Spirituality or Knowledge

[Norval]

Spirituality or Knowledge

Wiki statement on Spirituality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

Wiki statement on Knowledge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge

Personally, I think I am more knowledgeable than I am spiritual. :wink2:

Maybe this should be a poll?

So, are you more spiritual, or would you say of yourself that you are more
knowledgeable? :welcomeani:

[P4BL0]

.

[Zelphael]

Unfortunately, I think I am more knowledgable than spiritual.

I am a typical occult scholar up in his ivory tower - I read and understand many things, yet have yet to leave my tower and walk The Path.

I hope to, when I find the right way, some how...

[Cookie]

IMO, a person can be knowledgeable in mundane matters and knowledgeable in spiritual matters... knowledge of mundane things is acquired by reading, the news..etc. Spiritual knowledge (Wisdom) is acquired by accessing your higher self, guides, and researching too. When spiritual knowledge resonates as a 'truth', it becomes Wisdom... I hope I'm making sense!

Anywho, I'd like to think that I have both..Knowledge of the mundane and Knowledge of Spirit! {8^o

[shortyz504]

It seems that one day will be an extreme day of "knowledge", in which my mind will not slow down and only wants to acquire new information.

Yet other days feels extremely "spiritual" and nothing pleases me more than sitting on the grass next to a pond or a river, smellings the aroma of flowers and trees, hearing all the bugs calling out to each other, feeling the warm sun around me.

Sometimes these days come so unexpectedly I feel guilty for I did nothing to deserve such experiences. Days like these are what balances the heavy load of having "Knowledge Seeking" days, for its not easy to seek solutions to problems that no one around you really cares to burdern themselves with.

In this moment, it would seem that I could be called a Knowledge Seeker, who at times forgets/remembers the Spiritual Journey. The wisdom to unite both aspect harmoniously seems to be a lesson coming up in my path.

Each day it becomes clearer that it does little good to possess knowledge if it cannot be used to serve others in a positive way. One challenge I face is overcoming personal fear of the Unknown, in order to communicate peacefully the worldly truths learned over this past year.

Maybe I am not alone in this crossroad of spiritual adventures, and if not let me hear some advice as to encourage some thoughts of Hope and Love.


Stay classy Project Avalon

[Softy1107]

im having trouble seeing this as two seperate things...
u gain knowledge from spirituality,
and u gain spirituality from knowledge... both are closely intertwined
but, i consider myself more spiritual,
so i best go quest for knowledge :sweatdrop:

[HUMANCARGO]

knowledge is the road, concoiusness is the place

[HUMANCARGO]

as seen in a mirror

[HUMANCARGO]

within a mirror.....forever

[HUMANCARGO]

i know this

[HUMANCARGO]

deep in my perception

[shortyz504]

could you elaborate on your perceptions?

could say something to resonate with the vibrations of Light and Love?

it always feels good to share

[AMA-GI]

One is to cultivate the seven factors of enlightenment: mindfulness, investigation into phenomena, energy, bliss, tranquillity, concentration, and equanimity:original:

[arcora]

There are things people know and are knowledgable about which don't come from school or books. This knowledge comes from spirit. Spiritualism allows one to recognize and interpret this knowledge.

Perhaps the cosmic conciousness is more of a cosmic library.

[shortyz504]

i seem to struggle with cultivating energy. there are a lot of days that i feel drained all day. any suggestions?

[arcora]

i seem to struggle with cultivating energy. there are a lot of days that i feel drained all day. any suggestions?

Energy isn't cultivated. It is readily available to you at all times and is infinite. You need only ask for it.

Simply intend for it to enter you and fill you. It helps to visualize it coming down from the cosmos and filling your body.

[NorCal Avenger]

It's very beautiful to me how this forum is bringing people together.

it seems that the physical and the spiritual are separate, but it is not true. What we call spiritual reality is really our faculty to experience the layers of reality that permeate and underlie the physical.

our experiences in meditation of sound, light and vibration are also believed to be (in quantum physics) the stuff that matter is made of...but in spirituality, we realize what may be the deepest level (consciousness) which is animating even those things.

that's my 2 cents, paid in full. :)

[Norval]

Well, it seemed like a good question at the time.

The more I learn the more I realize that I rely on my physical senses for knowledge.

Good responses, thank you for the input. Any other ideas about knowledge compared with spiritual understandings?

