What was Jesus then?

[Jonah]

Had a revealing discussion with a Christian. They believe so strongly that you can only be "saved" if you believe in Christ. They also believe that there will be nothing left once were all "judged". And that a new earth will be created.

If Christ did exist, and it seems as though he did, then just what was he?

This is not a religion bashing thread, so please do not be ignorant.

[Richard T]

He was an initiate, a descending master, who had an occult task beyond his public life.

He had to bridge matter with the ether through the astral plane to prepare for the reopening of the universal circuits, therefore paving the way for man to re-connect with reality.

Believing or not is irrelevant.

People who believe that because they believe they are a done deal, well, its part of their experience.

This universal bridge is now established and it creates great turmoil in the world of the dead, in the astral plane. They fear to lose control.

And this will become more and more obvious as mental illness becomes more and more common. It also brings about a quickening of events to enforce death over consciousness.

Now, via this bridge, the individuals can be reconnected from within from their own source.

The next evolution will be very personal and not collective, for the simple reason that dependency on beliefs will be eradicated as the individual becomes a new initiate, an ascending initiate.

Instead of being led by collective values, he will become the creator of his evolutionary condition.

This, of course, will require this individual to put to death all aspects of devolutionary consciousness that have taken residence in his psyche.

Life will start from there as opposed to existence.

So, all in all, we can say that in a way he saved humanity.

[Puppet]

The “short and simple” answer to your question is that: there is no “short and simple” answer.

It could be argued that the teaching of Jesus Christ (that is not his real name) have been changed to fit the political faction that existed at the time the King James version of the bible was written, etc.

When it all comes down to it, your belief in Christ is a matter of faith… which is a belief in something you can not prove.

I have seen a wide spectrum of data on Jesus Christ, his other names, alternate teachings that are not taught in the bible; and I have come to the following conclusion:

1. There was a Jesus Christ type figure who lived, who preformed many great deeds & miracles.
2. Some of the stories of Jesus, such as the suspect date of his birth, certain things he did, and places he traveled to. He may not have had the amount of follower, ie.12 as spoken about. Etc.
3. Jesus being the Son of God…. This is where your faith comes in. Do you believe it or don’t you? I personally can’t see any harm in believing it. If he was… then he was… if he was not… then he was not… it still doesn’t change the fact that this man did many wonderful things and deeds, and tried his best to help mankind…

[Jonah]

Richard.
A reality without the unknown?
Who fears to lose control? The dead?

Mental illness caused by fear?
in death there is no consciousness?

This bridge then was shown to us by him. So we can lead ourselves.

Forgive me. I understand what you are saying. And I believe you are correct. But it is so hard to explain to a devote christian without undermining their beliefs. I feel like such a fool.

[Richard T]

Hi there,

Why would you want to take religion away from a person?

Not everyone is at the same place within the time of their personal evolution. People need the support of their religion for the time they need it.

Religion has been a strong regulatory force to civilize a planet that would otherwise have destroyed itself long ago. Even though if yes, I know, religion has been the base for much pain and lies. But the lies come from beyond material man. And the religious are lied to according to their personal need for experience, like those who are beyond religion are lied to according to their personal need for experience.

And that will remain until we, as individuals, are beyond experience to enter evolution and eventually to enter yet another cycle.

So, we must respect people's right to religion.

Nothing is unknown. But information is not given freely.

Fear is the sole weapon that death has over man. And it is through fear that they possess his mind.

In death, there is a loss of consciousness as we know it while incarnated. It is not an absence of consciousness but a consciousness of another order. It is an active memory principle that is disconnected from the worlds of light.

It is only within matter that the connection can be made, until a body, other than the astral body, lets call it the mental body, has been completed to recuperate the full energy of the memory of the experience that we call the soul. That mental plane is the place to which the bridge leads to.

We can lead ourselves from that plane but not from this plane. What people have been calling the 'higher self'. But that is not the wishful ego.

What would you say it was that the Nazareen talked about when he referred to his father?

People don't read by vibration. They read by memorial references. So, they get things explained for them, instead of allowing their own spirit to let them see outside for the forms afforded by thoughts. And thoughts are always restricted, adjusted to memorial matter, therefore the astral sphere.

[Jonah]

Mr. T,
It is not my intention to take anything away from anyone. I ask these things for myself. And I know now why I felt so inclined to do so. Your words are very helpful to me. It was this information about the astral sphere that I was looking for.
I cant help but wonder if the point to all this is so that someday we will be able to lead ourselves from this plane forever.

Thank you.

[ThePirateKing]

Richard, great post! Thanks for that.

[Swanny]

I reckon he was a alien

[Shellie]

Wow... Secretly, I always thought Jesus was a vehicle for people between Morocco and India to talk about spirituality without getting their heads chopped off by the self-deifying rulers and snotty self-righteous Pharisees that filled the Middle East. Creating a character Jeshua who embodied the characteristics of the common mythology of the time and who could also tell stories about the truth was a good way for these people to encode their belief systems. But then it all went wrong... people took the allegorical too seriously and suddenly the unreal became "real". And 1700 years later, they still think he is "real".

[Shellie]

But I might add... studying (eastern) orthodox theology I believe will get you closest to what the original Christians believed (though it is simply the only survivor of the many beliefs).

You know, most people don't know that the orthodox believe that we are a part of God, and that we were originally like God - we were truly made in His image (read psalm 82). If/when we return to heaven, it is not a place, but a state of being... a state of joining back into one piece with God. Hell is a state of being distant from God, a separate piece.

[indakaz]

I and the father are one.

[Anchor]

I and the father are one.

Which BTW is true of each of us :)

[Merkhava]

I am a Jewish man with a fair understanding of the Tanakh (aka Old Testament).

After considering what Moses and the Prophets revealed about the coming of Mashiakh, which Christians call the Messiah or the Christ, there are many conclusions I have drawn for myself about Yeshua HaMashiakh (which converted into English is the name Jesus Christ).

To enunciate all these conclusions justly would take a book, but I will summarize a few significant items that I had to seriously consider as a Jewish man.

Yeshua is the physical incarnation in human form of the infinite Almighty God.

In our Jewish tradition, we say God is Ein Sof, meaning He is the omnipresent Spirit so infinite and so exalted that He is beyond full description and beyond comprehension. We believe that He is Love in absolute perfection. Since God is Love, His personal care for the human race and His jealous longing towards each one of us individually is so strong, that the Most High God, the Creator Spirit of all that exists, made Himself into a Man in order to be near us and become like us.

It is a great wonder of the Universe how that God made humanity in His image at the time of Creation.

But it is a much greater wonder that God made Himself into One of us. He focused His infinity into the enclosed flesh of man, being born into this world as a human being just like each of us. By doing so, He experienced everything in this world, just as we do now, becoming sympathetic and uniquely attached to us through the experience of His own human condition.

The prophet Isaiah wrote about 700 years before the birth of Yeshua this prophecy:

For us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder, and His name will be “Wonderful Counselor - Mighty God - Father of Eternity - Prince of Peace” Isaiah 9:6

The prophet revealed to us that this Son who is born to us is God Himself - the Eternal Father come in the flesh.

So what is Jesus?

He is the focused physical incarnation of the infinite Almighty God. He is the solid proof of just how much God loves us – so much so that He became One of us.

Why?

So that we could have the opportunity to become like Him – One with Him. He in us and we in Him so that the “I AM THAT I AM” who met Moses at the burning bush becomes ALL in all.

Regards,
Merkhava

[oxjmaups2005xo]

i believe jesus was a master of preaching the way the truth and the light blah blah blah stuff as in the way to make humanity a better species spiritually do i believe he was a god hell no and that goes for any extraterrestrial or humanoid thingamajig anywhere because a human or spirit anything cannot hold the power and body of the whole universe and dimensions into there being that why we have gods that love us unconditionally so we dont have to make things so complex:mfr_omg:

[stefaan]

The documentary channel National Geographic have some good documentaries on Jezus.
In one they search for the historical jezus. They found not less than 6 candidates.
Jezus is probably a myth, derived from the lifes of those 6, mixed with some old beliefs, Mithras (persian), Dyonisis (roman)..., eastern beliefs (budhism), beliefs from ancient egypt, etc.

Remember there were 37 gospels. Only 4 thoroughly edited versions remained, where accepted (canon). The rest came to be apocrypha. This had more to do with politics than religion or truth.

The significance of the biblical Jezus should stay personal. Even when there was no real historical figure corresponding to the biblical Jezus, the value of the stories remains.

[Frank Samuel]

Jesus after years of trying to understand the value of this figure in my life, he became one of the keys for defining my relationship to God. However as humans often do the stories are often blown out of proportion, and the real essence of the teachings in my humble opinion where so much more than any Holy book could describe. For me the real Key figures where his mother, his brothers , sisters and other figures hidden from the pages of the Bible. Several controversial myth where created to make Jesus a God similar to the Gods known to the Romans and the Greeks . Of course Jesus did not fit the typical God image of the time. So what do you do as a Disciple of Jesus with 3 yrs. or less of teachings and understanding, you pray and hope for the best.
The core of what became the central theology 500 yrs. after the resurrection of Jesus was more politically motivated. One example Jesus Birth. Who was the biological Father of Jesus ? Did Mary have other children ?
Why is very little known about Jesus chilhood and the realizations and revelations he had as a child? Here is where Jesus mother and brothers and sisters play a major role. Why was Jesus kill ? Was Jesus supposed to die 3 yrs. after startting his ministry ? What would had happen if Jesus live into his old age ? What would the interpretation of the message be if Jesus
would had marry and bear children? These quetions in my search for answers became the key to unlocking the secrets of Jesus value in my life. The myth and the historical Jesus. 2000 yrs. of the history of christianity. why is there so many denominations and interpretations? 2000 yrs. of myths and distorted views...

[Jma]

Jesus was the son of God who died for us to live (wipe our bad karma)

Was any of you born of a virgin birth?

Don´t be ignoramuses.

[Frank Samuel]

JMA I carry that same picture of Jesus derived from the shroud of Turin.
I do not mean to offend your belief !!! I have study the life of Jesus , and like you I have my belief. Is all part of our spiritual developement. Seek and you will find, knock and the answer will be given. This is all that I am doing.

God Bless You JMA.
Peace and love to you:wub2::wub2::wub2::biggrin2:

[Richard T]

Sorry, but no one will take over someone else's karma.

And the karma of the world, as well as the karma of the individuals, still need to be burned. And its no small thing.

@Merkhava
What is your view on Cain's wife?

Is it not interesting that the Jewish tradition gives precedence to the mother but that in the Adamic case, we start of with the precedence of a man?

Because, of course, Cain for one had to find his wife among those who were already there when Adam and family left the garden.

[stefaan]

Was any of you born of a virgin birth?
I don't want to go into discussion, but...
The virgin birth idea was very common in those days.
Mithras was said to be born of a virgin mother.
Dionysus was... and you can find dozens of them.
Here you find a list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_virgin_births)

Virgin can be interpreted in many ways.

[Frank Samuel]

Stefan you are very wise.. symbolism is part of the secret code of the bible.
Practical questions leads to logical answers.:biggrin2:
Thanks Stefan.

[Jonah]

Mr. T,

Is it that perhaps the Nazareen talk about ascension when referring to his father?

[Theresa]

Religion is fear based and fantasy. Bold statement, I know, but if one begins the process of spiritual PRACTICE, not just rote ritualistic behavior, true spiritual awareness begins to develop, and we begin to see the bible as metaphor and teaching at best, and parts of it as deliberate misinformation.

I have been in ministry training, was raised Catholic and now channel Jesus~Holy Spirit, the latter of which offers very definite teachings which I have transcribed as a book and dvd. Am I an expert? no, but I AM living a life of spiritual PRACTICE. It takes WORK to ascend. a LOT of it, which is why people mostly want to fall back on what's already been done, and then argue about it. The only way to enlightenment is doing the hard work of it OURSELVES.

That being said, the cornerstone of spiritual awakening is SELF RESPONSIBILITY-becoming totally responsible that we are the creators of ALL of our experience. The next step is being willing to ask the Holy Spirit, our higher self, GOD, etc, to HELP us FORGIVE OURSELVES for making up beliefs of unworthiness that are manifesting the stuff we dont' like. Its that simple. The Jesus I know says that this is all we need to know to spiritually awaken, and create HEAVEN HERE, not in some "fantasy" place with some "father" GOD. WE ARE GOD. Here are the two steps:

1. total, ruthless responsibility for being the creator of ALL of our experience
2. being willing to forgive ourselves for making up beliefs of unworthiness

Easy? Not on your life-especially the "taking responsibility" part, in case you haven't noticed. :wink2:

In fact, if one reads the bible from this level of truth, it says that Jesus could NOT heal EVERYONE because of their UNBELIEF!! What weren't they believing? that they were WORTHY of being healed.

so....consider taking on a path of mastery. It will be a DOING path of SURRENDER and SERVICE. Then you are LIVING the WORD, not just arguing about it....

www.forgiveandawaken.com

~LOVE PEACE JOY TRUTH IS ALL THAT IS ALL~

[Richard T]

Hello Vorian's Revenge. Here is what I see in relation to this question.

There are two movements of the energy related to this.

Descending energy and ascending energy.

The bulk of individuals experimenting within a material shell are associated to ascending energy. Rare instances of avatars of descending energy appear, from time to time, to establish adjustment conditions that change the direction of a consciousness limited by the condition of the experience.

An ascending condition results from a cpntrol of information at a point located between the materialized entity and the universal origin of that same entity, located outside of space, in a location in time.

The filtering of information has for purpose the maintenance of consciousness in a lesser realm. If it was not done this way, no consciousness would accept to remain in action and in essence in the gross material field of dense energy.

The intelligences thus invested in material works are used to increase the level of science of the energy on this outer plane, the material plane,

These intelligences are organized in legions, or hierarchies, according to the universal status of the filter intelligence that allows information to be transferred to the material brain, allowing for various levels of sciences as they are recorded in universal archives.

The ability to travel in the world of those archives being dependant on the universal status of the universal source of that individual materialized intelligence.

Every materialized intelligence is linked to a unique universal source that is perfect in its essence. Yet, every ascending intelligence, invested by the source within the material plane is limited by the intermediary, some sort of cosmic ego, who adjusts the energy to the works required in the material plane.

A descemding order of intelligences is an order that has not segregated a fraction of its energy into a permanent materialized terminal. This means that when such an intelligence descends by incarnation, it retains its right to know absolutely within the time of the source.

These intelligences are the great initiates of the various epochs who had instantaneous access to universal science and carried the power of the verb, which is the science of the sound over atomic consciousness.

But they are not ascending, in the sense that they have no pact with ascending energy, but only have an agenda in relation with worlds in ascension.

Ascention means that the universal intelligence at the source of life and consciousness of the intelligence invested in matter wants to recuperate the fruit of its creation, and rapatriate the energy of the exprience it invested in matter over the aeons, the sum of which is the energy of what we call the soul.

There are orders of intelligences that are opposed to this process since the result of it will change the evolutionary curve of the universe and they risk losing ascendency over vast number of races, in the cosmos, who are kept under the veil of information wtholding, effectively controlling their rate of evolution at a lower pace than what would otherwise be quickened, were they allowed to tap into universal science.

This movement results from the addition of a new universal principle over the two original principles that were intelligence and will.
This third principle is love.

And love is not yet a universally recognized principle. It first infused on this planet. And this is the curve ball that changes things.

It changes things because love is a universal principles that rendes free.

Whereas, will is a universal principle that binds.

Intelligence and will are the equivalent of what we perceive as good and evil. Love has nothing to do with good and evil. Love gives what is required using both intelligence and will.

Intelligence and will, good and evil, are the forces that captivated the materialized intelligences as they were infused in the material sphere. They are spirituality and domination, necessary forces in the evolution of the science of energy in this sphere.

The infusion of this new Aleph, love, that renders free, will make it so that in a certain future, a number of men will work on the various planes of reality to allow information transfers to races in order for them to speed up their evolution and increase their vibrational rate, which is necessary to transport consciousness over that vast spaces of universal archives.

There are a number of such races who are aware of this process, as they have been instructed by this order of intelligences infused on this globe. This race is what has been called the Adamic race.

At the same time, there are countless other orders of intelligences whose origin is not that of the Adamic race and who are in charge, so to speak, of the evolution of material realms, and who possess a science of energy that is so far ahear than what man can imagine that were they to materialize to man, man would have no other choice than to kneel and pray them as gods.

They would have no means to resist, because of the weak nature of the soul.

These hierarchies and their subserviant races have invested energy on this globe and have a multitude of invested associated intelligences. The bulk of humanity.

And they vehemently oppose the coming of man as an avatar of its source.

Man's assention is the reconnection of the infused intelligence in matter to the universal source, which means the construction of a personal bridge between the finite and the infinite. Something that requires a total deconstruction of psychology to allow the intelligence to construct the reality it wills, in accordance with the will of the source.

The source is what the Nazareen referred to as the father.

Ascending energy is the energy of the soul, basicaly the energy of memory that is secluded within the form, the form being the memory that is recalled and the energy being the spirit trapped behind the veil of memory.

Rendering free means the destruction of the form so that the spirit is free to travel the axis of the ray that connects all the planes of reality it intersects, ray of creation that is him, in total, and a multidimentional reality.

The next cycle will be related to the destruction of the form to allow the spirit to create forms that are in harmony with the source and its plan, rather than a form, like today, a civilization, that is adapted to the need of the soul for more experience.

If the spirit breaks free from the form, bridging between the memory of the soul and a sub-plane of matter that is free from astral influences, Luciferian forces lose power over it, because the world of the soul is Luciferian in essence.

Therefore, the real battleground is the human mind, and this is why this planet is so important and why so many souls seek experience here, as a totally new paradigm is about to be created.

As strange as it may sound, this planet will one day be called the planet of love. It is from here that its infusion will spread. And those men, still allowed to incarnate here, will trade the science of love for the science of energy, and quicken the ascending movement of materialzed entity, since the science of love is superior in vibration to the science of energy.

[371]

I think it is interesting that Jesus repeatedly said in the Bible "I am the son of Man", not the "Son of God" that people commonly say he said. I guess the implication is that all man are the sons of God. Man was created to serve god, Jesus came to serve man (not in the Twilight Zone way, in fact the opposite).

[HallieBallie]

Pastor Raay Hagins PhD The 1st Creed of Nicea 325 AD part.1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-nl5adjqZw

There are 5 parts of it.

In this exciting informative lecture, Pastor Ray Hagins does what very few Pastors would dare to do. He methodically takes you step by step through the circumstances that led to the need for this meeting to take place and explains how the concept of Jesus the Christ was created in 325 A.D. The First Council of Nicaea, held in Nicaea in Bithynia (In present -- day Turkey), convened by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in 325, was the first ecumenical (1) conference of bishops of the Christian Church, and most significantly resulted in the first uniform Christian doctrine, called the Nicene Creed. With the creation of the creed, a precedent was established for subsequent "general (ecumenical) councils of Bishop's (Synods) to create statements of belief and canons of doctrinal orthodoxy -- the intent being to define unity of beliefs for the whole of Christendom.

