SNOW CIRCLES ...instead of CROP CIRCLES [Archive] - Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE)

THE eXchanger

12-21-2009, 05:30 PM

_,_.___

http://www.rense.com/general88/snowc.htm

Holland - Biggest Snow Circle Formation Ever - Pics
By Nancy Talbott
BLT Research Team Inc
12-21-9

A 60m x 52m snow formation, made up of 23 rings of various diameters, was found on December 19th near Hoeven, Holland.

Photo: Roy Boschman.

At around 11:30pm (Netherlands time) on the night of December 17th I had called the young Dutch medium Robbert van den Broeke in Holland, and we talked until about 1:30 * 2:00 am (Netherlands time) about various things. Toward the end of our conversation Robbert said he felt that some circles might be coming in the snow...and I got the impression, based on my past experiences with Robbert (http://www.bltresearch.com/robbert/php), that this was likely to occur before Christmas.

The next evening (Friday, Dec. 18th) at around midnight Robbert got a very strong feeling that a formation was arriving at a field not too far from his home which we call the "special" field (because so many anomalous events have occurred there over the years). He telephoned a local friend, Ellen Gomis, to ask if she would drive him to the field to see if there was a new circle present, and Ellen agreed. It was very cold and there were several inches of snow on the ground.

When they arrived at around 1:00 am (Saturday, Dec. 19th) Robbert immediately felt what he described to me as a quiet, very still, "holy" feeling and heard what he could best describe as a choir of "angels" singing. I asked Robbert if Ellen heard this, too, but he said "no"-it was only he who heard the "singing." As they walked down from the dike both Ellen and Robbert saw multiple rings which had been scooped out of the snow-covered field.

Note that the snow which has been removed to create the rings is not piled up around the edges-it is simply missing altogether.

Photo: Roy Boschman

Because it was dark, and very very cold, Robbert and Ellen did not stay long to inspect the field. The next day (Saturday, December 19th) Robbert and Roy Boschman returned and could then see the entire formation-but Robbert is not certain that all of the rings were present the night before. He thinks that perhaps more rings were added after he and Ellen left late Friday night.

Close-up taken Dec. 19th shows that the 3-4 inches of snow removed to create

the rings is not piled up around the edges. Photo: Roy Boschman

When Roy and Robbert got to the field in daylight on the 19th no footsteps were visible except near the edges of the formation closest to the dike, where Robbert and Ellen had walked the night before. There were no footprints at all out in the rest of the field, or in any of the rings farther out in the field. And there were also no piles of the snow which had apparently been removed anywhere in the field.

No footprints were found anywhere in the field, other than those near the dike where Robbert and Ellen had stood the night before.

Photo: Roy Boschman

Roy Boschman's diagram of 23-ring snow formation, Dec. 19, 2009

It is Roy's impression that the two largest rings were elliptical, as indicated in his diagram, above. Roy also noted the extreme cold of the previous night (during which the rings appeared), the lack of footprints, and the fact that the "missing" snow is not piled up anywhere in, or anywhere near, the formation-all of which seem to rule out mechanical creation of the rings.

A more detailed report, with additional photos, will be posted on the BLT Research Team's web-site (http://www.bltresearch.com) shortly.

Nancy Talbott

BLT Research Team Inc.

P.O. Box 400127

Cambridge, MA 02140 (USA)

ph: 617/492-0415

web-site: www.bltresearch.com

.

THE eXchanger

12-21-2009, 05:31 PM

Here's a pic

Angel in Disguise

12-21-2009, 05:35 PM

Anyone one else noticing a spiral in there?...

mntruthseeker

12-21-2009, 05:36 PM

Can you hear me ?

I am laughing and smiling so big right now

I just added this link to my face book account and put a little note on there saying I can't wait to hear how they are going to explain this away (tptbs)

OMG

I am so loving these awesome snow circles

thank you so much for making my day by sharing these :naughty::naughty::naughty:

and a very big thank you to our friends in that put the message out there

micjer

12-21-2009, 05:46 PM

This came to mind...

http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss64/Micjer_2009/haarplights.jpg

Haarp facilities.

mntruthseeker

12-21-2009, 06:02 PM

you think so Micer but when I first seen them..........all I could think of was the ET's that are truly sending us a message

Where you have crop circles, you most deffinately have ETs interaction

How can HARP do this without melting the snow ? I just dont see that happening.

Besides.............twice I tried to put this on Face Book but someone doesnt let me hmmmmmm so I sent emails to all my friends to have them
take a look

waitinginthewings

12-21-2009, 06:25 PM

Anyone one else noticing a spiral in there?...

I do not see a spiral, but I do see a bump on the right side of the first large circle, which makes me wonder about who made it.

The circles made by the ET's are flawless & beautiful.

Angel in Disguise

12-21-2009, 06:32 PM

Check the diagram pic Exchanger posted... there's a definite spiral looking circle, the only one that stands apart from the rest... PS... We should do lunch again soon Waiting :wink2:

waitinginthewings

12-21-2009, 06:45 PM

Check the diagram pic Exchanger posted... there's a definite spiral looking circle, the only one that stands apart from the rest... PS... We should do lunch again soon Waiting :wink2:

It was exchanger's thumbnail pic that I saw the irregularity in....check out the top large circle, right hand side, about 2/3 way down....it is irregular? Am I the only one seeing it.....I know my glasses need changing...maybe thats whats wrong:lol3:

Will be in touch Angel.

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 07:37 PM

Northern Boy

12-21-2009, 07:37 PM

perhaps those brainy blu buddies from that other forum will come and explain it .:mfr_lol:

kari

12-21-2009, 07:39 PM

I don`t get it, why not just make it easy to understand?
Instead of showing circles in the field or in the snow, just tell us what is going on,if they have a message? Instead of makeing it in to a fu..... guessing game?How hard can it be for those "intelligent" circlemakers whoever they are, just tell it like it is, instead of this bs.
Kari

waitinginthewings

12-21-2009, 07:42 PM

perhaps those brainy blu buddies from that other forum will come and explain it .:mfr_lol:

:thumb_yello::lmfao:

Soulcrafter

12-21-2009, 08:08 PM

I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this but from all that I have been able to gather, complex crop circles are created by human artists. I think these snow circles are just more of the same.

Matthew Williams is a crop circle maker and documentary maker in England. He has a YouTube channel called truthseeker666 with numerous videos describing how crop circles are actually made. He also has the absolute best 3 hour crop circle documentary there that anyone interested in the phenomena simply must watch.

After years of looking into this I am convinced crop circles aren't ETs trying to send us a message. If they are then the ETs would be guilty of choosing one of the most inefficient methods imaginable.

Also, before I get the usual "what about this or that" responses let me say this. Crop circle makers have created formations and allowed researchers to test them. These 100% for sure created by humans crop circles have shown all the traits of supposed "genuine" crop circles, ie. strange magnetic and radiation readings, blown nodes, and so forth. The evidence and information is out there.

Crop circles are at best a distraction. At worst they have become a UFO neo-religion with the crop circle makers the unwitting gods/priests to the believers and reseachers who refuse to recognize their presence.

I think that the Norway Spiral will be appearing in crop circle formations in the future because of the great interest it generated and the place it has already found for itself in the mythos.

I'm 100 % backing you up here. I've been 15 years in the crop circle community on both sides. As researcher in the beginning and ended as circlemaker. Sadly the mass so want's to believe that this is from an outside source/aliens/special energies. The truth is they are none of them. To start off the so called anomalies such as blown and elongated nodes are the effects of phototropism. The downed plants reorientate themselves back to the light and this causes them to bend at the nodes. In some cases you will find the nodes blown open and then yeast (black fungi) comes out. That is because the plant bends quicker than the normal growth rate. Nothing special just the effects of nature. The so called untouched bloom which actually reapears every morning when the dew gets heated up by the sunlight. Also when someone calls himself a bio physisist without having a Phd raises some questions about the honest research being done in this. No wonder no REAL scientist has ever touched the research because they also know what the effect are of stressed plants. As for the magnetic effects that is also simply understood. The single plants have a magentic field. The fileds themselves have a magnetic field. If you disturb this magnetic field by pushing the crop down you alter the magnetic value of this field. No wonder the magnetometers are picking up on it or even dowsing for that matter.
Glad to see some people are not accepting the spoon of myths and lies about
this phenomena. I'm not saying there aren't any paranormal effects in this phenomena but those are in a total different field of research. It has nothing to do with the plants themselves. Good observation trainedobserver. ;)

here is a 3 hour documentary that goes a little deeper into the circlemaking activities:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgfuUwM4xQQ

mntruthseeker

12-21-2009, 08:20 PM

THE eXchanger

12-21-2009, 09:08 PM

666 can be inverted to 999

and, it is NOT a mark of the beast ~ and, if it is,

what fools they were, to chose something so obvious

THE YEAR OF TRUTH ~ or ~ CONSEQUENCES is ahead !!!

2010 ~ can you hear the bells ringing yet ???

Will sure be interesting to see,
who can surf, and, who falls off their boards :mfr_lol:
(pardon the bun)

:surfing:

TRANCOSO

12-21-2009, 09:15 PM

I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this but from all that I have been able to gather, complex crop circles are created by human artists.

TrainedObserver, I don't know what you gathered where, but obviously you haven't gathered enough, otherwise you wouldn't come up with this.

I'm 100 % backing you up here. I've been 15 years in the crop circle community on both sides. As researcher in the beginning and ended as circlemaker.

Circlemaker Soulcrafter, it took 80 people 2 days to create the huge formation in Holland, at the end of last summer.

The Crop Formation mystery is not about human made formations, it's about formations which appeared in the wink of an eye.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver are artists though.
BS artists.

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 09:17 PM

Oh well, guess I'm pretty guilible cause I still believe that they are not all man made no matter what you wrote. In fact 2 of the well known researchers were murdered and I wonder why someone would want them to shut up ?

Please dont hold it against me. I dont believe in the 666 for the mark of the beast.............scare tactic symbol.

Oh, well good then. You shouldn't change your mind based on the few words that I posted. You should watch and read everything you can about the subject before drawing a conclusion. If you haven't watched Matthew's videos and documentaries then you most certainly should as I think they contain the hidden truth behind the phenomena.

As the above posting of SoulCrafter points out. Often, people who REALLY investigate crop circles discover the truth and become crop circle makers themselves. This was the case for Matthew Williams and several others mentioned in his videos as well. Crop Circles are actually a sociological phenomena and not a "paranormal" one. Which in my opinion, makes it even more fascinating but for different reasons.

Why would a researcher be murdered? For any number of reasons I imagine. The hostility toward anyone who points out the truth of crop circles amongst crop circle true believers is of course ... tremendous. There is a great deal of money and face to be preserved. Crop Circles are a "cash crop" for unscrupulous researchers, people get nasty when you challenge their livelihood or their dearly held beliefs.

Crop circles are a distraction. There is nothing of any significance to be learned from puzzling over the formations ... they are nothing more than cereal Rorschach blots ... people will see what they will see in them whether the author put it there or not.

For the record ... in case anyone is wondering. Yes, I think UFOs are a real phenomena. I think some form of the ET hypothesis explains it. I think (well I know) that the U.S. government knows they are real and compartments of the government have studied them since the 40s and believes them to be extra-terrestrial. I think that the U.S. UFO study effort was privatized sometime in the 60s. I think that abductions do occur and that an alien presence has been on the Earth for 100s if not 1000s of years. So ... I'm not the debunking Satan sent here to rain on your parade.

THE eXchanger

12-21-2009, 09:20 PM

. So ... I'm not the debunking Satan sent here to rain on your parade.

Satan is a lot like Santa Claus - you can conjure him up, with your mind

waitinginthewings

12-21-2009, 09:21 PM

trainedobserver: Just out of interest, does Matthew go around the world making all the crop circles, he must be a busy guy.

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 09:24 PM

TrainedObserver, I don't know what you gathered where, but obviously you haven't gathered enough, otherwise you wouldn't come up with this.

Whatever.

The Crop Formation mystery is not about human made formations, it's about formations which appeared in the wink of an eye.

I have seen no reliable evidence that any have appeared in such a manner. I have seen tons of reliable evidence to the contrary. Based on evidence ...what should I conclude?

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver are artists though.
BS artists.

The ad hominem attack. A waste of time and space.
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 09:34 PM

trainedobserver: Just out of interest, does Matthew go around the world making all the crop circles, he must be a busy guy.

Obviously he isn't the only one making crop circles. If you had taken the time to investigate him or watch any of his videos you would have realized this. But of course you haven't done so have you?

This same trite comment is often made about Doug and Dave, the two artists credited with starting the modern Crop Circle phenomena. The fact of the matter is the whole business exploded and became something much larger than anyone would have thought. This aspect is also covered in detail in the documentary I mentioned on his youtube channel. There are many different teams and individuals who make crop circles. It doesn't require you join a union you know. Practically anyone could do it and the evidence shows that people from all over the world have picked up on it. As Soulc pointed out and as is documented on video, some people who investigate the phenomena realize just what is happening and then "join in" for any number of reasons.

Be my guest. Continue to think (or should I say 'believe') that crop circles are made by some mysterious force. It doesn't bother me in the least.

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 09:43 PM

Satan is a lot like Santa Claus - you can conjure him up, with your mind

What this has to do with Snow or Crop Circles I can't imagine but ...Virgina, there is neither a Santa Claus or a Satan.

