Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ? [Archive]

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mudra

07-18-2009, 04:02 PM

More than one year has passed now since project Avalon was launched.
Remember the idea at the onset of this was that like minded people could meet on the forum , exchange ideas and also gather on real grounds and start to build communities that Bill and Kerry called then « Radiant zones « sowing the seeds of a better world and way of living

I discovered " by accident " that work is actually taking place in that direction and Radiant zones in progress but hardly anyone in Avalon knows about it as the information is posted on the ground crew threads that we do not all visit.

To know what progress has been made in the direction of community building is the purpose of this thread.
NorthernSanctuary is building one in Canada , and Carmen on in New Zealand. And there might be others that I don't know

I truly believe humans are not made to live in small units but more as groups or large families where life can be shared in oneness with all that is.
From these large gatherings into communities holding sound values a new world will emerge where we can all expand .

So here is a place for you to be kept up to date on this topic.
If you are actually being part of a radiant zone already or are planning to create one or would be part of one please let everyone else know about it.

Connect to each other and make it happen !

YouTube - Hopi message from Elders

Boundless love to you all
mudra

NorthernSanctuary

07-18-2009, 04:13 PM

We're doing a Rainbow RZ in the Laurentian mountains, Quebec. Here's some info:

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13844

http://i27.tinypic.com/s4oos9.jpg

Durbin

07-18-2009, 04:40 PM

Darren here, yes my family and I are looking for a ground crew around the WA,ID,OR,AZ, montana anywhere in the northwestern US states that could be gotten to briskfully in a pinch with a travel trailer in tow, its go time people.

rhythm

07-18-2009, 04:45 PM

This is great news :thumb_yello:

i feel this is the perfect time now for those of us

who are feeling that longing to come into social

communities with those of like minds ...

to live in caring sharing communities to get the balance

back into our lifes ... and live ammongst those who we feel

we can live and work with as a real team ... who have learnt

the real value thru there own investigations expireince ..

that we must return to the true values

get back to sanity ...and love the love here and now...

give somthing back to the earth

and honner all that has already been given

i am preparing now to join its only a ? of the offer

arriving as iknow it surley will . ... where and when

i shall see ...and it will be right ....

walk lightley... talk straight ... be true ..who you are ...

its time my friends

in loving service to the one .
rhythmmm...( watchin this space )

NorthernSanctuary

07-18-2009, 04:50 PM

giovonni

07-18-2009, 04:59 PM

Thank you Mudra and NorthernSanturay~ for your devoted work into this important mission, of furthering the ground crew messages :thumb_yello:

There are many PA members of the ground crew, who have been steadfastly working towards initiating and {even} building the foundations of future Radiant Zones worldwide. Networking and sharing amongst other like minded individuals is key.This discussion thread~ will hopefully enable those that are ready~ and those who are still progressing ~ in their awakening~ too share and participate in creating an open dialogue into this extremely important endeavor~ of planning and starting communities.

I look forward too sharing with all here.

:welcomeani:
giovonni

lemon_sky88

07-18-2009, 05:02 PM

My family and I (2 young one boy 3 girl 1 my fiance and I) Are in search of a like minded community that is into spiritual development and provides most food for them selves as not to be tamper with by PTB. I have many skills in the way of construction and am very creative. Im curious as to how funding is obtained to build the structures and what not for these communities? Is there a plot to further make money for basics (cloths personal care ect.) or is the goal to be completely sustainable? Thanks :original:

rhythm

07-18-2009, 05:03 PM

NorthernSanctuary

07-18-2009, 05:23 PM

Im curious as to how funding is obtained to build the structures and what not for these communities? Is there a plot to further make money for basics (cloths personal care ect.) or is the goal to be completely sustainable?

In the case for our Rainbow community, there are different possible costs, one with full time labor where the person will be contributing full time (no day job) and a higher cost if they cannot (working during the week). This allows some flexibility and also for other people to get credit for working. The community is a spiritual self-sustaining one with a goal to be self-sufficient for food/ energy. There are projects that will be developed for a community economy to make use of member skills... there is no getting around that a lot of work is required as usual to start anything from scratch, but it is also an exciting challenge and extremely relevant for our times.:original:
/NS

lemon_sky88

07-18-2009, 06:15 PM

I agree, I get excited just hearing about it . Your pics are just icing on the cake :original:. I love the idea of the reinforced structure this is real readiness. What kind of costs or what is the process if one was interested in getting involved in your particular project?

NorthernSanctuary

07-18-2009, 06:56 PM

lemon_sky88, I prefer to give that out only on request, so have sent you a pm.

Unified Serenity

07-18-2009, 07:16 PM

It's exciting to see what is being planned! My partner and I are in N. Florida, but want to move to Ashville NC area, and would love a like minded community. For the time being we are storing up items to be useful no matter where we are. I am a trained blacksmith / horse shoer, have studied various building modalities, and really like the earth ships, tire and bottle methods, and straw type construction. Hydroponics, solar, and earth friendly energy resources are also an interest of mine.

I'm an excellent gardener, and have herb / healing knowledge with plants, though my main focus is energetics.

I would love to chat with others who are making plans. Even if we are in different communities, it would be nice to have gatherings with many in regions to share information and even possibly combine efforts to lower costs, maybe even swap some help if possible. I see us as a worldwide movement to create what we desire and be that change we want.

Great thread as usual Mudra!

NorthernSanctuary

07-18-2009, 07:45 PM

Hi Unified Serenity, yes that's the idea of the Rainbow Fellowship. It is meant to be an inter-community fellowship, not restricted to the Rainbow RZ. Here's the idea:

http://i39.tinypic.com/2afjqra.jpg

Wormhole

07-18-2009, 07:54 PM

We have a community in Northern Spokane WA that is open to people of community "service to others" mind. However, since the announcement that this community will not allow firearms, people have been dropping out like flies. The woman who is at the head of this community has received contact from an elder being who stated that "no guns" was a condition of the community's survival, and the survival of the human race.

Now I hunt. I understand both sides of the equation. Search your hearts and decide without judgement. If you are interested in this community, then please contact me.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

NorthernSanctuary

07-18-2009, 07:55 PM

Great thread as usual Mudra!

Much thanks to Mudra. She and her friend Francois did the logo design. She is truly an expression of selfless LOVE many times over. :wub2: The Rainbow symbolizes the fully activated human energy system.:original:

giovonni

07-18-2009, 08:03 PM

Note, Carmen will be contributing some of her personal ideas and suggestions in time,
but here is something from her vast infomation base from the inventer physicist (John Hait)
ideas and designs on possible sustainable earth shelters
here;
John Hait's earthshelter.com website here;
http://www.earthshelters.com/

Here is a design by John Hait
of his first Umbrella House concept
http://www.norishouse.com/PAHS/images/image002.jpg
and a link to its page;
http://www.norishouse.com/PAHS/UmbrellaHouse.html

Wormhole

07-18-2009, 08:09 PM

Great design Gio! I've been designing a hobbit hole for myself as well, this has given me a few ideas!
Peace of mind,
Wormhole:thumb_yello:

NorthernSanctuary

07-18-2009, 08:14 PM

Hi giovonni,

That's a good idea that she mentioned, and it gave me the idea to use the inner court ground as a heat sink. These ideas are to store the summer heat o be reused in the winter, essentially providing a stabilised temperature and cutting any heating to none or very little.

Here's a link on some variations of John Halt's idea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasonal_thermal_store

rhythm

07-19-2009, 09:04 AM

giovonni

07-19-2009, 09:18 AM

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah!:tongue2:
rhythm's shack
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/10/16912095_ee503e75fc.jpg

rhythm

07-19-2009, 09:19 AM

rhythm

07-19-2009, 09:28 AM

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah!:tongue2:
rhythm's shack
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/10/16912095_ee503e75fc.jpg

Well i realy like that .. does it have a garage
not to keen on the paint work tho...
mmmmmmm i ll take im sure i can do somthing with it ..
its PARTYTIME at rhythmms SHACK !!!!
does eny one realy want me in there community:lmfao::nono:

artvision

07-19-2009, 11:32 AM

More than one year has passed now since project Avalon was launched.
Connect to each other and make it happen !

YouTube - Hopi message from Elders (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrPDQeNo52M)

Boundless love to you all
mudra

Thank you Mudra, for opening this subject. This subject is SOOOOO important for me, that I even didn't dare to open it. This was the reason, for which I joined to the forum, in the first place, being an older reader of Camelot and later, in spring 2008, discovered Avalon.

I want also to thank to Kerry Cassidy and Bill Ryan, for their marvelous and quite fantastic work, which opened the eyes, let's hope that for millions!

So, why it was so IMPORTANT? Because, in the fall of 2008, when the crisis started, I was so afraid of economic crash, but in a sense that even EUROS wouldn't worth anything not only US $, I mean I was afraid of a TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) scenario, that instinctively I bought a high altitude piece of land, with the intent of making myself a retreat and if crash come, not catch me with much worthless money.

So, in that 2008 I conducted a frantical search of this kind of retreat places, in ROMANIA, EU, until I find this one. When I found it I known it was ment to be. Why? I sit down on the hill's grass, with the frontview of the forest and the sun sparkling on the lake's surface and I had a peaceful feeling, a feel of oneness with the place. I felt that I belong to that place, something that I never felt in my life and I walk all around the world.

Why I considered a place good for retreat? Here it is why:

1. It is situated at 900 m above sea level, Western Romanian Carpathians, in Romania, EU
2. Deep in the forest, have somehow an access road, but is secluded from a direct access
3. Has in vicinity a village, of german ethnic background, very good with cow raising and dairy preparation
4. Has a small water spring on it, there is a large lake nearby (fishing, bathing, etc)
5. The forest provide wood and other related things.
6. Is 30 Km far, on mountain road from the nearby town (considered be the "civilization") and 90 Km from a city
7. Is more than 800 Km from Vesuvius volcano and 1000 from Thera, Santorini Volcano, in case of ashes and poison gases
8. Is far away from quake hazard of Vrancea, cca 400km and is not in the way of the crack line of propagation ( even though there is a friction between continental plates in Meridional Carpathians at 300 KM, close to city of Brasov)
8. Is isolated somehow from the air currents, so the nuclear fall in a worst scenario case will be minimum
9. The land has been divided in lots, so there are urbanism approval ready for building on it, for entire hill, where the landlord (german ethnic, very correct and easy to understand with) still has some lots not sold (I checked with him in spring 2009)
10. Has been cheap, around 13 EUROS/SqM, totally 11500 EUROS for my lot 850 Sq meters land with road access rights (take in consideration is not farm land, is for house
11. The place is secluded, is not easy spotted from main road, access just with 4x4 terrain vehicle
12. In the area there are dense woods and also caves...
13. In the winter there is very big snow, also there are mountains higher than 1200 m in the areas

But as I read many survival topics, such as Rawles, Tappan, etc and has been genially depicted, in Mudra's video clip from Hopi Elders, THE ERA OF LONE WOLF IS ENDED. This meaning that in an SHTF scenario, a family, even an extended one, will not be able to face successfully the perils. We need to raise a community.

Also, when the SHTF starts, the retreat already should be there in place and all the provisions preapred. As we are heading in fast pace, towards Oct-2011, do not mention the danger of force vaccinations, I think that a community of same idea people could confront better, the challengings, rather than a few people.

I wrote you about, to hear your opinion, what do you think about this place is good as a radiant zone, for Eastern Europe, taking in consideration worst scenarios, where the perils are man made or non-human?

Also, up to now I didn't read anything about a zone for Romania, did you?

mudra

07-19-2009, 12:38 PM

Great news Artvision.We really needed something in Europe.
That is really lovely .
Have you started to build anything there already ?

Loving kindness
mudra

DJModer

07-19-2009, 02:09 PM

Thank you very much Mudra to bring this up. It is amazing that many of us made much progress building communities. This reminds me to find more time working on this subject.

Note, Carmen will be contributing some of her personal ideas and suggestions in time,
but here is something from her vast infomation base from the inventer physicist (John Hait)
ideas and designs on possible sustainable earth shelters
here;
John Hait's earthshelter.com website here;
http://www.earthshelters.com/

Here is a design by John Hait
of his first Umbrella House concept
http://www.norishouse.com/PAHS/images/image002.jpg
and a link to its page;
http://www.norishouse.com/PAHS/UmbrellaHouse.html

Regarding the earth shelter, it may be a good idea to put some layer of lead to protect from any harmful radiation that may occur by nuclear or gamma ray.

artvision

07-19-2009, 02:26 PM

Great news Artvision.We really needed something in Europe.
That is really lovely .
Have you started to build anything there already ?

Loving kindness
mudra

Not quite, I didn't start the housing yet, but I did conceive the project, the architect finished it and is supposed to be handed for official approval. The issue is that the lack of $$$$ made me stop for the moment. Anyway, I keep a low profile for the house, the basement is half dig into the ground, made by steel reinforced concrete, which would serve as a bunker, in case high wind speed, vault, etc while the upper part, consisting as ground floor and first floor would be made by wood, having a color for blending nicely into forest background. Though the house is on a hill, is not directly into the woods (to prevent take fire, in case of a wildfire) but is hidden from the view, from the access road. (there even is not a road there, made of dirt or something). Somebody from Germany already build a vacation house, made entirely from stone and another person made a house of bricks.

There is a middle voltage power line, crossing in vicinity of land and the landlord said it would be feasible to get a transformation station for all those 20 lots there, in the future. This would be good, but for the long term we could use solar and wind energy (it is always sunshine and are some strong winds, even though my house would somehow be protected, because is not quite on the top hill.I can put some pics for the project if is of interest for somebody.

The issue, is that from my calculation a 3-4 bedroom house, made of wood would not exceed 20,000 EUROS to be build. Plus adding a 3-5000 EUROS for installation& issues. I discussed last year with a wooden house making company, they would work very cheap. Would be great if we would gather some of us (unfortunately there are not many lots left not sold), because would be cheaper for everyone, by splitting the renting of earth digging tools, the company will work cheaper and us we could do ourselves a lot of chores there, helping each other, watching for the things not getting stolen, etc. I have qualification in a lot of domains, I was a handy guy, but now I'm very lazy; a project like this would give me a shake like a kick in my beside ...:mfr_lol:

So, in the vicinity rural villages, there are persons might sell some arable lands, which would be good for farming and sustaining animal, which would make the perfect retreat. The villagers seemed very serious to me, very proud and helpful after they get to know you better. The rural community is 5-6 km away, is very good is not very far away in case SHTF and we need to defeat ourselves, but also a good distance for our privacy.

I know is a dream, but really I'm very focused on TEOTWAWKI issue, I collected a lot of books, I have an impressive collection ebooks, some from Avalon, some from SCRIBD, etc, also bought some hardcopy such Holly Deyo's Dare to prepare, lots of survival equipment: heirloom seeds, MMS, medical and dental stuff, nuclear detector, LED's head lamp, 5-season tent, sleeping bags -40 deg Celsius, Goretex clothes, mountain boots, EMP shielding, etc, etc (I spent several thousands of dollars for that, starting from spring in 2008 until late autumn, when culminated with acquisition of this piece of land; but as the crisis unfold, a lot of problems hit my business and this reflected on my financial status). The issue with the survival is much complicated as seen from the beginner view. We should have retreats prepared but also, the bug-out even from there, in case of a heavy atack, hiding in caves, etc...

A very good information, that is presented as a adventure reading is "Triple Ought" by James Wesley Rawles, which you can download from here:

http://survivalbible2001.com/SB-2001/GRAY-90.DON/001gray.htm

Also I want to thank people from Avalon, for giving me the courage to try the Miracle Mineral Supplement; :wink2:without you guys, really I wouldn't have courage to take something from internet !

So, this is it, my preparation for the TEOTWAWKI issue, not much :sad:, but the psychological part is very important. Developing a strong will, along with the skills and theoretical knowledge, even though I want be closer to the physical retreat construction and start farming and retreat experience on-the-job, seems that I have to wait some, until I will collect more money to start the construction. In the mean time I need to make lists with lots of materials and things I need there, just when the money arrive, not waste much time and buy it all in one shot, maybe I will get also a bargain for that.

If there will be no SHTF any time soon (but I doubt about that, it will happen soon):wall:, as per avoiding other family member think I'm crazy :lol3:, I can say this is a nice vacation house build in a very picturesque mountain area. It was a nice thread here on Avalon about convincing family and stuff. Really is very difficult, but this kind of vision made the difference from living or dying.

Hope that I didn't bothered you guys, with my mumbling about survival and retreats.

Swanny

07-19-2009, 03:11 PM

I'm starting to think that maybe I should join up with others. Had planned to go it alone but not so sure thats a good idea anymore :blink:

mudra

07-19-2009, 03:32 PM

Artvision,

Thanks for sharing .. by all means do.. as this gives hope to all.
I found many of us are isolated and would'nt know from where to start .
So thank you to all of you here as you Artvision, Gio, Carmen and Northernsanctuary that have already plans in mind .
Alltogether we can make it much easier than alone .
May many others join here with their ideas as this is what will bring things
into reality .
Spread the word friends .. inform others that this thread exists.
I went through all the ground crew threads today to let them know.

Would you guys care to have a chat between each other I remind you we have
a chat room that Czymra made for avalon :
You can invite people there and have a conversation .
http://tinychat.com/projectavalon

All the best .
Let's keep the focus

love from me
mudra

rhythm

07-19-2009, 04:54 PM

I'm starting to think that maybe I should join up with others. Had planned to go it alone but not so sure thats a good idea anymore :blink:

YEA swanstar ..

we can all look for thet pessky wabbit together mate :original:

giovonni

07-19-2009, 05:45 PM

Thank you very much Mudra to bring this up. It is amazing that many of us made much progress building communities. This reminds me to find more time working on this subject.

Regarding the earth shelter, it may be a good idea to put some layer of lead to protect from any harmful radiation that may occur by nuclear or gamma ray.

:thumb_yello: Very good point!
In the varied possibilities of future environmental conditions (the Sun) the use of ship containers> buried partially in the soil or a hill (as temporary emergency shelters), lined with protective metal shields and structurally reinforced concrete (with connecting walls) has been seriously considered~ It is an idea other communities might ponder as a (backup) emergency facility shelter?

ovsalf

07-19-2009, 06:01 PM

NorthernSanctuary

07-19-2009, 06:24 PM

Here's some information on radiation:

Alpha and beta radiation is more damaging to cells, but is easily blocked by normal material. Gamma radiation i very penetrating, but statistically, is likely going to pass through the material rather than tear up the atoms (it typically need 10 cm of lead to stop it). Keep in mind that once you are considering this issue, that there is a bigger issue of filtering the air in the building at all times and a requirement to have a positive air pressure on the inside. I would see that the danger of inhaling the radiative substance as much more dangerous since it stays in your body to continuously damage your cells (eg. a nuclear fallout scenario).

Here's a link on the subject:
http://www.furryelephant.com/content/radioactivity/alpha-beta-gamma-radiation/

NorthernSanctuary

07-19-2009, 06:39 PM

We did some preliminary investigation into the legal structure for communal ownership. Here's some general info (people will need to consult a lawyer for their own legal laws if interested);

1. Divided ownership
2. Undivided ownership
3. Leasing
4. Owning shares through a company

For 1: This is the condo concept. There is real (private) ownership for some parts of the building. Typically there is an owners agreement for the common parts. There is a legal entity that is created (syndicate in Quebec) and published in a register. The agreement needs to be published to be applicable to 3rd parties (a potential buyer).

For 2: This is ownership as a percentage of the whole building. A separate agreement is required for the owners, and should be registered and published. Restrictions on selling may be part of the agreement.

For 3: This is not so attractive or applicable as there is a concept of landlord and tenant, and the requirements of the landlord responsibilities to the tenant.

For 4: Was told that a good shareholders agreement would easily cost in excess of $10,000, so forget it.

Conclusion: At this point, before consulting a lawyer, it looks like the undivided ownership is the most applicable and most easy.

Northern Boy

07-19-2009, 07:07 PM

Look in areas where there have been old logging camps for paper mills and such with the economy going the way it is and many newspapers now going digital some of these may close down leaving those camps vacant everything is there buildings , bunk houses and kitchens big enough to feed many people . Most are heated by means of wood and cooking in these kitchens is by the same means . Some thing to think of. I have one picked out already the mill operating it is in Financial trouble and there is talk of the mill in this area closing . if this happens then they wood close the logging camp with it .

orthodoxymoron

07-19-2009, 08:48 PM

This sort of thing is very cool! Especially if it is not driven by fear. This should happen...even if there was no perceived threat. The attitude should be :welcomeani: rather than:mfr_omg: or :mad3:

artvision

07-19-2009, 09:19 PM

Artvision, could you please elaborate on the EMP shielding devices and techniques?

Mudra, many thanks for initiating this thread. I really appreciate how useful it will likely be in the development/interconnection of radiant zones. In fact, facing the challenges involved in Northern Sanctuary's project of creating a RZ community in the Laurentians, I am sure that this thread is very timely and that it will help our group as well as all other eventual groups to quickly progress by sharing very precious information.

Ovsalf

Hi Ovsalf, here something I know about shielding.

First of all, we should understand against what we are going to protect. So, there are known by me two types of electromagnetic waves:
- normal, usual we used in radio, TV, microwaves, satellites, etc
- scalar waves, zero point energy, ether energy, radiant energy, etc

We are usually discussing about the regular electromagnetic radiation, which has been theoretical modeled by Lorentz, Maxwell, etc. The ideea is that the wave is creating by the alternance of electric and magnetic fields (the two components of the electro-magnetic fields - thus magnetic and electric fields). The frequency of the alternance will give the frequency of the wave. In our special case we are concerned that, variance of magnetic field will induce in a wire of electric conducting material (metal, or ionic solution) an electric current. The electric current, will not close so, sort to speak nothing flows there but at the extremities of the wire unde an alternating magnetic field, if you connect a voltmeter you will read an electric tension. This tension is higher as the wire is longer and the intensity of alternating field is higher. This electric voltage, if somehow gets into a part of an electronic equipment, which is based on semiconductors (most of modern electronic devices are based on semiconductors) will lead to burning of the semiconductor devices, such as diodes, transistors or integrated circuits (chips). Of course these will lead to the malfunctioning or total destruction of the equipment.

Imagine a long wire, such an antenna, being subjected to such intense electromagnetic field (not the normal one produced by radio station) will induce at the extremities hundreds or maybe thousands of volts. This getting inside of the equipment will fry the equipment.
There is a difference between a lightening stroke the antenna, because the tension here is DC continuous, while in EMP, the high voltage is alternative. The effect is similar, burning the equipment.

So, let's com back to our wire: if the wire is long and has the extremities opened, we can collect a high tension between. Suppose that in our electronic equipment there is some metal conductor where the electromagnetic energy is inducing high voltage, this high voltage will definitely bun the sensitive semiconductors. So, what to do? In order to be safe if we take the long wire and we stick together the two ends, the circuit is closing and the current is starting to travel the wire. The tension (this is the dangerous part) will be zero, we say we short-circuited! Imagine our electronic device is surrounded by a lot of closed looped wires, that form something like a mesh sphere. As many as you add, you will obtain a better protection. Also as the wave frequency, the opening in the conducting mesh should be smaller and smaller.

This effect has been discovered by Faraday, which constructed this surrounding something as a cage, thus was call Faraday Cage. Now you understand, the we need to surround our device to be protected by a conductive mesh, which is continuous in contact all over, in order not letting any place the wave get inside. As we do not know what frequency we will be attacked, will be on the safe side if the holes in the mesh would be zero, meaning is a contiguous sheet of metal in all directions. Something like a metallic box, closed and in all the point in contact, forming a close surface, inside with our protected device. Would be more advantageous, in place of continuous sheet to use a mesh or a perforated sheet, because the electric resistance in alternative current ( it is called impedance) would be lower than in case than continuous metal surface, but we have the disadvantage, that we do not know what will be the attack frequency. So, to be on the safe side for many potential frequencies, we practically shielding with continuous metal sheet.

So we know that in the metal surface of the shielding, the electromagnetic waves will induce currents. The current will short-circuit the voltage, which otherwise will be induced in the metal parts inside our device and will burn the semiconductors. In the expected real world case, the sheet should not be thick, is enough the Aluminium foil for oven Aluminum foil, wrapped two three times. If the energy of wave would be so high, the induced currents would be so high, that the metal shield would getting hotter, then melting and then vaporizing. This would happened if you throw a ball of Aluminum foil inside a microwave oven, the energy there is constant for many seconds (in case of an attack is a pulse only of some microseconds, milliseconds), you will see that the aluminium is almost instantly burning in small incandescnd balls, until the metal is consumed or the oven is damaged or the protection will start working. So, in our real life, we not expecting such intense electromagnetic fiels such in a n microwave oven, therefore no need to put such thick shielding. Anyhow, the measurement, shown that the the electronic current is flowing just to the surface of the metal and not in depth, so no need put such thick metal sheet for protection.

These are the physical phenomenon for the normal electromagnetic waves where the Electric and Magnetic vectors are perpendicular on each other and perpendiculars on the direction of propagations.

2. The scalar waves have been discovered by many scientists but Tesla developed a lot of devices which could produce, or collect this kind of energy from universe and could be put to work. The information for that type of wave is very scarce, most of the research have been occulted by the TPTB. This waves is said to have extraordinary powers and on that kind of waves are based the HAARP weapons and many black op weapons. The difference is that the vector variation of the waves re in the same direction of propagation, thus being called longitudinal waves or scalar waves.

What events can produce EMP devastation effects on our electronics:

1. Special bombs, which are using small nuclear explosions, in higher atmosphere, creating an electromagnetic pulse, of short time (microseconds to milisecods meaning less than 1/1000 of the second even smaller) but with a high energy and covering many frequencies and harmonics. This explosion being on high altitude, will cover large surfaces rendering inutile any semiconductor electronic that have no means of protection over large areas, such hundred of square km

2. Natural solar emissions called Coronal Mass Ejection. We should see the sun as a continuos atomic explosion with some moment of an intense activity than other. Sometime, such highly increase in electromagnetic activity will cause induction of dangerous voltage in the long conductors, as has been the telegraph wires at the end of 1800's but then weren't used semiconductors and the effect wasn't devastating. The more recent effects in 1954, in Quebec, were more devastating as already start to be using semiconductors.

METHODS OF PROTECTION:

1. Better to have electronics working with vacuum tubes, without semiconductors! Remember the grandma radio Would be good have one of that. Russians have some large part of special equipment built based on vacuum tubes. Immune to this attack! Immune by default, no need to shield to protect! They have RF shielding for other reasons

2. First of all, when expect an attack of this type, you should physically separate and disconnect long wires that coming from outside, into house:
- AC energy
- Antennas
- Telephone lines

3. Small electronic devices such ipods, radios, memory sticks, etc, you should put in metal boxes, such as danish biscuit boxes, or coffee boxes, where all their caps make good electric contact on contour with the body of the box. Also all the interior walls should be covered with some isolation material. For example you can use cardboard, or air bubble plastic foil, or vinylin, etc. Whatever is good electric isolator is good. We are trying to avoid that our protected devices, provided that are metallic, such Ipods, etc, would touch the interior metallic box. For the Danish cookies, you will cut two discs which fit one to the bottom of box, anoer to the cap of the box, and also a sheet that will be coiled in a circle to protect the laterals of the box. You can use any kind of adhesive you like. The idea is that the device should not reach the metal of the box IN ANY CONDITION. Take care, how you put the isolation material, in order to not distrurb the good electric contact between the cap and the body of the box. Otherwise you ruin all the construction!

4. Bigger electronic devices, such laptops, measurement devices, etc, you will wrap with air bubble plastic foil, secured in places with scotch adhesive band, covering perfect the device. Then over the air bubble foile wrap a few times some Aluminum Oven cooking foil, but take care always the shiny face be outside the device (is netter conductive on the shiny side). When you need to take it out, just cut carefull with a cutter on one side and etract it as it were in an envelope. When you need to put back in shielding, you will just cover the cutted plastic with scotch and wrap over the cut aluminum foil, some new more foil!

5. If you want to protect a whole room, let's say you put a lot of electronics there, some radio station computers, etc: The room should be shielded on all the sides even the floor and ceiling with chicken wire with smallest as possible. Over that mesh which should be completely connected on all the edges, you will put 1/2 or 1 inch of mineral glass cotton (very good isolator. Over that you should make another shielding from aluminum plates or just Aluminum foil which should be making very good contact on the edges. The shiny part, should be towards exterior where the EMP wave will come. In just one point you should connect a muti-fillar copper meshed wire, to the chicken wire mesh network and the other sides to an very good quality earthing. Same issue also for the aluminium mesh. Over the aluminium, you can put a paint or something to look normal. This kind the Faraday double cage, connected to Earth will shield perfectly everything electronic inside, given that NO EXTERION CONDUCTIVE CABLE GET INSIDE: no AC network, no antenna, no phone line. So, when you suspect such EMP attack you should physically disconect everything is metal cable going inside in this room!

6. Because practically is impossible to predict when such attack will take place, you should apply the redundancy method: always you should have everything two or three folds. Example One laptop working, while 2 shielded, containing same information. One external Hard-drive with data, while 2 in shielded. One memory stick in use, 2 in reserve. One photo camera in use, another in protection, etc. If you have solar energy convertors, one should have as backup in shielding

So, you understand, that for shielding from EMP is enough to have a contiguous metal surface around the protected device; device shoul not physically toutch themetal shield, therefore should be put some isolator material all around the device, be it paper, cloth, air buble plastic foil, etc

There is no need to connect the metallic box to the earth. This is recommended just to large things. Anyhow imagine that airplanes, even they are shielded against EMP, they could not be connected to earthing and even so, the shield is functioning perfectly!

To have no problems with vehicles, try to have vehicles that have NO ELECTRONIC CHIPS OR SEMICONDUCTORS (but most of them they have semiconductors in rectifier diode, from alternator). Keep a spare of those rectifier diodes and avoid electronic plug igniter and starter. Avoid everything electronic, so beter use old diesel technology. Whatever is formed only by cables, circuit breakers, coils, capacitors, contacts, electro-motors, dynamos, alternators, etc, WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY EMP.

For the everything is electronic, keep one in use and another in shielded backup. (Or at least two issue, if not so expensive)
Have Electronic vacuum tube devices, which immune to EMP.
Otherwise shielding. Small boxes isolate in interior, or bigger metal boxes closing perfectly and with good electric contact on contour, isolated in interior. This would work, at least theoretically> I never real life tested, unless with my Nokia phone, I put in in such Danish Biscuits box and my RX Level descended to minimum. Sometime I wasn't able to call it (out of range message). This entrusted me that is a very good shielding.

Hope that I make very clear the phenomenon and the physics supporting that. For the scalar aka tesla aka HAARP aka radiant waves, I do not have shielding information.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2009/07/letter_re_some_details_on_the.html
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

giovonni

07-19-2009, 10:53 PM

Thanks~ too all contributing and sharing info, advice and opinions
I am finding this thread very timely~enlightening and extremely energy positive in nature:thumb_yello:

Carmen

07-19-2009, 10:58 PM

Not lead, DJ, Copper is what will shield you from radiation. Also four foot of earth will protect electrical equipment from solar radiation.

Cheers

Carmen

TtC

07-19-2009, 11:53 PM

NorthernSanctuary

07-20-2009, 01:11 AM

Hi TtC,

Glad to see you're back at the forum.:original: Mudra was mentioning the idea of a open chat as a way to further information exchange. You have such a huge resource capability, maybe we can use that as a way to let people understand a bit more of your ideas.

/NZ

giovonni

07-20-2009, 01:27 AM

DJModer

07-20-2009, 01:52 AM

Not lead, DJ, Copper is what will shield you from radiation. Also four foot of earth will protect electrical equipment from solar radiation.

Cheers

Carmen

Actually you will need both lead and copper. Thank you for bringing this up. Copper mesh can be used to shield Electromagnetic radiation (Faraday cage style) , while lead is used to shield gamma ray and x-ray.

Unified Serenity

07-20-2009, 02:05 AM

Its strange realy as i would not consider
going into a community WITH firearms ( well there.. would have to be a real good reason )hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Well, I don't know what is going to happen in the future. Will there be a cataclysm from some space object that causes mass upheaval and many types of people left on the surface to try and survive? Will unarmed communities have a chance of defending themselves against those who have no desire to join in love and friendship? Do guns cause the problem? What about crossbows, knives, or other means to defend? If mankind wants to hurt one another we don't have to have a gun to do it. Firearms are the best equalizer in confrontation as women might need to take part in defense.

I would like a world reborn in love and peace, and that is my focus. I am a realist and wonder if that energy will overcome those who want to walk in an energy of selfishness, aggression, and power through superior weaponry. Are we humans doomed to follow the most base of emotions displayed by those least spiritually evolved? We are only as strong as our weakest member of the body of oneness. Can enough people with higher loving spiritual evolution change via that energy those who walk in fear and would act out of those lower emotions?

Thus, the issue of weapons is interesting. Can you partake in battle to end aggression via killing the aggressors? If the aggressors kill those peace loving people, what will become of the world?

I don't think people who desire to have protection do so for nefarious reasons. Is it giving into fear to have a weapon to stop a madman? Would you simply allow a madman to come in and kill your community so they can have your food and shelter? Really think about that situation as happening and see what your response would be if they are determined to kill you, your family, community.

I'd love to hear how you would respond. I am not so spiritually minded that if some murderer was coming at my children and others that I would simply stand there, talk to them, and not intervene should they actually try to harm them.

I would hope that would never happen, but what if it did?

WinterWolf

07-20-2009, 02:49 AM

Here's the updated design for our community center that we are about to start building. It'll be bermed into a slope and has some design techniques to help survive an earthquake intact. Wind speed should not be a problem because of the minimum exposure and the concrete structure (3,000 lbs per sq. in concrete, 12 in. thick steel-re-enforced walls) Here' a picture:

http://i30.tinypic.com/i3x9bm.jpg

Just playing devil's advocate here but don't you think creating communities Ike this will further segregate people from society at large? How does this help those who don't understand? How does this help those who have yet reached a higher level?

Wouldn't this ony be helpful to yourself and others like us?

Just me thinking out loud. Well...typing out loud...

Winter Wolf

TtC

07-20-2009, 03:11 AM

The matter of firearms and weapons in general is a matter that usually comes up. Differentiation and use must first be defined. Anything can be a weapon, whether it is bubblewrap, duct tape, or a Remington 700. I would like to bring to your attention how it is that livestock are usually slaughtered; it's usually with a gun to the back of the head. It is considered humane by most as, if done properly, providing instant death. Would you be more willing the slit the animal's throat, let it suffocated and bleed out? Now you have knifes. They can be tools or weapons, just depending on the intentions of the wielder. They are also relatively silent.

What happens when someone goes insane? Something will have to be done as those seeking shelter and whatnot may, indeed, not be of sound mind. It's like the murderer in the camp which no one is willing to do anything about. You can kill the person and end it immediately, you can knock the person unconscious and leave him for dead in the forest somewhere, or you can do nothing and be murdered along with everyone else at which point the murder may take his own life or just die on his way to the next village of thirst, hunger, disease, etc. There is a moral dilemma. On which side will you stand?

If you have to hunt for food, what are you going to use? Even if you do have firearms, what happens when your ammunition is depleted? Do you know how to make more? Could you make black powder from scratch? Projectile weapons whether it is a gun or a bow, offer increased range as well as keeping yourself out of harms way, relatively speaking. I will not go into the everlasting debate as to gun control, children, etc.

You must also take into account that the United States is a gun toting country. Most think it their god given right to have a gun. You must also think that most people are in a state of fear when it comes to this topic and will do anything to defend themselves. This may lead to people agreeing not to have firearms and then sneaking them in. It may even lead to personal searches, at which point the governing body will be somewhat hypocritical of the current situation with the government.

I am not surprised that people are dropping like flies when you tell them no guns. There is always the question of protection and fear. It is decision that is ultimately yours.

Personally, I know how to shoot both firearms and in archery. My bow is below with broad head arrows as I hunt with it as well.

http://www.tracethecircle.com/bow.jpg

To the post by Winterwolf: Can you make them understand what is going on? Most people are not willing to be unplugged and in the event that something big happens, most will not know how to cope with it. You can only help so much.
NorthernSanctuary & Mudra: I think the open chat would be a good idea.

NorthernSanctuary

07-20-2009, 03:22 AM

Just playing devil's advocate here but don't you think creating communities Ike this will further segregate people from society at large? How does this help those who don't understand? How does this help those who have yet reached a higher level?

Wouldn't this ony be helpful to yourself and others like us?

Just me thinking out loud. Well...typing out loud...

Winter Wolf

There is value to live with people that have a common-unity of purpose. It doesn't imply that there is no interaction with other people or that you cannot have programs to involve people outside the community. Living in a separate community doesn't have to imply segregation if that's what you want. At the same time living with other people in the same building doesn't imply that you are not segregated; people can live in the same building and never know each other's name.

You're asking a very basic question of the value of living with like-minded people with shared values. From the way I see it, common purposes and goals can be better/easier accomplished this way. Even if this purpose is to help people that don't understand.

Since we are talking about evolving into a new and better society, proto-typing and trying to create one is probably a good experience to see how to make one work. There is no better way for someone that doesn't believe it can work to see one that works.

If you see this as helping yourself, it is true, but I don't see how you can help others if you don't help yourself first. There are so many analogies. As a healer, can you heal others if you do not heal yourself first?

Let me know if you still see a problem.:original:

/NS

Carmen

07-20-2009, 03:34 AM

You raise some very relevant points TtC. I think its absolutely necessary to have some guns for the very reasons you have outlined above. Its the consciousness of the user of the weapon which is the most important factor. Fear and survival consciousness will cause people to be extremely irrational and reactive if they are not prepared mentally or physically for upheavals in the coming years. Phycological/mental preparation is as important as physical preparation. People do, and should, first prepare themselves mentally for disruption to ordinary life and processes. Entertaining the what ifs and envisioning desired outcomes is the first important step to creating safety and security in the coming years.

Love and Light

Carmen

BROOK

07-20-2009, 04:40 AM

Tell ya what...lately I've been seeing such doom and gloom...I guess if we don't get into these communities...we are all gonna die. From swine flu shots, to melting away from the sun's radiation....hmmm

Well if that's the case...I wanna have a great big going away party :thumb_yello:

What happened to the nexus evolution? What happened to using the powers that we are all born with, and never use..the ones that are supposed to be changing with the energy shifts that keep getting stronger each and every time they occur?

