The US Constitution

[Seashore]

This thread is for citizens of the United States...

Does it make a difference to you if our Constitution (including the Bill of Rights) is eliminated?

[orthodoxymoron]

Often...things and people are not appreciated...until we lose them. The U.S. Constitution is not a particularly interesting document. It's mostly procedural in nature. It's quite short and to the point. Many people would find the National Enquirer to be much more interesting. So...why get all excited about the Constitution? After all...it's just a GD piece of paper.

The U.S. Constitution is at the center of the best effort of the human race to have people govern themselves with responsible freedom...as opposed to being ruled by dictators...who are often very corrupt, cruel, and violent. The Constitution comes to life when one closely examines how and why it came into existence. When one considers the practical day to day implementation of this document...with all of it's implications and ramifications...it truly becomes a living document...but not in the liberal sense! The Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers are a good place to start...to understand why the Constitution is so important.

The real question is whether Earth will be a free or enslaved planet. If the United States and the U.S. Constitution are neutered or destroyed...there will be nothing standing between tyranny and the rest of the world. If this world falls into tyranny and enslavement...it may take centuries...and unbelievable sacrifices...to get back to where we are today. Please consider this matter from a theological and spiritual perspective also...whether you are a religious person or not. The U.S. Constitution and the Teachings of Jesus are in the crosshairs. The tyranny may very well be alien and demonic in nature. I see evidence that we are in the middle of a spiritual war.

[Seashore]

The tyranny may very well be alien and demonic in nature. I see evidence that we are in the middle of a spiritual war.

You're thinking that those who are interested in the preservation of the Constitution need to think in terms of how to deal with an alien adversary, as opposed to some other approach?

[Seashore]

Because it is not too long, I have copied and pasted the Bill of Rights, just to remind us all what is included:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

______________________________________________

Here's the link that I copied and pasted from:

Bill of Rights Text (http://www.jmu.edu/madison/gpos225-madison2/bill_of_rights_text.htm)

[Malynda]

It does make a difference to me whether or not our Constitution is scrapped. I feel that the Declaration of Independence, Constitution and Bill of Rights are the way the U. S. A. should be. I think we all as a nation need to sit down and look at all the other amendments that have been added as well as our original documents and see what should stay and what should go though. I believe out first three documents cover it all if we really look at it but if it can be shown that something else would suit us better, then I'm all for it. As of now, The Constitution is still precious in my eyes.

If anyone is interested, Noami Wolf discusses our founding documents and how far away we have gotten from them in her book/video The End of America and her book Give me Liberty. I've mentioned her a lot lately because she strikes a cord with the patriot in me, deeply.

[Seashore]

If anyone is interested, Noami Wolf discusses our founding documents and how far away we have gotten from them in her book/video The End of America and her book Give me Liberty. I've mentioned her a lot lately because she strikes a cord with the patriot in me, deeply.

It was reading the "NAOMI WOLF Speaks..."Americans Facing A Coup" thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4483) that inspired me to start this thread.

I feel that we Americans desperately need to pause and reflect upon the legacy that has been handed down to us and what it is that we need to do.

[Malynda]

Thank you for that link, seashore. I had not seen it yet.

Let's have a town hall meeting. I see no reason why this cannot happen. I know things will probably be chucked at me for saying this but I think Obama might be up for this. All we have to do is pick a time and place (which can be physical and virtual) and hash this all out. Let's review these documents together. I'm down to start contacting people such as Ms. Wolf and see if we can't organize this.

[Seashore]

Let's have a town hall meeting.

I've been thinking about the possibility of a rally to rescind the Patriot Act. A rally on the National Mall...

http://a.abcnews.com/images/GMA/nc_aerial_080425_ssh.jpg

[Malynda]

Now that would be awesome! I have seen no movements to rescind the Patriot Act but we all take issue with it.

[orthodoxymoron]

You're thinking that those who are interested in the preservation of the Constitution need to think in terms of how to deal with an alien adversary, as opposed to some other approach?

Spiritual issues should not be excluded from conversations regarding who really controls planet Earth...which includes the United States. Spiritual discussions should not exclude the possibility of non-human entities...which may be both physical and spiritual. But who knows...perhaps humans would like to be enslaved by demonic entities. There is some evidence that this is already the case.

I like your ideas regarding dealing with the so called 'Patriot' Act.

[Seashore]

The tyranny may very well be alien and demonic in nature. I see evidence that we are in the middle of a spiritual war.

The following statement, from the "Mission Statement" of researcher Wes Penre, reminded me of your post:

"Ultimately, this war for control and slavery of humanity is inter-dimensional and does not have the origins on this Earth."

Here is the link to his blog:

Fighting for Planet Earth; Blog by Wes Penre (http://battleofearth.wordpress.com/mission-statement/)

[orthodoxymoron]

Thank-you for the link. That's the sort of thing I had in mind.

I'm not opposed to a world government. I'm not opposed to population reduction. I'm not opposed to underground bases. I'm not opposed to a global currency.

What I am opposed to is a dictatorship...of any kind...human or otherwise. This places the human race at the back of the bus. I continue to like the idea of having the U.S. Constitution at the core of the United Nations and world government...with the various regions of the world as additional states...with all of the rights and responsibilities of the current states of the United States. This would not be nationalism or domination by the United States. It would simply be we the people of Earth...deciding our future in a rational and organized manner. We the people of Earth should not be slaves or lab rats.

I simply want Earth to be run properly. Look at the last 100 years...and ask yourself if Earth has been run properly. I believe that at least 100 million people have died violent deaths during this period. The human race has been horribly jerked around and mistreated. I want the bs to stop...now.

[Seashore]

I continue to like the idea of having the U.S. Constitution at the core of ... world government...


I worry that having only one central government for the world will result in an impossible set-up for checks and balances against tyranny. What we need is to restore the Constitution in the US, not try to transplant it with only one central government for the whole planet. It would be unmanageable. Too much distance between the central authority and the individual.

[orthodoxymoron]

Is the United States just the right size...right now? Is it too big? How big is too big? If Canada and Mexico were added to the United States...and under the U.S. Constitution...would this be too big...and unmanageable?

There are very, very powerful forces at work to create a dictatorial world government...in complete opposition to the U.S. Constitution. This may be an all or nothing situation. I'm only bringing this proposition up because of the activities and goals of the New World Order. There may be no middle ground.

The various nations would be nations within a nation. They would retain their cultures and religions. They would settle internal disputes and problems...their way. A centralized decentralization...to facilitate orderly, rational, and non-corrupt international cooperation would be the goal. The United Nations is currently an international joke. It could be transformed into something truly beneficial to the human race.

We stand at a crossroads and a precipice...without a safety net.

[Seashore]

If Canada and Mexico were added to the United States...and under the U.S. Constitution...would this be too big...and unmanageable?


Yes. We've let things slip as it is.

