Bring back avalon to the original state - please!!!

[King Lear]

I urge you knights of Avalon,
bring back the Avalon Forum to its original state!

Otherwise I fear, it will die.
After only 2 weeks.


Before it was a maket place of ideas, information and inspring discussions and now it's like a ghost town.

Many members already posted that they want to delete their account, leave the forum or don't post any new information anymore.


It's ridiculous that so many interesting and well visited threads are now closed - "read only"

Don't kill your own child Avalonists!!!
Bring it back to the original state!

[Racsouran]

Some threads i posted wen deleted....

so what they do expect on how people have to talk?, only on a superinformed and supermature level?. Im far from that level of seriousness.

At least this exposes the forum and the creators for what they are. Indeed, only for that fact, your request, King Lear, ends up being a ridiculous waste of time, more than probably.

[empathy]

This forum is what it is and remains to be.

The people who want to know, will know.

It is something I am beginning to understand now... Places like this can only exist for short bursts.

People will continue to flow through it like liquid. And you have to take it in stride. The focus should be on ground crew networking. If we don't get it together soon, this whole thing will have great and all... But it will not have achieved it's mission.

So start making friends and play nice! :)

[Carol]

This forum is unique. There were well over 2,000 members in just a couple of weeks. It's not going anywhere until the internet is shut down. Count on it. :thumb_yello:

[STARCHILD]

I really like the new-look Project Avalon.
And look very much forward to some really positive communication and exchanges with my fellow 'Ground Crew' members x
The new-look is very clear, precise and has a very 'welcoming' energy.
Go ground Crew!
I am really looking forward to the Miriam delicado interview!
In Grattitude,unity and an abundance of love,
I hope the sun is shining on you all where ever you may be x
Starchild x

[elias]

This is OK, everybody can start a new thread ...
I see no problem.

[mikey]

I really like the new-look Project Avalon.
And look very much forward to some really positive communication and exchanges with my fellow 'Ground Crew' members x
The new-look is very clear, precise and has a very 'welcoming' energy.
Go ground Crew!
In Grattitude,unity and an abundance of love,
I hope the sun is shining on you all where ever you may be x
Starchild x

I agree...good work Bill, Kerry and the mods....:thumb_yello:

Somewhat off topic...do the mods go around chanting 'we are the mods, we are the mods, we are we are we are the mods'...like in Quadrophenia?! :winksmiley02: I welcome replies....

peace and love

bananaman

[arcora]

No offense intended.

But why would I want to be in a 'ground crew' community where I was told what I could and couldn't discuss by 'elite' members of said community?

Isn't this the same thing we're fighting now?

If this forum is to be about building communities and survival - there are better forums on the net with some experienced folk who know exactly how to do such things.

If it is to help people understand what is happening, what is coming, what is changing and how best to deal with it (including an option for some to join a community) then it needs to have freely flowing thoughts, ideas and opinions.

[lohiaaditya]

Its great that people want to be innovative and keep unnecessary threads out of the way and I appreciate their thought. But I just feel that it getting way too controlled. I like the intentions but sometimes like government intervention in markets, the interventions don't really lead to the desired outcome.

That was my two cents.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I would imagine that this would get rid of a lot of the time wasters that seem to flock to forums like this. kinda like moths to a light bulb.

Just some of my thoughts, you got any negative vibes, keep them to yourself people.


Why should we? What gives you or anyone the right to stop somebody else saying how they feel.....?

Negative emotions are part of being human. Asking people to deny & not post them is asking them to deny a part of what makes them human.

Time wasters?. You simply cannot generalise like that . Just becuase someone may disagree with something, it does not mean they are a time waster. Lets make a deal, when you stop generlising, I will stop "time wasting".

I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND about creating a radiant zone but not at the cost of my opinion, (whatever it may be) and free speech.

Yes, this has been a rocky start, but lest not make hasty decisions that we may regret later.

For the record I think Bill & Kerry & the Mods have done a great job with a difficult situation but I think maybe Its very close to crossing the line of free speech.