What happened to we are all one and need to share life with the whole world?

http://www.earthrainbownetwork.com/images/WeAreAllOne.gif

Carmen

07-20-2009, 05:51 AM

Its all choice Brook. I have had the info about earth changes, conspiracies, etc for thirty years. I worked dam hard to wake up friends and family thirty years ago and was thought of as a bit odd and way out. For many years I ignored the information but I quietly started planning anyway in spite of my doubts. Its in the last few years as I have seen the predictions from thirty years ago come true that my plans and visions have consolidated. I have always wished to be of use to others, to family, friends and my community should situations become serious. A person isnt of use to anyone else if they cannot sustain themselves. They are then just part of the problem. To me it would be very stupid to not follow through on the information I have been given to prepare for an uncertain future world. Its been a huge mind shift for me, but its been great observing family and friends waking up to what is going on and making their own plans.

Nature and the animals in nature always prepare for a hard winter. We have lost our inborn instincts to do the same. Just by observing the thickness of my horses coats I can note just how hard the winter will be.

Love and LIght

Carmen

BROOK

07-20-2009, 06:06 AM

All I have to say is bless you in all your endeavors

YouTube - The Gentle and Forgotten Art of Blessings

WinterWolf

07-20-2009, 06:12 AM

Carmen

07-20-2009, 06:39 AM

BROOK

07-20-2009, 06:54 AM

With much respect Carmen....I want to add that when we focus on something it will come to pass....it's the law of attraction.

If the whole world is focused on disaster..it will come to pass.

I'm praying that the world will focus on Peace for all humanity. And then it will come to pass. For if it does not..then as I stated before..I am eternal, and I don't choose to focus on what I don't want.

If the world creates this disaster...then it will be just like the nexus thread described ...and my focus will be for eternity.

God bless you all in your endeavors....but please focus on World Peace and Love of humanity.

Farewell Avalon

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j241/karunaray/enlightenment.jpg

Jack

07-20-2009, 07:03 AM

This is such an excelent thread! Thank you guys for talking about this, the time is such that its very important.

We are already segregated. Even though we are under the illusion of unity its just not true. Any community that is formed will be more unified then anything we have already in this society. I would rather be unified with like minds in a radient zone then be segregated in our current society.

rhythm

07-20-2009, 08:55 AM

artvision

07-20-2009, 09:15 AM

:sad:Dears,

Thank you for this thread as is very good to have the opinions of so many smart and sensitive people.

First of all, I'm no considering myself a Radiant Zone starter I cannot withstand comparison with real starters as NorthernSantuary, TtC and many others, people that already build communities, people much more advanced than me that I'am a wishful thinking guy, with a piece of dirt bought and maybe some survival books read. I feel somewhat uneasy to be compared with such great people; me I feel like pigmy compared with Goliath. My only, so called contribution to this marvelous thread is, that
I want to ask people in the know, if according with their information, this place I mention is safe, could it be considered a radiant zone, or not?

Also, there are ardent philosophical question raised on the thread. Look, life taught me that I have to be more feet-on-the-ground and sensibility and high and elevated feelings are good but not put food on the table. This is the reality of our miserable existence, we cannot separate our conscience of material, of earthly. At least I do not know a viable method, proven for my individuality, to work.

I'm telling myself I'm not tough enough for this world, (because I've surprised myself crying!!!!!!!!! listen to that song? I do not understand the words, etc.
YouTube - Shima Uta, the boom
I said, what the hack is happening to me?

So, really I need to go feet down to earth and I think, many of us, we need more feet-on-the-earth thinking.

Now, about the issue of helping/non letting others when the SHTF. If I wouldn't tell to that guy, near my house, SEVERAL TIMES, take care, look what is coming, prepare yourself. Don't go now in that fancy greek island ON CREDIT, better think maybe tomorrow they will throw you out of work, or maybe something's happening and use more wisely the money. You know what that guy is doing? Is laughing his ass at me, really and starting mock me. Than when the SHTF, the same guy approaching me and asking for help? Would be OK and considering him helping, because, we are humans, prone to error. But what are you doing if this dummy head came to you and ASK, look I have this little baby, he/she is hungry we need this or that and I know you have it. I DEMAND you give it to me? How do you will approach then this person? What are you doing if like this person are 5 neighbors, that all of them laugh at you, but now are coming to your door bearing arms, DEMANDING that you share with them whatever you stored (by not going in holidays in fancy Greek Islands on credit).

I like the approach for this problem of giving and helping others, highlighted in Triple Ought by James Wesley Rawles:
http://survivalbible2001.com/SB-2001/GRAY-90.DON/001gray.htm

Here the guys, having themselves a retreat said:

Give till it hurts!

So, they were prepared and open to give and help their fellow human, but in their conditions and on their will, not to be brought on them with the force of weapon.

So, here we are, weapons vs. non weapons. We should always respect the NATURE. The immutable laws of nature. And this leads to instinct... survival instinct. That's mean a healthy survival instinct that has been encoded genetically in every being on this planet, to take care for itself, FIRSTLY.

Following this natural law, we should obey this instinct and protect ourselves. How? Can we protect by hoards of looters and crazed people because of SHTF and they never think about preparation, survival, etc and will find more easily to prey on you? Would they follow their instincts, because they and their babies are hungry, you have food and resources or they will think highly spiritually and ethically as DO NOT TAKE WHAT IS NOT YOURS? What do you people know, those of you with earned life experience? The outcome is easily to be anticipated...:sad:

So, I think that is in our best interest NOT TO BECOME JUST A RESOURCE FOR THESE PEOPLE! Therefore, as Jack very nicely said, we need to gather those with similar ideas and mind set. Why? Because we need to protect ourselves in order to survive and after that we may evolve spiritually, etc. If we are dying because a group of happy greek-island-holidays-makers coming to your house/retreat and killing you, or at least taking off you al the provisions, would you be able to evolve to develop yourself further? No!

So, we are arriving back to our question. We gather in preparedness people with same mindset, we are improve our skills together, but we still need of defending. In US that is an easy task. There people have the right of bear firearms. We in Europe, after several hundredth years of dictatorial regimes, etc, we have been stripped away for this inalienable right, to be able to protect yourself, not leaning towards be protected by an external force (which usually is not there when you need it most, but trying to make life miserable otherwise) Of course, even us as Europeans, we need means to fight and defend ourselves and/or means to scarry and discourage potential predators (with two or many legs :winksmiley02:)

I'm relly in, to hear your suggestions and ideas.:welcomeani:

Anchor

07-20-2009, 09:30 AM

Where I live in New Zealand, a farming community, friends and neighbours, plus the wider community, have always pulled together to help each other in times of crisis. I don't see that it will be any different if the situation deteriotes in the future. What I see happening here ....

I'm praying that the world will focus on Peace for all humanity. And then it will come to pass. For if it does not..then as I stated before..I am eternal, and I don't choose to focus on what I don't want.
....

You are of course both right :)

There are many perspectives to this.

I am/have prepared in my own way, both in how I choose to organize my worldly affairs which includes "zany" preparations, living an increasingly off grid lifestyle etc and also I try also to play my part in not dwelling on the events to come - but one has to give various possibilities consideration (especially when you base your actions on what you think you "know" what is going to happen!) so that you can plan appropriately. The community part will happen in its own good time (by manifestation!)

As for community, I am sure that the majority of readers here are radiant zones all by themselves. When many of us meet one day, it will be a glorious day! It has already happened many times and will again.

Radiant Zones and community building will ALWAYS and inevitably require discussion about what is or is not going to happen. The trick is to do it rationally and with detachment.

From me to you/us/me - love!

A..

PS: If you disregard the Camalot and the "news" with the doom/gloom, conspiracy, UFO's/Aliens - then AVALON is a significant radiant zone - I suppose you all get that don't you?

WiNaDeYo

07-20-2009, 10:17 AM

Since it is imposssible at this time for me to leave my present location, I have been preparing to weather it out here. I don't have a local groundcrew except for my small family, but I am in contact with a small group in the UK that is planning to move off the island to the greater continent.

I am located in the central north of Italy in the Alps near the Swiss border well above 300 meters above sea level. To the NE of me there are mountain passess...very tall mountains and desolate areas, low population. This is an extremely rugged wilderness area not exploited for tourism like other areas. An abundance of wildlife, pure springs and streams teaming with trout, medicinal herbs, and abandoned agricultural areas with buildings that could be bought quite cheaply now. This particular area, and SW of here are considered the safest areas in Italy as far as earthquakes are concerned.

To the SW are lower mountian ranges that level off to join the Como Lake area towards Milan.

Although I realize the vicinity of the greater metropolis envirnment could become a problem when people there "run for the hills", I do know that fleeing the main valley, further up into these majestic mountains, could offer protection from panicked and angry crowds.

I am here. My home is open to you as a refuge, be it just for a pause or what need be.

Peace and Good Will!

mudra

07-20-2009, 11:31 AM

Brook and Winterwolf

My vision holds no catastastrophies in the future friends .
I believe that life lived from the heart is taking care of itself.
My vision sees humanity uniting in shared values , learning to
live with one another in respect for all of creation and of mother
earth.
This has to start with some gathering with the same purpose
of laying down the step stones of a new world.
This process has already taken place testimony to this are the numerous
eco villages that already exists.These are already showing the way.
There should be inter connectdedness between all the communities
be it those that you'll build or the ones that already exists
so that each one can travel to the other and exchange freely.
When this is done on a large scale in the end every single individual
on this earth with be part of ONE loving community of beings.
We are all powerfull and radiant individuals and everyone of us allready
does his best to shine his light and wisdom around him .
Radiant people when they gather can radiate even more.
Built and gather with and from your heart and know there is nothing to fear.
We are all ONE. ONE family .All we have to do is re-member.

YouTube - We are all one - www.weareallone-support.org

Loving kindness
mudra

rhythm

07-20-2009, 11:40 AM

My reason for wanting to live and work in

a community has nothing to do with

weather there will be disasters in the world

or not ... its simply a personal choice

i have no intentions of isolating my self

i feel this need to do this . i feel its

not just for me.. but to say hey you know what

you can get out of the rat race ... this is a way

you can do this ,,, then all the communities

can come together and share ..build the new

world from the ground up .... what an opportunity.....(for my grandson )

a community is not just about personal survival

someone is assumming a lot ...

this is great ...let get it all aired .. find the

community that suits you ....they wont all be the same ....

have your say here is your chance ,

right here and now .....in service of the one

rhythmmm ...(lets work together on this
not be devided ...)

mudra

07-20-2009, 11:42 AM

Thank you to everyone that is coming on this thread.
Your individual viewpoints are important .
Let's keep the discussion going and the focus on the creation of a unified field.

Loving kindness
mudra

NorthernSanctuary

07-20-2009, 11:42 AM

mudra

07-20-2009, 12:03 PM

YouTube - à¥ The Hundredth Monkey à¥

;)

loving kindness
mudra

giovonni

07-20-2009, 12:22 PM

rhythm

07-20-2009, 04:27 PM

I know that there are people

here on this forum

who actualy need a home ....

and are not in a situation that they

can do enything to change that

and so would be ready willing and able

to join a radient zone ....

i feel that this is a time to keep an open mind

and respect all opinions ...

and to be willing to at least see there point of view

we dont allways have to agree ...

there will be those who are willing to walk away

from there weath , evan there familys ...

some who will bring there weath for the good of the all

and share it among the community

there will be some who have nothing

to leave and nothing to give (monetary )

realy where are your values

what does your heart say to you if it says stay put

then this for you is your choice and ... be guided

by your own intuit ...

no one is saying community living is a must and or for all

so let us not make right n wrong of this

only choices .....and let ue be willing to listen to all the point of view

then we are open minded and can learn and grow

in service to the one rhythmmm ....
at least we have learnt to share here havent we ?

mudra

07-20-2009, 05:05 PM

I am here. My home is open to you as a refuge, be it just for a pause or what need be.

Peace and Good Will!

Thank you WiNaDeYo for the warm love that emanates from your offer.

Peace and Good Will.. Yes these are key words I believe that we should keep in focus :)

Loving kindness to you
mudra

burgundia

07-20-2009, 05:20 PM

The idea of living in a community of like-minded people is very appealing to me. I am sure that up till now not many of us could choose their neighbours and neighbourhood. Quite often we do not like the places where we live...It would be nice to live in the vicinity of people you could call friends instead of neighbours only. I'd gladly give up my 2-bedroom apartment for a room in a house with a garden to share with friends. Some people in Poland did that. They are mainly retired people. a group of close friends bought a house in the country, they live there, share the chores and from what I know are quite happy.( I read their story in a magazine).

mudra

07-20-2009, 05:55 PM

NorthernSanctuary & Mudra: I think the open chat would be a good idea.

Happy to meet you TtC.
Indeed the place is open for those who wish to share a discussion there.
We only need to fix a common time amongst us.
For me it's fine at 23:30 or 24 european time which makes it 5:30 or 6 for the US guys.
Those of you here who are wishing for such a chat to take place let us know if this time would suit you .

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-20-2009, 05:59 PM

Thank you Rhythm,

Your wisdom is a legend in Avalon :)

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-20-2009, 06:03 PM

I agree with you Burgundia we are entitled to choose our friends and if we can live with them at the same time and construct something in the direction of self sustainance , harmony with the environment and our fellow beings it should be done and supported as this can only benefit the entire planet as a whole.

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-20-2009, 06:08 PM

The world itself has changed.
There was a time when a traveller, if he had
the will and knew only a few of the secrets,
could send his barge out into the Summer sea
and arrive not at Glastonbury of the monks , but
at the Holy isle of Avalon; for at that time the
gates between the worlds drifted within the mists,
and were open, one to another, as the traveller
thought and willed . For this is the great secret,
which was known to all educated men in our day:
That by what men think ,we create the world
around us, daily new.

Marion Zimmer Bradley .. the mists of Avalon

loving kindness
mudra

Wormhole

07-21-2009, 06:14 AM

Hello fellow Radiant Zoners!

Well, what can I say. The sight in Washington State has been working hard. The fruit trees are in, the teepees are up, and the permanent residents have moved into the big long house, finally.

It's a great place to meet people who are full of good values and into sharing their lives with others of like mind.

Rules: NO GUNS, NONVIOLENT COMMUNICATION, and GIVE as well as RECEIVE!

If your a hard worker, enjoy community, and want to lead a beautiful life you could make this place your home.

Contact me at worm.hole7@gmail.com for community details.

Live in light, and learn in peace.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole:thumb_yello:

artvision

07-21-2009, 07:39 AM

Hi Artvision,

You have good elevation and the area sounds really nice. The only information that I've seen, talks about the issue of the problem of ash from mount Vesuvius.

You will have to go with your own intuition. While there is talk of the earth changes for the 2012 transition, there is also talk of ascension; it really seems like there is the possibility of alternate timelines, different realities for different individuals. See link:
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15510

(part 13-25)

I don't doubt that mudra's vision will hold true for her. The most important preparation is a spiritual development one. Without it, one will not survive even in a survival group.

/NS

Hi NorthernSantuary,

Thank you for your comment :original:

Regarding more information for assessment, what you might recommend?

Presented up to now:

1. High Altitude
2. Distanced 90-100 km from larger city (300,000 inhabitants) and 30 Km from near town (85,000 inhabitants)
3. Low Seismic risk
4. Not on path of air currents
5. Far from any shores or seacoasts, 8 Km far from water dam, 45 m above water dam level (in case of excessive flooding , or reversal flow of water to their sources due to seismic, winds or other events)
6. Existence of local resources: water, wood, wild game
7. Small rural community at reasonable distance, for bartering, security alliances; people are OK
8. The mountains there are not of volcanic nature, so, the probability of local lava eruption is close to zero
9. Being mountain area, caves
10. Low cost of land for building
11. Area is well sun covered and windy (good for electric energy)

What might be desired to add for assessment?

Also would be very interesting to know, the organization of such retreats:

1. How decision are taken, voting
2. The chores distribution
3. Security organization, defense systems, sentries, watching posts
4. The policy with local surrounding people, near the retreat
5. What will be assessed the contribution of each member to the well being of retreat
6. How are the resources splitted between the members?
7. Are allowed the individual members have their own things, privacy, or is more something collective?

etc, etc

mudra

07-21-2009, 09:15 AM

NorthernSanctuary, Carmen and Gio, TtC, Artvision, WiNaDeYo , Wormhole you are a blessing on this thread.You all come with good news and your heart felt vision and deeds.
Still a lot to do but great hope for all.May your visions come through and communities flourish as lotus flowers on this earth .

Thank you
mudra

Oliver

07-21-2009, 10:35 AM

I closely resonate with what Rhythm (also Mudra and Burgundia) is saying about the values. Indeed, I can not imagine to live in the community were (again!!!) the shareholders, ownerships and other financial relations will became dominant segment of the “society”. I am imagining the new communities and radiant zones – as RADIATING! But surely not with financial primitivism as is now in 3D world.
Is it the main issue only to survive? For me – not! We should survive, of course, but it is expected from us to start to build The New World. We should be the new collective consciousness of the future, and we should think mainly of how to adopt and share all of the real universal knowledge and wisdom we can, together with unconditional love, for next generations also. That is radiating.
The new system is required, and I believe Avalon is capable for organizing a team who will found the basics of a new planetary system of values connected with the universality.
Money relations are destroying this planet, we are escaping from money relations, and we are accepting them only because we have no choice at this moment.
Giving is the greatest gift for those who gives.

Love for all

http://greennativecouncil.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Indian-Prophecy-Poster-C10001762.202164739_std.jpg

NorthernSanctuary

07-21-2009, 11:31 AM

Hi Artvision,

Considering the possible contamination of surface water, you should try to see if there are sources of spring water, or consider a common artesian well when you have a group formed. Also have the equipment to purify the water; include distillation as a last resort. In some scenarios the sun will not be around for a while, so make sure you focus on wind power, hydro if there are mountain streams; the solar you can use while you have it; otherwise store it until the sun comes out again.

Your description of the area sounds ideal. Your caves can be a natural shelter against extreme winds.

As far as the other organization issues, I'll write more later as we are going through that process now. Everyone should have their private things, and a common area for community. You can agree on contributing a certain amount (eg. food) to a common store (as a buffer for yourself or others). The principle is that you can only learn to give if it is voluntary and from the heart, not if it is a hard rule, but you can have basic rules required for the sustaining of the community, such as the expected amount of labor that each should contribute for the common good (no. of hours of work a day). My intention is that the quality of life should be measured by the amount of free time we have to pursue self development and this should improve over time.

/NS

artvision

07-21-2009, 03:18 PM

Hi NorthernSantuary,

You are right about the water. There are natural flows of some water threads (smaller springs) anyway there is a clear and very cold water seems to emerging out of the hill. I discussed with the landlord and said the extracting water is very easy there. And if needed much water, 200 m down away there is a huge lake with plenty of water.

For water, I have 2 manual pumping ceramic water filter this model:
http://www.campsaver.com/mmWINTERFIXCOM/Images/a/msr_miniworks_filter.jpg

each with a small plastic flash of chlorine concentrate, but this is for bush-crafting. For the retreat should be fixed filter, with gravitational flow, with higher capacity.

Yes, you are right, the water could be polluted, chemical, or nuclear, even from some meteorite showers of toxic component, has been written also in the Bible:

the third trumpet blast heralded “a great star from heaven, burning as if it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; and the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. — Book of Revelation 8:10-11

The difficult will be to filter out the chemical contamination, and this could be done just by distillation. The nuclear filtration :sad: maybe just by electrolyze and then burn again the H2 and O2, but this would be much over our technical possibilities.

Look NorthernSantuary, I'm not consider give Sitchin much trust. Instead I discovered with great joy, the work and information of Maxwell Igan, which are more alike with my perception of reality.

Another issue, really I'm not upset if I'm dying from a natural phenomenon coming from an act of God. Really, if a meteorite is falling in my head, I will die peacefully. Whatever I'm upset and determined to fight at most of my wits, are the things and situations created by HUMANS. Because those has been human created I have no justification to fight against, nor defeat, if I'm considering myself a rational and having some brains. Against such threats we do not have any excuse, do we? Those from God, are at divine will and I'm not upset to fight.

As Oliver very nice put, also me I'm tired about this primitivistic society based on money... money, money, money. We should broke this pattern once and for all, we must be responsible beings and no dedicated just for material gain, for it's own sake. If we are obtaining it just give us the material support for a bigger and more complete evolution, then be it.

We must learn to get rid about this hindrance of money concept from of our minds and spirits. But until then, we should be realistically and try to do our best to use the scarce money resources to create our retreat, at our best of our possibilities. Sometimes I become very tired, of this life, of this society, and then I better understand the God imperative mandate that we should go out of this wicked world, we should get out from our worldly Babylon (the current world and it's wicked system). But as we still learning from 20 years, the conscience enhancement and molding is the hardest, toughest and most moral and emotional energy consumer!

More easy to learn a new skill, became an ace in something, that to modify your way of thinking! This is the greatest challenge. For this we need people more advanced than us on that path, people which are far over the selfishness and these current worldly feelings. These people should be like teachers for us and show us what we can do to find our spiritual accomplishment. Even they cannot do much for us, as any being business is to evolve by itself, by joining people with close mindsets could create an emotional starter for many of us, like a spiritual evolutionism Big-Bang.

Until then, though, we should work with the existent tools, as they are primitive and already expired, such as money, things, etc.

Me, personally I do see money as tools and more a cumbersome, rather a blessing. From my experience is happening like this:

a) if I got much money (extremely rare) I need give much thought what to do with it not waste it, or at least to maintain their value - this usually finish with lot of discussions, in family and lot of energy spent; most of the times we regret the decision we took (if not us, our family members!) :sad:

b) if very few monies remain, than I'm stressed, because what I will do, etc I need to find urgently a solution to take me out of that state

c) if a moderate amount is coming, hopefully on a regular basis, then I can cover the family needs and give me kind of peace, to think about my important things in life, which are not money and their investment

So, most of the time, money are causing only worries and problems. They ask from us much attention and consideration just for their own sake, as some small devilish, selfish creatures.

After I read a lots of books, Robert Kiyoaski, Wallace D. Wattles, Napoleon Hill, D. Trump, etc, etc, I get more insights of what monies are and how the world is running. Therefore I decided NOT apply the Kiyosaki and Donald Trump system, of living large, consuming much, just this to be the engine for a future expansion, NO.... I apply the teachings of our God to live modest and beyond my means. This will lead us to humbleness, which think is the key to not let your mind get crazy in this world. This is keeping us sane!

We are nothing, really now you are here alive and full of yourself; in 1 second you could be gone, so is not worth nor justified to make big fuss about you are something.

A very big lesson I learned, when I have been worked in Maldives. I stayed in Male, and this is an extremely small island, you could be walking it in 15 minutes from one side to another. So, there, you see rarely cars, mostly taxies. One day started to discuss with a person, he was running a motor bicycle, has been dressed very modestly and his attitude has been very humble.

This person was very pleasant and very knowledgeable and last me a good impression. When I went in the office I told this to a good friend of mine Italian and others from the office (locals) about the encounter. The locals asked me more details and then laughing said: Do you know with who you have been spoken with ? No, I said. This guy is the landlord of many islands here, and having many fish canning factories all around, is very rich and maybe weekly is going London for his business, etc. Me, I was shocked also intrigued of how come he hadn't have a shiny car to show his wealth status! And joking about this, with my italian friend, that in my country, if somebody has 10,000 $ he thinks is the king of world and even not answering back to your hello, next day. We were giggling about, but I learned a tough lesson how to behave and started to see the world with different eyes.

Starting from that, I do not appreciate people, that because they made money, by a conjecture or something, etc, this would qualified automatically them think about themselves they are smart, gifted and so on, just because of this. I met in my life, people extremely rich and wealthy, for example in Saudi Arabia and they didn't try to impress or make a point from how wealthy or how much money they have. It is a matter of education, of conscience, religion, etc. Money are just a tool, that are bringing you where you want to go and that's it. You should take care about them, as a carpenter is taking care of his chisels, or a blacksmith that take care of his forge, but nothing more. Not for the money sake! We should be their masters not the reverse.

But through a wicked a devilish propaganda, the elites tampered the minds of people and made them live in debt, while the elites live of people's debt! It is a parasitic symbioses, but I think with this crisis they passed the limit. Really I think they passed the limit, the POINT OF NO RETURN with that. I think also part of them, woke up to reality and starting to realize what they've done and how massive will affect them. But I'm afraid they de-clicked the pin of the grenade.

So, because of that, I'm not positive in an economic recovery, not in a close future and I'm stressing myself to manage somehow to start doing that retreat. I'm not afraid of God calamities, let his judgement come, as we are deserving what we get from Him, but I do not want let the TPTB show me, that their intelligence will prevail mine:naughty:. I wouldn't never accept that. What is done by man, shoul be un-done by man and I must be able to do it.

Of course, there is a huge disbalance of resources in this equation, between things that they are pushing on us and things we can do ourselves to protect ourselves and oust them, but with the help of God, I hope we can overpass these human treacheries. Really I'm positive that there is a profound meaning into resist! By all means: Resistance Is NOT Futile! This is my credo, up to this point in my petty existence. What do you think?:winksmiley02:

WiNaDeYo

07-21-2009, 04:19 PM

:groupwave::groupwave:
Standing ovation!
Thanks for the captivating and heartful post!

My thoughts exactly, Artvision!

Keep up the good work! Sounds like you have found your radiant place!

Peace and Good Will!

Oliver

07-21-2009, 04:31 PM

mudra

07-21-2009, 05:39 PM

I know I may have thrown some of you off with the original proposition, but my offer still stands.

TtC I believe it would be wise to reiterate your original proposition here as I believe many here have'nt read it before.
Would you do this for us?
Thank you .

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-21-2009, 05:59 PM

More easy to learn a new skill, became an ace in something, that to modify your way of thinking! This is the greatest challenge. For this we need people more advanced than us on that path, people which are far over the selfishness and these current worldly feelings. These people should be like teachers for us and show us what we can do to find our spiritual accomplishment. Even they cannot do much for us, as any being business is to evolve by itself, by joining people with close mindsets could create an emotional starter for many of us, like a spiritual evolutionism Big-Bang.

I agree with you Artvision.
I believe that to modify our way of thinking we need to step into our hearts and start to look at things and feel through our real eyes, the soul's eyes.
The mind allows for dichotomies that the heart only can unify.

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-21-2009, 06:12 PM

The technical issues of surviving are similar everywhere, so they can be resolved in this or that way, but since we are spiritual beings first, it is crucial to have an unbreakable system of values that will brings enlightement and positive evolution.
I am ready to work on this...I strongly believe that all of the communities should have compatibility in order to build The New World.

Love and Respect to all.

This is an interesting point Oliver.
I personnally find a lot of inspiration in " The art of peace " laid out by Morihei Ueshiba.
The Art of peace contains 114 quotations .
This is the first one :

The Art of Peace begins with you. Work on yourself and your appointed task in the Art of Peace. Everyone has a spirit that can be refined, a body that can be trained in some manner, a suitable path to follow. You are here for no other purpose than to realize your inner divinity and manifest your innate enlightenment. Foster peace in your own life and then apply the Art to all that you encounter.
http://omlc.ogi.edu/aikido/talk/osensei/artofpeace/

Please go ahead and present us something that we can then discuss.
Follow your heart.

Loving kindness
mudra

artvision

07-21-2009, 06:15 PM

Good thinking, Artvision. I am thankful to you for you dedication.

I would like to repeat my proposal: Avalon should organize a team who will work on profilation of the community’s society in every level. This doesn’t mean uniforming of all of the communities, but a kind of universal recommendations to be followed with free will.
Love and Respect to all.

YES OLIVER! YOU HAVE RIGHT!

We need something like a guiding set! Some guideline as:

1. Against what we prepare and why we consider that a threat?
2. Survival Checklist - What we need to take in consideration and why!
3. Bug-out or fleeing. To flee to retreat or living in it.
4. Retreating - How we construct/features
5. Water providing, producing, storage - Technologies, techniques
6. Food Storage - What food we store/ Short term, medium and long term solutions
7. Security / Defending / Weapons/Military training/battle training
8. Communication means: between us, with other communities, with world
9. Organizing with community organizing as a micro society - we can create one of ours, after our will, not others :wink2:
10. Survival Library - Books, magazines, computers CD, disks, ebooks, etc
11. Medical Issues and Health. Plants and herbs. Minerals. Exercises
12. Energy - Solar - Wind - Etheric or RADIANT energy (why not?)
13. Spirituality and enlightenment of the being
14. Agriculture, Aquaculture, animal raising
15. Canning and food preserving
16. Producing, reparing and maintaining things. Learning crafts, etc
17. Learning and teaching

etc,etc
Please feel free about to add.

We can make a general discussion with what is good and what is bad and why, according with other member vast experience. We can then gather some guiding lines, where people can easily start with a retreat or at list have some tclear line of thought in their hands. If the situation would rapidly degrade, at list to know what to do ASAP, without loosing prcious time, then when SHTF.
Why I'm saying that? Because most of the people never put such questions in their life:

1. What you will do if electric power is off?
2. What you will do if there is no police and security maintaining forces?
3. What will do if all supermarkets and shops will suddenly close?
4. What will do if the city service will not pick-up the garbage from tomorrow?
5. What will do if phones, internet will cease suddenly to function?
6. What will do if when trying get money from ATM they will not work and leave you without cash?
7. What will do if most of the banks will close their doors and will be cordoned by security forces armed to their teeth?
8. How I will go in contact with my family now?
etc, etc.

Some people face that challenging, some a few of them, some many of them. But most of people and maybe younger they NEVER FACED SUCH things.

I think that collective knowledge would be an invaluable resource.
Therefore I found some:

Argentina Collapse: http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshtf1.html

Albania Collapse:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151761

Fleeing of population when Hitler Invading France:
http://www.ebookee.com/Fleeing-Hitler-France-1940_214981.html

What really happened with Katrina and workarounds:
http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/p/0007.html

What is happening when disasters hit. Especially with EMP, but not only:
Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack:
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

etc, etc

Please feel free to add from other places or better, from personal experience. Such what happened in Serbia on war, or in Rwanda, or when tsunami stroke in Thailand, when drought in Australia, or problems from other places, where you people may have been or heard stories.

As the things will unfolding with such a rapid pace, we need to have procedure in places. Then we do not have time to think, we just need to act. As fast and as efficient will be life saving! I had a home almost exploding near my hous in an compound. My wife left immediately the house as the neighborhood fire was extending faster and dangerous to us. SHE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. If the fire wouldn't be quickly extinguished by the firefighters, we wouldn't have then, ANY PASSPORTS, CREDIT CARDS, NOR MONEY, just a few banknotes that I would have with me in my wallet. From then on, (this was a trigger for us) we started to consider procedures and what-if scenarios and prepare for them. What I will do in this case, or that case? etc Running scenarios. Army does that. Big corporation do that, also people may benefit from such scenario preparation.

A foundation stone for our trial of establishing some retreat best practices code, I consider to be this novel:

Triple Ought, written by James Wesley Rawles;
http://survivalbible2001.com/SB-2001/GRAY-90.DON/001gray.htm

Rawles which is the founder of the SurvivalBlog.com (which I follow regularily by RSS and find very usefull) and which is a follower of Mel Tappan which started the trend of survivalist in early 70's (if I'm not wrong)

Please make yourself time and read the novel, Triple Ought, as it is full of insights and ideas how a retreat/organisation should function!
I mean I find a lot of things of high value there, things as one may never thought about, in the first places. Really is so important that I already start to draw MindMaps :thumb_yello:

Really is very eye opening for our subject!

Northern Boy

07-21-2009, 06:31 PM

I might add something here . We were never given the authority to own the earth you can not own that which is a living thing you are merely a steward of the land . That being said in the future what ever comes to be, we will be citizens of earth.
There are going to be no borders or countries. Laws of commerce will become a thing of the past they are no longer required true individual freedom will be ours to behold.
So any one openly throwing out the promise of come and live on my land is out there as far as I can see. It was never his to begin with you are merely adding value to something the current government in America plans to take from its citizens regardless of how much money they own

We are trying to end the current system of taxing slave labour for existence not perpetuate it

artvision

07-21-2009, 06:31 PM

artvision

07-21-2009, 06:39 PM

Triple Ought, written by James Wesley Rawles;
http://survivalbible2001.com/SB-2001/GRAY-90.DON/001gray.htm

Rawles which is the founder of the SurvivalBlog.com (which I follow regularily by RSS and find very usefull) and which is a follower of Mel Tappan which started the trend of survivalist in early 70's (if I'm not wrong)

Please make yourself time and read the novel, Triple Ought, as it is full of insights and ideas how a retreat/organisation should function!
I mean I find a lot of things of high value there, things as one may never thought about, in the first places. Really is so important that I already start to draw MindMaps :thumb_yello:

Really is very eye opening for our subject!

Regarding this novel and the things very well highlighted by Northern Boy, related with the issue of owning/no owning the land and of that of TAXES raising are right or wrong, you will se that the people even after passing thru devastating experiences, death, starvation, arson, rapings and beatings, they STILL DON'T GET IT! ONCE AGAIN THEY STARTED TO REINSTATE THE TAXATION AND THE LAND OWNING RIGHTS & STUFF, forgetting that everything they passed thru few years ago, IT WAS JUST BECAUSE OF THAT! Because of greed of some individuals/governments and which do not care only for themselves, thus put billions to great sufferance. Just an example of what short is the memory of people and how difficult is to make peolpe changing their attitude, mentality.

Related with land owning, we are just users, a temporary tenants and it is a very high infatuation to think we own the land. We own nothing; we own to the nature, to the planet. If Terra wants, gets rid immediately of us, as you say 1, 2 ,3 ! No need to make us a proof, a small earthquake is just enough reminder.:lmao:

Oliver

07-21-2009, 08:14 PM

artvision

07-21-2009, 09:44 PM

Thank you, Mudra. I bookmarked The Art of Peace, and from short preview I did, it seems to me that this teaching has some touching points with Taoism, which is very close to my heart.

Artvison, thank you also. There are so many questions to be answered, as you properly posted them. I think it is wise for the technical issues to be resolved by the specialists, using their books, manuals etc.

As for my biggest interest, I started to work on “ideology” and “political system” stuff for the communities. When I have some draft, you will know it.

Respect

Dears,

Thank you for the interest and will of contribution to this life & death thread. This shows a deep desire in our souls for something better for people, for us in tha last instance.

This work is immense judging by the importance and by the knowledge must be shared and disseminated between us.

I have a practical experience of disseminating data and information between people, which NOT NECESSARY are of technical background, or not expressly technical.

Any person with reason and some life experience, can understand, handle and can bring their contribution to the common welfare, so here I more towards to work all to all the problems, at least be familiarized, while the trained experts will work more towards details and internal wheelings and dealings of systems, but overall all the people should have a global vision about everything... and who knows, maybe someone "non-expert" will come with a great idea which save trouble and time.

So, the idea is about having between us a common creative platform, which is not technical or technology dependent, we can make it also no be language dependent we can exchange within our group the creative ideas, suggestions, solution, being a fun in the same time; this idea of collaboration is based on two things:

1. The way our brain rteally works, it can gather information, store and process
2. How the computer is not helping the creativity process, but is an assumed bad, because of easiness of transfer and storage of data and ideas in digital format

So, for start, there was one smart person that observed that the humans are very bored when they have to learn and process lists and outlining; he deeply studied the problem and discovered that the brain function different as that was assumed it function. So, our brain functioning is based on images (remember that saying that 1 picture value more than 1000 words?); the central places in those images are the most important thing we are thinking at and from it radiate (RADIANT) subsections, like rays coming from the sun.
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_237/12030885110J8Keb.jpg

Each these rays then are divided in sub-subsection. You can visualize something like a central processor where are gathering many independent trunks of wires, each trunk is constituted by independent cables, each cable is made of wires and so on.

By analizyng this specific picture we can see the Big Picture, as well the details, in same shot, we do not need to turn page, to scroll and always we have all the information in front of our eyes. By further researches it has been observed that everything in nature is based on this make-up. From sun there getting out the rays, each rays is made from fascicles, each fascicle is composed from photons, etc.

The same is God, from which is radiate the wellness, the goodness, the life. You can observe in a leaf, if you look into the light, that are lots of nervure that emanate from the stalk.

http://ntsavanna.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/stachytarpheta-serrate-1.jpg

These way of thinking and representing information, in a easy to grasp form for our brain, has been called MindMapping and has been developed by Tony Buzan.

I will not go in depth in this methods, suffice to say that will be very easy to visualize, understand and looks similar with scribbles and drawing of young children (which proves that what people learn in school is not necessarily good, but sometime could be bad! :eek:)

Here is an example of mind map:

http://techknowtools.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/mindmap_2.jpg

In center is the main subject. Each line is a sub-domain (we prefer to put only suggestive words - not propositions), as we get deeper and deeper level we detail more and more. The advantage is that is easy to keep an eye over all the information, is easy grasping, and with help of colors, forms and scribbles will remain more time vivid in our memory. Not only that, but if you want add something, you just draw another branch in the correct place. When you make list you should re-do it from beginning, right?

They use this method for advanced projects at NASA, Boeing, etc for Project Management, brainstorming and analyzing of extremely advanced systems. This is a method they said they used to coordinate the immense effort or re-satrting all the municipal services and systems in New York after 911.

So, along with that method, we need a software platform (but the best creative results are with a piece of paper, sharp colored pencils, rubber and a cup of coffee!). We need though the software to be able collaborate between different computers. Some use Windows, other Linux and others use Mac OS. So the file we are posting on internet, we can post as PDF or imagine, but someone interested cannot add, or modify easily. Here come into picture, the software I talk about.

It is FREE and is a collaborative software developed to collaborate between academic media, students, professors, engineers etc. Is easy to learn and intuitive and have so many feature that is unbelievable.

If enough people are here are interested by this method, I can indicate the links of this software and can create and post the initial structure, as a start poin which we can, flesh it out, every member, according with his ideas, experience, knowledge, not necessarily should be an expert in that domain. Really I do not want to intrude or monopolize the discussion, but we need a kick start and quickly because we are in the 11 hours. Please excuse me, I'm not that handy with all the tricks and features it may offer this forum platform because this is my first and only forum I post and participate in my life. And not because I'm someone coming from a cave or never saw a computer in his life, nor I'm so young (ouch!!! :nono:) but because I never have an such vital interest as from this outstanding gathering of exceptional, smart and sensible people present on this forum, debating such extraordinary ideas and concept :cheerful_h4h:

So if you are interested I can post the links and afterwards I can put the draft of the Retreat Organization in that specific form and everybody can flesh it, can add or modify according with his wish.

