Vegetarians or Vegans? [Archive] - Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE)

ForsakenFalcon

09-16-2008, 05:50 AM

While I'm not a Vegetarians or Vegan I do respect the People whom choice to be & if I wasn't such a meat hungry dinosuare I'd be happy not eating once liveing animal's though I do belive it's with in our nature to eat meat and it does contribute towards brain and physical devoulpment.

Think about all the non civilised tribes (i use civilised losely) whom hunt and live in wood huts and the such the one's whom do have a reliable access to meat seem to out last those whom don't.

Both in physical health and storeing enough iron and othere protiens to outlast the winter & in the case's of tribal war's the one's whom are better feed are generaly the ones whom come out victorious.

Personaly though I could never farm and raise animals for the soul purpose of killing them to eat, to Me thats like killing and eating My children (if I had any) & in term's of Hunting well I'd rather pick up a bow & quiver and a hunting knife then that of a modern day riffle, if there is no risk on My behalf it seem's realy unfair lol.

Chris Parson

09-16-2008, 06:11 AM

i don't eat animals who love their mommies (i'll eat fish)

lohiaaditya

09-16-2008, 06:27 AM

Hi,

I dont know whether its a step towards ascesion or not, but considering my parental heritage I was brought up not eating Non vegetarian. There was a point in my life where I got the hint that eating Non Veg was 'cool'. I tried putting a piece of chicken in my mouth but I couldnt even touch it I dont know why. I was in school around where almost 95% of people were Non Veg and it was easy to get caught up but somehow I managed not to get caught in eating meat. And now its okay with me. I think if you know where to look for it, you ll find enough vegetarian dishes that are super delicoius so I have never felt the need of even trying it now. I dont think I ever will anyways. That was my viewpoint. :)

Bonnie

09-16-2008, 08:46 AM

Vegetarian here. After eating meat for a little over 30 years, I, all of a sudden, just did not want to consume it anymore. Now, this transition from eating meat to vegetarian, incidentally, also happened right around the time I was asking and looking for guidance for things like raising my consciousness/ascension. Is there a correlation between me wanting to raise my consciousness/ascension and transitioning into vegetarianism? I don't know. But, it is funny that these two things suddenly came into my life pretty much at the same time. I have heard a few people say that the road towards ascension does not necessarily mean one has to give up eating meat or certain foods, but others feel otherwise. Maybe, the best guide to let one know whether vegetarianism or veganism is important for them to reach ascension is their soul.

dac

09-16-2008, 09:55 AM

www.nomilk.com

sternschweyf

09-16-2008, 11:15 AM

I don't eat species that move when reproducting.

starman

09-16-2008, 11:30 AM

I've been a vegetarian for about a month and I will soon transition over to veganism. I regard the whole lifestyle as a tool for becoming more compassionate.

Jonah

09-16-2008, 08:27 PM

Please consider that test were done on people that do not eat meat. It was conclusive that with out the properties that meat gives the brain it leads to memory loss in later years.

Jacqui D

09-16-2008, 08:38 PM

i have been vegetarian for many years now, also do not have dairy.
Like a previous post if i had to eat meat now i think it would make me very ill.
Don't know about the ascention thing but not eating living things must surely give you a cleansed body and soul.

Phtha

09-16-2008, 09:55 PM

Please consider that test were done on people that do not eat meat. It was conclusive that with out the properties that meat gives the brain it leads to memory loss in later years.

Source of this study? Sounds like the normal FDA type method of scewing views on health and reality to me.

I went vegan about 6 months ago. My main reason at the time was because it was so hard to find meat that isn't loaded with antibiotics and growth hormones. Now there are many many more reasons why I'm glad I made my choice.

eddiefibbro

09-17-2008, 01:23 AM

Well, yes I am a vegetarian. Been one since i was 24 years old and now I am 61. I have raised 7 children as vegetarians and split roughly 50/50 they are by choice veg or non veg.

Originally, a Hindu/karma/ living in India inspiration. Now that I know all religions are mind control BUT intuitively knowing it is important I have discovered the proper reason (in my view) it is important to refrain from eating the flesh of living beings.

We are living in a giant holographic universe that operates off the binary of FEAR and LOVE. It is easy to understand that when the Annunaki set up the scene for humanity's next 5,200 year cycle (26,000/5) now drawing to an end, they put in place programs that would guarantee their domination through fear of human kind The Temple of Solomon was the perfect program, dedicated as it was to presenting the burnt offering of flesh to the gods. There humans were introduced to the idea of Sacrifice of Life to feed the gods. We know the stories of the Astral near dimensional beings who harvest human emotion ( a transformation of sun light) just as humans harvest plants and animals (transformations of sunlight).

This is the core program of the Predators, something they call the food chain, survival of the fittest, dog eat dog etc. However, we are deeply into a program of planetary ascension. The process involves each individual making CONSCIOUS choices that are opportunities to evolve based upon the established binary program- FEAR or LOVE.

We are programmed by the dominant culture to choose FEAR. The choice for each Soul is to go with the flow OR to resist the fear that is designed to funnel all the Sheeple into the corral.

The opposition- benevolent ETs, self realized reincarnatees, sincere souls are always pre-disposed to seek information (LIGHT) and pass it on. LIGHT is the precursor of LOVE. So, one happy and do-it-yourself program available to us all is the the free will choice we make in respect to feeding the body. By recognizing CONSCIOUSNESS as the presence of life and CHOOSING to honor life rather than take it for the sustenance of our own flesh, we have an opportunity on a daily basis to reinforce our tendency to choose LOVE over FEAR.

The Ascension moment- whether it is 21/12/2012 or in 20 minutes- will be a unique subjective moment when each individual has the opportunity to make the the personal FEAR/LOVE choice which will write that person's ticket for metaphorically the next 26,000 years. So, LIGHT says, Eat for Love!

Phtha

09-17-2008, 06:24 AM

Btw here is a good show to convert meat eaters to veggies. :naughty:

http://www.chooseveg.com/animal-cruelty.asp

It's hosted by one of the Baldwins.

uniconr

09-17-2008, 07:12 AM

Please consider that test were done on people that do not eat meat. It was conclusive that with out the properties that meat gives the brain it leads to memory loss in later years.

vorian here is referring to vitamin b12. it is found naturally only in meat and animal products. edit: or not. read Phtha's link and associated articles long term deficiency can be fatal.

it is an essential supplement for vegans. while it is possible to derive a multitude of vitamins and minerals from vegetable sources, if you are not eating meat, dairy, or eggs, you are most likely deficient in b12 edit: but dont take my word for it, get a blood test!

the studies have been numerous, but most of them are portrayed as 'proof' that vegetarian/vegan diet is not good for you, that it will shrink your brain, cause irreversible nerve damage etc etc

if youre going to eat a vegetable-based diet, it is really important to learn a few things about nutrition. you are missing out on a lot of nutrients if you dont know to eat the right foods. what comes to mind immediately are the essential fatty acids, omega 3 6 and 9, but lately, in canada at least, the trend has been to fortify a lot of different foods with those, and many breakfast cereals as well as soy/rice/nut/hemp milk are fortified with b12 but dont depend on those.

unfortunately, i feel confident in saying that most humans are malnourished in some way, regardless of dietary structure. most people should really be on multivitamins..

much love,
a vegan

Phtha

09-17-2008, 07:44 AM

After gaining a huge distrust for anything that is planted in the public spectrum by so called "professionals", double so when it comes from the medical profession, I started researching this b12 issue after a friend warned me about it.