Love & light to all. :)

[Gifts]

I had only just got to register and do one post, when suddenly it all disappeared. I don't know what it originally was or what its meant to be now - i just know what i felt when i found this forum.

I joined because i wanted to talk to someone that i felt very drawn too - very big surprise to have it all disappear.

I dont want to live in a world where elite say what is or what is not and some of the posts i have read imply that that is how this forum is -----

do i belong here now - do i share knowledge that i have or do i quietly just leave

lol time will tell :)

[Sanat]

Yea, I must say I agree with King Lear. The pruning etc. has not made it any better. It has only made people confused and sad that so many good threads suddenly are gone. Coming back here now feels like coming back to your house after a serious Swat team shakedown... With so many members it will be very hard to keep a pruning policy like this. We should find some other solution to this... There are a lot of creative people here...Let see what we can come up with!

For example: Put all threads that ARE in fact "off-topic" into the off-topic section. This would clean up the other topics if done properly and also leave room for discussion of anything. Perhaps also merge threads together like the 14 october threads. Make em all into one big thread. I see that many good threads on 14 october seems to have disappeared. This is not good as many people are naturally wondering about this and want to discuss it (no matter if you "believe in it" or not)...

[2infinityandbeyond]

That was not my intent, and yes I was abrupt! All I was saying is that people are starting to make threads that have NOTHING to do with the intent behind Project Avalon.


The intent here should be for the greater good of everyone.

The forum was doing a fantastic job before, and i assure you that much more people want it back the way it was then want to keep it as it is now.

I for one think this forum has completely lost its spirit and its connection with the people.

Project camelot was serving an excelent purpose, so why do we need this forum to serve the same purpose? Its just distancing the public when it should be bringing us together. And it most definitly was bringing us together before these changes.


Please bring it back to its original state, it was doing a fantastic job of serving a purpose which may not have been the original intent but had turned out to be very constructive and extremely valuable.

There are much better ways of moderating this forum. By keeping the energy high and making sure everyone has a mutual respect for one another is enough to keep it going in the right direction.

Peace and best wishes

[edit] - Its really not what i want to do, but i will leave this forum if it is left as it is now. This is not to show any disrespect to Bill, Kerry and the moderation team but i feel that it has lost the purpose that i it was so importantly serving well.

Your friend, infinity.

[2infinityandbeyond]

Since ive joined here i have directed seven people to this forum.

5 of those people are no longer interested in it, whilst my sister said that she finds it to confusing and 'segragated' now.

This is just an example of what will happen on a bigger scale.

[Mark]

Where have all the ufo's gone? That's part of everything thinking forwardly. Feel censored...but we don't own the site...

[T.C]

I believe the decisions made to focus this web site as it was originally intended is appropriate. I understand that many people would like to post 'related' information however if the intent of "Project Avalon" is to be brought to fruition we need to FOCUS. And focusing means specificity, i.e concentrating on the most relevant information to maximize the likelihood of meeting the goals of Project Avalon.

If people like to discuss paranormal/conspiracy issues there are plenty of other websites that will cater for them, e.g http://www.godlikeproductions.com or http://www.abovetopsecret.com/ (Mr. Lear may not agree :roftl:) to name a few.

Thanks Bill and Kerry for providing the Project Avalon forum. Many of us really appreciate your efforts!

:)

[TranceAm]

:mfr_omg: Changes :mfr_omg:

One of the hardest 'things' to get used to.
And when you finally do, 'things' change again.

Go with the flow people.... Stream upwards we have already been.

I missed my choice for the poll.. "I don't care", so I didn't vote.
The thread I was in communicating with someone, I ended by private message.


Changes -> Turning In -> http://www.osho.com/magazine/tarot/TarotCardNew.cfm?All=Yes&Nr=52
http://www.osho.com/magazine/tarot/picCards/zen052TurningIn.jpg

[RSF]

PA threads look lean in that there's much less jumble, I like that. Though I regret any actions on threads I frequented, I realize something needed to be done. Perhap's in time some of those threads may be permitted to reopen.
RSF :)

[Mark]

Ok, how do I put this.