This is the council that created the concept of Jesus the Christ and it was patterned after Heru (Horus) from the Ancient Kemetic (Egyptian) mythology. Ausar (Osiris), Auset (Isis) and Heru (Horus) were the first holy trinity and Joseph, Mary and Joseph was patterned after this. The history behind the creation of Jesus the Christ has been hidden from most Christians on purpose because it was created by the Roman Catholic Church. They have never wanted the truth to get out.

Learn why the Council of Nicaea occurred and the results of the Council such as the creation of Christmas from the ancient festivals of Saturnalia and the celebration of the birth of Mithra (the Persian Sun god).

[Richard T]

One question then 371:

What is man, ultimately?

[371]

One question then 371:

What is man, ultimately?


Children of God ?


EDIT- ahhh... I see Richard... good point

[Shellie]

Stefaan: the original meaning of "virgin" was "young, unmarried maiden". It had nothing to do with what we call virginity today.

It was common for girls to be married off at the time they became women- at the bat mitzva (age 12). So if there really was a virgin Mariam who gave birth to a son names Jeshua, then all that means is that a 11-12 year old got pregnant and had a son.

[Merkhava]

The highest Law of the Universe is the Law of Love. It is the foundation upon which everything exists.

In the Torah, this was enunciated explicitly to Moses at Mt. Sanai during the 40 days he was alone with God. When he returned to the children of Israel, he taught us the Law of Love as God had taught him, which we as a national people have then shared with the rest of the world through our written oracles over the centuries.

We Jewish people understand that the first and greatest of all commandments is:

You will love the Lord your God from the deepest center of your soul, with all the power of your physical body’s strength, with all the intelligence of your mind, with all the emotional passion of your heart, with all the voluntary free will of your own personal sovereignty.

The second highest law is like it:

You will love your neighbor as much as you love yourself.

In fact, Yeshua HaMashiakh (Jesus Christ) demonstrated the standard of the second highest commandment before and after He said,

“You will love one another the way I have loved you.”

-------------------------------------

These two elaborations of the Law of Love – love God and love your neighbor - are the foundations upon which everything was built. Moses and the Prophets and the Apostles of Israel spent their remaining lives teaching us how to make love the basis of our lives.

The Decalogue (Ten Commandments) is a further practical elaboration of how to love. The beginning four commandments describe how we are to love God. The remaining six describe how we are to love our neighbor. Maimonides later wrote down the elaborations of the Jewish Oral Tradition from the Torah 613 commandments. Listed in the Torah are 365 of them which are positive admonitions how to live a loving life, and 248 which are restraints against negative human behaviors that foster selfishness and hatreds.

Wherever love reigns in the hearts of people, there will be harmony and life and the rise of great civilization and peace among peoples, communities and nations. Love having supremacy in the heart of a man allows him to live as a king since he begins to possess within himself the illuminating essence of God – because God is Love.

Love is not a superficial emotional or erotic feeling that blows one way then another way like the tall grass bending in the changing winds. This is a common misunderstanding among many people. True love – the kind of Love that is holy and divine – it is a choice of our free will that leads us to an action of good. Most times it is hard to love because it is always draining and usually thankless when done for the benefit of immature and selfish people. But when we engage in selfless acts of love, we eventually feel good about ourselves because we are acting as God made us to be.

Love is giving of oneself for the benefit and good of another, giving in such a way that it costs or drains you of something out of yourself, and you expect nothing back in return for giving it. This is the kind of Love that is supernatural. It goes against our usual selfish human nature because to engage in acts of divine love is a super-human feat. This is the way God loves us. This is also the demand of the Law upon all of us. The standard is perfection and we are all accountable for it under the Law.

Those who break the highest Law of the Universe - who violate divine love - such violators have committed the highest crime there is. To do anything, to say anything, to even think any thought that is in anyway a violation of the divine standard of love is a crime against God. This is what SIN is. It is treason of the highest order against the Kingdom of Heaven. Sin is a personal declaration of war against God. It was this kind of rebellion that brought the Fall of Man and lost our personal and intimate right to converse and walk beside God Himself as Adam HaRishon did in the Garden. It was this violation of love that brought death into our life. The prophet Ezekiel wrote the declaration of the Lord, " All souls are Mine. The soul that sins will die."

We understand that anyone who breaks the law will be arrested, charged and if found guilty, then they will be sentenced according the sanctions demanded by the law. This is what we call justice.

God is Love. God is also the King of kings and Lord of lords, who reigns over all the Universe by His Law. He can not break His own Law because to do so would make Him become an unholy arbitrary tyrant. For God to violate His Law is for Him to violate what He is, since God is Love. God perfectly keeps His Law and must consistently hold Himself to account for everything that is demanded by the Law. He must be just. He must also hold everyone else in His creation to the same accountability to the Law of Love.

So… how can a loving and just God forgive sinful mankind without breaking His Law? How can He acquit for high crimes without becoming unjust for doing so? How can God condemn Satan, but let mankind go free, and then not be accused of an unholy double standard?

This is why the Savior came down among us into our world. He came to rescue us. He provided the one and only legal way for us to find acquittal without annulling the Divine Law of Heaven. That is why Yeshua said,

"I AM the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

It is like the Judge himself, after justly passing a death sentence upon me for my high crimes, came down off the bench. He stands beside me and says the Law must be satisfied for the sake of Justice, but if I am willing, He will allow the death sentence to fall on Himself instead of upon me. But He cannot do it for me against my will. I have to personally and publicly ask Him to do it so that the Court of Justice sees that I have voluntarily and freely asked the Judge to bear upon Himself the demanded sanction of the Law and final consequence of my guilty crimes.

So you have to ask yourself: Are you guilty of selfishness or even of hatred?

Have you violated Love? Can you claim perfection of Love and stand innocently? Will you stand on your own merits when you are held to account in Heaven’s Court of Justice and every one of your deeds, your words and your thoughts are publicly revealed to the entire Universe?

How will you answer the Savior?

Regards,
Merkhava

[100thmonkey]

To me, Jesus was just a human, like the rest of us.
His story is irrelevant and unnecessary. :winksmiley02:

We don't need to know about his life or his mission or his purpose or his beliefs or his origins.
We don't need to promote those to anybody else, because they don't need it either.
We don't need his teachings, because he didn't preach anything that hadn't already been taught, or that we couldn't realise for ourselves.
We don't need salvation, because there's no eternal hell to be saved from.
We don't need his payment, because there is no debt.
We don't need him to take our karma, because karma doesn't work that way.
We don't need to fear a judgement day, because there is no ultimate Judge, beside ourselves.

We only need to live our own life. :wink2:

[Frank Samuel]

Hey Hallie thanks for the info on the council of Nicea. As we see here people as people have a hard time agreeing on anything. Oh do we get upsept when somebody does not see things our way. Myself included but ;such is life !!!
7 billion interpretations of the truth. :wub2::wub2::wub2::wub2:
Peace and Love to all :biggrin2:

[Jma]

Merkhavah Jesus was also known as the Lion of Judah, belonging to the tribe of Judah.
Do all Jewish people belong to one of the twelve tribes?

[Richard T]

Love:
When man enters the new cycle, he must be aware that love is for his neighbor, not for the invisible.

When the contact is made, and that he is put through his initiation in face of reality, he will learn to hate the invisible, and then will he realize that love is not an energy to be used for the invisible.

And the more he will love the invisible, the more he will be burned in his intiation.

If man does not realize, somewhere along his experience, that love of the invisible opens the door to domination from the planes over his consciousness, he will never snap the right to freedom and will remain a small creature.

Which brings me to the second point.

Hell.

Hell meant <world of the dead> and not a sea of eternal fire.

Man is captive of the world of the dead, therefore, man is a walking dead. That is what he must be saved from.

If not, then he will have to move on and continue his evolution on another planet.

The dominion of death over this globe is nearing its end. This is cause for much trouble in the astral of the planet. And its repercussions are the various events, both in the organization of domination structures within humanity, and in the body of the planet itself.

The magnetic pole reversal that is to come will change the polarity of the energy that traverses the globe and the face of the planet will be changed as its surface reconfigures to the reversed movement of energy that imprints within the electro magnetic currents.

Hell is the psychological condition of a humanity that has been forced into powerlessness.

It is the condition through which the philosophers have raised ignorance and human weaknesses high on a golden plate, praising those open doors to manipulation as a desirable and distinctive condition of the human race.

Eternity is not a quantity of time, it is a location in time. And it is outside of the level of energy where death reside, for whom time is a distance.

I agree that there is no need to promote anything to anyone.

On the other hand, each stone will be upturned.

[Merkhava]

To me, Jesus was just a human, like the rest of us.
His story is irrelevant and unnecessary. :winksmiley02:

We don't need to know about his life or his mission or his purpose or his beliefs or his origins.
We don't need to promote those to anybody else, because they don't need it either.
We don't need his teachings, because he didn't preach anything that hadn't already been taught, or that we couldn't realise for ourselves.
We don't need salvation, because there's no eternal hell to be saved from.
We don't need his payment, because there is no debt.
We don't need him to take our karma, because karma doesn't work that way.
We don't need to fear a judgement day, because there is no ultimate Judge, beside ourselves.

We only need to live our own life. :wink2:

If you live your own life without love, is it a life worth living? Is it a life of any worth to others?

[100thmonkey]

If you live your own life without love, is it a life worth living? Is it a life of any worth to others?I wasn't saying we don't need love in our life. I just don't think we need Jesus to have it. :wub2:
If we want to be happy we need love, sure, but love can also bring pain.

If we don't have love though, our 'true self', our eternal spirit, still gleans experience from that life.
Any life, good, bad, happy, sad, is all Experience, and all has it's place in the evolution of our eternal spirit.
Of course I'm talking from a perspective of reincarnation, which not everybody accepts, especially since Jesus supposedly was against it according to the bible (although I've heard otherwise).

[milk and honey]

Jesus the 'Son of Man' became Jesus 'the Christ' (the Sun / Son of God) because he opened and surrendered to the inner light, called in the western scripture "Christos" and in the east, "Krishna" and "Buddha". To understand his teachings it's important above all to appreciate that we too can become Christ and ascend as Jesus did. Essentially, that was his message. Jesus was the wayshower of the path to spiritual oneness, and ascension... which is the ultimate "realm shift" that everyone is now talking about, only Jesus taught an individual "shift" in consciousness NOT a mass ascension event in the future.

He was a true spiritual revolutionary in that regard, nearly 2000 years before the 'space brother' chanellings (deliberately) misconstrued many metaphysical concepts. ie.. a "mass ascension" in 2012 and/or a "beam me up scotty" UFO type "rapture", among others.

Jesus also pronounced a judgement for the end of the age that would separate souls on earth according to their vibration or "works". For some it will be the final judgement. He foresaw the return of the pent up karma of the ages (sown during a 'great cycle' of ~ 25,800 yrs) and prophesied the personal and planetary destruction it could bring. Prophecy from the spiritual source has always been an opportunity for souls to change direction. If it can be clearly seen that a certain course of action is leading humanity into destructive karmic outcomes, then at the risk of being accused of causing that destruction, a prophet must sound a warning. Jesus and others have given necessary prophecies at certain intervals yet ingrates accuse them of actually causing disaster by doing so. Who might accuse and why? Only those trying to deflect responsibility.

One timely prophecy was the judgement of the fallen angels on planet Earth.

Jesus said, "For judgement I AM come". Fallen angels have been incarnate on this planet for ages but their time is now up. Jesus identified some of them and as part of his mission, he spoke the judgement in the physical plane which gave them all a final opportunity during the age of pisces to come into alignment with the law of love. To paraphrase the law... "Give up your abuse of power and control of the masses and serve the light in my own as all are required to do". Millions of fallen angels have incarnated on planet Earth during this time, but same as 2000 years ago, Jesus' person and message have been rejected and distorted beyond recognition. (See below.) And their power games have continued in every sector of life.

The handwriting is on the wall and as the karma of ages is ripening, the only solution as always is in a change of heart by a sufficient number of souls to mitigate the worst of it. We must each identify and surrender the machinations of the ego and embrace the presence and guidance of the higher-Self. That is the necessity of the hour -- as late as it now is -- and that is exactly what Jesus taught.

Essentially Jesus taught that the "Christ" is the real spiritual -Self within each person and that we need to accept it in order to overcome the egoic mind, which he called the 'carnal mind' and 'anti-christ'. To paraphrase him:

"The kingdom of heaven (the consciousness of God) is within you."

And again...

"He that is in you (the christ-consciousness)
is greater than he that is in the world (the egoic mind and the false hierarchy who fully embody it )

And...

"No man ascends to the Father except he that descends from the Father."

Jesus was not only referring to himself when he said that. ^^^ He was talking about all incarnate spiritual beings including ourselves. Our souls have descended from the spiritual plane into a lower plane and state of consciousness therefore each soul can ascend back to the spiritual plane to re-unite with the Father (the I AM Presence) but only if we're willing to sift our own consciousness and separate the ego chaff from the spiritual wheat.

The Book of John identifies the good 'wheat':

"That was the true light which lighteth every man which cometh into the world".

John was not only referring to the man Jesus but to the Christ light within him which is the same light within us. It is the guiding light within all souls who incarnate in the material plane. So if we would follow in Jesus footsteps all the way to the ascension then we must awaken to the same inner light as he did and let it speak and act as it moves us. Intuition is our guide.

"The works that i do ye shall do also,
and greater works shall ye do because i go unto my father"

Greater "works" are possible if we become conscious of (and fully realise) the same God consciousness which Jesus realised in himself. He mastered the flow of spirit through his chakras and subtle bodies and if we walk the spiritual path, so can we. My understanding is that, for tens of thousands of years, Jesus' mission was (and still is) to reconnect us with the Christ flame in our hearts which is a living connection to our true source.

Most souls on Earth have lost contact with this inner reality and hierarchy's solution was to send Jesus as a world teacher to literally resuscitate the souls of the entire human race. At least all those who accept the impulse of love within ... whether or not they make the outer association with Jesus is less important.

When he told us we are his brothers and sisters -- "joint heirs" in Christ -- Jesus was saying "We Are One". He had personally realised that oneness and this is what he meant when he said:

"Whatsoever ye do unto the least of these my brethren, ye do also unto me". (because We Are One). That sounds axiomatic today but it wasn't ~2000 yrs ago. None of his teachings were understood except by very few.

If we would do 'greater works' and if we would ascend at the conclusion of this life (like Jesus did) then we too must take the same spiritual initiations. Jesus didn't do it all for us as the false pastors would have us believe, but he left his footprints in the sand as The Way to inner source. His initiations are ours too but we won't necessarilly fulfill them in the same way that he did. The outer karmic circumstances will be different for everyone but the interior path presents the same initiations. Some of the main ones are:

1) baptism = the "immersion" of our souls in the cleansing fires of inner-spirit.

The fundamentalist 'christian' church has falsely taught that the ritual of immersion in water is the totality of "baptism". "Now you are saved, dry your hair". Well, it is a fine ritual as far as it goes but they teach that 'baptism' fulfills the main requirement in a simplistic formula for being "saved" and "born again". Yet baptism by water is only the outer symbol of an inner process of soul purification by 'immersion' in inner-spirit. And this transformation can take a lifetime or more to achieve not merely a single confession or ritual.

2) Crucifixion.

The vertical bar of the cross represents the Divine Will of the spiritual- Self descending into the incarnate soul. The horizontal bar divides it where it enters matter and this represents the human will. If the soul can surrender and align the human will with the Will of Spirit then the soul can overcome all death consciousness (all negative aspects of the psyche) and emerge victorious from the material plane to return to spirit.

The fundamentalist 'christian' church teaches that the human blood sacrifice of Jesus is essential to the salvation of humanity and thereby that Jesus paid the price for all past and future sins. This concept of a "vicarious at-one-ment" is patently false. Our souls can only be at-one with the Christ if they are vibrationally changed and purified by that spirit. It is a oneness of vibration; a spiritual process which Jesus' human blood cannot accomplish. The idea that a spiritual God needs to be appeased by blood is a disgrace and a hangover from the worst days of Atlantis.

A one time ritual of baptism or a deathbed confession that "my sins are forgiven through the blood of Jesus" simply won't cut it. It is a false prescription that does not in the least, resemble Jesus' teaching on the salvation (the self-elevation) of the soul.

The "blood" (of Christ) symbolises the spiritual light which can flow into each soul from source. It is a metaphor suggesting the "blood" as the essential carrier of the elements of life to every cell in the body, only the body in this case is the Universal Christ in which we all share our being. The "blood" is the river of life and love which changes whatever it touches with life giving creative energy.

The Universal Christ spoke through Jesus saying:

"This is my body (the Universal Christ-consciousness)
which is broken for you" (which is individualised in you all)

"This is my blood (My light essence which nourishes every cell -- each of you -- in my Universal 'Body")
Drink ye all of it." (and live)

Jesus is an ascended spiritual being. If we calm the mind and go within in meditation we can recieve spiritual inspiration. When we commune with the inner Christ presence we commune with Jesus because we are one at that level. He can help us to understand his true teachings and our own psyche so that we too can be washed by the "blood of the lamb" (the inner- Christ Self) and the "word of his testimony" -- the "living word" which is the flow of the spiritual lifeforce within.

The Christ Self is the mediator between the I AM Presence in spirit and the wounded soul trapped in the re-incarnational cycles of time and space. There is no other way to transcend the matrix except through that real- Self.

The Universal Christ spoke through Jesus saying:

"I AM the Way the Truth and the Life
no man (no soul) goeth unto the Father ( none can return to the I AM in Spirit)
but by Me (the Christ -- the mediator -- within All).


3) The Resurrection.

The initiation of the resurrection symbolises the raising of the vibratory rate of consciousness. All fallen aspects of the psyche... greed, envy, hate, fear, arrogance, deciet, etc, are seen for what they are... "dead" vibrations of the ego which only "life" vibrations of spirit can transform and integrate.

The lower- ego was created in ignorance so it is ultimately unreal. It can be proven unreal by soul contact with the Christ flame which separates the (real) soul from the (unreal) ego and consumes it "by fire". The all seeing eye of Christ- consciousness, sees all that vibrates below it and dissolves it. This continual process is the "resurrection of the dead" energy locked within the lower matrix of the ego.

4) The Ascension.

When the soul has balanced her karma and transmuted the lower nature (by loving service to others and meshing with the Christ Mind) then the ascension is not too far away. By walking the initiatic path of self transformation, the soul achieves immortality by fusing to the I AM Presence in spirit... "no more to go in or out" of matter.

