zeitgeist

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

A fellow member just advised me I should start a thread on Zeitgeist:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

It was the red pill for me, and woke me up from the deeeeeeep trance I was in, since then I have been reading and watching many new topics, for example, this road has now lead me to the Mayan Calander, and my coffee table used to have Surf magazines, now replaced with Cathy O'Brien books, David Icke books, Steven Greer, Richard Hoagland, William Bramley, and Eckhart Tolle.

I want to know from other members, do you find it difficult talking to people that don't know, don't want to know, or are plain brainwashed into the lie? What would you do to open these minds? I get frustrated at times especially when all people want to talk about is Britney Spears, a 3 cent rise in petrol, or the latest scandal in sports.

Rock on!

Z

[QUESTINY]

A fellow member just advised me I should start a thread on Zeitgeist:
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

It was the red pill for me, and woke me up from the deeeeeeep trance I was in, since then I have been reading and watching many new topics, for example, this road has now lead me to the Mayan Calander, and my coffee table used to have Surf magazines, now replaced with Cathy O'Brien books, David Icke books, Steven Greer, Richard Hoagland, William Bramley, and Eckhart Tolle.

I want to know from other members, do you find it difficult talking to people that don't know, don't want to know, or are plain brainwashed into the lie? What would you do to open these minds? I get frustrated at times especially when all people want to talk about is Britney Spears, a 3 cent rise in petrol, or the latest scandal in sports.

Rock on!

Z

Opps. I posted in the same thing in Books, Videos and Articles section. It is far better coming from you. This movie is a life changer. To answer your questions:

It is not difficult talking to people who don't know or don't want to know and I'll tell you my perspective. Most people are just trying to get through life as easily as they can. Stuck in Apathy. The go to the same gas station, eat at the same restaurants and watch the same tv shows (its not called programming for nothing). It makes them feel comfortable and in control. When you tell them the world around them is so very different than what they are told it can be scary. You basically told them that they are a slave and brainwashed. Nobody wants to hear this. The natural thing for a person in today's world is to run away from such talk. They can't handle one more thing to stress them out. The fighters (people on this forum) who want to know more seek answers. They are not wanting to be entertained. Only a very small percentage of people want to know why things are they way they are, who are they and where do they come from? This is NOT to say that we are better than them. We are different. We want answers and are drawn to to being apart of something bigger than ourselves. We feel a resonance with the Universe, it speaks to us.

If you run across a person who have an innate interest in learning and growing spiritually and mentally then you give them guidance. The same guidance that was given to you. Give them a little at a time and see what interests them. Don't vomit all that you know onto them it will scare them. Let them come to you. Take it easy, baby steps. Years ago if someone told you that we have been visited by future humans from the year 52,000 AD you would think their nuts too.

[whitecrow]

...do you find it difficult talking to people that don't know, don't want to know, or are plain brainwashed into the lie? What would you do to open these minds?

Yes...and nothing.

If they want to know, already they sense there's something worth knowing. If they don't want to know - well then, they are free to be ignorant and to enjoy the consequences.

You can't DO anything to anyone to open their minds. They have to want to do it. Once they begin trying, then you can help them...and how you go about it will make all the difference. Knowledge comes to people in different forms, and it won't do to try to make them see what I see. They have to learn what they are capable of seeing.

You may have wondered why the Bible refers to people as sheep and not as cattle. Both animals are stupid and dirty. But cattle must be driven, while sheep can be led. Help people see what their potential is, and they will want to learn more. I'd say if there's anything we can do for those who are still asleep it would be to help them step outside of fear and attachment.

[watchZEITGEISTnow]

It's great to meet like minds, and somehow I feel a little less "crazy" when around you guys:thumb_yello:

Z

[harrha]

I watched Zeigeist a while ago. . . excellent. I have also watched Terrorstorm
. . .. and Bohemian Grove. Kerry and Bill are doing an amazing job of bringing
this almost unbelievable stuff out. I listened to their latest interview with David Wilcock and the scope of information caused me to listen again and take notes. Either all of this stuff is real (and I am prone to believe it) or
it is the best science fiction around. Either way it is good to read/ hear that
there are others around who seem to be waking up. The internet has been
a wonderful tool for spreading the word. Other websites worthy of spending
time at are: www.enterprisemission.com
www.iwonderproductions.com
www.cropcircleconnector.com
www.earthfiles.com
www.unknowncountry.com

[Phoenix]

I want to know from other members, do you find it difficult talking to people that don't know, don't want to know, or are plain brainwashed into the lie? What would you do to open these minds?
Z

I think anything which "awakens" the mind to other ideas and concepts is a great thing however, what works for you may not work for another. This movie follows another train of thought, another philosophy which is no more right than any other.

One could question who is the one brainwashed? Wishing to propagate your new found ideals on the "ignorant masses" is akin to fundamentalism, who is to say what is the lie? Who are you to decide people should have their minds opened, opened to your new found belief?

Zeitgeist is an interesting movie but it is still propaganda, that is it promotes someones belief and agenda, kinda like most splinter religions such as Scientology etc don't you think?

When your eyes are opened its natural you want to teach the world to see, there is so much of it on this board (not a criticism) everyone wants to share their new found mantra whether it is conscious thought creating or channeled messages from spacemen, all believing they are enlightened.

This may be a step to enlightenment but it would be a mistake to believe some New Age philosophy makes you more enlightened than the guy delivering the mail who likes wrestling and watching crime dramas.

If it works for you then great but surely each must find their own way, their own path, in their own time.

Personally I think the first step in enlightenment is complete removal of judgment, now there's a paradox! :roll1:

[elirien]

Those who loved Zeitgeist loved this even more: :tongue2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6030443037963555139

[tonyob1]

i am finding it very hard to get people to wake up to whats going on.its got to the point where my friends wont talk to me anymore :lmfao:

tony

[TranceAm]

i am finding it very hard to get people to wake up to whats going on.its got to the point where my friends wont talk to me anymore :lmfao:

tony

You are being a missionary... Only talk about it, when they are open for it, and ask for information...

