View Full Version : The Bible question
beren
10-30-2009, 11:37 PM
These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:
What do you think of Bible?
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Why people connect Bible with religion?
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...
Now really WHY on all above?
Ammit
10-30-2009, 11:57 PM
These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:
What do you think of Bible?
I personaly think the bible was a truth but having been modified so many times, who now knows the truth of it?
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
I dont know?
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
I never have and do not plan to either?
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
I dont know, its a book but who knows if it is actually truthfull?
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
I wont discredit anything that I do not understand.
Why people connect Bible with religion?
I connect the bible with religion simply because when ever religion is mentioned to me , so is the bible.
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
I dont avoid it, simply never read it in its entirety.
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
because of whispers?, tell some one something, ask them to pass it on. You wont get the same story at the end of the line.
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Dont know.
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Because we humans cannot agree.
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
Maybe it is written in a way that we want to read it
Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...
Now really WHY on all above?
Well , these are my honest answers, they come from someone who sits on the fence, some one who needs to see what is there, some one who can read the latest novel and say, um, that was good. I never have read the bible, i do not yet plan too soon either. If I decide to gain a faith of any sort it will be with my heart involved and not my head.
TheObserver
10-30-2009, 11:58 PM
1 it's just a book
2 people take it too seriously
3 because of the readers with superiority complexes
4 of course not
5 perhaps they they know it's just a book and who say's they're unsuccessful
6 it's a religious text
7 perhaps other things are on their minds
8 people think it's more than a book
9 define root out
10 again superiority complex
11 which of it's many sometimes conflicting messages
beren
10-31-2009, 12:02 AM
Well , these are my honest answers, they come from someone who sits on the fence, some one who needs to see what is there, some one who can read the latest novel and say, um, that was good. I never have read the bible, i do not yet plan too soon either. If I decide to gain a faith of any sort it will be with my heart involved and not my head.
Thanks Ammit for honesty!
:original:
I would add on your last sentence that I think a man should use both his head and heart... they come in pair ,don`t they? :lol3:
Ammit
10-31-2009, 12:06 AM
My head could be confused, or read something wrong. However my heart would surely show the way.
beren
10-31-2009, 12:18 AM
What do you think of Bible?
I think it is a word of God
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
because they are scared of certain things written there
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
sheer stupidity
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
of course not
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
they do not like the truths said there, and they are not successful because we see that despite great effort Bible is still a very sought after book
Why people connect Bible with religion?
because religion was attached to it very early in human history and also religion use it as cloak for their deeds
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
they are scared that somebody will label them as Christian loonies
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
because it tells the truth and simply some can not tolerate that but they are not succeeding in their effort against the Bible
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
above answer matches really and it is not successful since of divine intervention throughout centuries
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
because of capability of an eye opener to people and religion can not allow that because it looses greatly the submission of masses and their wealth
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
because it is holy spirit who inspired it ,not human mind
That are my answers...
Ammit
10-31-2009, 12:33 AM
Beren , I mean no dissrespect when i ask these questions.
Do you think god would have given man a choice?
Do you think god would have been interested in promoting his book like a pedlar?
Would he still love man even if the book was rejected?
beren
10-31-2009, 12:45 AM
Beren , I mean no dissrespect when i ask these questions.
Do you think god would have given man a choice?
Do you think god would have been interested in promoting his book like a pedlar?
Would he still love man even if the book was rejected?
Those are excellent questions!
God HAS given man a choice. We chose this reality but with choice comes responsibility so we are living our choice now.
No, I think God did enough to promote his word through ages ,when time comes for setting the bills right no one would have an excuse that he or she did not know. After all it`s been translated into all spoken and a lot of dead languages, it was printed in almost 6 billion copies and many more things.
Virtually,every person on planet in one point of their life have a chance to meet with God`s word. It is up to them what will they choose. Someone may not physically have or read the Bible but if they came in touch with the message from other people and really believe in or dis believe in it ,then all was covered so to say.
No one will be able to excuse themselves in the future that they didn`t know...
The point is not in the book itself, the point is in the message from that book.
Many hate or throw the Bible point because they do not understand or have a bad experience with "churchianity"...
Bible is above that.
"For God so loved a man that he even gave his son for their redemption "
I believe I made a good quote...
What do you think of Bible?
I think it's the most valuable text ever printed. It was penned by man but inspired of God. I have never, in my life, read a more profound, intelligent, wise and spiritual book. If I had to go somewhere for a long time and be allowed only one possession, I would take the Bible with me.
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
In short, there's two main reason. The first is that people have been burned by "religion" -- and often brought up in "religion". They've never really read the Bible themselves, with any amount of diligence. They just watched all the hypocrite church gowers around them from a young age, and figured: "Well that's how Bible people are, I don't want a part of that". So they are literally turned away from a God that they never got a chance to know because of hypocrites. However, God will call them back once they've learned their lessons.
The second reason is that some people just can't stand the thought that there is a creator and that Jesus Christ is savior. These people, through pride, ego and self centeredness (even though the claim the opposite from mountain tops) flatly refuse to understand that they are the "created" not the "creator". These people want to be the creators and they want to decide, without restraint, what they do and what they choose to do. This is a rebellious spirit which is rampant on earth. What they don't understand is that they are children, and need guidance. If they knew all there was to know about using their own discernment, they wouldn't have been placed on this earth to learn. Yet they run around declaring themselves to be AS Gods -- just like Satan. His whole problem in the first place is that he wanted to take God's thrown (and he was thrown out of the heavens for it). So this is a very dangerous attitude.
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
It is because they look at televangelists, and cult leaders and door knockers like JW's and Mormons, they look at how hypocritical these people and churches are and they make the assumption that that's what the Bible has caused and they pin it all on God, unfairly. However, they don't understand that these pseudo Christian churches are not conducting themselves according to God's word and are an abomination.
The only way to understand the Bible and have a relationship with God is to sit down and read it, through diligent prayer. However, most people (especially these days) are far to busy to bother doing that. They don't mind channeling lesser beings though. ie: "guides", which (by their own admission) can be evil and lead them astray. I don't know why they don't simply meditate on the "source" - "The Alpha and the Omega". If all these Guides exist, surely there must have been a FIRST. That is God. It's all rather simple really - but pride gets in the way.
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
Most people prefer to spend their energy exclaiming how terrible the Bible is, by projecting the deeds of man onto it, instead of simply reading it and finding out that man (from the beginning) has acted in contrast to the principles of the Bible.
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
They think they're successful. But it's very hard to argue with an ignorant person. I've learned that there's no point. I will spent time with someone if they want to discuss the Bible, but if they're not interested, I have no will to force them. The first thing I tell people is don't listen to me - go and read it yourself. Ask God for discernment. That is why I shake my head when people accuse me of trying to spread my "beleifs". I have only one "beleif": "Read the Bible" - find out what's in it. Pray for discernment. I have nothing much more to say other than that. However, it is sad they the continue to belittle people who DO take the time to read the Bible (and understand, the best they can -- through prayer) it and have a relationship with God, even though they (themselves) have only the vaguest idea of what's actually in it. Some people belittle the Bible and they've never even held one in their hands.
Why people connect Bible with religion?
This is a huge problem. This is why I constantly say on the forums: "I am not religious". I will declare that Jesus is Lord. I will relate my experiences to my understanding of the Bible. But that doesn't make me religious! It is a tremendous display of utter ignorance when people start using the word "religion and religious" around me for even mentioning the name: Jesus or God. The Bible is not a religion. It is a text. It is unfortunate that man has made religions from the Bible. It is even more unfortunate that people pin the misdeeds of man on the Bible, when they are acting in CONTRAST to it.
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
Quite simply, because they don't have the patience and can't be bothered to find out what the Bible actually says. It's all too hard for them. That's why the Bible says: "The path is narrow". They would rather take the easy road (with bells and whistles), and belittle people who have read the Bible and have developed a relationship with God, THROUGH reading it.
Most people only know a few cleche verses of the Bible, which they use to deflect conversation of it. It surprises me how many - people "quote the Bible" with words that aren't even in it. Then they wonder why you're trying to explain to them that they don't know anything about the Bible. They don't understand that you can easily tell.
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
Because (as the Bible states) this world is currently controlled by Satan and his demons. They cannot stand people to develop a relationship with God, so they persecute anyone who does read the Bible and live according to its wisdom to scare the others away. Otherwise, they try to corrupt the Bible "reader" and then possess them, so that they can turn people away via that method. ie: Catholic Church. This is why so many of them like little boys. They're possessed!
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Because it is the word of God, and no one can root out this word - no matter how hard they try. This world has housed a putrid stench of evil since the beginning, and that evil cannot stand the words: "Jesus is Lord", and if those words could be eradicated, it would most certainly have been done by now. No one will ever undermine the will (or word) of God.
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Quite simply, because the Vatican is a satanic organization founded on Pagan roots, that adopted Christianity because they couldn't get rid of it. There's an old saying: "If you can't beat them, join them". Then, the Roman Catholic church did it's very best to use the words of the Bible to control the people. However, they did not like the idea of people reading the Bible for themselves, so they "told people what the Bible says" and burned or persecuted people who said anything different (ie: what the Bible actually SAYS). This practice is still alive today, throughout pseudo Christianity.
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
I hear time and time again -- the old cleche: "Oh the Bible has been written and rewritten. The original meaning is lost". Actually, the Bible (KJV) was translated ONCE, from the original Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew texts. Also, I do believe that God (in his power) has the ability to keep the words that he wants in there.
I notice that practically every religion and church these days is making their own "revised" versions. Well, they can keep them because I'll stick with the KJV which has been in print for hundreds of years. I do not believe that God would allow the most widely circulated (and original "Non Catholic" version) of the Bible (translated from the original Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew) to have been leading people astray for hundreds of years. So I am quite content with the KJV.
14 Chakras
10-31-2009, 01:08 AM
Perhaps some choose to connect to the Living Word in their hearts rather than ancient words on paper that have led to so much bloodshed and confusion.
Stargazer1965
10-31-2009, 01:13 AM
These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:
What do you think of Bible?
OT is the recipe for tyranny...NT is the diluted road map to ascension
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Let's see is the priest chasing little boys and girls...or the tyrannical nun beating little kids with rods...Things I would not do to a dog..Welcome to Christianity...table for 2...will that be hitting to non-hitting section
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
I DARE because i lived it...smelled it ...breathed it...and in the end whatever message that was in there never made it through the guilt and abuse...So yeah ...I DARE
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
PLease see above
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Aesop's fables are still around but I don't believe slow and sure Tortoise got the blue ribbon
Why people connect Bible with religion?
I saw it in all the pews.....
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...
Now really WHY on all above?
I have to give up....this isn't good for my soul...
You get where I was going...
Perhaps some choose to connect to the Living Word in their hearts rather than ancient words on paper that have led to so much bloodshed and confusion.
Chakras, the Bible never lead to bloodshed and confusion. It is the sinful nature of man that lead to bloodshed and confusion.
Here is what I would like you to do. Find a part of history (where there was bloodshed and confusion), and then find the part of the Bible which declares that's how people should behave.
There ARE parts of the Bible where God did declare that certain people declare war. However, God is a righteous God and if he commands that evil be eradicated -- then so be it.
Nevertheless, these were in ancient times and are few. It doesn't explain why humanity, throughout the ages, have warred with each other (without the command of God). It doesn't explain why so many hypocrites use the Bible for their own means.