This is the resurrection and ascension in the light for each soul. There are many steps on the path, and like Jesus we must take them all to prove the supremacy of spirit over matter.

[whitecrow]

It's refreshing beyond words to see that people really can discuss this question without hostility. So many good posts. Everyone has brought good points to the table.

I don't think that the person we call Jesus actually existed. I'll put that another way: I don't think the biography we have inherited in the Bible is a factual account of a real person. I think those stories are based on a real person, possibly several people, but so many myths and legends are attached to this person that it's impossible to separate fact from embellishment.

I haven't yet used the word truth. I do think the Bible is true, or rather that it reveals profound truths.

The Bahá'is have an important concept in their theology, that of Manifestations. In Bahá'i belief, the Prime Source has conveyed certain key truths to mankind repeatedly, through Manifestations. Manifestations were actual people, like that mysterious individual we call Jesus. Buddha was one. Krishna was one. So was Moses. Bahá'is recognize Muhammad also, and acknowledge that many Manifestations are not known to history. There are those who would include Quetzalcoatl, Deganawidah (teacher of Hiawatha) and White Buffalo Calf Woman in this category. In the Bahá'i teachings, these were followed in modern times by The Báb and Bahá'u'llah.

The importance of the concept lies in the fact that these teachings continue in the form of the world's great religions, and that they all teach the same rules of conduct. Love God. Love each other. Treat each other as holy. Everything else is either commentary or social teachings appropriate to the culture to which it was revealed.

[100thmonkey]

...Hell meant <world of the dead> and not a sea of eternal fire.

Man is captive of the world of the dead, therefore, man is a walking dead. That is what he must be saved from.

If not, then he will have to move on and continue his evolution on another planet.Richard, I think you are closest to my own perspectives here, although you seem to have more of an in depth understanding of it.

On the point of what man 'must' be saved from though... I still don't think it's 'necessary', just nicer.
I do think it is a default of existence however.

I see our spirit as like a Yo-Yo, coming from the One, being placed under layers and layers of ignorance (becoming as the 'walking dead' as you say), yet inevitably, unstoppably, returning through those layers to the One, by virtue of Experience (that thing the One most desires).

It's an ingenious and foolproof method of the One-ness experiencing itself, sending a part of itself out there and knowing it will boomerang back after it's mission is accomplished. We can't mess it up if we wanted to.

Even if someobody purposely tries to be as 'evil' as possible, or is naturally as lost in selfish darkness as anyone possibly could be, that's still just an experience, for that lifetime.
Our higher self (that part of the Oneness sent away from itself) will take the experience on board and learn from it. The Oneness desires such things, therefore we do too. The darkness needs to be explored as much as the light.


Experience need not be sought by us though, it just happens as a natural part of life.
Our physical senses pick it up all the time. We live it every day. Things happen to us as part of living, and by nature we can't help but learn from those experiences, whether we are seeking or not.

So, awareness comes by default.

Eventually we'll reach a point of curiosity though, in this life or the next (or the next, etc.) and try to accelerate the process.
Then we are Seekers, and so here we are... :original: ...looking to take the next step.

Ultimately we realise that love is the path upwards, hate is the path downwards, and make our decisions from there. Love is nicer, and I think the recognition of that is what we call our conscience. It's the signpost in the darkness that points the way. That's why I say we don't need Jesus to point the way, we already have the internal compass.

I don't think it matters if we miss the boat on the next ascension wave through the galaxy, or whatever, though.
It'd be kind of a shame, seeing as it's so close and all, but we'll catch one eventually, in another millenium, or another galaxy.

We've got eternity to figure it all out, and ultimately there's nothing to fear. :sweatdrop:

[Richard T]

I agree, every person is exactly where he is supposed to be when he is.

The ego might not agree or like it, never being told what or why, but it still is so.

[Jonah]

Mr. T,

With the will of love can we not connect with those races to help them ascend even now? If they are within the astral plane are they not visible? If these races are not capable of being one with the source in they way that we are then it is because they have been denied the allowance of knowledge just as we are. Knowing this, can we not see as they see? Are we not in a similar situation therefore connected?
Isn't that seeing them in one form or another?

[Merkhava]

Jesus the 'Son of Man' became Jesus 'the Christ' (the Sun / Son of God) because he opened and surrendered to the inner light, called in the western scripture "Christos" and in the east, "Krishna" and "Buddha".

I am aware of this viewpoint and the many other ideas you have described in your post. What a long conversation it would be to discuss every point of detail! But I will keep it short and deal with the first you offered, since it is the most important.

I have considered the New Age interpretation that espouses the “Christ-consciousness” and for my own serious consideration, I have to reject it. I think you have it backwards. A son of man didn’t become a god, but rather, the Almighty God (the Logos) became the Son of Man.

I defer to Apostle John, who was the last survivor of The Twelve, who wrote:

“In the beginning (before there was Time) was the Word (the Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. He was present originally with God. All things came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.

And the Word became flesh (incarnate) and tabernacled (pitched His tent of flesh awhile) among us; and we saw His majestic glory, such radiance as an only begotten Son receives from His Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:1-3, 14)

The question is “What is Jesus?”

It is of utmost importance to us each individually to get the answer right, because it speaks to the heart of such matters as:

1) Where did I come from?
2) Why am I and why here?
3) What will become of me?

I accept as fact that the Lord God (YHVH - Adonai Eloheynu) really exists. I also accept as hard fact that the Law of God actually operates in the Universe upon the foundation of Love. I realize for myself that I am responsible and accountable to God under His lawful standards and demands, just as I am responsible and accountable as a citizen to observe the laws of the USA.

I also realize that when I measure myself to the standards and demands of the Law of God, I fall woefully short. I have not yet been able to have just one single day in my life where I could honestly claim that I have perfectly demonstrated love every single moment through my every act, word and thought. I have broken the highest laws of the Universe everyday of my life, and for that I am so sorry. And I have no illusions that the good things I have done in my life are anywhere near enough in merit to adequately redeem me for my wrongs.

I know what I am. I know I will die and it will be a lawful and justified end for me. I know I cannot stop my own death or raise myself from the dead.

So I hope in a Savior who demonstrated that He can. And I rely upon His promise that He will come back for me and raise me physically and literally from the dead, just as He did for Himself by His own power 2000 years ago.

So what is Jesus?

I accept as the truth that Yeshua HaMashiakh is the Almighty God in the flesh. I accept that the Resurrection did really happen and is a literal historical fact, and that that historical event provides a rational basis for me to have hope of eternal life as an immortal son of God.

And I find comfort through all my frustrations and pains in this mortal life when I remember the Lord’s words when He promised:

“Do not let your hearts be distressed with fear by your troubles. You trust in God. Trust also in Me.

In My Father's house there are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you. I AM going away to prepare a place for you. And if I go away and make ready a place for you, I will without a doubt come back again and will take you to Myself, so that where I AM you may be also. And to the place where I AM going, you know the way.”

Then Thomas said to Him,

“Lord, we don’t know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”

Yeshua said to him,

“I AM the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had learned to recognize Me, you would also have learned to recognize My Father.”

Regards,
Merkhava

[Ashatav]

Dr. Deagle, with all his inside knowledge, says the ascended masters are part of the illuminati plan (AKA. the Jesuit plan, look at This (http://video.google.es/videoplay?docid=-8983734213111436220&ei=xOjVSM6wFoqqrgKpk63XAg&q=total+onslaught+behind&vt=lf)) and are put in place exactly to diminish the figure of Jehoshua (Jesus) who, with all the investigation I made, is a real figure and the most important man/God in the history.

Actually the New Age movement are put by the pro- NWO (Jesuits, knights of Malta, illuminati, etc).

-Question for a new ager: Why the cristians are inmune to witch magic?-

Look the awsome "Caballo de troya" from J J Benítez (sorry, no english translation for now, but several lenguages have it) who are about a Real secret time travel project to see the life of Jehoshua. Incredible, the man who give the documents to J J Benítez appears in a year first like a young adult an then like a very old man. Exelent masterpiece of 8 books describing in detail the life of the Son of Man (there'll be a 9 and last of them the next year).

Urantia Book.

What every insider says. Bill schnoebelen, C R Hamllet, etc.

Infórmense!

Cheers!:roll1:

[Richard T]

Hello Vorian's Revenge.

There is no will in love.

And there is no love in will

They, like intelligence, are fundamental energies that do not belong to any. They are 3 manifested Alephs out of seven. And love is the last of the 3 first to manifest.

They manifest as perceptions in the human race on Earth through animal emotions. They are therefore tempered and have no reality here yet. They are a woken dream. We say that these energies are spiritualized and spiritualization is perceived through emotions.

It is not possible, at this point, for humanity to consider helping whoever when it is totally dominated. It will have to go through a number of cycles before it can, as individual consciousnesses, vehicle itself via a morontial body along the axis of its consciousness to the core of the universe of universes and instantaneously return with information, perfect in vibration, that will create new conditions or universal evolution by the verb.

Right now, man must first construct the fields of energy necessary to support the transmigrated energy of his soul's memory away from the astral.

Edit: If not, his mind's access to his reality is astral bound and he must continue his evolution bound to the hierarchies that oversee material evolution. And the material universe is a small place, the tip of a gigantic iceberg.

At this point, the races that want man to succeed ar far beyond the current condition of man. And their mean of ascension, as you say, is not the same as that of man. To them, they already are on the path of their reality. Their means is via the access to information. Not knowledge. Information is the vibrational content while knowledge is but a memory of the vibration, a snapshot. Knowledge does not allow 360 degree information, it is only a tiny window through which you look into a linear direction. Information, by vibration, contains all the potential for causality. It is too vast to be contained within a material brain.

Man must fulfil his destiny before acting what this destiny portends.

You see what I mean?

[Richard T]

Pastor Raay Hagins PhD The 1st Creed of Nicea 325 AD part.1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-nl5adjqZw

There are 5 parts of it.


What the church did was to remove the spirit of the letter and replace it with symbology appropriate to the perpetuation of the conditioning of civilization through a particular type of spirituality.

This symbology calls the believer to see himself a small creature and surrender his consciousness to a concept.

New age has replaced god with one-ness, and so on, suggesting that the individualized consciousness had for some reason to dissolve into a collective pool.

This is a recurring theme.

Collective consciousness, collective unconscious, collective mind, oversoul, one-ness, and what not. All concepts meant to keep the lid on top of the mind.

The spirit of the Nazareen did not infuse here to reduce the individual to a creature but to instill a movement that must result in the construction of a wire, a tube, a tunnel, a bridge, whatever, between the mind and the cosmic network of intelligences that do not need memory to know.

All concepts are memories that contain the spirit. Therefore, all concepts will be destroyed without exception. This is why all sects and secret societies will disappear. Because man won't need to be told to know.

For now, man is told to believe.

[Ashatav]

Amazing Richard T

You Represents exactly all the illuminati Teachings Word by Word!

Awsome!

Cheers!

[milk and honey]

I think we can chew gum and whistle at the same time Richard T.

The concept of oneness reflects divine reality insofar as a harmony of purpose and vibration is concerned for billions of spiritual beings. In other words individuals will always exist even when we all cease to oppose each other from the level of the lower- ego and function instead through the individual spiritual- Self.

Unfortunately, as i see it, some new age teachings are trying to convince us that, if we are indeed ONE then there is no such thing as individuality. They pretend that individuality is an egoic concept unreflective of reality and thus something they'd like to help us get over. We should ask ourselves who benefits from such a "belief"?

I believe the illuminati schemers are trying to hoodwink the dreamers into a new- age collectivism in every area of life including economics, government, art, science, spirituality etc. After all, individuality is passe right?

If would be nothing more than a justification for totalitarianism in the same vein as the marxist state. You know, someone would have to organise us non-persons.

[Jonah]

Richard,
Good morning. If we are to succed, individually I mean. Will that be enough? Or must it be on a massive scale to make a difference? And for those who are able to free themselves from this dominance, once we return from the core, will it be in their world?

[Frank Samuel]

If you look at the fruits on a tree, for example an aplle tree, you will notice that althought is an apple they have different dimensions of shapes some bigger some are smaller, different but same, so are us. In essence we are all composed of the same thing energy, oh so they tell me. mmm I wonder !!!
Oh well pay no mind,:roll1: I'm just nuts !!!:biggrin2:

[2infinityandbeyond]

Not trying to rain on anyones parade here, but grab your umbrella!

I am perplexed as to why people still discuss a charactor that could very well be fictional.
If there is anything to discuss then it is the way of life this 'charactor' lived. THAT is what is important, even if he is fictional his way of life was awesome and instead of discussing it and debating it people should be inorporating this into their lifes. Taking action instead of wasting effort talking.

Its just beyond me why people will devote time to discussing something so insignificant when there are MILLIONS of flying saucers swarming aroung in our atmosphere, lets prioritise here people!

[milk and honey]

--- quoting milk and honey ---
"Jesus the 'Son of Man' became Jesus 'the Christ' (the Sun / Son of God) because he opened and surrendered to the inner light, called in the western scripture "Christos" and in the east, "Krishna" and "Buddha'"

I have considered the New Age interpretation that espouses the “Christ-consciousness” and for my own serious consideration, I have to reject it. I think you have it backwards. A son of man didn’t become a god, but rather, the Almighty God (the Logos) became the Son of Man.

You're right, the Logos became the Son of Man. Jesus fulfilled his spiritual potential by realising the Son of God within him and so can we. I called this process a "be-coming". The Logos created the material universe and billions of spiritual beings who incarnated and fell into a lower state of consciousness thus distorting the divine image. Jesus taught us how to BE-COME that which we already are by transcending the imperfect image through the healing presence of the Christ -- the true light within us.

He said... "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect"

By the interior light, Jesus spiritually perfected himself and gave us the example of how we too can realise soul perfection. The divine image already IS within us because it is the pattern of our divine origin. THE LOGOS.

There will remain a warring in our members (as Paul wrote) until the soul's divine image is restored. The spirit can transmute and transform the soul if is realised as a personal interior presence.

So naturally we can't accomplish this transformation by 'behavior modification' alone. Christhood is a state of consciousness so we must uncover the same Christ spirit which animated Jesus and which enabled him to perform his works. He told us where we would find that spirit (within ourselves) and Paul admonished us to "Have that Mind in you which was in Christ Jesus". That of course is the 'Christ Mind' which resides right where Jesus said it does... "within you"

We're all extensions (in matter) of the Logos (in spirit) which is the Universal Christ individualised within each soul. As i said, essentially we cannot become something we are not already, it's just that we've distorted the Divine Soul Image (in which we were made by the "word") so now we must transform that image by the power of the Logos within. That is Jesus' message.

I defer to Apostle John, who was the last survivor of The Twelve, who wrote:

“In the beginning (before there was Time) was the Word (the Logos), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Himself. He was present originally with God. All things came into existence through Him; and without Him was not even one thing made that has come into being.

Your quote from the Book of John is taken virtually verbatim from the eastern Vedas which are aprox 5000 years old. In the original Vedic scripture the word BRAHMAN is used in place of the word GOD but they're both refering to GOD and saying the exact same things about the "word" in relation to God.

2 more things...

John wrote that everything is the issue of the Logos or 'word'. It is written elsewhere that Jesus was the "incarnation of the word" but Jesus taught us that so are we if we will realise our full potential as sons of God. He invited us to seek and find the indwelling Presence of the Logos right within us which he called the "kingdom of God".

We are ONE in Christ. We issue from the same Father with whom was the "word" in the beginning. That is what John is saying and so is Jesus in various ways. We are his brothers and sisters who all share the same christ-consciousness and the same spiritual origin as him. And since we all issue from the Logos (the "word") we can return to it if we follow in Jesus footsteps.

As i said, the opening sentences of the Book of John were virtually identical to the Vedic texts written ~5000 years ago. Where did he get them? Most likely Jesus taught John that verse from his own travels in the east during the ~ 17 years missing from the Bible. Jesus disappears from the bible commentary at the age of 12 at which time, according to buddhist texts, he travelled east and studied the ancient wisdom teachings, some of which appear in various religious texts.

And the Word became flesh (incarnate) and tabernacled (pitched His tent of flesh awhile) among us; and we saw His majestic glory, such radiance as an only begotten Son receives from His Father, full of grace and truth.” (John 1:1-3, 14)

This quote speaks of Jesus and the Christ, both synonymous. Jesus taught us that we too are the "word made flesh". The "Word" is the 'Only Begotten Son' which is the Universal Christ-consciousness which is the "body of Christ" broken for All. A portion of the "broken body" of Christ is individualised within each person. Jesus called it the "kingdom of heaven" which is the interior Christ-consciousness. The radiance of the Christ Presence is within each of us and i am sure of it because i have seen it.

The question is “What is Jesus?”

It is of utmost importance to us each individually to get the answer right, because it speaks to the heart of such matters as:

1) Where did I come from?
2) Why am I and why here?
3) What will become of me?

I believe the answers to these questions ^^^are found in the quotes both you and i highlighted and i've interpreted their meaning according to a broader reading of scripture and intuition.

In the following paragraphs i've taken liberty to bold my interpretation of your statements and bible quotes as i see them and i'll add a link for you to study also if you wish. I believe christendom has thoroughly misrepresented Jesus true teaching and has replaced it with a false doctrine that reduces salvation to a simplistic formula involving baptism and confession of an external savior figure. That was not Jesus' real message.

So what is Jesus?

I accept as the truth that Yeshua HaMashiakh is the Almighty God in the flesh. I accept that the Resurrection did really happen and is a literal historical fact, and that that historical event provides a rational basis for me to have hope of eternal life as an immortal son of God.

Jesus taught that we are all "God" in the flesh but that we must realise our true nature and potential as he did".

I don't deny the resurrection, the crucifixion or the ascension. I simply point out that those milestones in Jesus own path of Christhood are symbolic of deeper spiritual truths that relate to the path of personal Christhood for each of us. That explains why some of the same symbols predate Jesus mission ~2000 yrs ago. They're symbolic of the personal path to God realisation we must all walk.

And I find comfort through all my frustrations and pains in this mortal life when I remember the Lord’s words when He promised:

“Do not let your hearts be distressed with fear by your troubles. You trust in God. Trust also in Me.

True. The Christ issues from the Father which is within each of us if we will seek and find it. Trust the interior presence of God. It is the "kingdom of heaven" within.

In My Father's house there are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you. I AM going away to prepare a place for you. And if I go away and make ready a place for you, I will without a doubt come back again and will take you to Myself, so that where I AM you may be also. And to the place where I AM going, you know the way.”

There are many levels of consciousness in God's being. The "place" (in consciousness) Jesus prepares is only accessible by entering the "kingdom" (the christ-consciousness) within us. It is a state of consciousness which will propell us into higher planes of God's being.

