Dear Bill: what value do you see in scientology?

[Zelphael]

Just to be clear: this is not a post attacking scientology. In fact, I'm quite curious to know more about it.

I want to ask Bill personally how scientology has helped you? Have you found Hubbard's writings to be of value?

I'm pretty well versed on the supposed evils of the organisation itself, but I watched a DVD I got which seemed to be quite interesting and focused a lot on the Human Rights campaigning that scientologists do.

I know you are a part of the Free Zone, Bill - just wondering on your comments on scientology, and how that plays in to your work with PCamelot.

---

To everyone else: what do you think of scientology and/or what are your experiences with it?

[Chris Parson]

my understanding of scientology is that it is black magic lifted from crowley via jack parsons

[bluestix]

Scientology is an awesome vehicle for maintaining and building wealth as long as you are willing to play along with their little brainwashing scams and help them dupe idiots into giving them money.

It's a simple social control formula used by countless world religions to take money from the weak minded.


Take Tom Cruise for example:

He is a business partner of the 'Church'.

He doesn't believe a word of the lies spouted by the cult.

It is pretty simple math when you work it out.

He is an actor, so he goes on TV and 'acts' like he is a dupe of their con.

This convinces tons of suckers who idolize him into thinking they should give their money to the cult.

If he can get 1M new members to join the cult at an average entrance fee of >$5000 then he just made ~$5B for the cult of which he probably takes 20-30%.

20% of $5B is $1B.

That is more then ever made from movies or anything else and best of all its tax free.




Don't think for a second that Scientology was ever about anything other then taking money from idiots.

[Ashatav]

I know I'm not Bill but... the man who invented cientology was the man who used to be an alister crowley friend?

Look at Bill Schnoebelen's illuminatti from within. It's really a good time investment.

Cheers!

:roll1: ( rolling with happiness )

[Myplanet2]

Scientology is a complicated subject. It's had a very turbulent history, and is loaded with controversies, real and created.

There is something to it, in it's basic form, and a lot of procedures have been developed from those basics, which cover some areas that many other practices and philosophies don't.

I'm not sure that someone not already familiar and studied in the subject could find their way through the maze very easily.

The church of Scientology is something I believe to have been subverted in much the way the US gov't has, by possibly the same sources, which goes a long way towards explaining many of the controversies. Scientology showed some promise in the area of spiritual awareness and action, which the PTB felt threatened by, which is probably why it had to be infiltrated and perverted towards their agenda.

It now has that distinctive PTB taint, that is easily recognizable. Too bad.

MP2

[Kahunamahalo]

Scientology=scam

[Chris Parson]

penthouse interview with hubbard's son
http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien240.html

[Antaletriangle]

When i was at university my girlfriend at that time and myself were 'collered' by them in the street-we were vulnerable and hadn't a clue about their religion.They attracted my girlfriend upstairs to do an astrology reading.I was immediately on guard.they separated us into separate rooms to do a mutiple choice test-i fired through this and the asked me if i was interested in their religion etc I just wanted out;i was kept in a room on my own and i found myself pacing up and down andi was very concerned about my girlfriend and what they were saying to her.I kept asking where she was and they said she'll be with you shortly,after 20 mins or so i went looking for her;it turns out that she was one signature away from signing some contract to work for them-i grabbed her by the hand and we fled down the stairs-i remember saying to her at the time that"These are the moonies"lol-it was the only organisation i could bring to mind at the time.I spoke to some police officers who were outside i think they must have been placed there to stop any potential violence concerning their 'drafting application'!Anyway,i pointed out to them what they were about and i was raging; the police agreed with me but they said these people were working within the realms of the law!?I suppose they were because we gave permission for this astrological reading..it was nothing to do with astrology;initially it was then they moved swiftly from that to moralistic/immoral values and elements of subversion.I found it profoundly upsetting-the methods they used-it felt so hostile and macabre.I am just posting this as it's a full on experience i would not wish on anyone!This is no rumour from me it's first hand-believe what you will but i don't advocate this system of mind control one bit.Thanks for listening.

[Myplanet2]

Scientology=scam

Would that be Scientology the church? Scientology the philosophy? Scientology the practice? That is a scam? all three or any two, and which two, or only one, and if so, which one?

I have first hand knowledge that part's of Scientology are not a scam.

[Kahunamahalo]

All of it. It's all crap. Ruined more lives than I can count.

[Myplanet2]

All of it. It's all crap. Ruined more lives than I can count.

That bad, eh? Guess it should be hated then.

[bluestix]

I have first hand knowledge that part's of Scientology are not a scam.


Hahahaha

Which parts?



http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/xenu-pam.jpg

[Kahunamahalo]

That bad, eh? Guess it should be hated then.