Here is a good article on the b12 hoax.
The Vitamin B12 Hoax by V.V. Vetrano, B.S., D.C. (http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/why-we-should-not-eat-meat/the-vitamin-b12-hoax.html)

vorian here is referring to vitamin b12. it is found naturally ///only in meat and animal products. long term deficiency can be fatal.

it is an essential supplement for vegans. while it is possible to derive a multitude of vitamins and minerals from vegetable sources, if you are not eating meat, dairy, or eggs, you are most likely deficient in b12

the studies have been numerous, but most of them are portrayed as 'proof' that vegetarian/vegan diet is not good for you, that it will shrink your brain, cause irreversible nerve damage etc etc EAT YER SUPPLEMENTS

uniconr

09-17-2008, 11:07 AM

v interesting. the b12 articles (i read five) on the raw foods site are saying that the standard for healthy b12 levels is much higher for high fat and meat oriented diets, due to impediments to absorption, than for the vegan diet. applying one standard to the other diet is incorrect.
im not a medical professional and so i have never asked to see the chemical analysis of my bloodwork, but i was told that said tests showed i had a 'marked deficiency'. its possible that the test results would show my levels were unhealthy for a conventional diet, but healthy for a vegan diet. or its possible that i really do have a deficiency, im lucky enough to be part a very select group, what the articles refer to as 'one or two vegans' being low on b12. i wasnt found to be anemic though
while the link between pernicious anemia and b12 was disputed, there are other problems associated with low b12 levels. things directly associated with b12s function in the body, like cell metabolism and dna synthesis, and problems arising from chronic deficiency, the decay/sclerosis of nervous tissue in the brain and spine.

thanks for the link though! and i apologize for my post reading as 'eat your vitamins or die' or stating that vegans et al. were 'most likely deficient'. i too distrust the medical profession, but i dont have the facilities to do my own blood tests, and thats currently the only way to gauge nutrient levels

EYES WIDE OPEN

09-17-2008, 11:24 AM

I am a hypocrite vegatarioan. (I eat fish)

My wife is a vegan

David

09-17-2008, 01:22 PM

The smell of red meat gets me sick. I eat fish and lots of vegetables.

sunnyrap

09-17-2008, 01:41 PM

I tried total vegan when I was young adult and got too thin and too weak (didn't know what I was doing). Then I llimited myself to very occasional fish & chicken for many years, eating a lot of eggs and nuts. I finally went totally vegan and don't miss meat at all. Now I can't stomach chicken or fish either. I read a text by a 'master nutritionist' who had devoted his life to its study. He had no particular moral compunctions about eating meat or not, he just noticed it was bad for people. He said our basic physiology was 'fructiferous'--meaning our teeth and jaws are designed for eating fruits and nuts. Studies of recently rediscovered ancient scrolls advise humans to eat fruits-nuts-seeds, period--and not to mix our foods up very much (i.e., eat one kind of fruit/veg at a time) for proper digestion. Recent more scientific studies bear this out. You can reverse aging, eliminate a host of diseases and gain tons more vitality with this kind of diet.

chelmostef

09-17-2008, 05:18 PM

Also If you eat a high vegatable diet your body produces cologen which in turn keeps you looking young! Most Vegans look younger than their years, this is why! Healthy for your soul and your skin!
Not so sure about the B12 thing I will have to look into it, thanks for pointing out. I dont seem to be going senile yet although others might disagree..

Kundaflower

09-17-2008, 05:58 PM

Hi beloveds

Vegeterian, heritage from Hinduism....

I think vegetarian food is art in India and its easy to fall in love it...

Also its value for higher counsiousness is recognized....:thumb_yello:

Shanti

Phtha

09-17-2008, 06:02 PM

thanks for the link though! and i apologize for my post reading as 'eat your vitamins or die' or stating that vegans et al. were 'most likely deficient'. i too distrust the medical profession, but i dont have the facilities to do my own blood tests, and thats currently the only way to gauge nutrient levels

I understand where you coming from. The problem with getting blood tests is the results are measured against standards that are more then likely fraudulent or just plain wrong.
These are the same folks that are telling us cancer is a genetic disease and virtually incurable. Today because of the "wisdom" of the establishment, 1 in 4 people will develop this disease in a lifetime, and you don't have to go far back in time to realize cancer rarely even existed 200 years ago. There are at least 4 cancer cures that have been completely suppressed from the public since the early 1900's. And the same goes for many of the other so called diseases we get.

Sorry for going off topic a little but I just don't trust a thing they tell us. My personal belief (because of much research) is that the whole medical establishment needs to go away. It "cures" people from illness that are caused directly from chemicals and other foreign substances that they put in our food/water and air. The amount of people that die from doctors and other medical professionals is equivalent to a 911 attack every week. That's not called "healthcare". :lightsabre:

On the bright side of things, eating a healthy diet and not intaking foreign substances will make us virtually disease free, as we are meant to be. Disease and sickness is not part of our makeup as we have been taught.

Much love. :)

chelmostef

09-17-2008, 07:19 PM

.
These are the same folks that are telling us cancer is a genetic disease and virtually incurable. 1 in 4 people will develop this disease in a lifetime. There are at least 4 cancer cures that have been completely suppressed from the public since the early 1900's. And the same goes for many of the other so called diseases we get. It "cures" people from illness that are caused directly from chemicals and other foreign substances that they put in our food/water and air. The amount of people that die from doctors and other medical professionals is equivalent to a 911 attack every week. That's not called "healthcare".

Still off topic but I totally agree with this. I am very seceptical of the pharmaceutical industry. They thrive if ill health. They dont want to cure us but to buy more drugs. Anti-depressents that make you suicidal can't be good. A drug for this and a drug for that. If it the sole purpose was not to make money a profits they would cure us!!

I would like to add though, if the worst case scenario does happen. And If food is in short supply what drugs or vitamins would be worth will having in a kit bag to keep one going? Maybe thats for a new post though..

Stef

arcora

09-17-2008, 07:42 PM

This thread is very good news for me.

After all hell breaks loose and only we enlightened people are left standing, red meat will be plentiful.

Morgan

09-18-2008, 05:38 AM

To add to the B12 discussion, I have read in multiple many (non-MSM) books/places that the B12 levels they state as 'normal' on blood tests are not only INCREDIBLY vast in range (I think the labs I go to say 200-800?), but also many alternative health professionals will tell you that 200 is WAY TOO LOW. Most people start to feel low energy and other symptoms of B12 deficiency before ever dipping below that level. (I was one of them.)

Additionally, the "healthy" or "normal" levels on the blood tests are actually 'averages' or what have you of the samples blood labs take from people. (Check out books by Sherry A. Rogers MD for more specifics. She's an allergist who became anti-pharmaceuticals and now treats people by looking for causes, recommends supplements, saunas, etc.) Now use logic - who gets their blood tested most often, sick people or healthy people? And who is more likely to be vitamin deficient? Dr Rogers basically states that the levels medical labs use for 'normal' are too low for people who want to be genuinely healthy.

B12 is only found in animal products, or, I am told, in fermented foods. Bacteria can produce it.

Looking for a supplement, aim for B12 in the form of methylcobalamin. (The cyanocobalamin is not absorbed as readily.)

-------

Now I want to comment on being vegan/vegetarian. I was vegetarian for 9 years and vegan for over half that duration, until becoming severely ill. My diet wasn't ace, but I was more nutritionally informed than probably 90% of people. I was deficient in all kinds of micronutrients and found to be allergic to literally ALL grains (yes, even spelt and the alternative grains).

I switched to a meat, veggie, and fruit diet. My health has recovered considerably.

So my 'beef' (ha) with this 'vegetarianism is more spiritual' is that - what do I do? With my allergies and other health experiences, I barely survive on a vegetarian diet, nevermind vegan. There has been much research into epileptics and other health conditions that show some people/health conditions do MUCH better on ketogenic or high protein diets.

So what does one say to my sector of the population? We won't ascend because we can't survive on plants alone? We will never progress spiritually because our ill health requires us to eat animal sources of protein?

I totally 100% support vegetarians/vegans, and I would be one were I in a different situation. I just find it hard to believe that my spiritual advancement would be blocked because in this incarnation I have conditions that require me to adhere to a particular diet in order to function in society.

I don't mean to cause any trouble either, and I love this thread, but I had to speak up on this. Vegetarianism, done with some knowledge, is absolutely healthy and ideal for people who are suited to it.

chelmostef

09-18-2008, 10:02 PM

Most people start to feel low energy and other symptoms of B12 deficiency before ever dipping below that level. (I was one of them.) until becoming severely ill. My diet wasn't ace, but I was more nutritionally informed than probably 90% of people. I was deficient in all kinds of micronutrients and found to be allergic to literally ALL grains (yes, even spelt and the alternative grains). I switched to a meat, veggie, and fruit diet. My health has recovered considerably. So my 'beef' (ha) with this 'vegetarianism is more spiritual' is that - what do I do? With my allergies and other health experiences, I barely survive on a vegetarian diet, nevermind vegan. .
So what does one say to my sector of the population? We won't ascend because we can't survive on plants alone? We will never progress spiritually because our ill health requires us to eat animal sources of protein?
.

