The Mother Of All Frauds [Archive] - Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE)

View Full Version : The Mother Of All Frauds

Zarathustra

09-21-2008, 07:13 PM

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/

Saturday, September 20. 2008
Posted by Karl Denninger at 23:04

The Mother Of All Frauds

Well now we have it - since this is a proposed bill (public) and in the interests of fair use, here you have it as reported by Fox:

LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL FOR TREASURY AUTHORITY

TO PURCHASE MORTGAGE-RELATED ASSETS

Section 1. Short Title.

This Act may be cited as ___________________.

Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.—The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

(b) Necessary Actions.—The Secretary is authorized to take such actions as the Secretary deems necessary to carry out the authorities in this Act, including, without limitation:

(1) appointing such employees as may be required to carry out the authorities in this Act and defining their duties;

(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;
(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

(4) establishing vehicles that are authorized, subject to supervision by the Secretary, to purchase mortgage-related assets and issue obligations; and

(5) issuing such regulations and other guidance as may be necessary or appropriate to define terms or carry out the authorities of this Act.

Sec. 3. Considerations.

In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for—

(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and

(2) protecting the taxpayer.

Sec. 4. Reports to Congress.

Within three months of the first exercise of the authority granted in section 2(a), and semiannually thereafter, the Secretary shall report to the Committees on the Budget, Financial Services, and Ways and Means of the House of Representatives and the Committees on the Budget, Finance, and Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs of the Senate with respect to the authorities exercised under this Act and the considerations required by section 3.

Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Exercise of Rights.—The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act.

(b) Management of Mortgage-Related Assets.—The Secretary shall have authority to manage mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act, including revenues and portfolio risks therefrom.

(c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.—The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act.

(d) Application of Sunset to Mortgage-Related Assets.—The authority of the Secretary to hold any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act before the termination date in section 9, or to purchase or fund the purchase of a mortgage-related asset under a commitment entered into before the termination date in section 9, is not subject to the provisions of section 9.

Sec. 6. Maximum Amount of Authorized Purchases.

The Secretarys authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time

Sec. 7. Funding.

For the purpose of the authorities granted in this Act, and for the costs of administering those authorities, the Secretary may use the proceeds of the sale of any securities issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, and the purposes for which securities may be issued under chapter 31 of title 31, United States Code, are extended to include actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses. Any funds expended for actions authorized by this Act, including the payment of administrative expenses, shall be deemed appropriated at the time of such expenditure.

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

Sec. 9. Termination of Authority.

The authorities under this Act, with the exception of authorities granted in sections 2(b)(5), 5 and 7, shall terminate two years from the date of enactment of this Act.

Sec. 10. Increase in Statutory Limit on the Public Debt.

Subsection (b) of section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.

Sec. 11. Credit Reform.

The costs of purchases of mortgage-related assets made under section 2(a) of this Act shall be determined as provided under the Federal Credit Reform Act of 1990, as applicable.

Sec. 12. Definitions.

For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply:

(1) Mortgage-Related Assets.—The term mortgage-related assets means residential or commercial mortgages and any securities, obligations, or other instruments that are based on or related to such mortgages, that in each case was originated or issued on or before September 17, 2008.

(2) Secretary.—The term Secretary means the Secretary of the Treasury.

(3) United States.—The term United States means the States, territories, and possessions of the United States and the District of Columbia.

I'm speechless.

Let's disassemble this monster piece by piece.

First, this is a de-facto nationalization of the entire banking, insurance, and related financial system. Specifically:

"(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;"

That's right - every bank and other financial institution in the United States has just become a de-facto organ of the United States Government, if Hank Paulson thinks they should be, and he may order them to do virtually anything that he claims is in furtherance of this act.

This might include things like demanding that a bank or other financial institution sell him its paper, even if it forces that firm to collapse and be assumed by the FDIC!

You didn't buy any bank stocks last week did you?

"(a) Authority to Purchase.—The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States."

This, at first blush, would seem to indicate that only American firms would be covered. Nothing is further from the truth. If the Chinese wish to unload some of their purchased toxic sludge they merely sell it to, oh, Goldman Sachs for 40 cents on the dollar and then Goldman sells it to the Treasury for 50. This, under the black letter of the law here, is perfectly legal, which means that one must assume that Paulson will in fact foist off all the bad paper on world markets that was originally based on a mortgage in the United States, while allowing his banker buddies here to loot the taxpayer by acting as an intermediary in the transaction!

"(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;"

Contracts can (and presumably will) be "no bid, no solicitation" and given to whomever Secretary Paulson favors, without regard to the public interest or normal competitive bidding processes. Must be nice to be a "Friend of Hank."

"In exercising the authorities granted in this Act, the Secretary shall take into consideration means for—

(1) providing stability or preventing disruption to the financial markets or banking system; and

(2) protecting the taxpayer."

Notice which comes first.

"(c) Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.—The Secretary may, at any time, upon terms and conditions and at prices determined by the Secretary, sell, or enter into securities loans, repurchase transactions or other financial transactions in regard to, any mortgage-related asset purchased under this Act."

Having bought these securities for any price Mr. Paulson would like (and he can compel institutions to sell at his demanded price as noted above!) he can then sell those assets at any price he wishes, to anyone he wishes. It certainly is nice to be a "Friend of Hank", and it most certainly sucks if you're not.

"The Secretarys authority to purchase mortgage-related assets under this Act shall be limited to $700,000,000,000 outstanding at any one time"

This is clever and nobody in the mainstream media has figured it out.

If you think the cost of this bill is $700 billion, you're wrong. The cost is actually infinite and the entire bill constitutes a giant money-laundering scheme.

Paulson can (and presumably will) buy up to $700 billion of these "assets", then sell them. Let's say he decides to buy them at 60 cents on the dollar and sell them for 10. You, the taxpayer, will eat the fifty cents, for an immediate cost of $350 billion dollars.

Having done so, he is then authorized to do so again, since the $700 billion is no longer on the government's balance sheet.

In fact, he can do this without limit, other than possibly due to the federal debt ceiling, which of course Congress will raise any time we get close to it. Oh yeah, this bill does that right up front too. No need to bother with it the first time around.

Folks, $700 billion isn't even close to the total cost of this monster.

If Paulson and his successor decide to, they could literally cycle all $5.3 trillion of Fannie and Freddie's debt through this scheme, potentially sticking the taxpayer for 20% or more of the total, plus as much private debt on various bank balance sheets as they can manage to nationalize until (and possibly beyond) the point where the bond market tells him to go to hell.

Bottom line: This bill gives Paulson the ability to nationalize an UNLIMITED amount of private debt and force YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN to pay for it.

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

If you are a bank, investor, or other entity who is forcibly gang-raped by Secretary Paulson due to his actions as "King" (crowned by Congress) under this law, you are unable to seek redress in the courts or by administrative action.

The claim is that this is intended to "promote confidence and stability" in the financial markets.

It will do no such thing.

It will instead strike terror into the hearts of investors worldwide who hold any sort of paper, whether it be preferred stock, common stock or debt, in any financial entity that happens to be domiciled in the United States, never mind the potential impact on Treasury yields and the United States sovereign credit rating.

I predict that if this passes it will precipitate the mother and father of all financial panics, although exactly when the "short bus" riders who inhabit the equity market will figure it out remains to be seen.

If they have an IQ larger than their shoe size it will commence at 9:30:01 AM Monday morning, although given history and the lack of intelligence displayed by the crooning media market euphoria may continue until the first couple of firms are dismantled by Paulson's newly-crowned Kingly powers with the scraps handed out to his favored few.

The best part of this outrageous fraud is that those who get bent over the table can't even sue - their only recourse will be the (literal) deployment of pitchforks and torches.

That Paulson and Bernanke circulated this document, irrespective of what actually gets reported out onto the floor of the House and Senate (if anything) tells you everything you need to know about his intentions and the safety of your financial assets in the United States markets.

That this "proposal" hasn't resulted in Congress calling for both Bernanke and Paulson to resign for their blatant attempt to crown Paulson King tells you everything you need to know about Congressional integrity as well.

My advice: Don't be caught with any stock or debt instruments linked to a United States financial firm in your portfolio past 9:30 AM Monday morning.

MyShadow

09-22-2008, 01:07 AM

There appears to be another conundrum here for Main Street.

Let's say I have one of these crappy mortgages but not in default (I don't but just an example). My bank reviews risk and see's that the LTV is risky due to declining values. My bank decides to cut bait and put my mortgage into the "program". I didn't agree contractually that my mortgage could be "assigned" to the US Gov't and be auctioned off at 50% or whatever. The US Gov't wants to be admonished from litigation if this goes down - so it's between me and the bank.