WAR exists between good and evil. God allows evil to persist, only while it serves the purpose of letting people learn their lessons.
If you want to understand the Bible, I highly insist that you read it. However, it is unfair to say that all the problems of man are cased by the Bible - because if man adhered to God's word, there would be no suffering.
We cause our suffering on ourselves. It is not fair to blame God, or his word.
bellsisland
10-31-2009, 01:15 AM
These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:
What do you think of Bible?
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Why people connect Bible with religion?
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...
Now really WHY on all above?
I think the old and new testament is a code.
People freak out when discussing it because it is a code.
People who bash a book that have never read are ill informed.
Please explain Judicable, I do not understand.
People who discredit the bible just increase its' mystery.
People connect the bible with religion because it is considered to be the words of God and Jesus.
I have never met anyone who avoided talking about the bible.
The bible is respected and reviled, which only increases its' mystery.
If you mean root out the bible in the sense of saying it's not true a lot of people do that quite successfully.
I am not sure the Catholic church murdered and tortured over the mass consumption of the bible. Perhaps this occurred when the Protestants reformed? Thankfully Christianity rose above the restrictions to the general public having their own personal copies of the bible.
I wouldn't say the message is perfectly clear.
Why is the bible so popular? Because it is a code and a living code at that.
777 The Great Work
10-31-2009, 01:15 AM
The bible or apple is a book of fruit that is hidden from the profane.It is a sacred fig tree,which hides its fruit beneath the leaves of the literal interpretations. As a woman hides her sacred parts beneath the garment ,or apron of fig leaves,so is wisdom.
Its a beautiful piece of music,in which the end is the beginning.The highs and lows and crash of the symbols,band all things together.It is not a book of history,it is a book of Now. Its the book of the Supper man of the red and blue.Its about you
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http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/6466/supperpie.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/)
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14 Chakras
10-31-2009, 01:22 AM
I'm not getting the pictures 777 but I agree with you generally speaking.
I agree the bible is indeed symbolic, and it is a story about us overcoming our own darkness, growing in consciousness, finding the saviour within, the Christ consicousness within, hearing and heeding it's voice, overcoming the carnal mind / ego, picking up our own cross and walking it to the top of the hill, where we give up the spirit / ego as Jesus gave up the spirit, and are reborn as the Living Christ, who we really are, Sons and Daughters of the infinite.
:)
Zeddo
10-31-2009, 01:23 AM
These days here on Avalon a quarrel erupted. Opposite sides are throwing rocks in form of words on each other.
Therefore I ask now:
Now really WHY on all above?
What do you think of Bible?
It is a compilation of texts that have been altered and re-altered to suit the manipulators. This was primarily accomplished in circa 380
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Because you are dealing with their direct belief construct. If you take this away from them and they are spiritually shallow, they no longer have anything off which to base reality as they understand and know it.
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
Being self opinionated is a means of them who are spiritually dead to have a say. They wish to be seen as sages, etc when they actually do not have a clue.
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
I do not understand this question.
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Success or lack of has different measurements, it all depends on what your approach is, what your argument is, what your belief is. It also depends on whether or not you have an open mind and what you regard as truth. You also need to clarify your standpoint as to what you mean by the bible being discredited. Discredited as the infallable word of god? What exactly?
Why people connect Bible with religion?
Because the two are inseparable.
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
They would have to answer this for themselves, it is not for us to answer for others and their lack of viewpoint in this subject.
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
When you have the means that the PTB have at their disposal and you have an end game agenda, you would ensure that the single most important document driving this agenda was spread far and wide. Add to that the scenario of telling a child they are not to do something.....yes, they will go and do it. Burn a book and everyone wants to know what was being held from them. Ban a book and everybody wants a copy. Psychological games.
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
You need to explain this in more depth. The simplistic answer is that it is the prime tool of the end-game.
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Same as previously stated. I suggest you study this more in depth as it was not only "christian" sects that murdered (and still do) in the name of their god. This is not the sole franchise of christianity and the bible.
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
Once again, clarity is required in this question. What message exactly are you talking about. The message varies from old to new testament, clearly. Do you mean the one about Jesus being the way the truth and the life, the only way to eternal life? Please explain.
Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...
I can't say I know your answers as I haven't read your posts. I went through my religious fervor many years ago and usually refrain from this topic. This one however asked for interaction and hence my replies, for what they are worth.
Z
orthodoxymoron
10-31-2009, 01:23 AM
Q. What do you think of Bible?
A. It is a collection of many books...with both good and evil content.
Q. Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
A.Because it is represented as being the ultimate authority for faith and practice (indeed the very Word of God)...and because it promises eternal life and heaven to those who believe and obey...and threatens hell and/or death to those who doubt and disobey. With the stakes being represented as being this high...the fact that the messages are conflicting and contradictory...makes people go crazy...sometimes literally.
Q. Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
A.Because so many people have been hit over the head with so many 'thus saith the Lord's' by so many Bible-thumping zealots who think they're right...and everyone else is wrong. They don't want to go near a book that seems to make people act like that.
Q. Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
A. Guilt by association.
Q. Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
A. Many people's minds are made up...and they do not wish to be confused by the facts. 'A man convinced against his will...is of the same opinion still.'
Q. Why do people connect Bible with religion?
A. Because religious people read and quote Bibles...and because religious schools are often called Bible Colleges.
Q. Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
A. Because they don't want to get into a shouting match.
Q. Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden?
A. Because of the volatility of the messages contained therein...and the explosive implications and ramifications.
Q. Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
A. Because people do not wish to be forbidden access to that which they consider to be forbidden truth.
Q. Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
A. Because this threatened the authority and absolute power of Mother Church.
Q. Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
A. I'm not sure that the message is crystal clear. Look at the number of churches in the Yellow Pages. Each one thinks they have the correct interpretation of that crystal clear message.
Please don't misunderstand. I think that everyone should read the Bible...but I do not think that educated people dressed in suits and robes...should play god...control, repress, and generally screw people up with the 'Word of God'...in Churches of Ignorance and Intolerance. In fairness...I am equally harsh regarding New Age Messiahs...Channeled Wisdom from Ascended Masters...and Thousand Dollar Transformational Weekends.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are an interesting tangent to the Holy Bible. Why have 'they' been so very secretive and restrictive about them? Also...who really decided upon which books should be included in the 66 books of the Bible Canon? Any hidden agendas or redactions? Why aren't the Teachings of Jesus considered to be the Christian Canon?
The 'Word of the Son of God' (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit Within) is God's Word to me...orthodoxymoron.
I'm not getting the pictures 777 but I agree with you generally speaking.
I agree the bible is indeed symbolic, and it is a story about us overcoming our own darkness, growing in consciousness, finding the saviour within, the Christ consicousness within, hearing and heeding it's voice, overcoming the carnal mind / ego, picking up our own cross and walking it to the top of the hill, where we give up the spirit / ego as Jesus gave up the spirit, and are reborn as the Living Christ, who we really are, Sons and Daughters of the infinite.
:)
Chakras, that's not what the Bible says. According to the Bible, we cannot overcome our own darkness. We're detached from the living vine (through sin), which we do not have the power to overcome ourselves. So Jesus (who is perfect) came to earth to 1). Teach us how to behave and act and to worship the father 2). Die for us (in our place) to atone us of our sins and give us an opportunity to be grafted back onto the living vine (should we accept). To accept, all we need to do is look at how he demonstrated love and to do our best to apply that in our own lives.
Jesus did say that once we pass through this life, we will be "as" he is. ie: Able to perform miracles. This is of course, conditional, on whether we chose to love. However, we wont BE Christ. Only Christ is Christ. Unfortunately, you are mixing up a lot of new age philosophies with God's word -- and they are contrary to God's word.
However, as far as I understand the Bible, you did get one right.
"We really are, Sons and Daughters of the infinite" (ie: God - The Creator, The Alpha and the Omega, The Beginning and the End)
Zeddo
10-31-2009, 01:35 AM
Chakras, the Bible never lead to bloodshed and confusion. It is the sinful nature of man that lead to bloodshed and confusion.
Here is what I would like you to do. Find a part of history (where there was bloodshed and confusion), and then find the part of the Bible which declares that's how people should behave.
There ARE parts of the Bible where God did declare that certain people declare war. However, God is a righteous God and if he commands that evil be eradicated -- then so be it.
Nevertheless, these were in ancient times and are few. It doesn't explain why humanity, throughout the ages, have warred with each other (without the command of God). It doesn't explain why so many hypocrites use the Bible for their own means.
WAR exists between good and evil. God allows evil to persist, only while it serves the purpose of letting people learn their lessons.
If you want to understand the Bible, I highly insist that you read it. However, it is unfair to say that all the problems of man are cased by the Bible - because if man adhered to God's word, there would be no suffering.
We cause our suffering on ourselves. It is not fair to blame God, or his word.
M1, I suggest you really and URGENTLY study this subject at great depth. This is not the place (or maybe it is, who knows) for this subject to be broached. There are MANY explicit scripture\s where "God" tells his "people" to take no prisoners, to kill the men and children and women who are past the age of procreation and even all the animals.
I suggest that you do not use this forum for the furtherance of christian belief as there are forums specifically designed for this topic where the sheep can all go baaaaaah together.
This forum was meant for the awakening of the masses, not the dumbing down of them.
Now where is that person who said they didn't see an onslaught from the religious right wing?
Before you decide to attack me, understand that I talk from MANY years of very active church affiliation and I was not a pew warmer. I was one of the few who really did believe and acted on those beliefs, that is, laying hands on the sick and seeing them recover (yes I was party to many miracles), going out to the "heathen" where others were too scared to go and "spreading the word" etc. I did not walk away from that very lightly and without great consternation, so please, if you try to preach to me, forget it. I have been there, and DONE it. Now may I suggest you find a more suitable forum for this.
Z
dolphin
10-31-2009, 01:37 AM
Chakras, the Bible never lead to bloodshed and confusion. It is the sinful nature of man that lead to bloodshed and confusion.
Here is what I would like you to do. Find a part of history (where there was bloodshed and confusion), and then find the part of the Bible which declares that's how people should behave.
There ARE parts of the Bible where God did declare that certain people declare war. However, God is a righteous God and if he commands that evil be eradicated -- then so be it.
Nevertheless, these were in ancient times and are few. It doesn't explain why humanity, throughout the ages, have warred with each other (without the command of God). It doesn't explain why so many hypocrites use the Bible for their own means.
WAR exists between good and evil. God allows evil to persist, only while it serves the purpose of letting people learn their lessons.
If you want to understand the Bible, I highly insist that you read it. However, it is unfair to say that all the problems of man are cased by the Bible - because if man adhered to God's word, there would be no suffering.
We cause our suffering on ourselves. It is not fair to blame God, or his word.
why do you constantly assume people have not read the bible from those who disagree w you? you use that as an argument everytime.
you completely contradict yourself when claiming that there are instances where "god" allowed people to declare war. you make no sense and are really sounding like religious dogma.
we are all gods, and there is no such thing as "good and evil".... that was for the uneducated masses centuries ago... there's positive and negative energy.
wow, you really are a bible thumper
zeddo, very articulate.
I suggest that you do not use this forum for the furtherance of christian belief as there are forums specifically designed for this topic where the sheep can all go baaaaaah together.
Zeddo, I was replying to a post with my views.
This forum was meant for the awakening of the masses, not the dumbing down of them.
Now where is that person who said they didn't see an onslaught from the religious right wing?
I am not religious. I am not trying to conduct an onslaught. I am responding to a thread, sharing my views as I understand them.
