Gold & Silver Q & A

[Zynox]

Many people are interested in asking questions and receiving concise and detailed answers on gold, silver and precious metals. Michael's ECONOMIC ADVISORIES post has become over run with these legitimate and genuine attempts to gain answers, but it detracts from the intended content of Michael's thread.

Please feel free to ask any question and I will do my best to answer it directly or lead folks to readily available sources for further research.

Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

I believe as stated in many other posts that gold, silver and many other precious metals will serve as an important tool to transition from this day to tomorrow, from the current chaotic environment to a more harmonious future for all.

Welcome. I will gladly field questions at any level of understanding and respectfully request that all posters to this thread respond in compassion, everyone comes here with different levels of understanding and perceptions.

I do not speak for Michael, we speak in agreement.


Namaste!

Got Gold?

[GodLover]

I asked Michael this question, but I'll repost it here:

If the fed makes it illegal to hold physical gold, would they simply snatch it away from people or would they pay for it to the individuals in return?

Also, how would they how much gold someone holds?

[currybai]

As posted in an earlier thread, I had asked:

If the spot price is around 12 dollars, why are american eagle silver coins selling for $30? Should I buy silver/gold online or from local dealers?

Thank You

[Zynox]

Question most often asked - How do I buy it?

I may only inform based upon my observations in US, Canada, Mexico, Costa Rica and Peru. I do not know all related laws and regulations of any of these countries, even the US.

My highest recommendation is that people become involved and engaged locally. All major and moderate population zones have both gold / coin / jewelry merchants and local coin clubs and shows.

Going to these sources provides human contact and establishes new network connections while supporting a local economy.


Other Sources:

Reference local phone book or internet search for Coin Shows, Coin Clubs, Gold Dealers, Jewelry Stores. For those that are not aware of the exact match feature in Google, try a search using the specific phrases required separated in quote marks to return more specific searches. An example like "Gold Show" "Nebraska" should limit the results to weed through.

Direct links to US coin show schedules include:

www.coinshows.com
www.coinresource.com/coinshows/index.asp


Online Dealers:

Be cautious and research each online retailer. There is very little control over how long a website retailer will require to ship the purchase after your funds are received. When dealing with these retailers I recommend a physical phone call be placed and specifically attempt to receive a delivery commitment. There are no guarantees, especially as inventories are depleted from high demand.

I will NOT provide specific recommendations to any websites. I will state I have successfully, and satisfactorily purchased metals online, but under different circumstances in the past.

Those with experience with eBay may find it the most competitive pricing available, second only to finding a good local metals dealer.

Many countries, including the United States, Canada, Australia and others have Mint websites where gold, silver and sometimes platinum and palladium may be purchased directly. Use web search engines to locate these. Recently, the US Mint has suspended sale of silver and stated the cause as absence of sufficient coin "blanks" used to fabricate the final coins.

Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[Rocky_Shorz]

Yesterday I took advice of a few on this forum, went down to a local coin shop and bought a few thousand $s worth of silver coins, poor condition so bought them at metal value... $10.42 an ounce.

it's up over $12. now in after market trading...

Does anyone know how long this rise will last?

[Rocky_Shorz]

You haven't seen ANYTHING YET !!!!
The problem will be " where to get PHYSICAL BULLION "
Demand is skyrocketing and the supplies are very very limited right now.

It jumped 15.5 % in one day...

[TAXMASTER]

gold & silver are typically cyclical in nature. the price bottoms out in the summer and posts its lowest levels in the year in late august/early september. now is the best time to buy. it should be strong for the next 8-9 months, maybe more. you got to realize that it will jump up then pull back some before it jumps again. most people do not understand the markets and sell off when the price goes down and then the price jumps up again. i trade in gold and silver futures.

[Zynox]

Confiscation Questions

The exact histories and details of confiscation in Germany and the United States are available online.

http://mises.org/story/3056 ((The Great Gold Robbery of 1933 - US))

"It's been 75 years since the federal government, on the spurious grounds of fighting the Great Depression, ordered the confiscation of all monetary gold from Americans, permitting trivial amounts for ornamental or industrial use."

"A key piece of legislation in this story is the Emergency Banking Act of 1933, which Congress passed on March 9 without having read it and after only the most trivial debate. House Minority Leader Bertrand H. Snell (R-NY) generously conceded that it was "entirely out of the ordinary" to pass legislation that "is not even in print at the time it is offered." Sound like the UnPatriot Act?

I am not able to predict what might transpire in this meltdown, and we are in a fiscal meltdown, globally. Stories I have read about the past 1933 US confiscation was that it was much like with taxes, the program was intended to achieve voluntary compliance through law, threat and fear. I suspect many chose to decline to comply. Each holder of sovereign wealth would need to make their own sovereign decision should they be 'requested' to turn in their metals. Not everyone pays taxes in the US now, especially major corporations, or so I have read recently.

In 1933, the government traded paper dollars at the rate of approximately $21 per gold ounce and then rewrote the government fixed price shorty after to $35 per gold ounce. Sound like a wealth transfer?

"The day after the passage of the Act, President Roosevelt fixed the weight of the Dollar at 15.715 grains of Gold "nine-tenths fine". The Dollar was thereby devalued from $20.67 to one troy ounce of Gold to $35.00 to one troy ounce of Gold - or by 69.3 percent." from:

http://www.the-privateer.com/gold2.html

Namaste!

"Gold can be used in a way that restrains the growth of tyranny, and which thus dramatically improves human well-being."

Glen Allport, from: The Meaning and Value of Gold (( http://www.strike-the-root.com/82/allport/allport2.html ))

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[Rocky_Shorz]

TaxMaster,

How easy is it to buy large quantities of real silver, not paper?

Did you have an Epic Day today in Gold sales?

.

[abe22]

Gold, silver, dollars, yen, oil, land, water!!

It really shouldn't matter, what makes having more of one commodity than another make you more important!!

money is a big problem, in my eyes the biggest problem in todays society. We shouldnt go down the path of who has what

we should all be in htis together and dont feed into greed

[Rocky_Shorz]

FDIC passed the point today...

Those of us looking at Silver understand we can't walk around with buckets of oil to trade for food...

[Zynox]

Should I Trust Banks or Buy Gold Questions
(Originally posted elsewhere as: Practical Economic and Banking Considerations)

General philosophy for this post:

If you disagree with the agenda and intent of financial institutions, the source of funding for corporations, governments and associated military enforcers, then you have your individual power to limit your participation and culpability. Currently, the system is structured that an employer issues the individual credits, which generally get transfered to a fiscal institution. The fiscal institution is then authorized to loan or extend these credits to borrowers at a leveraged amount of approximately 900% or 9 to 1. The borrow repays the loan, which was vaporware credits to begin with, and for awhile, all seems well in delusion land. Eventually, every faux / fiat / paper currency known in avaialble history has failed, and we are front row center to further failures - NOW.

There are general rules that are followed within the structured game, which I believe, are mostly in place to keep lower echelon participants in the game from behaving anarchically, like their masters do. In other words, the game has rules to keep the enforcers of the game in line, as it wouldn't be profitable to the controllers to have their enforces get any ideas about climbing to the top of the pyramid. The rules get rewritten or suspended dynamically, as found convenient - this is happening right now, and since August 2007, related to the meltdown (whether the meltdown is being orchestrated or they have lost control, I am open on this point).

Practical Points for Sovereign Individuals


Retain balances in checking accounts only, with enough to fund immediate payment of bills. This would be from 2 to 6 weeks worth of expenses, subject to the desire of the individual. By using only a checking account, the fiscal institution is usually unable to leverage the 900% rule, as they are generally defined as demand accounts. This is why fiscal institutions lead people towards savings accounts and CD accounts.



Convert all remaining funds / wealth into whatever mechanism or vehicle you believe will be of worth in the future. This might be gold, silver, cash, alcohol, cigarettes, chocolate, ammunition, land, food, materials, tools, art, etc. I am not supporting any of these particular items beyond gold, silver and a limited amount of physical cash currency. I do not support armed conflict in any fashion but respect every individual's sovereign right to choose any path.



Where possible, based on employment, savings and opportunity, retain physical possession of enough resource (gold / silver / cash or the other items) to ensure flexibility and mobility. In times of change, appreciable peace of mind may be found in having options, such as paying a neighbor to drive you out of a major city (insane asylum) or to exchange some of your alcohol for some of their food. No one will be much interested in taking a check or credit card when systems seize up.



Finally, it seems that few understand that nearly any stock, bond, treasury, 401k, title to a home, title to property or other paper based certificate of ownership has NO genuine assured value, AT ALL. I believe the 401k programs were promoted to absorb the 'excess' worker's and middle level investor's wealth and provide the mentioned leveraging by fiscal institutions. It wasn't in the controller's interests to allow any savvy investors to physically extract any of the gains realized from jackpot plays in tech stock or real estate bubbles. Thus, due to the tax penalties for removing money (credits) from the accounts, few folks extracted any wealth (but many 'borrowed' against it). Few also seem to be aware that (this is FACT) banks have been opening folks safe deposit boxes, most 401k plans have limitations on withdraw now (some require three years for 100% extraction) and the delay to remove funds from 401k plans are frequently 4, 6, 8 or more weeks.


Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[GregorArturo]

My parents have a half mil in the stock and bond market right now. They're pretty confident it's safe and secure. I've been trying to convince to at least invest in $10k worth of gold and silver and store it at our house. How should I go about actually convincing them in my rational? Any valuable resources that my do the trick? I've basically been lecturing them, printing out news articles, and reminding them daily about the economy and what exactly happened today; like how the DOW has crashed over a 1000 points this week, and financial companies are doing bad, and gold/silver/mining companies are doing good, along with gold is going up.

[Zynox]

Gold, silver, dollars, yen, oil, land, water!!

It really shouldn't matter, what makes having more of one commodity than another make you more important!!

money is a big problem, in my eyes the biggest problem in todays society. We shouldnt go down the path of who has what

we should all be in htis together and dont feed into greed

Abe22,

My preference would be to coexist and co-create among folks that had prudently, and responsibly, taken care of their economic considerations. This way, instead of long sour faces of folks that had just experienced their life savings being transfered to a fiscal beast feeding the greed, folks could move forward to, well, coexisting and co-creating.

From another post I wrote (Would it make sense to avoid using a bank?)

Gold, Silver and other storage and exchange formats of 'wealth' will not, by themselves, taste good, keep one warm or provide basic survival sustenance.

That stated, a review of history reveals that since time recorded, or at least the recordings we have access to, precious metals have been the vehicle that stored wealth was mutually agreed upon, and it is also the mechanism of juice that was used in exchange as communities (and kingdoms) re-established after upheaval transitions. I haven't found any evidence that this has not always been the case, but, sure, it could be different this time, though I doubt it.

