Freedom What does it mean?

[micjer]

http://homestead.tumblr.com/


Is this freedom??

Inheritance Tax
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax



"We come into this world with nothing but you got to pay to leave, that aint Freedom to me"

[waitinginthewings]

http://homestead.tumblr.com/


Is this freedom??

Inheritance Tax
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Dog License Tax
Excise Taxes
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax
Gross Receipts Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory Tax
IRS Interest Charges
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Personal Property Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Service Charge Tax
Social Security Tax
Road Usage Tax
Sales Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
School Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Non-recurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax



"We come into this world with nothing but it sure costs alot to leave, that aint Freedom to me"

Inheritance tax in the list twice: What I find annoying is, everytime we by a home we pay tax, if we sell that home, we pay it again, sme with cars, etc. we pay a special tax......thats double dipping, tripple dipping. That should be outlawed.

[micjer]

We'll change the second Inheritance tax to Carbon Tax!

It is pretty sickening when you list them all.

[orthodoxymoron]

Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

free·dom
Pronunciation: \ˈfrē-dəm\
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1: the quality or state of being free: as a: the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b: liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence c: the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous <freedom from care> d: ease, facility <spoke the language with freedom> e: the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken <answered with freedom> f: improper familiarity g: boldness of conception or execution h: unrestricted use <gave him the freedom of their home>
2 a: a political right b: franchise, privilege
synonyms freedom, liberty, license mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. freedom has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated <freedom of the press>. liberty suggests release from former restraint or compulsion <the released prisoner had difficulty adjusting to his new liberty>. license implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom <freedom without responsibility may degenerate into license>.

[micjer]

Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

free·dom
Pronunciation: \ˈfrē-dəm\
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1: the quality or state of being free: as a: the absence of necessity, coercion, or constraint in choice or action b: liberation from slavery or restraint or from the power of another : independence c: the quality or state of being exempt or released usually from something onerous <freedom from care> d: ease, facility <spoke the language with freedom> e: the quality of being frank, open, or outspoken <answered with freedom> f: improper familiarity g: boldness of conception or execution h: unrestricted use <gave him the freedom of their home>
2 a: a political right b: franchise, privilege
synonyms freedom, liberty, license mean the power or condition of acting without compulsion. freedom has a broad range of application from total absence of restraint to merely a sense of not being unduly hampered or frustrated <freedom of the press>. liberty suggests release from former restraint or compulsion <the released prisoner had difficulty adjusting to his new liberty>. license implies freedom specially granted or conceded and may connote an abuse of freedom <freedom without responsibility may degenerate into license>.

People that think they are free should read the true definition of the word.

License implies freedom specially granted.


You are free only if we tax you first and "allow" you to be.

[Seashore]

It is interesting to see a list of them all.

I guess we have to have government thus we have to have tax to fund it. But if we could get rid of corruption in politics by outlawing political contributions and lobbying and have tax-payer funded primaries and elections, then we could have sane taxation, because we the people would be in charge.

[orthodoxymoron]

It is interesting to see a list of them all.

I guess we have to have government thus we have to have tax to fund it. But if we could get rid of corruption in politics by outlawing political contributions and lobbying and have tax-payer funded primaries and elections, then we could have sane taxation, because we the people would be in charge.

The majority of our tax dollars seem to be funding corrupt, wasteful, dangerous, and unnecessary projects. We seem to be funding our own enslavement. We need a minimalist government. Presently...we have just the opposite. The Federal Reserve needs to go. This will probably happen after the Fed is properly and retroactively audited. The people have a right to know where each and every tax dollar has gone...since 1913. Where are the Fed's tax returns? But this may be a Pandora's Box of black projects and corrupt finance. It may reveal some very upsetting information...which could shake the country to it's foundation. Still...the truth needs to be revealed. All of it. Call it disclosure.

Political contributions and lobbying are expressions of free speech...but corruption is rampant. How do we get rid of bribery and blackmail? How about taxpayer funded weekly televised political advertisements and debates throughout the year...and not just during election years? Wouldn't this level the playing field...and put the crooks and charlatans in the hot seat? The political contributions and lobbying by We The People should dwarf the feeble efforts of the crooks and banksters. Sorry guys.

[Seashore]

...Political contributions and lobbying are expressions of free speech...

The Supreme Court ruled that about political contributions. I don't know whether they've ever ruled that about lobbying...

But I disagree.

And I believe the only way we will ever clean up government is to outlaw them.

If we don't take the money out of politics we can't win. And there is no need for lobbyists. All communication should be at public hearings where people should be invited to give testimony of their knowledge of issues that are in the public interest, which include corporate interests that affect the economy. Only citizens should be able to contact their representatives in the Legislature. CEOs of corporations are also citizens so they can get their say as citizens just like the rest of us.

[orthodoxymoron]

The Supreme Court ruled that about political contributions. I don't know whether they've ever ruled that about lobbying...

But I disagree.

And I believe the only way we will ever clean up government is to outlaw them.