Before you decide to attack me,
I am extremely dismayed with your response to me, but have no wish to attack you.
understand that I talk from MANY years of very active church affiliation and I was not a pew warmer. I was one of the few who really did believe and acted on those beliefs, that is, laying hands on the sick and seeing them recover (yes I was party to many miracles), going out to the "heathen" where others were too scared to go and "spreading the word" etc. I did not walk away from that very lightly and without great consternation, so please, if you try to preach to me, forget it. I have been there, and DONE it. Now may I suggest you find a more suitable forum for this.
Z
Zeddo, I understand that you have developed a hatred for religion. But you'll be pleased to understand that I share that hatred. You're preaching to the choir -- really. I know that religion turns more people away from God than any atheist ever could. I have stated as such.
I have no wish to belittle you or become angry at you, because I can see clearly that you're already angry and upset enough. All I ask is that you reconsider what you have written to me, because you seem to have misunderstood my views and my purpose here.
You'll find that the vast majority of my threads have absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. There are a few discussions (within my threads) where I was accused of being a bible thumper, but I didn't ask for that. The topics weren't even about the Bible - nor did I intend them to be.
I don't want to see this topic get hijacked by the hatred of religion. It is one topic out of thousands. It is a Biblical topic. People are going to share their biblical views. You should try to allow it and not get so upset.
beren
10-31-2009, 01:46 AM
M1, I suggest you really and URGENTLY study this subject at great depth. This is not the place (or maybe it is, who knows) for this subject to be broached. There are MANY explicit scripture\s where "God" tells his "people" to take no prisoners, to kill the men and children and women who are past the age of procreation and even all the animals.
I suggest that you do not use this forum for the furtherance of christian belief as there are forums specifically designed for this topic where the sheep can all go baaaaaah together.
This forum was meant for the awakening of the masses, not the dumbing down of them.
Now where is that person who said they didn't see an onslaught from the religious right wing?
Before you decide to attack me, understand that I talk from MANY years of very active church affiliation and I was not a pew warmer. I was one of the few who really did believe and acted on those beliefs, that is, laying hands on the sick and seeing them recover (yes I was party to many miracles), going out to the "heathen" where others were too scared to go and "spreading the word" etc. I did not walk away from that very lightly and without great consternation, so please, if you try to preach to me, forget it. I have been there, and DONE it. Now may I suggest you find a more suitable forum for this.
Z
Guys,guys, I got to go to sleep now it`s 3AM here! I will gladly type tomorrow!
P.S.
Zeddo
I will especially answer you because you are the first who started with "hate" comments...Please refrain from them.
And be over your personal thinkings...if you manage that in this conversation then you are very welcome,if you wanna fight,forget it!
I think this forum is sheer jewel where people threat others with respect no matter how different their attitudes are. That is the one of the reasons why after whole year of reading I decided to be active here.
Let us all keep that,let us destroy utterly hate because it is not constructive matter.
Love and blessings,
Beren
beren
10-31-2009, 01:48 AM
why do you constantly assume people have not read the bible from those who disagree w you? you use that as an argument everytime.
you completely contradict yourself when claiming that there are instances where "god" allowed people to declare war. you make no sense and are really sounding like religious dogma.
we are all gods, and there is no such thing as "good and evil".... that was for the uneducated masses centuries ago... there's positive and negative energy.
wow, you really are a bible thumper
zeddo, very articulate.
Dolphin ,that counts for you too as well as for Zeddo...
See you all tomorrow! :original:
why do you constantly assume people have not read the bible from those who disagree w you? you use that as an argument everytime.
you completely contradict yourself when claiming that there are instances where "god" allowed people to declare war. you make no sense and are really sounding like religious dogma.
we are all gods, and there is no such thing as "good and evil".... that was for the uneducated masses centuries ago... there's positive and negative energy.
wow, you really are a bible thumper
zeddo, very articulate.
Dolphin. I respect you - but not your attitude.
Please try to be nicer. That's all I will say.
I have no will to argue with you and I don't want to give you reason to follow me around on the forum typing insult after insult.
You can't stand the Bible or the deity of God.
Ok - I get it.
dolphin
10-31-2009, 01:49 AM
this is quite a turn off as i don't think avalon is about discussing religious dogma. i agree w zeddo, as m1, you are turning avalon into your own personal journal. how many posts are all about you and your beliefs. and if anyone disagrees you attack them.
this is not what avalon is for. take your religion and bible to a church or fundamentalist forum.
this is quite a turn off as i don't think avalon is about discussing religious dogma. i agree w zeddo, as m1, you are turning avalon into your own personal journal. how many posts are all about you and your beliefs. and if anyone disagrees you attack them.
this is not what avalon is for. take your religion and bible to a church or fundamentalist forum.
Dolphin, you are being very unfair.
Ross H
10-31-2009, 01:54 AM
Hello all,
Please play nice, this is not a Forum for argument, It is a Forum for discussion, a Forum for expressing one's opinion in a respectful, healthy manner.
Please, no personal attacks.
Thank you:original:
Peace always.:thumb_yello:
Ross. (jross)
Moxie
10-31-2009, 02:08 AM
xxx
777 The Great Work
10-31-2009, 02:12 AM
Here is another way to look at the bible, and life in general.
When you have two ii s , you can't C. CHRST:lol3:
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8663/49056027k.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/)
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6702/60656761.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/)
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3649/alphaorion3.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com/)
Steven
10-31-2009, 02:27 AM
Wrong forum.
Here is a good one for you guys: http://bibleforums.org/forum/index.php
and here: http://www.openbibleforum.org/forums/index.php?act=home
and here: http://biblescholarsforums.com/
Namaste, Steven
Wrong forum.
Here is a good one for you guys: http://bibleforums.org/forum/index.php
and here: http://www.openbibleforum.org/forums/index.php?act=home
and here: http://biblescholarsforums.com/
Namaste, Steven
Project Avalon and Project Camelot is a forum of open minded people who take all things into account.
It is not productive to choose for other people which source of information is useful and which isn't.
I am not on Project Camelot to preach what I believe. Nor is anyone else responding to this thread. I came here with the sole intention of finding people who are aware of the way the world works and the problems in the world.
It is unfortunate that the Bible cannot be mentioned without some people almost convulsing, but nevertheless, there's no harm in people expressing their opinions.
I have an idea for those who do not want to participate in this thread.
Don't click on it again. Problem solved.
Samarkis
10-31-2009, 02:53 AM
Hello all...........
Just a note to say that there are many paths to know Divine Creator....and as long as one reaches for kindness & views life as sacred............it truly doesn't matter which path.
It is interesting to note that the Essenes & Cathars had secret esoteric knowledge which has left them open to attack as they knew how to activate the christed consciousness.............a right that is every human beings priviledge...........
In my opinion, all humanity should embrace all knowledge that helps humanity and to seek out our strengths and goodness, no matter which path or tradition they hail.............
Namaste all !!!
In Light!
orthodoxymoron
10-31-2009, 03:43 AM
Can we not disagree...without being disagreeable? I never cease to be amazed at how touchy supposedly enlightened and spiritually advanced people can be. That goes for me as well. Perhaps it's because we are in a spiritual war. But we should still be open to contrary views and agendas. This forum is an international philosophical potpourri...and a philosophical food-for-thought fight. Well here's a video to stir up the hornet's nest just a little bit more! :mad3:YouTube - Ex-Christian NOW Atheist Speaks about christianity
Kinsuemei2
10-31-2009, 03:48 AM
What do you think of Bible?
I think much of the bible is based from texts from other ancient races and simply compiled from these ancient scriptures, if it teaches one thing it is that god writes on large stone slabs, just like Sumerians and not paper and parchment. It also has changed throughout the years, if you read from a 14th century bible it is extremely different from the ones we read today, yet not many people know this, simply because not many people have access to that kind of archive.
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Any person freaks out when their religion is attacked or felt the need to defend, this is human nature to protect what you hold close, one of our greatest gifts is our passion, yet it is also our one of our weaknesses.
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
We attack what we do not understand and unfortunately the 10 percent that have read it most of those do not understand it, or people take the bible literally instead of symbolically
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
Not unless they research the books history and have a decent education regarding theology and religion, in which case they should have read the bible anyway as you would read the book you research or you have no business talking about it.
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
To many Christians and in this day and age, especially in the USA the church has become a enterprise that is involved with incredible amounts of money, and if you agree with it or not people want to believe, this is not a bad thing, but do they understand what they are believing in.
Why people connect Bible with religion?
People have been conditioned to connect with this book, with religion, it mentions constructs like Jesus and it talks about god, and the beginnings of human existence.
Why people avoid often to even talking of Bible?
The Bible is a touchy subject and the rules stand true never discusses religion or politics. And as i stated there are many people that love to talk of the bible that have never actually turned the page.
Why Bible is the most translated, read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted, burned and forbidden?
The bible is a controversial book indeed, and any Christian worth their salt will admit there are factual errors in the bible, and words get mistranslated ‘especially the Greek version’ that was still approved, but Christianity is one of the largest religions in the world if not the largest, yet was not always or ever has been a beloved religion, to many discrepancies have pushed people away and the contractions that are found can be staggering, also the bible itself especially the King James bible a man who basically rewrote the bible as he saw fit, as a very cruel and deceptive man.
The bible itself was censored back in the ancient land there are many stories that never made the cut, just as I write a book I have a editor that keeps bits and loses parts of the story that might not fit into the publishing house ideal or vision of the end result so did the bible, and I have some examples.
The Life of Adam and Eve
The Book of Jubilees: This obscure Hebrew text offers an answer to a question that has vexed Christians for centuries if Adam and Eve only had sons, and if no other humans existed, who gave birth to humanity? This text reveals that Adam and Eve had nine children and that Cain's younger sister Awan became his wife. The idea that humanity was born of incest would have been radical and heretical.
The Book of Enoch: This scripture reads like a modern day action film, telling of fallen angels, bloodthirsty giants, an earth that had become home to an increasingly flawed humanity and a divine judgment to be rendered though denied a place in most Western Bibles; it has been used for centuries by Ethiopian Christians. Large portions of this book were found as part of the Dead Sea Scrolls.
The Infancy Gospel of Thomas: The only book that deals with young Jesus, it indicates that Jesus was a strong-willed child who one historian describes as "Dennis the Menace as God." The book reveals that at age five, Jesus may have killed a boy by pushing push him off a roof and then resurrected him. Perhaps too disturbing for inclusion in the Bible, this book seems to contain traditions, also known to the Koran.
The Gospel of Nicodemus: This is the story of Jesus’ trial and execution and his descent into hell. According to this gospel the Savior asserts his power over Satan by freeing patriarchs such as Adam, Isaiah and Abraham from Hell.
The Apocalypse of Peter: Peter's apocalypse suggests that there is a way out of punishment for evildoers and implies that the threat of the Apocalypse is a way for God to scare people into living a moral life, and committing fewer sins.
Translation is a matter that is more relevant in other questions further along.
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Again the Bible is a powerful book love it or hate it, it’s legacy has been set in stone and unless something extremely miraculous happened I do not expect people to turn from it, after all I have a friend that when I talk about ET’s he says it’s the devils work trying to distract us from the word. I believe the opposite, and I mean no offense by that, I simply believe religion is the distraction, but this is only my opinion and not to be taken to heart or as cannon, as ultimately I know nothing, and shall die like every man and face the truth with an open heart and mind.
