Prove it!

[sammytray]

Okay Here goes!

I often come across the famous "prove it" statement after deep conversations.

This might be alot to ask but I was wondering if any of you can prove ANYTHING that we theorize or discuss here at avalon.

It can be simple or very detailed.... its all relevant.

The goal is to collect as much "proof" as possible to questions and theories that we have. Honestly, "prove it" has been coming up alot lately and has stuck in my mind. How can I talk about anything if I can't prove it? I am quite the "clouds in the sky" individual but a little proof goes along way. :original:

Your stories and experiences are welcome!
example, with no answer needed:

why is grass green?
is the earth hollow?

Just thought this topic "PROVE IT" could generate some interesting dialogue.
I am sure conspiracy theories would prove to be an interesting topic. :winksmiley02:

Thanks

Questions and answers are welcome.

[Spregovori]

What good is the prove (proof) if once can not understand it?

Can you prove me the way the computer processor works? Sure...just copy paste the technical data... after which I can go "Ahhaammm" in potem vse tiho je bilo....

:)

I mostly try to relay on what/how I "feel" (strange as it sounds seems to work...for now)

[iainl140285]

Okay Here goes!

I often come across the famous "prove it" statement after deep conversations.

This might be alot to ask but I was wondering if any of you can prove ANYTHING that we theorize or discuss here at avalon.

It can be simple or very detailed.... its all relevant.

The goal is to collect as much "proof" as possible to questions and theories that we have. Honestly, "prove it" has been coming up alot lately and has stuck in my mind. How can I talk about anything if I can't prove it? I am quite the "clouds in the sky" individual but a little proof goes along way. :original:

Your stories and experiences are welcome!
example, with no answer needed:

why is grass green?
is the earth hollow?

Just thought this topic "PROVE IT" could generate some interesting dialogue.
I am sure conspiracy theories would prove to be an interesting topic. :winksmiley02:

Thanks

Questions and answers are welcome.

Grass is green due to the process of photosynthesis and the pigment chlorophyll I think?? :lol3::naughty:

[Ammit]

A simple Faraday cage is posible from house hold items, PROVED last night for myself, instructions are there so prove it yourself.

After all, i can tell you grass in my garden is blue, but you would need to see it for real to have your proof, wouldnt you.

Sometimes you need to trust some beings as proof can not be that easy to give.

[sammytray]

A simple Faraday cage is posible from house hold items, PROVED last night for myself, instructions are there so prove it yourself.

After all, i can tell you grass in my garden is blue, but you would need to see it for real to have your proof, wouldnt you.

Sometimes you need to trust some beings as proof can not be that easy to give.

I guess my point is that when we learn of something that resonates with us we want to spread the joy to all those who will listen however, what we have learned may not work so how can you tell someone else that it does...? Has it worked for you.

by no means was I implying that I don't "trust" beings.... I feel I should at least have experienced or tested what I'm preaching. Make semse?

[sammytray]

A simple Faraday cage is posible from house hold items, PROVED last night for myself, instructions are there so prove it yourself.

After all, i can tell you grass in my garden is blue, but you would need to see it for real to have your proof, wouldnt you.

Sometimes you need to trust some beings as proof can not be that easy to give.

I guess my point is that when we learn of something that resonates with us we want to spread the joy to all those who will listen however, what we have learned may not work so how can you tell someone else that it does...? Has it worked for you.

by no means was I implying that I don't "trust" beings.... I feel I should at least have experienced or tested what I'm preaching. Make sense?

[Kulapops]

Hi Sammytray !

I think this is a brilliant thread.. and similar thoughts have resonated in my posts elsewhere...especially when linked to conspiracy stuff.

Alex Jones a disinfo agent ?? Prove it !
Now it seems David Icke is one too !! Prove it (coincidentally, is this why I stopped reading his site only in the last couple of weeks ?! lol..)

Which brings me on to my favourite topic at the moment - and connected to your thread - what is the nature of realilty? If my reality changes, odd as it sounds, somehow this can propagate back through time to make 'known' facts change to other ones.

