Free Will - just how far can it go?

[Spregovori]

Feel free to move thread somewhere else if this section is not ok.

I searched the forums and was unable to find this specific "thing" I wish to discuss. If I missed something, please let me know the url and delete this.

----------

So how far can we extend our free will? The sky is the limit? There is no limit? We can do whatever we want to do and get affected accordingly to our doings?

If I have a free will...is it possible for me to choose not to reincarnate again?

Is soul immortal? But what if I do not want it to be immortal? What if I wish to end all possible levels of my existence?

I for example...have no idea on what the "higher level of existence" is to be... I know and feel nothing about that - therefore I do not miss it.

But I am tired of what I know.

So if I truly have a free will, would it not be logical for me to have an option, of being able to make a decision on reincarnating again or not?

I am not saying I would want to become a ..what was it said...crystalline DNA based life form or anything like that.... I would never dare to ask for something I do not believe myself I deserve.

I just very simply wish to end the soul. My soul. No more spiritual body-no more any kind of physical body...no more anything..

So...can this choice be mine? Can I make a decision?

Your thoughts...

EDIT:typos

[greybeard]

Hi
have a look at the ego thread some of the replies may help.
You have free will basically to say yes or no to what is.
You have the choice to acept your creator or reject but heaven help you if you do that -- smiling.
Choices are limited.
Even if you work hard to acheive some things no mtter how much you want them will not materialise.
Your existence is eternal so you have no choice on that one.
You can improve your existence.

No doubt you will get some wise answers here to your vaild questions.

Wishing you well
Chris

[Spregovori]

So I have no choice on ending my soul?

I fail to see why I should live up to some amm Creators expectations...just because he/she/it created me.

And so if I reject my creator...than what? It will send me back to Earth to live another life?

If I have no free will I am getting this any way...so this creator has nothing to "threaten" me with... I can reject it at any time. Even now.

[14 Chakras]

My take:

Merge with what IS and your I will turn into I AM and you will "not have to go out anymore" as it says in revelations ~

Some will merge with their I AM and create a whole new I AM, some will merge with their I AM and BE that I AM but not be sent out anymore ~

Free Will is eternal ~ the choice is ours how we use it


And yes, we will Always reap as we sew, always ~ so surrender to the higher Will within because it knows right action that will reap abundance and Peace that passeth understanding ~ whereas our separate will, will of our ego, inevitably makes unenlightened decisions that lead to suffering


Separation is suffering, Oneness is beyond suffering ~ Peace that passeth understanding

[Spregovori]

14 I do try but am having hard time understanding you. It is possible I totally missed your point.

I am to merge with current existence and become I AM?

That would be some interesting form of abomination. Not what this world needs right now.

Merge the abomination with myself becoming something new or remain the same?

eternal yes...but IS IT applicable in all possible ways?

I wish to choose - not to exist any more in any possible way.

I have no motivation to...do the last part of your post....

In my words: I am asking Mr. Oneness to cut the strings on my puppet and let it be.

[14 Chakras]

You are not your ego. Ego makes poor decisions when you choose not to Be.

Leads to suffering. Then no more desire to exist.

There is nothing wrong with this, only natural.

Let the ego cease to exist by observing it. The observer is at Peace.

Should u wish to cease to exist, observe yourself. Be the observer.

What is left is Pure consciousness ~ no thing ~ infinity ~

Suggestion: read Eckhart Tolle "Power of Now"

[Shadowstalker]

I feel that it can be done, the so called none existence, you would probably be cut of that is to say your conscience part will have no recollection of ever existing when you go back to your !AM , the prime creator it can make possibly the none memory for your part of the soul connection, your memories will be store in the memory of the creator but not for you as you would not exist as per say, if anything it would probably re rout your soul someplace else and you will not remember anything from this life.