Thats a tricky situation to be in. If it effects your own health and well being, then you have no choice, its just something you cant do. You have tried it to you own detriment maybe this is enough. I have heard acording to you blood group that this can affect which foods you can eat.
Maybe its ones frame of mind that counts towards ascention, living in harmany with the world around us.
I have always thought it was a fallacy put out by meat eaters that you need meat, maybe I am wrong.
I personally have never had any ill health or felt less fit or had less energy from being vegan. I would go as far to say I feel much better for it.
I am not blowing my own trumpet, but I am a lot fitter than most people.
As for B12 vitamin, I looked at my chocolate alpro soya milk and for a 250ml serving you get 1.25ug or 125% of your RDA(recommended daily allowance) of B12 amongst other things + For 30g of my cornflakes I get 30% of my B12s

Maybe thats why I havent gone completely crazy despite what my freinds say!

King Lear

09-18-2008, 10:08 PM

Meat is my vegetable!

http://beefjerkytn.com/zencart/images/Vegetarian.JPG

chelmostef

09-18-2008, 10:10 PM

Got chucked of the other threads did we king liar

Phtha

09-19-2008, 12:05 AM

Meat is my vegetable!

That quote on your attachment implies to 99.99% of meat eaters as well. They get someone else to murder for them. :tongue2:

igniop

09-19-2008, 12:26 AM

99% Vegan here! (I do occasionally succumb to pizza with cheese :winksmiley02:

I do believe that everybody has different needs - we just need to listen to our body and the vegan diet is not for everybody!
as for B12 - one can get enough through dairy and eggs.
as for getting sick - for me, I have been the same as when i was eating meat.
My husband has been vegan for 11 years and for the 5 years that i know him he has never been sick - not even once!

here are some stuff from wikipedia:

Health benefits and concerns

Vegetarianism is considered a healthy, viable diet. The American Dietetic Association and the Dietitians of Canada have found a properly-planned vegetarian diet to satisfy the nutritional needs for all stages of life, and large-scale studies have shown vegetarianism to significantly lower risks of cancer, ischaemic heart disease, and other fatal diseases.[10][11][35] Necessary nutrients, proteins, and amino acids for the body's sustenance can be found in green leafy vegetables, grains, nuts, and fortified juices or soymilk.[36]

Vegetarian diets can aid in keeping body weight under control[37][38] and substantially reduce risks of heart disease and osteoporosis.[39][40][39][40] Non-lean red meat, in particular, has been found to be directly associated with dramatically increased risk of cancers of the lung, oesophagus, liver, and colon.[13][41] Other studies have shown that there were no significant differences between vegetarians and nonvegetarians in mortality from cerebrovascular disease, stomach cancer, colorectal cancer, breast cancer, or prostate cancer.[42]

The American Dietetic Association and Dietitians of Canada have stated: "Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber, magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and E and phytochemicals."[35]

Vitamin B12

Plants are not generally significant sources of Vitamin B12,[51] However, vegetarians can obtain B12 from dairy products, eggs, fortified foods and dietary supplements.[52][53] Since the human body preserves B12 and reuses it without destroying the substance, clinical evidence of B12 deficiency is uncommon.[54][55] The body can preserve stores of the vitamin for up to 30 years without needing its supplies to be replenished.[51]

The recommendation of taking supplements has been challenged by studies indicating that exogenous B12 may actually interfere with the proper absorption of this vitamin in its natural form.[56] The research on vitamin B12 sources has increased in the latest years[57] and researchers at Hiroshima University have developed methods for growing plants rich in vitamin B12.[58]

Blufire77

09-19-2008, 04:05 AM

The free will choice to become vegetarian or vegan has always been interesting and at the same time perplexing to me . . . . especially the part about not eating something that once was a living sentient being.

I spend the majority of my time outside on my farm growing organic food and tending to the various medicinal herbs and plants that I grow both by cultivation and wild crafting. Plants and trees for me are just as alive as the numerous animals here on the farm. When we harvest the vegetables, grains and fruits their “life force” is released and the plant “dies” . . . . it no longer can continue to grow or live through its natural cycle of life.

When I am in the garden or woods the plants and trees share their energy and communicate to me in a different way than an animal or person, but there is an emotional response none the less. Most have probably heard about plants that are talked to or are lovingly cared for are healthier than those left alone and given only the basic needs of life. Is this not a “form” of emotional intelligent response?

I eat all types of meat, eggs and dairy products as well as fruits, whole grains and vegetables. I embrace and accept my “human” designation in the “animal” kingdom and part of that designation is an “omnivore”, one who consumes both plants and meat. Humans are not classified as carnivores (meat only eaters) or herbivores (plant only eaters). Our bodies require complex proteins and amino acids that only red meat can supply. Does that mean that humans cannot survive on only a plant or meat only diet? No obviously humans can as many of you in this forum do. But there is a difference between surviving and thriving.

I am striving toward a completely off-grid, self-sustaining environment. Part of being self-sustaining means not only do I grow all the food I eat, I also grow all the food my livestock eat. All life on this farm (four and two legged and rooted) is respected, loved and honored. I abhor the way animals are treated in mass producing slaughter houses and I will not eat meat produced in this way . . . for many reasons not only morally. I also detest mass produced vegetables and fruits. These “living beings” are also grown in toxic, hostile environments.

At this point, I would like to state that I strongly take objection with the idea that only vegetarians or vegans can ascend to a higher level of enlightenment. My personal enlightenment and spiritual growth rapidly took off at the point I began meditating and praying outside in all weather and seasons while going about the daily tasks of farm life . . . . all tasks of farm life. I have became very sanguine and completely at peace with the “circle of life”. Simply with the absolute knowledge and understanding that “life” never, ever ends . . . .it is unfathomably and wonderfully infinite.

So for me when one says they are superior to me because they only eat “dead” plants, fruits and vegetables means that perhaps they should come here to my humble little farm and shovel poop.
:flowers2:

uniconr

09-19-2008, 03:18 PM

I was deficient in all kinds of micronutrients and found to be allergic to literally ALL grains (yes, even spelt and the alternative grains).
..
So my 'beef' (ha) with this 'vegetarianism is more spiritual' is that - what do I do? With my allergies and other health experiences, I barely survive on a vegetarian diet, nevermind vegan. There has been much research into epileptics and other health conditions that show some people/health conditions do MUCH better on ketogenic or high protein diets.
..
So what does one say to my sector of the population? We won't ascend because we can't survive on plants alone? We will never progress spiritually because our ill health requires us to eat animal sources of protein?

its really surprising to me that a meat diet is your only option, but if it is truly the case then so be it. health is paramount.
to your segment of the population i would say talk to a nutritionist and if they know their onions theyll point you in the right direction.
grains arent even an essential to the human diet. have you looked into acupuncture? my girlfriend is actually being cured of a few of her allergies and sensitivities, but it tends to be pretty expensive..

uniconr

09-19-2008, 03:47 PM

When we harvest the vegetables, grains and fruits their “life force” is released and the plant “dies” . . . . it no longer can continue to grow or live through its natural cycle of life.
..
Our bodies require complex proteins and amino acids that only red meat can supply. Does that mean that humans cannot survive on only a plant or meat only diet? No obviously humans can as many of you in this forum do. But there is a difference between surviving and thriving.
..
So for me when one says they are superior to me because they only eat “dead” plants, fruits and vegetables means that perhaps they should come here to my humble little farm and shovel poop.

i disagree with the idea that harvest means death. i believe much of the life force is still present in the plant until it is broken down in some way, either by digestion bacterial or animal, or by cooking.

plants still reproduce sexually, but when its seeds germinate in the ground around the plant, competition for water and sunlight wont do either plant or sprout any good. plants need animals to poop their seeds far and wide, thats why fruit is so delicious! the infinity of animal life though does not benefit from being eaten..

i dont think that meat consumption is a detriment to spiritual growth, and i dont think exclusive vegetable consumption is a detriment to thriving.

in conclusion shoveling poop is really good money. for serious

pineal-pilot-in merkabah

09-19-2008, 03:52 PM

mostly vegan here, if i visit others houses and are given gifts of food then i accept dairy products. been veggie since 2000 and vegan for a year. i will eat meat if i have to tho if it comes to it. obv wild rabbits or deer or whatever squirrels?? im also looking at buying a few hundered cans of sardines for absolute emergencies!!

truthseekersearching

09-19-2008, 04:11 PM

Interesting topic.

I have toiled with whether a human body actually "needs" meat to sustain itself or not, for a few years now. My gut tells me it’s all about your individual DNA make-up whether or not your body can effectively process meat or not. I personally and two other direct family members have had to have our gallbladders removed, which is the main organ that breaks down fat from meat products, so the cards are stacked against me from a physiological standpoint.

Personally, not eating meat is a moral decision I have made. I have also learned that meat and dairy products are low vibration foods and I have received enlightenment to stop consuming low vibration foods. Not eating dairy products has been a challenge.

Realistically, if certain outcomes do come to pass, meat wrapped in a nice little package in the refrigerated isle of your local grocery store will become a thing of the past and consumers will either need to hunt for their meat, which brings up the topic of who owns the meat that you hunt? Unless you are hunting wild hoofed stock chances are the meat you are stalking is owned by a rancher somewhere and you run the risk of being shot for stealing their meat. That would mean consumers would need to rely on a very unsanitary open market scenario to buy/trade for meat.

Interesting topic indeed.

Peace

King Lear

09-19-2008, 05:17 PM

http://www.gifs.net/Animation11/Food_and_Drinks/BBQ_and_Picnics/Pig_roast.gif

http://acalbright.com/images/PigRoast05.jpg

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrology-news/images/pigletroast.gif

http://www.bigjohngrills.com/picts/PigPen2.jpg

:roll1: I'm soooo mean :roll1:

historycircus

09-19-2008, 07:53 PM

Aren't plants living creatures too? Or is it only OK to eat living organisms outside our biological classification?

arcora

09-19-2008, 07:59 PM

I believe the body craves what it needs.

Suddenly I feel like having a pork chop.

izz

09-19-2008, 08:02 PM

This thread is very good news for me.

After all hell breaks loose and only we enlightened people are left standing, red meat will be plentiful.

see deliberately provoking:tongue2: ATS style ...

Shobhana

09-19-2008, 08:12 PM

The time will come when men such I will look upon the murder
of animals as know the look upon the murder of men.
Leonardo da Vinci

arcora

09-19-2008, 08:13 PM

see deliberately provoking:tongue2: ATS style ...

I am truly sorry if I offended anyone with my remark. I was trying to be humorous. Please forgive me.

Theresa

09-19-2008, 08:27 PM

YEA!!! great thread~

I am vegan, on and off for 20 years, now on for several months for good. I have been guided that it most definitely is a higher vibration way to live/eat, however, spirit cautions that not every evolving "ego" is ready for the higher vibration. In other words, if that souls' evolution still requires the "vibration" of animal foods to continue it's "growth", it will manifest as a nutrient 'need' for animal protein. HOWEVER-there is no debate scientifically now that less animal protein and more whole plant foods prevent and heal disease (see THE CHINA STUDY by T. Colin Campbell, PhD).

I feel SOOOOO much better on a plant based diet, but WITHOUT refined sugar! Sugar is "vegan" but also carcinogenic!

Viva La Vegan~

Sideshow Shaman

09-19-2008, 09:51 PM

Hi all!

I was wondering if any one else was veggie or vegan?
Does anyone think this is important step towards ascention?

Stef

It is an important step towards human species survival.
Producing meat uses far more resources than vegetables.

That said, I am not really vegetarian. Was vegan for some time. I eat meat about twice a month now, but I do consider all animal flesh (even fish) to be meat.

If you are looking to increase the health of your mind+body...
focus on doing good things.
Not on avoiding bad things, that will happen naturally once the good is flowing.

Phtha

09-19-2008, 10:12 PM

Aren't plants living creatures too? Or is it only OK to eat living organisms outside our biological classification?

It's known that the vast majority of plants live on a far lower plane of consciousness then even the most lowly animal.

Many fruits and vegetables are designed to be eaten. Just look at them and think about how they work and you'll see. I can't think of one animal
where the same can be said.

Blufire77

09-19-2008, 10:20 PM

It is an important step towards human species survival.
Producing meat uses far more resources than vegetables.

That said, I am not really vegetarian. Was vegan for some time. I eat meat about twice a month now, but I do consider all animal flesh (even fish) to be meat.

If you are looking to increase the health of your mind+body...
focus on doing good things.
Not on avoiding bad things, that will happen naturally once the good is flowing.

Sideshow Shaman I'm curious . . . . what experience do you have growing vegetables or producing meat?

Shellie

09-19-2008, 10:35 PM

historycircus

09-19-2008, 10:39 PM

Shellie

09-19-2008, 10:41 PM

"Life" doesn't spontaneously come from nowhere... it just gets passed along. Somewhere, something has to "give" in order for something else to "receive".

historycircus

09-19-2008, 10:43 PM

izz

09-19-2008, 10:43 PM

I feel no guilt for being at the top of the food chain. The only thing I feel guilt about is not being able to share my gratefulness to the creature that died for me; by treating it compassionately during its life and asking its spirit both for its blessings and forgiveness.

ummm ... all life is connected .. you choose to eat animals from slaughter houses, therefore you support the system of killing via slaughter houses ..

You choose to do this .. you dont need too ..

top of the food chain ... umm interesting that is probably what the power brokers think when they consider the consequences of their actions in relation to us mere mortals ..

sets a dangerous precedent does nt it :shocked:

it is hard for truely awake individuals to harm other beings .. only those who are asleep could do such a thing

the native americans were very connected to all life .. we cant live like them these days .. or very few of us can ..in relation to eating sentient animals

izz

09-19-2008, 10:47 PM

"Life" doesn't spontaneously come from nowhere... it just gets passed along. Somewhere, something has to "give" in order for something else to "receive".

good point .. where are mankind giving ? specifically where are western mankind giving ?

Shellie

09-19-2008, 10:49 PM

There are many other animals out there at the top of the food chain- all strictly carnivores are.

And I do not see any connections between vertical patriarchal power structures and the food chain. In either situation, we all die and the microbes get us- they turn us into nutrients that feed plants, that feed the herbivores, that feed the omnivores and the carnivores. But as far as the system goes, one sick power-hungry monster dies and nobody benefits. They just get replaced by another sick power-hungry monster. The little guy doesn't get a piece of anything.

Shellie

09-19-2008, 10:50 PM

I also use dollars, but that does not mean I support the Federal Reserve.

arcora

09-19-2008, 10:53 PM

At the risk of being labeled a provocoteur or a troll I have a viewpoint.

Karma is for all beings - including animals and perhaps vegetables.

Has anyone thought that perhaps an animal giving his life to feed and nurture a higher being creates good karma which will allow that animal to ascend to a higher state of conciousness? Perhaps when a higher being eats an animal and gives him the opportunity to ascend that also generates good karma for the individual.

I know this is out of vegan mainstream belief and again, I don't mean to disrupt or instigate. It is just a thought that I had.

izz

09-19-2008, 10:54 PM

Shellie

09-19-2008, 10:56 PM

izz

09-19-2008, 11:04 PM

Ok, this is so bizarre, but I had a flashback to college "History of Fairy Tales" class...

Basically, in western culture it was a GOOD thing to eat/drink something because there was a belief that by doing so you could acquire some of the characteristics of the thing/person(!) you were eating. Cannibalism was a very popular theme in western fairy tales. But what is more disturbing than that is the number of people who participate in a symbolic ritual cannibalism every Sunday! (Really no offense intended, just an intellectual observation).

the thing is boogle the meat eaters and th enon meat eaters or partial meat eaters will never agree .. until a shift occurs and they see things the same way .. so all this discussion is in some way pointless..

I think the belief you have just highlighted is still in operation which is why the chinese [ some chinese ] chop off the paws ffrom bears when they are still alive - to imbue the soup with the fear and pain of the bear ..

same with tigers .. they have tiger farms where they harvest these beautiful creatures for the same reason ..

essentially .. slaughter houses are vile and that is where most of the meat comes from .. i cant eat meat because i cant be party to that vileness .. any cursury look at farming methods and killing methods on the internet and you would see what i mean.

If could live life as the american indians did .. maybe i would eat meat ..

Shellie

09-19-2008, 11:08 PM

You're right.

Phtha

09-19-2008, 11:09 PM

Then, it is OK to harvest for sustinance any living organism that has a lower level of conciousness than ourselves? That should present a real problem for those who believe extraterrestrials are doing the same thing to humans, and are horrified by it.

Just a thought.

The planes of human consciousness and above are in a whole new and separate category then that which is below it, ala elements, minerals, plants, and then animals. There exists a gradient though between the creatures and the planes. Meaning the highest mineral will be similar in awareness to the lowest plant, and the highest plant similar to lowest animal.

But going along with your question, to be truly benevolent we wouldn't even be able to exist. :naughty: As every step we take would squish an atom which has a basic love/fear consciousness, or scientifically speaking, attract/repel. This is where common sense needs to come into play.

Edit:
Oops I meant to add that what is happening now to animals is PURE EVIL. They are being skinned alive and hung from hooks every single minute of every day. They are being burnt, electrocuted, and tortured in ways we all need to become aware of, because anyone with any sense of humanity would be sickened if they really knew what was happening in meat processing plants. We need to become aware so it will stop..

Watch this video meat eaters! It doesn't bite... or live in ignorance. :winksmiley02:
http://www.chooseveg.com/animal-cruelty.asp

Dantheman62

09-19-2008, 11:14 PM

the thing is boogle the meat eaters and th enon meat eaters or partial meat eaters will never agree .. until a shift occurs and they see things the same way .. so all this discussion is in some way pointless..

I think the belief you have just highlighted is still in operation which is why the chinese [ some chinese ] chop off the paws ffrom bears when they are still alive - to imbue the soup with the fear and pain of the bear ..

same with tigers .. they have tiger farms where they harvest these beautiful creatures for the same reason ..

essentially .. slaughter houses are vile and that is where most of the meat comes from .. i cant eat meat because i cant be party to that vileness .. any cursury look at farming methods and killing methods on the internet and you would see what i mean.

If could live life as the american indians did .. maybe i would eat meat ..
I'm not knocking anything here at all, love my vegies and don't eat alot of meat and my oldest sister is vegetarian, but just wondering why do we have the teeth we have? some teeth are for biting and tearing meat aren't they? again, just wondering!

izz

09-19-2008, 11:17 PM

Edit:
Oops I meant to add that what is happening now to animals is PURE EVIL. They are being skinned alive and hung from hooks every single minute of every day. They are being burnt, electrocuted, and tortured in ways we all need to become aware of, because anyone with any sense of humanity would be sickened if they really knew what was happening in meat processing plants. We need to become aware so it will stop..

Watch this video meat eaters! It doesn't bite... or live in ignorance. :winksmiley02:
http://www.chooseveg.com/animal-cruelty.asp

i agree .. and when our consciouness rises collectively this wont happen .. advanced societies would never ever treat sentient beings like this ..

we as in mankind dont have a great track record in the way we treat each other either ..

King Lear

09-20-2008, 10:17 AM

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5039/cowre3.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://smartcanucks.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/sad-tomato.jpg

izz

09-20-2008, 02:13 PM

yea yea same old same old .. there is ALWAYS someone like king lear who is an avid meat eater .. who then starts going on about vegetables YAWN ...:yikes:

historycircus

09-20-2008, 03:30 PM

The good king's symbols are valid Jzz. We have a right to eat vegetables because they are a lower form of sentient life? I think the carrot men of garden planet 7 would argue with you.

izz

09-20-2008, 03:33 PM

The good king's symbols are valid Jzz. We have a right to eat vegetables because they are a lower form of sentient life? I think the carrot men of garden planet 7 would argue with you.

haha my point is that it is always the people who care nothing for the killing of other life forms who make this point IMO .. they happily eat veal and pigs that have been kept in sheds their whole lives and killed in the most barbarious manner ..

then they always seem to make this inane point about vegetables ..

I do think trees and plants have life force ... lear made that post to mock not to inform which is why i am :lmao:

Carol

09-20-2008, 04:00 PM

Izz, from one perspective you are absolutely correct. To kill and to eat another animal is wrong from several spiritual perspectives.

Then there is the reality that if the body goes without meat in 7 years it loses the capacity to produce its own vitamin B. In fact, some bodies become anemic without meat and just do very poorly. Blood type O needs meat where another Blood type doesn't. Who is to say what is right here? We chose not to eat meat for spiritual reasons and then chose to eat meat again for medical reasons.

I did speak to a Buddhist about this once and there was a lovely story she told which referred to how the consciousness of that which was eaten was raised by the act of becoming one with person who needed food to live. That if not eaten, consciousness would stay at the same level. I wish I could remember the story to pass it on as it did help me personally come to terms with this delemma.

Sideshow Shaman

09-20-2008, 04:08 PM

Sideshow Shaman I'm curious . . . . what experience do you have growing vegetables or producing meat?

Lots. I've lived in the center of a city now for quite a few years. So all I have in the ground right now is asparagus and horse radish. These are on my fathers property which is virgin forest.

At age 2 my family moved into a farming community, heavily dairy too. A bit funny because I have never liked dairy. Anyway, the children's (me+others) daily chores included weeding the large garden, feeding the animals, etc. We also helped at the time of planting & slaughter. The fishing rule was, You catch it you clean it. We stayed there until i was 10.

The variety of plants and animals that we grew was fairly large. Food was also gathered from the forest, mushrooms, watercress, nettles, blueberries, etc. Bartering with farmers was good too. I still enjoy hanging out with the organic farmers and trading tips when I visit.

Funny thing i noticed a couple years ago. Went back to the swamp in the state forest where a huge amount of blueberries grow free for the picking. In the 70s when our whole family would go picking there were always other people out there. if you waited until the end of the season there might not be much left. This time when we went, not only was no one else out there, the bushes had not been picked at all for the entire season! People are really losing touch.

Thanks for asking Blufire :-)
It sounds like you have a pretty good knack for growing.

I feel that if everyone had to kill & butcher their own meat, many meat eaters would suddenly lose their appetite. It is important to honor the animals that are eaten. Modern slaughter houses are truly an abomination. My experience of knowing where my food comes from seems to be fairly unusual these days.

It also seems pretty obvious that meat has been heavily over-emphasized in western culture, and increasingly so in eastern cultures. So for the most part people really should, at least, cut back on the sheer volume of meat consumed.

Everyone here should realize by now that the modern food supply has been highly, purposely, contaminated. That goes double for supermarket meat.

Beef!
it's what you're programmed to eat.
:naughty:

King Lear

09-20-2008, 04:08 PM

haha my point is that it is always the people who care nothing for the killing of other life forms who make this point IMO .. they happily eat veal and pigs that have been kept in sheds their whole lives and killed in the most barbarious manner ..

then they always seem to make this inane point about vegetables ..

I do think trees and plants have life force ... lear made that post to mock not to inform which is why i am :lmao:

"killed in barbarious manner"??
Do you know that there are strict rules/laws how to butcher an animal cruel-free?
Ever heard of that?
Indeed there are many countries in the world where humans have lesser rights and get abused much more than animals in the western world.

So stop wailing!
Go to Afghanistan and demonstrate there for animal rights, you will see what you earn.

I myself have in fact many veggies as personal friends, but that doesn't stop me to make fun of them.
In my opinion it is as stupid to exclude meat totally, as to exclude vegetables and fruits totally.

In my opinion that's unhealthy.

chelmostef

09-20-2008, 04:16 PM

Good point Boogies. Native American hunters did that very thing. European traders found it odd that Indian hunters would speak to the fallen prey after the chase. In a couple of recorded instances, we know they were thanking the spirit of the animal for its gift. We could probably do the same I guess, but it would be eaisier if we had an up close relationship with our meat (caught or raised ourselves).

I that is very good point. It shows respect for the animals and a understanding they have a soul. To say thanks to the spirit of the animal for its gift of its body as meat.

For me I consider animals as my friends. And I dont eat my friends.

As for plants. I dont consider that they have a entity living inside them, although they most definitely are alive.

I do not think our journey as souls begins with plants, but with animals and the more you advance your soul the further you progress. I dont know where we start in this jorney, say as ants or beatles for instance. Or what the advanced beings are or we we are in this line.
I think that as Humans we are on this road somewhere, and the more you progress your own or other souls the more likely you will progress to the next leval, where ever that is :blush-anim-cl:

King Lear

09-20-2008, 04:28 PM

izz

09-20-2008, 04:33 PM

"killed in barbarious manner"??
Do you know that there are strict rules/laws how to kill an animal cruel-free?
Ever heard of that?
Indeed there are many countries in the world where humans have lesser rights and get abused much more than animals in the western world.

So stop wailing!
Go to Afghanistan and demonstrate there for animal rights, you will see what you earn.

I myself have in fact many veggies as personal friends, but that doesn't stop me to make fun of them.
In my opinion it is as stupid to exclude meat totally, as to exclude vegetables and fruits totally.

In my opinion that's unhealthy.

:mfr_lol:

izz

09-20-2008, 04:35 PM

Phtha

09-20-2008, 04:49 PM

"killed in barbarious manner"??
Do you know that there are strict rules/laws how to butcher an animal cruel-free?
Ever heard of that?

Whether there really are such laws I don't know, but if you think they are being followed then you have proven your ignorance to the reality of meat processing plants, among other things, 110%. :thumb_yello:

Do you guys know that in one pack of ground beef there could be up to 1000 different cows... mmmmm!

Did you know that the FDA deems cows and other animals with cancer and other man made diseases safe for processing.... mmmmmm!

izz

09-20-2008, 04:53 PM

check out ' meet your meat '

put that in your browser King Lear ..

and tell me that slaughter houses are not evil places full of pain, fear and terrible terrible acts of barbary

chelmostef

09-20-2008, 04:54 PM

But GOD created us this way.
As beings who consume living resources.
We've to accept our position!

I myself would like to consume only sunlight, that would be good for my purse as for my waist.
But unfortunately that's not the way GOD created us.

Is a wolf cruel, when he kills a sheep to survive?
Or a bear who catches a salmon at the waterfalls?
Bears are indeed so wasteful that they only rip out the caviar of the salmons and then throw away the rest of the corpse.

No.
Only the meat consuming human is mean and cruel.

Ok its nice to debate with you.

Wolves. Bears. And salmon as they are canivores. They do not have a choice. If they dont eat what nature provides they would die. We have a choice, you have a choice. We have evolved and that enables us to have a choice.

God! You mean the alien race that put us here? Or do you mean the one we say sorry to every sunday for our sins that we commit in the week?

historycircus

09-20-2008, 05:03 PM

In most states there are more codes and regulations for the raising of livestock than there are for raising human children.

California is just one:

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/fac.html

King Lear

09-20-2008, 05:16 PM

Ok its nice to debate with you.

Wolves, bears, and salmon as they are canivores too. They do not have a choice. If they dont eat what nature provides they would die. We have a choice you have a choice. We have evolved and that enables us to have a choice.

God! You mean the alien race that put us here? Or do you mean the one we say sorry to every sunday for our sins that we commit in the week?

That's not quite correct!
Bears are omnivores, they eat hunny, berries and even gras and plants.
So they would have a choice, but obviously meat and fish delivers them the most proteine.

And don't mess with GOD!
I belive in him! Perhaps he isn't the white bearded man and perhaps aliens have played with our DNA, but at the end there's an eternal source from which everything came respectively which/who created everything.

And I name it GOD.

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/5140/godanmo0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6807/godtd9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/6799/god2si0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

uniconr

09-22-2008, 08:14 AM

i would just like to thank Phtha for referring me to
http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/index.html

it is so comprehensive. it has answered the questions i had about nutrition.

But GOD created us this way.

by invoking the name (and comic book musculature) of god, what king lear is saying is that human physiology and physical health are subjects tangible to science. as opposed to say, morals and belief systems. so to address those former topics,

meat and degenerative diseases
(http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/why-we-should-not-eat-meat/flesh-foods-cause-degenerative-disease.html)

King Lear

09-22-2008, 09:45 AM

by invoking the name (and comic book musculature) of god, what john lear is saying is that human physiology and physical health are subjects tangible to science. as opposed to say, morals and belief systems. so to address those former topics,

John Lear says nothing. I'm NOT JOHN Lear!!!

King Lear

11-25-2008, 04:18 AM

:naughty::lmao::lol3:

http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/3384/butcher2jr0.png (http://imageshack.us)

freekatz

11-25-2008, 04:51 AM

In most states there are more codes and regulations for the raising of livestock than there are for raising human children.

California is just one:

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/fac.html

Get real! I'm sorry but if you believe that then maybe you must feel that animals feel no physical pain, fear or emotions.

I've yet to meet a child who wants to savage a cow in a field or a rip a little bunny to death and gnaw into it's flesh,but put a child near some fresh strawberries or other ripe fruit and they do want to bite into that. I don't believe that the human body is designed for meat eating, this is why meat is such a major contributor to colon cancer, we don't have the enzymes to break it down.

Like everything else on this planet our bodies are very adaptable and have adapted to eat meat when necessity dictates and it can be a hard transition for some bodies to go from meat eating to veganism. The body has forgotten how to make it's own proteins from other sources, by paying very close attention to what you eat and getting a very balanced diet it is possible though.

My personal oplnion is that by eating animals a person is not only causing unnecessary suffering but that person is also eating food of a very low vibration, one of fear and pain...not good for the digestion or the being!

Comparing vegetables to animals is too pathetic to even comment on:thumbdown:

Swanny

11-25-2008, 11:59 AM

Why do some people call themselves Vegetarians and then eat fish??
Can I be a Vegetarian that only eats chicken???

Gnosis5

11-25-2008, 02:04 PM

I find it interesting that all vegan threads on all forums absolutely rage. I think both sides need to go and look within themselves for possible unconscious messages and "let go of it".

The funny thing is that in one of Hubby's session he had a lifetime where his military superiors implanted a whole digestive tract into him and his comrades who were assigned to a planet. It was meant to keep them busy in bodies and less able to spiritually develop themselves and thus lift up out of their bodies, thus out of the control of their superiors.

I am always a bit suspicious, therefore, of spiritual leaders and teachers who glorify the human body. Perhaps I have only seen the dark side and maybe there is a bright side to having a body. IMHO it is only "okay" if one does not let it prevent them from realizing themselves as a spiritual being.

Metaphor

11-25-2008, 03:47 PM

Why do some people call themselves Vegetarians and then eat fish??
Can I be a Vegetarian that only eats chicken???

Swanny, bear with us whom have just found out that meat is wrong. The transition perhaps takes a little more time if you were once eating lots of meat (like i did)
Yes i do eat fish, and i say i am a vegetarian who include fish in my diet, as a way to avoid eating animals. My goal is not veganism but respect to everything i eat. Therefore lending some milk from an animal is not wrong per say. It is the way we harvest other living beings that is wrong.
We cannot criticise the aliens that harvest us if we do the same to animals IMO

burgundia

11-25-2008, 04:38 PM

I stopped eating meat out of compassion for animals. It was several years ago. It just happened so, although I was raised 'on meat". I eat fish occasionally but I won't eat another mammal.

Swanny

11-25-2008, 04:40 PM

Swanny, bear with us whom have just found out that meat is wrong. The transition perhaps takes a little more time if you were once eating lots of meat (like i did)
Yes i do eat fish, and i say i am a vegetarian who include fish in my diet, as a way to avoid eating animals. My goal is not veganism but respect to everything i eat. Therefore lending some milk from an animal is not wrong per say. It is the way we harvest other living beings that is wrong.
We cannot criticise the aliens that harvest us if we do the same to animals IMO

I dont think it's wrong to eat meat, I love it :original:

efields

11-25-2008, 04:51 PM

Hmmm Do you think your greens aren't screaming as you chew them? They are. Did you know they hooked a lie detector up to a pkg. of eggs and when they put one in the boiling water the other 11 slipped a beat? simply amazing.

Watch the Nature Channel. Nothing on Earth survives without eating the next lower life form. Perhaps flowers are innocent, but they require resources. Everything on Earth is alive. Everything on Earth is conscious. The best you can do is Thank the food and Bless it before you consume it. The Native Peoples new this well...

I should add I was a veggi fro a few years, and was a member of the Vegetarian Society in CA. While there I saw more violence practiced on the meat eaters than I could stomach. We must lose our violence and attack modes. They are outdated and serve us no longer.

keria13

11-25-2008, 05:06 PM

Hello everyone

I have seen here a lot of talks about when turning into vegetarian might cos some health problems, but i think those people miss the main idea. Turning into vegatarian should not be due to better health, we Humans can live without hurting anybody, everybeing should be treated the same no matter what IQ it has. Its time when people finally understand that in the Universe not everyone has equal start and we Humans can choose not to kill any being and live happily.

Gnosis5

11-25-2008, 05:30 PM

I dont think it's wrong to eat meat, I love it :original:

Me, too, I'm one with that baby lamb. Eating is primitive by any standards, but did you know that reptilians eat to also absorb the spirit?!
Eating is a form of communication and being able to get into communication, although I don't promote it. At some point my eating compulsions will disappear entirely.

Swanny

11-25-2008, 07:19 PM

If we didn't eat meat or drink milk how many animals do you thing would live in our fields??
People wouldn't keep them for pets.
I've worked on many farms in my life (used to be a agricultural engineer fitting milking parlours etc) and I know that most of the animals on English farms are well kept and happy, ok their ending is a bit grim but their lives up until then are ok, if we didn't need them they wouldn't get a life at all.
So do your bit and eat one so that it gets a life :original:

King Lear

11-25-2008, 07:32 PM

So, you Veggies want us to eat Soylent Green?!?

http://eureka3d.com/fauxnews/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/soylent_green07.jpg

http://www.septicisle.info/uploaded_images/soylent_green-749218.gif

http://blogs.e-rockford.com/movieman/files/2008/04/soylent_l.jpg

http://www.tshirtbordello.com/images/Soylent-Green-lg.gif

http://www.robokopp.de/images/soylent_green/soylent_green06.jpg

:mfr_omg:Soylent Green is P....!!!!!

burgundia

11-25-2008, 07:38 PM

burgundia

11-25-2008, 07:51 PM

But GOD created us this way.
As beings who consume living resources.
We've to accept our position!

I myself would like to consume only sunlight, that would be good for my purse as for my waist.
But unfortunately that's not the way GOD created us.

.

How do you know for sure that God created us that way? There is so much talk going on about humans being created by someone else, or about someone tampering with our DNA, that maybe we are not the way we were originally created by God.And our task here is to become what we were supposed to be.

burgundia

11-25-2008, 07:57 PM

Aren't plants living creatures too? Or is it only OK to eat living organisms outside our biological classification?

What a senseless comparison! There is a big difference between a cabbage and a dog! Would you come up with a similar comparison if humans were food to other creatures?

King Lear

11-25-2008, 07:58 PM

But GOD created us this way.
As beings who consume living resources.
We've to accept our position!

I myself would like to consume only sunlight, that would be good for my purse as for my waist.
But unfortunately that's not the way GOD created us.

And don't mess with GOD!
I belive in him! Perhaps he isn't the white bearded man and perhaps aliens have played with our DNA, but at the end there's an eternal source from which everything came respectively which/who created everything.

And I name it GOD.

please quote me fully next time;)

burgundia

11-25-2008, 08:02 PM

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/5039/cowre3.png (http://imageshack.us)

http://smartcanucks.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/sad-tomato.jpg

I have a feeling that your vibrations are the lowest here. And I sense a lot of negativity from you.

King Lear

11-25-2008, 08:10 PM

I have a feeling that your vibrations are the lowest here. And I sense a lot of negativity from you.

yes you are right
i am always negative if a certain minority wants to force the majority to adapt the minorities way of life
and want them to throw their own way of life into the garbage can!

greetings
your negative KL

burgundia

11-25-2008, 08:26 PM

yes you are right
i am always negative if a certain minority wants to force the majority to adapt the minorities way of life
and want them to throw their own way of life into the garbage can!

greetings
your negative KL

1. I don't think any minority here is forcing anything on any majority. Minority cannot 'force" anything, but..."A small group of thoughtful people could change the world.Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
2.The negativity i sense from you comes from what you write, from the face of King lear anf from the pictures you attach.As if there is a hidden rage in you...

Metaphor

11-25-2008, 10:19 PM

I dont think it's wrong to eat meat, I love it :original:

Good for you then Swanny :wink2:

I actually tried some meat for dinner folks, as my kids (whom I wont force to do as I do, they´ll have to decide for themselves) had some ground beef (yes I was preparing it for them) and potatoes etc.
I just had to try some, to see how my feeling towards it was since we are having this little discussion. It was going into the bin anyway (I´m practical about it, dont like food being wasted- if the poor animal died for food, it shouldn´t be thrown away)
Well I have to say the taste is good and you can really feel the predatory instincts as you chew. But I have to say, as long as there is a choice I´ll stick to eating vegetables and the occasional fish. After one year on this diet I can really notice a big difference in general health and spiritual "clarity".

As being somewhere between carnivores and vegans, I can really say I wouldn´t like to keep either persons diet. Neither would I like to have one of the factions extremists over for dinner and discuss food. :no:

Extreme carnivores: I think its time you consider some time off from meat (if you dare) and see for your self what the difference will be. I for myself do not like the thought of that the bodys craving is dictating my behaviour, Its about discipline and it is a challenge. Just like any other task.

Militant vegans: Well its not a religion you know. Relax, you cannot change the world around you, only yourself and the way you see it. Whats the point in being kind to animals and instead being cruel to humans (I have seen alot of weird stuff passing around thats is very anti-human in the vegan community)
The psycholgy works like this: the more the vegan community try to give meat eaters feeling of guilt, the more meat carnivores eat- in some kind of protest. Ive seen it, and I know for a fact that this really happens.

Do what you think is best for you and the world around you. Do you do that?
I do that- and screw you If you want to force me to do things because it is the way you do things and it is "the way". Meat eater or not- let people develop in their own way in their own pace- anything else is just plain fascism! :thumbdown:

Karen

10-08-2009, 11:32 PM

bump

Swanny

10-09-2009, 09:46 AM

Please remember true Vegetarians dont eat fish

Kulapops

10-09-2009, 10:42 AM

Can I say that I'm now a Vegan that eats meat and dairy ?! :original:

Well, I'm a bit confused, about six months ago I read Raymond Francis' book, Never Be Sick Again... and of course that got me thinking about the hormones in meat, and the pesticides on fruit and veg...and that dairy is bad for you.

So I switched to soya and have stopped eating cheese.

Then I read Colin Campbell's 'The China Study', which suggests that consuming high levels of animal protein is not healthy for you, or rather it promotes cancer (common sense when you think that protein aids growth - why not cancer growth?!) and other conditions like heart disease and diabetes.

Ok... so that's put me off meat too. My last two girlfriends were vegetarian (before readin these) so I'm already used to not eating meat every day.

But I hate to give anything up totally. I rarely buy meat or fish at all now (one mackerel fillet is about all in the last 8 weeks!). But if I'm in a restuarant then I may well eat what I like. I'm more concerned about the Protein/Carbohydrate combining than whether I'm eating dead flesh or not!)

For health reasons, I think the non-dairy, meat free diet is best, but there's no harm in having the occasional think you enjoy, even if it is a cappucino !

:cup:

K

P.S. As for the spiritual aspect, I saw the meat van outside the butchers the other day and I really saw the carcasses as cadavers, distinctly. So I think your awareness does change. I used to worry , or think that in a survival situation, I'd have to know how to skin a rabbit. Now I see that's ridiculous. Better to learn what plants you can eat, and eat them instead. I don't particularly want to kill squirrels, they're way too cute :wub2:

rhythm

10-09-2009, 10:52 AM

All animals have a life

do we realy need to take it

so we can eat ....

NO NO NO !!!

meat eaters

that on your plate

is dead flesh ...

sorry feel real strong in this one

dont cate realy if you dont like what

i have to say .. more interested in

tha life of animals .... no pretence here

pok is pigs

beef is cows

veal is deer

human being are human beings ....

Swanny

10-09-2009, 11:49 AM

Rhythm your writing is invisable, think you need to change your text colour.

Kula sorry mate but I read that soya is really bad for you :naughty:

artvision

10-09-2009, 12:31 PM

Question for the meat eaters:

What is the difference from meat and this?

http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST/db2/read_letters.php?idx=7333&PHPSESSID=ab443f83761de6f8c7659fdae3da716a

Kulapops

10-09-2009, 12:50 PM

artvision

10-09-2009, 01:27 PM

Artvision. Ugh... that is really, really sick. Those photos. Just shows you what humans can bring themselves to do.

Does make you question if the one child per family law has any bearing on driving this. that is...lots of abortions, lots of 'product' to market.

Yes indeed, these are abhorrent and shocking pics, I stayed much thinking to show or not to show. But if we want to be truth with ourselves, this is the reality and we are not supposed to pamper ourselves, here.

I see your point Artvision, but I still personally wouldn't class eating a young animal (calf, lamb, chicken) as being the same as eating an unborn human foetus. It's a different race for a start and a foetus. K

Supposedly, there is another race that is looking also to us as food, there is no difference for them, between human flesh or animal flash. To be truthful with ourselves we are different races, but same, living creatures. Some of "specialists" bring the reason that we are OK to kill and eat animals because they are not thinking, or they are not felling, etc. This is a stupid excuse, as all animals have a nervous system of their own and have feelings and for sure they have sentiments, and a conscious live, we are not aware off or denying it.

By no means we are supposed to kill them, they are creatures of God, in the immensity of His Creation.