It seems to me the only facts we can prove our based on our own experience and then we can only prove to ourselves, maybe not even to others. But then we are starting to get to the nitty gritty. In the end it's all about our existential experience. What is real for someone is real. Hmmm.

But so much of this conspiracy stuff is sooo out there and sooo contradictory that it can't all be real. So at the moment I'm enjoying a personal reality where none of it is.

:mfr_lol: Am I goofy or what ?!

K

P.S. I think the sky is blue because the high atmosphere filters out all the red-end spectrum light.
We see rainbows because of the prism effect of thousands of tiny droplets of water split white light into its constituent parts.

[Shaynard]

My memory always turns to the film and book Contact.

Q:"Did you love your Dad?"

A:"yes."

"Prove it!"

Each person defines what is sufficient "proof" for them. If someone says something to me that doesn't "work" for me when it's said I will listen anyways, and consider it just as much as something that does instantly "hit home" so to speak. I trust myself to make good choices based on any information, and I forgive myself any mistakes I make, and try to grow from them. In my experience "experience" comes to different people in different ways. Due to the fact that most "spiritual" experiences are highly symbolic, at times we make mistakes in the conclusions we base on them. Even the most "misguided" disinfo, can have a thread of truth buried in it.

I (personaly) feel more comfortable understanding no being is all "good" or "bad" and all information is neither all ''true" or "false".

~You'll know the truth from all their lies~

Thank you for the thread and sharing your thoughs everyone. :)

In light, of love
Shaynard

[mudra]

The question in itself could have been given by a Zen master to his pupil for him to meditate and reach enlightment ;)

Love from me
mudra

[sammytray]

exactly!

okay... Now were getting somewhere! I myself don't know for sure why I feel that the prove it subject is important but I am sure I will soon learn. :original:


Hi Sammytray !

I think this is a brilliant thread.. and similar thoughts have resonated in my posts elsewhere...especially when linked to conspiracy stuff.

Alex Jones a disinfo agent ?? Prove it !
Now it seems David Icke is one too !! Prove it (coincidentally, is this why I stopped reading his site only in the last couple of weeks ?! lol..)

Which brings me on to my favourite topic at the moment - and connected to your thread - what is the nature of realilty? If my reality changes, odd as it sounds, somehow this can propagate back through time to make 'known' facts change to other ones.

It seems to me the only facts we can prove our based on our own experience and then we can only prove to ourselves, maybe not even to others. But then we are starting to get to the nitty gritty. In the end it's all about our existential experience. What is real for someone is real. Hmmm.

But so much of this conspiracy stuff is sooo out there and sooo contradictory that it can't all be real. So at the moment I'm enjoying a personal reality where none of it is.

:mfr_lol: Am I goofy or what ?!

K

P.S. I think the sky is blue because the high atmosphere filters out all the red-end spectrum light.
We see rainbows because of the prism effect of thousands of tiny droplets of water split white light into its constituent parts.

[sammytray]

hmmmm is knowing from our experiences proof enough? Is that proof we found for ourselves contagious enough to be the proof others are looking for? How can we all see eye to eye with the proof that's laid before us? Besides, technically proof means the subject was tested one way or the other and a conclusion formed. (someone proved man could fly one way or the other and now noone needs that proof anymore)

there is alot of power in proof


My memory always turns to the film and book Contact.

Q:"Did you love your Dad?"

A:"yes."

"Prove it!"

Each person defines what is sufficient "proof" for them. If someone says something to me that doesn't "work" for me when it's said I will listen anyways, and consider it just as much as something that does instantly "hit home" so to speak. I trust myself to make good choices based on any information, and I forgive myself any mistakes I make, and try to grow from them. In my experience "experience" comes to different people in different ways. Due to the fact that most "spiritual" experiences are highly symbolic, at times we make mistakes in the conclusions we base on them. Even the most "misguided" disinfo, can have a thread of truth buried in it.