Awaiting your opinion!
The software is easy handling, I know, also me, I'm not quite willing learn much new stuff! :thumb_yello:

mudra

07-22-2009, 11:05 AM

Artvision .. Outstanding !
Looks really good. Please go ahead and make it happen :)
Constructive ideas can only lead to constructive outcome.

Loving kindness
mudra

artvision

07-22-2009, 11:28 AM

.....
Awaiting your opinion!
The software is easy handling, I know, also me, I'm not quite willing learn much new stuff! :thumb_yello:

I see nobody is answering, maybe I was not very clear. I feel obliged to answer a few pertinent possible questions!

Q: Why we use new softwares? Couldn't we use the old plain text, with adding graphics, schematics, etc?[/COLOR]

A: Yes, we could, but it we very awkward to followup such amount of information as request by this subject. If we want that amount of info, into a normal list form, maybe will fill a booklet. Is everybody happy to read a booklet about something he/she do not understand yet what will be benefits from it? probably NO. Do we have much gain, by posting immense list, just scrolling them from one side to another, in between we forget about we were reading? probably not.

Q: Why are you proposing this software, in the first place? Are you some affiliations or some gains from leading us to use this software?

A: First of all, this is a FREE software, no strings attached. I have no affiliations or relations with these guys, I just tried to use a common multi-OS platform for sharing visual information with you. Will be able to share and use same information but handled on Windows, Linux and Mac's. Also seems a well featured software and I'm new to it as some of you, because I used before commercial software which will create a barrier between us.

Q: Second, why we need this new software, why should we bother install in our systems, no to mention the hassle that we have to learn new things?

A: Already described the concept "1 picture equal 1000 words" and you can use this software for myriads of purposes:

1. Put most valuable information in a brain visual attractive form (MindMaps)
2. You can see very easily what's missing, you can add easily what need more
3. You can use for brainstorming, just pot in the middle the main ideea and began to draw rays, naming it accordingly. Then go deeper, further and further.
4. Easy to present to others, no need big preparation or advanced knowledge; very fit for our purpose: a gathering of people from all backgrounds with different knowledge and skills, without being tied in a similar culture, language nor continent
5. You can make your check list for shopping, for scheduling events,
6. Could be use to Project management (I use mostly for that)
7. Could be used to analyze and solving a problem
8. You can use, for example when traveling make you a checklist, with all the things necessary, etc
9. We can do nice presentations, not only in a linear form as PowerPoint, meaning I 'm not forced go page 1, then 2, and so on, but can choos a path we want to discuss, etc. It is very advanced and very useful

Q: Ok I downloaded the software, installed but seemed pretty complicated, right?

A: I will answer you, maybe same seemed Microsoft Office at first encounter, but we were bypassing that problem, right? Because we human, are intended to solve problems, so this should not be a show stopper for us. If we are not able to use a software which is in the last instance, a mere TOOL, how we will be able solve such complex problems in front of us? I'm also much novice in this software, but before used similar software, but for our initial use, we need just be able to browsing, zoom in/out, and add/delete a branch, or write a text or something. THE MAIN IMPORTANT THING, is not the software, BUT WHAT WE PUT IN (you know that saying for computer systems: garbage in, garbage out)
etc.

Hope that I answered some worries and question.

So, here it is the Tufts University (Medford, Massachusetts, US) developed software, called:
VUE - Visual Understanding Environment

The Visual Understanding Environment (VUE) is an Open Source project based at Tufts University. The VUE project is focused on creating flexible tools for managing and integrating digital resources in support of teaching, learning and research. VUE provides a flexible visual environment for structuring, presenting, and sharing digital information.

http://vue.tufts.edu/index.cfm

To download software:
http://vue.tufts.edu/download/index.cfm?fromvue=1

Examples:
http://vueproject.blogspot.com/

Presentation Video:
http://vue.tufts.edu/screencast/QT_hiRes.cfm

SO, if you are interested, you have installed the software, I'm quite ready to delivery a frame (quite complex if I put it in a linear, list form). On this form, everybody could manipulate, modify, add, delete whatever thinks is necessary and he can post his idea on forum.

We then indeed exchange our ideas and we will talk right to the point, not just babbling around and never remains a thing, nor getting something to materialize. Awaiting your suggestion, opinions and questions.

artvision

07-22-2009, 11:31 AM

Artvision .. Outstanding !
Looks really good. Please go ahead and make it happen :)
Constructive ideas can only lead to constructive outcome.

Loving kindness
mudra

Sorry Mudra, I was in the editing window, so I didn't see your post.
I have some questions, maybe someone will enlighten me:

1. Where and how to add a larger file than the forum admitted rule?
2. How can I add files that are not of a standard type?

Should I use the Megauploads and then point a link?

artvision

07-22-2009, 11:39 AM

ISSUE: I cannot post larger file than 65KB and of non regular type file_name.vue, with "VUE"extension

I managed to create an file share site on internet:

http://artvision.9f.com/

There is just an EXAMPLE FILE on PDF form (Adobe Acrobat or Acrobat Reader) and VUE form, for VUE software I'm recommending!

I need to have your feedback! In the meantime I'm working to the RadiantZone backbone.

Waiting you guys!

mudra

07-22-2009, 11:48 AM

Northern Boy I do agree with you we do not own Gaia and are basically citizens of the world.
Thank you for reminding us.
Working in the direction of regaining that universal citizenship needs transitory steps to be taken.
Communities emerging aiming at self sustainance , growing organic food in harmony and respect of the environment, and nurturing human rights and values is one of them.
One does 'nt need a crystal ball to extrapolate where our world is going if it goes on in the same direction as it is now heading.
So a change has to take place .
We can be the change we want to see .
Some have already dared to step outside the routine we all share and prooved that we can do better.
Until one day through the good will of all we will be One family again .

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-22-2009, 11:55 AM

Oliver

07-22-2009, 02:41 PM

Mudra, excellent, this is very welcomed! Acctualy, I am exactly researching, among all, the Amerikan Indians way of life in purpose to establish the basic elements of some kind of organization for the communities. There are so much authentic nobility and wisdom in their way. They are great teachers.

Love and Respect

artvision

07-22-2009, 03:28 PM

Native American Indian Traditional Code of Ethics

mudra

Very profound! Pure to the basics of the soul!
here is the Native Indians Ethics code under visual form:

http://www.artvision.9f.com/Native_Indian_Ethics/nativeIndiansEthic.html

(just close the annoying advertise windows opening in the right side of the screen; there is a small close button in the right upper corner)

mudra

07-22-2009, 03:42 PM

Both links did'nt work Artvision :(

Loving kindness
mudra

artvision

07-22-2009, 04:41 PM

Both links did'nt work Artvision :(

Loving kindness
mudra

Sorry Mudra, I'm not much in making sites & stuff. Try the link I corrected upstairs and try to close that annoying advertise window is popping up in the right side!

I would highly appreciate to confirm if you can open now!

http://www.artvision.9f.com/Native_Indian_Ethics/nativeIndiansEthic.html

artvision

07-22-2009, 06:55 PM

The draft is finished, is in visual form, OK, but the file is larger than 1 MB.
Here are attached some samples from it (samples limited to maximum admitted size, by the forum):

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3c0b717f3d0cccf7931c7453395df025e04e75f6 e8ebb871

Please confirm people, you were able to download.

So, the point is to, analyze each point and go with solutions. I would appreciate if people willing give contribution, to install VUE and we would exchanged source file, rather than PDF.

Please look over it and let's start discussions. If people interested I may produce them in an linear form (a list) easy to disseminate on forum, as being just text.

NorthernSanctuary

07-22-2009, 07:10 PM

Swanny

07-22-2009, 07:39 PM

The Native American Indian's were amazing people it's such a crime that our ancestors killed them :thumbdown:

Northern Boy

07-22-2009, 08:59 PM

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=246&pictureid=2275

Native American Indian Traditional Code of Ethics

1)Each morning upon rising, and each evening before sleeping, give thanks for the life within you and for all life, for the good things the Creator has given you and for the opportunity to grow a little more each day. Consider your thoughts and actions of the past day and seek for the courage and strengthto be a better person. Seek for the things that will benefit others (everyone).

2)Respect. Respect means "To feel or show honor or esteem for someone or something; to consider the well being of, or to treat someone or somethin with deference or courtesy". Showing respect is a basic law of life.

a. Treat every person from the tiniest child to the oldest elder with respect at all times.

b. Special respect should be given to Elders, Parents, Teachers, and Community Leaders.

c. No person should be made to feel "put down" by you; avoid hurting other hearts as you would avoid a deadly poison.

d. Touch nothing that belongs to someone else (especially Sacred Objects) without permission, or an understanding between you.

e. Respect the privacy of every person, never intrude on a person's quiet moment or personal space.

f. Never walk between people that are conversing.

g. Never interrupt people who are conversing.

h. Speak in a soft voice, especially when you are in the presence of Elders, strangers or others to whom special respect is due.

i. Do not speak unless invited to do so at gatherings where Elders are present (except to ask what is expected of you, should you be in doubt).

j. Never speak about others in a negative way, whether they are present or not.

k. Treat the earth and all of her aspects as your mother. Show deep respect for the mineral world, the plant world, and the animal world. Do nothing to pollute our Mother, rise up with wisdom to defend her.

l. Show deep respect for the beliefs and religion of others.

m. Listen with courtesy to what others say, even if you feel that what they are saying is worthless. Listen with your heart.

n. Respect the wisdom of the people in council. Once you give an idea to a council meeting it no longer belongs to you. It belongs to the people. Respect demands that you listen intently to the ideas of others in council and that you do not insist that your idea prevail. Indeed you should freely support the ideas of others if they are true and good, even if those ideas ideas are quite different from the ones you have contributed. The clash of ideas brings forth the Spark of Truth.

3)Once a council has decided something in unity, respect demands that no one speak secretly against what has been decided. If the council has made an error, that error will become apparent to everyone in its own time.

4)Be truthful at all times, and under all conditions.

5)Always treat your guests with honor and consideration. Give of your best food, your best blankets, the best part of your house, and your best service to your guests.

6)The hurt of one is the hurt of all, the honor of one is the honor of all.

7)Receive strangers and outsiders with a loving heart and as members of the human family.

8)All the races and tribes in the world are like the different colored flowers of one meadow. All are beautiful. As children of the Creator they must all be respected.

9)To serve others, to be of some use to family, community, nation, and the world is one of the main purposes for which human beings have been created. Do not fill yourself with your own affairs and forget your most important talks. True happiness comes only to those who dedicate their lives to the service of others.

10)Observe moderation and balance in all things.

11)Know those things that lead to your well-being, and those things that lead to your destruction.

12)Listen to and follow the guidance given to your heart. Expect guidance to come in many forms; in prayer, in dreams, in times of quiet solitude, and in the words and deeds of wise Elders and friends.

These people have lived together in communities for centuries.
There is a lot I found to learn from their wisdom.

Feel the love

Loving kindness
mudra
All this information and more can be found at this web page

http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/nacodeethics.htm

artvision

07-22-2009, 09:15 PM

http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3...4e75f6e8ebb871

Please confirm people, you were able to download.

I took a quick look at it (I'm at work), and the code of ethics looks very good, well thought out. Is this based on your thoughts or actual native code of ethics, Artvision?

Hi NorthernSantuary,

No is not mine, the Native Indians Ethic Codes were bring by Mudra, in a previous post (few posts upper than mine).
It is a very pure and untainted Ethics code, that would be a good guidance in behaving in an Radiant Zone, I mean I would be very pleased if people would treat me in that mode.

My only contribution was taking the information from linear, listing form and making as a MindMap, more easy for human brain to grasp it, make connections between words, join ideas in a more organic and fluid flow; easy for memorising, easy for brainstorming. There is the advantage of having the Big Picture and the smalles detail, in one shot, in front of you, no need scrolling.

I was just to make a point for the tool we may work together, if you guys agree.

So, work from yesterday and today I finalized that draft, called
RadiantZoneStructure.pdf, which is the backbone of the organisation of the Radiant Zone, in my opinion.

So, I a draft is just done, but I urge people install free software called VUE (for Win, Linux and Mac), as we can exchange ideas, we can add, delete and bring our directly contribution to this Radiant Zone Guidance. Could be used for lots of other data representing purposes, such Project Management, Brain Storming, Problem Solving, etc

We can play with it in a graphical format and when we consider is finished and is OK, we can then transform in linear form, such an outline or a list.
Seems that besides Mudra and you, nobody gave any feedback.

mudra

07-22-2009, 09:34 PM

All this information and more can be found at this web page

http://www.sapphyr.net/natam/nacodeethics.htm

Northern Boy this is the site I found it myself.
I omitted to give the link.
Thank you:thumb_yello:

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-22-2009, 09:36 PM

I would highly appreciate to confirm if you can open now!

http://www.artvision.9f.com/Native_Indian_Ethics/nativeIndiansEthic.html

All fine now Artvision.
This gives a good overview indeed !
Thank you :)

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-23-2009, 12:22 AM

So any one openly throwing out the promise of come and live on my land is out there as far as I can see. It was never his to begin with you are merely adding value to something the current government in America plans to take from its citizens regardless of how much money they own

We are trying to end the current system of taxing slave labour for existence not perpetuate it

As an additionnal thought thinking that one owns a land is an illusion. Governments are just letting you borrow a land they consider their own property and tax you for it .
This being what it is for the time being it's not so much the fact that one " owns " a land that is important but rather what one does with this piece of land and how one lives on it. .Are we preserving the land and it's sacredness or are we merely utilizing it without soul and thought. Are we caring for our fellow beings and all life and living towards unity or are we just caring for ourselves in separateness.

Loving kindness
mudra

WinterWolf

07-23-2009, 02:21 AM

TtC I believe it would be wise to reiterate your original proposition here as I believe many here have'nt read it before.
Would you do this for us?
Thank you .

Loving kindness
mudra

Wise? If I remember correctly, he was told to stop the recruiting by a Mod.

I've read the Proposition thread and there were quite a few detractors. From what was posted by various folk, it made Ttc seem rather dodgy.

artvision

07-23-2009, 06:22 AM

Dears,

The idea about the Radiant Zones as I as se fit is like this.

Even from ancient times and according with the instinct of conservation, people tend to try to preserve their life, family and possessions against the threats of the nature, animals and other humans. This has been proven by the drawings from the prehistory in caves, etc. This is why the prehistoric man look after the better protection from caves, used the tools and weapons and invented fire, just to enumerate some. Then he gathered with others in flocks and formed tribes and communities, just for the sake of defending better.

So, when someone has the insights and informations that this and that will menace his life or his properties and if he has a grain of brains, he immediately start making plans to counter that. The permanent assessment of the potential threats make part of the survival of individuals and through that, the species overall.

So, we have been informed by several people. We have been warned by some imminent and possible threats. Nobody said 100% are real and will stroke exactly in that moment, etc. Everything is prone to a degree of uncertainty (also backed in physics, by Heisenberg principle) therefore nobody could tell something will happen and the exact timing with 100% certainty. But, an intelligent person, in the know, will be capable with the best of his capacities to protect his family and his welfare and his obliged to do so, in order be called a sentient and intelligent being, rather than a sheeple or a damned idiot.

Now I want to ask you, if the guys on the Thailand beaches seeing the water withdrawing from the shore and knowing that this would be producing by a large TSUNAMI is sucking water far away, wouldn't be able to run like hell and have a better probability of escaping alive? Wouldn't many Jews given attention and care about the first actions of Hitler when gaining his power and prepared the departure well before the SHTF, wouldn't many more escaped?

Like that, we have been warned by many people and of many perils. How much of these will be the tsunami or the devastating , draconic regime we do not know, but WE HAVE THE DUTY to gather together and use our brain, inform ourselves and put the foundation of some sort of protection for us.

Now, the problem is how many people are aware, how many think this is more important than the place he/she's going in vacation, or if they afford it, etc; is then their business and their thing.

We cannot drag by the force someone not letting go to the peril and die. Maximum what we can do is to say to him, HEY, TAKE CARE! IF YO GO THERE OR DO THIS or THAT YOU WILL DIE! So such, is his or her decision to do it or not do it, as all we were created by God with this degree of free will or liberty of decision.

Think that here is not my job , nor mission to drag somebody on their sleeve say, come with me, come on my land, there you would be safe. No, I cannot say that, because I haven't at the moment the financial power, to create the retreat even for me. But I can say, hey, look, I found an area, with so and so, characteristics and there are many pieces of land across, which could make a good opportunity to create a Radiant Zone for the people who are preoccupied, have the willing and have the material resources to do that. If you want you will come buy the additional land may be left, let's work together, will cost us less, we can do great things together. It would be as a sort of cooperative of like minded persons, which they are already aware of the need of Radiant zones. In case SHTF would be very good we have each other to rely on, if SHTF not happening, then good, we have a house in an extraordinary nice place and we are a bunch of friends there, so is noting lost nor waisted. And heck , we are furnished with 2 years provision of food. So what I'm saying here is about people they are searching others, like them and also have the material possibility to sustain such a plan.

We cannot come here and say, hey look I put at the stake my land, I will construct myself the retreat, who will want to come and join me, for free , etc, etc. No, myself I cannot say nor do such a thing, because I cannot, financially speaking and I think this issue is not correct. The maximum what we can do here is to make a theoretical foundation of the organization of such radiant Zone, let this forum be a place of contact, where people would met each other and if they like and they have the means, then they PRIVATELY and by NO COERCION will decide if they want to construct a retreat or not.

Also, if we want be sincere with ourselves and recognize the fact, that right now not many people are concerned about their safety and families at the point that would sell the house, liquidate their assets and then be able to construct and move in a retreat like that. No, many people lack that degree of determination and the wits for doing such thing. Also we should accept that, not all the persons will be saved when SHTF will coming (nobody guarantee the safety neither of the Radiant Zone dwellers even!), but for sure those who disregard the warnings, the gathered wisdom and the ahead preparation for such event, will be in more danger than those who take steps ahead for their safety.

If a bunch of people, which from early time, put their brains, work and money and construct a retreat like that, well ahead SHTF and moved there with like mind other people, etc and when SHTF and a lot of strained and crazed people envy them and want to take by force their place or their provisions, I think this is not right and if this will happened in my personal case, I would defend it with my life.

So, what I'm thinking we must to do here, like many of us said, is to create an theoretical foundation of a Radiant Zone. We, the people, which are preoccupied about these issues, will be gathering together on this forum and we will agree to some document which will concentrate a common wisdom, based on many people experiences and ideas. Of course, nobody passed through what is supposed to come, but some of us maybe passed in life through very dangerous or perilous experiences that would be great to share with others.

But, judging by the small count of replies here, I'm wondering if the people consider this a pertinent idea, are convinced that SHTF will soon come and are decided and dedicated to such survival plan for them and their families.

For many, I think, is just a convenient way of killing some time. Maybe, most of the people are not really willing to leave their house just based on some mere suppositions. Others are not willing to invest money in such an enterprise, better think do other issues with it. And I think that concerned persons, with brains and possibilities they already have such thing. Remained just people which maybe are not so hardly convinced of urge of this retreat, or persons which never gave a serious thought or people who cannot afford such investment at the moment.

Anyway, the clock is ticking, force vaccination is around corner, Codex Alimentarius will strike after, internet freedom we can kiss good bye, all culminating with Oct-2011; these with or without our preparation.

So, will we doing this theoretical foundation or not, people?

WinterWolf

07-23-2009, 08:31 AM

Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green.

So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative?

Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information?

Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory?

I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference.

The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff.

Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone.

Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me.

Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them?

Playing Devil's Advocate Winter Wolf

Dears,

The idea about the Radiant Zones as I as se fit is like this.

Even from ancient times and according with the instinct of conservation, people tend to try to preserve their life, family and possessions against the threats of the nature, animals and other humans. This has been proven by the drawings from the prehistory in caves, etc. This is why the prehistoric man look after the better protection from caves, used the tools and weapons and invented fire, just to enumerate some. Then he gathered with others in flocks and formed tribes and communities, just for the sake of defending better.

So, when someone has the insights and informations that this and that will menace his life or his properties and if he has a grain of brains, he immediately start making plans to counter that. The permanent assessment of the potential threats make part of the survival of individuals and through that, the species overall.

So, we have been informed by several people. We have been warned by some imminent and possible threats. Nobody said 100% are real and will stroke exactly in that moment, etc. Everything is prone to a degree of uncertainty (also backed in physics, by Heisenberg principle) therefore nobody could tell something will happen and the exact timing with 100% certainty. But, an intelligent person, in the know, will be capable with the best of his capacities to protect his family and his welfare and his obliged to do so, in order be called a sentient and intelligent being, rather than a sheeple or a damned idiot.

Now I want to ask you, if the guys on the Thailand beaches seeing the water withdrawing from the shore and knowing that this would be producing by a large TSUNAMI is sucking water far away, wouldn't be able to run like hell and have a better probability of escaping alive? Wouldn't many Jews given attention and care about the first actions of Hitler when gaining his power and prepared the departure well before the SHTF, wouldn't many more escaped?

Like that, we have been warned by many people and of many perils. How much of these will be the tsunami or the devastating , draconic regime we do not know, but WE HAVE THE DUTY to gather together and use our brain, inform ourselves and put the foundation of some sort of protection for us.

Now, the problem is how many people are aware, how many think this is more important than the place he/she's going in vacation, or if they afford it, etc; is then their business and their thing.

We cannot drag by the force someone not letting go to the peril and die. Maximum what we can do is to say to him, HEY, TAKE CARE! IF YO GO THERE OR DO THIS or THAT YOU WILL DIE! So such, is his or her decision to do it or not do it, as all we were created by God with this degree of free will or liberty of decision.

Think that here is not my job , nor mission to drag somebody on their sleeve say, come with me, come on my land, there you would be safe. No, I cannot say that, because I haven't at the moment the financial power, to create the retreat even for me. But I can say, hey, look, I found an area, with so and so, characteristics and there are many pieces of land across, which could make a good opportunity to create a Radiant Zone for the people who are preoccupied, have the willing and have the material resources to do that. If you want you will come buy the additional land may be left, let's work together, will cost us less, we can do great things together. It would be as a sort of cooperative of like minded persons, which they are already aware of the need of Radiant zones. In case SHTF would be very good we have each other to rely on, if SHTF not happening, then good, we have a house in an extraordinary nice place and we are a bunch of friends there, so is noting lost nor waisted. And heck , we are furnished with 2 years provision of food. So what I'm saying here is about people they are searching others, like them and also have the material possibility to sustain such a plan.

We cannot come here and say, hey look I put at the stake my land, I will construct myself the retreat, who will want to come and join me, for free , etc, etc. No, myself I cannot say nor do such a thing, because I cannot, financially speaking and I think this issue is not correct. The maximum what we can do here is to make a theoretical foundation of the organization of such radiant Zone, let this forum be a place of contact, where people would met each other and if they like and they have the means, then they PRIVATELY and by NO COERCION will decide if they want to construct a retreat or not.

Also, if we want be sincere with ourselves and recognize the fact, that right now not many people are concerned about their safety and families at the point that would sell the house, liquidate their assets and then be able to construct and move in a retreat like that. No, many people lack that degree of determination and the wits for doing such thing. Also we should accept that, not all the persons will be saved when SHTF will coming (nobody guarantee the safety neither of the Radiant Zone dwellers even!), but for sure those who disregard the warnings, the gathered wisdom and the ahead preparation for such event, will be in more danger than those who take steps ahead for their safety.

If a bunch of people, which from early time, put their brains, work and money and construct a retreat like that, well ahead SHTF and moved there with like mind other people, etc and when SHTF and a lot of strained and crazed people envy them and want to take by force their place or their provisions, I think this is not right and if this will happened in my personal case, I would defend it with my life.

So, what I'm thinking we must to do here, like many of us said, is to create an theoretical foundation of a Radiant Zone. We, the people, which are preoccupied about these issues, will be gathering together on this forum and we will agree to some document which will concentrate a common wisdom, based on many people experiences and ideas. Of course, nobody passed through what is supposed to come, but some of us maybe passed in life through very dangerous or perilous experiences that would be great to share with others.

But, judging by the small count of replies here, I'm wondering if the people consider this a pertinent idea, are convinced that SHTF will soon come and are decided and dedicated to such survival plan for them and their families.

For many, I think, is just a convenient way of killing some time. Maybe, most of the people are not really willing to leave their house just based on some mere suppositions. Others are not willing to invest money in such an enterprise, better think do other issues with it. And I think that concerned persons, with brains and possibilities they already have such thing. Remained just people which maybe are not so hardly convinced of urge of this retreat, or persons which never gave a serious thought or people who cannot afford such investment at the moment.

Anyway, the clock is ticking, force vaccination is around corner, Codex Alimentarius will strike after, internet freedom we can kiss good bye, all culminating with Oct-2011; these with or without our preparation.

So, will we doing this theoretical foundation or not, people?

Carmen

07-23-2009, 08:43 AM

I have for some time been looking at models of community living which fit with my vision of what future enlightened/spiritual society will be. To me it cannot be anything like what we have had in our recent past! I am also loath to have it all written down like laws and statutes to be adhered to and enforced!! This may sound to be naive and idealistic to not have written rules and laws but its in line with how I have worked in the last few years.

Phtha's thread of the interview with Sheldon Nidle backed up my ideas. I will attempt to outline some of them and welcome feedback. Up to this point I have only implemented what I call this new way of working in the theatre (producing/directing) and in staging a horse event/parade/celebration day. I dont think my ideas are new, I think they are being applied in many areas. I applied them instinctively to something I'd never done before.

In both cases I was a somewhat reluctant leader/boss and extremely nervous about the position I was put in and my abilities. First of all I developed and held in my mind the vision of an excellent show/event. I shared that vision with all the people involved. I had their attention as they had to share the vision or it would not work. With the theatre I told them I did not want any talking behind my back. I wanted all critisizm to be addressed to me plus all ideas that the cast had. I received little or no critisism as all ideas were listened to and tried out to see if they worked!

Everyones creativity went into our show, and the level of energy, enthusasim and excellence surpassed all that I could have hoped for. I had the final say but all were in accord and all contributed their special talents.

This way of working is sort of in line with what Sheldon Nidle spoke about. That in any community there is leader or a panel of leaders. (Im not sure whether one or a panel is best) The leader or leaders have to be wise and experienced( To be in touch and guided by their Inner Self.) This person or persons hold the vision for the community and share it with all.

Everyone has their special gifts and talents that is unique to them. When any skill or talent is needed at any one time that person becomes the leader, and the rest follow and learn. When that particular activity is completed and something else is needed then the person best suited for the task steps forward and takes on the leader role. So, you see, everyone becomes a leader at some time and everyone is also a follower at other times.

As I said first off this is something formed and also still forming. The Indian guidelines and rules seem to be quite in line with how I see a successful community organisation. I think these ideas are naturally in place now at the higher levels of consciousness. Its just a matter of listening in and downloading them to our brains.

Love and Light

Carmen

Carmen

07-23-2009, 08:59 AM

Winterwolf, please give us some of your ideas so we have some idea of where you stand on the subject.

Cheers

Carmen

rhythm

07-23-2009, 09:38 AM

Carmen your words

are full of your truth

and you are im sure your going to attract

your tribe ....without to much effort

and they will be all

chiefs.... and no indians

i mean this resectfully

i mean by this .. that

a circle of chiefs

do not need A ..chief.....

in service to the one rhythmmm ..

Anchor

07-23-2009, 09:54 AM

I want to thank everyone for this thread, it is fascinating.

I want to share my vision of the future.

I see governance in the golden age of the future is going to be somewhat simpler than lists of organizational principles or rules. I have seen some examples of good rules in this thread but I maintain they are not really necessary. I think people know what is right, especially the sorts of people who will "inherit the Earth", if you know what I mean.

Free people's main aim in life will be that their neighbours fare well and prosper. These people will be almost completely "service to others oriented", and thus form a society that will not require "rules.

I have seen a quote purportedly from a high being which reads some-thing like "Take your brothers need as a measure for your action" - how much simpler can it be?

Yes it is anarchy! Non-government is basically what I am talking about, but it is a special kind of anarchy - pure, illuminated and tempered by the fact that its constituents are peaceful, harmonious and share love for all.

Leaders will be temporary, instinctively elected for a set purpose simply for organizational efficiency and not personal aggrandizement or for any power or lifestyles advantages. The processes surrounding this will be transparent and honest. A group would say let's build this house/barn here and the team would form and organize based on the group consensus and need of the moment. Somewhat Amish in style but with less reliance on old traditions and customs, but more on an instinctive and shared intuitive knowledge of the needs of the moment.

I have complete faith in the power of humanity to bring about such perfection on Earth and we here are a small part of that process.

A..

mudra

07-23-2009, 10:55 AM

Wise? If I remember correctly, he was told to stop the recruiting by a Mod.

I've read the Proposition thread and there were quite a few detractors. From what was posted by various folk, it made Ttc seem rather dodgy.
I welcome everyone on this thread WinterWolf
True discernement comes from pursuing unity in our interchanges with each other not from reacting on content.

Loving kindness
mudra

artvision

07-23-2009, 12:51 PM

Dear WinterWolf,

Thank you for your feedback! :thumb_yello:I put your remarks with lime green!

Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green.

So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative?

Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information?

Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory?

I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference.

Yes, unfortunately is true. All the information we have is just speculative, theoretical. We can split in two groups:
- the perils/menaces/dangers
- the organisation of a retreat to cope with a wide range of these threats

I don't know anybody put a paper with a signature and stamp, for example when the fiat currency is crashing, or when they will attack Iran or something, etc

For the construction of houses, many can give advices, but I do not know people actually built with that purpose as their target. At least I did see NorthenSantuary and TtC and because of that their experience is precious, let's hope they are willing to share with us.:original:

The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff.

Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone.

I do not want to seem like Darwinism, if that you understand I'm sorry. Whatever I'm saying is that first of all we should be realistically. We ARE LIVING NOW, in this world, if we want accomplish something we need to use the TOOLS, as primitive as they are, with the single purpose, to put in practice the truth.
I want to make a clear statement, that in order build something, you need money, material resources. If you can bypass that, I would be happy to hear. Now, what I'm stating, that this issue shouldn't be a hindrance for us, but also a wise man cannot exclude. We live in this world and if tomorrow my money cache is ending, nobody will feed me, just for the sake of mine. This for sure, or this is my petty experience till now.

If we are coming with extraordinary grand ideas, but which are not fesable, this is not may style. I hate the theoretically without practice, from my early faculty years, when teacher only balking but never show us something real. I think the same are appreciating many people of this forum.

Another thing that I appreciate is the TRUTH. Truth towards yourself and to the others. Without this basis, I consider nothing of value can be built!

And this thing is telling me, that I cannot help all the world so I have to refrain to directly help to my family or a hand of people because my resource are limited, but I try to be as much as help I can to other people as well. This is I wrote about this forum and was my main reason for being here.This are the issues that I stated so many times, and probably displeased you in such manner that to categorize my vision, being pure darwinism or materialism.

Even the idea of saving ALL PEOPLE is grandiose, for sure is not feasible when it come the implementation phase; look I do not want to stuck to that implementation phase. I do not want to basculate to the other extreme:

Just at grand ideas and nothing practically.

If I need bricks, and tile and concrete, I need to have money to buy, or at least I should offer something of value for it, isn't it? If this sound Darwinistically for you I'm sorry, for me is just pragmatism. Why pragmatism, because I really want built something, not just showing grandiose, inapplicable ideas on forums.

Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me.

Look WinterWolf, how many times I stated in may posts, here in this thread, that we will take measures and provisions JUST IN CASE. We cannot do more, I don't have an insider in Higher Upper circles to tell me such: "look in 3 day we will do this an that" Really this approach of us being given exact dates and be briefed exactly what happened and why and what to do, seem childlish for me, and more toward entitlement attitude, which have been seeded by elites to create a large and dependable social strata. So, I don't have friends in such higher places; If I would be in the situation of that level of information, probably I wouldn't be here, in the first place.
As many people, I search here, in Avalon, with seemed most feet-on-the-ground, serious and credible informative forum. Also the way Kerry and Bill taken interviews, while filtering what they aren't totally convinced of information genuine , is a good place for guidance and getting insights about WHAT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO HAPPEN. I would thank them and all the people here, for those informations, because selfishly brought their knowledge and shared with us.

Maybe Noah could have been cataloged as hysterical and fear mongering because he had been building his Ark? Probable, their neighbours same said about him at that times. Are we fear mongering and hysterical if we follow the guidance from God?

prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished. [Proverbs 27:12]

I don't think so. There is not about the survival of the fittest, rather is the POSSIBLE SURVIVAL of those which are not discrediting and mocking the huge amount of warning evidence, is trying to take precautionary measures and waste their time, energy and resources for this purpose.

Just think about the Noah mockers? Do people know in these days, even their names? Do you think that Noah, wouldn't care for them if they would of taken his advice and not ridiculed him in place? Could we consider him a darwinist? Even to Noah, God Himself didn't tell exactly when the flood will come, just told him to construct his Ark, and by vision send Noah tha Ark's plans.

Everybody will have what will search after:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [Matthew 7:7]

So, according with that, God assures us that we will get what we ask or we are trying to accomplish by our searches and our work. As well as those who are not search for safety, survival and protection while are mocking others.

I just have the vision of the waves slowly rising the Noah Ark and all the mockers with utmost fear in them, trying to hang themselves in a desperate move to floating Ark and I can feel the bitterness and regrets in the Noah heart that he cannot save them. As you know, nothing new under the sun, so it happened then, same will come soon, regardless which terms are you categorize that. I would categorize as REALISM PRAGMATISM, AND BE TRUTHFUL TO YOURSELF. Who say different, just trying to look nice in from of other people, couldn't be a truthful person, because when the line is draw, they cannot save everybody as they previously stated, in their desire to make better appeal to people, than one which stated from the very begining he cannot help just a handful of people.

Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them?

I'm agreeing with you, but we need to have an backbone, and structure which people would give their thought, ideas and suggestion. Without that order will be a total chaos and the purpose will be not serve.

According with me (again, I cannot know thinking of others) the purpose shoud be:
Creation of a set of directive lines, suggestions, guidance, that if sombedy will want, sometime to make a retreat for him and his friends, to be able to do ASAP, to have a place where to start. We should ilustrate there al the major thing should be considered along with suggestion or solution we consider best. A START-UP DCUMENT, if somoane is in a hurry and want start something like a Radiant Zone

This will contain the domains, best suggestion to handle, cods of conduct, procedures, what to do if, etc, etc. All that information should be gathered form myriads of people and be put in writing. We shoud state the reason why, we suggest this or that and some practica implementation.

For gathering this vast domain and huge amount data and to process and then come with a compilation which should be agreed by majority of the forum, we wil need an OUTLINE

That is I tried to do, in that document here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3c0b717f3d0cccf7931c7453395df025e04e75f6 e8ebb871

A sketch for an OUTLINER, where the people to give their contribution.
I'm not say is exhaustive and complete, far frm me this thought, but at least this is my idea we should proceed to cove these issues. Of, course as many people in the know, get involved, the Outliner will improve, I'm positive.

Right now is a point of start, because if we want to accomplish something we need some order in our thoughts and ideas.

After the Outliner is created, then we start to fill it with info from people. When is ready, discussed and approve, we can publish as a guide for a Radiant Zone.

Nobody has to abide it, just an initial guidance. But if someone will follow it, will be on the safe side. Here will come into play our collective wise.

As a summary Radiant Zone Guide issuing:

1. Presenting the main chapters of what should be in our Radiant Zone Guide (suggested by me in the pdf linked)
2. people agree with the OUTLINER (add or delete, or modify)
3. After an outliner is approved, we start to collect and gather information
4. After the collection is done, in the meantime people can give they approval or disapproval for that thing, advise, guidance, etc we will FINALISE a RADIANT ZONE GUIDE draft. Will be there for further comments/improvements
5. After a time we will be considering as final form and anybody can use it, as he thinks as is good

So, we will just create this guide, we are not trying to recruit fellow dwellers, or persons, nor sell or commercialize land, radiant living places to live or that kind of issues. I think for that level of pragmatism, is beyond the purpose of this forum and our presence here. This is not my intent and personally, I wouldn't look appreciative to such kind of commercial attitude.

Though nobody is against taht durig this process, people get knowing better each other and may think to joint together enterprise on their on and private affair, out of the forum.

Pleas free to comment, Winterwolf and folks.:welcomeani:

Oliver

07-23-2009, 02:23 PM

Friends,
Here is my humbly thinking about how the radiant zone/community should be built. I am intentionally not extensive with the explications, but I am ready to explain to anybody who is not clear with something written here.
I firmly believe that life in the group is not possible without some rules, written or spoken. Higher densities also have rules. Universe is build upon rules…The point is to keep our rules as much as possible close to the Universe’s rules, which, in my opinion, is a state of governing of the high conscious and free will, and maximally relativisation of the leadership and ownership – two main ego-manifestations in this world. Because of that I tried to mix some elements of different systems. If we prevail ego in the relations inside the community – it will be successful.
What is most important for me is that this kind of organization should be temporary, until coming of what we are all expecting, but we don’t know how it will look.
I am not pretending that this is the best model, far from it, it is just a draft, my actual thinking and contributing. Also, there are other topics that should be discussed, but in some other occasion.

Love and Respect

RADIANT ZONE COMMUNITY (TRANSITIONAL MODEL)

BASIC VALUES: Conscious, Love, Peace, Freedom, Truth, Justice, Service to others, Respect, Nature, Beauty, Spiritual growth/Enlightenment.

CRITERION FOR THE VALUES: Universal positive human legacy. Knowledge. Wisdom. Collective intuition.

AUTHORITY: Total democracy mixed with Native American Indians way and elements of anarchy. For all of the issues of importance for the community, all of the members are voting. One member one vote. There must be minimum 2/3 majority for every issue to pass. If there is no solution with 2/3 majority voting after 2 voting circles, then 3-9 elders members (Council of Elders) of the community will take the decision. Council of Elders is also a coordinative body for the voting process. Everyone has the right to propose voting issue. Every proposal will be voted.

OWNERSHIP: Community belongs to all of its members equally. Everyone participate with what he/her has. Investors own their buildings. They have no other special rights above the rest of the members. Food and water are collective own. Everyone has right on individual possession of cloth and elementary stuff.

