Ex-Christian

[100thmonkey]

I know astrologically now is a good time to offload long held ‘story’. This is a defining part of who I am, and, even if nobody reads it, at least I’ve put it out there - and I haven’t found a better spiritual community to do this than Avalon, even of those sites I will link to at the end…

I’m interested in other people’s stories on this subject too, of those who were once christian but have since left.

Anyway, here’s the basics of my spiritual journey…
I used to believe the bible was the inerrant word of god, that those who thought there were contradictions in it just hadn’t had it explained properly. I used to read 'Creation' magazine and the 'Answers in Genesis' people had me fooled for a long while, thinking I was intelligent and scientific in my beliefs about the 6 day Creation, not gullible like those others who were swayed by ‘evil-ution’… :winksmiley02:

I knew there was one key to dismantling the bible though, but that it would never be found, because it didn’t exist...

Yet I had no fear of facing any argument against the bible, because the bible was God’s word, and, "If God is for you who can be against you?"
I had told myself that if I ever found any true contradictions in the bible then that would be grounds to dismiss the whole thing – because flaws are human, and the bible is the Word of God – God doesn’t make mistakes…
So if there were flaws then that would make the bible just another human authored document, no more valid than any other…
Of course I was bold in that belief because I knew it was impossible – and I was proud of it.

I was never happy in my belief though, I just thought there was no other truth, and I didn’t want to end up in hell for eternity, so I had to submit.

Christianity was a fit to my insular personality too, and going through adolescence it kept me isolated from ‘the world’ – soemthing I’m still having to reprogram myself from, with counselling.
The best way to avoid sex, drugs and drink was to just cut myself off from everyone. Be in the world but not of it.

Yet at the same time the basic indoctrinations made me feel unworthy to hang around with other christians of my age, because I knew my secret ‘shame’.
I knew I was a guilty, worthless, disobedient, piece of filth, fit to burn in hell forever, if I died right then.

Why?
…because I couldn’t help thinking about girls. Sex!
I was evil!
I tried to not think about it, but of course that is impossible.
Asking a teenage boy to not think about girls is like asking a hungry man not to think about food.
Can we resist our natural desire to breathe? or eat? No, it’s inbuilt…

Yet here is the diabolical genius of religion. Find something people can’t do without and bring it under the authority of God.
So sex is forbidden outside of marriage – and who has the authority to marry people? The church… (at least, back in the day…)

It doesn’t seem like much, except if there’s nothing else in your life.

A newsletter I subscribe to had this insightful quote:

Carl Jung pointed out that the principal product of religion is guilt and despair. Despair over this life, despair over our thoughts, despair over our desires, despair over our actions. Dr. Jung states that as we dwell on this despair we drive ourselves into repression in an effort to control our thoughts and desires. This repression then leads to depression, which fosters disease.

It was a disease of the mind.

When the Roman Empire was threatened with anarchy and being overtaken by barbarians they realised they couldn’t maintain their power over people by force of arms any more – they needed to preserve their power more ingeniously.
So Constantine united all the disparate religions under the banner of Christianity – and the Roman Empire eventually became the Roman Church. So that by the time the Barbarians overwhelmed the physical Roman Empire, those Barbarians themselves were already being christianised…

Rome’s power was still in place, the same elite bloodlines as Popes rather than Emperor’s.
The pantheon of god’s now the Saints.
Now the people would follow Rome's authority by their own programmed guilt - Fear of God rather than fear of man…

An in-built Centurion.
Their own minds turned against them as a means of remote control.

But I didn’t figure that out until later.
Back to the story…


One day I was curious as to what arguments the Jews had for rejecting Jesus, after all, isn’t he the fulfilment of their bible too…?
So I boldly stumbled onto the internet looking for answers.
I found a lot of info from Jewish websites that was anti-christian, especially pointing out flaws and contradictions in the gospel story.

“Ha, let me check that out… you just need to … Hmmm, really?
It does say that in the bible? Whoah!”

It seemed that imposible key I spoke of really did exist!

I wasn’t about to turn Jewish, but nevertheless it was a real ‘Matrix moment’.

That waking up to an alien reality. :mfr_omg:

Discovering the whole world, and life as you’ve known it, is so vastly different than what you’ve been indoctrinated to believe since the day you were born – and in rapid succession all your beliefs are shattered.
It was also absolutley liberating, exciting, mind blowing, yet with the dawning in my mind of how I’d lived my life so, so, wrongly.

It was horrific to finally ‘get’ the trap I’d been in, but joyous to realise the freedom now open to me.


I still had fears about daemons and deception though, what if I was being led astray by a daemon desperate to claim my soul? :nono:

Yet I had also begun reading magazines like Nexus and New Dawn.
In one issue of Nexus was an article about the ‘real matrix’ by some dude called David Wilcock…
:thumb_yello: Yesss!

I was drawn to his website and intrigued. I saw he had online books to read, “The Shift of the Ages”, but hmmm, it’s got chanelled material… How does he prove that’s not just daemons feeding the author lines?
I read it anyway – warily, seeking explanation.

I was impressed with the fact that one of the girls who channeled the Law of One was a christian and, as the bible says to do, ‘tested the spirits’ before a session. Even daemons can’t resist the power of the name of Jesus, so I believed, yet here they were happily continuing their sessions after such a test…
Hmmm, wow…


I was just as interested in the science though.
Through David’s brilliant explanations and ingenious assembly of evidence I started to see a wider spectrum of spirituality, that it’s not just God vs Devil, Good vs Evil, Daemons vs Angels, Black vs White, “You’re either with us or against us!”
…but that there are many densities, many levels and dimensions.
That spirtual entities can also be as honest or as deceptive as humans.

There is no daemon more evil than what a human is capable of. There is no angel more merciful than what a human is capable of.
We, humans and spirits, are all just the same, just some have bodies, some don’t.
It’s our level of awareness that makes the real difference.

That, most of all, I could be scientifically confident - that there really is no such thing as an eternal Hell!

That is liberation folks.
:groupwave:
I’m laughing tears of joy right now just thinking of those moments.
I’ve never felt so spiritually alive and free than reading those books.
Thankyou David, I will remember it forever. :wub2:


Anwyay,
despite my attempts to share this with my christian family, thinking they were as honest as me and if shown the light would come with me on a joyous journey of freedom… I was threatened with being cut off, that I was speaking with the tongues of daemons(!) and trying to drag my own family to hell!
That my father would cease all communication with me, because my words were really that of the devil, who he is duty bound to reject…
:wall:

If I hadn’t forced further communication with them, maybe I really would be cut off by now?
I do get along with my family - by simply not mentioning religion, unless we all want to get into a yelling match (it may start out polite and such, but, inevitably…)


It pains me though,
because I know they suffer.

My mother even in tears many times - because they truly believe their son is destined for an eternity in a lake of fire. :furious: I hate that the mind of such a loving person has been tortured that way. I wish they could understand what I do.


Somehow they don’t question how unfair and ridiculous hell is (I don’t even understand how I never did either. I guess I was more caught up in defending such things as part of the larger gospel framework than actually picking it apart), but…

:boxing:
If I am deceived, at least I am honestly deceived.
I don’t believe I deserve punishment for that.

...and shouldn’t any ‘punishment’ go to the deceiver, not the honestly deceived?

In other words, bible god’s sense of justice is seriously skewed. To the point I cannot accept it – even if it turns out to be the horrific truth.
The all-knowing one will just have to listen to my martyred screams of protest in hell for eternity…
Of course that horrible scenario is absurd… :sweatdrop:

I am earnest in my spiritual quest.
I am open to others and want to understand everything.

Yet still I struggle.
There are still issues of personal negativity for me to deal with – I want to be open about it though.
Maybe there are similar minds on this forum?

My own mind is in two places:

- absorbing, processing, claiming and sharing all the knowledge and higher spiritual wisdom that is now open to me - and this Camelot/Avalon community is the most magical place for that…

– yet having also to deal with the default mental programming I have had indelibly imprinted on my mind since birth, which has to be battled with every thought.


People here seem so open and free with their spiritual insights.
It’s great, and I’m in jealous admiration of that, because it’s not as easy to be so light for some.

I’m a deep thinker, so I can get pretty heavy, and may seem negative, or indignant – but really I’m just searching for truth like everyone else. I’m searching for ultimate fairness that I know must exist.


Reading some beautiful spiritual wisdom on a thread here, or a site there, I have in the back of mind, “Oh, I know what a christian would say about this…” which is really the negativity of what ‘my old-self’ would’ve said…

It hinders my development, because everything is not just absorbed in it’s purest form, it has to battle past the outdated filters in my mind.
Yes, it takes it’s rightful place in my mind eventually, but somehow the experience has been tainted.
:argue:

So with such constant inner struggle I now battle depression, but I try to do it without medication.
I don’t want to just block things out as the solution. I want to solve it.


I have instinctive reactions against even the words ‘Jesus’, or ‘Bible’ or any other of those Christiany things, especially if it’s being presented as some kind of positive… because I know that ultimately christianity, the bible, etc. is anything but positive.
Sure it works fine for some, but it’s not a one size fits all.
Of course nothing is, that’s the point.

I know this is an extreme statement, but I think that all of the love that is promoted by deluded christians everywhere (yes, of which I was one) is a flawed kind of love.

It’s true foundation is Fear.

The love and ‘mercy’ chrisitans feel is only because they are so grateful for being ‘saved’, and feel they owe god so much
– but ‘saved’ from what?

I call this “One-eyed Christianity”. :wink2:

Most evangelical types only pay attention to the fluffy, lovey parts of the bible and ignore the hellfire and damnation parts.
That’s understandable, it works for them and they’re happy – great – who can be against that?
Not me.

I would never criticise their chosen way of life – If only they weren’t charged by their holy book with spreading such fear based philosophy to others :sneaky2: (I can’t stand the thought of some innocent person, especially a growing child, being hooked into the burden of guilt and fear I experienced in christianity when I know I have the power to explode those myths).


Ultimately, there is an absolute dark side to the bible and that is, as most people know, Hell, and the God who invented it.
Eternal, with no escape. :furious:

I finally woke up to the fact that even if such a thing is real, I still am duty bound to reject the concept on principle, and I can not worship a god who sustains such a thing.
Not when there are so many better alternatives for eternity, that a truly omnipotent, loving, merciful god could have set up - my favourite example being Reincarnation (even ignoring which system is true or not, just the concept of reincarnation is better than the concept of eternal hell – and if all knowing god was in heaven deciding how best to save all his beloved creations then why the hell would he settle for eternal hell…?) :thumbdown:


Even the love and charity shown by christianity to others is really because they are commanded by the bible.
If the bible commands them to be hateful then they are hateful too. That is evident throughout history.
Gays know it, people wanting the benefits of stem cell research knew it, and so on… :zip:


If individual christians stay in such things as their own gratitude and love for their god then they will experience the benefits of those, for sure, but really, for someone who is a deep thinker, a deep questioner like myself, then it will inevitably be seen that such love is Counterfeit.
:mf_popeanim:
A counterfeit can be spent like the real thing, but is ultimately nothing.


I see christianity now for what it is - a tool of control, as dark as any the Illuminati has ever created.

Not just controlling lives but destroying the sanity of those who can’t simply have ‘faith’ in it’s vengeful brooding god, but are yet indoctrinated with it’s dogma.
It’s called Cognitive Dissonance, and it’s insanity, schizophrenia, you name it.