I'm just a guy trying to be honest with himself and others. My longtime investigation into UFO and surrounding phenomena has led me to cast aside many of the beliefs and assumptions I had about them to begin with. Sometimes it made me angry and disappointed but that's ok. Uncomfortable truth is preferable to soothing fantasy.

If you disagree with me I'm really very, very ok with that and not threatened by opposing views in any way.

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 09:49 PM

666 can be inverted to 999

and, it is NOT a mark of the beast ~ and, if it is,

what fools they were, to chose something so obvious

You raise an excellent point. Numbers are simply symbols created by human beings. Outside of human experience they have no meaning whatsoever. They hold no significance or meaning beyond what human beings give to them. The same is true for crop circles, snow circles, or dirt circles for that matter. To truly realize this is to be set free from a great deal of ... shall we say ... potential manipulation.

Majorion

12-21-2009, 09:52 PM

Hmm... first time I hear of Snow Circles..

Quite impressive photos though, I just wonder how someone could technically even draw shapes like this in snow without leaving footprints, tracks, etc.

waitinginthewings

12-21-2009, 09:53 PM

Obviously he isn't the only one making crop circles. If you had taken the time to investigate him or watch any of his videos you would have realized this. But of course you haven't done so have you?

This same trite comment is often made about Doug and Dave, the two artists credited with starting the modern Crop Circle phenomena. The fact of the matter is the whole business exploded and became something much larger than anyone would have thought. This aspect is also covered in detail in the documentary I mentioned on his youtube channel. There are many different teams and individuals who make crop circles. It doesn't require you join a union you know. Practically anyone could do it and the evidence shows that people from all over the world have picked up on it. As Soulc pointed out and as is documented on video, some people who investigate the phenomena realize just what is happening and then "join in" for any number of reasons.

Be my guest. Continue to think (or should I say 'believe') that crop circles are made by some mysterious force. It doesn't bother me in the least.

There probably is some groups making crop circles which is too bad really, because it clouds the whole issue.

The problem I have is that this theory does not explain how a crop circle can happen in a matter of minutes, & where strange glowing orb like objects have been photographed above the circle, implying the possibility that the circle was been made by this object, or had some other connection to it. There is definitely a mystery that needs investigation through open minds and not through those who are focused solely on debunking.

Its easy to jump on the bandwagon of humans made them which serves another agenda and most certainly not real research in the quest of truth and understanding.

hollylindin

12-21-2009, 09:56 PM

There is definitely a mystery that needs investigation through open minds and not through those who are focused solely on debunking.

I agree, Waiting. I find just as much negativity in those who try to debunk everything as those who think there's always a conspiracy (although, in the world we live in right now, I would say MOST are conspiracy because the lies of the powers that were are so obvious).

<3

TRANCOSO

12-21-2009, 09:56 PM

I have seen tons of reliable evidence to the contrary.

TONS of reliable evidence?! Now you make me curious. And where can I find these tons of reliable evidence, exactly? And who is the judge upon the reliability of this so-called evidence?

Often, people who REALLY investigate crop circles discover the truth and become crop circle makers themselves.

So people who REALLY investigate crop circles discover 'the truth' & become circle makers themselves. Just like that. Overnight. They go to sleep as a scientist & the next morning they wake up as skilled artists. They just KNOW that, because obviously one can't practice crop circle making in the backyard. You need at least a field with a crop. That's only there between May & September. Need I go on?

And anybody who doesn't discover 'the truth', isn't REALLY investigating crop circles!

The ad hominem attack. A waste of time and space.

Than let me waste some more time & space by stating that I haven't read such a load of BS on crop circles as I read in your posts, for a very, very, very long time. Its troll-like disinformation. Utter BS!

Please don't make assumptions about me and trainedobserver.

Show me one formation which supposedly appeared in the blink of an eye....

Dear Soulcrafter, I do whatever I please when I smell a pile of BS.

I ain't gonna show you anything. Just do your homework, as I've done.

And that's all I have to say. I haven't got time for this kind of energy sucking. Bye, bye & have a nice life.

Soulcrafter

12-21-2009, 10:00 PM

TrainedObserver, I don't know what you gathered where, but obviously you haven't gathered enough, otherwise you wouldn't come up with this.

Circlemaker Soulcrafter, it took 80 people 2 days to create the huge formation in Holland, at the end of last summer.

The Crop Formation mystery is not about human made formations, it's about formations which appeared in the wink of an eye.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver are artists though.
BS artists.

Please don't make assumptions about me and trainedobserver.

Show me one formation which supposedly appeared in the blink of an eye....

Soulcrafter

12-21-2009, 10:03 PM

Hmm... first time I hear of Snow Circles..

Quite impressive photos though, I just wonder how someone could technically even draw shapes like this in snow without leaving footprints, tracks, etc.

Easy, you report them a day or so later when it has snowed again. think logical people please :nono:

mntruthseeker

12-21-2009, 10:06 PM

The truth is we are all right

Some are made by the "decievers" hands under their command

Some are ET's and like I said before why did they kill off two of the investigators ?

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=89348.0;wap2

sorry cant remember the other ones name.........I in the middle of making dinner so it will have to wait

Majorion

12-21-2009, 10:07 PM

Easy, you report them a day or so later when it has snowed again. think logical people please :nono:

Not sure exactly what you're saying Soulcrafter, it seems odd, I think there should be some tracks or some sign of activity near the circles, which there absolutely isn't, and I don't think its worth fighting over either way as it seems to now.

hollylindin

12-21-2009, 10:11 PM

The truth is we are all right

I agree, TruthSeeker - I've always believed E.T.'s were behind crop circles, but I've also seen the truth behind the powers that were assembling teams or using far-reaching technology in order to create a few of these. Because the truth is, if one person who believes "aliens" are behind crop circles sees proof that a HUMAN created one, perhaps they would lose their faith in beings of other worlds! Horrible, dirty trick, I think, but it's up to us to not take everything at face value and instead search within to find the answers.

<3

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 10:15 PM

There probably is some groups making crop circles which is too bad really, because it clouds the whole issue.
...
Its easy to jump on the bandwagon of humans made them which serves another agenda and most certainly not real research in the quest of truth and understanding.

Ha! That is the whole point I am trying to make here. The issue isn't clouded ... it is a cloud. And it is NOT easy to jump on the human's make crop circles bandwagon. At least it wasn't for me or many others. It took a great deal of digging, head scratching, and changing of opinions and beliefs.

I have seen absolutely no evidence to substantiate reports of instantly generated crop circles. If you can supply some I'll gladly review it and change my opinion if it merits changing.

The most famous video of a orb creating a crop circle (Olivers Castle) is a self-confessed (John Wabe) hoax. Look it up. Now one of the amazing things about this phenomena is that even after I have provided folks with enough information to investigate this for themselves 99% them will not but will rather be content to believe they have actually seen something they haven't because they just know, just know in their heart of hearts, that humans cannot make those things.

I mean ... crop circles makers have stood in formations they have made and told researchers "... made this one last night... got me plans, boards, and ropes in the boot ... wanna see?" and faced ridicule, disbelief, and accusations of working for MI5. No wonder many of them are having such a cynical laugh at the whole business of crop circle "researchers" and believers.

It is an amazing and fascinating phenomena to be sure.

kriya

12-21-2009, 10:24 PM

Trained Observer,

You neglect to mention the huge amount of energy (radiation) detected in some circles. I can attest to this phenomenon myself as I have experienced it.

Love,

Kriya

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 10:28 PM

TONS of reliable evidence?! Now you make me curious. And where can I find these tons of reliable evidence, exactly? And who is the judge upon the reliability of this so-called evidence?

Please review my posts to this thread. A source containing hours and hours of material is waiting for your review.

So people who REALLY discover 'the truth' become circle makers themselves. Just like that. Overnight.

Uh ... in a word. No.

They go to sleep as a scientist & the next morning they wake up as skilled artists.

Actually I think they are mostly stoned kids trying to find some spiritual or paranormal connection. The transition to crop circle maker/artist then isn't that big of a stretch.

And anybody who doesn't discover 'the truth', isn't REALLY investigating crop circles!

Well ... that is another logical fallacy and certainly one that I have not made here in this forum or anywhere else that I recall.

Your comments suggest to me that you have not reviewed the opposing views evidence. It is dangerous to formulate opinions based on one-sided information. I invite you or anyone else to review all of the evidence before drawing your conclusions. I have shared my opinion based on my investigation. If you disagree with me, well fine, I won't stoop to insulting you for it. I would just encourage you to keep looking at it.

hollylindin

12-21-2009, 10:30 PM

The most famous video of a orb creating a crop circle (Olivers Castle) is a self-confessed (John Wabe) hoax.

I am open to the possibility that this video WAS real and created by beings from other worlds, but this John Wabe individual was pressured into saying he'd created the whole thing. I'm open to the possibility of it being a hoax as well (although I have seen light orbs myself throughout the last year so I HAVE seen they exist.), but I'm definitely open to the possibility there are lies there.

The bottom line is, you feel very strongly about that, TrainedObserver, and I respect that. You have your reasons. But please be respectful of others' opinions, as they have their reasons, too.

<3

hollylindin

12-21-2009, 10:33 PM

My personal thought has always been that this thing we call "needing proof" was INVENTED, so to speak, by the powers that were. What better way to create more cynical, skeptical individuals - and moreso individuals who won't use their personal intuition and look INSIDE to find the answers (therefore finding that the real power is THEMSELVES! :D)?

This isn't a personal attack on you, TrainedObserver - I'm referring to anyone who's investigated through outside sources; just something you said reminded me of it.

<3

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 10:39 PM

Trained Observer,

You neglect to mention the huge amount of energy (radiation) detected in some circles. I can attest to this phenomenon myself as I have experienced it.

Love,

Kriya

No I did not neglect to mention that. If you will kindly reread my posts to this thread you will see I dropped that into my first response to this thread along with the preamble ... "Also, before I get the usual 'what about this or that' responses let me say this."

I also prefaced my first response with ... "I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this ..." How correct that was! Ha. ha.

The problem is this. Researchers have tested crop circles "known to be made by humans" and found all the energy anomalies and what have you that are found in allegedly "genuine" crop circles. The only conclusion you can reach is that these tests do nothing to indicate a crop circle's origin.

Peace,
T.O.

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 10:44 PM

The bottom line is, you feel very strongly about that, TrainedObserver, and I respect that. You have your reasons. But please be respectful of others' opinions, as they have their reasons, too.
<3

I have been respectful. Your caution is unnecessary and directed toward the wrong individual. I have stated my opinions and given my reasons for them along with enough information for anyone to review the evidence themselves. I have answered the vague responses with specific case evidence as with the orb hoax.

hollylindin

12-21-2009, 10:46 PM

I have been respectful. Your caution is unnecessary and directed toward the wrong individual.

My message was really for everyone - in seeing that I am respectful toward you and your opinion, others will notice that as well and respond in kind. It wasn't really a "caution", as it was only my way of reaching out to you and showing support.

<3

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 10:48 PM

My personal thought has always been that this thing we call "needing proof" was INVENTED, so to speak, by the powers that were. What better way to create more cynical, skeptical individuals - and moreso individuals who won't use their personal intuition and look INSIDE to find the answers (therefore finding that the real power is THEMSELVES! :D)?
<3

The alternative to drawing conclusions based on evidence ("needing proof") is what exactly and how is that proven to get better results? I have walked down that road my friend. I didn't just fall of the turnip truck.

Christo888

12-21-2009, 10:51 PM

They look fake, like a bunch of kids just walked in circles.

:winksmiley02:

Soulcrafter

12-21-2009, 10:53 PM

Not sure exactly what you're saying Soulcrafter, it seems odd, I think there should be some tracks or some sign of activity near the circles, which there absolutely isn't, and I don't think its worth fighting over either way as it seems to now.

Fighting? We are discussing :) All i can say is try it for yourself.

hollylindin

12-21-2009, 10:54 PM

The alternative to drawing conclusions based on evidence ("needing proof") is what exactly and how is that proven to get better results?

I just don't think it's about "better" or "worse" - I don't think any of this is. I think it's about what feels right to the person. Relying entirely on external evidence is an easy way for one to be less proactive in connecting to their inner self and finding what is really important on the inside. I feel all of this is just one big distraction.

<3

kriya

12-21-2009, 10:55 PM

No I did not neglect to mention that. If you will kindly reread my posts to this thread you will see I dropped that into my first response to this thread along with the preamble ... "Also, before I get the usual 'what about this or that' responses let me say this."

I also prefaced my first response with ... "I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this ..." How correct that was! Ha. ha.

The problem is this. Researchers have tested crop circles "known to be made by humans" and found all the energy anomalies and what have you that are found in allegedly "genuine" crop circles. The only conclusion you can reach is that these tests do nothing to indicate a crop circle's origin.

Peace,
T.O.

OK,

Sorry for not reading your original post properly. Yet I still have to disagree with you basic premise. When you walk along the fields in Wiltshire you don't generally get electric shocks from the ground. Now I would agree that energy could be detected in hoaxed circles due to ley lines etc.. but not to the extent that I experienced it. I am not actually of the opinion that they are made by ETs, however I do believe that some kind of weird natural phenomenon occurs to create them, or perhaps its even our own collective consciousness.

