Camelot interview with Dane Tops

[Mizar]

Hello all;
I am not, and have never been a member of the Church of Scientology, All I have learned in the past 40 years from persons like Ingo Swann, Pat Price, et. al has always been independent of the C of S. I am sorry to learn that some of the greats in Psychic research have been involved with the C of S.
Mizar

[Connecting with Sauce]

I'm not yet fully through the interview... but I think most saddening thing is that the C of S was infultrated and changed and then distroyed from within. So we would all avoid the C of S... I know I avoid them at all Mind |Body Shows as I feel negatively towards them now and maybe rightly so. This doesn't mean the original teachings are not worthwhile... but how do you find these original teachers? Another part of this game we call life...

[Malaros]

I have not read the interview but I would like to make a point on the messages of religions.

I believe that when a prophet has a religious message, it is not long before this mesage is hijacked by people who want power. These people become 'priests' (in quotation marks because religious leaders have many different titles) of this new message (however, I beleive that many priests and religious people are good people who want to live by the message and spread it.)

These false 'priests' turn the original message to their own ends and eventually, the religion just becomes another vehicle to feed their lusts.

I do not believe in any one religion, but I feel that the orignial messages contain a lot of good information and work. I listened to the bible on MP3 so I could hear the origninal message (as orignial as I could get without learning Hebrew) because I do not want to rely on priests for my development as I am worried that I am handing too much power over to them.

Rant over.

[jonathan Burke]

I have been in the group since the early fifties, that is last life time and this life time. The technology works unbelievably well if applied standardly. I am a trained auditor and would be happy to answer any questions.

I was Declared 3 years ago for telling my friends and family about what is going on. There is a lot more than was covered in the interview as to what has happened and why. It's a huge topic to cover because it works and that's the reason for the attacks on it.

There are a tremendous amount of pieces to the puzzle in Scientology that Camelot is assembling into a full picture. It doesn't have them all but with the use of some of the techniques, many, many more can be found. This was even suggested by Hubbard in the sixties using the e-meter to do "archaeological" research into precise Earth and Pre-Earth history.

If you need any info, just let me know, happy to help. :)

J.B.

[bosr]

I'm looking forward to a self-study course.

What is 'Declared'?

[eleni]

Yes, more info- please share and thank you for the willingness to do so.

[watermunky]

I am with eleni I would like more info as well.

[watermunky]

Oh and that's Dane Tops by the way.

[Gnosis5]

I'm not yet fully through the interview... but I think most saddening thing is that the C of S was infultrated and changed and then distroyed from within. So we would all avoid the C of S... I know I avoid them at all Mind |Body Shows as I feel negatively towards them now and maybe rightly so. This doesn't mean the original teachings are not worthwhile... but how do you find these original teachers? Another part of this game we call life...

You probably already received some replies to your question. Anonymous has gone to great lengths to publish all Hubbard documents, lectures, videos, etc.

Also the Galac_Patra Yahoo Group just installed a website on an international server and I have found it adequate.

Last lifetime I managed to cut short my between lives implanting and landed myself right in the lecture hall of an ongoing Scientology lecture series. Some of the best data I have ever come across. Most of it is compiled and thus some very ancient -- a real time saver, but as always test everything out for oneself.

I spent some interesting times with Hubbard last lifetime and there is nothing better in this world than going CLEAR. IMHO.

[Gnosis5]

Hello all;
I am not, and have never been a member of the Church of Scientology, All I have learned in the past 40 years from persons like Ingo Swann, Pat Price, et. al has always been independent of the C of S. I am sorry to learn that some of the greats in Psychic research have been involved with the C of S.
Mizar

Probably they were not that involved. Scientology can be used to make what I call polarized demi-gods, which is a misuse of the technology. Easier to control a polarized god than a CLEARED GOD who is merging his polarities.

Every gadget the ETs and Black OPs have is a cheap imitation of what someone who is CLEAR and trained to use his abilities can do with an effortless intention.

For me, it is nose to the grindstone, keep doing my clearing work and see what abilities crop up as a result. I Clear for the sake of Clearing myself and others and not so much for the sake of being a great psychic. I would rather be a great egolessness, lol.

Scientology has two parts: clearing processing, and making modern day magicians (hopefully white magicians). Best advised to take the clearing path before apprenticing to be a new magician-psychic.

Black Ops obviously do not mind and even like to cultivate psychic beings, but they hate and fear CLEARED beings the way vampires snarl at garlic. That is first hand experience, and I have the scars to prove it, LOL.

They should thank me for choosing to clean up the playing field with win-win strategies and processes.

[Phtha]

I put the interview up in audio format here for those that would prefer to listen to a robot rather the read a monitor. :lmfao:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2B01A272033C0B56

Hi Jonathan, yes... please share whatever knowledge you can about how to achieve total recall. Any books you can recommend or online documents even?



If you need any info, just let me know, happy to help. :)
J.B.

[Gnosis5]

I was also with Hubbard for a bit last lifetime and if anyone wishes to put more pieces of the puzzle together, PM me.

It is generally agreed in the Freezone that all the good clearing practitioners left CofS and are now in private practice. Same goes for my auditor who has been auditing for 20 years outside the CofS. As with every service profession please employ CAVEAT EMPTOR. Please do not treat it as a religion but as another Clearing modality.

I am very very happy when CofS does manage in spite of upper management to make Clears -- Buffalo Branch just made two clears and I am very happy for them, but they do not have the freedom of expression and response-ability that I enjoy as someone who is CLEARING outside the CofS. Plus I paid tons less than they did. :tongue2:

Where I am going next lifetime I will not be able to take the car or house or closet full of clothes, but my state of CLEAR will come with me into my next wonderful lifetime!! :original:

Thank the Buddha who one day decided to sit down under the Bodhi tree and not get up until he found it.

cheers!
Gnosis




I have been in the group since the early fifties, that is last life time and this life time. The technology works unbelievably well if applied standardly. I am a trained auditor and would be happy to answer any questions.

I was Declared 3 years ago for telling my friends and family about what is going on. There is a lot more than was covered in the interview as to what has happened and why. It's a huge topic to cover because it works and that's the reason for the attacks on it.

There are a tremendous amount of pieces to the puzzle in Scientology that Camelot is assembling into a full picture. It doesn't have them all but with the use of some of the techniques, many, many more can be found. This was even suggested by Hubbard in the sixties using the e-meter to do "archaeological" research into precise Earth and Pre-Earth history.

If you need any info, just let me know, happy to help. :)

J.B.

[MONITOR]

Here's an important source...i think all scientologists should watch.

Warning Contains course language!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUjMz9-W2I

[Phtha]

Can anyone here give any information or documents concerning R3X? I received a message saying that it is one of the most straight forward clearing methods developed by Ron before scientology was over thrown.

A www search brought up nothing on it yet...

[Gnosis5]

Can anyone here give any information or documents concerning R3X? I received a message saying that it is one of the most straight forward clearing methods developed by Ron before scientology was over thrown.

A www search brought up nothing on it yet...

It was I who dropped the word about R3X -- a very straightforward clearing modality. I did a quick Google search and was able to locate the Yahoo Groups that Robert set up. Best to PM me and get his contact info is you wish to get questions answered from the developer of R3X, or sign on with one of his Yahoo Groups and ask questions.

Hope that helps.

Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

Here's an important source...i think all scientologists should watch.

Warning Contains course language!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNUjMz9-W2I

Yes, I saw that -- he was really upset and I was surprised that the CofS would screw up with such a public person. I hope he continues his Clearing work outside the CofS. All the good auditors left the CofS and are in private practice. One such auditor posts on this forum.

[Gnosis5]

Bottom line, LRH is doing fine now in his new lifetime here on planet earth, better than ever and, YES, our future is in the stars.

LRH, in his current state of awakeness would more than agree that there is more than one way to ascend to the stars: The topography of consciousness could very well be slightly varied for each one of us. I have not yet done research into this.

More and more I am finding blogs and websites that talk about clearing the spiritual being of fixed dualities and compulsive behaviors, etc. Too numerous to list. CAVEAT EMPTOR and go with your inner knowingness.

best,
Gnosis

[Connecting with Sauce]

Anonymous has gone to great lengths to publish all Hubbard documents, lectures, videos, etc..

Any links available? I read the interview fully and am listening now tot the linked interview by Jason...

Is this clearing something you can do on your own or do you need 2 or more people?

Are there any clearing specialists in the UK?

[jonathan Burke]

Wow! What a difference a day makes in posts.

I went Clear in 59' on Dianetics which was just getting to a speedier result at the time. The state wasn't validated until 3 years ago, trust me you don't want to wait that long to have the state acknowledged.

That being said, Clear is not the end all of end alls and yes, Virginia, believe it or not, there are those who go Clear ( the state of relieving ones self of their current this life reactive mind ) and don't touch any past lives.(( Your reactive mind is a long story but suffice to say it sums up all the negative events you have experienced while under duress of one kind or another as well as losses this life.)) That is odd but does happen on occasion. Past lives are not what you are looking for but they do come up on there own quite frequently as you unburden yourself more and more.

To go Clear , STANDARDLY, one will need an auditor to audit you. Most of the "protestant" auditors outside of the church do charge for their services. An alternative, time consuming but still very, very, effective, is to do it the original way and apply Dianetics to another person and and them to you. Just round robin 3 hours a day each and you will get the job job done in most cases.

The biggest problem in the Organization today is the obfuscation of the correct workable technology. People don't get anywhere without a ridiculous amount of money and then where they get in advancement is questionable due to the alterations. That being said they do get some gains, which is a testament and tribute to how powerful and effective the technology really is.

All of the original works are alive and well outside the church, there are many auditors who practice standard tech to this day. The main idea is it is a workable technology and does work if applied exactly. There are many individuals who have taken it upon themselves to embellish or change the data either for their own benefit or some other reason. Beware of these situations as it will only cause you harm in my experience. In other words if it isn't broke don't "fix" it.

That being said, Clear is not the end but just the beginning. Beyond clear is where you really find who you are and how much you have been tampered with as a being. The end result is you will find out for yourself just WHO YOU ARE, how you got here, and that you CAN be at cause not just for yourself but for everything for the good of all. The abilities that Mr. Tops mentions can be obtained, but, every being has his own talents and the results are for relief of negative gain as a being not to do parlor tricks. If that makes sense?:wink2:

The things you have gotten yourself into and the beings that allowed you too were not good guys and they have installed things "into" you that you have no idea are there. Hubbard was really intuitive in his methods to find these implants and how they were laid in.

A good reference to start reading is Fundamentals of thought. Pm me if you want to know where to find it. The technology of Scientology is unbelievably unique and applicable to nearly everything. I use it every minute of everyday. Nothing else exists in this universe like it and it is a way out, a very workable way that those with less than honest intentions want to bar for the rest of us.

I am happy to direct , answer, and help if you should need it. It's a blast.

Jonathan

[jonathan Burke]

I'm looking forward to a self-study course.

What is 'Declared'?

It is a term for being ex-communicated. You cannot do services, see friends, family, or business partners who are still in. It is an effective way to isolate you if you know something they don't want others to know. It originall was used to delete anti-social persons out of the group effectively, which number per the tech. 2.5%.

The church has declared 98.5% of the people who were responsible for the churches largest organization and successes at that time in England in the late 60's. Far more than the 2.5%, which is obvious as to why.....

They knew (or know) that the tech. has been changed and needed to be silenced or they would tell everyone. Thus they had to be made into suppressive "lepers" and cast out, like myself.

The church has slowly deleted places, omitted dates, names of people, events etc. from every document they can find to hide their actual changes. They will until a group comes along who has the confront to call them on it and expunge the alterers from the group and restore changes to their original form, intent and workability.

Hope this answers your question.

jonathan

[Connecting with Sauce]

A good reference to start reading is Fundamentals of thought.