Nope, just not believed

[DoctorTony]

Hey guys

Just figured I'd chime in on this $cientology topic. I for one am neutral when it comes to beliefs and religions. I am more of an astrology guy (even more so now with the advent of my discovery of the Mayan calendar as described by Ian Lungold).
As for L Ron Hubbard, well, I see nothing wrong in the 8 dynamics, clearing painful traumatic memories that auditing has done for some people, the axioms, attempting to disseminate the material for others, getting people off of drugs, etc. There is actually a lecture by Hubbard on thought, emotion, and effort - sound familiar? It's mentioned in the Secret, Think & Grow Rich and other similar works. Be, Do, Have - also mentioned. Hubbard even talked about a second coming as a mass landing of UFOs. Aren't we dealing with this topic now? L Ron Hubbard had all of this put together in the late 40's, early 50's.
There's a lot more to scientology than tom cruise jumping on couches and what not. Too much to get into here.
I can talk about this because I have been a member of several different religions, scientology being one of them.
Yes, it has been centered around deaths, but name me one religion that hasn't. TOLERANCE is a big key in stopping that! Even Anton LaVey's satanism has something to offer. I have personally found something postitive in EVERY religion from Atheism to Zoroastranism.
They ALL offer something for someone somewhere. They are ALL cults and man-made anyway. Read William Bramley's "The Gods of Eden."
All of this negative concentration needs to go.

If you want to talk negatives:
1) Scientology concentrates a lot of energy towards ANTI-psychiatry. This is why psychiatry still exists. ENERGY should be focused on the antithesis of a problem (if you believe psychiatry is a problem). They should focus on attacking the FDA and raising their standards.
2) Why should anyone have to pay for anything? If they were so concerned about 'clearing' the planet - more courses, books, lectures, etc would be free of charge.
3) The scientology concept of anti-homosexual is not very cohesive to ALL of mankind considering some people are homosexual. The reason they believe that no one should be homosexual is the 2nd dynamic of scientology which refers to mankind's drive towards survival through sex. The 2nd dynamic would be terminated then and there because life cannot be created by two homosexual people. But (I believe) that homosexuality is based on astrological positioning of jupiter and venus (I've read). I don't think anyone knows how to control the stars - yet :mfr_lol: Let's ask Michael St. Clair!

There is so much more I could say, but I'll leave the floor open for someone else's opinion.

Thank you for reading.
Peace love & golden ages.

[Myplanet2]

Nope, just not believed

Nothing should be believed without personal discernment.

[Kahunamahalo]

:lol3:

[Myplanet2]

Hey guys

Just figured I'd chime in on this $cientology topic. I for one am neutral when it comes to beliefs and religions. I am more of an astrology guy (even more so now with the advent of my discovery of the Mayan calendar as described by Ian Lungold).
As for L Ron Hubbard, well, I see nothing wrong in the 8 dynamics, clearing painful traumatic memories that auditing has done for some people, the axioms, attempting to disseminate the material for others, getting people off of drugs, etc. There is actually a lecture by Hubbard on thought, emotion, and effort - sound familiar? It's mentioned in the Secret, Think & Grow Rich and other similar works. Be, Do, Have - also mentioned. Hubbard even talked about a second coming as a mass landing of UFOs. Aren't we dealing with this topic now? L Ron Hubbard had all of this put together in the late 40's, early 50's.
There's a lot more to scientology than tom cruise jumping on couches and what not. Too much to get into here.
I can talk about this because I have been a member of several different religions, scientology being one of them.
Yes, it has been centered around deaths, but name me one religion that hasn't. TOLERANCE is a big key in stopping that! Even Anton LaVey's satanism has something to offer. I have personally found something postitive in EVERY religion from Atheism to Zoroastranism.
They ALL offer something for someone somewhere. They are ALL cults and man-made anyway. Read William Bramley's "The Gods of Eden."
All of this negative concentration needs to go.

If you want to talk negatives:
1) Scientology concentrates a lot of energy towards ANTI-psychiatry. This is why psychiatry still exists. ENERGY should be focused on the antithesis of a problem (if you believe psychiatry is a problem). They should focus on attacking the FDA and raising their standards.
2) Why should anyone have to pay for anything? If they were so concerned about 'clearing' the planet - more courses, books, lectures, etc would be free of charge.
3) The scientology concept of anti-homosexual is not very cohesive to ALL of mankind considering some people are homosexual. The reason they believe that no one should be homosexual is the 2nd dynamic of scientology which refers to mankind's drive towards survival through sex. The 2nd dynamic would be terminated then and there because life cannot be created by two homosexual people. But (I believe) that homosexuality is based on astrological positioning of jupiter and venus (I've read). I don't think anyone knows how to control the stars - yet :mfr_lol: Let's ask Michael St. Clair!

There is so much more I could say, but I'll leave the floor open for someone else's opinion.

Thank you for reading.
Peace love & golden ages.