Lets say I loose in this battle. Then I loose all of my equity, and I loose the property. I'm out on the street. The bank gets 50%, and then the US Gov't gets the property and sells it, maybe later, and gets back the 50% paid to the bank, and makes a profit - which goes back into the system , maybe to address national debt or such. This is all good for the bank and US Gov't - but Main Street is 'f-ed'.

WTF?

This is just more of the Elite scheme at play.

Oh - and here is another sick twist to this. Lets say my bank that holds the mortgage is one of those "failed" banks like IndyMac or such that is now owned by the US Gov't. They could now legally sit there and flip these houses for profit. There is alot of incentive for them to do that - it's a win win for them. But we get 'f-ed'.

WTF?

Z - This is more than the mother of all frauds. It's the mother f-ing fraud of all time.

Sorry - about my f-bombs!

MyShadow

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 01:41 AM

M,

That's what people don't understand, or there would be 50,000 rioting in the streets of N.Y. and Washington tomorrow morning. Not only is it the greatest financial fraud ever executed in the history of this country, perhaps the world, it is being done by those who have "sworn" to uphold the Constitution and protect and serve the people of the United States. As I have said elsewhere, the trials of Neuremburg would be to kind of a fate for these vile, criminal traitors.

Z

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 02:01 AM

United States Code, is amended by striking out the dollar limitation contained in such subsection and inserting in lieu thereof $11,315,000,000,000.

so the 800B can go as high as 11.3T?

Sec. 2. Purchases of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Authority to Purchase.—The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

Well banks are already taking up to a 65% hit on short sales with the current market, by allowing banks to dump this paper to free assets to offer more loans might not be as bad as you are thinking.

The banks are still getting slammed for their mistakes.

The part that could help the current homeowner is this might save many from foreclosure, it's the HELOCs that have nothing to back it right now, and many are almost as large as the original mortgage. the 2nd on a short sale gets a 10% kicker to make them go away, so the banks can toss it to the Fed to get it off their books, taking a 95% hit, but frees up other money they can borrow for other loans. All a homeowner needs to do right now is stop paying the second and keep the first current... This is going to help the collapse of many families falling into foreclosure...

The other thing to notice is this is going to the Treasury, not the Fed Reserve, remember what I was saying about backing a new currency with homes... This move is keeping America, owned by America.

I'm in no way an expert, but I don't see it as bad as the other options they had...

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 02:17 AM

so the 700B can go as high as 11.3T

I have experience in Short Sales lately and know that homes are selling for as little as 35% of what they sold for in 2005-6.

It isn't even the original loans that are in trouble, it is the Home Equity Lines of Credit that are causing the biggest problem.

Many of the original loans are being covered in the sale, but there are HLOCs on many homes as big as the original mortgage.

To Keep people from Foreclosure, with this new bill, they can just stop paying on the 2nd and let the Government pick it up...

The positive side is the Treasury is taking over all of these homes, not the Fed Reserve. What will happen is the market will stop sinking and will turn around much quicker.

I can see the possibility of these 2-3 million foreclosures turning into assets within 1.5-2 yeas.

If the market continued into the free fall it is experiencing, it would reach a point where foreigners could by homes here for several months income.

This step is going to help keep America, owned by America...

but 11.3T... wow...

I must respectfully disagree, Rocky.

First, there is no limit on how high the spending can go, the $700 billion can only carried at ONE TIME, so the Treasury Secretary will be free to fill up that $700 billion "bucket" as often as he wishes.

Second, the difference between the Treasury and the Fed holding the paper is irrelevant, since the Treasury will borrow the money from the Fed to be paid back by the American people, plus interest. The inflationary pressure of AT LEAST 1 trillion, most likely much more, on a defecit spending economy with a total GDP of around 14 trillion will be enourmous.

Third, bad paper is bad paper, switching ownership doesn't alter that fact, your timeline of 1 to 2 years would therefore be valid with a free market handling of the issue, and in my opinion more so.

Fourth, the market was falling because it NEEDED to, it was overvalued, and nothing can ever stop a worthless asset from being valued as exactly that.

Fifth, a huge percentage of our debt IS being carried by foreigners. The buying of our national assets by foreign nations has been in full swing for years now.

This is an open door to fascism, especially when combined with the Patriot Act and subsequent legislation. Thomas Jefferson would need to be hospitalized for uncontrolled vomiting if we to wake today. There is nothing positive for the American people here, unless you consider an even bigger economic crash, which always and inevitably results from these machinations to stop one, and the further devaluing of their currency, and the increase in the already unfathomable mountain of debt heaped upon their already overtaxed backs.

Z

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 02:32 AM

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 02:40 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bank_change
Last major investment banks change status

Great, now they can rape and pillage another market, and recieve FED loans while doing it. This is madness happening right before our eyes!

Would you prefer Bank of America, a Rothschild company buy up both institutions once they are down to penny stock?

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 02:48 AM

Would you prefer Bank of America, a Rothschild company buy up both institutions once they are down to penny stock?

That is assuming that everyone involved is not tied to the Rotschild's.

What I would prefer is that fascism not be installed in this country. I can't remember who said it, someone will have to look it up, but one definition of fascism I have read is "profits are private and losses are social". What needs to happen is a clearing of the house on a scale that hasn't occurred on this continent since 1776. In lieu of that, companies that fail end. Companies that succeed live on. They reap the reward when things work out, and they lose when they don't. Of course there are economic ramifications for everyone if a large company goes bankrupt, but if there is anything viable, the market will fill that hole, if there isn't anything viable, then the company should've failed earlier.

What is going on now is madness, and worse the American people are being led to believe it is for their benefit. It is directly for the benefit of the Rothschild's, Rockefellers, etc.. etc... ad nauseum, and their vassals that call our "leaders". Nothing good can come from this.

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 02:53 AM

I

bad paper is bad paper, switching ownership doesn't alter that fact, your timeline of 1 to 2 years would therefore be valid with a free market handling of the issue, and in my opinion more so.Z

Well remember, each dollar a bank has, can turn into 9 x as much in loans, for a bank to hold a bad mortgage, they have to put money aside in reserve to cover it, which takes away 9 times as much in loan capability, that is why they are willing to dump short sales quick at a 65% loss.

If they sell off these loans to the treasury which pays 35% of what the home is worth, once the market swings back up, it can be sold for double quite easily turning into a profit to cover the original expense.

The money has dried up for buyers to get homes, which is crashing the value of home prices, in San Diego, our Medium has dropped 38% since last year.

Without money banks would have to raise rates so home prices would have to drop even further for them to be affordable in today's market.

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 02:59 AM

Well remember, each dollar a bank has, can turn into 9 x as much in loans, for a bank to hold a bad mortgage, they have to put money aside in reserve to cover it, which takes away 9 times as much in loan capability, that is why they are willing to dump short sales quick at a 65% loss.

If they sell off these loans to the treasury which pays 35% of what the home is worth, once the market swings back up, it can be sold for double quite easily turning into a profit to cover the original expense.

The money has dried up for buyers to get homes, which is crashing the value of home prices, in San Diego, our Medium has dropped 38% since last year.

Without money banks would have to raise rates so home prices would have to drop even further for them to be affordable in today's market.

*Fractional reserve banking is one of the principle causes of this mess, combined with a privatized central bank creating fiat currency for the government to be paid back by the people, with interest

*Assumes the market will go up

* home prices must, and will, crash, because they are too high

* rates should be higher, and would be without the self intersted manipulation of the FED, and house prices dropping further is exactly what should, and will inevitably happen

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 03:00 AM

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 03:05 AM

I had rewritten my first post, one thing I want bring up is this, The part that could help the current homeowner is this might save many from foreclosure, it's the HELOCs that have nothing to back it right now, and many are almost as large as the original mortgage. the 2nd on a short sale gets a 10% kicker to make them go away, so the banks can toss it to the Fed to get it off their books, taking a 95% hit, but frees up other money they can borrow for other loans. All a homeowner needs to do right now is stop paying the second and keep the first current... This is going to help the collapse of many families falling into foreclosure...

Once the property does sell, the Fed has a lien on it for the 5% plus whatever fees involved which once again can turn into a profit...

The banks are still getting slammed, but dumping bad debt and getting it off their books helps the whole institution.