The site is owned so that gives the owners the power to put on site what they want, yes? But that also deletes the reason for this site, doesn't it?

I've not come across any hassle here, just love, ideas and some every good ones also. This site is to show different ideas for our future whatever that maybe, so doesn't that make everyones point of view valid?

Billy and Kerry interview a lot of poeple that have worked with ET's and the like, but for some reason I can't find that section anymore - my be my poor computer skills, I don't know. But aren't the influence of ET's all part of our future?

The 14-10-2008 might well all be rubbish, but it is something for us to believe in as something that might happen and, well, basically make this site redundent, yes?

I want the orginal site back bacause it was more open and full of more ideas for our futures - the purpose of the site. Having it changed like it as been is really just like 'mass media' cencoring that they show and really, sorry to say it, is no different to them, if we can only say a few things and not everything we feel about future and the way we want it to go.

I love what Bill and Kerry have brought us, but feel that this site has been slimmed down more because they are understaffed or other reasons I know nothing about. Just my feelings.

All ideas are valid - the power of thought and from something small - maybe a silly idea - greatness can come.

[Mark]

RSf - have we got time though?

[Connecting with Sauce]

I personally would like it as it was. With a the UFO and the off topic back.

The high percentage of UFO discussions on camelot means this is an important topic. Those that are not interested can not enter that section…

Off topic is essential also I feel. Also it allows any topic which is not on track for the section to be moved to here with an polite explanation of why by the moderators.

A polite nudge for anyone with being too negative was also happening within the threads by the other posters.

I personally would like one forum to look at rather than multiple ones and also felt cut off for the period it was down.

I don't feel heavy handed modding or 'topics to be discussed elsewhere' is the correct route for the forum as it should be 100% openess for the good and light.

For me Spirituality and Finances section were my most viewed sections as without me being 'open' and 'stable' how can I help others...

my 2c or 2p worth...

[Chinderland]

Where are all the threads under John Lear part of Camelot forum?? I thought they are at least available as read-only?

I was reading one thread that has 12 pages, but only managed to reach page 10 when the maintanence began.

Now there is only one "Welcome" thread in the John Lear forum. Wish the threads would come back. There was lots of fantastic information from John Lear himself ...

[Jenny]

In my opinion calling for quantity is NOT bringing more quality.

With Mercury retrograde it is good and wise to backtrack and reconsider descisions and actions.Review information and thoughtprocessing.

The forum and the mods are doing that and so should we all.

It will strengthen the abilities we all need to transistion the shift that is currently manifesting itself towards a Radiant Zone.

Be well,
Zjen

[Tuza]

I don't know how you are all going to get along out in the wilds of nowhere, pitching in and doing stuff if you cannot even agree what form this forum takes. Your not doing anything yet, but logging in, gettin free help, exchanging valid and important information and because a change was made there is an uproar. You should be glad we have got it al all and there are people who are volunteering to assist. Picky.

[Kate]

quote

- Its really not what i want to do, but i will leave this forum if it is left as it is now. This is not to show any disrespect to Bill, Kerry and the moderation team but i feel that it has lost the purpose that i it was so importantly serving well. QUOTE



2Infinityandbeyond...re above statement....I am sorry you feel like this. I hope you will give the site a chance to 'settle down' again and reconsider leaving. From what I have seen of your posts you have contributed alot of good stuff... It seems a shame. :tears:

However, it is your right to state your feelings and act accordingly....
#
I am sure you must be aware that the decision to change format was VERY HARD, AND NOT TAKEN LIGHTLY!! Of course, it was anticipated that a percentage of members would have their feathers 'ruffled' and some objection would take place ( and some would leave) ...However, as a follower of Camelot, you will know that both Bill and Kerry are people of highest integrity, and they would NOT make this decision if there wasnt urgent need to.

I do hope that people on the forum will be able to move forward, onwards and upwards with collectively helping and supporting each other through what appears to be imminent MAJOR changes about to happen globally...

Regardless of our differences, we NEED each other....
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL...

whatever you decide, I wish you all the best :thumb_yello:

peace n light
kate

[Myplanet2]

The Poll is premature. The forum changes are still being worked on.

How about giving them a chance to get things settled down and on the course they originally envisioned for the place, and then decide whether you're happy with it or not.

I for one am happy with the chosen direction, and am anticipating things settling into a more focused, purposeful, and less fearful/more action oriented reality.

[Stephen]

I do not always agree with King Lear but, I do in this case....

EDIT: Did I mention that I do NOT always Agree with King Lear? hehe! :smoke:

[stefaan]

The Poll is premature. The forum changes are still being worked on.

How about giving them a chance to get things settled down and on the course they originally envisioned for the place, and then decide whether you're happy with it or not.

I for one am happy with the chosen direction, and am anticipating things settling into a more focused, purposeful, and less fearful/more action oriented reality.

Right on the nail.
Some people are so fast to jump to conclusion, not giving things any chance at all.
Threads or gone, post or gone, the Camelot is closed... well yes.
But haven't you heard it by now?
They are looking for a better way of organising things.
Nothing is final yet.
What is gone, will come back, just maybe in other places.
Camelot will be opened again.
Don't worry, be happy.

[Racsouran]

I still think that with the censorship requesting for high quality threads and responses to be posted has killed completely the initial forum this initiative brought, at least to me, in the beggining.

Now, i feel fear on expressing my opinion. There is something terribly wrong in this asking for only positive things instead of ALL things. We are consciously suppressing ourselves, and a huge part of reality that should be taking into account.

Supposedly surrounded by people who talks about a love and light wich i barely feel and see here, something stills tells me it is something wrong in it. This is not a hopeful place any longer; it was when it was crazy and wild, like nature itself. Well, haha, that´s because i despise communities in the first place, and, also, because they seems to think the worst case scenario will happen. And that without any serious proof still, but only serious speculations, then we have to get used to be back to middle ages....

The tiranny being implemented here based on love and light is not any different than anyohter else implemented on whatever other feelings. This is scary, people who buy that scares the hell outta me. Because i have seen that kind of attitude before, in history, and was an awful sight.

Godlike productions then remains as the best forum i have found yet, only by it´s bizarre mix. OM and ats have nothing to do against.

[Mark]

You're right, Stefaan - I pray, but is there really time? I do hope so. If/When the events promised us on the 14-10-2008 transpire the site will have to change again, yes? It's a good thing though - we'll have little to gripe about and more to celebrate.

Racsouran, positve/nagative are very earth bond concepts - I know that's where most of us live on this site - but feel that we have to rise above postive and negative and just view thoughts as 'thoughts'...

[Racsouran]

Racsouran, positve/nagative are very earth bond concepts - I know that's where most of us live on this site - but feel that we have to rise above postive and negative and just view thoughts as 'thoughts'...


Thoughts are thoughts, what a new.. we can do that but things will still happening the same, that is what scares me.

Well, as an scared person, not by the probable truth, because i am well aware of every one exposed on the internet, but by the supposed truth bearers, maybe i gotta get out of here as soon as possible, lol.

[ghglenn]

I hope the changes help to get this forum back on track. Version 1.0 was a "fuster-cluck"... :mad3: Post responsibly.:original:

[Rocky_Shorz]

I urge you knights of Avalon,
bring back the Avalon Forum to its original state!

Before it was a market place of ideas, information and inspiring discussions and now it's like a ghost town.

Bring it back to the original state!

Well, isn't the reason we are here at Avalon is to prepare for changes?

as for the comment of the "Rocky" start...

it's more like a comet, that has exploded with energy.

Let the mods get things organized and I'm sure it will open up again for all of us to comment on the threads we need...

and hey, nothing is stopping any of us from copying a thread and starting in an area for discussion...:thumb_yello:

[Mark]

We are all enteral light - there is nothing in this dimension to be scared of - nothing in any dimension - that includes mother-in-laws.

Listening to Kerry and the Green interview going on about planet X - hope the UFO stuff is coming back

[Richard T]

When you are a guest in a house that is not yours, you don't move their furniture around to suit your tastes.

A forum is the same thing.

It is the forum creators' prerogative to do as they see fit in accord to their objectives.

Would you go to a friend's house and say:
If you don't organize your furniture to my taste I won't be coming back?

People give a lot of advice.

But advice is only valuable when:
1- Tt is asked for
2- It really is made for the benefit of the recipient.

But people see things from their perspective and their advice is generally geared toward their own experience, therefore pretty useless to the one at which the advice is given.

We want to change the world to fit our personal views so that we may not have to change.
Changing others for one's own sake is a subtle game of influence, and influence is under the law of domination.

So, imagine what this means for communication. Everybody pulling the cover to his corner. No surprise if the cover tears at one point.

People don't really want to change. They want the world around them to adjust to their condition. And he who has the most clout prevails. And that has to change, but it can only change if individuals change.

So, if I come here and am gracefully allowed in, I must have enough respect to accept the rules of the rulers of the house.

[kayak]

Personally, Starchild, you may enjoy the color emphasis of your text.

I, for one reader of this forum, find it excessive.

As Gilbert and Sullivan commented in "The Gondoliers":
"If everybody is somebody, then nobody is anybody."

Suggestion: Use emphasis sparsely, to retain its value when truly necessary.

I am Kayak--I edit for a living.

[Circlewerk]

I agree with Richard T.
And it helps to simply not MIND what happens.
I'm grateful to be here, and practice consideration for those who provide it.

Circles,
CW

[historycircus]

Ladies and Gentlemen of Avalon,

There are several threads now that express dissatisfaction over the changes, but I just don't understand. We are still expressing and exchanging ideas here - heck, the only problem I had was the 24 hours it was down. It doesn't seem much different than before. The fact that there are multiple threads still running bemoaning the changes should say something. I don't really understand what is so terrible about the relaunch - am I missing something?

[Lotus]

I'm just very grateful Avalon is back. Here we are now. Let's keep it going with patience, respect and love.

[Angel of the Mists]

Hey folks.....
Seems like we're not to keen on change!! And yet we are just about to face probably the biggest and most serious changes any of us have experienced this life time. Lets reflect on our feelings about these changes on the project Avalon forum and look at how we can turn any 'negative' energy around these feelings, into something positive. It might help us to constructively prepare for what lies ahead as members of The Ground Crew.... :)

Angel of the Mists

[777 The Great Work]

I urge you knights of Avalon,
bring back the Avalon Forum to its original state!

Otherwise I fear, it will die.
After only 2 weeks.


Before it was a maket place of ideas, information and inspring discussions and now it's like a ghost town.

Many members already posted that they want to delete their account, leave the forum or don't post any new information anymore.


It's ridiculous that so many interesting and well visited threads are now closed - "read only"

Don't kill your own child Avalonists!!!
Bring it back to the original state!


The worst famine is comming and its a famine of spiritual food (Knowledge).

[Stephen]

Would you go to a friend's house and say:
If you don't organize your furniture to my taste I won't be coming back?

Actually, at my Best Friend's House...then YES!
When there is need.
I just had surgery and they did move furniture around when I asked.
I had the need in order to sit comfortablely...
My Best Friend allows me access to his fridge, computer, TV, etc.
That is what Best Friends are for.
We give to one another...WITHOUT keeping Score!

[doodah]

Where are all the threads under John Lear part of Camelot forum?? I thought they are at least available as read-only?

I was reading one thread that has 12 pages, but only managed to reach page 10 when the maintanence began.

Now there is only one "Welcome" thread in the John Lear forum. Wish the threads would come back. There was lots of fantastic information from John Lear himself ...

Bill has said that some threads seem to be lost for the moment. They are trying to get them back.

You can still pretty much post whatever you want to here, under General Discussion, just as before. What people can't do now is attack the Witnesses. Witnesses will still consider questions through PM. All that is lost is people like Henry Deacon, who is in ill health, having to deal with a free for all. He's here to help, but he was attacked constantly. I agree that there is no reason he should have to put up with that. Perhaps some thinking about what "free expression" is should happen. We ARE trying to be somewhat respectful of each other, aren't we?