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
That question could be posed with a counter question, why the Muslims, the Moore’s and Saracens were brutally hunted down and murdered for possessing the Koran, to answer my question
Because it was deemed Gods will at that time before the reformation Christians had no direction and they interperated the bible literally just as the grand inquisitors did;
John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."
yet the Muslim religion is a paradoxical version of the bible, the same prophets the same stories, just in different parts, yet we were told to kill as many of these heathens as humanly possible in the name of god, not very Christian is it? Or is it?
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
People have said the Freemasons wrote the bible they say the Roman Catholics wrote the bible, and specifically the Vatican, Pope Leo X had confessed in the early sixteenth century that "It has served us well, this myth of Christ” and he got very upset and condemned the modern world for catching on so to speak, and let us remember the translation of 1380 by John Wycliffe he loved the bible, and hated the organized church, and thus translated it out of Latin into English manuscripts, the Pope was so outraged out Wycliffe’s blasphemy he ordered his bones dug up crushed into powder and scattered into a river.
In the 1490s , Thomas Linacre, learned Greek so that he could translate the New testament, unfortunately Latin had become so corrupt that many of the ancient scripter’s were so difficult to translate and understand, it no longer preserved the message of the gospel, However the Vatican still maintained anybody who translated the scriptures to any other language other than Latin be put to death, the never intended that you read the bible, but Henry the 7th and 8th decided otherwise, as Christian kings.
I could go on but I shall move on to interpretation, the quest for Jesus always has ended in sorrow and hardship for those who go to the motherland and search for his history as barring the bible and Koran, he has none, he was written into history, this is unfortunate but no other evidence proves otherwise, that is the history, it does not make it fact, but when you look at the roman catholic religion and the Jesuits you understand the symbolism of the bible, Jesus was the Son meaning Sun in the sky, its an astrological book and the astrology adds up and makes sense, Jordan Maxwell can place into better words than I so I suggest you have a look at what he has to say and draw your own conclusions as to what you think about it.
I wish to thank Beren for making this post EXTREMELY enjoyable as when I am calm and collected I love discussing this, and one last note this is just my opinion and not to be taken as cannon, just with a pinch of salt.
Kinsuemei2
10-31-2009, 03:57 AM
I must say I agree with M1 this is an important subject in avalon, lets say for the sake of argument that declsification happens and Ets present themselves to the world, their will be many people who will question their faith, and for some of us who know a small amount of information on this matter it is up to us to help our fellow people,
no matter what religion or faith to adjust and perhaps find a way to show that the two can co exist, just because the bible tells us of this planet and this earth, that is not to say their is simply one bible, and to be honest it only tells us of one land,
and if people do not like the posts we do not have to comment right? their are plenty of issues, and things to do and read in Avalon, but as this is Avalon we must remain in harmony and remember that this place was created for the good of the people and place to come together as a church and to teach not preach truth.
Initiate
10-31-2009, 04:03 AM
It is not the delivery of the message that is important.
We should look at the heart of the message and head that.
If the heart of the message doesn't ring true with our thought adjuster (inner voice) then we should not let it guide us. See through the words no mater what source to the underpinning meaning. Think hard if the meaning doesn't jump out at you.
The Bible is one source of wisdom. Some things apply to our current situation and some do not. Draw from what ever source of wisdom presents itself. Do not idolise the source. The source is there to help us not rule us or be put up on an ivory tower to leave its meaning behind.
Steven
10-31-2009, 04:14 AM
...Project Avalon and Project Camelot is a forum of open minded people who take all things into account...
I'm sorry m1*. I have been harsh and I should have done it otherwise. Of course you can come up with your opinion on this subject, it is fine. But I still think it is the wrong place to discuss this kind of topic. It will simply attract confrontations. That is why I think it is better to discuss it where you will find like minded people about it.
At this very time in our evolution, we need to unite. All humanity need more than ever to unite. And their is no book, especially the bible, which as the power to unite all the people on Earth. Nor beliefs.
Personally, I am very close to Christ. I have always been. But there is a place in my heart to accept other faiths. My faith is not universal and this is not what will unite us all.
The reason many people like me, are reluctant to the bible is because it is the tool of the churches. The institutional churches. And the one who withhold the largest part of the genuine books in this library (bible means library) is the catholic church. Precisely, the Jesuits, the Franciscans and the Dominicans. Since the roman empire adopted Christianity as state religion under Constantin, the genuine manuscripts were locked in the Vatican and re-translated to be applied by the clergy.
Since that time, we have over 50 different versions of the bible, some very different from the others. Just take Mary as example, was she virgin or not? Who is the father of Jesus, Joseph? Archangel Gabriel? or the holy spirit? So many confusion was raised from these versions and manipulation. If there was one true genuine bible, I would be the one still reading it today. So which one is the true one? What should we trust in it? It has become the tool of the manipulators over the centuries...
I don't say there is no truth in it. I say it has been corrupted. Just like all tools the official stream system is throwing at us. Question everything, especially what comes from the main stream ideology, be it history, science, religion, politic, economy or spirituality.
Take care and Namaste, Steven
dolphin
10-31-2009, 04:50 AM
if you want a very interesting commentary on the bible, god, and religion, this piece is done very well and they've done their research. you will be amazed how similar all religions are and where their origins come from. the first third of the movie (video) covers these topics. he is also involved in project venus
http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
Zeddo
10-31-2009, 08:42 AM
Far out, now I am posting hate comments !!!
As they say in the classics, F*#k this for a game of tin soldiers.
It is not the delivery of the message that is important.
We should look at the heart of the message and head that.
If the heart of the message doesn't ring true with our thought adjuster (inner voice) then we should not let it guide us. See through the words no mater what source to the underpinning meaning. Think hard if the meaning doesn't jump out at you.
I would have to agree entirely with "If the heart of the message doesn't ring true with our thought adjuster (inner voice) then we should not let it guide us.". I read the Bible for many years before it "rang true". It's a very long book, and there are many things which I didn't understand the first time around. It's not a book I've read from cover to cover like a novel, but it is a book which I have cross examined and cross referenced, and I can honestly say through many years of diligent reading - it rings true to me. However, I am more than willing to divulge that I am STILL learning from it, and I still don't understand everything. I am sure I will reach the end of my life and still be reading and then thinking: *snap* "Oooooooh"...
The Bible is one source of wisdom. Some things apply to our current situation and some do not. Draw from what ever source of wisdom presents itself. Do not idolise the source. The source is there to help us not rule us or be put up on an ivory tower to leave its meaning behind.
I believe that the source of all wisdom is God. God provided us with the Bible to help us get through this life and conduct ourselves according to that wisdom. I am utterly sure there's a whole heap of things to reality that's not even in the Bible. Of course. Nevertheless, the Bible contains more than enough foundations and examples for us to learn from and apply it to our lives for the betterment of ourselves and all those around us.
beren
10-31-2009, 10:22 AM
Zeddo, do not be angry of my reply to you. It was straight forward telling you that no one has the right to confiscate this forum for their own wishes .
True M1 has a tough attitude but he is not insulting anyone.
But he is actually has a good point and that is -look through veil of deception of religion.
I know and understand that you were hurt and misused by your own church , I have been too.
But you can not blame God and Bible for that. It is the people who did that to you and me and M1. THEY hijacked Bible telling people their own sermons and occasionally telling them some verses from Bible but actually telling THEIR teaching or their ORGANIZATION teachings and in that very time YELLIN that this is THE BIBLE talking!!!
Bible is saying actually that we should not follow men because when the blind leads the blind ,both will fall in hole.
Do not connect Bible with religion and God and Jesus with wicked deeds of humanity.
God gave us a free will and look what we did with it! We messed up badly and now we whine how it is not our fault why we screwed all ...IT IS GOD who is to be blamed.
HOw would you react when you left your home for work and when returned you find it burned and destroyed by your children? And when you ask them why they did it -they reply that It is your fault for everything!
Zedo, you are very wellcome to say your opinion here on this thread but ,please friend, be above the patterns that drove you in your state of rage. I understand it and I am on your side since we have been used by religions and terribly lied about all regarding Bible and what it means being true Christian.
If I did follow my rage towards religions and would be a waste case now... We are so much above that my friend...
ANd THEY , I mean churches and all religions will pay the price for their age of blood shed in the name of God.
In revelation you find that God judges Babylon the great as mother of all harlots who deceived whole world and on her was found blood of all saints ,from Abel to present day us.
We have to defeat our own fears regarding the Bible, we have o give it a chance to reveal us the truth . We have to fight whenever reading it and when thoughts and coded religious dogma comes in mind, because it is blurring our view of the message written there.
Love and blessings,
beren
beren
10-31-2009, 10:44 AM
I'm sorry m1*. I have been harsh and I should have done it otherwise. Of course you can come up with your opinion on this subject, it is fine. But I still think it is the wrong place to discuss this kind of topic. It will simply attract confrontations. That is why I think it is better to discuss it where you will find like minded people about it.
At this very time in our evolution, we need to unite. All humanity need more than ever to unite. And their is no book, especially the bible, which as the power to unite all the people on Earth. Nor beliefs.
Personally, I am very close to Christ. I have always been. But there is a place in my heart to accept other faiths. My faith is not universal and this is not what will unite us all.
The reason many people like me, are reluctant to the bible is because it is the tool of the churches. The institutional churches. And the one who withhold the largest part of the genuine books in this library (bible means library) is the catholic church. Precisely, the Jesuits, the Franciscans and the Dominicans. Since the roman empire adopted Christianity as state religion under Constantin, the genuine manuscripts were locked in the Vatican and re-translated to be applied by the clergy.
Since that time, we have over 50 different versions of the bible, some very different from the others. Just take Mary as example, was she virgin or not? Who is the father of Jesus, Joseph? Archangel Gabriel? or the holy spirit? So many confusion was raised from these versions and manipulation. If there was one true genuine bible, I would be the one still reading it today. So which one is the true one? What should we trust in it? It has become the tool of the manipulators over the centuries...
I don't say there is no truth in it. I say it has been corrupted. Just like all tools the official stream system is throwing at us. Question everything, especially what comes from the main stream ideology, be it history, science, religion, politic, economy or spirituality.
Take care and Namaste, Steven
Steven , I like your reply. but see the previous comment addressed to Zeddo regarding connecting religions with Bible.
Yes they are using it as tool but in the sense of magical. How , well they desing it nicely ,put it in the special places in their churches, they do art work on Bile pages and hold it in their hand and preaching other stuff...
But actually todays "corrupted" Bible as many claim heavily, very heavily condemns all practises of churches and all deceptions in the world. Heavily.
That is why you have to re read it again and again and again. Think of this;
they came to conclusion that masses may posses Bibles in their homes but actually they do not read them SO whatever we (meaning church leaders) tell them, they will believe as it was spoken from the mouth of prophet himself.
I tried to talk with one priest ,high priest here in Serbia 10 years ago, and after I said: " well I do not find that in Bible ,the things you just said to me...!
He screamed on me saying:" How dare you? You just crawled from your egg shell yesterday and dare to question me? ME who is studying for over 30 years? How dare you you little ignorant...(I was 17 then)... His whole world of clergy and beong a high priest in Ortodox chruch was shaken by 17 year old young man asking him a question from Bible...
He knew then in his heart that the very Bible whom he claims to study is condemning him-badly!
Again , when talking about Bible ,I am not talking about religions or and particular Christian denomination. And still people think that .
It is because it is deeply inbedded in them the religious concept of believing in God.
