Jordanus Maximus and Why I Have Trouble Taking Project Camelot Seriously Anymore

[nostrovia]

Hi folks,

I know this will be hard for some people to stomach, and others will understand where I'm coming from. This year I learned that Jordan Maxwell is an Illuminati shill who's goal is like Michael Tsarion's and Zeitgiests, and many other "truth" movement people who are targeting people looking for the truth but then misdirecting them. Just about all of Jordan Maxwell's material and insights regarding religion is simply and demonstratively, and provably wrong. They come directly from the occultist Madam Blavatsky and IS the religion of the Illuminati elite which he, on the other hand, is also exposing. I'll say the reason why in a moment.

Watch these videos to see Jordan Maxwell's claims are false and misleading (and that's being kind):

Debunking Jordan Maxwell (revised edition)
jwugLx2rSJY

William Cooper Debunks Jordan Maxwell
zD1Vf5hoRfQ

Zeitgeist Refuted Final Cut
GYNmFQkHBaE

Here's why in a nutshell Jordan Maxwell and people with similar message such as Michael Tsarion say what they do.

My Rebuttal to the People/Religion is the Cause of Problems and War in the World

I have not been very religious in my life but I know religion is certainly not the problem nor the cause, the problem is also not people in general nor any war like characteristics. People can be stupid for sure but also overall forgiving and peaceful.

What causes war is simply the manipulations of the Illuminati political and financial elite which uses war to divide people, maintain fear and control, and to destroy sovereignty which societies normally gravitate toward. In this game of war religion is sometimes used as a false cause but it is religion which is the Illuminati's biggest scapegoat. By setting up and blaming religion for the world's problems they take the eyes of society off of them--the real problem--and by blaming religion they create a false enemy for people to hate and which they themselves can then replace and "save" the world from. This is an old game at hand. For example when the Roman Empire couldn't control and conquer Christianity they took it over creating the roman catholic church.

The religion they will replace our current religions with will be one of their own construction—a "new age" religion which we have been peddled for some time now.

Here are two great videos illustrating this from Chris White perspective (I'm sourcing his videos a lot here because he articulates this topic so well):

The Trouble with the Truth Movement
PA1sNmZwRl4

Religious Wars, Fact or Fiction?
eO3E-Q6lQfQ

Here's some great info from a comment on YouTube:

moonlightbateman (September 09, 2009)
A recent comprehensive compilation of the history of human warfare, Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 have been classified to involve a religious conflict. So, what atheists have considered to be "most" really amounts to less than 7% of all wars. It is interesting to note that 66 of these wars (more than 50%) involved Islam, and of the 17 wars the US has fought in, only 1 (the war on terror) had a religious component.

If you want to spend the time to understand this topic in much more detail check out this video. This should be totally new and eye opening for most people trained on public education history books. You'll see how war is manufactured like theater and sovereign nations destroyed and controlled:

1932, A True History of the United States
RgcdRCWEt4Q

This also leads to my concern with Project Camelot. I feel that if they had done a modicum of fact checking on Jordan Maxwell (real name Russell Pine) and what he says they'd have simply dismissed him or maybe even exposed him. I'm now finding it difficult to listen to anything Project Camelot related, and I wish this wasn't so.

Best regards.

PS an update. I actually wrote this below in a later post, but felt that it was important enough to copy and paste up into this first post too, since it's addressing the important question of what about the "other" things Jordan talks about:

I think Jordan's commentary about the Fed and the ruling elite are pretty accurate actually, that's part of what makes Jordan a tricky fellow. He's exposing the elite so they can replace themselves with a solution (i.e. problem, reaction, solution formula), and also exposing their religion and their beliefs to the external world to get the world to buy into their religion instead of the current major religions. Essentially the "new age" religion which has much focus on the individual as their own god and savior--it's really a platform based on Luciferian ideals and they're very open about that, as someone stated above, and essentially occult in nature.

One of the tenants is to neutralize other religions by making them seem they are based on ancient wisdom, astrology, and marginalize those religions as war like, dogmatic, non-unique, radical, etc. Part of the problem is in order to foist their religion on people they use trickery and lies, and their motive is not a "free" people but a 100% enslaved people believing and doing what the Illuminati want them to. That is a major concern, because they are very successful as you'll see in the videos.

New Age Infiltration of the Truth Movement
http://vimeo.com/4518691

[burgundia]

I share your concerns...

[truthseekerdan]

You might be right. I had a feeling that Jordan Maxwell is not who he projects to be.

Intuition don't let me down...

[Truthseeker512]

What is the evidence he is Illuminati?

[kriya]

Me too!

I have my doubts about Jordon Maxwell simply because he is an advocate of Theosophy, which is Luciferian, and of the darkside.

Love,

Kriya

[nostrovia]

Hey Truthseeker512. Good question. The evidence is that what Jordan Maxwell says in regard to religion is demonstravely false, and is the same "story" (and from the same source) that the Illuminati themselves say they are using to gain control of the world. It's also the defacto religion of the Illuminati, and the same story they implanted into the high levels of freemasonry when they targeted it and infilitrated it. They have other targets too, like schools. Here's a video by KeithTruth that does a fantastic job of outlining Illuminati history, agenda, and successes:

lLRBpTjefrs

BTW--I love your sig!

[Truthseeker512]

Ill have a watch.

I watched one of the vids above. Im not convinced.

Yeah he makes some mistakes. I picked up one once, 'Men of Soddom'-'The gay men, the homosexuals'. No, The men from the town of Soddom. He even referred to the men from the town of soddom later in the same lecture.
Its my understanding he just gets too caught up in it he doesnt know when to stop trying to link things together.
Thats the problem with the field he works in. Its so big and difficult to study its no wonder he gets some stuff wrong. Any human being would.
A lot of history is open to interpretation and more often than not is wrong.
A lot of his stuff seems to be holding up as truth so im still on the fence with this at the mo

Cheers

[Stardustaquarion]

I guess that my biggest question will be why is it that, if Jordan Maxwell really cares for the enlightment of humanity that he has not make us privy of the way this symbols affect us and which are the correct symbols that will benefit us

I very easy to call fire but if we don't say where is it, how can that help us?

Personally I will want to see documentation from the thruth movement with regards that he is an illuminati, they have presented none. But, he has interesting friends that seem to be conected with the illuminati

Nevertheless, I will reserve my opinion until someone can really come forth with hard evidence.

That aside, we have been bombarded with disinformation by the new age movement which makes things rather confusing

The truth is inside ourselves in our own cellular memory so, I bring everything inwards and decide whether it serves me because sometimes some thruth can come from the illuminati too

Love

[waitinginthewings]

I listened to an interview with him on Coast to Coast recently (or I should say part of the interview). I stopped listening about half way through, because he was constantly ranting about the "stupid sheep" and many other derogratory terms about people. I believe it embarrased George Noory, who said "nothing" in the vain hope that Jordan might give up his rant, but he didn't.

This to me speaks volumes about who or what Jordan is. The first rant I let it go, but when he kept it up, I dismissed him as not worthy to listen to. He speaks from the height of arrogance, & frequently reminds us of how many years he has spent researching....blah, blah, blah. That we are all lazy etc.

Yes people, get it straight, Jordan has the truth, the whole truth & nothing but a lot of inflated ego.:lol3:

[HORIZONS]

My experience is that TRUE religion is within you, within each of us, and that we must go within to find that Truth. All external religion is bogus, for though we may find facts about the truth "out there" somewhere, we will only find the Truth within our own consciousness. Anything or anyone that causes you to seek in the external realms for the Truth is misdirecting you. So when JM says that all religion is a lie he is half right -- all external religion is the lie, and is meant to control you in some way or another. Every Mystic and Sage has known this throughout all time.

Peace~

[omshanti]

[QUOTE=kriya;257934]Me too!

I have my doubts about Jordon Maxwell simply because he is an advocate of Theosophy, which is Luciferian, and of the darkside.