Talk about MK-Ultra,
Christianity is the greatest mass mind manipulation tool in history – it turns one’s own mind into an enemy – as if your own natural thoughts and instincts are the malevolent whispers of a slavering daemon.

That the only escape is to turn to that other imaginary fiend – Jesus – bow, beg, humble yourself, humiliate yourself, prove your submission and admit your powerlessness and worthlessness – and he will save you (or else).

There is no horror movie that has anything worse than the supernatural horrors born out of the bible.

There is no humiliation more soul destroying than to be told you are worthless and then forced to agree.
It’s the same level of horror you read about in Illuminati mind control stories, like Svali, etc.

I’m sorry to forum posters who have felt my opposition personally.
I get suspicious of those who are proud to be christian, because I know the insidious way christianity instructs it’s followers to spread the ‘good news’.

Really it is a Virus, immune to logic, befriending and attaching to any target in reach, insinuating into any group by any means, then gradually attempting to morph the target into it’s likeness.

It’s ignorant followers don’t even see anything dark in what they are doing – they may even feel genuine compassion for those they are trying to ‘save’ – yet they can’t see that, “Why should we need saving?”
:wall:
What kind of god are they serving that would demand worship or cast you into eternal torture, just for the crime of being born?!



"This book filled the darkness with ghouls and ghosts, and the bodies of men and women with devils. This book polluted the souls of men with the infamous dogma of eternal pain. This book made credulity the greatest of virtues, and investigation the greatest of crimes. This book filled nations with hermits, monks and nuns - with the pious and the useless. This book placed the ignorant and unclean saint above the philosopher and philanthropist. This book taught man to despise the joys of this life, that he might be happy in another - to waste this world for the sake of the next.
I attack this book because it is the enemy of human liberty - the greatest obstruction across the highway of human progress.
Let me ask the ministers one question: How can you be wicked enough to defend this book?"

- R. G. Ingersoll, from 'About the Holy Bible'.

I still find myself breathing heavily, if not in tears, after reading that quote, because it hits so close to my experience, and I’m sure that of many others.

I find George Carlin’s take a helpful relief though, and hilarious:
Religion is Bullsh*t (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA) :roll1:

Hebrews 9:22
“There can be no forgiveness without bloodshed.”
Hmmm, yeah, I disgree on that one.


I have one last take on christianity:

At one point I started to wonder, what if chrisitanity is all a test, but not the one presented by the bible?

If you were God, eternal, unchangeable, invincible, none could harm you even if they tried, and then deciding who would be your eternal companions in heaven… who would you respect more?

- Those who cower at your displays of aggression and bloodshed and kiss your feet and praise you for it?

- or those who see the brutality, the ego, the delusion and senselessness – and have the courage to stand against it, stand up to proclaim from their heart that there must be a better way.
To not surrender their sovereign soul to bully tactics.
To live true freedom, rather than become yet another humiliated servant of a god obsessed with blood and death...

Maybe those are the kind more worthy?
:sneaky2:


To anyone in a similar situation to mine I can recommend these sites:
Exchristian.net (http://exchristian.net/)
- Most of the Ex-C’s there are happily materialist atheist’s, defensively so (as christian trolls soon find out), but really very nice.
The ex-timonies there give good insight into what it’s like to be in christianity to those freer souls who’ve never grown up in it's insidious grasp.

I’m not a materialist atheist myself, but reading those arguments keeps me honest. :sweatdrop:

That’s why I am so impressed with this next site:
Rational Spirituality (http://www.ianlawton.com/rsindex.htm)
“Evidence not Faith”…
Not new-agey, but with the best big-picture evidence for things like reincarnation, etc.

Anyway,
enough for now.

Thanks for reading if you made it all the way through.

:yay::groupwave:

[Zeddo]

Hi there 100th Monkey

Brilliant post, I felt every word as I share so much of what you are saying. I will save a reply worthy of this post for later but want to share a song that I would normally have posted in "A musical Interlude"/ Sit back, relax and enjoy. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbZn_Z5s-yA

LL&P

Zeddo

[beren]

What kind of god are they serving that would demand worship or cast you into eternal torture, just for the crime of being born?!



"This book filled the darkness with ghouls and ghosts, and the bodies of men and women with devils. This book polluted the souls of men with the infamous dogma of eternal pain. This book made credulity the greatest of virtues, and investigation the greatest of crimes. This book filled nations with hermits, monks and nuns - with the pious and the useless. This book placed the ignorant and unclean saint above the philosopher and philanthropist. This book taught man to despise the joys of this life, that he might be happy in another - to waste this world for the sake of the next.
I attack this book because it is the enemy of human liberty - the greatest obstruction across the highway of human progress.
Let me ask the ministers one question: How can you be wicked enough to defend this book?"

- R. G. Ingersoll, from 'About the Holy Bible'.


Hello, I copied this I here ´s my responce.

I understand your post , I can sympathesize with you since I have been through all that you wrote, until I relized that words spoken by Jesus and also you can find them by Paul in Romans.

I will say them on my way, namely many, many people who think, claim and are proud of being Christians are as far of Christianity as light is far from darkness.

Actually the worship Satan and 99.9% are not aware of that.

Bible is the wrod of God and it is not a religion.
God did not made a religion, man did.

God does not need a religion, does not need any church or type or worshiping on this planet.

He as Creator of everything does not need anything. He is self sufficient. But he loves, and that iswhy he wishes his children to learn about him and to be as him.
It is a path. It is not a religion, again MAN turned that into religion.
Why?
Control of masses and their time, weatlh and souls.
The perfect way of doing that is religion,especially cloaked as being of God and his son Jesus Christ.

That way people will not suspect the real reason behind.

God warned us to that.

It is all over in his word, stories about that.
Jesus was also many times very controversial, why?
To shed off non thinking people of following him and using his help for their pleasure, selfish things such as following him to be fed and nurtured with nice stories(by their opinion). He kicked them off.

No one can cheat God. But people do try that. They thing by saying they are Christian they are one with God.
Wrong.
Jesus also said when he returns ,will hefind faith on earth, meaning people who are true.

It is not an easy thing being honest and genuine but it is the only ways towards knowing Creator and his wisdom and whatever he do.

Also Jews hated and killed Jesus because he actually enlighted their darkness of lies power freaks and utter controll. They claimed that they worshipped God , but they were actually Satan worshipers. They borrowed their ideas from Babylon and placed it in Talmud. That is what they did.

Also Constantine did the perfect thing for him but Chrisians who accepted what he proposed actually sold their souls to this world.

Utter control in the name of Jesus is the most powerful thing doen in this world so far to deceive people.

Jesus Christ and his own words are writen in the Bible. They are sheer and crystal clear.Why do people turn them around? They wish so because of their lack of honesty and fairness. They avoid the truth as it is so the sugar coat it for their own liking.

Sure you can do that but that will not change truth and you will be exposed a liar.
That is exactly the thing reliogion did and they still do.

They are utter corrupt.
Jesus said who has eye to see- let them see, who has ear to hear- let them hear.
No more no less.

Why should he or anyone else try their best to reylly explain people some things when they do not wish that, when they like lies?
Let them live their lie, that was their choice. But every choice has its repercissions.

Many will fall in the future when thy realize that instead they followed Christ , they followed a lie. When Christ comes he will judge. Not we , not religions not clergy, not people.
He will, and no one can fool him.

The one who started all this lie eons ago , will be destroyed.
I do not wish that for any human, I am sure you do not wish that too.

If you wish I will sen you on PM my reasoning on all your troubles since I had it exactly like you my friend.

Exactly.

But Christ showed me the way, out of this world´s reasoning. The true way.
And it is up to me will I be genuine, honest, good person, wise, truth lover, a man, or I will be the total oposite.

I wish to be a man an image of Creator in all of his splendor.

Love and blessings,

Beren

P.S.

Sorry for typping mishaps...:original:

[100thmonkey]

Thanks Zeddo, I did enjoy that clip.
I actually also saw it performed on Letterman recently.

Beren, I appreciate your intent and you're right in a way.
I know there are disputes between what Constantine intended and what Jesus may have intended.
The 'real' Jesus may well have been a wise man, but the closest we have to his original wisdom teachings is in the Gospel of Thomas, which was barred from the bible as it was 'too Gnostic'.
'Jesus' may well have been a gnostic himself then.
Who knows really?
Funnily enough another Thomas, - Jefferson, also created his own version of the gospel by literally cutting out with scissors all the supernatural elements from the four existing gospels.
Interestingly, what he was left with was surprisingly similar to the old Gospel of Thomas.

Yet, basically, if whatever 'true' christianity your proposing boils down to something that includes an eternal hell, or similar fate, I'm just not into it.

[beren]

Thanks Zeddo, I did enjoy that clip.
I actually also saw it performed on Letterman recently.

Beren, I appreciate your intent and you're right in a way.
I know there are disputes between what Constantine intended and what Jesus may have intended.
The 'real' Jesus may well have been a wise man, but the closest we have to his original wisdom teachings is in the Gospel of Thomas, which was barred from the bible as it was 'too Gnostic'.
'Jesus' may well have been a gnostic himself then.
Who knows really?

Yet, basically, if whatever 'true' christianity your proposing boils down to something that includes an eternal hell, or similar fate, I'm just not into it.


:original: I am not proposing hell, that ´s for sure!
If you read the context of hell when spoken in Bible you will not see Hell as it is today spoken. Hell is borrowed idea from pagan cults and mostly from Babylon pantheist religions.

When you cross reference Bible you will not find that God made hell or that he tortures people there. Hell does not exist.
It exist in fear based minds of many people.

When Bible said that someone goes to hell or gehenna or similar it simply means that that person stops existing.

It happened of many mistranslations deliberately placed there by Vatican in order to lead astray people from truth.

People ,often do not think, they are on autopilot in their life and hence they do not notice when slight change is there. That slight change eventually leads to bonds of slavery and fear which was not God´s intentions at all.

Jesus said know the truth and it will set you free.
Free from slavery.
That is why they killed him because people saw that what they were was in prison, invisible but terrible prison and they wanted out! Religious leaders freaked out of loosing controll of the grid and they killed him.

That was happening all the way and is happening today whenever a person wishes the real truth.

On the hell again;
Creator is the most powerful in the whole universe since he created it.
Why would he need to put somebody in a place where they will forever be tormented?
Why he would enjoy that, when he can simply erase the person without any pain?

Satan ,on the other hand IS enjoying that since he created hell idea and passed it on ignorants.

Also where is written in revelation that Satan will be put in hell and forever tormented is just a symbol that he will be utterly destroyed without a chance to live again, he who brought pain and death and deceit into universe. Example of his final defeat will be a banner for all to see and learn from it.

[THE eXchanger]

what a brilliant story,
thank you for sharing it

love/susan
the eXchanger

[100thmonkey]

what a brilliant story,
thank you for sharing it

love/susan
the eXchanger
Thanks susan.
We must have made a connection once before too. I've been away from the forum since the pay-subscription thing, but now I'm back I think you're the only one on my friend list who is still active. :mfr_lol:


Beren,
yes that sounds like the Mormon perspective I think...?
It's not something that would get me back in to christianity though. If there's no hell then there's no need to be saved, so no need for Jesus 'sacrifice'.
My KJV only brother has argued with Mormon's and found their arguments convincing, but has still stated to me that if he didn't believe in hell he'd simply commit suicide and get this struggle of life over with...
:emot-sad:

Yet to me, Annihiliation is still a degrading concept, and something that most people would find offensive (without mental conditioning).