Jesus can be found right now in the "place prepared".... Right Within. He is ONE with the Univeral Christ Spirit and we will return to it and to him by following The Way which he taught. That Way is within, wherein all the love and intelligence of Christos guides, heals and transforms our whole being

Then Thomas said to Him,

“Lord, we don’t know where You are going, so how can we know the way?”

Yeshua said to him,

“I AM the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had learned to recognize Me, you would also have learned to recognize My Father.”

This statement by Jesus is referring both to his person and to the Universal Christ within all because Jesus is ONE with ALL. The recognition and embrace of the indwelling christ-consciousness is the lifeline to the I AM (the Father). There are no external paths or fundamentalist formulas to the kingdom of heaven. It is within us.

See this link for much more on the subject : www.askrealjesus.com/

[Jonah]

Please be careful Milk and Honey. I was only searching for information regarding the question.
We are not here to change anyones beliefs today. Regardless of intention.

I admire your resourceful memory, and am more than pleased that you posted your personal beliefs.

But please consider the ramifications of such information.

Thank you for your all you've done thus far.

[milk and honey]

Please be careful Milk and Honey. I was only searching for information regarding the question.
We are not here to change anyones beliefs today. Regardless of intention.

I admire your resourceful memory, and am more than pleased that you posted your personal beliefs.

But please consider the ramifications of such information.

Thank you for your all you've done thus far.

Not sure i'm reading you clearly VR.

Nobody has to change their beliefs on account of me. If i make assertions which do not agree with someone (who is already disagreeing with me) then they and anyone else is welcome to ignore what i've written or reply to me. You may have noticed that occasionally peoples views are 180 degrees apart. Asserting exactly what that dissagreement entails is not unhealthy and should not be discouraged in a truth seeker discussion forum.

You asked a few direct questions about Jesus at the beginning of this thread which presumably only an honest comparison of popular views can properly inform. It is very easy over several pages of posts to lose the conversation with it's similarities and contrasts. Personally i try to make them clear when my views dissagree with others.

In my view, the ramifications of a philosophical dissagreement are all positive if the discussion is calm, honest and provocative of replies which deal directly with the various contrasting assertions.

I think Merkhava is doing a fine job of holding his or her own, but just what, exactly, did you find offensive?

[Jma]

Of course I'm talking from a perspective of reincarnation, which not everybody accepts, especially since Jesus supposedly was against it according to the bible (although I've heard otherwise).

Reconciling Monotheistic and Easten knowledge.

I´ve got my own theory and there is a lively reincarnation vs. resurrection debate, there is also a reincarnation abuse theory which states since I am going to keep coming back, I can keep screwing up again and again.

Maybe God at one point decides there is no more chance at reincarnating (Armageddon), the tab is showed at everyone at the end.
There is where eternal hell and heaven is talked about in the Bible.
Again I don´t claim to be enlightened and have all the answers, I am still learning

[Jonah]

M&H,

I do not think anything was offensive at all. Just don't want this turning into something it is not (a place to disagree).

[Richard T]

Richard,
Good morning. If we are to succed, individually I mean. Will that be enough? Or must it be on a massive scale to make a difference? And for those who are able to free themselves from this dominance, once we return from the core, will it be in their world?

Hello.

My stance on this is that the next evolution will be based on a totally different paradigm. This implies a total individuation (as opposed to individualization, because of course this last term has a certain emotional charge)

There won't be a massive scale movement in that regard.

For instance, the next race won't absorb the previous, like the Indo-European race absorbed the Atlantean refugees.

Those who return from the core, as you say, will have morontiolized their consciousness, which means that in time they will be free to travel all axis of time and of space in all realms to do their work. But that is still yet a long time away.

[Merkhava]

Jesus and Sin and Faith



I think the assertion that Yeshua left Israel and spent years living in India studying occultic mysticism is a relatively recent New Age invention that has no basis in fact. There is no evidence to support the notion. It is a modern contrivance invented to redefine the Person and Purpose of the Lord's work in making salvation possible to mankind.

Yeshau Himself said during the time of His earthly ministry, "I have come only to the lost sheep of Israel."

The ancient records from over 25,000 manuscripts and fragments support what we have today as the Bible. No other work on the Earth comes close in quantity or quality to that bulk. From the eyewitness testimonies and fragments dating close to the time of the events of Yeshua, what we have indicates that the Lord lived in Nazareth as a humble house builder until the time He began His public ministry. Had He traveled so far to a goyim pagan land to study what any typical religious Jewish person would brand a false religion, Yeshua would not have been considered just a poor carpenter's son and He would have not been allowed to conduct teaching in synagogue as He did in Nazareth and Capernaum before He expanded to the rest of Israel. (Of course, as a Jewish man I may have a perspective of the subtleties of Jewish thinking and culture that you may not have experience to appreciate.)

I think your assertion that Yeshua dabled into Hindu occultism for 17 years in India is unscholarly and can not be supported with evidence. Present your scholarly evidence if you have it.


----------------------------------------

I tried to make a strong case about the obligatory demand of the Law of God upon you and all other men. Our sin debt necessitates the redemptive work Yeshua did on the cross. As Yeshua said to the Pharisees,

"If you do not trust that I AM He, then you will die in your sins."

I know without a doubt if I spent just one day with you observing you around other people I could come up with a long list of sins for you of actions and words committed in direct violation of the Law of God. And anyone could do the same about me.

If you or anyone else would try to claim sinless perfection, I have no doubt I could expose that as a farce very quickly. The newspapers and journalists make a living doing that everyday to people all over the world, and the lawyers and courts making a living prosecuting lawbreakers everyday.

I think you tragically avoid dealing with the issue of sin. It is a legal issue of horrific significance. Sin is what will kill you, just as it did Adam HaRishon and as it has done to every other man since (excluding the Lord).

Whereas you assert Yeshua perfected Himself into godhood as if by some evolutionary effort He martialed from within Himself, I think the Apostles made clear in their testimonies: He was perfect from the beginning of His birth through to His death on the cross, and is glorified now with the same radiance He displayed when He momentarily transfigured in front of Peter, James and John.

Apostle Paul was emphatic in declaring,

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)


------------------------------------

This question about "What is Jesus" is a very important issue, because if the Lamb of God is not innocent and perfect in regards to the Law, and if He is not something greater than the Universal Law itself, then His substitutionary death on our behalf has no legal merit to satisfy our own sin debts to the Law, nor has it sufficient value to overcome the destructiveness of our transgressions. And if there is no Resurrection, then we are all just dead men eventually. If that is our hopeless lot, then "why not eat drink and be merry, since tomorrow we die?"

If you or anyone would assume hubris to declare you have no sin debt, then I think that is tragic for you. When crimes are committed in the common human law, there is the justified expectation of responsibility, accountability and consequential retribution. We demand it because we all want justice when we are wronged. I think denying sin debt is about as delusional as a pedophile saying he has no accountability to the parents of a boy that he molested. God forbid if ever the child is your own and was victimized by a pedophile! How would you respond if a judge had contempt for the law and let the guilty criminal go free to molest again and again? What if such a pedophile were a priest and what if the leader of those priests closed his eyes to it? Wouldn't you be enraged at the injustice?

But how do you feel for your own injustice to God and to your neighbor for moments of selfishness and neglect to love them with grace and giving as mandated by the First and Second Greatest Commandments?

------------------------------------------

Because there is Justice in the Universe and there is Law in the Universe, then in my view, it is logical that there is also sin debt upon everyone who violates the Law.

Do you have a real appreciation for right and wrong, good and evil, righteousness and sinfulness? Is it all ammoral and relative to you? Can you keep the Law yourself? Can you honestly claim to be able to follow just the Ten Commandments perfectly for a year, or a month or even single a day? Have you ever seriously tried it? See how impossible it is!!

------------------------------------------


I also see that you are dismissive of the critical importance and absolute necessity of FAITH in the Lord. You even seem to think that faith is some sort of perversion or conspiracy against people. You seem to assert we must workout our own "next evolutionary leap", as I see New Agers prefer to call the idea of Salvation. You seem to think that Yeshua perfected Himself into the status of godhood, as if to proclaim that is something we must do ourselves by our own efforts and thoughts. You seem to boast that men must recreate themselves into something that ascends to the status of God Himself.

I say go ahead and try if you are so convinced of it.

You may as well try to swim from Los Angeles to Hong Kong. Who knows how far you may get than the next man who may join with you. But I think you will all nevertheless fail to get to your destination. Of course, I won't be so foolish as to try to swim across the Pacific, when I can board a ship or airplane that will take me across. And for my soul's sake, I will put my trust in the Lord - relying upon His work at the Cross and the Resurrection to carry me to my Home.

----------------------------------------------------------

So work your way to eternal life and save yourself by your own works if you trust so much in yourself. But let me remind you what Apostle Paul clearly said to that issue:

"For it is by grace that you are saved through faith. And this salvation is not of your own doing, but it is the gift of God; Not because of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesian 2:8-9)

Also I remind you of what the prophet Isaiah wrote concerning the intrinsic value of our good works and efforts:

"For we have all become like an unclean leper, and all our righteous deeds are like filthy infected rags; we all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, blow us away. And no one calls on Your name and awakens himself to take hold of You; for You have hidden Your face from us and have delivered us into the consuming power of our iniquities. Yet, O Lord, You are our Father; we are the clay, and You are our Potter, and we all are the work of Your hand." (Isaiah 64:6-8)

Had Yeshua never come and died on the cross, substituting His own death sentence for the one we each deserve, then we would all still be "delivered into the consuming power of our iniquities" as Isaiah wrote. Salvation is the work of the Lord, not by us. He is our Potter and we are but clay. Our only work in this is to rely upon what He did and trust He will apply His own shed blood to our account to wash us clean.

The Jewish people asked that simple question of the Lord:

They then said, "What are we to do, that we may work out what God requires?

Jesus replied, "This is the work that God asks of you: that you trust in the One Whom He has sent." (John 6:28-29)

Faith is about relying upon what Yeshua worked out on our behalf, exclusive of anything we may do to add to it. Baptism has no merit. Church membership has no merit. Eucharist has no merit. Tithing has no merit. All these extraneous rituals and practices and good works do nothing to save a man's soul.

Faith is the victory. Total trust and reliance upon what Yeshua did for us is what pleases God. Remember what Paul wrote to the Jews:

"But without faith it is impossible to please to Him. For whoever would come near to God must necessarily first believe that God exists and that secondly He is the rewarder of those who diligently search for Him." (Hebrews 11:6)

-------------------------------------------------


So... go ahead and try to workout your own salvation if you think you are up to it. Try to evolve yourself into a "homo neuvos" and become a New Age god if you think you can do it. You have free will given to you by God to make your choice. If you wish to work out your own salvation, you are given these mortal days to try and regain innocence and try to claim "not guilty".

I won't buy into that kind of delusion. I know what I am.

So as for me, I will put my trust in my risen Savior to wash my sins away, and I cry out "Dear God please be merciful to me a sinner." And I will hope for the victorious day when He defeats Death and the Grave for me, to raise my dead body out of the ground and present me before my Heavenly Father as one of His adopted immortal sons who has been redeemed by the blood of the Lamb who is my Lord - the Firstborn of the Resurrection.

Regards,
Merkhava

[100thmonkey]

Merkhava, all of that is artificial.
Justice doesn't exist in nature, sin doesn't exist in nature. These are concepts invented by men.

[Merkhava]

Merkhava, all of that is artificial.
Justice doesn't exist in nature, sin doesn't exist in nature. These are concepts invented by men.
I can understand such a conclusion if your view of the Universe is that there is no God and that invisible things can't exist in reality as transcendant independent forces outside the human condition.

If God is not a Person from which proceeds intelligence, will, emotion, creativity and all the other characteristics of personality, then yes, you could probably conclude that the entire realm is just a deterministic machine, and you are just the sum total of chemical reactions going through the motions.

If God is a conceptual creation of man - an opiate of the masses to keep them submitted to tyrants - then I can understand how you can conclude there is no such thing as justice, no sin, no love, no joy, no mercy, no law, no soul. We could even say there is no mind and no such thing as life. It is all just an illusion of chemicals and electrical pulses in our brains. We could say no human being is intrinsically valuable, life has no purpose, and there is no such thing as hope. It is all human contrivance.

In fact, if the conclusion is that there is no sin, we could go on and say we need no judges, no police to protect us, no prisons to hold lawbreakers. We need no law, since there is no such thing as right and wrong, or good and evil. We should just live and let live. If your neighbor chooses to live as he sees fit, just let him, even if it means he invades your home, steals your possessions, harms your family and kills you for trying to stop him from living his life the way he wants to.

No... I can't have such a view of the Universe. I have to consider there is purpose and meaning and order to it. There has to be an answer to WHY?

I'm a former nuclear engineer. I am very aware of how organized and intricately balanced matter and energy are at the nano-scale. My current work is all about design and fabrication at the angstrom level. I look at the patterns repeating upscale from the micro world into the macro world of the solar system and galaxies. It amazes me. I look at the power in there and the design in nature and I have to acknowledge their is a Master Architect and He possess a great mind and a wonderful eye for beauty. And there is so much to it beyond what my five senses can perceive or my mind can contemplate.

There is so much out there that exists whether or not you or I am aware of it. It's there whether or not we believe it. It's there regardless of our acknowledgement of it as being true. What is there and what is true is because it simply is.

And there is so much more that IS than we can even begin to dream there could be.

The eye has not seen, the ear has not heard, neither has even entered into the mind of man the things that God has prepared for those that love Him.

Regards,
Merkhava

[Richard T]

As the Nazareen said, the only sin that won't be forgiven is the sin against the spirit.

What is god, really?

The belief or not in a god does not necessariy preclude recognition of the invisible.

Matter of fact, it is always a wonder how many people believe in god but refuse to even consider the reality of the invisible.

[SavannahSkye]

To me, Jesus was just a human, like the rest of us.
His story is irrelevant and unnecessary. :winksmiley02:

We don't need to know about his life or his mission or his purpose or his beliefs or his origins.
We don't need to promote those to anybody else, because they don't need it either.
We don't need his teachings, because he didn't preach anything that hadn't already been taught, or that we couldn't realise for ourselves.
We don't need salvation, because there's no eternal hell to be saved from.
We don't need his payment, because there is no debt.
We don't need him to take our karma, because karma doesn't work that way.
We don't need to fear a judgement day, because there is no ultimate Judge, beside ourselves.

We only need to live our own life. :wink2:

I couldnt have put it better myself...:original:



I have read two interesting articles recently, one was titled 'Was Jesus a Pagan?', the other 'Was Jesus a Witch'...

He fit into either categories very nicely :winksmiley02:

[Jonah]

Richard,

Aren't those forces that do not wish to lose control, sinning against our spirits?

[Richard T]

These forces are the hierarchies behind what has been called the rebellion.

They obey laws that are dictated by the great force that made its movement away from the contemplative realm of light.

But if you look at it from the perspective of the hierarchies, that movement made it possible for intelligence, the fundamental energy of light, to infuse the realms that this movement created.

Sin against spirit, in a sense, is the opposition of the ego to the command of the new energy that wants to penetrate his territory to replace the command of the forces of domination who took charge from the so called rebellion and that are at the base of human psychology.

Man is afraid to lose. And because of that, he will lose.

[clayman]

Merkhava, all of that is artificial.
Justice doesn't exist in nature, sin doesn't exist in nature. These are concepts invented by men.


Rules, my friend.. Rules exist in nature, and in people. By recognizing the rules, you get to understand what you should avoid..
For example, you don't see elephants growing in apple trees do you?
Or, if you live for death, then death awaits you. Live by the gun, die by the gun. Judge people, and you will be judged.
Justice and sin are no man made concepts, they are there, whether you like them or not. Because of your free will you choose to think its all man made. We all tend to think we are so smart and intelligent just because we've sent a rocket to the moon, yet we think we are apes where rules are jokes..
Either you follow the rules or you break them, but remember, you have the will to choose, so choose wisely.

[Goert]

He was ,is,and always will be God Almighty.He was not an ascended master or avatar.And Christianity is not a religion,it is reality.If you study all the major religions in history you will see they all teach that man has to work his way into heaven.Not so with Christianity.He paid the price on Calvary's Cross.And the Illuminati has twisted the message with organized religion and esoteric philosophy.Furthermore,most people here are not Christians,so you know.Christ-Consciousness yes,biblical Christians,no.Study the messages of all these contactees with aliens or extradimensional entities or future humans coming back in time to help us,and you will find they all go out of their way to denigrate Jesus Christ as the only Saviour and Messiah of humanity.They teach about a paradigm shift in consciousness to culminate in 2012,and those that are not on the proper and positive vibrational wavelength must be helped along,moved out of the way or eliminated.This is all prophesied in Scripture along with the rest of the signs of the Last Days.And some of the human agents do not use the term new ager,but the tenets are identical,nonetheless.Guys like Jordan Maxwell,David Icke,and a few others downplay their contempt for Christianity when on Alex Jones or other shows.But you can read their material and it is all the same as David Wilcock,George Green,Miriam Delcado and the people interviewed by Bill and Kerry.And in those interviews you will hear snickers and derisive comments on Christianity,but not on any outlandish views espoused.But I find the information interesting,and as B and K says;if you don't like it here go somewhere else.It is their forum.I agree.Both are sincere in wanting to help people.Just take note that both believe in reincarnation[Heb.9:27 shoots that down] and Bill is a part of an offshoot branch of Scientology.Hubbard...the original founder was an OTO Satanist and sci-fi author that made that religion up based on Crowleyian philosophy.Again,the people here are nice.You might learn ways to prepare for hard times.But be careful.Very careful with the spiritual advice.

[SoulSuspect]

Jesus to me was a revoultionary. Working on the sabbath, attacking the current politicans or administration as well as the rich, not physically of course. He wasnt some weak as* peace loving hippie liberal pussy cat who smiled at all times. He opposed those in power and stood up and spoke when others were afraid, but the main thing he got people to listen to him when he did this. Its hard to listen to people today bc most of them are full of bs. Especially those who oppose the powers at be. Another thing he never did was preach about christanity bc he was jewish. Yep all christians worship a Jewish Man. No one ever brings that up and another thing is he might be a fictional character made up to inspire people or to control people. Either way define him as you like as long as it helps you stay positive and help serve others instead of your ego.

Peace, Love, and War

[Providence]

Richard T -

Can you tell me what books you have read or are reading? I have been on a quest since very young and have arrived at similar conclusions you have been discussing on this thread. I am always looking for good books about world religions and spirituality.