I (personaly) feel more comfortable understanding no being is all "good" or "bad" and all information is neither all ''true" or "false".

~You'll know the truth from all their lies~

Thank you for the thread and sharing your thoughs everyone. :)

In light, of love
Shaynard

[sammytray]

The question in itself could have been given by a Zen master to his pupil for him to meditate and reach enlightment ;)

Love from me
mudra

always enjoy your input dear mudra.... Could you elaborate a bit?

[Frank Samuel]

During the oil crisis of the 70's so many new alternates forms of energy came out, it seems inventors where everywhere promoting their ideas and inventions.The majority where bought out and the inventions never came to flourish. Research in the traditional sense takes years. IE.. I am a researcher of the solfeggio and binaural beats. How do I know they work because I tested on myself , family and friends. But people are skeptical because they have been brainwashed by traditional modern medicine. My ex wife works as a pharmacist in a local psychiatric hospital . I asked her the other day to tell me if she had an idea what the success rate was for the patients that are hospitalized in the ward. 2% or less, she answer. We all know that alternate forms of medicine and energy are more effective and economical yet is not advertise for it does not make money for the conglomerates who practically own us through medicine, energy and food.This however in my opinion is a blessing in the sky, lets used and research all of the inventions that can benefit ourselves, families, and eventually the world and let these billionaire conglomerates go broke. Prove it no thanks just let me test your idea out and if it works I spread the word eventually a underground market will sprang out to everyone who is interested. Community and underground markets are in my opinion the way to go to promote and test ideas and inventions that can benefit us and not these ruthless companies.

[Shaynard]

The question in itself could have been given by a Zen master to his pupil for him to meditate and reach enlightment ;)

Love from me
mudra

I agree.. :)

hmmmm is knowing from our experiences proof enough? Is that proof we found for ourselves contagious enough to be the proof others are looking for? How can we all see eye to eye with the proof that's laid before us? Besides, technically proof means the subject was tested one way or the other and a conclusion formed. (someone proved man could fly one way or the other and now noone needs that proof anymore)

there is alot of power in proof

In this case ''seeing is believing" could be the only way to achieve "proof". Which would be equal perhaps to experiencing it yourself.

However in a way it illustrates what I meant with my post. I have seen a human being levitate. Can I prove it? Not unless that individual wanted to do so in front of you, or other, perhaps a camera. Even if it were a camera, and I got that video on evening news, would everyone believe it was real? it was "proof" to me, perhaps, that we as human beings have the potential.

Many things that have been "proven" in our past have since been ''proven" to be incorrect.

What constitutes ''undeniable evidence" of something?.. again I find my mind returning to the first post I quoted here.. lol

in light, of love
Shaynard

[sammytray]

hey stranger !... Been awhile :) thanks for the insight... I am fascinated with the scales you mention... Better yet,very curious as to how it's worked for you, your family and friends!

very interesting take on the "underground"/behind the scenes "prooving" system. If proof is truth then it's funny how humanity always wants to hide it.

During the oil crisis of the 70's so many new alternates forms of energy came out, it seems inventors where everywhere promoting their ideas and inventions.The majority where bought out and the inventions never came to flourish. Research in the traditional sense takes years. IE.. I am a researcher of the solfeggio and binaural beats. How do I know they work because I tested on myself , family and friends. But people are skeptical because they have been brainwashed by traditional modern medicine. My ex wife works as a pharmacist in a local psychiatric hospital . I asked her the other day to tell me if she had an idea what the success rate was for the patients that are hospitalized in the ward. 2% or less, she answer. We all know that alternate forms of medicine and energy are more effective and economical yet is not advertise for it does not make money for the conglomerates who practically own us through medicine, energy and food.This however in my opinion is a blessing in the sky, lets used and research all of the inventions that can benefit ourselves, families, and eventually the world and let these billionaire conglomerates go broke. Prove it no thanks just let me test your idea out and if it works I spread the word eventually a underground market will sprang out to everyone who is interested. Community and underground markets are in my opinion the way to go to promote and test ideas and inventions that can benefit us and not these ruthless companies.