Religion is a trick , a veil a blur view.
Why shoud I believe tricks or look through the veil when I can directly ask God and Jesus through prayer?
Why would I need second hand things when I can get them directly at the source?
Religious men and clergy and churches and all other worldlyy religions are nothing but LEECHES on the souls of humanity, using the natural born desire of man for spiritual closeness towards Creator.
Knowing God have nothing to do with being religious. How can I explain this better than knowing the most important person in your entire life-the ultimate VIP.
I do not need inbetween people to know that most important person in the universe, when that person wish to meet me over his word!
One day when I grow up spiritualy and in all other matters and be perfect I could then actually stand before God and talk with him as we are talking now.
Until then I will lean on him and his spirit to guide me and help me grow up and learn that beautiful language of love, the only language with we can talk with Creator and his son Jesus Christ.
Love and blessings,
Beren
beren
10-31-2009, 11:03 AM
What do you think of Bible?
I wish to thank Beren for making this post EXTREMELY enjoyable as when I am calm and collected I love discussing this, and one last note this is just my opinion and not to be taken as cannon, just with a pinch of salt.
You are welcome friend!
I have read your posts on other threads and think that your are fighting your own battle heavily... I want assure you that if you wish honestly and with open heart to find the truth-then God will help you find it. :original:
Often in the most hard-to-imagine ways ...
:original:
I have to tell you this experience of mine a lot of years ago.
I was on the crack point of really do I have to believe in the word of God or not and there was this woman who was an acuitance of my unckle. In that point of my life I trusted that woman wholeheartedly because she was honest and did experience some weird stuff ,very similar as you were writing in your posts.
Also she was dealing with sprirtism and was involved in heavy stuff then.
Nevetheless I trusted her and in that time was getting to know Bible.
Then I aske her a straight forward question: " Is this all true and has some validity?"
Shge looked at me, heavily sighed and breathing heavily...it lasted for some minutes and finally she said with tought time on her face -YES---
BUT!!! BUT!!! That was not all! Then she told me yes, but you better do not be involved in that since it is very heavy and hard....
Later I realised that she was tarot reader and horoscope practicioner and spiritist..BUT in the very moment when she was confronted with life and death question which could ruin or lift one souls---she was forced to tell the truth!!! Though she immidiatelly throw a lot of things on me and a lot of brakes not to explore Bible, she in that moment HAD to tell the truth.
Last 10 years we do not see eachother but she sunk deeper in trouble with entities and demons...she is still practising tarot and horoscopes.
The point is , that every person has to know the truth...What will they do with that fact -it is up to them...
Steven
10-31-2009, 11:05 AM
...Again , when talking about Bible ,I am not talking about religions or and particular Christian denomination. And still people think that .It is because it is deeply inbedded in them the religious concept of believing in God...
Well, if you want to avoid talking about religion when talking about the bible, you have to pick up your assembly one by one. You also have to choose well your ideas and theme. Ultimately, if you want to talk about the bible without referring to religion, or christian denomination in particular, you still have to pick up one bible for reference, which one is yours?
Mine is the TOB. And I am sure, we will find many huge differences between whatever yours is and mine. So there goes the confusion. Thus, you can not talk seriously about the bible outside a religious dogma.
Take the dead sea scrolls for example. Which bible have "update" its status since this absolutely outstanding discovery? None! To me, it is not about the word of God, (I even avoid using God as name anymore, I prefer using Creation, since it is what I see as true and practicable) it is all about religious dogma. Why the bible is not written anymore if its the word of God, God has stop talking to us?
Anyway, I could go filling up three pages of arguments on this issue. You got to realize it is the tool of a belief system corrupted to direct the readers on sins and victim consciousness. In this regard, Jesus is not a savior, nor a lord, but a brother with a mission to assist our awakening, nothing more nothing less... The only thing which deserve our worship is Creation itself, that is what Jesus was telling us, where is it in the bible today? He also came to educates us about the Universal of consciousness shaping our realities. It is still in the gospel, but very fragmented, someone not aware of this can hardly see it.
Namaste, Steven
Swanny
10-31-2009, 11:19 AM
this is quite a turn off as i don't think avalon is about discussing religious dogma. i agree w zeddo, as m1, you are turning avalon into your own personal journal. how many posts are all about you and your beliefs. and if anyone disagrees you attack them.
this is not what avalon is for. take your religion and bible to a church or fundamentalist forum.
Well said :thumb_yello:
m1* You say your not religious but you always talk about religion :sneaky2:
I wasn't surprised when I read that you join a forum and quickly people turn against you and you are kicked/banned. Maybe you should stand back and have a look at your image. You have been here 20 days and added 166 posts. :shocked:
Please chill out ffs
Back on topic
I my opinion the bible is a pack of lies put in place to control people. I feel sorry for anyone that follows it without question.
For the record I have never read it or nor will I :thumbdown:
I'm sorry m1*. I have been harsh and I should have done it otherwise. Of course you can come up with your opinion on this subject, it is fine. But I still think it is the wrong place to discuss this kind of topic. It will simply attract confrontations. That is why I think it is better to discuss it where you will find like minded people about it.
I don't agree. I don't see why it is necessary to have confrontations in the first place. Most confrontations ferment out of ignorance. I am more than willing to discuss anything at all. I am not here to discuss ONLY the Bible. There's a whole lot to life, existence and reality that I sincerely want to discuss. Nevertheless, part of what I say might very well be sourced from the Bible and I think it would only be prudent for others to allow me to give my views, rather than saying: "Oh NOES - HE SAID BIBLE! OH NOOOOES!". Because I do genuinely believe that I have some useful views to offer -- primarily because of my research of the Bible.
I think that all people should be respected and their views should be considered, no matter what they say or where they get their information from. Of course, conditionally, depending on whether or not the person is being sincere and mature, rather than hateful and arrogant. I could go and get posts from at least 1/2 a dozen people who've brought religion up in my topics (out of the blue) and became pretty hateful and angry, when the thread I made wasn't even ABOUT religion. They simply projected their hate for religion and the Bible onto me, and then the topic took a religious debate tangent (which looked as if I was arguing over, when I was just trying to get everyone to quit it), by explaining that I am not religious and I am not here trying to convert anyone so there's no need to get all upset upon the mention of the Bible or Jesus.
The only real thread I've posted about "Jesus" was merely a dream I wanted to document. Funnily enough, it is SINCE I made that post more and more people have been pulling my responses and threads into a religious debates. It's as if people are sitting there thinking: "Oh here's a post by Jesus Boy, I am going to let HIM know what I THINK if his stupid evil RELIGION". I could go and get at least 1/2 a dozen of THOSE comments right now! It's actually amazing I haven't lost the plot yet, but I've remained as calm as I could. More and more people can't help themselves but to give me a jab in the ribs (about religion) as they pass me on the forums (Since I made the Jesus is Lord post). I am just doing my very best to let each person know that it's not necessary. I'm not here to convert anyone. I simply mention the Bible because I have found a LOT of useful and "relative" information which applies to and explains todays' world, quite well.
The only time I mention the Bible or Jesus is if there's something about that book which demonstrates what I believe or why I believe something. The POINT isn't to recite Bible verses (ie: To preach "religion" as I have been accused). If I am posting, I am genuinely trying to respond to the topic. Most of the time there's no need to even mention the Bible -- so I don't. However, on occasion, I might recall that the Bible says something on a subject, and therefore I'll explain. It would be nice to be able to do that without being saying: "Oh NOES - HE SAID BIBLE! OH NOOOOES!", "This is NOT the place for your HATEFUL religion!". It's actually quite ignorant and really unfair.
At this very time in our evolution, we need to unite. All humanity need more than ever to unite. And their is no book, especially the bible, which as the power to unite all the people on Earth. Nor beliefs.
I do agree that we need to unite. And rest assured, from my understanding of the Bible (and I have a reasonably good understanding), I would have no problem uniting with any culture or people on earth. There are SOME people on earth (who read the Bible) who are not bigoted and hateful. I like to think that I am one of them (or at least, I do try). I think all people can be bigoted and hateful at times - regardless of whether they know the Bible or not. The reason not all "bible readers" are bigoted and hateful is because they read and "understand" the context and intent of the Bible (out of sincerity), as opposed to using the Bible to underline their religion and fill their coffers. There's a really big difference there.
I would have to state (quite emphatically) that if everyone on earth understood the principles of love, set out in the Bible, we would all be united over night. I can't be more emphatic about that. And that's "NOT" because everyone would have to "convert" to a religion. The Bible asks "NO ONE" to convert to ANY religion. As a matter of fact, Jesus often spoke out about religion and pious religious people. He said that there are only two great commandments: 1). Love the Father with all your heart 2). Love your brother with all your heart. Everything else falls under hose two principals (and I think NO one on this forum will disagree with that, unless of course, they do not recognize that there is a father - but from what I can see, most people use the term infinity or source, but it's the same thing). The rest of the Bible is just an extension of those two principals, providing examples in daily life.
Personally, I am very close to Christ. I have always been. But there is a place in my heart to accept other faiths. My faith is not universal and this is not what will unite us all.
It all depends how you look at things. I don't accept "faiths" in that context. Like I said, I can't stand religion and if a "faith" has a dogma attached to it, I want no part of it (even as much as I am ignorantly accused of being religious). Nevertheless, from diligent study, I have concluded that the Bible is indeed the word of God. Some people like to use religious terms and take that religious jump and say that I have a "belief structurer" and that I have {{A}} faith. But I honestly don't believe that's true. I am simply a person who set out from a young age to find the truth behind things, and I learned a LOT from reading the Bible. It's not the only places I looked too. I was into everything when I was younger -- which probably has a great deal to do with the attacks I have suffered (which I have spoken about on this forum). I would argue that I am not a person with "A" faith, but I am a person "OF" faith. There's a pretty big difference. I think if people can understand at least that, then there would be no reason for people to jump on my back and pull the "Bible Thumper" down.
The reason many people like me, are reluctant to the bible is because it is the tool of the churches. The institutional churches. And the one who withhold the largest part of the genuine books in this library (bible means library) is the catholic church. Precisely, the Jesuits, the Franciscans and the Dominicans. Since the roman empire adopted Christianity as state religion under Constantin, the genuine manuscripts were locked in the Vatican and re-translated to be applied by the clergy.
Well, there you go. We absolutely agree. All these churches, they are not serving God. They are religious organizations. They are pious and full of doctrine and dogma and belief structures. I am ESPECIALLY dismayed with cults and religions that provide books and pamphlets and have studies using those books and pamphlets, to teach people what THEY think the Bible "really" says. I couldn't agree with you MORE on this subject, and I wholeheartedly believe that the reason people can't stand the thought of reading the Bible is that they find (as someone else said on this forum which I found to be quite true), "Guilty by association". But I would urge those people to not look at those "religions"; instead go and open that book themselves and look at it from their own viewpoint. That's the way the Bible is SUPPOSED to be read. Yet no one does. They go to the Sunday club, pay some money and listen to someone telling them all about what the Bible says. That is not what the Bible is for.
The Bible doesn't tell people to go and make denominations and religions and to create wars over "religion". The Bible simply says this: Share the message with someone once. If they don't listen, bring two people back and re-explain. If they still don't listen, leave them be. Jesus didn't come to the earth screaming in the streets: "THE END IS NIGH: or "GOD HATES FAGS" (ie: Westboro Baptist Church).
