Orwell saw it...Jefferson saw it...Jesus saw it...will you see it ???

[THE eXchanger]

- The bastardization of market law
and personal freedoms
of this health bill are way over the line

way over the line for doctors
and way over the top for the patients
yet, if it becomes law
everyone will have to live with it !!!

Thank God Americans still have guns to protect their liberty.

I wonder if guns will be next in line for total control ?

Orwell saw it... Jefferson saw it... Jesus saw it...Will you see it ???

Let's hope we all will see it in short order.

Subject: Little Gems from the Health Care Bill

Little Gems from the Health Care Bill
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=903496

NOTE; THESE types of GEMS are NOT the type of gems, you'd want to mine !!!

[Sarahmay]

Pardon me, but you are Canadian and you already have nationalized health care. Do you realize that over 50 million Americans have no health care at all? Would you prefer to trade in your system for our current one? Because the way it is now totally sucks.

Just asking.

[THE eXchanger]

i think, you'd best be reading
what i posted

of course, i realise CANADA is vastly different than THE USA

how very unfortunate, that the people
in USA do NOT wake up

one of my relatives implemented our current health care system,
and, it is marvelous,
the USA, should be equally favoured with one, that is similiar,
this is NOT the point, of this post

i could choose, to NOT care less what happens there
after_all, i am NOT an american, NOR, in the USA
However, my neighbours to the south of me,
have major problems, lurking in that bill
and, i am concerned about it
AND, I AM CONCERNED people are NOT paying attention to
health issues, and, bills in congress

i'd rather not see a flood, of 200,000,000 people
coming to canada, when the USA systems,
completely break down

however, i could always head up
further north, i know how to live,
without heat , and, without hydro
and/or live off the grid

fortunately, we got taught that,
very young in our lives
(owing cottages, etc)

it's a time all of us, need to pay great attention
esp; to your bills, that are in your congress

ALL NEWS is NOT always GOOD NEWS

part of the new world, is already here
it's just part of it, hasn't caught up ...
which part are you in ???
+ xxx

[mntruthseeker]

i think, you'd best be reading
what i posted

of course, i realise CANADA is vastly different than THE USA

how very unfortunate, that the people
in USA do NOT wake up

one of my relatives implemented our current health care system,
and, it is marvelous,
the USA, should be equally favoured with one, that is similiar,
this is NOT the point, of this post

i could choose, to NOT care less what happens there
after_all, i am NOT an american, NOR, in the USA
However, my neighbours to the south of me,
have major problems, lurking in that bill
and, i am concerned about it
AND, I AM CONCERNED people are NOT paying attention to
health issues, and, bills in congress

i'd rather not see a flood, of 200,000,000 people
coming to canada, when the USA systems,
completely break down

however, i could always head up
further north, i know how to live,
without heat , and, without hydro
and/or live off the grid

fortunately, we got taught that,
very young in our lives
(owing cottages, etc)

it's a time all of us, need to pay great attention
esp; to your bills, that are in your congress

ALL NEWS is NOT always GOOD NEWS

part of the new world, is already here
it's just part of it, hasn't caught up ...
which part are you in ???



OMG you just wrote exactly my feelings that I just expressed in the other room

Fellow Canadian................thank you so much for caring

[Sarahmay]

Thank you for your response and your insightful comments about Canadian health care. So obviously, you are not against nationalized health care in principle.

I read the link, but it was so out of context it was difficult to digest. I imagine if you read every line of the Canadian Health care mandate that you would find some surprising and unsettling things as well. Yet the system works well, as you noted.

I would love to see a side by side comparison of the Canadian program vs. what is being proposed here in the US, instead of all this rhetoric about death panels and gun toting.

[jaby]

Thank God Americans still have guns to protect their liberty.


DO guns protect liberty ?

Or is it that the people who have the best guns get to run the show?

And who has the best guns ?

Sorry to pick you up on this point....but I found this statement a bit strange, especially when proceeded by the words...'thank god'...

Of couse...I'm from England, where we don't have guns. So I can't imagine how having a gun is going to protect liberty...surely it would just result in a blood-bath ?