Look at modest and distributed precious metals as one of the tools and resources to get from here, to there ... also, if only the elite held precious metals, whom do you think would be 'in charge' after a transitory upheaval, and what sort of society do you feel they would want to (Re)implement?

I don't fear the powers will outlaw precious metal ownership again, like prohibition, I think some lessons were learned, but, the sheer fact that they did once outlaw it (except for their internal and banking uses) leads me to feel they understand the undifferentiated power of precious metals. By undifferentiated, I mean, the metal is neither good nor evil, simply a tool, like a guitar, a hammer or a fact.

Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[Rocky_Shorz]

I heard a great quote today...

my 401K plan is now a 201K...

I told my dad to grab some silver yesterday while the Market was down, with it jumping from 10.40 to 12 he did make a move earlier today.

That was just good timing on my part, crude is on its way back down again even after a facility was knocked out in Nigeria.

carrying 4 coins around versus a barrel of oil.. no brainer...

Point them to the article that the FDIC can no longer cover obligations...

that alone will get them rethinking where they are keeping their money...

[Zynox]

My parents have a half mil in the stock and bond market right now. They're pretty confident it's safe and secure. I've been trying to convince to at least invest in $10k worth of gold and silver and store it at our house. How should I go about actually convincing them in my rational? Any valuable resources that my do the trick?

GregorArturo,

Welcome ... to my world ... I had this very conversation today with my mother. She lived through the depression and realizes this is a different economic event, even that it is more severe, but we are talking about conditioned serious issues. How long have we all been blitzed with the meme to trust the system, prosper with the system, feed the system? I have not found any answer beyond gently encourage and move forward, as all folks come around to their decisions from within their perceived inner universes.

Funny thing was, while I was there, she gave me several updates on the gold price surge today, I hadn't checked, so, perhaps she might exit some before the rush.

Here is one imaginative idea, borrow some of their funds, and convert it to metal for them, and then all share some smiles later!

Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[TAXMASTER]

TaxMaster,

How easy is it to buy large quantities of real silver, not paper?

Did you have an Epic Day today in Gold sales?

.

rocky,

what do you call large quantity? you mean a semi....truckload....bucket of.. etc.

right now you can buy from local coin dealers. i just bought 1000 silver dollars from blue moon coins on the internet. you can find plenty on ebay. there are numerous precious metal dealers on the internet ie kitco, goldmine etc.

i day trade so that i am out of my positions at the end of the day. today was a good day. however i will be looking at a pull back maybe tomorrow. nothing usually goes straight up or down. since today was a tremendous increase in metals, i will look for a correction tomorrow. i will not know until the morning which way i will go. sometimes i am wrong. nothing is perfect.

Namaste'

ps i do not consider making making sound economic decisions that will take care of your family a sellout to the establishment. i consider it a necessity.

[Rocky_Shorz]

silver has jumped another 25 cents since I last look, I think teh buy in is starting

[TAXMASTER]

rocky,

as a futures trader let me give you some advice. the price will rise, then might fall for a day-week, then might rise for 2 weeks and inbetween might fall intermitantly. nothing goes straight up or down. tomorrow the price might pull back to $11.25. this would be natural. you almost have to look at the closing price at the end of each week to determine an up trend or down trend.

Namaste'

[GregorArturo]

Thanks Zynox! I wish they'd loan me money but at the moment they're supporting me through school and my art projects, and so ya, they aren't gonna give me anymore haha. I know that for a fact. They aren't big spenders in the least bit. I really appreciate your response.

[THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR]

Hi Zynox,

Can you tell me where and how to buy Gold and Silver securely in Hong Kong?

Also do you know what the restricions are on travelling with Gold via international flights?

Thanks very much for any advice you can give...

P. W.:yikes:

[skyking]

Precious Metals are not for investment - those who would be day traders will get burned very quickly. Physical metals are for preservation of wealth in the long term. I suggest you check out the following forum and read the Silver and Gold threads back at least a month or two to get a feeling for what has been going on.

http://silverbullionaires.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php#8

Because of physical shortage, the premium you will pay over the current asking price will be increasing. I DO NOT recommend buying from eBay. Find a local coin dealer to establish a relationship with, and if you can't find someone locally then I suggest using one of the online retailers like Bullion Direct, Kitco, APMEX, or my preferred dealer Tulving.

http://tulving.com/goldbull.html#silver

Be advised that most retailers have been out of stock for almost a month now and are getting stock in dribs and drabs. Keep checking back daily to find any offerings. Be prepared to keep your physical bullion at a safe location but do NOT put it in a Safe Deposit Box at the bank.

The least expensive form of these products are the Silver Bullion Rounds in 1 oz. or bars in 10 oz. and Gold Bullion in 1 oz. bars from PAMP or Credit Suisse. Coins like Canadian Maples or American Eagles are numismatic (they have currency value) and you will pay an extra premium for these. For long term investment purposes the generic bars and rounds are just fine.

My advice is worth exactly what you paid for it! :thumb_yello:

[sky]

Hi Zynox,

Great idea! Thanks a lot for starting this thread and offering to answer questions. It indeed also relieves Michael St Clair well for this particular topic.

I am also a goldbug and following the developments closely since about a year. It's been an emotional rollercoaster also though with spot prices going up and down, althought rationally I know, one '"shouldn't" only look at it this way..
Yesterday I received Mahendra"s (financial astrologer) newsletter and he is predicting metals might loose up to 50% of their value from here! Hard to believe, but often he is been right in the long term. Do you know him?

I also want to keep some cash for now and am considering to exchange part of the euros in CHF, because I believe there might also come a meltdown of the euro. What is your opinion on the CHF, might that be a good choice also?

Namaste,
Sky

[Kris Riley]

Hi Zynox,

Great idea! Thanks a lot for starting this thread and offering to answer questions. It indeed also relieves Michael St Clair well for this particular topic.

I am also a goldbug and following the developments closely since about a year. It's been an emotional rollercoaster also though with spot prices going up and down, althought rationally I know, one '"shouldn't" only look at it this way..
Yesterday I received Mahendra"s (financial astrologer) newsletter and he is predicting metals might loose up to 50% of their value from here! Hard to believe, but often he is been right in the long term. Do you know him?

I also want to keep some cash for now and am considering to exchange part of the euros in CHF, because I believe there might also come a meltdown of the euro. What is your opinion on the CHF, might that be a good choice also?

Namaste,
Sky

Even though I'm no expert, I can see where the potential of such a scenario could happen. With everyone scooping up the gold and silver, everyone will be waiting to see when it will rise to such great heights in price and perhaps rush to sell and acquire cheap properties and such. That is if it were to reach the predicted market value. If for some reason there is a scene where things don't go as predicted. There will be a lot of sell back, because of course everyone that has bought will have bought to avoid short term losses instead of securing long term investment. At this point this may drive the value down. Any thoughts?

[Zynox]

Hi Zynox,

Can you tell me where and how to buy Gold and Silver securely in Hong Kong?

Also do you know what the restricions are on travelling with Gold via international flights?

Thanks very much for any advice you can give...

P. W.:yikes:

Greetings Peaceful Warrior,

I have no sources for metals outside the US, so hopefully someone with that information will visit and grace us on that topic. You might try the web for coin or jewelry stores in your area, I suspect they sell coins at most.

My experience is limited to international flights between the US and Costa Rica and Italy. I always travel with a few ounces of metal, both as a backup exit fund if I were ever to encounter weirdness and also because I give silver dollars as tips, to spread metal to those that may never have encountered it.

I always carry it in my carry on bag, and I have never been requested to open my bags or have them searched for the coins, and yet I have had them search for and find disposable lighters I forgot to remove. So there hasn't yet seemed to be any directed focus towards carrying coins. One consideration should always be to know the regulations of the countries one will be entering or passing through, as many have declaration limits for cash and other fiscal instruments, and I always assume these include precious metals.

Often declaration is requested if one is carrying more than $10,000 US. Interestingly, one could play a game with this, if so inclined, because the face value of a US Gold Dollar Coin is $50, versus a market value of around $900. I'm not suggesting this game be played, but I sure would like to get employers to pay in gold coins at face value!

Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[Zynox]

Market Availability Questions


Be advised that most retailers have been out of stock for almost a month now and are getting stock in dribs and drabs.

As Skyking has pointed out, availability issues have entered the precious metals market.

My experience so far, and this may/will change, is that the dealers you meet at local coin shows can provide the metals now, in large quantity. I have easy access to immediate delivery of 1000s of ounces of silver and 100s of ounces of gold, but no fiat funds for any more!

I strongly recommend folks form these relationships and networks with their local dealers, and once the resource is established, this part becomes easy, allowing focus in other areas of life.

Internet Transactions -

While I have been involved in many of these in the past, without problems, I have read many recent stories of slow delivery, and I would no longer recommend them on that basis alone.

Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[Zynox]

What Form of Precious Metals to Buy Questions

Gold and Silver and Platinum and Palladium and Coins and Bars, oh my!

Yes, initially the decisions may seem overwhelming. The choices are directly influenced by the intent.

For simple wealth preservation, I have settled on the following, for which I will add my recommendations afterwards.


Type of Metal

I have settled on a mix of silver and gold, with minor holdings also of platinum and palladium.


Type of Coins or Bars

I have settled on around a 60% gold, 40% silver ratio.

I have settled on only US Eagles and Canadian Mapleleafs, in both gold and silver coins, with a few recognized and fully 'branded' 10 ounce silver bars.


Size of Coins

I have settled on a wide mix of sizes in gold coins, including 1/25, 1/10, 1/4, 1/2 and 1 ounce sizes, and 1 ounce sizes in silver.


Reasons for Selections

I used to have some 100 ounce silver bars. What I found with these is that when selling them, many (most?) dealers will reduce the buy price per ounce to a value below spot price. They have told me that even name brand silver bars are sometimes (counterfeited?) not 99.99% pure silver, and I have also found that upon weighing them, they are not always 100 ounces as labeled on the bars! So, I have elected to rid myself of such unknowns and simply with just coins and a few more 'popular' labeled and recognized 10 ounce silver bars.

I now feel no bars are really prudent from the above, but they are still slightly more compact and convenient to store as compared to coins.

I have selected to mix the size (weight) of the gold widely, to provide future flexibility should we find ourselves in barter mode in the future, no different from carrying singles, fives, tens and twenties around currently.

I have selected to mix the type of metals I hold simply for diversity. Some folks trade back and forth between gold and silver when one spikes or declines versus the other, but I have found this also leads to much loss of premium (the cost over spot that is paid to the vendor to buy, or at times, the cost below spot which some dealers take as a fee when you sell) in transactions. It is like day trading, some want/enjoy, some don't.