[Stardustaquarion]

Free will is just that, you are free to do whatever but no one is excempt of the law of action, reaction and consequence. That is the nature of this Universe

Cheers

[Spregovori]

I feel that it can be done, the so called none existence, you would probably be cut of that is to say your conscience part will have no recollection of ever existing when you go back to your !AM , the prime creator it can make possibly the none memory for your part of the soul connection, your memories will be store in the memory of the creator but not for you as you would not exist as per say, if anything it would probably re rout your soul someplace else and you will not remember anything from this life.


Not good enough. I do not wish to be re-programmed.

Besides isn't it already like this?

One reincarnates without memory of past life? Nothing to regret about a previous life decisions - it is a poor system...lets people do "stuff" without thinking about them regretting it "later"

-----

14 I do not know how to observe myself... I can however see myself thinking. and I would only choose to end current existence under the condition I can later choose to also end my soul and be erased from history.

I am going to sleep now, it is 22:30 here atm. Will check this thread tomorrow.

[Peace of mind]

Life here is just a learning stage.
Maybe you are just bored, probably just tired of all the BS in life, tired of sorting thru the mounds of confusing and conflicting information coming at you from all directions, tired of the way people act towards each other. It can be exhausting and upsetting, but it also enriches the soul if you recognize all the lessons and blessings that are attached to everything you encounter. Live your life to the fullest, love friends and foes for what they teach you. Control the ego so it doesn’t reside in adverse conditions. What you go thru here is to prepare you for the next phase into eternity. Don’t let the dealings of this temporary reality place limits upon you.
When your time is up and you still choose to have no parts of your experiences archived, I’m sure that can be arranged. Ask and you shall receive…but be careful what you wish for.

Peace

[greybeard]

Hi again
If the Creator is rejected and that Love is allways available, then I have read that the soul goes to one of the lower astral realms, degrees of hell.

If this world is pergatorial then these places are many times worse.

Is there any chance you are suffering from depression?

I ask because I have felt similar to you.
Times I just couldent see the point of it all and felt unloved by God. I looked for oblivian in alcohol and paid a heavy price for that free will choice. A hell of my own making.
It was only when I had enough humility to ask for help that I got sober through AA and the God of my understanding.
If you are depressed see a Dr. or get help of some kind there is allways a way out of your own personal hell.

Best wishes
Chris

[Gnosis5]

So I have no choice on ending my soul?

I fail to see why I should live up to some amm Creators expectations...just because he/she/it created me.

And so if I reject my creator...than what? It will send me back to Earth to live another life?

If I have no free will I am getting this any way...so this creator has nothing to "threaten" me with... I can reject it at any time. Even now.

Can you model the concept that you yourself are the creator of every effect you are the receipt of? That is the operating definition of Creator -- wanted to create an effect [on himself] as Single Deity.

So he [you] had to create some space, some light, co-existence, some individuality, some awareness, truth, decency, ideas, a playing field, players, a game(s), ultimately some unconscioiusness, and I could go down the list, but it stacks up to everything you choose to be the receipt of NOW.

[RedeZra]

In my words: I am asking Mr. Oneness to cut the strings on my puppet and let it be.

It is possible to merge with Mr. Oneness

in fact that is the point


to step out of fantasy and enter Reality

which is One


that implies

there cannot be two

so it is One


all this time you thought you were you

with a body a name and a mind of it's own

Uniqe yes but different from the One no

it is Only One


for the One it matters not if our minds are still or not

It's point of view is above the clouds of confusion

but we might conjure up a thunderstorm

and blame our bad luck


we become what we think but we are not our thoughts

but the One

beyond the thoughts and the thinker


the One

Being Aware in Bliss

[Moxie]

I think you are, in a round about way, stating by positing questions, that we may indeed Not have free will.

The term free will is so overused and really, I've not yet seen a good definition of what it means.

If I truly have free will, could I just decide or choose to become a professional thief? No, it's not in me to do that, that choice I do not have. Could I decide to be a sexual lover of my same gender? No, it's not in me, that is not an option for me to choose. Could I decide or choose to become not exist at all? No one can answer that now can they? Can I choose or decide for my body to stop functioning, for my heart to stop beating from pure thought?.... nope, don't think so.