Also...just to let you know..when I clicked on your link, it came up..'cannot display the webpage'.

[mntruthseeker]

• Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
• Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
• Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
• Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
• Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
• Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.
• Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
• Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
• Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
• Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
• Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
• Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
• Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
• Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
• Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
• Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
• Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
• Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
• Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
• Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
• Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
• Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
• Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
• Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
• Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
• Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
• Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
• Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
• Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
• Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
• Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
• Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
• Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
• Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
• Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
• Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
• Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
• Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
• Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
• Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
• Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
• Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
• Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
• Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
• Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
• Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
• Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

[mntruthseeker]

I truly hope that you read and understand what is in the health care bill

I guess it speaks for itself. So anyone that thinks that we are without merit to be upset over this, I would like to hear your resoning and please leave Obama out of it...................

[Jacqui D]

Yes Jaby we just have knives equally lethal weapons but still not legit as guns are not also.
I do not see england resulting to this we never have hope we never do sorry to jump in on this thread i know it was regarding the health system but do not get me on that one!

[Sarahmay]

I truly hope that you read and understand what is in the health care bill

I guess it speaks for itself. So anyone that thinks that we are without merit to be upset over this, I would like to hear your resoning and please leave Obama out of it...................

That is merely a list of interpretations that someone posted on a forum somewhere. I have no idea how accurate it is, and it is most certainly biased.

And it doesn't tell me if the same provisions are in the Canadian plan, which is "marvelous".

[mntruthseeker]

That is merely a list of interpretations that someone posted on a forum somewhere. I have no idea how accurate it is, and it is most certainly biased.

And it doesn't tell me if the same provisions are in the Canadian plan, which is "wonderful".



this list is in quite a few places and if you listened to the people that are bringing these issues up at the townhall meetings , you will see that these are one and the same.........they speak the truth.


I believe them to be the truth and if they are bias, it's only because the presenter is very bias.

Canada's health plan is not all that great. People have to wait months to get an appointment unless its an emergency. They wait a very long time.

I know that for a fact as I have two very good friends in Canada that I have been chatting with for 15 years.


Last time I heard they DID NOT HAVE A DEATH PANEL. and dont try to convince me that this is a lie. I am not the so called opposition that Obama is crying about.


I know what speaks the truth for me and that is not going to be changed by anything that you care to say. The people know the truth and I will give them credit for making their own decision.

[Northern Boy]

Sarah you need to understand In Canada we have our health care and its administered by the province not the Federal Government . The federal Government gives the provinces money every year in the form of a transfer payment . These Transfer payments are based on what is called equalization payments where the richer provinces that pay more into the federal government in taxes actually lose money and it is diverted to the poorer provinces so they can have health care to.

Transfer payments are in fact moneys generated from bonds issued from records of live birth . The fiduciary for these moneys is the federal Minister for Finance . The transfer money then goes to the Provincial Finance Minister . a second fiduciary . We can access this money for our selves IF we send a letter to the federal Finance Minister showing him that no it only will we benefit from it`s use but so will the state. So if one wanted to payoff his or her student loan the send a letter giving the amount owed and the loan number along with a request and it is paid off. The Fiduciary holds the money in trust unless you tell him what it is you want him to do with it then if you say nothing it is given to the provinces . A certain percentage of it must be spent on health care no exceptions Everyone in our government has this health care . Big difference here in our plan and your purposed plan .

All the money is pooled and doled out to the provinces so we all benefit from these programs if needed . here is another little tidbit most don`t know about a major amount of the money from the lotteries in Ontario goes to health care .

Its sad how you seem ready to just blindly accept what is being put in front of you . This is a mechanism for control of your health and right to life it is going to replace your Insurance companies they are done and are going to go bankrupt when the derivatives bubble bursts on the scene your government knows this Yes implosion is going to occur and its ripple will be felt in every corner of your country ....... and around the world. Our health care system and every other state financed healthcare system will soon be eliminated . Get ready to hear some shocking things about those that have manipulated and raped yours and other countries around the world in the name of greed It will make you very mad and at the same time very sad.