I am particularly interested in the Nag Hammadi texts, and specifically in the Secret Gospel of Thomas. I believe that the metaphorical speach attributed to Jesus was meant to offer something to each listener, dependant on the spirtual maturity and life path of the individual. One very powerful statement made in the Secret Gospel of Thomas which truly resonated with me is this:

"Let one who seeks not stop seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will be disturbed. When he is disturbed, he will be astonished and will rule over all". Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. What WAS he speaking of? Truly something much more than the physcial, yet, something still among us, even now, just out of reach.....another dimension

I read a fair amount of Elaine Pagels work and I have just purchased a book called The Third Jesus by Depak Chopra.

A note on Christianity... as others have said.. the parallels between Christianity and Mithraism are uncanny. And why shouldn't they be? Mithraism was one of the competing (and popular) belief systems when Christianity was in its infancy. The virgin birth was but one of the many cross-pollinating ideas between the two religions. All completely fascinating.

[wes_whitewolf]

STOP TALKING ABOUT ME LIKE I'M NOT HERE TO READ YOUR COMMENTS!!!!:mfr_lol:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s288/wdeuel/Christ.jpg

Don't make me come over there!!!

Love, Compassion & Forgiveness...why is that so difficult with you people?!?!?:lmao:

[Ashatav]

Pardon but...

This is what the spiritually iliterated luciferian wanna-bes think and preaches:


-The no-existence or existence with little importance of Jehoshua (that's a important topic because if they tries to eliminate this figure from the history is for something, it not for nothing, in fact you can listen to this John Todd audio (http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=DerUFYMExS8) to know more about the topic or look at the Teilhard de Chardin's -jesuit- New Age scam)

(in any case, you know the spiritual bases of UN (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-355200598020137027) are Teilhard and Alice A Bailey, a satanist, just look out at the publishers of her books, Lucis Trust, before called Lucifer trust! and that's Real!)

-The divinity of the human being with out GOD (or just in the place of GOD, lucifer).

-The rules are made by the subjet alone. (this shows they low level of spiritual development hoho)

-We all gonna be One and mold with the Oness instead of individual development and individual grace. (this is popular now but is luciferic)

-Long live to Isis Horus and Seth and all they alternative names (a long list, Mary, Moon, Semiramis as isis, etc. etc. etc.).

-We will re-build Babylonia.

-The pope is the vicar or christ (in place of christ, that's because the bended cross, you know that?), actually the pope is like a representant of a luciferic religion. The one is at top of every other religion, pseudoreligion, central banks, illuminatis, etc.

-You are cattle, muahaha!

-etc.

So, if you find something with these topics in a ideology, trash it!

Cheers!

[Heretic]

I am a subscriber to the composite character theory for various reasons although I do entertain the idea of a man who did teachings that was replaced by this composite character.

I really like how some of the hermetical orders of Gnostic orthodoxy describes Jesus.

The soul of Jesus is the very same soul as Adam, Noah, Moses and just about every other savior figure in the Old Testament that I can’t remember

After the fall of Adam (Jesus’ first incarnation), Adam had to keep coming back over and over as a salvation figure to man, to set things into motion that would lead to his return as the son of man, Jesus, so the connection between God and Man could be repaired.

Since Adam broke the relationship between God and man, he was set to correct it again by using baptism as a means to re-connect man with God. The crucifixion (the final penance of Adam) and resurrection were intended to allow the flow of Gods full power to once again enter mankind.

Once a person is baptized with water, then he is then connected to the holy spirit. Once baptized by fire he is then able to baptize others by water or fire and has full god connection and was able to do miracles. Thus the Saints occurred. Once Jesus returns, this second coming, he will then be able to connect to everyone who has had either baptism and raise them up via something very similar to ascension like properties.

This is the significance of the baptism which is an act of repentance, then you get your god connection aka. the holy spirit and you are good to go for Jesus to do his mojo on you during his second coming.

When you look at an orthodox cross that is associated with most Gnostic orders, the very bottom of the cross shows either a skull or some bones and sometimes just burial symbology. This is the skull, bones, burial symbols of Adam.

Again this was in the 70s and I am no longer of any denomination nor Christian at all but I have always liked this analogy and it rang true for me, and still does even. Even if these are simply archetypes I think there is significance there. It just makes sense that the guy who screwed it all up for the rest of us, comes back and has to go through lifetimes of solving the issue over and again, until finally he can come back and “die for man’s sins”

So I guess I would say, in the spirit of this thread, that Jesus is the redemption of Adam and man as a whole from original sin.

On a side note: study every religion you can, and then compare them all; wisdom awaits

peace

[Richard T]

Hello Providence.

I don't really read much at all.

But there are interesting things out there, so I am not suggesting people should not be reading.

You know Krishnamurti? A rare man of rare intelligence.

[Chesmayne]

http://www.chesmayne.info

XP - Christ - Monogram......

03 24th letter of the English alphabet - symbol for an unknown quantity or a variable - a term often used to designate a person, thing, agency, factor, or the like, whose true name is unknown or withheld.

04 The Roman numeral for 10 - Christ - Christian (form of Greek letter ‘chi’, first letter of ‘Christos’.

02 The Christian monogram made from the first two letters of the Greek word for CHrist - Greek: ‘chi’ and ‘rho’ (CH). KI. The anointed KI, ‘royal son of David’. The Gospels are collections of fragments of memories, recollections and reminiscences, with the writers being more collectors than biographers. Almost nothing is said of his boyhood. He seems to have had brothers and a sister. He had a genius for telling parables and knew the scriptures thoroughly (the teaching method in the synagogues was in the form of questions). He probably had an unusual way of speaking - in the sense of the way his words were actually spoken and noted for his repartee (turning the tables - French: jeu parti: question and answer poem or contest).

Like a chess player he could see the significance in everything (depth of perception). A particular quality emanates from Him, the attribute of KIs, charisma. His emphasis is on God’s passionate interest in the individual human personality - an idea both rich and new in a discordant world where a poor person is only a mp in a game s/he can not control. Messiah: from a Hebrew word meaning ‘anointed.’ In Greek it is rendered ‘Christ’. In Jewish expectation the Messiah would be God’s instrument (not a divine figure) in ushering in his Kingdom.

Very little is known for certain about the man that profoundly changed the lives of billions of people over the past twenty centuries. An outstanding prophetic-charismatic healer, preacher and moralist, seeing straight into the innermost religious significance of Jewish laws and beliefs. His travels exposed him to a wide variety of cultures and doctrines. JX (Jesus Christ). The two letters are usually surrounded by a circle giving the impression of a wheel (cosmic and solar symbol). A and W are sometimes added (Alpha and Omega). No writings appear in His own hand! The Gospels tell the story and teachings of his earthly sojourn.

03 Matthew: presents four portraits: Christ the KI, the servant, the man and the Son of God, his deity and humanity. Papias, the BS of Hierapolis, in 130 AD said that Matthew composed the oracles in the Hebrew tongue and everyone translated them as he was able. In this document he tries to convince the Jews that Christ is their KI and Messiah (2:2). Matthew focuses on the kingship of Christ.

The KIs herald (John the Baptist) prepared the way for Christ’s coming. Christ preaches ‘the good news of the kingdom’, proving his kingly power by miraculous signs. The famous ‘Sermon on the Mount’ reminds one of the ‘royal law of love’. “We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount”. Christ taught not only by words but by signs. He expects His subjects to have high standards. It covers the Annunciation, the Visitation, the Shepherds, Jesus in the Temple, Martha and Mary, the Woman who was a sinner, the Good Samaritan, the Rich Fool, the Lost Sheep, the Prodigal Son, the Penitent Thief, the Journey to Emmaeus, the Ascension, Sermon on the Mount, the Widows son and the Passion etc. Luke tells of the Annunciation, the birth of Jesus, the visit of the shepherds and the choirs of angels. When Luke told the story of Gabriel greeting Mary with the news that she was to be the mother of the promised Messiah, Mary shrank from this message in awe and amazement.

04 Mark: vivid attention to detail. Of interest is Christ’s limited knowledge about the end (13:32). He is welcomed by the herald (1:1-8). He would extend the knowledge of God to ‘the ends of the earth’ (49:5-6). Christ tells his men that he must die. At the end of this book Christ is at the right hand of God, victorious, vindicated and enthroned.

05 Luke: Perception (about John, 7:18-23, and those who opposed him). The one greater than the great KI Solomon and Jonah the prophet (11:29-32).

06 John: composed a spiritual book. There is much mention of Babylon, which probably referred to Imperial Rome in the time of Nero. The religion of Rome was emperor worship and an attempt was made to wipe Christians off the face of the earth just as Hitler tried to wipe out the Jewish race. Figurative language is used and much of this is obscure in its meaning to some. It is not a mystical or magical book from which the end of the world can be calculated. Many attempts have been made to find a cryptographic clue, which will reveal the time of the end of the present age and the 2nd coming of Christ. Rome was destroyed just like ancient Babylon. It contains seven visions.

07 Legend credits Joseph of Arimathea with bringing his young nephew, Jesus, to Britain in the course of one of his many trade visits in search of Cornish tin. All the legends concerning Christ’s connections with Britain revolve around His youth and death. The main relics of the Crucifixion were said to have been brought to Glastonbury and hence its associations with the Grail. Joseph of Arimathea: traditionally, the uncle of Christ.

Imprisoned by the Romans, he was visited by the Risen Christ and entrusted with the secrets and guardianship of the Grail. He settled in Glastonbury and built the first Christian church of wattle. He planted his staff on Wearyall Hill where it burst into flower. It flowers at Christmas and is sent as a tribute to the QU of England each year. “If Jesus Christ were to come to-day, people would not even crucify him. They would ask him to dinner, and hear what he had to say, and make fun of it” (D.A. Wilson ‘Carlyle at his Zenith , 1927).

08 Latin: ‘Agnus Dei’, ‘Lamb of God.’ Title of Jesus. The figure of a lamb bearing a cross or flag, the symbol of Christ. Angus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi (Lamb of God, that takest away the sins of the world) - also part of the Gloria in the English Communion service. The cake of wax or dough bearing this imprint. The pelican and unicorn are also symbols of Christ. Anno Domini, ‘In the Year of our Lord’. This dating system was first used by a monk by the name of Dionysius Exignuus (6th century).

10 Micah 5:2: “Out of you shall He come forth unto me that is to be the ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from old, from everlasting”. Buddhists anticipate the coming of Maitreya. The Jews seek the Messiah. Christians look forward to the 2nd Coming. The Judeo-Christian tradition is a tradition of the word. Mantra: is the power of a word to call into being a reality.

For some the word ‘Jesus’ is a mantra, a quickener of the consciousness and a means of entering the holy of holies within. Jesus gained mastery over the dimensions of our present consciousness and over time and space, which are no longer limitations to His manifestation. He may manifest anywhere, anytime. The term ‘Master’ is often used in reference to Jesus. Edgar Cayce has said that he appeared as Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph, Joshua, Jeshua and finally as Jesus.

11 Almond: that which is hidden behind the surface. His human nature hides His divine nature (protected hidden kernel). Patience, (since you have to extract the kernel from the shell). Seed of Zeus.

12 Encolpion: ‘worn on the breast’ (Greek). Capsule worn on the breast containing the monogram XP, Bible verses etc. Medallion.

13 Animal symbolism: He became as a man by being born, died like a sacrificial bull, and rose to heaven like an eagle.

14 IHS or JHS: Jesus (Greek).

Christ Consciousness - Grid - Plato planet consciousness - grid

The concept of the planetary grid is not new. Plato spoke about this in his work Timaeus as “The ideal body of cosmos” and explains the grid as the synthesis of the platonic solids. The grid that covered the earth was formed of the five platonic solids, as emanation of creation. Plato believed that the basic structure of the earth was in a process of evolution from simple geometric forms to other more complex forms. In the order of complexity, the five patterns that formed the blocks of the crystalline matrix are: The Tetrahedron, the Hexahedron or cube, the Octahedron, the Dodecahedron and the Icosahedrons.

The platonic solids are the only existing shapes whose vertexes perfectly match the inside surface of a sphere. These shapes were considered holy by many cultures. The platonic solids were considered the building blocks of the universe in sacred geometry science.

Christ Consciousness pendant

The Christ Consciousness pendant is made from a combination of 2 platonic solid shapes - the dodecahedron (12 five sided facets) and the icosahedrons (20 triangles). The structure of the Christ Consciousness pendant creates the third level consciousness grid of the human race, which is an electro magnetic field that surrounds planet earth and unites the human consciousness.

The Jerusalem 2001 bombing and the Christ consciousness experiment

In 2001, there were many bombings in a specific area of Jerusalem. One day someone arrived to David to view his work. When he saw the Christ consciousness pendant, he was very much attached. He felt it had great harmonious powers. He suggested to David to experiment and spread 30 of these pendants all over Jerusalem. The bombing stopped the same day!

Drunvalo Melchizadek - collective human consciousness

The idea of collective human consciousness is wide spread these days, and is underlying principles related to chromosomes and Jungian theory. Some of the ideas behind this are based on the teachings of Drunvalo Melchizadek.

Here’s a snip of an interview with him (Leading Edge, 12/95): “There are three totally different kinds of humans on the Earth, meaning that they perceive the one reality in three different ways, interpreted differently. The first kind of human has a chromosome composition of 42+2. They comprise a unity consciousness that does not see anything outside them as being separate from them. To them, there is only one energy - one life, one being ness that moves everywhere. Anything happening anywhere is within them, as well. They are like cells in the body. They are all connected to a single consciousness that moves through all of them. These are the aboriginals in Australia. There might be a few African tribes left like this. Then, there is our level, comprising 44+2 chromosomes. We are at a disharmonic level of consciousness that is used as a stepping stone from the 42+2 level to the next level, 46+2. These two additional chromosomes change everything”.

According to Drunvalo, the grid of the third level was destroyed 13,000 years ago. The Grid was reconstructed by the hidden sects of the ascended Atlantean masters, a process that came to its end in 1989. In the Olympic Games that took place in Sidney, Australia, during the closing ceremony the whole stage came out of the ground and took the shape of a huge dodecahedron, with all the different competitors from the different nations standing around it with the aboriginals as well!

The Grid is the Akashic library of this planet. It also allows us to know future events. And that is the reason so many Channelers have appeared since 1989.

72 names for god - 72 facets for the Christ Consciousness

In the Jewish tradition there are the 72 sacred names of God. By taking the middle sentence of the holy Torah and dividing it to thirds you’ll end up with 72 names which are constructed of three letters. Some of these names are similar to the definitions or names of the One God throughout the different cultures (such as Aum in Buddhism). Since God has no name or definition there has to be another explanation for this phenomenon. If you take a look at the shape of this pendant which represents the united consciousness of humanity, the Christ Consciousness Grid, you’ll discover that it is made out of 72 facets.

[atlantianferret]

This thread is funny.

So easily divided. Their work is done here.

[Ashatav]

This thread is funny.

So easily divided. Their work is done here.

Amen to that!

But in fact the people here are the same who are attacking (luciferiacly muahohoo) to Jehoshua and defending Him in the last and erased thread about it because it doesn't belong to Avalon Project hahahaha

So, long live to off-topic hahahaha, the house of anything haha

cheers!

[Richard T]

One very powerful statement made in the Secret Gospel of Thomas which truly resonated with me is this:

"Let one who seeks not stop seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will be disturbed. When he is disturbed, he will be astonished and will rule over all". Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. What WAS he speaking of? Truly something much more than the physcial, yet, something still among us, even now, just out of reach.....another dimension

I read a fair amount of Elaine Pagels work and I have just purchased a book called The Third Jesus by Depak Chopra.

A note on Christianity... as others have said.. the parallels between Christianity and Mithraism are uncanny. And why shouldn't they be? Mithraism was one of the competing (and popular) belief systems when Christianity was in its infancy. The virgin birth was but one of the many cross-pollinating ideas between the two religions. All completely fascinating.

He will be disturbed because he will realize that everything he had based his evaluation of reality will dissipate, because he will meet himself at the other hand of the tunnel and realize that who he meets is more real than who he was. His beliefs will be annihilated. He will be astonished because he will find reality to be greater than what he could have imagined, because he will have access to the mysteries, to everything that was hidden, and he will rule because it is through him that what he will have found will rule. All will be ruled, even the hierarchies who work under the laws of domination and who used those laws to render humanity insignificant, limiting it to beliefs and refusing it the right to know.

All churches, all religions have recuperated the coming of the Nazareen, of the avatar of Pisces, to bend his words to their own advantage and power. All religions have been used within a sphere of comprehension that was limited to beliefs. None have ever really explained, none have ever really unveiled what was behind the words. The words were used as shields against the spirit they carried.

So that today, those who believe are left with a caricature that they try and imitate.

The problem is that people don't read by vibration. They study the form and the vibration is replaced with the cultural value of the words, which of course is different according to the diverse transcriptions and translations, to languages that were created within the limited scope of experimental consciousness based on ignorance and manufactured concepts that in turn were used to steer the destiny of nations at the expense of the individuals. So, the spirit of the letter was lost and today people adore the letter as an icon.

[eurosceptic]

Shaun Ryder explained it succinctly....


"...jesus was bataman, no! That was Bruce Wayne!":biggrin2:

[Mystica]

The misdirection exists in the question "What was Jesus then?".

The real question is "Who is Jesus then?".

Jesus is the Son of God and future King coming to establish His monarchy. The monarchy will bring new paradigms of Truth and Justice.

However, before he arrives, there will be a monumental test of faith to separate the True Believers from the charlatans and wannabes.

Proceed wth caution and never abandon your faith. The great seduction is near.

[Jma]

I am lead to believe there are angels, demons and us the UFO phenomenon is the new scam from hell to get people in the sack.
It´been done before the great Flood.

[Joshua]

Hello ALL...

My Take, real simple...Jesus was a touched individual, as was Mohammed, Buddha and everyone else that came before them, that all possessed these miraculous abilities...that were all inspired and made possible by the one Creator "GOD" of the known Multiple Universes.

All of those touched individuals merely wanted to remind us of who we really are and the potential that is inside of all of us. We again, are all made in Gods image (doesn't mean we look like him) and that we all have a part of him, which allows us ALL to have the abilities that those touched individuals acquired. This also means that we are all tied to one another, as brothers and sisters are, as well to our one mother, Mother Earth.


So, long and short, we are all GOD's, but have forgotten to act as such....when we begin to act like gods, will we then begin to obtain these touched abilities. When we loose the whoa is me (victim/abuser mentality), take responsibility for our THOUGHTS and actions, stop worshiping man....within reality or religious icons (these touched individuals were still man) and replenish our Mother Earth back to a harmonious Balance....will these abilities begin to transcend upon us and we'll have the epiphany of our true intended purpose for life (Other than procreation).

Best Thoughts to All
Josh

P.S. Mr. Merkhave....Well Said!

[Mystica]

I am dumbfounded as to why this thread is in 'off topic' while there exists a thread about saving dolphins in 'spirituality'. That being said, I would like to add this.