I agree, DoctorTony. There's some value in Scientology. It's been often misused, and has a bad reputation. And some parts are destructive by their nature. But some parts can do a lot of good, if used with that intention.

It's become hard for those not familiar with the subject to learn about what's good in Scientology, because of all the noise generated by that hate group Anonymous, and their declared war against the church. There's nothing they wouldn't distort for the worse.

I was in Scientology for many years. It's possible to apply the subject with good intentions, and have the result be betterment.

The official church itself is pretty much a lost cause, IMO.

[DoctorTony]

I agree, DoctorTony. There's some value in Scientology. It's been often misused, and has a bad reputation. And some parts are destructive by their nature. But some parts can do a lot of good, if used with that intention.

It's become hard for those not familiar with the subject to learn about what's good in Scientology, because of all the noise generated by that hate group Anonymous, and their declared war against the church. There's nothing they wouldn't distort for the worse.

I was in Scientology for many years. It's possible to apply the subject with good intentions, and have the result be betterment.

The official church itself is pretty much a lost cause, IMO.


YES Myplanet!
Unfortunately, the church did themselves in because when they get these people 'off the street' who are not familiar with anything in the writings, they don't make the effort to get them up to snuff. If they 'cleared' those who were interested in becoming a staff member, they would have sooooo many like-minded interested people that I might even consider going back.
They are so concerned with policy and hatting that they forget that there are people out there that could really truly use it. They dropped the ball big time.
:thumbdown:

[PodWORLD]

I started reading Mission Earth whilst in my teens. I didn't know anything about L Ron Hubbard. The subject matter was spot on as was Capra's 'Pottersville' in 'It's A Wonderful Life'. The thing about Cults is that they're only successful when they echo with a ring of truth.

[atama]

not criticizing scientologists but i see no value in it at all. it's another church. church = bad.

[Lythocrist]

Look up how Scientology was created...

Hubbard bet one of his co-workers/fellow intellectual, that he could have over a certain number of 'worshipers', in a certain amount of time, for a religion he made up.

Made made = Fallible

Something such as religion won't work for everyone, think how complex your own mind is...Well think about 6.7 billion minds?

Some man made things work (If only temporary.) Because they HAVE to work, the world would fall apart kinda/sorta if they didn't 'government' Because people realize it is often safe and sufficient. But...Something as free minded as religion... You can make laws, you can have police enforce them. But I've yet to come across those who police the minds of everyone on the planet....good luck. We'll always be free in the vastness of eternal mind.

[Colin]

This is more of an Off-Topic issue rather than Alternatinve Science , so I'll move it there :original:

...ad it's nice to see a civilsed debate, well done people!:thumb_yello:

[Bill Ryan]

Hi, Everyone:

I've only just noticed this thread (believe it or not)...

Happy to respond in bulletpoints. (Otherwise, it'd take a book!)

* Anything you read about the Church of Scientology that criticizes it it likely to be true.

* I've never been in the Church or Scientology, am not connected with it, and do not know any members.

* I'm on the Church of Scientology's Enemies List (http://projectcamelot.org/the_scientology_enemies_list.rtf).

* I'm an active 'Free Zone' scientologist and have got a vast amount of personal benefit and gain from the subject.

* I never knew L. Ron Hubbard. I did know Bill Robertson personally, who founded the 'Free Zone' scientology organization known as 'Ron's Org' in 1984, having left the Church of Scientology after it was taken over.

* There's no connection with Projects Camelot or Avalon. Kerry has no connection with the subject and has her own sources of spiritual and personal growth which I fully respect (as I respect those of everyone).

* Of the members posting on this thread (while all contributions, intelligently expressed, are welcome), I'd recommend the posts of Myplanet2 as being reliable and accurate. He knows what he's talking about, and his views come from his personal experience.

* Personal experience is always a better source of information from reading stuff on the net! :original:

Happy also to respond privately to anyone (although I'm days behind on my e-mails and PMs, for which I apologisze - but I hope you can all understand).

Very best to all, Bill

[Zynox]

One word, then a comment: COINTELPRO


Why does anything 'work' or resonate?



Someone creates (imaginates) or receives inspiration (open channel).



The formation of a tool and resource germinates.



The tool is nurtured and gains momentum, and followers.


Societal and cultural memes are projected into the energy space.



Local, and potentially inter-dimensional, Oligarchs infiltrate and gain enough foothold to instill toxins.



Rinse and repeat the formula for domination, in technology, economy, religion, spirituality, humanity, politics, life, and, death ....


Personal 'wisdom', find the 90-99.9% in all with discernment, then take out the garbage ... a long strange trip ...

Namaste!

[Sarahmay]

The best thing about the Church of Scientology, in my opinion, is that it is NOT Christianity.

The worst thing is that it is still a CHURCH.