[Frank Samuel]

Here's one for you on the underground pirate boxes for cable, work very well but are part of the underground, free internet through wifi internet antennas.
Cancer cures by the use of high dosage of vitamin C. Hydrogen fuel made from H2O separation the Kits are available in the internet. I can go on and on. May I add that I , family and friends have benefited from many ideas and inventions in the underground market. For me this is the real world , rebel that I am I love going against the grain. When I was actively promoting many new inventions my client list was very interesting, enough said...

[Kulapops]

exactly!

okay... Now were getting somewhere! I myself don't know for sure why I feel that the prove it subject is important but I am sure I will soon learn. :original:

Well this is just it.. Peter Hagelin (I think that's his name) epitomises what I felt already in the film 'What the Bleep' (Please get this from amazon Sammy and watch if you haven't already... you'll love it !! Get the rabbit hole version...).

He says that there are different levels... physical, atomic, sub-atomic, nuclear... sub-nuclear..etc. and that there are different rules working at different leveles.

So the real question is , 'proof of what ?!'

Because at one level, it's easy to prove that the hypontenuse of a right-angled triangle is equal to the square root of the addition of the squares of the two sides. Just get me some paper !

But at another level, the universe is working at different rules. It seems the lower we go, the more abstract it becomes, and what was physical approaches thought. A change in thought at the base level, the super-string level, can propogate all the way back up to the physical. And since everything is joined at the super-string level - i.e. one consciousness, then this can propagate back up to change any and all points in physical reality as seen from your perspective.

Goofy !

Well, that's as I understand it.

Here's a perfect example of this theory in action. My friend gets given a christmas present. Only she's a week late for Christmas and the present is kept from her. She doesn't know what it is. On the day of receiving the Christmas present, she thinks... I really need another jug to keep water in. In an unrelated way. then later , when she opens the present... it's a small water jug.

Now in a physical way.. you can say that this present was bought four weeks ago... and there's no way there can be anything else in that sealed wrapped box. Yet, when she has that thought-desire for a water jug, for whatever reason... and we don't understand the mechanism, her thought changes reality... which propagates back in time, to the point where the friend is actually deciding what to buy... altering the current reality.

Until she opens it, it could be anything. But something about that thought changes reality. That is, it's NOT coincidence !

I find that pretty mind blowing.

What's that noise? Sirens ? I think they're coming for me now....

I also know this to be experentially true.. because I once owned 500 Nortel shares.... they went up to $80 each... I thought I was rich... and pretty much when I had that thought , they dropped to nothing , almost overnight. No one saw the telecom bubble popping.. it came from nowhere. Who's to say that occured just to part me from my riches. Yes.. it sounds ludicrous...

but so do quangons from the planet 'bung'.....

that's why I come to PA... to sort the whooey from the whe-hey !! :original:

Don't forget, it's only my reality... no one else has to join :wink2:

Peace n love

K

p.S. sorry for the long post...I had a large glass of wine... and I know what you're thinking.... :shocked:

[sammytray]

:) your truly entertaining with excellent communication skills... Ya got a "good vibe" friend, thanks for the post. I have heard of "what the bleep".... Will give it a whirl. Gonna get to my lap top so I can type with all fingers instead of from this brain zappin cell phone. Great post!

Well this is just it.. Peter Hagelin (I think that's his name) epitomises what I felt already in the film 'What the Bleep' (Please get this from amazon Sammy and watch if you haven't already... you'll love it !! Get the rabbit hole version...).

He says that there are different levels... physical, atomic, sub-atomic, nuclear... sub-nuclear..etc. and that there are different rules working at different leveles.

So the real question is , 'proof of what ?!'

Because at one level, it's easy to prove that the hypontenuse of a right-angled triangle is equal to the square root of the addition of the squares of the two sides. Just get me some paper !