Amazon had 3 older hardback copies from 1956... One is on it's way to Essex now :)

[bosr]

Thank you for explaining the meaning of 'Declared'. It must have been tough.

Here is a link to a zip file containing 20 Scientology books including "Fundamentals of Thought" as referenced above.

http://www.scientology-london.com/downloads/files/books.zip

[Gnosis5]

Any links available? I read the interview fully and am listening now tot the linked interview by Jason...

Is this clearing something you can do on your own or do you need 2 or more people?

Are there any clearing specialists in the UK?

That is a good question and I can only answer for myself. I need a clearing practitioner to help me. He charges under $50US per hour and I have a certain disposable income and that is how I am proceeding.

He works over the phone or SKYPE. SKYPE cuts out the need for a local practitioner. He has clients all over the world. There is a passionate ongoing debate in the Freezone where one side says phone auditing is bad and another side says it works. It is working for me is all I can say.

Best to interview a few practitioners and decide for yourself. If they start to badmouth someone else in order to position themselves with you, then you might want to find a more evolved practitioner.

I wish you the best and I hope you hook up with a good clearing practitioner who performs his task simply. The more clearing work you do the more you will be able to do some of it for yourself, so it is not necessarily a "forever" proposition.

Jonathan Burke says he is a clearing practitioner and if he works over the phone he might not have to be in the UK to work with you, or he might refer you to someone if you want to work face-to-face.

You might get lucky and hit paydirt with your first practitioner or you might get shuffled around a bit before you find someone who is most syncopatic with your particular needs.

best of luck,

Gnosis

[Phtha]

I to am much more interested in self help techniques, or stuff that I could do with friends or family. I personally would have a hard time trusting a stranger to work on me at a deep level.
Also, and no offense to anyone, I will not pay money for 'spiritual' work of any kind. I can understand where people come from who charge, but that is the old pairofdime http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb50/Iysun77/currencyparadigm.jpg
Money is used to control us and adding more fuel to the fire no longer works. :lightsabre:
This is why I give Bill and Kerry my full support, the money fraud is also Xposed! It's time to get this stuff out to the masses free of charge, and live free of money!

Anyways sorry to derail a little there, thanks for the info on this stuff, keep it coming.

[Gnosis5]

Thank you for explaining the meaning of 'Declared'. It must have been tough.

Here is a link to a zip file containing 20 Scientology books including "Fundamentals of Thought" as referenced above.

http://www.scientology-london.com/downloads/files/books.zip

Besides Dianetics 55, my all time favorite is axioms and procedures and the "PDC" lectures. The "PDC" lectures are considered a classic. I think even a few ETs attended that lecture :-)

best,
Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

I understand where you are coming from and yes we are imperfect in an imperfect system. My practitioner is less controlling because he publishes everything he knows to help people learn to help themselves, but he will charge for his time if someone is demanding his time. I think that is fair. My hubby has a business and he charges for his time and expertise, but he does not keep any secrets about his techniques from his customers.

The Self-Analysis is a good DIY project with friends and family. And you won't be revealing anything to them on a deep level, so it might be right up your alley, eh!

Do you personally live free of money? If so, how have you evolved to that stage? I am getting to the level where I feel that I don't work for money, I just have money. Plus all the Clearing I do is not for dollars, there is a different kind of "pay" or "energetic exchange" that is more valuable to me than money that I receive from the beings I work with in the way I work with them. Instead of a money system I am operating more on a FAITH system.

It is important ethically, if one chooses to use someone's time up, to energetically exchange with them to the extent that both parties are happy with the eXchange. The willingness to exchange can be said to be a measure of the client's actual intention or demand for improvement. Low intention, low demand equals low results imho. Does that sound fair?

best,
gnosis





I to am much more interested in self help techniques, or stuff that I could do with friends or family. I personally would have a hard time trusting a stranger to work on me at a deep level.
Also, and no offense to anyone, I will not pay money for 'spiritual' work of any kind. I can understand where people come from who charge, but that is the old pairofdime http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb50/Iysun77/currencyparadigm.jpg
Money is used to control us and adding more fuel to the fire no longer works. :lightsabre:
This is why I give Bill and Kerry my full support, the money fraud is also Xposed! It's time to get this stuff out to the masses free of charge, and live free of money!

Anyways sorry to derail a little there, thanks for the info on this stuff, keep it coming.

[Phtha]

Yes I have nearly gotten to the point where I am money FREE. I didn't have to visit a grocery store last summer for intance as I tried my hand at gardening, and nearly blew my mind at how easy it was and how much food one can get from such a small area. :lmao:

I often talk with people about this, and they always bring up how it is we need money, and I joke by saying " I know, but the reason I need money is because you think you need money".
So yes this is a problem that can only be fixed on a massive scale, everyone needs to see that it is money that stops us from having abundance by creating scarcity.

Its just a different consciousness is all, rather then wanting payment in terms of money, I would happily accept gratitude and feel great knowing I helped someone. What payment is worth more then that?

Think of how you help friends and family for free, for the joy of helping, now imagine doing that with all of the rest of your family here on the planet.

Here is a great quote I recently came across:
"Before our white brothers came to civilize us we had no jails. Therefore we had no criminals. You can’t have criminals without a jail. We had no locks or keys, and so we had no thieves. If a man was so poor that he had no horse, tipi or blanket, someone gave him these things. We were too uncivilized to set much value on personal belongings. We wanted to have things only in order to give them away. We had no money, and therefore a man’s worth couldn’t be measured by it. We had no written law, no attorney or politicians, therefore we couldn’t cheat. We were in a really bad way before the white man came, and I don’t know how we managed to get along without the basic things which, we are told, are absolutely necessary to make a civilized society."
-- Lakota Sage Lame Deer (from John Lame Deer, Seeker of Visions)
http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/

There is a strong movement brewing, that will take us all away from the control of money, it is only now starting to take form.:thumb_yello::thumb_yello:







Do you personally live free of money? If so, how have you evolved to that stage? I am getting to the level where I feel that I don't work for money, I just have money. Plus all the Clearing I do is not for dollars, there is a different kind of "pay" or "energetic exchange" that is more valuable to me than money that I receive from the beings I work with in the way I work with them. Instead of a money system I am operating more on a FAITH system.

It is important ethically, if one chooses to use someone's time up, to energetically exchange with them to the extent that both parties are happy with the eXchange. The willingness to exchange can be said to be a measure of the client's actual intention or demand for improvement. Low intention, low demand equals low results imho. Does that sound fair?

[Gnosis5]

Yes, my true pay whenever I did help to clear someone, and right now I'm clearing Hubby, but my "True Pay" is that wonderful feeling I get when my past clients (and now Hubby) finally arrive at their personal big insight that totally clears them of a fixedness or a fixed polarity.

Ideally, no exchange of money works for me anytime. Realistically, I have never had a "free client" who did not make my work much more difficult than a client who was willing to pay for my time. What do I do about that? Even if I do not need the person's money at least I want their full cooperation. With Hubby, I demand that he exchange by fixing things around the house that he can best fix. Then I know whether or not I am having my time wasted. I am not talking about my service, I am talking only about my time. Even a child wants to help their parents who give loads of time to them -- it is a native instinct, imho.

best,
Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

Speaking of food, I went for 60 days with water only and I felt great and I did not have to spend any money on food, just water. And I could have continued longer but my IN-Laws are here now and I did not want any discord. When they leave I will go on a "long fast" again. I did not become anorexic or "skinny" or any bad side effects.


best,
gnosis



Yes I have nearly gotten to the point where I am money FREE. I didn't have to visit a grocery store last summer for intance as I tried my hand at gardening, and nearly blew my mind at how easy it was and how much food one can get from such a small area. :lmao:

I often talk with people about this, and they always bring up how it is we need money, and I joke by saying " I know, but the reason I need money is because you think you need money".
So yes this is a problem that can only be fixed on a massive scale, everyone needs to see that it is money that stops us from having abundance by creating scarcity.

Its just a different consciousness is all, rather then wanting payment in terms of money, I would happily accept gratitude and feel great knowing I helped someone. What payment is worth more then that?

Think of how you help friends and family for free, for the joy of helping, now imagine doing that with all of the rest of your family here on the planet.

Here is a great quote I recently came across:
"Before our white brothers came to civilize us we had no jails. Therefore we had no criminals. You can’t have criminals without a jail. We had no locks or keys, and so we had no thieves. If a man was so poor that he had no horse, tipi or blanket, someone gave him these things. We were too uncivilized to set much value on personal belongings. We wanted to have things only in order to give them away. We had no money, and therefore a man’s worth couldn’t be measured by it. We had no written law, no attorney or politicians, therefore we couldn’t cheat. We were in a really bad way before the white man came, and I don’t know how we managed to get along without the basic things which, we are told, are absolutely necessary to make a civilized society."
-- Lakota Sage Lame Deer (from John Lame Deer, Seeker of Visions)
http://sites.google.com/site/livingwithoutmoney/

There is a strong movement brewing, that will take us all away from the control of money, it is only now starting to take form.:thumb_yello::thumb_yello:

[MaikaNz]

I find it funny how hubbard uses the good nature and curiosity of people to lure them into these churches and then zap.. ready to wear puppet.


Ron hubbards own son called him a fraud.
French govt convicted him of fraud in 1952
Banned from britain 1959 stating that scientology was socially harmful
Ron hubbard was openly racist

Gerry Armstrong is one of the most important people in Scientology’s history. As L. Ron Hubbard’s personal archivist, he unleashed the documented evidence that shows Hubbard lied about virtually every aspect of his life.

Creator of the e-meter Volney Mathison:

In 1964 Mathison stated: "I decry the doings of trivial fakers, such as scientologists and the like, who glibly denounce hypnosis and then try covertly to use it in their phony systems.

It seems that ron hubbard was rotten to the core long before any of the sheep joined the organization. Many, many high ranking scientologists have left scamtology and revealing the atrocities, questionable practices and fraudulent deals which is condoned and enforced by hubbard and the sea-org (militaristic arm of scientology).

ENEMY: SP Order. Fair game.

May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.
— HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967, Issue IV, L. RON HUBBARD

This is who ron hubbard is.

www.xenu-directory.net
www.xenutv.com
www.xenu.net

[jonathan Burke]

So this doesn't start into a flame war, it doesn't take long for someone to do exactly what was covered in the Camelot interview, and that is attack.

The technology works and has even saved my life through it's application in an incident at gun point. Had I not been trained, I would not be here today. I can say this without reservation.

Hubbard has a lecture called "Why people don't like you." It's part of the Clean hands Congress, which the name has been changed current day. Go figure..

Hubbard has always said, and I find this to be the case, if it's true for you, it's true for you. if it isn't don't use it, go somewhere else. I am a trained auditor and have seen miracles performed as a standard daily practice. Miracles as usual basically. Correct application is everything. If you do that with this information you will not be disappointed.

You can find something negative about anything if you have that ambition.

The technology works period. If you don't like the thread go elsewhere at the click of a button. No one is selling anything here, it's a free sharing of data in a safe place. (sic)

I know who you are and what you are doing maikaNz. [I would like to know - Moderators]

As far as finding the books guys, well done! See if it works for you.

It will if you apply it standardly.

Concerning the Fair Game reference, the current Church does use that and in the sense it was used on this forum, it was never intended. It was cancelled in the early seventies by Hubbard. Later to be covertly used by the current regime.

Arthur, the son mentioned above, was a plant from the day he was born. Put there to create problems from the inside by the powers that be. I was there, I know. Were you?

As far as any other negative criticisms, the proof is in the pudding, the tech works. The internet teems with negative data on the subject because it works and "they" don't want anyone to have it. Period.

It's an enemy line from the get go. If it helps people, that's all that matters.



Here to help.

JB

[MaikaNz]

Wow.. There is someone on youtube that used almost that exact same speech, right down to the "It's true for you" statement.

