
To advance environmental protection by promoting policies in the United Kingdom or any other part or parts of the world which will lead or contribute to the achievement of stable human population levels which allow environmental sustainability.
PATRONS

Sir David Attenborough CVO CBE, Naturalist, broadcaster and trustee of the British Museum and Royal Botanical Gardens, Kew; and a former controller of BBC Two.
Professor Sir Partha Dasgupta, Frank Ramsey Professor of Economics, University of Cambridge
Professor Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies, Stanford University
Jane Goodall PhD DBE, Founder, Jane Goodall Institute, and UN Messenger of Peace.
Susan Hampshire OBE, Actress and population campaigner
Professor John Guillebaud Former Co-chair of OPT, Emeritus Professor of Family Planning and Reproductive Health, University College, London. Former Medical Director, Margaret Pyke Centre for Family Planning.
Professor Aubrey Manning OBE, President of the Wildlife Trusts and Emeritus Professor of Natural History, University of Edinburgh
Professor Norman Myers CMG, Visiting Fellow, Green College, Oxford University, and at Universities of Harvard, Cornell, Stanford, California, Michigan and Texas
Sara Parkin OBE, Founder Director and Trustee of Forum for the Future and Director of the Natural Environment Research Council and the Leadership Foundation for Higher Education and Head Teachers into Industry.
Jonathon Porritt CBE, Founder Director of Forum for the Future and Chairman of the UK Sustainable Development Commission.
Sir Crispin Tickell GCMG KCVO, Chancellor of Kent University, Director of the Policy Foresight Programme at the James Martin Institute, and former UK Permanent Representative on the United Nations Security Council
BOARD OF TRUSTEES

Edmund Davey is a former primary-school teacher and keenly involved in wildlife organisations. He is an expert in ecological footprinting methodology and sustainable energy.
Martin Desvaux PhD CPhys is a physicist experienced in life assessment techniques for power generation, petrochemical and plant, and formerly a director of ERA Technology. He now researches ecological issues.
Dr Pippa Hayes is a full-time general practitioner in Devon and mother of two teenage boys.
Roger Martin, CHAIR OF TRUSTEES, was a senior diplomat, resigning 20 years ago; becoming a leading environmentalist in the South-West and serving on many green NGOs and quangos.
Simon Ross is an established management consultant providing organisational strategy and performance improvement to the public and private sectors.
Sir Adrian Stott is a management consultant and former town planner, specialising in strategy and organisation.
Yvette Willey, Company Secretary, Treasurer and Membership Secretary. Yvette Willey has been with OPT since its foundation and is a businesswoman with treasury and accounts experience.
POLICY DIRECTORS

Rosamund McDougall, Former Co-chair of OPT, Founder/MD of Peridot Press, financial journalist (The Banker, Financial Times) and family planning campaigner (Family Planning Association).
David Nicholson-Lord, Former Environment Editor, Independent on Sunday, Deputy Chair of the New Economics Foundation and Chair of the Urban Wildlife Network.

BROOK

06-20-2009, 06:20 PM

Sir David Frederick Attenborough

Controller for the BBC Two.....??? Big Media???

From 1965 to 1969 Attenborough was Controller of BBC Two (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_Two). Among the programmes he commissioned during this time were Match of the Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Match_of_the_Day), Civilisation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilisation_(TV_series)), The Ascent of Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ascent_of_Man), The Likely Lads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Likely_Lads), Man Alive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_Alive), Masterclass (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Masterclass_(television_series)&action=edit&redlink=1), Whicker's World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whicker%27s_World), The Old Grey Whistle Test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Grey_Whistle_Test) and The Money Programme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Money_Programme). He also initiated televised snooker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snooker). This diversity of programme types reflects Attenborough's belief that BBC Two's output should be as varied as possible. In 1967, under his watch, BBC Two became the first television channel in the United Kingdom to broadcast in colour.
From 1969 to 1972 he was BBC Television's Director of Programmes (making him responsible overall for both BBC One (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_One) and BBC Two), but ultimately turned down an offer of promotion that would have made him Director General of the BBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Director_General_of_the_BBC). In the year 1972 Attenborough resigned his post and returned to being a programme maker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Attenborough

BROOK

06-20-2009, 06:34 PM

Sir Partha Dasgupta
Sir Partha Dasgupta is the Frank Ramsey Professor of Economics and past chairman of the faculty of economics and politics at the University of Cambridge. From 1991 to 1997, Dasgupta was chairman of the scientific board of the Beijer International Institute of Ecological Economics of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences and, from 1989 to 1992, professor of economics and philosophy, and director of the Program in Ethics in Society at Stanford University. His research interests have covered welfare and development economics; the economics of technological change; population, environmental, and resource economics; the theory of games; and the economics of under nutrition. Dasgupta is a fellow of St. John's College, a fellow of the Econometric Society, a fellow of the British Academy, foreign honorary member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, honorary fellow of the London School of Economics, honorary member of the American Economic Association, member of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, foreign associate of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, and fellow of the Third World Academy of Sciences. He is a past president of the Royal Economic Society (1998-2001) and the European Economic Association (1999). Dasgupta was named Knight Bachelor by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II in 2002 in her Birthday Honours List for services to economics and was co-recipient (with Karl Goran Maler) of the 2002 Volvo Environment Prize. He is a fellow of the Royal Society (elected 2004) and a foreign member of the American Philosophical Society (elected 2005).

Dantheman62

06-20-2009, 06:45 PM

Oh I see RaKaR is back, hmmm, guess what, the earth will take care of itself. And we all will die in the process, whether it be starvation, climate change, war, natural disaster, disease, whatever, it will happen and we'll start all over again and probably do the same thing again, although we'll get better and better at taking care of earth each time. Evolving is a vicious cycle, it's a good thing we never really die, and learn by our mistakes!

BROOK

06-20-2009, 07:03 PM

Paul R. Ehrlich

Paul Ralph Ehrlich (born 29 May 1932 ) is an American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) entomologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomologist) specializing in Lepidoptera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepidoptera) (butterflies). He became a household name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_name)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Ehrlich#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Ehrlich#cite_note-1) after publication of his 1968 book The Population Bomb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb), in which he predicted that "In the 1970s and 1980s . . . hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now."

Career
Ehrlich currently is the president of the Center for Conservation Biology at Stanford University. He is a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Scienc e), the American Academy of Arts and Sciences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Academy_of_Arts_and_Sciences), and the American Philosophical Society (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Philosophical_Society).
Ehrlich's research group at Stanford currently works extensively on the study of natural populations of checkerspot butterflies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterflies) (Euphydryas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphydryas)). Along with Dr. Gretchen Daily (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Gretchen_Daily&action=edit&redlink=1), he has conducted work in "countryside biogeography (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Countryside_biogeography&action=edit&redlink=1)", or the study of making human-disturbed areas hospitable to biodiversity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiversity). Ehrlich continues to conduct policy research on population and resource issues, focusing especially on endangered species (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endangered_species), cultural evolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_evolution), environmental ethics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_ethics), and the preservation of genetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics) resources.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_R._Ehrlich&action=edit&section=4)] Population growth predictions

Ehrlich wrote an article that appeared in New Scientist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Scientist) in December 1967. In that article, Ehrlich predicted that the world would experience famines sometime between 1970 and 1985 due to population growth outstripping resources. Ehrlich wrote that "the battle to feed all of humanity is over ... In the 1970s and 1980s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now." Ehrlich also stated, "India couldn't possibly feed two hundred million more people by 1980," and "I have yet to meet anyone familiar with the situation who thinks that India will be self-sufficient in food by 1971." These specific predictions did not actually come to pass, and his later book The Population Explosion is much more cautious in its predictions.
The article led to the publication of The Population Bomb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Population_Bomb) in 1968, advocating stringent population control (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_control) policies.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Ehrlich#cite_note-6) His central argument on population is as follows:

Sympathetic articles

History of the Zero Population Growth organization (http://www.populationconnection.org/About_Us/history.html)
Info on The Population Explosion, the 1990 sequel to The Population Bomb (http://www.2think.org/tpe.shtml)
Biographical page at the International Center for Tropical Ecology, University of Missouri, St. Louis (http://www.umsl.edu/~biology/icte/WEArecipients/ehrlich.html)
Simon knew what he was doing! (http://www.mnforsustain.org/ehrlich_ehrlich-simon_bet_knew_what_he_was_doing_erickson.htm)
Several online Paul Ehrlich interviews (http://www.globalpublicmedia.com/people/paul_ehrlich)
"Plowboy Interview" of Paul Ehrlich, 1974 (http://www.mnforsustain.org/ehrlich_paul_interview_1974.htm) from The Mother Earth News

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Paul_R._Ehrlich&action=edit&section=14)] Critical articles

A critique of Paul Ehrlich (http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/people/paul_ehrlich.html)
A critical biographical sketch (http://www.nationalcenter.org/dos7111.htm)
We're Doomed Again: Paul Ehrlich has never been right. Why does anyone still listen to him? (http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110005103)
Doomsayer Paul Ehrlich Strikes Out Again (http://www.junkscience.com/news/fumento.html)
The Population Myth Part 2 (http://www.social-ecology.org/article.php?story=20031118100752794) Critique of Ehrlich's ideas by the left-wing environmentalist Murray Bookchin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Bookchin)
Paul R. Ehrlich and the prophets of doom (http://members.optusnet.com.au/exponentialist/Ehrlich.htm) A look at Ehrlich's treatment of exponential growth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth).
Ehrlich quotes (http://www.igreens.org.uk/paul_ehrlich.htm)

BROOK

06-20-2009, 07:12 PM

Professor Sir Partha Sarathi Dasgupta

is the Frank Ramsey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_P._Ramsey) Professor of Economics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics) at the University of Cambridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Cambridge), United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom), and a fellow of St John's College, Cambridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John%27s_College,_Cambridge). He was born in Dhaka, Bangladesh

Affiliations
Dasgupta is a fellow of St. John's College, a fellow of the Econometric Society, a fellow of the British Academy, foreign honorary member of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, honorary fellow of the London School of Economics, honorary member of the American Economic Association, member of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, foreign associate of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, fellow of the Third World Academy of Sciences and patron of the Optimum Population Trust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimum_Population_Trust). He is a past president of the Royal Economic Society (1998-2001) and the European Economic Association (1999). From 1991 to 1997, Dasgupta was chairman of the scientific board of the Beijer International Institute of Ecological Economics of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences and, from 1989 to 1992, professor of economics and philosophy, and director of the Program in Ethics in Society at Stanford University. Since 2008 he has been part-time Professor of Environmental and Development Economics at the University of Manchester's Sustainable Consumption Institute (SCI) and Brooks World Poverty Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_World_Poverty_Institute) (BWPI).

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Partha_Dasgupta&action=edit&section=5)] Honours

Dasgupta was named Knight Bachelor by Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II in 2002 in her Birthday Honours List for services to economics and was co-recipient (with Karl Goran Maler) of the 2002 Volvo Environment Prize. He is a fellow of the Royal Society (elected 2004), a foreign member of the American Philosophical Society

BROOK

06-20-2009, 07:21 PM

We all know this lady...

Dame Jane Goodall

born Valerie Jane Morris Goodall on 3 April 1934) is an English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England) UN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations) Messenger of Peace, primatologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primatology), ethologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethology), and anthropologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropology). She is well-known for her 45-year study of chimpanzee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee) social and family interactions in Gombe Stream National Park (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Stream_National_Park), Tanzania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzania), and for founding the Jane Goodall Institute (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Goodall_Institute).

Goodall has been married twice. On 28 March 1964 she married aristocratic wildlife photographer Baron Hugo van Lawick (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_van_Lawick) at Chelsea Old Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Old_Church), London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London), becoming Baroness Jane van Lawick-Goodall. The couple had a son, Hugo Eric Louis, affectionately known as 'Grub', who was born in 1967. They divorced in 1974. In 1975 she married Derek Bryceson (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Derek_Bryceson&action=edit&redlink=1) (a member of Tanzania (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzania)'s parliament and the director of that country's national parks) and they remained married until his death in 1980. Jane and her younger sister, Judy, both suffer from prosopagnosia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosopagnosia), a neurological condition which impairs the recognition of human faces

Now I love her work...but do you see a trend in the people involved in this organization? Aristrocracy everywhere....politics, agenda
You have to learn to question where the information you get is coming from...and I only scratched the surface :thumb_yello:

Traverser

06-20-2009, 08:42 PM

Blessings To You All...

I must say that I really find this thread Inhumane at best and Genocidal at worst...

The population is what it is, because of the way the Governments and the Plutocricy of the World conducts itself...

Let Me Just Say:

I firmly believe that We could start to wipe out 'World Poverty' and the 'Increasing World Population' tomorrow if We really wanted to. Now when I say We, I mean All Governments of the world.

There are things such as Desalination Plants that would provide water suitable for Human Consumption and Irrigation that would give poorer countries in particular the ability to grow their own food and provide them with an abundant supply of fresh drinking water.
That in itself would eventually reduce World population, as there'd be a severely reduced need to have large families to scrape a meager existance from the land to feed themselves and to sell what little is left.

Abundance is clearly the key to this, you provide people with abundance - incidentally what every single Human Being on face of the Planet deserves at the very least - then this problem, as some would see it, would find a natural balance. Right now, the World population is in 'Balance' purely due to the circumstances that people find themselves in.

So in short; Provide the People of the World with 'Abundance' and let Nature find it's own 'Natural Balance'...

Namaste,

Love and Light to All,
Trav.

BROOK

06-20-2009, 08:54 PM

Back to this guy....while I don't agree with everything the author says...here are some facts about one of the members of your organization...I will highlight the areas of concern...

From the WSJ Opinion Archives
BOOKSHELF

We're Doomed Again
Paul Ehrlich has never been right. Why does anyone still listen to him?

by RONALD BAILEY
Thursday, May 20, 2004 12:01 A.M. EDT

Environmentalist Paul Ehrlich has proved himself to be a stupendously bad prophet. In 1968 he declared: "The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s, the world will undergo famines--hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death." They didn't. Indeed, a "green revolution" nearly tripled the world's food supply. In 1975, he predicted that, by the mid-1980s, "mankind will enter a genuine age of scarcity," in which "accessible supplies of many key minerals will be facing depletion." Far from it. Between 1975 and 2000 the World Bank's commodity price index for minerals and metals fell by nearly 50%. In other words, we abound in "key minerals." Naturally, Mr. Ehrlich has won a MacArthur Foundation genius award--and a Heinz Award for the environment. (Yes, that Heinz: Teresa Heinz Kerry is chairman of the award's sponsoring philanthropy.)
So why pay him any notice? Because he is a reverse Cassandra. In "The Illiad," the prophetess Cassandra makes true predictions and no one believes her; Mr. Ehrlich makes false predictions and they are widely believed. The gloomier he is and the faultier he proves to be as a prophet, the more honored he becomes, even in his own country.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/images/storyend_dingbat.gif
Any thinking person will thus want to know, accolades aside, what actual effect "One With Nineveh" will have on the intellectual environment. The title is taken from "Recessional," the poem in which Rudyard Kipling warned Victorian England that it, too, could fall, like the capital of the ancient kingdom of Assyria. Mr. Ehrlich--writing with his wife, Anne--asserts that "humanity's prospective collision with the natural world" means that "what is at risk now is global civilization."

"One With Nineveh" begins by recycling the now familiar catechism of environmentalist doom, but most of it is devoted to the Ehrlichs' hugely ambitious plans for reorganizing the world's economy and systems of government to ward off apocalypse. Homer used the word hubris to refer to this aspect of human nature.
The "prospective collision with the natural world" is supposed to happen when human population, economic growth and technological progress reach some horrible point of intersection on a chart of global doom. In the Ehrlichs' simplistic summary, environmental Impact equals Population x Affluence x Technology, the notorious I=PAT identity. Impact is, of course, always negative. One notes that the three factors aren't merely added together; their allegedly deleterious effects are multiplied.
History shows that the I=PAT identity largely gets it backward. Population is at worst neutral, while affluence and technology, far from harming nature, actually promote its flourishing. It is in the rich, developed countries that the air becomes clearer, the streams clearer, the forests more expansive. While the Ehrlichs put forward a few good ideas--such as replacing income taxes with consumption taxes and eliminating government subsidies--most of their analysis consists of antimarket screeds and hackneyed corporation-bashing. The Ehrlichs also underplay the good news. Globally, women are having fewer and fewer babies, so the world's population will likely peak at around eight billion in 50 years or so. The agronomist Paul Waggoner has argued that if farmers around the world can raise their productivity to current U.S. levels--even using current technology, nothing newer--they can easily feed 10 billion people, with better diets. And they can do so, according to his projections, using half the land they now farm, thus sparing more land for nature. The chief hope for that result is precisely the market that the Ehrlichs decry, and the economic dynamism that comes with it.

Of course, there are environmental problems, although not the global warming the authors fear. (Satellite data now suggest that such warming will be mild over the next century--about a degree Celsius.) But the depletion of fisheries and tropical forests is real enough. Alas, the Ehrlichs and most of their ecological confreres miss the central reason for it: the tragedy of the commons, where nobody owns a resource--forest, fish, water--and thus no one has a reason to protect it. By contrast, enclosing the commons, by assigning owners, internalizes costs and benefits, and allows markets to determine the value of any given resource. With characteristic wrongheadedness, they advocate instead eroding property rights, thus enlarging the commons and tending to make environmental problems worse.

In 1971, Mr. Ehrlich told Look magazine: "When you reach a point where you realize further efforts will be futile, you may as well look after yourself and your friends and enjoy what little time you have left. That point for me is 1972." What is Greek for "this is ridiculous"? Mr. Bailey is science correspondent for Reason magazine.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110005103

BROOK

06-21-2009, 12:38 AM

Finally RaKaR....I truly believe you have the best of intentions :thumb_yello:
Your heart is in the right place for sure...however I believe you've been misguided by this group...there are lots of big names, and research done in that organization ...I would be impressed as well.

I strongly question their motives..and many of their theories are pure hogwash....and propaganda in my view.

if allowed to dig further I believe you could find many things that stink with this organization...primarily the head person on the contact list is Big media....I don't trust anything they put out there, and you should really start researching their motives as well
Blessings to you RaKaR...hoping you really dig into this and research what they are feeding you.
Brook

in closing videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClqUcScwnn8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XrGINLd_r8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djwnTbfuMnc

RaKaR

06-21-2009, 07:23 AM

Greeting you BROOK and all the others,

Thanks for your contributions.
I am indeed back, free of my academic duties, i.e end year examinations :-(

Now then.
I see insinuations, yet another conspiracy theory and a couple of trials of intentions; i am alas yet to see from you a single word on the statement itself, on the content of the call of Optimum Population Trust.
Is it rational?
Are there some grounds and logic in their proposals?
Is there any trace of reason and humaneness in this statement?
On which point do you object?
...

Once again, let us not throw the message together with the messenger - because we do not like her/his name.

And no, BROOK, i am not being mislead by these people; these people just happen to come to the same conclusion: We, Humans, must be more responsible in the way we procreate, in order not to further jeopardize the sustainablity of this planet, Mother Earth, together with all her Children.

Why shall we allow wars for resources to take place, famines, diseases, epidemics and massive migrations of weary fellow Humans to occur, when we can avoid them by embracing a scientific, democratic(applying to each and all), world wide BIRTH CONTROL - and preserve therethrough Human Dignity?

Mainwhile:

Over one billion people in world go hungry every day: UN report

"ROME, June 19 (Xinhua) -- World hunger is projected to reach a historic high in 2009 with 1.02 billion people going hungry every day, according to a new report published by the UN food agency FAO on Friday.

The most recent increase in hunger is not the consequence of poor global harvests, but is caused by the world economic crisis that has resulted in lower incomes and increased unemployment.

This has reduced access to food by the poor, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) said in the report.

"A dangerous mix of the global economic slowdown combined with stubbornly high food prices in many countries has pushed some 100 million more people than last year into chronic hunger and poverty," said FAO Director-General Jacques Diouf.

"The silent hunger crisis - affecting one sixth of all of humanity - poses a serious risk for world peace and security. We urgently need to forge a broad consensus on the total and rapid eradication of hunger in the world and to take the necessary actions," he told reporters at a news conference in Rome's FAO headquarters. "

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-06/19/content_11570339.htm

Shall we bring millions of new innocent souls into this misery - on a daily basis?

Namaste.

Humble Janitor

06-21-2009, 07:31 AM

The mere suggestion of intentional population control reeks of reptilian doings.

I'm surprised that this thread is even still alive.

RaKaR

06-21-2009, 10:00 AM

burgundia

06-21-2009, 10:12 AM

I only know that constant increase in the population is not good...I doubt mother Earth can take it much longer...fewer animals and plants, more and more people....where is the balance?

RaKaR

06-21-2009, 10:18 AM

I only know that constant increase in the population is not good...I doubt mother Earth can take it much longer...fewer animals and plants, more and more people....where is the balance?

That is certainly a legitimate question - specially with the knowledge/acknowledgement, that all is connected and interdependent.

Namaste.

Traverser

06-21-2009, 10:34 AM

The mere suggestion of intentional population control reeks of reptilian doings.

I'm surprised that this thread is even still alive. Calling for Censhorship??!! Also Here??!! Man!

But seriously, Humble Janitor, in your love of conspiracies and shadow chasing, don't you mind any contradictions at all? - who could 'reptilians', who allegedly eat Human flesh(sic), promote population reduction through Birth Control????
Are 'reptilians' so dumb?!

Blessings To You All...

Humble Janitor,
I must say I agree totally with you that the intentional control of the World's Population is wrong on all levels.
However, I must respectfully disagree with you that this thread should be closed...

I'd much rather know what what we're dealing with here when it comes to mindset of fellow Human Beings, who wish to control the World Populace...