In the end this bill will pass but it will be voluntary you will be allowed to sign up for it if you so desire just be sure you know what your signing when you do . They spend Trillions on defense when there is no need to defend they let their citizens starve and go home less but throw a couple of billion in free health care at the people with strings attached and it will show we care BullSh*t .

At least i took the time to find out what was in it Sarah you can dismiss it as being some one else`s interpretation of it or Us canadians as having chimed in on some thing that does not concern us but the foreigners here on this forum are my part of the human race family when you see an injustice coming do you like it occur or try to stop it . Because if you let it occur in one spot then sooner or later it will be at your door

[mntruthseeker]

Well thank you for putting it that way NB

You being in Canada certainly cleared up some issues for me.

It helps to know what you are talking about, thats for sure

[pyrangello]

Sarah , I have to take issue with you that 50 million are uninsured, in the state of michigan last year the state paid for 23,000 babies to be born who did not have health insurance. If you show up at any hospital in the country (USA)and you are bleeding or in need of emergency care , the hospital cannot turn you down, legal or illegal. they have to provide care for you if you can pay or not. My buddy is a surgeon and told me all hospitals are required to take in a certain percentage of individuals who do not have health insurance by law, did you know that??

I don't supply health insurance here but do help out when I can for my business, one of my employees had a hospital stay recently for $14,000.00 , no insurance but due to his income he qualified for sub assiatance and his bill was paid 100%.

I personally have major medical , $5000.00 deduct and then up to 1 million in coverage covered by blue cross. My policy costs me $2400.00 a year. I have a huge problem with our government telling me that the costs for national health care are going to run between $10,000-$63,000 a year per person. Look at Social security, medicaid, medicare, and now the post office, just what rabbitt out of what hat do you think the 6th largeest industry in the U.S. can be run better by an entity that has borrowed more money than all our previous presidents and congress combined in the last 200 years of our existance as a country and that was all in the past 6 months , we still have 3 1/2 years to go, I swear I'm gonna start drinking.

My buddy who is a surgeon just left this area to go to another state to make more money and less hours and stress. He told me he got $1400.00 10 years ago for a gall bladder operation paid for by medicaid, Now its about $700.00 yet his liability insurance as 1 doctor paid by only himself was running him $50,000 a year.thats like 70 gall bladder operations and he still wouldn't be making money.

the real problem is the 530 czars and Cheese King in washinton DC who have special hrealth insurance and retirements that we are not entititled to. Yet they think they know how to make a system for all of us. I really ask you where is the panel of doctors assisting in this plan and it's construction. NOwhere. Because the czars as Fancy Nancy Pelosi said "I don't care if people agree with me ". think they know better.

I say the first issue and only issue right now are the 12 million americans who have pre-existing conditions that our greed filled insurance companies consider a piece of infected worthless meat and will not cover. IT is a crime for that to happen. I remember Hurricane Katrina, Oh yea the insurance companies were crying were going broke, they only covered 15% of the losses down there. they really went broke because of their greed investing in the stock market and not creating reserves for what they should be doing , insuring all americans. Next is tort reform of the lawyers, oh thats right most of the 530 czars were lawyers before they were czars. Never happen.

So when you say let these guys put up a plan and then resort to lying like the AARP backing them , yes I said lying and now it's coming out today the tangled web of who's getting what and for who and when if this passes. NO WAY. things are not that bad to revamp the entire system . I would entertain future discussions in a year , take the time, study and heaven forbid read the 1000 page bill, Oh thats right they didn't even read the 1000 page stimulas bill, what makes you think that the czars read this one ??? I doubt it. My vote is NO to National Health Care. No to incompetant people who want to spend more of my money. And NO to more government internetion in my life. hey say death and taxes are the only for sure things, add one more to that, everytime the government creates another hub for control it never goes away it only gets bigger. Please thank about it Sarah or better yet send me your checkbook and do direct deposit so I can manage your finances better than you , I know I can , Right?