We won't agree, so I am just going to leave it at that.

Love,

Kriya

Soulcrafter

12-21-2009, 10:55 PM

kriya

12-21-2009, 10:59 PM

Radiation? I wonder why people are not getting ill when visiting crop circles.

They do apparently, especially severe headaches. In fact,a month after stumbling on one myself, a quite large mole appeared on my lip, I was 28.

Love,

Kriya

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 11:02 PM

I just don't think it's about "better" or "worse" - I don't think any of this is. I think it's about what feels right to the person. Relying entirely on external evidence is an easy way for one to be less proactive in connecting to their inner self and finding what is really important on the inside. I feel all of this is just one big distraction.

<3

Well I most strongly disagree. It is about results. What bears out good and reliable results? Examining evidence, asking questions, getting answers, conducting experiments, checking results, or "how we feel about it"?

"How we feel about it" creates varied and unreliable results. The unvarnished neurological truth of the matter is "How we feel about it" has more to do with your blood sugar than about the truth of a given matter. I'm sorry, but that is just the reality of that business. Something I learned in what I now view as "the hard way". Everyone is welcome to learn it that way as well although I can't really recommend it.

trainedobserver

12-21-2009, 11:12 PM

OK,
... but not to the extent that I experienced it.

How could you possibly "know" this?

... however I do believe that some kind of weird natural phenomenon occurs to create them, or perhaps its even our own collective consciousness.

Oddly enough, I've given you the resources to review demonstrations and testimony that provide evidence provided by actual crop circle makers themselves that show that crop circles are made by human beings. Your evidence or justification for them being naturally occurring phenomena or the products of a collective consciousness is what exactly? See where I'm coming from? See where it is going?

Again. I encourage everyone reading this to view the documentaries and videos provided by Matthew Williams (youtuber truthseeker666) on how crop circles are made, who makes them, the veracity of popular researchers, and so forth before reading this thread any further.

hollylindin

12-21-2009, 11:18 PM

Well I most strongly disagree. It is about results. What bears out good and reliable results? Examining evidence, asking questions, getting answers, conducting experiments, checking results, or "how we feel about it"?

But you're still saying how YOU feel about it; isn't THAT based on blood sugar as well? ;)

We differ in opinion, TrainedObserver. And that's okay! That doesn't mean we can't be friends; that doesn't mean we are enemies. It just means that - based on the world we each live in, based on the experiences we've both had, based on who we are as souls - we see things from a different perspective. Maybe someday, you'll see the world from my angle - maybe someday, I'll see the world from yours.

Your vision of "good and reliable results" IS examining evidence, asking questions, getting answers, conducting experiments, and checking results; MY vision of "good and reliable results" is reading and absorbing, asking questions (we have that in common! :)), looking inside, meditation, and reflection upon my own past experiences or intuitive feelings and finding how it applies now.

We all have a path to truth; it's just that said paths may look a little different. And I appreciate that difference - it surely makes the world interesting! Could you imagine how boring and uneventful the world would be if everything you said to people was always agreed with?! Some of the most passionate conversations, where the most answers are found, are those that stem from disagreements. (And some of the most passionate conversations, where the most answers are found, are those that stem from agreements. ;))

We are all one, TrainedObserver! :D

<3

kriya

12-21-2009, 11:22 PM

Your evidence or justification for them being naturally occurring phenomena or the products of a collective consciousness is what exactly?
.

My own experience.

micjer

12-21-2009, 11:48 PM

hollylindin

12-21-2009, 11:50 PM

No not made by Haarp....the snow circle may be telling us that Haarp made the Norway spiral.

What a profound thought! I hadn't thought of this, Micjer.

Where in Ontario are you, if you don't mind my asking? I'm ten-ish minutes southwest of London. :)

<3

micjer

12-21-2009, 11:52 PM

What a profound thought! I hadn't thought of this, Micjer.

Where in Ontario are you, if you don't mind my asking? I'm ten-ish minutes southwest of London. :)

<3

Southern Georgian Bay near Owen Sound.

Cheers!

truthseekers

12-22-2009, 12:27 AM

[QUOTE=trainedobserver;206394]I doubt anyone is going to want to hear this but from all that I have been able to gather, complex crop circles are created by human artists. I think these snow circles are just more of the same.

Matthew Williams is a crop circle maker and documentary maker in England. He has a YouTube channel called truthseeker666 with numerous videos describing how crop circles are actually made. He also has the absolute best 3 hour crop circle documentary there that anyone interested in the phenomena simply must watch.

Oh well, guess I'm pretty guilible cause I still believe that they are not all man made no matter what you wrote. In fact 2 of the well known researchers were murdered and I wonder why someone would want them to shut up ?

Please dont hold it against me. I dont believe in the 666 for the mark of the beast.............scare tactic symbol.

Hello mention the devil and he shall appear. hehe... I am the Matthew Williams u speak of. Someone told me you were chatting about me in here so I thought I would show up.

The 666 in truthseekers is just a youtube thing as truthseekers on its own name was already taken. 666 is catchy and makes people think.... oooh whats all that about. Whilst some people want to demonise me, i dont feel like much of a demon, unless you try to wake me any day before noon!

I am personally not impressed by the recent snow circle activity as it centres around Mr De Brouke who always seems to have "things" happening around him. If you ask me its him doing this stuff and to date he has only had gullible researchers around him liek Nancy Talbott. She wont speak to me because I have dared her to come out with us and she is too much of a believer to come out and see the truth for herself.

Yes anyone who wants the truth should trawl through the Circlemakers video on my channel. I do my best with facts and foul language and severe attitude to discuss the crop circle subject I love so much. I hope you get to see though that I love circles, I just dislike the nonsense surrounding circles from people who call themselves researcehrs but who are really just proclaimers who do no real research. I believe in the paranormal. Also I believe crop circles attract paranormal thinsg hence why we do them. People are welcome and encouraged to take part in the magic and see for themselves. That is what crop circles is all about, unsigned magical art which gives people positive strange experiences. Thats the real story the researchers DONT WANT YOU TO HEAR!

If you have any serious questions and arent going to attack me on here I will answer all the questions I can for you.
Matthew:naughty:

mntruthseeker

12-22-2009, 12:35 AM

mntruthseeker

12-22-2009, 12:38 AM

perhaps those brainy blu buddies from that other forum will come and explain it .:mfr_lol:

You are too too funny.............I just got your message, hey NB go check it out and let us know OK

the smurfs are up to no good again !

Snowbird

12-22-2009, 01:28 AM

The orbs are very busy!! :original:

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 03:23 AM

a quite large mole appeared on my lip

:lmao::mfr_lol::roll1: sorry but that sounded so funny.
Why do you think that's the result of 'radiation'?
Do you have any evidence of that?

hollylindin

12-22-2009, 03:46 AM

[QUOTE=mntruthseeker;206433]Also I believe crop circles attract paranormal thinsg hence why we do them. People are welcome and encouraged to take part in the magic and see for themselves. That is what crop circles is all about, unsigned magical art which gives people positive strange experiences.

Beautifully put, Matthew! I'm a huge believer that most crop circles are alien-made, but I'm with you there - the ones I feel ARE made by us are definitely there to bring about paranormal things and get some answers! And "unsigned magical art" is a great way of describing it.

<3

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 03:53 AM

My own experience.
Care to share us the full story? Thank you in advance.

hollylindin

12-22-2009, 03:57 AM

Care to share us the full story? Thank you in advance.

Oh, yes, Kriya, I would LOVE to hear about your experience!

<3

mntruthseeker

12-22-2009, 05:37 AM

No not made by Haarp....the snow circle may be telling us that Haarp made the Norway spiral.

I really don't know. lol

Aha execellent assumption.............One just never knows

I'm one of these waiting for the Flaming Blue Sphere and I'm sure tptb is aware of many of us that will look for such a sign..........go figure eh

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 05:38 AM

The problem I have is that this theory does not explain how a crop circle can happen in a matter of minutes

Show me one formation you think appeared in a few minutes. Thx in advance.

TRANCOSO

12-22-2009, 12:02 PM

Show me one formation you think appeared in a few minutes. Thx in advance.

One fine day an RAF jet flew over Stonehenge. It happened to be a favourite spot of the pilot, so he looked down & saw everything was normal.
45 minutes later, approaching from the opposite direction, the pilot noticed something had changed in the landscape.
To his astonishment he saw a huge - as in HUGE - crop formation had appeared, now known as the (first) Julia Circle.

I'm not gonna do your homework for you, but being the expert you pretend to be, you undoubtedly know exactly what I'm talking about.
Mind you, we have here a trained observer (sic), a RAF jetfighter pilot, a 45 minute time interval & a HUGE & complex formation, that - on paper - can only be drawn by a computer.

Now count the circles & do the math.

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 12:18 PM

One fine day an RAF jet flew over Stonehenge. It happened to be a favourite spot of the pilot, so he looked down & saw everything was normal.
45 minutes later, approaching from the opposite direction, the pilot noticed something had changed in the landscape.
To his astonishment he saw a huge - as in HUGE - crop formation had appeared, now known as the (first) Julia Circle.

I'm not gonna do your homework for you, but being the expert you pretend to be, you undoubtedly know exactly what I'm talking about.
Mind you, we have here a trained observer (sic), a RAF jetfighter pilot, a 45 minute time interval & a HUGE & complex formation, that - on paper - can only be drawn by a computer.

Now count the circles & do the math.

The answer is very simple.

You need enough sunlight to reflect on the formation otherwise you gonna fly right over it and you won't even notice it.

Here is a video that explains it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTKmaf7H8jk

Big cropcircle there, can you spot it? No, because there is not enough light reflecting it.

Example:
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv337/goldenboy123/ScreenShot003.jpg

Another example:
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv337/goldenboy123/ScreenShot004.jpg

now you see me...

Different angle:
http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv337/goldenboy123/ScreenShot005.jpg

now you don't...

Magical isn't it? :thumb_yello:

TRANCOSO

12-22-2009, 12:43 PM

The answer is very simple.
You need enough sunlight to reflect on the formation otherwise you gonna fly right over it and you won't even notice it.

:wall: :wall: :wall: :nono: :nono: :nono:

Bye, bye!

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 01:36 PM

:wall: :wall: :wall: :nono: :nono: :nono:

Bye, bye!

For some people nothing will ever be proof of something, bye bye :naughty:
you don't even seem to care to give an explanation why you act like this. Yawn DP
I would suggest to find out for yourself, get in an airplane with your camera and see for yourself.

trainedobserver

12-22-2009, 01:58 PM

But you're still saying how YOU feel about it; isn't THAT based on blood sugar as well? ;)
<3

No. Let's think about it this way. Say you have a car. Do you take it to a mechanic who is schooled in automotive mechanics, who will examine the evidence, make conclusions based on the evidence, and then make the appropriate repairs? Or do you take it to a man who meditates on what might be the cars problem and based on how he feels at the moment may or may not replace some part in the car for no real mechanical reason?

The "scientific method (http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring/project_scientific_method.shtml)" is what we are talking about vs. what exactly?

The Internet, the method by which we are communicating, the myriad machines that make it up, was designed and is maintained through science and not through meditation, looking within, or revealed knowledge, nor could it ever be.

The evidence that Crop Circles are created by human beings through the use of rather prosaic mechanical methods is there for all to see. Some of the makers are more than willing to tell and explain all about it, but you have to have an open mind (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI) and the willingness to examine the evidence without bias.

The reluctance to let go of the paranormal explanation for something by people who claim to be on some sort of spiritual journey to the truth is incredibly disconcerting but not surprising to me for the simple reason I did the same thing for many years. I understand where you are coming from after a fashion. However, at some point the passion for the truth must overtake any pet theories or ideas that we might have or it isn't a pursuit of truth at all. This can very difficult, depending on the subject, or at least it was for me.

As I've said before, believe what you will, but at least look at all of the evidence available and revise your conclusions as necessary. For your sake.

Testing of Crop Circles ([URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDCx-MJKbp4)
How to work out a crop circle is man made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeNTm7rn-_s)
The science and "experts" exposed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKc1H8h3wwA)
Crop Circles being made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAQ-d07HlE)

trainedobserver

12-22-2009, 01:59 PM

My own experience.

This is like pulling teeth.

What is your experience?

trainedobserver

12-22-2009, 02:18 PM

Hello mention the devil and he shall appear. hehe... I am the Matthew Williams u speak of. Someone told me you were chatting about me in here so I thought I would show up.

Wow! A real whistle blower with tons of experience and video evidence. Now that would make a great Project Camelot interview don't you think Mr. Ryan?c

truthseekers

12-22-2009, 02:35 PM

my remark about 666 is just as it is................to me its just a number and what ever reason you decide to add it is fine with me.............

Maybe seeing as you showed up, you would like to explain to us how you think the "snow circle" happened to be done. Is it fake snow and wheat sprayed white ahead of time or what ?

I can't imagine snow not melting and regardless of anything you may say, I believe that at least 20 % of crop circles are not done by anyone here or do you think we are alone on this planet ?

.

To state that you will not be interested in any possibilities I give means you are playing the same game many crop circles researchers play which is that no matter how much evidence is given to them they will defy it and go against it. I dont go with this sort of position.