MEMBERSHIP: New members are welcomed. Before getting full membership, they should pass the test period.

STRUCTURE: Community has society branches (education, healthcare, technology etc.) depending by the capacity of the membership. All of the branches are based upon the BASIC VALUES, specially the education. Branches are evolving in accordance with the nature environment.

CONTRIBUTION: Everyone is contributing (labor, security, education etc.) according to his/her abilities and his/her conscious. If somebody obviously abuse the confidence, he/her will be (first) warn by the Council of Elders, and if continue will be voted to leave the community.

DEFENSE&SECURITY: Everyone is included into the defense of the community, according to the occasion. Defense matter is guided by the person who is most experienced and specialized about the matter. He is woted for this position after the proposal of the Council of Elders, and his leading position is valid only when defense is required.

mudra

07-23-2009, 03:11 PM

Anchor and Carmen ,

I can only hold in respect your vision of the golden future as well as your faith in humanity and share it with you.
Given consistent love things can only blossom.
We only have to be patient enough and apply our good will to allow this to happen.

Artvision and Oliver

I agree some guide lines should be discussed and establised collectively while undergoing transition .
Rules or codes should act as a map or compass to remind us gently of our inner nature which is love and service to all.

loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-23-2009, 03:16 PM

Winterwolf, please give us some of your ideas so we have some idea of where you stand on the subject.

Cheers

Carmen

I am interested to know this as well. Please share your own views with us .

Loving kindness
mudra

Northern Boy

07-23-2009, 04:51 PM

Why not ask some one who is familiar about this community you are trying to set up . Ask Day for his input I notice he is staying out of this thread maybe he could enlighten you with what he knows

mudra

07-23-2009, 06:16 PM

Why not ask some one who is familiar about this community you are trying to set up . Ask Day for his input I notice he is staying out of this thread maybe he could enlighten you with what he knows
This is the purpose of this thread Northern Boy : that all that have experience with communities or want to set one up come and gather here to share their ideas and exchange their knowledge and wisdom.
Day is welcome to the thread . I'll inform her that it exists.

Loving kindness
mudra

Anchor

07-23-2009, 11:20 PM

I can only hold in respect your vision of the golden future as well as your faith in humanity and share it with you.
Given consistent love things can only blossom.
We only have to be patient enough and apply our good will to allow this to happen.

Thankyou for your kind comment.

I would only add, that even though it will have its rough spots, it is important that we enjoy the trip towards our Golden future!

Joy is supremely important. Without it the patience required (implying passage of third dimensional time and the flowing of the rivers of cause and effect) will be too much for anyone to bear. Nor can we sit back and wait for it all to happen! Action is necessary.

I don't mean to imply that care is not necessary either - we do walk a treacherous and challenging path. Traps and diversions beset us, but those that sincerley follow their inner light and those who are not afraid to ask for help, will be guided and protected as necessary. Even when mistakes are made, they will not be deceived or misled by anyone for long.

A..

sleepingnomore

07-23-2009, 11:41 PM

A voice of reason, yes any community will need hard work from it's prospective members and it will not be easy. I'm glad to see this is pointed out.

Would you please elaborate on the traps and treachery and how prospective members will be protected?

Thank you.

ovsalf

07-24-2009, 01:19 AM

What a pleasure to read you all on this thread. Probably like many others, it takes all my available time to just follow the exchanges and meditate on the profound wisdom generously and respectfully shared here.

From what I see in the numerous comments done so far in this thread, it is clear that the era of the lonely wolf has ended. A critical mass of like-minded people is already creating a virtual community, which will be materialized into various Radiant Zones, all connected by a spirit of good will and a dedication to spiritual evolution. As a result, much more synergy will be generated than if we maintain our isolated efforts.

Every thing easing team work will also help to initiate a chain reaction that increases awareness and will allow to free humanity from traps and treachery. In practise, each RZ will contribute to demonstrate that another way of living is possible, that a better world can quickly emerge, and that each individual is really important. Given that we are all connected in some unknown ways, I strongly believe that most people outside RZ communities will be indirectly influenced in a very positive manner by the success and evolution within the RZ (please see item #63 that Mudra has posted in this thread - The hundredth Monkey).

Ovsalf

WinterWolf

07-24-2009, 02:47 AM

I welcome everyone on this thread WinterWolf
True discernement comes from pursuing unity in our interchanges with each other not from reacting on content.

Loving kindness
mudra

Wisdom comes from being able to use ones own counsel and using all five senses and the sixth sense if one has one; to make ones own judgement on what is good for you.

You and you alone should decide what choices you make from the options presented.

Think not with just the heart but with the mind and soul. Take counsel with yourself and see if what you have learned truly resonates with you.

We are all individuals beings with our own thoughts and consciousness.

Some paths can be strewn with thorns and danger and others can be safe. I am merely shining a light upon the paths so that others can see the way for themselves. Pick as they will for it is theirs to choose as THEY will.

I am never alone.

Winter Wolf

WinterWolf

07-24-2009, 02:53 AM

Thankyou for your kind comment.

I would only add, that even though it will have its rough spots, it is important that we enjoy the trip towards our Golden future!

Joy is supremely important. Without it the patience required (implying passage of third dimensional time and the flowing of the rivers of cause and effect) will be too much for anyone to bear. Nor can we sit back and wait for it all to happen! Action is necessary.

I don't mean to imply that care is not necessary either - we do walk a treacherous and challenging path. Traps and diversions beset us, but those that sincerley follow their inner light and those who are not afraid to ask for help, will be guided and protected as necessary. Even when mistakes are made, they will not be deceived or misled by anyone for long.

A..

So. Those who do not know what that inner light is and hence are not following it will just be left by the wayside with no help at hand? These people who can not see their own inner light are not all bad individuals. They simply can not see. Will they not be guided and protected as well?

Oh wait..perhaps people are already doing that...guiding and offering protection to those who do not clearly see their own inner light....

Winter Wolf

WinterWolf

07-24-2009, 03:46 AM

Please don't be offended by what I'm posting and I don't mean to pick on you. You just happen to have the most to say at the moment.

Do you think all of those pioneering spirits who trekked out west to make a home for themselves really had any money? They built their homes through the sweat of their labor..cutting down trees, tilling the land with the tools they had...making bricks for their walls from clay.

What you need is land to build on and supposedly Ttc has it.....

If you wish to live free etc then live off of the land. The Native Americans did it.

Perhaps looking at how the Amish live and have prospered over the years can be looked at. Here's a handy link.

http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml

The internet has a vast wealth of information for anyone to find anything needed for their survival.

Noah and his famous Ark. Why did I feel like this would come up? :lol3:
Noah was following a vision sent from a Divine source. He did what his inner voice guided him to do.

Likely his neighbors probably thought he was a bit strange for building a giant boat. They probably asked him what he was doing and I really doubt he'd to raving about like a madman saying, "The end is nigh! Save yourselves or kiss your ass goodbye!" (oh hey..that rhymed! :lol3:)

Oh yes. The Creator is the Creator. No source on the Mother could possibly even compare.

Discrediting and mocking? No. Creating dialogue and attempting to punch holes in a given theory or idea is a means to test the merit of that given thing.

If all you have are a ton of people agreeing only, then how do you know where the dangers are?

There are quite a few people out there willing to bilk you of your money, trample your dignity, ruin all that you have worked for all for the sake of furthering themselves.

I would rather people not blindly leap into something without exhausting all channels of dialogue. Question so that you may know and if the answer is not satisfactory then question more.

The path to Hell was paved with good intentions.

I would rather not hear and read about another Waco or a Jonestown. I would rather not hear and read about another Heaven's Gate type of cult rising.

To those who read, I am not posting to discourage anyone. I merely wish for people to choose with wisdom, knowledge and their eyes wide open.

“If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit. (Matthew 15:14)”

Winter Wolf

Dear WinterWolf,

Thank you for your feedback! :thumb_yello:I put your remarks with lime green!

Are you saying this is your idea..your vision as you see fit about the Radiant Zones here? I highlighted it in green.

So...are you saying all of this pertinent and important information is all theoretical, hypothetical and speculative?

Or do you mean building the Radiant Zone is based on theoretical, hypothetical and speculative information?

Perhaps you are saying the tenets/foundation/base of what the Radiant Zone will be establish on is just a result of theory?

I highlighted the last sentence in green for reference.

Yes, unfortunately is true. All the information we have is just speculative, theoretical. We can split in two groups:
- the perils/menaces/dangers
- the organisation of a retreat to cope with a wide range of these threats

I don't know anybody put a paper with a signature and stamp, for example when the fiat currency is crashing, or when they will attack Iran or something, etc

For the construction of houses, many can give advices, but I do not know people actually built with that purpose as their target. At least I did see NorthenSantuary and TtC and because of that their experience is precious, let's hope they are willing to share with us.:original:

The rest of what you've said sounds a lot like Darwinism to me. The survival of the fittest..the strong over the weak. Sift through the wheat and throw out the chaff.

Oh yeah, people will become crazy and envious because there's a bunch of people living in the Radiant Zone.

I do not want to seem like Darwinism, if that you understand I'm sorry. Whatever I'm saying is that first of all we should be realistically. We ARE LIVING NOW, in this world, if we want accomplish something we need to use the TOOLS, as primitive as they are, with the single purpose, to put in practice the truth.
I want to make a clear statement, that in order build something, you need money, material resources. If you can bypass that, I would be happy to hear. Now, what I'm stating, that this issue shouldn't be a hindrance for us, but also a wise man cannot exclude. We live in this world and if tomorrow my money cache is ending, nobody will feed me, just for the sake of mine. This for sure, or this is my petty experience till now.

If we are coming with extraordinary grand ideas, but which are not fesable, this is not may style. I hate the theoretically without practice, from my early faculty years, when teacher only balking but never show us something real. I think the same are appreciating many people of this forum.

Another thing that I appreciate is the TRUTH. Truth towards yourself and to the others. Without this basis, I consider nothing of value can be built!

And this thing is telling me, that I cannot help all the world so I have to refrain to directly help to my family or a hand of people because my resource are limited, but I try to be as much as help I can to other people as well. This is I wrote about this forum and was my main reason for being here.This are the issues that I stated so many times, and probably displeased you in such manner that to categorize my vision, being pure darwinism or materialism.

Even the idea of saving ALL PEOPLE is grandiose, for sure is not feasible when it come the implementation phase; look I do not want to stuck to that implementation phase. I do not want to basculate to the other extreme:

Just at grand ideas and nothing practically.

If I need bricks, and tile and concrete, I need to have money to buy, or at least I should offer something of value for it, isn't it? If this sound Darwinistically for you I'm sorry, for me is just pragmatism. Why pragmatism, because I really want built something, not just showing grandiose, inapplicable ideas on forums.

Fear mongering? Hysteria? I don't know. You tell me.

Look WinterWolf, how many times I stated in may posts, here in this thread, that we will take measures and provisions JUST IN CASE. We cannot do more, I don't have an insider in Higher Upper circles to tell me such: "look in 3 day we will do this an that" Really this approach of us being given exact dates and be briefed exactly what happened and why and what to do, seem childlish for me, and more toward entitlement attitude, which have been seeded by elites to create a large and dependable social strata. So, I don't have friends in such higher places; If I would be in the situation of that level of information, probably I wouldn't be here, in the first place.
As many people, I search here, in Avalon, with seemed most feet-on-the-ground, serious and credible informative forum. Also the way Kerry and Bill taken interviews, while filtering what they aren't totally convinced of information genuine , is a good place for guidance and getting insights about WHAT MAY BE POSSIBLE TO HAPPEN. I would thank them and all the people here, for those informations, because selfishly brought their knowledge and shared with us.

Maybe Noah could have been cataloged as hysterical and fear mongering because he had been building his Ark? Probable, their neighbours same said about him at that times. Are we fear mongering and hysterical if we follow the guidance from God?

prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished. [Proverbs 27:12]

I don't think so. There is not about the survival of the fittest, rather is the POSSIBLE SURVIVAL of those which are not discrediting and mocking the huge amount of warning evidence, is trying to take precautionary measures and waste their time, energy and resources for this purpose.

Just think about the Noah mockers? Do people know in these days, even their names? Do you think that Noah, wouldn't care for them if they would of taken his advice and not ridiculed him in place? Could we consider him a darwinist? Even to Noah, God Himself didn't tell exactly when the flood will come, just told him to construct his Ark, and by vision send Noah tha Ark's plans.

Everybody will have what will search after:

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. [Matthew 7:7]

So, according with that, God assures us that we will get what we ask or we are trying to accomplish by our searches and our work. As well as those who are not search for safety, survival and protection while are mocking others.

I just have the vision of the waves slowly rising the Noah Ark and all the mockers with utmost fear in them, trying to hang themselves in a desperate move to floating Ark and I can feel the bitterness and regrets in the Noah heart that he cannot save them. As you know, nothing new under the sun, so it happened then, same will come soon, regardless which terms are you categorize that. I would categorize as REALISM PRAGMATISM, AND BE TRUTHFUL TO YOURSELF. Who say different, just trying to look nice in from of other people, couldn't be a truthful person, because when the line is draw, they cannot save everybody as they previously stated, in their desire to make better appeal to people, than one which stated from the very begining he cannot help just a handful of people.

Why not just post the relevant information out there without ones own personal spin on it? Why not just let people read it and let them make their own informed judgement on what needs to be done for them?

I'm agreeing with you, but we need to have an backbone, and structure which people would give their thought, ideas and suggestion. Without that order will be a total chaos and the purpose will be not serve.

According with me (again, I cannot know thinking of others) the purpose shoud be:
Creation of a set of directive lines, suggestions, guidance, that if sombedy will want, sometime to make a retreat for him and his friends, to be able to do ASAP, to have a place where to start. We should ilustrate there al the major thing should be considered along with suggestion or solution we consider best. A START-UP DCUMENT, if somoane is in a hurry and want start something like a Radiant Zone

This will contain the domains, best suggestion to handle, cods of conduct, procedures, what to do if, etc, etc. All that information should be gathered form myriads of people and be put in writing. We shoud state the reason why, we suggest this or that and some practica implementation.

For gathering this vast domain and huge amount data and to process and then come with a compilation which should be agreed by majority of the forum, we wil need an OUTLINE

That is I tried to do, in that document here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=3c0b717f3d0cccf7931c7453395df025e04e75f6 e8ebb871

A sketch for an OUTLINER, where the people to give their contribution.
I'm not say is exhaustive and complete, far frm me this thought, but at least this is my idea we should proceed to cove these issues. Of, course as many people in the know, get involved, the Outliner will improve, I'm positive.

Right now is a point of start, because if we want to accomplish something we need some order in our thoughts and ideas.

After the Outliner is created, then we start to fill it with info from people. When is ready, discussed and approve, we can publish as a guide for a Radiant Zone.

Nobody has to abide it, just an initial guidance. But if someone will follow it, will be on the safe side. Here will come into play our collective wise.

As a summary Radiant Zone Guide issuing:

1. Presenting the main chapters of what should be in our Radiant Zone Guide (suggested by me in the pdf linked)
2. people agree with the OUTLINER (add or delete, or modify)
3. After an outliner is approved, we start to collect and gather information
4. After the collection is done, in the meantime people can give they approval or disapproval for that thing, advise, guidance, etc we will FINALISE a RADIANT ZONE GUIDE draft. Will be there for further comments/improvements
5. After a time we will be considering as final form and anybody can use it, as he thinks as is good

So, we will just create this guide, we are not trying to recruit fellow dwellers, or persons, nor sell or commercialize land, radiant living places to live or that kind of issues. I think for that level of pragmatism, is beyond the purpose of this forum and our presence here. This is not my intent and personally, I wouldn't look appreciative to such kind of commercial attitude.

Though nobody is against taht durig this process, people get knowing better each other and may think to joint together enterprise on their on and private affair, out of the forum.

Pleas free to comment, Winterwolf and folks.:welcomeani:

mudra

07-24-2009, 06:14 AM

Wisdom comes from being able to use ones own counsel and using all five senses and the sixth sense if one has one; to make ones own judgement on what is good for you.

You and you alone should decide what choices you make from the options presented.

Think not with just the heart but with the mind and soul. Take counsel with yourself and see if what you have learned truly resonates with you.

We are all individuals beings with our own thoughts and consciousness.

Some paths can be strewn with thorns and danger and others can be safe. I am merely shining a light upon the paths so that others can see the way for themselves. Pick as they will for it is theirs to choose as THEY will.

I am never alone.

Winter Wolf

Very well said Winter Wolf I can only agree with you and uphold the same values.
Thank you

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-24-2009, 06:16 AM

From what I see in the numerous comments done so far in this thread, it is clear that the era of the lonely wolf has ended. A critical mass of like-minded people is already creating a virtual community, which will be materialized into various Radiant Zones, all connected by a spirit of good will and a dedication to spiritual evolution. As a result, much more synergy will be generated than if we maintain our isolated efforts.

Every thing easing team work will also help to initiate a chain reaction that increases awareness and will allow to free humanity from traps and treachery. In practise, each RZ will contribute to demonstrate that another way of living is possible, that a better world can quickly emerge, and that each individual is really important. Given that we are all connected in some unknown ways, I strongly believe that most people outside RZ communities will be indirectly influenced in a very positive manner by the success and evolution within the RZ (please see item #63 that Mudra has posted in this thread - The hundredth Monkey).

Ovsalf

Thank you Ovsalf .
I see in you another me ;)

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-24-2009, 06:33 AM

If you wish to live free etc then live off of the land. The Native Americans did it.

I beleive we all feel the need for this and agree to go " wild " closer to mother Earth .

Perhaps looking at how the Amish live and have prospered over the years can be looked at. Here's a handy link.
http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml

The internet has a vast wealth of information for anyone to find anything needed for their survival.

Good point indeed . I believe we can learn a lot from those that lived or have been living in communities before .Their experience is a pool to tap into .

Discrediting and mocking? No. Creating dialogue and attempting to punch holes in a given theory or idea is a means to test the merit of that given thing.

If all you have are a ton of people agreeing only, then how do you know where the dangers are?

Constructive dialogue is the spirit of the thread. I welcome this and will always encourage it.

I would rather people not blindly leap into something without exhausting all channels of dialogue. Question so that you may know and if the answer is not satisfactory then question more.

You are completely right .So let's clearly reiterate the purpose of this thread: gathering a pool of information as regard communities , exchange ideas , answering pertinent questions , dialogue towards unity and treat each other with respect as we go along.

To those who read, I am not posting to discourage anyone. I merely wish for people to choose with wisdom, knowledge and their eyes wide open.

“If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit. (Matthew 15:14)”

I appreciate your presence on the thread Winter Wolf .
Thank you for being here .

These are my own thoughts regarding yours posted to Artivision.
I am not speaking however in the name of Artivision.

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-24-2009, 09:44 AM

Would you please elaborate on the traps and treachery and how prospective members will be protected?

Thank you.

Gather all the infos
Analyse them
Ask enough questions to your own satisfaction
Respect all points of view and learn something from them
When you accept something do it from your heart , mind and soul.
Know before you go .
Be faithfull to yourself and to others
Know you are the creator of your own universe
Allow miracles to happen. ;)

Loving kindness
mudra

sleepingnomore

07-24-2009, 01:27 PM

Strange I thought I addressed that quetion to Anchor as he posted it. I don't understand why you are answering for him mudra. Are you the group's spokesperson?

Anchor

07-24-2009, 02:02 PM

SNM: There are a couple of posts in this thread I want to address including yours but I need to sleep first ;) This weekend I will have a go at answering you and WW.

A..

mudra

07-24-2009, 02:20 PM

Strange I thought I addressed that quetion to Anchor as he posted it. I don't understand why you are answering for him mudra. Are you the group's spokesperson?
Excuse me Sleepingnomore no I am not the spokesman on this thread .I only started the thread.
As you did'nt quote Anchor I did'nt realize that question you had was adressed to him .
Sorry for this Anchor .
And thank you Sleepingnomore for pointing it out :thumb_yello:

Loving kindness
mudra

artvision

07-24-2009, 05:57 PM

In response to WinterWolf:

Please don't be offended by what I'm posting and I don't mean to pick on you. You just happen to have the most to say at the moment.

I'm not offended, believe me. Usually people determined to do something, get "lots of attention". I will take that just a strengthening factor. There is a saying, when you want do something, DO NOT TELL ANYONE. Because many will be find, telling and assuring you, that what you want to do, is impossible.

Do you think all of those pioneering spirits who trekked out west to make a home for themselves really had any money? They built their homes through the sweat of their labor..cutting down trees, tilling the land with the tools they had...making bricks for their walls from clay.

What you need is land to build on and supposedly Ttc has it.....

If you wish to live free etc then live off of the land. The Native Americans did it.

You seem not anchored in reality WinterWolf. That story, was going on in 1800's, when the pioneers were stealing the land of those that "live off of the land"; just check the history books. The rest with sweat and everything, who says will not come into place? I just said the money are mandatory just to start constructing the RZ. Buying land, materials, etc. Also the

Perhaps looking at how the Amish live and have prospered over the years can be looked at. Here's a handy link.

http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml

Good, I much appreciate the Amish society and their survival stamina unaltered for hundreds of years. Much is to be to learn from them and from Native Indians.

The internet has a vast wealth of information for anyone to find anything needed for their survival.

Yes, but will be for no much help if somebody needs something in rush, as we see today bad things happening at fast pace, in the world. The whole point is to collect information from skillful people, information that is granted to be valid by their own expertise; we are not discussing something similar such advertising for survival kits, from internet. This is the whole point WinterWolf, I'm sorry you missed it. I think this is you wanted Mudra, in the first place, right?

Noah and his famous Ark. Why did I feel like this would come up? :lol3:

Because you know you discuss with higher IQ people. Anyway this forum will discourage others. You know that, because also you are active here, right?

Noah was following a vision sent from a Divine source. He did what his inner voice guided him to do.

How do you know, that is not the same, also for me? Also, it would have been easier for me leave the things alone, but I feel that I can't. We need to do something, more than pointing links on the internet. We need to do something from our own and for people benefits. This I thought, was all the point for a thread like this. If there are no people benefit from our comments, then our comments would be redundant, wouldn't be so?

Likely his neighbors probably thought he was a bit strange for building a giant boat. They probably asked him what he was doing and I really doubt he'd to raving about like a madman saying, "The end is nigh! Save yourselves or kiss your ass goodbye!" (oh hey..that rhymed! :lol3:)

Judging after same is happening today, is no use to try wake up them, so hardly, to pressure people, no. Every soul will be waked up at the right moment, proper for him. Maybe Noah such has been instructed by God, or maybe get tired to wake up the mocking flock. Everything are suppositions.

Oh yes. The Creator is the Creator. No source on the Mother could possibly even compare.

Discrediting and mocking? No. Creating dialogue and attempting to punch holes in a given theory or idea is a means to test the merit of that given thing.
If all you have are a ton of people agreeing only, then how do you know where the dangers are?

Good, so to understand that you are here, like a white hat hacker, trying to test the security of it's own server? Nice, though!
People like me like to be kept on edge and not rusting! You can keep going on, no problem! But the issue here, if I understood right, was to gather important and relevant issues/procedures/guides for the people, not testing the shallowness or the deepness of other poster minds. The issue here was not to agree or not, but to contribute or not, but with latest posts, we are furthering most from the last affirmation, that with contribution...

There are quite a few people out there willing to bilk you of your money, trample your dignity, ruin all that you have worked for all for the sake of furthering themselves.

Really I never had that impression you mention, being here for long as observer and short as poster, but never occurred me things you were saying. But maybe your experience is different, I'm sorry you encountered such characters here.
Most of the people posts here, seem to be great folks, very open mind, intelligent, bright, enlightened and of good character, otherwise I wouldn't join in the first place, anyway is the only forum I write, in my entire life (and I'm not young, though). Sorry for you feel so...

I would rather people not blindly leap into something without exhausting all channels of dialogue. Question so that you may know and if the answer is not satisfactory then question more.

Yes, this was the whole point, we said we must do this Radiant Zone informative gathering, by asking one, another, etc. That we were doing up to now, or thought we were doing up to now. Now, I'm not so sure...

The path to Hell was paved with good intentions.

I would rather not hear and read about another Waco or a Jonestown. I would rather not hear and read about another Heaven's Gate type of cult rising.

I think your imagination is much drifting here :lol3: We are not to the point of even knowing why we need of a Radiant Zone in the first place (some people, not all) we are not so close to a Jonestown or such :lmao:.
If your feelings are that this will be the outcome of our activity here, I will be scared to the point of not contributing to this thread, just because being afraid of these bad things might happen. What we discuss at this specific point is like: Who is to be blamed for a crime? The manufacturer of the weapon because the weapon killed that victim, or the person which handled/triggered/ that weapon?

To those who read, I am not posting to discourage anyone. I merely wish for people to choose with wisdom, knowledge and their eyes wide open.

Be sure, there are people here, that they saw DEATH with their eyes, not so easy you to discourage. :mfr_lol:
The rest which may be discouraged, maybe they shouldn't be on this thread anyhow. Life is not a walk in the park, don't mention the "goodies' that TPTB are preparing for us; even lesser. And do not be a fear monger, nor a hysteric, as some people categorise such attitude. I just want to be aware, that nasty things could happen and human with their capabilities, must survive them.
So, I suggest people with feeble courage to bite their hearts and stay, who knows maybe some people really in the business of survival, will join us, thrashing our babbling and we all have to learn from them. Who knows?

“If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit. (Matthew 15:14)”

Winter Wolf[/QUOTE]

Agree with you for the saying, but here it was not the case, anybody leading anybody. We are all mature, well seasoned people, with our heads on our shoulders and I didn't feel somebody lead other to something, though a guidance should be in place, just for not loosing the final aim. Which I feel we start to loose. Therefore I kindly ask people start contributing, first to create the guiding lines of what we need to cover and then flesh it out with proper information rather than open philosophical dilemmas which were not solved for thousands of years before us, by even brighter beings that may have been existed up to now.

What do you say people?

Oliver

07-24-2009, 08:18 PM

What I say Artvision (and Winter Wolf) is that...I would like communities to possess horses!

Come on, people...! You are both right. Lets back to the matter.:thumb_yello:

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=659&pictureid=6999

WinterWolf

07-24-2009, 08:34 PM

Wow. So now I am living in my own world? Do you resort to personal attacks when you can't think of anything better to say?

Talking to higher IQ people. Wow.

I laughed so hard at this entire post that I almost snorted my orange juice while I was drinking it and reading this.

I have dealt with you with respect and you attack me. That's really good of you. I should give you a gold star.

Your comment on you are all far from the Jim Jones fall out right now. So are you saying there is potential for it?

Have you even read anything about Jonestown and the Agricultural Project? It all started out well and then descended into madness.

I speak of caution for anyone who decides to join any community with the greatest of intentions.

It isn't for me to decide for the viewers. All I am doing is putting in dissenting views to try and get total transparency on the Radiant Zone.

I am done with this whole debacle. You insult my intelligence and me with thus rhetoric.

Honestly I do not think you even know what I am about or am doing. I don't even know why I even bothered to lower my spiritual energy to match most on the board for...

The Mods can feel free to ban me if they like. Then again those who are following this thread will see that anyone playing devil's advocate or simply wishing to present a different view for fact finding will just be punished.

Winter Wolf in service to the Creator.

In response to WinterWolf:

Please don't be offended by what I'm posting and I don't mean to pick on you. You just happen to have the most to say at the moment.

I'm not offended, believe me. Usually people determined to do something, get "lots of attention". I will take that just a strengthening factor. There is a saying, when you want do something, DO NOT TELL ANYONE. Because many will be find, telling and assuring you, that what you want to do, is impossible.

Do you think all of those pioneering spirits who trekked out west to make a home for themselves really had any money? They built their homes through the sweat of their labor..cutting down trees, tilling the land with the tools they had...making bricks for their walls from clay.

What you need is land to build on and supposedly Ttc has it.....

If you wish to live free etc then live off of the land. The Native Americans did it.

You seem not anchored in reality WinterWolf. That story, was going on in 1800's, when the pioneers were stealing the land of those that "live off of the land"; just check the history books. The rest with sweat and everything, who says will not come into place? I just said the money are mandatory just to start constructing the RZ. Buying land, materials, etc. Also the

Perhaps looking at how the Amish live and have prospered over the years can be looked at. Here's a handy link.

http://www.800padutch.com/amish.shtml

Good, I much appreciate the Amish society and their survival stamina unaltered for hundreds of years. Much is to be to learn from them and from Native Indians.

The internet has a vast wealth of information for anyone to find anything needed for their survival.

Yes, but will be for no much help if somebody needs something in rush, as we see today bad things happening at fast pace, in the world. The whole point is to collect information from skillful people, information that is granted to be valid by their own expertise; we are not discussing something similar such advertising for survival kits, from internet. This is the whole point WinterWolf, I'm sorry you missed it. I think this is you wanted Mudra, in the first place, right?

Noah and his famous Ark. Why did I feel like this would come up? :lol3:

Because you know you discuss with higher IQ people. Anyway this forum will discourage others. You know that, because also you are active here, right?

Noah was following a vision sent from a Divine source. He did what his inner voice guided him to do.

How do you know, that is not the same, also for me? Also, it would have been easier for me leave the things alone, but I feel that I can't. We need to do something, more than pointing links on the internet. We need to do something from our own and for people benefits. This I thought, was all the point for a thread like this. If there are no people benefit from our comments, then our comments would be redundant, wouldn't be so?

Likely his neighbors probably thought he was a bit strange for building a giant boat. They probably asked him what he was doing and I really doubt he'd to raving about like a madman saying, "The end is nigh! Save yourselves or kiss your ass goodbye!" (oh hey..that rhymed! :lol3:)

Judging after same is happening today, is no use to try wake up them, so hardly, to pressure people, no. Every soul will be waked up at the right moment, proper for him. Maybe Noah such has been instructed by God, or maybe get tired to wake up the mocking flock. Everything are suppositions.

Oh yes. The Creator is the Creator. No source on the Mother could possibly even compare.

Discrediting and mocking? No. Creating dialogue and attempting to punch holes in a given theory or idea is a means to test the merit of that given thing.
If all you have are a ton of people agreeing only, then how do you know where the dangers are?

Good, so to understand that you are here, like a white hat hacker, trying to test the security of it's own server? Nice, though!
People like me like to be kept on edge and not rusting! You can keep going on, no problem! But the issue here, if I understood right, was to gather important and relevant issues/procedures/guides for the people, not testing the shallowness or the deepness of other poster minds. The issue here was not to agree or not, but to contribute or not, but with latest posts, we are furthering most from the last affirmation, that with contribution...

There are quite a few people out there willing to bilk you of your money, trample your dignity, ruin all that you have worked for all for the sake of furthering themselves.

Really I never had that impression you mention, being here for long as observer and short as poster, but never occurred me things you were saying. But maybe your experience is different, I'm sorry you encountered such characters here.
Most of the people posts here, seem to be great folks, very open mind, intelligent, bright, enlightened and of good character, otherwise I wouldn't join in the first place, anyway is the only forum I write, in my entire life (and I'm not young, though). Sorry for you feel so...

I would rather people not blindly leap into something without exhausting all channels of dialogue. Question so that you may know and if the answer is not satisfactory then question more.

Yes, this was the whole point, we said we must do this Radiant Zone informative gathering, by asking one, another, etc. That we were doing up to now, or thought we were doing up to now. Now, I'm not so sure...

The path to Hell was paved with good intentions.

I would rather not hear and read about another Waco or a Jonestown. I would rather not hear and read about another Heaven's Gate type of cult rising.

I think your imagination is much drifting here :lol3: We are not to the point of even knowing why we need of a Radiant Zone in the first place (some people, not all) we are not so close to a Jonestown or such :lmao:.
If your feelings are that this will be the outcome of our activity here, I will be scared to the point of not contributing to this thread, just because being afraid of these bad things might happen. What we discuss at this specific point is like: Who is to be blamed for a crime? The manufacturer of the weapon because the weapon killed that victim, or the person which handled/triggered/ that weapon?

To those who read, I am not posting to discourage anyone. I merely wish for people to choose with wisdom, knowledge and their eyes wide open.

Be sure, there are people here, that they saw DEATH with their eyes, not so easy you to discourage. :mfr_lol:
The rest which may be discouraged, maybe they shouldn't be on this thread anyhow. Life is not a walk in the park, don't mention the "goodies' that TPTB are preparing for us; even lesser. And do not be a fear monger, nor a hysteric, as some people categorise such attitude. I just want to be aware, that nasty things could happen and human with their capabilities, must survive them.
So, I suggest people with feeble courage to bite their hearts and stay, who knows maybe some people really in the business of survival, will join us, thrashing our babbling and we all have to learn from them. Who knows?

“If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit. (Matthew 15:14)”

Winter Wolf

Agree with you for the saying, but here it was not the case, anybody leading anybody. We are all mature, well seasoned people, with our heads on our shoulders and I didn't feel somebody lead other to something, though a guidance should be in place, just for not loosing the final aim. Which I feel we start to loose. Therefore I kindly ask people start contributing, first to create the guiding lines of what we need to cover and then flesh it out with proper information rather than open philosophical dilemmas which were not solved for thousands of years before us, by even brighter beings that may have been existed up to now.

What do you say people?[/QUOTE]

artvision

07-24-2009, 10:02 PM

Wow. So now I am living in my own world? Do you resort to personal attacks when you can't think of anything better to say?

No, WinterWolf, I resort at personal attackes as much as you did.
Did you already forget the qulificatives of "darwinist", "hysteric" and "fear mongering"? Just look tree posts upstairs, in your comments. Seem very easy forgeting when is about you! I'm respond in the way as I'm approached. If I'm approached with kindness and delicacy, I answer accordingly, though what you expected, after you thrown words as rocks in me? Is like Action and Reaction. I'm far away be like Jesus. I didn't learn yet, to turn the other cheek.

Talking to higher IQ people. Wow.

Look even you don't consider myself as higher IQ, is OK, it is only 131 on Tickle's IQ test, yes, not seems matching the reality as long as I'm answering you. You guessed, I'm sure, with your top IQ, that I'm continuing to answer just for the respect I have for this forum and for the people here you are not getting tired to mock and offend.

I laughed so hard at this entire post that I almost snorted my orange juice while I was drinking it and reading this.

It is your business that you laughed so hard, is good for the health, but anyway you didn't share with us what's your reasons for such laugh, as much as all discussion before you get with the boots in, seems very constructive and serious. No fun there. You just started with warnings, take care, so on so.. like people here are 5 years old and need a nanny to tell them how to behave. Not only that, but the people trying to contribute something, you make them indirectly, fear mongers and hysterics. I'm wondering what should we do, just you not laugh? Maybe to devour fascinated and in trance-like, your words of wisdom? Would then you more appreciated us? Or maybe then you would have been laugh snorting a barrel of orange juice, not only a glass, as you say. As a survival advice for you: when you read avalon forum, refrain from drinking liquids, seems very dangerous for your health :mfr_lol:

I have dealt with you with respect and you attack me. That's really good of you. I should give you a gold star.

Your comment on you are all far from the Jim Jones fall out right now. So are you saying there is potential for it?

Have you even read anything about Jonestown and the Agricultural Project? It all started out well and then descended into madness.

The respect you are talking about, from your word seems a vesuvius, but when you look in your posts, is very subtle to the point of not be detected; at least with our brains of low IQ, which you laugh at. This issue with Jonestown and with religious sects, seems far fetched for me to bring in discussion alegedly of what we have been spoken up to now, I think that you brought just you be able to fear mongering and intimidate more sensible persons here. This is the only reason you brought that subject! Seems you weren't interested in the topic per se. Be truthful with us and tell if you even have the curiosity to open the pdf with the visual chart of the Radiant Zones? If someone asks me, I would tell him, you didn't. Sorry if I'm wrong, but from what you said up to now, for me, didn't seemed has the slightest relation with topic, nicely brought by Mudra, wish to thank with this occasion.

I speak of caution for anyone who decides to join any community with the greatest of intentions.

Here's the nanny pitch again!:shocked:
And first of all here we didn't discuss about joining any Radiant Zones, jus we were debating what should contain and how to be organized. But seems you didn't bother to read thoroughly.

It isn't for me to decide for the viewers. All I am doing is putting in dissenting views to try and get total transparency on the Radiant Zone.

From your post, seem contrary with your affirmation, seems you want to decide. What to follow, what not worth follow; what is of good value, what is theoretical and so on...If your dissenting views relate with posting people's IQ, and people bilk others money, maybe you are right. When is about Radiant Zone, I didn't remain with some idea from you.

I am done with this whole debacle. You insult my intelligence and me with thus rhetoric.

Me too. Seems that when you see someone is matching your agresivity and is not intimidate easily, you decide to stop the fight and snickely attack some other time, when the ocassion is right. I'm sure you will say no, to that!:roll1::roll1:

Honestly I do not think you even know what I am about or am doing. I don't even know why I even bothered to lower my spiritual energy to match most on the board for...

Great, how yourself get the mask off from your face. Up to here you were nannying us, supposedly because of care for us, the poor people, maybe sheeple, you consider us, almost be hoarded by a virtual Avalonic Jim Jones, or a Koresh Lider Maximo, but now that you see you bite on rock, you back off.

The Mods can feel free to ban me if they like. Then again those who are following this thread will see that anyone playing devil's advocate or simply wishing to present a different view for fact finding will just be punished.

You talk too much about devil, for my like. That in mix with Creator, is reflecting a dire and strange light from your side.
About banning from forum, I think that as long this is the opinion of people here, as is good, bad, whatever, they not banning you nor anyone else at least we maintain a decent tone, even we criticize some ideas, behavior or sometime peoples. Why, because we are not perfect beings and we have our pride, ego, selfishness, or instinct of survival. But this with moderation. Thank you for your feedback, really I appreciate even is more criticism in it, because there wouldn't be good, without existence of evil (not related with our discussion here)

Winter Wolf in service to the Creator.

I will end also this debate, because didn't advance the RZ issues, but talking too much to/about wolves here in the thread, I'm afraid not ending as a Lone Wolf!:sneaky2:
This and that that I do not want to bother nor upset such kind people here, which I much respect! :cheers:
Look, very interesting signature you have. I like that idea with always being a warrior. But there is a difference in to be one, or just to shout this.
My signature, I'd like to be:

SURVIVAL=5B's
Belief, Brains, Beans, Bullets, Bandaids

mudra

07-24-2009, 10:46 PM

Artvision _Winterwolf

Beyond polemic there is always another solution .One that stands from higher being and that is grounded in your heart.
Cool off the heat and find that third way of apprehending things.