RaKaR,
I refer to my previous post where I called for All Human Beings to live in 'Abundance'. Do you see the logic in that point of view that if this were the case, then people would have no need for larger families to work the land. Thus reducing the World Population in a more controlled and Balanced way - Nature's Way...

BROOK,
I would just like to say to you that I appreciate all your hard work and research you've done, it's Enlightening, Thank You...

Namaste,

Love and Light to All,
Trav.

Seashore

06-21-2009, 11:30 AM

...and now we are increasing by 100 million every single year.

No wonder they call it the human race.

Solution birth control: quality of life not quantity..."

What say you?

Take action! Improve the life of mankind! Save your world!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/111795148

Two other petitions calling for awareness of overpopulation and for a world wide democratic and scientific birth control are to be found here:

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/world-wide-birth-control

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Billy_Meier/Special:Petition

I have just scanned this thread for the first time...

The opening post cites two websites:

care2 petitionsite
Future of Mankind - A Blly Meier Wiki

Am I correct to say that this thread was started based on Billy Meier prophesy?

Traverser

06-21-2009, 11:52 AM

I have just scanned this thread for the first time...

The opening post cites two websites:

care2 petitionsite
Future of Mankind - A Blly Meier Wiki

Am I correct to say that this thread was started based on Billy Meier prophesy?

Greetings seashore,

I believe you're correct!

It's a substantial part of it, Yes!

It still doesn't make it any more right, in my humble opinion...

Namaste,

Love and Light to All,
Trav.

RaKaR

06-21-2009, 12:10 PM

I have just scanned this thread for the first time...

The opening post cites two websites:

care2 petitionsite
Future of Mankind - A Blly Meier Wiki

Am I correct to say that this thread was started based on Billy Meier prophesy?

Greetings Seashore,

You are correct; i would just add 'Billy Meier Prophecy' and sheer common sense.

Seashore

06-21-2009, 12:13 PM

I believe you're correct!

It's a substantial part of it, Yes!

I noticed that Brook did a lot of research for the thread. But that research was based on news articles that were introduced in subsequent posts on the thread...

The opening post of the thread--the premise for the argument to sign a petition to end the population "explosion"--is not based on science...

I would love to see a discussion of world population based on reliable science...

But that's so hard to find. The United Nations cannot be trusted. And universities get their funding from sources controlled by the powers that be. So scientists there are under pressure and are not free to speak their minds.

RaKaR

06-21-2009, 12:21 PM

Traverser

06-21-2009, 12:51 PM

Traverser,
You wrote, i quote: "I refer to my previous post where I called for All Human Beings to live in 'Abundance'. Do you see the logic in that point of view that if this were the case, then people would have no need for larger families to work the land. Thus reducing the World Population in a more controlled and Balanced way - Nature's Way..."

Spot on! - a life of sole physical survival is really beneath Human Dignity and SPIRITUAL nature, our true essence.
I will just point to your attention, that nature in its endless wisdom has also provided us with Reason and Judgement, so that we could take care of ourselves and manage our life.
Embracing a scientific, rational, democratic and world wide Birth Control for the sake of our own selves, for future generations, Mother Earth, the Flora and fauna would indeed be exactly 'Nature's Way' - for it is in the Nature of Humans to have and make efficient use of NATURAL reason and judgement.

Namaste.

Greetings RaKar,

I have to point out that I feel that your replay is somewhat out of context to the question I posed which was regarding all people's of the world living in 'Abundance'.

Again I respectfully ask; "Do you see the logic in that point of view that if this were the case, then people would have no need for larger families to work the land. Thus reducing the World Population in a more controlled and Balanced way - Nature's Way..."

It is precisely the lack of 'Abundance' that is the 'Root Cause' and has forced Human Being's to increase in numbers. We are all indeed in very fortunate positions and we don't find ourselves fearing for our survival or that of our family...

Again, this is Man's solution to a perceived problem, let's get to the 'Root Cause' and stop ignoring what's blatantly staring us in the face...

'Abundance is Key'

Namaste,

Love and Light to All,
Trav.

RaKaR

06-21-2009, 01:18 PM

Hello again, Traverser,

I believe, i answered your question by tackling it from 'its roots': abundance being the key'.
The point is, abundance demands sustainability and sustainablity passes through a responsible attitude towards ourselves, our number and legitimate needs and the rest of Nature, Mother Earth.
How would you otherwise achieve that abundance?
Our houses, recreation and sport spaces, factories... are taking much of the room.
The air and water are being heavily polluted.
Species of both the fauna and flora are being extincted, because their natural habitats are being invaded - think of honey bees, for instance.
How much cultivable land is still left?
Our food comes from the countryside - while most of us are packed in cities.

How would you increase the production, to reach that abundance? - by increasing the use of chemicals, which would poison the soil and water still more?

Or are you thinking of the legendary and mysterious free energy, the panacea? - where is it? Who has it? Will those having it, share its benefits with all Mankind?

And actually, even with a free energy device, we would need to follow natural laws, that is that the land needs time to naturally recover, after a certain nombre of years of exploitation.

Abundance is also not only limited to having enough food, clean water and other commodities; it is about creating a living situation, whereby we, Humans, could also spiritually grow - and Spirituality supposes, as a necessary condition, due care for other life forms.

So, i say, let's work with what we REALLY have and be self responsible.

Namaste, indeed.

Seashore

06-21-2009, 01:51 PM

You are correct; i would just add 'Billy Meier Prophecy' and sheer common sense.

I have to say that my common sense does not accept the premise that the math shows that we will overtake our planet if we don't intervene in the birth rate.

Or has the thread disposed of this idea and is debating something else now?

TruthWillSetUFree

06-21-2009, 02:00 PM

I can't believe this thread is still alive either. There is nothing you can say to legitimize this bs.

A few other thoughts would be

I believe more souls are coming in at this time to help with the transition.

No one on the planet has the right to play God about the population.

Someone mentioned we could find a way to feed everyone on the planet IF we wanted to. This is the Truth. TPTB want us to think that we are at fault for living, just like we are at fault for 'global warming', at fault for using gas, at fault cause we were born with sin on our souls, etc etc. It is all made up to program us in a subservient mindset.
We have had free energy for a long time but they 'suicided' those that tried to bring it to the public, we had the electric car before 'they' shut it down and took it away.

If this world hadn't been used to make them richer and the masses poorer every human being would be feeding their families without any problem. That is a basic survival mechanism in humans. They make it difficult, rob countries, close down whole business's and cause recessions and depressions, then blame it on over population.

What ****

I am done with this thread

RaKaR

06-21-2009, 02:00 PM

I have to say that my common sense does not accept the premise that the math shows that we will overtake our planet if we don't intervene in the birth rate.

Or has the thread disposed of this idea and is debating something else now?

Hi Seashore,
Read, " sheer common sense ...of the author of the thread":-)
And no, as you can see, the thread is still on it - and it is rock'n!

Cheers!

RaKaR

06-21-2009, 02:02 PM

BROOK

06-21-2009, 07:07 PM

UK population must fall to 30m, says Porritt
From The Sunday Times

March 22, 2009

Jonathan Leake and Brendan Montague

JONATHON PORRITT, one of Gordon Brown’s leading green advisers, is to warn that Britain must drastically reduce its population if it is to build a sustainable society.

Porritt’s call will come at this week’s annual conference of the Optimum Population Trust (OPT), of which he is patron.

The trust will release research suggesting UK population must be cut to 30m if the country wants to feed itself sustainably.

Porritt said: “Population growth, plus economic growth, is putting the world under terrible pressure.
Each person in Britain has far more impact on the environment than those in developing countries so cutting our population is one way to reduce that impact.”

Population growth is one of the most politically sensitive environmental problems. The issues it raises, including religion, culture and immigration policy, have proved too toxic for most green groups.

However, Porritt is winning scientific backing. Professor Chris Rapley, director of the Science Museum, will use the OPT conference, to be held at the Royal Statistical Society, to warn that population growth could help derail attempts to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

Rapley, who formerly ran the British Antarctic Survey, said humanity was emitting the equivalent of 50 billion tons of CO2 into the atmosphere each year.

“We have to cut this by 80%, and population growth is going to make that much harder,” he said.

Such views on population have split the green movement. George Monbiot, a prominent writer on green issues, has criticised population campaigners, arguing that “relentless” economic growth is a greater threat.

Many experts believe that, since Europeans and Americans have such a lopsided impact on the environment, the world would benefit more from reducing their populations than by making cuts in developing countries.

This is part of the thinking behind the OPT’s call for Britain to cut population to 30m — roughly what it was in late Victorian times.

Britain’s population is expected to grow from 61m now to 71m by 2031. Some politicians support a reduction.

Phil Woolas, the immigration minister, said: “You can’t have sustainability with an increase in population.”

The Tory leader, David Cameron, has also suggested Britain needs a “coherent strategy” on population growth.

Despite these comments, however, government and Conservative spokesmen this weekend both distanced themselves from any population policy. ”

Please answer this...HOW do they plan on achieving this?

I also must say...there is politics all over this article....pure POLITICS
I keep hearing from you there is this critical need to lower the population....just exactly how do they plan on doing this?

And remember several posts back, I questioned the motives....I keep seeing the same group of aristocrats and political people involved with this organization.
Conspiracies are not the only issue here..there are cold hard facts to consider...one of the members of this organization....
Paul Ehrlich ....wrote a book back in 1968...stating the very thing you are stating now, via this organization.....not only did his prediction NOT come true, but he lost a BET...that key minerals would face depletion due to this problem....not only was he wrong...they actually abounded in key minerals..dropping the index rate in the market. As far as food supply ...well in his time of indicating disaster..the world food supply TRIPLED ....
I want to see some cold hard FACTS..not political agenda here...what do you have to offer us that is NOT tainted by big media, or political agendas. Or for that matter that could not be corrected by Political Change, and investment in mankind instead of big banking.

BROOK

06-21-2009, 07:22 PM

Indefinite population growth being physically impossible, it must stop at some point: either sooner through fewer births by contraception and humane, pro-active population policy; or later through more deaths by famine, disease, war, and environmental collapse; or some combination of these

It is not Physically impossible....political rhetoric in my view

famine, disease, war, and environmental collapse; or some combination of these......again....WAR...DISEASE....this sounds more like threats to me.

this taken from your post here # 116
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12538&page=5

Traverser

06-21-2009, 07:50 PM

Blessings to you RaKaR and to All,

Hello again, Traverser,

I believe, i answered your question by tackling it from 'its roots': abundance being the key'.
The point is, abundance demands sustainability and sustainablity passes through a responsible attitude towards ourselves, our number and legitimate needs and the rest of Nature, Mother Earth.
How would you otherwise achieve that abundance?

I firmly believe that we could better Manage and Distribute, the resourses of our planet. Right now, as we speak, this planet is being run by greed. That is true, I hope you'd agree..?

Now that said, the power of change lies within us, All Government's and All People's of the World. We, particularly First World Countries are Consumer driven, there is too much waste, too much over indulgence, without a care or thought for others. This has to change if we want to see a shift in our current paradigm.

Here is a link to an article from BBC NEWS; The Waste & Resources Action Programme estimate that householders in the UK waste £10.2bn each year (Approx $15.0bn). This is the UK only, now take that Globally, and you get the picture. No matter your stand point on this whole issue, that would feed, give shelter and clothe a lot of people...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7389351.stm

Our houses, recreation and sport spaces, factories... are taking much of the room.
The air and water are being heavily polluted.
Species of both the fauna and flora are being extincted, because their natural habitats are being invaded - think of honey bees, for instance.
How much cultivable land is still left?
Our food comes from the countryside - while most of us are packed in cities.

The very point you make Our homes, recreational spaces and factories taking up to much room is nonsensical. Every Human Being on the face of the Earth could live in any state in the US, this is a Fact!

The very issue of polution has to be addressed and I for one don't think that Renewable Energy is being fully utilised, no where near it. So Wind Power, Tidal, Geothermal and Solar Energy and many others need heavier investment, but that wouldn't suit the Plutocricy.

As for the invasion of natural habitats, this is created by man's insatiable greed, which I'd suggest is the 'Root Cause' here... Not, over population as you'd suggest. The World population is what it is because of the way Human Beings are forced to scratch out a living.

How would you increase the production, to reach that abundance? - by increasing the use of chemicals, which would poison the soil and water still more?

Or are you thinking of the legendary and mysterious free energy, the panacea? - where is it? Who has it? Will those having it, share its benefits with all Mankind?

And actually, even with a free energy device, we would need to follow natural laws, that is that the land needs time to naturally recover, after a certain nombre of years of exploitation.

This point was covered in my first and second answers; Better Management and Distibution of what we already have. And Heavier Investment into Renewable Energy, much more than there is now.

I've never mentioned Free Energy up until this point. So, since you brought the subject up, I believe the technology exists. But, if they can't/won't give us Renewable Energy, then Free Energy will be a long way off. I wouldn't hold my breath, put it that way...

Abundance is also not only limited to having enough food, clean water and other commodities; it is about creating a living situation, whereby we, Humans, could also spiritually grow - and Spirituality supposes, as a necessary condition, due care for other life forms.

So, i say, let's work with what we REALLY have and be self responsible.

I Agree with All of what you say here...
Looks like we've found some middle ground RaKaR. :original:

Namaste,

Love and Light to All,
Trav.

BROOK

06-21-2009, 08:01 PM

More members of this organization...very politically involved group

Sara Parkin

Sara Parkin is a former Green Party of England and Wales activist. She rose to prominence during and after the 1989 European election, in which the Green Party received 15% of the vote. She left the Greens as the result of internal feuds in the wake of constitutional changes she introduced, and went on to found the Forum for the Future with Jonathon Porritt.

Political career

Parkin joined the Ecology Party in the 1970s, partly as the result of the influence of public lectures by Conrad Hal Waddington. in 1979 she stood as a Ecology candidate against Keith Joseph. Parkin also contributed to the development of Green Parties world wide. After 1989, she emerged as the most articulate and telegenic Green party spokesperson, alongside David Icke.

She was credited with both being personally close to Green Party policy views, and practical in terms of political tactics.

She was considered a highly dynamic figure within the party during the 1989 elections: “Quite often we'd be exhausted in the office and she'd burst through the door and bring with her new thoughts and ideas,” said Caroline Lucas at the time.

Walter Schwartz wrote, after the 1989 results that “she could be the party’s best all-rounder, the easiest of the Greens to imagine as a cabinet minister. She is a highly organised political animal. Most Greens are not."

However, during the 1989 conference, internal disputes began to arise. Parkin was defeated in her attempt to initiate negotiations with other parties to establish a pro-proportional representation alliance against the Conservative Party.

She also at this stage supported ideas to slim down the number of official external spokespeople, Principal Speakers but rejected the idea of a single leader.

Later, she became associated with the group Green 2000 which advocated wholesale constitutional changes to the Green Party, including creating an Executive with a single Chair and only two Principal Speakers. Although successful in getting these changes agreed and winning almost all the positions on the Executive staked everything on the 1992 general election which brought a complete lack of success. The fall out resulted in Parkin and others becoming the target of a 'recall' campaign which, although unsuccessful, was thought to be a factor in why Parkin withdrew from the re-election competition as Chair of the Green Party and subsequently left the party and active politics.
Life after politics

Parkin moved on to create the Forum for the Future with two other past Green party activists, Porritt and Paul Ekins.

While at the Forum, she designed the pioneering Forum Leadership for Sustainable Development Masters.

She also currently sits on the boards of the Natural Environment Research Council, the Leadership Foundation for Higher Education and Head Teachers into Industry, and from 2000-2006 was a board member of the Environment Agency for England and Wales. Sara is a Companion of the Institution of Civil Engineering and the Institute of Energy.[2] She is a Trustee of the St. Andrews Prize and Advisor to the Population and Sustainability Network.

Norman Myers

Professional career

Myers is currently Professor and Visiting Fellow at Green College, Oxford University, and at the Said Business School. He is an Adjunct Professor at Duke University. He holds visiting professorships at Harvard, Cornell, Stanford and Berkeley.

Myers has been a senior advisor to organizations such as the United Nations, the World Bank, the White House, scientific academies in a dozen countries, influential politicians (including six prime ministers and presidents) and business leaders worldwide. He has publicized his work in hundreds of scholarly papers and popular articles and 19 books (sales of these books, over one million copies).

Dr. Myers’ expertise in both the natural sciences and the social sciences has enabled him to contribute responses to a broad range of environmental issues, including: population pressures, developing country poverty, over-consumption, unsustainable agriculture, climate change, and environmental security.

One of the chief characteristics of Norman Myers’ research is his penchant for raising new questions as well as supplying new answers to established questions. He has pioneered more than 15 research issues.

Recently, Myers has given support to the Forests Now Declaration, which calls for new market based mechanisms to protect tropical forests. He is a patron of the Optimum Population Trust.

BROOK

06-21-2009, 08:17 PM

The cry should go up in Europe: more babies, please
From The Times

Melanie McDonagh

Of all the bogeys you might have thought well and truly nailed in the past decade or so, the population control movement seemed most obviously to have a stake through its heart. At a time when we – I mean, anyone over 35 – are all horribly conscious that there won’t be enough taxpayers to support us in gin and cigarettes in our old age, the very last thing we need to worry about is excess population growth. On the contrary: as seen from the dinner party circuit, the real crisis is the difficulty for female graduates in getting anyone to breed with. Forty per cent of women graduates don’t have a single baby at the age of 35.

But, against all the odds, the population control lobby is back and trying to make the breeders feel guilty. The Optimum Population Trust – a wonderfully loaded title – made a call this week for families in the UK to limit themselves to no more than two children. It was like stepping into a time warp, back to the Seventies. Britain’s birthrate, growing at its fastest for nearly 30 years – at 1.87 children per couple – is, says the author of its report, Professor John Guillebaud, an environmental liability. “Each new UK birth, through the inevitable resource consumption and pollution that UK affluence generates, is responsible for about 160 times as much climate-related environmental damage as a new birth in Ethiopia.” He wants the Government to appeal to families to “stop at two children”, with particular reference to fecund teenage girls. Funny, I dimly recall Patricia Hewitt, as Health Secretary, opining that couples ought to have three children – one for each parent, and one for the State.

And there is the hint – but just a hint – from the Optimum Population people that if voluntary restraints do not work, governments will bring in coercive measures. The example that springs to mind here is, of course, China and its compulsory one-child policy. I’ve come across some distinguished academics myself who wouldn’t dream of trying to impose coerced abortion here but have made it quite clear, in private conversation, that we should all be grateful on environmental grounds that it happens in China.

Most environmentalists are more sensitive, at least in their public pronouncements. But undeniably, population control is back on the public agenda. There was a nuanced BBC radio discussion on this subject to coincide with the Live Earth concert between the writer George Monbiot and Chris Rapley, the head of the British Antarctic Survey, in which Professor Rapley declared that population growth was the “Cinderella subject” in the environmental debate. More people equals more carbon emissions: simple as that. Monbiot agreed that the subject was not talked about as much as it should be and emphasised that if we’re talking about population control, we have to worry not just about the developing world but about the breeding habits of the affluent West. About us.

That sounds dandy. The nice approach to curbing population growth is by making family planning more freely available in the developing world and in particular, to educate girls, who then marry later and have fewer children. The complementary route is to increase economic growth in developing countries: when people don’t have to rely on children as their seed corn for old age, they tend to have smaller families. Trouble is, increased economic
growth also means higher carbon emissions. You can’t win.

But when it comes to the suggestion that in Western Europe, and especially Britain, we should be cutting back on babies, especially among the indigenous population, well, the family planners have got to be nuts. Do they all have private pension provision, own homes and health insurance, or what? The rest of us – including those, like me, who are eco-puritans – have a vested interest in ensuring that the Continent does not shrink out of existence. We’ve got our old age to think about. The price of family homes in Britain and Ireland is already the most effective contraceptive measure ever known.

Don’t the environmentalists get out at all? Don’t they realise that there are only two classes in Britain for whom three or more children are an option – the rich, for whom mortgages don’t matter, and the poor, whose children are supported by the benefit system? The increase in the birth rate this year was largely accounted for by immigrants and older, richer mothers. One reason why there's such resentment – articulated by the Labour minister Margaret Hodge – among white working-class Britons about asylum-seekers with children getting social housing ahead of them is that the system seems to discriminate against couples who postpone having children until they can afford them in favour of ethnic minority communities with large families.

Europe needs more babies – the average continental family has a mere 1.37 children. Cutting back non-EU immigration to limit pressure on housing stock would help. So would state cash handouts. In Portugal, where the birthrate has fallen to 1.7 children per couple, the Government has considered giving tax breaks to people who have more than two children and levying higher taxes on those who have fewer. Germany is similarly concerned – it could lose the equivalent of the population of the former East Germany within 50 years. Russia’s population is contracting at the rate of three quarters of a million a year: the resourceful Mr Putin is paying mothers to have a second child.

The last thing we should be doing is bullying people to breed less. The population controllers have to be put back in their box. You know, Augustus Caesar had a tax on Roman bachelors. With due allowances for gay men and professional celibates, there’s lots to be said for the idea.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2067023.ece

BROOK

06-21-2009, 08:46 PM

The Population Control Agenda
Stanley K. Monteith, M.D.