No i dont think it is wheap sprayed white. Its interesting that you use the 20% argument which is basically you picking up and repeating the statements of crop circle researchers. the latest figures from this years say more like 5% may be real. What next year... none are real. I think it just comes down to the quality of the researh which has been helped along by circlemakers such as ourselves helping teh researchers to see the facts.

No. Let's think about it this way. Say you have a car. Do you take it to a mechanic who is schooled in automotive mechanics, who will examine the evidence, make conclusions based on the evidence, and then make the appropriate repairs? Or do you take it to a man who meditates on what might be the cars problem and based on how he feels at the moment may or may not replace some part in the car for no real mechanical reason?

The "scientific method (http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring/project_scientific_method.shtml)" is what we are talking about vs. what exactly?

The Internet, the method by which we are communicating, the myriad machines that make it up, was designed and is maintained through science and not through meditation, looking within, or revealed knowledge, nor could it ever be.

The evidence that Crop Circles are created by human beings through the use of rather prosaic mechanical methods is there for all to see. Some of the makers are more than willing to tell and explain all about it, but you have to have an open mind (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI) and the willingness to examine the evidence without bias.

The reluctance to let go of the paranormal explanation for something by people who claim to be on some sort of spiritual journey to the truth is incredibly disconcerting but not surprising to me for the simple reason I did the same thing for many years. I understand where you are coming from after a fashion. However, at some point the passion for the truth must overtake any pet theories or ideas that we might have or it isn't a pursuit of truth at all. This can very difficult, depending on the subject, or at least it was for me.

As I've said before, believe what you will, but at least look at all of the evidence available and revise your conclusions as necessary. For your sake.

VIDEOS
Testing of Crop Circles ([URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDCx-MJKbp4)
How to work out a crop circle is man made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeNTm7rn-_s)
The science and "experts" exposed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKc1H8h3wwA)
Crop Circles being made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAQ-d07HlE)

I am glad some people like yourself have the skills to spot that circles are man made. To many it's too much of a shattering prospect to realise that circles arent made by aliens directly. However some of the experiences that both circlemakers have had and people visiting the circles are enough to say that there is something unusual going on even though people make the circles. I have been driven/guided to go out and make a design that a group were meditating on. I did the exact shape they were asking for.

There is a heap load of arrogance and denial about human circlemaking. I find it hard to know if it is due to researchers wanting to keep face, make some money or gain some power over followers of their theories or if it because they just are not bright enough to get the truth. I know **for certain** I have seen time after time researchers who will all out lie their butts off when they know full well a circle has been created with the farmer been paid for a experiment/demonstration or wedding ceremony or all manner of reasons, they will then tell their followers there is no evidence the circle was man made. Now stand where I am standing and tell me you would cry a big FOUL if you had seen these researchers do this. How could you ever take them seriously again if you knew that???

This is literally what I am up against. Its not about being truly right, it seems to them it is about being seen to be right, even if your wrong. This is a lot for many people who are genuinely interested in these subejcts to take on board. They naturally want to fall back behind the trench lines of belief in circles. The wish not to underme the core beliefs they have held for years means that is often easier for people to believe that circlemakers are the liars and go back to untested researchers positions rather than face that many (yes manY) researchers either dont know whats going on, or do know exactly whats going on and arent saying! The reasoning for positions held on crop circles are usually because of what you saw on tv or read in a book or heard in a lecture. Very few people actually properly research circles and fewer still bother to speak to circlemakers or listen t teh things we are saying. So people gain their beliefs based on third hand information, not well established facts gained first hand.

There are even videos now being released where in order to win favour from eager belivers the researchers are resorting to efforts to say that we are government agents. I just cant believe this. I even had Linda Moulton Howe say that I worked for the CIA. How come I work for the CIA when I'm British? Sheesh! Wheres the proof? Well the simple answer is there is no proof, these are just hunches and opinions from researchers who are angry as hell that we are bit by bit taking away their believers and making them look silly. However I must stress that before my recent youtube education campaign we had tried in vain for many years to work with researchers who were prepared to speak to us to help them understand the truth of how circles were made by people. Most wouldnt even speak to us, behaving in very agressive or offhand manner. Had they worked with us and seen the truth 9 years ago I would not be so determined now with my youtube channel and lectures to present the truth to a wider audience. Its their problem if they couldnt move with the times.

Its like someone who has one of those suitcase mobile phones - its old school... it doesnt work on todays networks... its not sophisticated and you missed the boat. Smart kiddies can grasp much easier than older folks new information and its the older folks who have a much harder time seeing the facts.

One of the most couragous researchers to tell the truth is Colin Andrews, who said he felt most circles were man made. That took a lot of guts and honesty to do that. However look what happened to him. He was then cut off from the research community. His lectures were cancelled and he isnt welcome to speak in many groups now. This is how the information is controlled folks and it isnt a conspiracy by MI5 or the CIA... its the people who organise these conferences and their customers who want to control the flow of information so it spins the way they like it. Bear this in mind. It is a fact!

[QUOTE=truthseekers;206704]

Wow! A real whistle blower with tons of experience and video evidence. Now that would make a great Project Camelot interview don't you think Mr. Ryan?

I am happy to do an interview with anyone... who is Mr Ryan?

Majorion

12-22-2009, 03:00 PM

believe what you will, but at least look at all of the evidence available and revise your conclusions as necessary. For your sake.

It seems you're extra passionate about this trainedobserver, but what exactly are you suggesting, are you simply refuting specifically the snow circles discussed here, or are you generalizing a conclusion that ALL crop circles are fake (man made)? I'm assuming the latter?

trainedobserver

12-22-2009, 03:48 PM

It seems you're extra passionate about this trainedobserver, but what exactly are you suggesting, are you simply refuting specifically the snow circles discussed here, or are you generalizing a conclusion that ALL crop circles are fake (man made)? I'm assuming the latter?

My passion if for the truth. Whatever that may be. In this case I have been speaking specifically about crop circles. Yes, I am saying that the evidence shows that all complex crop circles are created by human beings. Real "saucer nests" as they were once called, do exist. However they are simple things, impressions on the ground or crop, or changes in the soil. There are numerous examples of this type of thing most remarkably the Rendelsham Incident circle that Robbins took the soil samples from for analysis. See Left At East Gate by Warren and Robbins for an account of this along with photos. There are several other examples you can find easily enough.

These snow circles are most likely man-made as well. They could have been manufactured any number of ways.

In my opinion, and in my experience, these things are distractions and don't really provide any insight into the UFO phenomena, but rather cloud the study of it with disinformation and wasted energies.

trainedobserver

12-22-2009, 04:05 PM

T
I am glad some people like yourself have the skills to spot that circles are man made.

Thanks. Your efforts in educating the public on the truth of crop circles are largely responsible. I appreciate the honest work you are doing. Please keep it up. Please produce a DVD or two with your videos on them. And please do make another Crop Circle documentary that brings things us up to date on the scene as it is today.

... This is how the information is controlled folks and it isnt a conspiracy by MI5 or the CIA... its the people who organise these conferences and their customers who want to control the flow of information so it spins the way they like it. Bear this in mind. It is a fact!

It's like scales dropping of your eyes when you realize what is actually going on isn't it? To realize that the disinformation effort is largely a symptom of the UFO/paranormal community ITSELF and not the work of some shadowy outside agency is disheartening isn't it? While it is a documented fact beyond all denial that government and military agencies have monitored, infiltrated, and controlled many UFO study groups since the early 50s, not all "disinformation" comes from them. Unscrupulous researchers, con-men, and well meaning but naive true believers have been doing a great job on their own.

I am happy to do an interview with anyone... who is Mr Ryan?

I was referring to Project Camelot's Bill Ryan. Since Project Camelot prides itself on controversial subjects an interview with you should be exactly what they are looking for ... one would think anyway. What about it Bill or Kerry?

trainedobserver

12-22-2009, 04:40 PM

For some people nothing will ever be proof of something, bye bye :naughty:
you don't even seem to care to give an explanation why you act like this. Yawn DP
I would suggest to find out for yourself, get in an airplane with your camera and see for yourself.

Good job on that one Soulcrafter. I really think the interchange you had with that poster typifies the "true believer" syndrome. Nothing will persuade a person with true believer syndrome. Even a real crop circle making pilot explaining the phenomena of the 'suddenly appearing' circle with tremendous examples! Amazing and a bit scary isn't it? You just have to laugh, well 'cause crying looks so girlie! :original:

TRANCOSO

12-22-2009, 04:49 PM

For some people nothing will ever be proof of something, bye bye
you don't even seem to care to give an explanation why you act like this. Yawn DP
I would suggest to find out for yourself, get in an airplane with your camera and see for yourself. if this...
One fine day an RAF jet flew over Stonehenge. It happened to be a favourite spot of the pilot, so he looked down & saw everything was normal.
45 minutes later, approaching from the opposite direction, the pilot noticed something had changed in the landscape.
To his astonishment he saw a huge - as in HUGE - crop formation had appeared, now known as the (first) Julia Circle.

I'm not gonna do your homework for you, but being the expert you pretend to be, you undoubtedly know exactly what I'm talking about.
Mind you, we have here a trained observer (sic), a RAF jetfighter pilot, a 45 minute time interval & a HUGE & complex formation, that - on paper - can only be drawn by a computer.... is what you've read & you than come up with a bunch of random pictures, which have absolutely nothing to do with the Julia Circle at Stonehenge, or anything else I'm refering to, you are either totally self-absorbed, or you have an extremely short memory spam and immidiatly forget what you've read.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 05:11 PM

That's the 2nd time you approach me with that kind of language.
In the future i'll ignore your posts and i reported you for the use of your language. bye bye

TRANCOSO

12-22-2009, 05:36 PM

That's the 2nd time you approach me with that kind of language.
... i reported you for the use of your language. bye bye Hopefully that will draw the attention of the moderators towards this thread.
I think that having a sincere opinion on a topic - crop circles, in this case - is something completely different as spreading disinfo & utter BS.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

Jonah

12-22-2009, 05:49 PM

Céline

12-22-2009, 06:04 PM

Hopefully that will draw the attention of the moderators towards this thread.
I think that having a sincere opinion on a topic - crop circles, in this case - is something completely different as spreading disinfo & utter BS.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

Distorting someones name...to reflect your own personal negative emotions ..is not a good thing...

Love... please.

TRANCOSO

12-22-2009, 06:44 PM

truthseekers

12-22-2009, 07:07 PM

if this...
... is what you've read & you than come up with a bunch of random pictures, which have absolutely nothing to do with the Julia Circle at Stonehenge, or anything else I'm refering to, you are either totally self-absorbed, or you have an extremely short memory spam and immidiatly forget what you've read.

-- MOD EDIT -- INSULT REMOVED --

Who wrote this... their facts are totally wrong. It wasnt a Royal Air Force jet it was a civilian private light aircraft which took off from Thruxton airfield. You see how things get twisted and exaggerated. Besides if it were a jet he would be flying so fast it would have been even more unlikely he would have seen it. As it happens this is exactly the story i feature in my youtube explaination of crop circles appearing aparently in 15 minutes, which doesnt happen. I have had 3 of my circles "appear" when they werent there earlier so say the witnesses.

The bottom line is that if loads of witnesses come forward to say circles appear out of the blue like this we are going to have to pay to do every formation and film ever one to prove 100% that these people are either nuts/lying/or didnt see the formation.

You may not know this but many people have come forward to say they saw formations appear in front of them. Its a new craze. However it is totally not true and there must be other reasons for why people are saying this. I know of one pilot for instance who has started saying he saw a circle appear after flying over a blank field because he is a sociopath and quite a nasty dangerous man (killed one guy, injured a few others - been prosecuted for this too). The best reason i think he is saying it now is because he illegally flies people over crop circles for profit, uninsured and breaking the commerical flying ban use of microlights! He wants the story to permiate the community so people want to talk to him and come fly with him and spend money in his unlicensed cafe. Its all about money... plain and simple. Why do people think that people are not beyond lies to get what they want. We dont live in a perfect world I am afraid to say.

Take for another example 2 people I investigated when I was a UFO hunter. They had faked UFO footage in a studio. I uncovered this by video analysis and got them to admit to it. However this didnt stop one major UFO conference organiser putting the one gentleman up on stage knowing the footage was faked. When I went COUGH COUGH he pulled him off future stage appearances... or so I thought. Six months down the line, he was back on stage again with the same organiser.

How do you battle rubbish like that. It is demoralising to see that people in position which you expect to be trustworthy and above reproach are really just on the lookout for a great sounding story. Screw the truth... its just about hype. Apply this to circles and the war that is waged against circlemakers and you have your answers! Its just about circle hype and hysteria... which is more the reason why I point out this RAF jet info. Once people start hyping up info and making stories bigger and bigger then things get out of control, which is exactly what the crop circle subject is. A bunch of hyped up liars like Doctors and Professors who faked their credentials to get listened to and wannabe believers who are prepared to do anything it takes to prove circlemakers are wrong. Go figure.

truthseekers

12-22-2009, 07:10 PM

Jonah, Im a very 'cheerful' person, but I get very aggitated when I smell trolls.

I'm always open for well documented statements opinions on a subject, but in this case I just notice 2 persons throwing in a lot of blunt statements.
The 'Matthew' video has as much scientific value as the Nat. Geo. documentary. None.