[OceanWinds]

i seem to struggle with cultivating energy. there are a lot of days that i feel drained all day. any suggestions?

Thank God for making you feel better, and full of energy. I do it all the time, and it has yet to fail. The only problem is that you have to remember to do it when your feeling down... lol. Learned this one from good ol Dr. Wayne Dyer. It used to take a couple hours to take effect, now it happens in about 30 minutes... dont know why though.

I find what happens to me is that I might do something that brings me out of the light, and then I get stuck there. And after I ask for energy and to feel good, I also release what ever I am clinging to... cause I find it just leads to another dark thought. Learned this one from good ol Ekhart.

But there are a million things you can do... I know a few of them, or atleast a few that work for me.

[shortyz504]

It becomes apparent to me as each day passes that my spiritual journey has started to speed up, which requires more intention and more maturity. The process seems to be more challenging today than ever before, yet it does not scare me as much as I thought it would.

Everywhere the Universe keeps nudging me in a certain direction, while providing abundant advice along the way. Everything posted on this thread seems to really be relevant to my day to day struggles. Everyone's words of widsom prove to be very useful in the times I find myself.

I have to admit that there lingers in me a destructive/fearful thought pattern that seems to really be fighting for its survival, inside me. Almost as if I have ignored facing this certain characteristic my whole life, and now I have decided to face it once and for all. This seems to be troublesome archetype for everytime I fall under his "spell" I always end up in the darkness.

Maybe someone else has had or is having a similar experience. I would love nothing more than to leave this pattern behind, yet it has a very persistant presence and will not go away easily. So maybe some more tips and advise... since it all has been so useful up until now.

Thanks again to everyone who is helping this Fool along his path.

Stay classy Project Avalon!!!

[ThaFever]

All that i'm seeing here is somehow linked.
Weird:winksmiley02:

[TranceAm]

imo

Knowledge, helps me in this reality to project prophecies based on this realities laws and experience...

Spirituality is "my"/?"our"? total existence that is not limited to this reality.,
and imo we are only peeking through our 3rd eye to participate with our interface (body) in this reality.

I would dare to claim, whatever happens, get used to the thought that you will exist forever. Like it or not in the box..

You are free to claim to live in a fridge where the lights go out when the door closes.

Deep enough? ;-)
:yikes:

[Norval]

Deep? Well, I started this with my sandals on and now I am changing into my hip waders and thinking I may need my chest waders soon. :shocked:

When it comes to "spirituality" most posts seem to be more of a philosophical nature. Not very many posts about knowledge showing up yet though.

An old quote I like about "knowledge" is by Will Rodgers 1938,
"It's not what you know, or don't know, but what you know that isn't so that will hurt you." :sad:

[Sky Otter]

Hey Norval
and all

i have a question...
do you have to act on anything to be spiritual?
and is knowledge just a collection of things?
hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm:

[TranceAm]

Deep? Well, I started this with my sandals on and now I am changing into my hip waders and thinking I may need my chest waders soon. :shocked:


Hmm, noticing that you are on a boat you might even have that stuff available.. ;-)


When it comes to "spirituality" most posts seem to be more of a philosophical nature. Not very many posts about knowledge showing up yet though.


It seems all knowledge is relative. And there aren't to many basis truths to build reality on.. (Hence my quote below.)
For example, if one combines the unit for Length, a Standarized Meter, how does this relate to an expanding universe? Is the Meter of 2 seconds ago, the same absolute length as the Meter that we experience or measure now? How could we measure that expansion, if everything expanded, even the "Meter" we consider as standard?


An old quote I like about "knowledge" is by Will Rodgers 1938,
"It's not what you know, or don't know, but what you know that isn't so that will hurt you." :sad:

And true it is, but then again, What can really happen to us?
At most the third eye closes... And the atoms and molecules that our spirit held together, become dust in the wind and basis for other iife to build with.

The big question is, at what side of the 3rd eye is the observer?
Or where does the reader prefer to be? And based on what information/knowledge?

I threw a thought a while back in an IRC channel, that maybe sheds some light into this issue.

"Just a thought... Skip if you're not interested, but I do think that life is funny,
and how society bases everything on what happens on the outside of you, AND thus makes you concentrate on a "closed" box,
instead of what it is really about, the inside of you, that is limitless?
(And that you haven't thought about something yet, doesn't mean it ain't there or possible, correct?) "


Needless to say, there was no reflection from the void on the channel.
Maybe you have a thought there that adds or shows the inconsistency?
If so be welcome. I look forward to your thoughts to enhance mine and to learn..