The next statement I'm expecting from you should be:

"All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."
-- Arthur Schopenhauer


I am Anonymous. Anonymous consists of everyone that has lost someone to scientology through disconnection or death. We are not a terrorist group or paid actors like scientology claims. We are not an organization, we are the people, we are the public.

I lost a childhood friend of 20 years to scientology. She turned from a beautiful, loving, caring woman to a scientology fanatic. She disconnected from me after me asking her to do background research on the religion. Thats some powerful brainwashing to break a 20 year friendship. I'm not the lone case. Scientology has been responsible for destroying families all over the world.

Stop the Cancer


Fair Game Policy was reinstated in 1983.

For all those people on this forum that regularly practice discernment and independent thought, go to:

www.xenu-directory.com
www.xenu.com
www.xenu.net

[Phtha]

Thats great Gnosis. I too am moving away from food as much as possible, I fast at least one day a week, I know my body will tell me when I'm ready.

There are well over 10000 people in Russia and 100s of 1000s of people in India who live off of not but Sun, Water, and Air.

One of the most famous "SunGazers" is Hira Ratan Manek who has underwent controlled studies for Nasa regarding his method of living without food. He has gone up two 4 years without food.
I would personally recommend Sun Gazing as it has done wonders for me, if this peaks your interest, here a video lecture from Hira Manek explaining the process and the science behind Sun gazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlCJPxxKoaY
And his home Url: http://solarhealing.com/

Sungazing is of course, a very ancient art, mentioned in many texts, and referenced in many native cultures.


Speaking of food, I went for 60 days with water only and I felt great and I did not have to spend any money on food, just water. And I could have continued longer but my IN-Laws are here now and I did not want any discord. When they leave I will go on a "long fast" again. I did not become anorexic or "skinny" or any bad side effects.


best,
gnosis

[Gnosis5]

Hi, there! I think we can be friends ! At last, somebody who understands me :wall: Hey, why don't we encourage each other to achieve those high levels once again (I'm sure we were there in past lives), and also include turning off the sleep program, as the ex-scientologist interviewed said.

I'm putting in a garden for the first time, but I really think sprouts are even better for one, but someone has to grow the seed plants, lol, DUH!

cheers!
gnosis






Thats great Gnosis. I too am moving away from food as much as possible, I fast at least one day a week, I know my body will tell me when I'm ready.

There are well over 10000 people in Russia and 100s of 1000s of people in India who live off of not but Sun, Water, and Air.

One of the most famous "SunGazers" is Hira Ratan Manek who has underwent controlled studies for Nasa regarding his method of living without food. He has gone up two 4 years without food.
I would personally recommend Sun Gazing as it has done wonders for me, if this peaks your interest, here a video lecture from Hira Manek explaining the process and the science behind Sun gazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlCJPxxKoaY
And his home Url: http://solarhealing.com/

[Gnosis5]

I put the interview up in audio format here for those that would prefer to listen to a robot rather the read a monitor. :lmfao:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2B01A272033C0B56

Hi Jonathan, yes... please share whatever knowledge you can about how to achieve total recall. Any books you can recommend or online documents even?


Thank you for the audio transcript -- I'm glad I heard that stuff. I already knew some of that stuff so it was good to hear it from someone else.

[Gnosis5]

Thank you for representing the opposite end of an ancient fixed polarity. It gives me direction and impetus for my clearing work.

best,
gnosis






I find it funny how hubbard uses the good nature and curiosity of people to lure them into these churches and then zap.. ready to wear puppet.


Ron hubbards own son called him a fraud.
French govt convicted him of fraud in 1952
Banned from britain 1959 stating that scientology was socially harmful
Ron hubbard was openly racist

Gerry Armstrong is one of the most important people in Scientology’s history. As L. Ron Hubbard’s personal archivist, he unleashed the documented evidence that shows Hubbard lied about virtually every aspect of his life.

Creator of the e-meter Volney Mathison:

In 1964 Mathison stated: "I decry the doings of trivial fakers, such as scientologists and the like, who glibly denounce hypnosis and then try covertly to use it in their phony systems.

It seems that ron hubbard was rotten to the core long before any of the sheep joined the organization. Many, many high ranking scientologists have left scamtology and revealing the atrocities, questionable practices and fraudulent deals which is condoned and enforced by hubbard and the sea-org (militaristic arm of scientology).

ENEMY: SP Order. Fair game.

May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.
— HCO Policy Letter of 18 October 1967, Issue IV, L. RON HUBBARD

This is who ron hubbard is.

www.xenu-directory.net
www.xenutv.com
www.xenu.net

[MaikaNz]

You are welcome. Its always good to see both sides of the story. Discernment and skepticism is healthy.

[Gnosis5]

Yeah, I know who he is too, interesting you brought that up. I wasn't going to say anything: I'm still processing some fixed dualities that have LRH's name attached to them (long story). It all works out for good :-) If Ron had not compiled so much data for we Westerners I'd probably be spending a lifetime drinking tibetan tea and eating crackers, studying the Vedas. Oh, wait a minute, I'm doing that right now!! Tea and crackers, I mean, lol.

cheers!
gnosis







So this doesn't start into a flame war, it doesn't take long for someone to do exactly what was covered in the Camelot interview, and that is attack.

The technology works and has even saved my life through it's application in an incident at gun point. Had I not been trained, I would not be here today. I can say this without reservation.

Hubbard has a lecture called "Why people don't like you." It's part of the Clean hands Congress, which the name has been changed current day. Go figure..

Hubbard has always said, and I find this to be the case, if it's true for you, it's true for you. if it isn't don't use it, go somewhere else. I am a trained auditor and have seen miracles performed as a standard daily practice. Miracles as usual basically. Correct application is everything. If you do that with this information you will not be disappointed.

You can find something negative about anything if you have that ambition.

The technology works period. If you don't like the thread go elsewhere at the click of a button. No one is selling anything here, it's a free sharing of data in a safe place. (sic)

I know who you are and what you are doing maikaNz. [I would like to know - Moderators]

As far as finding the books guys, well done! See if it works for you.

It will if you apply it standardly.

Concerning the Fair Game reference, the current Church does use that and in the sense it was used on this forum, it was never intended. It was cancelled in the early seventies by Hubbard. Later to be covertly used by the current regime.

Arthur, the son mentioned above, was a plant from the day he was born. Put there to create problems from the inside by the powers that be. I was there, I know. Were you?

As far as any other negative criticisms, the proof is in the pudding, the tech works. The internet teems with negative data on the subject because it works and "they" don't want anyone to have it. Period.

It's an enemy line from the get go. If it helps people, that's all that matters.



Here to help.

JB

[MaikaNz]

Nope I'm not Mark Bunker.

[jonathan Burke]

Here's the deal, differentiate from the current regime, and the technology. I am not the current regime. I am alienated from two of my 5 kids due to being expelled. I don't blame the technology. That is a wrong target. Heck I don't blame the people in the Church who are worker bees. I don't blame anyone.

I take responsibility for being there and communicating. There is no such thing as a victim.

If it works it works. If it doesn't for you or you blame the Illuminati for corrupting the Church that's your purogative.

Sanity is the ability to recognize similarities and differences. I am not, nor are any of these people on this Board, the Suppressives who use an altered policy to alienate people from their loved ones.

These are two different things. People on this board and IRS controllers running a pirated Philosophical movement, two different things.

As for Anonymous, that caused more problems than solutions. Thus not the greatest good for the greatest number. I don't hide behind a screen name or call myself anonymous which is a generality. I have the confront to say who I am and help people.

I am empathetic to your predicament as I am there myself but I will not cut myself off from or deny others the ability to make up their minds with ALL the information.

People can think for themselves in some circles still.

JB

[MaikaNz]

I understand brother. I love you and all living beings and I am in no way making this personal to you or your beliefs. Beliefs in themselves are harmless, but the practices and abuses is what I and Anonymous are against. You are our brothers and sisters.

I've had too many instances of harassment from members of the church snooping around our private property, taking photos through our windows, phone calls day and night, spam email and at one point taking photos of my kid leaving school. We have learned to keep a low profile to avoid being stalked. This stuff is just creepy compared to our picketing rallies.

[jonathan Burke]

Thank you.

This stuff works. I KNOW this. The group itself is the fastest shrinking religion in the world due to their abuses. They became that way because it's a dwindling spiral when you do the things the higher ups (Illuminati and IRS Lawyers) have done to their staff and their public. I was on staff, I saw the misapplication, reported it and got hammered for trying to do what Hubbard really said to do.

I got paid $6 a week for a 90 Hour work week, sometimes not at all. I got blamed for doing the right things that were at that time good policies.

I don't blame anyone because in the end it was all worth it. I have saved peoples lives as an auditor many times, no kidding.

Thank you again for the acknowledgment. :)

I am sorry to hear of your loss, really, I fully duplicate how you feel.

JB

[MaikaNz]

90 hour week for no pay ouch! I'm glad you are safe. Thank you for your heart felt sympathies to my loss. I am proud to call you friend.

[Gnosis5]

Thats great Gnosis. I too am moving away from food as much as possible, I fast at least one day a week, I know my body will tell me when I'm ready.

There are well over 10000 people in Russia and 100s of 1000s of people in India who live off of not but Sun, Water, and Air.

One of the most famous "SunGazers" is Hira Ratan Manek who has underwent controlled studies for Nasa regarding his method of living without food. He has gone up two 4 years without food.
I would personally recommend Sun Gazing as it has done wonders for me, if this peaks your interest, here a video lecture from Hira Manek explaining the process and the science behind Sun gazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlCJPxxKoaY
And his home Url: http://solarhealing.com/

Sungazing is of course, a very ancient art, mentioned in many texts, and referenced in many native cultures.

Even Sungazing does not indicate to me anymore. Do you recall when we were energy production units and we lit up our own suns? Boy, those were the good ole days -- never to be revisited, hopefully, lol.

I am my own battery (please don't get the image of an energizer bunny, lol) :lightsabre:

best,
gnosis

[Gnosis5]

That is what I call "speaking to the hand"!

joy,
gnosis


Here's the deal, differentiate from the current regime, and the technology. I am not the current regime. I am alienated from two of my 5 kids due to being expelled. I don't blame the technology. That is a wrong target. Heck I don't blame the people in the Church who are worker bees. I don't blame anyone.

I take responsibility for being there and communicating. There is no such thing as a victim.

If it works it works. If it doesn't for you or you blame the Illuminati for corrupting the Church that's your purogative.

Sanity is the ability to recognize similarities and differences. I am, nor are any of these people on this Board, the Suppressives who use an altered policy to alienate people from their loved ones.

These are two different things. People on this board and IRS controllers running a pirated Philosophical movement, two different things.

As for Anonymous, that caused more problems than solutions. Thus not the greatest good for the greatest number. I don't hide behind a screen name or call myself anonymous which is a generality. I have the confront to say who I am and help people.

I am empathetic to your predicament as I am there myself but I will not cut myself off from or deny others the ability to make up their minds with ALL the information.

People can think for themselves in some circles still.

JB

[jonathan Burke]

Speaking to the hand? Clarify Dr. Mc Coy...

JB

[Gnosis5]

Speaking to the hand? Clarify Dr. Mc Coy...

JB


Actually I prefer to be called "Queen Mother of Peace and Glory", but I'll play along, lol.

I referred to the avatar of the hand palm.

[Gnosis5]

I like this link -- it is new:


http://lrh.myftp.org/

[Phtha]

Hello Dear Gnosis, I'd be happy to call you a friend. :thumb_yello:
I think what you suggest would be fun, perhaps in this new year we can sort something out, I'll be quite busy these coming few weeks.

Thanks for the reminder about sprouts, I normally have a jar of them germinating but forgot about that lately. :original:



Hi, there! I think we can be friends ! At last, somebody who understands me :wall: Hey, why don't we encourage each other to achieve those high levels once again (I'm sure we were there in past lives), and also include turning off the sleep program, as the ex-scientologist interviewed said.