[orthodoxymoron]

Have we let things slip through apathy and neglect...or have we been infiltrated and subverted by forces outside of the United States?

[Seashore]

Have we let things slip through apathy and neglect...or have we been infiltrated and subverted by forces outside of the United States?

Probably both.

[JoyAnna]

I worry that having only one central government for the world will result in an impossible set-up for checks and balances against tyranny. What we need is to restore the Constitution in the US, not try to transplant it with only one central government for the whole planet. It would be unmanageable. Too much distance between the central authority and the individual.

Yes, but –– if the constitution were adhered to faithfully (both across the planet and in the USA) the concept of 'central authority' would not be an issue. The state governments would deal with all issues not specifically allocated to the central government.

[Malynda]

Yes, but –– if the constitution were adhered to faithfully (both across the planet and in the USA) the concept of 'central authority' would not be an issue. The state governments would deal with all issues not specifically allocated to the central government.

I agree with that. It's in the Bill of Rights and I feel the less centralized and more localized, the better.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution)

[Seashore]

...if the constitution were adhered to faithfully...

What safeguards would bring this about?

[Malynda]

What safeguards would bring this about?

We the People. We are not entirely without fault. We need to know our rights and stand up for them.

"At the close of the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia on September 18, 1787, a Mrs. Powel anxiously awaited the results, and as Benjamin Franklin emerged from the long task now finished, asked him directly: "Well Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" "A republic if you can keep it" responded Franklin."

[Seashore]

...the less centralized and more localized, the better...

I agree.

How do we maintain local control?

[Malynda]

I agree.

How do we maintain local control?

I know that I myself have only recently begun to explore my local government in my city and county. I was too busy worrying about the federal government. If more people became more knowledgeable about and active within the local government, perhaps we could maintain better control of our so-called leaders. Right now, this seems to work best in smaller cities. My best friend grew up in a very small town and everyone knew everything that went on with everyone, including government who were the same people they ran into all around town. With more knowledge of how things work locally and who our local reps are, maybe this could work.

[Seashore]

We the People. We are not entirely without fault. We need to know our rights and stand up for them.

Naomi Wolf is a good leader in this regard...

And people are producing videos and putting them on the internet to express concern...

We're communicating with others with this forum...

And I'm praying that the military and the police are reading this forum. I hope they will come through for us, rather than for the powers that be...

[Seashore]

I know that I myself have only recently begun to explore my local government in my city and county. I was too busy worrying about the federal government.

Me, too. I need to focus on that...

[Malynda]

Naomi Wolf is a good leader in this regard...

And people are producing videos and putting them on the internet to express concern...

We're communicating with others with this forum...

And I'm praying that the military and the police are reading this forum. I hope they will come through for us, rather than for the powers that be...

Naomi Wolf is a shining star in my eyes right now. I am with you on this. I too hope the military and police see this for what it is. I believe military people (don't know too many police people) serve with good in their hearts for the most part. I have great respect for them. We just want our natural rights as humans as well as those we deserve as U. S. citizens. I don't know why that's such a big deal. They belong to us so let us have them.

[Malynda]

Me, too. I need to focus on that...

I love to learn but I seem to run away with grandiose ideas, theories, concepts and never learn the basics. Funny because my whole life I felt that someday the basics will be of utmost important. I feel that now is the time so I am trying to change. In addition to local government, I am studying electricity because I need to fix some electrical at home and have no idea what I'm doing and am dreading calling an electrician. :lol3:

[orthodoxymoron]

To me...executive orders, NSC memos, alphabet agencies, security classifications which exclude Presidents, black projects, treaties, the secret government, etc, etc...are end-runs around the Constitution. To me...the President should be an ambassador...to communicate and promote the decisions of the Senate and Congress...and not establish policy. If the President is too powerful...all the bad-guys have to do is buy themselves a President...and buy the Mass Media...and they have themselves a country. The Federal Reserve is more powerful than the legitimate U.S. Government...and is yet another end-run around the Constitution. 'National Security' can be used to hide all manner of corruption and subversion. This should not be. The states should exercise the most authority and power available to them under the Constitution. Some say that Washington D.C. is not a part of the United States of America...and not under the U.S. Constitution. Some say that Washington D.C. operates under the tyrannical Lex Fori. The occult symbolism in Washington D.C. is very creepy. The Constitution can be suspended...and the country placed under Martial Law. Continuity of Government should be Continuity of Constitution. The Constitution is on the Endangered Species List. Safeguards and correctives need to be immediately put into action to correct past and present subversion...and to reestablish the Constitution with the original intent of the nation's founders. Finally, a Constitutional Convention would be a disaster. We are actually quite close to having a Con-Con. I see a Manufactured Constitutional Crisis in my crystal ball.

[Malynda]

Me, too. I need to focus on that...

Just noticed you are in VA. I will probably be making a move there sometime this year or next so I will be learning about local government for there as well. If you want me to pass along any info I find, let me know.

[Malynda]

To me...executive orders, NSC memos, alphabet agencies, security classifications which exclude Presidents, black projects, treaties, the secret government, etc, etc...are end-runs around the Constitution. To me...the President should be an ambassador...to communicate and promote the decisions of the Senate and Congress. 'National Security' can be used to hide all manner of corruption and subversion. This should not be. The states should exercise the most authority and power available to them under the Constitution. Some say that Washington D.C. is not a part of the United States of America...and not under the U.S. Constitution. Some say that Washington D.C. operates under the tyrannical Lex Fori. The occult symbolism in Washington D.C. is very creepy. The Constitution can be suspended...and the country placed under Martial Law. Continuity of Government should be Continuity of Constitution. The Constitution is on the Endangered Species List.

I completely agree, especially with the statements in bold. National security, I think, has gotten out of control. Everything is a possible threat to national security. I can understand some things but we keep far too many secrets from our people. I cannot see a solution to this at this moment but perhaps after further thought, reflection and discourse I can help find one.

[Seashore]

To me...executive orders, NSC memos, alphabet agencies, security classifications which exclude Presidents, black projects, treaties, the secret government, etc, etc...are end-runs around the Constitution. To me...the President should be an ambassador...to communicate and promote the decisions of the Senate and Congress...and not establish policy. If the President is too powerful...all the bad-guys have to do is buy themselves a President...and buy the Mass Media...and they have themselves a country. The Federal Reserve is more powerful than the legitimate U.S. Government...and is yet another end-run around the Constitution. 'National Security' can be used to hide all manner of corruption and subversion. This should not be. The states should exercise the most authority and power available to them under the Constitution. Some say that Washington D.C. is not a part of the United States of America...and not under the U.S. Constitution. Some say that Washington D.C. operates under the tyrannical Lex Fori. The occult symbolism in Washington D.C. is very creepy. The Constitution can be suspended...and the country placed under Martial Law. Continuity of Government should be Continuity of Constitution. The Constitution is on the Endangered Species List. Safeguards and correctives need to be immediately put into action to correct past and present subversion...and to reestablish the Constitution with the original intent of the nation's founders. Finally, a Constitutional Convention would be a disaster. We are actually quite close to having a Con-Con. I see a Manufactured Constitutional Crisis in my crystal ball.

