Money of the Future - and how we can implement it - interesting proposal

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

just read this intriguing article by Charles Eisenstein (Reality Sandwich; Daniel Pinchbeck) ... Im no financial or economic expert, but there seems to be some substance to this...and it may not be overly idealistic....

"The Money of the Future...And how to implement it right now

The purpose of this currency is to be, initially, complementary to standard national currencies and eventually, in the event of economic meltdown, a replacement for them. Its design emphasizes the following features:
1. It can be implemented right now as an electronic currency, with modest programming resources. We don't need to sit around hoping for change. We can do this right now; and in fact, this currency will promote change.
2. It reverses the destructive characteristics of ordinary currency that foster polarization of wealth, greed, scarcity, and short-term thinking.
3. Its mechanics of issuance promotes positive trends in the larger economy (toward sustainability, fair trade, etc.)
4. It is a fully-backed, non-inflationary currency, and the money supply is self-regulating.
5. It has an organic built-in imperative to spread. Users have a strong incentive to bring in other users and businesses. ...."
http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/newmoney.php

Aside from this, Eisenstein seem to be a pretty sincere guy, allowing "pay what you want or dont" payments for the book he spent 10 years writing, "The Ascent Of Humanity"

Maybe this will inspire support, I would certainly buy into it if there were a critical mass of support for this. Is this too unrealistic, or is this worth getting behind?

[doodah]

Bummer. My vision of the future does not have money in it at all, and as I read about higher dimensional beings, they don't use money either. There's no point to money. It's supposed to be a medium of exchange, but you know the golden rule: who controls the gold makes the rules. As long as there is lust for power, money is a bad idea.

[arcora]

Bummer. My vision of the future does not have money in it at all, and as I read about higher dimensional beings, they don't use money either. There's no point to money. It's supposed to be a medium of exchange, but you know the golden rule: who controls the gold makes the rules. As long as there is lust for power, money is a bad idea.


If I recall correctly, Adam was punished by God and made to work for survival.

Perhaps the punishment will end someday.

[JesterTerrestrial]

Barter will be a major source of trading. Service to others will go along way. Take care of your families and friends and I'm sure we will be amazed how well we can all pull together as a team!

Interesting read...im taking a look now, thanks.:original:

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

Im not sure I understand either of your points. Are you guys both implying that theres no point in considering real 3-dimensional solutions to 3 dimansional problems? This IS the economy and currency forum, right?

Look guys, Im all for phase-shifting into a 4th or 5th dimensional light body and manifesting my reality instantly through conscious co-creation (not being sarcastic), but personally Im not planning on lying down in a field until we cross the Galactic Center. I gotta eat, and while we're here, maybe we can discuss possible short term solutions to what pretty much everyone agrees is some form of short term major global economic problem.


In any case, no disrespect intended, thanks for your replies.

[Suriel]

Although money is not required in higher civilizations due to the overwhelming unconditional love, we have a long way to get to that point. If we can find a way to integrate a money system that does not require interest on top of the currecy distribution, this may help.

Right now, our money system is developed to create debt to keep people working towards a downward spiral. Also, there is too much difficulty in finding work due to lack of trust. Many people also can't get work experience due to the fact that jobs require it. So that leaves out the average person trying to find a way to make money unless you love retail.

If you take out the competition, and equalize the distribution where there aren't different classes lower, middle or higher, you can distribute money to families to feed their children.

Keep in mind, I am no business expert. But if I were to create a new system it would involve a community localized government that would distribute money to each person or family for neccesities. I would also make it very easy for someone to get a job by allowing them to enter a paid training program in each category of interest. Everyone would get one wage that would be very fair to cover all expenses.

But of course, I like my other scenario:

Housing would be free and built by the community. No more rent or house payments. Free energy technology would eliminate power bills. Free energy cars or teleportation devices would elimiate dependency on oil or transportation expenses all together.

Biodomes for growing food would be integrated to families and single people, which would also be free.

That is my broad view on a future society. Of course, all greedy people and self service people would have to go elsewhere for these types of systems to work. Of course, if you eliminate the competetion for survival, the stress factor would not be there. That could make people happy.

But to get back to the question? There are some things that could be done to make things easier. But having a Federal Reserve owned by a few people is not the answer. It just takes good leaders and good government and good people. And the way things are going now, that is hard to do
when :darthvader: the Darkside is running things.

[arcora]

Im not sure I understand either of your points. Are you guys both implying that theres no point in considering real 3-dimensional solutions to 3 dimansional problems? This IS the economy and currency forum, right?

The time for a 3 dimensional solution to this 3 dimensional problem was 20 years ago.

[doodah]

Im not sure I understand either of your points. Are you guys both implying that theres no point in considering real 3-dimensional solutions to 3 dimansional problems? This IS the economy and currency forum, right?

Look guys, Im all for phase-shifting into a 4th or 5th dimensional light body and manifesting my reality instantly through conscious co-creation (not being sarcastic), but personally Im not planning on lying down in a field until we cross the Galactic Center. I gotta eat, and while we're here, maybe we can discuss possible short term solutions to what pretty much everyone agrees is some form of short term major global economic problem.

In any case, no disrespect intended, thanks for your replies.