[Sarahmay]

Sarah you need to understand In Canada we have our health care and its administered by the province not the Federal Government . The federal Government gives the provinces money every year in the form of a transfer payment . These Transfer payments are based on what is called equalization payments where the richer provinces that pay more into the federal government in taxes actually lose money and it is diverted to the poorer provinces so they can have health care to.

Transfer payments are in fact moneys generated from bonds issued from records of live birth . The fiduciary for these moneys is the federal Minister for Finance . The transfer money then goes to the Provincial Finance Minister . a second fiduciary . We can access this money for our selves IF we send a letter to the federal Finance Minister showing him that no it only will we benefit from it`s use but so will the state. So if one wanted to payoff his or her student loan the send a letter giving the amount owed and the loan number along with a request and it is paid off. The Fiduciary holds the money in trust unless you tell him what it is you want him to do with it then if you say nothing it is given to the provinces . A certain percentage of it must be spent on health care no exceptions Everyone in our government has this health care . Big difference here in our plan and your purposed plan .

All the money is pooled and doled out to the provinces so we all benefit from these programs if needed . here is another little tidbit most don`t know about a major amount of the money from the lotteries in Ontario goes to health care .

Its sad how you seem ready to just blindly accept what is being put in front of you . This is a mechanism for control of your health and right to life it is going to replace your Insurance companies they are done and are going to go bankrupt when the derivatives bubble bursts on the scene your government knows this Yes implosion is going to occur and its ripple will be felt in every corner of your country ....... and around the world. Our health care system and every other state financed healthcare system will soon be eliminated . Get ready to hear some shocking things about those that have manipulated and raped yours and other countries around the world in the name of greed It will make you very mad and at the same time very sad.

In the end this bill will pass but it will be voluntary you will be allowed to sign up for it if you so desire just be sure you know what your signing when you do . They spend Trillions on defense when there is no need to defend they let their citizens starve and go home less but throw a couple of billion in free health care at the people with strings attached and it will show we care BullSh*t .

At least i took the time to find out what was in it Sarah you can dismiss it as being some one else`s interpretation of it or Us canadians as having chimed in on some thing that does not concern us but the foreigners here on this forum are my part of the human race family when you see an injustice coming do you like it occur or try to stop it . Because if you let it occur in one spot then sooner or later it will be at your door

This is very interesting, thank you for the detail rather than just ranting. I concur that the derivatives crisis will be a game changer, and no matter what is passed, it may not be sustainable. But I also believe that if we have an affluent, organized society, then we have the moral imperative pay for the health care of all residents...point being, that we may not have an affluent, organized society for much longer.

I'm not naive about the vast greed of the pharma companies, insurance company, health care corps and on and on. And I realize that this proposal doesn't do much to curb it. But the notion of caring for our fellow man is an important one and it is an ideal that we must aspire to.

When I become self employed in a few months, I will be able to purchase health insurance for me and my husband with a $10,000 deductible for about $350 a month, and since we don't have health
problems we will go with that. But, the system may have collapsed by then, so it may all be a moot point.

[mntruthseeker]

Sarah , I have to take issue with you that 50 million are uninsured, in the state of michigan last year the state paid for 23,000 babies to be born who did not have health insurance. If you show up at any hospital in the country (USA)and you are bleeding or in need of emergency care , the hospital cannot turn you down, legal or illegal. they have to provide care for you if you can pay or not. My buddy is a surgeon and told me all hospitals are required to take in a certain percentage of individuals who do not have health insurance by law, did you know that??

I don't supply health insurance here but do help out when I can for my business, one of my employees had a hospital stay recently for $14,000.00 , no insurance but due to his income he qualified for sub assiatance and his bill was paid 100%.

I personally have major medical , $5000.00 deduct and then up to 1 million in coverage covered by blue cross. My policy costs me $2400.00 a year. I have a huge problem with our government telling me that the costs for national health care are going to run between $10,000-$63,000 a year per person. Look at Social security, medicaid, medicare, and now the post office, just what rabbitt out of what hat do you think the 6th largeest industry in the U.S. can be run better by an entity that has borrowed more money than all our previous presidents and congress combined in the last 200 years of our existance as a country and that was all in the past 6 months , we still have 3 1/2 years to go, I swear I'm gonna start drinking.