Many speak as thought their their "personality" continues on. I say it does not. What exactly is left when your body is gone? What is the point of having "character" without a body?

If we are all made of the same stuff, that same stuff is left after your personality is dead and gone. I do not think that your personality continues to exist, but then again, what do I really know? Pure speculation.

I have no memories of another existence, nor, if I had subjective experiences of having been out of my body (which I have) does that prove that I would exist without my body. That's my take.

I don't think we have free will to the extent that most think we do.

But I do understand your stance Spregovori... and there is nothing wrong with wanting to no longer exist. I don't have an ethical or moral problem with your wanting that.

I don't think that anyone truly knows what happens when this body dies.

I know that I do not want to live in another state where every time that I eat something has to die. I would not ever want to create an existence where a being has to experience death either. I wonder
sometimes what sort of god created this existence....

but then, I'm just sputtering nonsense, it's okay to think and speculate.

[Spregovori]

Free will is just that, you are free to do whatever but no one is excempt of the law of action, reaction and consequence. That is the nature of this Universe


So I can not make any choice, I can only pick among the choices given to me?

Life here is just a learning stage.
Maybe you are just bored, probably just tired of all the BS in life, tired of sorting thru the mounds of confusing and conflicting information coming at you from all directions, tired of the way people act towards each other. It can be exhausting and upsetting, but it also enriches the soul if you recognize all the lessons and blessings that are attached to everything you encounter. Live your life to the fullest, love friends and foes for what they teach you. Control the ego so it doesn’t reside in adverse conditions. What you go thru here is to prepare you for the next phase into eternity. Don’t let the dealings of this temporary reality place limits upon you.
When your time is up and you still choose to have no parts of your experiences archived, I’m sure that can be arranged. Ask and you shall receive…but be careful what you wish for.

Peace

Very close if not a direct hit... I am tired of practically everything (including myself).

Also some very nice words but I have no motivation or ambition etc to do that. I know what I wish for. It is like sleep - without dreams.

Hi again
If the Creator is rejected and that Love is allways available, then I have read that the soul goes to one of the lower astral realms, degrees of hell.

If this world is pergatorial then these places are many times worse.

Is there any chance you are suffering from depression?

I ask because I have felt similar to you.
Times I just couldent see the point of it all and felt unloved by God. I looked for oblivian in alcohol and paid a heavy price for that free will choice. A hell of my own making.
It was only when I had enough humility to ask for help that I got sober through AA and the God of my understanding.
If you are depressed see a Dr. or get help of some kind there is allways a way out of your own personal hell.

Best wishes
Chris

Worst place than earth? Is that possible? Well I admit...I live in Europe - one of the more privileged parts of this world. My ass is in a warm place, I have access to food and water, I can even go and buy myself Xbox360 with a nice big screen and some top games... Not like someone that has to search for drinkable water everyday and knows nothing about an item like Xbox.... But I do not care much about that either...

If there is no memory of past life...than I probably will not regret what I am doing now...and also the all good loving mighty one...will just have to do better than trying scarring me into "living up to expectations"

I might be...depends on how you define it. I do not drink alcohol..my father was an alcoholic...the memory is hard encoded so there will be no alcohol for me, I also do not smoke or do drugs...never did...I also do not do crime, do not fight (never did) etc... I have a job, I greet my neighbors, I visit my grandmother, I even let the old ladies to take my sit on the bus....I am a "good" little human....



Can you model the concept that you yourself are the creator of every effect you are the receipt of? That is the operating definition of Creator -- wanted to create an effect [on himself] as Single Deity.

So he [you] had to create some space, some light, co-existence, some individuality, some awareness, truth, decency, ideas, a playing field, players, a game(s), ultimately some unconscioiusness, and I could go down the list, but it stacks up to everything you choose to be the receipt of NOW.

So I am the creator, I decide about everything regarding me? But if I am the creator...than you also are..and we are one...how can I than do what I want if I am a part of you an everyone else?