Sorry. I apologize. I didn't realize I was in the Economy and Currency forum. I have a tendency to take far leaps, while I see that you are seriously working upclose on transitional measures. I have no ideas on this subject other than I prefer to live by barter, and do so at every opportunity in my own life. If we must continue having money, please come up with an equitable solution, is all I ask!

Peace, and no disrespect intended, either.

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

Doodah..much respect.

I'm with you guys 100% on bartering, but like you said, this is simply a transitional idea. It doesnt seem feasible for everyone to switch over to the barter system , not while a lot of people have money tied up in 401k's mortgages, credit card debt, etc. Ive been preparing for a full US econonmy crash, but something like the Terra idea might be a little buffer from an all-out Black Friday scenario.

Thanks for your respect, I love this forum more and more.

"Create your community. Be good to each other. And do not look outside yourself for the leader. This could be a good time! "......."At this time in history, we are to take nothing personally. Least of all, ourselves". .."The time of the lone wolf is over."
—The Elders Oraibi
Arizona Hopi Nation

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

getting from A to B...another transitional idea....

My girlfriend and I are just finishing up remodeling a tiny little place where we are opening a bookstore.

We hope to carry some alternative information, as well as a reference section; (organic gardening, medicinal plants etc). Our idea is to identify a few local causes(afterschool programs for local kids, buying biodegradable bags for all the stores in town, cleaning up the park, paying for a lifeguard on the beach, picking up litter on the road, etc), and list them on a specially printed receipt, with checkboxes by each one. when they purchase an item in the store, the customer would check the local cause that appealed to them.

We would then take 25% of the profit from each sale and put it into a fund for each cause, as per each customers wishes.
The idea is that maybe it can would get the customers more involved and conscious about the causes, more than just ..."oh well 20% goes to some charity"

With most charities (as most of you probably know), 80% goes to administrative and never reaches the actual intended recipients.

Anyway, thats the idea. We'll see if it works or if its just a dismal failure, but I have a gut feeling that even the sheeple are starting to sense that its time for a spiritual overhaul.

[doodah]

Hi, I'm back again. I was curious to see what has transpired here. I like your civic ideas a lot and hope once you start it, they will catch on and other merchants will pick them up. I hope you get lots of news coverage about this, too, as nothing helps put the idea before the public eye like TV. It warms my heart to see TV used to promote good -- using their own tool for a different purpose!

I had a few thoughts/questions.

1. You say you're not gonna lie down in a field until we cross galactic center. I, however, am headed to the field and plan to stay there, not lying down, but growing food. So ... is this, sort of, divergence in thinking a result of location? I already live in the country. Do you live in a town or city?

2. Is money a more urgent issue in cities? I'm almost beginning to think so. Because out in the country people have stuff to barter, real stuff, like eggs or horsepower.

3. I'm wondering if money originated in cities because of the above, but the system spread out to encompass even the people who didn't need it, ie, those living in the country.

4. In my vision of the future, all large urban areas are disbanded and the population redistributed across the continents. The reason for this is many-fold. Cities are not sustainable in the face of any kind of emergency or lack. They become traps. They are also drains on energy and resources, and are pollution centers in our modern world. Because people have left the countryside, usually because of money, a vacuum was created whereby Corporate farming moved in. And now, especially people in cities are the victims of GM foods, pesticides, and pollution created to move all that food into the cities. [Actually, I believe this has been a deliberate plan, but that's another thread.] All the rest of us are also the victims of that, but people in the country have the best chance of providing alternatives for themselves.

5. Some communities are using their own local money, which I think is a good idea because it has locally-assigned value. More decentralization. Good.

6. Globalization was a very bad idea. Everything is so spread out and interconnected now -- but dependent upon fossil fuels to reconnect the parts, such as getting overseas products to stores worldwide, or those bananas into supermarkets in Canada in midwinter -- that it can all come crashing down at once, as a unit. Globalization has weakened us rather than strengthened us. This can only have been a deliberate plan, but that is also another thread.

7. Money invested ... too bad so many are invested in the stock market and such. Apparently this was the same scenario before the big crash in the early 20th century - people got a little prosperous then got greedy and were lured into the stock market, which is not a free market but a controlled form of gambling. Researchers say The Crash was a deliberate and manipulated event, but here we are again today. Nobody really learned the lesson because most people really didn't know the truth. Most still don't.

I think most of this is at least vaguely related to ideas about money, so I hope it isn't offensive to have this here. If so, I will apologize again!

Best wishes to you in your bookstore endeavor.

[andromeda]

[QUOTE=doodah;12333]Hi, I'm back again. I was curious to see what has transpired here. I like your civic ideas a lot and hope once you start it, they will catch on and other merchants will pick them up. I hope you get lots of news coverage about this, too, as nothing helps put the idea before the public eye like TV. It warms my heart to see TV used to promote good -- using their own tool for a different purpose!

I agree with you, bartering is the only way ahead. In England there are already barter clubs, they don't work that well yet but at least they have got going. In cities there is the problem were to find food but I have been making an experiment on how to grow food on small spaces.

My vision is vertical farming as there is no enough cultivable land for the whole of the population.

I think that the model that we can consider in this moment is what the cubans did when they run out of money...and gas (petrol). They survived by planting food everywhere, balconies, parks, any place...

Similar but not so efficient was what happened in Argentina and their barter clubs.

Skills can be bartered too for example, if you know how to fix things or heal etc.