Moreover, I, God the Creator, am being blasphemed. For people say: 'We do not know if God [Jesus] exists. And if he exists, we do not care.' They throw my banner to the ground and trample on it, saying: 'Why did he suffer? What good is it to us? If he would grant our wish, we will be satisfied - let him keep his kingdom and his heaven!'

I want to go into them, but they say: 'We would die before giving up our own will!'

My bride, see what kind of people they are! I made them and can destroy them with a word. How insolent they are toward me! Thanks to the prayers of my Mother and of all the saints, I remain merciful and patient enough that I am now willing to send them the words of my mouth and to offer them my mercy. If they want to accept it, I will be appeased.

[100thmonkey]

Jesus is the Anti-Christ. :smoke:

His story was concocted to lead people away from the truth within themselves, so that they look to some external saviour.
It's based on fear of hellfire.

It's their same old problem-reaction-solution situation.
Create a problem: 'Original sin, defaulting to hell'. Get the reaction, 'Fear of going there'. Provide the solution: "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's"...

The Roman Empire knew it couldn't maintain control by military force indefinitely, so it turned to psychological means - the people will control themselves if we can get them to believe they are being watched all the time by a being who knows even their thoughts, and with their eternal fate on the line...
The ultimate fear base.

So the Roman Empire became the Roman Church, the Emperor became the Pope, the elites stayed on as priests, and so the bloodlines continued in power, with all countries loyal to the Pope, despite their borders and governments, etc...
:trumpet:
...at least, that was the intention, until the gnostics and the secret societies started to grow and upset the power balance.

So the Catholic church created the illuminati to infiltrate and take over the growing threats, offering 'higher mysteries', etc. Who could resist?
That's why the Illuminati follow the same christian paradigm...
and that's why christians think they're beliefs are verified by them...
:roll1:
:sad:

[Mystica]

His story was concocted to lead people away from the truth within themselves, so that they look to some external saviour.
It's based on fear of hellfire.

Chrisitianity is not necessarily based on fear of hellfire.

There are three types of Christians:

1. Those that have faith because of rational thought (reason).

2. Those that have faith because of threat of punishment (fear of God).

3. Those that have faith because of love for God.

Jesus taught that the first two - although saved - will never see the face of God. The third is the only brand that will. This is why Jesus said that the most important commandment is to "love your God with all your heart, all your might and all your soul".

Jesus repeatedly told his followers to look within in order to find the Kingdom of God.

Because of this I find your hypothesis lacking.

[Bayareamom]

JMHO, but Jesus was not a concoction! He was real -- his life was real. There is a wealth of information which has come thru the Dead Sea Scrolls re: Jesus and the Essenes. Also, Dr. Joe Lewels has performed extensive research re: the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jesus, the Essenes, etc. He has written two really good books, one of which is "The Rulers of the Earth," which I would highly recommend reading.

Jesus was no myth -- he was a real flesh and blood man who was brought here to try to help -- he spoke the Truth. Unfortunately, most didn't believe him...until his death.

[Evolution22]

This is from law of one,

I am Ra. The one known to you as Jesus of Nazareth did not have a name. This entity was a member of fifth density of the highest level of that sub-octave. This entity was desirous of entering this planetary sphere in order to share the love vibration in as pure a manner as possible. Thus, this entity received permission to perform this mission. This entity was then a Wanderer of no name, of Confederation origins, of fifth density, representing the fifth-density understanding of the vibration of understanding or love.

http://www.lawofone.info/?sc=1&ss=0

[Bayareamom]

Link to one site re: the Dead Sea Scrolls:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/scrolls/juda.html

SNIP:

"The Dead Sea Scrolls include a range of contemporary documents that serve as a window on a turbulent and critical period in the history of Judaism. In addition to the three groups identified by Josephus (Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes), Judaism was further divided into numerous religious sects and political parties. With the destruction of the Temple and the commonwealth in 70 C.E., all that came to an end. Only the Judaism of the Pharisees--Rabbinic Judaism--survived. Reflected in Qumran literature is a Judaism in transition: moving from the religion of Israel as described in the Bible to the Judaism of the rabbis as expounded in the Mishnah (a third-century compilation of Jewish laws and customs which forms the basis of modern Jewish practice)."

"The Dead Sea Scrolls, which date back to the events described in the New Testament, have added to our understanding of the Jewish background of Christianity. Scholars have pointed to similarities between beliefs and practices outlined in the Qumran literature and those of early Christians. These parallels include comparable rituals of baptism, communal meals, and property. Most interesting is the parallel organizational structures: the sectarians divided themselves into twelve tribes led by twelve chiefs, similar to the structure of the early Church, with twelve apostles who, according to Jesus, would to sit on twelve thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Many scholars believe that both the literature of Qumran and the early Christian teachings stem from a common stream within Judaism and do not reflect a direct link between the Qumran community and the early Christians."

[Evolution22]

Jesus was son of MAN..

GOD is the web that connects all things. WE are GOD (law of one)

[Oneness]

I am lead to believe there are angels, demons and to us the UFO phenomenon is the new scam from hell to get people in the sack.
It´been done before the great Flood.


Take both extraneous topics...blend them into one...and the truth is beheld. Our ancestors knew it... we are beginning to remember. The veil between this world and theirs is falling.

[Frank Samuel]

Very well written Mystica, so very true. Some people call this connection of Love being in the direct dominion of Love. Where your actions are guided by your love for God and all things. Most people because of shorcomings stay within the first two definitions you mention. Often missing the true experience they are longing for. This could take perhaps many lifetimes, I do feel that this is a very special time , the accelaration process is at its peak. Many people who follow in the footsteps of the Christ and die on the cross or eaten by lions or worse they could see Jesus right next to them, that is why they were not afraid. The secret is that God, Angels, Jesus, Saints and Sages
are always there, it is us that are deaf and blind. My childhood was not very easy and often I would call for God, asking him to show himself to me, then I heard a voice clearly ringing in my ears, "Frank, Frank, why are you looking for me out there" ? I was shocked and I must admit a little afraid, finally I muster the courage to ask, " what do you mean? " You have been looking for me everywhere, he answer ,I have always been by your side, look within you, there you will find me always by your side. I cry because often times I was angry and felt akward in dealing with other human beings. I've learn to see God within all of us ,the flame is there even if you cannot feel it burning within. Mystica you know that looking within for God is not the same as believing in the doctrine of a particular denomination Jesus did not created christianity man did, It should have been called Jesuism, too bad that so many books about the life of Jesus where burned or hidden in the vatican, the secrets are now in the open if you ask the right questions. Secrets kept for thousands of years, it is right in front of our eyes .:trumpet:

[Mystica]

Very well written Mystica, so very true.

Thank you but I cannot take credit for it.

Some people call this connection of Love being in the direct dominion of Love. Where your actions are guided by your love for God and all things. Most people because of shorcomings stay within the first two definitions you mention. Often missing the true experience they are longing for.

I believe this is the key. I have a small flame within and pray (meditate) daily that it be God's will for it to become stronger and hotter. As it does, life becomes ever more sublime.

WE are GOD

This is the Luciferian ideal and it saddens me when so many people understand so much of the cosmos then fall into the pit of believing they are God. Why do so many honor the creation more than the Creator? Will the Mona Lisa ever paint like Da Vinci?

Amazing blessings come when one has enough faith to hand his free will back to God.

[100thmonkey]

Chrisitianity is not necessarily based on fear of hellfire.

There are three types of Christians:

1. Those that have faith because of rational thought (reason).

2. Those that have faith because of threat of punishment (fear of God).

3. Those that have faith because of love for God.

Jesus taught that the first two - although saved - will never see the face of God. The third is the only brand that will. This is why Jesus said that the most important commandment is to "love your God with all your heart, all your might and all your soul".

Jesus repeatedly told his followers to look within in order to find the Kingdom of God.

Because of this I find your hypothesis lacking.:winksmiley02:?
My hypothesis doesn't exclude yours, however yours makes christianity redundant.

It is possible to follow that third principle without Jesus, to love our Creator without christianity, without the bible, etc.
All the bible story does is add those first two elements... the implied 'or else'.

I'm all for finding the truth within, as were the gnostics.
The original man behind the Jesus story, whatever his name/form/purpose really was, as revered by gnostics, has been hijacked by the man-wranglers into what we see today.

It's the version of Jesus pushed by the bible that has created an 'anti-christ'.

[Humble Janitor]

George Carlin said it best about religion. While I don't have the exact quote, he compared people who believe in God to people who believe in Extraterrestrial Life.

Pastors, Reverends and Popes are revered by society. People who believe in God are respected.

Ufologists, contactees and general believers of extraterrestrial life are shunned, ridiculed and dismissed as quacks.

It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?

[Mystica]

:winksmiley02:?
My hypothesis doesn't exclude yours, however yours makes christianity redundant.

It is possible to follow that third principle without Jesus, to love our Creator without christianity, without the bible, etc.
All the bible story does is add those first two elements... the implied 'or else'.

I'm all for finding the truth within, as were the gnostics.
The original man behind the Jesus story, whatever his name/form/purpose really was, as revered by gnostics, has been hijacked by the man-wranglers into what we see today.

It's the version of Jesus pushed by the bible that has created an 'anti-christ'.

It is likely that the Roman church was either created (or hijacked by individuals) to control the masses. Jesus showed disdain for organized religion and warned repeatedly of it.

There is abundant evidence that Jesus lived, taught and influenced many. There isn't any evidence that he was a story created by the Roman Empire. In the same manner as politics today, the Romans used his story to their own ends.

True Christianity is not learned in a church and is anything but redundant.

In a sense, it isn't any different than following this New Age Guru or that Eastern philosphy. For that matter it isn't any different than believing in the 100th monkey theory. We all choose the path we take. Unfotunately some paths are dead ends.

George Carlin said it best about religion. While I don't have the exact quote, he compared people who believe in God to people who believe in Extraterrestrial Life.

Pastors, Reverends and Popes are revered by society. People who believe in God are respected.

Ufologists, contactees and general believers of extraterrestrial life are shunned, ridiculed and dismissed as quacks.

It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?

I don't take advice on my faith from comedians - but his point about them being one and the same is close. Sure would make it easy if Adam and Eve had cameras. But if it was easy, it wouldn't be worthwhile.

[milk and honey]

From the horses mouth,

http://www.askrealjesus.com/index.html

[Humble Janitor]

I don't take advice on my faith from comedians - but his point about them being one and the same is close.

That wasn't his point. That was my question. I should have clarified. Great man who was more than just a comedian.

[Bernd]

Did you ever listen to Jordan Maxwel's "chief cornerstone (http://www.new-civilization.de/archives/8)"?
This is a concept of Jesus which makes sense to me.
In a nutshell: Jesus is said to be the chief cornerstone, which means the top of the pyramid.
The concept of the pyramid is that you start at the bottom when life begins and that you make your way to the top of the pyramid until you finally reach the chief cornerstone which is spiritual and intellectual elightenment. The final concept of Jesus is one's own enlightenment.

Our religions tell us that it was all “god” who created the universe and us.

Maybe the big confusion, when we discuss theses subjects, is that God and Jesus were made into something “external” (Corinthians, 1, 3.16: “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you”)?

Those people I met, who found God inside, no matter what believes they have, are deeply religious, and a lot of them are fully aware about being connected to the creator and the universe.

Didn’t just this external displacement make us irresponsible concerning our creations and even towards our higher self? Was Jesus not buried in Golgotha, the “place of the skull” (maybe our own head) just because of that? Is it that we don’t find our spirituality because we look outside? (excuse my english)

“You’ve been told many times before Messiah pointed to the door but no one has the guts to leave the temple” The Who, Tommy, Rock Opera

Most of the time people say “my soul”, and by saying “my”, they refer to something external. Apparently this is so meaningless to some, that they sell it at Ebay because they don’t have any use for it.

When we look for God at the outside, then we can also push all the responsibility on him and we can fight wars in his name. What if we would have to take the responsibility for that ourselves?

Do we create this external god to escape our own responsibility?

I find people who do things "in the name of god" most frightening.

[lennonmccartney]

Jesus was an Earth person, not an “extra”terrestrial but a truly “extra-ordinary” person who, through multiple incarnations, had reached a high degree of evolution. He didn’t need to incarnate again but, nonetheless, out of love for humanity, accepted to return in the same manner as a bodhisattva such as “Maitreya” or the Buddha of Compassion might. He did it to share his enlightenment with all and to guide humanity towards the peace and true happiness which are based upon love and service.

It was extremely important for someone of this level to come and remind us about the great expectation that exists on a cosmic level in regards to our planet. For this reason, he returned once again leaving behind his seat as The Great Lord of Shambhalla where he had already been spiritually leading the Great White Brotherhood of Earth in the inner or subterranean world.

Jesus was an extraordinary being that advanced with great effort throughout several lifetimes in our planet. The Messiah had also reached a level needed to accept suffering in his own flesh, actually, Earth’s own purifying pains through extremely difficult tests in the material, moral, psychic and spiritual levels. These supreme tests he was subjected to dealt with the unconsciousness, the lack of understanding, selfishness, ignorance and thoughtlessness of others. In sum, these things are nothing but fear of change and transformation. However, this was the only way to lift humanity from its error and to assist humanity to remember its collective responsibility, demonstrating as an alternative the example of understanding and love synthesized by forgiveness. Jesus’ example became such a force that it even overcomes physical death and grants spiritual power over matter.

Jesus had to set ablaze the emotions of other people, thus initiating a spiritual chain reaction and, stirring them with his attitude and example, into attempting the same, transcending established ways, prejudices, dogmas and everything that decreases freedom of the mind, the heart and the soul. Moreover, Jesus’ life was in itself a lesson on practical and down-to-earth spirituality in which the most profound teaching consisted in reminding us about our place, that seat of honor assigned to us by the hierarchies of the Cosmic Plan.

As we know, Earth unfolds in an alternative time frame with respect to the Real Time of the Universe. Jesus’ presence (also identified as The Lord of Time, due to his mastery and authority over the Fourth Dimension) allowed our world to begin reconnecting the two time frames. The Jesus’ “event” assured continuity in the process and was necessary because events taking place in our world were getting too complicated and were escaping from any possible guidance or control by the extraterrestrial Watchers. As a result, the possibilities for an eventual reconnection were diminishing and this fact could cause a space-time paradox that could have resulted in an immediate suppression of Earth’s time frame and process. For this reason, the request for a volunteer was placed in the higher planes of existence. This volunteer was meant to incarnate and to manifest through his life humanity’s mission, the Cosmic Plan and the cosmic connection, hence, showing the way to follow. This was Jesus’ authentic being.

[777 The Great Work]

Jesus was an Earth person, not an “extra”terrestrial but a truly “extra-ordinary” person who, through multiple incarnations, had reached a high degree of evolution. He didn’t need to incarnate again but, nonetheless, out of love for humanity, accepted to return in the same manner as a bodhisattva such as “Maitreya” or the Buddha of Compassion might. He did it to share his enlightenment with all and to guide humanity towards the peace and true happiness which are based upon love and service.

It was extremely important for someone of this level to come and remind us about the great expectation that exists on a cosmic level in regards to our planet. For this reason, he returned once again leaving behind his seat as The Great Lord of Shambhalla where he had already been spiritually leading the Great White Brotherhood of Earth in the inner or subterranean world.

Jesus was an extraordinary being that advanced with great effort throughout several lifetimes in our planet. The Messiah had also reached a level needed to accept suffering in his own flesh, actually, Earth’s own purifying pains through extremely difficult tests in the material, moral, psychic and spiritual levels. These supreme tests he was subjected to dealt with the unconsciousness, the lack of understanding, selfishness, ignorance and thoughtlessness of others. In sum, these things are nothing but fear of change and transformation. However, this was the only way to lift humanity from its error and to assist humanity to remember its collective responsibility, demonstrating as an alternative the example of understanding and love synthesized by forgiveness. Jesus’ example became such a force that it even overcomes physical death and grants spiritual power over matter.

Jesus had to set ablaze the emotions of other people, thus initiating a spiritual chain reaction and, stirring them with his attitude and example, into attempting the same, transcending established ways, prejudices, dogmas and everything that decreases freedom of the mind, the heart and the soul. Moreover, Jesus’ life was in itself a lesson on practical and down-to-earth spirituality in which the most profound teaching consisted in reminding us about our place, that seat of honor assigned to us by the hierarchies of the Cosmic Plan.

As we know, Earth unfolds in an alternative time frame with respect to the Real Time of the Universe. Jesus’ presence (also identified as The Lord of Time, due to his mastery and authority over the Fourth Dimension) allowed our world to begin reconnecting the two time frames. The Jesus’ “event” assured continuity in the process and was necessary because events taking place in our world were getting too complicated and were escaping from any possible guidance or control by the extraterrestrial Watchers. As a result, the possibilities for an eventual reconnection were diminishing and this fact could cause a space-time paradox that could have resulted in an immediate suppression of Earth’s time frame and process. For this reason, the request for a volunteer was placed in the higher planes of existence. This volunteer was meant to incarnate and to manifest through his life humanity’s mission, the Cosmic Plan and the cosmic connection, hence, showing the way to follow. This was Jesus’ authentic being.

:thumb_yello::thumb_yello::thumb_yello:

[coldevin]

Had a revealing discussion with a Christian. They believe so strongly that you can only be "saved" if you believe in Christ. They also believe that there will be nothing left once were all "judged". And that a new earth will be created.

If Christ did exist, and it seems as though he did, then just what was he?

This is not a religion bashing thread, so please do not be ignorant.

Jesus is still around for sure, I met him through a channeling with "Elyah" (starbeing), and his energy was just over the top awesome, I believe he is in the 8th dimetion now and will not be back for a while. His name is Sananda by the way. Jesus = Sananda :-)

Light nd love
@

[abraxasinas]

Comments by Abraxasinas:

He was an initiate, a descending master, who had an occult task beyond his public life.

Yes, the emphasis is on the 'descent' enabled to 'collect' many previous nonphysicalised archetypes such as Adam, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses and Joshuah in David, first king of Israel following the 'kings and judges' period ending in Saul.


He had to bridge matter with the ether through the astral plane to prepare for the reopening of the universal circuits, therefore paving the way for man to re-connect with reality.

The label 'bridge' is most appropriate - a 'bridge over troubled waters' as Simon and Garfunkle would sing.

Believing or not is irrelevant.

The notion of 'belief' has become displaced by the notion of 'remembrance' and resonating synergy between the encompassing universal Logos and the Logii of the individuations.

People who believe that because they believe they are a done deal, well, its part of their experience.

This universal bridge is now established and it creates great turmoil in the world of the dead, in the astral plane. They fear to lose control.

Indeed, the astral plane has become infused by the wavefunction of the 'ascension' of the 'descension' into particle-nature.

And this will become more and more obvious as mental illness becomes more and more common. It also brings about a quickening of events to enforce death over consciousness.