"Don't do onto others what you don't want done onto yourself.

Are they really your "friends" ;-) Or just ballast that you have been dragging with your over time?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Zeitgeist is full of Errors. Especially part 1. Parts 2 & 3 are good.

However, I am looking forward to Zeitgeist adendum next month. :)

[Captain Obvious]

I enjoyed Zeitgeist. My best friend asked me about this film a while ago, very excited about it, and I told my opinions about it, and that led us to talk about other stuff aswell, which was awesome. I had previously asked my friend a few questions about certain things, to feel my friend out, and my hunch: we were dealing with different things. I don't see the point of talking about stuff that only one party wants. That'd be trying to save someone, which is a topic on its own, or forcing somebody into something.

So by hearing out the other persons perspectives, thoughts, dreams, ideals, what they like, don't like, and so forth, I rather quickly see if there's compability between us. Doesn't happen too often locally.

[Ashatav]

There are something Really important with this movie.

A little-Big Mistake

The movie mix the Reallities about the Federal reserve scam and the 911 truth with the Not True thing about the Non Existence of Jehoshua (Jesus).

I explain you wi this happens.

First. The Catolic institution is, basically, the Whore of apocalipsis, haha, it's the evilest institution out there, in fact, the pro NWO movement is controled by the vatican, it's the top of the piramyd, the mother of the satanics secret societies. Really, and control the media with their infiltrators. Because that they are almost never mentioned, because the alternative media are theirs to. Most of them.

The nutrimedical Report Show from bill Deagle isn't. Listen him! It's the best show out there. You can listen it here:

http://www.gcnlive.com/Programs/Nutrimedical/On_Demand.html

Ok. Why this is pro the existence of Jesus?

That's why:

In the 3erd century, the emperor Constantine was the ruller of the empire an has a little problem: the cristians.

The emperor can not kill them all. Why he wants to kill them, really ]I don't know, but the thing I know is he are of the religion of Mythras.

What is that religion?

That religion are the decendant of the ancient mystery religions from babilonia (Nimrod, Semiramis, Baal) who goes to egipt (Isis, Horus and Seth), and so on.

The archetipe of horus reach several religions after the first.

*Now, what happened. This: Constantine who cannot kill the cristians and he was a Mytharist (and a Solar Invictus follower -who was a derived religion from mythraism) has a problem. But he found the solution quickly!

He FUSED BOTH religions.

So he created the Catholic Religion, who really is a Mystery Religion with a Cristian make up! The history of Jehoshua where Fused with the history of Horus/Baal who where Solar messaiahs!

So, this is the reason Zeitgeist says Jehoshua doesn't exist. He Exist, and this is by Really Good Sources.

Cheers!

[elirien]

as many have put it, the first part is pretty much refuted. you can search for zeitgeistchallenge and zeitgeist refuted in google. nowheretorun (a.k.a chris white) has some pretty decent research on the first part.

but the second and third part and especially the music kick ass. it is not a definite answer to everything but it has some very decent information that has been presented in a good way. my good wishes goes to the producer.

[Circlewerk]

I find it much more productive to live as an example, to honor my truth, knowing full well that it may not be the truth of everyone.
I can love you, and not be attached to the results of our conversations.
I do not need your truth to match my own.
It is only my ego that enables a back slide into the idea that it's my job to save or inform others, especially if the information was not asked for..."unsolicited advice."
"Pain Body."
Fear, leads me to a desire to control people & situations outside of me.

If I am asked a question, I give an honest answer.
My truth is not up for debate.
Nor am I here to debate what resonates with you.
I'm here to love you, and co-create.

I have found that through my research, through deciding what does resonate with me, that I prefer to be quiet now.
I watch, I listen, and I pour love & light out through my heart chakra to all.
We belong to one another, whether or not we are like minded.
I intend my future through focused visualization & meditation, where unconditional love is exercised and obvious, and fear is antique.

Now Feels Good,
CW

[elirien]

I find it much more productive to live as an example, to honor my truth, knowing full well that it may not be the truth of everyone.
I can love you, and not be attached to the results of our conversations.
I do not need your truth to match my own.
It is only my ego that enables a back slide into the idea that it's my job to save or inform others, especially if the information was not asked for..."unsolicited advice."
"Pain Body."
Fear, leads me to a desire to control people & situations outside of me.

If I am asked a question, I give an honest answer.
My truth is not up for debate.
Nor am I here to debate what resonates with you.
I'm here to love you, and co-create.

I have found that through my research, through deciding what does resonate with me, that I prefer to be quiet now.
I watch, I listen, and I pour love & light out through my heart chakra to all.
We belong to one another, whether or not we are like minded.
I intend my future through focused visualization & meditation, where unconditional love is exercised and obvious, and fear is antique.

Now Feels Good,
CW

I think that is beautiful. Thank you CW :original:

[Ashatav]

The second and third part REALLY Kick Ass.

Other good movie like this is "Esoteric Agenda"

It is in google video!!!


Cheers!

[rustanddust]

zeitgeist was okay, personally I found the information to be pretty unorganized and mismatched and as EYES WIDE OPEN mentioned not completely accurate. it was all over the place and not really that deeply informative, perhaps like a primer for people to look a bit more into all these subjects(i.e. conspiracy theories, ufos, estoric and occult knowledge etc) it was one of the first things I saw when I got into all this mess :thumb_yello:

[Gareth]

Those who loved Zeitgeist loved this even more: :tongue2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6030443037963555139

Just watched this - great video.