Money only creates discrimination...we are all one, lets barter!
Love and light

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

1. You say you're not gonna lie down in a field until we cross galactic center. I, however, am headed to the field and plan to stay there, not lying down, but growing food. So ... is this, sort of, divergence in thinking a result of location? I already live in the country. Do you live in a town or city?


its a little village. The transitional currency idea is more of a big-picture concept, rather than for me personally. I have skills with which to barter with, but my original post was more geared to the large groups of people that will be awakening shortly with very little "barter-able" skills , people who would need some reasonably familiar process to "adjust" or "re-align" their lifestyles. I really dont buy into the "us and them" concept of ascension. I believe its going to be pretty much everyone, or not at all. Im sure you all agree that it takes a critical mass to precipitate change(Lynne McTaggert's "Intention Experiment", David Wilcock's "Science of Peace"), and if we get into a sort of "well everyone else is on their own" philosophy, I dont think that neccesarily is in line with the "service - to - others" path.


2. Is money a more urgent issue in cities? I'm almost beginning to think so. Because out in the country people have stuff to barter, real stuff, like eggs or horsepower.


I think thats exactly it, a lot of people dont have the good fortune of either having a farm to be self-sustainable on, or even beginning to form a barter-able skill. As Im sure all of us on Avalon have experienced firsthand, the shock and awe method of enlightening sheeple definitely DOES NOT work.


3. I'm wondering if money originated in cities because of the above, but the system spread out to encompass even the people who didn't need it, ie, those living in the country.


its all about resources I think.


4. In my vision of the future, all large urban areas are disbanded and the population redistributed across the continents. The reason for this is many-fold. Cities are not sustainable in the face of any kind of emergency or lack. They become traps. They are also drains on energy and resources, and are pollution centers in our modern world. Because people have left the countryside, usually because of money, a vacuum was created whereby Corporate farming moved in. And now, especially people in cities are the victims of GM foods, pesticides, and pollution created to move all that food into the cities. [Actually, I believe this has been a deliberate plan, but that's another thread.] All the rest of us are also the victims of that, but people in the country have the best chance of providing alternatives for themselves.


Totally 100% agree. And I we are aligned as to whether it has been deliberate or not. But the problem remains: Millions of innocent souls that maybe caught unaware.


5. Some communities are using their own local money, which I think is a good idea because it has locally-assigned value. More decentralization. Good.


I hope we can do this in our little village too, incredible idea.


Best wishes to you in your bookstore endeavor.

thank you man. Best to you and yours as well.

[doodah]

[QUOTE=andromeda;

I have been making an experiment on how to grow food on small spaces. My vision is vertical farming as there is not enough cultivable land for the whole of the population.

Yes. Absolutely doable if there is enough water. I was in Tokyo back in the 60s before it got all modernized. I marveled at how green the city was. Every balcony had something green on it. It was beautiful, but I don't think it's like that now. They, too, forgot.

I think that the model that we can consider in this moment is what the cubans did when they run out of money...and gas (petrol). They survived by planting food everywhere, balconies, parks, any place...

Yes! You're in the UK, so I don't know how towns operate there. My vision for here is a locally-engineered program of just this, with local education and local help. Each town could begin this on their own. As food prices rise, perhaps more of the older people will remember when every home had a backyard garden. Every home. And many had chopping blocks for taking the heads off of chickens. Every home had a rain barrel at least.

Skills can be bartered too for example, if you know how to fix things or heal etc.

True, very true. I've bartered with my dentist and my lawyer. Everything can be bartered.

I keep thinking that people do not need money. They will work if you give them the things they need in return ... food, a place to live, medical care. It could all be money-less. Because what do we do with the money we earn? Buy food, a place to live, medical care! The money is in there for making people rich and creating power blocs. I'm not sure where that idea comes from ...

[doodah]

[QUOTE=Cymatic Veilbegone;12926]its a little village.

The transitional currency idea is more of a big-picture concept. My original post was more geared to the large groups of people that will be awakening shortly with very little "barter-able" skills , people who would need some reasonably familiar process to "adjust" or "re-align" their lifestyles.

It looks like that "shortly" is coming pretty quick. The big guys have plans of their own for what will come next, monetarily. I'm not sure I know what that plan is, other than banks closing. If that happens, the quickest thing to turn to is barter, because that's in our control.

I really dont buy into the "us and them" concept of ascension. I believe its going to be pretty much everyone, or not at all. Im sure you all agree that it takes a critical mass to precipitate change...and if we get into a sort of "well everyone else is on their own" philosophy, I dont think that neccesarily is in line with the "service - to - others" path.

Michael St. Clair, and others, talk about a huge electromagnetic impact on this planet and all life forms on it as we move toward galactic center. While for some this energy influx will lead to positive mental and psychological change, for many who are not awake and who resist awakening, this can lead to negative change. He says communities can be existing side by side with people who have literally gone insane as a response to this energetic influx. If that is true, there is only so much that service-to-others can do. Yes, help the distressed, depressed, suicidal ones if you can; and do what is necessary about the violent ones. I don't know the answers to this, how to handle this scenario.

I don't believe it is us v. them either, but I do believe it is, at least partially, a choice, and some are preparing now for that electromagnetic influx, developing a positive orientation toward all this.