Now, via this bridge, the individuals can be reconnected from within from their own source.

This is wonderful gnosis Richard T.

The next evolution will be very personal and not collective, for the simple reason that dependency on beliefs will be eradicated as the individual becomes a new initiate, an ascending initiate.

Again, you are 'right on'. 'Blessed are the solitary,...'.

Instead of being led by collective values, he will become the creator of his evolutionary condition.

Yes.

This, of course, will require this individual to put to death all aspects of devolutionary consciousness that have taken residence in his psyche.

Indeed and it will prove very hard to do so for the many.

Life will start from there as opposed to existence.

This is but the scriptural annotation of 'having to become reborn' to enter the kingdom of heaven.

So, all in all, we can say that in a way he saved humanity.

Heshe has become the collective and encompassing humanity, as a cosmic reidentification; so enabling all and sundry to ascend their 3D physical particular selfstates into the 'astral' 4D starhuman self-state.
This will even more 'redefine' the astral lifeforms, which have resided there since the dawn of humanity upon the planet earth.

Abraxas

[Majorion]

It doesn't make sense to me. There's plenty of photos of UFOs but no photos of God.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Or perhaps are they one and the same?
HJ, it all depends on how you define God.

Some people believe that the Universe is God, and we have plenty of pictures there. Some people believe that God can be seen all around us in that 'mother earth' or 'Gaia' is God. Personally, I happen to believe that many religions were inspired by and came from extraterrestrials. Of course no one knows for certain, but its an explanation that in my estimation -- holds more water than the explanation about an actual deity.

Putting religions and the thousand different belief systems aside, I think the only real God is a force all encompassing and timeless and something/someone so unfathomable to our minds, it's almost pointless dwelling on the matter for too long.

Here's something else to think about:
Foundationism (not to be confused with the school of philosophy called foundationalism), is a fictional religion invented by J. Michael Straczynski for his science fiction television show, Babylon 5. Foundationism appeared on Earth around the year 2157 in response to contact with other intelligent species in the universe. Dr. Franklin explains that "the idea behind the Foundation is that to get back to the roots of all the Earth religions, get past the doctrines to the core of each belief system to find out what they have in common. And they've got a lot more in common than you think. It's just when politics and money and nationalism get in the way that things get a little messed up." He also explains that Foundationists believe that "The closer you get to defining God, the further away it gets."Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundationism)

[abraxasinas]

Commentary by Abraxasinas:

Hi there,

Why would you want to take religion away from a person?

Not everyone is at the same place within the time of their personal evolution. People need the support of their religion for the time they need it.

Religion has been a strong regulatory force to civilize a planet that would otherwise have destroyed itself long ago. Even though if yes, I know, religion has been the base for much pain and lies. But the lies come from beyond material man. And the religious are lied to according to their personal need for experience, like those who are beyond religion are lied to according to their personal need for experience.

And that will remain until we, as individuals, are beyond experience to enter evolution and eventually to enter yet another cycle.

Richard T. is expressing great gnostic wisdom here and displays historical nous and synthesis in his statements.
Religion is simply a label for community and the form of a collective enclosure, say a church or house or temple.

As said, without the association of 'religion' with some form of 'communal spirit', the 'mental confusions' of the general populance in groups, clans and individuations would have resulted in even greater self-destruction (due to lack of a unified consistent modus operandi for the 'thinking' about things); than has become effectualized in the 'control mechanics' implemented by the 'rulers and authorities' of those organized religions.

And the astral disembodied intelligences are coupled to the physical planes by necessity to allow the etheric and 'divine' planes to penetrate back into the physical and following the construction of the descent (through the 'fall') originally.
The 'troubles' of a mentally maturing humanity are however always physically implemented by the humans themselves, albeit mentally engaged by and with the astral sentiences or ETs.

These ETs however 'draw' their energy as the IMAGINED thoughtforms IMAGED by the 3D humans. This fact then intrinsically forms partnerships and relationships between the 3D humans and the 4D ETs.

So, we must respect people's right to religion.

Nothing is unknown. But information is not given freely.

Fear is the sole weapon that death has over man. And it is through fear that they possess his mind.

Yes, this can be technically ascertained in the modular duality of superstring couplings forming higher dimensional supermembranes.
There are ony two logical statements required to establish a 1st order polarisation or duality in the lower dimensions.
The two statements are: LOVE LOVE = FEAR FEAR and LOVE FEAR = FEAR LOVE.
The prior statement monadizes or unifies the uncoupled polarity of LOVE versus FEAR in its doubling.
To FEAR FEAR means never to be afraid and to LOVE LOVE means to be In LOVE with LOVE itself.

The latter statement is selfexplicatory, as to FEAR LOVE is to Live in FEAR and to LOVE FEAR is to desire (or feed on as the astral coupling) the experience of FEAR.

More rigorously, this can be defined in a vibratory high energy quantum superstring in 10 dimensions characterising the LOVE Logistics and coupled in Modular Duality to a FEAR characterizing winded (serpentine) low energy quantum superstring in 10D.
Through the modular quantum entanglement however, the 10D individuated halves of superstring become enabled to construct a 11-dimensional supermembrane so extending the dimensional density continuum (metric) by one orthogonalized dimension.

In death, there is a loss of consciousness as we know it while incarnated. It is not an absence of consciousness but a consciousness of another order. It is an active memory principle that is disconnected from the worlds of light.

Indeed, this 'alter consciousness' refers to the release of the 'encapsulated' wavefunction of the winded superstring modality from the 'body prison' AS a vibratory superstring modality.
The problem is that this modus operandi also DECOUPLES the superstrings and so enforces the 'atomic decay' of the previous body gestalt or morphogenetic form.
So the Universal Logos has formed a BRIDGE of 11D encompassment, which will ALLOW the individual 'resurrections' tthrough and by this 'Logos Bridge' or Portal or Stargate.

It is only within matter that the connection can be made, until a body, other than the astral body, lets call it the mental body, has been completed to recuperate the full energy of the memory of the experience that we call the soul. That mental plane is the place to which the bridge leads to.

This is a wonderful summary of what I have described more technically in the above paragraph. The mental plane of Richard T. is the wave catchment of the previous particularised 3D body consciousness as a 'higherD' consciousness. This also can be defined in technical terms (http://tonyb.freeyellow.com/id185.html).


We can lead ourselves from that plane but not from this plane. What people have been calling the 'higher self'. But that is not the wishful ego.

Iow the aspirant is required to work from a higherD perception. Aurobindo (with Mirra Alfassa) has termed this the 'supermind' in the supramentalization of matter and this can also be termed the awakening of the human superconsciousness, which demands its activation from the unified higher-dimensional plane.

What would you say it was that the Nazareen talked about when he referred to his father?

Yes, the 'Father' is the Prime Source who utilizes the 11D as a MIRROR to selfinteract from the nospacetimematter of the VOID=ETERNITY of 12D with the two superstrings of the 10D within the spacetimematter. Again, this is technically defined and so physicalized in all dimensions by and through the Universal Logos.

People don't read by vibration. They read by memorial references. So, they get things explained for them, instead of allowing their own spirit to let them see outside for the forms afforded by thoughts. And thoughts are always restricted, adjusted to memorial matter, therefore the astral sphere.

Yes this is basically true, albeit the label of the 'FORM' is uniquely coupled to the label of 'VIBRATION' by the supermembrane definition given (or better said indicated) in the above.
But generally, Richard T. you do Understand the principalities of the archetypology.

Abraxas

[aroundthetable]

It is good to see so much thoughtful and intelligent and respectful conversation in here. :original:

[Anchor]

I am dumbfounded as to why this thread is in 'off topic' while there exists a thread about saving dolphins in 'spirituality'. That being said, I would like to add this.

I moved it. I realise I am quoting an old post, but it does have a point. I dont know either!

Anyway now this old thread is well and truly alive and kicking again, I moved it to spirituality.

A..

[abraxasinas]

Commentary by Abraxasinas:

Sorry, but no one will take over someone else's karma.

And the karma of the world, as well as the karma of the individuals, still need to be burned. And its no small thing.

The notion of karma requires redefinition generally, as this labeling has become rather restrictive and has gone past its 'use by date'.

In the case of Jesus, the 'dying for the sins of mankind' should become relabelled as the 'PROOF' that the 'Ignorance of Mankind' in regards to its own belief structure of being a 'Doomed Bodily Existence' allows a metamorphosis of this selfsame 'body template/temple'.

Then it becomes appropriate to say, that the 'Resurrection of a PHYSICAL bodyform' following physical death (and which ordinarily is followed by biochemical molecular decay into atomic constituents) has indeed 'swallowed up' the 'karma of an ignorant humanity' - by PROOF and EXAMPLE.

@Merkhava
What is your view on Cain's wife?

Is it not interesting that the Jewish tradition gives precedence to the mother but that in the Adamic case, we start of with the precedence of a man?

Because, of course, Cain for one had to find his wife among those who were already there when Adam and family left the garden.

This statement of Richard T. is rather profound in the 1st order archetypology of the cosmogony.

The genealogy of Jesus in Luke.3.23-38 is matriarchial in the father of Mary being Heli and running to the Nathan-David intersection in the Judahic-Levitical descent.

Corollarily, the lineage of Jesus in Matthew.1.1-16 is patriarchial in Joseph's father Jacob and running to Solomon-David as the generational intersection between actual historical personages and the nonphysical archetypes (David-Saul being this intersection).

Richard T. so may or may not assign physical reality to the Adam-Eve and Cain-Abel-Seth archetypology encoded in Genesis.4.

The 'unnatural' and disharmonizing dependency of archetypical Eve on archetypical Adam can be crystallized easily from the Genesis account itself.

There are two creation events in Genesis.
Adam+Eve are created as a 'Two in Oneness' in Genesis by GOD (not Lord God).

Genesis1:
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Now note that there is NO COMMANDMENT what to eat and what not to eat and such things. AdamEve=Us=Them are the TRUE IMAGE of the True GOD.

Then after this, the sixth day GOD 'retires' for the Sabbath and suddenly the GOD becomes changed to LORD GOD, because ADAM has become GOD in archetype (there is no physical universe as yet).

Genesis2:
2And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Now note, that ADAM is quasi-physically (meaning in say a program of genetics and not as yet as a physical embodiment) created from his AdamEve archetype by the LORD GOD.

The implication then becomes that next EVE becomes dependent on ADAM as one of his ribs and this in effect destroys the prior metaphysical harmony in the creation, say a perfect YX|XY chromosome reflection becoming YX=male and XX=female, the Y+rib=Y+1=X.

This also establishes a direct feedback mirror between Adam as God and his creator Lord God.

The crux of the matter then becomes that the LORD GOD must be a Fake-God WITHIN spacetime confronting a physical Adam+Eve 'mucked up' creation with the REAL GOD remaining in a selfimposed exile outside of spacetime in a Void=Nothingness=Eternity.

The LORD GOD=Image of Adam WITHIN and the LORD GOD=Image of GOD WITHOUT.

A major part of the 'reconciliation of the creator with his creation as her' or the reconciliation of God with Mankind so requires a reharmonization of this original perfect YX|XY supersymmetry.
The agent for this transformation and reconciliation is the Universal Logos aka many names, including Jesus of Nazareth.

Abraxasinas

[Céline]

IMHO

Jesus was a Man who knew the truth...and he had to be silenced...

PS: nice to read your perspective on this threads question abraxas :wub2:

[twoRone]

IMHO

Jesus was a Man who knew the truth...and he had to be silenced...

PS: nice to read your perspective on this threads question abraxas :wub2:

I concur... :thumb_yello:

[abraxasinas]

Hi All!

This message engages the wordings of another initiate, who has posted on this thread. I shall 'colour in' the discourses of Richard T., when so appropriate. Most of the time, Richard T. aka DRACHIR T. {the German word for Dragon translates as DRACHE} presents hisher information very well and requires little input from myself.

If anyone wishes clarification on the meanings of the statements of Richard T., then I shall answer accordingly.


1)Quote:Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge

Does trying to connect with with all dimensions through the focus of intentionally reaching someone's consciousness, have an effect on those that do not wish us to succeed? Do they not like when I do this? Because sometimes I feel like I'm dwelling where I'm not wanted.

Richard T. aka DRACHIR T.:
The ego can do nothing about any of this because of its planetary nature. His job is to increase the vibratory rate of his mentation and his environment is used to challenge him, and at the same time to become intelligent.

The forces are not there to make us intelligent but to shed light on the way. And the way they do this is by opposition. The stronger the opposition, the stronger the potential for integration.

When man has become strong enough to not be swayed by any emotional charge thrown at him by opposition in the experience, then these forces start a process of fusion with what was a mortal being.

The war against man by the dark forces is the war against this process. A war against the process through which the individual's father, his universal source, which is not a 'great all' but a force of creation, which is him on another plane of reality, will start infusing into the mortal using the mind tunnel created by the thought adjuster to alter totally the consciousness from the mental plane down to the cellular plane, effectively removing the light that was invested in material experience on this planet from the dominion of those forces.

To those forces, the presence of such a light as that of man, in matter on this planet, appears to be advantageous. They don't want to lose this advantage, and they are ready to blow the planet up if necessary.

Nothing will happen before it is time.

Abraxasinas: It should be added here, that the 'dark forces' are limited in extent of actual mental infiltration and blending with the human mind by the depth of the subconscious.
This depth simply means that increasing the superconscious capacity to process memory will decrease the astral infiltration of the subconscious.

2) Originally Posted by Richard T:
Hello there,
Each person has an adjuster attributed to him. These are extremely advanced intelligences whose goal is to fuse with the mortal. Those forces have never experienced matter, they are scientists of the energy who work with man using life opposition to create tensions in him. Those tensions are energy potentials that are then used to transform the sub-atomic structure of those bodies, adjust them, in order to perfect them.

The creation of man is not completed. It is a work in progress. But man is led to believe that this is it.

An instruction is not a teaching.

A teaching brings materials that must be learned and believed.
An instruction bids to do as told, and the instructed, by doing what he is told, allows the adjuster to work more efficiently. But for the ego, the instruction quickly becomes knowledge, because he wants to own the material, not realizing that it is not valuable as a memory but that it is useful in the movement it provokes.

Abraxasinas: This is in stark evidence right here on this thread, where the information as a teaching is mistaken as an instruction.

My consciousness is not Morontialized yet. So that it is the adjuster who can travel on his plane, as close at it can to his source, depending on his vibration rate. A cherubin cannot travel like an Arch-angel for instance.

Abraxasinas: There is much to be added here as to the reality and manifesto of what Richard T. terms morontialized. He may have taken this term from the astral channel of the Urantia Book; which is of 3rd order and so NOT as authoritative as the 2nd or 1st order of the data stream.
In the context of usage of Richard T. however; he has associated the appropriate higher order structure to this label of the superconsciousness and as coupled to what many term Christ-Consciousness.
The adjuster is a primary emanation of this Christ-Consciousness; say as in a label of the 'Overself' or the 'Higher Self' or the 'Higher Guides', however subject to graduations in expression.

Because of this, the information can only be transferred, if allowed, by the adjuster. In such a condition, a man cannot say what he wants but only what he must. Because, othersise, he would create much confusion still being affected by the laws of domination at one level or another.

We have an advantage as ascending men because this is a gradual process. The initiates, such as the initiate of Pisces, or that of Aquarius, live an instantaneous fusion process through which all aspect of the personality are destroyed, all memory is removed, and all wishes and hopes of the ego are put in check, creating an extreme mental pain that the average man could not support without being destroyed for lack of an adequate inner strenght.

Abraxasinas: Richard T. here exaggerates the process of the 'instantaneous fusion' of the initiate/avatar a little.
This 'instantaneous fusion' is happenstance in all of you at the point of your physical conception in a data transfer from the genetic libraries of your patriarchial and matriarchial lineages.
But as said, the human life experience serves the gradual implementation of the 'higher purpose' as decided by the 'adjuster' aka your 'higher self' directly coupled to the Christ-Consciousness.


The universal status of an individual cannot be known from down under but can only be known from up and into the intimate relationship between the source, the adjuster, and the mortal who has lost his humanity to become a man. Such information will never be given to an individual who can still fall to the laws of domination. Astral, planetary consciousness will never be allowed to escape this plane into the realms of light.

This is the first time in the universal annals that such a process is recorded. This creates great interest and turmoil among the material races and the hierarchies who suddenly are turning their eyes toward this globe and would hope to interfere to fulfil their own agendas.

The enabling factor is part of the personal secret that is guarded by the adjuster. The planetary ego cannot change things, but he can prepare the terrain.

Abraxasinas: You may emphasise the word 'PERSONAL SECRET' - all of you have an adjuster and carry such a 'Personal Secret'.
So it becomes rather superfluous to 'test' others like myself as to your 'secrets' as so many have done here on this thread.

The integration process depends on inner strenght that allows facing opposition. The end of a cycle, such as the one we are in today, creates conditions that are ideal for a man with inner strength to face the music without falling prey to his animal condition.

Abraxasinas: I am in gratitude to all of you for your supports and your oppositions - perhaps some of you can begin to envisage the 'greater agendas'.

What do you mean by: "should I stop indulging substances that affect my matter?"

All substances that affect the psychic web and man's perceptions interfere with his natural mechanism, albeit everything you do was already known would be done. Drugs can only open the way to the astral web. They have created an awareness of the reality of other planes of reality but it was limited to the astral and its lies and manipulations.

Thoughts is the most fundamental aspect of the lie to which we have been submitted.

Man does not think. Thoughts forms are fundamentally induced interferences that come from the dead.
Thought energy is fundamentally communication from the adjuster.
The brain is a radio, it does not produce thoughts, it receives them. And the ego is fooled into believing it is him who is thinking because of the use of the subjective form, the 'I', to which he is too quick to identify.

Until the day when the adjuster, the cosmic double, can reveal himself, and that thoughts are replaced with communication, allowing the adjuster to instruct man and take charge of his evolution, forcing him to face the reality of his multi-dimensionality, that before was kept at a philosophical level.

Abraxasinas: Your individuated transformation from old human to new starhuman allows the higher self to merge with your lower self iow.

So, what can be done is to live one's life aware of this, knowing that all events that oppose the wishes of the ego and arouse his insecurities are simply there so that a work can be done on those planes of which he is not readily aware but of which he has the intuition.


3) Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge
hello,
A work in process indeed. What about love? Will I have to let that go as well? When in love I realize how human I am. This cannot be good for the infusing process, as I am constantly drawn back to it.
Morontialized? I may ask questions like a fool. But I can assure you I am not.



Richard T.:
Hi,
Love is a fundamental principle that is being infused in the universe. It is one of 7 Alephs, or principles, to manifest and the third. The other two are intelligence and will.