[Dominic]

Those who loved Zeitgeist loved this even more: :tongue2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6030443037963555139

This one hits it dead on!!!!

Thank you for the info.

[elirien]

No problem Anasazi and Dominic. you could write some stuff in here (http://projectavalon.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1766) so that the topic bumps up and more people have the opportunity to watch it.

[halebox]

I posted this link to esoteric agenda a musical gear forum Ive been part of for 6 years. The moderators gave me an infraction for posting something political. I dont care. Of the 25 or so bonehead replies maybe 1 or 2 people got something out of it. (thanks elirien)


Those who loved Zeitgeist loved this even more: :tongue2:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6030443037963555139

[Ashatav]

I really posted esoteric agenda 1 second after born 3000 years ago:

See it!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5505313512583412097&ei=qE3LSIqyIYquiAKArpiGAQ&q=walter+veith+secret+societies&hl=en












Exelent and very recomendable video to find what happens in the world now.

Cheers! :thumb_yello:

[TranceAm]

Zeitgeist is full of Errors. Especially part 1.

Errors...

I thought that it was quite revealing that.. Jesus wasn't the first one to reappear after death.. Others had done that trick before, and a MEME was copied....
One would think that something unexplainable would happen for the FIRST time.
Nono, an idea already around for somewhat longer was recycled.

Beside that, if God really would have made a son and make a point that mankind couldn't deny, it would have been, that Jesus COULDN"T die like a man.
Hell, how hard can that be, if you can change your specific weight to lower then that of water.


Then we can add some history that can be learned from 'The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine" and I quote from http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/part1.htm (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/part1.html)
:

"
Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.
As it is necessary to affix right ideas to words, I will, before I proceed further into the subject, offer some observations on the word 'revelation.' Revelation when applied to religion, means something communicated immediately from God to man.
No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and, consequently, they are not obliged to believe it.
"

"But the resurrection of a dead person from the grave, and his ascension through the air, is a thing very different, as to the evidence it admits of, to the invisible conception of a child in the womb. The resurrection and ascension, supposing them to have taken place, admitted of public and ocular demonstration, like that of the ascension of a balloon, or the sun at noon day, to all Jerusalem at least. A thing which everybody is required to believe, requires that the proof and evidence of it should be equal to all, and universal; and as the public visibility of this last related act was the only evidence that could give sanction to the former part, the whole of it falls to the ground, because that evidence never was given. Instead of this, a small number of persons, not more than eight or nine, are introduced as proxies for the whole world, to say they saw it, and all the rest of the world are called upon to believe it. But it appears that Thomas did not believe the resurrection; and, as they say, would not believe without having ocular and manual demonstration himself. So neither will I; and the reason is equally as good for me, and for every other person, as for Thomas."

"
IT is upon this plain narrative of facts, together with another case I am going to mention, that the Christian mythologists, calling themselves the Christian Church, have erected their fable, which for absurdity and extravagance is not exceeded by anything that is to be found in the mythology of the ancients.
The ancient mythologists tell us that the race of Giants made war against Jupiter, and that one of them threw a hundred rocks against him at one throw; that Jupiter defeated him with thunder, and confined him afterwards under Mount Etna; and that every time the Giant turns himself, Mount Etna belches fire. It is here easy to see that the circumstance of the mountain, that of its being a volcano, suggested the idea of the fable; and that the fable is made to fit and wind itself up with that circumstance.
The Christian mythologists tell that their Satan made war against the Almighty, who defeated him, and confined him afterwards, not under a mountain, but in a pit. It is here easy to see that the first fable suggested the idea of the second; for the fable of Jupiter and the Giants was told many hundred years before that of Satan.
Thus far the ancient and the Christian mythologists differ very little from each other. But the latter have contrived to carry the matter much farther. They have contrived to connect the fabulous part of the story of Jesus Christ with the fable originating from Mount Etna; and, in order to make all the parts of the story tie together, they have taken to their aid the traditions of the Jews; for the Christian mythology is made up partly from the ancient mythology, and partly from the Jewish traditions.
The Christian mythologists, after having confined Satan in a pit, were obliged to let him out again to bring on the sequel of the fable. He is then introduced into the garden of Eden in the shape of a snake, or a serpent, and in that shape he enters into familiar conversation with Eve, who is no ways surprised to hear a snake talk; and the issue of this tete-a-tate is, that he persuades her to eat an apple, and the eating of that apple damns all mankind.
After giving Satan this triumph over the whole creation, one would have supposed that the church mythologists would have been kind enough to send him back again to the pit, or, if they had not done this, that they would have put a mountain upon him, (for they say that their faith can remove a mountain) or have put him under a mountain, as the former mythologists had done, to prevent his getting again among the women, and doing more mischief. But instead of this, they leave him at large, without even obliging him to give his parole. The secret of which is, that they could not do without him; and after being at the trouble of making him, they bribed him to stay. They promised him ALL the Jews, ALL the Turks by anticipation, nine-tenths of the world beside, and Mahomet into the bargain. After this, who can doubt the bountifulness of the Christian Mythology?
Having thus made an insurrection and a battle in heaven, in which none of the combatants could be either killed or wounded --put Satan into the pit--let him out again--given him a triumph over the whole creation--damned all mankind by the eating of an apple, there Christian mythologists bring the two ends of their fable together. They represent this virtuous and amiable man, Jesus Christ, to be at once both God and man, and also the Son of God, celestially begotten, on purpose to be sacrificed, because they say that Eve in her longing [NOTE: The French work has: "yielding to an unrestrained appetite.--Editor.] had eaten an apple."