You want people to wake up and be prepared ... but so many threads here talk about the difficulty of waking people up. Nobody knows, including Michael, what will really happen.

Again, sorry to not be discussing a transitional way to handle the money thing. I see local effects and what local people can do to help themselves entirely outside of a larger monetary system.

[Northboy]

just read this intriguing article by Charles Eisenstein (Reality Sandwich; Daniel Pinchbeck) ... Im no financial or economic expert, but there seems to be some substance to this...and it may not be overly idealistic....

"The Money of the Future...And how to implement it right now

The purpose of this currency is to be, initially, complementary to standard national currencies and eventually, in the event of economic meltdown, a replacement for them. Its design emphasizes the following features:
1. It can be implemented right now as an electronic currency, with modest programming resources. We don't need to sit around hoping for change. We can do this right now; and in fact, this currency will promote change.
2. It reverses the destructive characteristics of ordinary currency that foster polarization of wealth, greed, scarcity, and short-term thinking.
3. Its mechanics of issuance promotes positive trends in the larger economy (toward sustainability, fair trade, etc.)
4. It is a fully-backed, non-inflationary currency, and the money supply is self-regulating.
5. It has an organic built-in imperative to spread. Users have a strong incentive to bring in other users and businesses. ...."
http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/newmoney.php

Aside from this, Eisenstein seem to be a pretty sincere guy, allowing "pay what you want or dont" payments for the book he spent 10 years writing, "The Ascent Of Humanity"

Maybe this will inspire support, I would certainly buy into it if there were a critical mass of support for this. Is this too unrealistic, or is this worth getting behind?

LETS systems may also be a solution.

This system , which has been deployed around the world, creates a bill of exchange or promise to pay between to parties, similiar to barter, but has a registry to keep track of transactions and who has promised what. There is a website somewhere where the whole system, including operating manuals, can be downloaded. This may be worth looking at as a transitional position as it makes each participant responsible for their commitments and weeds out those who don't.

[Northboy]

[QUOTE=Cymatic Veilbegone;12926]its a little village.

The transitional currency idea is more of a big-picture concept. My original post was more geared to the large groups of people that will be awakening shortly with very little "barter-able" skills , people who would need some reasonably familiar process to "adjust" or "re-align" their lifestyles.

It looks like that "shortly" is coming pretty quick. The big guys have plans of their own for what will come next, monetarily. I'm not sure I know what that plan is, other than banks closing. If that happens, the quickest thing to turn to is barter, because that's in our control.

I really dont buy into the "us and them" concept of ascension. I believe its going to be pretty much everyone, or not at all. Im sure you all agree that it takes a critical mass to precipitate change...and if we get into a sort of "well everyone else is on their own" philosophy, I dont think that neccesarily is in line with the "service - to - others" path.

Michael St. Clair, and others, talk about a huge electromagnetic impact on this planet and all life forms on it as we move toward galactic center. While for some this energy influx will lead to positive mental and psychological change, for many who are not awake and who resist awakening, this can lead to negative change. He says communities can be existing side by side with people who have literally gone insane as a response to this energetic influx. If that is true, there is only so much that service-to-others can do. Yes, help the distressed, depressed, suicidal ones if you can; and do what is necessary about the violent ones. I don't know the answers to this, how to handle this scenario.

I don't believe it is us v. them either, but I do believe it is, at least partially, a choice, and some are preparing now for that electromagnetic influx, developing a positive orientation toward all this.

You want people to wake up and be prepared ... but so many threads here talk about the difficulty of waking people up. Nobody knows, including Michael, what will really happen.

Again, sorry to not be discussing a transitional way to handle the money thing. I see local effects and what local people can do to help themselves entirely outside of a larger monetary system.


Great post.

I've always been drawn to understand that with the spiritual rising that ww are experiencing, there would also be a comparative "blood" rising, a thought that you have so well articulated above.

[doodah]

[QUOTE=Northboy

LETS systems may also be a solution.

This system , which has been deployed around the world, creates a bill of exchange or promise to pay between to parties, similiar to barter, but has a registry to keep track of transactions and who has promised what. There is a website somewhere where the whole system, including operating manuals, can be downloaded. This may be worth looking at as a transitional position as it makes each participant responsible for their commitments and weeds out those who don't.[/QUOTE]

This sounds good, a way of keeping the barter system fair and avoiding arguments and people forgetting. Where has this system been deployed, as you say? Is it in your area?

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

It looks like that "shortly" is coming pretty quick. The big guys have plans of their own for what will come next, monetarily. I'm not sure I know what that plan is, other than banks closing. If that happens, the quickest thing to turn to is barter, because that's in our control.

I really dont buy into the "us and them" concept of ascension. I believe its going to be pretty much everyone, or not at all. Im sure you all agree that it takes a critical mass to precipitate change...and if we get into a sort of "well everyone else is on their own" philosophy, I dont think that neccesarily is in line with the "service - to - others" path.

Michael St. Clair, and others, talk about a huge electromagnetic impact on this planet and all life forms on it as we move toward galactic center. While for some this energy influx will lead to positive mental and psychological change, for many who are not awake and who resist awakening, this can lead to negative change. He says communities can be existing side by side with people who have literally gone insane as a response to this energetic influx. If that is true, there is only so much that service-to-others can do. Yes, help the distressed, depressed, suicidal ones if you can; and do what is necessary about the violent ones. I don't know the answers to this, how to handle this scenario.