Equanimity

adapted from a talk by Gil Fronsdal, May 29th, 2004

Equanimity is one of the most sublime emotions of Buddhist practice. It is the ground for wisdom and freedom and the protector of compassion and love. While some may think of equanimity as dry neutrality or cool aloofness, mature equanimity produces a radiance and warmth of being. The Buddha described a mind filled with equanimity as "abundant, exalted, immeasurable, without hostility and without ill-will."

The English word "equanimity" translates two separate Pali words used by the Buddha. Each represents a different aspect of equanimity.

The most common Pali word translated as "equanimity" is upekkha, meaning "to look over." It refers to the equanimity that arises from the power of observation, the ability to see without being caught by what we see. When well-developed, such power gives rise to a great sense of peace.

Upekkha can also refer to the ease that comes from seeing a bigger picture. Colloquially, in India the word was sometimes used to mean "to see with patience." We might understand this as "seeing with understanding." For example, when we know not to take offensive words personally, we are less likely to react to what was said. Instead, we remain at ease or equanimous. This form of equanimity is sometimes compared to grandmotherly love. The grandmother clearly loves her grandchildren but, thanks to her experience with her own children, is less likely to be caught up in the drama of her grandchildren's lives.

The second word often translated as equanimity is tatramajjhattata, a compound made of simple Pali words. Tatra, meaning "there," sometimes refers to "all these things." Majjha means "middle," and tata means "to stand or to pose." Put together, the word becomes "to stand in the middle of all this." As a form of equanimity, "being in the middle" refers to balance, to remaining centered in the middle of whatever is happening. This balance comes from inner strength or stability. The strong presence of inner calm, well-being, confidence, vitality, or integrity can keep us upright, like a ballast keeps a ship upright in strong winds. As inner strength develops, equanimity follows.

Equanimity is a protection from the "eight worldly winds": praise and blame, success and failure, pleasure and pain, fame and disrepute. Becoming attached to or excessively elated with success, praise, fame or pleasure can be a set-up for suffering when the winds of life change direction. For example, success can be wonderful, but if it leads to arrogance, we have more to lose in future challenges. Becoming personally invested in praise can tend toward conceit. Identifying with failure, we may feel incompetent or inadequate. Reacting to pain, we may become discouraged. If we understand or feel that our sense of inner well-being is independent of the eight winds, we are more likely to remain on an even keel in their midst.

One approach to developing equanimity is to cultivate the qualities of mind that support it. Seven mental qualities support the development of equanimity.

The first is virtue or integrity. When we live and act with integrity, we feel confident about our actions and words, which results in the equanimity of blamelessness. The ancient Buddhist texts speak of being able to go into any assembly of people and feel blameless.

The second support for equanimity is the sense of assurance that comes from faith. While any kind of faith can provide equanimity, faith grounded in wisdom is especially powerful. The Pali word for faith, saddha, is also translated as conviction or confidence. If we have confidence, for example, in our ability to engage in a spiritual practice, then we are more likely to meet its challenges with equanimity.

The third support is a well-developed mind. Much as we might develop physical strength, balance, and stability of the body in a gym, so too can we develop strength, balance and stability of the mind. This is done through practices that cultivate calm, concentration and mindfulness. When the mind is calm, we are less likely to be blown about by the worldly winds.

The fourth support is a sense of well-being. We do not need to leave well-being to chance. In Buddhism, it is considered appropriate and helpful to cultivate and enhance our well-being. We often overlook the well-being that is easily available in daily life. Even taking time to enjoy one's tea or the sunset can be a training in well-being.

The fifth support for equanimity is understanding or wisdom. Wisdom is an important factor in learning to have an accepting awareness, to be present for whatever is happening without the mind or heart contracting or resisting. Wisdom can teach us to separate people's actions from who they are. We can agree or disagree with their actions, but remain balanced in our relationship with them. We can also understand that our own thoughts and impulses are the result of impersonal conditions. By not taking them so personally, we are more likely to stay at ease with their arising.

Another way wisdom supports equanimity is in understanding that people are responsible for their own decisions, which helps us to find equanimity in the face of other people's suffering. We can wish the best for them, but we avoid being buffeted by a false sense of responsibility for their well-being.

One of the most powerful ways to use wisdom to facilitate equanimity is to be mindful of when equanimity is absent. Honest awareness of what makes us imbalanced helps us to learn how to find balance.

The sixth support is insight, a deep seeing into the nature of things as they are. One of the primary insights is the nature of impermanence. In the deepest forms of this insight, we see that things change so quickly that we can't hold onto anything, and eventually the mind lets go of clinging. Letting go brings equanimity; the greater the letting go, the deeper the equanimity.

The final support is freedom, which comes as we begin to let go of our reactive tendencies. We can get a taste of what this means by noticing areas in which we were once reactive but are no longer. For example, some issues that upset us when we were teenagers prompt no reaction at all now that we are adults. In Buddhist practice, we work to expand the range of life experiences in which we are free.

These two forms of equanimity, the one that comes from the power of observation, and the one that comes from inner balance, come together in mindfulness practice. As mindfulness becomes stronger, so does our equanimity. We see with greater independence and freedom. And, at the same time, equanimity becomes an inner strength that keeps us balanced in middle of all that is.

Peace to both of you
mudra

mudra

07-24-2009, 10:54 PM

http://fc03.deviantart.com/fs43/i/2009/140/c/b/the_song_of_Hiawatha_by_mordachai71.jpg

Friends ,

I'll be away for a week starting this sunday to attend the nexus meditation in the UK.
Until my return I invite you to bring this place back to peace.
Quiet surroundings and good will will unable people to get on further
with their work.

Be kind to each other.

Namaste
mudra

WinterWolf

07-24-2009, 10:58 PM

I have not made any personal
attacks against you. My Comments ya on Darwinism, fearmongering,etc were just that. Comments. From your previous posts above what you have been speaking about did sound like Darwinism. ( Damn. Precious was supposed to be previous. typing on one's phone sucks at times. I have updated precious to previous).

A personsal attack would be me calling you for example a dumb idiot or
something.

I don't have time to address everything as I am at work.

Exposing my mask? What mask? I pose a bunch of questions and your replies are pretty much all alike.

My Wow to higher IQ was my amazement that you even brought Intelligence and religion in this. I am still shaking my head at that.

I'm not surprised at being openly attacked now. Ask enough irritating questions about what is going on and you get attacked.

I admire your determination to make me look bad. Good on you sport.

Gotta love it as now I am the fear mongerer. My co-workers are looking at me funny as I am laughing so hard.

Read some of the PDF stuff. I thought it was interesting.

Nannying people? Nah. Just shining a bug spotlight on things to see what is scurrying around. People can make their own informed choices from te resultant discourse. What I am doing is to generate discourse whether you like what is being asked.

Follow me trance like huh? I'd tell you to get lost. I don't need or want anyone to follow me around.

Matching my aggressiveness? Wow I didn't know I was being aggressive. Are you just a tad sensitive and touchy?

Biting rock? Herding sheep? Mmkay. If you say so.

Just how many times do you want me to say all I am doing is creating discourse and to present a dissenting view?

If all you have are yes people telling you what you want to hear, you leave yourself open to problems later if you do.

Lone wolf. Me? Laughable.

Do go hi five your buddies and pat yourself on the back as if you won something.

I didn't know I had a mask to expose. Damn. I better go hide and cower in the corner now.

Backing down? No just disgusted by the same rhetoric over and over and over again. I don't see the point in continuing.

Winter Wolf

Wow. So now I am living in my own world? Do you resort to personal attacks when you can't think of anything better to say?

No, WinterWolf, I resort at personal attackes as much as you did.
Did you already forget the qulificatives of "darwinist", "hysteric" and "fear mongering"? Just look tree posts upstairs, in your comments. Seem very easy forgeting when is about you!

Talking to higher IQ people. Wow.

Look even you don't consider myself as higher IQ, is OK, it is only 131 on Tickle's IQ test, yes, not seems matching the reality as long as I'm answering you. You guessed, I'm sure, with your top IQ, that I'm continuing to answer just for the respect I have for this forum and for the people here you are not getting tired to mock and offend.

I laughed so hard at this entire post that I almost snorted my orange juice while I was drinking it and reading this.

It is your business that you laughed so hard, is good for the health, but anyway you didn't share with us what's your reasons for such laugh, as much as all discussion before you get with the boots in, seems very constructive and serious. No fun there. You just started with warnings, take care, so on so.. like people here are 5 years old and need a nanny to tell them how to behave. Not only that, but the people trying to contribute something, you make them indirectly, fear mongers and hysterics. I'm wondering what should we do, just you not laugh? Maybe to devour fascinated and in trance-like, your words of wisdom? Would then you more appreciated us? Or maybe then you would have been laugh snorting a barrel of orange juice, not only a glass, as you say. As a survival advice for you: when you read avalon forum, refrain from drinking liquids, seems very dangerous for your health :mfr_lol:

I have dealt with you with respect and you attack me. That's really good of you. I should give you a gold star.

Your comment on you are all far from the Jim Jones fall out right now. So are you saying there is potential for it?

Have you even read anything about Jonestown and the Agricultural Project? It all started out well and then descended into madness.

The respect you are talking about, from your word seems a vesuvius, but when you look in your posts, is very subtle to the point of not be detected; at least with our brains of low IQ, which you laugh at. This issue with Jonestown and with religious sects, seems far fetched for me to bring in discussion alegedly of what we have been spoken up to now, I think that you brought just you be able to fear mongering and intimidate more sensible persons here. This is the only reason you brought that subject! Seems you weren't interested in the topic per se. Be truthful with us and tell if you even have the curiosity to open the pdf with the visual chart of the Radiant Zones? If someone asks me, I would tell him, you didn't. Sorry if I'm wrong, but from what you said up to now, for me, didn't seemed has the slightest relation with topic, nicely brought by Mudra, wish to thank with this occasion.

I speak of caution for anyone who decides to join any community with the greatest of intentions.

Here's the nanny pitch again!:shocked:

It isn't for me to decide for the viewers. All I am doing is putting in dissenting views to try and get total transparency on the Radiant Zone.

From your post, seem contrary with your affirmation, seems you want to decide. What to follow, what not worth follow; what is of good value, what is theoretical and so on...If your dissenting views relate with posting people's IQ, and people bilk others money, maybe you are right. When is about Radiant Zone, I didn't remain with some idea from you.

I am done with this whole debacle. You insult my intelligence and me with thus rhetoric.

Me too. Seems that when you see someone is matching your agresivity and is not intimidate easily, you decide to stop the fight and snickely attack somother time, when the ocassion is right. I'm sure you will say no, to that!:roll1::roll1:

Honestly I do not think you even know what I am about or am doing. I don't even know why I even bothered to lower my spiritual energy to match most on the board for...

Great, how yourself get the mask off from your face. Up to here you were nannying us, supposedly because of care for us, the poor people, maybe sheeple, you consider us, almost be hoarded by a virtual Avalonic Jim Jones, or a Koresh Lider Maximo, but now that you see you bite on rock, you back off.

The Mods can feel free to ban me if they like. Then again those who are following this thread will see that anyone playing devil's advocate or simply wishing to present a different view for fact finding will just be punished.

I think that as long this is the opinion of people here and of forum, they not banning you nor anyone else at least we maintain a decent tone, even we criticize some ideas, behavior or sometime peoples. Why, because we are not perfect beings and we have our pride, ego, selfishness, or instinct of survival. But this with moderation. Thank you for your feedback, really I appreciate even is more criticism in it, because there wouldn't be good, without existence of evil (not related with our discussion here)

Winter Wolf in service to the Creator.

I will end also this debate, because didn't advance the RZ issues, but talking too much to/about wolves here in the thread, I'm afraid not ending as a Lone Wolf!:sneaky2:

[/COLOR]

Agree with you for the saying, but here it was not the case, anybody leading anybody. We are all mature, well seasoned people, with our heads on our shoulders and I didn't feel somebody lead other to something, though a guidance should be in place, just for not loosing the final aim. Which I feel we start to loose. Therefore I kindly ask people start contributing, first to create the guiding lines of what we need to cover and then flesh it out with proper information rather than open philosophical dilemmas which were not solved for thousands of years before us, by even brighter beings that may have been existed up to now.

What do you say people?[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

artvision

07-24-2009, 11:00 PM

Many words of wisdom and deep enlightment and tranquility of the soul.
We need also achive that and focus to our aim here, we start talked about.
Really I wouldn't burn so hot, if I wouldn't be so interested in subject.

So, from my side, I finish the argument with wolves here, because we can achieve nothing trough disarmony and imbalance, you are right.

We need a wisdom a la grandma, love and knowledge and knowing that everything will end in a positive way.

You know Mudra, if we were able to live like Anastasia, in operfect harmony with nature and God, if we wouldn't forget this connection of love, this survival, Radiant zones, would have been totally redundant, from the first place.

All the best to you all!

Artvision _Winterwolf

Beyond polemic there is always another solution .One that stands from higher being and that is grounded in your heart.
Cool off the heat and find that third way of apprehending things.

Equanimity

adapted from a talk by Gil Fronsdal, May 29th, 2004

Equanimity is one of the most sublime emotions of Buddhist practice. It is the ground for wisdom and freedom and the protector of compassion and love. While some may think of equanimity as dry neutrality or cool aloofness, mature equanimity produces a radiance and warmth of being. The Buddha described a mind filled with equanimity as "abundant, exalted, immeasurable, without hostility and without ill-will."

The English word "equanimity" translates two separate Pali words used by the Buddha. Each represents a different aspect of equanimity.

The most common Pali word translated as "equanimity" is upekkha, meaning "to look over." It refers to the equanimity that arises from the power of observation, the ability to see without being caught by what we see. When well-developed, such power gives rise to a great sense of peace.

Upekkha can also refer to the ease that comes from seeing a bigger picture. Colloquially, in India the word was sometimes used to mean "to see with patience." We might understand this as "seeing with understanding." For example, when we know not to take offensive words personally, we are less likely to react to what was said. Instead, we remain at ease or equanimous. This form of equanimity is sometimes compared to grandmotherly love. The grandmother clearly loves her grandchildren but, thanks to her experience with her own children, is less likely to be caught up in the drama of her grandchildren's lives.

The second word often translated as equanimity is tatramajjhattata, a compound made of simple Pali words. Tatra, meaning "there," sometimes refers to "all these things." Majjha means "middle," and tata means "to stand or to pose." Put together, the word becomes "to stand in the middle of all this." As a form of equanimity, "being in the middle" refers to balance, to remaining centered in the middle of whatever is happening. This balance comes from inner strength or stability. The strong presence of inner calm, well-being, confidence, vitality, or integrity can keep us upright, like a ballast keeps a ship upright in strong winds. As inner strength develops, equanimity follows.

Equanimity is a protection from the "eight worldly winds": praise and blame, success and failure, pleasure and pain, fame and disrepute. Becoming attached to or excessively elated with success, praise, fame or pleasure can be a set-up for suffering when the winds of life change direction. For example, success can be wonderful, but if it leads to arrogance, we have more to lose in future challenges. Becoming personally invested in praise can tend toward conceit. Identifying with failure, we may feel incompetent or inadequate. Reacting to pain, we may become discouraged. If we understand or feel that our sense of inner well-being is independent of the eight winds, we are more likely to remain on an even keel in their midst.

One approach to developing equanimity is to cultivate the qualities of mind that support it. Seven mental qualities support the development of equanimity.

The first is virtue or integrity. When we live and act with integrity, we feel confident about our actions and words, which results in the equanimity of blamelessness. The ancient Buddhist texts speak of being able to go into any assembly of people and feel blameless.

The second support for equanimity is the sense of assurance that comes from faith. While any kind of faith can provide equanimity, faith grounded in wisdom is especially powerful. The Pali word for faith, saddha, is also translated as conviction or confidence. If we have confidence, for example, in our ability to engage in a spiritual practice, then we are more likely to meet its challenges with equanimity.

The third support is a well-developed mind. Much as we might develop physical strength, balance, and stability of the body in a gym, so too can we develop strength, balance and stability of the mind. This is done through practices that cultivate calm, concentration and mindfulness. When the mind is calm, we are less likely to be blown about by the worldly winds.

The fourth support is a sense of well-being. We do not need to leave well-being to chance. In Buddhism, it is considered appropriate and helpful to cultivate and enhance our well-being. We often overlook the well-being that is easily available in daily life. Even taking time to enjoy one's tea or the sunset can be a training in well-being.

The fifth support for equanimity is understanding or wisdom. Wisdom is an important factor in learning to have an accepting awareness, to be present for whatever is happening without the mind or heart contracting or resisting. Wisdom can teach us to separate people's actions from who they are. We can agree or disagree with their actions, but remain balanced in our relationship with them. We can also understand that our own thoughts and impulses are the result of impersonal conditions. By not taking them so personally, we are more likely to stay at ease with their arising.

Another way wisdom supports equanimity is in understanding that people are responsible for their own decisions, which helps us to find equanimity in the face of other people's suffering. We can wish the best for them, but we avoid being buffeted by a false sense of responsibility for their well-being.

One of the most powerful ways to use wisdom to facilitate equanimity is to be mindful of when equanimity is absent. Honest awareness of what makes us imbalanced helps us to learn how to find balance.

The sixth support is insight, a deep seeing into the nature of things as they are. One of the primary insights is the nature of impermanence. In the deepest forms of this insight, we see that things change so quickly that we can't hold onto anything, and eventually the mind lets go of clinging. Letting go brings equanimity; the greater the letting go, the deeper the equanimity.

The final support is freedom, which comes as we begin to let go of our reactive tendencies. We can get a taste of what this means by noticing areas in which we were once reactive but are no longer. For example, some issues that upset us when we were teenagers prompt no reaction at all now that we are adults. In Buddhist practice, we work to expand the range of life experiences in which we are free.

These two forms of equanimity, the one that comes from the power of observation, and the one that comes from inner balance, come together in mindfulness practice. As mindfulness becomes stronger, so does our equanimity. We see with greater independence and freedom. And, at the same time, equanimity becomes an inner strength that keeps us balanced in middle of all that is.

Peace to both of you
mudra

artvision

07-24-2009, 11:11 PM

I have not made any personal
attacks against you. My Comments ya on Darwinism, fearmongering,etc were just that. Comments. From your precious posts above what you have been speaking about did sound like Darwinism.

A peronsal attack would be me calling you for example a dumb idiot or
something.

I don't have time to address everything as I am at work.

Exposing my mask? What mask? I pose a bunch of questions and your replies are pretty much all alike.

My Wow to higher IQ was m amazement that you even brought Intelligence and religion in this. I am still shaking my head at that.

I'm not surprised at being openly attacked now. Ask enough irritating questions about what is going on and you get attacked.

I admire your determination to make me look bad. Good on you sport.

Gotta love it as now I am the fear mongerer. My co-workers are looking at me funny as I am laughing so hard.

Read some of the PDF stuff. I thought it was interesting.

Nannying people? Nah. Just shining a bug spotlight on thngs to see what is scurrying around. People can make their own informed choices from te resultant discourse. What I am doing is to generate discourse whether you like what is being asked.

Follow me trance like huh? I'd tell you to get lost. I don't need or want anyone to follow me around.

Matching my agressiveness? Wow I didn't know I was being agressiveness. Are you just a tad sensitive and touchy?

Biting rock? Herding sheep? Mmkay. If you say so.

Just how many times do you want me to say all I am doing is creatng discourse and to present a dissenting view?

If all you have are yes people telling you what you want to hear, you leave yourself open to problems later if you do.

Lone wolf. Me? Laughable.

Do go hi five your buddies and pat yourself on the back as if you won something.

I didn't know I had a mask to expose. Damn. I better go hide and cower in the corner now.

Backing down? No just disgusted by the same rhetoric over and over and over again. I don't see the point in continuing.

Winter Wolf

Look Winterwolf, I didn't reffer to you, I said that by debating so much with you, i will be the black sheep, so in other words the Lone Wolf, just because people tend to put distance between them and fight-full people, the Lone Wolf was not about you!

Is ok you laugh about, no problem we need to laugh a bit, because life is very tense for us...

I didn't want attack you or anything, maybe I didn't quite understand your words entirely and yes you are right I'm touchy lately, sorry for that also my wife is complaining sometime.

Let's forget this nonsense and if you read what I wrote and find interesting, well, I will try to make it as an outliner, in text form. I do not want to insist, but because I saw here people speaking about meditation, I tried to come into help, you know, you can put these maps on a paper and mediate on it.

Sorry it was maybe silly from my side, as I should bring the normal text form for information. I'm working on that and after finishing I put here on this thread.

Wish you all the best and I told you that I respect people have no same ideas as me. If everybody would have same ideas, from where to come evolution? Right?

All the best for you!

mudra

07-24-2009, 11:11 PM

YouTube - Pema Chodron "Troublemakers"

Enjoy :)

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-24-2009, 11:24 PM

Thank you Artvision ,

You are a good man . I appreciate the good will you are showing.
And I do feel the heartfelt passion that guides you on your path.
I know TtC and Northern are working on some drafts and outlines too.
When they are ready they will post it here as well.
All you come up with is welcome .
Keep up the good work :)

Loving kindness
mudra

artvision

07-25-2009, 01:00 AM

Northern Boy

07-25-2009, 03:11 AM

Which of the fleas owns the dog? Which of the leaves owns the tree? If there can be such a thing as ownership, does not the grass have first claim to the land? Or cannot the trees make the same claims? The secret of possession is this, when you make a claim of possession.. that which is claimed to be the possession is not the possessed, that distinction lies with the owner.

BROOK

07-25-2009, 04:52 AM

Since you wanted to link this thread with the proposition thread...I had a response...here it is

This is in answer to this statement:

i agree with jonathon and judyknot, i myself am an indigo, not that makes much a difference, but many of you are judging him in a very defensive position. indigos are generally misunderstood. i don't care what age he is, it's the soul age that counts.

Brook, shame on you, you're putting your own dirt out there. you are afraid and feel hurt so you lash out.

i find his proposition refreshing. he's offering a solution and CREATING something positive. what are you doing brook?

I was in meetings all day at work, then checked my email...full of "you need to sign on and see this"..so I did.

After over 1500 posts to this forum, this is all I'm going to be remembered for?

I would hope I would be remembered for threads like these...

The gentle art of Blessing
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15327

Healing with Love
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14431

Everything Moon
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14739

Can we create a Miracle
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14117

Who am I
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13805

And for appreciation to the Mods out there
There's no Place like home
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13907

And all I'm going to be judged for is the stupid thread?

This is what you are all going to remember me for?

Well, to put some closure to where I stand, and the comments and judgement made about me ...

I have always been a fighter for the injustice....and when I see something that I feel is wrong, I'm going to state my feelings....got that from my mother...bless her soul.
Where this thread stands..I felt I saw something very wrong..and I still do.
Here you have an Indigo boy who cannot speak for himself..at this point I still do not see one very important part that needs to be addressed....

Ttc...What is your vision of these communities you are building? Very simple....

Dolphin...you use the excuse that "Indigos are generally misunderstood. i don't care what age he is, it's the soul age that counts."

certainly with all of that soul age ...he has learned to speak for himself, instead of having Mudra and a few others speak for him.

And with that soul age he has learned some wisdom to be able to expel the doubt that is racing through the minds of many here.

If not so be it.....but I will ask you all this.....

Here is a 20 year old Indigo..with a vision at the age of 12, who has decided to build radient zones....and has personally told me about 4 days ago that he does not believe there will be a world catastrophe, and does not believe there is a NWO.

With that in mind..I again ask the question...what is the vision here? Why build these communities?....and why is every body so intent on going to a radient zone...if for not that very purpose?

If we are just starting communities for the purpose of Commune...then so be it...state that purpose...but I think that the reason George Green, Kerry Cassedy, And Bill Ryan have decided these things are relevant, are because of the impending possible need for them in case the SHTF....and for many I think this is a good idea....wow did I say that?

Yes I did say that...It's a good idea. Imagine that.

However...there is too much wrong here, and I will say it again...
There is too much wrong here.

I can only imagine things, like people investing their hard earned labor...the "less then fortunate"... developing all of this land, building all of these buildings, and shelters..only to have the land sold out from under them, and being told to move along...with a severance pay....Not the utopia I believe they had their dream pinned on...and certainly not what they would expect...but this is only one question I had that did not get satisfactorily answered. There are many other questions that did not get answered.

These are the questions that I would advise anyone investing money into, or their blood sweat and tears into, before getting involved.

That being said....about this thread....Dolphin...What dirty laundry are you speaking about?

The only dirty laundry I have is in the hamper upstairs. If you are speaking about the PM's that ttc posted, and the mods asked me if I wanted removed, and said no, and he did not put the parts where he was being rather telling...well, here is what you are seeing...

After being asked to check out this guy and his "proposition"...I applied..and I made it sound like I was well off but would leave it for Utopia.

What you saw there was me fishing for information...plain and simple..looking for answers ...no dirty laundry there Dolphin. Not even a picture of what I am...just leading a horse to water is all.
There are several other scenarios I can come up with that would fit this proposition, but I think you are all adults, and Indigo, enlightened Lightworkers or not...just take heed.

As far as ttc goes...He sent me quite a nice message 4 days ago when he saw I was leaving....and left a quote from Aleister Crowley..."Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." not before telling me, "I doubt very much that there will be a global cataclysm or a NWO, but that is what people believe. I cannot create in someone else's reality."
It was actually very SWEET...but left me with even more questions...again why build these radient zones if he does not believe that these things will come to pass?

In your comment Dolphin..you say...I'm afraid and feeling hurt.....first of all,

The only hurt I have had on this thread so far is from you...the judgement of me after all of the posts I have contributed to this forum and this is your judgement of me?
Hurt from ttc...not...I can only bless him and hope he makes the right choices and follows a path, one that will teach him some of that "soul wisdom" you speak of, so he can actually treat people with some respect...and If you had read the thread...,I was not the only one who checked out his proposition and got a very bad vibe, and rude words. And I am not the only one that has questions..

I am the one that stood toe to toe with him though, and fought to get the truth...so is that the the fear you speak of?

I do not fear ttc, I do not even fear death...I actually welcome it..I cannot wait to go home again...this 3D is great, and I cherish it very much, but I, who do not label my self anything other then human, have a knowing....a knowing that the real deal is out there, and this is only a small part of the whole.

Do I want to go to radient zone.....No

I am here for one purpose only...to create, and I feel I have a mission to be here when the SHTF, and I do believe it will, and be there for the ones that are in need. I will not go to a radient zone..I will stay and help all those I can...I will be there for the disabled, the blind, the mentally handicapped...because this is part of my mission..I have worked with all I speak, and even though that is not the the work I do at the present, this is my mission...to gently guide those in need to help them awaken. To be with the ones that are lost, and don't know about radient zones.

I am not afraid to stand up to the darkness, and shine the light of truth.

I am not afraid if the State of California goes in the ocean...because it is not a place I have not been before.
I would gladly welcome the journey home, to start it all over again.

To all of you who think this thread is all I have contributed...I'm truly sorry for that..but I have always stood up for what I thought was right. In this thread I said what I thought..forgive me if speaking my mind was something that you find unacceptable...but I will always do it, and continue to do it for the rest of my days is this 3D existence.

With love and light I bid you Blessings.

Northern Boy

07-25-2009, 05:18 AM

good reply lets ask ourselves why would someone Quote this man Aleister Crowley ? I`m sure it isn`t for his saintly Qualities

artvision

07-25-2009, 08:00 AM

Dears,

I'm new between you, a novice.

Dears, look I started to read latest posts here and I thought my bookmark link is wrong, guiding to other thread, another thread different at all than what was at beginning.

Then I looked in the upper page and I read:

Re: Radiant zones and communities building..where are we up to ?

These things from lately, have nothing to do with what we are suppose doing here, according with the title; sorry my debate going nowhere with WinterWolf, :sorry: seems triggered other people old resentments go out to surface, I do not know...

Let's try to burry the hatchet of war and try use that formidble energy not fighting each other, but constructing for each other. :gathering:

I WROTE THAT, NOT BECAUSE I PULING EARS SOMEBODY (far from me that thought, I'm not in that moderator position here and never liked that pulling ears of someone) BUT I FEEL RESPONSIBLE AFTER I CARRIED OUT THAT RECKLESS DEBATE.

... and one of the B's from my signature is making to me sneaky eye signs ... that B from Brains...

__________________
SURVIVAL=5B's
Belief, Brains:sneaky2:, Beans, Bullets, Band-Aids

Oliver

07-25-2009, 09:16 AM

Good. Now we are inpatiently expecting the TtC and Northern Boy proposals and drafts, so we can analyze and compare all of the proposals given so far. If there are common elements, we could start to establish them as recommendation patterns, untill we get some whole possible structure of the RZ community.

Respect

Oliver

07-25-2009, 09:58 AM

Bless you, Brook!

mudra

07-25-2009, 10:32 AM

Since you wanted to link this thread with the proposition thread...I had a response...here it is

Brook I don't see the reason you are posting this here.
This thread is not linked to the " proposition " thread.
Your post in not relevant here .

Loving kindness
mudra

mudra

07-25-2009, 10:35 AM

Oliver

07-25-2009, 10:45 AM

Yes. Sorry.

mudra

07-25-2009, 11:06 AM

A Message from the Crows

March 9, 2009

This morning, a crow flew by and landed in the apple tree out back. I felt it was a sign. As I was leaving the house heading to the chapel, several crows were having what I call “caw-versations” in the trees around the house. I sensed this was a sign. I was standing on the platform waiting for the metro train, when a crow landed on the station sign about 50 feet away. I knew this was a sign…

Arriving at the Elder’s Cabin, I sat on the front porch. Sitting. Sensing. Listening. Waiting. Smiling. The Elder’s came out of the cabin and sat with me on the front porch. From behind me, one of them said, “You got our message, we see.” I laughed, “Crows from you are the equivalent of e-mails, instant messages and texting. Yes, I got the message.” We all laughed.

The Elder of Air asked, “What do crows symbolize for you?” I sat, looking out into the land, listening. “Ancestors; flying into the unknown, yet knowing my way; and fearless, yet cautious.” Those words seem to flow from my mouth, effortlessly. The Elder of Earth, smirking, said, “So Crowwman [this name given to me years ago by one of my teachers], what does the crow tell you about you in this moment?” I replied, “Knowing and remembering my connection with the ancestors as I fly into the unknown, yet knowing my way, being fearless yet cautious.” I felt a sense of power and strength as I spoke those words. Fearless, yet cautious…I can see that in myself…sometimes. I continued sitting on the porch, being in company with the Elders.

“You are embarking on a new journey, a whole new world, into the unknown with a knowing. And it feels, as you describe it, weighty. What you are experiencing, honor that,” from the Elder of Water. “Honor it. Respect it. Honor you.”

The Elder of Earth spoke, “As you climb the mountain, you cannot see the mountain in its entirety. You only see that part that is around you. Even when you reach the top, you still cannot see the fullness of the mountain. Only when you are away from the mountain, a distance away, only then can you appreciate the whole experience. Right now you are climbing the mountain and seeing only what is around you. That is okay. Honor where you are now.”

The Elder of Air said, “Young old man, as I connect to your heart, I do not sense fear of what is being asked of you. I do not sense fear at all. You need to connect to your heart and allow that energy to guide you. And remember that she guided you to breathe in ‘the light’ into your heart. Now allow the light to feed your spirit.”

“Young old man, be well, be gentle and be in the knowing of love,” said the Elder of Earth.

All of them went back into the cabin. I stayed on the front porch. I wanted to breathe in the mountain air, take in the scenery and ingest the energy, wisdom and love they shared.

This evening, I walked home and saw two crows sitting in the big tree in the backyard. I smiled a “thank you” smile to the Elders.

http://www.intent.com/blog/2009/03/09/conversations-elders-message-crows

rhythm

07-25-2009, 11:15 AM

When we take things

pesonaly :mad3:

there is usualy suffering

and allways

lessons being learnt...

be free

and react not

learn and grow

in service to the one

forget about yourself ..

and remember ...

do we need to be right

respect and listen

agree to disagree

win and lose ?

right and wrong ?

put a little love in your heart :wub2:..

one love ....

mudra

07-25-2009, 11:30 AM

Only in love are unity and duality not in conflict.

~ Rabindranath Tagore

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15149

Loving kindness

mudra

mudra

07-25-2009, 11:32 AM

Oliver

07-25-2009, 11:41 AM

Rhythm:"... be free and react not..."

My deep bow to your Wisdom and Love, Rhythm.

mudra

07-25-2009, 04:18 PM

We are all longing to go home to some place we have never been — a place half-remembered and half-envisioned we can only catch glimpses of from time to time. Community. Somewhere, there are people to whom we can speak with passion without having the words catch in our throats. Somewhere a circle of hands will open to receive us, eyes will light up as we enter, voices will celebrate with us whenever we come into our own power. Community means strength that joins our strength to do the work that needs to be done. Arms to hold us when we falter. A circle of healing. A circle of friends. Someplace where we can be free.

Starhawk

Loving kindness
mudra

BROOK

07-25-2009, 06:23 PM

Brook I don't see the reason you are posting this here.
This thread is not linked to the " proposition " thread.
Your post in not relevant here .

Loving kindness
mudra

This is why Mudra...

No not at all dear..
But TtC is now with us on that thread I opened.
This will allow a wider public to be informed of where
we are up to as regard communities.
Hopefully he can have a new chance to put his proposition across.
He is a fine man.Has a lot to offer and really deserves
to be listened to .

Loving kindness
mudra

you have put your stamp of approval on this Indigo boy who cannot speak for himself...but wants people to trust in him without giving the one simple thing we all want to hear from him....

If he does not believe in the things we are all worried might come about..or a NWO....again I have to ask and keep having to ask..but get no answer...and I believe he does need to speak for himself...

tTc...what is your vision for this you seek to build?

Northern Boy

07-25-2009, 06:31 PM

BROOK

07-25-2009, 06:31 PM

Bless you, Brook!

Thank you Oliver..and may your endevor of finding and building a radient zone serve you well....

It is of the opinion I do not believe that radient zones should be built...on the contrary....I just live in a world where I have seen people of good hearts, get burned very badly.

If a radient zone is what you are seeking..may your journey be safe...and you follow the path of light and love.

BROOK

07-25-2009, 07:02 PM

I know I may have thrown some of you off with the original proposition, but my offer still stands. Some of the greenhouses are nearing completion on one of the properties. Electrical is in final construction stages (as the testing was successful) to begin self-sustaining community power.

I will be setting up safe zones in many other states including KY, OH, GA, WA, ID, CO, AB, BC, ON, and the original one in MT. There will be one in Argentina and Brazil as well, come the semi-near future. I will also be buying houses across the globe as a network of safe houses for travelers to lodge at while abroad.

I will say one thing: do not rush your plans as insecurity can be disastrous. One weak link in the chain can mean life or death.

As to the urgency of the matter of Life and death..after you have told me that you do not believe that there will be and impending catastrophy ...can you tell me why the need for safe houses? I'm getting a mixed message from you ttc. Why the necessity for "safe zones" in your message?

I know why others have the need for them...but you have personally told me that you do not believe anything of the sort will happen.

So again I ask you..what is your vision

artvision

07-25-2009, 07:18 PM

Tried to paste document, but an error happened!

Northern Boy

07-25-2009, 07:23 PM

it was there for an instant now gone

mudra

07-25-2009, 07:47 PM

This is why Mudra...

No not at all dear..
But TtC is now with us on that thread I opened.
This will allow a wider public to be informed of where
we are up to as regard communities.
Hopefully he can have a new chance to put his proposition across.
He is a fine man.Has a lot to offer and really deserves
to be listened to .

Loving kindness
mudra

I understand now Brook. Thank you for clarification.

TtC is here on this thread on the same grounds as are all other persons working at the moment at building communities as Gio, Carmen, Artvision, NorthernSanctuary, wormhole...etc..

[/quote]you have put your stamp of approval on this Indigo boy who cannot speak for himself...but wants people to trust in him without giving the one simple thing we all want to hear from him....[/quote]

I have spoken to TtC two times in life conversations. He clearly laid out the vision he has of the communities he wants to build. He answered to my questions without any problem. I find him a decent young man that knows where he goes , has given it deep thought and has the assets to stand for his vision. I don't see any reason he should'nt be given a chance to speak as all others already here and the future ones to come.

I asked him to make a statement of his vision and to post it here. This should be done shortly so all know what it is about. I totally agree with you Brook that this is an important step and must be made for the purpose of clarity and to close the door to speculations.
He will then and is already answering genuine questions that people interested may have through life conversations. I think this is decent enough .

If he does not believe in the things we are all worried might come about..or a NWO....again I have to ask and keep having to ask..but get no answer...and I believe he does need to speak for himself...

I don't think we are " all " worried about what might come as cataclysms or NWO. I do understand those that are but I personnally am not afraid and do not hold any pessimistic visions .As you say these are " might come " . I believe it's just the same for him. He is just looking to a better way of life for all and his proposal stands along these guide lines.

I believe it would be in the interest of all that the two of you talk and clear whatever got you untangled. I know your Brook .I know all you have done in Avalon. There is nothing you have to prove or defend there.The light you brought stands on its own.
My personnal feelings are that the position you have today as regard TtC might be based on profound misunderstanding. He has responsability in the course it took as you have your own.

Also lays in both your hands the fact that you can bring it to a higher and more constructive echelon .
There is no happiness to be find in conflict but great joy comes when love and understanding are applied to matters .
If we want to build a better future , a new world we have to start this between each other.It can only be positive to everyone .

Would you be willing to do so ?

Loving kindness
mudra

BROOK

07-25-2009, 08:23 PM

I don't think we are " all " worried about what might come as cataclysms or NWO. I do understand those that are but I personnally am not afraid and do not hold any pessimistic visions .As you say these are " might come " . I believe it's just the same for him. He is just looking to a better way of life for all and his proposal stands along these guide lines.

I agree Mudra...however..a mixed message from TtC tells me that the use of the word "safe zones" tells one thing as he as stated in the above post...

I will be setting up safe zones in many other states including KY, OH, GA, WA, ID, CO, AB, BC, ON, and the original one in MT. There will be one in Argentina and Brazil as well, come the semi-near future. I will also be buying houses across the globe as a network of safe houses for travelers to lodge at while abroad.

I will say one thing: do not rush your plans as insecurity can be disastrous. One weak link in the chain can mean life or death.