Church=Control

[HallieBallie]

Every church has it's dogma.

I don't like dogma's

[371]

My impression of Scientology is that it can be very beneficial to an individual... provided you follow their program and don't make waves. If you go against them you are "fair game", and they can make your life miserable if they so choose. After all, they employ what is basically mind control and programming, but of the positive variety.

I know someone who spent 10 years as a hardcore drug addict, and after countless rehabs and subsequent relapses a friend (who is a Scientologist) sent her to rehab at a Scientologist-run rehab facility (and paid for her treatment, I might add). This girl has been clean since and almost totally has her life back together and swears she owes it all to the 'programming'. She is, btw- not a Scientologist. She says at the rehab program the people weren't pushing the 'religion' on her, but were employing the methods used in Scientology to treat her uncontrollable addictions. The friend who paid (or somehow arranged) for her stay in this facility is the type you would never know is a Scientologist. In fact he won't even talk about it casually, only in a very serious time and setting, which is totally out of character for this guy who is basically the fun-loving, extremely manic, gregarious type.

Based on this, I think that a lot can be gained from Scientology. I just won't get into it because it seems like once you're IN, they own you. And sorry is the person who crosses them.

[371]

Oh and it's also my understanding that there is a BIG difference between being a SCIENTOLOGIST and being a member of the CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY.

It's the 'church' that worries me especially. I think the philosophy is very interesting and possibly worth some consideration.

[THE eXchanger]

xxx

[371]

"Supreme Rulah!!" "Goof the Floof"... Apparently ancient 'spaceplaces' looked just like DC-8s, except without the propellers. Hmmm.


you'll see....

L. Ron Hubbard explains the history of xenu in 8 minutes
http://gawker.com/5037013/the-history-of-xenu-as-explained-by-l-ron-hubbard-himself-in-8-minutes

[Bill Ryan]

[eXchanger asked: so, what exactly is a free org scientologist ???

A Free Zone scientologist, that is. :original:

The Church of Scientology [CoS] was taken over in (approx) 1978-81. At that time there was a dramatic and almost violent change in direction and policy. Thousands of good people were expelled and thousands more quit.

Many of those good people then regrouped to form their own "Free" organizations - i.e. uncontrolled by the CoS. Many of them stayed very low key for years, unknown to the general public.

The CoS has its own intelligence operation, and its own agents. They inflitrate groups and perform sting operations on people. (Werner Erhard, the founder of est, was set up and taken out by the CoS.) They are capable and very dangerous - though their power has been waning considerably in recent years.

There were two leaders of the 'Free Zone' in the early 1980s: David Mayo and Bill Robertson. David Mayo was (essentially, and as I understand it) bought out by the CoS and was silenced. Bill Robertson, whom I knew in the late 80s before he died in 1991, was instrumental in founding 'Ron's Org' in 1984 - now the leading Free Zone organisation, primarily active in Germany, Switzerland, the US and Russia.

This is the sketchiest of summaries and (as I said in my first post) one could write a book, or several. None of this is simple or easily understood.

What I do know is that able, well-trained Free Zone scientologists are regarded as very dangerous to the NWO and its agenda. (Others are too, of course.) Many are very active in various fields, but most people would never know. They, like many others, are spiritual warriors.

But this is of course NOT exclusive to scientologists. There are thousands of other warriors out there, from dozens of different disciplines that encourage spiritual and mental development and improvement, and responsible and proactive interface with the world and its problems.

A personal note: the Free Zone scientologists I know personally are some of the most ethical and capable people I have ever met. Many of them have significant psychic abilities. Many of you will know that Co-ordinate Remote Viewing was pioneered by Ingo Swann, who was a scientologist - as were Pat Price, Hal Puthoff, Russell Targ, and many others involved in the SRI remote viewing program. (I know Hal Puthoff and have been privileged to talk with him about this.)

I claim nothing unusual about Scientology apart from its potential effectiveness. L. Ron Hubbard himself wrote that it was "a workable technology" (i.e. a means of spiritual and personal development which works - and it does, with extraordinary results, when properly applied.) Hubbard also said, very specifically, that it was not the only one.

Very best to all, Bill

[Antaletriangle]

Would that be Scientology the church? Scientology the philosophy? Scientology the practice? That is a scam? all three or any two, and which two, or only one, and if so, which one?

I have first hand knowledge that part's of Scientology are not a scam.

That'd be the church of scientology i was harangued by-trying to sell Lt.Ron Hubbard books as Billy boroughs referred to him: "Old mother Hubbard".

[Henry Deacon]

i have learned many valuable things from investigating many groups, philosophies, religions, etc..... taking the good bits and leaving behind the bitter bits.

There are almost always good bits to take away with you.. as tools for living in this strange world.

"trust but verify'

:-)



i respect other's harmless beliefs and try not to impose any harmful beliefs on others