I also have a minor amount of old US coins in 40% and 90% silver, left over from coin collecting days. I find them interesting, and some folks feel large quantities of these are a good deal. If we ever get to a point where we wanted to melt coins for industrial uses (which would technically be illegal per US defacing regulations), then these would require special processing to separate silver from other metals in the mix.

Some people hold older US and other countries coins, like from the 1800s through the 1930s, for a variety of purposes. These coins are generally much more expensive, and I no longer have any. There is some discussion that these might prove to be immune from any future confiscation, because they may have been exempted in the US 1933 wealth transfer game. I have watched long enough to feel nothing is certain, or 'insured', so I don't subscribe to the extra protection theory.


Please ask any specific questions on this post if something remains unclear.

Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[skyking]

Market Availability Questions

Internet Transactions -

While I have been involved in many of these in the past, without problems, I have read many recent stories of slow delivery, and I would no longer recommend them on that basis alone.




If you deal with someone like Tulving, if his website says he has it in stock, you place a call and lock in a price. You should send a wire transfer within two business days. Once he has your wired funds, he ships out same day via USPS Registered or UPS and depending on your location, you have your bullion within 5 days. Tulving will NOT sell what he doesn't have in stock. Some other retailers are having stock issues and try to show what's actually in stock on their website. Stay away from Northwest Territorial Mint - they take 3-4 months to ship AFTER they get your money.

[jonathan Burke]

I trade Gold, Silver, Crude, a few Forex pairs and have started an Elliottwave Thread here on the forum. If anyone is interested in talking gold shop as a trader and Project Avalon participant.

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2555

Jonathan

Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[Zynox]

Some perspective on recent gold movements, detailing 'historic' proportions, as the economic house of cards falls:


http://www.kitco.com/ind/nadler/sep172008B.html


"Forty-eight hours ago we wrote that "gold, it must prove that it is made of the hard stuff and it is under direct gold bug pressure to quickly recapture $800 and then at least $845.

If in fact this is the TEOTWAWKI scenario for which they were loading up of late, then the time has come -and then some -to reap such benefits."

A near 12% ($90.00) meteoric rise in the metal today should more than validate any such expectations, as it represents the single largest one-day move in dollar and percentage terms as well.

The day began on a positive enough note, but things quickly spiraled into a storm larger than any in recent memory. As well, as any in not-so-recent memory. Like that of January of 1980. As then, we have a combination of outside, and outsized events coming into the picture at once. As then, we will have renewed calls for $1600 or $2200 gold. Unlike then, there is no inflation spiral but more like the opposite process.

We cannot address or base findings on trading room rumors and would rather wait for confirmation on particular stories, but the trigger for today's move may well have been the talk on the street that UBS was looking for 'help' from the Swiss National Bank. SNB has denied the story. Market psychology now has people starting to mention names that they have ever had grudges against and that is quite dangerous. Take that kind of potential headline, couple it with a money-market fund halting redemptions, add the Russian markets crashing, and top it off with the Dow losing 451 points at one point during the day, just after AIG's demise was averted yesterday. Proposed stiffer rules on 'naked' short-selling may have had quite a bit to do with equity position unwinds as well.

Tiny market such as gold's only needed a relatively small injection of buyers' money to make the type of move which we have been witnessing today. As we wrote the other day, the surprise was that it took so long to see a move of this magnitude."


Got Spirituality and Gold for Flexibility?

Namaste!

[jonathan Burke]

Here's where gold is headed in reference to the Elliott Wave technology I use...

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/3640/goldhrlykq5.png

$940 I would say by Mid day Monday. Most likely a gap opening on Sunday night too.

We are in the early stages of a 3rd leg Zig Zag Wave C pattern, which is the fastest, most prevalent, most profitable trades one can have of all the waveforms.


The histogram at right shows likely price, the dark cloud shows time. The rating is akin to odds at left so 162.2:1 that this will happen this way.

Hope this helps,

Jonathan

Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[astraya]

Zynox,

Thanks for taking the time to answer all of these questions.

I'm in Canada and I ordered some gold yesterday and had a hard time getting the small denominations. I'm also trying to buy some silver today.

I'm wondering if the small denomination gold that is not stamped (ie: is not Maple Leaf coins etc.) is tradeable? It doesn't have the premium that the stamped bars/coins have but thought I would order some and trade later if necessary.

And regarding the silver, the maple leaf silver 1 oz. apparently has all been issued for 2008 but I have a chance to buy a large quantity of maple leaf coins but it's at close to 40% premium on the spot price. Watching the prices on maple leaf coins on e-bay, this deliverable price is still about 25% below that. I figure I can probably sell some of these maple leaf coins if necessary.

From your previous interviews (if I'm correct about who you really are) and your posts, I'm taking into account that gold in your hands is worth quite a bit more than the spot price which seems to be mostly influenced by "paper" gold...maybe worth two in the bush :-).

Also, what do you think about the theory put forth by Fulford that Japanese Gold may flood the market to back the United States Economy?

Again, thanks for your time.

Astraya

[Zynox]

From your previous interviews (if I'm correct about who you really are) and your posts, I'm taking into account that gold in your hands is worth quite a bit more than the spot price which seems to be mostly influenced by "paper" gold...maybe worth two in the bush :-).

Also, what do you think about the theory put forth by Fulford that Japanese Gold may flood the market to back the United States Economy?


Astraya!

Please, I am a :yikes:Leo:yikes: and can't afford a stroked ego, then I'd have to go back through all those lessons of grandiosity!

I really am, just me, whom else might I be! Practicing poet, that uses precious metals as a tool to achieve my aims, which from two weeks on Avalon have led me here:

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1944

... and here ...

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/group.php?groupid=16

I really am just an electrical wiz, wanting to connect on the ground with folks choosing a new paradigm, and acting to fulfill that vision. I have never publicly written on precious metals before, but it feels right NOW, especially with so many wanting a slice of the truth from my experience.

I am gaining more here on Avalon than I give, but I keep trying to give back in reciprocation.

I have gone down the rabbit hole of the sequestered gold in the Philippines,black gold, Vatican gold, where is that confounded bridge and the troll's gold?, and come up for a breathe of air, and sigh, 'tis like the 911 complex wave, I DUNNO!!!!

~ Namaste ~

[Rocky_Shorz]

Hey Taxman,

I took your advice after seeing the market stabilizing, and went back to the coin shop and sold them all back at $12.75/oz.

Not bad for 2 days, I can see why you enjoy doing this for a living...:thumb_yello:

[TAXMASTER]

it is truly amazing how momentum can change directions on a dime. the price of silver flirted with $13 an ounce for severall hours and gold was well over $900 and then at the end of the day plumeted. right now silver is under $12 and gold is under $850. trading volume is down at the end of the day and market manipulation is easier to accomplish. i look for both to go up over the night as asian and european markets open.

there have been rumors of a price disconect in these markets for some time. the large banks who store gold are not audited for their supplies and if they state that they got 10 million ounces in their vault, then their word is taken as gospel. they then can allow someone else to lease this gold and sell it on the futures market. everyone that understands supply and demand knows what happens when there is more supply than demand, the price goes down. now just think if you were one of the lucky guys that got to lease the gold from the bank and sell it on paper on the futures market. the bank actually pays you to do that. (they discount the gold lease) then as you drive the price down on the market since there is a tremendous increase in the supply, you then buy it back at the lower rate and replace the gold to the bank...except that the gold is never moved, it is only done on paper...unaudited with no doublechecking on if the gold actually exists.

many of the mints that produce silver bars and rounds have a 2-3 month backlog of orders. they take your money but cannot guarantee delivery by a certain date. there is now a greater shortage of actual supply of silver than there ever has been. this is why most dealers charge a several dollar surcharge over the spot price because that is what the real value is based upon supply and difficulty to get.

Namaste'

ps, a good day trader can make money on any kind of market...you just have to stay on your toes and not go to the bathroom.

[TAXMASTER]

Hey Taxman,

I took your advice after seeing the market stabilizing, and went back to the coin shop and sold them all back at $12.75/oz.

Not bad for 2 days, I can see why you enjoy doing this for a living...:thumb_yello:

rocky,

next week you might regret doing that. however if your fast, you can run out and buy some more while the price is down. i don't think it will last for long. the market is like a bouncing ball, it depends on how high up from the floor that you catch the ball, the trouble is, the floor moves up and down too!

Namaste'

[astraya]

Please, I am a :yikes:Leo:yikes: and can't afford a stroked ego, then I'd have to go back through all those lessons of grandiosity!



Zynox,

Your picture is so mysterious for a Leo, you must have Scorpio Rising or something and perhaps some Uranus influence accounting for your "electricity".

I'm an Aquarius, so forever busting the Leos it seems...but very much appreciating the entertainment value :thumb_yello:.

At the risk of stroking your ego anymore, it seems that you are doing more practical work than the "person" I thought you were. Besides buying gold & silver, I'm also contemplating the best off-grid location to put down roots.

Not to get too much off topic, and back to my interest in what Benjamin Fulford is saying. He implies that the Sept. 30 U.S. Fiscal Year end will be the start of the unraveling of the U.S. economy. Which is the main reason I wanted to get into metals before that date. What does everyone else think?

Astraya

[currybai]

is this a good buy?

http://www.apmex.com/Product/44578/2009___1_oz_Silver_Maple_Leaf__2009_9_24.aspx

its around 15.50 and the spot price of silver now is 11.90

[Rocky_Shorz]

rocky,

next week you might regret doing that. however if your fast, you can run out and buy some more while the price is down. i don't think it will last for long. the market is like a bouncing ball, it depends on how high up from the floor that you catch the ball, the trouble is, the floor moves up and down too!

Namaste'

Luckily, I'm only a few miles from the coin dealer, when I cashed them back in today and made $500 I asked how he made his money and he laughed and said he depends on the little guy like me to watch the market for him, he bought $65K when I walked in a few days ago and was planning on selling out again after I left...

I told him he might see me again tomorrow, he said he hoped so... :wink2:

[Zynox]

Crimson and Clover, Dollar Rolling Over ...

"I advise establishing a position that allows you to hold through any downturns. The recent volatility in the fluctuating price of gold and precious metals equities has taught many investors a very painful lesson. Hopefully you have your cash position located in a place that will at least retain its nominal face value. There are other investment strategies you might consider to hedge yourself which you should discuss with your investment advisor, but ownership of gold is now a must and should play a major role in your overall portfolio."

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/kasun/kasun091808.html

[Trishsgate]

Quote:
Originally Posted by GregorArturo
My parents have a half mil in the stock and bond market right now. They're pretty confident it's safe and secure. I've been trying to convince to at least invest in $10k worth of gold and silver and store it at our house. How should I go about actually convincing them in my rational? Any valuable resources that my do the trick?