I don't believe it is us v. them either, but I do believe it is, at least partially, a choice, and some are preparing now for that electromagnetic influx, developing a positive orientation toward all this.

You want people to wake up and be prepared ... but so many threads here talk about the difficulty of waking people up. Nobody knows, including Michael, what will really happen.

Again, sorry to not be discussing a transitional way to handle the money thing. I see local effects and what local people can do to help themselves entirely outside of a larger monetary system.

I agree. Excellent post! So we arrive at what really boils down to an intuitive sense of "service to others", not an absolute sense, which I personally feel comfortable with. I was actually just thinking about the "Law of Allowance" and how that might play into this. Thanks very much for the intelligent positive discussion.

[Northboy]

This sounds good, a way of keeping the barter system fair and avoiding arguments and people forgetting. Where has this system been deployed, as you say? Is it in your area?


http://www.gmlets.u-net.com/

It was designed by a group on Vancouver Island in response to an economic downturn in the resource industries.( Canadians have had to learn a little about reinventing themselves economy wise over the last generation).

Places in the UK and AUS have built systems. Its public domain, or close to it I believe. It would work, especially in conjunction with village market concepts.

[doodah]

I just had a vision, in regard to my own statement "do what is necessary about the violent ones."

Did anyone ever see the movie, "The Weeping Camel"? It's an amazing film shot in Mongolia, a real-time story of a brown camel that has a white calf. It rejects the calf, won't nurse it. The poor little guy keeps trying to get his mother to take care of him, but she keeps walking off and rejecting him.

The villagers call for a shaman. He arrives with a chair and a musical instrument. Over the course of an afternoon he plays this instrument and chants, and a woman in the village pets and sings to the camel. The instrument is very unusual. The sounds it makes are very similar to the sounds the camel makes. By the end of the day, all the tension and discord is gone from the animal, the little white calf is happily nursing, and the brown camel is crying.

My vision had to do with some of the indigo children being able to do something similar with these negatively-influenced people.

Wow. Let's hope it is so.

[doodah]

http://www.gmlets.u-net.com/

It was designed by a group on Vancouver Island in response to an economic downturn in the resource industries.( Canadians have had to learn a little about reinventing themselves economy wise over the last generation).

Places in the UK and AUS have built systems. Its public domain, or close to it I believe. It would work, especially in conjunction with village market concepts.

Thanks, Northboy. I'll take a look.

[Northboy]

Thanks, Northboy. I'll take a look.

Your Welcome

We don't have to reinvent the wheel if the solution is sitting on a shelf somewhere gathering dust.

[martian31v]

quote=Northboy

LETS systems may also be a solution.

This system , which has been deployed around the world, creates a bill of exchange or promise to pay between to parties, similiar to barter, but has a registry to keep track of transactions and who has promised what. There is a website somewhere where the whole system, including operating manuals, can be downloaded. This may be worth looking at as a transitional position as it makes each participant responsible for their commitments and weeds out those who don't.[/QUOTE]

this is the best solution ive come across. not only for a transitional currency, but a future global currency as well. it really deserves its own thread. i'll try to get as many links as possible. lets try to get some LETS system momentum.

[Waterman]

Has anyone read "The Confessions of an Economic Hit Man"?

[Seashore]

...just read this intriguing article by Charles Eisenstein (Reality Sandwich; Daniel Pinchbeck) ...


http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/newmoney.php



The link is "Not Found"...

[14 Chakras]

Sound money = Critical for abundant economy.

Money must have value and be backed by something. Fiat money destroys abundance and productivity.

Good idea starting this thread. The immediate term solution is micro currencies backed by gold.

[mu2143]

The reason for money is only controlling People and making them to belief that nothing is there in abundants. Make people belief that the many have to pay for land and a house to the view. Given away you freedom by freewill

Thats how you make people belief that there free instead there just slaves to the system.

Thats is why our technology does not progress further then limited amount of energy.

Don't people notes that everything around them brakes down. Even Software Operating systems like the Windows series fall apart. This only happens if you made the program to fall apart. Just like our body is designed to die!!,because there is no reason for it but to control you.

People belief this is normal and creating this realality thats how everthing works.

O its a bug when instead is is just a load of BS.

To get to the basics Money is just joke is

Remember the falling angels (Drags) are the ones who manipulating the hole milkyway galaxy for billions of years putting us in to war for nothing but destruction.

[Connecting with Sauce]

As we know the doodoo is about to hit the fan, so I propose a new world currency based on toilet paper... I plan to fill my loft with the stuff and have3 bases covered.

1. future barter tool
2. a clean bottom
3. heat retention with loft insulation

[Seashore]

As we know the doodoo is about to hit the fan, so I propose a new world currency based on toilet paper... I plan to fill my loft with the stuff and have3 bases covered.

1. future barter tool
2. a clean bottom
3. heat retention with loft insulation

:mfr_lol:

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

lol

[Humble Janitor]

Bummer. My vision of the future does not have money in it at all, and as I read about higher dimensional beings, they don't use money either. There's no point to money. It's supposed to be a medium of exchange, but you know the golden rule: who controls the gold makes the rules. As long as there is lust for power, money is a bad idea.

Same here.