Peace TranceAm

[FrostyMcunicron]

Balanced.

[OceanWinds]

Part of the problem is the english language... and definitions of each. Spirit and Knowledge both overlap parts of each other. In other parts they do not, and confusion emerges. Finding the separation between the two is not possible IMO.

Knowledge is an understanding of the world we exist within.

Spirituality is an umbrella term of knowledge, wisdom, feeling, and being with the specific intent of experiencing Spirit.

[Norval]

Now I think that is a good choice of words OceanWinds, even if it was in english. :wink2:

[Norval]

Going out on a "spiritual" limb here, I'll try to give my two cents worth.
Most of what I will post about is based on "knowledge", or study of ancient writings, and primarily the bible, also from my experiences in 57 years of life. No, I am not the least bit "religious", or "spiritual" as many use the term. Those that know me consider me as a knowledgeable and practical man. Of course others may vary with that opinion. :lmao:

Sky Otter asks,
"do you have to act on anything to be spiritual?"
and,
"and is knowledge just a collection of things?"

Well, if you get a gut feeling about something, check it out, but be very careful about your actions, or acting on it. The world is paved with good intentions.

IMO, knowledge is a collection of experiences that you can trust as truths to give you a solid foundation for possibilities and probabilities that may also be true.
Seek and you will find.

TranceAm asks and comments,

"And true it is, but then again, What can really happen to us?"
Well, I have to trust my two eyes that tell me that person is no longer alive.
But it would be good to see my old friends again. Maybe technologies will soon advance to where people can be cloned and their conciseness be reinstalled. Kinda like restoring a computer, only a bit more complex. :yikes:

People often get so distracted by "mind games" they fail to see the physical realities unfolding right in front of them. Why has so much sprung up about "spirituality" when it is all based on a word from the bible that is not even translated into english? (Speaking of english again.) Spirit is a transposed word, it means wind, breath, an invisible but physical force of some kind.
The so called Holy Spirit is a force to be reckoned with and has a definite attitude. :wink2:

[TranceAm]

TranceAm asks and comments,

"And true it is, but then again, What can really happen to us?"

Well, I have to trust my two eyes that tell me that person is no longer alive.
But it would be good to see my old friends again. Maybe technologies will soon advance to where people can be cloned and their conciseness be reinstalled. Kinda like restoring a computer, only a bit more complex. :yikes:


Thank you for honoring me with an answer from your point of view.
And your response does raise a couple of questions upto the ultimate question.

Let me see if I can point you to them and it, by asking the related questions:

Did you want to stay around in kinder garden?
Would you still want to be in first grade?
Why would you continue life here, if the path your existence follows over the dimensional lines goes somewhere else?

I think that growing up, is more then just picking the best part of existence you have knowledge of upto now, and then repeat it.

I respect your point of view... I have been there.

It indicates a fight... A fight to accept what is... A fight you can't win.
Even in the best scenario of human genious (And you point to it.), and we find a way to replicate and duplicate our spirit in a fresh body, we still face a dead and cold universe in times to come when all the suns go dark... So even if one would live a Trillion years, the point of having to accept the inevidable will come.
Not even mentioning of "What happens to that original spirit in the original body, that will continue over the dimensional lines while your "new" copy evades the natural way (For the time being.)?

Your thoughts please?

[Balancer]

hello everybody,

first things first...we all seek for both so we clearly can say knowledge AND spirituality are necessary.
in my opinion we can not seperate them, when we really want an inner and outer harmony. I call it the exotheric and esotheric way. Only exotheric may lead to conspiracy theories and when you follow only this path too long you can get scared of the world and fear is rising (first part os distortion). When you follow only the esotheric path everything is love and light you feel like flying in the sky and nothing can go wrong. Sounds good in the beginning but i believe you really can fly away, you are not grounded anymore, forgetting your roots are deep in mother earth, forgetting that you have a physical body, you are in material world and you have to face it. This state of conciousness may leads to the point where everything is equal...good bad lazy...pahhh its only here in illusionary world...dont care. you can get too comfortable (second part of distortion).
I pay attention to love, this is my direction, there is a choice today so the attraction follows your attention.