My buddy who is a surgeon just left this area to go to another state to make more money and less hours and stress. He told me he got $1400.00 10 years ago for a gall bladder operation paid for by medicaid, Now its about $700.00 yet his liability insurance as 1 doctor paid by only himself was running him $50,000 a year.thats like 70 gall bladder operations and he still wouldn't be making money.

the real problem is the 530 czars and Cheese King in washinton DC who have special hrealth insurance and retirements that we are not entititled to. Yet they think they know how to make a system for all of us. I really ask you where is the panel of doctors assisting in this plan and it's construction. NOwhere. Because the czars as Fancy Nancy Pelosi said "I don't care if people agree with me ". think they know better.

I say the first issue and only issue right now are the 12 million americans who have pre-existing conditions that our greed filled insurance companies consider a piece of infected worthless meat and will not cover. IT is a crime for that to happen. I remember Hurricane Katrina, Oh yea the insurance companies were crying were going broke, they only covered 15% of the losses down there. they really went broke because of their greed investing in the stock market and not creating reserves for what they should be doing , insuring all americans. Next is tort reform of the lawyers, oh thats right most of the 530 czars were lawyers before they were czars. Never happen.

So when you say let these guys put up a plan and then resort to lying like the AARP backing them , yes I said lying and now it's coming out today the tangled web of who's getting what and for who and when if this passes. NO WAY. things are not that bad to revamp the entire system . I would entertain future discussions in a year , take the time, study and heaven forbid read the 1000 page bill, Oh thats right they didn't even read the 1000 page stimulas bill, what makes you think that the czars read this one ??? I doubt it. My vote is NO to National Health Care. No to incompetant people who want to spend more of my money. And NO to more government internetion in my life. hey say death and taxes are the only for sure things, add one more to that, everytime the government creates another hub for control it never goes away it only gets bigger. Please thank about it Sarah or better yet send me your checkbook and do direct deposit so I can manage your finances better than you , I know I can , Right?


BRAVO BRAVO BRAVO......... well said. I tried to point this out to her and obviously her response was that I must live in a welfare state. Hardly but I was tired of arguing to someone who had their mind made up.

People are not turned away from recieving health care. I like to say I live in a caring state.:thumb_yello::thumb_yello:

[pyrangello]

One more thing , thanks truthseeker, when this country was founded by our founding fathers we had 0% dependency at that time, we are now at 40% dependency, can someone tell me just exactly how many more percentage points we need to get to before there are more feeding out of the trough than us those filling it back up.

Benjiman Franklin said this country's biggest challange will to maintain it's REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation , under god, individual with liberty and justice for all. We are now at a critical point of loosing our REPUBLIC, not a democracy, look it up. Educate yourself.

[THE eXchanger]

i am NOT one, who is a drain on the medical system,
i am well, never ill,
however, if i need a doctor,
they are as close as the local corner,
you walk in, you tell them, what is wrong,
and, you tell them, what you NEED
it is a smart thing-to do some research
for a yearly physical-i know what tests, i want them to run,
and, i know, from the results of them, where i am at
there is NO cost for these in canada--
for heaven sakes, they'll pull an extra vial,
just to tell you your blood type (if you want to know that, at NO cost)
trouble is, most people take their doctor's word, as The Gospel
for what is right/or wrong about them
(we really need to pay attention to our temples,
it's were all the rest of us live)

as for emergency care, etc.,
if you are real sick, i've NEVER seen a hospital
turn anyone i know away

i think, Canada, likely has the best FREE health care,
anywhere in the world - and, it is a system, that obviously, works

once upon a time, 50 was considered old, a lot of people
didn't even make it to 50

MORE SO THAN EVER,
we need to work together, to bring about some resolutions of things

unfortunately; our parents, our grandparents, and our great -grandparents
haven't been paying attention, to everything that has been going on,
some of us, are actually re-incarnate again, in order to fix things,
we did right/or, WRONG in other life cycles,
unfinished business,
and, it does,
it just goes round/and, round,
til someone stops it !!!
and, or, until someone starts setting it start !!!