No offence intended Kriya, but, "darkside", "lightside"...goodies, baddies...I really tire of these hasty judgments and ultimatums.

I listened to a recent interview and JW said he was influenced 1% by Theosophy and the writings of M Blavatsky.
He did say, however, that he respected people who followed the seeking of knowledge and wisdom teachings with passion...

Personally, over the years, I have appreciated the research and contributions of JW. Yet his alignment with Z Sitchin and sumerian clay translations (with the coming of Marduk and so forth) does not ring true for me.
I also tune off when JW rants about how stupid and moronic humans are...this is so unnecessary and is degrading to hear. But not one of us is fully enlightened. and so it is.

However, I find there is always something from me to learn from ALL researchers; something for me to consider. I do not always have to agree and ceratainly, not everything rings true.

I do not need to dismiss a person as "illuminati" (what does this mean exactly?) plus their long years of work and dedication to their passion and truth seeking interest.

I believe we are ALL compromised by the illuminati to varying degrees and at the same time we are ALL connected. We are all changing depending upon how we think of ourselves and others...

This is the game.

[lightworker27]

IMHO, Ghandi said there is truth in all religion. I personally think that all religions have inspirational stories on how to be a better human being. There are two important elements in all of them "Faith" and "Love". The rest is just a way to control people. I believe that the real truth is inside all of us.

In regards to Zeitgeist, I will say that I don't agree with his presentation about religion. But I do agree that the current Religious Leaders use it as a form of control. But the main point of Zeitgeist is the Monetary System which have created slaves out all of us. I am from the Banking Industry and I agree with his theory that if money was out our lives most of our current problems would be gone.

The main issue with society today is education and lack of awareness. I believe TPB don't want society to be aware of their actions and by keeping them ignorant and busy with other things ex: the economy, rising prices, etc.


Light and Love to all

[BlueHand]

Hi folks,

I know this will be hard for some people to stomach, and others will understand where I'm coming from. This year I learned that Jordan Maxwell is an Illuminati shill who's goal is like Michael Tsarion's and Zeitgiests, and many other "truth" movement people who are targeting people looking for the truth but then misdirecting them. Just about all of Jordan Maxwell's material and insights regarding religion is simply and demonstratively, and provably wrong. They come directly from the occultist Madam Blavatsky and IS the religion of the Illuminati elite which he, on the other hand, is also exposing. I'll say the reason why in a moment.

Watch this video to see Jordan Maxwell's claims are false and misleading (and that's being kind):

Jordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7i0XctXxl0

Zeitgeist Refuted Final Cut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYNmFQkHBaE

Here's why in a nutshell Jordan Maxwell and people with similar message such as Michael Tsarion say what they do.

My Rebuttal to the People/Religion is the Cause of Problems and War in the World

I have not been very religious in my life but I know religion is certainly not the problem nor the cause, the problem is also not people in general nor any war like characteristics. People can be stupid for sure but also overall forgiving and peaceful.

What causes war is simply the manipulations of the Illuminati political and financial elite which uses war to divide people, maintain fear and control, and to destroy sovereignty which societies normally gravitate toward. In this game of war religion is sometimes used as a false cause but it is religion which is the Illuminati's biggest scapegoat. By setting up and blaming religion for the world's problems they take the eyes of society off of them--the real problem--and by blaming religion they create a false enemy for people to hate and which they themselves can then replace and "save" the world from. This is an old game at hand. For example when the Roman Empire couldn't control and conquer Christianity they took it over creating the roman catholic church.

The religion they will replace our current religions with will be one of their own construction—a "new age" religion which we have been peddled for some time now.

Here are two great videos illustrating this from Chris White perspective (I'm sourcing his videos a lot here because he articulates this topic so well):

The Trouble with the Truth Movement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA1sNmZwRl4

Religious Wars, Fact or Fiction?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO3E-Q6lQfQ

Here's some great info from a comment on YouTube:

moonlightbateman (September 09, 2009)
A recent comprehensive compilation of the history of human warfare, Encyclopedia of Wars by Charles Phillips and Alan Axelrod documents 1763 wars, of which 123 have been classified to involve a religious conflict. So, what atheists have considered to be "most" really amounts to less than 7% of all wars. It is interesting to note that 66 of these wars (more than 50%) involved Islam, and of the 17 wars the US has fought in, only 1 (the war on terror) had a religious component.

If you want to spend the time to understand this topic in much more detail check out this video. This should be totally new and eye opening for most people trained on public education history books. You'll see how war is manufactured like theater and sovereign nations destroyed and controlled:

1932, A True History of the United States
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgcdRCWEt4Q

This also leads to my concern with Project Camelot. I feel that if they had done a modicum of fact checking on Jordan Maxwell (real name Russell Pine) and what he says they'd have simply dismissed him or maybe even exposed him. I'm now finding it difficult to listen to anything Project Camelot related, and I wish this wasn't so.

Best regards.

I'm not agreeing with you nor disagreeing with you about Jordan,I respect your view. Jordan has a wealth of knowledge and research behind him which I'm thankful for.It doesn't mean I agree with everything Jordan (Russell) says though.

I thought this was an interesting interview where Jordan was quoted as saying his main influence was is in fact "MANLY P HALL"
source: http://www.veritasshow.com/index.html click for audio player and select Jordan Maxwell interview.
Manly P Hall archive can be found here http://www.manlyphall.org/

Intersting all the same.

[Traverser]

Hi All,

I've had the same thought myself over Jordan Maxwell and his message.

There's a similar Thread here: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=18024
And here was my reply on that thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=251193#post251193

What I have trouble with, is the message that not only Jordan Mawell is offering but also the likes of Alex Jones, David Icke, Michael Tsarion et al.
It leaves all this, well, sort of hanging in the air so to speak.
The afore mentioned people I do believe have hit on something but what they've done has brought this to our attention, and as we know; "Thoughts Are Things".

So What Now..?

That's the BIG Question!
The message I feel I'm left with, a lot of the time is one of pasifism, which in theory I'm not against at all. However, what are we actually achieving.

A 'Rage Against The Machine' is totally out of the question. It'd be a 'No Win' situation.
Besides, They've all the best toys.:lightsabre:

Would it be too much to expect that one, preferably all to step forward and perhaps be, not so much leaders but figure-heads for 'Peaceful Non-Conformance'?

I suppose like a lot of us, they're perhaps too wrapped up in this 'Matrix' to actually step up to the plate and do something about it, they have bills to pay to y'know.
So on with the speaking circuits and radio show's, it must be.

And for me?
Well, for the time being I'll continue to; as Mahatma Gandhi said: "Be the change you want to see in the world."

Love and Light to All.

Namaste,
Trav. :wub2:

[Brian En]

Hi folks,

I know this will be hard for some people to stomach, and others will understand where I'm coming from. This year I learned that Jordan Maxwell is an Illuminati shill


I can't say whether you are right or wrong, but thank you for sharing you're finding. I'll check those videos in a bit. In this whole deal I think the hardest thing to do is keep an open mind. The most difficult ones are the conspiracies within the conspiracies. Motives are hard to deduce in the people in the public eye unless there are hard core facts.
In this case tape recorded meetings between JM and his Ilumiatti handlers would be helpful. Without solid proof we all have to rely on our intuitions until the facts can be made public. Then again would those facts be trustworthy? Again intution. Yup, that's we have.

[nostrovia]

Hey Truthseeker512. Thanks for your insight. Let us know what you think once you watch the videos. This one in particular is probably a good one for you:

New Age Infiltration of the Truth Movement
http://vimeo.com/4518691

A lot of history is open to interpretation and more often than not is wrong.
A lot of his stuff seems to be holding up as truth so im still on the fence with this at the mo


Yeah, I've found the same thing. History is a mess. Much of it is manipulated, revised and removed. I think Jordan's commentary about the Fed and the ruling elite are pretty accurate actually, that's part of what makes Jordan a tricky fellow. He's exposing the elite so they can replace themselves with a solution (i.e. problem, reaction, solution formula), and also exposing their religion and their beliefs to the external world to get the world to buy into their religion instead of the current major religions. Essentially the "new age" religion which has much focus on the individual as their own god and savior--it's really a platform based on Luciferian ideals and they're very open about that, as someone stated above, and essentially occult in nature.