i think the knowledge seeking part of me interact with the outer world, which from my perspectiv seems to be seperate from me.(5 senses, mind...) informations are his obsession. the spirituality-part is my interaction with my inner world and can lead to a deeper understanding of me and my innerworld.(5 higher senses, subconciousness, feeling the oneness :wub2: )
And because the outer world is a reflection of my inner world you get a deeper understanding of th eouter world which routes to new attention, questions, informations and the CIRCLE is closed!:biggrin2:

i do not write so much about the spiritual equivalent of this circle written from knowledge seeking mind because i think i can rely on the comments from shortyz504!
thank you...exactly my feelings of this line we are climbing upwards.
very uplifting and deeply resonant to my self.

love & light

Balancer

[Norval]

Even in the best scenario of human genious (And you point to it.), and we find a way to replicate and duplicate our spirit in a fresh body, we still face a dead and cold universe in times to come when all the suns go dark... So even if one would live a Trillion years, the point of having to accept the inevidable will come.

Not a problem, that is plenty long enough for me. :thumb_yello: I'm not greedy.

[Norval]

Spirituality seems to be philosophy.

Knowledge seems to be experiance to gain wisdom.

[doodlebug]

Hmmm.... appears you are correct.

[omshanti2]

I feel I am both, I am spirit, becoming knowledgabe as my consciousness/awareness exspands according to experiences mental/physical/spiritual etc.

[EpiphaMe]

Etymology is useful as words take on new meaning. Harnessed back, spirit is ineffably "breath" "wind"... I like to say "that which animates". Knowledge is taken back to the word "can", as in "is able". To me knowledge implies a body, so does spirit. Indicates to me that knowledge animates, else it's merely information.

[Stephen]

Interesting question...

Hmmmm.....

We are all Spiritual Beings. Multi-Dimensional Beings is a better term I would think.

To become aware of our Spiritual Selves is to gain knowledge.
Applying that knowledge then can become wisdom.

Now someone here said: Balanced! I like that.
In fact that is how I 'see' Norval. He is a balanced person.
Or as much as one can be from my point of view.
Or maybe as he is striving to be.

I have known many 'Knowledgeable People' but, in my opinion if they to not recognize their Spiritual Self then what do they really know?

[Frank Samuel]

If you close your eyes and meditate on the voices of the minds of everybody,
scientist, writters , poets, you hear these voices. Babara Streisand said she would hear music all the time playing in her mind. This is how scientist sometimes gain inspirations for ideas. Often in your sleep. The origin of knowledge is spiritual. Knowledge is a highway you Journey on in order to connect to your spiritual self. It is there that you become awaken, it is an incredible rush of energy which connects to everything. Knowledge for the sake of intellectual achievements have a temporal value but is not very fufilling. My spirit is constantly searching to connect , I cannot turn it off.
To embrace, have compassion, forgive, to be humble, are knowledge which can be describe as wisdom, ah now that is deep. Wisdom is gain through
your spiritual connection to all. That includes the good and the bad...
Love and peace to all...:wub2::wub2::wub2::biggrin2:

[Frank Samuel]

Haiti has been hit the hardest by the effects of these weather wars.
Knowledge is something not easy to swallow, if you could visualize, see and feel the suffering of so many people. Such is life !!!

[Jenny]

Hi Norval,

http://www.kenwilber.com/writings/index?category=Essays


Are you familiar with Ken Wilber?

Reading this thread I felt Ken Wilber's view on Knowledge and Spirituality is the most comprehensive you can find in this moment in time.
His Integral Institute is precisly doing what you are looking for. imho.

I hope you like it.

Zjenny

[Suriel]

Spirituality from your higher self integrates into your physical experiences as you gain more wisdom. Knowledge connected to the matters of the Heart = learning to be wiser therefore you collect more light energy or god consciousness.

People that have knowledge that do not recognize spirit become more Luciferian. Which was the whole point of that rebellion.

The goal is to have a balance between the two. Use knowledge with spirit to develop your journey closer to your destination and HOME which is ..........

You know the Answer.

:biggrin2:

[Animos]

There is NO Spirituality without Knowledge. Remeber this!

cos

All Believes = False Knowledge = False Spirituality



ONLY

True Knowledge can open True Spirituality

[Norval]

So, as I see it now being said, spiratuality is now called "action" based on knowledge.

Now that is an interesting development.