"

PUTTING aside everything that might excite laughter by its absurdity, or detestation by its profaneness, and confining ourselves merely to an examination of the parts, it is impossible to conceive a story more derogatory to the Almighty, more inconsistent with his wisdom, more contradictory to his power, than this story is.
In order to make for it a foundation to rise upon, the inventors were under the necessity of giving to the being whom they call Satan a power equally as great, if not greater, than they attribute to the Almighty. They have not only given him the power of liberating himself from the pit, after what they call his fall, but they have made that power increase afterwards to infinity. Before this fall they represent him only as an angel of limited existence, as they represent the rest. After his fall, he becomes, by their account, omnipresent. He exists everywhere, and at the same time. He occupies the whole immensity of space.
Not content with this deification of Satan, they represent him as defeating by stratagem, in the shape of an animal of the creation, all the power and wisdom of the Almighty. They represent him as having compelled the Almighty to the direct necessity either of surrendering the whole of the creation to the government and sovereignty of this Satan, or of capitulating for its redemption by coming down upon earth, and exhibiting himself upon a cross in the shape of a man.
Had the inventors of this story told it the contrary way, that is, had they represented the Almighty as compelling Satan to exhibit himself on a cross in the shape of a snake, as a punishment for his new transgression, the story would have been less absurd, less contradictory. But, instead of this they make the transgressor triumph, and the Almighty fall.
That many good men have believed this strange fable, and lived very good lives under that belief (for credulity is not a crime) is what I have no doubt of. In the first place, they were educated to believe it, and they would have believed anything else in the same manner. There are also many who have been so enthusiastically enraptured by what they conceived to be the infinite love of God to man, in making a sacrifice of himself, that the vehemence of the idea has forbidden and deterred them from examining into the absurdity and profaneness of the story. The more unnatural anything is, the more is it capable of becoming the object of dismal admiration. [NOTE: The French work has "blind and" preceding dismal."--Editor.]"

So could you enlighten us about the Errors?

[Hiram]

Years ago if someone told you that we have been visited by future humans from the year 52,000 AD you would think their nuts too.


Baby Steps.:) How superb. Most people do need baby steps. We are far gone now...down a road that is jagged and rough hewn. Most of us refuse to look to the left or the right and see the lillies swaying in the pasture. Nevertheless the lillies are there, and they continue to sway...continue to "Be" regardless of what we feel or believe.

Things have begun to change in ernest now though. In the words of the music-saint Sam Cook...."I know change is coming soon:)"


If we can look at the larger processes at work...this change is very natural. A species must have a reckoning between its technology and its spirit. At some point those two aspects of who we are must meet and reconcile.

So within...so without.

Though perhaps unlike some on this board...some whom I envy their innocence...treasure it actually...I have always known we are being visited by humans from the future. I have always known that aliens exist. But being in that state, my greatest pleasure in life has been observing that change in awareness which comes over someone as they turn thier head to the side and discover those lillies..swaying in the breeze.

[elirien]

I posted this link to esoteric agenda a musical gear forum Ive been part of for 6 years. The moderators gave me an infraction for posting something political. I dont care. Of the 25 or so bonehead replies maybe 1 or 2 people got something out of it. (thanks elirien)

No problem halebox. Well the manipulation of reality became politics a long time ago. Since I am kind of an audiophile myself I can understand why they are doing this. They fear to lift the curtain and see what's really going on. It's very natural. 1 person is very important. 2 even better. I thank you halebox.

[elirien]

Errors...

I thought that it was quite revealing that.. Jesus wasn't the first one to reappear after death.. Others had done that trick before, and a MEME was copied....
One would think that something unexplainable would happen for the FIRST time.
Nono, an idea already around for somewhat longer was recycled.


That rings true with me but which story is true? Perhaps one of the Jesus stories is made by the mystery schools? It is a very great probability.


Beside that, if God really would have made a son and make a point that mankind couldn't deny, it would have been, that Jesus COULDN"T die like a man.
Hell, how hard can that be, if you can change your specific weight to lower then that of water.


Well I didn't understand anything from the above paragraph. sorry :)



Then we can add some history that can be learned from 'The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine" and I quote from http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/part1.htm (http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/part1.html)
:

"
Each of those churches shows certain books, which they call revelation, or the Word of God. The Jews say that their Word of God was given by God to Moses face to face; the Christians say, that their Word of God came by divine inspiration; and the Turks say, that their Word of God (the Koran) was brought by an angel from heaven. Each of those churches accuses the other of unbelief; and, for my own part, I disbelieve them all.
As it is necessary to affix right ideas to words, I will, before I proceed further into the subject, offer some observations on the word 'revelation.' Revelation when applied to religion, means something communicated immediately from God to man.
No one will deny or dispute the power of the Almighty to make such a communication if he pleases. But admitting, for the sake of a case, that something has been revealed to a certain person, and not revealed to any other person, it is revelation to that person only. When he tells it to a second person, a second to a third, a third to a fourth, and so on, it ceases to be a revelation to all those persons. It is revelation to the first person only, and hearsay to every other, and, consequently, they are not obliged to believe it.
"

"But the resurrection of a dead person from the grave, and his ascension through the air, is a thing very different, as to the evidence it admits of, to the invisible conception of a child in the womb. The resurrection and ascension, supposing them to have taken place, admitted of public and ocular demonstration, like that of the ascension of a balloon, or the sun at noon day, to all Jerusalem at least. A thing which everybody is required to believe, requires that the proof and evidence of it should be equal to all, and universal; and as the public visibility of this last related act was the only evidence that could give sanction to the former part, the whole of it falls to the ground, because that evidence never was given. Instead of this, a small number of persons, not more than eight or nine, are introduced as proxies for the whole world, to say they saw it, and all the rest of the world are called upon to believe it. But it appears that Thomas did not believe the resurrection; and, as they say, would not believe without having ocular and manual demonstration himself. So neither will I; and the reason is equally as good for me, and for every other person, as for Thomas."