I'm putting in a garden for the first time, but I really think sprouts are even better for one, but someone has to grow the seed plants, lol, DUH!

cheers!
gnosis

[mu2143]

You have to think about why do we drink water and eat food?
Everything is around you is a holograhpic projection, but it needs a light source from within. The higher the frequency the more power and creation is within.

Like higher densities contain more dimensions like more collors etc ...

The main reason that where inslaved is that the modified us and polluted the planet. This was done over time and time again till we did not remember any more what we really where and that was the trap.

We can heal our selfs only we don't remember how to do that, because of the genetic modification and pollution and trauma. What it look like why where not able to remember is that our soul or spirit is now using its own power to blok its own light. That what was explained in the interview.

To get out of the loop is to detox your body first, because most of our foods are old GMO from different civilization it is hard to get the right stuff.
But you have to start with something to get it going.

The less your body is polluted the less water you need,because why do you need to drink water if everthing is hollograhpic ?Only if you body generates pollution, you drink polluted water or death water like we drink today.
and poisioness food we eat.

Some of thing you can remove from your diet to get thing started.

This also reminded of a comment made by Allex Collier that you don't need to stop eating meat or other bad stuff to evolve. Because now there going to slowly pull the freqency up for the ones that choicen to evolve.

In my case I have been working on my own spirit from the time I really woke up that was around april 2008. Thats when the first time beings I still do not know who they are start working on me.

You can get ahead start by cleaning out your body, so this will help the process. If you can get access to your spirits knowledge than you can heal your self and stop polluting your self.

The less your body gets polluted the less water you will lose thats probley the key to get off the water and food.

[TruthWillSetUFree]

Thank you for explaining the meaning of 'Declared'. It must have been tough.

Here is a link to a zip file containing 20 Scientology books including "Fundamentals of Thought" as referenced above.

http://www.scientology-london.com/downloads/files/books.zip

Thanks for the books!

Are these original or have they been 'edited' versions?

Truth

[Connecting with Sauce]

Thanks for the books!

Are these original or have they been 'edited' versions?

Truth

This is my question too... Especially as there is no dates on these .pdf's, thanks for the links... but for me I'm most interested in what has been removed :)

We will see how long it takes my 1950's copies to arrive :)

[Gnosis5]

I think I agree with just about everything you said and I think to eat or not to eat or in between the two is a personal preference, not a bandwagon, like some vegetarians like to get on :-)

Senior datum, we are creators of energy first and foremost. Take it from there.

gnosis




You have to think about why do we drink water and eat food?
Everything is around you is a holograhpic projection, but it needs a light source from within. The higher the frequency the more power and creation is within.

Like higher densities contain more dimensions like more collors etc ...

The main reason that where inslaved is that the modified us and polluted the planet. This was done over time and time again till we did not remember any more what we really where and that was the trap.

We can heal our selfs only we don't remember how to do that, because of the genetic modification and pollution and trauma. What it look like why where not able to remember is that our soul or spirit is now using its own power to blok its own light. That what was explained in the interview.

To get out of the loop is to detox your body first, because most of our foods are old GMO from different civilization it is hard to get the right stuff.
But you have to start with something to get it going.

The less your body is polluted the less water you need,because why do you need to drink water if everthing is hollograhpic ?Only if you body generates pollution, you drink polluted water or death water like we drink today.
and poisioness food we eat.

Some of thing you can remove from your diet to get thing started.

This also reminded of a comment made by Allex Collier that you don't need to stop eating meat or other bad stuff to evolve. Because now there going to slowly pull the freqency up for the ones that choicen to evolve.

In my case I have been working on my own spirit from the time I really woke up that was around april 2008. Thats when the first time beings I still do not know who they are start working on me.

You can get ahead start by cleaning out your body, so this will help the process. If you can get access to your spirits knowledge than you can heal your self and stop polluting your self.

The less your body gets polluted the less water you will lose thats probley the key to get off the water and food.

[Aztar]

http://lrh.myftp.org/ <---Goldmine

Thanks for the link:original:

[Barron]

Hi Jonathan

I agree with your comments totally re the Church. It used to be an excellent org some 25 -30 years ago and then turned really sour and a money making machine! As you said, the technology (techniques) are indeed very good and there are ex-Scientologists around that can offer their services if required. many so called "splinter groups" did form and operate outside of the church when it went way down hill all those years ago. (Speaking from experience)

[Gnosis5]

http://lrh.myftp.org/ <---Goldmine

Thanks for the link:original:

That's my "GOOD" !!!

[jonathan Burke]

Hi Jonathan

I agree with your comments totally re the Church. It used to be an excellent org some 25 -30 years ago and then turned really sour and a money making machine! As you said, the technology (techniques) are indeed very good and there are ex-Scientologists around that can offer their services if required. many so called "splinter groups" did form and operate outside of the church when it went way down hill all those years ago. (Speaking from experience)

Thank you!

Here is a link to Pierre Ethier,http://www.upperbridge.org/ the only Class XII auditor outside of the church who has the cajones to Confront the church and still get people up the bridge to the original upper levels. He is a friend of mine and my auditor.

He is still auditing and repairing the flubbed products currently produced by the group in present time. There is a TON of good info on this site and he is the nicest guy you would ever want to meet as well as a flubless standard tech auditor....

Jonathan

[Gnosis5]

Thank you!

Here is a link to Pierre Ethier,http://www.upperbridge.org/ the only Class XII auditor outside of the church who has the cajones to Confront the church and still get people up the bridge to the original upper levels. He is a friend of mine and my auditor.

He is still auditing and repairing the flubbed products currently produced by the group in present time. There is a TON of good info on this site and he is the nicest guy you would ever want to meet as well as a flubless standard tech auditor....

Jonathan

Yes, I too have heard nothing but good things about his skill as an auditor.

[bosr]

I found the books via a Google search and provided the link for those that may be interested but have no further information regarding the validity or age of the documents.

Jonathan may be able to provide an answer.

Thanks for the books!

Are these original or have they been 'edited' versions?

Truth

This is my question too... Especially as there is no dates on these .pdf's, thanks for the links... but for me I'm most interested in what has been removed :)

We will see how long it takes my 1950's copies to arrive :)

[Gnosis5]

We have the original PABs starting May 1953. I believe PAB stands for Public Announcement Bulletin. We also have the early Technical Dictionary because Scientology is a science of mind that has its own terminology. There are also on-line Technical Dictonaries.

[Barron]

Hiy Gueys n Gals

For some of these hard to get, now out of print books you can always try searching here: www.abebooks.com - an excellent site for older our of print titles.

Cheers
Barron

[Shairia]

I thought this was one of the most interesting Project Camelot interviews. I have never belonged to any church, but found the processes discussed extremely interesting and worth researching. Thank you for posting more links to follow up on. I can't wait to get started.:original:

[jonathan Burke]

We have the original PABs starting May 1953. I believe PAB stands for Public Announcement Bulletin. We also have the early Technical Dictionary because Scientology is a science of mind that has its own terminology. There are also on-line Technical Dictonaries.

PABS= Professional Auditors Bulletins

JB

[jonathan Burke]

I found the books via a Google search and provided the link for those that may be interested but have no further information regarding the validity or age of the documents.

Jonathan may be able to provide an answer.

The best rule of thumb is to compare to the original books, which can be found for peanuts on Ebay and some of the other sources mentioned here in the thread.

As an aside, a year or so ago the church had a book burning of the original books in Pasadena, Ca. Can you believe that? It's true unfortunately.

They are trying hard to get rid of the evidence of the original texts.

I posted that event on My Space and the church went as far as to call my Dad's neighbor and get him on the phone as he wouldn't answer his own to try and get him to get me to remove the post on the site. Amazing.

These upper level Mgmt. guys are truly sinister.


Anyway, compare the pdf's to the original books to be safe as I have found a few "additions" that aren't supposed to be there when I first got them.

Happy to help,


Jonathan

[Gnosis5]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_ykFKOOgZQM&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_ykFKOOgZQM&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>l


5:00 how famous people are "replaced".

[Connecting with Sauce]

The best rule of thumb is to compare to the original books, which can be found for peanuts on Ebay and some of the other sources mentioned here in the thread.

As an aside, a year or so ago the church had a book burning of the original books in Pasadena, Ca. Can you believe that? It's true unfortunately.

They are trying hard to get rid of the evidence of the original texts.

I posted that event on My Space and the church went as far as to call my Dad's neighbor and get him on the phone as he wouldn't answer his own to try and get him to get me to remove the post on the site. Amazing.

These upper level Mgmt. guys are truly sinister.


Anyway, compare the pdf's to the original books to be safe as I have found a few "additions" that aren't supposed to be there when I first got them.

Happy to help,


Jonathan

Wow! I got yesterday my copy o the fundamentals of thought, which I thought was a 1956 copy... it wasn't :( it is the 1976 copy of the book the 15th printing.

Question is this book likely to have the original texts? or will this already have been modified? It has a large RED cover with a old man with a white beard.

I'm interested to know if this is a "good" copy to read?

John

[jonathan Burke]

Yep, you are totally fine with that year. 81' -82' is when everything went down and changes started occurring.

JB

[Connecting with Sauce]

Yep, you are totally fine with that year. 81' -82' is when everything went down and changes started occurring.

JB

Thanks John I can start reading now... it is in the pile of 10-20 other half read books I have :) but reading's much better than TV...

[jonathan Burke]

Here is a wordpress blog by Marty Rathbun, a former upper exec that managed to get out of what the group has been morphed into.

This is a great inside look at what has happened to the group and what needs to be done to fix it.

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/31-factors/

JB

[Gnosis5]

Thank you, JB

[jonathan Burke]

You're welcome.

Here's a link to a "good" tech forum from a former Case Supervisor/Auditor of Sacramento Organization. It's a nice forum.

http://lrhtech.hostoi.com/

As well as some more enlightening information...

http://www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com/

JB

[TRANCOSO]

Aztar, thanx for sharing that goldmine link. Truly awesome!

[jonathan Burke]

Here is a great link for ex management members in the COS:

Things are looking better as Mis"carriage" has gone to far lately with his pervion of the technology of Scientology. A refomation is in the wings.

http://www.scientology-cult.com/

The tech works, the criminal organization perverting doesn't.

JB

[Gnosis5]

FOIA Government Coverup RE Scientology

It would make perfect sense to me how a Black Ops mindset could use knowledge revealed in Scientology publications. If I wanted to be an effective Black Ops I would be using portions of Scientology. It can be a powerful tool for good or for wrong.

http://www.rense.com/general41/coverup.htm

[Gnosis5]

Notes From Dane Tops Camelot Interview:

Everything Dane reveals about electronic implanting and ETs has come up in my own sessions, and it goes back as far as, in my case, as far back as the Annunaki themselves go back. Of course, there is a bigger being controlling the Annunaki.

So far, all of the technologies these beings have done to me, both for the last eons and in present time (abductions), including my between-lives segments, all of this is being undone with one of the latest technologies to come out of Dianetics/Scientology. It is called R3X. "R" stands for Routine and three was the number of the routiine. That was the way processes were named back in those days.

However, I can also see the near future need for further developments such as Dane describes here:

"Now Hubbard showed us how to reverse these techniques that are sometimes done to us in between lifetimes for the purpose of keeping our memories destroyed - to keep us in Earth prison. He showed us how to recover knowledge of who we are and what our personal histories are.

My friend here has worked on undoing electric shock. I did it with one person too... and what an undertaking when it happens on one’s current body. It takes skill, but there are methods to undo electric shock: where the effect can be reversed, and memory and body health can be restored.

But it does require that you take it to the point of being able to remove the spirit fully out of their body – because the brain circuits are partly destroyed by that kind of electronic application – so the person’s got to have more than just a body healing.