GregorArturo,

Welcome ... to my world ... I had this very conversation today with my mother. She lived through the depression and realizes this is a different economic event, even that it is more severe, but we are talking about conditioned serious issues. How long have we all been blitzed with the meme to trust the system, prosper with the system, feed the system? I have not found any answer beyond gently encourage and move forward, as all folks come around to their decisions from within their perceived inner universes.

Funny thing was, while I was there, she gave me several updates on the gold price surge today, I hadn't checked, so, perhaps she might exit some before the rush.

Here is one imaginative idea, borrow some of their funds, and convert it to metal for them, and then all share some smiles later!

Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.


-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Zynox; Today at 01:09 PM.


Please help from a poor soul who walked away from wealth at an early age. I too have been trying to get my parents to please reinvest into something tangible for them, with some success last year my dad pulled his stocks but still has quite a bit tied up in the banking system and refuses to budge, I have no choice but to let it be. My question is I have never been materialistic and find it hard to get up the nerve to go for this, any suggestions? I can survive on very limited means and have always done so. You had also mentioned somewhere and forgive me for not locating your words that gold worn provides a sense of help can you elaborate further on this as well, a friend of mine has also told me this but I have always declined to do so?

[Zynox]

I'm an Aquarius, so forever busting the Leos it seems...but very much appreciating the entertainment value :thumb_yello:.

... my interest in what Benjamin Fulford is saying. He implies that the Sept. 30 U.S. Fiscal Year end will be the start of the unraveling of the U.S. economy. Which is the main reason I wanted to get into metals before that date. What does everyone else think?



Astraya,

Oh No! :yikes:(best Home Alone face):yikes:, not an Aquarian, my heart and fire can't be quenched! Linda Goodman warned me, Harr!

Zy, straightens back up and onto topic -

I do see 09/30/2008 (reduced to 22) as pivotal, the books have to be inked and whilst we still have any resemblance of adhering to the quickly re-written 'laws' and '(de)regulations', for inconvenience sake, I suspect there shalt be MUCH fallout. On one Level! On another level, this still seems to be totally a wealth transfer, but I feel it is now adhering to chaos theory, and out of the 'master's' control. We shall see very soon!

Side note, please e-mail/message me a contact point if you would be willing to run my natal chart interpretation for me, it feels you have that background.

~ Namaste ~

[Waterman]

If you can get them to call these people. You will have to google their site to get the phone number.

Pat Kiley - Forex trading about 45 years
great advisor.

Then just good info who will take calls and refer your parents to someone FOR FREE is Bob Chapman of The International Forecaster.

[Zynox]

Please help from a poor soul ... My question is I have never been materialistic and find it hard to get up the nerve to go for this, any suggestions?

You had also mentioned somewhere and forgive me for not locating your words that gold worn provides a sense of help can you elaborate further on this as well, a friend of mine has also told me this but I have always declined to do so?

Greetings Trishgate,

My feelings are that many attitudes regarding gold have been imprinted upon us, the masses, with an agenda to discredit it, instilling the thoughtforms that it is either a barbaric relic or a nefarious and evil item. To me, it is a tool to be used like any other, maybe this will help, maybe this will never be a tool you will resonant with.

Michael St.Clair and many others have noted that there is a vibrational aspect to gold, and other precious metals, that may influence our 'being', and, I agree. I haven't really gone down this rabbit hole much, just note I feel good with it in my presence.

~ namaste ~

[Trishsgate]

Thank you so much for your reply it is indeed something to ponder, I won't know until I try. I have some tri-color that I do not wear I bought it for the colors is that the same thing? Then again it may not be my thing I do have crystals which I find I resonant with.
Peace and Love

[Zynox]

I have some tri-color that I do not wear I bought it for the colors is that the same thing?
Peace and Love

Only you and thy hairdresser know for sure:biggrin2:, but tri, and white gold, are my favorites, based on colors!

~ namaste ~

[Zynox]

Yesterday I received Mahendra"s (financial astrologer) newsletter and he is predicting metals might loose up to 50% of their value from here! Hard to believe, but often he is been right in the long term. Do you know him?

I also want to keep some cash for now and am considering to exchange part of the euros in CHF, because I believe there might also come a meltdown of the euro. What is your opinion on the CHF, might that be a good choice also?


Sky,

I have read Mah's work and find it intriguing, and yet, as speculative info-bits, neutral I suppose. Many systems, many theories ... take and hold this perspective for a moment: What if he is right, and it goes to 50% and the fiat currencies all go to 25%, then metals are net ~ 100% ... this would not surprise me in the least.

I am not familiar with CHF, but if it any sort of a paper vehicle, well, paper seems to be a fire hazard, and they may all burn.

~ Namaste ~

[TAXMASTER]

here is mahendra's 2008 predictions: (does it sound familiar?)


KEY HIGHLIGHTS OF 2008 - Astrological predictions for world financial market of 2008



I always come out with yearly brief outlook in the first week of every New Year so my members can have a broad picture of the year. From 2001 to 2005 Metals, oil, commodity related stocks, weak dollar, coffee, and orange juice remained top in my list of my advice. 2006 Grains came in the top list with metals and oil. Everything went very well, as predicted, from 2001-2006 except for my stock market prediction was off-track.



In 2007 Dollar came in my list with alternative energy stocks. We all are aware that my favorite solar sector has done unbelievably well in 2007 but US dollar performed very poorly. On few occasions, commodity currencies had sudden corrections but over all I was absolutely wrong on Dollar prediction. I don’t want to cry on what already happened but it is always good that I shouldn’t forget about my wrong once because accurate and inaccurate both walk with you like train tracks.



Let us buckle up and go for a ride called “future of financial market of 2008”:



METALS

2008 holds mix trend for metals. From 14 of January metals will remain negative but from middle of February I see sharp rising in metals and upward trend shall continue till. From May 2008 metals will have negative trend and fall will be more than what they gained during Feb to Mid-March. From July to October, metals will trade weak but from Mid November through December metals will trade positive.



Metal stocks shall perform well in patches. First three month of year starting they will remain positive but from end of March metal stocks will have major setback. Except on few occasion they will rise during the pending seven months of 2008. So I don’t recommend investors to hold gold and silver stocks after Mid-March 2008.



ENERGY

2008 will remain unfavorable for energy from 4 of January. I don’t see any worst hurricane or weather related damage. Geo-political situation will remain unstable around the globe but it won’t have any major impact in oil prices so don’t buy oil you see uncertainty in middle-east, in fact rise oil prices in uncertainty should be taken as selling opportunity during 2008 Mid-March. On the down side I see oil going back to $68.80 and higher, it can touch $111.80 or may move higher till mid-March. Heating oil and RB gas to remain weak during 2008 but natural gas will surprise everybody by moving higher in second half of 2008.



From middle of 2008 one can buy natural gas and sell oil as a hedging will bring safe return.



GRAINS

During 2008, all grains will remain weak except corn. Soybean and soy bean products (soy oil and meal) will remain in bear market from 14 of January. Wheat will also move down in first half of 2008 but you can buy in second half of 2008 as wheat prices will move up sharply due to crop problem in Australia. I see Wheat moving to new high in second half and it may touch 1500. Canola and oat will remain weak during 2008.



SOFT COMMODITIES

Coffee and sugar is supposed to be my favorite in 2008, so one can keep accumulating the position if any drops come. Lumber and Orange juice will trade weak but we may see some volatility in prices of Cocoa.



STOCK MARKET

My outlook on USA stock market is very bullish during 2008. I see a huge amount of dollar inflow coming back from all different countries into the USA stock market. I highly recommend investors to withdraw money from all the developed countries markets and put the money in US stock market. During 2008 US stock market will outperform all other stock markets. India, China, Hong Kong, Australia, Singapore, Russia and South Korea will still remain in positive territory in second half of 2008 but they will lose value during the first four months of 2008. They will start losing value (except Russia) so simply one can start booking the profit in these markets starting week of the new year.



You all must be aware that I have been quite negative on European currencies and European stock markets as all major astrological combinations are moving away from Europe and that is the most concerning sign to me. I will not recommend anyone to invest heavily in European markets but one can buy sector specific area like alternative energy and uranium related stocks or stocks which support the nuclear power.



South American stock market will perform better then Asian and European markets.



African countries will not have a stable year in 2008 so my advice is to withdraw the money if someone is heavily invested in African countries.



My first target for Dow Jones is around 17,000 which should reach before the end of the year so those who want to buy the calls can make planning during the first week of January.



CURRENCIES

Dollar will remain in bull market and the journey for dollar will be very smooth without any obstacles. US Dollar should gain around 18% during 2008. All major currencies will have a setback against the US Dollar from Mid March except Japanese Yen and South American currencies. Euro, British Pound, Canadian Dollar and Australian Dollar will lose value quite sharply against the US dollar during the middle of the year. Indian Rupee, Chinese Yuan and Russian Rubble will remain stable.



If I have $100, I will put $45 in alternative energy areas like Solar, Bio-fuel, Geo-thermal, Cellulosic Ethanol, Wind and Nuclear. $15 I would put in banking and financial stocks, $10 I would put in commodity related stocks including Water and agriculture, and the remaining $30 I would put in wireless telecommunication, semi-conductor and the technology stocks. At the same time I would like to hold all the assets in US dollar.



GEO-POLITICAL SITUATION

During 2008, around the globe there will be political instability in each and every country. I do not see any major disaster like terrorist attacks so the violence will only occur due to the political reason in that country. I do not see any major natural disaster except there will be a big fire which will take place in USA again in 2008.



My newsletter will guide you on the short term trend because the trends mentioned above are just overall trend for 2008 but weekly and monthly trends or the price targets you will get in my newsletter.



Important golden note: Commodity market and commodity Index will move down from 4th of January as very important planetary movement is taking place. This one will only save you millions but it will make also millions. February and early March they will rise agains but from April they will lose value again.



I am also excited about my next book which is mostly covering all the markets as well as the world in brief. The book shall be out by the end of February.

[currybai]

after much reading and learning, I decided to finally purchase silver coins, the 2008 Canadian Maple Leaf with the 2010 Olympic. I ordered it through tulving. Thank you guys! I hope it was a good investment/insurance policy.


Also I been reading at how the Precious metal market might also be manipulated but I will ride this roller coaster out!!!

[Zynox]

Spiritually Golden

When we come face to face with babylon and question the spiritual prudence of supporting gold and precious metals, it may be helpful to equate peace with spirituality, and then to equate a relationship between gold / sound money and peace. Yes we have had wars while on a gold standard, but it feels to me that the standard was abandoned when the desire for war was increased, gold money became restrictive, and inconvenient.