I agree with every word.

Except that I've never heard of Lex Fori. What is it?

[Seashore]

Everything is a possible threat to national security.

Yeah...it's used as an excuse.

[orthodoxymoron]

Here is a link which may make your hair stand on end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj0cuc559tA&feature=related. :mfr_omg:

I'm still researching Lex Fori...but it seems to involve foreign law superceding local law...in certain circumstances. While researching, I found this regarding the three city-states. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this information, but I have seen the same information elsewhere. Here is the link to the site http://www.911truth.ch/SMOM.html :

Vatican City, Rome, Italy. (religious center) (sovereign state since 1929)

City of London, London, United Kingdom. (economic center) (sovereign state since 1649, owned by the City of London Corporation)

District of Columbia (which includes Washington D.C.), United States. (military center)

The "District of Columbia Act of 1871" turned D.C. into a municipal corporation. Congress has the supreme authority over the city and the federal district, with its own special constitutional amendment since 1961. Furthermore the District of Columbia is judicially governed by the Lex fori as opposed to Lex causae.

"There is an increasingly common belief among many that this Act has overturned the United States Constitutional Republic. These theorists state that the "Corporate US" is actually operating under the name: UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, noting the capital letters as a distinction from the Constitutional Republic."

The Jesuit bishop John Carroll was probably the richest man in America in the late 1700's. Carroll allowed funding to construct D.C. (which is nicknamed "Rome on the Potomac"). The owner of the land used to be Francis Pope and his priest was Jesuit Andrew White.

Washington D.C.'s original name was Rome, Maryland, and a branch of the Potomac River was called Tiber Creek, which was named after the Tiber river in Rome. Like Rome, Washington D.C. has 7 hills, whose names are: Capitol Hill, Meridian Hill, Floral Hills, Forest Hills, Hillbrook, Hillcrest, and Knox Hill.


Here is a description of Lex Fori from Wikipedia. This is a start...but I'm sure there is a more complete explanation somewhere:


In Conflict of Laws, the Latin term lex fori literally means the "law of the forum" and it is distinguished from the lex causae which is the law the forum actually applies to resolve the particular case.


Explanation
Sovereignty comes into being through a process of recognition by the international community in which a de facto state is formally accepted as a de jure state and so becomes the legitimate government with territorial control over a defined area of land and all the people who reside within its borders. One of the most important sovereign powers of any government is to enact laws and to define the extent of their application.

Some laws will apply to all the land and its peoples. Others will be of more limited application. These laws will be applied through different bodies and institutions. Some will be formally constituted as courts. Other bodies will exercise specific functions within quasi-judicial, administrative, religious or other frameworks. For example, in Pakistan, section 7 Muslim Family Law Ordinance enacted in 1961 reformed the traditional form of Islamic divorce known as the talaq by requiring that notification of the pronouncement of the talaq must be delivered to the Chairman of a local administrative unit known as the Union Council which must consider whether the parties can be reconciled. All such bodies are termed forums and each state will carefully define which laws may be considered or applied, by whom, and in which circumstances. These are the issue of jurisdiction and procedure.

When a lawsuit is instituted and the court has accepted that it has jurisdiction, the parties will normally expect the local laws to apply, reflecting a presumption of territoriality – that each state is sovereign within its own borders and the laws of no other state or international body will apply extraterritorially or supranationally. If foreign laws did apply, the state would be less than sovereign within its own borders. However, as social mobility has increased and the Internet encourages people to trade across national boundaries, a need to recognise the relevance and importance of foreign laws to dispute resolution has arisen. Hence, within the precise limits set by the lex fori, local courts may sometimes apply one or more foreign laws as the lex causae if the local politics, public policy and the dictates of justice require it. For a more complete explanation, refer to the pages on characterisation, and choice of law.

A further issue for the lex fori to consider is the situation where a dispute has already been litigated in another state. Can the foreign judgment be recognised and enforced by action in the courts of a second state? To require cases to be relitigated is expensive and time-consuming, so most states with developed legal systems have entered into mutual or multilateral treaties allowing for judgments to be enforced unless one or more specified defects can be shown (see enforcement of foreign judgments).

[Seashore]

Some say that Washington D.C. operates under the tyrannical Lex Fori.


... I've never heard of Lex Fori. What is it?


I'm still researching Lex Fori...but it seems to involve foreign law superceding local law...in certain circumstances.

It appears to me that lex fori is just a legal term. Here is an online legal dictionary explanation (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Lex+fori):

"The lex fori, or law of the jurisdiction in which relief is pursued, governs all procedural matters as distinguished from substantive rights."

[Seashore]

Here is a link which may make your hair stand on end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj0cuc559tA&feature=related. :mfr_omg:


I couldn't watch more than about 30 seconds...

[orthodoxymoron]

Skip the first 3 or 4 minutes. I included the link because of the part about the United States...although the first part may be part of the big picture for the U.S. The clip is not tactful...but I think it contains information which should be considered. Further research would need to be done to get a clear and accurate picture of what is really going on with the city-states.

[Malynda]

Now I need to go learn abotu city-states. I knew something was odd about D. C. besides the architecture and design. Thank you, orthodoxymoron. I will watch your video as soon as I finish listening to the current video. Multi-tasking rules! :lol3:

[777 The Great Work]

You all will Njoy this video- DC Street Sorcery.:thumb_yello:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS312&q=DC%20Sorcery&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#q=DC+street+Sorcery&hl=en&emb=0

Constitution= Cost-N-Tuition :thumb_yello:

[Seashore]

Skip the first 3 or 4 minutes. I included the link because of the part about the United States...although the first part may be part of the big picture for the U.S. The clip is not tactful...but I think it contains information which should be considered. Further research would need to be done to get a clear and accurate picture of what is really going on with the city-states.

Okay. I just finished watching. I took four pages of notes.

I thought the District of Columbia and Washington, DC were the same thing. The District of Columbia is actually within Washington? It's ten square miles of land in the heart of Washington?

It has its own flag?? It has its own Constitution?? This Constitution is associated with "tyrannical Roman law" lex fori, which "has no resemblance to the US Constitution"?

The Act of 1871 created a separate, corporate government for the District of Columbia, which allows it to operate outside the US Constitution? Is this true?

A 13th Amendment to the Constitution, ratified in 1810, called the "Titles of Nobility and Honour," no longer appears in the US Constitution? Is this true?

Did the War of 1812 destroy ratification records of the US Constitution?

Is the United States a corporation?

Thank you, orthodoxymoron, for posting this video.