But if you can remove a being from his body, they have the power to heal their own body and heal what’s happened to their synapses, and, most of all, core spirit energy, from those kinds of experiences. "

[Barron]

Restoration of lost Scientology materials complete

By MATT SEDENSKY, Associated Press Writer Matt Sedensky, Associated Press Writer – Fri Jan 8, 5:34 am ET

CLEARWATER, Fla. – More than 1,000 unreleased recordings of lectures by L. Ron Hubbard and reams of corresponding writings have been unveiled in the culmination of a 25-year project to locate, restore and transcribe lost pieces of the Scientology founder's work.

Though sure to be derided by the church's many critics, its followers say the materials amount to an opportunity to deepen understanding of the religion and to release the last known unpublished Hubbard works dealing with Scientology and Dianetics.

"It would be like discovering that Buddha, unbeknownst to anybody, had sat down and wrote down the entirety of his discoveries and it could be verified that he wrote it," said Tommy Davis, the church's top spokesman.

The new materials were announced in a New Year's celebration at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles that was broadcast to churches around the world last week and include 1,020 lectures and hundreds of corresponding booklets from courses and other sessions with Scientology ministers from 1953 to 1961. They include discussions of how Hubbard arrived at the principles of Dianetics and his research on everything from decision-making to personal responsibility.

They were recovered through a painstaking hunt that led members to find tapes and papers in a basement in Wichita, Kan., a storage trailer in Phoenix, and a garage in Oakland, Calif., among other places. Some of the materials were believed to have been lost.

"We've been able to restore lectures we literally never thought would be heard again," Davis said.

The release marks the third and final batch of Hubbard works to be distributed as part of the decades-long project initiated by Hubbard himself but carried out after his 1986 death by the church's current leader, David Miscavige. Releases in 2005 and 2007 included updated versions of 18 basic Scientology books to correct transcriptional errors, as well as hundreds of other lectures given by Hubbard.

"It's so huge for our religion having these materials. It's really a renaissance," said Davis. "It's as if it's a rediscovery of our own scriptures and what they hold and what they mean."

All the materials — contained on 970 compact discs and corresponding booklets in 57 binders — are being shipped out of a Los Angeles warehouse to Scientology churches worldwide. Unlike writings related to upper-level coursework, they are not considered confidential; they are available to those outside the church and members of all levels.

They're also available for sale to members for about $7,500, a price likely to raise some eyebrows, though the church insists no one will be denied access to the materials simply because they don't have the money.

Reading rooms at Scientology centers worldwide, and at its spiritual headquarters in Clearwater, are full of members poring over Hubbard's words, and the founder's quotes are frequently uttered by followers. The publication of Hubbard works, even if they contain just seemingly minor revisions, is of interest to the most devoted Scientologists.

"Scientologists are literalists, fundamentalists in the sense that they take Hubbard's writings as literally true," said David Bromley, a professor of religion and sociology at Virginia Commonwealth University who has written extensively about Scientology.

Founded in the 1950s by Hubbard, a prolific science fiction writer, Scientology teaches followers they are immortal spiritual beings, or thetans, who live on after death. The church says there is a supreme being but its practices do not include the worship of a god.

It has enjoyed worldwide growth and exposure unlike any other new religious movement, but has also been routinely called a cult in which members are scammed and abused. The church claims millions of followers in the U.S. and millions more internationally, though one respected count, the American Religion Identification Survey, reported the estimated number of Americans who identify as Scientologists plummeted from 55,000 in 2001 to 25,000 in 2008. Davis says the survey's number is impossibly low.

___

Church of Scientology: http://www.scientology.org/

American Religious Identification Survey 2008: http://www.americanreligionsurvey-aris.org/

[Gnosis5]

Hi, Barron, yes I saw that this morning. Some good will come out of that for sure. I wonder how much new data is of significant value for further improving scientology technologies? Although the $7500 price tag is elitist imho. In perspective, other religions also extract their 10-20% tithes.

[Barron]

Hi, Barron, yes I saw that this morning. Some good will come out of that for sure. I wonder how much new data is of significant value for further improving scientology technologies? Although the $7500 price tag is elitist imho. In perspective, other religions also extract their 10-20% tithes.


Hiya.

Yes, very high price tag and that has been one of the church's massive failings since it was taken over some 30 odd years ago -a money making machine charging exhorbitant prices for their courses. And of course, one had to as many of them as necessary in order to get "Clear" and every member had to at least get to "clear"!! Not to mention all the "OT" levels all beyond that too! And of corse these all cost much more money too!!!

[Gnosis5]

And, in my experience one of the best, most profitable courses I took was the inexpensive communications course that they offer to newcomers. I actually got raises at work after I took the communications course because people were praising me to my boss for how well I maintained my composure in a stressful situation.

[Gnosis5]

In more ways than one going "Clear" seemed to me like a $60k proposition. In the Freezone there is a better way than the Church offers for a price that I can afford. I'm doing it right now. Also, out of the Church I started to stretch and look at other [forbidden] clearing technologies, such as the meridian clearing techs such as EFT, Idenics, Mace Method, PEAT, TM, etc., etc.

However, even if I did someday totally drop the scientology model completely, I still think that Buddha was onto something and there is a distinctive phase shift into exponentiality that we called "Clear", and I postulate it is a universal achievement for all beings in all universes. Yet to be fully tested.

From that point it is probably a more intuitive and individual path because a being presumably would be in better communication between himself and his other "parts", especially what we tend to call here our "Higher Self".

Interesting session today where I helped a being return to the "All that is". I'll have to write it up someday.

blessings,
Gnosis

[twelvestrand]

I like this link -- it is new:


http://lrh.myftp.org/

Link isnt working for me? :sad:

[Gnosis5]

Link isnt working for me? :sad:

Appears the link is broken????

[Gnosis5]

Bashar: Questioner experiences meltdown in Scientology

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I experienced a happy meltdown when I first came into Scientology as I knew nothing I was being confronted with fit into my mental templates about the mind or the spirit, and I knew my life would never be the same again if I followed this path. Definitely pushed my IQ up several notches from the books and lectures (which are all free now).

Wish I had followed it with more personal integrity, but I would still follow it today, only with more personal integrity and outside the formal Church.

[Gnosis5]

Another defection group -- in California:

http://freezone-tech.info/

[Gnosis5]

The Auditor's Code 1954

From Professional Auditor's Bulletin No. 38

1. Do Not Evaluate for the PRECLEAR

"The main difficulty of the preclear is other-knowingness. An auditor auditing a preclear has before him someone whose last stronghold of owned knowingness is his engram bank and various mental phenomena. As much as possible, the preclear should be permitted to discover the answers to this phenomenon through the process of auditing. .... The auditor is working from a body of knowledge as to how all minds and spirits function. ....The auditor should confine himself to giving the proper auditing commands and engaging in enough "dunnage" (extra and relatively meaningless talk) to maintain a two-way communication line.

The early writings were the best :original:

[Fredkc]

A tale of two friends.

I'll begin with a close personal friend of my 1st wife and I. Reserved, brilliant, a person who needed a highly structured life, though he never reveled in it. His ability to see where the planet's dispositions would lead it were truly clairvoyant. 30 years later, his "seeings" are still accurate, and on target.

Sadly, his need for structure, exactness was often carried by him like an open sore. It was there that the C of S sunk their hooks.

A few months later, broke, stressed, he informed them it was time to "take a break". He was in need of some perspective, and... he also needed to make the money flow "back up", if he was to continue. We'd had no contact with him during those months, until his "break".

What followed was the most despicable, systematic destruction of someone's life one could imagine. They attacked through his friends, neighbors, family, even his ability to work. His family with our help, at times, went as far as to move him out of one residence, in the middle of the nite, and relocate him. Rarely did it last 2 weeks, before they had found him again, and the harassment continued.

His "crime"? He needed some space. Had not spoken "against" the org, just needed money, and some time to continue. Their efforts over the next two years made this impossible. To this day I still believe that the C of S was in part responsible for his successful efforts to get away from them forever. Unable to live any form of civil life, he committed suicide.

My friend was not mad, he was driven there, if such a thing is possible. 25 years ago, when this happened, if I could have located the people who had done this, I would have happily sent them along after him.

I don't think I have shared this with 4 people in my entire life, so understand that the subject, and the "Church" (dear god what a name) isn't something I am fond of.
_________________________________________________
I just have to bring up the fact that the practice of calling naysayers "subversives" has got to be the most telling form of self-identifying psychosis available in the English language.
_________________________________________________

I have a friend of some 15 years. I have worked with him professionally off and on. He and I have probably spent 6 - 15 hours every month at each others houses, meals, sporting events, and lots of conversation. He is a degreed physicist, and engineer, I would say he is both intelligent, and honest. A good friend.

Yeah... a Scientologist. He was an auditor for them, in fact, and also shows some skill in what he's called their "touch system" for relieving pain and other things. I must also add that he has no association with the C of S, and has not in the 15 years I've know him. In fact he has never mentioned them at all, only the "process". But, not a meeting goes by where he does not respond, at least twice, with the words, "You know, Ron says that...".

And for 15 years, I have found few premises brought up in this fashion, that I disagreed with, but I have always internally cringed because of my experience with the org.

Yes, 15 years is a long time to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Frankly, I've yet seen anything that couldn't be gained through other means. Also, until a post in Bill Ryan's thread, I never looked to "other" orgs who used the LRH stuff, nor knew they existed. I knew many groups existed but most seemed, at quick glance, to be nothing but "protest" or "refusenik" groups, so I had no interest.

So, now I know "something else" ;)
Thanks to Bosr (thank you) I have copies of 20 books, to look through. Perhaps a chance at "getting a bit smarter" on the base subject. Perhaps engage in some deeper conversations with my friend on it.

And perhaps begin a process of separating some knowledge from a disgusting method of using it, and in the process get a handle on some forgiveness.

Thanks for the thread. There's my rant, and rave.

Fred

[sunnyrap]

I have been in the group since the early fifties, that is last life time and this life time. The technology works unbelievably well if applied standardly. I am a trained auditor and would be happy to answer any questions.

I was Declared 3 years ago for telling my friends and family about what is going on. There is a lot more than was covered in the interview as to what has happened and why. It's a huge topic to cover because it works and that's the reason for the attacks on it.

There are a tremendous amount of pieces to the puzzle in Scientology that Camelot is assembling into a full picture. It doesn't have them all but with the use of some of the techniques, many, many more can be found. This was even suggested by Hubbard in the sixties using the e-meter to do "archaeological" research into precise Earth and Pre-Earth history.

If you need any info, just let me know, happy to help. :)

J.B.
Jonathan-I have some experience with the C of S when I lived in L.A.--I took acting classes in the basement of the Hollywood C of S building from someone fairly high in the church. At the time, I was a recent 'est' graduate and follower of Werner Earhart (not knowing then that he'd gotten a lot of his material from LRH), and esties tended to shy away from Scientologists back then. Anyway, the recent interview restimulated my interest in the technology many of my CofS friends were enthused about and I tried to find a book on Dianetics. I wanted to locate a 1950 version to make sure I had one that hadn't been 'altered' as the interview suggested. I found plenty of books, but most were 1990 and later.

I ended up buying Dyanetics that was printed in 1988 and it doesn't mention being 'updated'. It sounded like all the undesirable changes came in in the early 1990's? Is this correct?

[Gnosis5]

Jonathan-I have some experience with the C of S when I lived in L.A.--I took acting classes in the basement of the Hollywood C of S building from someone fairly high in the church. At the time, I was a recent 'est' graduate and follower of Werner Earhart (not knowing then that he'd gotten a lot of his material from LRH), and esties tended to shy away from Scientologists back then. Anyway, the recent interview restimulated my interest in the technology many of my CofS friends were enthused about and I tried to find a book on Dianetics. I wanted to locate a 1950 version to make sure I had one that hadn't been 'altered' as the interview suggested. I found plenty of books, but most were 1990 and later.

I ended up buying Dyanetics that was printed in 1988 and it doesn't mention being 'updated'. It sounded like all the undesirable changes came in in the early 1990's? Is this correct?


The worst "alteration" to Dianetics was the padding that the publisher demanded, thus the lengthiness and repetition of the book. I prefer "Dianetics Today" or "Dianetics 55". There is also a short Dianetics picture book and a Dianetics DvD.

My first read was quite revealing because while I was reading about the "reactive mind" I was at the same time seeing it all around me :shocked:

[Gnosis5]

My appreciation for auditors, a Ditty:

You got the key to my polarity
You return me to my singularity

Implanters are left holding the bag
- follow the bouncing ball -
Hey, fellas, anyone for a game of tag!

Once thought, twice thought, thrice thought
- "What's that - that- that ?" -
Blackness backdrops a glimpse of truth long fought.

You got the key to my polarity
You return me to my singularity

[Gnosis5]

New Scientology Materials link, in English and German. Has a good "Search" function too.
http://www.stss.nl/

I have the original small books and am going through them again. Best stuff is pre to early 50's.

[Gnosis5]

What I particularlly appreciate about scientology materials is that all theory is tied in with actual processes one can run to a good result, and there is a whole buffet of processes and once one understands the theory behind the processes it is a matter of deciding which processes to attend to.

There is a bulk of actual "Doingnesses" balanced with the teaching.

Don't like walking to that wall process? No problem, here are five others....

It is really written for someone who wishes to be his own spiritual guru and/or be a spiritual coach for others.

EFT, PEAT, and Transcendental Meditation are modern-day supplements. The process that I work with, R3X, is a ramped up version of Dianetics.

cheers!
Gnosis

[Phtha]

Thanks for these links and information Gnosis. :)
I've been watching the older interviews and clearing seminars with LRH. I have also read a few of the documents, I will be reading more for sure.
What struck me about the LRH method (I can't speak for the modern day official scientology) was that it is Alchemy 100%! That is what Ron was teaching without a doubt. Everything is the same, including the steps, and the goals... The only difference was that Ron updated the terms big time so that they made much more sense to the average person, as alchemy, especially during the middle ages, was extremely hard if not impossible to make sense of without certain keys. I was actually quite struck by the similarity between the two! :thumb_yello:

I also believe that this may have had something to do with Rons eventual downfall. As he underestimated his enemies. I'm not sure that Ron himself knew of the similarity, and that the people he was really working against knew well his science already, from a slightly different perspective. Anyways thats just a thought I had, maybe Ron did know and indeed maybe alchemy is where he originally got his knowledge from.

What I particularlly appreciate about scientology materials is that all theory is tied in with actual processes one can run to a good result, and there is a whole buffet of processes and once one understands the theory behind the processes it is a matter of deciding which processes to attend to

cheers!
Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

Very interesting and I wonder what off-planet society introduced it here? On this planet, what was the original source of alchemy? I'm asking because I am aware that Ron Hubbard did dig into the Vedas which I understand is the most ancient extant spiritual manual. I thought alchemists worked with actual elements?

Some people have said that it is re-worded magic.

I was with Hubbard last lifetime when he and Parsons (in Pasadena) were calling up the demi-god Pan. Aleister was concerned that these two newbies might really mess themselves up. Did they?

[Phtha]

Know one knows for sure the original source of Alchemy, its beginnings are shrouded in mystery. We do know that it dates back to at least Ancient Egyptian times from their glyphs alone, but before that it is not known.. at least in the 'public' spectrum.

Alchemists did work with elements, as they believe strongly in the above/below so that if they understood nature it will help them understand themselves. Alchemy was a science of the mind and spirit more then anything though, just like Scientology.

Here is a video that gives a quick over view of the alchemical process..
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3510569191085492326
The steps start at roughly the 11:30 mark if you wanted to zoom ahead, its quite interesting. This is of course just a quick overview the study it self is much much more in depth.

[Gnosis5]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2498145/L-Kin-Vol3-The-Pied-Pipers-Of-Heaven-Who-Calls-The-Tune
(http://www.scribd.com/doc/2498145/L-Kin-Vol3-The-Pied-Pipers-Of-Heaven-Who-Calls-The-Tune)
A good supplemental history, the Pied Pipers of Heaven.

[Gordopangrawit]

Sunnyrap: I read the interview and thought that I'd like to have a jolly good look into that....Found the book, ordered it and then read the wikipaedia entry...

Anyway the Tops interview implied that the book has been constantly upadated, and that the earlier pressings were slightly more intact. A local 2nd hand bookseller website led me to biblio.com where they had a fine selection of earlier editions. Ultimately it was an issue of choose how much I wanted to pay and what condition I wanted it to be in. There were early seventies ones at a few dollars. I got a nineteen-fifty pressing at a modest price. Green hardcover, a few stains and a free antique catalogue card.

Good luck
Gg

[Luminari]

In the interest of common sense, I have renamed this thread, and changed 'Dave' to 'Dane'.... this should have been done a long time ago.

On a personal note, I bought the book 'Dianetics' after reading this interview. Fascinating..

Universally yours,

Lumi

the Mod team

[Connecting with Sauce]

The early 50's book I'd bought unfortunately was damaged in the post so the seller LUCKILY sent me a 2007 copy of the 'same' which I'd bought for £38!!!! I've just sent it back and plan to get a full refund...

I'll check out biblio.com though, thanks.

[Gnosis5]

I have the original "Dianetics, The Original Thesis", copyright 1951, and
"Dianetics 55!", copyright 1955. I prefer them to the 1950 "Dianetics".

However, the DvD that shows a play-acted Dianetics session.

However, I also just recorded from SKYPE using "Pamela" a live session. Barring any unforeseen technical barriers, I should be able to send it to anyone who requests it.

Seeing a live session might help one to better understand what they are reading about Dianetics.

Just let me know if you wish me to send it to you.

cheers!
Gnosis

[oedilroed]

Hello Gnosis; Do you know if the "original Dianetics (1951) " Is available on the net as a PDF ?

If possible, can you send me that live session you mention ?
greetings, Oedilroed


I have the original "Dianetics, The Original Thesis", copyright 1951, and
"Dianetics 55!", copyright 1955. I prefer them to the 1950 "Dianetics".

However, the DvD that shows a play-acted Dianetics session.

However, I also just recorded from SKYPE using "Pamela" a live session. Barring any unforeseen technical barriers, I should be able to send it to anyone who requests it.

Seeing a live session might help one to better understand what they are reading about Dianetics.

Just let me know if you wish me to send it to you.

cheers!
Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

Please check your private messages, thank you.

[Gnosis5]

P.A.B. No. 38

PROFESSIONAL AUDITOR’S BULLETIN

From L. RON HUBBARD

Via Hubbard Communications Office

163 Holland Park Avenue, London W.11

__________________________________________________ ___________________

29 October 1954

THE AUDITOR’S CODE 1954

A Basic Course in Scientology—Part 5

1. DO NOT EVALUATE FOR THE PRECLEAR.

The main difficulty of the preclear is other-knowingness. An auditor auditing a preclear has before him someone whose last stronghold of owned knowingness is his engram bank and various mental phenomena. As much as possible, the preclear should be permitted to discover the answers to this phenomena through the process of auditing. What the auditor is doing is steering. If he tells consistently what is to be found or what will happen, the preclear will not get well. The steering, of course, is a covert but highly acceptable method of inviting the preclear to find out. Giving a process’s commands is an invitation to this discovery.

The auditor is working from a body of knowledge as to how all minds and spirits function. The preclear could even be trained in this high generality without harm, and certainly can be audited in such a high generality, but its particularities and peculiarities, the phenomena which occur, must not be “telegraphed” to the preclear before they occur, and when something has occurred to the preclear the auditor should not then come up with its explanation. This was the entire failure of psychoanalysis. The preclear would say something, and the analyst would then tell the preclear what it meant.

The auditor should confine himself to giving the proper auditing commands and engaging in enough “dunnage” (extra and relatively meaningless talk) to maintain a two-way communication line.

[tintagelcave]

Oh wow! That subject brings me back to the end 60's, when I was in Amsterdam, visiting a Scientology Church office I was invited in.
I was curious to see what was going on and entered a big hall with lots of people being trained or imprinted, as it felt like. It gave me the creeps, seeing people talking in a frenzy, to submissive frightened looking students, or such like. I decided to immediately leave the building and was obliged to buy the Dianetics books by Ron Hubbard, before being able to go outdoors(!)
Speaking of indoctrination! I was 18 at that time and bought the books, took them home, never read them and finally gave them to a second hand bookshop. That was my experience with Scientology.

[Gnosis5]

Your reaction is easily understood: I think my first reaction was when I saw the e-meter -- ugh!

After hours of in-session looking at who I destroyed with e-meters (they've been around for millions of years) I am now safe to be around an e-meter :-) :mfr_lol: I actually now like my e-meter :-)

Thank god for the "Auditor's Code" :mfr_lol:

[justpeter]

I joined the Church of Scientology just after the mass exodus in the 1980s but I didn't know about the Dane Tops letter until I saw it on Camelot a while ago.

Anyway, I was in Scientology for about 16 years in total. I got to Clear in the 80s then did the "secret" OT levels and reached OT5. I was also a Class 5 Graduate auditor and case supervisor. In fact I enjoyed training so much I also did a huge number of admin courses. Those who were in Scientology will know that all of the Hubbard Policy is held in the "green volumes" known as the Organization Executive Course. Well I studied the whole course - all of the green volumes - twice and completed an internship which involved working at every post in a Scientology organization. So, even though I never joined staff I was qualified to hold any and every post in Scientology. In fact I knew so much that I was eventually Declared (ex-communicated) for telling senior executives that they were "squirrelling" - a Scientology term for illegally altering Scientology tech.

So, having recently joined this forum I can put myself forward as another person who can answer questions about Scientology.

By the way, a little-known fact is that the "State of Clear" as described in the first Dianetics book isn't correct. Hubbard later amended this in a small book entitled "The Book Of Case Remedies". In this he basically says that the state of Clear mentioned in Dianetics was really a much higher state. In other words, the actual state of Clear is less than that mentioned in Dianetics. This makes much more sense because I haven't met a person yet, Clear or OT, who has anything near the abilities mentioned in Dianetics.

Hope this helps.

[Gnosis5]

Hello JustPeter,

Just went "Clear" in the Freezone September '09. No prior auditing. Since I did not have anyone to compare myself with I went reading the ancient Pali Buddhist descriptions of some states and abilities they recognized. Some of these indicated to me.

The best way I can describe how it felt to me was that I felt like an old diesel engine that had suddenly been converted to a Ferrari engine. Like an angel on steroids -- couldn't move this 56 year old body fast enough for me :-) Eventually got used to that and am still reaching higher and higher states of stability and awareness and, best of all, simply divesting myself of compulsive attachments. Underneath it all I am very simple, and much wiser than before. :original:

Buddha talked about those who only needed to return a few life cycles and those he called non-returners, etc. Of course one must take in account the being's preferences. I think Buddha would agree that a Clear, is a Clear, is a Clear...and beyond of course. Now I have attention of clearing myself in an ever-widening sphere of influence.

Of course, some abilities regained along the way and would require some drilling to hone my skills in regard to said abilities.

This is my first absolutey AWESOME lifetime in EONS, and I am sure if people knew why Gautamo kept reaching out to people after he attained his state....your guess is as good as mine :original:

best,
gnosis

[justpeter]

Hi gnosis, glad to hear you're winning:original:

I think in one of your earlier posts you mentioned EFT. I'm a big fan of this too. A couple of years ago I was auditing a friend of mine to Clear and I kept thinking that EFT would have been so much easier in a lot of sessions. I stuck with standard Scientology tech and we got there in the end but I would definitely recommend EFT to anyone wanting to improve themselves.