[TheInfamousOne]

I would say I use to be more knowledgeable than spiritual. But due to my recent experiences I can not explain, I am not so sure any more.

I consider my self to slowly becoming spiritual but I belong to no religion. As David Icke recently said "God Save Me From Religion" That's where I stand.

So I like to say I could recently have a balance of both but if I were to measure this question with my life experiences. I would say "Knowledgable" but consider myself slowly becoming spiritual.

Guess I am on the fence with this one.

[Norval]

I propose then the "Spirituality or Knowledge" question is about ones view point based
on ones experiences.

When I was the resident minister for our state capitol senior center it amazed me at how
many told me that I was the most "spiritual" person they had ever met. Thank you all for
your input thus far. :thumb_yello:

Norval L. Cunningham

[Argante]

Because this thread was in the Project Camelot area, it was moved to a holding area where we are reviewing threads to make sure they are in the interest of Avalon.

Three Mods have decided that this thread should once again be part of the forum because of the importance of it's message.

We are working very hard to clear the holding area of Camelot threads.

We are very sorry for any confusion or hurt feelings this may have caused any of the Ground Crew.

Brightest of Blessings,
Mary Lou

[whitecrow]

So, are you more spiritual, or would you say of yourself that you are more
knowledgeable?


I would hate to have to choose. Without the one we are mere materialists; without the other we are superstitious. They are the two wings of a single bird.

[Norval]

Birds of a feather flock togeather?

This thread was NEVER in Camelot.

Spirituality was ALWAYS in Avalon, , , , , , , , hmmmmmm

[Frank Samuel]

Phycical Knowledge vs. Spiritual Knowledge are they one and the same ?Feelings, emotions,intuition, love, are things unseen not so clearly define by physical knowledge alone.
If I focus on my intellect without connectting it to my heart I fail then to connect to the truth unseen, truth so overwhelming which your heart cannot contain and your mind cannot truely comprehend. Physical knowledge alone
is limited and dangerous. To love and be love this experience is not define by knowledge alone, for this powerful emotion unseen connects us to the better
part of ourselves, our spiritualself. It is there that lays the hope for a better tomorrow for our children.

[Stephen]

This thread and ANY Thread/Post of Norval's should be ALLOWED to be shown here on this forum.

He has a canny knack for seeing through the BS.

I have suggested that Norval become a Moderator here as well.
In fact I strongly suggested that...

EDIT: Oh...One more thing. Norval at least post more for me. hehe!
I want to learn more about this myself. Dood is ignorant. Dood needs more Info/Data...
Remember, I am Watching You. (Look at my Avatar...:smoke:)

[Animos]

I propose then the "Spirituality or Knowledge" question is about ones view point based
on ones experiences.

When I was the resident minister for our state capitol senior center it amazed me at how
many told me that I was the most "spiritual" person they had ever met. Thank you all for
your input thus far. :thumb_yello:

Norval L. Cunningham

What exactly is Spirituality?
What exactly is "Spirit"?

[OceanWinds]

spirituality is the quest to experience spirit, and encompases anything related to it..

spirit... is an essence, a source... the ultimate

[Gale]

Excellent question Animos.
Finally

[Animos]

spirituality is the quest to experience spirit, and encompases anything related to it..

spirit... is an essence, a source... the ultimate

Excellent, but what is an essence, a source, what is ultimate? How can you define Ultimate? Do you need to or do you have to? Is there an End or Start? How can you show a source? Where is it?..or Where is it comming from??................???


and more important...

I would like to know what you people mean by "soul". What exactly is a Soul?

[Norval]

This thread and ANY Thread/Post of Norval's should be ALLOWED to be shown here on this forum.

He has a canny knack for seeing through the BS.

I have suggested that Norval become a Moderator here as well.
In fact I strongly suggested that...

EDIT: Oh...One more thing. Norval at least post more for me. hehe!
I want to learn more about this myself. Dood is ignorant. Dood needs more Info/Data...
Remember, I am Watching You. (Look at my Avatar...:smoke:)

Are you sure about that Old Dood? Only if I can call on others for advice at times, , like you. :winksmiley02:

Now concerning this thread, here are a few other ideas to think about.


On another personal note, and concerning what it seems many are calling spirituality, or
thinking what it means, the base word spirit, means a force or invisible power, IE wind.