Again, assumes the market will go up, and I repeat, those companies should fail, it would ease the INEVITABLE crash. The artificial manipulation will only intensify and prolong it, as history shows clearly. There is no benefit to the American public short, medium, or long term, though many will watch tv and believe so. The last part of your post describes what is going on here, the bankers will helped, along with their politician vassals.

fascism = profits are private, losses are social

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 03:11 AM

* rates should be higher, and would be without the self intersted manipulation of the FED, and house prices dropping further is exactly what should, and will inevitably happen

Well because you can currently buy homes at 35% of their value 2 years ago, they don't have much further to fall. New home builders have stopped because they can no longer build a home for as cheap as the market has fallen.

Much of our economy and jobs are tied to building new homes.

Imagine if new homes stop for 5-10 years, once they are ready to start building again, there won't be anyone with recent experience to do it, they will have moved to other professions. The largest builders we have, will have gone bankrupt, folded up and gone away...

Since you are knowledgeable in so many areas, what is the answer?

What would you do right now this second to turn things around?

We were 500 trades from a complete collapse of the banking system.

QUESTINY

09-22-2008, 03:16 AM

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 03:16 AM

Again, assumes the market will go up, and I repeat, those companies should fail, it would ease the INEVITABLE crash. The artificial manipulation will only intensify and prolong it, as history shows clearly. There is no benefit to the American public short, medium, or long term, though many will watch tv and believe so. The last part of your post describes what is going on here, the bankers will helped, along with their politician vassals.

fascism = profits are private, losses are social

again, we were 500 trades from a complete collapse of the banking system.

The FDIC would have been empty by last Thursday and everyone in America would have had no money. No food, no gas, no clothes, nothing...

Complete collapse of America...

if this measure is just a finger in the dike, at least it is giving us time to put other options together...

QUESTINY

09-22-2008, 03:17 AM

ASIC has suspended the Australian market open pending an announcement.

QUESTINY

09-22-2008, 03:19 AM

Posted for fair use

Alan Kohler
Australia blows up the hedge funds
Last update 6:17 AM, 22 Sep 2008

Australia’s stunning ban on all short-selling is a revolution that will likely flow around the world in a series of dominoes from tomorrow.

The global hedge fund industry will effectively be shut down overnight.

The business of securities lending will also shut down.

The way that equities markets have operated for more than a decade will suddenly and fundamentally change from this weekend.

Once the US Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) banned all short-selling of financial stocks on Friday – naked and covered – the Australian market was facing an impending tsunami of short-selling by hedge funds looking to lay off long positions and take leveraged bets on the downside.

France, Germany, Ireland, Switzerland, Canada, and the UK have followed the US in banning all short-selling of financial stocks. They had little choice. Asian markets will also have little choice but to follow Australia tomorrow in extending the ban to all stocks.

The danger inherent in being the only market in which the world’s long-short hedge funds are allowed to operate is simply too great. It would be like being the only person with a bleeding cut swimming in shark-infested waters.

{--snip--} http://www.businessspectator.com.au/...cument&src=sph

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 03:20 AM

Well because you can currently buy homes at 35% of their value 2 years ago, they don't have much further to fall. New home builders have stopped because they can no longer build a home for as cheap as the market has fallen.

Much of our economy and jobs are tied to building new homes.

Imagine if new homes stop for 5-10 years, once they are ready to start building again, there won't be anyone with recent experience to do it, they will have moved to other professions. The largest builders we have, will have gone bankrupt, folded up and gone away...

Since you are knowledgeable in so many areas, what is the answer?

What would you do right now this second to turn things around?

We were 500 trades from a complete collapse of the banking system.

*whatever the current percentage of home value loss, it has much further to go, probably to mid 90's levels or lower, because only then can the American whose wages have DECLINED can afford them with a fixed 30 year mortgage at interests rates that MUST be higher to stave off inflation. That and the current glut of UNSOLD houses all but guarantees that this will happen no matter what the FED and Treasury does.

Let the crash occur, it will anyway, these moves simply will make it more painful and it will last longer. Abolish the FED and return the nation to a debt free no fiat currency regulated by Congress as the document known as the Constitution mandates. Because of the criminals who have gotten us here, and we go all the way back to the year 1913 here, there is nothing to prevent severe, severe economic times. What we shouldn't do is 1) make it worse, and 2) do so while turning the nation into a fascist nation, where companies keep profits while the common man pays the losses.

Again, the crash will happen, the privatized central banking system combined with fractional reserve banking has boom and bust as its ONLY outcome. We must take the pain, and then abolish the system that got us here. Or we can relive the experience of Germany in the 30's and 40's.

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 03:21 AM

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/21/11359/7555/652/605498

Daily Kos
Wall Street bailout plan explained, universally reviled

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 03:22 AM

Z and Rocky. The dollar and our markets are getting hit hard because of a rumor that Russia and China are spearheading a Eurasian currency partially backed by gold and oil. Gold up, Dow futures down 171.

wow silver is back up 60c since I bought coins on Friday, turned 2K into 4.2K in a week.

I felt like the old wild wild west days leaving with a big ol cloth bag filled with coins...

anyone know if the Russian market opened up today, or are they still closed?

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 03:24 AM

FLASHBACK - Bernanke says sub-prime crisis could cost $100bn

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26656750

QUESTINY

09-22-2008, 03:25 AM

Yes it did and their market soared 30% in the positive!!!!!

The Russian Market

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 03:29 AM

Z and Rocky. The dollar and our markets are getting hit hard because of a rumor that Russia and China are spearheading a Eurasian currency partially backed by gold and oil. Gold up, Dow futures down 171.

Wow I just realized what this means, Backed by oil means we will finally be able to move forward with free energy inventions. The government will no longer want to burn what is backing currency

Gold is understandable, but Oil is burned through at millions of barrels a day, that means overnight, Saudi Arabia is one of the richest countries in the world...

But couldn't we do the same thing by measuring the amount of oil we have including the oil fields in Alaska and offshore?

This is going to suck down the China money surplus very quickly, they import most of their oil...

We won't be speaking Chinese...

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 03:32 AM

Yes it did and their market soared 30% in the positive!!!!!

The Russian Market

incredible, so they made up their losses from last week in moments after opening...

do they have a ticket to watch their markets?

Love/Light 13

09-22-2008, 03:32 AM

It is obvious that the world is done with the dollar. China, Russia, and probably most of Europe for that matter are sick of dealing with US demands over the past 200 years. anything resembling the gold standard would be a step in the right direction.

Anyone read David Wilcock's new post on divinecosmos.com? He states that August 16th was significant because the Russian military seized a truck loaded with Rothschild/Illuminati documents. Wilcock states that the documents included code keys to a plethera of information.

Z or Questiny....have you heard anything on this?

also, not sure about the oil idea at all.........lets get off the oil addiction in every sense of the imagination!!

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 03:33 AM

Yes it did and their market soared 30% in the positive!!!!!

The Russian Market

I'm sure Paulson's promise to include foreign banks in his plan has something to do with that.

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 03:40 AM

http://www.reuters.com/article/email/idUSNWEN838420080922

Goldman Sachs to be regulated by Fed

PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - Goldman Sachs Group Inc (GS.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) said on Sunday it would become the fourth largest bank holding company and would be regulated by the Federal Reserve.

Goldman said it would move assets from a number of strategic businesses, including its lending businesses, into an entity called GS Bank USA that would have more than $150 billion in assets.

GS Bank USA would be one of the ten largest banks in the United States, with assets that are fully funded for term and available to funded by the Federal Reserve.

Goldman said it intends to grow our deposit base through acquisitions and organically.

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 03:41 AM

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 03:42 AM

Love/Light 13

09-22-2008, 03:47 AM

FROM DIVINECOSMOS.com

August 16, 2008. Just another day? Or not?

Multiple "crop circle" formations — using solar-system diagrams and other unique methods to count time — flagged this date as being of great importance.

Wait… what? "Nothing happened on August 16th," you may say.

Not so. August 16th appears to be the defining day where a vast treasure-trove of highly classified CIA / New World Order documents were seized out of abandoned US/Israeli spy trucks in Georgia.

Insider reports reveal this has created nothing short of a full-blown panic state within the neoconservative ranks of the White House. Here is one of the earlier examples:

http://www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a2871.htm

Washington, D.C., September 1, 2008: “ When the Russians chased the Georgians back into their own country, our government took great fright and ordered all American troops out of the area.

Some of these troops took part in the attack on South Ossetia and Washington was afraid that Americans and Russians would start shooting at each other.

As this could lead to immediate war breaking out between the two countries and as Russia has the ability to nuke the **** out of us; (unlike other small countries we habitually threaten and bully) we ran like frightened deer.

We also left behind all kinds of highly compromising documents, code machines, etc. to keep Russian military intelligence for days. They did capture Israeli intelligence people and by report, treated them very brutally. The Russians must have been reading Bush’s orders on torture!