One of the tenants is to neutralize other religions by making them seem they are based on ancient wisdom, astrology, and marginalize those religions as war like, dogmatic, non-unique, radical, etc. Part of the problem is in order to foist their religion on people they use trickery and lies, and their motive is not a "free" people but a 100% enslaved people believing and doing what the Illuminati want them to. That is a major concern, because they are very successful as you'll see in the videos.

[orthodoxymoron]

I think Jordan is trying to do the right thing...even though he may not always get it right. He has been around a lot of Illuminati and Secret Society people. He received Manly Hall's personal notes after Manly died. That speaks volumes. He is a fan of Blavatsky works such as 'Isis Unveiled'. When one becomes deeply involved in studying the occult...some of the bad-stuff is bound to stick. I think this is a very dangerous area of research. I think a lot of what we discuss on Avalon is dangerous. It's a necessary study...but researcher beware. I like Jordan Maxwell a lot...but I take what he says with a saltshaker.

[nostrovia]

Hey BlueHand,

I thought this was an interesting interview where Jordan was quoted as saying his main influence was is in fact "MANLY P HALL"
source: http://www.veritasshow.com/index.html click for audio player and select Jordan Maxwell interview.
Manly P Hall archive can be found here http://www.manlyphall.org/

Good catch! Yes, Manly P Hall was an Illuminati Freemason and subscribed to the same source of occult religion as Jordan Maxwell, that is the infamous Helena Blavatsky.

Here's a real quick click of Jordan saying how much he loves the openly Luciferian philosophy of Blavatsky:

-UvpwsLLUYU

[ConspiracyMovies_org]

I have an issue with most truthseekers who create videos and/or books, the vast majority do not seem to come up with any solutions. They are happy to expose the problem but are lacking when it comes to ideas what we can do to change the way things are heading. Sort of like the shock factor is all they are interested in. Without solutions being offered we're just a lot of headless chickens running around blaming people and not bothering to consider the opportunities to make the changes necessary for ourselves.

[joe2288]

:blowup:

[nostrovia]

Brian En:

The most difficult ones are the conspiracies within the conspiracies. Motives are hard to deduce in the people in the public eye unless there are hard core facts.

Great points. Thanks for sharing. I believe you're right about these conspiracies within conspiracies. I've been suprised about what I've found in that you hear something you think is the truth, then you peel another layer back and you find it isn't the truth at all, then you need to peel that onion again to get at the truth. I've seen this in the areas of medicine, sciences, history, you name it.

I think we have a human tendency us truth seekers which gets us into a lot of trouble. That is that when we see a problem in the world we seek the truth, so we look for the people speaking against the thing we think is wrong, and because they speak against it we're more likely to let our guard down and believe what they say without as much question. They seem to come across as the good guys! But, unfortunately I've found that there's a layer of disinformation there designed to trap the truthies and distract them. Jordan and other's like him I feel are part of that. For example I used to love and believe Gregg Braden until I found that just about everything he says is miscommunicated balony and fiction. The only thing I still like about him is his commentary on the "lost mode of prayer", though even that smacks a bit of the new age movement.

Here's a quick expose on Braden too. Gregg Braden Debunked:
7rkwQgeJcFs

[joe2288]

Traverser:



Great points. Thanks for sharing. I believe you're right about these conspiracies within conspiracies. I've been suprised about what I've found in that you hear something you think is the truth, then you peel another layer back and you find it isn't the truth at all, then you need to peel that onion again to get at the truth. I've seen this in the areas of medicine, sciences, history, you name it.

I think we have a human tendency us truth seekers which gets us into a lot of trouble. That is that when we see a problem in the world we seek the truth, so we look for the people speaking against the thing we think is wrong, and because they speak against it we're more likely to let our guard down and believe what they say without as much question. They seem to come across as the good guys! But, unfortunately I've found that there's a layer of disinformation there designed to trap the truthies and distract them. Jordan and other's like him I feel are part of that. For example I used to love and believe Gregg Braden until I found that just about everything he says is miscommunicated balony and fiction. The only thing I still like about him is his commentary on the "lost mode of prayer", though even that smacks a bit of the new age movement.

Here's a quick expose on Braden too. Gregg Braden Debunked:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rkwQgeJcFs

So how do we know this guy has any validity and he isn't some insider

trying to discredit people

[Rocky_Shorz]

Just a quick note to everyone, Bill and Kerry have brought forth the whistle blowers to share their stories, not as fact...

The intelligence and truths come from the discussions after the fact opening each of our eyes by those who have taken the time to dig for answers...

I myself have LMAO at some of the outrageous things I've seen and heard in some videos and if I thought all of them were true I'd be looking for a way to hop off the planet...

I think having a discussion area for the different videos is a critical part of what is being learned.

The true crime would be taking away the voices of reason so videos could be shown without contradiction... :shocked:

[nostrovia]

Hey Rocky Shorz,

That's true. Kerry and Bill do say that they don't believe everything they hear from their interviews. Jordan makes me nervous though. It would be nice if they'd challenge his false claims. Bill Cooper once challenged Jordan a bit on one point on his radio show and Jordan had to admit that what he was saying was not fact but just a belief of the elite, which he usually doesn't have to do because he states things as fact and people I think tend to just listen without questioning. I used to also. There's a clip of this I believe in one of the videos I posted above but I don't recall which. I think it's the Jordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life one.

[MargueriteBee]

Me too!

I have my doubts about Jordon Maxwell simply because he is an advocate of Theosophy, which is Luciferian, and of the darkside.

Love,

Kriya


Respectfully, would you please provide some information as to why you state this about theosophy. I just started reading Dion Fortune books and she seems to explain alot.

[Traverser]

So how do we know this guy has any validity and he isn't some insider

trying to discredit people

Hi Joe,

To whom do you refer?

nostrovia? Braden? or Myself?

Just to clarify my friend, I Don't understand who you mean..!

Love and Light,

Trav.

[eMonkey]

Hi folks,

I know this will be hard for some people to stomach, and others will understand where I'm coming from. This year I learned that Jordan Maxwell is an Illuminati shill who's goal is like Michael Tsarion's and Zeitgiests, and many other "truth" movement people who are targeting people looking for the truth but then misdirecting them. Just about all of Jordan Maxwell's material and insights regarding religion is simply and demonstratively, and provably wrong. They come directly from the occultist Madam Blavatsky and IS the religion of the Illuminati elite which he, on the other hand, is also exposing. I'll say the reason why in a moment.

Watch this video to see Jordan Maxwell's claims are false and misleading (and that's being kind):


I will only concede that he does rant, but there are always opportunities to learn something and grow from all of the interviews. You make your own decisions, conclusions and research. As my mentor would say, "Do not throw the baby with the bath water". You are ridiculing the whole of PC for one of many interviews whether questionable or not. It is not a view I can share.

However, thank you for sharing your own thoughts.

[nostrovia]

Hey eMonkey,

Thanks I respect your take and comments. Best regards.

[nostrovia]

Respectfully, would you please provide some information as to why you state this about theosophy. I just started reading Dion Fortune books and she seems to explain alot.

Hey MargueriteBee, if you don't mind let me point you to one quick resource now, and kriya can add any resource as well. This is a 9 minute video helping to answer your question:

uyeZoQg76T4

Best regards.

[joe2288]

Hi Joe,

To whom do you refer?

nostrovia? Braden? or Myself?

Just to clarify my friend, I Don't understand who you mean..!