One thing I do know about is what many have termed the Holy Spirit, that which is talked
about in the bible. It is interesting to note that while many are required to gather for a
spiritual meditation to try to accomplish something, the bible says if; "you" (singular) have
faith (trust) the size of a mustard seed you could cause a mountain to be lifted up and cast
into the sea. This spirit, power, flows through a person, guess it's kind of like the "force".
As near as I can figure from what the bible says about this Holy Spirit it seems to be an
energy force, like electricity, only with a personality and an attitude. :shocked:

[Norval]

and more important...

I would like to know what you people mean by "soul". What exactly is a Soul?

I would think that that should be asked in a new thread, What is Soul, and not the music kind. :thumb_yello:

[whitecrow]

The more I learn the more I realize that I rely on my physical senses for knowledge.



Do you mean that the more you learn, the more you rely on your physical senses and realize you are doing so? If so, do you regard it as an enablement or an obstacle?

Or do you mean that the more you learn, the more you realize that you rely on your physical senses to the exclusions of other perceptions of which you are becoming aware? If so, do you find this empowering? Troubling?

[whitecrow]

This is an interesting thread. The question is something I suppose most people have asked themselves at least casually, and here we really are wrestling with these concepts and what they mean to us.

Well done, y'all!

I notice a lot of the discussion revolves around definitions. All the words - soul, knowledge, spirituality - are actually pretty hard to pin down, aren't they.

The older I get, the more I realize that definitions, while useful, are limiting and never absolute. It seems better to me to search out examples of what people mean when they use these words, and listen to what the concept sounds like. I arrive at a holistic definition - which first and foremost I know is my definition and may work fine for me and not so well for you.

I can think of two good examples. Read any of the world's great religious scriptures, and unless you are a specialist in ancient languages you are probably reading a translation, with all the loss of nuance and depth implied. It's like the enzymes being destroyed in cooked food. And yet, with even a minimal amount of study, one is capable of being transported by the depth and beauty of the revealed message. This is because the meaning is holistic and does not fully depend on the printed word.

The second example is a simple fact that everyone knows: anyone can make the facts lie. Every politician is a master of this art. At the same time, the greatest truths and deepest insights often or even usually are embodied in works of fiction.

Look at "knowledge". We all have met people who claim to "know" something that is questionable, whether it's religious dogma or the certainty that their wife would never cheat. So, what do we "know?" I am sixty years old (almost), and all my life I have "known" that this earth is a big rock going round in space and that everything on it is fully solid and real. I've "known" that God was this big guy out there somewhere who was going to make everything alright in the end. Et cetera.

Well, come to find out that my definitions ain't worth an earring to a possum. "Solid" is actually mostly empty space quickened by electromagnetic fields, and nothing is what it seems. Then it hit me, delicious irony: that's exactly what mystics have said from day one! It's all an illusion...not that it isn't "real" because it is, but it is not what it appears to be.

Does it even matter if you or I can offer a "real" definition of what a "soul" is? I'm not so sure it does. Whatever my soul is, I know it exists. Whenever I try to wrap it in words it becomes ineffable, like smoke.

One more point, then I'll shut up. We shouldn't let definitions get in the way of communications. When they enable communication they are fine but when we cannot agree on a definition let us agree on something else. You and I may never mean the same thing when we say soul or spirit or even knowledge, but I suspect we seek the same things. We might even be able to find something to come to blows over...but I'd lay odds we're far more likely to find common cause.

[353L]

Knowledge vs. Spirituality ?

Any sufficiently advanced Knowledge and its application, about the world and the invisible powers behind the curtain are indistinguishable from Spirituality.

[Frank Samuel]

Wall full of diplomas and certificates, wow !!! You know what I am learning more from my 1 1/2 yr. old than from all the schools I attended. For when you think you know something, is really the time to start over and relearn everything. Knowledge or Spritual my definition, what I learn is that I don't know anything . So I laughed enjoy life and know that even if I only live for one second I enjoy watching my baby smile and call me daddy , it was all worthwhile. I thank the heavens for letting me live in this moment, don't know if I'll come back as a fly and get smash by a fly swap. Or maybe as a fly
I'll jump in a spaceship into infinity.....away we go !!!

[Norval]

Whitecrow
The physical inputs, auditory, visual, and so on. Those senses that I rely on for learning.
As the eyes are getting a bit weaker I rely on glasses at times. There are "other" senses I
am aware of too.
Will Rodgers said; "It's not what you know, or don't know, but what you know that isn't
so that will hurt you." Good words. :thumb_yello:

353L
I think it was "Re: Spirituality or Knowledge" That "or", not vs.
But an interesting thought.