"
IT is upon this plain narrative of facts, together with another case I am going to mention, that the Christian mythologists, calling themselves the Christian Church, have erected their fable, which for absurdity and extravagance is not exceeded by anything that is to be found in the mythology of the ancients.
The ancient mythologists tell us that the race of Giants made war against Jupiter, and that one of them threw a hundred rocks against him at one throw; that Jupiter defeated him with thunder, and confined him afterwards under Mount Etna; and that every time the Giant turns himself, Mount Etna belches fire. It is here easy to see that the circumstance of the mountain, that of its being a volcano, suggested the idea of the fable; and that the fable is made to fit and wind itself up with that circumstance.
The Christian mythologists tell that their Satan made war against the Almighty, who defeated him, and confined him afterwards, not under a mountain, but in a pit. It is here easy to see that the first fable suggested the idea of the second; for the fable of Jupiter and the Giants was told many hundred years before that of Satan.
Thus far the ancient and the Christian mythologists differ very little from each other. But the latter have contrived to carry the matter much farther. They have contrived to connect the fabulous part of the story of Jesus Christ with the fable originating from Mount Etna; and, in order to make all the parts of the story tie together, they have taken to their aid the traditions of the Jews; for the Christian mythology is made up partly from the ancient mythology, and partly from the Jewish traditions.
The Christian mythologists, after having confined Satan in a pit, were obliged to let him out again to bring on the sequel of the fable. He is then introduced into the garden of Eden in the shape of a snake, or a serpent, and in that shape he enters into familiar conversation with Eve, who is no ways surprised to hear a snake talk; and the issue of this tete-a-tate is, that he persuades her to eat an apple, and the eating of that apple damns all mankind.
After giving Satan this triumph over the whole creation, one would have supposed that the church mythologists would have been kind enough to send him back again to the pit, or, if they had not done this, that they would have put a mountain upon him, (for they say that their faith can remove a mountain) or have put him under a mountain, as the former mythologists had done, to prevent his getting again among the women, and doing more mischief. But instead of this, they leave him at large, without even obliging him to give his parole. The secret of which is, that they could not do without him; and after being at the trouble of making him, they bribed him to stay. They promised him ALL the Jews, ALL the Turks by anticipation, nine-tenths of the world beside, and Mahomet into the bargain. After this, who can doubt the bountifulness of the Christian Mythology?
Having thus made an insurrection and a battle in heaven, in which none of the combatants could be either killed or wounded --put Satan into the pit--let him out again--given him a triumph over the whole creation--damned all mankind by the eating of an apple, there Christian mythologists bring the two ends of their fable together. They represent this virtuous and amiable man, Jesus Christ, to be at once both God and man, and also the Son of God, celestially begotten, on purpose to be sacrificed, because they say that Eve in her longing [NOTE: The French work has: "yielding to an unrestrained appetite.--Editor.] had eaten an apple."

"

PUTTING aside everything that might excite laughter by its absurdity, or detestation by its profaneness, and confining ourselves merely to an examination of the parts, it is impossible to conceive a story more derogatory to the Almighty, more inconsistent with his wisdom, more contradictory to his power, than this story is.
In order to make for it a foundation to rise upon, the inventors were under the necessity of giving to the being whom they call Satan a power equally as great, if not greater, than they attribute to the Almighty. They have not only given him the power of liberating himself from the pit, after what they call his fall, but they have made that power increase afterwards to infinity. Before this fall they represent him only as an angel of limited existence, as they represent the rest. After his fall, he becomes, by their account, omnipresent. He exists everywhere, and at the same time. He occupies the whole immensity of space.
Not content with this deification of Satan, they represent him as defeating by stratagem, in the shape of an animal of the creation, all the power and wisdom of the Almighty. They represent him as having compelled the Almighty to the direct necessity either of surrendering the whole of the creation to the government and sovereignty of this Satan, or of capitulating for its redemption by coming down upon earth, and exhibiting himself upon a cross in the shape of a man.
Had the inventors of this story told it the contrary way, that is, had they represented the Almighty as compelling Satan to exhibit himself on a cross in the shape of a snake, as a punishment for his new transgression, the story would have been less absurd, less contradictory. But, instead of this they make the transgressor triumph, and the Almighty fall.
That many good men have believed this strange fable, and lived very good lives under that belief (for credulity is not a crime) is what I have no doubt of. In the first place, they were educated to believe it, and they would have believed anything else in the same manner. There are also many who have been so enthusiastically enraptured by what they conceived to be the infinite love of God to man, in making a sacrifice of himself, that the vehemence of the idea has forbidden and deterred them from examining into the absurdity and profaneness of the story. The more unnatural anything is, the more is it capable of becoming the object of dismal admiration. [NOTE: The French work has "blind and" preceding dismal."--Editor.]"

So could you enlighten us about the Errors?

Well why did you use Thomas Paine as a source? I think and this is just an opinion that this guy is a teacher of the mystery religion, the exoteric Osirian cycle rather then a man of fact. I don't believe in any mass religion but I am slowly deciphering the method or the 'rythm' so to speak of these exoterically astrological but esoterically philosophical themes that these mass religions that claim that they are for the individual use very often.

By the way, slapping the Muslim label on Turks is very very ignorant. There are now investigations for the Khazar Turks who became Jews long before the times this document was written. Original Turks practiced shamanism before and even some during the Ottoman Empire's reign. There are satanists called Yezidis, Orthodox Christians and many other religious aims. A Turk is a muslim who follows "Mahomet" (which some claim was obvious slander from the mystery schools, mutilating the name Baphomet. His name is Muhammed, Mehmet, Mahmut and other derivations in Turkish and I believe Mohammad is the Arabian original) is quite ignorant and generalizing like claiming Americans are Christians.