When Jesus gave the sermon on the mount, he didn't clap his hands together at the end and say: "Ok folks, that's everything, now please go and put your money in the box under that tree over there". Jesus didn't have four walls and a steeple. He shared his message under trees and in the nature and in peoples homes - if they were kind enough to let him in. Jesus was not a religious person and didn't ask anyone to join any religion or participate in religious activities.
Since that time, we have over 50 different versions of the bible, some very different from the others. Just take Mary as example, was she virgin or not? Who is the father of Jesus, Joseph? Archangel Gabriel? or the holy spirit? So many confusion was raised from these versions and manipulation. If there was one true genuine bible, I would be the one still reading it today. So which one is the true one? What should we trust in it? It has become the tool of the manipulators over the centuries...
I agree again, wholeheartedly. The King James version of the Bible was translated (DIRECTLY) from the ancient Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic texts. There are more and more Bibles popping up left right and center. They're all rewritten to suit the particular religion or denomination that rewrites them. However, I would simply urge people to stick to the KJV of the Bible. I do not believe that because man has tried to rewrite the Bible to suit himself, that the blame should rest on the Bible itself - or God. If people are sincere and genuine about understanding the Bible, they will do a little bit of research and try to find the version that is not "rewritten". I can save people that trouble by stating that the KJV is not -- and is therefore the most accurate direct translation from the ancient texts and has been in print for hundreds of years.
I don't say there is no truth in it. I say it has been corrupted. Just like all tools the official stream system is throwing at us. Question everything, especially what comes from the main stream ideology, be it history, science, religion, politic, economy or spirituality.
I don't believe it has been corrupted. A lot of recent bibles have. But most importantly, the MESSAGE of the Bible has "through religion". That's where the REAL corruption lies. However, more and more religions (and cults) are rewriting certain verses to suit themselves. Look at the Mormons for example. They wrote a whole Bible 2.0 so to speak (ie: Joseph Smith). The Bible clearly states that no one should add to the words of the Bible. That's why all this so called literature and pamphlets and books by televangelists "Order now $29.95" - NONE of it is necessary. All people need is an accurate English translation of the Bible (ie: KJV), sit down and read it and learn what they can from it. This is what I have done. I never joined any religions. I don't claim to be a part of any denomination. I am simply a person who picked the book up and came to understand that the information inside is intelligent, wise, useful and valuable and I have applied those principals to my life in the best way I can. There's no reason why others couldn't do the same without going all "religious".
I will agree that there is huge problem in the world because of "religion", but that is because the human nature, by default, is not very sincere. Most people try to act all loving and pious, but deep down they're real intent is to glorify and serve themselves. We are egotistical beings who desire praise. However, if we can all just get past that and humble ourselves (as the Bible explains) and act as "children" and not arrogant know all's, we could really go a long way. But I think that a lot of people need to learn the difference between having "A" faith (ie: in a religion) or being a person"OF" faith (ie: simply applying Biblical principals in their lives) and treating each other with love, respect and compassion.
There really isn't any need for people to be getting all upset and angry over someone mentioning words from the Bible. It is really quite immature and pig headed to be frank. People should ONLY get upset with other people when they DO something that is hateful or nasty or wrong and PROVE themselves to be hateful or nasty. It is really unfair that in this world, which is fast becoming a world that anyone who merely MENTIONS the name "Jesus" is hammered into a corner RIGHT off the bat, without ever being given a chance to show their nature.
A lot of people on this forum so far have stated to me: "You're just attacking people because they don't believe as you do". Firstly, I never attack anyone so saying that is unfair. I am merely trying (in those threads) to diffuse the problem by informing the other person that they're jumping to conclusions and really don't know WHAT I believe, and therefore it's unnecessary to make references about how evil religion is - BECAUSE I AGREE! Secondly, my "responses" were due to the fact that I do not want people to have the wrong idea or opinion of me. My explanations were to explain THAT, not to argue "religion". But some people can be really one track minded with their projections. It is really unproductive to constantly project a disdain for religion on someone, just because they are "perceived" to be "religions" upon the mention of God, Jesus or The Bible. It is actually quite ignorant.
All in all, providing no one else jumps on my back and tries to twist my head off because I've mentioned God, Jesus or the Bible in my responses (which really isn't all that often, actually), there's no reason why there should EVER be a "debate" between me and anyone else on this forum. I know one thing for sure. I'm not looking for one. I certainly haven't instigated one or created a thread with the intention of causing a religious debate. Why? Because I'm NOT religious and I don't HAVE any "religion" to preach to anyone. Nevertheless, I have to insist that it is VERY unfair to attempt to cut me off or block off my opinion, if some people can't stand the Bible (because they perceive it to be guilty by association with religion), particularly if they've never actually spent any real time to understand the Book -- or understand what I actually DO think.
Well said :thumb_yello:
m1* You say your not religious but you always talk about religion :sneaky2:
I wasn't surprised when I read that you join a forum and quickly people turn against you and you are kicked/banned. Maybe you should stand back and have a look at your image. You have been here 20 days and added 166 posts. :shocked:
Please chill out ffs
Back on topic
I my opinion the bible is a pack of lies put in place to control people. I feel sorry for anyone that follows it without question.
For the record I have never read it or nor will I :thumbdown:
Swanny, the problem is that from forum to forum, people (in general) can't stand anyone talking about Jesus or the Bible. I would have to argue that I have not spent a lot of time talking about religion here. The religions debates were injected into my threads and responses by other people. I then tried to explain that they have me all wrong, which made me LOOK as if I was always talking about religion. But in reality, I was just trying to STOP the discussion of religion - because I am not religious.
If people would stop trying to convince me how evil religion is (which I agree with), there would be no more talk about it. However, if someone goes out of their way to explain how evil religion is (and project that onto me) I really have no option but to try to explain that they have me all wrong so that I don't have to go through it time and time again. I'm over it - but I am just trying to be patient and let it settle into everyones heads.
I just want those people who have been so angry and hateful towards me to realize that there's no necessity to hammer me into a corner. I do not HAVE a "religion" to preach. And actually, your response shows that you have not read my other explanations yet. If you sincerely believe I am trying to inject "religion" into the forums (and that I need to stand back and have a look at my image), please go and have a look at my other responses on the topic. This is about the 12th time I've responded now, saying basically the same thing. Somehow, I've become the forum "Religious Boy" over the last couple of days (Probably due to the "Jesus is Lord" signature below all my posts), and I am merely trying to remove that sticker from my head - because it's attracting negativity.
I am persisting to explain to each person who calls me religious, that I am not, only because I value this forum and would like to be a part of it and get passed all these religious accusations and disdain by people. However, I believe that will pass, if I just explain to people why they don't need to get all upset about the fact that I have read, and still read, the Bible.
The reason I am spending so my effort to "explain" myself (which I also know and AGREE is starting to get old - believe me), is because I know what will happen if I do not. If I don't get it into people's heads that I am NOT here to preach "religion", I will NOT be able to make a single post without someone turning my threads into a religions debate. That will get REALLY old REALLY fast. However, I do believe that more and more people are seeing these responses and thinking: "Oh, well I misunderstood him. I see that there's no point bashing him with his own Bible because he's really not trying to do that to me, even though I thought that's what he might be doing at first glance".
I would like to find ONE place online where I can be "who i am" and say "my views" how I see them, without getting lynched for mentioning the Bible. I am only persisting here, because like I said: I value the forum and I believe that very soon, I will be able to resume participation in the topics, without people jumping on my back, like I was able to do when I first got here before a few people who hate religion saw my "Jesus is Lord" signature and felt as though they ahd to put me in my place.
Steven
10-31-2009, 12:09 PM
Hello M1* and Beren. I invite you both to take a look at this thread.
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4343
It is about the "Handbooks for the New Paradigm" series received by George Green. This is from where all the "ground crew" concept originates as well as the first impulse to create Avalon forum.
You can read them for free online. It will certainly give you the base to follow many discussion here on Avalon. Not a must, you are free to discard, but it will certainly trigger some old memories...
Namaste, Steven
TheObserver
10-31-2009, 12:12 PM
This is such a great opportunity for practicing turning the other cheek.
And where does the Qur'an, Vedas and other texts fit in?
If not this is a very ethnocentric discussion.
Ive always thought in the evolution vs. creation in schools debate that all schools that want to teach
creationism as science should include the creation stories of all cultures on the planet.
beren
10-31-2009, 12:13 PM
I would add one more thing and that is condemning others when they say what they believe does not lead to anywhere.
I could go on a attack every other person here when they express their viewpoints and experiences and beliefs as sheer BS but I do not do that.
Because I wish to respect every person here and when I find blunt insults and labeling I simply can not tolerate stupidity.
Therefore anyone who on this or other threads is disrespectufl and bluntly arrogant related to other people beliefs will be automaticly report to Avalon moderators.
beren
10-31-2009, 12:15 PM
This is such a great opportunity for practicing turning the other cheek.
And where does the Qur'an, Vedas and other texts fit in?
If not this is a very ethnocentric discussion.
Ive always thought in the evolution vs. creation in schools debate that all schools that want to teach
creationism as science should include the creation stories of all cultures on the planet.
Got to go now Steven but I will look that later when on PC...Thank you for link..
P.S.
You have very good line of reasoning and thinking, I like that.
TheObserver
10-31-2009, 12:21 PM
Thanks Beren. (assuming the p.s. was to me)
Stargazer1965
10-31-2009, 01:08 PM
Dolphin, you are being very unfair.
M1...seems to be cutting and pasting out of other forums....
And If you want to divide people...
Talk
Religion
or Politics
Funny how this turned into a religious forum over the last week.....
We must have been close to some kind of TRUTH..
I would add one more thing and that is condemning others when they say what they believe does not lead to anywhere.
I could go on a attack every other person here when they express their viewpoints and experiences and beliefs as sheer BS but I do not do that.
Because I wish to respect every person here and when I find blunt insults and labeling I simply can not tolerate stupidity.
I am the same. If I pulled people up and made a big scene over what other people believe on this forum, because I think it's BS or leading people astray, or even causing spiritual damage, I'd have to stop my life and make it a full time job. However, I never pull peoples posts aside and tackle them to the ground in an effort to have them convinced that what they believe is useless. There's just no point.
Also, I find it fascinating that every single response I have made has been a wholehearted effort to state that I do NOT want to debate religion and that I am NOT religious and that i have no will do have people pull me into religious debates, yet practically every response either starts with (or contains): "Well if you want to talk about religion".. some people just aren't getting it.
I say: " I can't stand religion it's evil" and then people respond with: "yeah but religion is evil, don't you see? .. *shakes head*. It's almost funny. Some people are just too one track minded and are unable to communicate effectively because of projections and prepackaged views. I can see that many people aren't "thinking" about their response. They're just depositing pre packaged cleches, but it's not even matching the conversation.
I think i could try to reiterate that I have no will to discuss religion for another 2 months, but at the end of that, there would be people saying: "Why do you spend so much time discussing religion". I think I've posted my explanation quite enough on this forum and it's starting to get old. It's at a point where those who are able to comprehend and accdpt what I've stated will, and those who wont -- never will.