Money is power, control and ego all wrapped up in one.

Get rid of it and you can start over. :thumb_yello:

[Neo]

I personally will do everything in my power to make sure to make sure I am part of NO system when this one falls. Money doesnt work, barter is just money in another guise. How about just a desire to help other people?
I figure that most people on this forum are here because of, or at least partly this reason.

Do you barter with your friends or family? I dont, I just help them in any way I can.
Now just extend your friends or family network to everyone.
Problem solved.

Isnt this the unity we all truly desire?

Creating another system just creates seperation all over again.

[Phtha]

This is really great to see so many people here against the whole idea of money. :lmao:
I also would never join any system or "radiant zone" that has anything to do with money!

1 Timothy 6:10
10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

[Seashore]

...Do you barter with your friends or family? I dont, I just help them in any way I can...



I've never thought about it this way...

I would love it if this could actually work. :cup:

Is it realistic?

[Neo]

I've never thought about it this way...

I would love it if this could actually work. :cup:

Is it realistic?


I believe it is, infact I believe it is our original nature to be this way. If you see someone in need what is your first reaction? The doubts of 'should I help' or 'why should I' or 'what will they do for me' are usually afterthoughts and a by product of this current system.

An old irish saying .... ' A stranger is just a friend you havent met yet '

[Seashore]

I believe it is, infact I believe it is our original nature to be this way. If you see someone in need what is your first reaction? The doubts of 'should I help' or 'why should I' or 'what will they do for me' are usually afterthoughts and a by product of this current system.

An old irish saying .... ' A stranger is just a friend you havent met yet '

Your avatar doesn't match your attitude!!

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

Same here.

Money is power, control and ego all wrapped up in one.

Get rid of it and you can start over. :thumb_yello:

Money is a system of establishing value no more no less. Money is a mutual agreement between two parties. No ego, no control. The problem is and has always been human greed and human lust for power. Lincoln's greenback system worked wonderfully until the bankers put an end to it. Thats like saying chainsaws are evil.

But I completely agree, I would love to see a world with no money. Apologies for resurrecting this confusing thread, it seems many dont understand my original point, which was to find a transitional way to help people who would'nt be able to barter with anything if the SHTF. Thats all. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just trying to facilitate a discussion.

[Neo]

Your avatar doesn't match your attitude!!

lol.... The avatar merely represents the willfull breaking of our current corrupt system. Humanity must be free before we can start fresh ;)Ever seen the movie 'The Matrix'?

[NorthernSanctuary]

It's good to hear the idealistic comments, but as long as you need things from the existing system, you will have to work with a currency/ barter that they accept. Unless you can manufacture toilet paper, than at some point you have to use money to buy it. Same with any issue related to shelter, food, transportation, etc.. Unless your system can create it from scratch, you'll need to have some money / barter power the is accepted by the other system, so you need some transitional money/barter system until you can create everything that you need in your own system/ society... This will take some time.

[Seashore]

lol.... The avatar merely represents the willfull breaking of our current corrupt system. Humanity must be free before we can start fresh ;)Ever seen the movie 'The Matrix'?

I've heard a lot about it, but no I haven't seen it...

[NorthernSanctuary]

The link is "Not Found"..


He has a video series here on money from a talk given last March/2009:

http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/video.php

[Seashore]

...find a transitional way to help people who would'nt be able to barter with anything if the SHTF...



This is what I would like to see: a discussion of what we can do now to put into place a structure or at least a plan that we can go to if and when society does collapse and people are in a panic...

[Seashore]

The link is "Not Found"..


He has a video series here on money from a talk given last March/2009:

http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/video.php

Thanks!! :original:

I read his article and commented on it on this thread...

[shred]

How can we move from a monatary / barter system with precious metals, diamonds, & other things that are still concidered "of value" to most people ?




shred

[Neo]

It's good to hear the idealistic comments, but as long as you need things from the existing system, you will have to work with a currency/ barter that they accept. Unless you can manufacture toilet paper, than at some point you have to use money to buy it. Same with any issue related to shelter, food, transportation, etc.. Unless your system can create it from scratch, you'll need to have some money / barter power the is accepted by the other system, so you need some transitional money/barter system until you can create everything that you need in your own system/ society... This will take some time.


When this current system falls you will soon rediscover what it is that you actually "need". I've never seen toilet paper being delivered to native tribes and indeed I wonder how long toilet paper manufacturing plants will stay open if we sink into a barter system? Not real long I'm guessing.

There seems to be an assumption that in the future we will still be mass producing everything and you can just rock on down to a shop and barter with your friendly shop owner for what ever you think you need.

Sorry guys but any kind of money or barter or any system will almost always leave someone out in the cold or in debt.

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

The link is "Not Found"..
He has a video series here on money from a talk given last March/2009:

http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/video.php

thanks NS

2 more articles from Reality Sandwich by him, and seashore's comments on them...

http://www.realitysandwich.com/money_a_new_beginning
http://www.realitysandwich.com/money...ginning_part_2


My understanding is that he's proposing a system called "demurrage." Money depreciates in value by design. To remain valid, each piece of currency requires a monthly stamp costing 1% of its value. The currency is called "stamp scrip." Accumulation of wealth becomes a burden. Society changes.

This is a paradigm shift.