If I am the creator I choose in NOW to end my existence.



It is possible to merge with Mr. Oneness

in fact that is the point


to step out of fantasy and enter Reality

which is One


that implies

there cannot be two

so it is One


all this time you thought you were you

with a body a name and a mind of it's own

Uniqe yes but different from the One no

it is Only One


for the One it matters not if our minds are still or not

It's point of view is above the clouds of confusion

but we might conjure up a thunderstorm

and blame our bad luck


we become what we think but we are not our thoughts

but the One

beyond the thoughts and the thinker


the One

Being Aware in Bliss


Thank you for taking the time to write this.

I think you are, in a round about way, stating by positing questions, that we may indeed Not have free will.

The term free will is so overused and really, I've not yet seen a good definition of what it means.

If I truly have free will, could I just decide or choose to become a professional thief? No, it's not in me to do that, that choice I do not have. Could I decide to be a sexual lover of my same gender? No, it's not in me, that is not an option for me to choose. Could I decide or choose to become not exist at all? No one can answer that now can they? Can I choose or decide for my body to stop functioning, for my heart to stop beating from pure thought?.... nope, don't think so.

Many speak as thought their their "personality" continues on. I say it does not. What exactly is left when your body is gone? What is the point of having "character" without a body?

If we are all made of the same stuff, that same stuff is left after your personality is dead and gone. I do not think that your personality continues to exist, but then again, what do I really know? Pure speculation.

I have no memories of another existence, nor, if I had subjective experiences of having been out of my body (which I have) does that prove that I would exist without my body. That's my take.

I don't think we have free will to the extent that most think we do.

But I do understand your stance Spregovori... and there is nothing wrong with wanting to no longer exist. I don't have an ethical or moral problem with your wanting that.

I don't think that anyone truly knows what happens when this body dies.

I know that I do not want to live in another state where every time that I eat something has to die. I would not ever want to create an existence where a being has to experience death either. I wonder
sometimes what sort of god created this existence....

but then, I'm just sputtering nonsense, it's okay to think and speculate.

Yes..you are correct...this (among other things) is what I am stating. If I can not choose to end myself in all possible ways...I have no free will.. and at that moment...I could not care less for any "divine laws" etc

There never was a definition...there are only guesses...and perceptions of this on an individual personal level. Actually you can choose to be a thief or a same sex lover...nothing can stop you...but yourself.

Choosing to end the soul...now that is rather difficult if you do not know - how to do it.

Indeed...much if not all is just speculation.

What sort of a being created this existence? I could try to answer this but than the thread would get deleted due to the violation of verbal violence. :) and since I am at work now I do not have the necessary time to form the answer in acceptable manner.

[RedeZra]

free will

free to play within a sandbox


how free is a child from the parents...?

that is the relationship between us and the Creator


but who believes that

who believes in a FatherMother of all humanity

who wants to be a child


we all want to be grownups and we are not so good at it

[Spregovori]

free will

free to play within a sandbox


how free is a child from the parents...?

that is the relationship between us and the Creator


Sandbox? A program that emulates a computer in order to detect and disable a virus.

Child is always free from his parents...unless you count the child as property. But the child can be depended on his parents....which can either take good care of him and teach him...or f*** the child up in a way that not only he will not recover but he will also "put if forward" to his/her children... (the later is more common).

creator is a very bad parent...someone should call social services

[Leunamros]

free will goes, as far you want it to go, no matter if it don´t has consecuences over your reality. Control wannabes want it to be stickyed onto the fact you can´t have control unless you can actually control what you desire to be controlled, always failing miserably under that premise. They fail for a very good reason they haven´t discovered yet, though. They define free will under the limits of his own limited mind.

[RedeZra]

Sandbox? A program that emulates a computer in order to detect and disable a virus.


Or

a box that contains sand for children to play in


Can the child do whatever it wants ...no rules ...no repercussions ...?