One of the most difficult concepts for Americans to accept is that there are human beings dedicated to coercive population control and genocide. Many readers will acknowledge that our government is helping to finance the Red Chinese program of forced abortion, forced sterilization, infanticide, and control of the numbers of live births. Most readers will accept the fact that our nation is helping to finance the United Nations' world-wide "family planning program," a form of population control. Most rational men and women, however, find it impossible to believe that such programs are really part of a "master plan" to kill off large segments of the world's population.
I shall have to admit that I studied the politics of AIDS (HIV disease) for over a decade before I finally came to a horrifying conclusion. The real motivation behind efforts to block utilization of standard public health measures to control further spread of the HIV epidemic was "population control." That was not an easy concept for me to acknowledge, despite the fact that I had long recognized that the twentieth century has been the bloodiest hundred-year period in all recorded human history.
It was not until I journeyed to Elberton, Georgia, stood within the dark shadows of the great Druid-like monument built there, and read the words engraved on the massive stone pillars of that structure that I finally came to accept the truth. At that point it became obvious that just as our Lord has given mankind Ten Commandments to guide our lives, so, too, those from "the dark side" have been given their instructions from the "one" they worship. The ten programs of the "guides" are inscribed in eight different languages on the four great granite pillars of the American Stonehenge. That message foretells a terrifying future for humanity, and explains why efforts to approach the AIDS epidemic from a logical point of view have been consistently thwarted.1
Before you scoff, and reject my suggestion as some sort of madness, check out my references, then try to disprove my conclusions. If my allegations are unfounded, you will soon recognize the deception and return to your daily activities, certain that there is no cause for concern. On the other hand, should you determine that my assessment is correct, or even partially correct, then you have a moral obligation to decide just what part you intend to play in response to the unfolding world genocide - how you will protect yourself, your loved ones, and the countless millions of helpless human beings throughout the world who have been marked for destruction.
You must never forget the warning recorded for posterity by Martin Niemoeller, the Lutheran minister who lived in Hitler's Germany during the 1930s and 1940s. His words echo down to us over succeeding decades:
"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up." 2
You will note that Reverend Niemoeller warned that after coming for the Jews the Nazis came for both Catholics and Protestants. Why is that fact never mentioned? The question that I am most frequently asked is, "How can you possibly believe that there are people who intend to kill off large segments of the world's population?" My answer is really quite simple. I hold that belief because I have read their writings. I believe they are telling the truth. Just as Adolf Hitler wrote of his plans for Europe in "Mein Kampf" (My Plan), so, too, those who intend to depopulate large segments of the earth have written of the necessity of limiting the world's population. They fully intend to "exterminate" a significant portion of the world's population. The fact that the vast majority of Americans have never heard of their intent, of The Georgia Guidestones in Elberton, or of "The Plan" and "The
Hierarchy" attests to the degree of control that exists over what the American people have been allowed to know about the occultic forces which are working within our society today.
Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood
As you read on you will soon discover that I have primarily relied on material which can be readily found in books, audio-taped interviews, and public news sources. If you take the time to check my references, you will soon discover that there really are those who have publicly advocated the elimination of "human weeds" and "the cleansing of society." Indeed, to this very day your tax money is used to finance Planned Parenthood, an organization founded by Margaret Sanger. During the 1930s Margaret Sanger openly supported the Nazi plan for genetic engineering of the German population, and the propagation of a "super race."
In Planned Parenthood's 1985 "Annual Report" leaders of that organization proclaimed that they were, "Proud of our past, and planning for our future." 3
How could anyone possibly claim to be proud of the organization founded by Margaret Sanger when history records that she wrote of the necessity of: "the extermination of 'human weeds' ...the 'cessation of charity,' ... the segregation of 'morons, misfits, and the maladjusted,' and ... the sterilization of 'genetically inferior races.'"4
Margaret Sanger published "The Birth Control Review." In that magazine she openly supported the "infanticide program" promoted by Nazi Germany in the 1930s, and publicly championed Adolf Hitler's goal of Aryan white supremacy. In the years prior to World War II Margaret Sanger commissioned Ernst Rudin, a member of the Nazi Party, and director of the dreaded German Medical Experimentation Programs, to serve as an advisor to her organization. In his excellent book "Killer Angel," George Grant chronicles the life and writings of Margaret Sanger, and painstakingly documents Sanger's plans for the genetic engineering of the human race. George Grant noted that in the 1920s Margaret Sanger wrote "The Pivot of Civilization" in which she called for:
"The 'elimination of 'human weeds,' for the 'cessation of charity' because it prolonged the lives of the unfit, for the segregation of 'morons, misfits, and the maladjusted,' and for the sterilization of genetically inferior races.'"5
ccording to George Grant, Margaret Sanger believed that the unfit should not be allowed to reproduce. Accordingly, she opened a birth control clinic in: "The Brownsville section of New York, an area populated by newly immigrated Slavs, Latins, Italians, and Jews. She targeted the 'unfit' for her crusade to 'save the planet.'" 6
Nineteen years later, in 1939, Margaret Sanger organized her "Negro project," a program designed to eliminate members of what she believed to be an "inferior race." Margaret Sanger justified her proposal because she believed that: "The masses of Negroes ...particularly in the South, still breed carelessly and disastrously, with the result that the increase among Negroes, even more than among whites, is from that portion of the population least intelligent and fit..." 7
Margaret Sanger then went on to reveal that she intended to hire three or four Colored Ministers "to travel to various black enclaves to propagandize for birth control." She wrote: "The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the Minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members." (emphasis added-Ed.) 8
As Margaret Sanger's organization grew in power, influence, and acceptance, she began to write of the necessity of targeting religious groups for destruction as well, believing that the "dysgenic races" should include "Fundamentalists and Catholics" in addition to "blacks, Hispanics, (and) American Indians." 9
As the years went by, Margaret Sanger became increasingly obsessed with her occultic beliefs. Along with her acceptance of the occult, she became increasingly hostile to both Christianity and the American precepts of individual freedom under God. Her distaste for America can be seen in her writings when she wrote: "Birth control appeals to the advanced radical because it is calculated to undermine the authority of the Christian churches. I look forward to seeing humanity free someday of the tyranny of Christianity no less than Capitalism." 10 Margaret Sanger eventually embraced not only communism but theosophy as well. What is theosophy? It is a covert, occultic religion based upon the repudiation of God and the worship of Lucifer. In modern-day America, theosophy is one of the most powerful hidden (occult) forces working behind the scenes in New York City, Washington D.C., and across our nation today. 11
How many times have you been told that Adolf Hitler killed 6 million Jews in the Holocaust? What you probably have never been told, however, is the segment of the Holocaust tragedy recorded by Professor Norman Cohn in his historical account of the Jewish Holocaust, "Warrant for Genocide." Professor Cohn chronicled the dark days of World War II, noting: Only about a third of the civilians killed by the Nazis and their accomplices were Jews ...Other peoples were marked out for decimation, subjugation, and enslavement, and the civilian losses of some of these (countries - Ed.) amounted to 11 per cent to 12 per cent of the total population." 12
If Professor Cohn's figures are accurate - and I feel certain that they are, because other Jewish researchers have come up with similar figures - then why haven't the Christians of America been allowed to learn the fact that in addition to the 6 million Jews murdered by the Nazis, somewhere between 7 and 12 million non-Jews were also ruthlessly liquidated in Hitler's Germany?
I believe this information has been intentionally suppressed because those who were killed were largely Christians, and the covert forces which control the reality of the American public today do not want the followers of Jesus Christ in our nation to awaken to their peril ...until it is far too late. Hitler hated not only Jews and Judaism, he also hated Christians and Christianity as well. Why was that? Because Adolf Hitler, just like Margaret Sanger, was a disciple of theosophy and of Madame Blavatsky, the founder of a religion that worshipped Lucifer. Accordingly, both Margaret Sanger and Adolf Hitler were energized by the same "dark, spiritual forces." The fact that most of our citizens have never heard of Madame Blavatsky, theosophy, or that two of theosophy's most ardent disciples were Adolf Hitler and Margaret Sanger clearly reflects the degree of control that exists over what the American people have been allowed to learn about the occultic forces at work in our nation today.
As a researcher on the subject of the occult, I regularly receive letters and publications from the Lucis Trust. The Lucis Trust of today is the modern-day extension of the "Lucifer Publishing Company," an organization founded by Alice Bailey during the early years of the twentieth century. Alice Bailey was a disciple of Madame Blavatsky and the nominal leader of the Theosophical Society between the early 1900s and the late 1920s. Because the name "Lucifer" had such a bad connotation in those days, Alice Bailey changed the name of her organization from "The Lucifer Publishing Company" to "The Lucis Trust." The nature and beliefs of her organization, however, have always remained the same. The Lucis Trust of today is one of the major front groups through which theosophy works to influence life here in America. The supernatural powers that still energize The Lucis Trust today certainly come from the same dark, spiritual forces that energized Madame Blavatsky, Adolf Hitler, and Margaret Sanger in generations past.
Publications from The Lucis Trust regularly refer to "The Plan" for humanity that has been established by "The Hierarchy." Part of that plan is inscribed on the great granite pillars of the American Stonehenge in Elberton, Georgia ... "The Georgia Guidestones." 13
A full discussion on the subjects of population control and occultism is far beyond the scope of this short monograph. Full documentation on these subjects will be found in my soon-to-be-published book, "None Dare Call It Genocide." At this point let me simply offer a few examples of the views expressed by those who publicly advocate population reduction and/or genocide.
David Graber, a research biologist with the National Park Service, was quoted in the Los Angeles Times Book Review Section, October 22, 1989, as saying: "Human happiness and certainly human fecundity are not as important as a wild and healthy planet. I know social scientists who remind me that people are part of nature, but it isn't true ... We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon the Earth ...Until such time as homo sapiens should decide to rejoin nature, some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along." 14
Michael Fox, when he was the vice-president of The Humane Society of the United States wrote, "Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth." 15
In "The First Global Revolution," published by The Council of the Club of Rome, an international elitist organization, the authors note that: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine, and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention ...The real enemy, then, is humanity itself." 16
he Los Angeles Times of April 5, 1994 quoted Cornell University Professor David Pimentel, speaking before the American Association for the Advancement of Science, as saying that, "The total world population should be no more than 2 billion rather than the current 5.6 billion."
In the UNESCO Courier of November 1991, Jacques Cousteau wrote: "The damage people cause to the planet is a function of demographics - it is equal to the degree of development. One American burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes ... This is a terrible thing to say. In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it's just as bad not to say it."17
Bertrand Russell, in his book, "The Impact of Science on Society," wrote, "At present the population of the world is increasing ... War so far has had no great effect on this increase ... I do not pretend that birth control is the only way in which population can be kept from increasing. There are others ... If a Black Death could be spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full ... the state of affairs might be somewhat unpleasant, but what of it? Really high-minded people are indifferent to suffering, especially that of others." 18
egative Population Growth Inc. of Teaneck, New Jersey recently circulated a letter stating their long-range goal. "We believe that our goal for the United States should be no more than 150 million, our size in 1950. For the world, we believe our goal should be a population of not more than two billion, its size shortly after the turn of the century." 19
n the Global Assessment Report of UNEP (a United Nations sponsored study group), Phase One Draft, Section 9, the authors quoted an expert who suggested that: "A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible." 20
More New Age Influence
Speaking at a round-table discussion group at the Gorbachev Conference held in San Francisco in the fall of 1996, Dr. Sam Keen, a New Age writer and philosopher stated that there was strong agreement that religious institutions have to take a primary responsibility for the population explosion. He went on to say that, "We must speak far more clearly about sexuality, contraception, about abortion, about values that control the population, because the ecological crisis, in short, is the population crisis. Cut the population by 90% and there aren't enough people left to do a great deal of ecological damage."
Mr. Keen's remarks were met with applause from the assembled audience made up largely of New Age adherents, Socialists, Internationalists and occultists. Many of the leading occultists of our modern world attended that meeting in San Francisco, a meeting organized by Mikhail Gorbachev, former Director of the Soviet KGB, and later President of Russia. 21
What is the message found on The Georgia Guidestones? What is the plan of the "guides"? If you read occultic literature, you will soon find that those who worship Lucifer today refer to a "Hierarchy" that guides both their actions and the affairs of the world. Who are the "Hierarchy"? The Lucis Trust, formerly The Lucifer Publishing Company, recently sent a letter to their supporters stating, "The spiritual Hierarchy makes definite use of the twelve spiritual Festival periods. We can learn to cooperate with the members of the Hierarchy as they work to bring the divine Plan to the attention of men and women of goodwill and spiritual aspiration everywhere throughout the world. The idea of spiritual approach - of Hierarchy to humanity and humanity to Hierarchy - is the primary principle underlying meditation ...understanding of how the spiritual energies which flow through each zodiacal sign can illumine and inspire right human relations." 22
The ancient Druids were members of an occultic religion; the circle of monuments at Stonehenge in England is occultic; and the message engraved on the American Stonehenge in Elberton is occultic. Yoko Ono is the widow of John Lennon, a man who was deeply involved in the occult. Yoko Ono has written a musical score with three movements dedicated to the message of The Georgia Guidestones. She was recently quoted as saying, "I want people to know about the stones ...We're headed toward a world where we might blow ourselves up and maybe the globe will not exist ... it's a nice time to reaffirm ourselves, knowing all the beautiful things that are in this country, and The Georgia Stones symbolize that." 23
What is the message to modern-day man which is engraved on the great stone pillars of the Druid-like monument in Elberton? The first of the "guides" reads: "Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature. (This-Ed.) Means the entire human race at its climax level for permanent balance with nature."
he Infamous Tuskegee Study
In recent history, we have seen the influence of occultic population control advocates here in America. Nowhere is that influence better demonstrated than in the Tuskegee Study, a scientific research program in which 400 syphilis-infected black men were recruited by the U.S. Public Health Service back in 1932. The participants were all told that they would be treated for their infections, but instead of treating their illness, all medicines were withheld. The black men were then actively prevented from obtaining treatment elsewhere as their bodies, and the bodies of their wives and children, were systematically ravaged by disease.he evil men who conceived that Nazi-style study justified their atrocity by alleging that scientists needed to learn how untreated syphilis progressed in the human body. For a period of forty years, between 1932 and 1972, the genocidal Tuskegee Study continued. It was not until 1972, when one newspaper finally had the courage to break the story to the public, that the Tuskegee Study was finally terminated. By that time, only 125 of the original 400 black men had survived.
To this very day, 24 years after the end of that grotesque human experiment, none of the perpetrators of that atrocity have ever been either accused or indicted for their crimes. Back in 1932, when the Tuskegee Study began, Margaret Sanger's ideas had already begun to infect the minds and souls of physicians and scientists here in America. According to Margaret Sanger's sense of morality, experiments on "human weeds" were fully justified in the name of "science." Do you honestly believe for one moment that such an experiment would have been tolerated here in America had the participants been white men? 24
Another far more effective method of reducing the world population was devised in the early 1960s by a group of environmentalists and population-control adherents. They set out to block the use of DDT for mosquito and malaria control after it had been found that the insecticide was extremely effective in saving human lives.
Alexander King, president of the Club of Rome, wrote, "My own doubts came when DDT was introduced. In Guyana, within two years, it had almost eliminated malaria. So my chief quarrel with DDT,in hindsight, is that it has greatly added to the population problem." 25
In 1970 The National Academy of Sciences, in their book "Life Sciences," stated that, "In little more than two decades DDT has prevented 500 million deaths due to malaria."
To population-control advocates, this irresponsible preservation of human life was unconscionable, so they set out to outlaw further use of the pesticide. Up until 1970 all reliable scientific data had consistently demonstrated that DDT was completely safe for both humans and animals. Indeed, DDT was the safest pesticide ever known to mankind. Furthermore, it was inexpensive and could be widely used in third-world countries to control the spread of insect-borne diseases. Accordingly, population-control adherents set out to have DDT banned in the name of saving the environment.
You have probably read the contrived stories alleging that DDT caused softening of eggshells, interfered with the balance of nature, and endangered humanity by entering into the food chain. In truth, all of those stories were fabricated, and were simply part of a carefully coordinated program to block further use of the life-saving pesticide. If you are interested in learning the truth concerning the deceitful campaign waged against DDT, I suggest that you order a copy of my audio-taped interviews with Dr. J. Gordon Edwards. Dr. Edwards is a world-renowned biologist who led the fight in the 1960s to counter the propaganda program waged by environmentalists and population-control advocates to ban further use of DDT. You can also order a copy of Dr. Edward's excellent monograph, "Remembering Silent Spring and its Consequences."
William Ruckelshaus was a long-time member of the Environmental Defense Fund, and the Director of the EPA. He outlawed further use of DDT in 1972 despite the recommendation of the chairman of the EPA investigating committee which had heard six months of testimony on use of the pesticide, and had determined that DDT was completely safe. When Ruckelshaus outlawed further use of DDT, he signed the death warrant for hundreds of millions of helpless human beings living in third-world countries. To those energized by the dark side, however, the loss of hundreds of millions of human lives was relatively inconsequential.In his excellent monograph, "Remembering Silent Spring and its Consequences," Professor J. Gordon Edwards quoted from a speech delivered by Victor Yanconne, founder of the Environmental Defense Fund. In that talk, Mr. Yanconne related a story told to him by a reporter who had asked Dr. Charles Wurster, one of the major opponents of DDT, whether a ban on DDT wouldn't actually result in far greater use of much more toxic pesticides. Dr. Wurster is reported to have replied: "So what? People are the cause of all the problems. We have too many of them. We need to get rid of some of them and this is as good a way as any." hen asked by the same reporter, "Doctor, how do you square the killing of people with the mere loss of some birds?" Dr. Wurster is reported to have replied, "It doesn't really make a lot of difference, because organo phosphate acts locally and only kills farmworkers and most of them are Mexicans and Negroes." 26
How many people have died in the past 25 years since the use of DDT was outlawed? If the National Academy of Sciences was correct in their 1970 assessment that 500 million lives had been saved by DDT over a twenty-year period, then we have probably lost well over 600 million human lives during the past twenty-five years since advocates of population control succeeded in outlawing DDT. 27
The Relationship Between Abortion, Breast Carcinoma, and Population Control
Let me offer another example of a population control program which is being promoted here in the United States today. Many physicians have expressed their concern about the dramatic increase in breast carcinoma seen in women in recent years.
Despite the fact that 18 scientific studies published in both domestic and foreign medical journals have clearly demonstrated the direct causal relationship between first-trimester abortion and breast cancer, all efforts to disseminate that information here in the United States have been consistently blocked by those who favor abortion and population control. In the fall of 1996 a new scientific paper dealing with a meta-analysis of 23 different scientific studies on the relationship between first-trimester abortions and breast cancer was published in a British medical journal.
That study clearly demonstrated a higher incidence of breast cancer in women who had had first-trimester abortions. In response to that publication, the American Medical Association (AMA), the American Cancer Society (ACS), and pro-abortion/population-control advocates joined together in an unholy alliance to attack the conclusions of the authors, and to block all efforts to disseminate that information to American physicians. All of the organizations mentioned above continue to oppose efforts to have physicians warn women of the risk they face when they submit themselves to first-trimester abortions. Before carrying out all surgical procedures in America "advised consent" is required, except for abortion.
The AMA. the ACS, and the pro-death lobby continue to insist that women must not be advised of the risk they incur when they destroy the life of their unborn child. Why is there such inconsistency? Current abortion policies in America are absolutely necessary to reduce our population. That is why a minor child can be taken from school to an abortion clinic without parental notification, yet that same child cannot be given an aspirin without parental consent. It all has to do with population control. 28
Population Control in Russia Today
Another dramatic example of population control is the tragedy being played out in the "former" Soviet Union today in regard to male longevity. In Russia, the life span of the average Russian male has dropped precipitously over the past several decades. The average life expectancy of an American male is 74-78 years of age, and in Japan the average life span is 78 years, but the average life span of Russian men has fallen from 68 years in the 1970s to 63.8 years in 1985, to 57.7 years in 1994. It is estimated that, if current trends continue, the average life span of a Russian male will be 53 years shortly after the turn of the century. Do you really believe that this shocking reduction in life span is happening simply by "accident"? The true cause of this dramatic reduction in life span in Russia will be detailed in my coming book, "None Dare Call It Genocide." 29The Massacres in Africa
One has only to learn what really happened to the Christians in Rwanda between April and July of 1994 to imagine what may lie in store for Christians here in America at some time in the not-too-distant future.
After the Christian Tutsis had been disarmed by governmental decree in the early 1990s, Hutu-led military forces began to systematically massacre the defenseless Christians. The massacre began in April 1994 and continued until July 1994. Using machetes rather than bullets, the Hutu forces were able to create a state of abject fear and terror within the helpless Christian population as they systematically butchered hundreds of thousands of them. The United Nations immediately convened hearings on the genocide taking place in Rwanda, but Madeline Albright, the American Ambassador to the United Nations, argued strenuously that neighboring African nations should not be allowed to intervene until the "civil war had come to an end." In reality, of course, there was no civil war since those being slaughtered had no weapons with which to defend themselves; it was simply a matter of mass murder.
In addition to blocking intervention by neighboring nations, Madeline Albright also insisted that the word "genocide" must not be used, and that the United Nations forces stationed in Rwanda were not to be allowed to intervene. In the three months that followed, between one-half and three-quarters of a million Christians were systematically dismembered, hacked to death, and slaughtered in the bloody carnage that ensued. Tens of thousands of Christians were murdered in their churches; tens of thousands more were murdered in their hospitals and in their schools. On several occasions, United Nations soldiers stationed in Rwanda actually handed over helpless Christians under their protection to members of the Hutu militia. They then stood by as their screaming charges were unceremoniously hacked to pieces.
At the end of the carnage, in late July 1994, the American government rewarded the Hutu murderers with millions of dollars in foreign aid. Strangely, the American press has remained silent about the fact that almost all of those who were slaughtered were Christians, and it was the policies of our government that were primarily responsible for blocking efforts by neighboring African countries to intervene.
There are literally dozens of other examples of population- control programs which have been implemented throughout our world by modern-day "Malthusians" in their effort to ensure that the world population is dramatically curtailed. To date it is estimated that far more than one billion human lives have been terminated as a result of the world-wide abortion programs financed by the United States. In addition, we are beginning to see the devastating effects of the AIDS epidemic as this modern-day plague begins to depopulate large areas of both Asia and Africa. Because of the influence of occultic population controllers, however, all logical efforts to address the HIV epidemic throughout the world continue to be blocked. Rather than utilizing the proven public health methods used with all other illnesses, advocates of population control continue to promote both hedonistic sex education and condom distribution. In the May 1996 issue of "Special Warfare," a publication of the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School, it was noted that: "The immediate future may present other daunting challenges to Civil Affairs units. Because of complicated social and cultural reasons, AIDS already infects a high proportion of the military and civilian officials of Zaire, Uganda, Kenya, Zambia, and other central Africa countries. In some or all of these countries, government establishments may collapse in the next 10-15 years. If this pattern is repeated in other areas where AIDS is spreading at an alarming rate, then civil rule may also erode or break down in parts of North Africa, the Middle East, India, and Southeast Asia."
Let me assure you that there really are hundreds of thousands of occultly energized people throughout the world today who honestly believe that human compassion is outmoded, and that the inferior peoples of the world must either be allowed to die or be actively exterminated. I will conclude this monograph by quoting from the writings of the English Churchman, Thomas Robert Malthus (1766-1834). In his "An Essay on the Principle of Population," Malthus wrote: "All children born, beyond what would be required to keep up the population to a desired level, must necessarily perish, unless room may be made for them by the deaths of grown persons ...Therefore ...we should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavoring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this mortality..."