Abraxasinas: There are more classification systems, but the three major ones relate to the Thuban Principalities as well as the Kabbalah, say as say Keter-Hokmah and Binah:

1.Keter or Crown is the Khu of the Spirit and the 'Tree of Life as Djed or Phallus of Osiris'
2.Hokmah or Wisdom is the Ab of the Heart and 'Throne of Isis'
3.Binah or Intelligence is the Sahu of the Masculine in the 'EyeMirror of Horus'
4.Hesed or Love is the Ba or Soul of the 'Sistrum of Bast'
5.Gevurah or Power is the Ibis or Mind of the 'Caduceus of Thoth'
6.Tiferet or Beauty is the Sekhem of the Feminine in the 'EyeMirror of Hathor'
7.Nezah or Endurance is the Ka of the Double of the 'Astral Chalice of Nephthys'
8.Hod or Majesty is the Ren or Name of the 'Mason's Tool of Ptah'
9.Yesod or Foundationis the Khaibit or Image of the 'Shadow of Anubis'
10.Malkuth or Kingdom is the Khat or Body and the 'Tree of Death as Yoni or Vulva of Set'

The SEPHIROTIC TREE OF LIFE also known as MOSES' SAPPHIRE TABLET ; then partitions those ten archetypes into a male, say left stem and a female right stem, parted in a middle stem, centred on the 'unclean sexes' of the 69=96.

Love is not a psychological value. But the astral body vibrates to its energy and promotes emotions.

This means that love on this globe is not fundamentally real.

Abraxasinas: Notice this all of you as warriors of the love and the light!


LOVE is a VIBRATORY RESONANCE described in a GAUGE SOURCESINK-PHOTON in its supersymmetric selfcoupling under modular duality and which can be defined in its own resonance eigenstate as:
E*=kT*=hf*=hc/λ*=m*c²=1/e* for Unity E*e*=1 and its coupling parameters.
Energy*=Heterotic Supermembrane HE(8x8)=EpsEss
=√{2πGome2/4αhce2}=[me/mP]/2e√α=GODDOG=DOGGOD


This is the selfstate for a love vibratory resonance, which created the universe!



Its infusion will coincide with the advent of the access to intelligence and will without which there can be no real love.

For the time being, what we call love is based on the insecurity of the ego, whether sexual or emotional depending on the gender, and of the recuperation by the astral of the concept of love into a spiritualized form adopted by the soul, which emulates the work of the Nazareen. This spiritualization comes from the intelligence of man and his lack of real will.

Love is an energy that renders free, whereas will is an energy that dominates. To render free, one must have no fear of losing. And fear of losing brings the urge to dominate.

There is no point in adopting any kind of attitude in regard to this. To be informed is enough, since as soon as we are informed, work can start being done on other planes.

Abraxasinas: Allow me to emphasise the 'Being Informed Enough'; this is my one and only agenda on your behalf. It does NOT mean that any of you need to UNDERSTAND what I am sharing - YOUR INDIVIDUAL ADJUSTER UNDERSTANDS and this is sufficient onto itself.


4)Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge:
Very well then. I will remember that when we meet again. :lightsabre: (lame attempt at humor)
These 7 alephs. Are they manifested in all universes? Is love truly unique in origin? Now that this has been introduced into the universal archives can other races incorporate it? If they can than it must be through a descending energy correct? Will there ever be a balance between those with intelligence and those of true light?

Richard T.:
What I know is that it is manifested in this universe and is a relatively new manifestation. I can't really talk about other universes. Love is a fundamental principle. It is a universal energy. It is not a state of mind. But it is an energy that can be channelled, although if it were channelled through man's physicality as it stands, he would find it extremely painful.


Abraxasinas: LOVE is a VIBRATORY RESONANCE described in a GAUGE SOURCESINK-PHOTON in its supersymmetric selfcoupling under modular duality and which can be defined in its own resonance eigenstate as:
E*=kT*=hf*=hc/λ*=m*c²=1/e* for Unity E*e*=1 and its coupling parameters.
Energy*=Heterotic Supermembrane HE(8x8)=EpsEss
=√{2πGome2/4αhce2}=[me/mP]/2e√α=GODDOG=DOGGOD


This is the selfstate for a love vibratory resonance, which created the universe!



It will imcumb to man to use love to allow information to be made available to those races whose evolution is controlled by other races who have vibratory ascendancy onto them.

Love is an energy that shares.

Abraxasinas: The Council of Thuban is SHARING its database as its one and only agenda.

The various races in the universe work out of the principles of intelligence and will, not love. Their societies are based on the principle of fraternity.

An example of such system is the failed and miserable caricature that is communism on this planet. A system that sought to enslave its people, not free them.

Democracy, as we know it, is a miserable caricature of freedom afforded by the energy of love. Miserable because it is way too infiltrated with agents of domination for one and two because the individuals themselves are too psychologically dependent on the system, making them lazy and keeping them in a state of expectation, instead of all of them being the pillars of their society.

But this system is nonetheless the closest thing to what you call Christic spirit that exists in large organized societies.

Love cannot be alone, like intelligence and will cannot be alone. They represent the current trinity of the energy.

Races access universal archives based on their relative rate of vibration. The energy is hierarchically differentiated as it penetrates the planes of reality. In order to access the highest orders of the world that is the universal archives, the rate of vibration must be extremely high.

And access to higher vibrations means access to higher vibration of sciences.

The hierarchies who control the information based on their universal status will not let go of their power, because at that level infomation is the power. This is why intelligences in the universe are limited in what can be known to them and forced to work according to the information that is allowed to filter down to them.

Abraxasinas: Indeed, but as said before, the 'Tree of Life' as the 'Serpent-Rod' of Thoth aka Moses defines the ET order to dedichotomize at the 5th dimension/density level. All higher dimensionalities utilize the unified polarities as internal processor to allow galactic and extragalctic experience to function WITHIN a context of a Harmonized Duality.

When man has a consciousness that is morontial, he will have a vehicle that won't allow him to simply travel the astral plane but a unique vehicle that will allow him to travel as a consciousness to all the worlds from his origin to the ethers and access levels of science that cannot be imagined and cannot be accessed even by those races that visit us today.

Abraxasinas: Imagine and analyse the scriptural evidence of the 'Resurrected Logos' and you may be able to evisage what your 'new morontial' lightbody will entail as a higherD merkabah kerneled by your present physical temples.

But it is not important to think about such things.

What is important is for us to realize that we have been lied to, that we have descended to the bottom of the vibration scale, and the result is a loss of consciousness equivalent to the loss of access to information, and that this will be reversed in the times to come. And that he should use the opportunities created in his experience by the strong oppositions to his well being to increase his vibration so that one day he is capable ans sufficiently strong to receive the shock of his reality.

Abraxasinas: The lowest vibration becomes the Tail swalled by the highest vibration of the Head and in recircularising a linearised spacetime quantum continuum with beginnings and ends.

In any case, man cannot know the future. He could not take it and would refuse it. It is the only reason why he does not know what lies ahead for him as an individual.

Abraxasinas: Thank you Richard T. for an excellent discourse into the higher dimensional cosmology.

AA

[Jonah]

Yes, this can be technically ascertained in the modular duality of superstring couplings forming higher dimensional supermembranes.
There are ony two logical statements required to establish a 1st order polarisation or duality in the lower dimensions.
The two statements are: LOVE LOVE = FEAR FEAR and LOVE FEAR = FEAR LOVE.
The prior statement monadizes or unifies the uncoupled polarity of LOVE versus FEAR in its doubling.
To FEAR FEAR means never to be afraid and to LOVE LOVE means to be In LOVE with LOVE itself.

The latter statement is selfexplicatory, as to FEAR LOVE is to Live in FEAR and to LOVE FEAR is to desire (or feed on as the astral coupling) the experience of FEAR.


This explains why fear is always immediately countered by thoughts of love for the fear bringing agent..

[14 Chakras]

My understanding:

Jesus was a man, born of Joseph and Mary (who was "Pure" not a virgin) through intercourse. He spent his youth studying spiritual teachings, traveling abroad to learn in places like India and Egypt, even being initiated into the mysteries of Egypt and the ways of the Hindus in the East. However, like any earnest seeker, not finding what he was looking for, not finding the fullness of the infinite.

Then, when he followed his inner voice and was baptized by John, an immense amount of Light descended and Awakened him to his True identity: an individualization of the infinite within it's creation!

Jesus was also awakened to your and my True identity during his enlightenment: an individualization of the infinite within it's creation!

I believe Jesus taught enlightenment. He taught us that if we were to surrender our seperate self, to be reborn in Oneness with the Father consciousness within us, that we too would do the works that he did and greater works than these we would do.

I believe Jesus was a man who became enlightened, taught spiritual freedom, the Truth that will set us free in Oneness ~ and was persecuted by the scribes and the pharisees because if people listened to Jesus and truly awakened to their own inner God Power Wisdom and Love, who would need these phony religious gurus and religions anymore? No one. Therefore, they had him put to death.

And Jesus, being a Christ Being to prove his point, showed the world 3 days later, that even death is an illusion and when you give up the ghost of the human ego, you are reborn into Life eternal, the Life of the Christ consciousness.

[abraxasinas]

Hi All!

This message engages the wordings of another initiate, who has posted on this thread. I shall 'colour in' the discourses of Richard T., when so appropriate. Most of the time, Richard T. aka DRACHIR T. {the German word for Dragon translates as DRACHE} presents hisher information very well and requires little input from myself.

If anyone wishes clarification on the meanings of the statements of Richard T., then I shall answer accordingly.


Continued from #107:

Originally Posted by Richard T
5)Hello Vorian.

I ask if I make sense to insure the door is opened to opposition. Otherwise, it would be like saying that it is so and you must learn from me.

There is a universal law that says that it is impossible to be intelligent alone. Communication is to allow people recognize they can access intelligence. Unfortunately, people use communication to prove they are intelligent, or to question and seek intelligence in others.

Technically, we should learn from what we say. When I say something, I should be learning something. And this is possible if we realize that we access intelligence rather than think we are intelligent.

And if we do not believe what we say, we ask others to validate through their own access to intelligence.

Sometimes, I wonder if what I say is helpful or if it actually mixes people up.

How is the weather down there?

Cheers.

6)Originally Posted by Richard T
Earth consciousness is currently under the laws of domination. It will be in the hand of another origin in the next evolution, but that will not
happen before the end of this cycle.


Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge
Perhaps I was under the impression that both are in store for evolution. And that they would happen together.


There will be a change in vibration of the planet that will coincide with the reversal of its polarity. Astral energies come to the planet by the North pole. As do solar particles that create the aurora borealis effect. This reversal will push those energies away while accepting energies of another order altogether that have nothing to do with the history of humanity.

Abraxasinas: This poleshift will occur in a multidimensional manner. Should the magnetic polarities reverse and stabilize, then the entire electromagnetic structure of the planet would become disfunctional.
So the magnetic polarity shift in 4D Minkowski Spacetime will be accompanied by a 5D Kaluza-Klein 'polarity' shift at the center of the earth.
This latter occurrence allows the 4D spacetime metric of Gaia to become gravitationally collapsed to a golfball sized Black Hole WITHOUT affecting its lower-D manifestation as say a planet with a perimeter of about 40,000 kilometers.

Following this gravitational collapse of the Earth in Hyperspace will be a 'turning inside out' of the golfball sized Black Hole.
The Black Hole will contain the entire history of the Gaian evolution history in a datastreamed form; say as scifictionalized in Star Trek - The Motion Picture in the V(o)yger data collector.
This movie was authorized and channelled from Thuban by the way.

The Black Hole data absorption/concentration will then become a data emitter, rendering the Black Hole Sink in Hyperspace as a White Hole Data Source in Hyperspace and transmitting the absornbed data of the Gaian- and Humanoid history back out into the universe and its trigger Hunab Ku aka the Sagittarius A* RadioQuasar aka the Galactic Center of the Milky Way.
From then on the HUMAN EXPERIENCE will become 'common property' for all ET races and civilizations as a contextual background HOW NOT TO BE a Galactic Civilization.

The Black Hole - White Hole wormhol tunneling will the rereverse the magnetic polarity shift and the electromagnetic viability of Gai will become reset.


Evolution is perhaps not what we tend to think, since we think mechanically based on our history and that we project our own psychological understanding onto intelligences and systems that do not evolve psychologically, such as the Earth. The Earth will rise in vibration because of the energy that will be at the base of man's evolution. And that energy comes from the source of the consciousness of man, that is not god, but that is an energy that is radiated by each individual's source, these radiations being called rays of creation by some.

7)Originally Posted by Vorian's Revenge Are you a finaliter?
If so, and if you don't mind me asking, when do you experiance your fusion flash?

Hi there

Fusion flash, as you call it, only happens for the greatest descending initiates, such as Bernard.

Abraxasinas: Bernard (James of the Wingmakers is another) is another human graduate and on the highest level of human incarnation preceding Dragonhood.

They create the living proof of their words.

Luckily, we don't have to live this absolute torture in such a massive dose, and fusion for the ascending consciousness is a progressive process.

You will notice that I am careful to what I answer when I reply to questions of a personal nature.
Here is why
There is a universal law by which when a person says something, makes a statement using the 'I', events are automatically created to test the reality behind the words.

So, if I say "I would do this or that if this or that happened" you risk being tested in time. Best is not to brag, and really be certain, without any possibility of a doubt, that what is said, is.

Those events become part of the solar initiation of the individual, where he is tested against any and all forms of psychological failure.

Man cannot decide if and when he is contacted from inside.

It is his cosmic counterpart who initiates the movement.

Abraxasinas: Yes, this is the adjuster aka the 'Higher Self' aka the superconscious self coupled to the Christ-Consciousness.

But they find it extremely difficult to communicate with the mortal because of the huge amount of memories, because of the density of astral energy, because of the insecurity of the ego and of his spirituality, and mostly because of the personalization of the reflective process.

The ego must then prepare himself by starting to pay attention.

Abraxasinas: TThis is the Christmas Wish of Thuban.

And paying attention requires him to be aware that all the artifacts that are part of his planetary consciousness are a game to steer his evolution.

This brings him to depersonalized the impressions that result from the experience over time, according to his capacity to support the loss of his false identity, that comes often with the loss of the impression of control over his life, and that has the tendency to create an impression of failure in the ego.

And the ego must realize faith in his reality and know that he is not failing, but that work is being done to increase his vibration.

The less he is impressed psychologically by the experience, the less he implicates himself in the experience, the more the experience can be increased in dosage and the more he is bombarded by thoughts, fears, and soul pulsations, who seek to bring him back to instinctual behavior.

All is a question of internal strength and all is a question of not believing, of not taking one's life seriously, but rather to be serious about it.

Some people cannot watch a movie without being traumatized.

How will they fare when the world collapse around them?

And this is where it comes together.

Man must learn to not be impressionable. Then, as he does his part, he allows the other side to do its part.

Abraxasinas: Many on this forum and thread would be well adviced to take this to heart.


But they do their part on their time, and we must use our time effectively.

As for where we are, we always are where we are supposed to be. But they just don't tell us always.

The only reason why man does not know his future is because he would not accept it, he would feel that life is not worth being lived, and it is extremely important to those forces that man lives the life he is meant to live, until the work is done.

Does this help at all?

Richard


Abraxasinas: One can discern in expectation Drachir TKB.

AA

[4Q529]

IMHO

Jesus was a Man who knew the truth...and he had to be silenced...

PS: nice to read your perspective on this threads question abraxas :wub2:

Well, to me, it is important to specify the Truth that Jesus knew which so infuriated the Jewish religious 'authorities'; that Truth being that he taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth', whereas the Sadducees denied the "resurrection" altogether, and the Pharisees disinterpreted it as the doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave; a doctrine which was then introduced by the Pharisee, Paul, as one of the fundamental doctrines of Christian theology; subsequently osmosing into Islamic theology in contradiction of the Teaching of Mohammed about the Revelation and Doctrine of "resurrection".

[Jonah]

All higher dimensionalities utilize the unified polarities as internal processor to allow galactic and extragalctic experience to function WITHIN a context of a Harmonized Duality.[/B][/I][/I]

When man has a consciousness that is morontial, he will have a vehicle that won't allow him to simply travel the astral plane but a unique vehicle that will allow him to travel as a consciousness to all the worlds from his origin to the ethers and access levels of science that cannot be imagined and cannot be accessed even by those races that visit us today.

Abraxasinas: Imagine and analyse the scriptural evidence of the 'Resurrected Logos' and you may be able to evisage what your 'new morontial' lightbody will entail as a higherD merkabah kerneled by your present physical temples.


Abrax,

So this means man will become the above and the below...


Fathoming such a science would be a unique quality indeed... although I can't help but wonder-

What mysteries are left for such a consciousness?... surely it must contemplate its loneliness..

[abraxasinas]

Abrax,

So this means man will become the above and the below...


Fathoming such a science would be a unique quality indeed... although I can't help but wonder-

What mysteries are left for such a consciousness?... surely it must contemplate its loneliness..

This is rather a general overstatement Jonah.

The morontial bodyform simply hybridizes the present separation between WaveMind and BodyParticularisation or more technically, it creates Spiritmass as a new superatomic structure of the LightBody say.

The individuated consciousness will still be humanoid or better said starhumanoid, then allowing exploration of the universe with a vessel for this consciousness, which is 'immortalized' in a sense that it his no longer subject to the corruption of molecular decay.
It will be a biospiritual hybrid between the present matter definition and electromagnetic fields, the latter becoming static, say as a electromagnetic standin wave oscillating or vibrating as the extension of the present 3D bodyform as a 4D lightbody form/merkabah.

The exploration of the universe can then begin with the utility of a 'New Physics' now often termed ET and able to holographically SCALE the lightpath of the present lightspeed invariance restriction.

The Old Humanity was planetary; the New Starhumanity will be extragalactic and cosmic.

Much interaction with the greater universe will then BEGIN to occupy a unified starhuman consciousness.

AA

[Jonah]

So this type of consciousness evolution has happened before then...?
Will there be telepathic advances other than consciousness say in the 3-4d lightbody?

[abraxasinas]

So this type of consciousness evolution has happened before then...?
Will there be telepathic advances other than consciousness say in the 3-4d lightbody?

No no, this is a unique event which will not happen again, as it manifests a new archetype of the 1st order.
The lower orders of the archetypes are subject not the original one.
What is occurring is like the birth of the FatherMother of all future universes. A new dynasty of GodDoG is being constructed by the LOGOS INTIME as the perfect symmetry of having done this in NOTIME.

Its a Mirror! And yes the telepathic form of communication will become prevalent in the universe (as a protoverse seedling).

AA

[orthodoxymoron]

Here is a related thread which you might find interesting: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13495&highlight=orthodoxymoron

:original: Namaste :wink2: Constitutional :original: Responsible :wink2: Freedom :original: