Why is Kinsuemei2 banned?

[Carol]

I've been reading his posts and see nothing that would justify this action. He has a right to his opinion and sharing his story is what folks do here.

[mntruthseeker]

I do not know how to see who gets banned or not but I sure can't figure out why anyone would ban Kinsuemei2

The guy had alot of manners and I'm sure he didnt offend anyone. Did he say too much maybe ?

[TRANCOSO]

I've been reading his posts and see nothing that would justify this action. He has a right to his opinion and sharing his story is what folks do here.
How do you know he's banned?

[K626]

What was he posting on?

[mntruthseeker]

I wonder what Carol meant as I just looked and it shows that he is on. His name is in a different color but who has time for checking that nonsence out

I wonder if she just seen banned in checking his status but I believe thats someone uses that name LOL

who knows anything anymore

[DoctorWho]

He's logged on, but is grayed out and his icon says Banned. Maybe something went down in PMs. I had nothing against the guy.
Bill "the Doctor"

[Carol]

Check his profile page. http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/member.php?u=9204

Kinsuemei2
Banned

Being banned he can look but not post. Also his avatar picture disappeared when I was reading some of his threads so something just happened within the past 30 minutes.

[mntruthseeker]

OMG I see what you mean Carol


I feel really bad because I think he is a very decent man

What a pity

[Céline]

i have called Gaialove and asked him to look into it..

We both enjoy his posts as well...He said that he knows of no reason why he would be banned

Might be a mistake..

[Ross H]

Hello to all,

Kinsuemei2 has been banned for hoaxing information.

Sincerely

Ross H.

[Céline]

Hoaxing????

When a loved member gets banned.... people are going to react...

Is it unfair of us to ask for more information?

I am not trying to question Mods decisions...

[Karen]

Wait please - while I work on getting more information ...

[Céline]

Thank you Karen

[Carol]

Hello to all,

Kinsuemei2 has been banned for hoaxing information.

Sincerely

Ross H.

Hoaxing what? Given some of what he shared I think we need to know what evidence there is against him and exactly what was hoaxed.

[Céline]

Hoaxing what? Given some of what he shared I think we need to know what evidence there is against him and exactly what was hoaxed.

I agree if there was "mis information"..we should know..

[Karen]

Hoaxing what? Given some of what he shared I think we need to know what evidence there is against him and exactly what was hoaxed.

This may take some time ...

[mntruthseeker]

Ok check this out and this is the posting that first ran through my mind after reading what Carol put down

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19722&highlight=david+wilcock&page=2

[Stargazer1965]

Hoaxing what? Given some of what he shared I think we need to know what evidence there is against him and exactly what was hoaxed.
Umm...what's hoaxing??

Deliberate mis-info???

[K626]

"Hoaxing"!! :lol3:

Half this site is "hoaxing"...

More to it I'm sure.

[Céline]

"Hoaxing"!! :lol3:

Half this site is "hoaxing"...

More to it I'm sure.

You bring up a great point..one that has been on my mind..

Is it a positive to allow "unsubstantiated"threads.. to continue?

Now.. i suppose the cons will win versus the pros... but..

i do feel a certain responsibility to the "newly awakened"..to offer them a path based on truth and truisms...

Not an easy task i must say..

[Ross H]

Umm...what's hoaxing??

Deliberate mis-info???

Yes.

[Céline]

i have the utmost respect for you Ross and the other mods because i am convinced you all are fair..

i do hope you understand our concern

[K626]

You bring up a great point..one that has been on my mind..

Is it a positive to allow "unsubstantiated"threads.. continue?

Now.. i suppose the cons will win versus the pros... but..

i do feel a certain responsibility to the "newly awakened"..to offer then a path based on truth and truisms...

not an easy task i must say..

IMO nobody should ever be banned from a site such as this. These are very stressfull and trying times and the information comes in many and challenging ways. There are so many parallels between "projecting" fantasy and wishfullness and that being a trigger for an "answer". If we truly are looking for the building blocks I'm afraid everything must go into the mixer. I believe in unpacking the information as it comes and how it comes and I have met many who have "intuited" their own gateway from frankly ridiculous ideation and positions....Let the data flow.

[Céline]

Yes...keep the flood gates of Information , open.

But...
There is purposeful Mis -Information that should not be welcome here...

There must be a neutral moderating of the forum based of guidelines approved by representatives of the whole...

This is my humble opinion..

[mntruthseeker]

I have to agree with K626

Half the people Kerry and Bill interview can't be trusted to be telling the full story and they know it

So who decides if you are telling the truth or not ? Certainly God is not monitoring the forum


Why should any of us JUDGE anyone else on this site ? Most of the time if people disagree with someone on this forum, they just IGNORE them.

I happen to think that every person should be free to post unless its rude and ofensive to another person

[Carol]

Ross, what is the deliberate disinfo.

Since I personally know, met and have been at presentations that David Wilcox did and have a lot of insider info, I agree with Kinsuemei2 regarding him. And I will never forget David grabbing his genitals during his presentation just as my 13 year old daughter walked into the room. It was obscene. As I also attended 3 of his presentations... almost all identical but publicized as different, we were really put off as it cost us a lot of money and wasted time since my husband arranged to take a day off work to attend. It was in essence a real rip-off.

Next, it is clear to be David is totally into the celebrity thingy and anyone can figure that out just by listening him talk about himself. My other info regarding David also comes from other friends of his who have known him for awhile and have stated that Davids idea of research is google. Take it for what you will but if Kinsuemei2 is being banned for anything that he had to post regarding DW then something is very wrong in Kansas here on this forum.

[Céline]

Hmmm

Good points i must say.

So...what if people are getting "duped"..should there be any kind of investigation of what people are "spreading around" In your opinion?

[K626]

Yes...keep the flood gates of Information , open.

But...
There is purposeful Mis -Information that should not be welcome here...

There must be a neutral moderating of the forum based of guidelines approved by representatives of the whole...

This is my humble opinion..

I'm always keen to see what "the other side" are upto. :original:

ATS for instance was for quite a while bogged down by "the dark side". :lol3:

[K626]

I have to agree with K626

Half the people Kerry and Bill interview can't be trusted to be telling the full story and they know it

So who decides if you are telling the truth or not ? Certainly God is not monitoring the forum


Why should any of us JUDGE anyone else on this site ? Most of the time if people disagree with someone on this forum, they just IGNORE them.

I happen to think that every person should be free to post unless its rude and ofensive to another person

Agreed.

K.

[TRANCOSO]

Ross, what is the deliberate disinfo.

Since I personally know, met and have been at presentations that David Wilcox did and have a lot of insider info, I agree with Kinsuemei2 regarding him. And I will never forget David grabbing his genitals during his presentation just as my 13 year old daughter walked into the room. It was obscene. As I also attending 3 of his presentations... almost all identical but publicized as different, we were really put off as it cost us a lot of money and wasted time since my husband arranged to take a day off work to attend. It was in essence a real rip-off.

Next, it is clear to be David is totally into the celebrity thingy and anyone can figure that out just by listening him talk about himself. My other info regarding David also comes from other friends of his who have known him for awhile and have stated that Davids idea of research is google. Take it for what you will but if Kinsuemei2 is being banned for anything that he had to post regarding DW then something is very wrong in Kansas here on this forum.
And how can you tell it's 'deliberate'?
I'm glad I stated that in my opinion the GFL is utter BS, when I started my 'The Ashtar Command...' thread.

It's not a good development when moderators start randomly ban people whenever the mood strikes, because it suits them.

[mntruthseeker]

Carol, I can feel your anger and embarrassment.

I felt that way the very first interview that I ever listened to of his with Kerry. I got a very sick feeling

I force myself to listen to another one of us his videos from the LA Conference but I felt it was all made up of very important other peoples views. Not impressed at all

[Carol]

Bill Ryan banned Kinsuemei2. The Admin just followed his directive.

[Firstlook]

My understanding is that this is a private forum. That said it still is a bit strange to know someone was banned because of dis-information.....and thats all we know. It does create barrier of sorts.

plucked in the middle of the night.:naughty:


kidding.:original:

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, Everyone:

Sorry to have to do this. It was my call, and I take full responsibility.

Kinsuemei2 was also masquerading as "Heather Anderson" who was a non-existent person. Kinsuemei and "Heather" had both e-mailed Camelot with literally near-unbelievable stories written in a very similar style. There were all kinds of problems with the information.

Four days ago, Eleni was contacted by Kinsuemei stating that "Heather" had been killed in a traffic accident. All my red flags went up and I did an IP cross-check on the e-mails we had received at Camelot.

I should have done this earlier. It's a wrap, I'm afraid. The IP address on separate e-mails from Kinsuemei and from Heather was identical: 67.132.69.188.

[Image removed re: Bill Ryan request]

We found just now that it was also shared on the forum by Kinsuemei2, HeatherJJAnderson, Kane944, and KilaSolai.

I appreciated many of Kinsuemei's posts on the forum. But I have zero sympathy or tolerance for hoaxers. The real super-soldiers wasted time and energy examining "Heather's" story (Kudos to Duncan O'Finioan, btw: he decided right at the start that it was bogus). To post this kind of invention is a real slap in the face to the real-deal folk. I wrote to Kinsuemei that he does not deserve the time of day from any one of these very fine people.

So if anyone knowingly hoaxes information and it comes to my attention, it's a permanent ban. If I decide it's proved beyond any doubt, I'll make the call immediately and will take full responsibility. There's enough wild information circulating which makes the jobs of researchers much harder... having an internal saboteur does not help the world be a better place.

Expect criticism from Kinsuemei, by the way... please ignore it. We have to learn, and move on.

With best wishes to all, Bill

[Ammit]

Bill Ryan banned Kinsuemei2. The Admin just followed his directive.

Really!!

What I read was just someone saying what they thought, you know, "free speech" and I did not see any reason why Kinsuemei2 was banned unless something did happen via hidden PM`s which if it was the case then maybe it was justified, suppose we will never know.

umm, The ptb, wow they are everywhere... Sheeples too.

[Céline]

Thank you bill..

.................hmmm

[Carol]

Good grief. This reminds me of Sol aka Egg. One of the rules here is only one identity, only the real person is allowed. I'm sorry that Kinsuemei2 blew it as he was a very interesting poster. I was also under the impression that he had cancer and was dying. Do we know if this is true? In fact... does anyone know what is real here and what is not?

[Firstlook]

wow Bill, that IS quite a situation. I see your reaction as fair.

Four different member names, Kind of like impersonation. lol.

weird.:original:

[Céline]

*celine hugs carol*

i know exactly how you feel..

[beren]

Good grief. This reminds me of Sol aka Egg. One of the rules here is only one identity, only the real person is allowed. I'm sorry that Kinsuemei2 blew it as he was a very interesting poster. I was also under the impression that he had cancer and was dying. Do we know if this is true? In fact... does anyone know what is real here and what is not?


Who knows where the wind blows...

[Anchor]

It's not a good development when moderators start randomly ban people whenever the mood strikes, because it suits them.

We don't do that - ever.

Do you really think otherwise ?