It's part of the, "He is the potter, we are the clay", basis of christianity - which makes human souls, and human experience, no more valuable than dirt, and God no more than an ethnic-cleansing tyrant.

(Which is also based on the Egyptian creator god Khnum, who created men from the mud of the Nile and fashioned them on his potter's wheel before breathing the breath of life into them... sound familiar?)

Being an eternal soul, one who is as capable of saying 'I AM' as any other being in the universe, I value my experience higher than that - so have sought higher explanations for existence than mere holy hostage.


I've already found evidence for reincarnation (check my sig), which is now grounds for all manner of other research into our existence.

So for me the bible is really irrelevant, except as a 'version' of history/mythology, and modern research is constantly proving it wrong in that field too.


Basically I think we are all a part of God. :wub2:
She spun us off from herself, into the ignorance of flesh, in order to experience what her all-knowing mind couldn't.

Ignorance breeds suffering.

Suffering breeds questioning.

Questioning leads to answers.

Answers lead to awareness.

Awareness leads to returning to oneness with the Creator.
(Hey, we need a Yoda smiley here.)

So, we are spiritual yo-yo's who's purpose is simply to experience. Only flung down with the knowledge we will inevitably return - with great tales of wonder from our journey.

The one who spun us down would gain no benefit from cutting off our string before we came back. :cool:

[beren]

Thanks susan.
We must have made a connection once before too. I've been away from the forum since the pay-subscription thing, but now I'm back I think you're the only one on my friend list who is still active. :mfr_lol:


Beren,
yes that sounds like the Mormon perspective I think...?
It's not something that would get me back in to christianity though. If there's no hell then there's no need to be saved, so no need for Jesus 'sacrifice'.
My KJV only brother has argued with Mormon's and found their arguments convincing, but has still stated to me that if he didn't believe in hell he'd simply commit suicide and get this struggle of life over with...
:emot-sad:

Yet to me, Annihiliation is still a degrading concept, and something that most people would find offensive (without mental conditioning).

It's part of the, "He is the potter, we are the clay", basis of christianity - which makes human souls, and human experience, no more valuable than dirt, and God no more than an ethnic-cleansing tyrant.

(Which is also based on the Egyptian creator god Khnum, who created men from the mud of the Nile and fashioned them on his potter's wheel before breathing the breath of life into them... sound familiar?)

Being an eternal soul, one who is as capable of saying 'I AM' as any other being in the universe, I value my experience higher than that - so have sought higher explanations for existence than mere holy hostage.


I've already found evidence for reincarnation (check my sig), which is now grounds for all manner of other research into our existence.

So for me the bible is really irrelevant, except as a 'version' of history/mythology, and modern research is constantly proving it wrong in that field too.


Basically I think we are all a part of God. :wub2:
She spun us off from herself, into the ignorance of flesh, in order to experience what her all-knowing mind couldn't.

Ignorance breeds suffering.

Suffering breeds questioning.

Questioning leads to answers.

Answers lead to awareness.

Awareness leads to returning to oneness with the Creator.
(Hey, we need a Yoda smiley here.)

So, we are spiritual yo-yo's who's purpose is simply to experience. Only flung down with the knowledge we will inevitably return - with great tales of wonder from our journey.

The one who spun us down would gain no benefit from cutting off our string before we came back. :cool:


I am not familiar with Mormons. But anyways I respect your writing above.
I do not agree with you but everyone has a free will to live, explore and do things.
After all ,everything that we know today is just partial.

[Céline]

Your story was truly passionate and very enlightening...thank you for sharing with us.


my two cents...



Supposedly..Being the bearer of....original sin...

i find myself completely rejecting any written word about God..

Life...is NEVER a sin....Love is NEVER wrong....


All written word about God seems unbalanced to me...

[kriya]

The 'real' Jesus may well have been a wise man, but the closest we have to his original wisdom teachings is in the Gospel of Thomas, which was barred from the bible as it was 'too Gnostic'.
'Jesus' may well have been a gnostic himself then.


I believe this statement to be correct. If you want to find the original teachings of Jesus its in the Gospel of Thomas:

" Jesus said: Be passers by" and "Jesus said: Look to the One who lives while you are living. Once you are dead, you will seek to see Him without achieving this Vision".

I think Jesus meditated a great deal: The first statement means don't get involved in the dramas of life be even minded. The second refers to finding God in meditation because if you don't find him in life you won't find him in death either because your state of consciousness is not higher enough.

100th Monkey, I'm sorry you have had such a hard time with religion - religion is a false construct and a distortion of true spirituality, used to control the masses - Marx wasn't wrong when he said religion is the opiate of the people.

I have the opposite problem to you, my whole family are atheists and although I don't regard myself as religious I am deeply spiritual. I have learnt to get along with them because I have no choice and I love them. So I keep that part of me hidden from them, it's easier that way.

I think life is just one big comedy drama:original:

Love,

Kriya

[14 Chakras]

I'm with you Kriya,

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater as they say ~

Religion has been used to control the masses (realistically, the masses were not ready for Truth throughout the ages, because Truth involves accepting responsibility ~ and who wanted to do that?)

The teachings of Jesus, which are truly empowering teachings ~ You can do the works that I do only greater works than these you can do ~ I Am not the doer, for I let the Father within do the work ~ You too can count on the "Father"/ Consciousness within to provide for all your needs here and Now ~ Why worry? How much has this ever added to anyones life? ~ Kingdom of Heaven is INSIDE of you ~ Truth will set you free


Jesus message empowered the people to connect to the Divine within themselves rather than through a church, which is why the Jewish elite of the day riled up the people against him and had him put to death.

Once a man is no longer here, it is very easy to use their memory to represent a cause that they did not create nor support. Modern day Christianity preaches the outer path to salvation, dis-empowering the people rather than empowering them. Jesus is not the savior ~ Christ consciousness is the savior and it is within us not outside of us.

~ Let this mind BE in you that also was in Christ Jesus ~ Universal Christ mind ~ Christ consciousness

[no caste]

Supposedly..Being the bearer of....original sin...
i find myself completely rejecting any written word about God..
Life...is NEVER a sin....

Céline - EVE WAS FRAMED

That was the only thing I ever spray painted (graffiti!) in the day, with a friend from Montreal.

Damn, it felt good :naughty: :thumb_yello: It ran about 50 feet with 4 foot letters - 2 full cans.

[Gnosis5]

[COLOR="Red"]What kind of god are they serving that would demand worship or cast you into eternal torture, just for the crime of being born?!

[snipped]


This is not an off the top of my head response. After exposure to ETs and analytical and subjective approaches, my current "truth" is that the Old Testament Yahweh or Jehovah exhibits Reptilian philosophy of rulership.

The Jesus teachings that were not exorcised or changed in translation are from a different approach -- Messianic/Buddhic. If I recall my dates correctly, Buddhism was flourishing in the East and I see no reason for Jesus to not have been influenced by Buddha's humble and egalitarian approach.

However much I like and respect a being who is currently more evolved than I am, I always understand that there are no beings except the Unpotentiated Potential that we all are -- there are no beings that are not stuck in some traumatic incident.

I would be doing a disfavor to those more evolved beings if I did not respect that too, and any evolved being will be glad to tell you that he too is still ascending. It was wonderful that these beings told us that we too could ascend if we do the same work they did -- they gave us an idea and some tools that worked for them. No truly evolved being would prevent you from keeping your own counsel and upholding your own integrity.

I would say look to the tools they offer -- are they workable for you?

[mntruthseeker]

I too had a hard time adjusting to all of this religion as I was raised catholic myself. My family thinks I'm possessed but right now I really don't care. I care more about the way they will feel if and when they discover the truth behind the vatican. Way too many arguments that I care to elaborate on as I have moved on.

I hope that they will think of me to help them through all of this if I'm still available for them.

We are talking now which is a plus but it never around religion.

Actually it made us who we are today and for that I have to thank someone. We grew up with morals and that is the only thing I can say was good out of all of this.

Thank you for sharing and I hope you got relief by throwing all of it out here to share.

I dont call myself an Ex-Christian as I believe that Jesus, what ever his real name was, truly helped us in many ways.

All I did was throw out the religion and kept my faith.

[Gnosis5]

I'm with you Kriya,

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater as they say ~

Religion has been used to control the masses (realistically, the masses were not ready for Truth throughout the ages, because Truth involves accepting responsibility ~ and who wanted to do that?)

The teachings of Jesus, which are truly empowering teachings ~ You can do the works that I do only greater works than these you can do ~ I Am not the doer, for I let the Father within do the work ~ You too can count on the "Father"/ Consciousness within to provide for all your needs here and Now ~ Why worry? How much has this ever added to anyones life? ~ Kingdom of Heaven is INSIDE of you ~ Truth will set you free

Jesus message empowered the people to connect to the Divine within themselves rather than through a church, which is why the Jewish elite of the day riled up the people against him and had him put to death.

Once a man is no longer here, it is very easy to use their memory to represent a cause that they did not create nor support. Modern day Christianity preaches the outer path to salvation, dis-empowering the people rather than empowering them. Jesus is not the savior ~ Christ consciousness is the savior and it is within us not outside of us.

~ Let this mind BE in you that also was in Christ Jesus ~ Universal Christ mind ~ Christ consciousness

Do you see a fixed polarity at war with itself here? I'm starting to see it. One looks like the negative side of the pole and the other looks like the positive side of the pole, but a stuckness to either side is a see-saw ride.

The person who can bring more peace is the one who can within themselves unfix that polarity. There are tools to help one do that.

[100thmonkey]

Thanks to all those who have replied, especially those sharing their similar experiences.

I may not be able to reply as much over the coming holidays as I'll be at my parents house for Ex-mas, etc. although I may be able to use their computer...

[whiterose]

I too used to be a Christian. Without going into a lot of detail, lets say that I have been awakened, seeing that all religions are a construct of the Illuminati, as a method of control, and that the vast majority of people are fooled into thinking that what they are doing is pleasing to 'God' whoever that may be for that indvidual. :wall:

This was a very rude awakening for me, and for quite a while I floundered, feeling as if what I had seen as solid ground had been cut from under me. I'm still coming to terms with this and still floundering a bit, but I do believe that there is something, a Source, or Creator, but other than that I'm still trying to work everything else out. That's why I'm here on this forum! :original:

[THE eXchanger]

Céline - EVE WAS FRAMED

.

nope, she had ABLE with adam
and, Cain, with CAN (from venus)
WHY DO YOU THINK HE WAS NAMED CA-i-N
thus enter, the serpertine dna strand to earth
(that ironically, isn't always evil)
there is a lot to learn from the 9th density venusian masters of light
(there temples, still eXist)
except NOT to 3D eyes
(unable to see them) !!!
it is quite a story, to be told !!!

[New Age Messiah]

Céline - EVE WAS FRAMED

http://www.wicca-spirituality.com/goddess-symbols.html

The apple has long been associated with the worship of the Goddess.

Note the story of Eve and the Serpent (one of the eternal Goddess symbols). When Eve ate the apple, she was taking in Divine wisdom - the knowledge that she is Divine. Thus she would become immortal.