He said that the system was used in the town of Worgl, Austria in 1932 and it was working beautifully until it was outlawed in 1933 at the behest of a central bank.

http://www.realitysandwich.com/sites/realitysandwich.com/files/images/money2big_0.preview.jpg

He said something similar was used in the U.S. after the bank failures of the early 30s until F.D.R. banned all emergency currencies.

Interesting stuff...

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

When this current system falls you will soon rediscover what it is that you actually "need". I've never seen toilet paper being delivered to native tribes and indeed I wonder how long toilet paper manufacturing plants will stay open if we sink into a barter system? Not real long I'm guessing.

There seems to be an assumption that in the future we will still be mass producing everything and you can just rock on down to a shop and barter with your friendly shop owner for what ever you think you need.

Sorry guys but any kind of money or barter or any system will almost always leave someone out in the cold or in debt.

how can you blame that on a piece of paper? maybe I dont get it but that just sounds silly to me. When you really examine it, isn't it really about human behavior? Isn't it about the concept of winning/losing.....the embedded philosophy of COMPETITION...that someone has to lose in order for you to win. If we change that paradigm, it won't matter what we use...money, toilet paper, marbles, or nothing at all.

[NorthernSanctuary]

Sorry guys but any kind of money or barter or any system will almost always leave someone out in the cold or in debt.

True, but I don't see that the sole cause of this is money. Create a system where people have security and abundance, than money will lose its appeal naturally. In a historical account of Lumeria, people used to bring flowers to the market place, and leave it there for anyone to take.

There's no doubt that when the system collapses, the priorities will change. The need to wipe your rear end is still there, but you'll have to use leaves instead; some would consider this a drop if not in the quality of life, certainly in convenience.

The negative interest would help to get us off of the money obsession so people don't hoard "wealth", but the key practical problem is satisfying people with their need for security with their physical existence in a society as a whole. Then the sharing of "wealth" will happen naturally with a spiritual based society, and money would slowly disappear. This present society is managed to focus on scarcity, and the idea that you can never have too much, so even rich people work like crazy to make more money for its own sake.

[Neo]

how can you blame that on a piece of paper? maybe I dont get it but that just sounds silly to me. When you really examine it, isn't it really about human behavior? Isn't it about the concept of winning/losing.....the embedded philosophy of COMPETITION...that someone has to lose in order for you to win. If we change that paradigm, it won't matter what we use...money, toilet paper, marbles, or nothing at all.

Not blaming the piece of paper, blaming the short sightedness of the people who feel the need to create a system that everyone must adhere to.
Indeed it is about behaviour and that is exactly my point.

Money or any other thing you want to trade only reinforces the concept of 'this is mine' 'that is yours'.

I have a whole room of stuff that has been given to me over the years, given to me for nothing in return, given to me only because I needed it at the time and I asked for it.
Over the years I have given lots of people help with alot of things at no cost or trade to them, purely because they needed it and I could give it.
Yes indeed my friend, behaviour is part of the answer.

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

Yes indeed my friend, behaviour is part of the answer.

agreed. Any ideas on how to get there from here?

[Neo]

Sorry guys but any kind of money or barter or any system will almost always leave someone out in the cold or in debt.

True, but I don't see that the sole cause of this is money. Create a system where people have security and abundance, than money will lose its appeal naturally. In a historical account of Lumeria, people used to bring flowers to the market place, and leave it there for anyone to take.

There's no doubt that when the system collapses, the priorities will change. The need to wipe your rear end is still there, but you'll have to use leaves instead; some would consider this a drop if not in the quality of life, certainly in convenience.

The negative interest would help to get us off of the money obsession so people don't hoard "wealth", but the key practical problem is satisfying people with their need for security with their physical existence in a society as a whole. Then the sharing of "wealth" will happen naturally with a spiritual based society, and money would slowly disappear. This present society is managed to focus on scarcity, and the idea that you can never have too much, so even rich people work like crazy to make more money for its own sake.


As I've already stated, the sole blame is not money alone. The best way for people to get off the money obsession is to have none. The mistake will be to replace the money system with another system even if it is alot better than our current one.
If any system fails one person then it fails everyone, can you create a system that suits everyone? I know that everyone thinks they can and thats one reason why we have governments.

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

As I've already stated, the sole blame is not money alone. The best way for people to get off the money obsession is to have none. The mistake will be to replace the money system with another system even if it is alot better than our current one.
If any system fails one person then it fails everyone, can you create a system that suits everyone? I know that everyone thinks they can and thats one reason why we have governments.

I always assumed the new exchange systems would be locally run and locally-based. Self-Organizing Collectives. Kind of like little eco-systems. Like thousands of Farmers Markets where communities traded locally made goods. But then you also have the issue of lets say people who want solar panels, or even some of the free energy devices that are beginning to finally become public.

[Neo]

agreed. Any ideas on how to get there from here?


I can only advise on my own experience and that is.... BE what it is that you want from others. Like I said above, I can easily give to others with no expectation of anything in return and funny enough I find many people are the same to me.
Surely other people here have found the same to be true?
Really often I am amazed at the generosity and lengths some people go to with their help and what they give freely, which in turn inspires me to give more.

It all begins with us.