Love and Light,

Trav.

The guy who made this movieJordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life

I do not agree with Jorden Maxwell either, but he discredits too many people

in other movies I believe he is just trying to create factions in the

alternative communities.

[Traverser]

I will only concede that he does rant, but there are always opportunities to learn something and grow from all of the interviews. You make your own decisions, conclusions and research. As my mentor would say, "Do not throw the baby with the bath water". You are ridiculing the whole of PC for one of many interviews whether questionable or not. It is not a view I can share.

However, thank you for sharing your own thoughts.

Hi eMonkey,

I great saying indeed.:original:
I must say, It'd be folly to discredit all information offered to us by Jordan Maxwell, there are some idealogical idea's in there that be great to have happen.

However, we must tread carefully when it comes to the reasons How? and Why? these ideologies would be brought about. An example being; The Forced Reduction of the World Population.

Look, I for one am truely Grateful to Bill & Kerry for their work thus far and I don't see it as ridicule, Not for one moment!
It's merely opinions based on the information that has been gathered up until now. It's finding what 'Resonates'.

I can fully see the questioning of such information once it's presented.

One question may be; If Christanity was Plagerised somewhat and Hijacked for an ulterior motive, then Why not the "New Age" and "Theosophy"?

Love and Light to All

Trav.

[nostrovia]

Hey joe2288,

Thanks for commenting. I've been watching the Chris White videos and listening to a ton of his podcasts recently, well in the last about 3 months, and from my experience he's genuinely trying to share what he's found. He definitely discredits some folks, but he also supports a lot of others, and by discrediting I believe he's genuinely trying to help people see a truth that he found and not create factions. He's really honest about his intent. He's also a truth seeker and was caught up in believing a lot of the hype from the Jordan Maxwell's of the world.

Just thought I'd give you my take on him since I used his videos a lot since they're so succinct and I've found reliable.

[micjer]

mfqDW-LwlRk

[Traverser]

The guy who made this movieJordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life

I do not agree with Jorden Maxwell either, but he discredits too many people

in other movies I believe he is just trying to create factions in the

alternative communities.

Hi Joe,

I get you now, Thanks for clearing that up for me...:original:

There is a lot of conflicting information out there, you're right.
One huge melting pot, my friend.

However, the power behind the scene's pulling the strings, well, they've had a bit of a head start on us. Millenia if we've to believe what we're told.

So as in any melting pot, the scum should rise to the top where it's easily removed.:thumb_yello:

Love and Light to All

Namaste,
Trav.

[Sandra]

[QUOTE=nostrovia;257879]Hi folks,

I know this will be hard for some people to stomach, and others will understand where I'm coming from. This year I learned that Jordan Maxwell is an Illuminati shill who's goal is like Michael Tsarion's and Zeitgiests, and many other "truth" movement people who are targeting people looking for the truth but then misdirecting them. Just about all of Jordan Maxwell's material and insights regarding religion is simply and demonstratively, and provably wrong. They come directly from the occultist Madam Blavatsky and IS the religion of the Illuminati elite which he, on the other hand, is also exposing. I'll say the reason why in a moment.

Hello Nostrovia,

I listened lectures by Jordan Maxwell,and I must admit, that my intuition was telling me that something is wrong with story he tries to picture to us.I never questioned his conclusion,because he was researching this subject for 40 and some years!He must be telling the true! I saw later that this fact(researching 40+years on subject),has nothing to do with true,at least with real true,maybe with illuminati true, yes.
Maybe William Cooper was honest true seeker and real hero of our times.
My point is that we must find the true for ourself,not to be disappointed on what we are crossing through finding it,and not to be afraid.
I still think that there is a lot of people doing the right thing for humanity from the heart.
Here is one link about William Cooper and Jordan Maxwell,you may find it interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD1Vf5hoRfQ

[K626]

He has gone over but sometimes you have to go over to really understand what you're looking at.

Peace.

K

[3optic]

I've got no problem with the links Nostrovia posted and have watched much of this material.

The problem I have is with the title of this thread. Why should this reflect negatively on PC? Maxwell gives compelling information. If I ran a site like this I would add him to the library. Are you kidding? Didn't he start a lot of this stuff with his videos?

"Man this site isn't at all like the one I'm never gonna make..":lmao:

[wynderer]

very en-Lightening thread --

i just watched the Keith Thompson Infiltration film -- our reptilian masters function/control us best from 4D where symbols rule [not in 5D & up tho]

this deal w/the Aquarian Age, the symbol being the water carrier 'god' [i.e., reptilian, probably Draco] spilling the water -- didn't Jordanus M or Michael T talk about the little water carrier thingy shown in the hands of some of the carvings/statues of thesumerian/other reptilian-controlled ancient cultures, & that it was the essence of humans in the thingy?

so, w/the aquarian age symbol, are they letting us know that the Life force here on Earth is about to be spilled out/destroyed in some way? i believe the 'peace' of the new world they envision is the 'peace' of the grey clones who serve the reptilians -- James Casbolt recent writings about AI might be significant here

[edit for this PS -- i don't think these newagey kind of folks like to say the name Jesus -- they call Him the water carrier or the fish god or variations on the 'Christ consciousness' ]

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[MichalPtacnik]

It's much more harmful to be infighting like this, over the "purity of doctrine" than to admit a few "black sheep." They can do nothing if you employ critical thinking anyways! Chances even are "Jordanus Maximus" is sincere, though he might be wrong in many things. The videos debunking him, apart of pointing obvious fallacies are themselves very fallacious, point at non-arguments and are filled with demagogy; I respect their author for these about the same as I respect Jordan Maxwell for his IS-RA-EL remark. Also, while Theosophy might or might not be the belief of the Illuminati,
1. New Age is not Theosophy anymore, they stem from similar premises but New Age is one hundred years younger and it shows; and
2. Not all Theosophy is the root of all evil.

Say, ever heard about the racial notions in real New Age? Almost never. The problem is that races were "in" when Theosophy was made, just as, say peace and flowers were "in" in the sixties. So Theosophy was amongst many other things about races, but it was not all there is to it.

I am not saying all theosophists were good, that some were not misguided, that some might be worshiping the "Lord of this World" or so to say, (much as some New Agers almost certainly do) but the sincere Theosophist is about as bad a tool for the NWO as the sincere New Ager, or the sincere Christian, etc. Only if you decide to abandon your God for Mammon, then you are eligible as a puppet, and look how many religious people have done that in the past. New Age is actually one of the "purest" religions in this respect, if only it is because it is the youngest.

And by the way, what do you think is so bad on Zeitgeist? Venus project is a vision of a better world we need, perhaps not to dogmatically adhere to, but the ideas are groundbreaking and real. And the anti-religious stance? Religions, any "-ism" and "-ity" are invariably watered down versions of their original messages, and to kill each other for religious exclusivity is exactly as bad as Peter Joseph states for everyone.

I am not saying that we should all be atheist, but neither does Zeitgeist. It advocates spirituality, not religion, and I am 100% for that. And who is not? Who of you here really adheres the insane "us vs. them" conflicts between Christians and Muslims and Hindus and whomever else; and who believes that the -isms are really God's will, and that one of them is the One True -sim and all the others are "of the Devil"? Who of you believes these ideas should belong to the world of the future?
Joseph was brave enough to formulate this, he was a touch too extreme in that he hinted that we should abolish and not outgrow these religions, but he at least did not repeat the politically correct kool-aid - and is criticized for it.

Oh and for the record, I do believe Jordan Maxwell's "IS-RA-EL" and other quotes are incorrect in the extreme and I don't take him as much of an authority, but neither do Bill and Kerry, I believe, they are correct in taking his, and everyone else's messages for what they are and that is why I respect them as researchers; not as gurus, but as people who honestly seek the truth.