Now our parents raises us while we grow up in a society with codes conducts and culture


How can you possibly blame this on the Creator...?

[Stardustaquarion]

Spregovori, well at any one time we have 12 probabilities or choices, that is quite a lot of choices!!! Still the all oneness does not judge us so basically it is up to us

Contrary to popular belief the one that reincarnates is the soul and not the physical person, karma (good or bad) gets imprinted in the DNA as frequency acretion or decretion (up or down)

I think it is a wonderful system, it encourages to be thoughtfull and kind with all because all is the all oneness and we are the all oneness

Love

[Spregovori]

Or

a box that contains sand for children to play in


Can the child do whatever it wants ...no rules ...no repercussions ...?


Now our parents raises us while we grow up in a society with codes conducts and culture

How can you possibly blame this on the Creator...?


Child in a sandbox...a trapped animal... sandbox - a distraction...keep the child busy so the poor parents can have some time for themselves...

Child can do whatever it wants...he is not aware of the rules...at least...not until the rules hit him.

codes, moral, culture, laws...all artificial...all here to keep us apart, make us dance to the music we can not hear....

I hmm can not relate everything directly to the creator...it would be interesting to talk to him....face to face or how some say it - mano a mano

:)

I can still joke...unbelievable....


I just wish to know how far I can extend my free will...when the time comes...either naturally or by my choosing.


Spregovori, well at any one time we have 12 probabilities or choices, that is quite a lot of choices!!! Still the all oneness does not judge us so basically it is up to us

Contrary to popular belief the one that reincarnates is the soul and not the physical person, karma (good or bad) gets imprinted in the DNA as frequency acretion or decretion (up or down)

I think it is a wonderful system, it encourages to be thoughtfull and kind with all because all is the all oneness and we are the all oneness

Love

12 choices? Elaborate? Name - 1,2,3....?

I do not care if I get judged...or if it judges or not....if I have free will that does not concern me. My wish makes it irrelevant whether it judges or not...

We are as one?

Well yes...I no longer wish for my soul to get imprinted into anything or anyone... I seek to separate myself from the collective...unplug from the hive mind...

The point is in free will...do I have it in all possible meanings of the word or don't?

Since it is to be the base...the fundamental brick of everything that is (free will). If we do not have it...everything that was build on that brick...collapses...

[RedeZra]

Child in a sandbox...a trapped animal... sandbox - a distraction...keep the child busy so the poor parents can have some time for themselves...

Child can do whatever it wants...he is not aware of the rules...at least...not until the rules hit him.

codes, moral, culture, laws...all artificial...all here to keep us apart, make us dance to the music we can not hear....



you call a child playing in a sandbox for a trapped animal :mfr_lol:


children likes to play

alone or with others

without the annoying parents


the parents are there for the child

come comfort time and hunger


the child is not allowed to cross the streets alone or eat yellow snow lol


a society is the common ground of a group of people living together

without codes conducts culture we would have anarchy or harmony

depending on the people that makes up the society

[Spregovori]

society is rotten

going to sleep now...the state when I am what I am...when all the horrors are unleashed

will be back tomorrow, make sure you do not eat yellow sow....what is that anyway...is that the snow someone urinated on? must taste like bad ice cream...

[Stardustaquarion]

Spregovori, as per Keylonic Science this universal system is base twelve, we have 12 mayor chakras, 12 bodies, 12 chakras etc each manifested being in this planet has 12 provable selves until it choses a path to know itself.

Free will is the gift we all received to experience ourselves, that experience can take us to our self demise or to our self expansion

The principles that govern energy in the whole of creation are explained in the link below

http://www.azuritepress.com/techniques/attitudes_responsibilities.html

For your post I realize that you are searching for freedom, that is my quest too. I have searched for the ultimate freedom, explore many avenues and my personal understanding is that it only comes from learning how to handle multidimensional energy, freedom is the ability to be whatever you want to be and be wherever you want to be at any time without constrictions. That kind of freedom comes only from self mastery.