Avalon members, please help me verify this stuff. :mfr_omg:

[orthodoxymoron]

You all will Njoy this video- DC Street Sorcery.:thumb_yello:
http://video.google.com/videosearch?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS312&q=DC%20Sorcery&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#q=DC+street+Sorcery&hl=en&emb=0

Constitution= Cost-N-Tuition :thumb_yello:


Thank-you for this link. I knew about occult symbolism in Washington D.C...but I didn't realize how extensive it really is. I liked the suggestion of the host...that our representatives remain in their districts...and communicate via internet, etc...and stay away from this haunted town...which is full of lobbyists, satanists, prostitutes, republicans, and sinners. Many well meaning and patriotic people have gone to Washington D.C. with high hopes...but quickly became corrupt and evil. Maybe someday Washington D.C. will be a collection of museums...and the government will largely function electronically, and from a different location...possibly underground...with the U.S. Constitution firmly and unalterably in place.

[Seashore]

...which is full of ... republicans...

What is your meaning here?

[Malynda]

A 13th Amendment to the Constitution, ratified in 1810, called the "Titles of Nobility and Honour," no longer appears in the US Constitution? Is this true?

Quick search yielded this result...

Titles of Nobility Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titles_of_Nobility_Amendment)
"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain, any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them." Wikipedia entry

Much more info if you follow the link, of course.

[orthodoxymoron]

What is your meaning here?

It's just a play on words. Jesus spoke of publicans and sinners...and I changed it to republicans and sinners. I don't have anything(much) against republicans. I'm a paleoconservative republican.

[orthodoxymoron]

Here is another upsetting link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klwWcp9eiPw. :shocked: :mfr_omg: :shocked:

[Malynda]

Here is another upsetting link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klwWcp9eiPw. :shocked: :mfr_omg: :shocked:

Started watching this and got at far as Executive Order 12803 and had to search...

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=23625&st=&st1=

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1992.html#12803

If you have not seen America: Freedom to Fascism, take a look-see. Very in-depth info on the income tax being illegal and the IRS.

I'm sure more questions and info will come as I watch. Hope this helps.

[Seashore]

Titles of Nobility Amendment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titles_of_Nobility_Amendment)
"If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive or retain, any title of nobility or honour, or shall, without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them." Wikipedia entry

Much more info if you follow the link, of course.

Okay, the Wikipedia entry says that it dates from 1810 but it was never ratified, whereas the video gives the same date but says it was ratified.

However, I guess the important thing is that the video states that after the Revolutionary War, in the Paris Peace Treaty of 1783, that the King of England was identified as the Prince of the United States and that the treaty contradicts the belief that America won the war. It says that the king retained his right to continue to receive payments for his business venture of colonizing America, and that we agreed to pay debts and reparations to the King of England. It says the 13th Amendment was passed to make the President subservient to the King of England.

[Malynda]

Okay, the Wikipedia entry says that it dates from 1810 but it was never ratified, whereas the video gives the same date but says it was ratified.

However, I guess the important thing is that the video states that after the Revolutionary War, in the Paris Peace Treaty of 1783, that the King of England was identified as the Prince of the United States and that the treaty contradicts the belief that America won the war. It says that the king retained his right to continue to receive payments for his business venture of colonizing America, and that we agreed to pay debts and reparations to the King of England. It says the 13th Amendment was passed to make the President subservient to the King of England.

I'm confused by the yes it was ratified, no it wasn't. I'm going to look into the Paris Peace Treaty and more on this amendment. Any info or sources you have would be great. Thanks for the discussion. I'm a bit angry at all this but that's a good thing I guess. :lol3:

Any lawyers out there that can help translate legalese, pretty please?

[Seashore]

Okay. I just finished watching....It has its own Constitution?? This Constitution is associated with "tyrannical Roman law" lex fori, which "has no resemblance to the US Constitution"?

I can't find anything on this. It appears to me that this is not true...

[orthodoxymoron]

In the video documentary 'Ring of Power' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj0cuc559tA&feature=related the following assertion is made: 'The flag of the Washington District of Columbia has three red stars. One for each city state in the empire. This empire rules the world economically through London's "City", militarily by the District of Columbia, and spiritually by the Vatican. The Constitution for the District of Columbia operates under a tyrannical Roman law known as the lex fori and has no similarities to the U.S. Constitution'. http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v308/__show_article/_a000308-000266.htm Another 'Ring of Power' assertion is that 'When Congress passed the Act of 1871 it created a separate corporate government for the District of Columbia. This treasonous act allowed the District of Columbia to operate as a corporation outside the original constitution of the United States and outside of the best interest of American citizens.' The following are links which touch on the subject of this thread.
I am neither confirming or denying the validity or accuracy of the links.
http://greyfalcon.us/The%20Empire%20Never%20Ended.htm
http://www.luisprada.com/Protected/secret_societies_and_their_power.htm
http://home.earthlink.net/~walterk1/Patr/US/USPagan.html
http://www.theconspiracyexplained.com/USA.html
http://www.rense.com/general74/vattt.htm
http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v308/__show_article/_a000308-000266.htm
http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/wash/dc76.htm
http://www.aoc.gov
http://www.senate.gov
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Capitol%20Hill%20congress&w=all&s=int
http://dc.about.com/cs/walkingtours/a/Capitol.htm
http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=int&q=Capitol+Hill+dome+inside&m=text

[Seashore]

The flag of the Washington District of Columbia has three red stars. One for each city state in the empire. This empire rules the world economically through London's "City", militarily by the District of Columbia, and spiritually by the Vatican. The Constitution for the District of Columbia operates under a tyrannical Roman law known as the lex fori and has no similarities to the U.S. Constitution.

orthodoxymoron,

Is the above quote your own assertions or are you quoting the video here?

http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v308/__show_article/_a000308-000266.htm

In the above link, who or what is the "Z X C"? And beginning with the sixth paragraph, there are quotation marks but it doesn't say who is being quoted. Do you know? Is this site a blog that you're familiar with?

[orthodoxymoron]

orthodoxymoron,

Is the above quote your own assertions or are you quoting the video here?

In the above link, who or what is the "Z X C"? And beginning with the sixth paragraph, there are quotation marks but it doesn't say who is being quoted. Do you know? Is this site a blog that you're familiar with?


Just quoting the 'Ring of Power' video which we were discussing. No...I simply copied and pasted the links. Here is one more, which may or may not, have a bearing on sovereignty and the Constitution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCMNu1ToWPA.

[Seashore]

In the video documentary 'Ring of Power' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj0cuc559tA&feature=related the following assertion is made: 'The flag of the Washington District of Columbia has three red stars. One for each city state in the empire. This empire rules the world economically through London's "City", militarily by the District of Columbia, and spiritually by the Vatican. The Constitution for the District of Columbia operates under a tyrannical Roman law known as the lex fori and has no similarities to the U.S. Constitution'. http://www.newciv.org/nl/newslog.php/_v308/__show_article/_a000308-000266.htm

Did you insert the link to the newslog to show that the "Constitution" for the District of Columbia alleged in the video is actually the Act of 1871? Because I see no reference to a Constitution for the District of Columbia in the newslog post. And this is important. Let's leave the corporation status out of the discussion for the present. I'm interested in the allegation of a separate Constitution for the District of Columbia that bears no resemblance to the US Constitution...