The crop formation discussion is not about what's obviously man made, it's about that which cannot be explained.

I've often been to Wiltshire, saw very complex formation appear in broad daylight with only a one hour interval, no tracks to be seen & a pattern only vissible from the air.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver make a mockery of the crop circle subject & that really pisses me off.

The forum is not meant for (big time) BS posts. At least, that's my opinion.

(I'm not hiding behind an anonymous avatar. Anybody who wants to know what TRANCOSO's real name is - who I am - can find me at www.ikgeloofalles.nl - as I've already posted before in a seperate thread.)

Sorry, i just dont believe you. You are most probably part of the "lets lie to damn the ******* circlemakers" brigade. Sorry to be blunt but circles dont appear in broad daylight. Its just that simple.

If so, please oh pretty please tell me which one you saw that formed infront of you. I really am all ears on this. Go ahead make my day. I cant wait to tell the circlemakers who created it that apparently they are all mentally ill and deluding themselves that they were out at night creating it!

Seriously though dude. This isnt funny hearing people saying this stuff.

Re: National geo and other documentaries. What you maybe dont realise is that journlists come along and they basically put their cards down on the table with researchers and tell them what they intend doing. This causes researchers to say "If your going to film or speak to circlemakers we wont give you an interview". Which is why now a lot of docu makers dont say who they are working with because researchers just pull tantrums and pull out. However journalists arent interested in b******t they want the inside story. So they speak to everyone, get the juicy angles and play one side off against the other for entertainment purposes. However they will usually come down more favourably on the side they know is telling the truth. So after speaing to both sides which side usually wins the truth argument??? Well circlemakers every time! The only time you see "circles cant be made by people" put forward in a docu is when the docu makers have a bias agenda or believers making those documentaries, orthey are codus made by crop circle lovers like Suzanne Taylor (grrr). National Geo arent in the business of siding with the loonies of the world... and the arguments given by researchers are easily washed away with demonstrations with circlemakers making circles.

One journalist this year gave us a list of things the researchers said we couldnt create. So we ticked everything off on their list by creating those effects in front of the cameras. No lengthy set ups either, we were being challenged to do it - so we did it with no questions asked, bosh bosh... theres your circles with those effects present. You see the difference is that we as circlemakers have factual things we can do and show. Researchers make claims. thats the difference. We actually go out and show what we can do. Thats fact. Journalists can see the difference. Now we cant win against people who want to make up wild stories that cannot be disproved but it just goes to show how far the believer community will go.

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 07:19 PM

If so, please oh pretty please tell me which one you saw that formed infront of you. I really am all ears on this. Go ahead make my day.
That makes 2 of us and i'm pretty sure others are on the edge of their seat now...

truthseekers

12-22-2009, 07:35 PM

Well it's nice to see everyone playing nice today....

DIs info or not.... I'm pretty sure members such as yourselves should be able to understand that you should never believe what any one person tells you... That is why we have our own discernment.... this is a forum with people who have certain views/opinions..... it's up to you to decide what you want to believe...

Indeed and if you watch my videos I have said we as circlemakers are nothing special, anyone can do what we do... and we invite people to try. Then and only then will people have the final answers for themselves. Dont just listen to my words and believe or disbelieve me, have a go and find out the truth.

Its very simple to create a crop circle. If you have researchers then turn up and come out with the normal "it cant be made by people" stuff, you have your answers. Then you will have a revelation about how the whole subject works. It will even teach you a bit about human nature and how this could **possibly** be applied to other areas of research and life in general.

I have always said crop circles is a great training ground for a keen paranormal researcher in order for them to to know a truth, then see that truth dissolved and see how others will not believe you now have the answers and carry on in blind ignorance of what is really going on. To experience that for ones self if truly shocking and liberating at the same time. I suggest people try it. It makes you a better researcher with a lot more discernment.

However I still maintain that crop circles made by people do attract real paranormal phenomena. So prepare yourself because when you learn this and try to tell people this, they really have a hard time with this info.

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 07:40 PM

Im a very 'cheerful' person, but I get very aggitated when I smell trolls.

Yes, we have seen the proof of that.

I'm always open for well documented statements opinions on a subject, but in this case I just notice 2 persons throwing in a lot of blunt statements.

Blunt statements, maybe to you it is. And truth for others, no need to get personal for that reason.

The 'Matthew' video has as much scientific value as the Nat. Geo. documentary. None.

Have you actually watched the whole documentary or just the first 10 minutes?

The crop formation discussion is not about what's obviously man made, it's about that which cannot be explained.

I'm pretty sure it's been explained/demonstrated many times but either people don't want to watch/listen or they just can't handle the truth.

I've often been to Wiltshire, saw very complex formation appear in broad daylight with only a one hour interval, no tracks to be seen & a pattern only vissible from the air.

A littlle more detail would be welcome. Like what formation, date, location and what kind of crop.

Both Soulcrafter & Trainedobserver make a mockery of the crop circle subject & that really pisses me off.

I'ts not mockery, it's common sense.

The forum is not meant for (big time) BS posts. At least, that's my opinion.

That's not for you to judge, they have mods for this.

I'm not hiding behind an anonymous avatar

I'm not hiding either, actually i'm well known in the CC community on both sides. And i like to have some privacy on forums.

www.ikgeloofalles.nl Translates into www.i believe everything.nl

That's obvious.

truthseekers

12-22-2009, 07:40 PM

That makes 2 of us and i'm pretty sure others are on the edge of their seat now...

Well every year I say to researchers "tell us which ones are man made then" and they never give us a comprehesive list. They fail to do so.

This is odd behaviour because most researchers will boldly claim they know which circles are man made and can clearly tell... so why not say then. This is always fishy. Try asking circles researchers this question and see how they squirm. Its quite an interesting reaction usually which may end up with them becoming very quickly paranoid and wanting to know why you want to know and who are you working with and do you know circlemakers and quite often gets the "I AM NOT BEING TESTED BY YOU" reaction.

I dont make this stuff up by the way. Try it... see where it gets you. Perfectly reasonable and innocent question and it really does peel back the skin to reveal the researcher underneath.

Note to others reading:
I will ask people keep their emotions down as this is a very emotional subject and quickly gets out of hand. I have seen peoples reactions to me escelate into everything up to actual physical violence so I know how heated the debate can be but I am asking for some calm if we are to discuss these things. Please by all means try and pull down what I am saying but do it with rational points and facts rather than feelings and un-backed statements. If you feel I have not backed up what i am saying please feel fre and I will go into more detail. This is probably the only good way forward with this.

chelmostef

12-22-2009, 07:54 PM

.

Red Card, your pointing it the wrong way.

If it was so easy to prove dont you think it would be in the main stream media? and excepted science? All this prove it stuff reminds me or myself having a row with my sister.. " Prove it?" we would shout at each other... Im not 7 anymore.. Thanks very much. If you have no constuctive information to give PLEASE give none. Thanks kindly.

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 08:06 PM

If it was so easy to prove dont you think it would be in the main stream media? and excepted science?

Is the mainstream media known for spreading the truth?

Where is the excepted science? Can you explain further?

Thanks in advance.

trainedobserver

12-22-2009, 08:16 PM

If you have no constuctive information to give PLEASE give none.

Here are four short videos chock full of constructive information and actual demonstrations you can watch. There is someone (truthseekers) posting to this thread who has been arrested and convicted under British law for making crop circles and he has offered to answer your questions. What more could you ask for?

Testing of Crop Circles ([URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDCx-MJKbp4)
How to work out a crop circle is man made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeNTm7rn-_s)
The science and "experts" exposed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKc1H8h3wwA)
Crop Circles being made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAQ-d07HlE)

chelmostef

12-22-2009, 10:05 PM

Here are four short videos chock full of constructive information and actual demonstrations you can watch. There is someone (truthseekers) posting to this thread who has been arrested and convicted under British law for making crop circles and he has offered to answer your questions. What more could you ask for?

Testing of Crop Circles ([URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDCx-MJKbp4)
How to work out a crop circle is man made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeNTm7rn-_s)
The science and "experts" exposed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKc1H8h3wwA)
Crop Circles being made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEAQ-d07HlE)

Are you saying all crop circles are man made?

truthseekers

12-22-2009, 10:12 PM

There arent any I see that dont look like they couldnt be made by people. Theres nothing so complicated that it would be too hard.. so basically yes. However I can verify i know most of the UK circlemakers and do not know people from abroad... apart from a few who I have infrequent contact with. Seeing as I know every person doing them in the UK I know who does what. Its just part of being in the loop. I dont know who is doingh what overseas.

371

12-22-2009, 10:27 PM

Soulcrafter

12-22-2009, 10:36 PM

Yawn, here are the oneliners again...nite all ! :sleep_1:

371

12-22-2009, 10:44 PM

. Seeing as I know every person doing them in the UK I know who does what. Its just part of being in the loop..

Who made this?

http://www.eso-garden.com/images/uploads_bilder/baffling_crop_circles_equal_pi_1.jpg

Or this?

http://i37.tinypic.com/70e3dg.jpg

Names and details, please.... since you are in the LOOP.

chelmostef

12-22-2009, 10:47 PM

Hummm!

If Mathew Williams is speeking the truth.

1, Do the crop circle makers want to be acknowledged for the work they are producing, are they annoyed that a crop circle whistle blower has come out with the truth?

2, If what you say is true then there will be some pretty p****d of farmers who can start looking on the ground for the culpits?

3, The Dr's will also be annoyed for exposing them as frauds.

4, What part does the govenment have to play in all this? Are they helping to spread the disinformtion or supressing it? ( I mean dis-information in the context being that crop circles are man made?)

chelmostef

12-22-2009, 10:53 PM

Size of a euro pallet: 1200mm by 800mm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallet

The most common one I would say.

chelmostef

12-22-2009, 10:55 PM

Hasn't the wheat stopped growing when these circles are made?

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 12:11 AM

Who made this?

Names and details, please.... since you are in the LOOP.

The answer is people, the rest is up to you.

It doesn't work like that, you should have known that by now.
The arrogance of some people shees!

This is not what circlemakers do you know.
They might as well put their names near the formations.

It's art without the signature.
The rest is up for the people who admire them and see symbolism in them.

And IF we would say who made what are you gonna post the thousands of formations here and ask who, what and where? Think about it

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 12:12 AM

Hasn't the wheat stopped growing when these circles are made?

Depends on the type of crop and the age.
edit: and the weather conditions (soz late night here)

371

12-23-2009, 12:16 AM

The answer is people, the rest is up to you.

Wrong, MOST- but not all.

This guy says he knows everyone who has made every cropcircle in the UK. Okay, names is a stretch. Details then.

My point is- this guy is talking out is a$$ and he knows it. Wants to feel important. ARMCHAIR EXPERT.

_AgJFab94mM

truthseekers

12-23-2009, 12:46 AM

Who made this?

Or this?

Names and details, please.... since you are in the LOOP.

Right you know the score then seeing as your in the loop so much so you know what a silly question that is. What I will give you is yes I do know the two sets of teams that made those. The Pi one was created by an artist who doesnt do very much work per year. The 3d triangle was created by a artist who does a lot every year. Beyond that I am not giving you names and you know the reason why.

Or perhaps if you want to supply me with full details and sworn statement of your last criminal activity I might consider telling you in private more abou these circles, knowing that I could report you to the police in the same way you would probably love to report me to the police.

So how come you know that I am full of lies as fact. What magical information do you have which proves this. Apart from your opinion that humans cant make circles et al.

371

12-23-2009, 12:48 AM

:naughty:

OK.

NisCkxU544c

What do they mean? Since you know the artists.

truthseekers

12-23-2009, 12:50 AM

Wrong, MOST- but not all.

This guy says he knows everyone who has made every cropcircle in the UK. Okay, names is a stretch. Details then.

My point is- this guy is talking out is a$$ and he knows it. Wants to feel important. ARMCHAIR EXPERT.

Your quite the little expert arent you and rude to boot. Armchair expert he is not. I have seen the circles he has created and he is active each year. I think the only armchair expert is probably you im afraid to say.

We are here to answer your questions but if you are going to insist on taking the high ground on this when as far as I am aware you havent been on any TV or Radio shows or featured in books or magazines on this subject then why should we bow down to you telling us "fact" in this abusive manner?

371

12-23-2009, 01:01 AM

371

12-23-2009, 01:08 AM

OK- know what?

I'll take everything back, I said... just explain this to me:

What do they MEAN, and what are they FOR?

And don't give me the 'artistic expression' line...

THE eXchanger

12-23-2009, 02:21 AM

if someone will put 1's and, 2's etc., onto
the pictures

there are some of them, i can decode

Anchor

12-23-2009, 03:43 AM

....

Probably should be careful of what you disrespect next time.

Sorry to spoil your fun but this is NOT the place for this kind of conflict.

It is not the place for you to make insults either. I know I can't catch everyone who does it but I need as much help as I can get - not hindrance, and I dont want people fighting fire with fire here - it just makes things worse.

Yes people need to be polite. Just because some are not, that does not give you license to get the big guns out.

Please help by not furthering conflict.

A..