Ron Paul:
http://www.house.gov/htbin/blog_inc?BLOG,tx14_paul,blog,999,All,Item%20not%20 found,ID=080831_2356,TEMPLATE=postingdetail.shtml

In Government We Trust? Part 1

"Many who agree with me on a lot of other issues, do not understand my enthusiasm for gold and sound money or why I spend so much time studying and talking about monetary policy. It's true that I talk about money differently than most, but the fact is sound money offers many benefits. For example – peace.

Can sound money really bring about peace? Actually, it plays a big part in peaceful international relationships. Money based on commodities, rather than paper, is not subject to government manipulation, and is a key component to free and honest trade. History shows that if countries engage in trade with each other, their governments tend to find ways to get along for the same reason you do not kill your customers at your place of business, even if they occasionally annoy you. If someone outright cheats you, however, you may engage in “war” by taking them to court, for example, and the relationship will sour. Governments and central banks with unfettered power to manipulate currency also have the ability to cheat their creditors. One way they do this is to simply create enough currency to pay off debts. This devalues the currency and “cheats” the recipient out of what they are owed. It would not be fair if you watered down your product the way our government waters down its currency, so it is not hard to understand, in these simplified terms, why loose monetary policy contributes so much to ill will and war around the world.

Sound money, on the other hand, simply is what it is."

~ Namaste / Got an Honest Politician, Supporting Gold? ~

[Rocky_Shorz]

I jumped into Wamu Yesterday with what I had from selling the coins.

just about died when I read it was going to tank today, but waited for it to climb and dumped it off.

Turned my 2 into 4 in a week...

That was a fun ride...

The short sales are postponed until Oct 3rd, what are the experts predicting will happen after that?

After the US fiscal year ends, are they going to let it free fall again?

[Xmen442002]

Gold and silver will not save you from what is to come. How can you cash in so to speak if there is no currency to base the value of your gold on. This is going to be a global economic meltdown and it start right here in the US. Yes a new currency will arise out of this mess( probably a credit system, anyone remember Logan's Run)
There is no safe market in which to turn to.
When this does transpire, barter will be the only method of obtaining items of value.

Xmen

[kopenhagen]

Zynox,
Not to get too much off topic, and back to my interest in what Benjamin Fulford is saying. He implies that the Sept. 30 U.S. Fiscal Year end will be the start of the unraveling of the U.S. economy. Which is the main reason I wanted to get into metals before that date. What does everyone else think?
Astraya

you're absolutely right, buy before end of Sep,may I ask from who do you purchase in CAnada? could you please provide the link?
thanks

I"m a Gem :original:

[Waterman]

Here is a source for outside US banking management, AND particularly if you want to do it very privately....contact these folks.

www.rayservers.com

I've done business with them they are honest.

[astraya]

you're absolutely right, buy before end of Sep,may I ask from who do you purchase in CAnada? could you please provide the link?
thanks

I"m a Gem :original:

Hi Gem,

I bought from Bank of Nova Scotia but they are out of Silver Maple Leafs until 2009. So I'm looking elsewhere for those.

Hope that helps...

[zorgon]

Gold and silver will not save you from what is to come. How can you cash in so to speak

Very valid point... what will you do carry a file and scale to the grocery store to buy bread and milk? And how much Gold or silver do you file off for a loaf of bread?

Gold and Silver in bullion are great if you plan to leave a country and need portable assets that are not dependent on 'local currency' but then taking large amounts of bullion out of the country is illegal... (its one of the things that Hitler was 'upset' about at the Jews...)

Also if people know you have gold... you will be a target very quickly :mfr_omg:




When this does transpire, barter will be the only method of obtaining items of value.



Stockpile goods... make a list of
1) YOUR needs
2) Barter goods...

Even if NOTHING bad happens stockpile is a GOOD thing

1) If you buy in bulk when things are cheap (stuff that has a good shelf life) you can save TONS of money... for no other reason than saving money keeping a storefouse is a great idea

Example... Columbian coffee went on sale for 4.50 for a large can... we bought two years supply... Vacuum sealed cans... today that same coffee is selling fro 8.49...

2) In case of any emergency... weather, natural disaster, banks closing (WAMU) if you have a few months of food and water in the house... you will have time to think when things go bad... the Mormons insist that their people have a MINIMUM of a 72 hour kit on hand for each family member... on that you can grab on your way out the door in case of a New Orleans type situation

List of Items you should have...

Toilet Paper :bleh: Sounds funny? Well when was the last time YOU went without it?

Coffee... if you drink it your addicted... if you don't it will be great for barter... same with alchohol... I even convinced a Mormon of this wisdom... because alchohol can always be used as an antiseptic as well as a pain killer

Aspirins... this is one medicine that is easy to keep long term, not a prescription and very inexpensive, but very useful

Water proof matches, Bic lighters

Hard Candies... again cheap and last forever... but great for barter...

Honey... lasts LITERALLY for ever... and has anti bacterial/antiseptic properties...

So make a list... think of things you couldn't live without.... then make a list of things the other guy would steal because HE can't live without

Oh and you need some protection and the will to use it... otherwise you will have many new friends and relatives visiting because YOU were smart enough to prepare...

One last thing a small deisel generator and a barrel of fuel (or one of those new solar powered generators)

[Zynox]

Precious Metals as Transitional Tools

There have been lots of public and private responses that nudge:

"You can't eat gold."
"You'll be a target with gold."
"No one will accept gold when it all collapses."
"You'll blow an gold ounce on a loaf of bread."

All these statements feel to need simple clear responses.

My philosophy, experience, intuition and common sense are that:

Anyone with any level of resource in a collapse and transition will be deemed a target to some psychopath on the path. There is no escape from this in this world.

Unless one decides to equip and use weapons, then there is nothing left to do beyond form a community of trusted sober folks and share with each other. Share skills, share cool heads, share ideas, share common sense, share resources, food, tools and precious metals as a reasonable barter facilitator.

The remaining three items above, are all actually tangents of the same topic, how can precious metals serve as an effective barter and wealth mechanism?

The answer is simple, and that is to apply common sense to the questions:

Have an appreciable diversity of sizes of gold and at least some silver coins.

An example might be to have ten 1/10 ounce gold coins, each currently 'worth' about $90 US. Add to this one hundred silver one ounce coins, each currently worth about $14 US. I would barter my '$14' silver for your loaf of bread and thank you, when I am hungry!

Review the history of mankind, especially the recent US depression (1933, not the current one!) and the Russian and Argentinian 'collapses'. In all of these cases there are narrated descriptions of how metal shined as a barter tool.

I welcome questions about how some nuances may work, but respectfully submit the nay sayers may find some interesting reading, if they will search the net with easy inquiries like "Gold" "Argentina Crash", etc.

As a final nugget, please consider why precious metals have so many associated negative attachments. It is my belief there has been a long endeavor by governments and their puppet masters to discount the utility and the neutrality of gold. It feels like a well orchestrated agenda going back at least 250 years, maybe much further.

So, why would they not want such a powerful tool to be publicly accepted? I'll leave that for imaginative contemplation.

To the nay sayers, are your impressions on gold and precious metals yours, or absorbed programming? If you are not certain, please at least read the following and identify yourself in the next post here, and state publicly:

WHAT KIND OF A DOOMER ARE YOU?
http://www.peakoilblues.com/blog/?p=194

At least when I know this, I'll be better equipped to relate to you, on your terms.

~ namaste ~

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[publius]

I also want to keep some cash for now and am considering to exchange part of the euros in CHF, because I believe there might also come a meltdown of the euro. What is your opinion on the CHF, might that be a good choice also?

Sky

I think the CHF is one of the few sound currencies left on the planet. I have heard that Austrian and Danish currencies are also gold-backed, but I am yet to verify this. I am currently attempting to get my father to dump his dollars and buy francs. As for Euros, I am not confident that they have a good long term future. They are just another low-rent fiat currency whose value rests in the hands of... I wonder who?

Not to be alarmist, but it may do everyone a bit of good to bear in mind that if things go bust in a truly catastrophic fashion, I am not certain that any conventional investment will be worth a damn. If food becomes scarce, for example, a ton of gold won't buy an egg. I would say that preparation of an emergency kit may be a sound idea at this time. Enough basics like food to live on for at least one year. Just a thought.

[clarkkent]

QUESTION fer zynox or others.

ive been trying to buy silver coins in NY at stores and have about 1000 worth of eagles but now i cant get them ANYWHERE, not online either, unless i buy 500 ounces which i cant afford.

heres my question, BARS are still available at this time on MONEX.

i can buy a 100 ounce bar for around 1200-1300 something dollars. which is WAY cheaper than 100 one ounce coins.

silver and gold is silver and gold when theres a currency crisis dont you think? id prefer small denominations but a hundred ounce bar seems like a great deal as an alternative.

whadya think?

-kyle

[Zynox]

ClarkKent (love the avatar and ID),

Follow thy heart, inner wisdom and such, my heart says grasp as thou wilt, but that is me, and the game and energies are now hyperbolic! Beyond some equations in math, I haven't got direct experience in these conditions! In a week, or a month, I'd be able to elucidate further, but not in this moment!

I SO recommend any with an open mind peek at the Half Past Human threads at:

Half Past Human
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2205

and / or:


IMPORTANT - WebBot Predictions (October 7th Event) on Coast to Coast Sunday!
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2762

~ namaste ~

[clarkkent]

thanks zynox, (im a huge comicbook/film fan fyi -regarding my avatar ;) )

ill check thse threads as you suggested, and for my intuition id rather have an unweildy silver bar than no silver at all, so there ya go :)

be well

-k

[Shellie]

I will urge everyone on this thread to jump to the thread -What you need to know/David Icke

[Zynox]

Folks,

I have been informed from trusted source (to me) that the following dealer is available to ship immediate stock to US and Canadian addresses:

http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html

Also, I have been informed that it is important to request a tracking number e-mail, as it is not an automated function, but they will upon request. Apparently they ship with insurance via Llyods of London, but I am unsure if they (Llyod's) may be interwoven with the AIG conglomerate or not.

As always, please do your own due diligence on this information. I have no association with this firm, and, no direct experience with them.

~ namaste ~

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[clarkkent]

i told my girlfriend to buy from MONEX since they seemed like one of the bigger legit sellers. can anyone verify that they are ok to buy from?

[Rocky_Shorz]

i told my girlfriend to buy from MONEX since they seemed like one of the bigger legit sellers. can anyone verify that they are ok to buy from?

at this point you should drive down to a coin shop...

from what I've heard their turn around is pretty slow right now, depending on what happens with the market when it opens, you might want to get on the road early...