[orthodoxymoron]

Did you insert the link to the newslog to show that the "Constitution" for the District of Columbia alleged in the video is actually the Act of 1871? Because I see no reference to a Constitution for the District of Columbia in the newslog post. And this is important. Let's leave the corporation status out of the discussion for the present. I'm interested in the allegation of a separate Constitution for the District of Columbia that bears no resemblance to the US Constitution...

No...the link was present in the material which I copied and pasted: http://www.lanksamling.se/blogg/eng3kronstater.html No quotation marks were originally present...and I did not realize that it was a quote from 'Ring of Power' until you inquired about it. Your desire to not discuss the corporation status issue is understandable. I feel no particular need to examine this potentially important issue presently. Regarding a constitution for the District of Columbia...this could be a misstatement by 'Ring of Power'. It may have been an inference that the U.S. Constitution could be vetoed by Lex Fori...which might imply that a U.S. President could be ordered to act in an unconstitutional manner by an individual, court, or organization outside of Washington D.C...or even outside of the United States. This, of course, is merely conjecture...and the subject is in need of further study. The only reference I could locate regarding a Washington D.C. constitution was in a chronology which I found on narpac.org http://www.narpac.org/ITXDCHIS.HTM :

November 4, 1980: District electors approve the District of Columbia Statehood Constitutional Convention of 1979, which became D.C. Law 3-171 and which called for convening a state constitutional convention.

November 2, 1982: After the constitutional convention, a Constitution for the State of New Columbia is ratified by District voters.

[Seashore]

I'm still researching Lex Fori...but it seems to involve foreign law superceding local law...in certain circumstances. While researching, I found this regarding the three city-states. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this information, but I have seen the same information elsewhere. Here is the link to the site http://www.911truth.ch/SMOM.html

Here is what the above link says about DC being a corporation:

"The 'District of Columbia Act of 1871' turned D.C. into a municipal corporation."

So it's a "municipal corporation."

Here is what an online legal dictionary says a municipal corporation is:

"...A municipal corporation is a city, town, village, or borough that has governmental powers. A municipality is a city, town, village, or, in some states, a borough. A corporation is an entity capable of conducting business. Cities, towns, villages, and some boroughs are called municipal corporations because they have the power to conduct business with the private sector....

...Municipal corporations are an important feature of the political structure of the United States. Incorporating a municipality gives it the freedom to form a society that is distinct from other localities in the state and around the country. This idea of local control is the same concept that animates the constitutional division of the country into a collection of smaller states. By giving municipalities some autonomy, individuals are more capable of participating in politics and gaining a measure of control over their lives than if political activity occurred only on the federal and state levels."

Here is the link to the full definition:

Municipal Corporation (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Municipal+Corporation)

I think the word "municipal" makes all the difference...

[Seashore]

The only reference I could locate regarding a Washington D.C. constitution was in a chronology which I found on narpac.org http://www.narpac.org/ITXDCHIS.HTM :

November 4, 1980: District electors approve the District of Columbia Statehood Constitutional Convention of 1979, which became D.C. Law 3-171 and which called for convening a state constitutional convention.

November 2, 1982: After the constitutional convention, a Constitution for the State of New Columbia is ratified by District voters.

This is a record of the effort to make DC a state...

I wonder whether we can find the text of the "District of Columbia Act of 1871"...

[orthodoxymoron]

Here is yet another link: http://www.byronwine.com/files/1871.pdf. It is a discussion of the 1871 issue...which I don't necessarily endorse. I'm just passing it on. This isn't my issue. Actually...I'm much more interested in Constructive Competition, Positive Response Ability, and Constitutional Responsible Freedom...as it relates to the U.S. Constitution. I'm more interested in reading the Federalist Papers and Anti-Federalist Papers...and learning more about the founding of the United States and the formulation of the Constitution. I'm more interested in constitutional law and in how the Constitution is applied each and every day. I don't know a lot about all of the above...but I am making progress. Here is a positive approach to the Constitution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY5vO64CIfA&feature=related.

[Seashore]

Here is yet another link: http://www.byronwine.com/files/1871.pdf. It is a discussion of the 1871 issue...

And here's a different link:

The United States Isn't a Country — It's a Corporation! by Lisa Guliani (http://www.serendipity.li/jsmill/us_corporation.htm)

Lisa states:

"...The date is February 21, 1871 and the Forty-First Congress is in session. I refer you to the "Acts of the Forty-First Congress," Section 34, Session III, chapters 61 and 62. On this date in the history of our nation, Congress passed an Act titled: "An Act To Provide A Government for the District of Columbia." This is also known as the "Act of 1871." What does this mean? Well, it means that Congress, under no constitutional authority to do so, created a separate form of government for the District of Columbia, which is a ten mile square parcel of land....

In essence, this Act formed the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. Note the capitalization, because it is important. This corporation, owned by foreign interests, moved right in and shoved the original "organic" version of the Constitution into a dusty corner. With the "Act of 1871," our Constitution was defaced in the sense that the title was block-capitalized and the word "for" was changed to the word "of" in the title. The original Constitution drafted by the Founding Fathers, was written in this manner:

'The Constitution for the united states of America'.

The altered version reads: "THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". It is the corporate constitution. It is NOT the same document you might think it is. The corporate constitution operates in an economic capacity and has been used to fool the People into thinking it is the same parchment that governs the Republic. It absolutely is not."

_______________________________________________

I found a link to the actual legislation:

American Memory (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=016/llsl016.db&recNum=454)

The author Lisa must be mistaken when she says "Acts of the Forty-First Congress," Section 34... because I see that "Sections" are subtitles of a "Chapter," not a "Congress." (There is a Section 34 of chapter 62, however.)

Also, chapter 61 (pages 417 - 419) is entitled "Consular and Diplomatic Expenses Appropriation," so I don't know why she includes it.

Additionally, I see from the index that chapter 60 is missing.

Here is a copy of that index page:

http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llsl/016/0000/0019r017.gif

Here is a copy of the first page of the legislation, which is too long to post (pages 419 - 429). It begins half way down the page:

http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llsl/016/0400/04550419.gif

Here is a copy of the Section 34 of chapter 62. It appears to be unrelated to the issue:

http://memory.loc.gov/ll/llsl/016/0400/04620426.gif

I'm thinking that what this author Lisa Guliani must be saying is that subsequent to this legislation, our Constitution title changed to all capital letters, indicating corporate status. She says the Constitution originally read "The Constitution for the united states of America" and now it reads "THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA." I wonder whether we can verify this...

David Icke writes about the significance of names written in all caps...

Hmmm...