Northern Boy

12-23-2009, 04:14 AM

Thanks for stepping in Anchor you seemed rather nice in some of your posts Nikki maybe I was wrong about you . There is such thing as providing a civil answer without resorting to the disrespect of forum members and if you have the answer to the crop circles all you had to do was post it and that would have been enough . No need to let your temper or your emotions get the better of you because of a discussion that you were not even involved in

Northern Boy

12-23-2009, 04:32 AM

then I have nothing to lose it seems so I`ll stay to see if you can keep your short fuse in check

Northern Boy

12-23-2009, 04:37 AM

thankies back too you and don`t be afraid to take a shot at it yourself

Northern Boy

12-23-2009, 04:45 AM

Nik you just want to look like your in control here and think by telling me to move on that you may have some authority over me you don`t so understand that you jumped in on some one else`s post and posted stuff you then felt you needed to remove I don`t have to go any where now I`m prepared to leave it at that if you are but if you want to continue so will i the call is yours to make

Northern Boy

12-23-2009, 04:53 AM

I feel the same way my Friend

KNmULx6sMo4

THE eXchanger

12-23-2009, 05:30 AM

The SNOW CIRCLE ...
http://www.rense.com/general88/snowc.htm

modifying this entry into a chart

skysurfer

12-23-2009, 08:56 AM

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 11:19 AM

BREAKING NEWS......

My spies tell me that there's a new huge 130 metre snow formation in Holland in the field right next to the one you've all been discussing above and photos have been taken

The snags to verification of anything paranormal in the first event in my view are that the pictures don't show the full formation so hoaxers could have stepped into the scene and made the circles with either boards or some kind of roller.

That would be possible because if you note there are no isolated circles - they are all linked therefore each can be accessed from the other.

And the missing snow might merely be impacted snow - think of walking on soft snow.....nobody wonders who has stolen the snow from the footprints!

So if these new circles are well documented this case could make or break the idea of an anomalous origin - and make or break Nancy Talbott and the psychic guy Robbert who is surrounded by a lot of controversy and stories of fakery.

But don't assume my scepticism above rules out weird events - they happen for sure. But snow is a very revealing canvas so with good detective work these particular circles could take the subject forward - or melt it away like snow.

Thank you for posting this one. Yes the RVDB case has been debunked and proven fake from the beginning when he started taking pictures of the so called aliens which were paper cut out figures held in front of the camera.

http://www.grenswetenschap.nl/images/artikelfoto/Robbert-wapperwapper.jpg

And the 'mud men' photo's proven to be fakery also.

http://www.ufologie.net/pics/crophoevenvdb05.jpg

Same goes for the ufo photo's he took which are also on the blt site.

http://www.bltresearch.com/robbert/ufophotos.php

All this on the same site where they present the so called 'evidence' of genuine formations. Makes you wonder about the credibility of this science/research isn't it.

truthseekers

12-23-2009, 11:22 AM

OK- know what?

I'll take everything back, I said... just explain this to me:

What do they MEAN, and what are they FOR?

And don't give me the 'artistic expression' line...

The circles were started by Doug and Dave as a way to see if people would believe it was a Saucer had landed. It certainly did givethat impression to people. However it developed into a research effort which then went on to say that perhaps whirlwinds or plasma vortex had created the circles even Gaia theories. These days circlemakers are happy for people to believe what ever they want to believe but it is sad that the whole subject has been beset by researchers who are peddling books and theories to make some money when it is clear to those researchers people make circles. The interpretations those researchers put on circles are often nothing to do with the intention that was put in by the circlemakers.

What do the circles represent, well ask most circlemakers and they would probably tell you they create designs which reflect current news events or spiritual ideas that will excite the minds of the people who visit them. Not all circlemakers are spiritually minded but they will still draw upon a database of ideas that we all know and see as spiritual and adapt these ideas into easier to make circle designs. When I say easier, that doesnt mean easy to understand for you or the man in the streetbut to an accomplished artist and circlemaker easy for us to make.

Designs may be literal such as pyramids with all seeing eyes. When a design is this literal its hard not to get the message of what it means. However what is sometimes lost is whether these images are supposed to promote or denegrate the idea that is put forward in the design. Such as in the case of the pyramid it was done by someone who hates freemasonry and yet they did this design, which is then ambigious to the meaning. Its almost as if they should have drawn a line through the pyramid as its just giving credit to freemasons otherwise. Subtleties like issues over designs like this are something which few people ever get to hear about.

Most of the designs are just inspired ideas which come to the circlemakers when they are playing around on paper with things that work well or seem visually different. Where the inspiration comes from for what to do and the honing process which allows a design to take off if open to question. However we know as circlemakers that some design ideas have been put down only to see others out on the same night doing a similar design even though those circlemakers had not shared their info. Tis came to a spectacular head when two teams ended up working on similarish design in the same field on the same night and they were working close to each other without knowing. I have had inspiration to do designs which other people have been meditating on. This elads me to think the designs are sometimes "asked for" but is that by us person to person telepathy or is it that we are all connecting into a higher mind or group conciousness for all humanity or are we being infuenced from somewhere else or something else... perhaps down from aliens even. Nobody can be sure at this stage.

All we know is that every year the idea of creating deisgns for other people to enthuse over excites the circlemakers. The thought of getting some unusual events or synchronicities makes the prospect even more appealing.

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 11:24 AM

:naughty:

OK.

That's it? :trumpet:

---

Found this one the Snobama formation:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=454988982&albumID=689216&imageID=2975571

skysurfer

12-23-2009, 01:32 PM

I am not altogether satisfied he has been successfully debunked - just because somebody can photograph cut outs, doesn't mean they have done.

You've got to catch a faker at it to really prove your case.

And I know the existence of images like the ones claimed to be paranormally obtained is evidence for some of fakery but in the history of psychic research there are cases where psychic photos have matched existing ones, with no evidence of trickery.

In any case I have heard that there are subtle differences between existing photos and Robbert's claimed psychic ones.

This whole case very much needs Nancy Talbott and RVDB tackling all these fake allegations and refuting them strongly, if they can.

On the other hand Nancy has been a serious researcher for many years and I would be very surprised if she would have stayed with this case so long if there wasn't something substantial and paranormal, persuading her to stay with it.

PS I can't find the buttons to press to open the quick reply function. What's the difference between QR and this one?

trainedobserver

12-23-2009, 02:06 PM

OK- know what?

I'll take everything back, I said... just explain this to me:

What do they MEAN, and what are they FOR?

And don't give me the 'artistic expression' line...

If you would have taken the time to watch some of Matt's videos you would have those answers.

Modern crop circle making spawned from a couple of guys trying to 'recreate' or 'simulate' what used to be referred to as saucer nests or landing impressions. Being artists they introduced various other elements to the design. Being illegal the works were anonymous. Also taking credit for the art was thought to diminish the mystery and interest. Copy cats arose and produced their own circles. The mythos that the crop circles are in some way produced in some paranormal fashion rather than by human beings is perpetuated by the crop circle 'community' itself for various reasons.

While some may be designed to convey some sort of message a great deal of them are just interesting patterns and like a Rorschach blot can be interpreted in various ways.

The really sad thing here is this. Here you have at least two real crop circle makers (I'm not one of them) posting to this thread trying to give the honest to goodness truth about the phenomena. Multiple videos have been provided for review that explain all aspects of the phenomena (every question asked so far are answered in them), even how to detect that they are man made and the methods used to construct them. Yet ...they are not believed. It really is a sad/funny thing to watch happening.

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 02:14 PM

You've got to catch a faker at it to really prove your case.

He has been catched as a faker on dutch tv.
But sadly enough the show was kinda popular they kept inviting him.
Mainstream media, what else did you expect.

Look it up it's all over the internet.

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html

I suppose you don't understand dutch so get a translator and see for yourself.

http://www.skepsis.nl/wonderman.html
http://www.skepsis.nl/robbertvandenbroeke.html

18 threads full of evidence he is playing people's minds.
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/799978/1/25

As long as he doesn't sell video's etc people can't drag him into court for confession.

In fact there was a small article in the dutch newspapers where a farmer catched him and his father making circles at night but again the article never made the internet.
I got this from Nancy Talbott herself when i worked as webdesigner for the BLT site years ago.

A few years back the same occured with the so called psychic medium Jomanda.
Eventually she had to come out with the truth that she misled people in order to sell books.

trainedobserver

12-23-2009, 03:01 PM

He has been catched as a faker on dutch tv.
But sadly enough the show was kinda popular they kept inviting him.
Mainstream media, what else did you expect.
...

It isn't just the mainstream media that are not doing a good job at this. The UFO/Paranormal lecture/talk show circuit community isn't doing a good job of policing itself or its information either. Proven frauds and hoaxers often disappear for a short period of time just to resurface, their past indiscretions forgotten or overlooked.

People who do provide critical analysis of alleged witnesses or whistle-blowers are often slandered and ridiculed ... no matter what evidence they provide. One extremely good example of this is the site ufowatchdog.com whose author has abandoned the field due to the amount of push back he received. Some of the most outrageous hoaxes are documented and investigated in depth there.

I personally have become terribly discouraged by the proliferation of known frauds, hoaxers, and scam-artists in the field. Were it not for the conviction that I have in the reality of the UFO phenomena I would have given up on this business a long time ago.

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 03:09 PM

It isn't just the mainstream media that are not doing a good job at this. The UFO/Paranormal lecture/talk show circuit community isn't doing a good job of policing itself or its information either. Proven frauds and hoaxers often disappear for a short period of time just to resurface, their past indiscretions forgotten or overlooked.

People who do provide critical analysis of alleged witnesses or whistle-blowers are often slandered and ridiculed ... no matter what evidence they provide. One extremely good example of this is the site ufowatchdog.com whose author has abandoned the field due to the amount of push back he received. Some of the most outrageous hoaxes are documented and investigated in depth there.

I personally have become terribly discouraged by the proliferation of known frauds, hoaxers, and scam-artists in the field. Were it not for the conviction that I have in the reality of the UFO phenomena I would have given up on this business a long time ago.

Thx for your input Trainedobserver. What kept you interested in the UFO phenomena? Did you manage to hold on to some of the 'genuine' cases or some of your own experience in this field?

skysurfer

12-23-2009, 03:23 PM

He has been catched as a faker on dutch tv.
But sadly enough the show was kinda popular they kept inviting him.
Mainstream media, what else did you expect.

Look it up it's all over the internet.

http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-01/010606netherlands.html

I suppose you don't understand dutch so get a translator and see for yourself.

http://www.skepsis.nl/wonderman.html
http://www.skepsis.nl/robbertvandenbroeke.html

18 threads full of evidence he is playing people's minds.
http://forum.fok.nl/topic/799978/1/25

As long as he doesn't sell video's etc people can't drag him into court for confession.

In fact there was a small article in the dutch newspapers where a farmer catched him and his father making circles at night but again the article never made the internet.
I got this from Nancy Talbott herself when i worked as webdesigner for the BLT site years ago.

A few years back the same occured with the so called psychic medium Jomanda.
Eventually she had to come out with the truth that she misled people in order to sell books.

Thanks for the links Soulcrafter - I had seen most before but was able to get the drift even with the rubbish translation Google gives you!
Yes as I said, there are many questions to be answered about RVDB.

But this bit particularly interested me:
"In fact there was a small article in the dutch newspapers where a farmer catched him and his father making circles at night but again the article never made the internet.
I got this from Nancy Talbott herself when i worked as webdesigner for the BLT site years ago."

Don't suppose anyone has a photo of this article? Or the name of the newspaper? If it was true surely somebody would have followed it up by now?

Presumably you are saying Nancy Talbott knew of this allegation but believed it was inaccurate - or are you saying she knew they were hoaxers?
Please tell us why you left as her web designer and any background in relation to the RVDB case. Thanks

trainedobserver

12-23-2009, 03:24 PM

Thx for your input Trainedobserver. What kept you interested in the UFO phenomena? Did you manage to hold on to some of the 'genuine' cases or some of your own experience in this field?

Richard Dolan's and Jacques Vallee's work have kept me interested and given me some ...hope if you will. I've never seen a UFO myself or had any real 'experience' myself.

I think the Allagash Abductions and the Rendlesham Forest incident, among others, are genuine. What is really going on in even the strongest cases is really an unknown though.

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 03:36 PM

Don't suppose anyone has a photo of this article? Or the name of the newspaper? If it was true surely somebody would have followed it up by now?

I can only tell what Nancy T. told me back then.
I worked about 6 months or so for her and after she treated me in a quite nasty way i decided to quit working for her.

Presumably you are saying Nancy Talbott knew of this allegation but believed it was inaccurate - or are you saying she knew they were hoaxers?
Please tell us why you left as her web designer and any background in relation to the RVDB case.

She knew about this allegation and didn't stated what she thought about it.
It was just mentioned while we were on the phone talking about webdesign business.

I don't remember if she said the name and the date of the newspaperarticle and i don't think she would give it to me if i mailed her now to ask what the name was and when it was published.

Surely the article would still exist in the archives of the newspaper.

I hope this answer is satisfying to you. I'll try via via to get a hold of the name and date of the article.

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 03:50 PM

Richard Dolan's and Jacques Vallee's work have kept me interested and given me some ...hope if you will. I've never seen a UFO myself or had any real 'experience' myself.

I think the Allagash Abductions and the Rendlesham Forest incident, among others, are genuine. What is really going on in even the strongest cases is really an unknown though.