[lohiaaditya]

Hi Zynox,

Do you expect the gold to drop below 850$? I mean looking at the looming crisis, do you think that this is possible or it will only rise minus a negligible drop of a few dollars here and there. I bought gold the day before it went up $100. So now I am just wondering.

Thankx.

Aditya

[Zynox]

lohiaaditya,

I feel there will be a continual appreciation in value of all precious metals, and, most commodities, as the current global economic model and paradigm transitions. I use the term appreciation in value, because, if the US$ or other currencies depreciate say by a factor of 50%, and gold, as an example depreciated by 25%, then this is an appreciation in value of gold, in comparison to a particular paper currency.

I am converting my thinking, a day at a time, towards what will another sovereign individual be willing to mutually exchange for the resources I have accumulated, such as an acre of productive farmland for an ounce of gold, or an alternative energy creation for ten pieces of silver. I seek for precious metals to be a tool to facilitate these mutually beneficial exchanges.

I seek to extract myself, sequentially, from all levels of complicity in a banking and economic model that doesn't promote human growth, compassion and equal exchange. I feel this wave is here, and it will swell to wondrous proportions, with some challenges, and extreme benefit to humanity.

~ namaste ~

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

[Zynox]

List of Items you should have...

Toilet Paper :bleh: Sounds funny? Well when was the last time YOU went without it?


Zorgon,

After the recent hubbub on maindreams news outlets, my mother e-mailed that what she has on her list is toilet paper and pitchforks ... seems those memes are propagating quickly.

Remember when things were a little more balanced and the great painting of the american farm family with the elder male with a pitchfork proudly displayed? I'd prefer that the mass consciousness and collective be peace aligned, but we're in transition now, and many methods will be used to create the next age, may it be, golden!

Transition Tip #1 - Useless paper currency may be used as a replacement for toilet paper in need, since I haven't seen a Sears catalog in a long time.

~ namaste ~

[historycircus]

Greetings!

This thread is interesting indeed, and have a few thoughts/questions of my own.

It seems to me that those who are investing in gold today, are those who feel it will bring some sort of economic security tomorrow - in a system that is merely an extension of what is already failing. Could precious metals be the way that the PTB keep those who see the insanity of the current paper currency debacle plugged into an economic system based on THIER control? Are the buyers of gold and silver today opening themselves up to the unpleasant scrutiny of the NWO tomorrow? Just a thought.

Will gold and silver be viable in the type of community we all seek (i.e., the "radiant zones")? Will it be a form of currency? Will it be an item of exchange? Or will it be the butt of jokes?

I am in no way attempting to insult, malign, or discredit the advice of George Green.

What do you all think? Should gold - beyond its value for conduction in microchips - be of any value to us in the future? If we do value it after a collapse, are we not buying into the same mentality that has been foisted on us for generations?

Peace, love, and funny colors to you all,

HistoryCircus - because history is full of clowns.

[mukk]

I have invested in gold and silver. I travel and live in Shanghai china part of the year. I recently brought with me many of my gold coins in my pocket ( thanks george) and was not an issue in fact they did not even notice. I think traveling is ok at this time. Who knows what will happen if all hell breaks loose. I bring gold coins with me as a safe back up...just in case..i do not want to be trapped here in china is everything goes up in smoke....

stay positive

mm

[Zynox]

Could precious metals be the way that the PTB keep those who see the insanity of the current paper currency debacle plugged into an economic system based on THIER control?

Will gold and silver be viable in the type of community we all seek (i.e., the "radiant zones")? Will it be a form of currency? Will it be an item of exchange? Or will it be the butt of jokes?

If we do value it after a collapse, are we not buying into the same mentality that has been foisted on us for generations?


Welcome HistoryCircus!

I have enjoyed our convergences on other threads and encourage your perspectives here, I have grokked a lot from our other exchanges, and enjoy the challenges you present.

I trust few politicians, and I work towards embracing the next phase of folks that serve as mediators and elders in a more rhizome type structure of nurturing management of the planet.

Ron Paul has said (link in previous post in this thread):

In Government We Trust? Part 1

"Many who agree with me on a lot of other issues, do not understand my enthusiasm for gold and sound money or why I spend so much time studying and talking about monetary policy. It's true that I talk about money differently than most, but the fact is sound money offers many benefits. For example – peace."

I deem peace as first priority, as without it, we can't solve poverty, economic challenges, education challenges or any other critical transition to golden age issues, because war is parasitic vamprism on ever conceivable level, so as Ron says, and I agree, step by step, honest restrictive healthier money, leads to peace. One of our critical first movements.


They outlawed gold as money in the US for a reason, and then only re-instituted in a non-circulating fashion.


They totally abandoned gold as a backing of the US$ for global trade balances.


Gold restricted their plans, and we may use it as a tool towards peace.


Remove the noose before trying to step off the gallows.

~ namaste ~

[historycircus]

They, they, THEY, Zynox (not Robert Heielen, he's OK in my book)!

Ron Paul is a joke (as a viable representative of the people given our current system, not as a human being. I personally like the guy . . .)!

What I am saying is that the "value" of gold comes from the likes of Them, them, THEM. What is gold really worth? Can you eat it? If you wear it, who notices, and then thinks you worthy of thier attention for doing so? If you spend it, who takes it as valid currency, and reports that they have done so to their superiors? If you reject it, who cares - other than the system that has told you you are crazy for doing so?

Eight years ago, an ounce of pot (the "controlled substance") was worth more than an ounce of gold (at least in Cali, and it had to be very good, quality pot) - verify through the HT THMQ index if you wish (I will not explain the acronyms - google, you will find). Now we are approaching a thousand bucks an ounce for gold. The same people behind the rise in value for this metal are the same people who will be there when you cash it in to take advantage of said value.

I respect you, and wish not to project an attitude of disrespect. Your opinions have value to me.

Peace and Love to you, our readers, and families.

[bilderburger w/cheese]

buying gold/silver:

apmex and tulving are reasonable and reliable according to the kitco gold forum members. monex is to AVOIDED.

https://www.kitcomm.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7&page=9&order=desc

the chip gold is an affordable idea, and its available at kitco. (if i recall, the members thought that kitco was okay. they seemed to be high on apmex and tulving for the best prices and service, though).

i have an order coming tomorrow from tulving, so i cant personally confirm nor deny that theyre great until i have the order in my hands.

[Lance]

Having dealt with both cannabis, legally in Canada, and precious metals I'd like to chime in on this thread and say this. Cash is useless.
I have friends whom cultivate the very best cannabis, that will be a barter item in the near future.
That said.
I also have enough metals to cover the mortgage payments for the next 3 years. That is not all that much metal since I pay very little and cover the entire mortgage/tax/insurance payments with my rent. I would sincerely urge everyone to buy enough metals to stay put over the next three years.
The decision is yours of course, but we here at the 'idea' farm have been trying to allocate a small amount of currency into the best possible use. We've put up a greenhouse, grow alot of our own food and have about $30,000.00 in metals. We also ow guns, arte looking at buying Dexter cattle and doing other things. But if you have currency printed upon paper...it is worth the same as the paper would cost. Get out of paper yesterday.

As for Canuck metals dealers with inventory
sigh, maybe I shouldn't...
https://www.jandm.com/defaultsecure.htm

But I will because, because it really doesn't matter at this point. I have mine, I buy a bit here and there, but c'est la vie. Get it while and if you can.
The point of the metals being worthy come from our ancient seafaring/trading past and actually make sense once you've looked into it.
It's not a way to get rich, it's a way of avoiding being broke.

I hope that helps
I'd rather have my store of seeds (which I do and sell) than gold, but banks don't take them as trade. Keep te bank happy, keep the people that live on the farm happier........

[historycircus]

Bilderburger with cheese,

While I feel your intentions, since you are here, are good, I can't help but lament your lack of sensitivity.

Gold, platinum, and silver will soon have no value, beyond use value.

Those who believe this will suffer immediately, and survive.

Those who don't will suffer later, survive, and encounter those who gave up on the so-called precious metals as a saviour long ago. For those looking to prolong your fate, be aware that not all groups on the "outside" will be interested in service-to-others.

"Liquidity" is a viable term. But it is what we choose to liquidize that determines the modus operandi of any society. Shall it be metal? Or shall it be our intent, our goals?

You decide.

[historycircus]

Having dealt with both cannabis, legally in Canada, and precious metals I'd like to chime in on this thread and say this. Cash is useless.
I have friends whom cultivate the very best cannabis, that will be a barter item in the near future.
That said.
I also have enough metals to cover the mortgage payments for the next 3 years. That is not all that much metal since I pay very little and cover the entire mortgage/tax/insurance payments with my rent. I would sincerely urge everyone to buy enough metals to stay put over the next three years.
The decision is yours of course, but we here at the 'idea' farm have been trying to allocate a small amount of currency into the best possible use. We've put up a greenhouse, grow alot of our own food and have about $30,000.00 in metals. We also ow guns, arte looking at buying Dexter cattle and doing other things. But if you have currency printed upon paper...it is worth the same as the paper would cost. Get out of paper yesterday.

As for Canuck metals dealers with inventory
sigh, maybe I shouldn't...
https://www.jandm.com/defaultsecure.htm

But I will because, because it really doesn't matter at this point. I have mine, I buy a bit here and there, but c'est la vie. Get it while and if you can.
The point of the metals being worthy come from our ancient seafaring/trading past and actually make sense once you've looked into it.
It's not a way to get rich, it's a way of avoiding being broke.

I hope that helps
I'd rather have my store of seeds (which I do and sell) than gold, but banks don't take them as trade. Keep te bank happy, keep the people that live on the farm happier........

As a businessman with viable interests, you shouldn't have posted this.

But here you are, spooks be damned, eh?

But I will say, old pirates and Acadians can cleanse themselves afterwards, that we are on the verge of a new way. If you come to a "radiant zone" with pockets full of gold, remember, they will take you anyway - your gold means nothing.

But when you trade that gold to eat for a day, a week, or a month, remember these words: life is free - we pay for ********.

I do not mean any disrespect, and I wish you, and all you know love, peace, and happiness.

[Zynox]

They, they, THEY, Zynox (not Robert Heielen, he's OK in my book)

HistoryCircus,

I divert off topic, but maybe humor breaks through our filters better than uninterrupted serious stuff, at times:

And one time, at band camp, this dude dropped a box of shades, and my oh my, the world of perception flipped outside in:

They:
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc157/mollylambert/2pac/they-live-head.jpg

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/

Allegory, Metaphor, Fact, Fiction?