Anyway, there is genuine terror in the halls of the Department of State, the Pentagon and the White House that terrible things could emerge. Guess what, kids? They will."

QUESTINY

09-22-2008, 03:48 AM

L, that is news to me, post more if you find it...

Hi Love and Light. This is how I understand what happened. There was two CIA agents that were taken into custody by the Russian military during the Georgian Conflict. One of the agents had the documents you refer to taped to the mans back. These documents talked about the plan to invade not only Iran but Pakistan through Georgian air bases and to fly over Turkey. The documents also detailed the plans for the Ukraine's role.

The agents are still in the custody of the Russians. Putin gave Bush an ultimatum. If Bush didn't go with the demands made by the Russians than damaging information would be released. That Ultimatum ended today. We will see what takes place over the next week regarding War strategy based on this.

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 04:03 AM

I'm sure Paulson's promise to include foreign banks in his plan has something to do with that.

hmmm, now that Putin has let the info be released, is there any reason to cover all banks, that isn't what the "plan" states anyways...

(a) Authority to Purchase.—The Secretary is authorized to purchase, and to make and fund commitments to purchase, on such terms and conditions as determined by the Secretary, mortgage-related assets from any financial institution having its headquarters in the United States.

They put a date of Sept 18th on it, so maybe they will have a way to monitor paper being sold into us institutions and come back with a oops sorry, can't cover those...

We still haven't seen the final...

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 05:07 AM

hmmm, now that Putin has let the info be released, is there any reason to cover all banks, that isn't what the "plan" states anyways...

They put a date of Sept 18th on it, so maybe they will have a way to monitor paper being sold into us institutions and come back with a oops sorry, can't cover those...

We still haven't seen the final...

True. Remember "foreign" banks include China, Saudi Arabia, and Japan, and if those countries begin dumping their dollars and dollar denominated paper on the open market it's 1929 before you can blink.

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 05:20 AM

link (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/business/22paulson.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&oref=slogin)

Democrats Begin to Set Own Bailout Terms

WASHINGTON — Congressional Democrats began to set their own terms on Sunday for a plan to rescue the nation’s financial institutions, including greater legislative oversight of the Treasury Department, more direct assistance for homeowners and limits on the pay of top executives whose firms seek help.

The Democrats’ demands came as Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. blanketed the Sunday talk shows to promote the Bush administration’s $700 billion bailout package, emphasizing that it was needed not just for Wall Street, but for all Americans. He urged Congress to move swiftly to approve a “clean” rescue plan without tacking on extra programs.

“I hate the fact that we have to do it, but it’s better than the alternative,” Mr. Paulson said on “Fox News Sunday.”

The Bush administration proposal could be the largest government bailout of private industry in the nation’s history, and it calls for nearly unfettered powers to the Treasury secretary. There is intense pressure to pass a rescue measure quickly because the markets remain jittery.

Still, competing interests were already complicating the negotiations, as Democrats pushed for assistance for distressed homeowners and for oversight authority of the bailout program. Some lawmakers also said they did not want to be rushed into approving extraordinary new powers for the Treasury secretary and the government without full consideration of the consequences.

On Sunday, Mr. Paulson defended the plan and the administration’s decision to expand it to protect foreign companies and authorize even wider latitude to buy assets other than those that were backed by mortgages.

Representative Barney Frank, the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, put forward the Democrats’ proposed changes to the administration’s plan. They would give the Treasury secretary the authority to set “appropriate standards” for compensation of senior executives whose companies sell troubled assets to the government.

Under a so-called claw-back provision, the secretary would have the power to force companies to recoup previous payments to executives of companies involved in the program. And Mr. Frank’s plan would give broad authority for the Government Accountability Office, an investigative arm of Congress, to audit and oversee the program.

Senator Jack Reed, Democrat of Rhode Island, has proposed a provision that would grant the government warrants to purchase stock in companies that participate in the bailout plan, so that taxpayers might be able to profit should the firms flourish after selling their bad debts to the government.

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 05:32 AM

R,

What's your take on those quotes?

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 05:36 AM

R,

What's your take on those quotes?

Jack Reed's plan is a must have...

Paulson should have his nuts cut off for his proposal to bail out everything, this is for mortgage protection, investors making bad moves should suck it up.

I think capping top Salaries and taking back income is a definite, for the crooks that made this mess.

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 01:45 PM

Bob Chapman's latest article, a must read to understand what is going on here....

http://www.theinternationalforecaster.com/International_Forecaster_Weekly/Half_a_Trillion_Bailout_For_The_Creators_of_the_Ma rket_Crisis

Half a Trillion Bailout For The Creators of the Market Crisis
Posted: September 21 2008

US Mortgage bailout at half a trillion, Loss of confidence means end of credibility in the markets. Phony wars, phony values in real estate will cost all of you, financial companies bought out, power consolidated in financial markets, Gold on the rise, stock markets as volatile as a drunken sailor, why are the markets rallying after the big bailout

We recoil in disgust at the way these arrogant sociopaths, the henchmen of the Illuminati at the Fed and in our Treasury Department, led by Bernanke and Paulson, respectively, are taking the toxic waste losses of the Wall Street fraudsters and dumping them on the taxpayer sheople, while short-squeezing savvy investors by selectively prohibiting and prosecuting shorts of any kind for the stocks of about 800 financial institutions through early October, which all deserve to be shorted. Between the Byzantine dollar rally, the Saudi crude oil assassination, the peppering of precious metals by pernicious paper-hangers (wasn't Adolf Hitler a paper-hanger at one time?) and the short-squeeze on financials, we wonder how many more hedge funds are going to go under, and take everyone else with them in the process, as Lehman gets cannibalized just in time to rack up mark-to-market losses for the sheople to eat in the latest bailout bonanza for the fraudsters, soon to be revealed as the Resolution Trust Company II solution?

Bailing out the toxic mortgages found among the half of US real estate mortgages held or guaranteed by Phonie and Fraudie, some 5+ trillion worth, was not enough for them. Now, they want to pawn the rest of the toxins from the other half of US mortgages, which they estimate will be about a half a trillion. Gee, didn't they tell us the Iran War would cost 60 to 200 billion, only to find out later that when you add in future costs for veteran's disabilities and pensions, the cost could top 3 trillion? And didn't Bernanke tell us that the fallout from the subprime situation was contained? Of course, that was before we saw fraudsters around the world eat $350 billion and counting. And didn't all the fraudster CEO's keep telling us that their walking dead zombie companies were sound and liquid right up to the time that their shareholders got vaporized? Aren't you starting to get a little tired of all the lies? Can we trust even a single word spoken by anyone from Wall Street, the Fed or our "beloved" Treasury Department anymore? The Street, the Fed and our government now have ZERO credibility. This loss of confidence is going to take the markets down no matter what these reprobate and sociopath elitists do.

You will eat multiple trillions of dollars from each of the following: (1) The phony War on Terror; (2) the loss in real estate values caused by record inventories that will be created by defaults and foreclosures resulting from rampant unemployment, loan fraud, over-leveraged consumers and ARM and Option ARM resets; (3) the combined bailout of Fannie's and Freddie's share of the toxic waste contained in the approximately half of all US mortgages which these cess pools have made or insured, plus the losses from the Resolution Trust Company II bailout of the toxic waste from the remaining half of US mortgages; (4) the shortage in the FDIC's insurance reserves that will be generated by losses incurred on account of what will be anywhere from 1,000 bank failures, as suggested by billionaire Wilber Ross, to perhaps as many as half of all banks in the US, as recently suggested by Ken Lewis, CEO of Bank of America; (5) the PBGC's funding shortage to cover losses suffered by pension plan beneficiaries on account of pension under-funding caused by what will be the loss of as much as half of the value of all US equity shares; (6) the bailouts likely to occur when the credit default swaps and interest rate swaps, along with the entire bond market, go under in what will be the greatest bear market of all time in both bonds and derivatives, which are guaranteed to occur based on the hyperinflation that will be caused by all the other bailouts just listed, as well as by our continually burgeoning budget and trade deficits, the resulting double digit interest rates which will become necessary in order to combat inflation and to properly reward risks, which are about to escalate in astronomical fashion, and to attract foreign investment, which will soon drop to nil based on negative rates of return; (7) the loss in purchasing power due to hyperinflation generated by 1 through 6 above; and (8) the new wars for profit that will be started in order to restart our vaporized economy in the wake of the death and destruction caused by 1 through 7, above, and you can also add in the costs associated with potential social unrest and revolution that are almost certain to occur. When number 6 above comes to fruition, the entire world economy will implode and go into deep depression. None will escape the coming juggernaut of losses when the glowing, quadrillion dollar Derivative Death-Star goes supernova. The entire world economy will get sucked into the resulting financial black hole.