The apple seems to have always been associated with death and eternal life.

Walker writes,

"Graves [in Greek Myths, vol. 2] points out that the whole story of Eve, Adam, and the serpent in the tree was deliberately misinterpreted from icons showing the Great Goddess offering life to her worshipper, in the form of an apple, with the tree and its serpent [the sacred guardian] in the background." (Barbara Walker, The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, p 49.)

Naturally a jealous God - who wants to be the only god - would outlaw such knowledge of one's divinity! But since it is Truth, He couldn't keep it hidden forever. So when it came out, He decided to keep us so busy with survival and pain that we wouldn't have time to notice our divinity.

It worked pretty well!

Luckily the Goddess is more compassionate, and not threatened by others being empowered. She gave us plenty of hints along the way, to remember.

One of these is the apple. Cut in half, its seed bed - the most potent part of the fruit - reveals the sacred 5-pointed star within the circle of apple skin.

This is the pentacle - the expression of One Divinity as all facets of the world.

[Steven]

I too used to be a Christian. Without going into a lot of detail, lets say that I have been awakened, seeing that all religions are a construct of the Illuminati, as a method of control, and that the vast majority of people are fooled into thinking that what they are doing is pleasing to 'God' whoever that may be for that indvidual. :wall:

This was a very rude awakening for me, and for quite a while I floundered, feeling as if what I had seen as solid ground had been cut from under me. I'm still coming to terms with this and still floundering a bit, but I do believe that there is something, a Source, or Creator, but other than that I'm still trying to work everything else out. That's why I'm here on this forum! :original:

Hello Whiterose. I perfectly understand you. It makes me think about what my mother lived a couple years ago when I sat with her 'to talk'. She knew that what I was telling her was right, but it was a complete paradigm that was going down. Gladly, it did not last long. Since then, we are much more closer and enjoy long conversation.

Creator is indeed very present. Just the fact that we exist, the fact that there is a Creation, a Universe, is proof enough for me to know that there is a loving grand spirit who sustain it all in existance.

Namaste, Steven

[tintagelcave]

Hi ex-christian, I understand your initial experiences very well, of freeing yourself of the guilt and shame prison-system of the church. My father was a preacher and we, 9 children and my mother, sat on the front row in the church. I felt we had to be examples for the whole community and all eyes were upon us/me. I learned to be able to hold myself upright amidst of that!
With fast pounding heart and poise.
At the same time, I had to live with the realisation that my father was a completely different person "on stage" as a preacher, than the person he was at home. So, from a very young age I knew that people were not always what they showed on the outside. And at the same time I was like most children are, you tend to keep the peace, to not be cast out, so you play the game as it's expected of you. Isn't that a weird combination of survival and denial, with eyes closed?
Later on in life I learned to trust my intuition and to live without the "all seeing eyes of God". When my mother passed on, I noticed her uncertainty and fear of not going to heaven. That was a huge wake up call for me, because I had expected that she was confident in going to God.
So, in the last days of her life I felt like she was a child and I her mother, in a strange sort of way. It helped a lot to be able to place myself outside of her authority. It seems like becoming free of that shame and guilt pattern of the church, is going in steps throughout my life, working on still deeper levels of my soul. At the same time I learn to leave my brothers and sisters in their belief system/church. It's such a rooted part for them, very much in black and white: you are the devil when you talk about that part, luring them away from their safe haven. It's their fear, so you don't have to expose yourself to that, voluntarily. Loosing the church and your family is quite devastating, don't you think? Enjoy your freedom and take care!:welcomeani:

[Gevaudan]

Just wanted to share this link with everyone: http://www.thevesselofgod.com/thefirsteden.html

Once on this page, you can alter the link in the address bar to get to the main page of writings, or click here: http://www.thevesselofgod.com/home.html

Since you guys mentioned the pentagram within the apple and Cain, I thought this would be an interesting read for all of you.

Boyd Rice is the author of these papers. While I do not agree with everything he says, I do agree with a lot of it. Namely the 'gods' who are quoted as saying "look the man has become as one of us" being the remnants of an antediluvian race on this planet, emerging to play the bipolar god of the old testament. Hope you enjoy!

Peace

G

[Fredkc]

A simple caution:

In our haste, we often become "cargo cults" to what we reject. Play passed it.

I'll leave the rest to time.

Fred

[RedeZra]

I believe Hell is a bit of a scare tactic to induce people to behave

but it is not working


whether or not there is a Hell

I believe only the rotten will find out


what about Purgatory

the place of cleansing

before entering Heaven

well we will have to wait to find out


I believe the life we live on Earth will decide what we deserve

in Death and in Life again


for there is a Supervisor

from whom no secrets are untold

from whom nothing escapes


for whom every heart is home

[Unified Serenity]

http://www.wicca-spirituality.com/goddess-symbols.html

The apple has long been associated with the worship of the Goddess.

Note the story of Eve and the Serpent (one of the eternal Goddess symbols). When Eve ate the apple, she was taking in Divine wisdom - the knowledge that she is Divine. Thus she would become immortal.

The apple seems to have always been associated with death and eternal life.

Walker writes,

"Graves [in Greek Myths, vol. 2] points out that the whole story of Eve, Adam, and the serpent in the tree was deliberately misinterpreted from icons showing the Great Goddess offering life to her worshipper, in the form of an apple, with the tree and its serpent [the sacred guardian] in the background." (Barbara Walker, The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, p 49.)

Naturally a jealous God - who wants to be the only god - would outlaw such knowledge of one's divinity! But since it is Truth, He couldn't keep it hidden forever. So when it came out, He decided to keep us so busy with survival and pain that we wouldn't have time to notice our divinity.

It worked pretty well!

Luckily the Goddess is more compassionate, and not threatened by others being empowered. She gave us plenty of hints along the way, to remember.

One of these is the apple. Cut in half, its seed bed - the most potent part of the fruit - reveals the sacred 5-pointed star within the circle of apple skin.

This is the pentacle - the expression of One Divinity as all facets of the world.

No where in the bible does it say anything about Eve eating an apple. More than likely the fruit if it was 3d was a fig, after all they put on fig leaves, but that's just a guess.

I frankly believe Eve had sex with Lucifer and got pregnant with Cain who represents his father. Eve gave birth to twins of two different fathers. Abel who was Adam's son and Cain who was Lucifer's son. Jesus said as much when he accused the Kenites who got into the Pharisees who claimed to be of Judah (Jews) and were not. Jesus said they were of their father the devil. He said "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar." They were Kenites, they fulfill the negative side of prophecy (See Isaiah 53) and they are protected and all will be fulfilled. We have our choices and spiritual fruit to bear. We choose our paths ultimately and bear the responsibility of our choices. Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will understand my words.

[New Age Messiah]

No where in the bible does it say anything about Eve eating an apple. More than likely the fruit if it was 3d was a fig, after all they put on fig leaves, but that's just a guess.

I frankly believe Eve had sex with Lucifer and got pregnant with Cain who represents his father.

From Wikipedia:

"Similar trees appear in other religions. The same story with male, female, serpent and tree can be found - 22 centuries before the version of the story we know from the Bible - depicted on a mesopotamian cylinder seal, so the later versions are - more than probable - copies of the original."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_the_knowledge_of_good_and_evil

Spiritual truth does not require any book whatsoever. Certan authors give someone a great start to recognizing Spirit within their soul, but Spiritual truth is utterly totally non-cognitive, i.e. animals and small children know spiritual truth.

Knowing certain facts or names or doctrines or commands is worthless, spiritually.

I think studying ancient books is a complete waste of time, spiritually.

[Unified Serenity]

From Wikipedia:

"Similar trees appear in other religions. The same story with male, female, serpent and tree can be found - 22 centuries before the version of the story we know from the Bible - depicted on a mesopotamian cylinder seal, so the later versions are - more than probable - copies of the original."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_the_knowledge_of_good_and_evil

Spiritual truth does not require any book whatsoever. Certan authors give someone a great start to recognizing Spirit within their soul, but Spiritual truth is utterly totally non-cognitive, i.e. animals and small children know spiritual truth.

Knowing certain facts or names or doctrines or commands is worthless, spiritually.

I think studying ancient books is a complete waste of time, spiritually.

I respect your right to be ignorant of what ancient people learned, experienced, and believed. God has spoken through many voices throughout history and I rather enjoy digging up the nuggets of truth. Thanks for sharing.

US

[New Age Messiah]

I respect your right to be ignorant of what ancient people learned, experienced, and believed. God has spoken through many voices throughout history and I rather enjoy digging up the nuggets of truth. Thanks for sharing.US

That's COGNITIVE learning. Spiritual learning is something ENTIRELY different.

The narrow path, if you will, that FEW will find. And certainly MANY have found the RELIGIOUS path. :original:

[RedeZra]

Spiritual learning is something ENTIRELY different.



you know there are too

some rather bad elements in the spiritual worlds

but if you can spot the difference

between an angel and an apparent angel

then all power to you

[Unified Serenity]

That's COGNITIVE learning. Spiritual learning is something ENTIRELY different.

The narrow path, if you will, that FEW will find. And certainly MANY have found the RELIGIOUS path. :original:

You don't know anything about me, how I apply what I learn and experience. Too each their own.

US

[New Age Messiah]

You don't know anything about me, how I apply what I learn and experience. Too each their own.

US

Cognitive learning is words and thoughts.

Words and thoughts are in books and stories and the mind.

Spiritual learning is non-cognitive, no stories, no thoughts, no emotions.

It's nothing personal.

[carriblu]

Cognitive learning is words and thoughts.

Words and thoughts are in books and stories and the mind.

Spiritual learning is non-cognitive, no stories, no thoughts, no emotions.

It's nothing personal.

I agree with this. i am so interested in the teachings of buddha and christ and others and really take them to heart, but nothing they say will ever teach me anything. what i take away from great people like that is reinforcement that there is a bigger picture here, that other people have gone after spiritual greatness and succeeded, and a feeling that i'm not alone on the journey.

[Gnosis5]

Cognitive learning is words and thoughts.

Words and thoughts are in books and stories and the mind.

Spiritual learning is non-cognitive, no stories, no thoughts, no emotions.

It's nothing personal.


Thanks for putting that into words. In my clearing sessions I see imagery and sometimes a word or phrase will come as an answer to my practitioner's question. The imagery is not necessarily what is really there, merely how I am seeing it. Sometimes I see only a metaphor. I have to put my normal intellect somewhat at bay if I wish to get the full benefit of clearing.

It is a different world, but nonetheless just as valid a world as the world of intellect. Zen practices help one "kill" the compulsion to use the mind for EVERYTHING.

Gnosis

[New Age Messiah]

It is a different world, but nonetheless just as valid a world as the world of intellect. Zen practices help one "kill" the compulsion to use the mind for EVERYTHING.
Gnosis

To purify the soul you have to "be" a lot of energies that your mind could never process as thoughts or reasoning or words.

That's the point of spirituality is to purify past negative energies and be the immaculate presence that an innocent child also is...

You learn that your mind does not sit on top of you and own you or contain you.

The mind essentially has to get below, underneath, out of the way, it's like soul scuba diving.

Ego is like a periscope on a submarine...

[Gnosis5]

To purify the soul you have to "be" a lot of energies that your mind could never process as thoughts or reasoning or words.

That's the point of spirituality is to purify past negative energies and be the immaculate presence that an innocent child also is...