I know that in that time the Ottoman Empire was the sole state of Muslims but it doesn't mean that it was a Turkish Empire. The divan was almost all together non-Turkish besides the Sultans whose mothers were again non-Turkish. You could claim that the people of the Ottoman Empire were Turkish but that smells quite fantasy since I can't believe that the libido of that tribe wouldn't quite reach 2 continent's and that they invaded land by slaughtering everyone (quite the contrary happened which is historically proven and I am too lazy to find you the articles concerning that. Look it up. And btw Atilla is a European Hun :) )

This eradicates quite many of the credibility points of this guy who in his claims never once wrote down from which sources he is taking his claims from.

Map 1: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/342ottomanempire.gif

Map 2: http://www.ata.boun.edu.tr/Faculty/Nadir%20Ozbek/courses/Hist121/Maps/OE_1683-1800.jpg


Ok. I could rant and go on for hours and pages but I need to work to feed myself :) Take care.

I think the errors you could see at the links to the videos and it would be nice of you if you could point to the direct claim in lets say zeitgeist refuted minute 5 where it says "bla bla bla Jesus bla bla". This is quite tiring :)

[TranceAm]

This is going to be in bits and pieces, since there are other threads at this moment, who I think are much more important.

Point 1
" Originally Posted by TranceAm View Post
Beside that, if God really would have made a son and make a point that mankind couldn't deny, it would have been, that Jesus COULDN"T die like a man.
Hell, how hard can that be, if you can change your specific weight to lower then that of water.

Well I didn't understand anything from the above paragraph. sorry

"After feeding the five thousand, Jesus sends his disciples ahead of him in a boat to cross the Sea of Galilee. Several hours later in the night, the disciples encounter a storm. Jesus comes to them, walking on the water. This terrifies the disciples and they think they are seeing a ghost. Jesus tells them in verse 27, "Take courage! It is I. Don't be afraid.""

Let me paint a picture... "Jesus walked over water"
The only way that story can be true AND physics works, is that Jesus weight for a while was LESS then the water his body would push away when submerged IN the water.. (Archimedes. Specific weight.) Basically his weight was about as much as the air just above the water. (Tangent.. Why walk if you can fly? ;-)

The total mass/volume ratio of his body (Including the plus minus 80% water.) weighted LESS then the same volume of water. Normal one would float... But in this case he managed to not puncture the water surface.. Meaning the surface tension of water bared his weight... (Something some water insects do.)
Unless of course he walked on ice.. But then it would be a lie, a deception to depict something godly.. And if he walked on ice, what did his followers do in a boat and why did they not walk with him? And it clearly states "Jesus sends his disciples ahead of him in a boat"

Further more..
If I would create a Jesus.. (assuming for a moment "godly" powers.)
You could try to burn him, or his flesh, but his atoms wouldn't oxidize and his molecules not break up.
You could burry him, but he would whenever you dug him up, be alive and not aged.
His body would survive any time span without oxigen...
And how? By making his body for the danger time, have a total standstill of time...

THAT is the materialized will of a god, sending a message, no human can deny, or copy, or imitate, or mimic.... And now in these times we don't deal with humans with the scientific grade of 1st graders anymore... So extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof that will convince ANY and EVERY one, NOW and IN the FUTURE.

The Jesus of the Age of Aquarius, will have to walk hot fires, or Humanity has to be dumbed down (?again?) for a couple of generations.

____________ Is that a crystal clear picture?


Well why did you use Thomas Paine as a source?.

I take Thomas Paine as example because it is one written a while ago, And not Fresh as Zeitgeist. So the counter argument of the RC or Christian Religion should have been written long ago. So this news article written 23 years after his death, should raise some eyebrows. Can you cite a URL where this counter is peer verifiable?

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/pageviewer?frames=1&coll=moa&view=50&root=%2Fmoa%2Fnora%2Fnora0155%2F&tif=00187.TIF

And its logic stands by showing the power play between the Deity Supreme and the Fallen Angel... Beside the copied memes from pagan religions.... One can only deny the facts but only after a complete rewrite of history.

Your Opinion may respectfully differ 180 Degrees.

[elirien]

This is going to be in bits and pieces, since there are other threads at this moment, who I think are much more important.

Point 1
" Originally Posted by TranceAm View Post
Beside that, if God really would have made a son and make a point that mankind couldn't deny, it would have been, that Jesus COULDN"T die like a man.
Hell, how hard can that be, if you can change your specific weight to lower then that of water.

Well I didn't understand anything from the above paragraph. sorry

"After feeding the five thousand, Jesus sends his disciples ahead of him in a boat to cross the Sea of Galilee. Several hours later in the night, the disciples encounter a storm. Jesus comes to them, walking on the water. This terrifies the disciples and they think they are seeing a ghost. Jesus tells them in verse 27, "Take courage! It is I. Don't be afraid.""

Let me paint a picture... "Jesus walked over water"
The only way that story can be true AND physics works, is that Jesus weight for a while was LESS then the water his body would push away when submerged IN the water.. (Archimedes. Specific weight.) Basically his weight was about as much as the air just above the water. (Tangent.. Why walk if you can fly? ;-)

The total mass/volume ratio of his body (Including the plus minus 80% water.) weighted LESS then the same volume of water. Normal one would float... But in this case he managed to not puncture the water surface.. Meaning the surface tension of water bared his weight... (Something some water insects do.)
Unless of course he walked on ice.. But then it would be a lie, a deception to depict something godly.. And if he walked on ice, what did his followers do in a boat and why did they not walk with him? And it clearly states "Jesus sends his disciples ahead of him in a boat"

Further more..
If I would create a Jesus.. (assuming for a moment "godly" powers.)
You could try to burn him, or his flesh, but his atoms wouldn't oxidize and his molecules not break up.
You could burry him, but he would whenever you dug him up, be alive and not aged.
His body would survive any time span without oxigen...
And how? By making his body for the danger time, have a total standstill of time...