The Resolution Trust Company II will be rammed down the throats of Congress, just like (1) the Federal Reserve Act that has been used to inflate the middle class out of its wealth by imposing a stealth tax which is used to fund profligate government spending and enrich private banker's with their debt-based fractional reserve system of banking; (2) the passage of the US Income Tax, which is used to enslave and impoverish US citizens and to ensure payment of the US Treasury's debt to the Federal Reserve on its treasury paper; (3) the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act by the Gramm, Leach, Bliley Act, which is what paved the way for the speculation, fraud and conflicts of interest that always arise when commercial banks and investment banks are allowed to be merged under one entity, as we just saw happen with Bank of America when it bought out Merrill Lynch, and this poisonous piece of legislation is what allowed the Illuminist bankers to pawn off the toxic waste which their investment banking division created for its investment banking clients, after getting fraudulent AAA ratings from the ratings agencies, on their hapless, sucker-dupe commercial banking clients; (4) the passage of the toxic Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which freed the then fledgling OTC derivatives market, including credit default swaps and interest rate swaps, from the regulatory power of both the SEC or the CFTC, leading to an out-of-control, unregulated, under-collateralized, quadrillion dollar volcano of smoldering, molten risk that no one understands in terms of its scope, its interrelationships and its counterparty risks, and now these financial weapons of mass destruction threaten the worldwide financial system; (5) the passage of the Iran War resolution based on Bush Administration lies regarding Saddam Hussein's supposed weapons of mass destruction and involvement in 911, which has led us into yet another bloody war for profit under the guise of security, democracy and freedom, and which has resulted in the killing of millions of Iraqi civilians and thousands of our soldiers (move over Hitler, Mao and Stalin, the Illuminati and their neocon henchmen are just getting warmed up as they take their shenanigans to the Balkans); (6) the approval of both Patriot Acts to help us fight the evil Osama Bin Laden and the phony "War on Terror" while dismantling our Constitutional rights; (7) the approval of the Military Commissions Act which makes all dissenters into "enemy combatants" and takes away their right to habeas corpus; (8) the passage of the John W. Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2006, which repeals Posse Comitatus, meaning that our military forces can now be used against our own citizens for the first time in our history, and contrary to our Constitution; and (9) the Fannie and Freddie bailout, which was just authorized so the fraudsters can dump their slime on taxpayers in a futile attempt to save their precious system of Ponzi-schemes and insider trading which is becoming unraveled right before their eyes. This is why all incumbents, except for Ron Paul, must be voted out in November.

The House Finance Committee, headed by Rep. Barney Frank, and the Senate Finance Committee, headed by Sen. Christopher Dodd, will give it their usual Boo-Boo, response: "I don't know, Yogi," in order to give the clueless sheople the appearance that they are going to protect taxpayers from the slimy bankers, when the reality is, it is already a done deal and has been planned long in advance, probably for many months, if not years, just like the Patriot Acts. What you are seeing happen right before your eyes is the revenge of the Illuminati for the passage of the Glass-Steagall Act. Not only have they repealed that act, but now they have reverted our system back to the way it was when the Stock Market Crash of 1929 occurred. This is why Bank of America jumped all over Merrill Lynch, and why you are hearing continual overtures for Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley to do the same, with claims that their business models are flawed. The fane-stream media now tells us that we need such combinations to give our financial institutions greater strength and staying power in the face of a crisis, when it is such combinations that are responsible for creating the crisis in the first place. This is the classic Hegelian Dialectic on steroids: first create the crisis, and then propose the predetermined solutions, stuffing them down everyone's throats, if necessary. If you want to see institutions that will automatically be deemed to be too big to fail the next time they defraud the public, just check out the gargantuan financial behemoths that will emerge out of the current crisis!

Note how this was all set up. First, all the legislation was put into place. Then the system is brought into a crisis situation, which was easily accomplished through deregulation, in order to propel us into a situation where the Illuminists are allowed to consolidate their power with the full blessing of the dopey sheople. Note how Bear Stearns was assassinated just before the Fed opened up its Primary Dealer Credit Facility and its Term Securities Lending Facility, which could have saved BS. They arranged to have BS's clients abandon them and withdrew BS liquidity and credit, and down they went, payback for not helping in the LTCM bailout and for not joining the Illuminist club. Then they string out all the other big commercial and investment banks, to see which ones would turn out to be the keepers, because the carnage was so bad and so widely spread that no one could tell which of the big commercial and investment banks might survive, if any. They needed time to figure out who the survivors would be. Hence, all the desperate bailouts dripping with moral hazard were made to keep them all afloat while they were attempting to make this determination. They decide to let Lehman fail because their condition is irredeemable and it looks like criminal charges may come up at some point due to shenanigans that management committed against their employee's pension money, making them a hot potato. They pair up Bank of America with Merrill Lynch, and we see JP Morgan Chase and possibly Wachovia pairing up with Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley, respectively. Wachovia and Morgan Stanley are already in talks for a merger. AIG is being preserved to see if they can be fit into the consolidation scheme once all their problems have been sorted out.

To support the survivors, they then announce the Resolution Trust Company II bailout, kill all shorting of over 800 financial companies, and then spew out money and credit throughout the international banking system in amounts that are nothing short of spectacular. This is an outrageous, unbelievable, unprecedented consolidation of power, which flies in the face of free markets and paves the way for an ever-burgeoning corporatist, fascist police state. Hanky Panky wants to give the Fed sweeping regulatory power over this new group of behemoths who will control everything, while occasionally allowing crumbs to fall off their table for the little guys to gobble up. And there will be far fewer of the little guys to worry about after the carnage in the banking sector has finally ceased.

This is not a sure thing for them. The fraudsters remaining, even the big guys, could still fail, that is how bad this situation has become. The Illuminati are quaking with terror that they have overdone things and that they could end up destroying the whole system irreparably. That is why we are having all these bailouts stuffed down our throats.

Gold and silver went on a moon shot this week, with gold setting a new all-time record for a one-day increase in value. That is what happens when you keep pressing on the lid of a pressure cooker, trying to keep boiling, molten precious metals from escaping. Aiding gold and silver was the unraveling of longs in the USDX futures market, who were forced to cover because they had pushed the dollar up as far as it could go. Suddenly, the 93,701 contracts of open interest on Tuesday were reduced to 52,872, being cut virtually in half. That means the dollar rally is over and the ever more desperate bailouts are going to undermine confidence in the dollar. Soon, all these trillions in bailouts may lead to a downgrade of our treasuries, as our debt load will soon reach unsustainable levels, no matter how much the PPT tries to manipulate the markets. The stupidest dolt should be able to figure out that much.

The stock markets are shooting up and down with unprecedented volatility, bobbing and weaving like a drunken sailor as the PPT tries to fight the gravity created by the financial black hole created by the collapse of the Bailout Death-Star and the total lack of confidence of market players who are finally starting to realize that CEO's, Treasury Secretaries and Fed Chairmen are little more than pathological liars, and that the markets are rigged in ways that make China and Russia green with envy. Look at the condition of the Russian and Chinese stock markets, which are being vaporized, compared to ours, which has been placed in a state of suspended animation by the PPT anti-gravity machine. Hey Russia, and China, take some notes. We'll show you what it means to be a died-in-the-wool Marxist/Communist state! And we lead by example, so pay attention. Remember, the satanic trillionaires that run our command economy from behind the scenes are the ones who set you up and financed you. They are the true masters of Communism and Marxism! You guys are amateurs!!!

Do you really think the markets are rallying because everyone is impressed with the new string of bailouts? All the pros know where this is leading us, and they are de-leveraging. If you want to know why the markets are rallying, besides tens of billions of dollars being unleashed from the repo pool for insidious and in-your-face manipulations, check out the yen. At 9 am on the 16th, it was super yen, at 103.650 yen per dollar and 147.592 yen per euro. Now suddenly, despite the dollar crash, the yen has wimped out, and as of 2:25 pm on Friday, it stood at 107.065 against the dollar, and at 154.653 against the euro. Rally mystery solved. Let's get ready to rumble!!!

The members of Pink Floyd become prophets for America. Thanks to all the Illuminist lies the sheople have been injected with, the Goldilocks Matrix remains in tact. Yes indeed, you have all become "comfortably numb.

"O.K.
Just a little pinprick.

There'll be no more aaaaaaaaah! But you may feel a little sick.
Can you stand up? I do believe it's working, good. That'll keep you going through the show

Come on it's time to go.

There is no pain you are receding

A distant ship, smoke on the horizon.