_______________________________________________


Additional research: A direct response to Lisa's assertions, by G. Edward Griffin (http://www.freedom-force.org/freedomcontent.cfm?fuseaction=US_corporation&refpage=issues)

[Malynda]

Just quoting the 'Ring of Power' video which we were discussing. No...I simply copied and pasted the links. Here is one more, which may or may not, have a bearing on sovereignty and the Constitution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCMNu1ToWPA.


Now that was a trippy video. Sure looks like a grey but who knows with all the tricks you can do. Does make me go "hmmm" though.

[orthodoxymoron]

I'm just trying to sample a lot of different things and points of view...but not get bogged down on any one thing...or take anything too seriously. Here is yet another viewpoint on Washington D.C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eynHqvaEyuU&feature=related.

[Malynda]

I'm just trying to sample a lot of different things and points of view...but not get bogged down on any one thing...or take anything too seriously. Here is yet another viewpoint on Washington D.C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eynHqvaEyuU&feature=related.

I've been living with eyes wide shut. Thanks for that interesting video. I'm with you. I look at lots of different points of view but am not necessarily buying into anything. It just helps to clear out the cobwebs and make me more aware.

[orthodoxymoron]

seashore: Nice job researching. I would need to hear constitutional lawyers or university professors or seasoned researchers debate the issue of constitutional corruption. Everything needs to be reexamined in a rational manner. We have taken a lot of things for granted...and trusted a lot of people and institutions in an unquestioning way. This is obviously changing. I just hope and pray that when we throw out the bathwater...we don't throw out the baby as well. Forums such as Avalon may help us to arrive at correct conclusions...and achieve appropriate responses.

[Seashore]

And I'm praying that the military and the police are reading this forum. I hope they will come through for us, rather than for the powers that be...

Look at this!! :original: "Oath Keepers Orders We Will NOT Obey Full Length Video" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf2K4-BQYAI)

[orthodoxymoron]

Just Following Orders vs Responding Responsibly

[Seashore]

A reading of the Bill of Rights (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENiBuwkScEA&feature=related)...

[Seashore]

"Even more shocking to many Americans is the notion that the Bill of Rights is intended to protect our rights from officials and personnel of the federal government...

Our American ancestors were easily able to avoid conflating the federal government and the private sector. They had learned an important lesson from history and from personal experience, a lesson that unfortunately has been lost on many modern-day Americans: the greatest threat to the freedom and well-being of a citizenry lies not with foreigners but rather with their own government, especially a government with a large standing military force... "

These quotes are taken from an essay entitled "Do We Still Need the Bill of Rights? by Jacob G. Hornberger, Posted December 10, 2008. (http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0808a.asp)

[Seashore]

...Finally, a Constitutional Convention would be a disaster...

By "Constitutional Convention," are you referring to the same thing as Stewart Swerdlow in his "Illuminati News" (http://expansions.com/News.cfm?DOP=2009-2-1&pnl=1_2)?

"February 1, 2009
End Of USA

Quietly, with no media coverage, each state of the US is looking at a Constitutional Convention, which would in affect, eradicate the US as we know it, paving the way to the North American Union.

Only two more states are needed to ratify the call for the Convention, which would edit and rewrite the Constitution.

Obama is in favor of this--which may be why he is in office."

[Seashore]

By "Constitutional Convention," are you referring to the same thing as Stewart Swerdlow in his "Illuminati News" (http://expansions.com/News.cfm?DOP=2009-2-1&pnl=1_2)?

"February 1, 2009
End Of USA

Quietly, with no media coverage, each state of the US is looking at a Constitutional Convention, which would in affect, eradicate the US as we know it, paving the way to the North American Union.

Only two more states are needed to ratify the call for the Convention, which would edit and rewrite the Constitution.

Obama is in favor of this--which may be why he is in office."

"Having witnessed the difficulties and dangers experienced by the first Convention which assembled under every propitious circumstance, I should tremble for the result of a second." ~ James Madison

This is a quote from this article: "Another Constitutional Convention?" (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85451)

[Seashore]

Has the Constitution never really meant anything, or has it already been eliminated and it's too late?

[orthodoxymoron]

By "Constitutional Convention," are you referring to the same thing as Stewart Swerdlow in his "Illuminati News" (http://expansions.com/News.cfm?DOP=2009-2-1&pnl=1_2)?

"February 1, 2009
End Of USA

Quietly, with no media coverage, each state of the US is looking at a Constitutional Convention, which would in affect, eradicate the US as we know it, paving the way to the North American Union.

Only two more states are needed to ratify the call for the Convention, which would edit and rewrite the Constitution.

Obama is in favor of this--which may be why he is in office."

Yes, this is exactly what I am referring to. It's like trying to change the foundation of the Sears Tower or the Empire State Building. This would place everything up for grabs...and throw the Constitution to the hungry dogs...to be ripped to pieces.

If Obama's citizenship issue raises it's ugly head...there may have to be a Constitutional Convention to keep him in office. This would likely result in civil unrest and even rioting...which might be the trigger for martial law...and the suspension of the Constitution. Just speculation.

Other countries of the world may need to step up to the plate for the cause of responsible freedom. This is a worldwide issue. It is a fundamental ethical issue...and not a cultural or regional matter.

[Seashore]

Because it is not too long, I have copied and pasted the Bill of Rights, just to remind us all what is included:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Amendment III
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

______________________________________________

Here's the link that I copied and pasted from:

Bill of Rights Text (http://www.jmu.edu/madison/gpos225-madison2/bill_of_rights_text.htm)


http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/homeimages/ammemicon.gif

Here is an excerpt from Gales & Seaton's History of Debates in Congress (Library of Congress website) (http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llac&fileName=001/llac001.db&recNum=221) concerning James Madison's effort to bring about the Bill of Rights:

"AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTION

Mr. MADISON rose... I wish, among other reasons why something should be done, that those who have been friendly to the adoption of this constitution may have the opportunity of proving to those who were opposed to it that they were as sincerely devoted to liberty and a Republican Government, as those who charged them with wishing the adoption of this constitution in order to lay the foundation of an aristocracy or despotism...

...I think we should obtain the confidence of our fellow-citizens, in proportion as we fortify the rights of the people against the encroachments of the Government."

[Seashore]

Here is a website that I discovered today: Freedom.org (now Freedom21.org). (http://www.freedom.org/index.html)

http://www.freedom21.org/art/freedom21-logo525-150.jpg

They are announcing a conference to be held in Oklahoma August 13 - 15, 2009 entitled "The Growing American Tyranny and How to Stop It"...

http://www.freedom.org/f21-banner-4.jpg

[peaceandlove]

Seattle Regional Conference Fliers

Campaign for Liberty Conference Memorial Weekend

Posted by Matt Hawes on 05/15/09 4:52 PM

It's hard to believe that May is halfway over and next weekend is Memorial Day Weekend! We're excited about our upcoming Regional Conference in Seattle and are looking forward to a great time of inspiration, training, and networking.