http://www.radioliberty.com/pca.htm

BROOK

06-21-2009, 09:11 PM

Monday May 25, 2009

Commentary: World's Elite Make Population Control #1 Priority against Backdrop of Underpopulation Threat

Commentary by John-Henry Westen
NEW YORK, May 25, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Even though recent demographic study has revealed a great looming threat of demographic winter, the richest of the rich seem to believe that overpopulation is the top priority for their philanthropic endeavors. John Harlow writes today in The Times about a secret meeting of the global financial elite, convened by Microsoft mogul Bill Gates, at which attendees agreed that curbing the world's population should be their top priority.
In "Billionaire club in bid to curb overpopulation," Harlow recounts that a May 5 meeting took place in Manhattan that included "David Rockefeller Jr, the patriarch of America's wealthiest dynasty, Warren Buffett and George Soros, the financiers, Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York, and the media moguls Ted Turner and Oprah Winfrey." Harlow notes that the general agreement that population control was a major priority came at Gates' instigation.
Gates' enthusiasm for population control comes as no surprise since he has himself admitted to being strongly influenced by the views of Thomas Malthus, the fear-mongering overpopulation guru of the late 18th century. He has also admitted that his father headed a local Planned Parenthood while he was growing up. (http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2003/may/03050902.html)
Of note, The Times reports that at the secret meeting, participants "discussed joining forces to overcome political and religious obstacles to change."
The group's priority certainly comes into conflict with Catholicism, as Pope Benedict has recently spoken of population growth as an asset rather than a deficit. In his message for World Day of Peace issued in December, Pope Benedict XVI deplored the "international campaigns afoot to reduce birth-rates, sometimes using methods that respect neither the dignity of the woman, nor the right of parents to choose responsibly how many children to have; graver still, these methods often fail to respect even the right to life."
Smashing any appeal to undertake population control in the name of alleviating poverty, the Pope added: "The extermination of millions of unborn children, in the name of the fight against poverty, actually constitutes the destruction of the poorest of all human beings."
In his message, the Pope brought demographic evidence to defend his views. "Nor must it be forgotten that, since the end of the Second World War, the world's population has grown by four billion, largely because of certain countries that have recently emerged on the international scene as new economic powers, and have experienced rapid development specifically because of the large number of their inhabitants. Moreover, among the most developed nations, those with higher birth-rates enjoy better opportunities for development.

In other words, population is proving to be an asset, not a factor that contributes to poverty," the Pope concluded. (http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/dec/08121202.html) The Times paraphrased the account given by one attendee of the secret meeting who spoke anonymously, saying, "a consensus emerged that they would back a strategy in which population growth would be tackled as a potentially disastrous environmental, social and industrial threat."
"This is something so nightmarish that everyone in this group agreed it needs big-brain answers," said the guest. "They need to be independent of government agencies, which are unable to head off the disaster we all see looming." In answer to a question about the secrecy, the guest replied, "They wanted to speak rich to rich without worrying anything they said would end up in the newspapers, painting them as an alternative world government."
In sharp contrast to the ideas of the billionaires, a recent film containing the views of some prominent demographers has sounded the alarm on underpopulation rather than overpopulation. Promoting the film 'Demographic Winter' at a recent event, celebrated columnist Don Feder said that the demographic problem of worldwide declining birthrates "could result in the greatest crisis humanity will confront in this century" as "all over the world, children are disappearing."
Feder noted, "In 30 years, worldwide, birth rates have fallen by more than 50%. In 1979, the average woman on this planet had 6 children. Today, the average is 2.9 children, and falling." He explained the situation noting, "demographers tell us that with a birthrate of 1.3, everything else being equal, a nation will lose half of its population every 45 years." (http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009/jan/09012611.html)
See the article in The Times here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6350303.ece

BROOK

06-21-2009, 09:18 PM

Monday January 26, 2009

Demographic Winter: "Schools will be turned into nursing homes. Playgrounds will become graveyards."

By John-Henry Westen

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/images/Persons/DonFeder.jpgWASHINGTON, DC, January 26, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Celebrated columnist and pro-family leader Don Feder gave a jaw-dropping presentation on the coming 'Demographic Winter' at the Rose Dinner which closes the official March for Life festivities every year. Speaking to hundreds of attendees, Feder suggested that the demographic problem of worldwide declining birthrates "could result in the greatest crisis humanity will confront in this century" as "all over the world, children are disappearing."

"In the Western world, birthrates are falling and populations are aging," said Feder. "The consequences for your children and grandchildren could well be catastrophic."

Feder noted, "In 30 years, worldwide, birth rates have fallen by more than 50%. In 1979, the average woman on this planet had 6 children. Today, the average is 2.9 children, and falling." He explained the situation noting, "demographers tell us that with a birthrate of 1.3, everything else being equal, a nation will lose half of its population every 45 years."
Beyond an inability to pay for pensions, it is likely that euthanasia will be one looked-to solution to the aging crisis, he said.

"Demographic Winter is the terminal stage in the suicide of the West - the culmination of a century of evil ideas and poisonous policies,'" he said. Among them he listed:

"Abortion - As I mentioned a moment ago, worldwide, we're killing 42 million people a year. It's as if an invading army killed every man woman and child in Italy - then repeated the process every year.

"Contraception - For the first time in history, just under half the world's population of childbearing age uses some form of birth control. Some of us remember when births weren't controlled and pregnancies weren't planned. With all the wailing about man-made Global Warming, carbon footprints and the ozone layer, wouldn't it be ironic if what did us in wasn't the SUV but the IUD?

"Delayed marriage. People are marrying later and later. After 35, it becomes progressively harder for a woman to have children.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/images/2009a/DemographicWinter.jpg"The decline of marriage and the rise of cohabitation. Not surprisingly, in relationships without commitment, people have fewer children. By the way, the left's contribution to the coming population crisis is to push the one type of ‘marriage’ (and I use the term advisedly) that can't conceivably produce children.

"But perhaps,” he concluded, “the most important factor is a culture (including Hollywood, the news media and academia) that tells people that children are a burden, rather than a joy; that pushes an ego-driven, live-for-the-moment ethic; a culture that tells us that contentment comes from careers, love, friendship, pets, possessions, travel, personal growth - anything and everything except family and children. It's a culture that can look at Sarah Palin and her beautiful family and ask why she had to have 5 children and why she didn't abort her child with Downs syndrome."

For more see the first documentary on the plummeting birth rate:
"Demographic Winter: the decline of the human family"
http://www.demographicwinter.com (http://www.demographicwinter.com/)

** See the full text of Feder's talk here **
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009_docs/DonFederRoseDinnerspeech.pdf

BROOK

06-21-2009, 09:34 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IG2IZEzUmA0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7asW73ozBqU

orthodoxymoron

06-21-2009, 09:46 PM

Traverser

06-21-2009, 10:29 PM

From a spiritual perspective...how many bodies does Earth need to provide temporary homes for the souls who need them? How many souls are there? Where do they come from? If the Georgia Guidestones target of 500,000,000 was achieved...where would all of the souls go who are currently in bodies here on Earth? Is the purpose of massive depopulation to make humans more manageable by non-humans? If this population target was reached...would total extermination be the next goal?

How about a moderate solution of responsible reproduction...with condoms and education...with the goal of a world population of 4 billion?

Blessings orthodoxymoron and to All,

May I start by asking Firstly; How do you suggest we do this?!?!

You see, We still have 'Free Will'...

I don't think for a second - and I'm sure you don't either - that Human Beings all around the World are just having Children for the sake of it. It's born out of necessity, they need the extra hands to make end's meet and that outweighs having an extra mouth to feed.

As well as this, I'm sure they're more than aware of the many forms of contraception, I think We'd do them a great disservice to think otherwise...

I just can't fathom; Why some cannot see the obvious..? It'd take away the controlling aspect of all this and a 'Natural Balance' would occur.

Namaste,

Love and Light to All,
Trav.

BROOK

06-21-2009, 11:44 PM

Ten reasons why population control is not an answer to climate change

By Simon Butler
June 1, 2009 -- Climate change is the greatest challenge humanity has ever faced. The scientific evidence of the scale of the threat is overwhelming, compelling and frightening. Climate tipping points -- points which if crossed will lead to runaway global warming -- are being crossed now.
We live in a time of consequences. So it’s crucial that the climate justice movement -- made up of those determined to take a stand now to win a safe climate future -- campaigns for the changes that can actually make a difference.
A discussion has surfaced about whether population-control measures should be a key plank in the climate action movement’s campaign arsenal. Below are 10 reasons why such a decision would hinder, rather than help, the necessary task of building a movement that can win.

1. Population does not cause climate change

Advocates of population control say that one of the most effective measures we can take to combat climate change is to sharply reduce the number of humans on the planet. This wrongly focuses on treating one symptom of an irrational, polluting system rather than dealing with the root causes.
People are not pollution. Blaming too many people for driving climate change is like blaming too many trees for causing bushfires.
The real cause of climate change is an economy locked into burning fossil fuels for energy and unsustainable agriculture. Unless we transform the economy and our society along sustainable lines as rapidly as possible, we have no hope of securing an inhabitable planet, regardless of population levels.
Population-based arguments fail to admit that population levels will impact on the environment in a very different way in a zero carbon emissions economy. Making the shift to renewable energy -- not reduction in human population -- is the most urgent task we face.

2. The world is not ‘full up’

The world is not experiencing runaway population growth. While population is growing, the rate of this growth is in fact slowing down. This is mostly due to rising urbanisation and marginal improvements in women’s access to birth control technology. The rate of population growth peaked at 2% annually in the 1960s, and has fallen consistently since then[1] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn1).
According to the United Nations the average number of children born per woman fell from 4.9 in the late 1960s to 2.7 in 1999[2] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn2). A December 2008 assessment from the US Census Bureau predicts a steady decline to 0.5% annual population growth by 2050[3] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn3).
Between 1950 and 2000 world population increased by 140%. Experts predict a rise of 50% between 2000 and 2050 and just 11% in the 50 years following that.
In contrast, the rate of greenhouse gas emissions is rising out of control. Polluting technology, rampant consumerism and corporate greed are driving this increase -- not population.
Can we feed this many people? Studies by the UN’s Food and Agriculture Organisation insist it is possible to feed well over 10 billion people sustainably -- but only if we move to a very different food system. A diversified and organic farming system which produces a balanced mix of plant foods, along with small amounts of meat, could, according to British biologist Colin Tudge, sustain 10 billion people without farming any new areas[4] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn4)
A shift to sustainable farming is also desperately needed to cut greenhouse gas emissions.

3. Social justice and women’s equality is the best contraception

Larger population growth rates in the Third World are a consequence of dire poverty and restrictions on women’s ability to control their own fertility. The evidence for this can’t be challenged.
The latest UN population report released on March 12, 2009, predicts population will exceed 9 billion people by mid-century. Almost all of this growth will occur in the global South.
The 49 poorest countries in the world will have by far the biggest increases. In the richest countries, however, population will decline from 1.23 billion to 1.15 billion if projected net migration is left aside. (It will increase to only 1.28 billion including net migration.)[5] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn5)
Raising living standards globally, eradicating hunger and poverty, improving health care, providing access to education and achieving greater equality for women are all necessary if we are to win a safe climate with global justice. They will also result in lower birth rates.

4. The climate emergency demands immediate, transformative action now

Even if they could work in the long term -- a dubious proposition – population-control schemes are plainly inadequate as a response to the climate emergency.
The well-known Australian environmental writer Tim Flannery is also one of the patrons of Sustainable Population Australia -- a group that argues population reduction should be the number one priority to avert climate change.
Yet in a recent survey of the latest climate science in Quarterly Essay even Flannery had to conclude: “The truth is that if we wish to act morally, we can influence population numbers only slowly. So, while it’s important to focus on population decrease as a long-term solution, we cannot look to it for answers to the immediate crisis.”[6] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn6)

5. Population arguments wrongly downplay the potential to win

Left unchecked, climate change threatens life on the planet.
Recognition of this fact is the major impetus for the movement demanding that governments take serious action on climate change without delay.
Populationists, however, try to turn this fact on its head. Climate change will lead to a world so harsh, uncertain and polluted, the argument goes, that it’s more “humane” to prevent future generations from being born at all[7] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn7).
This “humane” population reduction argument is couched in terms of containing, or mitigating, the apparently inevitable effects of environmental destruction. Instead, the struggle for an alternative model of development, based on meeting the needs of people and planet, should be our main concern.

6. Population control is an old argument tacked onto a new issue

Climate change is just the latest in a long list of issues that has been seized on by advocates of population control.
For centuries, simplistic population theories have been advanced to explain the existence of poverty, hunger, famine, disease, war, racism and unemployment.
In each case, the real social and economic causes of these social ills have been glossed over. Time is running out to avert global warming -- we need to take serious action that tackles the problem at the root.

7. Arguing for tighter migration restrictions is a dangerous policy

Reducing immigration intake into Australia is the current policy on the anti-environmental Labor government[8] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn8). As the climate crisis deepens, we can expect the government and the big polluters will want to divert attention from their own inaction. Migrants could be a convenient scapegoat. Migrants are already being falsely blamed for adding to unemployment. We can’t allow them to be blamed for corporate Australia’s addiction to fossil fuels.
Supporting cuts in migration avoids the real burning issue -- Australia is the highest emitter of greenhouse gases per capita in the world. Migrants who come here should be welcomed and invited into our movement for a safe climate. They are not responsible for the policies of past governments or the greed of the big polluters.

8. Population control has a disturbing history

In practice, there has never been a population-control scheme that has had acceptable environmental or humanitarian outcomes. Columbia University professor Matthew Connelly has thoroughly documented this disturbing history in his 2008 book, Fatal Misconception[9] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn9).
China’s one-child policy has been hailed as an environmental measure by prominent population theorists such as Britain’s Jonathan Poritt..[10] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn10) But he and others ignore that China’s population control has hardly solved that country’s growing environmental problems.
The human costs of the policy, however, are shocking. Until 2002 Chinese women were denied any choice of contraceptive method -- 37% of married women have been forcibly sterilised[11] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn11). Female infanticide has reached epidemic proportions. The global ratio for male to female births is 106:100. In China today, male “births” outnumber females by 120:100[12] (http://links.org.au/node/1076#_ftn12).

9. People in the global South are part of the solution, not the problem

At its worst, population-control schemes put the blame for climate change on the poorest people in the global South -- those least responsible for the problem in the first place.
It’s a major mistake to see the masses of the global South as passive victims of climate change. In truth, they are the pivotal agent in the campaign to avert global warming.
We need a strategy of building stronger links and collaboration with movements for climate justice in the global South -- not draw up plans to reduce their numbers.

10. Who holds political power is the real `population’ issue

There is one part of the world’s population that poses a genuine threat: the small group of powerful, vested interests who profit most from polluting the biosphere and are desperately resisting change.
The real “population change” we need to focus on is not artificially reducing human numbers. Rather, it is about winning real democratic change, i.e. dramatically increasing the numbers of ordinary people who can participate in making decisions about investment in green industries, agriculture, global trade and military spending.
Population control narrowly looks only at the quantity of human beings to find a solution to climate change. Ultimately, its narrow vision makes it a divisive policy.
The climate action movement, however, is really concerned with improving the quality of human life.
On that basis we can build a movement of hope and solidarity strong enough to penetrate national borders and restore a safe climate for future generations.

http://links.org.au/node/1076

orthodoxymoron

06-22-2009, 12:04 AM

Blessings orthodoxymoron and to All,

May I start by asking Firstly; How do you suggest we do this?!?!

You see, We still have 'Free Will'...

I don't think for a second - and I'm sure you don't either - that Human Beings all around the World are just having Children for the sake of it. It's born out of necessity, they need the extra hands to make end's meet and that outweighs having an extra mouth to feed.

As well as this, I'm sure they're more than aware of the many forms of contraception, I think We'd do them a great disservice to think otherwise...

I just can't fathom; Why some cannot see the obvious..? It'd take away the controlling aspect of all this and a 'Natural Balance' would occur.

Namaste,

Love and Light to All,
Trav.

Are you advocating no reproductive education and no birth control? What would be an ideal world population? 10 billion? 20 billion? 30 billion? How many is too many? How few is too few? Do you agree with the Pope regarding birth control? Do you prefer crowded cities?

I disagree with the Pope...and I agree with contraception and reproductive responsibility. 4 billion seems like a reasonable figure to me.

J_rod7

06-22-2009, 03:47 AM

*******
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There is an Island...

One of the world's most famous yet least visited archaeological sites, Easter Island is a small, hilly, now treeless island of volcanic origin. Located in the Pacific Ocean at 27 degrees south of the equator and some 2200 miles (3600 kilometers) off the coast of Chile, it is considered to be the world’s most remote inhabited island. Sixty-three square miles in size and with three extinct volcanoes (the tallest rising to 1674 feet), the island is, technically speaking, a single massive volcano rising over ten thousand feet from the Pacific Ocean floor. The oldest known traditional name of the island is Te Pito o Te Henua, meaning ‘The Center (or Navel) of the World.’

It is now recognized that the original inhabitants of Easter Island are of Polynesian stock (DNA extracts from skeletons have confirmed this), that they most probably came from the Marquesas or Society islands, and that they arrived as early as 318 AD (carbon dating of reeds from a grave confirms this). It is estimated that the original colonists, who may have been lost at sea, arrived in only a few canoes and numbered fewer than 100. At the time of their arrival, much of the island was forested, was teeming with land birds, and was perhaps the most productive breeding site for seabirds in the Polynesia region. Because of the plentiful bird, fish and plant food sources, the human population grew and gave rise to a rich religious and artistic culture.

http://www.sacredsites.com/americas/chile/images/moai-statues-rapa-nui-500.jpg

WHERE DID ALL THE TREES GO? The history of Easter Island is rich and controversial. Its inhabitants have endured famines, epidemics, civil war, slave raids and colonialism, and the crash of their ecosystem; their population has declined precipitously more than once. In 1722 when Dutch navigator Jacob Roggeveen visited the island for a week and estimated there were 2,000 to 3,000 inhabitants on the island. The overall picture for Easter is the most extreme example of forest destruction in the Pacific, and among the most extreme in the world: the whole forest gone, and all of its tree species extinct.

There is an Island...

Floating there in Space, an Island called Earth

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/alsj/a11/AS11-44-6559.jpg

Today, there are 7.6-Billion Human Beings living there. The land-mass is only 30% of the globe, from which all must find food, living space, and resources.

Fires continue to rage in the Amazon, according to local reports.

John Cain Carter, a rancher who runs Aliança da Terra, an environmental accountability group for agricultural operators, says that the fires are the worst he has ever seen in the region.

"I have never seen fires this bad," he told mongabay.com. "The fires are even worse than in 1998´s El Niño event."

NASA satellite images released at the end of September confirm widespread burning in the Amazon state of Mato Grosso.

We are losing Earth's greatest biological treasures just as we are beginning to appreciate their true value. Rainforests once covered 14% of the earth's land surface; now they cover a mere 6% and experts estimate that the last remaining rainforests could be consumed in less than 40 years.
http://www.rain-tree.com/facts.htm

The Rainforests are the Lungs of Island Earth. Already the Oxygen percentage in the atmosphere is declining.

This destruction is so ranchers can graze more cattle, and so Oil companies can extract more oil, and the 'timber' is needed for the more and more people as the Global Over-Population continues unchecked.

Well, maybe you can see where this is leading?

That Island Earth will not "magically" grow larger to accommodate more people. Fresh resources will not drop from the sky like "manna from heaven."

The Need to LOGICALLY, RATIONALLY, HUMANELY control and reduce the Human population on Island Earth has become critical.

'Nuff said fur now. THINK.

THINK some more.

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BROOK

06-22-2009, 04:06 AM

J_rod7

06-22-2009, 04:55 AM

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My dear friend Brook,

The objective of a Rational, Logical, and Humane reduction in the Global Over-Population is NOT about "Climate Change." :wall:

It is, rather, about a sustainable level of Population where ALL resources may be shared equally. Where the Island Earth may recover to a Natural State. Where the Humans may exercise themselves in true Spiritual Evolution. There is no "Artificial" method to this. This is a Global requirement, for requiring only properly suitable couples to engage in Procreation, where families are limited to 3 children, until the total population declines naturally to less than One-Billion.

All the Spirits waiting for birth and re-birth will have their turn. :thumb_yello:

THINK some more :wall:

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J_rod7

06-22-2009, 05:31 AM

***~***~***~***~***

So we will all be on "the same Page," THIS is the Document now going out to every Organization on Island Earth, to Every Non-Government Group, to the Ambassadors of every Nation, and to the United Nations. THIS document is derived from the referenced "Petition."
~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~

TO: Concerned People on Earth. The Issue of Over-Population has become Critical

Planet Earth and its inhabitants are suffering from diverse ills caused singularly and exclusively by man himself. These already existing ills, however, will continue to proliferate until finally everything completely deteriorates.