You are only coming through in waves.

Your lips move but I can't hear what you're saying.

When I was a child

I caught a fleeting glimpse

Out of the corner of my eye.

I turned to look but it was gone

I cannot put my finger on it now

The child is grown,

The dream is gone.

I have become comfortably numb."

Group: Pink Floyd; Album: The Wall; Song: Comfortably Numb
We hope and pray that the dream is not yet gone, and that Americans get a fleeting glimpse of our former glory and greatness, and that they wake up and stop allowing these scum-bags to have their way with them.

RIP Richard Wright

idunno

09-22-2008, 01:52 PM

M - Daddy Cool (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgemkqLRing&feature=related)

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 02:33 PM

The $700 Billion Bailout: One More Weapon of Mass Deception

By Richard W. Behan, AlterNet. Posted September 22, 2008.

The American economy needs help, but there are other, far more equitable ways to accomplish it.
Not since the Bush administration's lies about Iraq's "weapons of mass destruction" have the American people been so despicably misled.

The Bush administration's proposal to buy, with taxpayers' money, $700 billion of toxic liabilities from the corporate financial titans of Wall Street is a fraud. It is by no means necessary, as Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson claims in the agency's Fact Sheet, "to promote market stability, and help protect American families and the U.S. economy."

It is necessary only to assure the financial survival of Wall Street banks and brokerages, the administration's most loyal supporters and its greatest political contributors -- and in large measure the cause of the financial meltdown the country is facing...

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/99707

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 02:36 PM

Well speaking from the bloodline of Washington...

It's time for a Tea party!!!

Zarathustra

09-22-2008, 02:59 PM

Well speaking from the bloodline of Washington...

It's time for a Tea party!!!

A f#$%ing men !!

Rocky_Shorz

09-22-2008, 03:13 PM

Gold and Silver are spiking up, I guess we know the answer to what investors think of this bailout...

Silver is up a Buck since I bought back in on Friday...

idunno

09-22-2008, 03:26 PM

Odd Timelines?

Even and Odd Numbers (http://www.aaamath.com/g25a2-evenodd.html)

Another Timeline Oddity.... (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message70908/pg20)

RubyTuesday

09-22-2008, 04:05 PM

Odd Timelines?

Even and Odd Numbers (http://www.aaamath.com/g25a2-evenodd.html)

Another Timeline Oddity.... (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message70908/pg20)

I don't normally visit GLP but that timeline thread just blew my mind. Thank you for sharing that- lots to think about.

vettman

09-22-2008, 04:55 PM

From Stewart Swerdlow's "Illuminati News" section:

September 22, 2008
USSA

Last night, the US government in effect, nationalized the financial investment system. This was done on a Sunday night, quietly, like the Nazis and Soviets used to do.

This means that the US government is now in control of all the money in America. This makes it quite simple to introduce the Amero, the new money, when the time comes.

Next, the automotive industry and then the airlines will all be nationalized. Welcome to the United Socialist States of America-USSA.

Rocky_Shorz

09-23-2008, 10:17 PM

RaKaR

09-23-2008, 10:28 PM

Hi Rocky_Shorz,

I don' t think there is much wrong about socialism or rather a social oriented policy, as long as it remains righteous, open and in the best interests of the People.

What should actually matter is the agenda behind the steps being mentioned.

Do you know something about that?

Regards,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Greg10036

09-23-2008, 10:51 PM

(2) entering into contracts, including contracts for services authorized by section 3109 of title 5, United States Code, without regard to any other provision of law regarding public contracts;
(3) designating financial institutions as financial agents of the Government, and they shall perform all such reasonable duties related to this Act as financial agents of the Government as may be required of them;

Sec. 5. Rights; Management; Sale of Mortgage-Related Assets.

(a) Exercise of Rights.—The Secretary may, at any time, exercise any rights received in connection with mortgage-related assets purchased under this Act.

The American citizen has the right of free angency guaranteed by the US Constitution. Free agency is the ability of ANY citizen to make and break contracts at will. This bill undermines constitutional rights and erases personal property rights, the right to ownership, in America. All mortgages would be owned by government with technically a permanent lease on any American property to which government holds the mortgage (which will be most in the country.)

The loss of free agency would go beyond the bounds of just the mortgage scam. Employee negotiations with corporates would cease to exist and a true form of corporate slavery would ensue, with associated less wages than people are already making and more hours required on the job. Job safety would decline.

America is designed as a constitutional republic and is now on the verge of becoming a true social democracy. Even if this thing goes through, it cannot last long. We are not just ending an era, but an age. After ten thousand years, our avenue of exchange (money) is over. Our methods of creating energy the way we have for the last 200 years is over. Energy and Exchange, the two Big E's. This is a painful period we are going through, from one age into another. We are about to leave puberty and enter young adulthood. We are getting ready to join the Galactic Neighborhood. Keep the faith. Take care of yourself and your family as best you can. Ask your guardian angels to protect you. Love and Peace.
Greg

Greg10036

09-23-2008, 11:08 PM

This means that the US government is now in control of all the money in America. This makes it quite simple to introduce the Amero, the new money, when the time comes.

I have read several economists writings and they are saying that because of the simultaneous trashing of the Canadian dollar and Mexican Peso, government might have to use the International Money Fund SDR as a default form of exchange. Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia defining the SDR:

"Special Drawing Rights (SDRs) is a potential claim on the freely usable currencies of International Monetary Fund members. SDRs have the ISO 4217 currency code XDR.

SDRs are defined in terms of a basket of major currencies used in international trade and finance. At present, the currencies in the basket are the euro, the pound sterling, the Japanese yen and the United States dollar. Before the introduction of the euro in 1999, the Deutsche mark and the French franc were included in the basket. The amounts of each currency making up one SDR are chosen in accordance with the relative importance of the currency in international trade and finance. The determination of the currencies in the SDR basket and their amounts is made by the IMF Executive Board every five years."

RaKaR

09-23-2008, 11:09 PM

Thanks Greg, well said!

I guess, we shall go back to the basic Human Values, adapt of extinct.
Anyway, it could not keep on going the way it has been going; the resources of Mother-Earth are not endless - specially with regard to the ways we have been misusing them.
The poor, but magnanimous thing, is sick, hurt and disappointed by us, Humans and our irresponsible behavior.

When one thinks that it is the only Home we got!

Regards,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Zarathustra

09-24-2008, 02:30 PM

I like the new layout, it should help in keeping the areas straight in where we should be posting.

Now that the agreement is being reviewed, what is everyone thinking?

Does anyone think it will ever pass, I see the trenches building already.

Much of what I was thinking to make it viable is already agreed upon...

World markets are ruffled seeing it isn't a blanket bailout covering them too...

I am sure it will pass, with the appearance of compromise, which will be meaningless, because the net effect - fascist control of the economy by the exective - will have been achieved. And the bill will deepen and lengthen the economic troubles, which will lead to more centralization, etc... just as the Patriot Act, also passed because of misguided fear, led to more unconstitutional legislation. Paulson and Bernanke told Congress that trouble was imminent if they didn't pass this bill quickly. This has been interpreted as a warning. Not true! It was a threat, because the Fed, at the behest of the administration, is the root cause of the problem, and can pull the trigger to worsen it if it so chooses, by artificial manipulation of fiat money and interest rates. Any American who thinks that this act of treason will benefit them in the short, medium, or long term is deluding themselves.

Hi Rocky_Shorz,

I don' t think there is much wrong about socialism or rather a social oriented policy, as long as it remains righteous, open and in the best interests of the People.

What should actually matter is the agenda behind the steps being mentioned.

Do you know something about that?

Regards,

RaKaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Therin lies the central problem R. The agenda is is to destroy the dollar and the middle class of America along with it, while simultaneously turning the nation into a fascist state. Memorize the Constitution now because soon it will exist only in memory.

RaKaR

09-24-2008, 09:42 PM

Hello Zarathustra,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this matter.
Well, i guess it is up to the People to stand up now. And We are The People!

Regards,

RakaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Zarathustra

09-24-2008, 11:14 PM

Hello Zarathustra,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this matter.
Well, i guess it is up to the People to stand up now. And We are The People!

Regards,

RakaR
www.futureofmankind.co.uk

Amen

GenerationIke

09-25-2008, 12:07 AM

Shall we make the tea Earl Gray? I'm DEFINITELY ALL FOR another American Revolution. And I'll be your Patrick Henry. As for me and my house, "Give me Liberty or give me death!" My grandparents came over here with nothing and struggled here for years. I honor them by stepping up to take this country back for the next generations they came here to give freedom to.

I am totally and completely disgusted with what has happened. How many of you saw former President Clinton on the daily show with Jon Stewart. I don't think I've seen anyone so pi$$ed off and so ready to shout from the rooftops about how badly we have been abused by this administration. Even though many have stuff against him and Hillary, too.

I also watched Oprah's show with Suze Orman. And that woman could hardly contain her anger either. She got down and dirty and told the people like it was. It is time for us to stop our spending and start living within our means. And she said it to the audience,"what THIS United States government did to You!" She made no bones about it.

Both were very good shows, if you can, catch either one on the net.

http://www.comedycentral.com/

http://www.oprah.com/index (tues show Sept 23)

eugene_vn

09-25-2008, 12:47 AM

Even before any congressional deal has been made, details are already starting to emerge of behind-the-scenes activities by the Fed and the major banks to help themselves to major heaps of cash. This just in from Elliott Wave International:

http://www.elliottwave.com/freeupdates/archives/2008/09/24/$138-Billion----Just-Inferences,-We-Hope.aspx:

$138 Billion -- Just Inferences, We Hope
Lehman, J.P. Morgan, The Fed and Citi (and $138 billion)

By Robert Folsom
Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:30:00 ET Email | Print | RSS | My Updates Bookmark and share It!

It may seem like a long time ago, but it was only Monday of last week (Sept. 15) that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy; the equally big news was that the Federal Reserve declined to bail Lehman out.

I've read several details regarding Lehman's demise and learned some interesting facts. The bankruptcy filing was "pre-dawn" on the 15th, according to Bloomberg. The filing document is available in pdf form on the internet: it names Lehman's largest unsecured creditors, and the dollar amounts of their claims.

"Citibank, N.A., as indenture trustee" is listed as Lehman's largest unsecured creditor, with a claim of "Approximately $138 billion" in "Bond Debt."

Following Lehman's filing, J.P. Morgan transferred $138 billion in two payments to Lehman Brothers -- $87 billion on Sept. 15th and $51 billion on Sept. 16th. Bloomberg reported that the transfer of funds was "keep financial markets stable," and to settle Lehman's "securities transactions with customers...and clearance parties, according the [court] filing."

After these transfers, also according to Bloomberg, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York made two subsequent payments to J.P. Morgan: $87 billion on Sept. 15th and $51 billion on Sept. 16th, for a total of $138 billion.

Lehman's bankruptcy court filing said that J.P. Morgan's $138 billion transfer to Lehman was "At the request of... the Federal Reserve Bank of New York." I have not been able to find an explanation -- in media reports or from the Federal Reserve -- of why J.P. Morgan needed to be a party to the $138 that Lehman received, and that the Fed transferred.

I'm also unable to find an announcement from the Fed that it was making the transfer.

One could infer that J.P. Morgan was used as a third party in order to avoid the perception that the Fed was assuming $138 billion in obligations that were in default upon Lehman's bankruptcy -- despite the Fed's statements regarding not bailing out Lehman

Once could also infer that such an action by the Fed was specifically a $138 billion bailout of Citibank, which was the dollar value of the Lehman-issued bonds Citibank held. Citibank issued a Sept. 15 press release saying that its "role in this issue is administrative in nature and does represent exposure for Citi to Lehman." The statement did not identify who or what owned the $138 billion in bonds.

I hope that more facts become available showing that the inferences are mistaken, and I invite journalists and others to bring any such relevant facts to light.

Zarathustra

09-25-2008, 01:59 PM

The criminals are looting everything they can before the fire they set consumes the house..

Zarathustra

09-25-2008, 02:39 PM

Bailout Could Deepen Crisis, CBO Chief Says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092402799.html?nav=hcmodule

Triggerpull29

09-25-2008, 04:13 PM

This **** sickens me. I don't know how we can revolt against this totalitarianism. I think the general populace is too ignorant to be willing to join a revolution, so the next option is to leave the country? I'd like to move to a country that has something similar to the rights given under the constitution but i've no knowledge on foreign countries.

Zarathustra

09-25-2008, 05:15 PM

White House Admits It Drew Up Bailout Months Ago
http://georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2008/09/white-house-admits-it-drew-up-bailout.html

Zarathustra

09-26-2008, 12:55 AM

the entire bailout plan is a pump and dump plan...period....

It is headed by a group of neocon/nazi lunatics led by bush family with ties to the clinton's/fed reserve banksters & includes most of the bribed congress....all of which are hell bent on enslaving the people & children of the us

wake up
wake up
wake up

yes

Gareth

09-26-2008, 01:11 AM

Rocky_Shorz

09-26-2008, 03:51 AM

http://www.elliottwave.com/freeupdates/archives/2008/09/24/$138-Billion----Just-Inferences,-We-Hope.aspx:

$138 Billion -- Just Inferences, We Hope
Lehman, J.P. Morgan, The Fed and Citi (and $138 billion)

By Robert Folsom
Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:30:00 ET Email | Print | RSS | My Updates Bookmark and share It!

It may seem like a long time ago, but it was only Monday of last week (Sept. 15) that Lehman Brothers filed for bankruptcy; the equally big news was that the Federal Reserve declined to bail Lehman out.

I've read several details regarding Lehman's demise and learned some interesting facts. The bankruptcy filing was "pre-dawn" on the 15th, according to Bloomberg. The filing document is available in pdf form on the internet: it names Lehman's largest unsecured creditors, and the dollar amounts of their claims.

After these transfers, also according to Bloomberg, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York made two subsequent payments to J.P. Morgan: $87 billion on Sept. 15th and $51 billion on Sept. 16th, for a total of $138 billion.

Lehman's bankruptcy court filing said that J.P. Morgan's $138 billion transfer to Lehman was "At the request of... the Federal Reserve Bank of New York." I have not been able to find an explanation -- in media reports or from the Federal Reserve -- of why J.P. Morgan needed to be a party to the $138 that Lehman received, and that the Fed transferred.

I'm also unable to find an announcement from the Fed that it was making the transfer.

This might answer a few questions

Re: Who Owns the Federal Reserve?
N.M. Rothschild , London - Bank of England
______________________________________
| |
| J. Henry Schroder

| Banking | Corp.
| |
Brown, Shipley - Morgan Grenfell - Lazard - |
& Company & Company Brothers |
| | | |
--------------------| -------| | |
| | | | | |
Alex Brown - Brown Bros. - Lord Mantagu - Morgan et Cie -- Lazard ---|
& Son | Harriman Norman | Paris Bros |
| | / | N.Y. |
| | | | | |
| Governor, Bank | J.P. Morgan Co -- Lazard ---|
| of England / N.Y. Morgan Freres |
| 1924-1938 / Guaranty Co. Paris |
| / Morgan Stanley Co. | /
| / | \Schroder Bank
| / | Hamburg/Berlin
| / Drexel & Company /
| / Philadelphia /
| / /
| / Lord Airlie
| / /
| / M. M. Warburg Chmn J. Henry Schroder
| | Hamburg --------- marr. Virginia F. Ryan
| | | grand-daughter of Otto
| | | Kahn of Kuhn Loeb Co.
| | |
| | |
Lehman Brothers N.Y -------------- Kuhn Loeb Co. N. Y.
| | --------------------------
µ
| | | |
8
| | | |
Lehman Brothers - Mont. Alabama Solomon Loeb Abraham Kuhn
| | __|______________________|_________
Lehman-Stern, New Orleans Jacob Schiff/Theresa Loeb Nina Loeb/Paul Warburg
------------------------- | | |
| | Mortimer Schiff James Paul Warburg
_____________|_______________/ |
| | | | |
Mayer Lehman | Emmanuel Lehman \
| | | \
Herbert Lehman Irving Lehman \
| | | \
Arthur Lehman \ Phillip Lehman John Schiff/Edith Brevoort Baker
/ | Present Chairman Lehman Bros
/ Robert Owen Lehman Kuhn Loeb - Granddaughter of
/ | George F. Baker
| / |
| / |
| / Lehman Bros Kuhn Loeb (1980)
| / |
| / Thomas Fortune Ryan
| | |

Zarathustra

09-26-2008, 01:38 PM

Why doesn't someone seize all the assets of the Bilderberg's, Rothschild's & Illuminati, as well as the gangsters running the Federal Reserve - they caused the mess - make them clean it up!

TPTB are afraid of that very thing happening, that's what make them paticularly dangerous right now. This is a situation we must pass through, because they are an enemy that can never be mollified, they must be confronted sooner or later.

Zarathustra

09-26-2008, 02:49 PM

Prestigious Group of 192 Economists - Including Nobel Prize Winners - Slams Bailout

http://www.prisonplanet.com/prestigious-group-of-192-economists-including-nobel-prize-winners-slams-bailout.html

The Dallas Federal Reserve Bank President, Former Treasury Secretary, Head of the Congressional Budget Office and Leading Economists All Slam Bailout

http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-dallas-federal-reserve-bank-president-former-treasury-secretary-head-of-the-congressional-budget-office-and-leading-economists-all-slam-bailout.html

RaKaR

09-26-2008, 04:55 PM

Hi GenerationIke,

I completely agree with your view.
We are Co-creators, we can change ourselves and the World, for the Reality is but what we choose, decide, think and do/or refrain from doin.
What is once done, could also be undone.

Thanks for the links - truly to the point!

Regards to the Noble Lady Semjase.

Salome.
RaKaR
futureofmankind.co.uk

Rocky_Shorz

09-30-2008, 01:04 AM

http://money.cnn.com/data/world_markets/index.html

US Down 777 - World Markets down 4-8% so far, Russian Market doesn't open for hours...

peaceandlove

09-30-2008, 09:18 AM

The 700 Billion dollar bailout is a nefarious number, most predictions are it will be closer to 2 Trillion or more.

This was a comment posted at Ron Paul's campaignforliberty.com website today. The new and improved campaignforliberty.com debuts tomorrow. Check it out.

Ron Paul introduced a bill back in June to abolish the Fed. You can search for a copy of it on his website: campaignforliberty.com:trumpet:

COMMENT:
EVERYONE LISTEN UP THE VOTE IS MEANINGLESS. THE FED DOES NOT NEED CONGRESS' APPROVAL. THEY STILL MADE 600 BILLION OUT OF THIN AIR TODAY. THE ONLY THING TO STOP THE FED IS TO ABOLISH IT. IN APRIL 2008 GWB GAVE THE FED TOTAL CONTROLL OVER ALL MONETARY POLICY. WE LOST OUR FREEDOM IN APRIL. SITE MANAGER TELL THESE PEOPLE THE TRUTH. THIS VOTE DOES NOT MEAN A THING. HERE IS A LINK IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME. http://www.jbs.org/index.php/jbs-new...ederal-reserve STOP BEING SHEEP.

lucrum

09-30-2008, 09:52 AM

COMMENT:
EVERYONE LISTEN UP THE VOTE IS MEANINGLESS. THE FED DOES NOT NEED CONGRESS' APPROVAL. THEY STILL MADE 600 BILLION OUT OF THIN AIR TODAY. THE ONLY THING TO STOP THE FED IS TO ABOLISH IT. IN APRIL 2008 GWB GAVE THE FED TOTAL CONTROLL OVER ALL MONETARY POLICY. WE LOST OUR FREEDOM IN APRIL. SITE MANAGER TELL THESE PEOPLE THE TRUTH. THIS VOTE DOES NOT MEAN A THING. HERE IS A LINK IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE ME. http://www.jbs.org/index.php/jbs-new...ederal-reserve STOP BEING SHEEP.

Would be even better if the link didn't produce a 404 ;)

Rocky_Shorz

10-01-2008, 04:06 PM

Well remember, each dollar a bank has, can turn into 9 x as much in loans, for a bank to hold a bad mortgage, they have to put money aside in reserve to cover it, which takes away 9 times as much in loan capability, that is why they are willing to dump short sales quick at a 65% loss.

If they sell off these loans to the treasury which pays 35% of what the home is worth, once the market swings back up, it can be sold for double quite easily turning into a profit to cover the original expense.

The money has dried up for buyers to get homes, which is crashing the value of home prices, in San Diego, our Medium has dropped 38% since last year.

Without money banks would have to raise rates so home prices would have to drop even further for them to be affordable in today's market.

Did anyone hear they quietly changed this rule, banks are no longer required to set aside money to cover the whole loan...

They think this one change alone will be enough to keep the banks afloat...

Zarathustra

10-01-2008, 05:00 PM

Did anyone hear they quietly changed this rule, banks are no longer required to set aside money to cover the whole loan...

They think this one change alone will be enough to keep the banks afloat...

A provision of Paulson's swindle, er, plan is to allow banks to reduce their reserve requirement to 0%

Rocky_Shorz

10-01-2008, 05:27 PM

A provision of Paulson's swindle, er, plan is to allow banks to reduce their reserve requirement to 0%

Well that frees 10 times the money of each loan...

I can understand him doing it on the HELOCs, because until the housing market turns around, they are worth nothing. The HELOCs bad paper should be handed over to the Treasury for 5 cents on the dollar, to hold until the market turns around.

So would bailing out each bank be better than just freeing their credit?

for each Nickel these are sold for to the Treasury, the bank can loan 9 times as much, so they instantly recover 50% of what they just lost...

I think this is a pretty quick way to get the wheel turning again.

Zarathustra

10-01-2008, 05:37 PM

Well that frees 10 times the money of each loan...

I can understand him doing it on the HELOCs, because until the housing market turns around, they are worth nothing. The HELOCs bad paper should be handed over to the Treasury for 5 cents on the dollar, to hold until the market turns around.

So would bailing out each bank be better than just freeing their credit?

for each Nickel these are sold for to the Treasury, the bank can loan 9 times as much, so they instantly recover 50% of what they just lost...

I think this is a pretty quick way to get the wheel turning again.

Remember, the Fed has pumped 1.2 trillion into the banking system in the last few days. This legislation is not about the money, at least in terms of helping credit flow. If that were the case the Fed's latest injection would have done the trick. The treasury even admitted that they pulled the $700 billion figure out of thin air. It's about a fascist power grab, one purpose of which is to cover up criminal activity under the "cover of darkness", the other to further consolidate the unitary executive, install fascist economic controls, debase further the balance of the legislative branch, pay off the elite financial illuminists before the real crash of the derivitave and CDS markets (which will be unstoppable with cash injection, since they total over a quadrillion dollars), and as a byproduct the further destruction of the value of the dollar.

We can't get to caught up in the ineffectiveness of the legislation to deal with the credit crunch, because then we take our eye off the bigger picture - this is an unconstitutional fascist power grab!

Rocky_Shorz

10-01-2008, 05:42 PM

Remember, the Fed has pumped 1.2 trillion into the banking system in the last few days. This legislation is not about the money, at least in terms of helping credit flow. If that were the case the Fed's latest injection would have done the trick. The treasury even admitted that they pulled the $700 billion figure out of thin air. It's about a fascist power grab, one purpose of which is to cover up criminal activity under the "cover of darkness", the other to further consolidate the unitary executive, install fascist economic controls, debase further the balance of the legislative branch, pay off the elite financial illuminists before the real crash of the derivitave and CDS markets (which will be unstoppable with cash injection, since they total over a quadrillion dollars), and as a byproduct the further destruction of the value of the dollar.

We can't get to caught up in the ineffectiveness of the legislation to deal with the credit crunch, because then we take our eye off the bigger picture - this is an unconstitutional fascist power grab!

France just retracted their earlier statement...

I'm curious, did they buy stock to inject cash into the system yesterday, or just toss it up in the air to see where it lands?

Zarathustra

10-01-2008, 05:45 PM

France just retracted their earlier statement...

I'm curious, did they buy stock to inject cash into the system yesterday, or just toss it up in the air to see where it lands?

R,

Which statement did France retract?

Waterman

10-01-2008, 05:45 PM

Hey guys have you called the congress today?

Rocky_Shorz

10-01-2008, 05:51 PM

R,

Which statement did France retract?

They were talking of injecting 300B into the Banking system...

I think they are waiting to see what is coming for tomorrow, too many things are coming to a head all at the same time...

I'd like to see If Rothschild is buying or selling right now...

I'm thinking he is holding, knowing with the quantities of stock he owns in each institution he knows if he dumped them on the market they would tank...

I think the Illuminati are taking a pretty hard hit from all of this...

Rocky_Shorz

10-01-2008, 05:54 PM

Warren Buffet is making some pretty bold moves right now...

First he bought a Battery Company with special technology he needs for the Electric vehicle that he is building for 2010. Now he is buying up a huge chunk of GE.

Almost Free Energy is coming...

Rocky_Shorz

10-01-2008, 05:57 PM

Hey guys have you called the congress today?

yep, and I emailed the white house...

Told them I want to be a President for the day because they don't have a clue how to get out of this mess, I'm bringing Zarathustra with me as my economic adviser...

Zarathustra

10-01-2008, 06:02 PM

yep, and I emailed the white house...

Told them I want to be a President for the day because they don't have a clue how to get out of this mess, I'm bringing Zarathustra with me as my economic adviser...

He he... I'll need a few hundred pairs of leg irons and a guillotine :)