If we don't take the money out of politics we can't win. And there is no need for lobbyists. All communication should be at public hearings where people should be invited to give testimony of their knowledge of issues that are in the public interest, which include corporate interests that affect the economy. Only citizens should be able to contact their representatives in the Legislature. CEOs of corporations are also citizens so they can get their say as citizens just like the rest of us.

So...your definition of freedom does not include the freedom to financially support individuals and organizations who I agree with? And...your definition of freedom does not include the freedom to hire an expert on a particular issue to meet privately with my elected representatives?

[Seashore]

So...your definition of freedom does not include the freedom to financially support individuals and organizations who I agree with?

My comment refers to candidates for the House, Senate, and President.

What individuals and organizations are you talking about?


And...your definition of freedom does not include the freedom to hire an expert on a particular issue to meet privately with my elected representatives?

So you were talking about representing individual taxpayers when you used the word "lobbyist"?

Usually people mean representing corporations when they use the word lobbyist. And of course, that's what I was talking about.

If political contributions are outlawed and only people or agents of people, meet with representatives, that should suffice to clean up government.

[orthodoxymoron]

My comment refers to candidates for the House, Senate, and President.

What individuals and organizations are you talking about?



So you were talking about representing individual taxpayers when you used the word "lobbyist"?

Usually people mean representing corporations when they use the word lobbyist. And of course, that's what I was talking about.

If political contributions are outlawed and only people or agents of people, meet with representatives, that should suffice to clean up government.

For example: Ron Paul, and Campaign for Liberty. I would like to be able to continue to support Ron Paul. Both individuals and corporations should be able to pay an expert to properly represent their situation to a representative...in say...a 15 minute time slot. Would your proposed solution prevent money from flowing under the table? The crooks would just laugh...and change their strategy slightly...and continue their bribery and blackmail. My proposed solution of free airtime in the form of weekly debates and advertisement...would make the current corrupt deep pockets much less influential with easily swayed politicians. We the people would outspend the crooks by a wide margin. We the people also need to study our patooties off...so that we are not fooled by clever one liners...and so we are not confused by political mumbo jumbo. We the people make it way too easy for the crooks and outlaws.

When political contributions are outlawed...only outlaws will make political contributions.

[Seashore]

For example: Ron Paul, and Campaign for Liberty. I would like to be able to continue to support Ron Paul.

You're describing the status quo. Good candidates won't need support from the grassroots because they would not be in a struggle for access to the media.

Exclusively taxpayer-funded media for candidates to give their platforms to the people is all they need; it's all we need.

Both individuals and corporations should be able to pay an expert to properly represent their situation to a representative...in say...a 15 minute time slot.

Corporations all have an individual who is associated with them. If it's a legitimate issue for the public good the individual can take care of it.

Would your proposed solution prevent money from flowing under the table?

Is any system perfect?

You're basically arguing to keep things the way they are except add more media to what we have already.


My proposed solution of free airtime in the form of weekly debates and advertisement...


Weekly taxpayer-funded debates and advertisements is overkill. A truly free press, which should be a by-product of getting the money out of politics, should be sufficient to make our system work according to the Constitution.

The mess originates from money. We have to get at the cause to have a solution.

[orthodoxymoron]

You're describing the status quo. Good candidates won't need support from the grassroots because they would not be in a struggle for access to the media.

Exclusively taxpayer-funded media for candidates to give their platforms to the people is all they need; it's all we need.



Corporations all have an individual who is associated with them. If it's a legitimate issue for the public good the individual can take care of it.



Is any system perfect?

You're basically arguing to keep things the way they are except add more media to what we have already.



Weekly taxpayer-funded debates and advertisements is overkill. A truly free press, which should be a by-product of getting the money out of politics, should be sufficient to make our system work according to the Constitution.

The mess originates from money. We have to get at the cause to have a solution.

What does the Constitution and Bill of Rights have to say about all of the above? Did you say on another thread that we should not focus on the Constitution? Does your proposed solution flow from an increase in freedom...or a restriction of freedom? Freedom...what does it mean?

[Seashore]

...Did you say on another thread that we should not focus on the Constitution?...

Refresh my memory. What was the context in which this was stated?

[orthodoxymoron]

Refresh my memory. What was the context in which this was stated?