I am currently studiying Keylontic Sciences and found most of the answers I was searching for, of course it is not everyone's path, but may be what you are looking for. It is not a easy path but it is a path of truth and expansion into self mastery

Love

[Spregovori]

Spregovori, as per Keylonic Science this universal system is base twelve, we have 12 mayor chakras, 12 bodies, 12 chakras etc each manifested being in this planet has 12 provable selves until it choses a path to know itself.

Free will is the gift we all received to experience ourselves, that experience can take us to our self demise or to our self expansion

The principles that govern energy in the whole of creation are explained in the link below

http://www.azuritepress.com/techniques/attitudes_responsibilities.html

For your post I realize that you are searching for freedom, that is my quest too. I have searched for the ultimate freedom, explore many avenues and my personal understanding is that it only comes from learning how to handle multidimensional energy, freedom is the ability to be whatever you want to be and be wherever you want to be at any time without constrictions. That kind of freedom comes only from self mastery.

I am currently studiying Keylontic Sciences and found most of the answers I was searching for, of course it is not everyone's path, but may be what you are looking for. It is not a easy path but it is a path of truth and expansion into self mastery

Love

While commendable I find this 12/24 commandments rather..."limiting"

By your stating I can get my "wish come true" ... I can detach myself from all that is and end this pathetic existence for ever...IF I attain self mastery?

That IF is rather bothering. It only raises more questions. Who made the rules? Who can break them? How to break them?

and IF there are more paths...than i suppose it is up to me to narrow down the options...which in a long run is counter productive...

I refuse to subjugate myself to rules and commandments in order to be able to have a free will since it is not really free than is it?

The only way a will can be free is if it is "given"...no questions asked...no demands issued...no expectations presented...no guilt induced...

[Stardustaquarion]

You have free will you can do what you want don't you?

Cheers

[Stardustaquarion]

But you can not over ride the physics and rules of energy dynamic, you may be able to bend them but at a price...that price may be that rather than becoming an Ascended Master you become unconscious space dust

Every choice has a price, it gives you energy or takes energy from you, it can expand you and make you freer or can contract you and make you implode

You will not know until you try

Cheers

[Spregovori]

But you can not over ride the physics and rules of energy dynamic, you may be able to bend them but at a price...that price may be that rather than becoming an Ascended Master you become unconscious space dust

Every choice has a price, it gives you energy or takes energy from you, it can expand you and make you freer or can contract you and make you implode

You will not know until you try

Cheers

space dust it is than

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxM4EbN9lMY

[RedeZra]

space dust it is than


if so you have a long journey ahead

to descend all the way

from a human to a speck of dust


besides you seem like a nice guy

so I do not think God will allow that lol


we are not so free as we believe we are

[Spregovori]

we are not so free as we believe we are


#$&%/&$!!!! :)

Exactly! The creator #%$&(/(&($%$#$&% and %&%%&%&

so now you know, there is no free will

I am just a puppet on a string..or it could be a stick.

[RedeZra]

so now you know, there is no free will

I am just a puppet on a string..or it could be a stick.


well who are you really


you are not what you think you are

you are not what others think you are


you think you are the body the name your thoughts your personality

and you believe that and identify with that


if so you are more or less

like all the rest

a puppet on a string or a stick lol


when you know who you really are

all will be crystal clear


and this is the point of life

[Spregovori]

I dislike that point of life.

It gives me no ambition, no insurance, no point, no nothing...and it also negates the general spread believe in a free will AND by that it nullifies everything structured upon the so called "free" will


You like to answer in a form of a poem. This is what creator must be humming to it self all "day" long:


Is it bright where you are
Have the people changed
Does it make you happy you're so strange
And in your darkest hour
I hold secrets flame
We can watch the world devoured in it's pain

[RedeZra]

You like to answer in a form of a poem

I would not call it a poem lol

its only words following words


you are free to dream

and to chase the dreams

of course you have some freedom


what is your wish

do it or dream about it

[Gnosis5]

FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION

Freedom of expression is difficult to realize in a universe where dualities have become fixed polarities.