THAT is the materialized will of a god, sending a message, no human can deny, or copy, or imitate, or mimic.... And now in these times we don't deal with humans with the scientific grade of 1st graders anymore... So extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof that will convince ANY and EVERY one, NOW and IN the FUTURE.

The Jesus of the Age of Aquarius, will have to walk hot fires, or Humanity has to be dumbed down (?again?) for a couple of generations.

____________ Is that a crystal clear picture?

Yes and it is just your picture. I have to state once again that I am not a christian, neither the lawyer of Jesus but fallacies make me kinda pissy. First of all you give your opinion about this god person in the reasoning of your mind that you have to accept is quite fresh to reality (not that I'm blaming you. All of ours are.). I mean ten years ago this was all fantasy to us and now we are here saying "If I were god I would have bla bla". It's like saying "the aliens are not this way bla bla". These are fatal assumptions and opinions. It's like giving permission to the cleaner to fondle around a fusion reactor. I am not kicking you around here. It is my opinion that we all are cleaners perhaps even more ignorant creatures on this topic.

On your walking on water theory I can give you another perspective. Your points are very plausible but you didn't take into account gravitational force. How bout that Jesus could control the polarity and magnitude of his body's magnetic push and pull forces. That would be walking on water without touching it. Perhaps it is some force that we don't know **** about.

I think your perspective on these divine occasions are too humane. Too much based on what you perceive is real. This an universe of possibility.




Well why did you use Thomas Paine as a source?.

I take Thomas Paine as example because it is one written a while ago, And not Fresh as Zeitgeist. So the counter argument of the RC or Christian Religion should have been written long ago. So this news article written 23 years after his death, should raise some eyebrows. Can you cite a URL where this counter is peer verifiable?

http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/pageviewer?frames=1&coll=moa&view=50&root=%2Fmoa%2Fnora%2Fnora0155%2F&tif=00187.TIF

And its logic stands by showing the power play between the Deity Supreme and the Fallen Angel... Beside the copied memes from pagan religions.... One can only deny the facts but only after a complete rewrite of history.

Your Opinion may respectfully differ 180 Degrees.

Well it does. This page that you have linked to makes this non-credible person a hero. Very interesting in two ways. First to see that people think that every despicable person is working for the truth and secondly that people kind of deify such persons no matter if their writing bs. It is debated that this guy is a Freemason which makes me cringe. I mean I'm not blaming every Freemason of being liars but I know that their liabilities lie with some place else.

[TranceAm]

Yes and it is just your picture. I have to state once again that I am not a christian, neither the lawyer of Jesus but fallacies make me kinda pissy. First of all you give your opinion about this god person in the reasoning of your mind that you have to accept is quite fresh to reality (not that I'm blaming you. All of ours are.). I mean ten years ago this was all fantasy to us.

Sorry to interupt a smoothly going reply , but that has to read "To me..". I have had that opinion for a little longer then that.

and now we are here saying "If I were god I would have bla bla". It's like saying "the aliens are not this way bla bla". These
are fatal assumptions and opinions.

But the officiail account isn't? ;-) That is a tad strange, not?

It's like giving permission to the cleaner to fondle around a fusion reactor. I am not kicking you around here. It is my opinion that we all are cleaners perhaps even more ignorant creatures on this topic.

Giving permission to the cleaner, in my eyes, is playing with DNA...

On your walking on water theory I can give you another perspective. Your points are very plausible but you didn't take into account gravitational force. How bout that Jesus could control the polarity and magnitude of his body's magnetic push and pull forces. That would be walking on water without touching it. Perhaps it is some force that we don't know **** about.

But "immortal" is OUT of the question.. Ah...

I think your perspective on these divine occasions are too humane. Too much based on what you perceive is real. This an universe of possibility.

Yes, correct, but it seems that mass has to obey some laws that are equal for all.. Further more, that masses need some guidance to accept their faith as ordered by the powers that be whom in history always were entwangled with religion.. And one more note,, The claim is divine occasions.. Without peer verifiable data. A hearsay of the first kind.. and thus nothing more then that.. Claims. And that is exacly what Thomas stated.

Well it does. This page that you have linked to makes this non-credible person a hero.

And he was. The gall to encode in a state founding document a statement like "The freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Instead of your life belongs to god, your liberty to your government and the pursuit to happiness to the church.

Very interesting in two ways. First to see that people think that every despicable person is working for the truth and secondly that people kind of deify such persons no matter if their writing bs. It is debated that this guy is a Freemason which makes me cringe. I mean I'm not blaming every Freemason of being liars but I know that their liabilities lie with some place else.

I don't care whether he was a freemason, a sunworshipper, or the Janitor of the WTC buildings.. It is his writing that counts, not the occupation of the writer.. And yes, what he wrote may have advanced his own "thoughts and beliefs" of course, but that by itself doesn't change the factuality of his statements concerning the Christian Belief system.... I notice there is no URL with the retort of the Religion IN that time.

I guess, They knew a checkmate when they saw one.

btw, "First to see that people think that every despicable person is working for the truth " are you saying here that a despicable person never tells the truth? Or the fact that he tells the truth, makes him despicable?

Reputation your way, for discussing this.

[elirien]

Sorry to interupt a smoothly going reply , but that has to read "To me..". I have had that opinion for a little longer then that.


Ok. Then you know this information for 300 years and I 3 years good 'nuff :) It still doesn't make anyone of us a "divine reference" on these matters.



But the officiail account isn't? ;-) That is a tad strange, not?


Which office is that? Scientifically that could be accepted as theory but other wise well it is like two dudes hanging out and saying "If I were head of state I would kill everyone who makes noise on sunday". no offense.


Giving permission to the cleaner, in my eyes, is playing with DNA...


Tsarion?


But "immortal" is OUT of the question.. Ah...