You learn that your mind does not sit on top of you and own you or contain you.

The mind essentially has to get below, underneath, out of the way, it's like soul scuba diving.

Ego is like a periscope on a submarine...


Interesting. My radionics reading shows that "Topography of Consciousness" is a highly charged chain of incidents in my case. I plan to clear off the negative charge and fixed polarities after I finish running the chain of "Key-In Mechanism" negative incidents. I hope that is understandable the way I worded it.

Gnosis

[RedeZra]

no need for a map

when the treasure is found


teachings

are just that

pointings

like the moon in the well

not really there


we will have to look up and walk the walk


learning is a process

an unfolding of understanding

a life in bloom


treat truths as trash

til one cannot part with it

and must live it

[RedeZra]

My radionics reading shows that "Topography of Consciousness" is a highly charged chain of incidents in my case. I plan to clear off the negative charge and fixed polarities after I finish running the chain of "Key-In Mechanism" negative incidents. I hope that is understandable the way I worded it.


perfectly

[New Age Messiah]

Interesting. My radionics reading shows that "Topography of Consciousness" is a highly charged chain of incidents in my case. I plan to clear off the negative charge and fixed polarities after I finish running the chain of "Key-In Mechanism" negative incidents. I hope that is understandable the way I worded it.Gnosis

Yeah, fixed polarities, yep. Been there.

Here's the thing, all the great dramas and mythical battles are right in every person's soul, to be had and enjoyed.

The richness of the infinite mystery... is in every soul

[Gnosis5]

perfectly

Acknowledged. It is always a surprise to me when someone actually groks what I am experiencing :original:

[Humble Janitor]

In my opinion, no book can ever hope to replace decades of oral traditions passed on from person to person, lessons that have more than just a shred of truth (when compared against the "Bible").

[100thmonkey]

I have the opposite problem to you, my whole family are atheists and although I don't regard myself as religious I am deeply spiritual. I have learnt to get along with them because I have no choice and I love them. So I keep that part of me hidden from them, it's easier that way.

I think life is just one big comedy drama:original:

Love,

Kriya
I too used to be a Christian. Without going into a lot of detail, lets say that I have been awakened, seeing that all religions are a construct of the Illuminati, as a method of control, and that the vast majority of people are fooled into thinking that what they are doing is pleasing to 'God' whoever that may be for that indvidual. :wall:

This was a very rude awakening for me, and for quite a while I floundered, feeling as if what I had seen as solid ground had been cut from under me. I'm still coming to terms with this and still floundering a bit, but I do believe that there is something, a Source, or Creator, but other than that I'm still trying to work everything else out. That's why I'm here on this forum! :original: To Kriya and whiterose, I understand both of these points very well. The exchristian site I linked to is very atheist oriented. I couldn't put my testimony up there because of all the interrogation I would receive for still believing in conspiracies and spirituality, etc. I'd love it if they understood about the Illuminati/NWO also, but I still enjoy the site...
I'm just happy to also be back at Avalon where I can share more openly.
:original:


...I frankly believe Eve had sex with Lucifer and got pregnant with Cain who represents his father. Eve gave birth to twins of two different fathers. Abel who was Adam's son and Cain who was Lucifer's son. There's a couple of problems with that, seeing as the Adam is really a version of the older Egyptian God, Atum, who also names all creatures, and who's enemy was the serpent, etc. Atum's story is fascinating in that regard.

And also, 'Lucifer' doesn't exist as the character presented in the bible. :sad:
You may have heard how the name mentioned in Isaiah was really a mistranslation, and was actually referring to the Babylonian king of the time. I won't go into the detail of how it should have been translated as Day Star, etc. except to give this link (http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2005/11nov/lucifer.html)which pretty much covers it, if anyone is interested or hasn't yet heard...

...Jesus said as much when he accused the Kenites who got into the Pharisees who claimed to be of Judah (Jews) and were not. Jesus said they were of their father the devil. He said "That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar." They were Kenites, they fulfill the negative side of prophecy (See Isaiah 53) and they are protected and all will be fulfilled. We have our choices and spiritual fruit to bear. We choose our paths ultimately and bear the responsibility of our choices. Those with eyes to see and ears to hear will understand my words.This is actually where Jesus made a mistake.:mfr_omg:

He actually gets confused between two different guys named Zechariah.
It might not seem like a big deal to most, but to a bible inerrantist, like my old self, it's pretty significant.
Let me explain:

In Matthew 23:35 Jesus mentions Zecharias son of Barachias as the one being slaughtered between the temple. However he is confusing the slaughter of Zechariah son of Jehoida in 2 Chronicles 24:20-22, with the author of the Old Testament book of Zechariah (Zechariah 1:1) who was the actual son of Berachiah.

Also, as my jewish friends can explain, the 'Suffering Servant' of Isaiah 53 is actually the nation of Israel itself, not a literal person, ie. no jews have ever taken that passage as a prophecy of their messiah and thus waiting for it to be fulfilled...

Thankyou to all others who have als added to this thread, I've enjoyed your posts and will follow up on those links posted when I have more time. (I'm on my parents c'puter at the moment, for holidays... Happy Solsitice everybody).

[zaina]

I too am an ex christian ,but since leaving I have been able to understand jesus teaching alot better ...
he taught the universal laws in a way easy to understand even for the least learnard person .The bible I really dont know what part is right or wrong its a mistery and to many theories to find the truth ...
The God i know in side. is like a father who guides his child from danger ,
he wants the best ,never asking for anything in return ,even if you ignore him he still loves you .and as you grow he sits back and watches you ..
jesus is my brother who walks with me each day ,when i fall he he picks me up ,and when things get to heavy he carrys them for me ..
he also watches and waits as brother do he guides us to seek him saying
dont forget me he says i am here for you .
if you witness my presents i will witness you .for I am your brother who dwells in side you .
peace ,love and light ....

[yellowcosmicseed]

I did go through a fanatical christian phase before I woke up to the 'truth'. My spiritual journey began when I was reading a book on metaphysics. When I understood and knew that reality was not what it seemed, I experienced a spiritual awakening in which I felt great pain and release in my chest and up to my neck. I have never fully understood that experience, but ever since then I have felt the light and love vibration in my 3rd and 4th chakras. It my be somehow connected to many lives of being a lost soul and of horrid child abuse and neglect in a very recent life I had (at the hands of my father, but it turns out that my father went through the same circumstances of abuse. Probably even worse). I am still greatly sufferring, but I am trying to get through it the best I can.

What I found out about Christianity was that one cannot dpend on anything outside of itself to save them, the person/entity can only save itself. Also Islam also holds the same belief in Hell (and a type of buddhism or taoism, i do not recall exactly) so then how can one know which one is the truth? I also discovered, as you had, that Constantine made Christianity the official religion of the empire and that the old god/goddess staues were made into saint states etc. etc. Christianity is merely the collection of many many old pagan traditions etc. etc. I could rant forever on this...

Well Christianity was what I came to believe in due to what I thought, and many others, that I had to save myself from Hell. I discovered that there are certainly other religions like this on many other planets and that they are totally irrelevant to the truth of the greater reality. Do you think that aliens give a heck over what our religions have to say? NO

Thank you for your account and love to you.

[14 Chakras]

"Don't throw out the Christ baby with the bathwater" is what I say.

Sure religions are used to control people, however there is an option beyond either accepting the religious beliefs about Jesus being born of virgin, being the only son of god, and a blood sacrifice for an angry god in the sky, there is an alternative indeed, I would call it Truth.

Who put Jesus to death in the story? The scribes and the Pharisees that's who. The religious elite of the day. They preached that God was outside of you, that the messiah would come and reward them and vanquish all those who did not go to the right church and practice in the ways they said you should practice. The exact same way fundamentalist preach today.

Yet Jesus message was simple, when you learn to connect with the messiah within you, the Father within, you can do the works that I can do only greater works that these you can do. He taught us to pray to "OUR" Father, meaning, we share the same Father, the consciousness of Being within us.

I strongly suggest that Jesus mission is about to be fulfilled, and it will be fulfilled because a critical mass, a Christ Mass of people will choose to follow in Jesus footsteps and Gautama Buddha footsteps, and BE reborn into the reality of who they are in Oneness with their own "Father / I AM" within ~~~

I guess the proof is in the pudding ~ I suggest connecting to our heart center and remaining open to the possibilities because there is always MORE.

[100thmonkey]

It's encouraging to meet others who have left christianity but not gone totally materialist. It often seems like society is divided between extremists of either religion or materialist secularism, but coming to Avalon is showing me alot of the spiritual spectrum inbetween.
"Don't throw out the Christ baby with the bathwater" is what I say...etc.Yes, that's the kind of christianity I can still relate to. Understanding the 'christ' within ourselves.
Through New Dawn magazine I came across Richard Smoley, the author of the book 'Inner Christianity'. His articles take a more gnostic approach, and the metaphorical / metaphysical approach to the basic teachings of Jesus seems the best way to take it.

Personally I'd prefer a different word than 'christ', but I don't reject the concept of the 'saviour/kingdom of heaven' within, or the idea that life's struggles are the crucifying of each of our own ego's, etc.
To me that's true spirituality yet it's personal, individual and unique to each seeker.

[zaina]

What kind of god are they serving that would demand worship or cast you into eternal torture, just for the crime of being born?!



"This book filled the darkness with ghouls and ghosts, and the bodies of men and women with devils. This book polluted the souls of men with the infamous dogma of eternal pain. This book made credulity the greatest of virtues, and investigation the greatest of crimes. This book filled nations with hermits, monks and nuns - with the pious and the useless. This book placed the ignorant and unclean saint above the philosopher and philanthropist. This book taught man to despise the joys of this life, that he might be happy in another - to waste this world for the sake of the next.
I attack this book because it is the enemy of human liberty - the greatest obstruction across the highway of human progress.
Let me ask the ministers one question: How can you be wicked enough to defend this book?"

- R. G. Ingersoll, from 'About the Holy Bible'.


Hello, I copied this I here ´s my responce.

I understand your post , I can sympathesize with you since I have been through all that you wrote, until I relized that words spoken by Jesus and also you can find them by Paul in Romans.

I will say them on my way, namely many, many people who think, claim and are proud of being Christians are as far of Christianity as light is far from darkness.

Actually the worship Satan and 99.9% are not aware of that.

Bible is the wrod of God and it is not a religion.
God did not made a religion, man did.

God does not need a religion, does not need any church or type or worshiping on this planet.

He as Creator of everything does not need anything. He is self sufficient. But he loves, and that iswhy he wishes his children to learn about him and to be as him.
It is a path. It is not a religion, again MAN turned that into religion.
Why?
Control of masses and their time, weatlh and souls.
The perfect way of doing that is religion,especially cloaked as being of God and his son Jesus Christ.

That way people will not suspect the real reason behind.

God warned us to that.

It is all over in his word, stories about that.
Jesus was also many times very controversial, why?
To shed off non thinking people of following him and using his help for their pleasure, selfish things such as following him to be fed and nurtured with nice stories(by their opinion). He kicked them off.

No one can cheat God. But people do try that. They thing by saying they are Christian they are one with God.
Wrong.
Jesus also said when he returns ,will hefind faith on earth, meaning people who are true.

It is not an easy thing being honest and genuine but it is the only ways towards knowing Creator and his wisdom and whatever he do.