And he has again expressed something quite different to me.
The Original one in Montana..is of importance..as that was found to be the largest oil find in North America...and what better way to get the drilling started, but to develope the roads, provide housing to the drillers, and set things up..this was my first thought when I came across this..but it is only speculation on my part...and once the set up is finished...out ya go..this is my worry and caution.

However I know this is not the intention of all of the people involved in setting up radient zones..and their intention is honorable. When asked for spicifics...the questions were vague and ambiguous at most...and the questions still exist today.

Would you be willing to do so ?

Certainly...as long as the questions are actually answered. I won't be swayed by statements such as "I cannot create in someone else's reality"...that is not an answer...you ask a queston..you should get an answer...if the answer does not make sense, clarify it make it clear the intent ...

So I am waiting ...to hear of this vision...and dialogue of a respectable manner will insue...No games..just plain talk. Right here, right now...not in some off base place, but for everyone here to see, so their unanswered questions can be answered as well

mudra

07-25-2009, 10:30 PM

Thank you Brook .
I trust the matter will clear up.
All it takes is good will from all parties.

Let's keep the focus on love, respect and understanding.

Loving kindness
mudra

artvision

07-25-2009, 11:09 PM

Here is the suggested outline for the Radiant Zone Guide. Feel free to suggest more things, or to delete from that outline. I would kindly like when suggesting something, please specify where you want to add:.

Always say in reference to complete number. Example:
Reference to 1.2.12 I do want to add: The signs for SHTF are:....." (just as an example how to refer to different paragraphs)

Awaiting your feedbacks!

Artvision
================================================== ==========================================

RADIANT ZONE GUIDE

INTRODUCTORY WORD

Here is a guide outliner based on different books and documents read.

This doc is desired to be just as an outliner, meaning a collection of important issues that should not be overlooked when someone decide to create a Radiant Zone, that is a place of relative safety when SHTF, in our volatile world we live in.

What should be then of most value that a collection of proven be working advices, of how to organize and make that retreat without give too much thought when is pressure of world coming apart. Of course one can read things on internet, but when the time is pressing, you need put in pace a lot of things, systems, etc. With our collection at hand, we want to believe, you will find some pertinent answers.

This document is hosted on the Avalon Forum, where the concept of Radiant Zones emerged, or at least started being documented. Our desire is all the people can read, comment and contribute to it. Thus, we need people with some experience in these related disciplines, covered here, to give us a feedback, offer information, or to correct issues.

Everything is open to debates and the final goal will be, to create "The Radiant Zones Guide", such as a set of directory lines, if somebody will follow up, will be in a safe side when a major SHTF scenario will hit.

We need to prune first this draft outliner, then we will flesh up each chapter and subchapter with information. Please, that everything you are stating, you must to offer the reason, or the rationale for that, just be convincing even for non seasoned people in that matters.

Will be a difficult and painful job, but the outcome that is a helper for people in case of need, will be much worthing the effort, also I want to start our work with the words of God, which is recommendable to do in any initiative of ours:

"Prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself; but the simple pass on, and are punished. "[Proverbs 27:12]

All the best!
Artvision
__________________
SURVIVAL=5B's
Belief, Brains, Beans, Bullets, Band-Aids

1. RATIONALE ABOUT THE RADIANT ZONE

1.1 What Are Radiant Zones
1.1.1 Define the Radiant Zones

1.2 Questions about Radiant Zones
1.2.1 Intrinsic need for safety of humans is the base to start a Radiant Zone
1.2.2 Is the survival instinct good? But is moral? Is intrinsic coded in the genetics of every living beings. How can humans evolve from the basic existentialist desire and reach other forms?
1.2.3 We should think as: The concept of continuity of government, COG, survival of the fittest as Darwinist concept?
1.2.4 Or maybe, our survival idea is based on other mentalities rather than pure selfish instinct of survival as we see in government mentality, such Darwinist concepts
1.2.5 The world around us is on a verge of collapse-can we see that
1.2.6 Do we want be staying in affected places of SHTF and be susceptible to massive trauma even death, or we try escape?
1.2.7 Why do I need join with a bunch of other people? Isn't enough if I manage myself to escape for the first wave of the SHTF? Why should I listen and act also in benefit for the others? Why if the decision of other are endangering my personal security?
1.2.8 How we can avoid asking ourselves devastating questions such as above?
1.2.9 How the people you will be with!
1.2.10 Is worth the effort and resources consumption for make a safe Zone?
1.2.11 What if the SHTF never happening?
1.2.12 What are the signs showing a SHTF is approaching or just start to rollout?

1.3 Possible SHTF scenarios
1.3.1 Economic Crash, banks, currency, stock crash
1.3.2 Chemical attack or just damaging a nearby chemical plant
1.3.3 Nuclear threat
1.3.4 Dirty bomb terrorist threat
1.3.5 Devastating meteorological event: tornados, massive storms
1.3.6 Earthquakes
1.3.7 Massive land slides
1.3.8 Eruption of volcanos
1.3.9 Extended famine caused by excessive drought
1.3.10 EMP from sun or man produced
1.3.11 Take over of the government by the underground forces
1.3.12 Psychotronic attack of many important cities and towns of a nation
1.3.13 Chaos created by the imminent landing of ET
1.3.14 Total disruptment of our society by an alien attack
1.3.15 Devastating war
1.3.16 Devastating Pandemics such 1918
1.3.17 Release of biological agents such Staphylococcus aureus, or Necrotizing Fasciitis or a new type of plague of unknown origins, or maybe Bird Flu
1.3.18 Total disruption of International naval transport due to some marine extraterestrial attacking the vessels, leading to a profound lack of goods in many part of the globe
1.3.19 An extraordinary fast and massive cool down of some regions, leading to a total collapse of that region
1.3.20 A meteoritic impact followed by a shower of small meteorites, falling over a large surface of earth
1.3.21 The magnetic poles of Earth heavily shifted by the influence of a nearby passing of a celestial body
1.3.22 Utterly degradation of the human DNA, leading to massive epidemics of cancers and tumors, in a large part of population. Nobody know why, but is feared there is a new type of high energy particle weapon fired form Deep Space.
1.3.23 Destruction of a large surfaces of Terra, in the area heavily exposed to chemtrails where these chemtrails are filtering the light but letting UV passing trough, acting such a focal lens
1.3.24 Major disruption of our society because all the satellites and flying craft are shoot down by some unknown entities
1.3.25 Massive social revolts, riots and upheavals in relation with the current economic crisis, job cuts and overall deterioration of living standard.

1.4 Is worth for me, to engage in a Radiant Zone or not?
1.4.1 PRO's:
1.4.1.1 Possibility of saving your life and the family
1.4.1.2 Good way to met and become friend with like minded persons
1.4.1.3 Lots of things to learn, lots of skills to acquire
1.4.1.4 Living in the nature, with a more ecological prospect than living in city

1.4.2 CON's:
1.4.2.1 Cost, time and emotional implications
1.4.2.2 Maybe family member mock on me calling me a cuckoo!
1.4.2.3 Other can call us fear mongers or hysterics?
1.4.2.4 What if never arrive to the Radiant Zone After SHTF?
1.4.2.5 What if I'm not getting along with the rest of the members after a while when tensions increasing
1.4.2.6 What if governments ban such remote area retreats, on flimsy grounds?

1.5 PEOPLE - consolidating the GROUP
1.5.1 Startup-ers
1.5.2 Members Selection Criteria
1.5.2.1 Good Behaving
1.5.2.2 Similitude
1.5.2.2.1 Same Mindset
1.5.2.2.2 Same Wishes & Desires
1.5.2.2.3 Same religion (or at least non antagonistic!)
1.5.2.3 Skills: to be cover multitude important qualification
1.5.2.3.1 Doctors, Nurses, Dentists
1.5.2.3.2 Militars
1.5.2.3.3 Agriculture and cattle raising
1.5.2.3.4 Mechanics: auto, different issue
1.5.2.3.5 Electricians/Electronists
1.5.2.3.6 Carpenters
1.5.2.3.7 Blacksmits
1.5.2.3.8 Gunsmiths
1.5.2.3.9 IT
1.5.2.3.10 Logistics
1.5.2.3.11 Cooking
1.5.2.3.12 Preserving Foods
1.5.2.3.13 Educators, professors
1.5.2.4 What can that member offer
1.5.2.4.1 Skills
1.5.2.4.2 Knowledge
1.5.2.4.3 Stuff personally accumulated for survival can share
1.5.2.5 Voting in accepting new members
1.5.3 Sharing the responsibilities
1.5.3.1 According with training & skill
1.5.3.2 All should be aware that need to work together and no fuss about
1.5.3.3 All should learn military training, health exercises, bit of crafts, agriculture
1.5.4 People need meet periodically before start construct Radiating Zone, retreat etc

1.6 Searching a proper zone
1.6.1 Factor take i account when selecting a Radiant Zone

1.7 Starting Organizing a retreat
1.7.1 Establish Book of conduit
1.7.1.1 Democratic: 1 person=1 vote
1.7.1.2 example: Native Indians Code of Ethics
1.7.1.3 Amish People
1.7.2 Establish set of procedures: "what to do if, that or that happens"
1.7.3 Establish what scenarios will cover their retreat
1.7.4 Establish what will be their supplies, provisions of food, medical, fuels, etc
1.7.5 Establish their tools, weapons and ammunitions
1.7.5.1 Important rule: Interchangeability: not to many different types of same issue
1.7.5.1.1 By that, parts from one can be replaced to another, also storing a limited number of parts will increase the probability find something when need
1.7.5.1.2 AMMO calibers be easy swappable between guns, pistols, etc
1.7.6 Establish their systems of protection
1.7.7 Establish system of defense
1.7.8 Establish system of communication

2. TO BUG-OUT FROM YOUR HOUSE WHEN SHTF, OR JUST LIVE IN RETREAT, WELL IN ADVANCE?

To Bug-Out from your home that is in the middle of the problem and try to make it hundreds or maybe thousands of KM to arrive in the retreat when the world started already to disintegrate, when roads are infested with non moving car because no gasoline, or just live comfortably to the retreat, in the Radiant ZONE already?
It is an important decison!
But if your life, responsibility are requesting you to live away from the retreat, at least you should keep the most of provisions of food, water, equipment, tools and medicines, at retreat already in the responsibility of a caretaker.
Watch for the signs for the collapsing of society and bug-out immediately is possible.
For doing safely that distance and arriving in one piece at the retreat, you should prepare the vehicle, with food, important documents, valuableas and defensive means. Try not take all house with you. As light go, more sure will arrive retreat after SHTF.
All procedures in places, maps, etc should be prepared in time.

2.1 Dilemma Bug-Out or permanently live in retreat
2.1.1 Bug-out when SHTF
2.1.1.1 Will be Dangerous
2.1.1.2 Difficult to arive to Radiant Zone
2.1.2 Live already in the retreat
2.1.2.1 Seems better option
2.1.2.2 Maybe boring
2.1.2.3 Will get used with the people and accumulate needed skills

2.2 Store stuff in advance in retreat
2.2.1 Because when SHTF limited amounts can be transported
2.2.2 All the food, medicines and hardware should already be stored in RZ
2.2.3 Mostly heavy gear, food provisions, grains
2.2.4 This leads to problems if non live in retreat who will rotate all that food
2.2.5 Better there is already a family or two, look after the retreat, all time

2.3 For Bug-Out well prepared in advance
2.3.1 Watch carefully after signs SHTF is about start; share info within your circle
2.3.1.1 Watch the financial news regularly; Stock composed indices
2.3.1.2 Keep informed from internet
2.3.1.3 Listen in Short waves other countries / continents radio broadcastings
2.3.1.4 Watch any strange movements of people, troops or other changes in the city
2.3.1.5 Keep scnning the frequencies of Police, Firefighters, Hospitals Ambulance System, Sherrif, truck driver communications: everything locally on radio communication in clear
2.3.1.6 Keep a listening on HAM bands, maybe make announcement of perils, etc
2.3.1.7 Watch the sky and any abnormalities
2.3.1.8 Watch carefully of the Meteorological Bulletins for Tornados, Huge Storms
2.3.2 Bug-Out Vehicle
2.3.2.1 Always in pristine technical condition
2.3.2.2 Always with full tank
2.3.2.3 Keep always fuel in canister to cover 3 times distance fto retreat
2.3.2.4 Vehicle should have a survival kit all the time, itself!
2.3.2.5 Most possible to break parts should have been stored in vehicle
2.3.2.6 An diversified tool kits for vehicle
2.3.2.7 Vehicle Technical repair manual
2.3.3 Bug-Out Kit
2.3.3.1 Most important: Maps with all counties in between to retreat-use of communal roads only; be marked on the maps, then maps be plastified after markings
2.3.3.2 Most valuable jewelery
2.3.3.3 Food&Water for all travellers, 3 x times more days than trip to retreat
2.3.3.4 Laptop with all scanned documents and contact list, guides, etc
2.3.3.5 Memory stick with all documents as a backup copy or laptop lost/damage
2.3.3.6 Communication system between members or between cars-talkie walkie
2.3.3.7 Weapons for self protect during travel
2.3.3.8 Diversified Medical kit; do not forget take prescripts meds for chronic
2.3.3.9 Cash: small bills, different currencies, maybe silver/gold coins
2.3.3.10 Credit/debit cards: always use it first if still work, before resort to cash
2.3.3.11 Most Important documents (besides it scanned)
2.3.3.11.1 Printed list with contacts of all relatives, friends, etc
2.3.3.11.2 ID's
2.3.3.11.3 Passports
2.3.3.11.4 Certificates: Birth, Marriage, Deceased, etc
2.3.3.11.5 Contracts: Insurance, etc
2.3.3.11.6 Deeds: Property, land
2.3.3.11.7 Tax related documents (even maybe never needed, never knows)
2.3.4 Keep in touch with all your supporters, relatives, friends
2.3.4.1 Use Phone, Mail for exchanging info during first phases of SHTF
2.3.4.2 When usual comm net are down, use CB/HAM radios
2.3.4.3 When not possible use people going there as messengers

2.4 Procedure should be in place for everything, all should be known and reherased in advance. When SHTF we should work like swiss clock!
2.4.1 Procedures for evacuating house in maxim 1 hour
2.4.2 Procedures to assure and stop before leaving all utilities, gas, electric

3. ORGANIZING RETREAT

Is one of most demanding jobs. Do not ever forget:
"We are creating in the Radiant Zone, a mini-society!"
Expect all the tares from the existing one, to manifest also in the small one. But with some sweeteners! We will join it by good will and we will be surrounded with people with same mentalities, we have been chosen ourselves!
Will be based on the democratic approach, between people with same ideas, mentalities and mindset (otherwise we wouldn't form that community, in the first place) therefore responsible and well wishing people.
When there is time to debate and there are to decide things will affect everybody, then the voting approach will be chosen.
When there is a life/death situation, when there is important the decision taken in an instant, then is the community leader call, to take that decision. Therefore that lader, is very important and should be designated by voting, by the memebers, one of the most trusted, skillful and cold head available from that Radiant Zone group.
Not only leader, but also the new members should be apporved or disapproved by older members
For this activity, someone should keep a log (most probable the, Logistics responsible), where be written down the resolutions made along with most important moments for the community (births, marriages, deaths).

3.1 Voting System - Decision for important matters
3.1.1 Will be used for all important matters
3.1.2 Democratic - 1 person = 1 vote
3.1.3 Election for community leader

3.2 Scheduling Community Life
3.2.1 Tasks
3.2.2 Chores
3.2.3 Day & Night Watch Shifts
3.2.4 Classes
3.2.5 Training

3.3 Religious life for different confessions from group

3.4 Keep Good Morale
3.4.1 Activities as Morale booster
3.4.1.1 Birthdays
3.4.1.2 Religious day celebrations
3.4.1.3 Country day celebration for different ethnics in group

3.5 Day to day Decision taking
3.5.1 Minor Issues
3.5.2 Fast response issues
3.5.3 Life/Death threats and situation need leader assuming responsability

3.6 Delegation of Activities responsible Persons
3.6.1 Job Description
3.6.1.1 Definition of Activity Description & Task Incurred
3.6.1.2 What to do, what responsibilities they have
3.6.2 Logistics responsible - The STOREKEEPER
3.6.2.1 General caretaker for retreat & Storage Facilities
3.6.2.2 Keep a detail Material Log Book registery: what we have, what required, what need to produce, gather, barter, etc
3.6.2.3 He must be able raise alerts when stocks of most important items close to finish
3.6.2.4 At all time he need tell group what is the status for Beans, Bullets and Band-Aids, generally speaking
3.6.3 Security & Defense officer - GI Joe
3.6.3.1 Must be experienced and military trained
3.6.3.2 He must organize the security: of retreat, perimeter and patrolling neighborhoods
3.6.3.3 He must to decide and inform group about possibility of group face and defeat the threat, or asses threat so major that group need abandon
3.6.3.4 He must organize and lead the military training
3.6.4 Health responsible - DOC
3.6.4.1 An doctor or at least a nurse or para medic
3.6.4.2 Should be able satisfactory handle the health problems of the group, child-birth, injuries, poisoning, other accidents
3.6.4.3 Should be able to manage with scarce resource
3.6.4.4 Would be desirable to lean towards traditional medicine (medicine expire or end stock)
3.6.5 Intelligence officer - INTEL GUY
3.6.5.1 His job will be to collect information gathered from communication systems (radio, scanners, following broadcasting), information from patrolling, etc. He make a report of outstanding situation that can lead to a threatening situation for retreat. He is collaborating with security and community leader in finding a solution.
3.6.5.2 All the events from patrolling and different observation from watch shifts, etc will be reported to him. If need immediate reaction, together with security responsible and community leader will decide
3.6.5.3 What the group intelligence try to find? Everything: news from the far world, what did the next rural neighbor happened with his cattle, everything, because everything can lead to threats to the community
3.6.5.4 He must be an bright person, with curiosity, capacity of listening others and extract relevant informations
3.6.6 Agribusiness responsible - FATHER OF THE LAND
3.6.6.1 The person should have been lived at country side for a while, he/she must know the wheelings and dealings of farming, cattle arising
3.6.6.2 He must be able to asses what the group can seed, how much, where and when to seed and when harvest
3.6.6.3 Must have a good knowhow of handling with animal problems
3.6.7 Systems responsible - HANDY MAN
3.6.7.1 Everything that is running in the retreat must kept so.
3.6.7.2 Whatever parts, materials needed he must know to handle or where or who to ask.
3.6.7.3 The perfect handyman
3.6.7.4 A broken toilet, a running sink? No problem, because he will fix
3.6.8 Cooking Responsible - CHEF
3.6.8.1 What people need most after water shelter is food. Good, tasty and with right amount of calories, vitamins, and minerals. Chef, must gracefully must handle that, without too many complains nor intoxications!
3.6.8.2 Must have hands on cooking, also cooking in prmitive condition, mostly with stocked ingredients. Chef must know to combine the dried tasteless stock food, with something fres, to assure the vitamin and minerals for the group
3.6.8.3 Some old 1900 cooking book, a wooden stove which manage in the end to control, would be a start!
3.6.8.4 Also to get a kiss or a hug, at least a cheerful appreciation for tasty food put on the table
3.6.9 Crafts Expert - Master Craftsman
3.6.9.1 Would be advisable have a responsible for knowing many crafts, because many things, including clothing, must be produced by the group
3.6.9.2 The wood carving, making of baskets, etc
3.6.9.3 Leather crafts, for making some clothing, shoes, or moccasins at least?
3.6.9.4 Making ropes and vegetal lashes and ties from surrounding dogbane and similar plants

4. SHELTER

One of the most vital thing for human existence!
People along with their family member and their possesions should be protected
Very important also the construction of the retreat, utilities, area designation, technologies of construction that will be maintained and assured also after the SHTF

4.1 Building Issues
4.1.1 Legalities
4.1.2 Architecture Solutions
4.1.2.1 Constructing Solutions
4.1.2.1.1 Dome
4.1.2.1.2 Normal House
4.1.2.1.3 Group of many Houses
4.1.2.1.4 Condo
4.1.2.2 How the spaces are utilized
4.1.2.2.1 Provisions Storage
4.1.2.2.2 Places for rest
4.1.2.2.3 Bedrooms
4.1.2.2.4 Baths
4.1.2.2.5 Common activity places
4.1.2.2.6 Dedicated activity Places
4.1.2.2.6.1 Clasroom
4.1.2.2.6.2 Radio Equipment Room
4.1.2.2.6.3 Temporary Storage room
4.1.2.2.6.4 Cooking places
4.1.3 Materials to be used
4.1.3.1 Depending on the type of threats RZ should face
4.1.3.2 Ecological - Health
4.1.3.3 Smooth blending with the RZ environment
4.1.3.4 Very Durable
4.1.3.5 No health hazards (asbestos, lead, etc)
4.1.4 Installations
4.1.4.1 Antennas
4.1.4.1.1 Satellite Dish
4.1.4.1.2 Radio & TV antennas
4.1.4.1.3 HAM Radio special antennas
4.1.4.1.4 CB - large coverage antena
4.1.4.2 Electric nstallations
4.1.4.2.1 lighting
4.1.4.2.2 Pumping
4.1.4.2.3 Electric part for heaters, boilers
4.1.4.3 Heating
4.1.4.4 Air filtering and conditioning
4.1.4.4.1 special attention when Anti-Nuclear Bunkers
4.1.4.4.2 try use natural systems, flow of air, but take care put stoppers which could stop everything in case Bio, Nuclear or Chemical attack)
4.1.4.5 Water distribution
4.1.4.6 Wasted installation, toilets, etc
4.1.4.6.1 Better search solution more ecologic, such composting toilets, etc

4.2 Wastewater treatment
4.2.1 Biodegradation - Bacterial means
4.2.2 Filtration

4.3 Garbage disposal: as much as ecological possible-not much place dump garbage!
4.3.1 Procedure and Codes for Garbage consideration: Throw away NOTHING! Everything must be used, repaired as much as possible and used again! No consummatorism encouraged waste!
4.3.2 Handling residues from human wastes
4.3.3 Handling residues from cooking, food preparing and conserving
4.3.4 Handling residues from other activities
4.3.5 Handling Hygienic and Epidemic risk garbage - PROCEDURE's & sollutions
4.4 Annexes
4.4.1 Sheds
4.4.2 Barns
4.4.3 garages
4.4.4 Technical Rooms
4.4.5 Workshops
4.4.6 Storage Tanks
4.4.6.1 Liquid Fuels
4.4.6.2 Gas Fuels

4.5 Security of the Radiant zone from construction phase
4.5.1 Access in-buidling assured: strong doors, walls, windows
4.5.2 Plan location for Observation Post for Sentries and Sentinel - During Day Time
4.5.3 Plan location for Listening Post for sentriesand Sentinel - During Night Time
4.5.4 Plan location for eventual Spider Holes, moats, trenches, covers
4.5.5 Take seriously Camouflage precautions
4.5.5.1 Avoid unnatural configuration, or things can attract "unwanted" attention
4.5.5.1.1 Previous experience show that is not good attract attention by barbwire, high masonry castle fences, etc. Do not look like an army retreat or something. Because for sure, there are forces out there, anytime can defeat any security systems you may have in place. The idea is those forces not be attracted by that retreat, in the first place
4.5.5.1.2 The retreat should not look like a fort!
4.5.5.1.3 The retreat should be outside of visual sight from regular roads
4.5.5.1.4 First circle of defense should be natural without rise suspicions (dense wood, rocks, etc)
4.5.5.2 From Air
4.5.5.2.1 Avoid vehicle tyre marks, on different places than the normal roads or alleys
4.5.5.2.2 Try to use the existing day shadow, casted by neighbor bodies, such trees, building, etc
4.5.5.2.3 Avoid leaving imprinted tracks of vehicles in the grass, or on exposed soft soil, use the pathways already there or walk through minor creek beds, etc
4.5.5.2.4 Learn to use the camouflage in night and at crepuscule
4.5.5.3 From road
4.5.5.4 Always try to have some part or side of the retreat covered by a natural hard be defetead natural obstacle
4.5.6 Special consideration should granted to places where are passing cables, pipes, disposal facilities, fuel tanks, risk of fire
4.5.7 Special assessment of the surrounding threats, such wildfires, floods risk, heavy storms, mud or water sliding, falling rocks, dams cracking and breaking, vicinity of volcanoes, avoid costal area by at least of 200 Km, avoid earthquakes high risk area, extremely dangerous animals, avoid closest garrisons, penitentiary, hospitals (put many tenths of km between you and such things)

4.6 Water drainage system around Radiant Zone
4.6.1 Rain Water
4.6.2 Infiltration Water
4.6.3 very well design drainage system taking in consideration violent floods, rains, etc

5. WATER

We cannot live and function without water.
A proper influx of quality water should be provided and maintained even in the worst case scenarios.
These preparation should be thinking about and taken very good care.

5.1 Water Collecting
5.1.1 Springs, creeks
5.1.2 Wells
5.1.3 Rain water collectors
5.1.4 Transport with pipe or by recipients from surrounding area
5.1.5 Pools, basin, ponds (bathing, irrigation, for fire quelling

5.2 Water Storage
5.2.1 Medium Term considerations and amenities
5.2.2 Special consideration for Cooking & Drinking
5.2.3 Water for washing people, tools and clothes
5.2.4 Water for irrigations

5.3 Purification
5.3.1 Fixed facilities
5.3.1.1 Filtering - Separate the particles and some microorganisms (not safe drink)
5.3.1.2 Distilling - Is good to use for chemical poisoned waters (not for oils, toxic volatile agents; this stays good only for toxic or pollutants salts dissolved in water but not driven by water vapors into the condenser)
5.3.1.3 Biological safety (notchemical)
5.3.1.3.1 Chlorine, Bleach, Mineral Miracle Supplement
5.3.1.3.2 Iodine
5.3.1.3.3 Exposure of water to strong sun in transparent recipients - take care some plastics are emanating toxic substances into water, at higher pace when in sun
5.3.2 On the move, bushcraft purifying (case of Bug-Out, etc)
5.3.2.1 Ceramic water filters
5.3.2.2 Chlorine or Iodine disinfecting Pills

6. FOOD

One of the most important aspect of our life. Without food we will starve, then we will die. A horrible and agonizing death.
To prevent that, we should make provisions, must store, but we should think also in the distant perspective when our stock will finish and we cannot replenish from the SUPERMARKET!
Therefore we must ensue, that we have the means and skills to provide to our group, fresh food. As the food providing is sesonal we also must have the skills, to preserve gathered food on auspicious times
In scarcity condition, for which we are heading towards, it is of utmost importance assure the minimum amount of calories, minerals, micro and macro nutrients, vitamines and essential aminoacids, needed for a healthy and good functioning of the body!
Did I mention that someone cannot eat stored food for ever? That after a few months of eating only stored food, sores are developing in mouth and on the skin? That we need fresh herbs, vegetabless and fruits, from time to time to supplement the good caloric boost from stock food (grains, beans, cans, etc)? Thus we need the resources, skills and know-how to provide this fresh food to our community.

6.1 Cooking
6.1.1 Cooking Recipes
6.1.2 Methods of cooking
6.1.3 Oven
6.1.3.1 Dutch Oven
6.1.3.2 Bread Oven
6.1.3.3 Solar Oven
6.1.4 Stove
6.1.4.1 Liquid Fuel Stove
6.1.4.2 Wooden Stove
6.1.4.3 Gas
6.1.4.4 Camping Stove
6.1.5 Grills
6.1.5.1 Charcoals
6.1.5.2 Liquid Fuel
6.1.6 Utensils
6.1.6.1 Cutlery
6.1.6.2 Pots
6.1.6.3 Dish Cloths & Dish Towels, different cloths needed in kitchen or cheese cloth, etc
6.1.6.4 Kitchen Hand Tools (may be lack of electricity!)
6.1.6.4.1 Mincers
6.1.6.4.2 Grain Mill (for your tones of grains-that store better than flour)
6.1.6.4.3 Graters
6.1.6.4.4 Sieves

6.2 Storage
6.2.1 Mid term 1-2 years
6.2.1.1 Honey
6.2.1.2 Oil&Fats
6.2.1.3 Pasta
6.2.1.4 Spices & Prservatives
6.2.1.5 Flour
6.2.1.6 Sweets
6.2.1.7 Rice
6.2.1.8 Pickles
6.2.1.9 Dehydrated legumes and fruits
6.2.1.10 Gems, Marmalades
6.2.1.11 Powder Milk, Condensed Milk Cans, Butter cans
6.2.1.12 Bicuits, Danish Cookies
6.2.2 Long Term > 2 years
6.2.2.1 Meals Ready To Eat (MRE)
6.2.2.2 Cans
6.2.2.3 Beans, Grains

6.3 Preservation Methods
6.3.1 Drying
6.3.2 Salting
6.3.3 Smoking
6.3.4 Canning
6.3.5 Pickling
6.3.6 Marmalade, Jams

6.4 Gathering Fresh Food
6.4.1 Sprouting from beans and grains
6.4.2 Gathering Wild Edibles: fruits, roots, herbs, wild vegetables, berries, chestnuts, nuts, hazelnuts, ACCORN, sweet wood worms, locusts
6.4.3 Hunting, trapping
6.4.4 Fishing

6.5 Farming
6.5.1 Animal Breeding and raising
6.5.1.1 Cattle raising
6.5.1.2 Beekeeping Apiculture - Honey, Wax, Propolis, bee royal jelly, polen
6.5.1.3 Aquaculture
6.5.1.4 Birds, chickens & hens, geese, ducks
6.5.1.5 Small Mammals (rabbits, Guinea pigs)
6.5.2 Agriculture
6.5.2.1 Knowledge & Experience
6.5.2.2 Seeds
6.5.2.3 Land (prepared)
6.5.2.4 Greenhouse
6.5.2.5 Orchard
6.5.2.6 Aquaponics - Hydroponics
6.5.2.7 Tools
6.5.2.7.1 Hand tools: Gardening, plowing, digging
6.5.2.7.2 Tractor plus motortools
6.5.2.7.3 Animal plough, etc
6.5.2.8 Fertiliser
6.5.2.8.1 Natural composted
6.5.2.8.2 Chemical

7. SECURITY

ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT JOBS, after food, water and shelter.
Even is a chore, permanent watch routines, keeping sentries alert to any movement, organising patrols and put in place a system of early alarming of anything might approach to our retreat, is of collosal importance.
As well as good weaponry skills and fighting tehniques, should be learned by al able members. That, along with the well handling of the COMMUNICATION means, in order to transmit intelligence data or wake up alarms.
Did I said we need procedures we must know what to do, even someone just wake in the middle of the night? Did I miss saying that this should become as a second nature, to know what to do if this and that happens?
Do you remeber the lessons from human biology about IMMUNITARY SYSTEM from school? That, of defending the whole body? And it never sleeps, that immunitary systems, because when will happen somethng wrong with it, our body get sick and we die.

7.1 Procedure for assuring the security
7.2 Daytime, Nocturnal Watch, 6 h, or 8h, constant watch
7.2.1 Very Important for the safety of the group
7.2.2 All able should partake watch and training and patrols
7.2.3 All must be instructed of using COMM devices (talkie-walkie, wire phones, light and visual signalizing) respecting radio silence when required
7.2.4 All must to know to use many alarming systems and panic alarms in case something happens outside retreat

7.3 Security of retreat
7.3.1 Sentries POSTS watching retreat and immediate surroundings
7.3.1.1 OBSERVATION POST (day)
7.3.1.2 LISTENING POST (night)
7.3.2 Perimeter assured security
7.3.2.1 Natural obstacles (woods, bushes, stones)
7.3.2.2 Fences
7.3.2.3 Moats
7.3.2.4 Trenches
7.3.2.5 Traps, etc
7.3.3 Alarming Systems
7.3.3.1 Systems be triggered by sentries to inform the inside group threat is coming (Beside ther usualy COMM use (takie-Walkie+Wire Phone)
7.3.3.1.1 All Observation/Listening and sentries post have panic alarm buttons wired inside retreat to small wall alarms; so if sudden attack they push these buttons
7.3.3.1.2 In case of redundancy there are air horn alarms in every post
7.3.3.2 Autonomous Electronic Systems
7.3.3.3 Mechanical Systems (for ex. wires pull flares, or sound bells)
7.3.3.4 Dogs, geese, etc

7.4 Security of Neighborhood
7.4.1 Patrolling
7.4.2 Joining with other retreats or neighbor community in stopping a common enemy

7.5 Weaponry
7.5.1 Combat Weapons
7.5.1.1 NON fire weapons
7.5.1.2 Fire Weapons
7.5.2 Utilitary Weapons
7.5.2.1 Hunting
7.5.2.2 Varmints and pest control
7.5.3 Everybody should be train in the weapon usage and advance in specific likened weapon

8. HEALTH

Supposed to assure an overal good health state among the group members.
What should be more emphasing that for the long run, the natural panaceea provided by nature should be used. Natural remedies, teas, etc should be preferred of those expiring medicines from the stock. Be informed that some medicines, just loosing the healing power over the body when expired, while other turn in toxic substances, making more harm than good.
The actual medicines have a few years expiry date! Some of them became dangerous after expiring date!
We highly need amongst us, people with medical, nursing and dentist skills. Some training course in paramedics or survival medicine would be a skill appreciated everywhere, so worth make the effort and do such a training!

8.1 Stock of Medicines
8.1.1 Medicines
8.1.1.1 Antibiotics
8.1.1.2 Antiviral
8.1.1.3 Anti-inflammatory
8.1.1.4 Diuretics
8.1.1.5 Dehydration salts
8.1.1.6 Antihistaminics
8.1.1.7 Fever relieving
8.1.1.8 Anti vomiting & vomiting inducers (poisonings)
8.1.1.9 Antidiarrhea
8.1.1.10 Antiparasitary
8.1.1.11 Anesthetics
8.1.1.12 Vitamins, Minerals, Micronutrients, Omega 3(fish oil)
8.1.1.13 Ginseng, etc
8.1.1.14 Anti infections - throat, lungs, urinary
8.1.1.15 Antimycotics, antifungic, antibacterial
8.1.1.16 Dental disinfectant (clove oil)
8.1.1.17 Dental anesthetics
8.1.1.18 Prescription drugs for different ailments (heart, diabetes, etc)
8.1.2 Chemical substances used in treatments
8.1.2.1 Insects repellents
8.1.2.2 Iodine
8.1.2.3 Alcohol
8.1.2.4 Tincture of Benzoin (for better sticking band-aids)
8.1.2.5 Perfusion liquids
8.1.3 Bandages, band-aids, Hemostatic gelatin sponge

8.2 Knowledgeable people
8.2.1 Doctors
8.2.2 Nurses
8.2.3 Dentists

8.3 Child-birthing

8.4 Instruments and tools
8.4.1 Syringes, needles, surgical blades, tweezers, clamp scissors, scissors, etc
8.4.2 For treatment of wounds
8.4.3 Surgery
8.4.4 Dental handling
8.4.5 Means of transport for injured members

8.5 Traditional Healing Consideration
8.5.1 Medical Plants
8.5.1.1 recognize them - Books, Illustrated cards
8.5.1.2 Know what and when to harvest the plants
8.5.1.3 How to process
8.5.1.4 How to Storage
8.5.1.5 How to administrate to the ill
8.5.1.6 Know how can plant yourself by stored seeds
8.5.2 Will be of utmost vital importation after the modern medicines, antibiotics, aspirins are gone, or expired
8.5.2.1 Know how make Home make penicillin
8.5.2.2 Know that the the tea of dried and minced willow bark tree (salix Alba) it containSALICIN, acting as aspirin
8.5.3 Different substances in house for treating illnesses (vinegar, Olive oil, Rosemarie etheric oils, etc)

8.6 Health exercises
8.6.1 Qi Gong
8.6.2 Tai Chi
8.6.3 Pilates
8.6.4 Yoga
8.6.5 Workout routines

9. COMMUNICATION SYSTEMS - COMM

One of the most important feature is that of connection with outside world, with keeping in touch between different subgroups or activities. Imagine yourself in a remote area, without any information about what's happened? After months and months, living with the same people, you may ask yourself what was happening? You long to know some piece of information.
So, here is coming into help this discipline helping us also to keep us in contact and to collect INTELLIGENCE data, which after dissemination and thoroughly analyze will be the base for , some tough decision to be made! By existing or not these intel data, our life is at stake.
The connection with the large world will be made by HAM radio, either CW Morse code, RTTY, serial data transmission with Fidonet, or voice with other Radiant zones.
Codification and cryptografic procedures should be put in place.
Radio silence procedures should be in place, when required by tactical situation.