[MichalPtacnik]

Oh and by the way, before someone mentions it, not all references to Lucifer in less-than-absolutely-negative light mean that the belief is satanic. They might consider him anything from an archetype of a rebel who decides to turn against purely dogmatic views to a tester (perhaps this is the true meaning of the Creme's oft-discussed quote about "Luciferic initiation").

In fact, Lucifer was originally an angel, and I don't mean "before the fall," I mean in the Hebrew Bible, see Book of Job for example. Were the Torah worshiping Jews Satanists? I strongly doubt so; yet they considered Lucifer to be in the "employ" of God, and so do Muslims. And isn't it a much more "monotheistic" way how to look at this problem than what Christians do, who made over the years Satan into a manichean anti-God? Obviously either is illogical if taken literally (since that would imply God is not a loving God, to say it in short), but that's another matter entirely.

Obviously, Lucifer is a difficult subject. My take on it is that whoever claims he can "bargain" with him in other than a very subtly metaphoric way is probably in error (not that it's impossible, it just does not lead to enlightenment), so are they who claim to worship him, but that's also not set in stone; but neither is the satanism of such people set in stone, being in error does not mean being evil, it just means that their esoteric doctrine has been confused, and that is all.

The rule is: If you hear about someone "being satanic," "eating babies," or "worshiping a Donkey" or whatever, nine times out of ten it is a slander born out of ignorance.

And by the way if I see one more reference to "Theosophy inspired Hitler = Theosophy is eeeeveeeel" or similar piece of logical prostitution based on lack of understanding, I think I am going to puke then and there. :winksmiley02:

[MichalPtacnik]

very en-Lightening thread --

i just watched the Keith Thompson Infiltration film -- our reptilian masters function/control us best from 4D where symbols rule [not in 5D & up tho]

this deal w/the Aquarian Age, the symbol being the water carrier 'god' [i.e., reptilian, probably Draco] spilling the water -- didn't Jordanus M or Michael T talk about the little water carrier thingy shown in the hands of some of the carvings/statues of thesumerian/other reptilian-controlled ancient cultures, & that it was the essence of humans in the thingy?

so, w/the aquarian age symbol, are they letting us know that the Life force here on Earth is about to be spilled out/destroyed in some way? i believe the 'peace' of the new world they envision is the 'peace' of the grey clones who serve the reptilians -- James Casbolt recent writings about AI might be significant here

[edit for this PS -- i don't think these newagey kind of folks like to say the name Jesus -- they call Him the water carrier or the fish god or variations on the 'Christ consciousness' ]

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

As i've stated before, the problem is that
1. The worship of the man Jesus if you're not worshiping Him the way Indians worship their gurus, as an example, as the "word and the way," as a guide, but as God totally and fundamentally external of yourself, borders on idolatry. Indeed, ANY worship of a God who is not invested in part in you and who is not capable, or willing, or whatever to absorb you, or so to say, to enlighten you, is most likely idolatry/Satanism/worship of the Lord of this World anyways. :)

2. The old Christians, though they did not have the vocabulary, would most likely state that Christ Consciousness is a good term. The Kingdom is within you and all that. Christianity was never meant to be a cult, it was a way to return to the Kingdom through the Grace of God; the modern churchianity is nothing like that, it offers a goal, but not the way.

3. Precession exists and it most likely works, just as Astrology works if that is used as it is meant to be used, as a mirror for the (lower) soul. So yeah, Age of Aquarius is after the Age of Pisces and yeah, where's the luciferism in this? And why the bleep should we see a big bad reptilian behind the image of the Aquarius? Astrology is an internal matter anyways, and the "demonic" or "reptillian" part of our consciousness come from the excesses in the "influence of the stars," but there is not one "star" (planet or constellation) that would be of itself reptilian; there is really nothing to fear from this.

Look, the greatest obstacle to anything in this World of Action is indecisiveness; and you promote that the best by pointing at every shadow and screaming "SATAN!!!!" That way, no one will really be sure what to do, what not to do, and that their allies are really allies but that they are "imposters." And that, positively, is a road to Hell, paved by good intentions as it should be.

[wynderer]

here's a thought: the reptilian 'gods' & 'goddesses' living for a very long time & having been in total control of this Earth-based karmic loop timeline since sumerian times if not earler -- they & their higher-ups know who Christ Jesus is and what He did/was going to do/ is doing, including the coming Final Battle -- they knew when He was coming to this dark planet as a human long before He did so

easy enough, w/the reptilian understanding of the human mind, & w/their relative freedom from the time prison they have humans in -- easy enough to work w/their favorite thing, symbols/archetypes, deep in the collective human psyche, to implant these myths before Jesus lived them out, as a way to discredit Him -- it's all a big chess game to them

a net friend of mine signed up for an online 'mystery school' Jordanus M is teaching -- more flooding her mind w/symbols created by our rulers for our control... sigh

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[MichalPtacnik]

here's a thought: the reptilian 'gods' & 'goddesses' living for a very long time & having been in total control of this Earth-based karmic loop timeline since sumerian times if not earler -- they & their higher-ups know who Christ Jesus is and what He did/was going to do/ is doing, including the coming Final Battle -- they knew when He was coming to this dark planet as a human long before He did so

easy enough, w/the reptilian understanding of the human mind, & w/their relative freedom from the time prison they have humans in -- easy enough to work w/their favorite thing, symbols/archetypes, deep in the collective human psyche, to implant these myths before Jesus lived them out, as a way to discredit Him -- it's all a big chess game to them

a net friend of mine signed up for an online 'mystery school' Jordanus M is teaching -- more flooding her mind w/symbols created by our rulers for our control... sigh

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

That is more than probable. (after a certain manner) The problem as I see it is that the "reptillian corruption" is much more evident in, say, contemporary Christianity than in New Age.

[Slerbot]

People are so fast to jump on the next bandwagon out of town.

Just because someone can produce evidence of possible mistakes,
biases, or even a certain religeous leaning (not convincing either)
does not automatically prove the subject a shill.

We've been tricked again, eh? Tiresome. And maybe tricked by the
expose, too? Now a counter punch of 32 episodes is required.
My brain hurts.

Let's keep watching the super rich of all nationalities, banker scum,
shadow govt's and bustards de vatican. Debunking some of that crock would be more useful.

Using your intuition is a good idea alright.. mine said he liked to 'dabble' in
the dark stuff (doesn't mean luciferian.. but the occult is his bag after all!! - he likes symbolism and the hidden, so what).

He also likes to make important connections clearer which were not apparent, and he is almost on his own in that one.

[3optic]

People are so fast to jump on the next bandwagon out of town.

Just because someone can produce evidence of possible mistakes,
biases, or even a certain religeous leaning (not convincing either)
does not automatically prove the subject a shill.

We've been tricked again, eh? Tiresome. And maybe tricked by the
expose, too? Now a counter punch of 32 episodes is required.
My brain hurts.

Let's keep watching the super rich of all nationalities, banker scum,
shadow govt's and bustards de vatican. Debunking some of that crock would be more useful.

Using your intuition is a good idea alright.. mine said he liked to 'dabble' in
the dark stuff (doesn't mean luciferian.. but the occult is his bag after all!! - he likes symbolism and the hidden, so what).

He also likes to make important connections clearer which were not apparent, and he is almost on his own in that one.

Everyone start paying attention to Slerbot's posts. We got a star in the making here. A STAR I tell you!

[sjkted]

Hey Rocky Shorz,

That's true. Kerry and Bill do say that they don't believe everything they hear from their interviews. Jordan makes me nervous though. It would be nice if they'd challenge his false claims. Bill Cooper once challenged Jordan a bit on one point on his radio show and Jordan had to admit that what he was saying was not fact but just a belief of the elite, which he usually doesn't have to do because he states things as fact and people I think tend to just listen without questioning. I used to also. There's a clip of this I believe in one of the videos I posted above but I don't recall which. I think it's the Jordan Maxwell - Water of Grace, Water of Life one.

That's the difference right there. You couldn't put one over on Bill Cooper. He would openly challenge people with differing viewpoints to call in his show and discuss. Of all the recorded episodes I heard, nobody ever got the better of him. He was very well read, balanced and accurate and he really knew his facts and details. There are some things in truth that are absolutely non-negotiable.

--sjkted

[sjkted]

[QUOTE=nostrovia;257879]Hi folks,

I know this will be hard for some people to stomach, and others will understand where I'm coming from. This year I learned that Jordan Maxwell is an Illuminati shill who's goal is like Michael Tsarion's and Zeitgiests, and many other "truth" movement people who are targeting people looking for the truth but then misdirecting them. Just about all of Jordan Maxwell's material and insights regarding religion is simply and demonstratively, and provably wrong. They come directly from the occultist Madam Blavatsky and IS the religion of the Illuminati elite which he, on the other hand, is also exposing. I'll say the reason why in a moment.

Hello Nostrovia,

I listened lectures by Jordan Maxwell,and I must admit, that my intuition was telling me that something is wrong with story he tries to picture to us.I never questioned his conclusion,because he was researching this subject for 40 and some years!He must be telling the true! I saw later that this fact(researching 40+years on subject),has nothing to do with true,at least with real true,maybe with illuminati true, yes.
Maybe William Cooper was honest true seeker and real hero of our times.
My point is that we must find the true for ourself,not to be disappointed on what we are crossing through finding it,and not to be afraid.
I still think that there is a lot of people doing the right thing for humanity from the heart.
Here is one link about William Cooper and Jordan Maxwell,you may find it interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD1Vf5hoRfQ

I believe William Cooper was an honest truth seeker. The key here is that he got Maxwell to basically take all of his information he was presenting as fact and say that it was what the mystery schools believe, rather than the truth. Since then, he continues to present his information as the truth. What more evidence could anyone possibly want? He's admitting it himself!

--sjkted

[sjkted]

.

[wynderer]

Hi Nostovia -- i just watched 'They Are Misleading You' -- very interesting re the introduction of the 'die & rise again' theme in 'mystery religions' after Jesus was here -- it seems a bit of reptilian damage control is going on here

i don't even like the term 'mystery religion' -- it smacks of reptilian elitism to my ears -- 'mysteries' are hidden the way the reptilians hide --

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[truth and integrity]

Hi nostrovia,
I have read with pleasure your post. When we dig deep enough we will find truth. My list of those who manipulate our reality is longer than that. So, you are a fun of Chris White and Bill Cooper. These are my favorite too.

Love
t&i

[tintagelcave]

Hi Nostrovia, I can imagine that you don't agree with Jordan Maxwell, that's a matter of opinion I think. The conclusion about the Project Camelot being not trustworthy is a whole other issue. Bill and Kerry have a mission statement on the PC site, wherein they mention not to publish the content as truth. They offer information, as in a library, from all kind of whistleblowers and it's up to you and me, if we go along with the stories told. Are you going to the staff of a library and blame them on having certain books in stock? I believe you have an expectation, towards Bill and Kerry, they cannot live up to, don't you think? Truth is in the eye of the beholder.......

[Seafury]

Great thread, I was dying for a thread that offered something of value.

I see a few replies in this thread tackling what I think is the real issue, which is that exposing the problems in our society are one thing, but no one ever offers any solutions.

I myself have found myself angry about the same thing. I can listen to hours of Jordan Maxwell, countless more hours of Alex Jones and others until I'm wound right up. I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!!! But now what?

Well, I don't think we should be quite so hard on ol' Maxie and Jonsie as this is the hardest question facing our species and to say they offer no solutions is like saying you're angry at science for not figuring out how to split the atom earlier than they did.

I can sit here and say:
Step 1 to Civil Revitalization and Liberty: Remove the Federal Reserve from power and restore the gold standard.

Does that help anything? Can you do that? Can I do that? Can I do anything to influence that aside from the butterfly effect of talking about it to my friends?

It's a tough game. Maxwell is by no means a perfect person, in fact I don't even like him much, same with Jones, but they expose the problem in ways you and I simply have not done to the masses and so they deserve credit. Now it's up to us to ponder the solution because quite simply, no one knows what it is.

I'd like to add one more thing: Almost as annoying as a lack of solutions from really great problem exposers like Jones, are the people who spout "It's up to US to change! We are the solution!" because that doesn't say anything either on any kind of practical level. I know I kind of said that myself, but I'm saying I DON'T have the solution either, and that I'm still looking.

[Seafury]

Great thread, I was dying for a thread that offered something of value.

I see a few replies in this thread tackling what I think is the real issue, which is that exposing the problems in our society are one thing, but no one ever offers any solutions.

I myself have found myself angry about the same thing. I can listen to hours of Jordan Maxwell, countless more hours of Alex Jones and others until I'm wound right up. I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!!! But now what?

Well, I don't think we should be quite so hard on ol' Maxie and Jonsie as this is the hardest question facing our species and to say they offer no solutions is like saying you're angry at science for not figuring out how to split the atom earlier than they did.

I can sit here and say:
Step 1 to Civil Revitalization and Liberty: Remove the Federal Reserve from power and restore the gold standard.

Does that help anything? Can you do that? Can I do that? Can I do anything to influence that aside from the butterfly effect of talking about it to my friends? I'm not even American for chrissakes.

It's a tough game. Maxwell is by no means a perfect person, in fact I don't even like him much, same with Jones, but they expose the problem in ways you and I simply have not done to the masses and so they deserve credit. Now it's up to us to ponder the solution because quite simply, no one knows what it is.

I'd like to add one more thing: Almost as annoying as a lack of solutions from really great problem exposers like Jones, are the people who spout "It's up to US to change! We are the solution!" because that doesn't say anything either on any kind of practical level. I know I kind of said that myself, but I'm saying I DON'T have the solution either, and that I'm still looking.

[TruthWillSetUFree]

Well you hit the ol nail on the head then. The ones who just spill doom and gloom without solutions would be the disinfo people.

Face it, these people are getting so popular if they wanted to raise a group and create noise they would. Never once have I heard any them begin a program for solutions not even one. They are all to be angry and aggressive AJ uses his bullhorn to yell at buildings this also keeps his crowd of people in fear of control.

I think it is more the way Cliff High had it. He called them "refusenicks" or those people who refused to go along with the program. At the time he was stating this regarding the vaccinations, but if all of us refused what 'they' are doing, it would be a massive change of consciousness


Anyway this is my take on it.

Peace to you
Truth

[Carol]

I've listened to Jordan Maxwell a number of times and have come to the conclusion that he always says the same stuff so why listen again. Next, after the fiasco with Greer's interview (and I had people who were at that conference fill me in on the behind the scenes action who are close personal friends of Greer), that was it for me watching any more interviews. I just refuse to support slander and character assignation.

Then I looked at the world news this morning and thought how incredible tragic. One gruesome story after another all over the planet. If one were to take all of that negative information in on a daily basis it would make one ill for life. This stuff is positively dreadful.

So I have come to the conclusion that I intend to focus on creating the type of world I want to live in. I'm only just one little candle here blowing in the wind. Just one person... but you know what? Some of the beauty I have gathered together has touched thousands of lives and lifted many, many spirits. For example, my Angel thread has had over 35,000 hits and constantly receives compliments from folks about how it makes them happy. This thread was created by just one little candle flame and then happily joined by many other candle flames... brightening this little cyber corner of the world.