The Earth’s population is plagued by famines, energy shortages, epidemics, environmental pollution, degeneration, terrorism, dictatorship, anarchism, slavery, excessive increase of waste materials, racial hatred, food shortages, destruction of rain forests, the “greenhouse effect”, pollution of lakes, streams and oceans, hatred towards asylum-seekers; radioactive emissions, chemical pollution of water, air, plants, food, human beings and animals.

Crime, murder, mass murders, manslaughter; alcoholism, hatred of strangers, oppression, hatred of one’s fellowman, extremism, sectarianism, drug addiction, overpopulation, annihilation of animal species, war, violence, torture and capital punishment, general mismanagement, water contamination, eradication of plant species; hatred, vice, jealousy, lovelessness, lack of logic, false humanitarianism, lack of housing, increased traffic, destruction of arable land, unemployment, the collapse of health care, the collapse of care for the elderly, destruction of nature, the collapse of solid waste removal, and the lack of living space, among others.
In spite of the many efforts, mankind’s problems are not decreasing but, instead, continue to rise steadily in direct proportion to population increases.

Mankind’s horrendous ills originate from and exist through overpopulation with its unrelenting, irresponsibly continuing escalation. The situation dictates that any ill can only be fought and remedied by grasping it by its roots, ripping it out and destroying it: The numbers of terrestrial humankind must be drastically reduced.

The only humane method by which this reduction goal can be achieved, is through stringent birth control regulations that permit married couples, of a predetermined age, to have only a strictly specified number of children.

This regulation must prevail over any excuse, argument, fear and/or stupid comment from those numbskulls who claim, for military, religious, social, egoistical, false humanitarian reasons, or those of false charity, that a large number of offspring is necessary, or that birth control is contrary to religious beliefs and is inhumane, etc. These inane claims are made singularly by rigid egotists, sectarians or people unfit to live those who have not the faintest idea of nature’s laws, directives or truthful logic.

With a current population of about 7-Billion inhabitants, the Earth is far beyond its capability to support and feed such a mass routinely, on a fundamental, natural and healthy basis. A basis, where neither human effort and intrusion into nature, the raping of nature nor the exploitation of its resources to produce more food need occur; and where no one need suffer from hunger. The truth is that Earth is a wondrous planet, but it has only the capacity to support and feed in every way and in abundance 530-Million people, One-Billion at the most.

Mankind, on the other hand, has generated a gigantic, excessive population, and is now forced to spur all vegetable and fruit production to atypical, extreme achievements through the use of chemicals and hybrids. As though this were not enough, the exploitation of the planet has accelerated dramatically, including the expansion in recovery of raw materials from the earth, and the unrelentingly rising demand from the Earth for all types of other materials a direct result of the growing overpopulation.

No one mentions the destruction of arable land due to this madness called overpopulation; no one speaks of the use of toxic chemicals, nor of the expansion of housing areas and the like. Food for human consumption is laden with chemical additives and consists these days largely of artificially produced chemicals also a fact that is not mentioned.

Overpopulation brings with it ethnic problems as well. Indeed, it actually induces them. It precipitates migration, war, bloodshed and murder. As a result of the world population’s continuing growth, people are squeezed together ever closer, and the space for each person becomes ever smaller and more restricted. For this reason can situations not be avoided whereby inhabitants of various countries, tribes, religions, convictions, opinions, philosophies and outlooks increasingly crowd together only to infringe upon each other’s personal space. Without fail, this type of close contact leads to friction, differences of opinion and arguments.

These issues, in turn, automatically generate war, bloodshed, murder and migration. The migration issue alone leads to even more excessive, vicious, worldwide problems. For example, refugees do not simply leave their familiar homesteads merely to seek new ones within their own country. Instead, they flee to foreign lands and often to countries that are financially and economically more prosperous than their own homelands.

So it transpires that tens of thousands, indeed hundreds of thousands, even millions of refugees abruptly flee their homelands and swarm into foreign, more prosperous nations. In turn, these nations become swamped with foreigners, causing almost insurmountable problems. Countries that accept these refugees are forced to expend billions of dollars that are paid for by the “host nation’s” industrious inhabitants through hard-earned funds from horrendous taxes.

These mankind’s existing major problems can only be resolved through a purposeful birth control program, by which the population is reduced to an optimum level, and scaled according to the planet. All other problem-solving measures present trite, singularly miserable, pitiful and useless attempts that barely amount to the proverbial drop in the bucket. Such problem-solving attempts only serve instead to increase all ills and difficulties even further.

Is population control barbaric, inhumane and uncharitable? No! On the contrary, for it is only when a person begins to ponder these facts logically if he or she has not done so already and come to the same truthful conclusions that he or she finds the truth coinciding with the aforementioned argument.

Only illogically thinking people, who cling to false charity and false humanitarianism, deny the truth. Such people are forced into this rut by sectarian machinations and false teachings, which cause them to grovel like dogs and rob them of all healthy, reasonable, normal and truthful thoughts, feelings and actions.

In this manner they are dominated purely by pity, self-pity, feeblemindedness and illogic, in place of feelings of empathy for all life forms. Respect for and toward true life is ultimately destroyed by the illogical thinkers, who pave the way for false humanitarianism and false charity that turn into purulent boils capable of spreading as epidemics.

Is it brutal and inhumane when the laws and directives of nature are followed? No. However, it is brutal, inhumane and uncharitable when mankind continues to cling to overpopulation, indeed even promotes it, regardless of the circumstances and consequences, in order that millions and millions of new children can be procreated.

By failing to enact stringent birth control measures for sectarian reasons and feebleminded sentimentality, man precipitates all misery and problems that will eventually become even greater and more difficult to combat, and where finally no solution or salvation will be feasible.

Required Worldwide Measures (This is just one possibility among many!):

These measures apply to everyone on Earth except for some small, native bush tribes, who have practiced their own form of stringent birth control measures since time immemorial.

Minimum age for marriage:
Female: 25 years
Male: 30 years

Minimum age to produce offspring:
Female: 28 years
Male: 33 years

Criteria for procreating:
An existing marriage of at least 3 years
Proof of a healthy, harmonious marriage
Proof of irreproachable conduct of the marriage partners
Proof of ability to raise children
Proof of health no hereditary and infectious diseases, no addiction to illegal or prescription drugs or to alcohol, etc.
No affiliation with extremist or subversive groups

Maximum number of children:
3 children per marriage

Birth control intervals:
7 years worldwide, total ban against births (first cycle interval 7 + 1)
1 year procreation consent (with permission)

7 years worldwide, total ban against births (second cycle interval 7+ 1)
1 year procreation consent (with permission )

To be carried out in this manner until the world’s population has reached a diminished and normal level of 530,000,000, or at least less than 1-Billion

Subsequently: Measures concerning the permission to marry and procreate remain in force, but the 7-year cycle of birthrate check is omitted.
To remain in force
3 children per marriage (or 3 foster/adopted children)

Penalties for violations:
Fines equivalent to 10 annual salaries for both offenders
Sterilization of both offenders
Castration of offenders involving assault or rape, etc. The offenders are segregated from society and by gender for life
The offenders’ children are taken away from the parents and raised by the state through foster/adoptive parents

Additional actions:
All persons convicted of any Felony shall undergo mandatory sterilization.
This applies to all those on “parole,” as well as those in prisons.

Brutal and inhumane (?)

What is more brutal, inhumane, and hostile to one’s fellowman and life?...

A world overpopulated by human beings, where hunger and misery, privation and brutal deaths reign; where wars, murder and bloodshed, fraud, torture and capital punishment occur daily, along with rape, crime, hatred, epidemics and destruction, vice and addiction; where hatred against all life, and extremism, lies, deceit and degeneration prevail; where millions of people perish daily, suffering horrendous pain, or succumbing to wretched deaths through torture at the hands of their tormentors and executioners, and from hunger and misery.

OR

A world with a population of average proportions, where all ills, problems and misery become relatively small and normal. A world that is not ruled by hunger and misery. A world in which the fear of war, and all evil, are reduced to the point where the likelihood of a world-unifying peace is actually feasible. This condition would bring about an end to the constant fear of the future and would pave the way to a life of love, logic and reason, among others.

Why don’t you reflect on what kind of world you would like to live in. Does genuine, sincere humanitarianism, love, charity and truth not surpass all false humanitarianism, false charity and lies? Above all ask yourself: “In what type of world do I want my children and my children’s children to live?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(Based on a text) by Billy Eduard A. Meier.
More detailed explanations:
http://us.figu.org/portal/SocialIssues/ACrusadeAgainstOverpopulation/tabid/102/Default.aspx

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

***~***~***~***~***

RaKaR

06-22-2009, 05:48 AM

Greetings BROOK, J_rod7, Traverser, Seashore and all the others,

Your contributions are highly appreciated.

Now then.
BROOK, you ask, i quote:
"Please answer this...HOW do they plan on achieving this?

I also must say...there is politics all over this article....pure POLITICS
I keep hearing from you there is this critical need to lower the population....just exactly how do they plan on doing this?"

First of all, let me state that politics is an inner part of Human societies living in republics - 'res publicum', the public thing.
So, i really do not see the relevance of this specific point.

To the kern of your question: "Please answer this...HOW do they plan on achieving this?"

The answer is BY EDUCATING FELLOW HUMANS on the need to openly talk on, address this issue, by lifting the taboo on Human reproduction and promoting awareness on the threat of overpopulation on the sustainability and security of and on this planet and ultimately by advocating WORLD WIDE, DEMOCRATIC AND SCIENTIFIC BIRTH CONTROL.

Do see the CONTENT OF THE STATEMENT AND 'THE WAY THEY PLAN TO ACHIEVE THIS':

"2. We recommend that the United Nations and intergovernmental organisations, governments, and non-governmental environment and development bodies should:

A. Recognise and acknowledge the factual truth of these statements.

B. Support, fund or ensure universal access to family planning worldwide, as agreed at the 1994 Cairo Conference and in Millennium Development Goal 5 for 2012.

D. Adopt non-coercive policies to stabilise or reduce populations at or to sustainable levels, including planning for an ageing population.

E. Take firm measures, especially in high-consuming regions, to promote the reduction of per capita resource depletion and environmental degradation.

June, 2009"

We welcome critical, open, argumentative discussions on the substance of the matter.

Thanks.

RaKaR

06-22-2009, 06:03 AM

And again, BROOK, you wrote:
"The real “population change” we need to focus on is not artificially reducing human numbers. Rather, it is about winning real democratic change, i.e. dramatically increasing the numbers of ordinary people who can participate in making decisions about investment in green industries, agriculture, global trade and military spending.
Population control narrowly looks only at the quantity of human beings to find a solution to climate change. Ultimately, its narrow vision makes it a divisive policy."

I ask you back, how could Fellow Humans possibly take part to decisionmaking and aspire to higher ideals(spirituality, eventually, ascension...) if their whole existence is a mere fight for survival, for food and clean water also because of our sheer number and the impact of this colossal number of Mother earth? - i invite you here to critically study the following reports:
http://www.care2.com/causes/global-w...arming-report/
http://www.theage.com.au/environment...0619-cmcs.html

Truly, BROOK, also 'ordinary people' need correct feeding, education, health care and the possibility to aspire to and achieve real Human Existence, that is in spirituality and with dignity.

Namaste.

Humble Janitor

06-22-2009, 06:29 AM

:welcomeani:Monday January 26, 2009

Demographic Winter: "Schools will be turned into nursing homes. Playgrounds will become graveyards."

By John-Henry Westen

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/images/Persons/DonFeder.jpgWASHINGTON, DC, January 26, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Celebrated columnist and pro-family leader Don Feder gave a jaw-dropping presentation on the coming 'Demographic Winter' at the Rose Dinner which closes the official March for Life festivities every year. Speaking to hundreds of attendees, Feder suggested that the demographic problem of worldwide declining birthrates "could result in the greatest crisis humanity will confront in this century" as "all over the world, children are disappearing."

"In the Western world, birthrates are falling and populations are aging," said Feder. "The consequences for your children and grandchildren could well be catastrophic."

Feder noted, "In 30 years, worldwide, birth rates have fallen by more than 50%. In 1979, the average woman on this planet had 6 children. Today, the average is 2.9 children, and falling." He explained the situation noting, "demographers tell us that with a birthrate of 1.3, everything else being equal, a nation will lose half of its population every 45 years."
Beyond an inability to pay for pensions, it is likely that euthanasia will be one looked-to solution to the aging crisis, he said.

"Demographic Winter is the terminal stage in the suicide of the West - the culmination of a century of evil ideas and poisonous policies,'" he said. Among them he listed:

"Abortion - As I mentioned a moment ago, worldwide, we're killing 42 million people a year. It's as if an invading army killed every man woman and child in Italy - then repeated the process every year.

"Contraception - For the first time in history, just under half the world's population of childbearing age uses some form of birth control. Some of us remember when births weren't controlled and pregnancies weren't planned. With all the wailing about man-made Global Warming, carbon footprints and the ozone layer, wouldn't it be ironic if what did us in wasn't the SUV but the IUD?

"Delayed marriage. People are marrying later and later. After 35, it becomes progressively harder for a woman to have children.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/images/2009a/DemographicWinter.jpg"The decline of marriage and the rise of cohabitation. Not surprisingly, in relationships without commitment, people have fewer children. By the way, the left's contribution to the coming population crisis is to push the one type of ‘marriage’ (and I use the term advisedly) that can't conceivably produce children.

"But perhaps,” he concluded, “the most important factor is a culture (including Hollywood, the news media and academia) that tells people that children are a burden, rather than a joy; that pushes an ego-driven, live-for-the-moment ethic; a culture that tells us that contentment comes from careers, love, friendship, pets, possessions, travel, personal growth - anything and everything except family and children. It's a culture that can look at Sarah Palin and her beautiful family and ask why she had to have 5 children and why she didn't abort her child with Downs syndrome."

For more see the first documentary on the plummeting birth rate:
"Demographic Winter: the decline of the human family"
http://www.demographicwinter.com (http://www.demographicwinter.com/)

** See the full text of Feder's talk here **
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2009_docs/DonFederRoseDinnerspeech.pdf

The problem with this article is that it only focuses on the West and ignores problems in poorer parts of the world, where there isn't enough education on family planning.

I personally don't agree with abortion (but I do not advocate banning it either) and it could be avoided if people used contraceptives properly and planned their families better. It's possible to have a large, healthy family.

Which brings me to my next point: With wages falling or remaining stagnant and the cost of living increasing, it becomes harder to support a family on the wages that can be gathered.

RaKaR

06-22-2009, 07:37 AM

Hi Humble Janitor,

BROOK,
Don Feder? - interesting source, indeed.

Allow me to use your method:

- http://www.donfeder.com/
- http://www.humanevents.com/search.php?author_name=Don+Feder

Just 'google' the name; the results of the research are pretty interesting.

Have a nice day.

Namaste.

metaw3

07-10-2009, 04:57 PM

Interesting thread. I haven't read it all yet. Overpopulation is relative to how we live on the planet. Right now it is overpopulated. Any other species would have been brought back into balance with Nature. Education is the long term solution. Short time solution is... I'm against control by force with laws and law enforcement. This kind of control only leads to less education and a need for more control in an endless cycle. I guess the short time solution is coming soon to a theater near you.

Richie

07-20-2009, 05:29 AM

Abortions,birth controll,murder,executions are not in the "Big" plan.REgardless of how or when we die we will keep coming back,over and over.Breeding triggers genetic progressions.Only the strong survive,is a very old miitary motto.However,It is true for the spiritual and the physical.No one can stop the cycles.I am an aquarian and I will come back the next time an aquarian untill I learn compassion.I have very little of that except for the under dog and even that is limited.Everyone knows their own faults,we think of them so often.offspring are so very important."""""""""""

Richie

07-20-2009, 05:31 AM

Jesus died and came back.Please don't take this lightly.

RaKaR

09-10-2009, 07:38 AM

"Perhaps a hopeful sign ?" - thus Michael Horn:

'Contraception cheapest way to combat climate change'

By Richard Pindar
Published: 12:05PM BST 09 Sep 2009

"Contraception is almost five times cheaper as a means of preventing climate change than conventional green technologies, according to research by the London School of Economics.
Every £4 spent on family planning over the next four decades would reduce global CO2 emissions by more than a ton, whereas a minimum of £19 would have to be spent on low-carbon technologies to achieve the same result, the research says.

The report, Fewer Emitter, Lower Emissions, Less Cost, concludes that family planning should be seen as one of the primary methods of emissions reduction. The UN estimates that 40 per cent of all pregnancies worldwide are unintended. " [...]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/6161742/Contraception-cheapest-way-to-combat-climate-change.html

Amen!

Salome.

RaKaR

09-22-2009, 01:51 PM

Population growth driving climate change, poverty: experts

Sep 21 01:41 PM US/Eastern

"Unchecked population growth is speeding climate change, damaging
life-nurturing ecosystems and dooming many countries to poverty,
experts concluded in a conference report released Monday.

Unless birth rates are lowered sharply through voluntary
family-planning programmes and easy access to contraceptives, the
tally of humans on Earth could swell to an unsustainable 11 billion by
2050, they warned." [...]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.506b7104e85d35fc4f8355e566ab5fa d.261&show_article=1

Namaste.

mntruthseeker

09-22-2009, 02:49 PM

the real “population change” we need to focus on is not artificially reducing human numbers. Rather, it is about winning real democratic change, i.e. Dramatically increasing the numbers of ordinary people who can participate in making decisions about investment in green industries, agriculture, global trade and military spending.
Population control narrowly looks only at the quantity of human beings to find a solution to climate change. Ultimately, its narrow vision makes it a divisive policy.

exactly

happyhollergal

09-23-2009, 04:36 AM

I agree that family planning is a great thing to promote, but I will not sign a petition like this. I will say that I would not be here today had my paternal grandmother not given birth to 13 children, my father being the last of those. My maternal grandmother had 8 children, my mother being the last. I realize that that was back in the day when most children grew up on a farm, and their extra hands kept things going. I had 3 children of my own, and you couldn't pay me to have another even if I could, but I've been given 5 grandbabies that I cherish. It gives me chills to think that humanity would be prevented from the joy that children bring to our lives because some group believes that "their" planet is being destroyed because children are being born. This earth is our home, but it is not ours to pick and choose which souls, or how many of them, are permitted to inhabit this land.

KathyT

09-23-2009, 04:53 AM

The real “population change” we need to focus on is not artificially reducing human numbers. Rather, it is about winning real democratic change, i.e. dramatically increasing the numbers of ordinary people who can participate in making decisions about investment in green industries, agriculture, global trade and military spending.

What in the heck is "winning real democratic change", and how does that do a darn thing towards making our planet stable?

The biggest problem our earth has is unchecked overpopulation. I consider myself lucky to live in a country where the birth rate is no where near some other countries. United States has about 14.18 births per 1000 per year, we’re ranked 151 on a list of 221 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=25 What is chilling is to realize there are 3.8 times the number of people living in India as the U.S., and 4.3 times the number of people living in China as the U.S. There are 1.3 Billion people living in China!!

Want to know where people live? Check it out here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

I think the biggest problem facing our world is over-population. In fifty years (50), our world went from 2.5 Billion, to 6.7 Billion, that is a 2.6 fold increase.

Think ahead. What does this mean for our grandchildren? What will it be like for them to be living 50 years from now? What will the world be like if the 6.7 Billion nearly triples to 15 Billion? Can you even image what problems our planet would face with 15 Billion living on it? Where would enough food be grown? Where would there be enough natural resources? Clean Water. Forests for wood. Agriculture land for growing food. Look what is projected for our supply of minerals: http://flowingdata.com/2009/04/24/how-long-will-the-worlds-natural-resources-last/
http://www.cavemanforecaster.com/2009/04/worlds-natural-resource-depletion.html
Where will we have enough DUMP sites to put our garbage???

If you’re thinking “oh, we’ll stop this increase before we get to 50 years in the future”… think again. Where is there one piece of evidence we have stopped any of this world’s growth in the past 50 years?

The crisis’s we’re facing today are because not enough of us are concerned about too high of a birth rate.
Much of everything else we worry about pales in comparison to what problems are occurring because of increasing population.

Count me at the front of the line to sign that petition!

This YouTube gives a real easy to understand explanation of what our increasing population trend is doing to us:

The Most IMPORTANT Video You'll Ever See (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-QA2rkpBSY&feature=related)

BROOK

09-23-2009, 05:08 AM

I take it you you stand on the same side of the fence as this guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClqUcScwnn8

BROOK

09-23-2009, 05:17 AM

Population Control, Nazis, and the U.N!
by Anton Chaitkin

ROCKEFELLER AND MASS MURDER

The Rockefeller Foundation is the prime sponsor of public relations for the United Nations' drastic depopulation program. Evidence in the possession of a growing number of researchers in America, England, and Germany demonstrates that the Foundation and its corporate, medical, and political associates organized the racial mass murder program of Nazi Germany.

These globalists, who function as a conduit for British Empire geopolitics, were not stopped after World War II. This United Nations alliance of the old Nazi right, with the new left, poses an even graver danger to the world today than it did in 1941.

Oil monopolist John D. Rockefeller created the family-run Rockefeller Foundation in 1909. By 1929 he had placed $300 million worth of the family's controlling interest in the Standard Oil Company of New Jersey (now called ``Exxon'') to the account of the Foundation.

The Foundation's money created the medical specialty known as Psychiatric Genetics. For the new experimental field, the Foundation reorganized medical teaching in Germany, creating and thenceforth continuously directing the ``Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Psychiatry'' and the ``Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Eugenics and Human Heredity.'' The Rockefellers' chief executive of these institutions was the fascist Swiss psychiatrist Ernst Rudin, assisted by his proteges Otmar Verschuer and Franz J. Kallmann.