Frank
Yep, I agree that alot of formal education institutes are not worth the taxes or tuition it
takes to pay for them. Kids can teach us alot too, so can wild life.
I think my "spirit or soul" would be most comfortable being in my youthful body again, but
not a fly. Thank you! :thumbdown: :mfr_lol: :original:

[Frank Samuel]

Noval no offense my friend, just wanted to get achuckle of the people that read the post. I cannot talk about some things, but I'm with you and I am reading your post. Thanks for your words . Like you said we are all learning, and relearning. A big hug you ol foggie, keep those logs coming the fire is pretty warm. Hey how about a few marshmallows.:biggrin2:

[Stephen]

Norval...
I just wanted to share my thoughts real quick.
It maybe deemed somewhat 'off topic' but, so be it...hehe!

I am coming to the belief that the Old Testiment is the story of Alantis.
Reading that in that vein seems to open up a lot of the scripture to me anyways.

I read the Bible twice in my life. I was in my late 20's to early 30's then.
It was the King Jimmy Version too with some concordances to help with translations.
Then I studied it with others back then too. I have not read it full all way through since.

The Old Testiment to me is not very kind or loving. It is full of fear and obedience....OR ELSE! hehe

I do believe it shows us as a people how we became to be and how we were 'made' or 'engineered'.

[Genevieve]

OK heres my try at this - since this question has really intrigued me!!!

Spirit is a constant

Knowledge is a variable

As to WHAT each is hmmmmmm???

How about Spirit is the all elusive "ether" some physicists would dearly love to prove the existence of (and others disclaim)

and Knowledge is the cognitive steps we take on a physical level to gain awareness of that spirit.

Which one am I?

Well I would say that I was spirit first and foremost and i am trying my utmost to obtain the knowledge to KNOW the true nature of my own spirit.

The tricky thing about obtaining knowledge tho is to know where to look!! lol and there comes that word KNOW again - pesky thing!! In actual fact we cannot possibly KNOW where to look when its KNOWING we are lsearching for!

sigh.... its all a big conundrum - i talk myself in circles yet again!!

[OceanWinds]

Excellent, but what is an essence, a source, what is ultimate? How can you define Ultimate? Do you need to or do you have to? Is there an End or Start? How can you show a source? Where is it?..or Where is it comming from??................???


and more important...

I would like to know what you people mean by "soul". What exactly is a Soul?

Its hard to explain source, unless you have experienced it in some way. I will try to explain it as best I can... from my point of view to your understanding.

Its like the most beautiful awe inspiring woman you have ever seen thats always around you, but you only can see her when your not looking for her or anything else.


To my knowledge there is no end or start... its the way we perceive time that causes us to think linearly. I guess when a person achieves greater states of awareness the whole linear thing goes away.

Where is source... you experience it when your not looking for it, but intend for it. And supposedly it comes from your greater Self. (capital S)

These questions your asking take alot more in depth study... I think you would gain alot from reading something like ACIM, the Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita, or something along those lines. Even the series of books by Carlos Castaneda will give a person a great depth into Spirit.

[Norval]

"Seek and you will find."

Words of the bible.

That may be a good place to start.

[777 The Great Work]

Spirituality or Knowledge

Wiki statement on Spirituality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

Wiki statement on Knowledge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge

Personally, I think I am more knowledgeable than I am spiritual. :wink2:

Maybe this should be a poll?



So, are you more spiritual, or would you say of yourself that you are more
knowledgeable? :welcomeani:

This is like the seperation of church and state. The church is the state ,and knowledge is spiritual. Regardless of what kind, it all comes from thought which is unseen.

[Stephen]

"Seek and you will find."

Words of the bible.

That may be a good place to start.

"Ask and Ye shall recieve...." Has always 'worked' for me as well.

It has worked when I started having OBEs (ones that I remember anyways ;)) in the last few years.

[777 The Great Work]

Hmm, noticing that you are on a boat you might even have that stuff available.. ;-)



It seems all knowledge is relative. And there aren't to many basis truths to build reality on.. (Hence my quote below.)
For example, if one combines the unit for Length, a Standarized Meter, how does this relate to an expanding universe? Is the Meter of 2 seconds ago, the same absolute length as the Meter that we experience or measure now? How could we measure that expansion, if everything expanded, even the "Meter" we consider as standard?