Swanny
10-31-2009, 02:28 PM
m1 how can you say you're not religious but also say that if you could only have one book to read it would be the bible which you plan to read for the rest of your life and that you follow Jesus and God. It confuses me that you think you are not religious when you clearly are :blink:
As has been said this forum is a spiritual place, please take your bible and go else where to preach :mf_popeanim:
m1 how can you say you're not religious but also say that if you could only have one book to read it would be the bible which you plan to read for the rest of your life and that you follow Jesus and God. It confuses me that you think you are not religious when you clearly are :blink:
As has been said this forum is a spiritual place, please take your bible and go else where to preach :mf_popeanim:
Swanny, my friend, there is a difference between religion and reading the Bible. There is a difference between believing that their is an Ultimate omnipresent creator, and religion. The Bible is not a religion it is a book.
You are being rather unfair, by accusing me of preaching and insisting that I go somewhere else. I have not come to this forum to preach a religion. The only comments I am making on religion is as a "response". I am not instigating it. Yet, if I do mention the Bible, I wholeheartedly believe that i am quite within my rights -- and I should be able to do so, without people expressing their discontentment over religion.
Yes I have claimed that I believe that Jesus is Lord and that God is the Creator - but that is my right to do, and because I do that -- you really do not have any authority or right to ask me to go somewhere else.
I have to insist, that you (yourself) are being rather rude and bigoted. You are being unfair and the conduct that you are presenting to me is not out of love. It is out of ego, pride and ignorance.
I do not say that because I am angry or upset. I am saying this because that exactly what I am seeing in you. There really is no need for you to insist that I go elsewhere and "preach", because 1). I am not preaching and 2). I am perfectly free to express my opinions 3). You're not the only person who hates the Bible that has insisted that I either leave, or close my thread, or go to another forum.
The whole sentiment here, where people utterly refuse to hear anything that contains "Bible" or "Jesus" or "God" is really very juvenile, unproductive and negative. The whole "religious" debate on this forum is caused solely by those who hate it and want to hammer those down who mention it.
Swanny
10-31-2009, 02:48 PM
Yes I have claimed that I believe that Jesus is Lord and that God is the Creator -
Sorry but in my book that statement alone makes you religious
Now, from here on please keep the word YOU out of your posts and everything will be fine :) stick to the op's question and carry on please. Any more references to the "You" will be considered for editing. intolerance got humanity here, now its time to move on don't you think?
<snip>
GaiaLove
10-31-2009, 03:14 PM
Religion is dying a slow death and so is this thread.
The bible is a fine work of fiction based on a few true stories and a great read if u have the time. That's about all I have to say about the bible.
Now, from here on please keep the word YOU out of your posts and everything will be fine :) stick to the op's question and carry on please. Any more references to the "You" will be considered for editing. intolerance got humanity here, now its time to move on don't you think?
Religion is dying a slow death and so is this thread.
The bible is a fine work of fiction based on a few true stories and a great read if u have the time. That's about all I have to say about the bible.
Now, from here on please keep the word YOU out of your posts and everything will be fine :) stick to the op's question and carry on please. Any more references to the "You" will be considered for editing. intolerance got humanity here, now its time to move on don't you think?
Well, I guess that settles all that than :)
fossileyesed
10-31-2009, 04:47 PM
good day all
i've read most of the bible and have not been offended by what i've read.
i'm not religious but have most of my life been spiritual.for my own understanding of what i've read,i leave the church and religion out of my reading.i use the book of life and the book of nature as reference material.
i find that the bible is easier to digest this way.
also the bible is not complete,so there are alot of holes in the story.its written in parables,so to leave parts out only leaves one more confused.
when you start reading these removed peices,you clearly can understand why the church and religion have made an effort to keep some parts hidden.
heres a few truths i got
love your neighbor like your self.unconditionally.now that dont sound evil.
in todays world that unconditional part is hard,but to me a worthwhile endevour.
cant speak for you.religion speaks for most and they censor what they say and what you get to hear.so i dont ask them,ask your self.noone knows you better.
when i saw dr emotos work on concsious water and the power of your thoughts i was blown away with the truth of it.the bible talks of the power of your thoughts also. makes that unconditional part easier.
the church and religion dont speak for god,they speak for their own motives.
many governments are founded under the guise of god,but they dont speak for god.they speak for their own motives.
there is god and there is word.dead words written by dead men.argued about forever it seems.and there is god.
you owe it to your self to check out some forbidden scriptures before turning your back on the bible.there is way more to the big picture than religion wants you to know.
the book of life and the book of nature are exactly the same now as then,no words.
this should give an idea how incomplete the bible is
YouTube - The Mysteries banned from the Bible Pt.1 .flv
peace....kent:wub2:
Swanny
10-31-2009, 06:26 PM
Now, from here on please keep the word YOU out of your posts and everything will be fine :) stick to the op's question and carry on please. Any more references to the "You" will be considered for editing. intolerance got humanity here, now its time to move on don't you think?
<snip>
RedeZra
10-31-2009, 06:54 PM
What matters
is not our diverse opinion about the Bible
whether it is facts or fiction
clearly we cannot agree
so let's leave it at that
Bash not thy neighbour's head with the Book
We are all here for a reason and a quest
and we all carry a lifeline
GaiaLove
10-31-2009, 07:02 PM
Bash not thy neighbour's head with the Book.
We are all here for a reason and a quest and we all carry a lifeline
:thumb_yello: well said.
14 Chakras
10-31-2009, 07:07 PM
As has been said this forum is a spiritual place
This line I love. I agree. This forum is a spiritual place. That's powerful.
fossileyesed
10-31-2009, 08:09 PM
try this. think of it as a frequency manual.realize the church and religion already know this.empower your frequency.take on a pay it forward attitude.
love your neighbor as best you can.this sounds like a good frequency.
harmony is the ultimate goal.who would wanna argue with that
to not read the frequency manual,and to be a powerful frequency(unaware of your potential)would be like giving the drivers seat to a blind man.
dr emotos work showed that the words and expressions that produced the most beautiful crystals were
love
gratitude
humbleness (i think this means get along,dont argue)
thankfulness
i fortunatly never started to read the bible till last year.i say fortunatly because i have read alot of the missing stuff first,like gospels of peace which is written at the same time period as the bible,maybe earlier.the books of enoch.gospel of mary(check that out just for fun)
peace...kent:sweatdrop:
TempestGarden
10-31-2009, 10:45 PM
I have to admit that I have a general aversion to the Christian faith, the Bible and everything that it has become. These days, I generally dismiss anyone that spouts these sorts of teachings and their "interpretations" of them and I stress that later word very strongly. I agree with the fundamentals of the teachings of the Bible, but not in the way it has been distorted by King James and altered to enslave people.
So, needless to say I have stayed out of these threads simply because I didn't wish to get into a "debate" so to speak about the subject matter. However, and most importantly, I still fully believe in their right to have and hold these belief systems without adding my 2 cents claiming that they are crazy, mislead, etc. They have every right to believe what they do just as I do to have my belief system.
I will say this however... I think it is extremely laughable and quite ironic that *m1 is being attacked for his beliefs by people on this forum that will turn around and preach things like universal love for all of humanity and/or unconditional love. I don't think there are too many people that come to these forums that either don't believe we all need to raise our vibrational levels or at the very least claim to be trying to do just that themselves. I don't think it's a stretch at all to make that assumption based on all the posts and threads in the many different areas of the forums.
The reaction of a number of people on here serve to prove what I have been saying for a long time now.... Humanity has a LONG WAY TO GO when it comes to raising their vibrational levels and the very notion of unconditional love. For those people that are having a difficult time with this "idea" it goes something like this... Embrace and love everything, including the things that you fear and hate, don't understand and/or disagree with.
Afterall, isn't that the basis for the concept that we are all "God's" children? Just think about it a little while folks. You'll see what I mean.
No wonder the ETs are so hesitant to make contact with us. The human race is so full of contradictions, half-promises, the inability to let go of the Ego and a deep seeded need to be "right" about everything!
Ross H
10-31-2009, 11:01 PM
I also refrained from posting a respones, other than to remind ppls to play nice.
This world has had its day, in my opinion, of dis-connection, seperation and dis-function.
Im my world, there is only love, peace and goodwill. This is all I have control over...within myself...:original:
Love and peace reign supreme:thumb_yello:
Peace always.:original:
Antonia
10-31-2009, 11:16 PM
Beren and M1.... Once again I'm delighted that you both feel sooooo strongly about the Bible... I'm genuinely happy that you get so much insperation from it and believe it to be the only real word of God and all the rest... But... How many threads is this now that you want to discus the glories of the bible?? And tell us all how much it means to you and ask us why we all don't agree with your views etc...???
Can we get something else from you both maybe now???
You both seem lovely light filled people full of energy and zeal and passion sooo... Please lets have some more from where this all came from only a different topic... I have said all I need to say about my own views about the bible on all your previous posts about the bible..and as you know we will have to agree to disagree... my views would corrospond to those of Kensumei2, Steven, Zedo, to menchon a few... and by now it's literaly zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz at the thought of it... but please don't take offence .... I really do want to get in to some juicy discussions with you both about other things... LoL Antonia:original::original::naughty::original::ori ginal:
beren
10-31-2009, 11:40 PM
Thanks Beren. (assuming the p.s. was to me)
No it was not.
:original:
One thing is very true, among all billions of people on earth , only one quarter has Internet. Among all who use Internet just 5 % are using it to learn ,explore and do something creative and good.
Now knowing that fact ,all of us here on this forum are people who think, who are trying to breathe through the stench of this world.
Not everyone is right here but at least some people are trying very hard to know, to learn from their mistakes, to grow.
This is all normal process.
I started this thread to encourage people to rethink Bible. Not to discredit it lightly because of prejudice, ill information or bad experience with religions.
I really don`t care if you believe that Bible is or is not right,is it a word of God or not. After all you have free will to choose your reality.
But nobody has a right to insult others who are not with the same attitude as they are.
I have seen that here and I do not like that.
I have made my point related to Bible and who ever was interested to know it , he or she had already read it from my posts.
My conclusion is that so many of us here are dazzled and confused without knowledge of that fact.
Let your confusion be smitten away in finding the truth before long.
But friends, do not ever be fools to pretend that you are someone other than the one who you really are. Do not try to sound more smarter or wiser just because of seeing few you tube videos or heard few interviews of these topics. See all, question everything , wait , and the digest and decide was that certain info a lie or truth. DO NOT jump to conclusion as for example Swanny when she said that she think that Bible is a pack of lies and for the record she did not read it and wish still not to read it. That is jumping to conclusion and prejudice.
Swanny I like you but that was your words on one previous post on this thread.
Also don`t you dare who ever you are ,dear reader of this forum or subscriber in it to think that YOU own it. No one can tell people here what to do and where to do it as long as they are respectful towards others, we have opinions to exchange not quarrels.
Always remember that- no matter if you are the first who subscribed here or you came yesterday.
Love and blessings,
Beren
beren
10-31-2009, 11:44 PM
Beren and M1.... Once again I'm delighted that you both feel sooooo strongly about the Bible... I'm genuinely happy that you get so much insperation from it and believe it to be the only real word of God and all the rest... But... How many threads is this now that you want to discus the glories of the bible?? And tell us all how much it means to you and ask us why we all don't agree with your views etc...???
Can we get something else from you both maybe now???
You both seem lovely light filled people full of energy and zeal and passion sooo... Please lets have some more from where this all came from only a different topic... I have said all I need to say about my own views about the bible on all your previous posts about the bible..and as you know we will have to agree to disagree... my views would corrospond to those of Kensumei2, Steven, Zedo, to menchon a few... and by now it's literaly zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz at the thought of it... but please don't take offence .... I really do want to get in to some juicy discussions with you both about other things... LoL Antonia:original::original::naughty::original::ori ginal:
Antooooniiiaaaaa,,,,:original:
Do you agree that everything would be better over a cup of black Earl Gray tea, with tiny bit of milk and a bit of honey?