In 1932, the British-led ``Eugenics'' movement designated the Rockefellers' Dr. Rudin as the president of the worldwide Eugenics Federation. The movement called for the killing or sterilization of people whose heredity made them a public burden.
The Racial Laws -

A few months later, Hitler took over Germany and the Rockefeller-Rudin apparatus became a section of the Nazi state. The regime appointed Rudin head of the Racial Hygiene Society. Rudin and his staff, as part of the Task Force of Heredity Experts chaired by SS chief Heinrich Himmler, drew up the sterilization law. Described as an American Model law, it was adopted in July 1933 and proudly printed in the September 1933 Eugenical News (USA) with Hitler's signature. The Rockefeller group drew up other race laws, also based on existing Virginia statutes. Otmar Verschuer and his assistant Josef Mengele together wrote reports for special courts which enforced Rudin's racial purity law against cohabitation of Aryans and non-Aryans.

The ``T4'' unit of the Hitler Chancery, based on psychiatrists led by Rudin and his staff, cooperated in creating propaganda films to sell mercy killing (euthanasia) to German citizens. The public reacted antagonistically: Hitler had to withdraw a tear-jerker right-to-die film from the movie theaters. The proper groundwork had not yet been laid.

Under the Nazis, the German chemical company I.G. Farben and Rockefeller's Standard Oil of New Jersey were effectively a single firm, merged in hundreds of cartel arrangements. I.G. Farben was led, up until 1937, by the Warburg family, Rockefeller's partner in banking and in the design of Nazi German eugenics. Following the German invasion of Poland in 1939, Standard Oil pledged to keep the merger with I.G. Farben going even if the U.S. entered the war. This was exposed in 1942 by Sen. Harry Truman's investigating committee, and President Roosevelt took hundreds of legal measures during the war to stop the Standard-I.G. Farben cartel from supplying the enemy war machine.

Population Control, Nazis, and the U.N!
by Anton Chaitkin

ROCKEFELLER AND MASS MURDER

The Rockefeller Foundation is the prime sponsor of public relations for the United Nations' drastic depopulation program. Evidence in the possession of a growing number of researchers in America, England, and Germany demonstrates that the Foundation and its corporate, medical, and political associates organized the racial mass murder program of Nazi Germany.

These globalists, who function as a conduit for British Empire geopolitics, were not stopped after World War II. This United Nations alliance of the old Nazi right, with the new left, poses an even graver danger to the world today than it did in 1941.

Oil monopolist John D. Rockefeller created the family-run Rockefeller Foundation in 1909. By 1929 he had placed $300 million worth of the family's controlling interest in the Standard Oil Company of New Jersey (now called ``Exxon'') to the account of the Foundation.

The Foundation's money created the medical specialty known as Psychiatric Genetics. For the new experimental field, the Foundation reorganized medical teaching in Germany, creating and thenceforth continuously directing the ``Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Psychiatry'' and the ``Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Eugenics and Human Heredity.'' The Rockefellers' chief executive of these institutions was the fascist Swiss psychiatrist Ernst Rudin, assisted by his proteges Otmar Verschuer and Franz J. Kallmann.

In 1932, the British-led ``Eugenics'' movement designated the Rockefellers' Dr. Rudin as the president of the worldwide Eugenics Federation. The movement called for the killing or sterilization of people whose heredity made them a public burden.

- The Racial Laws -

A few months later, Hitler took over Germany and the Rockefeller-Rudin apparatus became a section of the Nazi state. The regime appointed Rudin head of the Racial Hygiene Society. Rudin and his staff, as part of the Task Force of Heredity Experts chaired by SS chief Heinrich Himmler, drew up the sterilization law. Described as an American Model law, it was adopted in July 1933 and proudly printed in the September 1933 Eugenical News (USA) with Hitler's signature. The Rockefeller group drew up other race laws, also based on existing Virginia statutes. Otmar Verschuer and his assistant Josef Mengele together wrote reports for special courts which enforced Rudin's racial purity law against cohabitation of Aryans and non-Aryans.

The ``T4'' unit of the Hitler Chancery, based on psychiatrists led by Rudin and his staff, cooperated in creating propaganda films to sell mercy killing (euthanasia) to German citizens. The public reacted antagonistically: Hitler had to withdraw a tear-jerker right-to-die film from the movie theaters. The proper groundwork had not yet been laid.

Under the Nazis, the German chemical company I.G. Farben and Rockefeller's Standard Oil of New Jersey were effectively a single firm, merged in hundreds of cartel arrangements. I.G. Farben was led, up until 1937, by the Warburg family, Rockefeller's partner in banking and in the design of Nazi German eugenics. Following the German invasion of Poland in 1939, Standard Oil pledged to keep the merger with I.G. Farben going even if the U.S. entered the war. This was exposed in 1942 by Sen. Harry Truman's investigating committee, and President Roosevelt took hundreds of legal measures during the war to stop the Standard-I.G. Farben cartel from supplying the enemy war machine.

In 1940-41, I.G. Farben built a gigantic factory at Auschwitz in Poland, to utilize the Standard Oil/I.G. Farben patents with concentration camp slave labor to make gasoline from coal. The SS was assigned to guard the Jewish and other inmates and select for killing those who were unfit for I.G. Farben slave labor. Standard-Germany president Emil Helfferich testified after the war that Standard Oil funds helped pay for SS guards at Auschwitz.

In 1940, six months after the notorious Standard-I.G. meeting, European Rockefeller Foundation official Daniel O'Brian wrote to the Foundation's chief medical officer Alan Gregg that ``it would be unfortunate if it was chosen to stop research which has no relation to war issues''--so the Foundation continued financing Nazi ``psychiatric research'' during the war.

In 1936, Rockefeller's Dr. Franz Kallmann interrupted his study of hereditary degeneracy and emigrated to America because he was half-Jewish. Kallmann went to New York and established the Medical Genetics Department of the New York State Psychiatric Institute. The Scottish Rite of Freemasonry published Kallman's study of over 1,000 cases of schizophrenia, which tried to prove its hereditary basis. In the book, Kallmann thanked his long-time boss and mentor Rudin. Kallmann's book, published in 1938 in the USA and Nazi Germany, was used by the T4 unit as a rationalization to begin in 1939 the murder of mental patients and various ``defective'' people, perhaps most of them children. Gas and lethal injections were used to kill 250,000 under this program, in which the staffs for a broader murder program were desensitized and trained.

- Dr. Mengele... -

In 1943, Otmar Verschuer's assistant Josef Mengele was made medical commandant of Auschwitz. As wartime director of Rockefeller's Kaiser Wilhelm Institute for Anthropology, Eugenics and Human Heredity in Berlin, Verschuer secured funds for Mengele's experiments at Auschwitz from the German Research Council. Verschuer wrote a progress report to the Council: ``My co-researcher in this research is my assistant the anthropologist and physician Mengele. He is serving as Hauptstuermfuehrer and camp doctor in the concentration camp Auschwitz.... With the permission of the Reichsfuehrer SS Himmler, anthropological research is being undertaken on the various racial groups in the concentration camps and blood samples will be sent to my laboratory for investigation.''
Mengele prowled the railroad lines leading into Auschwitz, looking for twins--a favorite subject of psychiatric geneticists. On arrival at Mengele's experimental station, twins filled out ``a detailed questionnaire from the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute.'' There were daily drawings of blood for Verschuer's ``specific protein'' research. Needles were injected into eyes for work on eye color. There were experimental blood transfusions and infections. Organs and limbs were removed, sometimes without anesthetics. Sex changes were attempted. Females were sterilized, males were castrated. Thousands were murdered and their organs, eyeballs, heads, and limbs were sent to Verschuer and the Rockefeller group at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute.

In 1946, Verschuer wrote to the Bureau of Human Heredity in London, asking for help in continuing his ``scientific research.''

- Facelift -
In 1947, the Bureau of Human Heredity moved from London to Copenhagen. The new Danish building for this was built with Rockefeller money. The first International Congress in Human Genetics following World War II was held at this Danish institute in 1956. By that time, Verschuer was a member of the American Eugenics Society, then indistinguishable from Rockefeller's Population Council.

Dr. Kallmann helped save Verschuer by testifying in his denazification proceedings. Dr. Kallmann created the American Society of Human Genetics, which organized the ``Human Genome Project''--a current $3 billion physical multiculturalism effort. Kallmann was a director of the American Eugenics Society in 1952 and from 1954 to 1965.

In the 1950s, the Rockefellers reorganized the U.S. eugenics movement in their own family offices, with spinoff population-control and abortion groups. The Eugenics Society changed its name to the Society for the Study of Social Biology, its current name.

The Rockefeller Foundation had long financed the eugenics movement in England, apparently repaying Britain for the fact that British capital and an Englishman-partner had started old John D. Rockefeller out in his Oil Trust. In the 1960s, the Eugenics Society of England adopted what they called Crypto-eugenics, stating in their official reports that they would do eugenics through means and instruments not labeled as eugenics.

With support from the Rockefellers, the Eugenics Society (England) set up a sub-committee called the International Planned Parenthood Federation, which for 12 years had no other address than the Eugenics Society. This, then, is the private, international apparatus which has set the world up for a global holocaust, under the UN flag.

[For more information about the Planned Parenthood and Rockefeller connection to AIDS and disinformation campaigns, read the book "Emerging Viruses: AIDS & Ebola--Nature, Accident or Intentional?" by Dr. Leonard Horowitz (Tetrahedron, LLC Press, 1996).]

http://www.tetrahedron.org/articles/new_world_order/UN_Rockefeller_Genocide.html

Who needs population control....we have the swine flue vaccine :nono:

BROOK

09-23-2009, 05:27 AM

What in the heck is "winning real democratic change", and how does that do a darn thing towards making our planet stable?

You have to seriously ask that question to that statement? Do you not think that will make for more stability? I sure do...and I believe anyone who is awake feels the same

KathyT

09-23-2009, 05:45 AM

You have to seriously ask that question to that statement? Do you not think that will make for more stability? I sure do...and I believe anyone who is awake feels the same

I do NOT think stability is achieved through “REAL” democratic change. What in the heck is “real”? If it is anything at all, it is a subjective concept.

Slowing down growth rate is the only way to achieve balance and stability.

You can slow down the birth rate in a heard of cattle, or rabbits, by preventing pregnancies in the cows or rabbits. It is as simple as that. Cows and rabbits don’t do it through ‘democratic change’.

In the wilderness... overcrowding or overpopulation leads to starvation when the food supplies are gone. And that is happening in some nations like Uganda and Niger and will continue to happen.

Luminari

09-23-2009, 05:52 AM

other countries. United States has about 14.18 births per 1000 per year, we’re ranked 151 on a list of 221 http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=25

My god! The entire top 50 are almost entirely from Africa.

What are these people thinking (or not thinking) ?!

Disease, poverty and war are rampant... there is not enough food to feed everyone. And these people are pumping out children like its going out of style.

Out of pure selfishness, so they will have private slaves to do their own chores.

People consciously choosing to bring a child into incarnation under these circumstances are irresponsible abusers.

I remember a quote from Thom Hartman's "The Prophets Way" where he was doing tireless humanitarian work helping starving children in Uganda.

Someone said a very sad joke to him - "What do you get when you feed 1000 starving Ugandans? - 10,000 Starving Ugandans."

Though in the context of this discussion is important to remember that these disadvantaged African people aren't really contributing to global bio-sphere destruction anywhere near the levels of the obese American pig-nation (sorry guys but its true) who probably waste more food in a year than these unfortunates will ever see.

Difficult topic!! no easy solutions. Education, education, education.

Lets hope we shift into 4D 100% and this problem resolves peacefully in ways that maybe we cannot conceive right now.

Both sides have valid points here (even Dr Evil himself; David Rockerfeller).

Lets take Bill Hicks advice and use our advanced military applications to feed the hungry; something to the effect of: "Look! there's a guy who is hungry, lets bomb him with food parcels - STEALTH BANANA."

happyhollergal

09-23-2009, 05:53 AM

BROOK

09-23-2009, 05:56 AM

KathyT

09-23-2009, 06:03 AM

Hove you taken a look at the source for those facts?
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=25

Source: CIA World Factbook (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/) - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of January 1, 2008

Down at the bottom of the page...

Means nothing Brook. I could have given quite a few references to world populations and world birth rates. Do a browser search yourself, you should be able to find dozens.

Luminari

09-23-2009, 06:04 AM

Hove you taken a look at the source for those facts?
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=25

Source: CIA World Factbook (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/) - Unless otherwise noted, information in this page is accurate as of January 1, 2008

Down at the bottom of the page...

What's wrong with that?

I'm a big fan of the the World Factbook, its about the only good thing the CIA does and its available to anyone globally.

:zip:

Luminari

09-23-2009, 06:11 AM

I'm in awe of the number of self described "enlightened" beings, who are in fact, mouthpieces for the new world order, vomiting out what they've been taught, while they believe that it's in the best interest of humanity. Are people aware that they've been duped, and are promoting the exact agendas that Rockefeller/Rothschild followers dream of? How greedy and selfish can you be, to wish away the lives of others so that your offspring will benefit in the future?

And, thanks for posting that article Brook. I enjoyed the read.

You're way out of line, I don't see anyone doing that here.

What tangible solutions would you propose to save the destruction of our Earth and preserve the beautiful animal species that are being driven daily to extinction?

How greedy and selfish can you be, to wish away the lives of others so that your offspring will benefit in the future?

KathyT

09-23-2009, 06:12 AM

My god! The entire top 50 are almost entirely from Africa.

What are these people thinking (or not thinking) ?!

Disease, poverty and war are rampant... there is not enough food to feed everyone. And these people are pumping out children like its going out of style.

People consciously choosing to bring a child into incarnation under these circumstances are irresponsible abusers.

Difficult topic!! no easy solutions. Education, education, education.

Luminari, I appreciate your wise thoughts.
I have a good friend who returned from a trip to Africa.

I don’t see myself ever having the opportunity to go to Africa. In fact, I don’t see a darn thing I could do to change the situation in Africa, except for paying my taxes which America may use to hand out condoms or birth control pills in Africa.

My friend says the situation in Africa is worse than reported on the news. AIDS is rampant. She also says much of the African culture there promotes promiscuity of children (that’s child abuse in my book), and they believe AIDS is not passed through sex.

Will education ever get through to them? I do not know the answer to this one.

BROOK

09-23-2009, 06:19 AM

Well..I've made my opinion clear throughout this thread..and cannot say much more...except there are people dying every day...and the rate will only increase as the PTB have an agenda...and until we decide to wake up..they will continue to increase that rate...count on it.

My true feeling for the final time is that there is more then enough room on this earth...if we take control back from the PTB..start living in respect of the earth...like the Native American Indians did, the "keepers" of this planet.

Respect the water and know it is sacred..and preserve the earth.

I firmly believe there is MORE then enough room and then some for population growth...but not the way we are treating it now.....and the truth is even if we had half the population...we are still trashing this world..and that is the real problem

BROOK

09-23-2009, 06:25 AM

Will education ever get through to them?

Are you saying their just too stupid?

BROOK

09-23-2009, 06:28 AM

'm a big fan of the the World Factbook, its about the only good thing the CIA does and its available to anyone globally.

You don't think those facts can be a little tainted?

What about death rates.....wars, starvation....on don't get me started on starvation....there is no excuse for it....humanity needs a reality check...the money we spend on wars every year would feed the world

Luminari

09-23-2009, 06:35 AM

Are you saying their just too stupid?

No one has cornered the market on stupidity.

Its a global affliction.

Though the Vatican has alot to answer for...

There... I've said it.

ROOT CAUSE OF GLOBAL SUFFERING:

Superstitious ignorance imposed on us.
False teachings.
Guilt.
Manipulation.

The whole domino chain will come down when we break the Vatican death-grip.

BROOK

09-23-2009, 06:42 AM

Population control has been around since the middle ages ... and so have the PTB

Ancient Times through Middle Ages

A number of ancient writers have reflected on the issue of population. At about 300 BC in India Kautilya, a political philosopher (c. 350-283 BC), considered population as a source of political, economic, and military strength. Though a given region can house too many or too few people, Kautilya considered the latter possibility to be the greater evil. Kautilya favored the remarriage of widows (which at the time was forbidden in India), opposed taxes that encourage emigration, and believed that asceticism should be restricted to the aged.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_control

Luminari..you bring up the Vatican....another controlling faction

I stand on what I said before....
The real “population change” we need to focus on is not artificially reducing human numbers. Rather, it is about winning real democratic change, i.e. dramatically increasing the numbers of ordinary people who can participate in making decisions about investment in green industries, agriculture, global trade and military spending.
Population control narrowly looks only at the quantity of human beings to find a solution to climate change. Ultimately, its narrow vision makes it a divisive policy.

KathyT

09-23-2009, 06:45 AM

No one has cornered the market on stupidity.

Its a global affliction.

Though the Vatican has alot to answer for...

There... I've said it.

ROOT CAUSE OF GLOBAL SUFFERING:

Superstitious ignorance imposed on us.
False teachings.
Guilt.
Manipulation.

The whole domino chain will come down when we break the Vatican death-grip.

Ditto.

They're one, but there are other fanatical religions and cultures in this world as well. Too much guilt and manipulation in most of them, I say.

BROOK

09-23-2009, 06:46 AM

Oh yeah...the centering of population control in Africa.....There have been rumors abundant on how the PTB want to take total control of Africa...for resources...global dominance once in control...this has been in the pipes for some time now...so why not center focus on Africa..and create political strife and death at every turn...only to take control and dominate yet another continent :nono:

Why not plant a huge AIDS epidemic..and let it run it's course

KathyT

09-23-2009, 06:49 AM

Population control has been around since the middle ages ... and so have the PTB

To my knowledge, there was not family planning, condoms, and prescription birth control in the middle ages.

Perhaps the birth control of the middle ages was a gun to the head? What else could you mean?

BROOK

09-23-2009, 06:49 AM

Are you saying their just too stupid?

This question was for you Kathyt...are you saying Africans are just too stupid?

BROOK

09-23-2009, 06:57 AM

What tangible solutions would you propose to save the destruction of our Earth and preserve the beautiful animal species that are being driven daily to extinction?

Lose the PTB, and start working on cleaning up....working on free energy...that's probably already available....building an eco friendly world...that's the answer.

KathyT

09-23-2009, 07:04 AM

This question was for you Kathyt...are you saying Africans are just too stupid?

I would suggest that you don't put words in my mouth.

I raised the question, will education ever solve the problems in Africa?

History repeats itself over and over and over.

My personal friends who have been to Africa, and there are several, all tell of the dismay they see in the culture of many of the natives.

There is NOTHING I can do to change their culture. They have to do it for themselves. They have to be responsible for themselves. I am not willing to give them a handout. I am only willing to give them a helping hand. They have to do the rest themselves. They have to make the effort. That is true for every individual on this planet.

BROOK

09-23-2009, 07:08 AM

To my knowledge, there was not family planning, condoms, and prescription birth control in the middle ages.

Perhaps the birth control of the middle ages was a gun to the head? What else could you mean?

I mean there have been people predicting over population since the middle ages....nothing new...and certainly not new now.

and look...a religious figure...surprise:lol3:

The Reverend Thomas Robert Malthus FRS (13 February 1766 – 23 December 1834),[1] was a British scholar, influential in political economy and demography.[2][3] Malthus popularised the economic theory of rent.[4]

Malthus has become widely known for his analysis whereby societal improvements result in population growth which, he states, sooner or later gets checked by famine, disease, and widespread mortality. He wrote in the context of the popular view, in 18th century Europe, that saw society as improving, and in principle as perfectible.[5] William Godwin and the Marquis de Condorcet, for example, believed in the possibility of almost limitless improvement of society. So, in a more complex way, did Jean-Jacques Rousseau, whose notions centered on the goodness of man and the liberty of citizens bound only by the social contract, a form of popular sovereignty.

Malthus saw such ideas of endless progress towards a utopian society as vitiated because of the dangers of population growth: "The power of population is indefinitely greater than the power in the earth to produce subsistence for man".[6] As an Anglican clergyman, Malthus saw this situation as divinely imposed to teach virtuous behaviour.[7] Believing that one could not change human nature, and that egalitarian societies were prone to over-population[citation needed], Malthus wrote in dramatic terms: "epidemics, pestilence and plague advance in terrific array, and sweep off their thousands and ten thousands. Should success be still incomplete, gigantic famine stalks in the rear, and with one mighty blow, levels the population with the food of the world".[8]

Malthus placed the longer-term stability of the economy above short-term expediency. He criticised the Poor Laws,[9] and (alone among important contemporary economists) supported the Corn Laws, which introduced a system of taxes on British imports of wheat. He thought these measures would encourage domestic production, and so promote long-term benefit.[10]

Malthus became hugely influential, and controversial, in economic, political, social and scientific thought. Many of those whom subsequent centuries sometimes term "evolutionary biologists" also read him,[11] notably Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace, for each of whom Malthusianism became an intellectual stepping-stone to the idea of natural selection.[12][13] Malthus remains a writer of great significance, and debate continues as to whether his direst expectations will come about.

BROOK

09-23-2009, 07:12 AM

There is NOTHING I can do to change their culture. They have to do it for themselves. They have to be responsible for themselves. I am not willing to give them a handout. I am only willing to give them a helping hand. They have to do the rest themselves. They have to make the effort. That is true for every individual on this planet.

These people fight political repression every day of their lives...at every turn...they don't want your handout...they want a chance to survive

KathyT

09-23-2009, 07:12 AM

Lose the PTB, and start working on cleaning up....working on free energy...that's probably already available....building an eco friendly world...that's the answer.

Just WHO is this PTB that you're talking about? Give me names, hundreds of names.