A..

[K626]

Good call Bill. Cut and dried really. :lightsabre:

[GaiaLove]

I'm sorry that Kinsuemei2 blew it as he was a very interesting poster.
Me too, I enjoyed his posts tremendously. It is a shame really. However as was mentioned earlier in this thread. Membership at Avalon is a privilege not a right, No one here is above the guidelines and the staff here are more than fair in maintaining those guidelines.

Trust Us. :)

.. does anyone know what is real here and what is not?

Life is an illusion, so is this. As the Beatles once said; "Nothing is Real"

Peace

[Ammit]

I dont realy understand the IP thingy, what chances are there that this could actually be hacked?? or even posible to be hacked?

[orthodoxymoron]

Wow! Why do people do that sort of thing? We have to deal with enough trouble as it is. This site should be all about discernment and what I call 'Thought Triage'. We should all develop very effective BS Detectors. This is sort of a Spiritual and Philosophical No Man's Land. Moderators and members seem to be quite good at cross examining people...which might be a good substitute for banning...in most cases. Obviously...multiple online personalities, profanity, threats, graphic descriptions, obscene pictures and paintings, etc...cannot be tolerated in any way, shape, or form. Potential legal liabilities also need to be watched very carefully. But this site is a real zoo and a philosophical food for thought fight. This helps to make us strong. I think things are about to get unimaginably confusing, disillusioning, and disorienting...as if they weren't enough already. Dealing with 'problem posters' might be good practice for what's to come.

:mad3::wall::zip::lightsabre::lmao:

[Firstlook]

Wow! Why do people do that sort of thing? We have to deal with enough trouble as it is. This site should be all about discernment and what I call 'Thought Triage'. We should all develop very effective BS Detectors. This is sort of a Spiritual and Philosophical No Man's Land. Moderators and members seem to be quite good at cross examining people...which might be a good substitute for banning...in most cases. Obviously...multiple online personalities, profanity, threats, graphic descriptions, obscene pictures and paintings, etc...cannot be tolerated in any way, shape, or form. Potential legal liabilities also need to be watched very carefully. But this site is a real zoo and a philosophical food for thought fight. This helps to make us strong. I think things are about to get unimaginably confusing, disillusioning, and disorienting...as if they weren't enough already. Dealing with 'problem posters' might be good practice for what's to come.

:mad3::wall::zip::lightsabre::lmao:

I would like to be examined. Just to get it out of the way.

no cold hands.:lmfao:


peace:original:

[Majorion]

Ok check this out and this is the posting that first ran through my mind after reading what Carol put down

http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19722&highlight=david+wilcock&page=2

I just wanna know why in the above thread, are the words David and Wilcock colored Red?

I know that when I made my posts I certainly did not put it in that color. What's the deal...

[mntruthseeker]

IP is an address you get off your computer and it follows you around. You are capable of changing it each and every night if you care to do so.

Two computers will never share the same IP#.

I'm still not ready to place any judgement on Kinsuemei2 as I am not sure what the point was he was trying to get across.

Its a give and take world and I stick by my feelings that we are all entitled to believe whomever we want.

There are many that give interviews that I consider very much full of disinformation.

[mntruthseeker]

I just wanna know why in the above thread, are the words David and Wilcock colored Red?

I know that when I made my posts I certainly did not put it in that color. What's the deal...

The reason is that I did a search to bring up the post because I knew where Kinsuemei2 made his remark regarding Dr Anderson and Bill and Kerry not believing his story. So red came up on the "searched words"

[Anchor]

I just wanna know why in the above thread, are the words David and Wilcock colored Red?

I know that when I made my posts I certainly did not put it in that color. What's the deal...

It is the search highlighter in action. You probably followed a link that had search parameters.

A..

[Majorion]

Oh okay, thank you for the answers, no conspiracy here. :original:

[Anchor]

Two computers will never share the same IP#.

A dangerous assumption - which is unfortunately incorrect.

Many people share the same IP address, I am doing so right now because of how I am accessing the site today I am behind a proxy. My IP address could well be being used by another users right now.

A..

[Firstlook]

A dangerous assumption - which is unfortunately incorrect.

Many people share the same IP address, I am doing so right now because of how I am accessing the site today I am behind a proxy. My IP address could well be being used by another users right now.

A..

me too.

[mntruthseeker]

A dangerous assumption - which is unfortunately incorrect.

Many people share the same IP address, I am doing so right now because of how I am accessing the site today I am behind a proxy. My IP address could well be being used by another users right now.

A..

A dangerous assumption ? How so ? Bill banned Kinsuemei2 for using the same IP# for 2 various names................Did he do this unfairly ?

I didnt take in consideration of a corporation IP # so I stand corrected there......and I did assume it was a personal computer usuage.

Explain how Bill could make his decision based on IP # please

[jaby]

Oh okay, thank you for the answers, no conspiracy here. :original:


LOL...are you sure about that !:original:

I'd say there's been some serious mischief going on re the whole thread...and the other thread about banning.

Just My Opinion....:tongue2::mfr_lol:


EDIT to add...thanks for clearing the matter up Bill....I expect a lot of people try and discredit Project Camelot by making stuff up.

[Ammit]

A dangerous assumption - which is unfortunately incorrect.

Many people share the same IP address, I am doing so right now because of how I am accessing the site today I am behind a proxy. My IP address could well be being used by another users right now.

A..

Anchor, does this mean someone could send information and such and it could be recorded as you while not actually you....?

[Carol]

unfortunately the truth tends to come in bits and pieces at times. It's up to Bill to share what other info he has if he chooses to do so. However, I sense he did cover the basis before making his post.

[Anchor]

A dangerous assumption ? How so ? Bill banned Kinsuemei2 for using the same IP# for 2 various names................Did he do this unfairly ?

I didnt take in consideration of a corporation IP # so I stand corrected there......and I did assume it was a personal computer usuage.

Explain how Bill could make his decision based on IP # please

Assumption is a bad idea when hatching conspiracy theories or dealing with them.

It is not just corporations that use proxies.

Bill did his own checking, I can't comment on how that was done. Nor can I fault what I have seen of his post.

A..

[Phtha]

People sharing the same connection at home can have the same IP as well... this is not just a corpseration thing.

For what its worth I've only read one post of Kinue2 some time ago, I think the first one he made, and knew he was full of it. :lmao:


A dangerous assumption ? How so ? Bill banned Kinsuemei2 for using the same IP# for 2 various names................Did he do this unfairly ?
I didnt take in consideration of a corporation IP # so I stand corrected there......and I did assume it was a personal computer usuage.

[mntruthseeker]

the IP is traced back to a Carolina residence...............so its not a corporation.

[Majorion]

LOL...are you sure about that !:original:

I'd say there's been some serious mischief going on re the whole thread...and the other thread about banning.

Just My Opinion....:tongue2::mfr_lol:
I've been a mod before, so IMHO there doesn't seem to be any conspiracy here, other than the fact this thread has been started when its really a staff issue, I can also tell you that in comparison to most other forums, the staff here are being more than cordial allowing this thread to gain much attention and answer everyone's questions, when they are not obligated to do so in the least.

Truth is, just another person who broke simple guidelines and was banned, just another day in the life of forums. :original:

[swordsmith]

Nobody knows who anyone is online. On one former forum of seemingly hard headed research freaks, there was a stalker with multiple personalites ( and terrible idiosyncratic punctuation , so it seemed pretty obvious) who went on to stage her own death , all taking place across several forums with an international cast of characters . Who knows why people do it?
A bedtime story /salutory warning:
http://www.laweekly.com/2007-10-11/news/the-life-and-death-of-jesse-james/1

remember what the dormouse said, keep your head

[eleni]

Hmm.... there is more going on behind the scenes here than what has been presented.

I pressed this *Dr. Heather* to speak via phone , get int touch with Kerry etc; it was just a matter of time IMO before she was *killed*.

My intuitive red flag warning came on failry early- I shared that with Kerry who was more in the line of well, it makes for a good Hollywood type story.


You see, there were the same typos on both Kin and Heather's writings- that was an early red flag for me- I decided to give them *both* the benefit of the doubt because I know the nature of these MKULTRA programs are just so unreal and many times come off sounding Sci Fi.

I did check both IP addresses and knew they were one and the same. Kin told me Heather was rescued and staying at their house.

[Phtha]

Agreed, or at least pm'd a mod for answers first to see if there is a good reason... rather then trying to create drama. :sleep_1:

I think the mods here do awesome work, and its not an easy job when your every action can get picked to pieces by the many.

I've been a mod before, so IMHO there doesn't seem to be any conspiracy here, other than the fact this thread has been started when its really a staff issue

[mntruthseeker]

yeah those typos will get you busted everytime LOL

Do we call you detective Eleni now ?

[Bill Ryan]

A dangerous assumption ? How so ? Bill banned Kinsuemei2 for using the same IP# for 2 various names................Did he do this unfairly ?

I didnt take in consideration of a corporation IP # so I stand corrected there......and I did assume it was a personal computer usuage.

Explain how Bill could make his decision based on IP # please

Hi there, mntruthseeker:

I didn't make the decision based on an common IP address. That was the clincher. I had previously worked through pages of information provided to Camelot privately by "Heather" - line by line - and none of it added up.

I had red flags then, and Kerry and I discussed it. I told Kerry I wasn't buying any of it as there were way too many anomalies and inconsistencies, as well as the close similarity in (poor) writing style between Kinsuemei2 and Heather.

Then I heard a few days ago from Eleni that "Heather" had been killed in a traffic accident. That seemed like a really convenient way of "deleting" an imaginary person who had become a problem... because Kerry was wanting to meet and talk with "Heather" - etc. Clearly that could not have happened, and Kerry was pressing.

Another person in this loop had already noticed the IP anomaly and called Kinsuemei2 on it. He said that Heather was staying with her. When this other person phoned him and asked to speak with her, he told them "she had escaped via boat to another country".

Heather never existed.

Very best wishes, Bill

[Ross H]

Agreed, or at least pm'd a mod for answers first to see if there is a good reason... rather then trying to create drama. :sleep_1:

I think the mods here do awesome work, and its not an easy job when your every action can get picked to pieces by the many.


Thank you Phtha, That would of been a far more constructive course to take first off.

Thank you for your kind words...
Sincerely.

[mntruthseeker]

Interesting indeed. I say bravo to Eleni for her skills at detecting the IP address. I have to say I was confused on IP # as being the only reason.

Thanks for addressing this as I did think that many of us were fooled by his dismeaner and clarification was not too much to ask. You have cleared it up just fine.

When he first mention this drs name back on the wilcock thread, I too tried to find information on her and found nothing.

Besides I was sure he told us he was hiding out in a motel room in Florida at one time and I felt bad that he had to hide out with a little one.

[Stargazer1965]

Hi there, mntruthseeker:

I didn't make the decision based on an common IP address. That was the clincher. I had previously worked through pages of information provided to Camelot privately by "Heather" - line by line - and none of it added up. [Mod note: please trim long quotes]
From the sidelines Bill most of this thread....To what ends??