9.1 COMM Procedures
9.1.1 Radio Silence Procedure
9.1.2 Codes and Cryptographic Message encoding/decoding
9.1.3 Intelligence gathering, analyzing and reporting Procedures
9.1.3.1 Direct Human Observation
9.1.3.1.1 Sky watching for flights, aircrafts, choppers hovering, other worrisome PHENOMENA
9.1.3.1.2 Observing movements
9.1.3.1.2.1 Normal, regular people (maybe they are in the know of something)
9.1.3.1.2.2 Military or para military troops
9.1.3.1.2.3 Vehicles, especially odd and unusual from the common
9.1.3.1.3 Any changing in environment without explanation
9.1.3.2 Radio Scanner - Duty, Private Non encrypted Channels
9.1.3.2.1 Police, Sheriff agents
9.1.3.2.2 Army agents
9.1.3.2.3 Governmental agencies
9.1.3.2.4 Hospital ambulances communication
9.1.3.2.5 Truckers bands
9.1.3.3 Public Broadcasting
9.1.3.4 Radio-amateurs Radio Communications - HAM Radio
9.1.3.5 From other neighboring people
9.1.3.5.1 Neighbor communities
9.1.3.5.2 From Patrolling trips
9.1.3.5.3 Rumors, etc

9.2 Inside Radiant Zone Communications
9.2.1 By loud voice
9.2.2 By signs visible with eyes
9.2.2.1 Singns - Daytime
9.2.2.2 Light codes - Night time
9.2.3 Wireline phone
9.2.3.1 Old 2 wire old phone between different building blocks and activity places
9.2.3.2 Between Sentries from Observation and Watching Post
9.2.4 Intercoms
9.2.4.1 Bads: simplex and contain electronics (EMP risk) better with Old 2 wire line phone
9.2.5 Two-way radio - Simplex (one speaks at a time, the other listens)
9.2.5.1 Different standards
9.2.5.1.1 Check Legalities for that area
9.2.5.1.2 Different tactics need different powers and coverages
9.2.5.1.2.1 Most of time desired range as max as possible
9.2.5.1.2.2 Sometime is best to reduce to minimum the range, just avoid be "listened"
9.2.5.1.3 CB Radio 27 MHz
9.2.5.1.3.1 FQ: 27 Mhz,
9.2.5.1.3.2 long range: tenths of KM
9.2.5.1.3.3 When Patrolling, between patrols and Radiant Zone
9.2.5.1.3.4 Between Radiant Zone and other citizens, neighbor communities
9.2.5.1.4 Talkie Walkie
9.2.5.1.4.1 PMR446 system -EUROPE; short distance max 0.5 W, range: 0.8 - 3 Km,
9.2.5.1.4.2 FRS & GMRS - Licensed in US (460 MHz), max 5W, range: up to 45 Km
9.2.5.1.4.3 MURS- Business COM, but OK personal (150 Mhz), Max 2W, range 0.8 -3 Km
9.2.5.2 Short Distances - Tactical and Utilitary
9.2.5.2.1 Observation Post - Buildings (redundancy)
9.2.5.2.2 Between different members scattered on the Radiant Zone area
9.2.5.2.3 During Patrolling
9.2.5.2.4 During Bug-Out Operations
9.2.5.2.5 During low level combat operations (when no need respect RADIO SILENCE)

9.3 Communications between Radiant Zone and outer world
9.3.1 Ham Radio - Radio Amateur radio - Using this information channel we can transmit
9.3.1.1 RTTY
9.3.1.2 Serial data transmissions to other Radio-Amateur
9.3.1.3 To PPP computee network such Fidonet
9.3.2 By letters carried by messengers, if the road were opened and some security is in place
9.3.3 Some can think use even messenger pigeons

9.4 Intelligence Data collection - INTEL
9.4.1 INTEL Information Gathering
9.4.2 INTEL Information Analysing & Reporting
9.4.2.1 The outcome is Information on which the Group will react to the threats

10. ENERGY

Nothing works without energy! Therefore this feature should be thoroughly given attention.
We should cover each and every scenario and energy should be assured.
The most important for long term will be wood, some fuel for light and electric energy.
Research in radiant energy should provide us with FREE ENERGY. The research internationaly is quelled down by TPTB, because affecting their demographic policies.

10.1 Thermal Energy
10.1.1 Liquid Fuels
10.1.1.1 Diesel
10.1.1.2 Gasoline + Preservers
10.1.1.3 Kerosene
10.1.1.4 Motor Oils
10.1.2 Solid Fuels
10.1.2.1 Wood
10.1.2.2 Coals
10.1.3 Gas Fuels
10.1.3.1 Biogas - recuperable from decomposing organic matter - way of recycle
10.1.3.2 Butane, propane gas

10.2 Electric Energy
10.2.1 Solar
10.2.2 Wind
10.2.3 Water fall
10.2.4 Batteries
10.2.5 Accumulators for storage

10.3 Tesla Radiant Energy or OVERUNITY ENERGY
10.3.1 Lutec Electricity Amplifier
10.3.2 Thomas Henry Moray rectifiers

11. SANITATION

Do not underestimate the cleaning, disinfection and pest control which may spread nasty disease.
Periodical cleaning, disinfection, limecoating will be in place. More importance should be given to the food storage area, food processing are and kitchen where food is prepared.
After floods or some nasty disease outbreaks, good and thoroughly sanitation must be put in place!
The rodents, pests, dead and rotting corpses around our retreat are source of disease and pandemics. We must keep a clean and safe environment around us.

11.1 Periodic cleaning
11.1.1 Buildings
11.1.2 Storage facilities
11.1.3 Clothes

11.2 Pest control
11.2.1 Ferals
11.2.2 Rodents
11.2.3 Termites
11.2.4 Roaches
11.2.5 Grain Pests

11.3 Disinfection
11.3.1 Periodically
11.3.2 After Floods
11.3.3 After epidemics

11.4 Lime coating (powerful and cheap disinfectant; also look nice and clean)

12.TRANSPORT

Transport will be used for:
People when moving far from retreat, patrolling, etc
When bringing to retreat different stuff, such cutted wood, harvested crops, etc

12.1 Vehicles
12.1.1 Fuel consideration
12.1.1.1 Short time: 1 year gasoline
12.1.1.2 2 years: gasoline with preservative
12.1.1.3 More than 3 years: Diesel
12.1.1.4 Methanol
12.1.2 Cars
12.1.3 Tractors
12.1.4 Carts
12.1.5 Wheelbarrows
12.1.6 Carriage
12.1.7 Traction/transport animals
12.1.7.1 Horses
12.1.7.2 Donkeys
12.1.7.3 Buffalos

12.2 Transport Recipients
12.2.1 Bushels
12.2.2 Buckets
12.2.3 Sacks
12.2.4 Drums

12.3 Accessories
12.3.1 Ropes
12.3.2 Ties
12.3.3 Textile cloths
12.3.4 Chains
12.3.5 Bungee elastic cords

13.TRAINING

Cannot highlight enough the importance of training!
Most important of all, the military training, because most of folks, never had this training
Why military? Because in the ****ty times ahead we expect, always some peoples will think that is easy to prey on other peoples which they prepared in advance. These people will think that is OK to take by force what they want. Our mission is to prove them they are wrong.
Not only that, but also different government folks or agencies might have some plans for us, without asking our approval,
How we can face them with a bunch of untrained people? You guess how; we train them!
As any of the skills, the weapons handling and military skills, must be practiced a lot. Even we discussing fire arms, or bow and arrows, or just a simply catapulte... Everything need knowledge and practice.

13.1 Military Procedures
13.1.1 Defense
13.1.2 Patrolling
13.1.3 Weapon Handling
13.1.4 Hand to hand combat

13.2 Health Exercises

14.LEARNING

The process of knowledge transfer of humans, besides the survival power per se, is assuring knowledge is passed from one member to another. What if the only doctor gets sick? Or what if the military instructor gets badly injured? We need to diseminate information of all sorts, between members and creating skill redundancy people!
This is very important for children the community !
Also, very important for rest of the members, to keep their minds wheels, always in motion!

14.1 Learning Methods

14.2 Classes of
14.2.1 Farm land living
14.2.2 cooking
14.2.3 food preserving
14.2.4 Wild edible recognize classes
14.2.5 Crafts
14.2.6 Foreign Languages
14.2.7 History
14.2.8 Socio-Politics
14.2.9 Science
14.2.10 Medicine
14.2.11 Know plants and herbs
14.2.12 Natural healing

14.3 Information Sources
14.3.1 Printings
14.3.2 Books
14.3.3 Computers in a networks
14.3.4 Digital data storage
14.3.4.1 CD, DVD
14.3.4.2 Memory sticks
14.3.4.3 Hardrives
14.3.4.4 MP3 players,iPODS
14.3.5 Audio bands, cassettes
14.3.6 Video cassettes

15.LEISURE TIME

Time specialy designated for strenghtening community bondage, sharing knowledges and experiences, a good way for morale boosting.
REMEMBER, in the coming times, we will need that morale booster, alot!

15.1 Reading
15.2 Singing
15.3 Playing Instruments
15.4 Video Games
15.5 Society Games
15.6 Music Listening
15.7 Story Telling
15.8 Theatre scenettes
15.9 Organizing Holidays for different Nationality in RZ

16.CRAFTS

Very important for maintaing our material base. Things get broken, coming apart. New things or accesories must be manufacturated. Can we buy them? Not very lightly!
So, we must have a heap of materials and tools, along with people with skills, to be able make that needed things for us.
Also the retreat has a lot of systems and mechanisms. Imagine how it would be without that working properly!

16.1 Tools, Tids & Bits
16.1.1 Materials & Parts
16.1.1.1 Screws, Nuts, bolts
16.1.1.2 Metal sheets, plates
16.1.1.3 Pipes
16.1.1.4 Wires, cable
16.1.1.5 Parts & SUbparts for different sub-systems, vehicles and apparatus

16.1.2 Hand-tools
16.1.2.1 Covering all crafts we have people specialized on
16.1.2.2 Many Tool kits, easy handling and transporting where is need
16.1.3 Power tools
16.1.3.1 Power Drills, electric saws, etc

16.2 Skills person in
16.2.1 Carpentry
16.2.2 Construction
16.2.3 Metalwork
16.2.4 Mechanics
16.2.5 Gunsmithing
16.2.6 General Handyman
16.2.7 Welding
16.2.8 Plumbing
16.2.9 Electronics & Electricity
16.2.10 IT guy
16.2.11 Cloth making: looming, Sewing, Crochetting, Knitting

16.3 Craft are producing
16.3.1 Leather articles
16.3.2 Tools & Utensils
16.3.3 Clothes, textiles
16.3.4 Accessories: Bags, Rucsacks

16.4 Reparations
16.4.1 Different things
16.4.2 Different systems

17.ABANDON RETREAT

In difficult times, when the retreat is attacked by supperior forces, which will ooust the resistence force, the community leader along with the military expert should take the painful decision to leave the retreat.
Far in advance, based on differnt INTEL of perils approaching, from INTEL Officer, the group should make provisions caches along the way to bug out places, such caves, forrest, etc.
Very important:
1. Intel we have, must be correctly assessed
2. The military force correct estimation
3. The preparation be made in time
Remember, if need leave the retreat in middle of the night, just with some backsacks, the probability of survival the group, in the following days will be very low, close to nil!
The bug-out could be decided for threats not necesarilly military, such heavy winds, or floods or meteorits shower, when a cave or a natural deep underground shelter will offer better chance of survival. But those places, should be secured well in advance. Caches with food, water, materials and tools shoud be already prepared on the way to the final retreat.

17.1 Why to bug out from retreat? Aren't we safe here?
17.1.1 Cases when remaining in retreat is endangering the life

17.2 Major dangers
17.2.1 Huge attack on the retreat; assessment of the military command say we can't defeat
17.2.2 Meteorites shower and retreat not resistant at
17.2.3 Devastating fires in the nearby woods with possibility of totally devastation RZ
17.2.4 Huge attack EMP or attack type Blue Beam Project, need go caves
17.2.5 Different threats ousting the limited defending capacity of the group

17.3 Where
17.3.1 Caves
17.3.2 Hidden places in woods
17.3.3 Wholes, labyrinths in the rock, ground, etc

17.4 Abandon Procedures
17.4.1 Already need be in place
17.4.2 How to abandon retreat, order, what take what leave

17.5 Caches
17.5.1 Water
17.5.2 Food
17.5.3 Materials and equipment (sleeping bags, warm clothes, flashlights, water filters)
17.5.4 Importance of caches: places furnished with food, materials, weapon in advance in hidden places just in case scenarios
17.5.5 How to hide the caches, systems of retrieve after the hidden caches
================================================== ==========================================

What is your opinion, if someone is observing all of these issues will be in the safe side, or not?
What is missing?
What is redundant?

All the best!
Artvision

Seashore

07-25-2009, 11:18 PM

Here is the suggested outline for the Radiant Zone Guide...

Wow!! :original:

mudra

07-26-2009, 12:05 AM

Thank you Artvision .
Lots to work on there.
This will take some time.

I am off now to the UK for a week.

Keep the thread burning friends.
Do well.

loving kindness
mudra

artvision

07-26-2009, 12:36 AM

Thank you Artvision .
Lots to work on there.
This will take some time.

I am off now to the UK for a week.

Keep the thread burning friends.
Do well.

loving kindness
mudra

Bye, Mudra, have a nice trip! All the best!

BROOK

07-26-2009, 04:13 AM

TtC...no more pm's please..I am not going to open it. Mudra said you would present us your vision, and answer any questions I have.
Respectfully Ttc, and giving you the benefit of the doubt..I don't want any more PM's from you...it's either here for all to see, or your silence will be your answer.

TtC

07-26-2009, 04:28 AM

Yes, but Mudra does not speak for me, only I do. I suggest you open it. It is the last one.

BROOK

07-26-2009, 04:34 AM

I cannot open it...I deleted it. I don't want anymore pm's I just want some answers...if you choose not to state your vision for all here to see..that is your choice

I will not attack you, I will listen with open ears.

TtC

07-26-2009, 04:39 AM

I am posting this as a courtesy:

Hello Brook,

It seems I have caused some confusion.

Firstly, no matter what, you cannot control what others think or do. That is what I meant by quoting Crowley when he said “do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.” The only thing I can do is control myself. Whatever anyone else does, you have no control over it.

As for the reference about cataclysm and the NWO, I find that, yes, there is only a stream of well-being that flows. I do not wish for such things to happen and will not attract such things to myself, but others may. I cannot help that. My intentions for communities is to move away from fear. I want them to be an alternative to current society where we can learn and grow with like minded people in order to move our evolution forward. I know you want to stay in the city or what have you, and I do not object to this. I have the resources to create such a community for those who wish to go there and I am the option is available to them.

The property is no where near the Bakken Formation region, it's actually in west Montana away from that. I used to work in the oil field in Alberta and there is no reason why I would go back to the same situation. I am trying to get away from the use of oil, but it is good for the production of plastics and lubricants. Corn is being tested for the same thing as I recall.

This is a very large project. I have, indeed, been working on this since I was young. Just something I was compelled to do and I have written nearly ten thousand pages and five million words on how the society will function including logistics for continuance. As you may have seen, Artvision has a good start and it is more complicated than most think.

I know you have had some rough times, as have many others, but I feel no reason why we cannot work things out. If you would like the Abraham material, you are more than welcome to it.

I will be reiterating my proposal with some clarity, later, for people to look at.

Thank you,

TtC

Mind you, this is not up for debate.

BROOK

07-26-2009, 04:49 AM

Thank you for the offer of the Abraham - Hicks material...however I have most of it already. Been acquanted with the materian for quite some time now. From the very first book to the present, and many Cd's as well...very good material..and highly recommended :thumb_yello:

By "mind you this is not up for debate"..does that mean you are unwilling to discuss some of the pressing questions that many here have...and instead of confrontation, Just simple question and answer time about some of the areas of concern?

TtC

07-26-2009, 04:51 AM

By "mind you this is not up for debate"..does that mean you are unwilling to discuss some of the pressing questions that many here have...and instead of confrontation, Just simple question and answer time about some of the areas of concern?

I meant the debate as the comments should be between you and me.

I did switch on the save out-going messages though in case something like this did happen.

I will answer areas of concern and whatnot, but I will not engage in arguing. If I stop answering a certain inquirer then it would be for this reason.

BROOK

07-26-2009, 05:28 AM

As I stated, Ttc..I will not attack you and I will listen with open ears, and mind...all you have to to do is state your position on the concerns

Be honest with me now Ttc..you have a confrontational way of screening. As several have expressed....this might be part of the biggest problem with the realization of your project.

Do you at least agree, that that might be why so many here might have been rubbed the wrong way in the beginning? I know it was a huge red flag with me.

It could be the largest part of the reason so many here are suspect, and question your motives....

I know you are young, and maybe dealing with the public is not your thing...I myself deal with the public on a daily basis...it is my job to sell myself first...and This is not intended as criticism...and it is not in any way an attack on you...many people do not have that skill...it took me a while to learn it.

I used to be a performer while I was in college...and getting on a stage was the hardest thing I ever had to do...however I overcame the fear, and finally learned to cope.... then the skill grew in leaps and bounds...sort of like Abraham-hicks style...the law of attraction set in and took off.

But this is not about me ...back to the whys and what evers....

In the screening process..what were you looking for in an individual?

Anchor

07-26-2009, 05:35 AM

BROOK

07-26-2009, 05:42 AM

To all who it may concern,

I like debate and am for it. What I am not for is the increasing levels of innuendo, character assault and blatant aggression that has been witnessed recently on this forum.

I am simply asking you - pleading with you actually - to stop doing it.

A..

Anchor..I am being very civil...and only asking questions., if it is me you are speaking about..it fact it was invited by one and the same. I will not be breaking any rules around here

Dantheman62

07-26-2009, 05:50 AM

http://www.dalecarnegie.com/images/m8S4book1.gifHow to Win Friends and Influence People (javascript:MM_openBrWindow('http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780671027032&itm=2&afsrc=1&lkid=J17129935&pubid=K131007&byo=1','','toolbar=yes,location=yes,menubar=yes,sc rollbars=yes,resizable=yes,width=600,height=600'))
Author: Dale Carnegie

Wormhole

07-26-2009, 06:03 AM

Ttc,
Hi there. I request that you openly publish the preamble. Thank you.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

ps. When ever you can.

Anchor

07-26-2009, 06:08 AM

if it is me you are speaking about.

There is no need for me to single people out.

A..

BROOK

07-26-2009, 06:15 AM

sorry to offend it was not my intention

Anchor

07-26-2009, 06:37 AM

There was a severe problem with physical abuse there on the mentally retarded..and they would hit them in the solar plexus so as not to leave a mark...My mother put a stop to it, by exposing it.

Brook,

I've read many of your excellent posts on this forum - and when you announced you were leaving I read a few of them again. So I know you understand the difference between off-topic and on-topic. Your story is somewhat off-topic - but you posted it regardless. Assuming there is purpose to it, then I can only assume that by implication and in the context of this thread, are you stating that your purpose is to stop TtC from abusing people ?

Isn't that a loaded proposition - don't you see how that accuses TtC of harmful intent? Was that your purpose? If not then what exactly was it?

Don't you think that its possible that people are somewhat bothered by the oblique way you are approaching this inquiry you pursue TtC with?

Do you really think people here even need that kind of help?

I think people here deserve a few things:

1) Respect
2) Tolerance
3) Honesty
4) A hearing
5) More respect

A..

BROOK

07-26-2009, 06:48 AM

,,,

Anchor

07-26-2009, 06:55 AM

Stop ttc fro abusing people....how can you see that in what I just wrote? It has nothing to do with him at all...that is obsurd

Almost every post you made in the TtC related threads appeared to be aimed at "exposing" TtC in some way - or on the original thread outright accusation.

That is the context you set for my interpretation of your message.

Now if there is anything to expose then this is justified.

Is there?

Anyway thanks for clarifying your position.

A..

BROOK

07-26-2009, 07:00 AM

I guess for the recoud ttc..that was not intended, or directed at you in any way...it was just an explanation, addressing the post about segregating from society that was brought up much early on in this thread.

It would be along the lines of topic here as to weather start a radient zone, or stay and hold the fort down I guess...I'm a little thrown off on this.

Again... this has nothing to do with ttc..and only to do with why those might stay and create their onw safty zone, as best possible

I guess also off topic

I will remove it

BROOK

07-26-2009, 07:29 AM

No one is saying you cannot prepare yourself and your family for trying times. Hell, I prepare for the winter as I know the weather can be funny. I make sure there is extra supplies in the house in case of power outages, etc. People with common sense would usually make sure they have some extra supplies around.

Why would I want to segregate people? I'd rather integrate than segregate. However by building your own community, that in and of itself is segregating. All of the like minded individuals are all living there helping each other, etc. while the rest of the world looks in.

Now if this were an open commune where anyone, like minded or not can come and go and share in everything..that is different. How would it be any different than living in a gated community? So you'll have programs to let the outsiders in. So all of those other individuals who weren't lucky enough to snag a spot in the program will all just be turned away? Too bad? Soo sorry? Come back some other time?

Working on oneself is a continuing process. Just like learning is a continuing process. As you work upon yourself, you can still try to help others around you. It only stops when you want it to stop.

Winter Wolf

This is the topic I was addressing...so sorry if I ever offended anyone....I guess forums are not intended for me..

Ttc best of luck in your building of community...if I have unjustly accused you..I am so sorry....I actually this time wanted to help you share your vision...as I believe you just are not very good at explaning to the members what is is you intend..
Someone just told my I am taking this all to personally...well I will humble myself and say...you're right...sorry Anchor you were so offended..it was not my intention.

TtC

07-26-2009, 07:57 AM

Question: What were you looking for in an individual?

Answer: We are looking for people who are willing to contribute to a community with the goal of creating a better society with like minded people and have the mission statement and basic premises resonate with them.

Statment: I request that you openly publish the preamble.

Counter-statement: The link below is the Fiscal Preamble. It has been changed from the original fiscal gist that was posted elsewhere in order to clarify some points. As it states at the beginning, it is by no means a be all or end all. It is to give a basic idea for those concerned about money and whether or not is will cost them anything. Short answer: it's free.

Fiscal Preamble (http://www.tracethecircle.com/fiscalgist.pdf)

I will make a general statement about segregation and integration and my feelings about it.

I do not wish to segregate anyone, but in creating a community is may look as if we do not want to be with the rest of humanity. I would say one of the greater concerns is about self-sufficiency. In most metropolitan areas, it is somewhat hard to even grow your own vegetables year round to support yourself, let alone have a dairy cow. There are many people, not just those who want a different place to live, but those just looking for better quality food. I think that is why most farmer's markets exist. That, and supporting local growers. In a way, yes, it is segregating, but others have the opportunity to do exactly as you do. I would be more than happy to integrate people into the community if they wanted. I don't think the majority of society would like to move buildings to make way for garden plots so we could integrate suburbia as a whole. We cannot wake everyone up. Some of you may have experienced it. The more you try the more the person resists. They will come around in their own time, but some just don't want to be awake. We are segregated now, and not just by our philosophies, but by income brackets, religions, races, gender, sexual orientation, the fields of study we pursue, the jobs we work at. We all hang out in groups and if someone of unlike interests comes by, most will steer clear because they don't like the topic of conversation. I don't think there will ever be a full integration, we are all different and that contrast makes the world go round. If we were all the same, it would be a dull and boring place.

Wormhole

07-26-2009, 07:59 AM

Thanks!
Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

Sorry, I had to laugh about the line..."Those of you who are worried about material wealth and preservation."

Thanks again for the preamble. I wish you only the best. I would like to order a copy of the pages. I will be in touch for that. Any other info you would like to share will be greatly appreciated.

artvision

07-26-2009, 08:20 AM

Dears,

Up to now, here on thread, I observed three major main approaches, to the idea of safety retreating :

A. The preparation as best as possible, at your existing home location, which is, of course, located in "civilized" world meaning a city/town of some sort?

B. The constructing of the Radiant Zone (RZ) by someone with financial means, something like a condo, or furnished apartments waiting to receive their tenants?

C. The construction of a RZ by a cooperative of each respective member contributing, by buying his piece of land, somehow neighbouring one with each other, then using the common powers (financial, work force) to construct for each memeber a house/shelter of the independent lot of each other, being more cheaply, than a individual approach; and more prone a company will move heavy machinery in a very remote place. By this, we are constructing like a small village where everybody can have their own piece of property but will act as a single entity in protecting, working to obtain food, resources, etc...

Now there is also to clarify the basis on which, people are let in, into these RZ after they are ready - by any of the method B, C (A is not feasible because is your own house):

For B and C by methods of making:

1) The people let in, accepted, by the entity which constructed that RZ on some kind of agreement of some sort (case B) or by the cooperative agreement between the StartUp-ers (case C)

2) After the initial population of the retreat, regardless, B or C method new admission will be:

2.1. The next people to come are under careful scrutiny of the existing members and their admission is based of a sort of "approval" from the majority/unanimity of the existing members and they must abode to a certain set of retreat rules

2.2. Or, let inside anybody, anyhow, from anywhere, without any agreement nor responsibility of any sort, anybody can leave, can do whatever, at the best of the capacity

Did I understand correctly, correct me if I'm wrong?!

Wormhole

07-26-2009, 08:42 AM

Though I think Ttc will/should be able to address these reasonings, I have to say that all these questions and more should be posed and probed to the best of our abilities.

Now the community that I am working with does have a few rules that have been stated:

No guns
Participation: planting, harvesting, upkeep of your lodging and communal lodging.
includes: Being present for council meetings, being a equal part of the council, communicating your views using the premisses of Non-violent communication.
Being service to others.
Honesty.
Tolerance of others differences and cultural choices.

We have a manual outlining the plan of the community which I will download and share.

This is a spiritual place, not based in a fear paradigm. Though we think from the head, we also think from the heart. There is a lot of work to be done.

Everyone needs to think about what they want. What they are willing to do. Who they are. And not be in judgement of this. All answers really do lead to God. There is no separation here. You can live in a city and be true of heart or live in another way and feel that is your destiny.

It's all good.

Different societies will begin and change and meld... our only constant "change" is always our teacher. To become a part of any community will change that community just through your joining it. Energy moves...

Take heart... Be your own community first with a centered heart and a love for all. Then your truth will resonate no matter where you are!

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

artvision

07-26-2009, 08:55 AM

Anchor

07-26-2009, 08:57 AM

I too envisage a community.

It will be suitable for those that choose to remain embodied through the ascension process. The members will be people who find it by following their hearts and via the workings of the law of attraction. Its construction will be manifest by the focussed intent of all those who take part. In keeping with the law of allowance, there will be no rules.

Love

A..

TtC

07-26-2009, 09:16 AM

I will agree with Wormhole on the premise that it is not fear-based but a spiritual place.

The community I propose is closer to your B statement. I will elaborate. The way I have designed a lot of the community has to do more with physical mechanical integration of systems that are interconnected to help the community and reduce its environmental impact. That being said, statement A is not valid and statement C seems a little unfair to me. I want to offer everyone an equal opportunity whereas statement C is a kind of "fend for yourself within a loosely knit group" kind of thing. Whoever has the most money gets the nicest retreat. At the moment, the housing arrangements in my community are on a tell us you're interested in coming and we'll build you a house kind of basis. A different scenario would be tomorrow I get a massive influx of people who are all welcome and we have five hundred people there. We would be more inclined to convert to a loosely apartmentish type arrangement. I actually have this covered, but I'm keeping it short.

Number 1, Case B:

I have proposed a variation of this in order to keep everyone level. If everyone agrees to the same thing, then there are no loop holes per se. I wouldn't say there are strict rules as of yet, because so many factors are population dependent, the "basic premises" give everyone something to work with. At a later time and with more people a formal charter may be drafted, but in doing so, clauses must be written in for the evolution of the community, the people, the society, and the charter itself. I think Case C would have several things in common with Case B. To clarify, I have passed the premises through more than just myself and they were revised and edited to be more accommodating.

Number 2.1

I think there would have to be a certain amount of scrutiny. In such a situation there are liable to be people of unsound mind and well as those with malicious intent.

Number 2.2

Letting anyone in with no responsibility placed on them could cause harm to a community. You could have twenty people come in and eat all your food and leave in three days while stealing your stuff. A drastic example, but in such a scenario, there are bound to be those who go Mad Max and turn into looters and whatnot.

With either of number two, a certain amount of discretion should be employed, but you have to look at it from a logical standpoint because after a catastrophe there is a likelihood that some of the residents will allow fear to be a dominantly deciding factor when faced with a large number of refugees.

artvision

07-26-2009, 09:44 AM

artvision

07-26-2009, 09:48 AM

I added the Introductory word, which has been wiped out when passing from outliner (it was a note in there) to the word processor, being very tired after working for 2 days as visual and another for outlining, adding notes etc.

As TtC said, in one of the previous posts, who thinks this is easy business, making a RZ, is not truthful with himself. If so much work just to line up the titles of chapters and subchapters only, imagine what will be to fill in with information (proper and verified), not mention the fact of bring such project to a working reality!
You can read it, added in the same Radiant Zone Guide post at PAGE 7 of this thread:

INTRODUCTORY WORD
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15480&page=7

mudra

07-26-2009, 10:14 AM

Well done for the quantum leap in love and understanding that happened overnight.
You are all great souls.
I am very gratefull to you all to make this thread a decent place for exchange of ideas and constructive focus.

May you keep the good work.

I am really off now to catch my airplane ;)

:thumb_yello:
Love you all
mudra

rhythm

07-26-2009, 10:38 AM

Anchor

07-26-2009, 10:43 AM

Up to now, here on thread, I observed three major main approaches, to the idea of safety retreating

For completeness I would think you left out the option to do nothing and remain content, heart centered and at one with the universe. There may of course be some more...

Now there is also to clarify the basis on which, people are let in

The world is a big place but spiritual laws apply on all scales. In a well structured spiritually focussed "Radiant Zone", different kinds of people will be rather like immiscible liquids trying to mix,the "wrong" people cannot "get in" - it is energetically impossible. They always separate and form strata according to their vibratory condition.

In a thread of thinking that involves the consideration of guns and defense is it correct to bring up such "spirituality" and the significance that the spiritual laws will apply ? Yes I think so because it is central to the concept of "Radiant" in the title radiant zone.

With respect, I think that some of the thinking is old paradigm. (Guns, defense, discrimination etc). I am taking the opportunity here to offer an additional line of thinking that changes the paradigm that applies to the solution.

Of course, this thinking is valid and worthwhile because we are entering into a period of time that includes a chaotic transition for each person that is alive and the planet. During this time there may well be a case for old paradigm survivalist training/preparation and thinking and I will be there contributing to these efforts as well. I have made significant preparations of this nature in my personal life and have and will continue to help others do so if asked.

A..

artvision

07-26-2009, 11:58 AM

For completeness I would think you left out the option to do nothing and remain content, heart centered and at one with the universe. There may of course be some more...

The world is a big place but spiritual laws apply on all scales. In a well structured spiritually focussed "Radiant Zone", different kinds of people will be rather like immiscible liquids trying to mix,the "wrong" people cannot "get in" - it is energetically impossible. They always separate and form strata according to their vibratory condition.

In a thread of thinking that involves the consideration of guns and defense is it correct to bring up such "spirituality" and the significance that the spiritual laws will apply ? Yes I think so because it is central to the concept of "Radiant" in the title radiant zone.

With respect, I think that some of the thinking is old paradigm. (Guns, defense, discrimination etc). I am taking the opportunity here to offer an additional line of thinking that changes the paradigm that applies to the solution.

Of course, this thinking is valid and worthwhile because we are entering into a period of time that includes a chaotic transition for each person that is alive and the planet. During this time there may well be a case for old paradigm survivalist training/preparation and thinking and I will be there contributing to these efforts as well. I have made significant preparations of this nature in my personal life and have and will continue to help others do so if asked.

A..

Anchor, I much appreciate your feedback.:welcomeani:

For that left out option, I thought that by coming here and posting (@RADIANT ZONES thread) has been automatically filtered out. Meaning those participating here are interested of that, not remaining at home, in a middle of turmoil when SHTF.

My personal feeling about the Radiant Zone is it radiates a vibrational energy of a say frequency. All persons, that are tuned to that frequency will become or may become dwellers together. So after they found each other, no need anymore rules or regulation to behave as HUMANS. The rules and regulations, I see as SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) meaning: "What I should do if this or that is happening" I mean, in that condition of life threatening situation and an increased danger, any delay of decision or, even worse, not knowing what to do at all, could have pretty dire consequences for person and entire group.

So, anyway we discuss, any direction we will look, the way the world as is constructed is about of some kind of filtering (or auto filtering; just example, other people may consider our discussion boring for them, while we are enjoying). Therefore using terms segregationist, etc, seem bring bad resonances in our mental, but volens nolens, you cannot be in a Radiant Zone will all the world, just with those are resonate with you.

I'm strong supporter of helping and dedicated to help others, as much as we could by a grosso modo saying:
"Give until it's hurts"

The weapons there, were mentioned just for completeness (so some people might want use our guide will say: "hey, but where are the guns?" because many are still in the old paradigm, as you already smartly mentioned, but we must avoid to blame them).
So, anybody could disregard the point not fits with their way, but for the sake of completeness, this should be there. As the world is, with goods as with bads. In order we exclude from the beginning, the defense & stuff, will look as separatism or segregationist to others, not mention they will disregarding the entire informational value, that probably would of helped them, otherwise.

Look, also me I do not know 100% how is to be done to be good, otherwise would do it before asking you guys here. The whole point is to discuss and share all the points, while offering the rationale that backing our affirmations.

Please, I want to start fleshing the Organisation. We got some ideas about the conduit and ethics (thanks guys for contribution!:original:)

Maybe the signature is a bit misdirecting. What I mean by those 5 B's:
Belief - faith, spirituality, higher vibration (that is not the pure Dawinistic C.O.G. stuff)
Brains - meaning wisdom, knowledge gathered and ready to be applied in case of SHTF
Beans - everything for nurturing
Bullets - In the meaning of defense, not necessarily by killing or by firearms, means everything put in place for safety
Band-Aids - the healling capabilities, body and spiritual wise

So, after sorting this out, I gladly await for your feedback, on how we choose the people and what do you want to add about "PEOPLE" section?
Once again, I would like to thank you and we keep the same frequency level.

Anchor

07-26-2009, 12:20 PM

Artivision: your approach is certainly comprehensive !

Change Bullets to Barter and you might just win me over on that one :)

A..

artvision

07-26-2009, 01:07 PM

Artivision: your approach is certainly comprehensive !

Change Bullets to Barter and you might just win me over on that one :)

A..

With this, did I?:sneaky2:

artvision

07-26-2009, 02:26 PM

Dears,

I just got a strange information, which has to do with the coming devastating events soon to come in 2009, just not regard much as off-topic. (At least for the SHTF scenarios for the guide)

This information has been publicized in a book, which translated from Romanian will approximative sound like:
"Inuaki: My inner Reptilian" by Aryana Havah.

Here is the blog of the author; she is a lady doctor, psychologist working with kids (in a petty googlish english translation):

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.lcsnet.ro%2Ftag%2Faryana-havah%2F&sl=ro&tl=en&history_state0=

It is, as all those stories, about a higher being that used to live on a planet called Inua, in constellation Orion.

Opposite with Ick's reptilians stories here is about something totally different. They are higher spiritual begins, called Inuaki, resembles humans, 2 metres tall, with a lizard look like tail, but have no scales just a smooth and velvety skin. They eat no meat, just plants, seeds and fruits that are planted on their own, nothing is wasted and everything is balanced on their planet, in accordance with respecting the laws of something called Matrix. The Matrix is a manifestation of the Divine will, like Holly Ghost look alike. Is acting as a database for all Energetically Emotion Forms, everything that a being is doing and thinking is stored there, in records specific that category based of a specific vibrationis frequency, etc.

This being reincarnated in a boy, called David, born in Romania and this David is revealing some extraordinary things, to a psychologist lady doctor, that has been brought to, by his mother. David, the Inuaki being, is reveling outstanding and mind boggeling things, about the Indigo children, the purpose of them being born on Earh, etc. about the God The Creator, the Matrix which govern all the 10 Universes, the shift we will be forced to pass through, etc. There are still other Inuaki being born on Earth, 3 in US, 2 in Germany, 1 in China, 1 in France, besides David, from Romania, totally 8 on Earth.

I d not want to waste your time too much, just this entity is bringing some interesting information, that has to do with our concerns here related with Radiant Zones.

So, Inuaki said that:
• Romania is the repository of a special kind of information and knowledge for the evolution and the benefit of the entire planet, located in Romanian mountains in Bucegi and Ceahlau (confirmed of many people of high emanating energy)
• Inuaki said there are some holographic projection in a form of pyramid with square base, with the purpose of protection, sending Energetic Thought Forms, for protection of Romania against some vicious attacks and for uplifting of the entire humanity
• That Romania has been the first place that emerged in this world after Creation (and that information is cross checked with a totally different other source)
• That the our firs ancestors lived here on that land, have been the first beings created on this Earth; from here they were spread on the entire planet
• That Romania is the only country that has 7 active chakras said similar as humans and same as the Earth has(California, South America, Australia, England, Egypt, Iran and Tibet)
• Inuaki have 10 chakra's, 7 similar as humans while 3 more above their head
• These chakra's are accompanied of energy fields, of different colors, look like concentric baloons one inside the other (hope I not make a mistake here as I'm not much in that kind of stuff)
• Also that Inuaki haven't have anymore Bioenergy fields as humans have, the had but transformed in some pure golden enery sphere
• Those 7 Romanian chakra's started be activated in 1986, with the maximum, in 2011
• Also that the Ancient Conscience of our Elders, will burst out with such a force that will ignite the hearts and conscience of the remaining survivors
• At world level will be problems related with water, or with water movements (he is not allowed to reveal exactly), while for Romania bad thing ahead: either very dire economic problems (and yes, I can confirm a coming Banking crash in connecting with IMF loan, recently) or an extreme devastating earthquake
• etc, etc

Just looking at this information as purely fictional, I have a desire to know what would be those water movements, that will devastating world, but leaving Romania untouched? (of course we will have our own part of "fun" in the planetary party, by earthquakes and economic destruction).

Could it be the gravitational pull, caused by a probable passing by celestial massive body that may affect rotation of Earth and pulling it to slow down, while the momentum of the rotating waters tends to flood the territories in some part, while in other will reveal the underwater ground?

Or this could be created by a massive meteorite impact causing a mega, giga tsunami which will propagate many thousands of KM?

Awaiting your thoughts?

Malletzky

07-26-2009, 02:38 PM

Actually, I was only intending to follow the lively discussion here on this thread...but at the end, I decided to participate with my own thougths, as I advance the view that we need to share our wisdom(s) as much as possible...

My honest opinion...and as allways, it comes from my heart...is that NO, we don't need any RZ or communities.

Why? Let me elaborate shortly...

I posted recently on the nexus thread my humble opinion that we, as humanity, that we've reached a kind of "point of no return". We are NOT able to continue our existance as we did during the last centuries...it's simply not enough any more...we've reached the limit of our spiritual resources, we need help!

So building RZ's or any communities is not the answer for our needs. This is, if you wish, a "point of return" to the old habbits, and once again, we all see what the present outcome is...we, the humans, or humanity, we just blowed the whole "show"...

I do not prepare to live in any RZ or community, this is NOT what I'm suppossed to do here and now, while on earth and during this life...This is the way how I feel, it is my OWN truth and my OWN feelings are the only one which guidance I trust...

I do NOT accept any rools, we have enough rools to deal with these days, you all know this well...which doesn't mean that I'm an anarchist...

The truth is, I prepare to exist (I deliberately didn't use the words live or life) in a "world" without any limitations !!!! So I will not bother with any rools, written or said...I will just live this one life now and today the best I can, in accordance with my hearth, full with love and respect for all that is. The existence I'm heading to is simple and don't need any rools. The AGENDA??? It's called

ABUNDANCE

Whatever we need, it's there...Yeah, I know, it sounds utopically, but you should know that this "world" of existance really exist...

By the way, You should know something about me, which I never ever presented here on avalon...you should know that since my childhood, I guess I must have been 8 or 9 years old when it started, I felt a very strong conection with the native Indians from northern America...I read so many books, learned so much about their life and their way of living in unity with the nature...I so much wanted to be born back at that times, before the europeans conquered the american continents...