If that avenue fails, I demand my sovereign right to resort to prose, to break open my mental shakles -

Constructs

Sensations received
Faster than the blink of an eye
Processed though filtered
Attempts to make sense

Compared against backdrop
Of previous experiences
Themselves but filtered
Some never resolved

Among the flashes
Struggles to keep pace
Transcending
Delusions and illusions

Mind sorts, organizes
Categorizes in comparisons
Rubbing each input perceived
Against backdrop of memory

Only with intentional focus
Structured consciousness
With detachment of opinion
May life be lived as it flashes

Finding harmony is key
As reality is interpreted
Interpretation is
Reality constructed
Different for each of us

Be it love, sorrow, pain
Joy, excitement or horror
Each experience is subject
To the perception granted

~ namaste ~

[historycircus]

Is, is that, Brian Williams?

[Zynox]

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/usa_dees.jpg

[TAXMASTER]

to those of you that despise gold and silver, i just bet that when you go to the store tomorrow, you do not pay for it with a bushel of corn or 3 chickens. gold and silver are just means to an end. it appears that the dollar will fail soon but that does not mean that all of society will also fail. gold and silver have had value for thousands of years and it is available now for trade for paper dollars. (that may soon be worth nothing)

as long as somebody values it, gold and silver will be tradeable. you can use your hundred dollar bills as tender for lighting a fire this winter when you have no heat. if everything does break down, there will be a time when the metals will still be valued and you can use them to position yourself with food, whatever transportation will be viable, and medicine.

as i monitor the futures market, i still cannot believe that there are people that still believe the market is not fixed. with all the talk about the bail out, the dollar is actually stronger today and gold and silver have dropped substantially. Whaaas suuup?

Namaste'

[Zynox]

it appears that the dollar will fail soon but that does not mean that all of society will also fail.

gold and silver have had value for thousands of years and it is available now for trade for paper dollars

Whaaas suuup?

Namaste'

Sage comments, mine will veer esoteric -

Funny thing, near every paper currency that has been used on this planet, excluding those currently 'bartered' ones, have, ummmm ..... failed. Does this not then indicate a systemic issue with fiat / faux / debt 'money'?

Funny thing, there is no con-pirate-cy rewriting of his-story regarding precious metals, they have always retained a neutral stance as a tool, to be utilized, based upon intention. When they became impractical and unaligned with controlling agendas, they were taken out of relative circulation, yet, majestically, they are, in this window of 'time', available, for utilization, as a mechanism to preserve, or 'finance', your dreams.

I would celebrate if the readership of this forum held a higher percentage of metal versus paper, because I feel we could work together with conscious intention better than the current handlers have ...

~ namaste ~

[TAXMASTER]

My wife, god bless her, fears that I may be off the deep end but thankfully she loves me and does go along with me occasionally. she is like 95% of all the people out there that believes this will all pass and everything will go back to things as usual. This is what we all truly want even if the world isn't heaven, it kinda grows on you.

I have been socking away gold and silver for sometime and she does get a little peaved about not having all our money in the bank where she can get a statement once a month and look at her balance. Two weeks ago, I bought the last hoard of 1000 silver dollars that this guy had and brought them home and she about went nuts. The only problem is if something happens to us and someone buys our house and puts in a garden or digs in unusual places, they might get a big surprise.

I haven't decided yet if the government calls in gold, whether or not I will be a law abiding citizen. I hope it doesn't get to that but who knows. We all might be in trouble if the rumors are true about russia and china supporting a new gold backed currency.

Namaste'

[bilderburger w/cheese]

historycircus:

we are all here for the continuous sifting and winnowing of information until we find the most accurate answers to our dilemmas and questions. nothing was taken personally.

as far as gold and silver is concerned, you of all people know that throughout history, gold and silver have been highly valued. regardless of the century, gold and silver will still be worth something in the future.

platinum and palladium are meaningless to me, and i would never buy them since they, unlike gold and silver, are not harmonious with the human body. as a matter of fact, the .9999 silver that one may barter could be used in a silver colloid solution to treat infections or other maladies. its money AND a cure. as far as gold is concerned, ive read differing things on monoatomic gold and gold colloid. i dont have any conclusions thus far (if anyone does, id absolutely like to hear your findings).

its true that seeds and food will be of the highest value if the present economic situation takes a sharp turn downward into oblivion, but i dont believe it will get that bad (this isnt the thread to get into that, but id be happy to explain my projections if youd like off the board). i believe the economy will pick up eventually with a new currency. having gold and silver will cover me during that upheaval, and possibly allow me to trade my way to a safe location. its peace of mind.

its impossible to tell what the future will hold, but i like to cover all of the bases. food, water, and supplies are just as important to own as gold and silver; its just that this thread focuses only on the latter.

[Lance]

As a businessman with viable interests, you shouldn't have posted this.

But here you are, spooks be damned, eh?

But I will say, old pirates and Acadians can cleanse themselves afterwards, that we are on the verge of a new way. If you come to a "radiant zone" with pockets full of gold, remember, they will take you anyway - your gold means nothing.

But when you trade that gold to eat for a day, a week, or a month, remember these words: life is free - we pay for ********.

I do not mean any disrespect, and I wish you, and all you know love, peace, and happiness.

Fear is failure and the forerunner of failure my friend. Spooks be damned in deed, if I ain't on a 'list' I've been asleep at the wheel. Gold means the difference between having a payment to keep my Permaculture functioning and NOT. It means the difference between exchanging the 1/2 bison I buy a year to feed the masses whom keep showing up at my door, and NOT feeding them (I'm partially transitioned to metals based economics).

Our accountant only accepts silver. My family (which includes the aforementioned masses of about 20) buys organic, within the '100 mile diet' cheese where I mail off silver to purchase it. Believe it or not, I just bought a book with silver online from some guy whom thought it archaic, but said okay anyways. Pretty soon, I'll be buying my smokes until I grow enough tobacco and learn to transition to a pipe, with silver as my local 'general store' is gearing up to take silver.

So, I pay for my life with the metals un-dug by others and NOT hoarded them for tomorrow. I use them and encourage others to do so. All in all it is a very stupid commodity to trade for sure. Metals are a 'free trade, globalist' commodity. LETS, and other cystems (sic) are way better for community trading http://www.monetary.org/ But at the End of the Age of Empire, we shall all do what we can to further the idea of co-designing reality.

I have palladium because it looks favourable in cold-fusion. I have platinum because it is so friggin volatile on the market. In fact, I sold 50 ounces of platinum that I bought for a few hundred bucks an ounce in 1995 for a whole lotta money (I retired from a 'job' and went into non-paying Permaculture shortly afterwords) a while ago when it hit $2000.00 an ounce.
Not a bit of a dunce move there, tug me forelock to 'meself and give kudo's to me advisors.....(sic).

To be even more honest, I own a cannabis website (or my 7 year old does anyways) and the PTw be damned the best thing to have on hand is a viable cannabis seed collection that will actually seed in your locale. I don't advertise much but I own http://cannabis-world.org/. I had a license from my guvmint but threw it out and am more than willing to take on any yokel RCMP whom try and screw around with my life. I was robbed once, at gunpoint, while FULLY licensed, in front of my then 5 year old...screw the cystem (sic).

The ONLY difference between hemp and 'marihuana' (sic) is in the breeding. They are simply different cultivars of the same species. And here is the breakdown of WHY they are illegal. We here in BC have overgrown our guvmint and be damned with 'security' man. This is a crisis and people need to know how to protect themselves with knowledge.

http://www.manitobaharvest.com/nutrition/

I still stick with get enough precious metals, focusing on the monetary metals, gold and silver, to pay your mortgage off for 3 years, your hydro payments for three years etc. Any more IS hoarding a commodity-like thing that should be in motion.

[zorgon]

Once upon a time....

In the USA it was ILLEGAL to own Gold Bullion

What IF the PTB bring back that law?

:yikes:

[Lance]

Once upon a time....

In the USA it was ILLEGAL to own Gold Bullion

What IF the PTB bring back that law?

:yikes:

I 'ain't merican'....so be it. And really, it's a transitional metal really, good for going far and wide, but almost useless at home. It's not about the legality (snicker) it's about the ability to say....buy Amero's if that's what coming into vogue with the PTw. It's the ability to travel world wide with, it's about owning a piece of history in a made up, screwed up world.

The amount of gold circulating in the US right now isn't going to become a legal issue since it is a very, very, very small number of people whom hold actual metal in the US (I'm soooo glad I'm person non-grata in that place).

This is a dead end argument for non-metals backed currency of any type. Who really cares what ANY guvmint says or does anymore? We are well beyond the tipping point for 'next?!' to happen at this point. Ask the South Africans whom got out before the nightmare of the ANC took over how they transfered their wealth...metals, the Rand has pretty much collapsed (not to te extent of the Zimbabwean currency but getting there). Ask the Russians how they preserved their welath...gold, silver and foreign currency. Etc and etc ad nauseum.

In 1991 I sponsored a 'former Yugoslavian' family to come to Canada. I recently asked my friend about the times there and she stated that she and her family lived off of a smallish gold coin collection as they were readying to leave during the NATO frickup of that place. When they got smuggled to Austria they used Gold to live for a week, when they next went to Amsterdam, they lived on Gold for a week, when they first came to Canuckistan they lived off the last coins....2 ounces of gold got them through.

It's beyond the pale of the AmerEmpire to screw with the status of metals.
The AmerEmpire is taking us all down with it and I'd rather hold metals than FRN's. Or 'loonies', in my case or instance.

[historycircus]

Lance and Bildeburger w/cheese (I love that name by the way!),

For the short term utility of precious metals, I am in total agreement with you - I think we differ in our long-range assumptions of what our futures hold.

And, you can bet your (rock) bottom dollar that the government is keeping tabs on where the gold is flowing to - are there SECURITY concerns one should consider before metals investment? For those who are taking the advice of Green and others, who have no problem in participating in a future economy based on the same principles (just different tools) of the old, are those folks opening themselves up to unpleasant government scrutiny? If China and Russia do dump the floating basket and get back to metals (which I seriously doubt they will), would that cause the U.S. government to enact limitations/restrictions/confiscations?

[Lance]

Lance and Bildeburger w/cheese (I love that name by the way!),

For the short term utility of precious metals, I am in total agreement with you - I think we differ in our long-range assumptions of what our futures hold.

And, you can bet your (rock) bottom dollar that the government is keeping tabs on where the gold is flowing to - are there SECURITY concerns one should consider before metals investment? For those who are taking the advice of Green and others, who have no problem in participating in a future economy based on the same principles (just different tools) of the old, are those folks opening themselves up to unpleasant government scrutiny? If China and Russia do dump the floating basket and get back to metals (which I seriously doubt they will), would that cause the U.S. government to enact limitations/restrictions/confiscations?