that something, and, that someone,
starts with you, and, it starts with me,

together, we are a very strong force

we live in a world, with so much "fiat" money
that if it was equally distributed into everyone's hands
we'd all be so rich, we would NOT have to work
(geez, that must scare them)

something has sadly gone wrong, in this world
to have created such an un-even playing field

we have given up many of our rights,
for the false concept, that someone is protecting us
ironically, the more control, the less freedom

greed, has created many, many products,
that are NOW making many people sick,
stuffed full of unnatural sugars, chemicals,
and, msg, etc.etc.etc.,

some people ask me, why i look so young for 50,
the answer is simple,
i have NEVER eaten a diet of ****,
and, i have NEVER drank a soda pop,
NOT once, in my whole lifetime
i don't buy "fast mixes" -
i buy ingredients, and, cook up stuff, from scratch
(the good old fashioned way)

i don't utilise products on myself, that harm the earth
therefore, they are highly unlikely to harm me

We really need to get a better handle
on what is going on around us,
cause if we don't,
it will end up, totally out of control

today - some things doctors can do, is astounding

Health Care - means, lots and lots of jobs
and, when people have jobs,
they have money to spend at other businesses
that are in the same region

perhaps, that is part of the reason
Canada, is doing so well

also, we don't have 250,000,000-350,000,000 million people
(i'll bet it would be astounding to know how many illegal aliens
are in the usa)

vs. canada - a country about the same size (or maybe larger)
with only 25,000,000 to 35,000,000

(i'm just guessing on the above stats) - take them as guesses

comparatively
my guess is the usa, has 10 people, for every 1 canada has

anyway--it's time to get off our duffs - and, get our voices heard

YOU CAME HERE, for some reason --

journey or TRIP ??? (PARDON the PUN)

The main purpose of being here, isn't to beat the RAT RACE

it's to get the RATS out of THE RACE,
AND, create a world, worthy of living in
for everyone

AND, to start to provide proper eXchange to all !!!

All men/women are created equal
ironic, how all men/women do NOT stay equal
it boils down to one thing -- and, one thing only
how it is, that you decide to navagiate,
all the assortment of choices, that are put in front of you

as, that is YOUR SUM TOTAL
and, those are YOUR SET of CONSEQUENCES

we are also, all in this together
as, it factors further into
the global consciousness,
its equation - is the average of all of us

pretty silly, to come all this way to earth,
to do, something, likely something very significent,
and, then, NOT do it !!!

"do it, to be it
be it, to do it
simple words (13) "
THE eXchanger

[THE eXchanger]

One more thing , thanks truthseeker, when this country was founded by our founding fathers we had 0% dependency at that time, we are now at 40% dependency, can someone tell me just exactly how many more percentage points we need to get to before there are more feeding out of the trough than us those filling it back up.

Benjiman Franklin said this country's biggest challange will to maintain it's REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation , under god, individual with liberty and justice for all. We are now at a critical point of loosing our REPUBLIC, not a democracy, look it up. Educate yourself.

isn't that the truth !!!

[no caste]

Canada's health plan is not all that great.

It IS great. It's not perfect. There are some innovations going on with the waits. (Unfortunately, under-staffing - which speaks to prioritizing national budgets - doesn't seem to be there yet. A lot of government union bashing going on. Nurses get the worst of it.... I could go on and on, training foreign doctors etc). The other is queue theory I believe. Even McDonald's uses mathematical models to hurry things up. Our hospitals don't, yet.

People have to wait months to get an appointment unless its an emergency. They wait a very long time.

Sez who ? It's good to watch the sources on that. Most Canadians LOVE our system, with its warts and flaws.

There have been moves to privatize services, especially in Alberta where I live, and there are private clinics all over the country anyway. It's always a fight with the Canada Health Act. I'm very wary of that. It's a slippery slope and boom it's gone. The insurance companies own it.