We've added a couple of fliers about the event to our "Handouts" section to help those of you in the Northwest area spread the word about the Conference.

This flier emphasizes our free and open to the public Freedom Celebration with Dr. Paul and Tom Woods (taking place on Friday, May 22):

http://i43.tinypic.com/izm07o.jpg

And thanks to Michael Nystrom over at the Daily Paul for allowing us to add his great fliers.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2ce5aac.jpg

Get the full-size version here, and click here for a smaller, four-to-a-page PDF.

Check out our Seattle Regional Conference event page for full agenda, registration, sponsorship, hotel, and travel details. If you are unable to make it out, consider sponsoring a student to attend.

EVENT INFORMATION PAGE: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/event/2009seattle.php

Source for article and links within article: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/blog.php?view=18259&cpg=1#comments

[TtC]

I bet very, few if any, of you actually know that the the Constitution is not a legally binding contract and has, when brought up in a court of law, been thrown out because it is not legally binding. It only ever applied to those people who were alive at the time of its writing and were asked if they chose to live by it. Do you know why government exists? What is its purpose?

Even the foundation upon which the United States is based is a farce, but people still believe they have standing based on it.

[sleepingnomore]

Have we let things slip through apathy and neglect...or have we been infiltrated and subverted by forces outside of the United States?


I tend to think the last scenario, right from the beginning of our nation. The real power always cloaks itself to continue agendas unhindered.

[Seashore]

I bet very, few if any, of you actually know that the the Constitution is not a legally binding contract and has, when brought up in a court of law, been thrown out because it is not legally binding. It only ever applied to those people who were alive at the time of its writing and were asked if they chose to live by it. Do you know why government exists? What is its purpose?

Even the foundation upon which the United States is based is a farce, but people still believe they have standing based on it.

Please elaborate on this. Can you give an example of a court case? And what do you mean the foundation is a farce? How so? Do you remember where you got these ideas from? A book, or article, or something?

[Seashore]

I tend to think the last scenario, right from the beginning of our nation. The real power always cloaks itself to continue agendas unhindered.

Do you have any ideas about what we (as citizens) should be doing?

[Seashore]

On another thread I read the phrase the "masonic constitution," and because I've seen discussions about the founding fathers being mostly masons, I googled this to see what I could find.

I found a website that lists the signers of the Constitution and whether or not they were Freemasons. I see that James Madison, considered the father of the Constitution, is listed as "no evidence of Masonic membership."

Also of interest is that the site says only 33% of the signers were masons--not the majority as is often alleged.

Here's what the page on the website states:

"Freemasons & the U.S. Constitution

The purpose of this webpage is to present information about Freemasons and the U.S. Constitution. Most of the information comes from a booklet, Masonic Membership of the Signers of the Constitution of the United States, published by the Masonic Service Association, and written by Bro. Ronald E. Heaton. It was originally published in 1962, reprinted in 1986.

Please feel free to contact me with information, suggestions, or corrections about the information on this site. You can contact me by clicking on my name: Paul M. Bessel."

He states in his biography on the site that he is a Freemason and lists his Freemason history.

Here's the link:

http://bessel.org/constmas.htm

[orthodoxymoron]

I am more concerned with the document than I am with the affiliations of those who authored and signed it. I think there are good Masons and bad Masons. I have real problems with the very top levels of Freemasonry. I think that they are dealing with the devil. But this doesn't mean that top level Freemasons can't be good people. They may have seen the darkest of the dark...and appreciate the light more than most. I can't judge their souls.

I'm trying to read the 'Federalist Papers' and the 'Anti-Federalist Papers' but I am finding this to be slow going. It takes some discipline and work to really get into this material...but I think that it's absolutely foundational. I'm thinking this a good way to understand the issues surrounding the short and simple Constitution. You want a very short and concise binding document. You know...'Keep It Simple Stupid'. If it gets too long and complex...it loses it's effectiveness. You want a simple central concept(responsible freedom) supported by a simple central legal document. Then...through the concept of Comprehensive Concentration...one can breath life into the document.

So...in a sense...you are correct...that focusing on the actual document may be a mistake. One should not neglect the document...or allow it to be trampled upon...but the real excitement is in the surrounding information, implications, ramifications, and application of the document. The two books mentioned can help to accomplish this.

[Seashore]

...So...in a sense...you are correct...that focusing on the actual document may be a mistake...

You must be referring to the other thread here...

[orthodoxymoron]

It applies to both threads.

[Seashore]

Here is a link which may make your hair stand on end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj0cuc559tA&feature=related...


Okay. I just finished watching. I took four pages of notes...The District of Columbia...has its own Constitution??

This video is part of the documentary Ring of Power; Empire of the City by Amenstop Productions. I was so impressed with it that I purchased the DVD set for any additional features it might include, etc. On the DVD box was an URL for a website associated with Amenstop Productions, www.helpfreetheearth.com.

From the website I got the name of the producer, Grace Powers, and her email address.

I emailed her asking her the source for the assertion that the District of Columbia has its own Constitution.

Her response was to read The Empire of the City by E. C. Knuth. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21CSCZ2Q23L._SL500_AA180_.jpg Well, I purchased the book, and I've just finished perusing the table of contents and the index, and scanning the pages about the Constitution of the United States, but I can't find one word about a Constitution for the District of Columbia...

Does anyone have any info on this?

[Seashore]

...I emailed her asking her the source for the assertion that the District of Columbia has its own Constitution.

Her response was to read The Empire of the City by E. C. Knuth. http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21CSCZ2Q23L._SL500_AA180_.jpg Well, I purchased the book, and I've just finished perusing the table of contents and the index, and scanning the pages about the Constitution of the United States, but I can't find one word about a Constitution for the District of Columbia...

Does anyone have any info on this?

This post must show where the assertion originates from:

The only reference I could locate regarding a Washington D.C. constitution was in a chronology which I found on narpac.org http://www.narpac.org/ITXDCHIS.HTM :

November 4, 1980: District electors approve the District of Columbia Statehood Constitutional Convention of 1979, which became D.C. Law 3-171 and which called for convening a state constitutional convention.

November 2, 1982: After the constitutional convention, a Constitution for the State of New Columbia is ratified by District voters.

And there's this:

"...In 1982 elected delegates to a District of Columbia statehood convention drafted a constitution for the proposed State of New Columbia. The petition for statehood was approved by voters within the District and sent to Congress. But in 1993 Congress voted on and rejected District statehood by 63 votes (277 against, 153 for, and four not voting)..."

Here's the link:

http://www.city-data.com/states/District-of-Columbia-State-government.html

The Ring of Power video states the year 1982 as the year the "city-state" of the District of Columbia was officially created. But how can it be so if in 1993 Congress voted against District statehood and its associated Constitution?