You act like everyone in the government is bad, and you want to dismantle every bit of government. Talk about total lawlessness occurring and breakdown of society! That would occur if you dismantle government.

And how are you going to measure when you've got this "PTB" dismantled? I'm just curious to know who I am to expect to go away, so that I can then say, the "PTB" are gone.

BROOK

09-23-2009, 07:17 AM

Just WHO is this PTB that you're talking about? Give me names, hundreds of names.

You act like everyone in the government is bad, and you want to dismantle every bit of government. Talk about total lawlessness occurring and breakdown of society! That would occur if you dismantle government.

And how are you going to measure when you've got this "PTB" dismantled? I'm just curious to know who I am to expect to go away, so that I can then say, the "PTB" are gone.

Kathy if you don't know by now...I'm sure you'll figure it out soon enough

KathyT

09-23-2009, 07:18 AM

These people fight political repression every day of their lives...at every turn...they don't want your handout...they want a chance to survive

Actually, you might want to look at South Africa. The blacks have taken land away from owners who were successfully farming the land, and productive farms are being ruined. Farms which could feed people. Tell me that is smart. It is not smart, it is stupid.
http://www.africancrisis.org/default2.asp

Brook, I am sorry to say, I don't think you have a clue about Africa.

And you weren't able to give me a measuring stick for knowing when "the PTB will be gone".

BROOK

09-23-2009, 07:19 AM

Actually, you might want to look at South Africa. The blacks have taken land away from owners who were successfully farming the land, and productive farms are being ruined. Farms which could feed people. Tell me that is smart.
http://www.africancrisis.org/default2.asp

The blacks?

That is a propaganda rag..there is a section down at the bottom of raciest jokes

http://www.africancrisis.org/default2.asp

BROOK

09-23-2009, 07:29 AM

And you weren't able to give me a measuring stick for knowing when "the PTB will be gone".

All you have to do Kathy is read this forum...you will know who the PTB are :thumb_yello:

BROOK

09-23-2009, 07:39 AM

Brook, I am sorry to say, I don't think you have a clue about Africa.I work for and do fund raiser for Living Compassion.....for a group of BLACK Africans who don't want a handout..they want a chance to take care of them selves...and this community is doing it

http://www.livingcompassion.org/africa/kantolomba_about.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FXEWrFKSq0

and here is the child I sponsor

http://www.livingcompassion.org/africa/images/kids/lonica-bwalya-6.jpg
Lonica Bwalya
Dear Brook,

Thank you for sponsoring Lonica Bwalya in support of the Kantolomba
Project in Ndola, Zambia. Attached is a PDF of a one-page document we
created to assist folks in their fundraising efforts for Bridge Walk
2009. Please feel free to contact us with any further questions.

We are grateful for your participation.

In lovingkindness,
Living Compassion
transforming lives, ending suffering

This is what I do about things that bother me and I feel needs change...

What do you do about what bothers you Kathyt?

BROOK

09-23-2009, 08:18 AM

Actually, you might want to look at South Africa. The blacks have taken land away from owners who were successfully farming the land, and productive farms are being ruined. Farms which could feed people. Tell me that is smart. It is not smart, it is stupid.
http://www.africancrisis.org/default2.asp

Brook, I am sorry to say, I don't think you have a clue about Africa.

And you weren't able to give me a measuring stick for knowing when "the PTB will be gone".

Here is an article from your source there.....stunning :mfr_omg:

IQ Distribution by Race - Bizarre African/Asian IQ Facts
Date Posted: Wednesday 02-Aug-2006

[I'm going to put up a series of articles from an old regular reader in the Cape. This is pretty stunning stuff. A touches on a problem that has been bugging me quietly too - why aren't the Asians complete geniuses who dominate the world? The Asians *ARE CLEVER* - make no mistake. But there is something still not right - they're not dominating the world to the same degree that Whites have. Why?

A. has a theory of his own below, suggesting that their IQ distribution is not as wide as whites. So you get a lot of really dumb whites, but you also get a few, extremely intelligent whites.

A's theory is interesting. I had another theory - I wondered how accurate IQ measures CREATIVITY? I wondered if there were aspects of IQ which were not properly measured and that whites had an abundance of the "unmeasurable IQ" things - like, for example - mental creativity.

A makes a really fascinating point below which needs a lot more close attention. It is actually a brilliant concept. He is saying that even though blacks outnumber us 10 to 1, when it comes to the number of people with IQ's above genius level that there are many more whites at that level. Think about that.

Now you may think this does not matter, but it does. Any society is driven forward by the *FEW* people at the top of the IQ ladder. All societies work like this. The people right at the top are the ones essentially driving society forward.

This brings me back to a simple observation in my work and life in general that it is WHITES who are the most mentally active in this country. Whites are full of ideas, thoughts and critiques - whereas the blacks are merely regurgitating other people's ideas in a parrot-like fashion. Jan]

This is the most racist site I've seen in a long time.....they even have racist jokes...and brag about it
:mfr_omg: :mfr_omg: :mfr_omg:

BROOK

09-23-2009, 08:45 AM

I work for and do fund raiser for Living Compassion.....for a group of BLACK Africans who don't want a handout..they want a chance to take care of them selves...and this community is doing it

http://www.livingcompassion.org/africa/kantolomba_about.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FXEWrFKSq0

and here is the child I sponsor

http://www.livingcompassion.org/africa/images/kids/lonica-bwalya-6.jpg
Lonica Bwalya
Dear Brook,

Thank you for sponsoring Lonica Bwalya in support of the Kantolomba
Project in Ndola, Zambia. Attached is a PDF of a one-page document we
created to assist folks in their fundraising efforts for Bridge Walk
2009. Please feel free to contact us with any further questions.

We are grateful for your participation.

In lovingkindness,
Living Compassion
transforming lives, ending suffering

This is what I do about things that bother me and I feel needs change...

What do you do about what bothers you Kathyt?

After posting this...and your concern about my not having a clue about Africa...are you familiar with these people?...they don't need anybody to be beautiful...and they do just fine...without anybody's help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGLR8wEvRfQ
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGLR8wEvRfQ)

The Omo

mudra

09-23-2009, 10:09 AM

The population explosion
Paul R.Ehrlich & Anne H.Ehrlich

http://www.ditext.com/ehrlich/title.html

Excerpt:

human beings, besides tuning out gradual trends, do not easily recognize the need to adjust their ways of life to accommodate the needs of more than five billion fellows, most living thousands of miles away. That all people must change their behavior to permit everyone on the planet to lead a decent life is not a notion evolution has prepared us to accept readily. It is not surprising that Homo sapiens has brought its old mind into the new world. After all, biological evolution would require many thousands of generations to adjust the old perceptual apparatus to new situations, and world-scale problems have appeared only in the last one or two generations.

So, if society is to come to grips with the population explosion and the other elements of the greatest crisis it has faced in historic times, it will have to do so through cultural evolution. Cultural evolution consists of changes in the body of non-genetic information that is passed from person to person and [188] generation to generation. Cultural information, unlike the genetic information coded into the DNA of human beings, can be altered very rapidly -- well within a single generation in the modern world, sometimes within a week.

Cultural evolution must be harnessed and directed so as to amplify people's awareness of the gradual environmental changes that so threaten our civilization. Somehow we've all got to learn that a fluctuating but continually climbing line on a graph measuring the concentration of a colorless, odorless gas in the atmosphere may represent an enormously greater threat to our children's security than all the world's terrorists put together. People must learn to perceive in columns of population statistics an increasingly certain death knell for their way of life.

It's tough to override a legacy of billions of years of biological evolution and tens of thousands of years of cultural evolution.

Making the population connections therefore isn't all that easy, because people are basically designed not to pay attention to the factors that are related to population growth, or to that growth itself. Population growth, climate change, faltering food security, the loss of stratospheric ozone, increased acidity of rain, the extermination of populations and species of plants [189] and animals, and various other signposts collectively pointing toward global collapse are all trends too gradual for human beings to perceive easily and are not obviously connected to one another. Worse yet, most of them are difficult or impossible to perceive directly, even when attention is called to them.

Good and interesting book that adresses the problem of overpopulation in humane like and respectfull ways .
Focus is put on the necessicity of a global cultural revolution .

As metaw3 below I am favoring massive education resulting in raised awareness and global responsability rather then the use of coercive laws .

Love always
mudra

KathyT

09-23-2009, 06:30 PM

I work for and do fund raiser for Living Compassion.....for a group of BLACK Africans who don't want a handout..they want a chance to take care of them selves...and this community is doing it

and here is the child I sponsor

This is what I do about things that bother me and I feel needs change...

What do you do about what bothers you Kathyt?

Thank you for sharing the info about Ndola. I looked up Ndola on the internet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ndola, "it the third-largest city in Zambia, with a population of 774,757 (2007 estimate). It is the industrial, commercial, administrative and distribution on the Copperbelt, Zambia's copper-mining region, and capital of Copperbelt Province. It is also the commercial capital city of Zambia and has one of the three international airports."

Nice little city, if it has an international airport. They even have a college, Northem Technical College, Ndola, Zambia. I hope the thousands and thousands of people in Hdola themselves are taking care of their less fortunate, as it appears to be quite an industrious and prosperous city. Certainly bigger and more industrious than the city I live in.

You asked me what I do, I can tell you what I don't do. I never give to any of these organizations which come begging on TV or magazines asking for money. You never know where that money goes. I choose to give charity in my local community, where I know it is needed, as here too, we have hungry and disadvantaged people. There are hundreds of ways to volunteer in my community and help children in need here, and I choose and do what I believe is most beneficial here.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
On the other topic, you might want to look at the ruined farms in South Africa.

"Africa: A ruined farm worth R100 million
Date Posted: Monday 13-Feb-2006

I've been lucky enough to catch another news item showing another ruined farm that was handed over to the blacks via "Land Reform" - which the ANC assured us would NOT be the failure that so-called "Land Reform" was in Zimbabwe!

This farm in Letsitele, is a massive Orange farm. As best I could make out from the news item, this farm was worth R100 million. As I was saying, the ANC is not handing over just any old "silly family farm" - they are actually getting the best, the finest farms/businesses which are worth enormous sums of money, and they are handing it over to the blacks. And these farms are collapsing! The blacks can't even keep a successful going concern functioning!

This farm produced 140,000 oranges worth R7 million per annum at the time it was handed over to the blacks. Now it produces - NONE!"

BROOK

09-23-2009, 09:26 PM

You asked me what I do, I can tell you what I don't do. I never give to any of these organizations which come begging on TV or magazines asking for money. You never know where that money goes. I choose to give charity in my local community, where I know it is needed, as here too, we have hungry and disadvantaged people. There are hundreds of ways to volunteer in my community and help children in need here, and I choose and do what I believe is most beneficial here.That's nice....I also do work with mentally handicapped in my community...as well as support the homeless shelter in downtown Los Angeles....

"Africa: A ruined farm worth R100 million
Date Posted: Monday 13-Feb-2006

I've been lucky enough to catch another news item showing another ruined farm that was handed over to the blacks via "Land Reform" - which the ANC assured us would NOT be the failure that so-called "Land Reform" was in Zimbabwe!

This farm in Letsitele, is a massive Orange farm. As best I could make out from the news item, this farm was worth R100 million. As I was saying, the ANC is not handing over just any old "silly family farm" - they are actually getting the best, the finest farms/businesses which are worth enormous sums of money, and they are handing it over to the blacks. And these farms are collapsing! The blacks can't even keep a successful going concern functioning!

This farm produced 140,000 oranges worth R7 million per annum at the time it was handed over to the blacks. Now it produces - NONE!"this article is from that web site again..the same one that reports articles like this..

Nelson Mandela: The Songs They Sing about Killing Whites

This portion shows Nelson Mandela and Ronnie Kasrils at a funeral in 1992, where all the ANC/SACP members sing about killing the whites. This excerpt shows Mandela there, and it contrasts the words of the song, sung in Xhosa (the tribe from which Mandela comes), with the words he speaks in english. It also shows other members of the ANC, including women and children singing the same words. It has been noted over the years, that often, these black leaders, say one thing in a "native" language, but when questionined in english, they say something very different. In this excerpt you will see that.

S.Africa: Thieves beat mom, rape girl, 9

this no doubt is an example of the "materially poor, but spiritually rich" black people at work. Scum like this should be hung until they are DEAD!

:mfr_omg:
USA: Blacks kill more blacks than whites ever Lynched

A regular reader of AfricanCrisis as well as of American Renaissance sent me these comments. I am fascinated by the statement that more blacks in America are killed by other blacks annually than were ever lynched in TOTAL by whites!! I would love to see the actual statistics. Many times these things are blown completely out of proportion to make whites feel guilty and later when you see the stats you wonder what the fuss was all about.

As for Oprah, well, I think her agenda is largely crafted by her all white Liberal staff! (Sssh, the S.African Govt and Media will *NEVER* want to discuss Oprah's tendency to only hire WHITES!!! But I have heard this fact confirmed by someone who actually dealt with Oprah's staff here in S.Africa!) Oprah talks black but hires white! If you really think about it, this school, and Oprah and the kids... how many WHITES from S.Africa and the USA were actually involved in creating this? A LOT!! Jan]

Yes, Oprah spends R60 million on schools in Africa instead of the United States. Her excuse is the children in Africa want to learn, unlike the children in the inner cities of the USA, who only make trouble.

The main point to this all, is Oprah is a RACIST. Can you even imagine a White man, say Bill Gates, trying to contribute funding to an all WHITE school for White children only? People like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would not only call him racist, but they would do their best to destroy him and bankrupt his businesses. Our US government would call it illegal and shut the school down unless minorities were allowed to go to the school.

Why don't the blacks at least admit that they are incapable of producing prosperity without the aid from the White man. At least there would be honest reasons as to WHY they fail at EVERYTHING they do. The reason they fail is twofold:

(1) They are born with a low IQ and this is unchanging without help from a supreme being "God".
2) They have extreme levels of aggression and little self control. This is genetic and inherent in all blacks.

Funny thing, even the Bible says nothing against slavery, just that the slaves should be treated well and they must rest on the 7th day. Most blacks were far better off as slaves than they are today.

Did you know that blacks kill more blacks in one year than were lynched in a century. "The number of blacks killed in 2005 in this one homicide category alone approaches the total of all the blacks lynched in this country from 1882 to 1968, according to records maintained by Tuskegee University."

:mfr_omg:
http://www.africancrisis.org/default2.asp

And of course we cannot forget the section about "racist Jokes"...which I refuse to post....there are many other just as racist material on that site....plenty of it....but this is the mentality of the site you drew that article from?

Is this the information that makes you such an expert on Africa? Well just a little FYI.....the indigenous people of Africa are ...you guessed it...."BLACK"...and that is their country

How dare you suggest that they're mentality is less then able to farm...they probably worked those farms for the white men running them.

Do you remember

South Africa under apartheid

Racial segregation in South Africa began in colonial times, but apartheid as an official policy was introduced following the general election of 1948 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_general_election,_1948). New legislation classified inhabitants into racial groups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_definitions_of_race) ("black", "white", "coloured (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured)", and "Indian"), and residential areas were segregated by means of forced removals. From 1958, Blacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blacks) were deprived of their citizenship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship), legally becoming citizens of one of ten tribally based self-governing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-governance) homelands called bantustans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan), four of which became nominally independent states. The government segregated education (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_South_Africa), medical care, and other public services, and provided black people with services inferior to those of whites.
Apartheid sparked significant internal resistance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_resistance_to_South_African_apartheid).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Africa_under_apartheid#cite_note-0) A series of popular uprisings and protests were met with the banning of opposition and imprisoning of anti-apartheid leaders. As unrest spread and became more violent, state organizations responded with increasing repression and state-sponsored violence.

I am simply stunned and shocked that you would endorse this site.....it is pure racism .....shocking at best.....and since you seem to endorse this site with posts of that nature...does that mean you are a racist?

:shocked:

mudra

09-23-2009, 09:55 PM

Why don't the blacks at least admit that they are incapable of producing prosperity without the aid from the White man. At least there would be honest reasons as to WHY they fail at EVERYTHING they do. The reason they fail is twofold:

(1) They are born with a low IQ and this is unchanging without help from a supreme being "God".
2) They have extreme levels of aggression and little self control. This is genetic and inherent in all blacks.

Funny thing, even the Bible says nothing against slavery, just that the slaves should be treated well and they must rest on the 7th day. Most blacks were far better off as slaves than they are today.

Did you know that blacks kill more blacks in one year than were lynched in a century. "The number of blacks killed in 2005 in this one homicide category alone approaches the total of all the blacks lynched in this country from 1882 to 1968, according to records maintained by Tuskegee University."

:mfr_omg:
http://www.africancrisis.org/default2.asp

II am simply stunned and shocked that you would endorse this site..

:shocked:
[/COLOR]

I must say I am stunned too ! Needless to say that this is narrow minded thinking.
I would 'nt let the solving of population growth in the hands of people holding such views
no matter how " intelligent " they think they are.

Where is the LOVE ?

peace
mudra

BROOK

09-23-2009, 10:21 PM

I must say I am stunned too ! Needless to say that this is narrow minded thinking.
I would 'nt let the solving of population growth in the hands of people holding such views
no matter how " intelligent " they think they are.

Where is the LOVE ?

peace
mudra

Yes Mudra :mfr_omg: They call that ....
Eugenics

Eugenics is the study of, or belief in, the possibility of improving the qualities of the human species or a human population by such means as discouraging reproduction by persons having genetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetics) defects or presumed to have inheritable undesirable traits (negative eugenics) or encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits (positive eugenics)."[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics#cite_note-1) Prominent in the late 19th century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19th_century) and the Progressive Era (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Era), eugenics became a core tenet of some of the policies behind Adolf Hitler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler)'s Nazi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi) regime.

Remember Hitler????? The pure white race :mfr_omg:

There is a shop on that site...and I bet they offer pure white sheets :shocked:

BROOK

09-23-2009, 11:31 PM

RaKaR....I know you and I strongly disagree on this subject..but I know your heart is in the right place.....so I want anyone reading this to understand ...that I know RaKaR..does not subscribe to this line of thinking...it's too bad it veered into this subject..but it just shows that this form of thinking is still around...and it saddens me very much to think there are those who have not progressed beyond such hatred. :tears:

manticore

09-24-2009, 12:51 AM

The powers that be want to reduce the population? Yes.

Is there overpopulation? That depends on who you ask.

There is definitely a correlation between education/industrialization and population levels. Take France as an example. They are experiencing negative birth rate/growth. When you have negative growth, your society eventually dies. You have to always have even growth (same number for each birth and death) to at least maintain your society. That is why they have opened the doors to immigration. In the next 20-30 years, ethnic French will be the minority. Russia and Japan are experiencing the same and Japan is in trouble because it is a very homogeneous society. The same occurs with couples who marry later in life. They seem to have less children, unless it is religiously motivated.

I spent some time in Singapore in the 90's. At the time, Singapore was experiencing negative growth. The government funded Singles' Cruises. If you were single, the government would pay for the entire trip. That was a solution, instead of opening the door to immigrants, which they have also done. Once the numbers got back on track, they stop funding the program.

This is definitely a very hot topic, but worthy of discussion. Gosh, even a show would be ideal to discuss this from both perspectives. I saw someone talk about that we will not be able to reach Type 1 civilization if we cannot tap into renewable resources. Well, as Clif High said during my last show, we already have that capability. That's when I interjected and told him that TPTB have the capability and are not releasing it to us, therefore keeping us at Type/Class 00.

All you need to do is drive throug the United States, Canada and Australia. Get out of the cities. You will see hundreds and hundreds of empty miles. We can see how two countries that experience "too much" population deal with it. China has a one child policy and India does not. India is exploding in that regard and will soon, if not yet, surpass China as the most populated country.

I may get some heat by saying this but I think overpopulation, just like global warming, is a surgically engineered thought by TPTB, so that in the event we are taxed for anything (carbon tax), they can claim it's for the good of the planet and if they device another form of depopulation control (i.e., swine flu vaccinations / chemtrails), it's all to keep overpopulation population and the limited resources under control.

Someone mentioned that releasing AIDS was a way to reduce population. I agree that they want to reduce certain segments of the population (including Africa). However, take South Africa as an example. Many of the young are working just to support the sick and the productive population is always at risk from this. You cannot survive when a small portion is supporting the majority.

Folks, sometimes we have to step outside our paradigms to see the true reality. Mental programming/conditioning is happening 24/7.

All the best,

Mel

artvision

09-24-2009, 01:08 AM

RaKaR,

Sorry I didn't want insult you on this thread, we are criticizing ideas, not people; I was moderated for that. Just I felt the urge to inform that I'm totally in disagreement with your idea!

I walked all the world and I want to confirm you that all people are similar.

Everybody likes the good things of life, all hate the bads. If you pinch someone the same red blood is going out, even skin different color...

Everywhere are good people and bad people. Smart or stupid, etc.

HUMANS are not GOD!

Let's leave God with his business and us with ours!

BROOK

09-24-2009, 01:13 AM

What you posted reminded me of this article Mel...

The cry should go up in Europe: more babies, please
From The Times

Melanie McDonagh

Of all the bogeys you might have thought well and truly nailed in the past decade or so, the population control movement seemed most obviously to have a stake through its heart. At a time when we – I mean, anyone over 35 – are all horribly conscious that there won’t be enough taxpayers to support us in gin and cigarettes in our old age, the very last thing we need to worry about is excess population growth. On the contrary: as seen from the dinner party circuit, the real crisis is the difficulty for female graduates in getting anyone to breed with. Forty per cent of women graduates don’t have a single baby at the age of 35.