Also Jews hated and killed Jesus because he actually enlighted their darkness of lies power freaks and utter controll. They claimed that they worshipped God , but they were actually Satan worshipers. They borrowed their ideas from Babylon and placed it in Talmud. That is what they did.

Also Constantine did the perfect thing for him but Chrisians who accepted what he proposed actually sold their souls to this world.

Utter control in the name of Jesus is the most powerful thing doen in this world so far to deceive people.

Jesus Christ and his own words are writen in the Bible. They are sheer and crystal clear.Why do people turn them around? They wish so because of their lack of honesty and fairness. They avoid the truth as it is so the sugar coat it for their own liking.

Sure you can do that but that will not change truth and you will be exposed a liar.
That is exactly the thing reliogion did and they still do.

They are utter corrupt.
Jesus said who has eye to see- let them see, who has ear to hear- let them hear.
No more no less.

Why should he or anyone else try their best to reylly explain people some things when they do not wish that, when they like lies?
Let them live their lie, that was their choice. But every choice has its repercissions.

Many will fall in the future when thy realize that instead they followed Christ , they followed a lie. When Christ comes he will judge. Not we , not religions not clergy, not people.
He will, and no one can fool him.

The one who started all this lie eons ago , will be destroyed.
I do not wish that for any human, I am sure you do not wish that too.

If you wish I will sen you on PM my reasoning on all your troubles since I had it exactly like you my friend.

Exactly.

But Christ showed me the way, out of this world´s reasoning. The true way.
And it is up to me will I be genuine, honest, good person, wise, truth lover, a man, or I will be the total oposite.

I wish to be a man an image of Creator in all of his splendor.

Love and blessings,

Beren

P.S.

Sorry for typping mishaps...:original:

"Don't throw out the Christ baby with the bathwater" is what I say.

Sure religions are used to control people, however there is an option beyond either accepting the religious beliefs about Jesus being born of virgin, being the only son of god, and a blood sacrifice for an angry god in the sky, there is an alternative indeed, I would call it Truth.

Who put Jesus to death in the story? The scribes and the Pharisees that's who. The religious elite of the day. They preached that God was outside of you, that the messiah would come and reward them and vanquish all those who did not go to the right church and practice in the ways they said you should practice. The exact same way fundamentalist preach today.

Yet Jesus message was simple, when you learn to connect with the messiah within you, the Father within, you can do the works that I can do only greater works that these you can do. He taught us to pray to "OUR" Father, meaning, we share the same Father, the consciousness of Being within us.

I strongly suggest that Jesus mission is about to be fulfilled, and it will be fulfilled because a critical mass, a Christ Mass of people will choose to follow in Jesus footsteps and Gautama Buddha footsteps, and BE reborn into the reality of who they are in Oneness with their own "Father / I AM" within ~~~

I guess the proof is in the pudding ~ I suggest connecting to our heart center and remaining open to the possibilities because there is always MORE.

what you said was wondeful .thank you ..love and peace

[rfebres]

Oh how I hate labels… :wall:

WE ARE ALL “ET’s”


Premise: Our physical body is obvious that originated on this planet “the human”, and that can be questionable as well, but what about our spirit, our conscious? That is the reality: We are all One, and this One has no boundaries. We are all part of the of the eternal, so in essence we are all ET’s


Do I believe that Jesus was the Son of the almighty GOD with a big “g”? YES, we all are.

Do I believe that Jesus was a GOD? Yes. we all are in essence

Do I believe that Jesus was an ET? Yes, see above


What do I expect from ET’s?

One already came once and changed the world for ever. Showed us the way for true freedom and what did we do? Put in on a cross!

What else can I ask from ET’s?

Am I a "Christian"? YES, in essence we all are. (detached from any religion). If we are all pursuing LOVE.

The question that I think is most relevant is: WHO are these other ET’s that have been peeking around our planet for thousands of years, if not from the beginning of the creation of humanity in the physical form. We must be MOST aware that there is a universal law called: FREE WILL

How are these other ET’s exercising this law of free will in relation to us humans and in this planet of ours and that for some reason we can’t seem to remember who we are?

Love and Peace in learning


Roland

[zaina]

Can some one tell me why jesus called himself Son of man ..this I am un sure of ..

[rfebres]

Can some one tell me why jesus called himself Son of man ..this I am un sure of ..

He was born human and human = man?, but man as in all humans in the spirit are all sons/daughters of the One, the Eternal, We are all One.

This is my interpretation, but I might be wrong. :original:

I hope that made sense


Roland

[zaina]

He was born human and human = man?, but man as in all humans in the spirit are all sons/daughters of the One, the Eternal, We are all One.

This is my interpretation, but I might be wrong. :original:

I hope that made sense


Roland

yES thank you it does make sense I asked this on another forum and the reply was it means hu-man [simular] ,jesus did say do ye not know ye are God s in the making i believe ..thank you ....

[rfebres]

yES thank you it does make sense I asked this on another forum and the reply was it means hu-man [simular] ,jesus did say do ye not know ye are God s in the making i believe ..thank you ....

He also said: "If you love thy brother, you love me"

not sure if those where the exact words.


Roland

[zaina]

He also said: "If you love thy brother, you love me"

not sure if those where the exact words.


Roland

I am so pleased i have got to wherr i am with this subject love thy brother ,
I still have a way to go ,and get a tightening in my stomach when i see people hurt each other with words ect .
I Studys islam for a while to see what it was all about and why so many revert ,again the essence is there but the love i didnt find ,like the words jesus spoke ..i am hoping the parabled get opened to me so i understand better but i am definetly growing in love for all ..

[14 Chakras]

Can some one tell me why jesus called himself Son of man ..this I am un sure of ..

I believe because he knew that there was a great danger that his name would be used to create another golden calf to worship, another "perfect God man" that the people could not follow only worship.

I believe Jesus greatest frustration during his mission was that no matter how simply and beautifully he explained reality, enlightenment, the people were not really ready at the time to understand it, including his apostles. He saw the suffering in the world, from his enlightened standpoint he saw clearly that the people we creating their own suffering by creating unconsciously from their own limited beliefs.

He tried to help people see through the matrix, see that if they just surrendered to the 'still small voice within' and truly knew who they were, they could move mountains, they could multiply the loaves, they could have abundance manifest for all life.

So I believe he called himself 'Son of man' to make it very clear to that generation, and to future generations, that he was indeed a human like you are, that he just remembered who he was as a spiritual Being, like you too can and ideally will remember who you are as a spiritual Being, as One with the Father consciousness within you, while still in embodiment.

Jesus was not son of Et's, was not created from "Jehovah's sperm" etc. Jesus was son of Joseph and Mary, but he remembered, that spiritually, he was Son of God, Son of the I AM and an individualization of his own I AM, of the Father within.

Jesus was Son of man who remembered he was Son of God, because he remembered that we are ALL Sons and Daughters of God.

And they crucified him because the prison guards had no desire for the people to awaken to their inner divinity, to who they really are, for if they did, the prison would no longer hold the prisoners and the prison wardens (PTB) would be out of a job and a energy source...

[zaina]

I believe because he knew that there was a great danger that his name would be used to create another golden calf to worship, another "perfect God man" that the people could not follow only worship.

I believe Jesus greatest frustration during his mission was that no matter how simply and beautifully he explained reality, enlightenment, the people were not really ready at the time to understand it, including his apostles. He saw the suffering in the world, from his enlightened standpoint he saw clearly that the people we creating their own suffering by creating unconsciously from their own limited beliefs.

He tried to help people see through the matrix, see that if they just surrendered to the 'still small voice within' and truly knew who they were, they could move mountains, they could multiply the loaves, they could have abundance manifest for all life.

So I believe he called himself 'Son of man' to make it very clear to that generation, and to future generations, that he was indeed a human like you are, that he just remembered who he was as a spiritual Being, like you too can and ideally will remember who you are as a spiritual Being, as One with the Father consciousness within you, while still in embodiment.

Jesus was not son of Et's, was not created from "Jehovah's sperm" etc. Jesus was son of Joseph and Mary, but he remembered, that spiritually, he was Son of God, Son of the I AM and an individualization of his own I AM, of the Father within.

Jesus was Son of man who remembered he was Son of God, because he remembered that we are ALL Sons and Daughters of God.

And they crucified him because the prison guards had no desire for the people to awaken to their inner divinity, to who they really are, for if they did, the prison would no longer hold the prisoners and the prison wardens (PTB) would be out of a job and a energy source...

yes ,very good explanation ,thank you

[100thmonkey]

I believe because he knew that there was a great danger that his name would be used to create another golden calf to worship, another "perfect God man" that the people could not follow only worship.

I believe Jesus greatest frustration during his mission was that no matter how simply and beautifully he explained reality, enlightenment, the people were not really ready at the time to understand it, including his apostles. He saw the suffering in the world, from his enlightened standpoint he saw clearly that the people we creating their own suffering by creating unconsciously from their own limited beliefs.

He tried to help people see through the matrix, see that if they just surrendered to the 'still small voice within' and truly knew who they were, they could move mountains, they could multiply the loaves, they could have abundance manifest for all life.

So I believe he called himself 'Son of man' to make it very clear to that generation, and to future generations, that he was indeed a human like you are, that he just remembered who he was as a spiritual Being, like you too can and ideally will remember who you are as a spiritual Being, as One with the Father consciousness within you, while still in embodiment.

Jesus was not son of Et's, was not created from "Jehovah's sperm" etc. Jesus was son of Joseph and Mary, but he remembered, that spiritually, he was Son of God, Son of the I AM and an individualization of his own I AM, of the Father within.

Jesus was Son of man who remembered he was Son of God, because he remembered that we are ALL Sons and Daughters of God...Assuming Jesus even existed. :wink2:
I think most likely his wisdom teaching was an amalgam of several teachers of the time, or that he's even an avatar for some group/sect, but I definitely agree with you on the message...

(Personally) I just feel it going against the grain to hear Jesus name put up all the time as if there's something worth salvaging from the bible that isn't already more crystal clear (untainted) in other places, ie. I don't really mind throwing Jesus out with the bible bathwater, because everything worth keeping in it was already said better beforehand (or even later).

Yet Jesus, or any other teacher/guru isn't necessary for people to come to the realisation of their own I AM, or all of our One-ness, eventually.

'Life' is our greatest teacher - that's the Creator's original 'Gospel', and it's freely avalable to all, by default.

And they crucified him because the prison guards had no desire for the people to awaken to their inner divinity, to who they really are, for if they did, the prison would no longer hold the prisoners and the prison wardens (PTB) would be out of a job and a energy source.Yes ...and of course there's also the other thing about the cruci-fiction being the 3 day death and resurrection of the sun (http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/astrotheology/astromain5a.html)at the winter solstice (today!) on the zodiacal cross...

...which also leads into a bit about the multiplying of loaves you mentioned. The story of the loaves and fishes is signifying the opposition of Virgo and Pisces.
Virgo with the wheat in her hand, for bread, opposite Pisces the two fishes.
Of course the earliest christian symbol was the fish, not the cross, as we entered the age of Pisces, and Jesus, the 'bread of life', was 'born of a virgin'.

Okay, I guess the 'bible' is interesting in that way...:lmfao:

[zaina]

[QUOTE=100thmonkey;205665]Assuming Jesus even existed. :wink2:
I think most likely his wisdom teaching was an amalgam of several teachers of the time, or that he's even an avatar for some group/sect, but I definitely agree with you on the message...

(Personally) I just feel it going against the grain to hear Jesus name put up all the time as if there's something worth salvaging from the bible that isn't already more crystal clear (untainted) in other places, ie. I don't really mind throwing Jesus out with the bible bathwater, because everything worth keeping in it was already said better beforehand (or even later).

Yet Jesus, or any other teacher/guru isn't necessary for people to come to the realisation of their own I AM, or all of our One-ness, eventually.

'Life' is our greatest teacher - that's the Creator's original 'Gospel', and it's freely avalable to all, by default.

Yes ...and of course there's also the other thing about the cruci-fiction being the 3 day death and resurrection of the sun (http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/astrotheology/astromain5a.html)at the winter solstice (today!) on the zodiacal cross...

...which also leads into a bit about the multiplying of loaves you mentioned. The story of the loaves and fishes is signifying the opposition of Virgo and Pisces.
Virgo with the wheat in her hand, for bread, opposite Pisces the two fishes.
Of course the earliest christian symbol was the fish, not the cross, as we entered the age of Pisces, and Jesus, the 'bread of life', was 'born of a virgin'.

Okay, I guess the 'bible' is interesting in that way...:lmfao:[/QUOT

what your thoughts on bible codes

[New Age Messiah]

Jesus was not son of Et's, was not created from "Jehovah's sperm" etc. Jesus was son of Joseph and Mary, but he remembered, that spiritually, he was Son of God, Son of the I AM and an individualization of his own I AM, of the Father within.

Jesus was Son of man who remembered he was Son of God, because he remembered that we are ALL Sons and Daughters of God.

Yeah, they made the part up about him being born of a virgin, but told the truth about everything else!!!! Yeah, really good understanding, shows great depth of insight. :roll1:

[zaina]

I too used to be a Christian. Without going into a lot of detail, lets say that I have been awakened, seeing that all religions are a construct of the Illuminati, as a method of control, and that the vast majority of people are fooled into thinking that what they are doing is pleasing to 'God' whoever that may be for that indvidual. :wall:

This was a very rude awakening for me, and for quite a while I floundered, feeling as if what I had seen as solid ground had been cut from under me. I'm still coming to terms with this and still floundering a bit, but I do believe that there is something, a Source, or Creator, but other than that I'm still trying to work everything else out. That's why I'm here on this forum! :original:
I had this 2 years ago ,pm me i will tell you what happened if you like ..
it was very difficult at the time ,long story if it helps

[beren]

Yes ...and of course there's also the other thing about the cruci-fiction being the 3 day death and resurrection of the sun (http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/astrotheology/astromain5a.html)at the winter solstice (today!) on the zodiacal cross...

...which also leads into a bit about the multiplying of loaves you mentioned. The story of the loaves and fishes is signifying the opposition of Virgo and Pisces.
Virgo with the wheat in her hand, for bread, opposite Pisces the two fishes.
Of course the earliest christian symbol was the fish, not the cross, as we entered the age of Pisces, and Jesus, the 'bread of life', was 'born of a virgin'.

Okay, I guess the 'bible' is interesting in that way...:lmfao: __________________
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle





I think your response here shows you`re being deeply confused soul.

[beren]

Yeah, they made the part up about him being born of a virgin, but told the truth about everything else!!!! Yeah, really good understanding, shows great depth of insight. :roll1:


Well I haven`t seen depth of your insight in your threads...When ever you tried to explain something ,you lost yourself in words . You think that you have seen all just because some being told you that she is cooking?!? ?!?
And you bought that???


I do not understand you at all , you do try to mock ones who are different
from you.

Why is that?

I also think you`re deeply confused soul.
It doesn`t mean you`re bad fellow,just confused.

[New Age Messiah]

I do not understand you at all , you do try to mock ones who are different from you.

I am mocking the reasoning. If someone is a liar, they're a liar. If they lied about the virgin birth, they're liars about everything. It's just common sense.

I also think you`re deeply confused soul.
It doesn`t mean you`re bad fellow,just confused.

I am the New Age Messiah. :original:

A spiritual action hero, chosen, ready to reveal the true Goddess Spirit and end religion forever, and bring in a glorious New Age of light!!!:trumpet:

[kriya]

If they lied about the virgin birth, they're liars about everything.



The virgin birth is truth. Take it or leave, love. I have a reliable source:original:

Love,

Kriya

[whiterose]

I had this 2 years ago ,pm me i will tell you what happened if you like ..
it was very difficult at the time ,long story if it helps

I would love to PM you and hear your story zaina, but at the moment I don't have the privelege of PM's :sad:

[hollylindin]

Thank you, 100th Monkey, for sharing all this with us! I can't personally relate to this (as my family was never into the Bible, church, or religion - seeing them only as ways to control the masses.), but I can relate in what my partner has gone through growing up in, and with, the Jehovah's Witness religion.

Growing up into something like that must be SO hard, especially when you're young and are "indoctrined", so to speak, into what your parents (or one parent, in his case.) believe. The Jehovah's Witness religion, specifically, is obviously a cult (I believe all mainstream religions are.), as it flat-out tells a follower (the "flock", they're called in the Elders' handbook!) that they are NOT TO SPEAK to those who have been ex-communicated or don't believe in Jehovah. He sometimes goes MONTHS without speaking to his mother because she's not "allowed" - and they live five minutes away from us!

Religion, as I'm sure a few people said above, was created just to control the masses and instill fear in the populace - and to rip families and units apart! (It's the school of thought that, if you can separate someone from their unit, you can pick 'em off easier, you know?) The one TRUE religion is the relationship one has with their inner self - the opening up and blossoming of who we all really are. Once we all learn (as you have, as has my partner, and as have SO MANY PEOPLE!) to look INSIDE and not rely on others' indoctrinations, THAT'S when we'll truly be free! :D

As a slight aside, the word "religion" itself may come from the Latin "religore", which means "to tie fast". (http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_defn.htm)

Thank you for finding the Light, my friend, and don't be afraid to let it shine brightly, for all to see!

<3

[beren]

I am mocking the reasoning. If someone is a liar, they're a liar. If they lied about the virgin birth, they're liars about everything. It's just common sense.



I am the New Age Messiah. :original:

A spiritual action hero, chosen, ready to reveal the true Goddess Spirit and end religion forever, and bring in a glorious New Age of light!!!:trumpet:

:thumb_yello:

[14 Chakras]

Are any of us walking on water, multiplying loaves?

Not yet right.

Well the reality is that all of us have some truth and some untruth.

Some of the things each one of us believes to be true are not true. We're wrong about some of the things we believe.

Each person that we read their posts etc. also most likely has some understanding about something in this world that is more true than our current understanding of that thing.

Each one of us has pieces of the puzzle of truth and the puzzle of untruth.

So the key I believe is a) not to be attached to all of our pieces, some of them are false! b) Always be willing to come up higher. c) don't judge others beliefs, because while they are certainly wrong on some things, so are we. d) seek more than anything to be a Living example of what we believe more than a pusher of our mental beliefs.

For me, I have no doubt personally that Jesus Christ is an Ascended Master, and a part of the team that is working behind the scenes to raise up planet Earth.

I have no doubt that Jesus was born of Joseph and Mary and that Mary was PURE (which was later mistranslated to mean "virgin" because of the masochistic society we live in ~ if a woman is Pure then she's a virgin right? B.S. macho man).

I have no doubt that the churches have turned Jesus message, (which I suggest was the SAME kind of message as Gautama Buddha and many other mystics in our written histories, just told to a different culture at a different time), into worshiping the golden calf.

However, I know that virtually no one here will agree with all of my beliefs, and I also know that I don't have the full truth and that each person here has an understanding about at least one thing that I don't have... we each have pieces of the puzzle...

So I suggest we strive more than anything to BE Living examples of unconditional Love and understanding above all.

To me that indeed means challenging illusions when we see them, because that gives us all choice to come up higher, but it also means never labeling people as below us or good or bad based on their beliefs. Attacking people is truly attacking ourselves and contradicts most spiritual teachings we may be trying to follow.

We are all One, we are all children of the most high.

Some of us in this world are just more trapped in the illusion of separation than others (like the powers that be).

The Pure in Heart shall inherit the Earth, not those who chose the right mental belief system.

The greatest among us are the greatest servants of all, not because they are slaves to all, but because they awaken the greatness, the Divinity within All.

[zaina]

I would love to PM you and hear your story zaina, but at the moment I don't have the privelege of PM's :sad:

I Proberly havent either ,I really not good with computers and having a little difficulty trying to find my post s to see my answers there has to be an easier way . if i get the courage i will post what i have to say just bare with me ...

[zaina]

I have such anwakening that it just blew my mind ,dreams of moses shouting at me .I had converted to islam and been practicing 6 years to the best of my ability .the dreams was moses saying ,get out of this ,he would tell me to go to sites the next day which site and what to read .I did this .and it went on for a while .I was taken in my mind but awake to a sufi master and he just looked at me with out saying a thing i can describe is lounge chairs picture etc .but it was 40 to 50 year prior after seeing the picture of this man he was so much older than the man i met .
my husband was really cross and and worried at the time he thought i was loosing my mind .the dreams i had when on for a bout a month untill i had broken the trance that i was in and things became very clear in that time .i seem to have acess to what i wanted to know ,didnt realise at the time ,and was worried as to what was happening to me ..at the time i felt i was slipping and being stripped of all belief ,i hang on to jesus as i love him very much as a friend ,and i wont ever let him go ,no matter what ,but this was the short version of my awakening .

[Gnosis5]

[QUOTE=100thmonkey;205665][snipped]

Yet Jesus, or any other teacher/guru isn't necessary for people to come to the realisation of their own I AM, or all of our One-ness, eventually.

'Life' is our greatest teacher - that's the Creator's original 'Gospel', and it's freely avalable to all, by default.

[snipped]

Yes, it was "Life" that got me starting my clearing work. I'm very aggressive about it and I find that the being I fixated upon (as either negative or positive) yesterday is released tomorrow.

For example, the night before my next session I kept wanting to look at pictures of white roses and did not like the fact that they had thorny stems. What comes up in session the next day? That very same metaphor of a duality that has frustrated me for eons. Solved. Question: what will I "fixate" on next? Answer: whatever is ready to be cleared in my next session.

Uncollapsing from all these beings and images peels off another layer of the onion and brings me closer to the zero point where I was and knew I was connected and was/am the All-that-is. For some strange reason that makes it easier for me to be happy with my 3D existence too.- like a toddler who knows he has not lost his Mommy in the Department Store :-)

[Gnosis5]

I have such anwakening that it just blew my mind ,dreams of moses shouting at me .I had converted to islam and been practicing 6 years to the best of my ability .the dreams was moses saying ,get out of this ,he would tell me to go to sites the next day which site and what to read .I did this .and it went on for a while .I was taken in my mind but awake to a sufi master and he just looked at me with out saying a thing i can describe is lounge chairs picture etc .but it was 40 to 50 year prior after seeing the picture of this man he was so much older than the man i met .
my husband was really cross and and worried at the time he thought i was loosing my mind .the dreams i had when on for a bout a month untill i had broken the trance that i was in and things became very clear in that time .i seem to have acess to what i wanted to know ,didnt realise at the time ,and was worried as to what was happening to me ..at the time i felt i was slipping and being stripped of all belief ,i hang on to jesus as i love him very much as a friend ,and i wont ever let him go ,no matter what ,but this was the short version of my awakening .