Running diversions on the forum??

Causing drama??

Attention??

Just looking for opinions so we can be on the lookout in the future.

Thanks

[beren]

Hi there, mntruthseeker:

I didn't make the decision based on an common IP address. That was the clincher. I had previously worked through pages of information provided to Camelot privately by "Heather" - line by line - and none of it added up.


Bill do you think you and Kerry are constantly being mis led by PTB? I mean vast number of people visits camelot site ...Maybe PTB think that it`s got out of control and they had to bug your efforts more than ever?

How many times when you got a story ,you think in the middle of it that it`s actually BS someone wishes to bore you with? To detract you from a possibly true and better interview along the road?
Namely ,say, some possible guy has a true story and is a bit afraid of being ridiculed.Now he follows your site and in some point decide to call you guys. But then you show several suspicious interviews and guy decide to step back in silence again.
I think it`s a strong possibility of that. And I salute you if you and Kerry are trying your best to prevent BS on your sites...

[Stargazer1965]

Oh yeah!!

GREAT JOB BILL AND THE MODERATORS!!!

hmm....sounds like a rock group or the new super friends!! :naughty:

[mntruthseeker]

LOL Stargazer...............it does keep getting better doesnt it ?

[Stargazer1965]

LOL Stargazer...............it does keep getting better doesnt it ?

You know MNT.....life is becoming more interesting than fiction these days

[TRANCOSO]

LOL Stargazer...............it does keep getting better doesnt it ?
Which is more than can be said of The Who playing right now during the Super Bowl halftime break.
Fantastic laser show, though.

[mntruthseeker]

You got it. I can't be certain of anything in here anymore.

I do not want to judge anyone and I feel whenever one does that they do nothing more than "put themself down".

whistleblowers tell their stories and it's up to us to decide whether we buy it or not. I for one do not want to be told whom I should believe in or not.

I wont congratulate someone for judging

[beren]

Which is more than can be said of The Who playing right now during the Super Bowl halftime break.
Fantastic laser show, though.


Super bowl :tongue2: it`s for nannies... All those feathered guys ...cartoon I tell ya...Pardon me my American friends but football (the real one) is the thing...:naughty:

[Curative]

I unexpectedly appreciate this thread for a number of reasons which I will share:

Carol the OP, for her concern over an Avalonion comrades ban,

The contributing Mods, for their efforts in finding out why said ban was imposed,

Bill, for his openness and apparent honesty in evidencing his own decision to impose the ban and his posting of the details for us all to see.

This gives added credence to PC/PA as a whole, I am more inclined to believe that should it come to Bill's attention, that a recorded and shared testimony found after the fact to be a fabrication, he would equally evidence it to the forum, regardless from whom it came.

I am not saying Bill or Kerry believe all their interviewees to be necessarily factual, however it indicates to me (and hopefully to you too) that at least the testimonies they do record, are not known to be fabrications, and that if sufficient evidence does indeed come to light that any actually were "hoaxed" for whatever reason, we would all get to hear about it, right?

So (IMO) a positive outcome from a negative situation, perhaps the truth indeed shines through and we are better for it.

[SteveX]

Bill do you think you and Kerry are constantly being mis led by PTB? I mean vast number of people visits camelot site ...Maybe PTB think that it`s got out of control and they had to bug your efforts more than ever?

With the quality of some of the posts on here the TPTB must be "P'ing" themselves laughing for all the own gaols. Saves em having to do anything.

How many times when you got a story ,you think in the middle of it that it’s actually BS Oh man! school break must be horrendous. Also, when you think of those PC vids having 30,000 to 400,000 viewers each, it's gotta attract more nuts than an electro magnet in a scrap yard.

On another forum I've been on they caught a guy arguing with his shade account. :lmfao: Another guy was scammed for $5,000 off a con artist.


Nowt queer as folk.

[Juno]

this is extraordinary...not that he/she was banned...BUT that....

A. the site owner would publish actual IP's of the individuals involved on the net for all to see.

B. said IP's geolocate back to what is likely a temporary office suite in florida...(that tends to scream 'gov private contractor')

C. bill posted screenshots of the email headers in order to make a point, when the audience of p/a would CERTAINLY take bill's word for whatever transpired.

SO...

the diligent reader could reasonably deduce that...

since p/a doesn't ban ANY of their hoaxsters...

but this ONE was banned...and a VERY suspicious IP posted for all to see...

this is a setup of sorts...

so...HOW?

well...ONE possibility is....

if it's a gov private contractor, pinging that IP could quite likely give THEM full control of your pc (yeah...they can and will do that...no debate necessary)

not 100% sure that's what's going on...

would like to hear other theories....because this doesn't smell right....

[Carol]

Well after Bill clarified the situation I spent the rest of the day gardening, transplanting blueberry starters, cleaning out the strawberry beds, repotting and just having a very satisfying day outside. It seems sometimes it is too easy to get caught up in forum land and let is slip between getting other things that need doing done.

I liked Kinsuemei2 and felt sorry for him. I had not read all of his posts but recalled our earlier PMs and had been wondering how he was doing. Subsequently, I decided to check his statistics to see what he had been posting when the ban occurred and after checking what he had been writing saw no visible reason for the ban and asked why. I only saw Anchor and Gareth logged on as well as Bill. No mods. So it didn't make sense what happened and being the curious sort pressed for answers.

This was an unusual situation. Usually when a member is banned it is pretty obvious they had been acting out which is visible to other members reading the forum. This other drama was hidden. When the word hoax came out I was concerned because of what he was posting about ingesting various flaxseed oils. So I pushed harder because it was a possible health issue for a variety of members that I thought we all should know about. I had no clue as to the nature of the hoax and very much appreciated Bill making the time to clarify what was going on. The multiple aliases was the give away and then I understood immediately what was happening at one level. I also appreciate Bill going the extra mile to further clarify some of the other details.

Then I thought... were we made fools of by Kinsuemei2? Was his entire posting history a sham? If he lied about who he is ~ how can any of his posts be deemed credible? This then leaves multiple other questions which are still unanswered and only Kinsuemei2 can answer them. And even if he were back, with an explanation, are we to trust anything he has to share again?

Having multiple personalities and avatars on a forum is just one way of totally discrediting oneself. It truly saddens me that this is how Kinsuemei2 chose to spend his time at Avalon. From all I know about karma, one cannot escape it. Karma will follow one from life to life until it is dissolved. Consciously incurring karma just makes how it more difficult, more challenging to dissipate when the time comes for it to unfold. I wish Kinsuemei2 the best and hope he comes to realize what he lost by indulging in this charade.

[Anchor]

pinging that IP could quite likely give THEM full control of your pc (yeah...they can and will do that...no debate necessary)

That's a new one on me - where did you get that from and what is your evidence? For you to be sure you should be able to reference the source from whence this gem of advice came from. I think someone has fed you some fear-uncertainty-and-doubt which you in good faith in an effort to help your fellows are spreading - but thats how it works.

I am confident you are mostly wrong.

What is so suspicious about the IP address - quote the supporting material for your suspicions please.

My perspective on this: I am a real life IT security officer/developer and I am very familiar with Internet technology at all levels of the protocol stacks right down to the wires - also with some of the sneaky internet kung-fu that gets deployed.

not 100% sure that's what's going on...

....

A..

[raulduke]

Super bowl :tongue2: it`s for nannies... All those feathered guys ...cartoon I tell ya...Pardon me my American friends but football (the real one) is the thing...:naughty:

:lol3: I played american football for 8 years, and I actually have to agree with you.

I'm looking forward to the World Cup, way more than I was for the superbowl.

Our loss to Brazil in the Confederations cup final was heartbreaking, especially after the 2-0 lead. :tears:

USA soccer is a legitimate force now, can't wait for summer.

[SteveX]

SNIPPED

B. said IP's geolocate back to what is likely a temporary office suite in florida...(that tends to scream 'gov private contractor')



I can just about use a computer but would love to know how you can track a buildings address of an IP. Please spill the beans.

Regards
SteveX

[trainedobserver]

To post this kind of invention is a real slap in the face to the real-deal folk. I wrote to Kinsuemei that he does not deserve the time of day from any one of these very fine people.


I applaud your investigation and decision then Bill. The number of people attempting to break into the faux-reality show must make for a lot of busy work I am sure.

[Phoenix]

http://cqcounter.com/whois/

[Zeddo]

edit : need to read all posts first

[Zeddo]

this whole issue of multiple personalities brings this scene to mind....

7Dnf1I3Twps

would you prefer chocolate or vanilla ?

[Jack]

I agree if there was "mis information"..we should know..

The dude was giving people the impression that truth were lies, and lies were truth. In my own honest opinion.

People should not give their opinion on something they know nothing about, and he done that some. Condemnation without investigation is the absolute height of ignorance, another reason why we live in such an age of distrustful ignorance.

My story is unbelievable, but I experienced it so have others around me, anybody who thinks its bogus can kiss my ass as I don't really care, I don't believe a word DW says as he packaged all his info in the same way for the 2000 ascension that never came, so now he is simply re doing the same **** he was marketing ten years ago, the rest are interesting but unless I experience what they do, we shall have to wait and see, one fact I do know is that if you are privy to top secret information the government will kill you if you try to go public with it, Project Camelot having the info or part of it does not make you safe in anyway.
I recently lost Dr Heather JJ Anderson and her story will now not get out as people around her and who have helped her are legitimately dead, not in "Another Realm" as Kerry Cassidey has asked me about and her info did exist as I was also grilled over, I wonder if he ever did grill DW about that RA **** For a start, that whole paragraph right there leads people to believe that what David Wilcock is sharing about an evolution in consciousness is bullcrap.

Bullcrap it might be if it were not for the enormous amount of information that backs up what David is saying extremely well. The truth needs not lies to prop itself up, and the same is certainly true for this. One persons "opinion" can lead to thousands of peoples ignorance, and now is not the time for invalid opinions. If someone does not know what their talking about then for the respect of their brothers and sisters, the rest of humanity, they should keep their lips pressed tightly together and their ears sprung open.



So what’s so bad about someone sharing their opinion you say?

One passionate person preaching the wrong message can do more harm then a pocket full of scorpions. If people want humanity out of the mess its in (which some obviously don’t) then they better learn to keep those pretty little lips sealed unless they know what their talking about and can provide all of the substantial evidence to support such claims. Were not looking for the moon on a plate here, just somethin we can get our mouths around.



You'll have to excuse my passionate take on this, but i hate liars. Especially when they make out the people who are telling the truth to be complete lunatics or the famous "money grabbin charlaten"

Mod edit by Uncle John to delete curse word. BTW, Jack, I hate them too.

[burgundia]

I am glad I didn't read his posts....

[K626]

The dude was giving people the impression that truth were lies, and lies were truth. In my own honest opinion.
People should not give their opinion on something they know nothing about, and he done that some. Condemnation without investigation is the absolute height of ignorance, another reason why we live in such an age of distrustful ignorance.
[mod snip - please do not include the entirety of long quotes]

Humanity isn't in a mess. Only a tiny fraction of it.

[mntruthseeker]

I cant believe how this is playing out.

First of all Jack, I agree with what Kinsuemie2 had to say about DW

So I guess you have something now to say about me.

I could care less.................I am only in here to read the postings now and to heck with trying to say anything as I can see that it is "disected " very well unless of course you are one that goes along with everyone else

I want to say that no one has facts that Kinsuemei was lying.....its based on their opinion. Prove he was lying before you start calling him one.

As far as DW goes..................I wouldn't say he was full of it because most of what he says comes from other people. He studies online just like any good seeker would. Is he always right ? NO

Does he get banned for saying sexist remarks or his sexist actions ? NO

So like I said, those that judge Kinsuemei2 are not doing it on facts.

I dont care how many people say congrats to the mods.......I say a mod stepped over the line...............so ban me now for being honest.

DW's actions are on video so I know he has made the sexist remarks.......Another person came forward with what she seen and I find it very distastefull but I'm not surprised.

So I think it takes alot of guts to call someone a liar without facts.

Like Anchor says, many people can use the same IP # but I did a search on Kimsuemei2 and his is a private residence.......One that others on same line can use. IP# is your direct link to internet. A corporation may use many or what Anchor describes as a proxy server

So unless anyone has solid proof that he lied about something, I would be very careful about insinuating anything.


I am through with P/A...........its gotten to be nothing more than a place that points fingers without justification

Oh yeah, I remember having this sort of thing happened in grade school

No I will not say good job on investigating to anyone. I will say......Who are you to judge ?

Not one person in this forum and I dont care who you are has a right to judge another.

[SteveX]

Mrtruthseeker, forgive me if I'm wrong but I get the impression you haven't read every reply in the whole thread.... especially the one from Bill.

They got a hunch he was spinning a yarn in private e-mails to Bill and Kerry. Once that hunch was acted upon the banned fellows story fell apart. So much so that he said a star witness just got killed in a car crash another witness escaped by boat and the fellow had no less than 4 ID's here.... It's all in this thread.

If, on the other hand you have read Bills explanation I think it unreasonable of you to think because Bill hasn't seen, for want of a better word, the body... then he shouldn't presume.

If it qwaks like a duck, walks like a duck...then more than likely it is a duck.

[Céline]

i vote this thread be closed...

[Stargazer1965]

I cant believe how this is playing out.
First of all Jack, I agree with what Kinsuemie2 had to say about DW
So I guess you have something now to say about me.
[mod snip - please do not include the entirety of long quotes]

Sorry not done Yet Celine

I traced that IP a little farther down the line......Looks like a Long term living hotel.

I could have 100 rooms and they would all look like the same IP if I traced them....

Not fueling any fires...trying to be fair here

[swordsmith]

yeah, and you kin sue me 2! :crybaby::fish:

[Céline]

Sorry not done Yet Celine
Not fueling any fires...trying to be fair here

No apology needed..but i doubt there is anything productive in continuing this thread.

[Stargazer1965]

No apology needed..but i doubt there is anything productive in continuing this thread.

If someone accused me of being deceitful....I would hope folks would look a little deeper for some truth.

Isn't that why we are here?

Peace Y'all

[Céline]

i am certain Bill and the mods investigated this thoroughly

[swordsmith]

somethings fishy at any rate.

no seriously, this is a timely thread, I appreciate the transparency it's the name of the game these days.
Don't judge the judgers, its a contradiction.
Obviously there is something to learn here and an air clearing is always good . I'm also glad we can call David Wilcox a spade without being banned , too. :wink2:

[Stargazer1965]

i am certain Bill and the mods investigated this thoroughly
I have a lifetime in IT (techy stuff)....there are sites and programs that feed us back generalities....from there we have to infer.....SG

[Jack]

Thats fair enough mntruthseeker, I've nothing bad to say about you. I know your an honest individual.

My point being, its not healthy to bash an entire concept because of one man. Sure, if someone disagrees with some of the things David says, thats fair enough, because i disagree with a fair amount of his information myself. The key here is to elaborate, Davids work covers a lot of ground.

But, bashing an entire concept to the point of insinuating that there is not an evolution in the consciousness of not only humanity but Gaia as well is as outrageous as someone stating the world is flat. That is Disinformation and at this stage in the game its downright dangerous. Thats where my beefs at.

And I'm not making this claim willy nilly, its after a lot of research that i'd be more then willing to share later on if you wish, just not right now, I'm experiencing some personal changes at the moment but will post later when the tides of life recede.

[Stargazer1965]

Thats fair enough stargazer, I've nothing bad to say about you. I know your an honest individual.

My point being, its not healthy to bash an entire concept because of one man. Sure, if someone disagrees with some of the things David says, thats fair enough, because i disagree with a fair amount of his information myself. The key here is to elaborate, Davids work covers a lot of ground.

But, bashing an entire concept to the point of insinuating that there is not an evolution in the consciousness of not only humanity but Gaia as well is as outrageous as someone stating the world is flat. That is Disinformation and at this stage in the game its downright dangerous. Thats where my beefs at.

And I'm not making this claim willy nilly, its after a lot of research that i'd be more then willing to share later on if you wish, just not right now, I'm experiencing some personal changes at the moment but will post later when the tides of life recede.
Thanks Jack....

I think we are getting the message and the messenger confused here.

DW has made several off color remarks about sex and women....It gave me the "creepy" vibe and I'm a guy.

His message is a good an honest one.....Like I stated before :The bright spotlight brings out many things.

I would not want to be debated here about my honesty or my credibility.

I'm sure I could not stand up to that ....nor would I want to be accused of something...banned ...and no one stand up for me either.

Peace

[Céline]

Many here have stood up for him....look at the amount of posts here

[Steven]

...insinuating that there is not an evolution in the consciousness of not only humanity but Gaia as well is as outrageous as someone stating the world is flat...

I do not rely on other information than my own personal point-of-view and the understanding of the mayan pyramid of evolution of consciousness to be totally convinced we are on a schedule with the Universe. The global consciousness evolves 'globally' and impacts are noticeable in the people behaviors.

That is why we see a lot of turmoils and also a lot of people investing with passion in their spirituality.

When I meet someone that find it all laughable, I silently bless the moment and know the laugh will not last for long...

Namaste, Steven

[Malletzky]

I wouldn't over/underestimate the IP issue here. WHy? Well, maybe this story will clarify some things, for the one that don't get this IP issue...

Some 8-9 years back, when I was a completely novice regarding internet in any possible mean, a friend of mine gave me a CD with a "very special program" as he said. It was a small program, which enabled the user to get any desired IP from anywhere in the world...even in a second tact. You know what this mean? That program just assigned another IP to my PC each and every second and if you would be on to trace me, you could think that I am on a different corner of this planet every other minute. :tongue2:

"Unfortunately", back then my PC was pretty slow, some 800 mhz Intel processor and 64 mb DDRAM main storage...so you can imagine that this program just took almost all free resources and I had to dismiss it.

There are some free and very good programms on the net avaliable now...if any of you just feel scared that your pc might be monitored :thumb_yello:

I totaly agree that everyone using multiple "personalities" here on this forum should be baned...forever. !!! So well done here!

with respect
malletzky

[Jack]

Thanks Jack....
I think we are getting the message and the messenger confused here.
DW has made several off color remarks about sex and women....It gave me the "creepy" vibe and I'm a guy.
His message is a good an honest one.....Like I stated before :The bright spotlight brings out many things.
I would not want to be debated here about my honesty or my credibility.
I'm sure I could not stand up to that ....nor would I want to be accused of something...banned ...and no one stand up for me either. Peace

I dunno why i thought it was you that said that, i was replying to mntruthseekers post thinking it was you and scratching my head a bit at stargazers new energy lol

[Jack]

I do not rely on other information than my own personal point-of-view and the understanding of the mayan pyramid of evolution of consciousness to be totally convinced we are on a schedule with the Universe. The global consciousness evolves 'globally' and impacts are noticeable in the people behaviors.

That is why we see a lot of turmoils and also a lot of people investing with passion in their spirituality.

When I meet someone that find it all laughable, I silently bless the moment and know the laugh will not last for long...

Namaste, Steven

The Mayan pyramid of consciousness really says it huh

As well as that intuition (as well as my clock saying 20:12 (its slow) while i write this lol)

I would hope that everyone who visits this forum has access to this fundamentally important truth, its implications so profound on ourselves as spiritual beings that noone has the right to lie about it consequently running the risk of denying someones chance at making some major spiritual progress.

[Anchor]

Mod hat off.

Personally I didn't like the fact that the IP address was posted at all. (This is not dissent by the way,
I expressed my opinion on that to Bill already; he made the call and has stood for it). I respect the decision, but you can see by the ensuing thread exactly why this kind of thing is unwise.

How much personal information should be disclosed to proove a point? Real names, real addresses, all IP addresses used, email addresses, private email (no matter how distorted in terms of the truth contained therein)? In my personal opinion this should never be done unless the opportunity for natural justice exists, and it does not in this context.

With what has been presented here, you cannot leap to conclusions with 100% certainty, I think the idea was to show that this was not done lightly, nor on some whimsical judgement.

Speaking personally I do also know that there was additional information (and not just from Bill) that supports Bill Ryan's conclusion. I would rather not see any of it made public.

A..

PS: Listen to Jack ;)

[Steven]

...The Mayan pyramid of consciousness really says it huh. As well as that intuition (as well as my clock saying 20:12 (its slow) while i write this lol...

:naughty: there is no coincidence imo. Take a quick look, it's on the pyramid of evolution of consciousness: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showpost.php?p=175219&postcount=25

Namaste, Steven

[Myra]

I've been reading his posts and see nothing that would justify this action. He has a right to his opinion and sharing his story is what folks do here.

Well who banned him and why? Carol, if I were you I would find this out. There is NO reason he should be banned. Bring Kinsuemei2 back!!!

*Nevermind asking, I read the rest of the other posts, I guess you spoke to Bill*

Sounds bizarre. :hypo:

[TRANCOSO]

[mod deletion-Private messages are not to be posted on a public forum]
That is exactly what I've also learned, doing Wado Kai karate for a couple of years. He knows what he's talking about. I find it rather odd though, that someone with his alledged skills, is blowing his own trumpet. That's actually very 'not done'.

[Carol]

I still find it ironic that francie jones was banned for posting Bill's email to her but Bill posts others emails here.

Now here is my personal rant. We all learned way back when that anything electronically written can be seen by those who have the means to do so. Subsequently I learned not to electronically post info that couldn't be shared with the world at large. This was a lesson learned years ago.

That being said, my view is that electronic emails belong to the receiver of the email not the sender, unless identified in the text of the email which it is with financial and legal transactions. Personal "unsolicited" emails are fair game in my book and in some instances can be used in court against the sender. In fact, emails sent by employees in a business belong to the business where the owner(s) of the business can have access at any time to their employee's emails. Those emails do NOT belong to the sender. So how does it stand that francie jones gets banned given what has happened in this thread alone? If Bill can post a member's IP why can't francie post what he wrote to her regarding Cliff High?

[TempestGarden]

Personally I didn't like the fact that the IP address was posted at all. (This is not dissent by the way,
I expressed my opinion on that to Bill already; he made the call and has stood for it). I respect the decision, but you can see by the ensuing thread exactly why this kind of thing is unwise. How much personal information should be disclosed to proove a point? Real names, real addresses, all IP addresses used, email addresses, private email (no matter how distorted in terms of the truth contained therein)? In my personal opinion this should never be done unless the opportunity for natural justice exists, and it does not in this context.


I agree 100% with this assessment. We now know the answer as to why this poster has been banned and I think the IP address information should be removed by Bill from his post, at the very least.

[Anchor]

Good idea, I will see if that can be done.

[PilotSimone]

I unexpectedly appreciate this thread for a number of reasons which I will share:

Carol the OP, for her concern over an Avalonion comrades ban,

The contributing Mods, for their efforts in finding out why said ban was imposed,

Bill, for his openness and apparent honesty in evidencing his own decision to impose the ban and his posting of the details for us all to see.

This gives added credence to PC/PA as a whole, I am more inclined to believe that should it come to Bill's attention, that a recorded and shared testimony found after the fact to be a fabrication, he would equally evidence it to the forum, regardless from whom it came.

I am not saying Bill or Kerry believe all their interviewees to be necessarily factual, however it indicates to me (and hopefully to you too) that at least the testimonies they do record, are not known to be fabrications, and that if sufficient evidence does indeed come to light that any actually were "hoaxed" for whatever reason, we would all get to hear about it, right?

So (IMO) a positive outcome from a negative situation, perhaps the truth indeed shines through and we are better for it.

Love this post! :original:

[Sideshow Shaman]

I agree 100% with this assessment. We now know the answer as to why this poster has been banned and I think the IP address information should be removed by Bill from his post, at the very least.

Not really necessary. The IP in question traced back to an "Intown Suites" hotel in Jacksonville FL. Not like it was a permanent, individual, home address. The person probably has or will move on. Would be curious to know how long they broadcast that IP.

keywords: geolocating IP (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=geolocating+IP&aq=f&aqi=g-sx2g-s1g-sx7&oq=)

Loved that post by Curative too.

[Harry_CDN]

I wouldn't over/underestimate the IP issue here. WHy? Well, maybe this story will clarify some things, for the one that don't get this IP issue...

Some 8-9 years back, when I was a completely novice regarding internet in any possible mean, a friend of mine gave me a CD with a "very special program" as he said. It was a small program, which enabled the user to get any desired IP from anywhere in the world...even in a second tact. You know what this mean? That program just assigned another IP to my PC each and every second and if you would be on to trace me, you could think that I am on a different corner of this planet every other minute. :tongue2:

"Unfortunately", back then my PC was pretty slow, some 800 mhz Intel processor and 64 mb DDRAM main storage...so you can imagine that this program just took almost all free resources and I had to dismiss it.

There are some free and very good programms on the net avaliable now...if any of you just feel scared that your pc might be monitored :thumb_yello:

I totaly agree that everyone using multiple "personalities" here on this forum should be baned...forever. !!! So well done here!

with respect
malletzky

I find the IP changer concept very interesting but it raises more questions.

1. Static IPs handed out by any ISP must belong to them. Therefore, even if you keep switching IPs wouldn't the lookup not point back to the owner of the IP block?

2. If you use a 3rd party company beyond your ISP, then wouldn't the IPs belong to that company(3rd party)?

3. Most ISPs are now using DHCP for customer IPs, this means the server hands you an IP for a leased period of time. ie maybe a week After that period, the server will issue another IP from its pool for another leased period of time?

[TRANCOSO]

PA is the only forum of sorts with an avarage 90 - 100 members online, apart from the 250 - 300 guests.
I'm actually amazed about the few trolls there are, since it became a 'free' forum again.

I've had an argument with the moderators once, and I can assure you that you really have to f#ck things up, to get banned.

Even when we disagree, we are quite friendly towards eachother, which isn't always easy.

I like PA more than a lot because of that.

If real life society was like PA, the world would be better off than it is now.

The fact that the moderators joined the discussion on this thread, says enough.

We, as members, are Project Avalon, and we should keep in mind that we can be an example for the rest of the world, how things can be.

:tongue2::lightsabre::naughty:

[morguana]

PA is the only forum of sorts with an avarage 90 - 100 members online, apart from the 250 - 300 guests.
I'm actually amazed about the few trolls there are, since it became a 'free' forum again.

I've had an argument with the moderators once, and I can assure you that you really have to f#ck things up, to get banned.

Even when we disagree, we are quite friendly towards eachother, which isn't always easy.

I like PA more than a lot because of that.

If real life society was like PA, the world would be better off than it is now.

The fact that the moderators joined the discussion on this thread, says enough.

We, as members, are Project Avalon, and we should keep in mind that we can be an example for the rest of the world, how things can be.

:tongue2::lightsabre::naughty:

thank you transco for your supportive words, and yes we try every other avenue before anyone has their subscription deactivated. we dont like to ban folk, but sometimes for the integrity of the forum we do have to unfortunatly take action. i would rather that folk were honest and compassionate towards each other and able to self moderate.....but sometimes that doesnt happen :tears:. sometimes we just get a few folk who are out to cause trouble and that is not conducive to the over all energy of this special place.......
i became a mod to help out because i love this place, i care greatly for folk here and not to ban or delete threads (but sometimes it has to be done).

love to you all
m x

[Phtha]

The trolls cant handle the strong love trills that thrill the air here.
:darthvader::boxing:+:wub2::harp::huglove:=:diespa m::boxed:

PA is the only forum of sorts with an avarage 90 - 100 members online, apart from the 250 - 300 guests.
I'm actually amazed about the few trolls there are, since it became a 'free' forum again.

[burgundia]

The thing about Franciejones makes me think...

[gibonos]

@carol
That being said, my view is that electronic emails belong to the receiver of the email not the sender,

Totally disagree!!
It's like saying someone told you a secret (in person) and from that moment it's yours to do whatever you want with it. If it's pm it's between 2 people.
I guess bill posted evidence here to cut speculation, btw it's a different ball game when you post and get banned than get banned and proof is shown.

gibonos

[Ammit]

I fully understand that something was said or done to have this chap/chapess banned, I dont believe any real details should be disclosed to backup a reason for it.

Nor do I believe that Bill should have displayed details as he did. I know it was probably done to quiet the apparent anger here but, personal details no matter what they are should remain private.

However what is done, is done...

Lets hope no more private information gets disclosed by anyone, visitor, member or founder as this would only lead to a distrust situation.

[Stargazer1965]

I fully understand that something was said or done to have this chap/chapess banned, I dont believe any real details should be disclosed to backup a reason for it.

Nor do I believe that Bill should have displayed details as he did. I know it was probably done to quiet the apparent anger here but, personal details no matter what they are should remain private.

However what is done, is done...

Lets hope no more private information gets disclosed by anyone, visitor, member or founder as this would only lead to a distrust situation.

I agree to a point Ammit.......Info was displayed to damn someone....not to exonerate.

We are a paranoid bunch...or we would not be here.

I've had folks reveal things to me and I go ...TMI !!!!!!!!!!!

I guess in the end.....We have to follow along with what the owner wants and believe what we are told.

It's a hard pill to swallow here and elsewhere

Peace

[seeingterra]

Lol mods, I get the PM rule, but the post you deleted was actually something kinsuemei2 gave me for publishing, and does in fact have a copy on PLW, should I rather quote from there then instead of the PM who got the exact same message?

Just wondering..

[TruthWillSetUFree]

IMO when a person INTENTIONALLY goes to such great lengths of being deceitful and dishonest he/she has forfeited their right to their privacy, in this instance their IP addresses.

If you are presenting yourself honestly here one should have nothing to hide or be dishonest about

I think the new paradigm is about situational ethics instead of the old paradigm of being black or white.

What may be valid in one instance may not be in a similar one and should be evaluated in a case by case basis.

I think this is what was done here with mr can sue me too..LOL that was a good one, as all aspects of his behavior were considered before banning


Truth

[Juno]

IMO when a person INTENTIONALLY goes to such great lengths of being deceitful and dishonest he/she has forfeited their right to their privacy, in this instance their IP addresses.

If you are presenting yourself honestly here one should have nothing to hide or be dishonest about


no no no no no....

if you know anything about computer security, an IP address is akin to a physical street address. it is the address of that person's computer. any pre-teen with a freeware port scanner can figure out how to get inside.

BILL knows this...

so...

it is like BILL saying 'i have determined this guy to be no good, he lives at 123 main st, anytown USA, go to his house, rattle his doors and windows, see which is unlocked and mess with him'.

so again...

WHY would BILL do this?

sticking with my earlier assessment....

it's a setup. the house is booby-trapped. also known as a honeypot in IT circles.

proceed at your own risk.

[SteveX]

I agree to a point Ammit.......Info was displayed to damn someone....not to exonerate.

I take the complete opposite stance and here's why.

1) If the reason for the ban wasn't made clear some respect by the subscribers may be lost.
2) Most definitely the reason for secrecy would keep cropping up.
3) Left unchecked dissention and PARANOIA would set in.
4) The banned person would have an open door to spread hatred and rumours here or on other sites.
5) Discloser is a core principle of the site...don't you think?

If we read through the lines of Bills brief explanation we can deduce that Bill and Kerry were being enticed, maliciously or otherwise, into a position that if they had followed through, their integrity and this sites integrity could / would be compromised. Bill has exonerated himself from that possibility and any other spiteful follow ups caused by the ban.

If someone kicked me in the nuts I would return the favour by putting on me steel toe capped boots and, taking a run up, I would drop kick their knackers clean out the stadium.... but that’s just me :tongue2:

[SteveX]

SNIPPED
so again...
WHY would BILL do this?
sticking with my earlier assessment....
it's a setup. the house is booby-trapped. also known as a honeypot in IT circles.
proceed at your own risk.

So...err let me think.

Bill has concocted a whole factious elaborate scenario to have people go to one particular computer.... for?

The banned guy deliberately got himself banned in the hope Bill would publish the IP so he could hack all computers going to his computer?

Your logic is unsound. Your motives are unclear. I am tempted to speculate but I don't have access to critical information http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-think005.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

[Juno]

So...err let me think.

Bill has concocted a whole factious elaborate scenario to have people go to one particular computer.... for?

The banned guy deliberately got himself banned in the hope Bill would publish the IP so he could hack all computers going to his computer?

Your logic is unsound. Your motives are unclear. I am tempted to speculate but I don't have access to critical information http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-think005.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

no, logic not flawed.

you don't know how the internet works. that's ok.

[TruthWillSetUFree]

no no no no no....

if you know anything about computer security, an IP address is akin to a physical street address. it is the address of that person's computer. any pre-teen with a freeware port scanner can figure out how to get inside.

BILL knows this...

Yes and so did they guy who created this whole scenario, as should everyone who is being dishonest, maybe it will teach them a lesson now that duplicate IP addresses will be suspect and investigated.

Like I said, in all cases no, one should not put out IP addresses, in THIS case it was warranted because of HIS behavior.

Like the blind men and the elephant, each of us only knew one part of the story (or the elephant), Bill let us in on the entire story

Remember what is done in the dark of secrecy is usually up to no good


If one plays in deceit, expect to get burned, especially now in "the Age of Ethics"

The guy clearly created his own reality here we all have an ethical responsibility to the forum that we are who we say we are to our fellow Avalonians, this is sacred and pure, he brought in deceit and dishonesty..period, end of story

[SteveX]

no, logic not flawed.

you don't know how the internet works. that's ok.

Awe! now I'm feeling all-inadequate. I'm even getting a little paranoid because I don't really know how the Internet works.

Ok lets try another track. What possible motive would Bill have for enticing his subscribers to go to potential trap?

If he had a motive then that means the guy that got banned is in on the whole scheme.... or this whole thing is an elaborate scenario?

[Jack]

If one plays in deceit, expect to get burned, especially now in "the Age of Ethics"

The guy clearly created his own reality here we all have an ethical responsibility to the forum that we are who we say we are to our fellow Avalonians, this is sacred and pure, he brought in deceit and dishonesty..period, end of story
Here here

Were living in a world with virtually zero accountability and as a result were getting shafted around every corner. Our politicians tell us left is right and right is blue. They have gone so far with the lies that Doctors, "Givers of Health" are now the number 3 cause of death in the united states alone. Why? Because they are privileged with virtually zero accountability, you must remember that they are only just "practicing" medicine on us with our full consent. Reminds me of someone putting an apple on their head while a blind man "practices" trying to shoot it off.


Where education is now the process of dumbing down a race of extremely powerful beings in order for lower evolved beings to take advantage of their ignorance. Why? Zero accountability for the teachers. They shouldn't be teaching if they are not aware of the spiritual nature of this world, the absolute essence of it. But this again, is people not being fully accountable for their actions.

Justice now stands for anything but, its now become a revenue generating super machine that takes the little bit we have left after we've put food in our mouths. Why? Because of zero accountability for the dudes who make the laws, they get away with virtually the most Orwellian acts and people just keep on moving on as if nothing happened.

Full accountability or shut it. People who are acting in love and respect for this world and its people will have nothing to worry about if anyone has their address (apart from maybe a box of chocolates or the occasional bouquet). People who are living in the heart have all the protection they need, and those who are not living in the heart, well, your on your own buddies.

[Juno]

Awe! now I'm feeling all-inadequate. I'm even getting a little paranoid because I don't really know how the Internet works.

Ok lets try another track. What possible motive would Bill have for enticing his subscribers to go to potential trap?

If he had a motive then that means the guy that got banned is in on the whole scheme.... or this whole thing is an elaborate scenario?

btw..wasn't being insulting. for the record, i don't even know how ALL of it works....

and yeah...

seems crazy, doesn't it?

but this is some crazy stuff we're mixed up in :)

peace...out...

@jack

please don't misquote me. honest mistake, i know.

[eleni]

Nope, as someone involved from the begining in this mess, I can honestly say and verify Bill R did not create this- he just took action against what he feels is false information.

Bill actually was steering clear of this story from the get-go.

[Jack]

btw..wasn't being insulting. for the record, i don't even know how ALL of it works....
and yeah...seems crazy, doesn't it? but this is some crazy stuff we're mixed up in :)peace...out...@jack please don't misquote me. honest mistake, i know.

woops, sorry your right.

[Céline]

i can not believe this thread is still going..:wall:

[SteveX]

Juno

Phew... Thank gawd for that. At least both of us don't know how the internet works. Supposition could be :zip: by plain simple honest facts.

[Agape]

Awe! now I'm feeling all-inadequate. I'm even getting a little paranoid because I don't really know how the Internet works.

Ok lets try another track. What possible motive would Bill have for enticing his subscribers to go to potential trap?

If he had a motive then that means the guy that got banned is in on the whole scheme.... or this whole thing is an elaborate scenario?

Good morning . Excuse me mixing to the debate .

I do understand Junos' point. There could be more to the guy ( Kinsuemei2) than we know, or will ever know. Information, disinformation, conspiracy source , etc. Or just a big foolishness , that's enough to say ..
Can you or me find out, no. I'm not a hacker. I can hack to your mind but not to your computer :naughty: Even the first thing I'd not do without serious reasons.

But those working for agencies and against them, do not share the same moral views, do they. They can have a look to all our computers without we ever notice .

From my angle of perspective, but that's personal, someone boasting about being 'supersoldier' here, presenting traumatizing info , starting from having cancer and going to die , is feeling offensive .
Unfortunatelly, there are some big boys and girls who have nothing better to do than asign themselves heroic roles and think that they'll move world in their 'avatars' clothes.

The sad chance is that this type of personality Kinsuemei2 has exhibited shows he was abused one way or another but it points to chronical lier as well.

Showing compassion to such a person only means that he/she will supply you with new complicate reasons and stories of what's going on . That's why, unless you KNOW better than me, I advice you not to contact him.

There is one good reason why Bill has posted
his computer IP I believe . The type of people he is often go from one board to another presenting weird stories , this is likely to repeat .

Or make everyone think little better. Teachers come in disguise, sometimes..


Just my few cents. I was shocked when I've read the first posting about Kinsuenmei & cancer. Thought, why on earth people do not react to this, why they do not ask. Are we all so afraid of one another .
In a way we are ..

Good morning again :cup:


A

[Agape]

i can not believe this thread is still going..:wall:

When I appear they'll lock it soon don't worry :lol3:


Hugs

A

[haibane]

an IP address is akin to a physical street address. it is the address of that person's computer. any pre-teen with a freeware port scanner can figure out how to get inside.

Right. A street address of a router with a ****load of private IPs hidden behind it, a mail server, proxy server ... Is that what you mean? (^__~ )

[SteveX]

There is one good reason why Bill has posted his computer IP I believe . The type of people he is often go from one board to another presenting weird stories , this is likely to repeat .

This is what I alluded to when replying to Stargazer1965 (near top of page).

[Agape]

This is what I alluded to when replying to Stargazer1965 (near top of page).

That's right and again I'm sorry to stirr this debate . But I think that for spreading lies on site of this type ( not a kids sci-fi game forum, correct ?) ,
he's not received any bad treatment.

And, he;s just step or two behind some less transparent, well established names and figures who almost make their living from similar claims, publish 'authentic' testimonies , go conferencing , create cults ...websites etc.

A

[Carol]

Agape is correct in the assessment pertaining to Kinsuemei's behavior. Lying and putting up false fronts is just not right, creates confusion, leads to unnecessary stress and adds to the disinformation that is already out there. His story was fascinating but now we don't know if it was all fabrication or if there were some kernels of truth in it. He totally undermined himself and destroyed the trust that others gave to him thinking he was originally telling the truth. Whether he was abused or not isn't the issue. I know lots of folks who have been abused and have gone on to do very positive things in their lives. The issue is how he chooses to present himself in the world (on forums) and what type of relationships he will have as a result of his behavior. I don't think badly of Kinsuemei. I feel sorry for him and what he subsequently will be missing out on here in this forum. However, I am disappointed that he choose to snooker us because when all is said and done it just goes to show he didn't respect us enough to be honest from the onset.

[swordsmith]

... it just goes to show he didn't respect us enough to be honest from the onset.

did not respect HIMSELF enough . Sad, but this is what happens on forums . A lot of self haters get their kicks making stuff up. Delusions of grandeur and all that.

[morguana]

hi we are closing this thread for now, its abit like driving on the spagetti junction.....going round and round and not really getting anywhere :wall:....so sorry folks :original:
love
m x

[Kerry Cassidy]

I've been reading his posts and see nothing that would justify this action. He has a right to his opinion and sharing his story is what folks do here.

MODERATORS PLEASE UN BAN KINSUEMEI2 -- this member has been banned for no good reason. I object and I request that he be reinstated.

Kerry Cassidy
Co-Founder
Project Camelot and Project Avalon

[Bill Ryan]

MODERATORS PLEASE UN BAN KINSUEMEI2 -- this member has been banned for no good reason. I object and I request that he be reinstated.

Kerry Cassidy
Co-Founder
Project Camelot and Project Avalon

Dear All,

in the next few hours the mods will receive more written messages from 'Heather' in the form of a compilation of Avalon PMs and Facebook messages.

Let's see if those were dictated, too.

When the mods have all the available information, they will make the call about whether Kinsuemei2 was a hoaxer.

This is what's at stake - because he posted this information on his thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=182138#post182138). It's not just dragging the Avalon Forum into Camelot's business. It IS Avalon's business.

If the mods decide he was a hoaxer, then he should be banned - in my strong opinion.

If he was not a hoaxer, then he should be reinstated.

I suggest that at this stage the evidence (not including the new written material we've not seen) is so overwhelming that not all these things can be true...

1) Heather was real
2) Heather was an MD
3) Heather was a black projects whistleblower

... that the onus is on Kinsuemei to show that the above items ARE true. He has the clear opportunity to do this. I'm waiting.

If she really was an MD, for instance, her name will be on public record.

If she really was killed in a traffic accident, there will be a police report in Berlin. (I can get that, if I know what name and date to request.)

So the ball is in the mods' court on this one. I suggest that what I've tabled above is reasonable.

This interesting drama is the result of both Kerry and myself each caring so much about Camelot's work. Paradoxically, the dissonance here is a product of Camelot's strength.

In Kerry's case, she doesn't want to see someone she regards as a potential whistleblower (assumed as such unless proven otherwise) being hurt and damaged. That is an honorable intention.

In my case, I consider this IS proven (but Kerry doesn't agree with my data evaluation) - and I don't want to see Camelot's reputation suffer by one of us believing and posting false information which (if so) can only damage the platform we provide for the REAL whistleblowers out there. That's honorable as well.

It's this latter point which is really what this is all about. We're talking about how Camelot does due diligence on the information we receive. And that's pretty important.

When all the information about 'Heather' is available, it'll be posted for everyone to see.

My best wishes to all, Bill

[GaiaLove]

MODERATORS PLEASE UN BAN KINSUEMEI2 -- this member has been banned for no good reason. I object and I request that he be reinstated.

Kerry Cassidy
Co-Founder
Project Camelot and Project Avalon

Dear All,

in the next few hours the mods will receive more written messages from 'Heather' in the form of a compilation of Avalon PMs and Facebook messages.

Let's see if those were dictated, too.

When the mods have all the available information, they will make the call about whether Kinsuemei2 was a hoaxer.

This is what's at stake - because he posted this information on his thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=182138#post182138). It's not just dragging the Avalon Forum into Camelot's business. It IS Avalon's business.

If the mods decide he was a hoaxer, then he should be banned - in my strong opinion.

If he was not a hoaxer, then he should be reinstated.

...

When all the information about 'Heather' is available, it'll be posted for everyone to see.

My best wishes to all, Bill


On behalf of the Avalon moderators I am posting this reply to our beloved founders and membership.
We have removed the ban on kinsuemie2 for the moment. This is not a response to Kerrys request
but a decision made by us as the first move towards uncovering the truth of this matter and setting it right.