What has that to do with your "Jesus walking on water" example?


Yes, correct, but it seems that mass has to obey some laws that are equal for all.. Further more, that masses need some guidance to accept their faith as ordered by the powers that be whom in history always were entwangled with religion.. And one more note,, The claim is divine occasions.. Without peer verifiable data. A hearsay of the first kind.. and thus nothing more then that.. Claims. And that is exacly what Thomas stated.


Well a book is a book. Making a book holy is totally what the individual makes of it. If you accept that that book is divine in some sort of way you are already moving materialistic science away from what you perceive as reality. That is the first bent in your solid matter universe. I am not claiming that faith is something that changes reality. I am just saying that materialism is a faith and it is not madder then believing a vengeful god who got ****** off at people and drown them at some point in time. Thomas Paine has made serious errors in what can be proved and that makes him not so credible at all when you look at it rationally.


And he was. The gall to encode in a state founding document a statement like "The freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
Instead of your life belongs to god, your liberty to your government and the pursuit to happiness to the church.


Nice sentiments. His revolutionary group have done quite some job. I would recommend you to look at those times and the origins of America according to Francis Bacon, Jüri Lina ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7652891847477492406&hl=en ), and the guys who analyzed the Architecture of Washington D.C. ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5839084912030464561&hl=en one of two documentaries). There are also some stuff that Bill Cooper made in the Mystery Babylon series connecting America's Destiny to what was and is going on. It makes people understand the revolution brigade. What their intentions are and how these people connect with the ideals of Secret Societies.


I don't care whether he was a freemason, a sunworshipper, or the Janitor of the WTC buildings.. It is his writing that counts, not the occupation of the writer.. And yes, what he wrote may have advanced his own "thoughts and beliefs" of course, but that by itself doesn't change the factuality of his statements concerning the Christian Belief system.... I notice there is no URL with the retort of the Religion IN that time.



I guess, They knew a checkmate when they saw one.



btw, "First to see that people think that every despicable person is working for the truth " are you saying here that a despicable person never tells the truth? Or the fact that he tells the truth, makes him despicable?



The Christian mythologists tell that their Satan made war against the Almighty,...

...They promised him ALL the Jews, ALL the Turks by anticipation, nine-tenths of the world beside, and Mahomet into the bargain. After this, who can doubt the bountifulness of the Christian Mythology?


How can you document that? That's what makes him despicable. Even though perhaps he meant the crusaders it's still ignorant and factually wrong.

I meant by that actually that most researchers **** people off (as far as I have observed of course). That emotion sometimes guide people to false assumptions.



Reputation your way, for discussing this.

Thanks TranceAm. Am allways ready for a good and productive debate ;)

[micjer]

This is a great movie. It outlines the 9-11 conspiracy very well and explains the federal reserve like I have never seen.

I am not an expert in ancient religion so I will reserve comment on the first part. If nothing else it made me think. :mfr_omg:


As I am watching this, I am thinking why do not more people want to know about this. I have laid seeds yet they don't seem to "water the plants"!!

This is a must see for those that haven't seen it. David Icke tells much of the same story but I find he drags it on a bit.

[Ashatav]

A great debunk site of Zeitgeist part 1

HERE (http://www.zeitgeistresponse.info/index.html)

http://beyondthephysical.blogspot.com/


Cheers!

[777 The Great Work]

That rings true with me but which story is true? Perhaps one of the Jesus stories is made by the mystery schools? It is a very great probability.



Well I didn't understand anything from the above paragraph. sorry :)


]Well why did you use Thomas Paine as a source? I think and this is just an opinion that this guy is a teacher of the mystery religion, the exoteric Osirian cycle rather then a man of fact. I don't believe in any mass religion but I am slowly deciphering the method or the 'rythm' so to speak of these exoterically astrological but esoterically philosophical themes that these mass religions that claim that they are for the individual use very often.

By the way, slapping the Muslim label on Turks is very very ignorant. There are now investigations for the Khazar Turks who became Jews long before the times this document was written. Original Turks practiced shamanism before and even some during the Ottoman Empire's reign. There are satanists called Yezidis, Orthodox Christians and many other religious aims. A Turk is a muslim who follows "Mahomet" (which some claim was obvious slander from the mystery schools, mutilating the name Baphomet. His name is Muhammed, Mehmet, Mahmut and other derivations in Turkish and I believe Mohammad is the Arabian original) is quite ignorant and generalizing like claiming Americans are Christians.

I know that in that time the Ottoman Empire was the sole state of Muslims but it doesn't mean that it was a Turkish Empire. The divan was almost all together non-Turkish besides the Sultans whose mothers were again non-Turkish. You could claim that the people of the Ottoman Empire were Turkish but that smells quite fantasy since I can't believe that the libido of that tribe wouldn't quite reach 2 continent's and that they invaded land by slaughtering everyone (quite the contrary happened which is historically proven and I am too lazy to find you the articles concerning that. Look it up. And btw Atilla is a European Hun :) )

This eradicates quite many of the credibility points of this guy who in his claims never once wrote down from which sources he is taking his claims from.

Map 1: http://www.public.iastate.edu/~cfford/342ottomanempire.gif

Map 2: http://www.ata.boun.edu.tr/Faculty/Nadir%20Ozbek/courses/Hist121/Maps/OE_1683-1800.jpg


Ok. I could rant and go on for hours and pages but I need to work to feed myself :) Take care.

I think the errors you could see at the links to the videos and it would be nice of you if you could point to the direct claim in lets say zeitgeist refuted minute 5 where it says "bla bla bla Jesus bla bla". This is quite tiring :)

The story is an allegory and only true in the sense of the proccess of awakening within mankind. Its all symbolic,where do you want to start? The Zeitgeist is only one level of the mysteries. There are at least 7.