Aside from the fact that I don't live in fear, nor America and besides giving out my actual real name when I write anything...nobody has ever asked for ID or anything where I buy metals. I am friendly with the staff, we have a couple of chuckles and when I have sold metals, like my platinum, and need to show ID...I send friends (I have lived with no ID nor a bank account for 5 years now)! I have even found several metals dealers whom seem to be scoff laws at requiring ID to sell metals. Obviously I am not going to mention their locale or anything.
It is better to have metals and not need them, than to need them and not have them! Obviously no one (in their right mind...which is much different than the left!) knows exactly what is or what might occur. All I know is that I've been gearing up to at least be as responsible for my family and myself as possible. One option I looked into was metals. I value my seed collection far greater than I value my metals collection. For seeds, the above well known 'slogan' needs to be somewhat altered to
It is good to have seeds, it is better to have seeds and have a place to plant them and it is best to have seeds, a place to grow them and the knowledge of how you do so. Hmmm...not bad for making it up on the spot!

[historycircus]

So you are OK with subjecting your "friends" to the array of videocameras at such places? You would send "friends" to do that which you yourself are not willing to do?

[Lance]

So you are OK with subjecting your "friends" to the array of videocameras at such places? You would send "friends" to do that which you yourself are not willing to do?

If my friends cared about cameras, in all likelyhood they would not be my friends!....Nor would I care about them if I had ID...geesh, there is a lot of fearful folks around here. Fear IS failure.

[TAXMASTER]

i love some of the names that are posting on this forum.
lol

you talk about price manipulation on metals.....whew whee

as a futures trader generally if the stock market is up then the metals are down and visa versa. the reason is that it is the commercial money that moves in and out of markets that greatly affect the price movement.

the last few days the metals market has definately been manipulated. the stock market has dropped the last week while metals have plunged. why? the fed is manipulating the price of gold and silver keeping it depressed so that the money coming out of the market cannot go into metals and drive the price up farther until a snowball becomes a giant mass. where is the money going? they are propping up the dollar so all the money is actually funneling into the dollar and pushing the price up farther.

does this make ant sense? america is held hostage by the current bill to save the banks and everyone thinks that the safe investment is the dollar? gold should be the vehicle but because of the price manipulation, everone is scared to buy. my advice is to buy physical gold if you can get it close to spot. they cannot continue to do this. i think they are trying to suck everybody's money into the dollar before the bottom drops out....it's a sucker bet.

Namaste'

[clarkkent]

silver spot at $10 bucks???? and its impossible to get , jeez ya manipulation for sure.

when will they be able to take the lid off? when people flock to it by the thousands looking for a safe bet against hyper inflation?

man....when will it hit 1500 for gold and 150 for silver (their historical 10:1 ratio)

[ifeelthefear]

silver coins easy to exchange gold will be woth too much

[tandiwe]

Whoever is slagging off gold is hillarious..

I am holdin a few and I mean a few gold coins.

It has tanked today, down 50 dollars an ounce, and silver down a dollar an ounce.

This is NOT what its about.

Its about being able to get out of wherever you are, which is important to me. If I was just worried about bread I would be unto silver.

Anyway If you buy it for short term gains you are just indulging in casino capitalism just like the guys that got us into this situation. its a hedge.

In the UK our paper is still good for exchange. Here. Buy some euros if you wanna get out. Otherwise, you'll just be like everyone else. Whats so bad about that.

x

[The_Fool]

Ba ba ba ba babble!

[Zynox]

Friends,

I am focusing my attentions elsewhere, and some additional precious metals history and discussion information will be posted at:

~ On The Gold Trail ~
http://stclairzone.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=2347024%3ATopic%3A2414

~ love and namaste, my sisters and brothers ~

[ISIS]

Here is a link that may be useful for purchasing gold/silver etc metals

http://www.colonialresources.com/

Michael Trudeau runs Colonial Resources Inc.

A precious metal firm based in Edina, Miniapolis. He has a toll free number as well and is always willing to talk to people regarding soverenty. Michael is welll aware of whats happening and has already prepared for his family, and living in his radiant zone...:original:

(I have heard Michael speak for the past two years trying to wake people up)

Peace and Light...

ISIS

[Rocky_Shorz]

well, I've been hopping back and forth from Metal to stocks for 2 weeks...

started with 2K and its almost up to 9...

Just hopped back into silver to be ready for tomorrow...

anyone think the house will pass it?

[Anchor]

well, I've been hopping back and forth from Metal to stocks for 2 weeks...

started with 2K and its almost up to 9...

Just hopped back into silver to be ready for tomorrow...

anyone think the house will pass it?

Does this mean you dont have the physical metal on-hand? If its all paper, then what good is it?

I ordered 4Kg of 999 Silver 8 weeks ago and it took 6 weeks to arrive. Today I rang for a quote and they said 12 weeks. 12 freaking weeks, but the price isnt substantially different.

Its a game.

At least I have some raw material to try out the colloidal silver fun and games now.

A..

[GodLover]

Just read on Project Camelot home page regarding a global banking shutdown. I ordered my gold from Kitco.com almost 3 weeks ago and they tell me it'll take another week to ship. How would this be affected by the global shutdown? Would I still receive the gold after october 7th?

Thanks and God bless.

[THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR]

Greetings Peaceful Warrior,

I have no sources for metals outside the US, so hopefully someone with that information will visit and grace us on that topic. You might try the web for coin or jewelry stores in your area, I suspect they sell coins at most.

My experience is limited to international flights between the US and Costa Rica and Italy. I always travel with a few ounces of metal, both as a backup exit fund if I were ever to encounter weirdness and also because I give silver dollars as tips, to spread metal to those that may never have encountered it.

I always carry it in my carry on bag, and I have never been requested to open my bags or have them searched for the coins, and yet I have had them search for and find disposable lighters I forgot to remove. So there hasn't yet seemed to be any directed focus towards carrying coins. One consideration should always be to know the regulations of the countries one will be entering or passing through, as many have declaration limits for cash and other fiscal instruments, and I always assume these include precious metals.

Often declaration is requested if one is carrying more than $10,000 US. Interestingly, one could play a game with this, if so inclined, because the face value of a US Gold Dollar Coin is $50, versus a market value of around $900. I'm not suggesting this game be played, but I sure would like to get employers to pay in gold coins at face value!

Namaste!

__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Please be advised that I am not any form of a professional or paid investment adviser and each individual reading or posting questions or answers is responsible for their own investment decisions.

Hi Zynox,

Hey buddy sorry for the delay in replying to you, thanks so much for the info, very much appreciated!

Wadda ya think about this Bailout B******s..smoke screen to cover up the robbery or something else? Just interested to know what your thoughts/feeling are.

Words from an old 80's song.."WHERE DOES IT GO FROM HERE..IS IT DOWN TO THE LAKE I FEAR, I YA YA YI YI YA...."

Lovin your work...:original::original::original::original::or iginal:

Namaste

PEACE OUT

[Zynox]

Wadda ya think about this Bailout B******s..smoke screen to cover up the robbery or something else? Just interested to know what your thoughts/feeling are.

I feel, next week will be a most impacting experience, and that some of the best preparation would be a discerning review of a puzzle piece:

http://communityvisionblog.ning.com/forum/topic/show?id=2347170%3ATopic%3A182

We know there are many scripts running, and as we endeavor to create, it feels good to have some perspective.

~ love and namaste, my sisters and brothers ~

[Rocky_Shorz]

Does this mean you dont have the physical metal on-hand? If its all paper, then what good is it?

I ordered 4Kg of 999 Silver 8 weeks ago and it took 6 weeks to arrive. Today I rang for a quote and they said 12 weeks. 12 freaking weeks, but the price isnt substantially different.

Its a game.

At least I have some raw material to try out the colloidal silver fun and games now.

A..

I go to a local coin dealer just a few miles from home, he has been following my lead for the last few weeks... To give you an idea how happy he is, he gave me a gold piece Friday for getting him into the shop early...

I willed myself to have enough money to start the car that is a generator on the road creating electricity that can be used to power the house when it returns home...

I need a 100K to get all the pieces in production to build the prototype.

in two weeks I have 10 times what I started with...

If I can keep this ride going a few more weeks, I'll have enough...

The big question now is, what is coming Tuesday...

I jumped back into silver coins when they dropped down under 11...

It took 2 cloth bags to carry them all this time... :winksmiley02:

[clarkkent]

wow, nice. i have 70 ounces and i was lucky to get that, i dont make much and silver is super hard to come by in NY. a bag full o silver! nice!

[Rocky_Shorz]

wow, nice. i have 70 ounces and i was lucky to get that, i dont make much and silver is super hard to come by in NY. a bag full o silver! nice!

We should start knowing as the markets open up around the world how well the meeting went in the EU...

I'll be keeping a close eye on it to see if I should jump back in, or just be glad I pulled out in time...

[Rocky_Shorz]

anyone know what happened today just before 6PM....

silver dropped and then spiked right back up...

did a huge transfer just happen?

anyone know a chart with volumes?

and of course, its sitting at 11.11

In 1900, there were approximately 12 billion ounces of silver in the world. Today, that figure has fallen to about 300 million ounces of above-ground, refined silver. This means that at current prices, it would only take about four billion dollars to purchase all of the above-ground silver in the world today.

Why is there so much silver trading if there is this little actually available?

[historycircus]

I suggest that you all invest in lead, when you have capital left over from your investments of food.

[kopenhagen]

Stock went down the last few days why Gold didn't go up?
can anyone explain?

thanks

[Anchor]

I suggest that you all invest in lead, when you have capital left over from your investments of food.

And some gold paint right?

Stock went down the last few days why Gold didn't go up?
can anyone explain?

Yes - the gold spot price is manipulated. The last think Uncle Sam wants is people being motivated to buy something that is actually REAL money.

So they stop it behaving like real money.

I bought a couple of ounces of gold a while ago when it was $470, I was expecting it to be over $1400 by now, but there is such severe distortion in the market.

I am sure this too will come to light soon as more and more people realise what is going on, and then there will be more crisis, and associated knashing and wailing of teeth - particularly amongst people that only have gold in paper or digital form.

A..

[TAXMASTER]

Rocky,

I am proud of you my man, you have become quite a capitalist. There is nothing wrong in bettering your condition.

Namaste'

[Rocky_Shorz]

I still haven't jumped back in to the market, with silver and gold drying up even in the little coin shops. I think I'm holding the right thing with 2 bags of silver.

What is going to happen when news breaks that no one can cash out of their paper metal because there is nothing backing it?

[Swanny]

I bought some old English silver coins today :)
Probally a waste of money but not to worry :smoke:

[Rocky_Shorz]

didnt' take long to find the answer to my question...

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4524

CNBC reports gold paper markets could default...