For what it's worth I truly believe that it is our own personal responsibility to bring, create a bit of heaven here.. where we are on this planet, in our home, in our yard, in our cyber space each and every day by adding a bit of beauty, a bit of music, a bit our our inner glow to the things that we participate in and create. I'm done with the disclosure effort at this particular level and have moved on. Now I want to know about those human type alien entities and other-worlder's who are helping humankind. I want to focus on growing things in my garden and creating beautiful food for the eyes and stomach. I want to bring a bit of light and happiness into the lives that cross my path. I want to focus on the goodness which resides in the depth of our 'beingness' and encourage it's growth in all humans. I want to share how wonderful it is to experience "god" consciousness and transcend the limits of ego driven obsessiveness. Yes, my goal is to inspire each individual to reach for their own heaven within and allow it to take root in an ordinary life in an extraordinary way. And it is because of this I prefer to bring a gift of beauty as compared to oppressive gloom. What Jordan had to say was interesting.. yet, I refuse to allow this type of negativity to impair my own creative spirit.

So, it is with great sadness I have viewed these many tragedies of human spirit that are brought to our attention (and deservedly so for we should not be unaware and ignorant), and have chosen to refocus attention on that which makes my spirit sing. Good-bye Jordan. Hello light.

[Carol]

Perhaps the problem is too big for solutions. I've worked in the system and from my personal experience I seriously doubt solutions are not going to happen in ways people expect. The only way I see solutions to manifest is via a major change in human consciousness. Perhaps a galactic superwave would do just that. Who is to say how the golden age will truly manifest itself spiritually for humankind

[wynderer]

re solutions -- there IS a feeble start at a movement for a USA national strike day -- you could get behind that

& -- i know i sound like a broken record w/this -- tho i am not so big on the 'Oneness' thing [sounds a lot like the 'integration' that the ETs are talking about -- a Oneness soup of bred-down microchipped humans], i feel i have to remind people that you are privileged if you can choose to focus on the ordinary good things of life -- many human beings on the planet right now do not have that choice -- & it appears that pretty soon we here in the USA may not have that choice -- the FEMA camps will be a good place to test out our various spiritual paths

personally, i pray a lot, & not just for myself

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[MichalPtacnik]

Oneness means that we are one in substance with all things, which we are. Oneness is the truth, it has nothing in common with chips. Those who would want to simulate the oneness artificially will get nowhere because if you try to simulate godliness, you will end up creating a false, artificial god, because the real godliness or oneness is intristic therefore you only come to it by substraction of experience, not by addition.

That means, if the E.T.s are not stupid, they won't do it. Unless they want to conquer and control us, but if they really wanted that, there are much more efficient ways, and chances are, conquerors won't have "all the time in the world" to wait till some 2012. They'd just achieve space superiority if they wanted and tell each city to surrender or to die and then they'd chip and lobotomize and clone etc. the survivors.

I mean, our official technology is on the verge of being able to do that, not just the black projects, the negative E.T.s who are supposed to be 25 000 years ahead of us must be able to do it seven days in the week, practically.

[wynderer]

Michal, i know what y'all mean by 'Oneness' -- the idea seems to be a radically new & different one for some of you -- i got part of this concept 40 yrs ago when i recognized my 'Oneness' w/the Earth & the animals & stopped poisoning the one by my buying habits [no toxic chemicals in my home -- no microwaves -- no cellphone, more recently-- etc, etc], & w/the other by not eating them

i recognize my 'Oneness' w/other humans & have done what i could in my life to at least speak out against war [like my country's war on the Iraqui & many other people], against torture -- i could go on & on -- lately my 'Oneness' efforts have been directed to getting humans to recognize that the controllers of this planet have their own idea of the 'Oneness' & it's not kind to humans

how do you manifest your 'Oneness'?

sometimes it seems that the Oneness y'all write about is a return to a comforting womb, where you are free of the painful resposibilities of individualized consciousness

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[Seafury]

sometimes it seems that the Oneness y'all write about is a return to a comforting womb, where you are free of the painful resposibilities of individualized consciousness

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

Great point. If you are aware of oneness, then you should be aware of the fact that you chose to be in the state that you are in in 3d, experiencing all the pain and frustration that comes with it.

Truth is, this reality is stark. It's intense. You'll never get this experience in 5d, or 4d..you get it here now, and never again anywhere else. For that reason I enjoy it, I'll go back to oneness eventually, but right now I'm in 3d and that's where I want to be. It's challenging and fun. Adventure and experience.

For that reason I look for 3d solutions to 3d problems, not looking to how soon I'll merge with another reality. If I wanted that I'd just die.

[wynderer]

Hi Seafury -- my experiences of higher dimensions are that they are much more 'intense' than this extremely constricting 3D level -- also much more 'challenging & fun' --

good for you, that you like adventure & experience -- unless you are a hybrid or a clone or a sell-out human serving the nwo, my take is that you & the rest of the masses are soon going to be getting adventure & experience up the wahzoo -- starvation, Earth changes, plagues, FEMA camps [most of which are underground, imo -- easy access to food/energy supply for our reptilian/grey/mantis/etc nwo controllers] -- not my personal idea of fun adventures & experiences, but to each his/her own

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[wynderer]

Hi Seafury -- my experiences of higher dimensions are that they are much more 'intense' than this extremely constricting 3D level -- also much more 'challenging & fun' --

good for you, that you like adventure & experience -- unless you are a hybrid or a clone or a sell-out human serving the nwo, my take is that you & the rest of the masses are soon going to be getting adventure & experience up the wahzoo -- starvation, Earth changes, plagues, FEMA camps [most of which are underground, imo -- easy access to food/energy supply for our reptilian/grey/mantis/etc nwo controllers] -- not my personal idea of fun adventures & experiences, but to each his/her own

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[MichalPtacnik]

Michal, i know what y'all mean by 'Oneness' -- the idea seems to be a radically new & different one for some of you -- i got part of this concept 40 yrs ago when i recognized my 'Oneness' w/the Earth & the animals & stopped poisoning the one by my buying habits [no toxic chemicals in my home -- no microwaves -- no cellphone, more recently-- etc, etc], & w/the other by not eating them

i recognize my 'Oneness' w/other humans & have done what i could in my life to at least speak out against war [like my country's war on the Iraqui & many other people], against torture -- i could go on & on -- lately my 'Oneness' efforts have been directed to getting humans to recognize that the controllers of this planet have their own idea of the 'Oneness' & it's not kind to humans

how do you manifest your 'Oneness'?

sometimes it seems that the Oneness y'all write about is a return to a comforting womb, where you are free of the painful resposibilities of individualized consciousness

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

Very, very true. And you are correct in part about the returning to the womb. We all long for that, inside, and for a good reason: We are, as we are now, experiencing separation from the Oneness, unable to make a good decision safe by the works of chance; we simply can not know all the circulmstances, therefore we always do guesswork. From this point of view, wanting to get rid of the painful responsibilities of an individualized consciousness is a good thing, indeed, a natural tendency; because we were not meant to be completely individualized, because there has never been anything else than the Oneness and we just chose to willfully ignore it.

Now let me say this, according to my experience, if you return to the "pleroma," "relationship with God," or "oneness," you will lose some small portion of your individuality (the one that hurts the most because it is in denial), but will gain others you never knew were there, and you will gain a sense of purpose and, ideally, you will actually find yourself to be able to make good decisions, because you will be connected to All There Is and will KNOW what is according to the Divine Plan. That is a great reward, if you think about it, and it is well worth the sacrifice of your so called "personality," because it will reveal your true self you never knew was there and you will stop living in denial and illusion. It is also what most religions hint at with their teachings, and especially Christianity if you look at it correctly.

By the way if you say that "if you follow your heart you can't make a bad decision" or something to counter my first argument (that you are unable to make a good decision in the present state), it is obvious that you are able to do this because your heart-compass is still connected to the Oneness; what I propose is reconnecting the rest of your being and experiencing a life renewed in accordance with the rest of Creation and the Creator.

[Seafury]

Hi Seafury -- my experiences of higher dimensions are that they are much more 'intense' than this extremely constricting 3D level -- also much more 'challenging & fun' --

good for you, that you like adventure & experience -- unless you are a hybrid or a clone or a sell-out human serving the nwo, my take is that you & the rest of the masses are soon going to be getting adventure & experience up the wahzoo -- starvation, Earth changes, plagues, FEMA camps [most of which are underground, imo -- easy access to food/energy supply for our reptilian/grey/mantis/etc nwo controllers] -- not my personal idea of fun adventures & experiences, but to each his/her own

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

Sounds like it's not very fun being you.