If you were closer to my place if would call you on a 5 o `clock tea!
What say you?
:cup::original:
dolphin
10-31-2009, 11:51 PM
the bible was created for the dumming of the masses....always someone outside of oneself to do the saving or the persecuting.
bec. of the literal interpretations of all "biblical" texts, we have massive genocide! isreal against palestine, catholic roman empire killing and slaughtering millions of indidgenous people.
beren
10-31-2009, 11:56 PM
[mod edit - Personal comment removed]
the bible was created for the dumming of the masses....always someone outside of oneself to do the saving or the persecuting.
bec. of the literal interpretations of all "biblical" texts, we have massive genocide! isreal against palestine, catholic roman empire killing and slaughtering millions of indidgenous people.
Dolphin, would you behave better , please?
Did you not read at least if you didn`t read my responses and calling for peace, the moderators calling for peace here???
dolphin
11-01-2009, 12:04 AM
....you should be able voice your opinion. if he's able to dish it out, he should be adult enough to realize people will react. this is not a grade school classroom. we are all adults.
he's pushing people's buttons as well.
beren
11-01-2009, 12:08 AM
....you should be able voice your opinion. if he's able to dish it out, he should be adult enough to realize people will react. this is not a grade school classroom. we are all adults.
he's pushing people's buttons as well.
Yes, so we all are pushing them too! But I didn`t found attacking people on his replies , he was indeed a bit tough and sarcastic but not insulting.
I know you are better than that, come on! :original:
Don`t be maimed by things you disagree with... otherwise you will end up fighting and bickering about almost all imaginable!
Stay good,
Beren
Steven
11-01-2009, 12:13 AM
There was the warning...
...I still think it is the wrong place to discuss this kind of topic. It will simply attract confrontations. That is why I think it is better to discuss it where you will find like minded people about it...
There was the reply.
I don't agree...
I saw that before. Avalon is not a christian forum, not Islamic, nor Jewish, nor Buddhist. You can cast your faith and views tainted by your beliefs through out your post, its fine. But focusing the topic on a religious book is
calling for confrontation. If you do not see why, read the whole thread again.
Namaste, Steven
TheObserver
11-01-2009, 12:16 AM
The cool thing about opinions is they are all correct. Another thing to remember is: play nice, it's funner that way. :original:
RedeZra
11-01-2009, 12:40 AM
Avalon is not a christian forum, not Islamic, nor Jewish, nor Buddhist..
No its New Age lol
Nah Avalon provides Avenues of important practical and interesting topics
Whatever we believe here is something for everyone to munch on
Avalon is like a backstage pass behind the world scene
beren
11-01-2009, 01:00 AM
No its New Age lol
Nah Avalon provides Avenues of important practical and interesting topics
Whatever we believe here is something for everyone to munch on
Avalon is like a backstage pass behind the world scene
:thumb_yello:
orthodoxymoron
11-01-2009, 01:10 AM
With all of the sudden theological interest...which I welcome with open arms and an open mind...could someone please consider this collection of generally theologically oriented threads? http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17016&highlight=orthodoxymoron+threads I have been unsuccessfully trying to get a fight (discussion rather) going regarding some rather unorthodox ideas and speculations. I think theology is at the center of everything here on Avalon. Also...we have to be continually confronted with people and ideas who we don't agree with. If we exclude Christian or Biblical discussion...this is very narrow and closed-minded. I believe in probably 10% of what I used to...but that 10% may be the key to unlocking the forbidden secrets of the universe.
GaiaLove
11-01-2009, 03:10 AM
I am going to restate this, stay on topic!
Beren's original post is a good topic for intelligent debate and exchanging of ideas.
This thread can be one of great value and importance with mature well thought out posts.
Stay in the light, embrace the differences and show the world what we are made of!
Now, here is the topic:
What do you think of Bible?
Why do people freak out when talking about Bible?
Why do 90% of the people who did not even read the Bible dare to bash it?
Is the book judicable by the acts of people who by the way did not even read it?
Why is such a great effort of many to discredit the Bible and yet they are not successful?
Why people connect Bible with religion?
Why people avoid often to even talk of Bible?
Why Bible is the most translated ,read and printed book ever and yet the most persecuted,burned and forbidden ?
Why so much effort to root out the Bible and yet none successful?
Why so many people were tortured and brutally murdered by Catholic and other churches because of possessing the Bible or reading it?
Why despite obvious attempts of certain mistranslations that still the message is crystal clear?
Well I know the answer, some of you saw it from my posts and threads. Some disagree and some agree but so few opinions from the heart!
Many answers I read were a second hand one...
Now really WHY on all above?
Any further references to m1* will be removed. Please stay positive
Tango
11-01-2009, 04:38 AM
I think the bible is the Most Widely published book of all time... For every room
I've ever stayed in [thousands] all over the world, There is Always a Bible. Always.
Strange room (BoQ) Strange Place... No Internet, No Problem there's always a
Bible to read...
Every Hospital Room bedside table has a Bible... Motel, Hotel, military base
Think, how many Bibles are out there...
Trooly,
Tango
Ross H
11-01-2009, 05:11 AM
No probs if you lose one then:lmao:
Carol
11-01-2009, 06:29 AM
Please keep in mind that there are those who use the Bible to manipulate and control others and this is where the danger lies.
Swanny
11-01-2009, 11:10 AM
And don't forget that the bible has been changed many times in the past so that it can be used to control. It once talked about reincarnation, but the church found it hard to install the fear of god into someone for their sins when they could just reincarnate.
I imagine some bored monk locked away in a chamber day after day translating the bible may have spiced up more than a few of the stories just to make his day a little more entertaining :thumb_yello:
It's the best selling book of fictional stories nothing more, some good, some bad, some nonsense and in my opinion thou would have to be a bit daft in the head to believe it as gospel, which clearly some people are :tongue2:
viking
11-01-2009, 11:13 AM
And don't forget that the bible has been changed many times in the past so that it can be used to control. It once talked about reincarnation, but the church found it hard to install the fear of god into someone for their sins when they could just reincarnate
:thumb_yello:
viking
Steven
11-01-2009, 11:43 AM
Please keep in mind that there are those who use the Bible to manipulate and control others and this is where the danger lies.
You have summarized in few clear words what I was awkwardly trying to say with a whole bunch of sentences. :lol3:
Thank you, Namaste, Steven
orthodoxymoron
11-01-2009, 05:09 PM
This may be a bit off topic...but I presently think we simply get recycled over and over right here on Earth. No heaven. No hell. No ascension. We just make our bed...and sleep in it. There seems to be some et complications...which I hope will be ending soon. Then we will be able to rule ourselves without external manipulation. We will continue to have huge problems on an ongoing basis...but somehow we will survive and thrive. World without end. Amen Ra.
Initiate
11-01-2009, 06:24 PM
As far back as I can remember the most import messages I took from the Bible were:
1) Christianity: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law of the prophets.
Matthew, 7:12
Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not to your fellowmen. That is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
Talmud, Shabbat, 31a
Brahmanism: This is the sum of duty; do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you.
Mahabharata, 5, 1517
Buddhism: Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
Udana-Varga, 5, 18
Confucianism: Surely it is the maxim of loving-kindness: Do not unto others that you would not have them do unto you.
Analects, 15, 23
Taoism: Regard you neighbor's gain as your own gain and your neighbor's loss as your own loss.
T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien
Zoroastrianism: That nature alone is good which refrains from doing unto another whatsoever is not good for itself.
Dadistan-i-dinik, 94, 5
Islam: No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
Sunnah
(2) Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: (Mathew 7:7)
These messages transcends distortion and religion. No New Age Philosophy transcends these two messages. The bible has been distorted but the light of truth shines through dispite the manipulates. It is a wonderful book that has served it's purpose. Now we are in this time, greater truths have been given to us. If we seek them we can find the truth.
Antonia
11-01-2009, 08:50 PM
Beren.... A cuppa sounds lovely...stick the kettle on... I'm there!!! LoL
beren
11-01-2009, 11:49 PM
Please keep in mind that there are those who use the Bible to manipulate and control others and this is where the danger lies.
Very true, I would remind you of the story of Jesus and his testing by Satan.
Satan was quoting scripture to him in order to mislead and deceive him...
But Jesus knew this and fire back with also quoting the scriptures!
This paint us a great picture how Bible can be used for evil,but it self is not evil. Jesus quoted it and won the argument over Satan,because he :
1.knew whole truth
2.knew whole scriptures(who would better know it that a word of God??? :-) )
3.he saw what lies behind Satan`s quoting,he felt his spirit and deeds and hence fore was not deceived.
Also bear in mind a quote from Bible that Satan is pretending as angle of light and wisdom as well as his servants...
So conclusion is that people today do not like or trust Bible because it was used as a tool or a weapon by evil men through out history to hurt and actually enslave others.
What a wicked way of doing harm,by the very thing that was written to help people...
beren
11-02-2009, 12:43 AM
I am going to restate this, stay on topic!
Beren's original post is a good topic for intelligent debate and exchanging of ideas.
This thread can be one of great value and importance with mature well thought out posts.
Stay in the light, embrace the differences and show the world what we are made of!
Now, here is the topic:
Thanks for that reminder,people got carried away here. It shows how actually this theme is very close to all of us.
After all I asked for honest replies and I got`em :original:
That`s even better than staying idle...Staying idle means that someday a steam roller will run over you and YOU wouldn`t move because you`re being indifferent whole your life...
Laodician church from Revelation was neither warm neither cold,therefore it was spitted out...
Malletzky
11-02-2009, 11:18 AM
...I will say this however... I think it is extremely laughable and quite ironic that ...is being attacked for his beliefs by people on this forum that will turn around and preach things like universal love for all of humanity and/or unconditional love. I don't think there are too many people that come to these forums that either don't believe we all need to raise our vibrational levels or at the very least claim to be trying to do just that themselves. I don't think it's a stretch at all to make that assumption based on all the posts and threads in the many different areas of the forums....
First of all, isn't the Bible itself (especially the NT and Jesus himself) preaching the universal, unconditional love? I would say YES, the whole issue IS definately about preaching love...
So why should we (the many other people here on these forums), who "preach" about love for the whole humanity and/or unconditional love, be treated like we’re doing something “bad” or different?
Why assuming something? How could anyone know what’s in my heart? How could anyone know how much love I bear in my heart?
Even being raised as a Christian, I wouldn’t consider my self as a “Bible specialist”. I’ve read the NT “only” twice and the only thing that resonated there with me was the unconditional love which Jesus preached and shared unconditionally. So why should I bother and be different as he was?
Nevertheless, I must admit that I (and this is only my subjective point of view) realised that there’s much, much more then The Bible and its teachings.
It really is about raising our vibrational levels, be open for new “teachings”, it is about to find out who we really, who we truly are...but never forget, down this long way, that WE ARE HUMANS on the first place, right here and right now !!!
I “know”, deep in my heart, that our (the humanity) final goal should be achieving that very high state of “being conscious” as Jesus was and/or as he preaches, “do the things that I’ve done and much more than that...”!!! And THIS is where I’m going, this is my path! I do not accept anything less then this..!!!
And the only way to achieve this is to be a human - but act like God...from a higher state of unconditional love for all that has ever been created...and will be created...
with :wub2:
malletzky
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