Freedom of expression lends more sanity to Free Will: As long as one is polarized Free Will is degraded.

A being who can exercise freedom of expression is closer to his balanced native state of all knowing, all loving, all powerful.

Those who can act out as compulsive/obsessive have a reduced freedom of expression and thus good judgment. I do not think there is a o ne of us who are not faced with healing ourselves of restricted freedom of expression, internally caused.

Gnosis

[Spregovori]

what is your wish

do it or dream about it


This just might work

FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION

Freedom of expression is difficult to realize in a universe where dualities have become fixed polarities.

Freedom of expression lends more sanity to Free Will: As long as one is polarized Free Will is degraded.

A being who can exercise freedom of expression is closer to his balanced native state of all knowing, all loving, all powerful.

Those who can act out as compulsive/obsessive have a reduced freedom of expression and thus good judgment. I do not think there is a o ne of us who are not faced with healing ourselves of restricted freedom of expression, internally caused.

Gnosis

I see no reason to fear duality. It is here...like breathing.

The rest is just another "rule"...one amongst the many...a little more chaos in already disorderly place. It proves nothing and its usefulness is just as "mythical" as free will.

[orthodoxymoron]

Welcome Spregovori!

You can check-out...but you can never leave. Freedom and Responsibility are interconnected. Choosing to cease to exist would be irresponsible...but I don't see why an extended vacation from all of the BS couldn't be arranged. I feel like you do a lot of the time. Freedom does have it's limits.

I found a really cool section of the 'Urantia Book' which sheds light on the principles and concepts discussed in this thread. I continue to be enamored with the concept of Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom. Without the qualifying words 'Constitutional' and 'Responsible'...'Freedom' in nothing more than 'Anarchy' and 'Rebellion'...which quickly degenerates into an even worse form of 'Tyranny' than the one which was so righteously objected to. Was this Lucifer's BIG mistake? PLEASE closely examine the following words:

054:1 TRUE AND FALSE LIBERTY http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p054.htm

54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.
54:1.2 True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice—intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.
54:1.3 Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.
54:1.4 Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.
54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.
54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.
54:1.7 Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation.
54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.
54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.
54:1.10 Evolutionary man may have to contend for his material liberties with tyrants and oppressors on a world of sin and iniquity or during the early times of a primitive evolving sphere, but not so on the morontia worlds or on the spirit spheres. War is the heritage of early evolutionary man, but on worlds of normal advancing civilization physical combat as a technique of adjusting racial misunderstandings has long since fallen into disrepute.

Hang in there.

:original:Namaste:original:

[Spregovori]

Ortho I can not find any different answer for this than the ones I have already given to other statements.

It is interesting though

[Gnosis5]

This just might work



I see no reason to fear duality. It is here...like breathing.

The rest is just another "rule"...one amongst the many...a little more chaos in already disorderly place. It proves nothing and its usefulness is just as "mythical" as free will.

This is an answer I frequently get in one form or another whenever I drop the complete datum regarding dualities.

I do not fear duality, it is not to fear, except it breeds fear when too many dualities of extreme opposition become fixed ways of being -- either one end of the pole or the other and little or no freedom of expression in between the two oppositions.

This is part of my personal clearing work so I know the difference within myself and my daily interactions of having a fully functioning, full range of expression between the two ends of a duality.

Yes, it should be as natural as breathing, but many beings are holding their breaths, as a rough analogy.

What do you see your role(s) to be in helping this planet recover to a higher state of order? i already know what my role is.

Gnosis

[Kundaflower]

Dear Spregovori,

I think this has nothing to do philosophical debate.
You are just depressed for what ever the reason is:rip_1:

It will not cure unless you start found something that
makes you feel better. :huglove:

Depression has something to teach us, so i am not saying its not valid experience. But it should be just it, experience and then move to next thing
in your life.