Peter

[Gnosis5]

Hello Peter,

Yes, I also took a PEAT course which is a bit more sophisticated than EFT, however, EFT is worth becoming an expert in. As long as the person understands that once they start on a clearing path it is a bit like opening a Pandora's box and requires some commitment to a known (and sometimes unknown) end. Also, as a general rule, people cannot initially clear themselves doing it solo, and it is smart to align oneself with a committed group or a trained practitioner.

My first step is to become an expert in R3X before I jump around and start, well, you know, squirreling :nono:

Soberly, though, any technology can be improved upon and I would be a fool to say I have the last word in clearing technologies. What is very real to me though is that if I had of had R3x anywheres on my spiritual history and used it correctly, there would be a lot less baggage to handle today :-)

It took me a little less than one year of dedicated (3 times a week sessions) clearing work to reach "Clear". That probably would have been unheard of in any previous time in earth history with the usual spiritual practices.

Using Buddha's frame of reference, I removed myself from having to enter again into the "Stream of Life", but at current state would be doing at least one more lifetime, but it will be a very uptone and more responsible lifetime, not full of self-imposed heavy karmic debt.

[Barron]

In the interest of common sense, I have renamed this thread, and changed 'Dave' to 'Dane'.... this should have been done a long time ago.

On a personal note, I bought the book 'Dianetics' after reading this interview. Fascinating..

Universally yours,

Lumi

the Mod team

Good on ya Lumi..... but just don't go near the physical church today cos it's nothing like it was 30+ years ago! And besides if ya join up, and then try n leave they'll keep hounding and pestering you like some really freaky cult!
Still, the original technology/ philosophy is very powerful - as you've no doubt already discovered!

Cheers dude.

[Gnosis5]

I agree. Spiritual clearing became a real possibility for me in the real world simply using an improved version of Dianetics. I use the David Hawkins calibration as a developmental guideline and that has raised 90 points, so as pertains to consciousness, yes that is a part of me that is being cleaned up.

As with all consciousness, potential raising systems, grab the goodies and run :original:

[Bernd]

Did anybody see this?

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=1786568759674213741&ei (http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=1786568759674213741&ei)

The Beginners Guide To L. Ron Hubbard

This is the story of Hardeep Singh Kohli discovering the philosophy of Scientology outside the official church traveling to Russia in his pursuit of knowledge experiencing Scientology first hand. Includes never before filmed footage of actual auditing taking place.

Bernd

[Gnosis5]

I was told that he personally was quite impressed even though he could not express it in the filming. He later returned for some more sessions.

I have also made recordings of some sessions that I give over skype. I am not a paid practitioner, but a student of clearing practices. My focus is on R3X, a ramped up version of Dianetics. Listening to a recorded session or two helps one to get an actual idea of what goes on in a session.

[raregem]

I would like to direct folks to the website: www.metatech.org which is owned by Stephanie and Michael Relfe. Stephanie and Michael have two things which may interest you all. 1) Kinesiology / clearing based on Dianetics. Background is given on the differences between original Dianetics and revised books after the death of L.Ron Hubbard. 2) Suggested reading of the free e-books "The Mars Records" (Michael's story) and "The Mars Force"(Pats story). Michael Relfe goes through clearings with Stephanie as the practitioner. It is a lot of pages but very easy to read through. Gives an exact idea of how clearing works by recording the details of each session. The questions and answers that are spoken.
There is much more regarding Aliens and the like on the site, as well.
She also has an article regarding James Casbolt (09/14/08) posted and Duncan O'Finioan (05/16/07)posted, SuperSoldiers.

[Gnosis5]

I enjoyed reading that website -- I trust data that way. She also brings up a good question about why whistleblowers did not have their memories wiped and were allowed to freelly recall things. Seems that memory wipe is standard procedure. Bielak however did have his memory wiped and worked to recover the data.

[Gnosis5]

Well, after hundreds of hours of clearing sessions, I went back to my bookshelf and re-read this one: http://www.scribd.com/doc/8649227/EXCALIBUR-Filbert

This time more of it made sense to me. Clearly I am starting to see more wholistically.

Page 300 is a great place to start reading too!

[oedilroed]

The signifance of the Dane Tops intervieuw ( for me personaly) is that it drives home a number of interesting conclusions:

1. Reality is quit different from what we have been taught to believe by religion - including Eastern religions, and new age: we are not here to "evolve" or "work off Karma" - we are here because we have been captured, mind controled, and kept ignorand of our extended reality.:wall:

2. There exist a network to capture those who have died in astral prisons, where they get programed to make sure their consciousness remains limited, this includes also the destruction of memory.

3. That way souls are recycled for further use and abuse in a new "life" upon the prison planet Earth. :mfr_omg:

4. The destruction of memory makes the definition and archievement of real progress impossible - perpetuating at infinitum the imprissonment on the prison Planet. - Note, that James speaks of all the above on his site.

5. Dying and suicide will solve nothing; we are bound to get captured into the same traps (because we do not remember ):thumbdown:

6. All this talk about a "higher self" (implying it is an entity other than our present personality, thus defacto not us) is just a smoke screen to lure us to submit to a hive mind.

7. Restoration of memory is what we need to know that we are soul, and will forever do away with all this "higher self" B.S.:lightsabre:

8. What we all need most is, memory recovery; to know ourselves, and to be
able to die a serene death, without danger of being recycled into the prison planet.:thumb_yello:

9. Original Scientology made available the techniques for memory recovery - and was subsequentely destroyed by the illuminati.

10. The original techniques and teaching seems to be still available, yet the odds to go through this process are quit daunting; even when in posession of the right material, how to find suficient time and energy to work through it while still having to function in society ?

Perhaps, one day when we get acces to Alien contacts and technology; new possibilities might emerge, like technology and comunity forming, but for the
time being such are but wishfull thinking.

I would like to hear from members here, how they did manage to restore their memories, and, what we as individuals who have to work either alone, or with a friend or spouce, can do.

[Gnosis5]

I could not have summed it up better, and not from reading about it in numerous books, but from my own chain of incidents that I am currently recalling, tracking down my own elusive (staring me right in the face) key-in mechanism. If I did or were able to convey to you the magnitude of everything you stated above I'm sure some would go mad if they were not on a sure clearing path.

The good news is that once a being has cleared out all of his own particular charged up areas as an implanted and implanter and trapper of other beings -- at first it was just light games and then go seriouser -- well I can only and will only tell you what I have personally seen, but I do know others who have seen the same only from different angles. And I have not yet reached the beginning of my own history as a being.

Clear is the first step to surviving well on this planet, albeit still in prison. For example, I drove by a police station today and asked myself how I felt about it and my answer to myself was that I felt okay about it considering that I probably invented it!

The attitude is the trap, but we have a long long history of entrenched attitudes so it might take a person a couple of years to free himself up of enough fixed polarities/dichotomies/attitudes to be able to see the prison as an opportunity in disguise :-) An opportunity to be infinitely Sovereign/Creating beings no longer trapping or being trapped by sub-optimum responses.

Yes, you zeroed in on forgetting -- why did I forget whole eons of existences which I am now recovering? The answer is in the early 50's books and materials if anyone really wants to get some theory of Dianetics and Scientology, PLUS some workable processes toward the above-stated ability levels.

My trip out of the rabbit hole(s) has been exclusively the vamped up version of Dianetics, called R3X. I am making spiritual gain as a being towards my personal infinity, and I am becoming more successful in my everyday life. R3X has practical and infinite gain, linear and exponential. A being who truly knows his history as both an implanter and implantee (dramatizations of the poles of Ego) will come out the other end a wiser, pure, and incorruptible Sovereign being with infinite possiblities/potentials, AND not likely to ever fall into degradation.

Buddha called them "Non-Returners" in the cycle of reincarnation.

Oh, yes, my ability to help put order into a very confused society on this planet (to say the least) is what being a Cleared "OT" is really all about -- higher levels of response-ability. Clears and Cleared OTs simply can and DO bring larger fields of consciousness out of their non-confrontational stupors and to their original self-realizations. They can take the Game Constructs (i.e., Matrix) apart if they so choose.

In the past there were the compulsive irresponsible "Gods" but never before a Cleared God, a responsible "god". A responsible god has no minions to lord it over. Therefore the word God is no longer even a valid concept.

We can all now have it within our reach (if we so desire) to realize ourselves as those responsible cleared beings. Have to clean ourselves up first :-)

There are clearing practitioners in the Freezone. Caveat Emptor. An educated consumer is the best consumer :-) But I wouldn't be too picky considering the scarcity of available auditors. I know my auditor is booked and I'm practically booked, giving free auditing services at least twice a day, plus my own sessions.

Filbert's "Excalibur Revisited" (page 300), and L. Kin's "Pied Pipers of Heaven" are taken from the case histories of thousands and thousands of hours of past life/existences recalls of hundreds of people who knowingly (and tenaciously) put themselves on the Clearing path using Dianetics and Scientology standard practices.

The only reason we published our case histories as eons-old beings was to create a stir of remembrance in others and as a type of map out of the rabbit hole.

In between the non-optimum solutions incidents there were some great times, but even greater capabilities are here for us.

[oedilroed]

It becomes quit obvious that becoming "clear" is a major desirable goal in one's existence; as a pasport to " a beter future"
However, none of this is ( as might be suspected ) simple or straightforward.

1. Knowledge of the overal situation has to be aqcuired.
2. Knowledge of the revelant protocols to deal with # 1 has to be aqcuired.
3. The protocols must now be implemented - otherwise this is just a "methaphysical study " ( or, another name for the same: "mind****")
4. The help of capable, bona fide, dependable assistance (auditor) has to be secured.
5.all this will require a significant investment of time, energy and last, but not least - money. Tons of it.

A Job has to be done - regardless of the dificulties to be surmounted, also, there are no shortcuts in this: get it done , or forget it.

Bearing all the above in mind; time is also an important factor: how much time is required, and available, to get clear ?

While this question cannot be meaningfully answered, we see here the posibility of unfinished business: dying unclear.:mfr_omg:

Death may be sudden and unexpected, clear or not; the important issue: how to face death; for death is not for the unprepared or naieve.:wall:

My point: Even those who have to die unclear ( or not yet wholy clear) can still do a lot better than those who are totaly unprepared if they have knowledge of the possible pitfals and traps ahead: meeting "Christ" folowing "the Light", "Golden doors"....:thumbdown::nono:

Also: why are we reborn on Earth ? :sad:
Out there, there are alien civilisations with beings, who live in bodies quit similar to our own,who are not subject to prison plante conditions; how about being reborn there ? - and getting acces from childhood to the knowledge denied us ?:trumpet:

Matters might not be so simple as I state them: yet it would be good to know what are the real ins and outs.

Anyone comments ? , sugestions ?

[sunnyrap]

Thanks for all the tips. I found the 1950 version of New Edition Dianetics (reprinted in 1986). Hopefully it wasn't altered too much. There seems to be very many paths to the same goal these days. Recently, I've been following Burt Goldman (inventor of the original Silva Mind Control that both L. Ron and Werner Erhart got a lot of ideas from). He's now doing a program called 'Quantum Jumping' http://www.quantumjumping.com/blog/6-1-life-changing539/37222236/2/10105/68452

I'm also looking into the work of Rick Collingwood, an Aussie Mesmerist who is allegedly having great success reprogramming 'engrams' as CoS calls them using hypnosis.

[oedilroed]

Thanks for all the tips. I found the 1950 version of New Edition Dianetics (reprinted in 1986). Hopefully it wasn't altered too much. There seems to be very many paths to the same goal these days. Recently, I've been following Burt Goldman (inventor of the original Silva Mind Control that both L. Ron and Werner Erhart got a lot of ideas from). He's now doing a program called 'Quantum Jumping' http://www.quantumjumping.com/blog/6-1-life-changing539/37222236/2/10105/68452

I'm also looking into the work of Rick Collingwood, an Aussie Mesmerist who is allegedly having great success reprogramming 'engrams' as CoS calls them using hypnosis.