[Cymatic Veilbegone]

I can only advise on my own experience and that is.... BE what it is that you want from others. Like I said above, I can easily give to others with no expectation of anything in return and funny enough I find many people are the same to me.
Surely other people here have found the same to be true?
Really often I am amazed at the generosity and lengths some people go to with their help and what they give freely, which in turn inspires me to give more.

It all begins with us.

I feel like we are in complete agreement on practically every point, and yet it appears we are having a debate. Like a dog chasing his own tail. I completely live my life with that philosophy as well. Very few possessions, try to give more than I take etc.

I think maybe this thread is an excercise in futility at least for me, because with all the righteousness and idealism flying around,I feel like the question still hasnt been answered....

- Is there a way to help the people who will be awakening to a very different reality in terms of money?

Maybe we don't care, I give up.

[NorthernSanctuary]

As I've already stated, the sole blame is not money alone. The best way for people to get off the money obsession is to have none. The mistake will be to replace the money system with another system even if it is alot better than our current one.
If any system fails one person then it fails everyone, can you create a system that suits everyone? I know that everyone thinks they can and thats one reason why we have governments.
...


It's like trying to tell a person on drugs to quit cold turkey. Unless you have the power to forcibly do it, it's not going to happen. There are easier ways. Besides that, like the matrix, the people are against you, and think you are on "drugs".

It all begins with us.
Yes, this won't happen overnight, that's why the transition itself is a big deal. Even the matrix was done over a few episodes. Your personal experience cannot be extended beyond your friendship boundaries.

[Neo]

I feel like we are in complete agreement on practically every point, and yet it appears we are having a debate. Like a dog chasing his own tail. I completely live my life with that philosophy as well. Very few possessions, try to give more than I take etc.

I think maybe this thread is an excercise in futility at least for me, because with all the righteousness and idealism flying around,I feel like the question still hasnt been answered....

- Is there a way to help the people who will be awakening to a very different reality in terms of money?

Maybe we don't care, I give up.


Of course we care thats why we are here talking about it :original:
I feel the only way we can help as individuals is on an individual basis which in turn acts like a virus and hopefully spreads around the planet.
Just help show the people that are in your life or come into your life that there is another way to be. People will only wake up when they want to and when they want to they will be looking for beacons of light. You are one of the those beacons so just keep burning bright. ;)

[Neo]

As I've already stated, the sole blame is not money alone. The best way for people to get off the money obsession is to have none. The mistake will be to replace the money system with another system even if it is alot better than our current one.
If any system fails one person then it fails everyone, can you create a system that suits everyone? I know that everyone thinks they can and thats one reason why we have governments.
...


It's like trying to tell a person on drugs to quit cold turkey. Unless you have the power to forcibly do it, it's not going to happen. There are easier ways. Besides that, like the matrix, the people are against you, and think you are on "drugs".

It all begins with us.
Yes, this won't happen overnight, that's why the transition itself is a big deal. Even the matrix was done over a few episodes. Your personal experience cannot be extended beyond your friendship boundaries.


I dont have the power to do it forcibly but a few dramatic earth changes may just help me there.

My personal experience is always extended beyond my friendship boundaries.

[Seashore]

Let's move the discussion to the other thread...

[lemon_sky88]

Barter, Trade, Live stock, Farming, Spritual growth is the future not technological growth or economic advancement:lightsabre:

[lemon_sky88]

Opps I forgot one. No power grid as well. Anything not free energy will be obsolete very soon. Paradime, will you please shift? Thank you :original:

[NorthernSanctuary]

It's suppose to be a convergence of spiritually and science on the good side, the discovery of the ether as a fifth element.

Here's the description from Wiki:
Astrological meaning of the Age of Aquarius

Ages are believed by some astrologers to affect mankind whereas other astrologers believe the ages correlate to the rise and fall of mighty civilizations and cultural tendencies. Aquarius traditionally "rules" electricity, computers, flight, democracy, freedom, humanitarianism, idealists, modernization, rebels and rebellion, mental diseases, nervous disorders, and astrology.[4] Other keywords and ideas believed associated with Aquarius are nonconformity, philanthropy, veracity, perseverance, mankind and irresolution.[5] The appearance or elevation in status of many of these Aquarian developments over the last few centuries is considered by many astrologers to indicate the proximity of the Aquarian age. There is no uniform agreement about the relationship of these recent Aquarian developments and the Age of Aquarius. Some astrologers believe that the influence of a new age is experienced before it arrives because of a cuspal effect or Orb of Influence. Other astrologers believe the appearance of Aquarian developments indicate the actual arrival of the Age of Aquarius.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Aquarius

[Seashore]

He has a video series here on money from a talk given last March/2009:

http://www.ascentofhumanity.com/video.php



I've finished Part 1 so far. This guy is a visionary!

[Connecting with Sauce]

My toilet roll system would have three values of trade

1. Value rolls - scratchy though and not too comfortable
2. Normal rolls - softer but maybe only 2 ply still
3. Luxury rolls - really soft and 3 ply... obviously if it was quilted it would add value too

Sheets could be used for lower value item :D so sheets would be like coins and rolls like notes... problems solved!

They could also be used to wipe the fan clean!!! :lmao:

[NorthernSanctuary]

What will really be indispensable after the paper is gone is toilet cloth, and you're ahead if you have the water spray (bidet) available. It's been know that one of the top concerns some people have in these disaster scenarios is what to wipe their rear end with.