But at another level, the universe is working at different rules. It seems the lower we go, the more abstract it becomes, and what was physical approaches thought. A change in thought at the base level, the super-string level, can propogate all the way back up to the physical. And since everything is joined at the super-string level - i.e. one consciousness, then this can propagate back up to change any and all points in physical reality as seen from your perspective.

Goofy !

Well, that's as I understand it.

Here's a perfect example of this theory in action. My friend gets given a christmas present. Only she's a week late for Christmas and the present is kept from her. She doesn't know what it is. On the day of receiving the Christmas present, she thinks... I really need another jug to keep water in. In an unrelated way. then later , when she opens the present... it's a small water jug.

Now in a physical way.. you can say that this present was bought four weeks ago... and there's no way there can be anything else in that sealed wrapped box. Yet, when she has that thought-desire for a water jug, for whatever reason... and we don't understand the mechanism, her thought changes reality... which propagates back in time, to the point where the friend is actually deciding what to buy... altering the current reality.

Until she opens it, it could be anything. But something about that thought changes reality. That is, it's NOT coincidence !

I find that pretty mind blowing.

What's that noise? Sirens ? I think they're coming for me now....

I also know this to be experentially true.. because I once owned 500 Nortel shares.... they went up to $80 each... I thought I was rich... and pretty much when I had that thought , they dropped to nothing , almost overnight. No one saw the telecom bubble popping.. it came from nowhere. Who's to say that occured just to part me from my riches. Yes.. it sounds ludicrous...

but so do quangons from the planet 'bung'.....

that's why I come to PA... to sort the whooey from the whe-hey !! :original:

Don't forget, it's only my reality... no one else has to join :wink2:

Peace n love

K

p.S. sorry for the long post...I had a large glass of wine... and I know what you're thinking.... :shocked:

[mudra]

cjYjEOGaIYc

AqnEGu8VF8Y

Love Always
mudra

[conkroach]

We can prove most anything through use of muscle testing. Me and my teenage daughters conducted a little experiment yesterday. I held various objects against my chest, hidden from them. Through muscle testing we could blindly tell which of the things were "good for us". 100% accurate. The accuracy was based on the assumption that things like Aspartame, sugar, refined flour, MSG, soda pop, chlorine bleach, and similar were "bad for us". Things like broccoli, brazil nuts, books, vitamins, a locket with Grannies picture, were "good for us". The kids were very intrigued. We plan to experiment more this weekend.

[folotheflo]

well now, a beauty of a post.

'Who has the proof ' ?

Who has it indeed ? Well, we all do, if proof be truth.
But the story is always unfolding, so we can never have all the proof.

If some thing is true, it can be proven.

truth will always boil to the surface, it can not be burried forever

[mudra]

Beyond Belief-- Trusting Your Own Experience

My Truth cannot become yours, otherwise it would have been very cheap. If my truth could be yours then there would be no problem.

That is the difference between a scientific truth and a religious truth. A scientific truth can be borrowed. A scientific truth, once known, becomes everybody else's property. Albert Einstein discovered the theory of relativity. Now there is no need for everybody to discover it again and again and again. That would be foolish. Once discovered, it has become public. Now it is everybody's theory. Once discovered, once proved, now even a school child can learn it. Now no genius is needed--- you need not be an Albert Einstein. Just a mediocre mind will do; just an ordinary mind will do. You can understand it and it is yours. Of course, Einstein had to work for years--- then he was able to discover it. You need not work. If you are ready to understand and put your mind to it, in just a few hours you will understand.

But the same is not true about a religious truth. Buddha discovered, Christ discovered, Nanak and Kabir discovered, but their discovery cannot become your discovery. You will have to rediscover it again. You will have to move again from ABC; you cannot just believe in them. That won't help. But that is what humanity has been doing: mistaking religious truth for scientific truth. It is not scientific truth, it can never become a public property. Each individual has to come to it alone, each individual has to come to it again and again. It can never become available in the market.