[cueballri]

didnt hitler remove guns? Hasn't the crime rate gone up in Austraila and England where they were removed? Maybe I'm just reading it all wrong

[Fredkc]

There are three main issues with the pending atrocity being sold to scared people for the purpose of removing as much as possible from their wallets, before this country goes completely bankrupt. These are Karl Denninger's words, (http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1792-The-True-Intent-of-Health-Reform.html) I simply re-ordered them to suit my own priority, and added notes.

1. There is no justification in the Constitution (http://fredsitelive.com/politics/usconst.htm), to force someone under pain of federal fine and/or imprisonment to purchase something from a private party simply as a consequence of being alive.

2. Note that the so-called "benefits" of this reform will also take several years to show up.

3. Meanwhile, the taxes begin immediately.

This bill isn't about health. This bill isn't about health care. It is about shoveling as much money as possible off to some corporations, and using the government pointing a gun at you to get it.

Damn.. would love to "wax eloquent" on this, but I need to post another thread in the news department.

back later,
Fred

[Ravens and Doves]

Pardon me, but you are Canadian and you already have nationalized health care. Do you realize that over 50 million Americans have no health care at all? Would you prefer to trade in your system for our current one? Because the way it is now totally sucks.

Just asking.


JUST AS I OPENNED THIS THRAED, THE PHONE RANG and it was the dreaded county hospital calling me in for some brain test tommarrow figgin' morning a month earlier than I was originally schedualed. I don't have private insurance, state or federal relief and no longer have the ready cash I had when I was working and married.

Last year at this time I was about 20 feet from the Canadian border, not to get health care, but just to visit some wonderful old friends in B.C.. I fooze my butt off outside the BC guard house untilthe sun came up and the buses would start rolling back to Seattle (and to my train back to LA) for two reasons - one I can't mention - but it had something directly related to the
clamp-down in this rediculous "war on terror" on North American soil!!!

I got my free insurance through LA Healthways, a small, but difficult progam to get into - aimed at we who fall through the cracks, so to speak. But it's not funded well enough to cover the whole country... barely a small portion of LA is about all.

So now they want me to get no more than 4 hours sleep... no coffee... no meds (no problem, but... dang... I'm a post-cancer treatment gimp with all kind s of daily aches and pains... still shaking off PTS after being in the cross-fire of a crime... even the doc recommended on paper something I can't take because two members of my family will kick ass and one has me set up for black mail "on principal" because i'm "high profile" My "secrect life" (for lack of a better term is:

http://www.midtownnoho.org/user/24?referrer=board

Notice the grey hair? My friends and I all clock in at 49 to 53 years old and I just rapidly aged before everyones eyes.

The clip I posted in The Lounge of the Cherry Bluestorms... they all look like
The X-Changer because they live on food, water and SPIRITUALTY. To me, that is the great Canadian lesson (and Aussie lesson... and Other Places lesson the USA can learn. It has worked in spiritul enclaves on the coasts and places in between, but we still have much work to do.

Ok, yes, I have a crush on The X-Changer (I'm a-sexual - not by choice and in a tight platonic relationship with my ex-ex still - by choice... so no worries).

Now I'm less than 24 hours away from the county HUANTED hospital and it seems they want me to duplicate the mental state I was in so they can pin-point the "problem." The place was built right next to a hospital that was completely distroyed by the 1971 earthquake... burrying alive 40 or so doctors, nurses and patients... a second hospital never should have been built there. It should be Veteran's Hospital Memorial Park with flowers planted in a circle.

When I had my temporal lobe siezure... then NDE... what I saw is for another thread.... heavy stuff. My haert races at the thought of going back, but that's what I should do... chin up.

Like my firend's song goes, I must "brave the atmosphere... or the wave will pull me under.."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhGnV2wm3PQ

Wish me luck,

Paul

[Humble Janitor]

I still don't understand why health care reform is the new bogeyman.

It seems like the insurance companies have succeeded in getting people to feel sorry for them, hence screwing over ordinary Americans once again.

Then again, the current bill won't cover everyone so either way, something's gotta be done.