On a lighter note... Soya is bad for you ?? :wall:

Yes, indeed, seems soy has many estrogen hormones, making man more effeminate and decrease the sperm count and mobility. Indeed this issue could be used as an eugenic weapon, if you ask me.

So, my idea is that Illuminati took this correct percept of not eating meat, that they are very aware off (for example Hitler was vegetarian, etc) but they give a twist in their desired direction, giving people bad advises, promoting not healthy foods (soy, etc) for their eugenic purpose.

efields

10-09-2009, 03:22 PM

bump

Do you think your salad isn't YELLING as you Eat It.:mfr_omg:

Karen

10-09-2009, 07:03 PM

Do you think your salad isn't YELLING as you Eat It.:mfr_omg:

Oh I know it is. I bumped this thread to move the pro vegan talk over here as I believe all life, all existence is sacred. On planet earth life lives off eating other life. I think it's the attitude of gratitude and reverence for all things that has been lost, and needs to be restored in ALL aspects of human life. Yes, the book, The Secret Life of Plants explains it all - at how the plants scream and react also.

In the thread I started I am giving the evidence that the vast majority of people cannot be healthy on strict vegan diet. So I will have the courtesy to leave here now and go back to my thread.
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14114

Swanny

10-10-2009, 08:29 AM

I'm only having it on Weetabix... (don't tell me that's bad for you too ?!). Takes me almost ten days to get through a carton. I'm pretty sure it's healthier than drinking milk every day.

K
Sorry again but our bodies arent designed to digest wheat :naughty:

If you dont put milk on them what do you??
Water? Yuk!!!

Karen

10-10-2009, 08:42 AM

Sorry again but our bodies arent designed to digest wheat :naughty:

If you dont put milk on them what do you??
Water? Yuk!!!

I used to put juice on cereal sometimes. YUM!
Now I don't eat boxed cereal any more -

Snippet from a long article at
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

Be Kind to Your Grains
...And Your Grains Will Be Kind To You

But many healthy societies consume products made from grains. In fact, it can be argued that the cultivation of grains made civilization possible and opened the door for mankind to live long and comfortable lives. Problems occur when we are cruel to our grains-when we fractionate them into bran, germ and naked starch; when we mill them at high temperatures; when we extrude them to make crunchy breakfast cereals; and when we consume them without careful preparation.

Grains require careful preparation because they contain a number of antinutrients that can cause serious health problems. Phytic acid, for example, is an organic acid in which phosphorus is bound. It is mostly found in the bran or outer hull of seeds. Untreated phytic acid can combine with calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc in the intestinal tract and block their absorption. This is why a diet high in improperly prepared whole grains may lead to serious mineral deficiencies and bone loss. The modern misguided practice of consuming large amounts of unprocessed bran often improves colon transit time at first but may lead to irritable bowel syndrome and, in the long term, many other adverse effects.

TheObserver

10-10-2009, 02:44 PM

Omnivore, carnivore, or herbivore, eat what you want, don't tell others what to eat, drink or smoke and be merry for tomorrow we may die! :original:

chelmostef

10-10-2009, 03:01 PM

Omnivore, carnivore, or herbivore, eat what you want, don't tell others what to eat, drink or smoke and be merry for tomorrow we may die! :original:

I agree, thanks for adding that..:original:

Kulapops

10-10-2009, 03:12 PM

Yes indeed, these are abhorrent and shocking pics, I stayed much thinking to show or not to show. But if we want to be truth with ourselves, this is the reality and we are not supposed to pamper ourselves, here.

Supposedly, there is another race that is looking also to us as food, there is no difference for them, between human flesh or animal flash. To be truthful with ourselves we are different races, but same, living creatures. Some of "specialists" bring the reason that we are OK to kill and eat animals because they are not thinking, or they are not felling, etc. This is a stupid excuse, as all animals have a nervous system of their own and have feelings and for sure they have sentiments, and a conscious live, we are not aware off or denying it.

By no means we are supposed to kill them, they are creatures of God, in the immensity of His Creation.

Yes, indeed, seems soy has many estrogen hormones, making man more effeminate and decrease the sperm count and mobility. Indeed this issue could be used as an eugenic weapon, if you ask me.

So, my idea is that Illuminati took this correct percept of not eating meat, that they are very aware off (for example Hitler was vegetarian, etc) but they give a twist in their desired direction, giving people bad advises, promoting not healthy foods (soy, etc) for their eugenic purpose.

Soy = Estrogen ? I thought my curtains were looking lovely this last couple of weeks...

And yes, swanny, I know about the wheat thing too... but at least whole wheat is better than refined wheat.

And like someone said... all this proper diet and healthy eating, you might live another 10 years ! ... But it will feel like 20 :roll1:

Artvision, I agree (looky me ! I'm still posting, sub hasn't quite run out yet :wink2:) they've all got nervous systems, feelings et al. If I end a chicken's life, I'd accept I'm not just culling a bit of life, but ending a part of the bioweb. So that means I agree ditto with efields - that carrot is screaming as you pull it out of the ground 'Stop..stopstop stop stopopsttsttstop. op. ' It wants to live and feel the same as any turkey, just a slightly different level.

So logically we come back to eating fruit then. Hallelujah. Something we can eat and not feel guilty about. But maybe the guilt is the interesting part. In a book I'm reading at the mo, Fit for Life by Harvey Diamond, he mentions that 12 million years ago (ok, that is a long time if you're a creationist. Anyone? ) we were all eating fruit. In fact that is what our hands are perfectly adapted for. Not ripping and gutting.

That's exactly why, when we see a squirrel go by, our instinct is not to rip its head off and stuff it in our gobs...but to go... 'ahh... cutesy-ustesy little fella... does-ee want a nut then ?' So maybe our guilt trip that easily comes about eating meat and/or plants has a link back to those time.

But do I care about the fruit ? NO !

Bring me the head of Alfredo Pineapple :original:

K

P.S. Yes, I agree... chelmostef , everyone should not be told what to eat or what to wear or what to think... it's a personal journey...

chelmostef

10-10-2009, 04:17 PM

Soy = Estrogen ? I thought my curtains were looking lovely this last couple of weeks...

And yes, swanny, I know about the wheat thing too... but at least whole wheat is better than refined wheat.

And like someone said... all this proper diet and healthy eating, you might live another 10 years ! ... But it will feel like 20 :roll1:

Artvision, I agree (looky me ! I'm still posting, sub hasn't quite run out yet :wink2:) they've all got nervous systems, feelings et al. If I end a chicken's life, I'd accept I'm not just culling a bit of life, but ending a part of the bioweb. So that means I agree ditto with efields - that carrot is screaming as you pull it out of the ground 'Stop..stopstop stop stopopsttsttstop. op. ' It wants to live and feel the same as any turkey, just a slightly different level.

So logically we come back to eating fruit then. Hallelujah. Something we can eat and not feel guilty about. But maybe the guilt is the interesting part. In a book I'm reading at the mo, Fit for Life by Harvey Diamond, he mentions that 12 million years ago (ok, that is a long time if you're a creationist. Anyone? ) we were all eating fruit. In fact that is what our hands are perfectly adapted for. Not ripping and gutting.

That's exactly why, when we see a squirrel go by, our instinct is not to rip its head off and stuff it in our gobs...but to go... 'ahh... cutesy-ustesy little fella... does-ee want a nut then ?' So maybe our guilt trip that easily comes about eating meat and/or plants has a link back to those time.

But do I care about the fruit ? NO !

Bring me the head of Alfredo Pineapple :original:

K

P.S. Yes, I agree... chelmostef , everyone should not be told what to eat or what to wear or what to think... it's a personal journey...

It was over a year ago I started this thread I have to say I was a little shocked when it appeared again, some have a good memory.. Maybe mines a liitle rusty form all the soya I eat, but who knows. For me things have changed from a year ago, my opinions have changed, I feel more whole as person now than I did then. I am still vegan and feeling better every day. I do respect every ones opinion, completly. Its not my place to judge anyone, I firmly believe this.
I have somthing in me from a small child thats stuck up for the minority or down trodden. I guess this has moved to animals as I have grown up. Humans can be so cruel to each other, well to every thing around them realy. But its not my place to judge.

Life is complicated and we all have a parts to fill.

P.S

Kula your comment about the head of a Alfredo Pineapple certainly made me chuckle. :lol3:

p.p.s I also have better curtains now, nice ones with frily bits on (I've allways wondered why)

Stef