Quit amazing; this man claims that he has the secret to "sucsess" yet, why is he then making a living selling his "trade secrets" ?
Instead of folowing his own path of destiny ?:naughty:

If he is realy succesful, why does he need to sell his technique ?
or is this just another example of "doing good" ( for a fee) ?

[Gnosis5]

It becomes quit obvious that becoming "clear" is a major desirable goal in one's existence; as a pasport to " a beter future"
However, none of this is ( as might be suspected ) simple or straightforward.

1. Knowledge of the overal situation has to be aqcuired.
2. Knowledge of the revelant protocols to deal with # 1 has to be aqcuired.
3. The protocols must now be implemented - otherwise this is just a "methaphysical study " ( or, another name for the same: "mind****")
4. The help of capable, bona fide, dependable assistance (auditor) has to be secured.
5.all this will require a significant investment of time, energy and last, but not least - money. Tons of it.

A Job has to be done - regardless of the dificulties to be surmounted, also, there are no shortcuts in this: get it done , or forget it.

Bearing all the above in mind; time is also an important factor: how much time is required, and available, to get clear ?

While this question cannot be meaningfully answered, we see here the posibility of unfinished business: dying unclear.:mfr_omg:

Death may be sudden and unexpected, clear or not; the important issue: how to face death; for death is not for the unprepared or naieve.:wall:

My point: Even those who have to die unclear ( or not yet wholy clear) can still do a lot better than those who are totaly unprepared if they have knowledge of the possible pitfals and traps ahead: meeting "Christ" folowing "the Light", "Golden doors"....:thumbdown::nono:

Also: why are we reborn on Earth ? :sad:
Out there, there are alien civilisations with beings, who live in bodies quit similar to our own,who are not subject to prison plante conditions; how about being reborn there ? - and getting acces from childhood to the knowledge denied us ?:trumpet:

Matters might not be so simple as I state them: yet it would be good to know what are the real ins and outs.

Anyone comments ? , sugestions ?


Yes, definitely some barriers both internal and external, subjective and objective barriers.

First I had to get myself to a low enough condition (near death and way too negative) before I was willing to re-prioritize some of the "importances".

Then I had to logistically work myself to where I could afford the ongoing services of an auditor, which I did.

Then I had to experience a few failed auditors who did not work out for me for one reason or another, but that did lead me to the current auditor who I am able to work with long term. I became familiar with the different Freezone groups, I read some of the early 50's books and materials (Hubby had acquired a collection of them).

I have a disposable income of about $700 per month (once I decided that my auditing was more important than my Walmart trips, and other "hobbies", LOL).

After researching, I found an auditor who had a simple, effective, workable approach that I could understand and learn about (a type of Dianetics), and who charged a rate based on a long term commitment. Under $50 per hour -- most charge about $60 and up.

I also had to decide that auditing over the phone in the quiet of my room could get the job done (it has). Being semi-retired I was able to fit in with the auditor's rather booked schedule, but his 10am slot was not booked and so it has been 10am ever since.

My sessions are about 1hour to 1.5hours per session. I have gone Clear (in September) and in the last few sessions I seem to be looking at myself as a state of sovereign being (does not answer to anyone but myself) which is very interesting to say the least :-) It seems that in this state I will not violate nor allow myself to be violated, but I'm still learning about this new creation.

For me, Clear immediately felt like an angel on steroids and I could not get this old body to move fast enough for me and it had to get used to the new me. This is an ability that one gains through tenacity and knowledge and commitment with a trusted auditor. It is an ability that one needs to be taught how to maintain, to keep oneself cleaned up so to speak. It is definitely worth the 'trouble'. Companion studies and reading are required to fully enjoy Clear abilities. A good auditor is helpful.

I also get great pleasure being a volunteer auditor and I take the people who cannot afford to pay for auditing. I am practically booked up.

Some people in the Freezone co-audit, which I think is possible with Dianetics at least. I personally would employ the R3X version of Dianetics as a reliable starting point. Robert DuCharme authored R3X.

I still perform my duties related to my business, and my domestic duties. Hubby says he is very happy with his new (more tolerant and more positive) wife.

My first round of sessions addressed this lifetime incidents only and that gave me immediate relief for this lifetime at least. I could have stopped there and enjoyed the rest of my life. I chose to take it further, and it has been awesome. I love my sessions into higher and higher truths about my origins.

The only "protocols" that I have attention on are making sure I get enough sleep and have not taken any drugs or aspirin or overdone the alcohol, and being generally able to naturally engage the "right brain" imagery and recall with the help of my auditor. My auditor is a very simple and relaxed person and not putting on any airs -- just being himself. When he is auditing me he suspends any attitudes that I might pick up on during the session so my attention is on my "case" and not on him, although I know he is there as a sort of anchor point. We also manage to crack a lot of jokes :lol3:

I have experienced having "tons of money" and lots of other material pleasures of this earth... you know what? ...I feel more wealthy and happier now than I did when I was less balanced regarding spiritual and material wealths. I still appreciate money, etc., and it is a more balanced appreciation. I am a much better money manager now.

Being 56 years old may have given me enough end-of-rope adventures and experiences and wisdom to know what I really needed at this time in my life.

It was Buddha who put the "brass ring" out there for me when he pointed out people who were "Non Returners" to this wheel of reincarnation.

[Gnosis5]

It becomes quit obvious that becoming "clear" is a major desirable goal in one's existence; as a pasport to " a beter future"
However, none of this is ( as might be suspected ) simple or straightforward.

1. Knowledge of the overal situation has to be aqcuired.
2. Knowledge of the revelant protocols to deal with # 1 has to be aqcuired.
3. The protocols must now be implemented - otherwise this is just a "methaphysical study " ( or, another name for the same: "mind****")
4. The help of capable, bona fide, dependable assistance (auditor) has to be secured.
5.all this will require a significant investment of time, energy and last, but not least - money. Tons of it.

A Job has to be done - regardless of the dificulties to be surmounted, also, there are no shortcuts in this: get it done , or forget it.

Bearing all the above in mind; time is also an important factor: how much time is required, and available, to get clear ?

While this question cannot be meaningfully answered, we see here the posibility of unfinished business: dying unclear.:mfr_omg:

Death may be sudden and unexpected, clear or not; the important issue: how to face death; for death is not for the unprepared or naieve.:wall:

My point: Even those who have to die unclear ( or not yet wholy clear) can still do a lot better than those who are totaly unprepared if they have knowledge of the possible pitfals and traps ahead: meeting "Christ" folowing "the Light", "Golden doors"....:thumbdown::nono:

Also: why are we reborn on Earth ? :sad:
Out there, there are alien civilisations with beings, who live in bodies quit similar to our own,who are not subject to prison plante conditions; how about being reborn there ? - and getting acces from childhood to the knowledge denied us ?:trumpet:

Matters might not be so simple as I state them: yet it would be good to know what are the real ins and outs.

Anyone comments ? , sugestions ?


Yes, definitely some barriers both internal and external, subjective and objective barriers.

First I had to get myself to a low enough condition (near death and way too negative) before I was willing to re-prioritize some of the "importances".

Then I had to logistically work myself to where I could afford the ongoing services of an auditor, which I did.

Then I had to experience a few failed auditors who did not work out for me for one reason or another, but that did lead me to the current auditor who I am able to work with long term. I became familiar with the different Freezone groups, I read some of the early 50's books and materials (Hubby had acquired a collection of them).

I have a disposable income of about $700 per month (once I decided that my auditing was more important than my Walmart trips, and other "hobbies", LOL).

After researching, I found an auditor who had a simple, effective, workable approach that I could understand and learn about (a type of Dianetics), and who charged a rate based on a long term commitment. Under $50 per hour -- most charge about $60 and up.

I also had to decide that auditing over the phone in the quiet of my room could get the job done (it has). Being semi-retired I was able to fit in with the auditor's rather booked schedule, but his 10am slot was not booked and so it has been 10am ever since.

My sessions are about 1hour to 1.5hours per session. I have gone Clear (in September) and in the last few sessions I seem to be looking at myself as a state of sovereign being (does not answer to anyone but myself) which is very interesting to say the least :-) It seems that in this state I will not violate nor allow myself to be violated, but I'm still learning about this new creation.

For me, Clear immediately felt like an angel on steroids and I could not get this old body to move fast enough for me and it had to get used to the new me. This is an ability that one gains through tenacity and knowledge and commitment with a trusted auditor. It is an ability that one needs to be taught how to maintain, to keep oneself cleaned up so to speak. It is definitely worth the 'trouble'. Companion studies and reading are required to fully enjoy Clear abilities. A good auditor is helpful.

I also get great pleasure being a volunteer auditor and I take the people who cannot afford to pay for auditing. I am practically booked up.

Some people in the Freezone co-audit, which I think is possible with Dianetics at least. I personally would employ the R3X version of Dianetics as a reliable starting point. Robert DuCharme authored R3X.

I still perform my duties related to my business, and my domestic duties. Hubby says he is very happy with his new (more tolerant and more positive) wife.

My first round of sessions addressed this lifetime incidents only and that gave me immediate relief for this lifetime at least. I could have stopped there and enjoyed the rest of my life. I chose to take it further, and it has been awesome. I love my sessions into higher and higher truths about my origins.

The only "protocols" that I have attention on are making sure I get enough sleep and have not taken any drugs or aspirin or overdone the alcohol, and being generally able to naturally engage the "right brain" imagery and recall with the help of my auditor. My auditor is a very simple and relaxed person and not putting on any airs -- just being himself. When he is auditing me he suspends any attitudes that I might pick up on during the session so my attention is on my "case" and not on him, although I know he is there as a sort of anchor point. We also manage to crack a lot of jokes :lol3:

I have experienced having "tons of money" and lots of other material pleasures of this earth... you know what? ...I feel more wealthy and happier now than I did when I was less balanced regarding spiritual and material wealths. I still appreciate money, etc., and it is a more balanced appreciation. I am a much better money manager now.

Being 56 years old may have given me enough end-of-rope adventures and experiences and wisdom to know what I really needed at this time in my life.

It was Buddha who put the "brass ring" out there for me when he pointed out people who were "Non Returners" to this wheel of reincarnation.

[oedilroed]

Grassroots or do it yourself Scientology;

From Dane's Top letter, we have learned that the Church of Scientology has been taken over and is converted in a chanel of desinfo, money making, and a scam in general.

However, one can wonder how much the Freezone is behind in that ( in money making).
At 55 I'am quit alergic to "groups" and anything that smacks of "new age"

I'am far more interested in learning something that I can do and apley myself
independent of any "authorities"

In my experience, the moment you gain a good grounding in any subject, you reach a point where you can help yourself, form your own understanding and opinions - quit independend of what other may think or say ( on the subject)

I suspect Scientology is not diferent: learn to be your own authority , instead of being dependend upon the "specialists": A husband and wife team who do their own editing. - With some ocasional coaching from an experienced auditor.

I believe such a team could cover a lot of ground, not only in actual editing, but also in construction of an E meter: Are there plans available of such ?

My husband is an electronic engineer, and can surely make any electronic device ( we are a husband / husband team) while I'am ( among other ) a fine mechanic.

[Gnosis5]

Exactly, could not have said it better. At first for me it started out as a dependency whilst I read and catch up in understanding of the processes I am running with the help of my auditor. The auditor seems to know and trust before I do that the answer is within me. Like a little child I take the hand of someone who simply has more data than I do, but like a child, I am also eager to learn and experience and mature. I know many former PCs (pre-clears) who now take themselves into solo sessions and do quite well.

Hubby and I took each other into sessions without the benefit of an e-meter. Our intentions were not perfect, but we learned. Personally I will not take myself out of the hands of my auditor until I complete this chain of engrams I am on and have arrived at the basic-basic of the chain and had a brief glimpse of who I really was (and am) before I allowed so much "error" and forgetfulness to disconnect me from the knowledge and trust of myself.

There are some basic truths that apply to everyone on this planet, but each person designed their own mechanism of reactivity.