Cheers.

[wynderer]

i did not come here to have 'fun'

Peace & Freedom, wynderer

[manticore]

I just have this to say about Jordan Maxwell. He has gone through a lot. After many (and I mean, many) requests to have him on my show, I finally did after one year of trying.

At the end of my show with him, I included a portion of audio that was from an off-line conversation he and I had. I included it so that people who don't know of his situation were exposed to a different perspective.

Even a friend contacted me to say someone wrote to him/her saying I had "Jordanus Maximus" (same words used as the OP). The person also said "I changed direction" and that "I was now doing shows on aliens (I always have) and the metaphysical (always have) and that I've turned anti-religion by having Jordan on. I respect everyone's beliefs and cover all areas.

Just because we (Project Camelot included) interview people does not mean we agree with their positions. We simply feel what they have to say is interesting enough and deem it important that people listen. That is all.

I remember getting flooded by e-mail from people who said my shows were turning too religious. That's when I had Ralph Epperson and Dr. Leonard Horowitz on. Go figure.

If Jordan was working for the Illuminati, ask yourself why he lives in a very small one-bedroom apartment? You can save the same about Michael Tsarion (he will be Veritas next week). I even said "What do you say to the people who say you're too negative?" If you listen, you'll hear his honest response.

In any event. I know many people have a problem listening to Jordan, but if you were more perceptive than many and thought you knew more about what is really going on, I tend to believe you would become very frustrated too.

Just my two cents on this.

Mel

P.S. If we only interviewed people who had the same opinions and viewpoints, could we really get to the truth? No. Besides, how boring that would be.

[tintagelcave]

Quote from Manticore: P.S. If we only interviewed people who had the same opinions and viewpoints, could we really get to the truth? No. Besides, how boring that would be. (end of quote)
__________________
Thanks, Manticore! I think that's exactly to the point and it resonates with my reply on this thread on Jordan Maxwell's integrity. Let's not shoot the messengers!

[trainedobserver]

I just have this to say about Jordan Maxwell. He has gone through a lot.

You are correct in your statements about Maxwell being pretty much destitute and not profiting greatly from his "work." Sometimes people aren't the agents of anything but their own imaginations.

[manticore]

Let's not forget that Jordan says this too: "People mostly support what they want to hear...not necessarily the truth, and the truth is not for everybody by any means."

Mel

[orthodoxymoron]

I don't necessarily agree with Jordan Maxwell...but I think that the man has done his homework and paid his dues...and agonized over how much trouble the human race is really in...for a long, long time. Listening to Jordan won't make you happy...but if you want the truth...you just might learn something of great value. Go Jordan! :thumb_yello:

[Carol]

This is where I have a different opinion. Just because Jordan Maxwell believes something to be true doesn't make it true. He has done a lot of research up to a point. And what he believes is limited by the research he has done. And then there are numerous other layers that take one in another direction then the one Jordan is pointing too.

I've found this to be true for a number of whistle blowers. They only have one piece to the puzzle, one viewpoint or perspective based on the current information they've accumulated.. yet again that perspective is limited in scope, range and comprehension when examining the bigger picture.

There is a battle for souls. Folks make choices. There are consequences for each choice made.. a butterfly effect is put into motion where someone they may not know is negatively affected by a thoughtless, self-centered choice. There are multiple influences (good and bad) affecting ones individual choice. The goal is to grow beyond duality, beyond positive and negative polarity and to integrate all aspects of self including ego, the shadow, the spiritual and to transcend limited consciousness into cosmic consciousness.

In some sense one may consider Jordan Maxwell a scholar and he may well be one. Yet, from another perspective is he living a life where spirit is directing him? Indeed his personal situation is sad. And I wonder what tasks he has set out for himself at a spiritual level before this incarnation and this life being lived. However, what I see is a man who has imprisoned himself within the walls of his own mental constructs. Why?

From a purely personal perspective I've been in some pretty grim situations both personally and professionally. The goal was not to get lost but instead to find a way through it and out to the other side. Irrespective of the many, many challenges each may face it is with our heart, our mind and our spirit that we learn to fly. The key? Don't give up and believe ~ accept there are multiple alternatives to ones life and it takes personal responsibility to ensure that one moves forward and not get stuck.

My sense with Jordan from listening and watching him is that underneath it all is that perhaps he has a defeatist attitude. Meaning he feels defeated before he has even gotten out of the gate. And it is that particular quality which leaves a lingering impression of great sadness that he is stuck within the walls of his own mental constructs. Yes, maybe what he shares is true.. maybe it is false and he just is on the wrong track. I'm not here to verify it one way or another. I'm just adding that he lost me a long time ago because of this quality that appears to be dragging him down.

Here is an example of another type of man. He works with patients who are dying. His whole focus is on making that person's life the best it can be given the situation. These are real life issues with real life families. He is not dragged down where he feels powerless to do anything. Instead, he brings comfort to others and is greatly loved by the families he works with. His attitude is uplifting and brightens people who are really sick day. He gives them confidence and empowers them to take charge of what they can and is encouraging. This person only once realized there was something that he couldn't do and that had nothing to do with him personally, it just had to do with running out of time. I raise this story to illustrate how an attitude can make or break a man. One man can see the worst that life has to dish up and yet have a very happy life while another man just reads about the worse life has to offer and gets emotionally stuck and be depressed. It's a choice. We all get to choose who we are going to be every day, every moment.

[orthodoxymoron]

Jordan identifies the problems...and focuses on them. He provides a valuable service...but one must look elsewhere for inspiration and solutions. If a doctor does not properly identify the problems...he or she cannot properly formulate solutions. Glossing over the problems with a big smile (and a big bill) doesn't solve anything...really.

I continue to be puzzled by the early termination (pretty much interrupted mid-sentence) of Jordan Maxwell's lecture at Awake and Aware...while he was waxing eloquent regarding the dark-side of the Vatican...particularly regarding the Vatican being the biggest enemy of the United States. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIDU9soL2gc&feature=related David Wilcock followed this apparent plug-pulling...and was given much more time than Jordan. David was also present during the Camelot interview of Jordan Maxwell. Is this normal operating procedure? Did I get my facts straight here? I'm relying on my very faulty memory.

I'm not making a blanket endorsement of Jordan Maxwell...but he has validated a lot of things which I was already aware of...and he has taught me a lot of new things. One more thing. I'm tending to think that the Vatican, the City of London, Washington D.C., Jerusalem (and probably others) take orders from a key Deep Underground Base (possibly in the United States). In other words...there has been a continuity of power going back into ancient Egypt, Babylon, Atlantis, etc...if the theory is at all correct...and I don't know that it is. This power might be the biblical Babylon. 'Babyon is fallen, is fallen...because SHE made the nations drink the wine of the wrath of HER fornication." Could this be supportive of a Lucifer/Eve/Hathor/Mary hypothesis of centralized power on Earth...going back thousands or even millions of years? Bill Cooper said that it wasn't the Jews or the Vatican...but he pointed toward secret societies and mystery schools...and to the 'Brotherhood of the Snake'. Perhaps this was the 'alien presence' which was so elusive to Bill. Once more...I have zero animosity toward anyone or any organization. I think I could have a cordial conversation with any of them...including the Devil Himself or Herself. Siriusly.

With all of my threads and posts about the Vatican...it wouldn't surprise me if get involved in this sort of a situation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxvGy1Uy70 Actually...I feel sort of a warm connection with the Jesuits...because I think they probably understand me better than anyone else. But they'd still probably chase me...

[Carmen]

An excellent post Carol. I agree with you.

Love

Carmen