I've not really researched the cases you named, surely i've heard about them.
I've had one UFO encounter which was documented by me and another witness in 2005. Maybe i'll post it one day. I've had a few weird experiences but i can't surely tell what it exactly was. Experiencing stuff doesn't always mean you are able to understand and explain what really happened.

skysurfer

12-23-2009, 03:58 PM

Thanks so much Soulcrafter. The name of the newspaper and a date would be very useful in chasing this one up.

trainedobserver

12-23-2009, 04:31 PM

I've not really researched the cases you named, surely i've heard about them.
I've had one UFO encounter which was documented by me and another witness in 2005. Maybe i'll post it one day. I've had a few weird experiences but i can't surely tell what it exactly was. Experiencing stuff doesn't always mean you are able to understand and explain what really happened.

I would certainly be interested in hearing about your sighting. You're right about experiencing things though. It is compounded by the fact that we cannot really experience anything directly (we are insulated/isolated by our senses and brain/mind system) we are only left with whatever version of our sensory input that our individual brains choose to manifest in the mind. That is why two people can witness the same event and come away with totally different experiences.

On a side note, I once came out of the house at five in the morning to pick up the paper. I had been reading about a triangle UFO flap the day before. As I looked up into the dark morning sky I saw a massive triangular formation of lights slowly making its way over the street toward me. I froze like a deer in headlights. For several seconds I was completely astonished. An amazing and delightful sensation. Then several of the lights broke formation and returned to it. I noticed that neither line of lights were perfectly aligned. As the formation passed directly overhead I realized what it was. A flight of birds whose bellies were reflecting the rising sun. I chuckled, snatched up the paper, and went back in the house. (please be aware that I AM NOT saying that other triangles of lights someone else may have seen were birds as well)

The most compelling evidence for UFOs, in my opinion, is the mountain of genuine FOIA documents that indicate the governments extreme interest in the subject and their efforts to control information about UFOs at all costs.

Crop circles ... I think the government had those sussed out some time ago seeing as they happily prosecute the true circle makers. Their interest or involvement in circles can only be seen as another effort to divert attention from genuine UFO phenomena ... in my opinion of course. Your mileage may vary.

This thread about snow and crop circles has me wanting to attempt to construct one myself. However, as I live in the U.S. where every other person is packing heat, and most certainly farmers are, and where people are shot and killed over smaller things than trampling someones crops, I am shall we say ... feeling a bit inhibited from doing so.

PEACE, LOVE, and all that jazz people!

371

12-23-2009, 05:52 PM

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 06:02 PM

Thanks for your overview, which relates to most crop circles in general.

I wasn't clear enough in my post, I meant those specific CCs that I posted pics of. Man made wasn't what I was talking about. Nevermind though. What's done is done.

BTW- I am the one was out of line, NOT nykki. Funny though that no one had the guts to accept her challenge. But that is over now, and I will drop it.

I am done with this thread, in the spirit of ending conflict within it.

I take nothing back.

Hang on, did we miss something?
Don't be upset please.
Reform your question maybe?

You have to understand giving names won't solve anything.
That is not where the problem is.

So come back, don't make me beg here ;)

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 06:06 PM

@ 371 Wrong, MOST- but not all.

Which ones do you think are genuine?
The 2 formations you posted?

This guy says he knows everyone who has made every cropcircle in the UK. Okay, names is a stretch. Details then.

What details will make you satisfied?

My point is- this guy is talking out is a$$ and he knows it. Wants to feel important. ARMCHAIR EXPERT.

Prove him otherwise then, go on.

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 06:09 PM

Edit by Nykki

This ain't making it easier. Why did you re-edit (deleted) your post?
Have you changed your mind? If so, for what reason?

Northern Boy

12-23-2009, 06:27 PM

Soulcrafter this was part of the original post that was deleted as you can see It appears to me to have been out of line with what the original topic that some members here were talking about so 371s explanation about Nicki not being out of line may be a bit exaggerated Or there would have been no reason to delete her posts

Originally Posted by Nikki
So, here's the BET. Your SOUL is on the Line HERE. You have to prove, some how that you know who and why these C.C. are made. You have 24 hours. Then I WILL SHOW YOU who made them and why. MY prize is your SOUL.
OR, simply bow out. The choice is yours. Write down what your choice is.

FYI, don't post your Picture on the net. (if you're going to be stupid)
Probably should be careful of what you disrespect next time.

371

12-23-2009, 06:30 PM

Stop.

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 06:34 PM

trainedobserver

12-23-2009, 06:35 PM

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 06:35 PM

Stop.

Stop what? Come on, the less words the less others will understand what we are discussing about.

371

12-23-2009, 06:40 PM

Soulcrafter

12-23-2009, 06:45 PM

Pretty simple answer when no MAN made those.

No one had the balls to take her up on her challenge, anyway.

Gosh, i don't feel like repeating myself over and over here.
Nikki her post looked quite off topic to me, i'm sure no one really was offended by her post.
There are other ways to make a statement or ask questions.

Just stop, please. End this here with me, and let it go.

Why do you keep coming back? I wonder...

THE eXchanger

12-23-2009, 08:47 PM

in the one, she said had 3 aspects,
we saw over 9 things in it,
and, it then expanded to 13 thingst

on the other one - again, we will ask

will someone help us, to do something simple

like put #'s on the circles

and, then, we will record a response

(if someone via telephone, can walk us through

how to record a movie, off our laptop)

and, how to store it,

and, how to upload it !!!

We think we have a very pivotal answer

we figured out part of windows movie maker

if we had, what we need - we could upload things ~ and, introduce you all

to something ~ we think is profound

(if there is someone in the miss/on area ~ that could come here,
and, teach us a few things ~ related to doing this
we've got a lot of stuff here ~ that could be shared)

thank you / susan

THE eXchanger

12-23-2009, 08:52 PM

in post # 111 - we offered, before challenged ~ and, we offered quite a few times
(no one, seems interested, in helping us)

and, in post #123
- we asked for what we needed, in order,
to give info to prove a theory

we already have 'filled in the blanks'

we are just tired, of giving people info privately

and, NEVER getting any thanks back !!!

so, tell me,
WHY is all the fighting going on ???

THE eXchanger

12-23-2009, 08:57 PM

Pretty simple answer when no MAN made those.
No one had the balls to take her up on her challenge, anyway.
Just stop, please. End this here with me, and let it go.

These, were NOT man-made, at least, not by earth men

We had balls, before she even posted :mfr_lol:

i would like to do a radio show on this ~ but, i need help

to assemble things ~ could someone help !!!

and, do
what we appealed to someone to do,
in post # 123

where we gave simple
1-3 4-6 to 7A
8a-9a - 10/11/12/13
11/10/9/8/7/6/5/4
3
2
1
instructions :mfr_lol:

We have worked on this theory, for over 33 years

AND, ASKED FOR PROOF - cause we didn't want to get SNOWED

(pardon the pun)

it was amasing when it showed up in the snow circles :)

We do NEED some help !!!

Where is the TEAM ???

TRANCOSO

12-24-2009, 04:11 PM

Nice one, Nykki, but as we've been told in this thread by at least 2 distinguished members of this forum, they are all man-made by a group of anonimous (invisible?) artists.
Never in the past 15 years have they been 'caught in the act', betrayed by jealous colleagues or otherwise exposed as the driving force behind this mystery.
Also, the $ 1.000.000 (one million!) reward by a Rockefeller Foundation, for anybody who is able to produce or copy a complex crop formation, in the middle of a pitchblack night, within a timeframe of 1 hour, is still available. I find that remarkable, to say the least, but perhaps the Lords of the Circles are a bunch of (bored) rich kids to whom a million $ is small change.

It would be nice if 'The Circlemaker(s)' could show us an image of a formation they're going to produce in the first week of June 2010, somewhere in Wiltshire. In that case we know on June 8, 2010, if their claims are true or false.

Perhaps Trainedobserver, who seems to be quite close to the Circle Lords, could pass on this request.

I wonder what excuse they're going to produce this time, for not responding to this challenge.

THE eXchanger

12-24-2009, 04:18 PM

YOU took it down, before, i actually printed it

or saved; the larger copy of it ???

if someone with some artistic flare

could label it - i could describe, what i am seeing !!!

YOU KNOW WHAT, i am going to call the webmaster
of the site, it is on, see if they will help me !!!

Northern Boy

12-25-2009, 12:38 AM

We called ourselves SMURFS before this years C.C. We always said we lived in the mushrooms. A Mushroom came up this year. With a Star Chart.
Anyways, your guys TC. I need to go to sleep. The world is going to be a different place when I get back up.

.

THE eXchanger

12-25-2009, 03:20 AM

.

PERIOD...a TYME of THE MONTH ???

CAN anyone help label up the circle, as requested ???

TRANCOSO

12-25-2009, 03:42 AM

...

371

12-25-2009, 03:45 AM

TRANCOSO

12-25-2009, 03:59 AM

Sorry, I misspelled the 'l'
www.cropcircleconnector.com/2009/southfield2/southfield2009b.html should do the trick.

371

12-25-2009, 04:03 AM

TRANCOSO

12-25-2009, 04:11 AM

Try again

371

12-25-2009, 04:25 AM

Ok, right pic this time. Cool.

Disregard all info on that site though. It is BS.

Soulcrafter

12-26-2009, 07:21 PM

What happened to his thread?
All i see is "." & "try again" and other off topic posts.
I guess this is the end of the discussion then.
You guys certainly know how to hijack threads with discussions you don't seem to like. Not a nice to do isn't it?
I rest my case, i don't see the point in replying anymore in this thread.

Boober

12-26-2009, 07:34 PM

Snow crop circles huh. Is this a new phenomenon? They seem kind of sloppy , but I dont see any tracks.

THE eXchanger

12-26-2009, 08:36 PM

Comments by Colin Andrews
From the Andrews Archives
Dec 22, 2009.

The report above states that this is the "Biggest snow circle ever" - actually this is
not true. The largest was reported and photographed outside MIT in Boston.
Hundreds of circles and rings along with appendages were witnessed by many
people including students in the MIT buildings. The designs stretched over a
quarter mile across the Charles River and were formed in a light snow cover which
had fallen on the frozen river. I have photographs in the library.

There are seven other snow circle reports covering the years 1996-7-8 and 2003
and reported in The Netherlands, USA, Germany, USA, England and Afghanistan.

It is often difficult to be sure if snow circles are the same phenomenon as crop
circles. Sometimes they are melted, other times not but in this recent case one
can see striking similarities by design and even concentric rings normally
associated with the so called stomping boards used by people who make many of
them.

This is another very important case involving the alleged medium Robbert van den
Broeke. This young man has frequently claimed to be aware a crop circle is going
to form or a UFO is going to show up and they have done. In all these cases there
is no half way conclusion. He is either a very important witness or his claims and
the events that occur around him are deceptions - one might say also modern
magic. UFO researcher Nancy Tabott of BLT has publicly stated she believes he
is genuine.

http://www.colinandrews.net/SnowCircles-Netherlands2009.html

new report, will be up
on the original site - within days

we just got told to detail our findings,
and, they will connect it,
to their findings :)

TRANCOSO

12-26-2009, 08:38 PM

I rest my case, i don't see the point in replying anymore in this thread.

:crybaby:

THE eXchanger

12-26-2009, 09:10 PM

They asked me to wait,
til they put out their report,
so, i have all the measurement sizes, etc.,
and, they granted me access to the photographs, too
they are going at it, from a technical standpoint,
where, my take on it, is spiritual/and, technical
(i discovered something else by waiting,
and, discovered an infinite loop in it)
and, it relates to an important stone on earth :)
i will create mine, in a youtube video

Boober

12-26-2009, 09:13 PM

THE eXchanger

12-26-2009, 09:17 PM

part of the 9D earth world, is in the hollow part,
hmmm~ The Road to Agartha,
it leads to The Grand Central Sun, of earth

The largest circle at the top
and, the smallest circle at the bottom
are, the separation of
THE ORiGiNAL SPARK
(along with 12 other aspects)
does NOT the alchemical sign of the run
have a round circle with a dot, in the centre ;)
for the sol or sun

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemical_symbol

it is a good idea, to acquaint yourself with these symbols ;)

truthseekers

12-27-2009, 06:35 AM

So, here's the BET. Your SOUL is on the Line HERE. You have to prove, some how that you know who and why these C.C. are made. You have 24 hours. Then I WILL SHOW YOU who made them and why. MY prize is your SOUL.
OR, simply bow out. The choice is yours. Write down what your choice is.

That's pretty ridiculous. Besides no one is going to admit to committing the crime of creating an illegal crop circle.

This is very silly. Besides we often have people freak out at us and DEMAND in shouty screamy we are going to hit you in the face with a cricket bat type ways that MUST SHOW and WILL COMPLY and it seems as I have tried to say many times before that when you say your a circlemaker you get reactions like this.

People hate circlemakers. Its that simple. All we are seeing here is a direct classic - i repeat classic- example of how people get over zealous on this subject. People always try to get us to admit to doing certain circles. Why because they want to report us to the police. The one and only time I trusted people like this was the one and only time I got arrested.

People who believe crop circles are made by Aliens are basically quite uninformed and I would stretch to even being rude by saying dumb. So what happens when you trust a dumb person with anything, they either screw it up or they cant keep secrets for sure. How do dumb people act, well usually when they dont get their own way they freak out and start flailing their arms, punching each other and basically acting up in any way possible.