So if you found anything that makes you feel better do it.:thumb_yello:
Chill out!:tongue2:
Keep a break of those things that depress you, will ya ?

You are great!

Love and peace
K:wub2:

[Spregovori]

What do you see your role(s) to be in helping this planet recover to a higher state of order? i already know what my role is.



You do? How can you know? What amm tangible guerenties do you have?

Gnosis - mystically enlightened human being? A special knowledge or insight into the infinite, divine and uncreated in all and above all?

You sir have a lot of confidence.

I do not see myself in any possible role, regarding improving this little rock....given the current circumstances...and does it need improving? Or is the human animal that needs improving? Since...besides its annoying tilt Earth is just dandy.

I do write a blog about how stuff is (no ET mentioned, they can hardly accept the banking system). But I write it so I have something to do. I could have just as easily be doing something else...depends...

Why would I want to save the world? Is there a reason somewhere? Although I was told not to have outside expectations...I do not...not any more... But if there is a reason do tell...so I can go and see it. Try to distance yourself from the usual UNICEF&CO. emotional extortion....not to mention the money given most likely ends up in some despots pockets.

This creator person..either this being you and me...or something else..that made me so I can be...to...do thy bidding my lord? Well as more days past...the less motivated I am.

I do not remember ever singing-up or accepting any form of legally binding contract to save the universe and right about now I just wish to get off the save the world train.

I do LIKE people, I do not hurt people..I sometimes tend to insult them..but in most cases that is since...they think the same about themselves...I am an average "good boy" and do not worship some heavy dark metal somethingever group...etc... I have no intention to stop or hurt anyone (myself excluded) .... I just wish to "exercise" my free will....if I have it.

Since that is the whole point now is it?

Do you have free will or do you have chores on a rather "grand" scale of things?

Dear Spregovori,

I think this has nothing to do philosophical debate.
You are just depressed for what ever the reason is:rip_1:

It will not cure unless you start found something that
makes you feel better. :huglove:

Depression has something to teach us, so i am not saying its not valid experience. But it should be just it, experience and then move to next thing
in your life.

So if you found anything that makes you feel better do it.:thumb_yello:
Chill out!:tongue2:
Keep a break of those things that depress you, will ya ?

You are great!

Love and peace
K:wub2:

Depressed? I might be... How about pis**ed off (angry)? Or...there is even better word but let us remain "civil". There has been some minor turbulence here lately and some did not take it well. I do not wish to start anything.

It would be best if we put hypothetical medical prognosis aside and focus on the problem at hand which itself is more than enough hypothetical or perhaps a better word would be lucid?

My English vocabulary is rather limited since it is not my natural language.


EDIt: "typos"

[Spregovori]

Just read the latest Salusa update. It made a very "strange" feeling inside of me (regarding free will etc)

But I think I got my answer from you,from other threads...

1st conclusion is that - there is much all of us do not know (even if we think we do)

2nd - I think I should just trust my feeling

3rd - there is no spoon, just shapes of it

4th - free will might be all about changing the shape

might be


Some mode please either close the thread or even better - delete it. I do not wish to "influence" any "innocent bystanders".

[Neo]

I do believe that you have absolute free will, but what you would choose now may not be what you choose after this life, its all perspective. Alot of us, including me would choose to never come back to this reality, but that is a choice purely from this viewpoint. When you die you would see things from an entirely differnt view and dare I say it you might want to actually come back to this stupid game.

[Gevaudan]

You have to find peace in the fact that there may or may not be an answer to questions you have. There is a very deep mechanism behind the demand for answers from the Universe, and I haven't the time to get into it at the moment.

In my case, I finally found comfort in doubt and made peace with it. I too wanted answers, and it wasn't until I stopped caring that the answers came. Whatever may be the case (freewill or not, continued existence or not) I think we can all agree that we're here and everything just 'is.' As long as you remain in a position of judgment things will remain clouded. It is not like the fog is ever removed, either. Once you accept things for what they are your perception will change as will your understanding of the current situation.

Peace


G