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9368&highlight=constitution+seashore&page=8

orthodoxymoron: The U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...in a plain and simple reading...as intended by it's authors...is reflective of Responsible Freedom. The issue is Freedom vs Tyranny. I don't want to be a slave or a master. I don't want to rule over the reptilians and greys...and I don't want them to rule over me. I have done my research...and the United States and the U.S. Constitution have been badly subverted, undermined, ignored, targeted, sabotaged, etc, etc. The rest of the world may need to step up to the plate for the cause of responsible freedom. They may need to voluntarily adopt the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...and just say NO to the NWO. Better Dead Than Rep.

seashore: I've been thinking a lot about the Constitution and I'm realizing that without an enforcement mechanism, it's worthless. Maybe it's a mistake to focus on the document itself, as beautiful as that document is...

othodoxymoron: What would you suggest as an enforcement mechanism? Perhaps George W. Bush was right when he said that the Constitution was 'just a G**D*** piece of paper.' What would you suggest that we focus on? I understand what you are saying...but I'd like to hear you elaborate.

seashore: I'm thinking we need to focus on healing ourselves, worldwide, like what is discussed in this thread. Maybe, if a critical mass of people who are self-reliant is reached, everything else will fall into place.

orthodoxymoron: Should we let the New World Order just happen...while we heal ourselves? What should the German people have done in the 1930's? Should Hitler and the Third Reich have been actively resisted...or should the people have focused on healing themselves? How about both? Anarchy and Self-Centeredness will ultimately result in Tyranny aka The New World Order. Some say that we are here in this mess because we chose to be. Some say that bad things happen to people because they have a victim mentality. So...did the holocaust victims(and all WWII victims) bring the atrocities upon themselves? Self reliance and personal responsibility are extremely important...but reigning in and punishing the bad-guys is equally important. There has to be a central document which provides a legal foundation for a central benchmark concept. Otherwise...we build upon shifting sand.

[Seashore]

orthodoxymoron: The U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...in a plain and simple reading...as intended by it's authors...is reflective of Responsible Freedom. The issue is Freedom vs Tyranny. I don't want to be a slave or a master. I don't want to rule over the reptilians and greys...and I don't want them to rule over me. I have done my research...and the United States and the U.S. Constitution have been badly subverted, undermined, ignored, targeted, sabotaged, etc, etc. The rest of the world may need to step up to the plate for the cause of responsible freedom. They may need to voluntarily adopt the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...and just say NO to the NWO. Better Dead Than Rep.

seashore: I've been thinking a lot about the Constitution and I'm realizing that without an enforcement mechanism, it's worthless. Maybe it's a mistake to focus on the document itself, as beautiful as that document is...

Okay. I was focusing on the use of time and energy in these troubled times.

Which thread was it?

Anyway, this thread is about taxes and then I made a comment about the necessity for government and taxes to support the government...

[orthodoxymoron]

Okay. I was focusing on the use of time and energy in these troubled times.

Which thread was it?

Anyway, this thread is about taxes and then I made a comment about the necessity for government and taxes to support the government...

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9368&highlight=constitution+seashore&page=8

[Seashore]

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9368&highlight=constitution+seashore&page=8

I see.

Okay.

Do you still think we need to allow campaign contributions?

[orthodoxymoron]

Frankly...if most of the money could be removed from the election process...that would be fine with me. I'm just trying to be pragmatic...and recognize how corrupt money can flow around rules and regulations. Actually...the internet may make this whole discussion moot. People may rely less and less on newspapers and television...and get most of their information from a wide variety of sources on the internet. Two years ago...I subscribed to the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times...and I had a television. Now I have none of the above...and I don't miss them a bit. Electronic Town Meetings...like Ross Perot proposed...will probably become the norm. The internet may be the best friend of We the People...if 'they' don't heavily censor it...or shut it down completely.

[Seashore]

...Electronic Town Meetings...

I would love to see this happen. :thumb_yello:

[Northern Boy]

Frankly...if most of the money could be removed from the election process...that would be fine with me. I'm just trying to be pragmatic...and recognize how corrupt money can flow around rules and regulations. Actually...the internet may make this whole discussion moot. People may rely less and less on newspapers and television...and get most of their information from a wide variety of sources on the internet. Two years ago...I subscribed to the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times...and I had a television. Now I have none of the above...and I don't miss them a bit. Electronic Town Meetings...like Ross Perot proposed...will probably become the norm. The internet may be the best friend of We the People...if 'they' don't heavily censor it...or shut it down completely.

If you have seen the latest web bot predictions the talk about the death of Mainstream media and that the alternative media will take over . Lets watch and see what happens with stations like GNC and CMN. If they get bought up then we know that in all effect MSM owners will be looking to control us further by switching to the Alternative media

[Seashore]

...GNC and CMN...

What stations are these (what do the letters stand for)?

[Northern Boy]

Conscious Media Network and GNC I believe hosts Rense .com and info wars

[Machinamentum]

Hey now, who said taxes get paid by free people? No no... Look at taxes as a fee for being an agent of a corporation to which you are employed with. (I'm pretty drunk right now so pardon me) Don't bitch about the rules of the job after you have accepted it.

[Seashore]

Conscious Media Network and GNC I believe hosts Rense .com and info wars

You must mean GCN. GCN used to host Rense...

[Seashore]

Hey now, who said taxes get paid by free people? No no... Look at taxes as a fee for being an agent of a corporation to which you are employed with. (I'm pretty drunk right now so pardon me) Don't bitch about the rules of the job after you have accepted it.

Never argue with a drunk! :mfr_lol:

We don't have to be agents of a corporation.

We need to start from scratch.

But I think we must have government and taxes to fund it.