We are reviewing the evidence that has been presented to us and will decide on the matter in the very near future.

We act only with the best interest of Avalon and its members.
In the meantime this and any other related threads will remain closed.

Thank you for your understanding

The Project Avalon Moderating Team

[Karen]

Permission to post:

Snippet of what Anchor wrote to kinsuemei2:
As you know we are not permitted to post emails or information we have on users in the public for obvious reasons, but so I am asking you if you would give us (the moderators) permission for us (the moderators) to post any private email that they have received from you in public. This will be added to the information given by you and/or HeatherJJAnderson to Bill and Kerry and it all could be posted on the public forum.

Answer from kinsuemei2:
Sent: Sunday, 14 February 2010 1:54 PM (this is Sydney, Australia time)
To: anchor@projectavalon.net
Subject: hello
Yes of course what ever I find out I shall let you know, it will probably be from marc as he has the real deal looking for heather/ Joanie if I hear anything I shall let you guys know, she could be fine, I don't know all I know is what I was told, but the possibilty remains that she wants to dissapear. I thank you in your moderation on this matter and do not want any incidents so you can expect my interaction to be observation for the moment so as to not ruffle any feathers.

Message from Karen:
I am not sure how it was that I was chosen to receive a copy of the letters sent to Bill and Kerry, and sometimes to a few other people by Kinsuemei2, but nonetheless, I did receive copies and had a bit of an exchange with Kinsuemei2. Those email conversations will be posted here by me, with permission, while the thread is still closed, and you will be given time to review them carefully before making any replies.

[Karen]

First, before I go back and post in chronological order, I want to let you all know - The information we are being told now is that Heather JJ Anderson, HeatherJJAnderson (http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/member.php?u=10288) was not killed in a car accident, that she has come out of hiding and is alive and well in Germany.

from kinsuemei2
to bill@projectcamelot.org,
kerry@projectcamelot.org,
karen@projectavalon.net,
anchor@projectavalon.net
date Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 8:49 PM (This time stamp is PST)
subject Kinsuemei2

I just called Marc (Marcus Sparacio (http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/member.php?u=10931)) he told me that Heather, called him at around 10:30/25 tonight and well they fought on the phone from what I gather but, she is in europe and fine, Eleni also skyped me and gave me a message that heather gave to her about her being in strasboerg? so I dunno all I can say is I am quite mad right now, as according to marc this is my fault she wanted to dissapear and I made such a big deal about avalon she could not do it succselfully I don't know what to do about it so, I dunno I need some advice on what to do now, because I just don't know.
But I am going to have adrink

Now I will post in chronological order.

[Karen]

Kinsuemei2 to Bill Ryan

from Kinsuemei2
to bill@projectcamelot.org,
[name deleted]
karen@projectavalon.net,
[name deleted]
date Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:44 AM (Time stamp is PST)
subject Skype me

I had a very long chat with my wife last night and she is very upset by this whole ordeal, the heather info was heathers info, you can not show me an ip address and a dictated letter when I had already stated to Kerry in a audio interview that you did not know about the fact she was living with us, or that she was extremely scared, as my wife said you need more than facts I already gave to you, now if you did not hear the interview that's fine, but still no excuse for dragging my name through the mud.

I have six people that delt with Heather, of course that is not her real name, one of those is the manager of the motel we stay at, now what do you want for your pound of flesh to clear my name shylock? her death certificate, a picture of her and my wife together, perhaps you want to speak to my wife? I have told Kerry I will give you what ever you ask for but not on the internet, I will come to CA and hand it to Kerry if needs be I have her phone numbers, BUT I WILL PROTECT MY FAMILY, you being upset about this won't change my mind and it does not excuse what you have done from the evidence I now have it appears intentionally


now if you want to talk skype me, Brimstone944 just skype me and talk to me thats all I ask, I am a fighter by trade so if you thought this was going to be easy.. sorry I don't walk away from people and I am not intimidated by you, but if you can call me a liar you had better be able to do it to me because email wont cut it

oh and check the IP I am not being funny I am just proving a point. I know your learning the ropes on the systems but if your people had bothered to check the MAC address that's a "physical" address you would see the difference, as heather was in the other room that we paid for and don't lie and say its in cali because

Result:
67.132.69.188

Country: United States
Region: FL
City: Boca Raton
Postal Code:
Latitude: 26.3739
Longitude: -80.1468
Metro Code: 548
Area Code: US

of course I am in Orlando not Boca the motel company use boca they must do, so how the moderator that said it was in California that was just a error on his part or a blatant lie. but please sykpe me, you owe me that much respect at least whilst people are talking about me, in fact if you wish to give me a time I will make sure I am available to talk to you, I am not a monster or will shout and ball and scream at you, I was angry, now I am just mildley annoyed at this because so much of MY TIME has been clearly wasted on making what I thought were freinds and trying to help a person, you forget that I clearly state ON THE INTERVIEW that the heather material was hers and up to you guys, I only wanted to get my story out, oh yes her story was so unbelievable give me a break, and my experience yes that is unbelievable I do give you that one, but to say that is to call many others liars too a good percentage of your ground crew at that point, if I were a dis-info guy I would have tuck tail and run by now but I am not I me and rather than censoring me, you should let me have my say.

tell me I am wrong? because you refuse to address my issues rationally or debate them at all, that only tells me that you have nothing to go on but a information I had already made you privy to, which was Heather was with us as stated when those emails were sent, the first few I wrote for her because she was ****ED UP excuse my french, I do or did not EVER deny that, so talk to me on skype and present me with something REAL or reactivate my account and stop slandering my name

All the Best Kinsuemei2

[Karen]

Email response of Kinsuemei2 to Bill's email allegations that he has found letters from both Kinsuemei2 and Heather to be from the same IP address and the word "solider" spelled the same way from both.
More information is given by Bill in Post #34 of this thread.

from Kinsuemei2
to bill@projectcamelot.org,
karen@projectavalon.net,
[name deleted]
[name deleted]
date Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 6:32 PM [time stamp is PST]
subject my last post to camelot

this is an outrage Bill you have posted comments about me that are untrue and you have disgraced my name, of course the emails were sent from my place again Dr Anderson was with us, my family we set her up in a motel room, she even used our lap top, I took the names KilaSolai and Kane944 TODAY mind you to try to reenter Camelot, now I can do this with my new name through a proxy mask, or you can reactivate Kinsuemei2 the choice is yours but make no mistake, I won't be talked about like a dog or have you refuse to answer my emails when you are clearly online here.

Now you missed the part when I told Kerry Cassidey about Dr Anderson staying with us and conveniently left it out of the blog you posted on Avalon... yes of course I read it, I am not stupid, I can mask and change my IP so you clearly must think me a fool... I did not mask my emails because they were sent from my rig of course as I did state in testimony to Kerry, now your assumptions are outrageous and I need more proof, in fact I would very much like to talk to you on skype and you can hear the pain in my wife's voice she has lost a true friend and you feel fit to dismiss it and act like god almighty, I have no problem with Camelot and shall never tarnish that name, I was upset earlier but you don't know or understand me Mr Ryan, I have a daughter she is 6, I refuse to send anymore of Anderson's info on line, I told Kerry this, and whilst nobody has even bothered to check the location in Orlando, then you have no call on this matter.


if you come to my doorstep and I have nothing for you then you can say what you wish until then you need revise your information, and I don't care what Duncain O Finoan says, as he seemed to contradict that last Thursday night. And if you are wondering about me and a super solider program I never said I was one, I know how to fight I know how to Kill, that's due to what I accomplished in Thailand. no super solider training as far as I know. It is possible as some events were very interesting over there and I experienced events I can not explain, and if you need further proof look at my face book Mr Ryan, two weeks ago my FRIENDS can address the fact that I was critically ill with sepsis, I had a misdiagnosed spider bite, I have pictures of the line going to my heart, for all to see, yet here I am two weeks later, with confirmed kidney damage, not a dent in the fender and I feel great. my doctor says that's not normal.

incidentally we thought it was recluse but it was actually a Black widow, oh and your IP tracker is wrong I am in Orlando Florida, not California, in fact my Ip says I am in Boca, it is possibly due to the fact this is a MOTEL, as told,

please take on board the fact that I try not to be offensive and I am just trying to help, if you don't believe me I don't give a dam but do not drag my name through the mud please.

ultimately I apologize if I have upset or if you felt mislead by any information, if you have watched any of my You-tube videos you can see for your self I tell it as I see it, if people don't like that too bad

but do not disrespect the memory of my friend again please and you need to retract that blog on Camelot because those proportions are not correct at all that is simply an assumption

I sincerely wish you the best and to the moderators who were only doing their jobs.

Kinsuemei2

P.S. I shall continue to promote and observe PC in a positive light, because one man makes a mistake that is not reason to protest the good work they have done, and I believe Duncans story and have no ill will towards him, but it's a free world and he can choose to believe what he wishes.

[Karen]

Email from Kinsuemei2 just to me. By this time I had not replied yet as I was quite perplexed by it all. I did reply to this, ending with

This whole thing sort of caught me by surprise.

I know Bill and Kerry have all kinds of people telling lies contacting them, so they use what they can to try to figure out who is telling the truth.

I'm very sorry if you have been falsely accused.

from kinsuemei2
to karen@projectavalon.net
date Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 3:11 PM [PST]
subject hello

Well I am sure yo viewed the back and forth between Bill and myself I am sorry to put you in the middle of that but he is wrong on this count, as I told Kerry in an audio interveiw, Heather was living with us, we put her up so of course she used my computer, and yeah I dictated a few emails once again I stated this in my intaial contact with Kerry that she would not come near the computer so this is a problem right now.

My wife is very concerned about the slander I am reciving at Avalon and it's taken a toll, she is Bill hurt her as well as myself and he needs to take responsibility for that and talk to her because he owes her and my kids an apology, he wont skype me so I can't respect a man that wont give me a say or face me on the same ground, this leads me to believe he is doing this out of spite or maliciousness, yeah I can't spell for beans.

this sucks as Heathers info again as I stated I gave the meat of it to kerry and if they wanted it great if not who cared my objective was my experience and that was all. and I told kerry this but my interveiw was not released. now I am being censored, bill wont talk to me and I have to use proxys to look at info thats being posted about me, I kind of think the post should be stopped as it is getting into the realms of legality here, tell me if I am wrong?

I am souley dealing with a few people that I trust in avalon and that trust me, and right now thats only a few, people seem to have an issue with people that live a full life at a young age, but hey, not to much I can do or say about this so I hope you are well and that you reamian so Karen you have my wishes
Kinsuemei2

[Anchor]

We are reviewing the evidence that has been presented to us and will decide on the matter in the very near future

Well said.

Those moderators on at the time, were of the view that unbanning kinsuemei2 was the right thing to do at the time - regardless of the outcome of the reviewing of available data. It should be added that no agreement has yet been made as to what that review/decision means at this time and it is something we need to work out.