So, altough I don't have any memories of any previous lives as an Indian, I would say that YES...if I have to choose to live my further life in any form of community, I woold only like to live in a community based on the rools of the native Indians.

Important: If any of you need the urge to build such communities, please do so! This is YOUR path, your assignment, let your heart guide you. I guess, I will not participate :original:.

with :wub2: and with respect

malletzky

artvision

07-26-2009, 02:53 PM

Malletzky

07-26-2009, 02:57 PM

Respecting your decision. Hope that this time they will not herding and entrapping us in concentration camp as last time..

If "they" intend to do that really, we will not need any RZ's or communities any more...

Wormhole

07-26-2009, 09:10 PM

As our manual is in printed form, it will take some time to type copy. Please be patient and I will have it as soon as I may.

Peace of Mind,
Wormhole

TtC

07-26-2009, 10:39 PM

I will be putting up more information on the TracetheCircle forum so I don't bog down this thread with general information. I will still answer questions here, but I think the more complicated ones be answered elsewhere. An FAQ will be made out of your questions.

This topic is more broad and vague and I don't want to take away from that, but feel free to still ask.

Carmen

07-26-2009, 11:19 PM

Hi all, now that peace seems to have settled on this thread once more, I would like to add my two cents worth. We talk about RZ as if they are about material things and communities, but really we are each a radiant zone. We resonate/vibrate, at a certain level and all around us, is us, vibrating at the same level. All those so-called 'others' are mere mirrors of us, of our attitudes. Those that emotional affect us are just showing us where we are at. What we project on to someone else, is us, disallowed, not owned!

When I first started waking up many of my friends were waking up also but some thought I was quite odd and after a while we would just drift away. Birds of a feather do flock together. There is no getting away from that. There is equality of life force and there is freewill as to what one does with that lifeforce, how it is expressed. Everyones lessons are unique to them. As people wake up and grow in consciousness all people and situations around them change and grow, or leave. That has been my experience my whole life. When I was unconscious and later when I became more conscious.

Having gone through many troublesome and difficult experiences to be where I am today, I would not have wanted anyone to 'rescue' me, to have shortcircated my learning. I am grateful for all I have learned for myself, by myself.

One is much more effective to others waking up and then providing an example of awakened consciousness for others to be inspired by, to learn from. Our personalities take a great 'humbling' to bring us to wisdom. No one gets to soul contact, inner contact without a humbleness of being.

Whatever attribute of another person we focus on, we bring to the surface. A person may have many negative qualities, (according to us) but, if we find and focus on the good (God) of that person, that is what comes forth for us. That is the attribute that grows. Whatever is not focused on and given attention to, atrophies, disappears.

Great leaders love, share, inspire, teach protect, not by rules, regulations or any sort of force but by the power of their presence.

Love and LIght

Carmen:wub2::wub2:

NorthernSanctuary

07-27-2009, 03:57 AM

Hi Carmen,

It's quite an experience when you first meet someone with that type of presence. I've met people like that too; the energy that hits you is very tangible and in a real sense, overwhelming. I don't doubt that you are thinking about Ramtha when you make that statement.

/NS

no caste

07-27-2009, 04:06 AM

[COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]By the way, You should know something about me, which I never ever presented here on avalon...

Dearest Malletzky - Thank you for sharing the whole of your thoughts. It sat with me on a deep level. Please check this thread and listen to "Starwalker."
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9511
LOVE

Carmen

07-27-2009, 04:08 AM

Yes, Ramtha would be such a leader but many others also. I have any sort of powerful leader in mind, even horses. A powerful leader doesnt necessarily have to "do' anything, he or she just "is". They radiate from themselves a powerful presence. One feels it and 'knows'

C

Northern Boy

07-27-2009, 04:30 AM

strong conection with the native Indians from northern America...I read so many books, learned so much about their life and their way of living in unity with the nature...I so much wanted to be born back at that times, before the europeans conquered the american continents...

I`m with you on this one Malletzky I feel that Connection as well google the word Star Warriors

artvision

07-27-2009, 06:56 AM

Good! Very good!

So what is the latest conclusion is that this issue for RZ preparation, at least as we are grasping it is a fuss... We just need to became humans, stay humans, in the purest sense and then the "Force" will be with us? That is as simple as that.

artvision

07-27-2009, 07:35 AM

Hi TtC,
I had the curiosity and went on your web page. The story of the TRACE THE CIRCLE I found it very profound.

Similar to you, at very early age, in my first years of school, I had encountered the first "existential" problem for me at that age.

I remember as of today that it was history class and that I answered very good at class and then another colleague answered but not so good. He needed often be helped by teacher, he was running in circles re-telling what he said again, in other words, for my colleagues I asked opinion and for me, was a mess. But the surprise come after, when teacher has been telling the marks as she was writing down in the log register. My colleague got 10 (from 1 to 10 marking system) and me 9. I felt so bad for that one, as when I went to teacher to write down my mark in my personal notebook (it was a special notebook pocket size as a small contact agenda, where the teachers writing down the notes and your parents must sign for acknowledgement). Asked her: Teacher why you gave me 9 and my colleague 10, when his presentation was worse than mine? She looked very shocked, such as how a small kid has the guts ask her about her decision, looked to me such thru a magnify glass and said: because he's dad is in the Parents Class Board and your parents are only workers. I was speechless. Went home and asked what is that? My parents explained me, that such and such parents, with higher hierarchy in society with "relations" and more money that can "help" the class get painted, or get waxed on their expense, etc, were populating that boards or counsels. And because the teacher should show somehow gratitude will recompensate by giving their children higher marks (at least that, by giving good marks, costed no money or other things).

And from that moment on, I was so marked by that inequity, that I felt that I have to fight with injustice and inequity in human society.
Not only that, but from that early age, I started to carefully watch the society make-up and the relations between humans.

So, TtC, I like this remark from your front page:

" Instead, you would gladly give up your freedom and rights to a small group of people who tell you they will act in your best interest, when, in fact, they do not."

Thus, in the radiant zone, I will not accept anything that pure democracy, I will not accept a minority to lead again, in some "boards" or something and whatever RZ I might participate in, will just be a free will cooperative of people "birds of same feather (as Carmen nicely put) with all people with equal rights and everything we decide or we construct the regulaments or guides, will be that from our own, not others. And that all of us build it together, just not someone might invoke he has more right than other because he invited us in his retreat. I would not want to feel as a guest, but rather a whole rights host!

And because of that, I do not want to foolishly trade the existent inequity society, that we live in, with another plagued same by inequity and injustice, but other sort.

TtC

07-27-2009, 08:40 AM

The thing about "pure democracy" is that it is a population dependent concept. I will only work with a certain amount of people. History has shown us that it breaks down at about three hundred people as does "pure anarchy" (a society without government, not the lawlessness/evil thing that a lot of people think of).

Pure democracy, in my mind, would mean that you vote on every single decision. If you have too many people in such a system, it may take you three days to decide what to have for lunch. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't think most people would sit around the entire day deciding what to do. The way we currently live, we vote someone into "power" and they are "supposed" to act in our best interest. They usually don't unless we complain a lot and then it is usually just a small compromise to make the masses be quiet. The issue is, there were never checks and balances put in place to curb the power. Canada's system was adopted from the already corrupt British and so was the United States', partially.

If I had to choose something that was semi-acceptable, I would pick the Swiss system. They have a plebiscite on nearly all major decisions within each Canton. That means all who wish to vote go out and vote. I'm not sure if such a system is manipulated, I am just saying that in theory it seems better than most.

Within small groups, pure democracy can work wonders provided no one argues. I have been told of situations where people argue about something and then while some are still arguing, another group just does what was being argued about. The arguing takes up time and energy and solves nothing. There needs to be agreements at the beginning to minimize or eliminate arguing, otherwise things can get very out-of-hand.

After three hundred people is a different matter.

The piece Artvision is alluding to is HERE (http://www.tracethecircle.com/index.php/trace-the-circle-the-story) if anyone wishes to read it.

artvision

07-27-2009, 09:23 AM

I'm reading more and more what this Inuaki being has to say.

He said that before 800,000 years ago (terrestrial) they were very primitive people (like us but thousand years ago).

And then, in that times another creature landed on their planet that were collected sample of mineral, water, also snatched 2 inuaki child with them.

After a while they have returned, being accompanied with a lot of inuaki-look-like beings, coming from those 2 children. The Inuaki looked up to this new visitors and the inuaki-look-like totally make them no worry. They veneered those space beings, such as we praise to our gods.

The visitor started to help the inuaki primitive society, teached them lots of things, gave them devices, help them to fight again other horrible creatures that lived in that seas and massacred the inuakies as many times they get out of waters.... In the end, the star comers, started a genetically program, designed to improve the local race, in order make them brighter to be able to use more sophisticated machineries and tools they brought on Inua planet. So they have good results, and after few thousand years, the race improved. The new guys were smarter, more able to use the visitor machines, and to digg up more minerals, gold and different issues that the visitors send to their planet for making spaceships, building etc. Also, to many of them have been added to their heads a special metal circles that the visitors make them wear. Said is make them safe against bad things. Though the genetic manipulations were accurate enough, not make inuakies too bright. After a while, some inuakies started to remove that metallic circles from their head and see nothing happened. Many more then removed that circles.

Everything was fine, until the inuakis observed that from time to time, some of their fellows gone missing. Nobody gave much thought until once, a inuaki did whiteness something very shockingly. That the visitors, snatched a inuaki, tied him up side down, conected two wires to that metallic circle from the victim head, wires went into a gigantic crystal. Then they make a cut at the victim throat collecting the blood. They took that blood and drink it. Then the victim was skinned and part from his body given for eat to the visitors. So much was the horrifying of the rest of inuaki that they decide to fight out these visitors. Later after that, they found out that crystal was charged with the feelings and emotions encountered during the dying process and because that were so strong, has been used such kind of food by the visitors, along with the blood and flesh. Something like a life energy which give them, the visitors, a boost like a drug.

The visitors then make a move like they leaving planet, but by trickery make themselves underground retreats where all stayied hidden. Through some local inuaki, which have more of their DNA from visitors, they did teach them how to take over the Inuaki society, by stealth, and be their spies. This operation succeeded so well that for thousands of years nobody believed anything. The spies, were acting in behalf of the hidden visitors, at their command poisoned the water and food of their fellows, with chemicals indicated by visitor, to keep them dumbed down.

The luck of the Inuakies has been that their planet vibrational energy start to be damaging the visitors, so they must leave planet of Inua, and that for good.

But that visitors find another planet to extract minerals and trash its resources. That planet was called EARTH. And that visitors coming from other stars were called anunnaki.

Those annunaki started the same pattern with the humans, adding inuaki DNA, just make good laborers and not too smart. later on, they added also anunnaki DNA, just to create some lineage breed, used for ruling and controlling the rest. This last lineage, had received strong warnings, not mix with others, just keep the lineage pure.

Same story as with Inua repeated on Earth, human looks to them as gods (the ancient Sumer), and then the annunaki just hidden in subterranean caves letting impresion they left the Earth. They secretly trained a part of their most DNA resemblance terranes, to be their spies into human society.
Because not all the humans have been been modified with Annunaki DNA, there still many with primitive ancestor DNA, added with inuaki DNA, while are of course, those with more annunaki DNA. The races, I might add, could be those of Cain and Abel (my humble remark, this is not of Inuaki)

The story repeated and up to now, the society is leaded though proxies, by hidden societies, royalty, religions (there is said the religions are made by them for easy ruling), then when the level of the awareness and vibrational level of the planet, woke up many, they resorted from religion to a corrupt science and education system, a dumbing down by chemicals in food, water, medicines and mainly vaccines and lately using some kind of waves (could be HAARP using radiant energy modulated with ELF waves, of evil, crimes, etc).
The most important thing, annunaki would not want humans to learn about, is that: HUMANAS are the most advanced creation of God, made trough Matrix means, humans have the prerogatives of God, as Imortality of their soul, Power of creation, etc. Our hidden rulers are afraid that if every man know that, then they cannot keep us in leash, by fear of disease, of death and by force of monetary system.

Said us: do not worry, the humans has not to do anything, that the Planet itself, mandated by the Universe Crator and its energies, will do that cleaning job. And just be credible said, that end of 2009/ begin 2010, the planetary monetary system will be down, never to come back again and not worry because is good like that, though he advised to easy passing these times till begin of 2012, when everything will be fine, would be nice to have a house on countryside, seeds and some tool, some stored food, just cope with the problems.

This being I read about, stated that even the people having much annunaki DNA in their genetic makeup, could be saved, if the Matrix(a tool of the God Creator) decide so, that the things were constructed so well, that there is no injustice or discrimination in the Created Universe; also stated that we humans have nothing to do, that everything is taken care and that is the first time in Universe, that the shift will preserve the people with EXISTENT PHYSICAL BODIES as it is, but unleashing some DNA changes which will improve us. So, said that many of us here, will be the whiteness to this strenuous but still marvelous process. (at Inuakies, their body suffered changes that of their before shift). bout the Earth shift, will be from 4th dimension as we have it now (3 coordinates +time) into the 5th dimension (whatever it will be that)

He said that the annunaki will go their way drawn by Creator, codiefied in Matrix database and good humans will remain only, at this planet and that the future will be bright and extraordinary, that the humans will live in harmony with animals and plants, even with stones (that have some self-awareness part, same as plants and animals) an the OVERALL vibration will be Love, a total and overwhelming love. Also he stated that in Universe there are two supreme forces or feelings, that of LOVE and that of HATE, there are no more others that couldn't be reduce to that two.

This is a nice and interesting story, as many as there are there. Maybe is just imagination, maybe is 80% true but urges we nothing to do, just make easy tasks for TPTB, maybe is 100%, who knows?

But wouldn't be on the safest side if we buit a RZ and if is like that then nothing is lost not a problem; but what we will do, if is not so nice as being depicted in that story and maybe others?

artvision

07-27-2009, 09:34 AM

The thing about "pure democracy" is that it is a population dependent concept. I will only work with a certain amount of people. History has shown us that it breaks down at about three hundred people as does "pure anarchy" (a society without government, not the lawlessness/evil thing that a lot of people think of).

Pure democracy, in my mind, would mean that you vote on every single decision. If you have too many people in such a system, it may take you three days to decide what to have for lunch. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I don't think most people would sit around the entire day deciding what to do.
....

After three hundred people is a different matter.

The piece Artvision is alluding to is HERE (http://www.tracethecircle.com/index.php/trace-the-circle-the-story) if anyone wishes to read it.

TtC, you have perfectly right, with the amount of people have to decide what to do, which way to go. Also sorry for forgetting mention the link when I was referring to your site.

As I never thought of a radiant zone of more than 20, max 30 families (meaning not more than 60-100 people), though the mundane jobs could be handled by some voted by majority as "RESPONSIBLE".

STOREKEEPER, G.I. JOE, DOC, INTEL GUY, FATHER OF THE LAND, HANDY MAN, CHEF, MASTER CRAFTSMAN, etc

These persons will coordinate the specific activities, but all the important, life/death decisions, will be taken by the democratic vote of majority.

The community leader must to exults the energy of leadership, he/she must be the most trusted and knowledgeable and his/her decision will be at own responsability when the situation require fast action.

Myplanet2

07-27-2009, 02:08 PM

artvision

07-27-2009, 02:51 PM

You can not "break" into the new, while residing in the old.

Multidimensionality is not easy to grasp until you experience it, at which point you cease attempting to grasp it.

Old paradigm thinking is "if this, then that". "first you this, then you that". That's linear 3D paradigm. The very same one which spawned "Top Down" organization. It has no imagination. It has no creativity. It has no spontaneity. It's "thought through". "figured out".

It's OLD, OLD, OLD. It's done. It's gone to meet it's maker. It is no more. It's shuffled off it's mortal coil. The fat lady sang up a storm.

You can't "organize" a radiant zone. If you are trying to do so, the joke is on you. Organized Radiant Zone is an oxymoron.

Let's plan this thing out, and watch nobody show up.

Undoubtedly, the results of such attempts will be better than, an improvement over, efforts to simply survive with "My Stuff and People" intact. That's just homo sapiens fear talking.

The lions share of the work involved in this evolution into 4th and 5th density, is all about letting go. It's in examining, honestly, what serves. And what serves not. Letting go of all the "trained in" ways of perceiving. We are waiting to burst forth from a cocoon of our own manufacture, one hard lesson, one regretted mistake, one will imposed, one submission to a "knows best", one sacrifice, at a time.

we are evolving into a reality where control and personal power are obsolete, and in a way that is obvious to all. Where we are headed, no few, control any many. It's not necessary, because we all know one another's hearts and minds.

If you stop now and take stock of what you perceived about others some few short years ago, and what you perceive now, you'll see how far along this path we've already come.

Organized Radiant Zones? As opposed to real Radiant Zones? That's like the difference between watching a life in a movie, and living one.

Dear Myplanet2,

Your words cannot go without touching a truthful and sensitive heart. I cannot argue with you in any of the senses, meaning nor agree nor dissenting as long a human being, that I know (or me), never experienced a dimensional shift or never been there in the new to come, or which maybe existing now in a parallel universe or in the Thought of the Universe. Because our being is not grasping yet this high knowledges, we are still chained in the old Paradigm.

What need to contradict you (see this 3D human desire of contradicting, which is raised by non knowing priori what will be), at least as concept level is that nothing in Universe cannot happened in an instant. In advanced physics and electronics, there is not existing in reality the Signal Puls, which should be vertical perfectly in the graphs. In reality these cannot be accomplished because the speed of variation cannot be infinite. At least in the nature we can grasp and quantize. But then I heard reading esoteric sources stories that even people when dead, there is not instant. There is still a period of 3 days time when the so called "soul" is like the software that handled the hardware of the body, is first leaving the hands, then the feet, then hearth and concentrate in spinal cord and then it leaves the material body.

Judging so, by this and also by scientific issues, we can say dead, not-so-dead and completely dead. :mfr_lol:

This why, I think the conscience shift must be gradually, not suddenly (cannot variate in time=0, perfectly), because that would lead to some enormous instabilities and troubles and against physics to an infinite amount of energy. Even the wormholes are consuming extraordinary high amount of energy, can be calculated by the size of the hole, but still is finite!

Remaining the concept of shifting in other dimension if can be counted instanly in the first universe system of reference-referential system of universe from where we left, may only then could be instant, I don't know, but that is just a technicality, that God will easily sort it out. Whatever I'm say is that I believe that we need a period of preparations then is happening the shift, and those unable will not make it. Who knows or who can illustrate this things, or better who can pass you though that things?

I am highly appreciated your words, excuse my lack of: ability, knowledge, living experience of such things, for what will come.

I give a more profound though of what you said. So are you stating that we should modify ourselves on our inside, then became as a radiant Zone, not physically construct one, because that part will be taken care by God, if we ARE as he wishes us to be?
That's meaning we should work on our thoughts, on our feelings, on our consciens, to do and emanate positivity and don't worry, the rest is taken care? You should want us to leave the old mentality of Oh may God, what I'm going to do? I need to do this retreat, I do need store this provisions, so and so. That are you stating, MyPlanet2?

Hope I wasn't so confusing, but also for me these things not very clear.

Myplanet2

07-27-2009, 03:28 PM

Artvision. I see your heart. You are so far along already.

There is nothing coming. It's already here. the shift has been taking place for several years already, and it'll be all over by the end of 2012.

The idea of instantaneous depends on the existence of linear time. Since linear time does not exist in fact, and since we must create the view that it does constantly, we need simply choose to view differently.

In multidimensional reality, there is only now. and everything which we try to stretch out into the past and future, including all the infinite variations we constantly shift between, exist now. Everything is now, and we simply choose our participation.

We are creative. The universe supports our creation. We choose what to have manifest, and the universe provides it.

But most of our creative aspects exist outside of time, so if we try to analyze from within this "placed Viewpoint", it seems not to be so. We say I want riches manifested, or I want peace. Since the concept "now" is irrelevant unless seen in context of "then", that peace and riches could manifest any-when.

Multi dimensional ideas don't translate into tri dimensional paradigm.

Mind doesn't lead to multidimensional existence, heart does.

And science is making the leap too, in a way. Listen to Kerry's interview with Ananda Bosman.

http://www.americanfreedomradio.com/Project_Camelot_09.html

Oliver

07-27-2009, 03:31 PM

Thanks to the Myplanet2 and Maletzky`s approach we now entered a paradox, and this is very good: from one side it shows that this discussion is profound, and from the other one shows how all of the manifestations of the 3D reality have their own paradoxes in it’s very essence; the “truth” becomes multileveled and even impossible to reach as “one for all”, cognitive insights cross themselves, breaking each other, everything is relativised.
These are the borders of 3D, it is limited, we all get to this point, day by day. Paradoxes show us these limitations, and push us toward higher reality. Paradoxes are blessed.
Yes, there is no possibility to create a perfect radiant zone or community in terms of 3D. Yes, it is very valuable right to think that that RZ will not be needed…or allowed. And yes, I am not sure should I personally participate to some RZ or community. I believe that some kind of organized life can be taken only as a TRANSITIONAL model. I proposed one draft, and used the term anarchy, among all. Anarchy means higher level of conscious among the members of society, so they must not be governed in purpose to behave socially acceptable. Conscious is the first word for every kind of anarchistic approach (but also it is a kind of rule “to have no rules”, which is a paradox par exellance). Thus, anarchy is on the very border of 3D reality with higher forms of life organization that are not known to us, and anarchy substantially makes the leadership and ownership – two basic manifestations of the ego in this reality - worthless. Egoism, personal and collective (national or corporative, for example) is destroying this planet. Every evil has the egoism as its source. Anarchy means destroying the ego, smashing it!
At the end, it is simply - there is something named CHOICE. Or FREE WILL. They are multidimensional and because of that, together with consciousness and love, are most valuable gift that life form can have. People can choose how and with whom they will leave, how they will prepare themselves…for the unknown!

Respect

Myplanet2

07-27-2009, 04:12 PM

And speaking of paradox, I began to learn of 3d limitations not by "progressing" from here to there. (very 3D view) But by catching Multi D pointers from those who've restored their multidimensionality or never locked their awareness of it away in the first place.

When they speak, it is timeless. The Ground crew handbooks have that quality. open them anywhere, and you'll read something relevant to right now.

When these higher dimensional entities (often collectives) talk about what reality is like for them, and how it differs from what we experience, and especially in the case of those beings who, like us, took the dive down into 3D, foregoing in the process all knowledge and memory of who they are and what their capabilities are, and then working their way back home, as we are in the process of doing, and also describing the journey they took on the way back to their multidimensional home, The oneness of infinite love and compassion, then we can gleen clues about where we're headed, and we are able to shift back into the multi dimensional. They describe how things are, just beyond what we currently permit ourselves to see. If we then take the cue and look for ourselves, we shift, and see differently from there on.

The paradox for me, was that I couldn't get the idea of linear until I saw multi again. I made the leap and worked backwards from there. Backwards time, if you will.

And then it got interesting. I'm now looking over the blockages I placed in 3D, which impede my awareness in mulit D. So far, I've discovered that I was completely and happily deluding myself as to what the various significances of this and other lives have been. I can now see the higher aspect of myselves hands in there, stirring the pot, dropping challenges in my way, providing synchronistic lessons with conundrum qualities, permitting me to encounter events where I was hurt, joyful, and anything else on the multi dimensional chalk board.

And further paradox, is that I see when looking from my higher aspect consciousness, that I know all these lessons fully, yet in my 3D aspect, the lessons continue in full 3D density. Would my higher aspect Know what it knows outside of time, and be able to guide me as it does, if I was not learning it here and now in 3D?

Paradox indeed.

jazzgad

07-27-2009, 07:51 PM

Hi there
I m not the sharpest tool in the box but when Universe is bent to tell me something
I will eventually get it .
Yesterday driving to vacation place with my family ,place (Warren Dunes ,MI) where I m almost every year
By way of some kind of spacey mind I lost myself 4 times taking instead of East directions
The West way ….I could not explain it yesterday, today it seams that I need to head West .
It is time
,so I have been treading water for last
2,3 years staying in the middle of current in the river of life but
not exerting myself ether .( after 8 years in massage therapy field last two working as a
care giver for an elderly with Alzheimer ) but it is time to forget the perks of having one of the last
steady jobs and leave the big city of Chicago before not in the middle of SHTF

if there is radiant zone west of Chicago ( probably way West )
that have space for me my wife and new born baby
(due date is in 3 weeks ) please let me know ,I will work hard in your community
For the room and food and safety of like minded creating positive vibrations human beings
That are becoming a new multidimensional species faster and faster everyday.

JesterTerrestrial

07-27-2009, 08:38 PM

There is nothing coming. It's already here. the shift has been taking place for several years already, and it'll be all over by the end of 2012.

We are creative. The universe supports our creation. We choose what to have manifest, and the universe provides it.

:thumb_yello:

MY RADIENT ZONE IS GAIA!

THE WHOLE PLANET EARTH NEEDS TO HEAL!

NOT JUST A SELECT FEW! ALL OF EVERYONE!

HIDE OUT IN THE OPEN!!!
PEACE JT

TtC

07-27-2009, 08:39 PM

Jazzgad:

I have one in progress in Montana. Contact me if you want more info. Also look at the Proposal (http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15664) post first.

artvision

07-27-2009, 10:39 PM

Quote from:
http://www.survivalblog.com/2009/07/a_multiple_family_retreat_less.html

==============================================
In hindsight, we should have:

1. Developed a project plan that listed all of the projects, broken down by tasks, assigned priorities, and most importantly, had sufficient resources allocated to them.

2. Defined up front who does what, when & how, and who pays for what. It should also include consequences for failure to live up to expectations.

3. Agreed upon a code of conduct with everyone pledging to uphold it. Even to the point of having everyone sign a symbolic contract.

4. Had a formal schedule with built in breaks (rotating weekends off or something).

5. Had everyone on the same page as to the sense of urgency. Nothing gets done if everyone has different ideas of how important what you’re doing is.

Lastly, the most important lesson learned. Preparedness doesn’t come in a box. It comes from hard work, from getting your hands dirty, and teaching yourself new skills. There’s a lot of trial and error and the important thing is to not give up even when everyone around you is letting you down. Preparedness comes from time. Time learning and practicing. While this experience has been a complete failure, at least we learned what not to do as we plan out our next attempt.

Thank the Lord that my family still believes in me and what we need to do. Wish us luck.

artvision

07-28-2009, 09:12 AM

Dears,

I finalized to read that book, I told about a few post before, that of the Inuaki being that have been born in a Romanian child called David and is brought to a child shrink by his mother.

And that child telling a number of mind boggling things, not only that, but to convince he is who says it is, is telling to the lady shrink what happened at her home in some intimate moments of hers, that nobody could have known or find out. The doctoress is really touched and impressed of the advanced knowledges of 5 years boy.

So, in the final, he told that Romania has a spiritual mission for the entire world, that here the Al Mighty God decided the Second coming, and the child has been allowed to say that there is already an old man, who's job is that of John the Baptist, in the sense of announcing and that the God Being will enter into the body of an already existing person living in Romania and that is set, when God entering in that person is entering simultaneously in many other people.

Of course, this kind of informations cannot be considered as proofs nor judged same way. For this one someone should feel with his heart and I'm scared, that if it will be truth, what great responsability is on our head.

And to be sincere, we are not the purest, not most correct or other such qualities on the Earth. It has been said that for the sake of the ancestors (not because of us, I'm relieved)

I do not know what to think of that story, but something strange I sometime can feel. I observed something very strange (guys I'm a feet on earth guy, you could noticed, by exact lists I made, etc) I observed last spring when walking to the park that it was a smell coming from heaven, the birds were chirping and the pigeons were coming to me! Really they weren't afraid, I could've c by my hand I would want that. Never they came close to people in that spot, because they are somehow wild. Another places total wild field sparrows and magpies that are wild birds come near to me, like to touch them, weren't afraid anymore, and that was a sensation of warmth and emotional vibration as the nature was surrounding me. I didn't feel that form the 1989 revolution, when in the middle of January the tree have been blossomed. In my country and town it is quite cold in winter, snowing etc.

Really I do not know what is that?

NorthernSanctuary

07-28-2009, 10:43 AM

http://www.survivalblog.com/2009/07/a_multiple_family_retreat_less.html

Good post to learn from.

Luminari

07-28-2009, 11:24 AM

Hi everyone, sorry to come in at such a late stage to this thread.

For anyone interested here is the site for the community american Ivan Stein (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=12271&highlight=stein) is setting up in the Australian Outback (near Alice Springs):
http://timeline2012.org/page/overview-1

Phase I includes the following:

1) Acquisition of a facility in Australia which is large enough to support the living and working environment for the planning and development efforts.

2) Interview and selection of the core committee members.

3) Committee members are relocated to the planning and development facility.

4) These members and/or their families embody the beliefs and lifestyle that are the foundation for the entire Timeline 2012 community project.

5) Life at this facility is a communal environment with everyone living and working under the same roof.

6) These members are assigned to various committees based on their interest and expertise in the planning and development process.

7) The committees establish all plans and guidelines for the community including: a development plan; lists of items to be purchased; and are ultimately responsible for overseeing and implementing the development plan.

8) The planning phase for the Timeline 2012 community is projected to be completed in early 2010.

If you haven't seen Ivan's Positive Manifestation Workshops (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5277732254464846198) you are in for a treat. :thumb_yello:

My uncle was going to sell his house and join this community until he found out that he couldn't bring his beloved dog + cat (he used to own a pet store).
So there are many rules that you need to agree to in this situation, may suit some people but not everyone.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'd also like to recommend watching some DVDs from (editor of the Ringing Cedars Of Russia books english translations) Dr Leo Sharashkin.

I have all of these ones and they are excellent:

Reconnecting to Nature through Spiritual Permaculture

Ancient Roots, Modern Shoots:
Seeing your Natural Environment as an Extension of Your Self

Creating Your Space of Love: The Road Home

The Return of Anastasia

http://www.ringingcedars.com/store/:thumb_yello:

giovonni

07-28-2009, 02:00 PM

From Luminari
"I'd also like to recommend watching some DVDs from (editor of the Ringing Cedars Of Russia books english translations) Dr Leo Sharashkin.

I have all of these ones and they are excellent:

Reconnecting to Nature through Spiritual Permaculture

Ancient Roots, Modern Shoots:
Seeing your Natural Environment as an Extension of Your Self

Creating Your Space of Love: The Road Home

The Return of Anastasia"

Greeting's Luminari,
Its good too hear and see> of examples of radiant zone community development in the DownUnder!

And thank you > on your excellent (as always) books, articles, videos (DVD's), and link suggestions!

Especially the Anastasia book and {all} the Ringing Cedars series :thumb_yello:

giovonni

07-28-2009, 02:18 PM

http://www.survivalblog.com/2009/07/a_multiple_family_retreat_less.html

Good post to learn from.

Thank you NorthernSantuary,
This is an important (timely) post with very valuable insights~ and the blog has an extremely > valuable link connection http://www.survivalblog.com/links.html
to lots of info for preparing and creating a sanctuary zone!!!

Swanny

07-29-2009, 05:07 PM

I really have had enough of life in england, I have many skills from blacksmithing to plumbing but no money.
If anyone needs me just let me know, it's time for me to leave england :original:

burgundia

07-29-2009, 05:10 PM

I really have had enough of life in england, I have many skills from blacksmithing to plumbing but no money.
If anyone needs me just let me know, it's time for me to leave england :original:

I am thinking swanny, i am thinking.....but all the pipes in my apartment are still working ....:lol3:

Swanny

07-29-2009, 05:40 PM

Would prefer somewhere nice and warm :original:
Does Poland have a summer?? :naughty:

burgundia

07-29-2009, 05:46 PM

Would prefer somewhere nice and warm :original:
Does Poland have a summer?? :naughty:

does Uk have any season except the rainy season...?:naughty:

Swanny

07-29-2009, 06:52 PM

We used to have hot dry summers but I think they have made them wet to reduce the vit D we get so that we all catch the flu easier :thumbdown:

burgundia

07-29-2009, 10:09 PM

We used to have hot dry summers but I think they have made them wet to reduce the vit D we get so that we all catch the flu easier :thumbdown:

I'm sending you some sunshine from Poland. Not that we have too much but I am willing to share it with you....:original: To your health! cheers!

Swanny

07-30-2009, 09:35 AM

Thx I did see the sun poke out from behind a cloud for a second :original:
I'll send it back to you :original:

burgundia

07-30-2009, 11:30 AM

Thx I did see the sun poke out from behind a cloud for a second :original:
I'll send it back to you :original:
Please don't! we have over 30 degrees here today!!!

Cosmic Dancer

08-02-2009, 02:05 AM

It's great to find such a great thread on a topic that is so close to my heart! Thank you Mudra for starting it.

I came to Avalon to connect with like-mided people and contribute in the creation and development of a community living according to the principles of a higher consciousness. My passion is to wholeheartedly give of myself to the realization of a new paradigm of living dedicated to peace, self-responsibility, loving compassion and good will. All the while, developing my mind and will to reach my highest potential along with other fellow members.

I fully realize that the grand task at hand will require a lot of hard work, perseverance and a willingness to meet new challlenges while holding steadfast to a highly evolved attitude through it all. I trust that all the necessary people, places, things, times and events are manifesting in perfect harmony because the purpose and intention of this mission are of the highest order. I know the quality of my thoughts, words, actions and intentions manifest my reality.

I believe it is wise and prudent to make appropriate preparations for the coming changes of the great Shift. However, I do not merely want to survive... indeed, I wish to thrive and expand along with fellow members of the new Consciousness of Unity and Love. My gaze and vision are fixed upon the goal... I am much more excited and lit up by the unlimited possibilities awaiting the fully realized being in the next level of our evolution. It is indeed a privilege and an honor to be a part of the creation process of a new society based on the highest principles of love, unity, peace and mutual empowerment.

I am grateful to Avalon and its members for the bounty of information, resources and encouragement that is found here!

With much love and respect,
--Cosmic Dancer :original:

NorthernSanctuary

08-02-2009, 01:05 PM

One of the areas I was looking into was waste treatment; an area that can't be avoided. With a scenario where rain is almost continuous after a shift, the septic fields will be saturated and not of much use. Here's some compost systems that I look at:

Most of the commercial ones are aerobic and need good air circulation (need vent/fan). There are many that have internet complains that it doesn't work! that would make a real big mess! Sometimes it's because they are overloaded.

This one uses a drum that requires rotation once in a while, and the dried compost must be regularly taken out. This is one of two that is certified:
http://www.sun-mar.com/prod_flush.html

This next company is well recognized and has a lot of commercial installations. A liquid waste is produced that can be used as a fertilizer. The solid waste needs to be taken out on an infrequent basis. The tanks are tall, which means that it is not feasible to have this on the first floor.
http://www.clivusmultrum.com/

Some installations:
NYC:
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.3&thid=122318afd8952172&mt=application%2Fpdf&pli=1

Vancouver University:
http://www.clivusmultrum.com/proj_greenbuilding_choi.shtml

Here's the one that I was interested in. It's based in Sweden and is the cofounder of clivusmultum. I see it as an improved design. It claims solids need only to be removed 3-5 times over 100 years. It's about 3 feet high, so can be installed for the first floor. The compost is a liquid that can be used as fertilizer like the above. It doesn't export, but I'm trying to make a licensing arrangement with the person. If any community is interested, let me know, as it may help to get a license. (He sells it in Europe).
http://www.compostera.com/

Myplanet2

08-02-2009, 01:45 PM

Hi NorthernSanctuary.

A couple of things come to mind. First from George Greens site. I haven't looked into it too much, but it might be worth a look.

http://www.nomorehoaxes.com/the-community.html

I also came across this after listening to Kerry's interview with Ananda Bosman.

http://magnecules.com/Magnegas-Refineries.html

http://www.magnegas.com/

This is described as being a very good recycler of waste, and even has claims that radioactive waste can be made harmless. This system appears to have amazing potential towards self sufficiency.

Vidya Moksha

08-02-2009, 03:28 PM

One of the areas I was looking into was waste treatment; an area that can't be avoided.
Hi Northern Sanctuary,
I have designed and built a number of dry compost toilets and I can't imagine too many situations where they would not work well (flooding being the only potential problem).
It is always best if you have some land free and can build a purpose built structure to house the toilet, but this is not essential.
I have seen a number of installations fitted inside houses that also work very well (and you dont need the complication or expense of a commercially built unit - anything designed around a bucket will work perfectly well!).
The main issue is to separate solid waste from urine. Its best not to collect urine but to pipe it directly to plants/ garden / waste pipe. There are several viable strategies for separating the two.
Most people produce a small matchbox sized amount of solid waste per day once the water has been removed, its surprising how little space you actually need.
To give an idea, i built 2 waste collection areas, 1 cubic metre each. It would take 6-8 people a year (with toilet paper) to fill one cube, then switch to the other bin for a year. After year 2, the first bin could be emptied by hand, just fresh smelling compost ready for the garden.
In terms of smell, wood ash is perfect. Reduces ALL odour and adds phosphate to the compost. I have never known a smell issue with a toilet where most urine is separated, and wood ash is used. And some urine can be included in the mix, especially of toilet paper is used (and the ash soaks more liquid.)
My suggestion: keep it simple, keep it cheap and keep it dry.
om shanti
VM

NorthernSanctuary

08-02-2009, 07:25 PM

Thanks for the info, planet2 and Vidya, could be useful. I'm aware of the problem mentioned about the flooding in the spring, because I noticed that went the soil gets saturated, the water in the ground can back up and flood the septic tank. Really the septic system is obsolete because quite often, it pollutes the ground.

Vidya, the simple system you mention works, but the people are still use to the convenience of indoor plumbing, so I'm trying to come up with a solution for that if possible.

The link to magnegas also triggers me to lok into the manure biogas processor, which would also provide methane for cooking. This may turn out to be the best solution, because it still provides the convenience of indoor plumbing, and there is gas for cooking and compost also for the vegetables after due process.

Some links for people interested:

An overview report:
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:BaUjIv_E0WcJ:www.communitycompost.o rg/news/Community%2520Biogas%2520Gell.doc+sintex+digester+ usa&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari

Info to build (it's also a lot cheaper than the commercial ones):
http://www.ruralcostarica.com/biogas.html
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/MethaneDigesters/MD3.html

Unified Serenity

08-02-2009, 07:31 PM

Hi Northern Santuary,

This may sound ignorant, but would there be some odd smell cooking with methane?