But, against all the odds, the population control lobby is back and trying to make the breeders feel guilty. The Optimum Population Trust – a wonderfully loaded title – made a call this week for families in the UK to limit themselves to no more than two children. It was like stepping into a time warp, back to the Seventies. Britain’s birthrate, growing at its fastest for nearly 30 years – at 1.87 children per couple – is, says the author of its report, Professor John Guillebaud, an environmental liability. “Each new UK birth, through the inevitable resource consumption and pollution that UK affluence generates, is responsible for about 160 times as much climate-related environmental damage as a new birth in Ethiopia.” He wants the Government to appeal to families to “stop at two children”, with particular reference to fecund teenage girls. Funny, I dimly recall Patricia Hewitt, as Health Secretary, opining that couples ought to have three children – one for each parent, and one for the State.

And there is the hint – but just a hint – from the Optimum Population people that if voluntary restraints do not work, governments will bring in coercive measures. The example that springs to mind here is, of course, China and its compulsory one-child policy. I’ve come across some distinguished academics myself who wouldn’t dream of trying to impose coerced abortion here but have made it quite clear, in private conversation, that we should all be grateful on environmental grounds that it happens in China.

Most environmentalists are more sensitive, at least in their public pronouncements. But undeniably, population control is back on the public agenda. There was a nuanced BBC radio discussion on this subject to coincide with the Live Earth concert between the writer George Monbiot and Chris Rapley, the head of the British Antarctic Survey, in which Professor Rapley declared that population growth was the “Cinderella subject” in the environmental debate. More people equals more carbon emissions: simple as that. Monbiot agreed that the subject was not talked about as much as it should be and emphasised that if we’re talking about population control, we have to worry not just about the developing world but about the breeding habits of the affluent West. About us.

That sounds dandy. The nice approach to curbing population growth is by making family planning more freely available in the developing world and in particular, to educate girls, who then marry later and have fewer children. The complementary route is to increase economic growth in developing countries: when people don’t have to rely on children as their seed corn for old age, they tend to have smaller families. Trouble is, increased economic
growth also means higher carbon emissions. You can’t win.

But when it comes to the suggestion that in Western Europe, and especially Britain, we should be cutting back on babies, especially among the indigenous population, well, the family planners have got to be nuts. Do they all have private pension provision, own homes and health insurance, or what? The rest of us – including those, like me, who are eco-puritans – have a vested interest in ensuring that the Continent does not shrink out of existence. We’ve got our old age to think about. The price of family homes in Britain and Ireland is already the most effective contraceptive measure ever known.

Don’t the environmentalists get out at all? Don’t they realise that there are only two classes in Britain for whom three or more children are an option – the rich, for whom mortgages don’t matter, and the poor, whose children are supported by the benefit system? The increase in the birth rate this year was largely accounted for by immigrants and older, richer mothers. One reason why there's such resentment – articulated by the Labour minister Margaret Hodge – among white working-class Britons about asylum-seekers with children getting social housing ahead of them is that the system seems to discriminate against couples who postpone having children until they can afford them in favour of ethnic minority communities with large families.

Europe needs more babies – the average continental family has a mere 1.37 children. Cutting back non-EU immigration to limit pressure on housing stock would help. So would state cash handouts. In Portugal, where the birthrate has fallen to 1.7 children per couple, the Government has considered giving tax breaks to people who have more than two children and levying higher taxes on those who have fewer. Germany is similarly concerned – it could lose the equivalent of the population of the former East Germany within 50 years. Russia’s population is contracting at the rate of three quarters of a million a year: the resourceful Mr Putin is paying mothers to have a second child.

The last thing we should be doing is bullying people to breed less. The population controllers have to be put back in their box. You know, Augustus Caesar had a tax on Roman bachelors. With due allowances for gay men and professional celibates, there’s lots to be said for the idea.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2067023.ece

Bobbie

09-24-2009, 03:19 AM

And....don't forget we've got the whole inside of the globe to populate as long as we stay clear of the moulton lava, etc.
To me it's about having a responsible population, regardless of the number. The world is becoming more aware everywhere, not everyone, but everywhere.

IMHO, I think that in time we will live in a world that we will have 2 or 10 kids if we can afford them - if we can provide for them and have the capacity to love them, which is the right of any child. Population control is not the answer, but rather knowledge, light, love and learning to take responsibility for our actions is. Fear, greed and irresponsibility has not served humanity well. I'm sure looking forward to it.

SIX BILLION people can fit into the state of Texas

BROOK

09-24-2009, 03:23 AM

Bobbie

09-24-2009, 03:28 AM

Thanks Brook....BTW, I love your avatar. I have a lamp that looks like that when it's turned on. :D

Well said....I'm looking forward to it as well

And welcome Bobbie to the forum :welcomeani:

KathyT

09-24-2009, 03:37 AM

All you need to do is drive through the United States, Canada and Australia. Get out of the cities. You will see hundreds and hundreds of empty miles.

I have always lived outside cities. The hundreds and hundreds of miles are not empty, although they may appear to be so to someone who has lived their whole life in a city.

Mankind needs forests, our forest land is shrinking due to mankind's using lumber at a rate faster than regrowth. Mankind needs agriculture land, but to have productive farm land, you need WATER, and here in California, water is so regulated by the California Water Resources Control Board, that neither humans nor agriculture can count on increasing water supplies. More and more communities are experiencing mandated water rationing, because we have reached the point where more people have to share less water. Watersheds are tightly regulated.

I've worked with County Planning departments. Land use is facing tough battles everywhere, as we want sustainable communities and we want to save ag land, yet where are our grandchildren going to live? So they build more and more condominiums with no yards, more high rise apartments, where the children have no place to play.

Planning departments don't encourage 'urban sprawl', as the costs to cities to provide sewer and water to 'spread out' houses, is higher than they can afford. So the developers just build more houses on postage size lots with no back yards to speak off.

People think there are hundreds of empty miles that somehow are available to turn into "something", not realizing there is NO water available, NO natural resources or industries to provide jobs.

What is happening to our natural resources? How many years do we have left? http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/archive/2605/26051202.jpg

Clean water and the availability of ag land is a major consideration to our survival on this planet. Where are we going to find huge quantities of ag land and water for future generations?

BROOK

09-24-2009, 03:43 AM

Where are we going to find huge quantities of ag land and water for future generations?

Seawater Desalination in California

CHAPTER ONE: BACKGROUND

http://www.coastal.ca.gov/desalrpt/bar4.gif

Desalination Plants Worldwide
Desalination Technologies

Reverse Osmosis (RO)
Distillation

Input Water (Feedwater)
Product Water
Product Water Recovery
Pretreatment Processes
Filter Backwashing, Membrane Cleaning and Storage, Scaling Prevention and Removal, and Pipeline Cleaning
Waste Discharges
Energy Use
Comparison of Distillation and Reverse Osmosis Technologies
Costs of Desalinated Water
Costs of Other Water Sources

Desalination Plants Worldwide

Of the more than 7,500 desalination plants in operation worldwide, 60% are located in the Middle East. The world's largest plant in Saudi Arabia produces 128 MGD of desalted water. In contrast, 12% of the world's capacity is produced in the Americas, with most of the plants located in the Caribbean and Florida. To date, only a limited number of desalination plants have been built along the California coast, primarily because the cost of desalination is generally higher than the costs of other water supply alternatives available in California (e.g., water transfers and groundwater pumping). However, as drought conditions occur and concern over water availability increases, desalination projects are being proposed at numerous locations in the state.
Desalination Technologies

Desalination is a process that removes dissolved minerals (including but not limited to salt) from seawater, brackish water, or treated wastewater. A number of technologies have been developed for desalination, including reverse osmosis (RO), distillation, electrodialysis, and vacuum freezing. Two of these technologies, RO and distillation, are being considered by municipalities, water districts, and private companies for development of seawater desalination in California. These methods are described below.

http://www.coastal.ca.gov/desalrpt/dchap1.html

BROOK

09-24-2009, 03:52 AM

Planning departments don't encourage 'urban sprawl', as the costs to cities to provide sewer and water to 'spread out' houses, is higher than they can afford

How about using that money they spend on WARS

BROOK

09-24-2009, 03:55 AM

People think there are hundreds of empty miles that somehow are available to turn into "something", not realizing there is NO water available, NO natural resources or industries to provide jobs.Half empty? ...or half full?

http://www.thesunblog.com/sports/glasshalfull.jpg

I choose half full
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YqnudKNcmM

:thumb_yello:

burgundia

09-24-2009, 05:41 AM

TheObserver

09-24-2009, 05:51 AM

And don't forget the bs in Darfur/Sudan.

ps: love the cat burgundia!

BROOK

09-24-2009, 06:08 AM

KathyT

09-24-2009, 07:09 AM

How about using that money they spend on WARS

Assuming you're talking about the US government, how soon do you think you are going to get Congress to change their mind on the military budget?

They can't even agree on health care....

Wishful thinking, but I'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting..

KathyT

09-24-2009, 07:25 AM

i bet African problems had been much less serious before the whites got there. They still are manipulating people there...remember the genocide in Rwanda? UN didn't send troops there to stop it but soldiers went to Iraq to fight fot human rights....ridiculous, isn't it

If this is an example of "problems before the whites got there"...it's no comparision. Rwanda was an ethic battle within the country, basically a civil war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1288230.stm?lss
"Between April and June 1994, an estimated 800,000 Rwandans were killed in the space of 100 days.

Most of the dead were Tutsis - and most of those who perpetrated the violence were Hutus.

Ethnic tension in Rwanda is nothing new. There have been always been disagreements between the majority Hutus and minority Tutsis, but the animosity between them has grown substantially since the colonial period.

1994: RWANDA'S GENOCIDE

The two ethnic groups are actually very similar - they speak the same language, inhabit the same areas and follow the same traditions. "

manticore

09-24-2009, 07:53 AM

Wormhole

09-24-2009, 08:11 AM

I do my part by not getting pregnant. That however does not mean that I do not want to be a mother. My husband and I have chosen to adopt when we are in a position to do so. The change needs to start personally with us, first.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

burgundia

09-24-2009, 11:31 AM

burgundia

09-24-2009, 11:32 AM

hello burgundia,

actually, problems started happening when the land in the african continent was conquered. Natives in africa lived in peace and tribes were usually divided by rivers. After the new lines of demarcation were established by the "conquerors" everything changed and africa today is mostly looked upon as a source minerals and other resources.

Cheers,

mel

exactly!!!

BROOK

09-25-2009, 12:47 AM

If this is an example of "problems before the whites got there"...it's no comparision. Rwanda was an ethic battle within the country, basically a civil war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1288230.stm?lss
"Between April and June 1994, an estimated 800,000 Rwandans were killed in the space of 100 days.

Most of the dead were Tutsis - and most of those who perpetrated the violence were Hutus.

Ethnic tension in Rwanda is nothing new. There have been always been disagreements between the majority Hutus and minority Tutsis, but the animosity between them has grown substantially since the colonial period.

1994: RWANDA'S GENOCIDE

The two ethnic groups are actually very similar - they speak the same language, inhabit the same areas and follow the same traditions. "

Africa is a continent which has always been misunderstood. When one hears the name Africa, disparity and struggle comes to mind. To many Africa is a continent filled with poverty, famine, disease, and underdevelopment. This may be true in present day circumstances, however before European colonization Africa was a nation far from the shackles of disparity and struggle. During the period of pre-colonization Africa was a nation thriving with rich cultures, including African philosophy and art, and a leading pioneer in the field of commerce. There are many diverse and distinct cultures in Africa. Each country has its own language, cultural identity, and unique history. For instance, the people of Tanzania whose native tongue is Swahili are culturally and historically different from the people of Somalia whose native tongue is Somali. African philosophy is an intriguing and insightful area, which disappointedly receives very few acknowledgements. Many do not know that there is an essence of knowledge and enlightenment in African philosophy. Plato, the famous philosopher is to have said that his “…alleged Theory of Ideas is borrowed from Egypt”

as for the Hutus and minority Tutsis:

Once, Hutus and Tutsis lived in harmony in Central Africa. About 600 years ago, Tutsis, a tall, warrior people, moved south from Ethiopia and invaded the homeland of the Hutus. Though much smaller in number, they conquered the Hutus, who agreed to raise crops for them in return for protection.
Even in the colonial era -- when Belgium ruled the area, after taking it from Germany in 1916 -- the two groups lived as one, speaking the same language, intermarrying, and obeying a nearly godlike Tutsi king.
Independence changed everything. The monarchy was dissolved and Belgian troops withdrawn -- a power vacuum both Tutsis and Hutus fought to fill. Two new countries emerged in 1962 -- Rwanda, dominated by the Hutus, and Burundi by the Tutsis -- and the ethnic fighting flared on and off in the following decades.

http://www.thesavannahtheatreproject.org/African%20Sunset.jpg

BROOK

09-25-2009, 01:27 AM

Assuming you're talking about the US government, how soon do you think you are going to get Congress to change their mind on the military budget?

They can't even agree on health care....

Wishful thinking, but I'll be waiting... and waiting... and waiting..

I'm talking about humanity...and I stand on what I said from the beginning...

The real “population change” we need to focus on is not artificially reducing human numbers. Rather, it is about winning real democratic change, i.e. dramatically increasing the numbers of ordinary people who can participate in making decisions about investment in green industries, agriculture, global trade and military spending.
Population control narrowly looks only at the quantity of human beings to find a solution to climate change. Ultimately, its narrow vision makes it a divisive policy.

I have faith in mankind....that it has survived this far...it will continue to survive...and my glass is half full
I look for the evolution to continue to the next level and things will be much different...
More beauty...ho hatred....EVOLUTION on the next level will be awesome...I have FAITH

http://defencedebates.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/children-playing.jpg

BROOK

10-04-2009, 05:17 PM

BROOK

10-04-2009, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by KathyT View Post
If this is an example of "problems before the whites got there"...it's no comparision. Rwanda was an ethic battle within the country, basically a civil war.

And your point??? The bloodiest civil war ever was fought was in the US....by the "WHITES"

burgundia

10-04-2009, 05:45 PM

Whites had no right to go to Africa or asia , and make their own colonies there. now certain countries are rich because of ages of exploitation...but the exploitation in former colonies is still going on....

BROOK

10-04-2009, 06:07 PM

Where is RaKaR?...I would rather debate with sound intelligent information.

As for my question to Kathyt....still waiting :nono:

Bobbie

10-04-2009, 07:00 PM

Europeans had every right to go anywhere they wanted to. What they didn't have the right to do was exploit. Just for instance, in the case of the diamond industry. The diamonds had been there for who knows how long waiting for someone to dig them out. The locals had plenty of opportunity to do that and trade them on the world market, but they didn't. The Europeans seized the opportunity to get the diamonds out of the ground but where they fell short was not doing it in an honorable way - that by, involving the local population in the operations rather than making slaves of them. They worked with the greedy leaders of the host country to create this slave state. Not everyone has the capacity to be the president and some have only the capacity to hold down a lower paying job but they could have seen to it that the people were treated like humans and they could have elevated their lifestyles to a liveable wage. They could have educated them, they could have made them a inclusive part of the bounty, but they didn't, they exploited them.

Let's don't forget, that these host countries have enough greedy leaders of their own and they consistently keep their own people down in order to control them. Europeans are not the only ones who use these tactics. Remember, Europeans were not the ones who rounded up the slaves to be sold, their own people rounded them up and made money from them. It's a viscious cycle and until the greed is stamped out, this kind of thing is going to go on and there is no one race, country or creed that is void of it. JMHO.

Whites had no right to go to Africa or asia , and make their own colonies there. now certain countries are rich because of ages of exploitation...but the exploitation in former colonies is still going on....

burgundia

10-04-2009, 07:04 PM

Yes, bobbie...i meant exploitation...they had the right to go wherever they pleased.... of course the exploitation goes on there with the help of the local authorities...but quite possible if they didn't comply , they would be replaced with others who would...
Why is Mugabe still in power? he lets other foreign countries exploit his own nation and its resources.

TheObserver

10-04-2009, 07:37 PM

Why not just leave the diamonds in the earth. Why does someone even have to use them. :naughty:

Bobbie

10-04-2009, 10:33 PM

I look at things on our planet as gifts and the object is to make good use of them....not abuse the use of them. If something can bring us joy with it's beauty without harm, then I accept the gift graciously and am very thankful for it. :wink2:

Why not just leave the diamonds in the earth. Why does someone even have to use them. :naughty:

BROOK

10-05-2009, 12:03 AM

I like that view Bobbie...about time for that coffee?

BROOK

10-05-2009, 12:05 AM

Bobbie

10-05-2009, 12:59 AM

Not to mention that is one of the most beautiful countries on this planet. I would love to visit there without fear of contracting something, getting eaten by something, or raped by something. Africa's positive future can be in the education of it's people.

I was watching 20/20 the other night - right now today in Tanzania they hunt down albino children and adults, either kill them or cut off their limbs and leave them bleeding because they have been told by some of their witchdoctors that the flesh, bones and hair of an albino, when mixed with their potions, can bring wealth and good luck. These poachers of human beings are paid about $1000.00 a leg. I wonder if these people knew how to make money another way if they would choose this profession or are they just plain evil. From my point of view, I think I could find a better way to make a living. Is that because I'm educated, and they kill people to make a living because they are not educated - or it just greed? Couldn't they find a better way to make a living? That's a judgment call and I'm not here to judge but the point is, somewhere along the line a person has to take responsibility for his actions, educated or not.

I hope David Wilcock is right and those who continue to vibrate 3rd dimensionally will cease to be - they will die out and those whose hearts and intentions are only for the betterment of mankind and have raised their vibrational consciousness will remain.....then, maybe I can visit Africa and enjoy her people and culture without the threat of losing life and/or limb.

Africa has been around as long or longer than all the other countries and they have had as much or more chance to evolve as the rest of us. I wonder why that hasn't happened on a larger scale. Could it be a DNA thing - I don't know? We need a strong soul reincarnation infultration of the population of Africa so they can turn themselves around. I wonder what kinds of barbaric souls inhabit the bodies of all those gorilla warriors who destroy villages and innocent lives. Africa is the next jewel of the planet and it's high time we rescue her from the course she has been on. I'll get down off my soapbox now.... N E X T :zip:

I'll tell ya why....Africa is the next big jewel to acquire...resources aboud

BROOK

10-05-2009, 01:07 AM

I cannot even conceive of such things :nono: But I would be very careful of what you hear on the big media new stations...or any thing that is run by Rupert Murdoch

Bobbie

10-05-2009, 01:39 AM

I hear you Brook but I think sometimes a cigar is a cigar and there was plenty of documentation. There is a school there that is opening up their doors and allowing albino children to be housed there to protect them from these poachers. There is an organization in Canada ( http://www.underthesamesun.com/home.php ) who is raising funds to allow the school to take in more of these kids. Apparently, there is a very high Albino rate in Tanzania. I think this is probably a true story. I don't think everything in the media is for our detriment. A good lie has to start with some real truths in order to be believeable. I think this is one of the truths.

I cannot even conceive of such things :nono: But I would be very careful of what you hear on the big media new stations...or any thing that is run by Rupert Murdoch

BROOK

10-05-2009, 01:47 AM

Agreed, there is some merit..but you have to wonder anytime you listen to the views..and where they take them..and why the hell is no one doing anything about it???? Makes you mad huh? :mad3:

Bobbie

10-05-2009, 01:59 AM

I do believe there is some deliberate neglect but I also believe that the abused are too many and the advocates too few. There's a lot of work to do to turn this planet around but it's a lot better in many, many, many respects than it ever has been, otherwise they wouldn't even been considering allowing us to enter a higher dimension. Attention has to be brought to these wrongs before they can be corrected - just like a virus will die when exposed to air and light. Exposure starts the process of allowing these things to die out. :cup::biggrin2:

Agreed, there is some merit..but you have to wonder anytime you listen to the views..and where they take them..and why the hell is no one doing anything about it???? Makes you mad huh? :mad3:

BROOK

10-05-2009, 02:52 AM

Bobbie...love the avitar:thumb_yello:

Yes...my glass is half full...I have faith

:naughty: :cup::thumb_yello:

Bobbie

10-05-2009, 03:50 AM

I thought you might like it because I think you are an artist at heart. That's my beautiful daughter in her self-applied make-up for Halloween last year. She minors in theatre at CSUN (which includes theatrical make-up)

Bobbie...love the avitar:thumb_yello:

Yes...my glass is half full...I have faith

:naughty: :cup::thumb_yello:

BROOK

10-05-2009, 03:59 AM

Your daughter is beautiful :wub2:

Bobbie

10-05-2009, 04:37 AM

:DYour daughter is beautiful :wub2:

burgundia

10-05-2009, 05:53 AM

I'll tell ya why....Africa is the next big jewel to acquire...resources aboud

I believe it was obvious from my post ...:shocked:

RaKaR

10-06-2009, 08:58 AM

Greetings,

Thank you all for your insights and (passionate:-)) argumentations and contributions in the discussion of this utterly delicate and rather sensitive issue.

I also appreciated the fact, that you - despite all - managed to stick to the topic. Most of the time...:-)

Brooks,
Thanks for 'the flowers', but i believe we all do our best here, out of deep conviction in the rationality of our respective stances, and that no one chooses 'evil' voluntarily: we do make mistakes of judgement, instead.

As to your question on my whereabouts, well i was out there taking care of other matters and, most recently, trying to draw attention to the following:

The Ritual Slaughter of Dolphins, which is being planned this November, in the Faroe Islands.

See here: Stop The Bloody Tradition Of The Faroe Islands

Briefly: "This petition has been created to target to the horrible bloody practice, which is still taking place in the heart of the European Union and which belongs to the middle ages but not to the modern society. Every November inhabitants of Faroe Islands* come to the sea to teach their sons to kill. The subject of this millennium tradition, aimed to make men out of boys, are confiding and very human-friendly dolphins - 1500 animal units every year. We feel confident, that such cruelty towards the fauna is absolutly unacceptable in the 21.th century in the face of the massive damages of the civilization"[...]

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/petition/557550806

Do please also help stop this barbaric practice; support this petition.

Off i go again,

Namaste.