The reason I wrote to kinsuemei2 for permission to post everything (now given) is that it is my hope that this will all be done out in the open, and thereby avoid the situation where we appear to be doing all this behind closed doors.

It is my hope that this "review" will simply be for completeness of the information before it is presented in public, and should not be judgmental on whether the information is true or untrue; since this is a task that the moderators are no better or worse equipped for than any forum member. A few moderators were in receipt of private mail that is pertinent to this situation and this now has to be collated - this will probably take a few days to get it all in order.

I apologize to the moderators & both Bill and Kerry, if I appear to be speaking out of turn with this post.

A..

[Karen]

To Duncan O'Finioan and me.

from Kinsuemei2
to dunc [email address deleted]
karen@projectavalon.net
date Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 8:10 AM [PST]
subject Hey guys

I have already addressed Aaron this is my response to Bill and an explanation to Dunc who must clearly think I am insane lol

http://www.youtube.com/user/kinsuemei2

It is not offensive in my opinion or degrades him in anyway, or PC
I would like to point out that I have never claimed to be a super solider, that was a idea and a feeling that Kerry had, I don't know what is going on with my head and memory issue's I am having and what has emerged, I do know that it is possible to multiple blows to the head as I do have holes in the ventricles of the brain, normal stuff for Thai Boxers with substantial time in the business.

I only ever told Kerry it was possible, and I have the Skype chat log of all my talks with Kerry, so if I needed to that can be submitted, I did mention I might have been activated one time, as I had a black out in NY that I do not want to talk about not through email anymore.
my memory kind of returned but it's not the focus of this.

Kerry also presented this to me

[11/4/2009 1:53:15 PM] Kerry Cassidy says: I just talked to duncan
[11/4/2009 1:53:31 PM] Kinsuemei2 says: thats great what did he say?
[11/4/2009 1:53:34 PM] Kerry Cassidy says: he picked up your last name and I never told him it.. he's that psychic
[11/4/2009 1:54:01 PM] Kerry Cassidy says: I sent him your email address

on skype I can screen shot it if you need that, what I was rambling like a mad man before was the fact that what Kerry told me about the info heather sent to you was different than what Bill said, and in fact I also know her info resonated with David Corso.

I simply want to try to bridge the gap of info here because two parties are telling me different things so Duncan if you can be brutally honest as always and share your opinion positive or negative it shall be well received at this end. I have also made the choice to continue to put out Anderson's work to great risk at this point, now if indeed Bill did do this to actually protect us, that also crossed my mind, as the best way to stop hard info from becoming a danger is to dam it. hence 17 years of David Ickes survival in a nutshell.

[Karen]

Karen
to kinsuemei2, dunc
Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:02 PM [PST]

Hi

Do you want me to share any of your 4 letters with the other moderators?
Was Heather still staying with you when she was in the car accident?
Do you think she was run off the road?
Are you going to release her real name?

Many Blessings,
Karen

[Karen]

Kinsuemei2's replies to my questons:

from kinsuemei2
to karen@projectavalon.net
date Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:43 PM
subject RE: Hey guys

sure by all means share it just so they know what you do, I don't know if she was run off the road, we used what we could and she was in Berlin when it happened visiting friends, they contacted me about her death, now I do not honestly know id she really is dead or not, I have been trying to find out more info but her friends are very illusive, my wife wants the whole thing to go away, but I promised some people in avalon that I will bring the information that I have to light, I have never hidden anything from Bill or Kerry, however I have never spoken to Bill in a one on one capacity, where as I have done so with Kerry many times and as I stated I have the logs to prove that.

No she was not with us when this happened, she had left not that long after, but she did still have a room account with the motel, my manager has said that he will sign an affidavit to this if needs be as the room was in her name, her real name, on record, the card on file was mine so that I paid but it does show that she was a guest, and I have that right now in black and white. again my only reason for not putting that out their is 1 my address lol and 2 her name linked to mine could cause problems if indeed she was... run off the road, now I still have questions in this, as to what was she driving, did her friends loan her a car, who was the car registered to and things like that so this is not the case of she is dead, lets forget about it... not at all this is my personal search to find out whats going on, unfortunately me being in Orlando the search is quite slow as the German authorities don't want to talk about any investigations that might involve Interpol or US federal cases, i don't know anything about European law like that or federal legislation so I honestly don't have a clue if that's true or not.

What i can tell you that I do know is she left the US in Florida, she entered into the UK from Southampton and where she went from there I don't know, but it appears she ended up in Germany, and it's very easy to move around Europe, much more so than the USA

but on a personal note do you think I should reveal her name? I don't know what to do about this and it keeps me up at night as I am always expecting a knock at the door.

I mean it's very easy for Bill to drop this and take responsibility, but I have to deal with the fall out of this as now if anything happens to my wife or kids or myself we really have no where to turn to for advice or anything, but as I said in my You-tube vid thank god for some good people.

My main concern is my family as I have stated but , I will get this info out and I shall make sure that you do get to look at it, weather PC will be involved and I highly doubt they will, I shall still give you a look at what we have, but we are working on the distribution of this material.

[Karen]

The next letter from Kinsuemei2 received today Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 4:59 PM [PST] needs more permissions obtained, and more clarifications.

[Karen]

It is my hope that this "review" will simply be for completeness of the information before it is presented in public, and should not be judgmental on whether the information is true or untrue; since this is a task that the moderators are no better or worse equipped for than any forum member. A few moderators were in receipt of private mail that is pertinent to this situation and this now has to be collated - this will probably take a few days to get it all in order.

Please be patient - take notes about what you would like to say. Don't start any new threads about this issue - they will probably be deleted or closed. There is more information coming from other parties, and you may find your opinions on this matter swaying in a different direction. I don't know - I have not seen that information.

[Karen]

Dear All,

in the next few hours the mods will receive more written messages from 'Heather' in the form of a compilation of Avalon PMs and Facebook messages.

Let's see if those were dictated, too.

When the mods have all the available information, they will make the call about whether Kinsuemei2 was a hoaxer.

This is what's at stake - because he posted this information on his thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=182138#post182138). It's not just dragging the Avalon Forum into Camelot's business. It IS Avalon's business.

If the mods decide he was a hoaxer, then he should be banned - in my strong opinion.

If he was not a hoaxer, then he should be reinstated.

I suggest that at this stage the evidence (not including the new written material we've not seen) is so overwhelming that not all these things can be true...

1) Heather was real
2) Heather was an MD
3) Heather was a black projects whistleblower

... that the onus is on Kinsuemei to show that the above items ARE true. He has the clear opportunity to do this. I'm waiting.

If she really was an MD, for instance, her name will be on public record.

If she really was killed in a traffic accident, there will be a police report in Berlin. (I can get that, if I know what name and date to request.)

So the ball is in the mods' court on this one. I suggest that what I've tabled above is reasonable.

This interesting drama is the result of both Kerry and myself each caring so much about Camelot's work. Paradoxically, the dissonance here is a product of Camelot's strength.

In Kerry's case, she doesn't want to see someone she regards as a potential whistleblower (assumed as such unless proven otherwise) being hurt and damaged. That is an honorable intention.

In my case, I consider this IS proven (but Kerry doesn't agree with my data evaluation) - and I don't want to see Camelot's reputation suffer by one of us believing and posting false information which (if so) can only damage the platform we provide for the REAL whistleblowers out there. That's honorable as well.

It's this latter point which is really what this is all about. We're talking about how Camelot does due diligence on the information we receive. And that's pretty important.

When all the information about 'Heather' is available, it'll be posted for everyone to see.

My best wishes to all, Bill

The moderators have declined to become involved at this level. I posted, with permission, the letters I received from Ben, so that his side could be heard by the forum members. Kinsuemei2 has asked for his membership to be removed as he no longer wants to be involved in this. Bill Ryan has issued an apology to Ben, and given a little more information at http://projectcamelot.org

http://projectcamelot.org/A personal note about the Heather Anderson affair:

The document that Kerry made available for public scrutiny is a poor one, written by someone with an educational level inconsistent with that required of an insider scientist of any description.

On the Project Avalon Forum, Heather refers to herself as "Dr Anderson", and another member (Marco) who claims he knew her, refers to her as an MD (i.e. a medical doctor). I very, very much doubt that this is true.

Identical repeated typos - e.g. SOLIDER for 'soldier' - occur in Ben Murphy's writing. Ben Murphy is the Project Avalon member, named in the published PDF, who claims that Heather was a real person whom he knew, and who, frightened and on the run, stayed with him and his wife for a while.

E-mails from both Ben and Heather have identical IP addresses. However, Ben explains this by saying that all Heather's messages were dictated by her to him. He also states that this is the reason the same dyslexic mistakes (SOLIDER, etc) occur in both his writing and hers.

When all the above became clear, I accused Ben of hoaxing the material, and banned him from the Project Avalon forum. I apologize to him here as there was not enough evidence - and more on the subject of evidence follows below - to justify a definite ban as a hoaxer.

I was angry that Camelot was being played. Indeed, Heather does seem to have been a real person. Camelot may indeed be being played, but not by Ben. A number of people are working quite hard on getting to the bottom of this little tangle on the grounds that it's just possible that what emerges might be important and valuable. For instance, we've recently heard that Heather is not dead after all, but has recently sent a message stating that she is in Strasbourg.

In the meantime, my strong personal opinion is that this is a waste of Camelot's time, and that we should focus on real whistleblowers (and real people) with provenance who are able to produce compelling evidence to support their claims. It's unfortunate that any of this reached the public. At best, it's a distraction. At worst, this is a sting operation against Project Camelot with the intention of discrediting our research.

In my view, those following our work expect us to apply intelligent due diligence to cross-check information that comes our way before publication. Also in my view, we have a duty of responsibility as gatekeepers, respected and followed by tens of thousands of people worldwide, to check the provenance of the information we record and report as carefully as possible while working in an arena which is awash with accidental and deliberate disinformation. It's my personal commitment to do good, solid research while remaining open to genuinely new and startling information - because the universe, as Sir Arthur Eddington famously stated, is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.

It's easy to make mistakes, or to be fooled by those with compelling cover stories and resources to back them up. I commend Kerry for her unstinting support for whistleblowers of every kind - and there are many kinds. We don't always get it right, and have both made mistakes. The nature of our work over the last three and a half years would have required one to be superhuman not to have been on a learning curve.

Our learning continues. We're pledged to share our journey with our readers and viewers. Kerry and I are united in our passion for the truth, and are both committed to giving our best to help the world become a better place through the free flow of information that has been withheld from the public by those who wish to control us for reasons of their own.

--Bill

[SteveX]

I think Bill put that clearly and politely. Even though the "evidence" was stacked heavily, in my opinion, on Bills side he none the less was Gentlemanly enough to publicly apologize.

After reading Marco last post (deleted) where he stated words to the effect of..."having spoken to her (heather) I can't help but think she's laughing at all of us." I think Bills gesture makes things more than even.

Hopefully both Kerry and Bill can put this behind them and move on. I look forward to move interviews, vids and conference material. :thumb_yello:

[Harry_CDN]

I believe much can be obtained from the full headers of any e-mail.