[Seashore]

Here's another issue I have with the Ring of Power documentary. It says that the Treaty of 1783 that ended the Revolutionary War identifies the King of England as a prince of the United States.

The link to the treaty on the Library of Congress website shows that the treaty does say, "...It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the Grace of God King of Great Britain...and of the United States of America, to forget..." But of course this is naming the two parties, it is not saying that George the Third was Prince of the United States...

Here's the link:
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=008/llsl008.db&recNum=93

[Seashore]

Here's another issue I have with the Ring of Power documentary. It says that the Treaty of 1783 that ended the Revolutionary War identifies the King of England as a prince of the United States...

I emailed the producer Grace Powers about this.

Here is her response:

"Please visit this website in answer to your Prince George question.

www.historyplace.com/unitedstates/revolution/treaty-paris2.htm

The Paris Peace Treaty

In the name of the most holy and undivided Trinity.

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the grace of God, king of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, arch- treasurer and prince elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc., and of the United States of America..."

***
Here is my response to her answer:

"It's identifying the two parties that the Divine Providence is pleased to dispose the hearts of to forget all past misunderstandings and differences; that's all. It's not saying prince of the United States:

It having pleased the Divine Providence to dispose the hearts of the most serene and most potent Prince George the Third, by the grace of God, king of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, defender of the faith, duke of Brunswick and Lunebourg, arch- treasurer and prince elector of the Holy Roman Empire etc., and of the United States of America, to forget all past misunderstandings and differences that have unhappily interrupted the good correspondence and friendship which they mutually wish to restore, and to establish such a beneficial and satisfactory intercourse, between the two countries upon the ground of reciprocal advantages and mutual convenience as may promote and secure to both perpetual peace and harmony; and having for this desirable end already laid the foundation of peace and reconciliation by the Provisional Articles signed at Paris on the 30th of November 1782, by the commissioners empowered on each part, which articles were agreed to be inserted in and constitute the Treaty of Peace proposed to be concluded between the Crown of Great Britain and the said United States, but which treaty was not to be concluded until terms of peace should be agreed upon between Great Britain and France and his Britannic Majesty should be ready to conclude such treaty accordingly; and the treaty between Great Britain and France having since been concluded, his Britannic Majesty and the United States of America, in order to carry into full effect the Provisional Articles above mentioned, according to the tenor thereof, have constituted and appointed, that is to say his Britannic Majesty on his part, David Hartley, Esqr., member of the Parliament of Great Britain, and the said United States on their part, John Adams, Esqr., late a commissioner of the United States of America at the court of Versailles, late delegate in Congress from the state of Massachusetts, and chief justice of the said state, and minister plenipotentiary of the said United States to their high mightinesses the States General of the United Netherlands; Benjamin Franklin, Esqr., late delegate in Congress from the state of Pennsylvania, president of the convention of the said state, and minister plenipotentiary from the United States of America at the court of Versailles; John Jay, Esqr., late president of Congress and chief justice of the state of New York, and minister plenipotentiary from the said United States at the court of Madrid; to be plenipotentiaries for the concluding and signing the present definitive treaty; who after having reciprocally communicated their respective full powers have agreed upon and confirmed the following articles."

_______________________________________________

I think it's safe to say the documentary is incorrect in the assertion that the Treaty of 1783 identifies the King of England as a Prince of the United States...

[Seashore]

But how can it be so if in 1993 Congress voted against District statehood and its associated Constitution?

I emailed Grace Powers about this as well.

Her response was to refer me to this website:

http://www.lanksamling.se/blogg/eng3kronstater.html

Here is the "About Me" info for this blog:

http://www.lanksamling.se/blogg/carl.jpg

Im Carl Grinde and I made this blog. Im an artist from sweden, into photography and I also do other things.
For the moment a little unemployed but im selling a few photos now and then.
Besides this site I've also made:
http://www.flowchannel.com searh engine for music
http://www.hafwero.se My photos
http://www.lanksamling.se art, photo, food, garden etc. Useful stuff.
Every one must fight against the new dictatorship-world order in their own way. They uses the economic crisis to strengthen their global power. Read also about HAARP. The official presentation that it is to study the weather is a lie. They do something else. HAARP is their ulitimate weapon of mass destruction. Soon we will be told how we have to come together to solve all the **** crises Illuminati deliberately created. Global Governmental platforms are slowly being formed within the UN. Soon we have global taxation. A chip in your hand to keep track of potential terrorists. It is sick.

Contact me at carlgrinde@live.se
If you don´t get a personal response on your e-mail, it probably never reached me.

Peace
/Carl

[Seashore]

...a rally to rescind the Patriot Act. A rally on the National Mall...


http://a.abcnews.com/images/GMA/nc_aerial_080425_ssh.jpg


We need to do this.

With: an army of cameras recording it and a web cast...

[Seashore]

There is an organization called the Constitutional Alliance which has the following mission statement (http://www.stoprealidcoalition.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5&Itemid=15):


Mission Statement of the Constitutional Alliance


This Constitutional Alliance is a coalition of individuals and groups committed to preserving state and national sovereignty, the unalienable rights to life, liberty, and property as pronounced in the Declaration of Independence and protected under the Bill of Rights.

We see the following as some of the greatest threats to these unalienable rights:

* The collection and storage of biometric data into a single global biometric identification system;
* the Trans-Texas Corridor and other Super Corridor systems;
* the Security and Prosperity Partnership effort, in all its permutations, and the effort to create a North American Union;
* the overarching effort called Sustainable Development/Agenda 21, a mechanism under which all these threats operate.

The Alliance sees these threats connected via a goal of assimilating the United States into a global system of government and economic control. Each threat operates with and connects to the other and is implemented by harmonization of regulations, contrived initiatives, and egregious laws such as the REAL ID Act of 2005 and the E-Passport.

Each Alliance member unequivocally supports each state's claim to sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment of the US Constitution; the alliance hereby serves notice and demands the federal government, as our agent, cease and desist all mandates that are beyond the scope of the constitutionally delegated powers contained in the Tenth Amendment, effective immediately.

_______________________________________________


A spokesperson for the Constitutional Alliance is Mark Lerner.

http://www.freedom21.org/conf/2009/art/mark-lerner-09.jpg

Mark Lerner


Mark is also a spokesperson for the Stop Real ID Coalition (http://www.stoprealidcoalition.com/).

Here is Mark speaking about the threat to our personal liberties as guaranteed by the Bill of Rights which is posed by the use of biometrics for identification:

YouTube - Mark Lerner on Real ID

[Seashore]

I've been thinking about the possibility of a rally to rescind the Patriot Act. A rally on the National Mall...

http://a.abcnews.com/images/GMA/nc_aerial_080425_ssh.jpg

The topic was not the Patriot Act, but things equally important.

:wub2: It does my heart good to see this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtdzSTfe4W8&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.infowars.com%2Fmassive-corporate-media-coverup-of-real-numbers-at-d-c-rally%2F&feature=player_embedded