Hello Zania,

Are you familiar with Rupert Sheldrake's discovery or further elucidation of morphogenetic fields? This is more in the field of parapsychology (what one learns outside formal classroom study). It is another way of saying "group consciousness",and the group consciousness has a rulership.

In the case of religions the "ruler" may not always be the original teacher or guru, but another being that the group may unknowingly install.

This is why in the field of spirituality there is the frequent and constant admonition to "test the spirits". Does not the Bible also say the same?

best,
Gnosis

[Gnosis5]

I am starting to realize (at last!) that if I have a lot of stuck attention on something or someone then it is most likely the creation or created and not the All-that-is Creator. Not a bad thing, as long as I recognize it as a stepping stone on my way back to Home Base :-)

[Moxie]

14Chakras, what does this mean:
Mary was PURE (which was later mistranslated to mean "virgin"

While it's true that there are what, 17 other crucified saviour stories (a book by that title) that parallel the tales attributed to jesus's... just what does "PURE" mean in this particular one about Mary of which you are devoted?... the son of Mary and Joseph (what about Joseph's purity - was he pure, does it matter? or just the woman Mary?_

In fact, what is so spectacular about the jesus story that has your devotion specifically affixed to "him"? vs the other stories? Why the fixation on the purity of woman?

[100thmonkey]

what your thoughts on bible codesHmm, bible codes. Very interesting. :original:
I used to be interested in them as proof the bible must be true. The only thing was I realised the bible god is bad whether the bible is true or not...
As for the codes themselves, I subscribed to (and still receive) the Bible Code Digest email newsletter.
I've noticed however that the codes they find, while interesting that they are so, supposedly, improbable, they are also not from one particular point of view, ie. they aren't an extended message from the author of the bible, whoever that might be. The code finders even explain that certain codes sound like they are from bible god, some are from a jewish perspective, or a christian perspective. Some are even from a buddhist perspective (http://http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/665)! :mfr_omg: ...and so on.

As a prophetic tool they don't seem to function that way. They are so obscure that they only really seem to fit after the fact.

Either way I don't see them proving the bible's claims about itself, because they also prove other religions claims about themselves...
:shocked:

So, yes they are interesting, but are they true, or just wishful interpretation? I don't know what to make of them, so I just have a look and kind of move on.

Oh, the other problem I have with them is the different translations that exist of the Old Testament. Whichever one they choose to use as the basis for their code searches has to be proved as the one true translation 'given by god' first... yet they use several, ie. NIV, Masoretic text, etc.
It's all too flawed of a process to trust...
...but still a fun phenomenon.

If you've ever watched "John Safran vs God" on telly you'll see him get codes out of Moby Dick though, and even from some song lyrics of a CD he had on hand... :roll1:

[100thmonkey]

I think your response here shows you`re being deeply confused soul.Hello beren, I won't deny I'm deeply confused... :naughty: Though now I'm confused about what I'm confused about here though...?
Did I get something wrong?
I'm all for being corrected if my facts are in error. I've lived long enough in error that I'm happy for the truth to continue to set me free...

[100thmonkey]

...So I suggest we strive more than anything to BE Living examples of unconditional Love and understanding above all.

To me that indeed means challenging illusions when we see them, because that gives us all choice to come up higher, but it also means never labeling people as below us or good or bad based on their beliefs. Attacking people is truly attacking ourselves and contradicts most spiritual teachings we may be trying to follow...14 Chakras, I'm sorry if I come across as confrontational. I would never assume my self better (ie. more worthy) than others and do admire your posts/threads in general.
I really agree with most everything you've said, except where I've specified...
I do have a brisk manner of speaking/typing though, it seems. I't's just because I'm trying to cut to the point /facts of a matter, yet don't intend anything personal (actually I'm currently at my parents house for holidays and am surrounded by Jesus paraphernalia on every wall, fridge, calendar, ornament and other objects... so it's been in my face a bit lately... :lol3:)

[100thmonkey]

Uncollapsing from all these beings and images peels off another layer of the onion and brings me closer to the zero point where I was and knew I was connected and was/am the All-that-is. For some strange reason that makes it easier for me to be happy with my 3D existence too.- like a toddler who knows he has not lost his Mommy in the Department Store :-)[/SIZE][/FONT]Yes, solving one thing always seems to bring up another thing... You're last line is a bit of synchronicity for me as only yesterday I had this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoUHjLlK8EI)come to mind, which I haven't thought of for years (decades?)...:lmao:

[zaina]

Hello Zania,

Are you familiar with Rupert Sheldrake's discovery or further elucidation of morphogenetic fields? This is more in the field of parapsychology (what one learns outside formal classroom study). It is another way of saying "group consciousness",and the group consciousness has a rulership.

In the case of religions the "ruler" may not always be the original teacher or guru, but another being that the group may unknowingly install.

This is why in the field of spirituality there is the frequent and constant admonition to "test the spirits". Does not the Bible also say the same?

best,
Gnosis

hello ,no i am not familar with rupert sheldrakes ,but i will take a look thanks

[zaina]

Hmm, bible codes. Very interesting. :original:
I used to be interested in them as proof the bible must be true. The only thing was I realised the bible god is bad whether the bible is true or not...
As for the codes themselves, I subscribed to (and still receive) the Bible Code Digest email newsletter.
I've noticed however that the codes they find, while interesting that they are so, supposedly, improbable, they are also not from one particular point of view, ie. they aren't an extended message from the author of the bible, whoever that might be. The code finders even explain that certain codes sound like they are from bible god, some are from a jewish perspective, or a christian perspective. Some are even from a buddhist perspective (http://http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/665)! :mfr_omg: ...and so on.

As a prophetic tool they don't seem to function that way. They are so obscure that they only really seem to fit after the fact.

Either way I don't see them proving the bible's claims about itself, because they also prove other religions claims about themselves...
:shocked:

So, yes they are interesting, but are they true, or just wishful interpretation? I don't know what to make of them, so I just have a look and kind of move on.

Oh, the other problem I have with them is the different translations that exist of the Old Testament. Whichever one they choose to use as the basis for their code searches has to be proved as the one true translation 'given by god' first... yet they use several, ie. NIV, Masoretic text, etc.
It's all too flawed of a process to trust...
...but still a fun phenomenon.

If you've ever watched "John Safran vs God" on telly you'll see him get codes out of Moby Dick though, and even from some song lyrics of a CD he had on hand... :roll1:

yes i have seem how things can come out of books as well as bible ,strange really .but then is it really .

[happyhollergal]

100thmonkey, as I read your introduction to this thread, I completely identified with you. It's only been sixteen months since I became an ex bible thumpin Southern Baptist christian, and like you, it's had it's freedom giving aspects as well as the "my family thinks I'm nuts" side of it. What I'm saying here is not directed at those who want to blast me for my current belief/nonbelief system, so it would be nice for you to keep your belief blasting to yourself because it means nothing to me. The ones I take notice of are those who are not critical but rather intend to be helpful when responding. If I understood correctly, you were wondering if anyone else had experienced something similar to your life changing course, not to invite others to criticize you. Now that that's out of the way, let me say that I'm very glad that you shared such expressive thoughts openly here, and yes, Avalon does have many beautiful souls that are worthy of your good intentions. When I was jolted from my programming, for awhile I was angry that everything I'd been taught my entire life was a lie, and that Jesus was not coming in the clouds to save me and all those good pew warmers in my church from Armageddon. In an effort to prove that what I was learning was wrong, I went in search of other material to disprove the "new" information. It got worse, as I saw it at the time. No matter what I researched, the fact was that information has been changed, deleted, edited, altered and created throughout history for whatever reasons the ones who fiddled with it had in their plans at the time. This is how I came across Project Camelot and Avalon. I found a video with Bob Dean and Neil Freer, both discussing their beliefs in Zechariah Sitchin's work. As happens with lots of things, I kept reading and watching videos, and Sitchin's name kept coming up, so in order to not feel so ignorant about what was being discussed, I bought 2 of Sitchin's books, The End Of Days and The Lost Book Of Enki. After reading those, I had a completely different understanding of how humans were created and how the biblical stories compared to Sumerian tablets that have been discovered. I have since bought and read 9 other books by Sitchin. They are very deep at times, but to me, spell out the history of our planet in such a way that it makes perfect sense. There are those who will tell you that the Annunaki are reptilian shape shifters, and they are wrong. The ones who say that have NOT read all of Sitchin's material, and therefore have no right to state that opinion. Sitchin is not anti spiritual, in fact he's one of the most enlightened beings I've ever encountered. His work has helped me see things differently, but it does not encourage worship of the Annunaki. I would encourage you to read his work, and start with The End Of Days first (which is the easiest read) then The Lost Book Of Enki. It's kinda backwards as to the order they were written in, but to start with The Twelfth Planet may be a bit boring. I am here if you ever need to discuss your feelings and share ideas with someone who does understand. We are all here to learn and share with others, not to be critical, but to allow each being to follow their own paths and adopt whatever beliefs ring true to them. My heart sends wishes of hope to you this christmas, and I still call it that, even though it no longer has the same meaning it once held for me. Good luck to you in your search.

[100thmonkey]

Thankyou hollylindin (sorry I missed your post)
and happyhollergal.
Thankyou for your stories.

Yes, I was hoping to meet other ex-c's on the forum when I posted this thread, not just for a pity party :original: or a 'support group', but at least to know that we aren't alone - and also to kind of explain to some who haven't experienced such indoctrination why there might be some strong feelings involved, that may surface in seemingly strange ways on other threads. :wink2:

I don't mind some debate, since that's how I got free in the first place, being fearless in my questioning, as long as we're all open minded and polite.
Unfortunately cult's like the Jehovah's Witnesses and Bible Belt fundies are just those kind of closed minded groups, as my family still is too.

Although aren't we all proof that people can snap out of just such a funk? :winner_first_h4h:

happyhollergal, I have looked into Sitchin's work. I'm not so much a fan of the Nibiru stuff though I definitely believe there's truth in the Annunaki/Nephilim interference with human origins.
I've noticed Sitchin has a new book also, which is supposedly a kind of summary of his other books to date, so I was thinking that might be a good place to jump in?

[happyhollergal]

I have the new book, The Earth Chronicles Handbook. I wouldn't suggest buying it to jump in, as it's basically a dictionary with definitions of terms used throughout his other books. I was excited when I ordered it, but disappointed when it came in. Jim Marrs has some really good books out there too if you're interested. It's amazing, he's a journalist who tells the truth.

[MargueriteBee]

"Reading some beautiful spiritual wisdom on a thread here, or a site there, I have in the back of mind, “Oh, I know what a christian would say about this…” which is really the negativity of what ‘my old-self’ would’ve said…

It hinders my development, because everything is not just absorbed in it’s purest form, it has to battle past the outdated filters in my mind.
Yes, it takes it’s rightful place in my mind eventually, but somehow the experience has been tainted."

I know what you mean but it will get better. Resist the programming and it will fail.

[orthodoxymoron]

I really shouldn't make this post...but I just can't resist the temptation. Have you seen the South Park Merry F. Christmas videos on YouTube. It's really bad...but I just about died laughing! :mfr_omg::lol3::mfr_lol: I won't provide a link. Extreme viewer discretion advised.