From: Osho New Man for the New Millennium

Love Always
mudra

[greybeard]

Spiritual truth is a subjective experience, however every Sage has said the same thing from that subjective experience.
They are all agreed that God is Love. Personal subjective experience confirms this. They can only point the way to this experience.
Its up to the individual to discover this for themselves as subjective experience if they wish to do so. It takes time and dedication.
Jesus said. "Even the wisest of my disciples will enter heaven through faith alone".

Dr David Hawkins uses kinesology to confirm what he knows for the benefit of others. therefore there is confirmation of his experience and spiritual truth that he shares.

Incidentally he says that what one bird knows all birds know.
Maybe the human race is heading in this direction. Who knows!!!

Chris

[sammytray]

We can prove most anything through use of muscle testing. Me and my teenage daughters conducted a little experiment yesterday. I held various objects against my chest, hidden from them. Through muscle testing we could blindly tell which of the things were "good for us". 100% accurate. The accuracy was based on the assumption that things like Aspartame, sugar, refined flour, MSG, soda pop, chlorine bleach, and similar were "bad for us". Things like broccoli, brazil nuts, books, vitamins, a locket with Grannies picture, were "good for us". The kids were very intrigued. We plan to experiment more this weekend.

I have heard of muscle testing..... Some/most reports are that it is not accurate however, I can "see" how this could work.

[sammytray]

well now, a beauty of a post.

'Who has the proof ' ?

Who has it indeed ? Well, we all do, if proof be truth.
But the story is always unfolding, so we can never have all the proof.

If some thing is true, it can be proven.

truth will always boil to the surface, it can not be burried forever

Cool post!

If proof is truth and we all have it then why are so many afraid to "prove" it??

SO MANY PEOPLE KNOW THE TRUTH BUT DO NOTHING ABOUT IT!!!

If enough people would "prove it" (tell the truth) the rest would gain the courage to prove it. Hmmmm kinda like whats happening now.... alot of truth/proof is surfacing but the vibration of the majority is so damn low it looks like the truth may not be completely revealed until after the lies (chaos) are brought to the surface and cycled through.

[sammytray]

Beyond Belief-- Trusting Your Own Experience

My Truth cannot become yours, otherwise it would have been very cheap. If my truth could be yours then there would be no problem.

That is the difference between a scientific truth and a religious truth. A scientific truth can be borrowed. A scientific truth, once known, becomes everybody else's property. Albert Einstein discovered the theory of relativity. Now there is no need for everybody to discover it again and again and again. That would be foolish. Once discovered, it has become public. Now it is everybody's theory. Once discovered, once proved, now even a school child can learn it. Now no genius is needed--- you need not be an Albert Einstein. Just a mediocre mind will do; just an ordinary mind will do. You can understand it and it is yours. Of course, Einstein had to work for years--- then he was able to discover it. You need not work. If you are ready to understand and put your mind to it, in just a few hours you will understand.

But the same is not true about a religious truth. Buddha discovered, Christ discovered, Nanak and Kabir discovered, but their discovery cannot become your discovery. You will have to rediscover it again. You will have to move again from ABC; you cannot just believe in them. That won't help. But that is what humanity has been doing: mistaking religious truth for scientific truth. It is not scientific truth, it can never become a public property. Each individual has to come to it alone, each individual has to come to it again and again. It can never become available in the market.

From: Osho New Man for the New Millennium

Love Always
mudra



Wow , thanks for this mudra :original:

Little worried about "each individual has to come to it alone". It seems like its a little late and the time is short. Meaning, i wish that we would have woken up A LONG time ago. :)

[sammytray]

Spiritual truth is a subjective experience, however every Sage has said the same thing from that subjective experience.
They are all agreed that God is Love. Personal subjective experience confirms this. They can only point the way to this experience.
Its up to the individual to discover this for themselves as subjective experience if they wish to do so. It takes time and dedication.
Jesus said. "Even the wisest of my disciples will enter heaven through faith alone".