And true it is, but then again, What can really happen to us?
At most the third eye closes... And the atoms and molecules that our spirit held together, become dust in the wind and basis for other iife to build with.

The big question is, at what side of the 3rd eye is the observer?
Or where does the reader prefer to be? And based on what information/knowledge?

I threw a thought a while back in an IRC channel, that maybe sheds some light into this issue.

"Just a thought... Skip if you're not interested, but I do think that life is funny,
and how society bases everything on what happens on the outside of you, AND thus makes you concentrate on a "closed" box,
instead of what it is really about, the inside of you, that is limitless?
(And that you haven't thought about something yet, doesn't mean it ain't there or possible, correct?) "


Needless to say, there was no reflection from the void on the channel.
Maybe you have a thought there that adds or shows the inconsistency?
If so be welcome. I look forward to your thoughts to enhance mine and to learn..

Peace TranceAm
Thats the trick and illusion.That there is no outside of you . Its all in our heads.
Every thing we observe are just electrical signals processed in a very dark place in the brain. Its like watching tv. The tv recieves the signal and process that image on the screen and all images come from IMAGINATION LAND.
The other illusion is that we don't even think independently from one another.
This reality is energy condensed at a very slow vibration based on our own low vibration or level of conciousness.
Time only seperates one event from the other and every thing is happening now. As conciousness accelerate and the gap of time closes the ability to manifest will be an instant awareness.
Oh and the question about the meter. A meter is a meter. these ideas are everywhere and nowhere at the same time.
Everything is and isn't at the same time.

Others words 21 goats , 21 cats and 21 dogs are just 21. Whats real is the 21. The names are different vibrations of an idea. Whats really wierd as that if you start paying attention to how many times you see certain numbers in the matrix anywhere. They reveal the future and the pass. Very soon the matrix will fall and the hidden overlords know this. When this all start taking place. awareness is going explode like an atom bomb and the people gonna want answers.
Thats why they want us to have high definition tv so they can raise the vibration of the programming. They are scared.

[TranceAm]

Thanks you, for a waterfall of sparkling ideas.

Thats the trick and illusion.That there is no outside of you . Its all in our heads.

That becomes the question, if it is all in our heads, then do we really need heads, to keep up the illusion that it is IN our heads since there would be no outside?

Every thing we observe are just electrical signals processed in a very dark place in the brain. Its like watching tv. The tv recieves the signal and process that image on the screen and all images come from IMAGINATION LAND.
The other illusion is that we don't even think independently from one another.
This reality is energy condensed at a very slow vibration based on our own low vibration or level of conciousness.

So the higher we can get our our own vibrations or level of consciousness, the more we can "observe"/"participate" in our (expanding) reality that upto that moment was (for the observer) non-existant ..? :-) That is going to get quite interesting.

Others words 21 goats , 21 cats and 21 dogs are just 21. Whats real is the 21. The names are different vibrations of an idea.

That is going to be hard to accept for some... That what we call animals, are just persons, in what we observe as a different body. What about plants/trees?

Whats really wierd as that if you start paying attention to how many times you see certain numbers in the matrix anywhere. They reveal the future and the pass. Very soon the matrix will fall and the hidden overlords know this. When this all start taking place. awareness is going explode like an atom bomb and the people gonna want answers.
Thats why they want us to have high definition tv so they can raise the vibration of the programming. They are scared.

hmmm Makes me think (?For one reason or another?) about harmonics...
Can you explain why?
Thank you for the reply. It does make sense. :thumb_yello:

[Norval]

Now this has taken an interesting twist on what I would have to call the "Spirituality" side
of the discussion. :smoke:

[klatu]

This choice is an artificial one and a reflection of old and unresolved arguments within an early medievel church. The two are not contradictory. Scriptural discoveries made only during the last century, The Nag Hammadi collection of Gnostic Gospels and the Dead Sea Scrolls suggest the potential of a search for knowledge [of God and true self] by an act of perfect faith. In fact a new interpretation of the Resurrection argues that this event is a metaphor for a direct intervention into the natural world by God in response to an act of faith. Knowledge and moral insight accessible by faith. Such a change in the historical 'faith' paradigm is the stuff revolution is made of?