This is one reason i dont watch soap operas like Eastenders that we get in the UK. Its all based on negative/bad behaviour where hes jealous of her, blam blam blam, screams shouts tantrums. People get like this over crop circles trust me. When I start to see this behaviour rearing its ugly head it just makes me want to stick my head im my hands. Its quite depressing really because its such a typical form of behaviour and ive witnessed it so many times regarding this subject.

What is basically boils down to is people with no knowledge of a subject apart from a misinformed opinion laying the law down on what is and what is not with those people who actually do know a lot about a subject. Fascistic I call it. It is not based on what is true or right but who can shout louder and be the bigger bully.

Ive met people who claim to be love and light and when it comes to circlemakers say they want us dead! Really!!!!!

People who claim to be interested in truth and want answers and are open midned are sometimes the very same people who cannot take the truth and are very closed minded and nasty.

This is why I say to people if you really want to learn the truth about the way the paranormal subjects work make some crop circles, fold your arms, keep your mouth shut and then see what happens. Then when you know the truth... start telling people you made circles and see how people turn on you. It can teach everyone a lot about how this subject works.

Now stating this as a fact will undoubtedly make some people angry and this is what gets people into defensive camps which become entrenched so that people just dont want to listen any more.

Welcome to the real world of crop circles. Thats all I can say.

truthseekers

12-27-2009, 06:47 AM

That's pretty ridiculous. Besides no one is going to admit to committing the crime of creating an illegal crop circle.

Pretty simple answer when no MAN made those.

No one had the balls to take her up on her challenge, anyway.

Just stop, please. End this here with me, and let it go.

I tried hard for years to educate the researchers that men were making circles. They wouldnt listen. I started taking people out and also the final thing was going to be an experiment whereby we would make a circle and people who said they would keep it secret would help verfiy we had given them details later they just thought it better to inform the police and have us arrested. Rubbish out the experiment and screw us all to the wall. If it was legal to stone us we would probably be dead right now! Thats why people make circles in secret because people with close minds just dont get it and get very upset when they find out the truth.

Lets stone Santa Claus too and the Easter Bunny and whos that Jesus fellow. Do you understand where I am coming from? People who demand circlemakers own up arent enjoying the circles anymore, arent looking at the wonder they bring and are just obsessing on vengeance against human circlemakers... which to me seem to be missing the point.

Why should we be interested in a challenge from people from the internet anyhow. Its like people are so self obsessed and self important that they feel that a few idle words typed into a keyboard are going to make all circlemakers in wintertime spring out of the woodwork and into action to rise to a challenge based upon what... who is this person making the challenge... how many circles have they visited and researched. What is their real researcher name and do I know them and will the challnge set be a fair one and double blind test procedures involved to make it a real test of the researchers ability to tell a real crop circle as well as our ability to make them?

The point is that whereas we are real circlemakers and we have done a lot of work to get to that point, sorry to be blunt about this but **who are you**. If you are serious about a challenge and want to do it correctly then you should be thinking about putting up some money to pay a farmer for the use of a field in the summer. It costs about £500 and we will need independent referees to keep the details of which field will be hired secret and to hold details of the circle we create to be revealled later on.

I have accepted many challenges over the years already, I dont need to hear people go "you prove nothing I challenge you." Been there done it flown around the world to do it, got the T shirt. What is actually different about your challenge. Which aspects of **can we make circles** is it going to change?

This is usually just about the point where people so really quiet... because they arent going to pay money to be part of a real experiment. They just want to sound big and clever and get us to admit to which illegal circles we created so they can report this to Nancy Talbott and co or some other nutters out there and try to get some police activity.

Anyhow I think you get the point. Lets see if people can put their money where their mouths are. Ive been doing this 20 years any nobody from the internet has ever come back to me on this. I am not expecting any change to that now. Surprise me though ;-) Please...:roll1:

truthseekers

12-27-2009, 06:56 AM

part of the 9D earth world, is in the hollow part,
hmmm~ The Road to Agartha,
it leads to The Grand Central Sun, of earth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alchemical_symbol

it is a good idea, to acquaint yourself with these symbols ;)

Sorry Exchanger I dont believe in a hollow earth. Im happy you do though. Is this really what you think though?

If something like that were to exist then it must be in a different dimension of reality.

Soulcrafter

12-27-2009, 11:26 AM

This is another very important case involving the alleged medium Robbert van den
Broeke. This young man has frequently claimed to be aware a crop circle is going
to form or a UFO is going to show up and they have done. In all these cases there
is no half way conclusion. He is either a very important witness or his claims and
the events that occur around him are deceptions - one might say also modern
magic.

Yes they are deceptions. Colin A. will put up the whole report soon with all the evidence of his frauds and fake ufo-alien-mudmen-ghost photography.

TRANCOSO

12-27-2009, 11:35 AM

It would be nice if 'The Circlemaker(s)' could show us an image of a formation they're going to produce in the first week of June 2010, somewhere in Wiltshire. In that case we know on June 8, 2010, if their claims are true or false.

Truthseekers, I quote myself here.
I think it's a fair request

Never in the past 15 years have they been 'caught in the act', betrayed by jealous colleagues or otherwise exposed as the driving force behind this mystery. Also, the $ 1.000.000 (one million!) reward by a Rockefeller Foundation, for anybody who is able to produce or copy a complex crop formation, in the middle of a pitchblack night, within a timeframe of 1 hour, is still available. I find that remarkable, to say the least, but perhaps the Lords of the Circles are a bunch of (bored) rich kids to whom a million $ is small change.

I'm more skeptic about the claim crop circles are manmade, then that they are made by aliens. There is little proof for both options, though. And please don't bore me with those YouTube vids where you see a couple of guys in a grainfield, because that's as convincing as Obama telling the world he wishes to reduce nuclear arms.

Last summer there was a HUGE manmade formation constructed in Holland ('The Catterpillar').
It took 80 people 2 days to make it.

Soulcrafter

12-27-2009, 12:08 PM

a song comes to my mind when i read Trancoso's posts.

Turn around
Look at what you see
In her face
The mirror of your dreams
Make believe I'm everywhere
Given in the light
Written on the pages
Is the answer to a never ending story...

There is little proof for both options, though
Why don't you keep an open mind then....

And please don't bore me
If something is boring it must be your replies.

Last summer there was a HUGE manmade formation constructed in Holland ('The Catterpillar').
It took 80 people 2 days to make it.

Circles have been made over 3 nights, so what's the point?
Criticising without understanding, that's what i call it :)

TRANCOSO

12-27-2009, 02:24 PM

Circles have been made over 3 nights, so what's the point?

'The Catterpillar' was made by 80 people!!!

If something is boring it must be your replies.

:sorry:

Criticising without understanding, that's what i call it
:roll1: :tongue2: :giljotiini:

Soulcrafter

12-27-2009, 02:53 PM

And then when you don't have something decent to reply you start acting like a 5 year old. :original:

THE eXchanger

12-27-2009, 03:18 PM

in Atlantis, in the 1st grand cycle
we took communication through crystals
in the crystal cave

today, that type of communication is NOT possible that way

there is NO doubt,
some of the crop circles,
were made by people,
however, even those who made them
utilised sacred geometry/symbols & mostly relations

surprisingly, most creative people
do NOT operate alone,
NOY just under their own power,
but, they open gates/or portals within themselves
and, allow in discarnate souls
who might be task companions (tc)
or essence twins (et)
or, even a TRAVC-a travelling companion,
which is a soul from another entity group,
within your own cadre, but NOT the same entity group,
that you belong too

and, they paint together

which eXplains, oft times
why a painter creates a master_piece
and, yet, he can NOT do the same type of piece twice

and/or a child - who just automatically can play a soph. piece of music

and/or a child - who can sing, yet most kids their age do NOT
have vocal chords developed enough, to do it, yet they do

as, a child, apparently i could sing, and,
people would say, she sings like an angel
(so, who did i allow in, to sing through me ???)

it is always through the eXpression of an artisan
in role, in essence, and/or through the artisans they allow
to come in, and, to work through

we are much more 'spirited',
than, most of us, likely know

so many symbols, have had their force/and, their power inverted

however, 80% of the communication done in this world,
is NOT done, through the power of fingertips,
nor, through the medium of voice

it is the seen/and, the unseen /or the missed !

just cause you don't see something, does NOT mean, that it isn't there

or, that someone, can see things, others miss !!!

TRANCOSO

12-27-2009, 04:21 PM

... you start acting like a 5 year old

Excuse me? :shocked:
I AM a 5 year old! :old:

THE eXchanger

12-27-2009, 05:37 PM

Excuse me? :shocked:
I AM a 5 year old! :old:

me too ;)

Soulcrafter

12-27-2009, 08:17 PM

me too ;)
It shows for you both.:roftl:

sunny D

12-29-2009, 01:24 PM

Last summer there was a HUGE manmade formation constructed in Holland ('The Catterpillar').
It took 80 people 2 days to make it.

IMHO it was made over night with 54 people:mfr_omg::thumb_yello: for sure, echt helemaal waar....:naughty:

THE eXchanger

12-29-2009, 02:31 PM

Yes they are deceptions. Colin A. will put up the whole report soon with all the evidence of his frauds and fake ufo-alien-mudmen-ghost photography.

my interest is more in swallow's nest - 2005
had 3 + core
and, the swallow's nests of 6 + core, then 12 + core
(the one that got added onto over night)

we walked in the first one in 2005,
with a couple of people, from the UK,
along with sal, and, myself.

and, the swallow's nest had stones left at the core of it
which, i took them, and, brought them home

one of them
looks like the 'aline face' crop circle
and, the rocks, had ususal markings
and, energies on them

the energies present in that group circle ~ were NOT of this world

some where, i have a tape, we recorded while we walked in it

(i'll have to find that stuff)

THE eXchanger

12-29-2009, 02:32 PM

agartha, is part of the new world
and, is NOT a 3D world

TRANCOSO

12-29-2009, 07:42 PM

IMHO it was made over night with 54 people for sure, echt helemaal waar....
Sorry, you're right.
But it wasn't done in the dark, they had lamps shining.
Besides, 54 people is still a lot.

The point I was tying to make is that supposedly all crop formations are man-made, but nobody ever got caught doing that.

Quote:
Never in the past 15 years have they been 'caught in the act', betrayed by jealous colleagues or otherwise exposed as the driving force behind this mystery. Also, the $ 1.000.000 (one million!) reward by a Rockefeller Foundation, for anybody who is able to produce or copy a complex crop formation, in the middle of a pitchblack night, within a timeframe of 1 hour, is still available. I find that remarkable, to say the least, but perhaps the Lords of the Circles are a bunch of (bored) rich kids to whom a million $ is small change.

I'd like to hear Soulcrafter's explaining the above, because untill now he has avoided this subject.
By the way, I saw your 'dessert formation' post.
Nice.

Soulcrafter

12-29-2009, 09:21 PM

I'd like to hear Soulcrafter's explaining the above, because untill now he has avoided this subject.

I'm done explaining...
Try to make a crop circle for yourself and see what is possible and what not. Have fun :) Don't mind being catched, nobody can see you and the farmers are sleeping. :original: Just make sure you are out of the field when the sun comes up.

Soulcrafter

12-29-2009, 09:26 PM

By the way, I saw your 'dessert formation' post.
Nice.

Here is another one:

The group D.A.ST. is an interdisciplinary collaboration between three artists: Danae Stratou, Sculptor, Alexandra Stratou, Industrial Designer, and Stella Constantinides, Architect. The group was formed in May 1995, based on our common desire to create an installation in the desert. The parameters that we had set for this project described a site specific work of such a scale that it would be experienced through walking. The site that was chosen is a flat expanse of sand that lies between the Red Sea and a body of mountains. The work covers an area of one hundred thousand square meters and involves the displacement of eight thousand cubic meters of sand. One hundred and seventy eight conical volumes form two interlocking logarithmic spirals that move out from a common center with a phase difference of one hundred and eighty degrees in the same direction of rotation. One spiral consists of incised cones, while the other of protruding ones; the incised cones are the result of the displacement of sand to create the protruding cones. The center, a one thousand two hundred cubic meters earthen vessel with a W section is the union of the positive and negative cone. It is filled with water to its rim so that the protruding cone in the center forms a tiny island at the level of the horizon.

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv337/goldenboy123/establish_picture.jpg

ON MARCH 7 1997, THE CONSTRUCTION OF "DESERT BREATH" WAS COMPLETED.
AT SAME MOMENT THE WORK WAS TURNED OVER TO THE FORCES OF NATURE,
TO BEGIN THE SLOW PROCESS OF ITS ABSORBITION,
BY THE LANDSCAPE THAT GAVE BIRTH TO IT.
THE SYSTEMATIC DOCUMENTATION OF THIS PROCESS
IS AS IMPORTANT TO "DESERT BREATH"
AS THE DISPLACEMENT OF SAND THAT WAS USED TO CREATE IT.

THE INSTALLATION BECOMES THROUGH ITS SLOW DISINTEGRATION,
AN INSTRUMENT TO MEASURE THE PASSAGE OF TIME.

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv337/goldenboy123/detail_2.jpg

http://i697.photobucket.com/albums/vv337/goldenboy123/detail_1.jpg

http://www.archipedia.org/landscape/desertbreath