Dr David Hawkins uses kinesology to confirm what he knows for the benefit of others. therefore there is confirmation of his experience and spiritual truth that he shares.

Incidentally he says that what one bird knows all birds know.
Maybe the human race is heading in this direction. Who knows!!!

Chris

I like where you went with this Chris.... Hard to know the truth i suppose. Time and dedicationz; your not kiddin! I suppose majority need a little assistance.. (PROOF) to help kick them in ass a bit.

[sammytray]

One more thing...

People for a lonnnnggggg time accepted that the earth was flat. This was there truth. Well it had to be proven otherwise. it was.

[folotheflo]

hello sammytray,

This is a brilliant thread for many reasons, my favorite being, that you allow the reader to ponder the possibility that we, as a race of beings, might HAVE to go through the darkness/ the chaos/ the bad/ the evil, or what ever we choose to call that extreme of the spectrum.
Most of us perceive this area of the spectrum as 'bad'. But love-hate, good-evil, order-chaos, posotive-negative, these are just our ways to explain duality, when does hot become cold, they are both the extreme opposites of the same spectrum, temperature.
Negative is not 'bad', death needs to be acheived before new life can grow again, one can not exist with out the other.

And so maybe we all do need to go through the chaos, maybe this is the necessary lesson.

No matter, all is as it should be, it can be no other way. All of life is unfolding just as it needs to, to acheive what it needs.

So i feel you to be right, sammytray, most of us are to afraid to tell the truth,to show the proof, of who we really are.

AND SO MANY OF US MAY KNOW THE TRUTH, BUT DO NOTHING ABOUT IT !!

But you do, you have the courage to express it here, and your courage seeps into me, and maybe many others.
So you have already raised the 'vibration'.

Maybe we don't need chaos after all,
who knows ?

[sammytray]

thank you for your insight!

I'm calling out those who know the truth, who have the proof...
the proof will set you free!


hello sammytray,

This is a brilliant thread for many reasons, my favorite being, that you allow the reader to ponder the possibility that we, as a race of beings, might HAVE to go through the darkness/ the chaos/ the bad/ the evil, or what ever we choose to call that extreme of the spectrum.
Most of us perceive this area of the spectrum as 'bad'. But love-hate, good-evil, order-chaos, posotive-negative, these are just our ways to explain duality, when does hot become cold, they are both the extreme opposites of the same spectrum, temperature.
Negative is not 'bad', death needs to be acheived before new life can grow again, one can not exist with out the other.

And so maybe we all do need to go through the chaos, maybe this is the necessary lesson.

No matter, all is as it should be, it can be no other way. All of life is unfolding just as it needs to, to acheive what it needs.

So i feel you to be right, sammytray, most of us are to afraid to tell the truth,to show the proof, of who we really are.

AND SO MANY OF US MAY KNOW THE TRUTH, BUT DO NOTHING ABOUT IT !!

But you do, you have the courage to express it here, and your courage seeps into me, and maybe many others.
So you have already raised the 'vibration'.

Maybe we don't need chaos after all,
who knows ?

[conkroach]

I have heard of muscle testing..... Some/most reports are that it is not accurate however, I can "see" how this could work.

Greybeard mentioned Dr. David Hawkins. Read Dr. Hawkin's books and be convinced of the efficacy of muscle testing. Like I said, we conducted informal experiments at home, with 100% rate of success. The person being tested had absolutely no knowledge of the item in question, yet managed to determine the 'truth' of it's effect on the human body. :original:

[sammytray]

Greybeard mentioned Dr. David Hawkins. Read Dr. Hawkin's books and be convinced of the efficacy of muscle testing. Like I said, we conducted informal experiments at home, with 100% rate of success. The person being tested had absolutely no knowledge of the item in question, yet managed to determine the 'truth' of it's effect on the human body. :original:


Thanks Conkroach, I will check it out! 100% rate of success?? I guess that is "proof" :)