[doodah]

I urge you knights of Avalon,
bring back the Avalon Forum to its original state!

Otherwise I fear, it will die.
After only 2 weeks.


Before it was a maket place of ideas, information and inspring discussions and now it's like a ghost town.

Many members already posted that they want to delete their account, leave the forum or don't post any new information anymore.


It's ridiculous that so many interesting and well visited threads are now closed - "read only"

Don't kill your own child Avalonists!!!
Bring it back to the original state!

King Lear, show us your real face.

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

actually hadnt noticed that much change since i only use this site for ground crew survival purposes.. ill get more spiritual when i find a spot to be in and have at least some sort of plan.. i want to learn TM and othere stuff. thast can wait till were move furhter ahead with the more pressing issue of continuing to draw breath:) having food to consume, fresh water to drink blah blah blaqh

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

by the way upsetting people like henry deacon is totally criminal and egotistical.. not your fault americans i know its the ultra toxic water and aspartame ect thast makes you riled up and argumentative... (only kidding ) come pon people lets get to the job at hand. having descent humans surivve what comes next not just people from underground bases.

[Heretic]

I’ll be honest and blunt and pardon me if I seem negative, I mean this in the best regards and point no fingers at anyone.

I was disappointed in how Avalon took off. All I saw was the same old posts found on just about every conspiracy forum across the net, even in the same format. I looked like 1500 people who used to live on ATS changed addresses to Avalon and proceeded to treat Avalon like it was theirs. Massive posting too numerous to keep up with, most of it regurgitated rhetoric of the samo samo found everywhere else, and served with a side helping of moral competition, and belittlement, while calling it debate.

FINALLY we got witnesses to come aboard yet these guys were assaulted by doubt and near ridicule. I saw a lot of skeptics come here and started all kinds of disrespectful crap that painted this new creation the same color as ATS where the most of the respect is owned by those who know how to be the biggest ******* while JUST skirting under the rules like some demented sport.

If I wanted a place to define myself in the eyes of voyeuristic pixelated people I could have gone no farther than all the other places on the net that all look the same, talking about the same news bytes, pointing out all the same articles everyone has probably already read because we too troll the news daily without needing people rushing to be the first to post just about any conspiracy related news. Glory related mental masturbation IMHO. This place was supposed to be different, yet I feel that there was a rush of folks who wanted to make a cookie cutter site just like the Jones’s rife with the same discord found just about everywhere else.

Not all came here for the reasons it was created, many saw it as a new virtual battleground where the grass is greener, unconquered and the people although positive, are ripe to those who are like literary predators seeking to spread their dissent against the potentiality of this site and its purpose for the sake of "debate". What do we need to debate anyway, are we not all here because essentially we all already agree on the nature of things?

I am happy for the change. We already have TONS of places to go and read up on this stuff and debate it with anonymous people, half of whom we despise because they are not on the same page as we are, and laugh at what we consider sacred. I did not want this to be a place of heated debate where there are winners and losers because the internet is FULL of these places, why one more?

I am happy for the changes, it is why I came here in the fist place….in fact I am ecstatic. I'm sorry for the rant, I rarely do it, but I felt this needed to be said. Maybe I am just in a sour mood.

My two cents.

[Chris Parson]

i'm unhappy about my barbara marciniak thread being deleted from the spirituality forum.

it definitely affects my general attitude about this forum.

edit: found it in the books forum

[gazbom]

i'm unhappy about my barbara marciniak thread being deleted from the spirituality forum.

it definitely affects my general attitude about this forum.
Why don't you just re-post it?
Anyway, it was a little strange and alien yesterday, (scuse the pun) but it's regaining it's edge again, it's almost back to normal!

[linkes]

OMG all these threats

Project Camelot is a new forum and like anything new it will have teething issues it takes time, especially when there is so much information bombarding a system.

I suppose they don’t want to loose it and want some kind of order, but if you are threatening to leave because you cant post what you want then you are here for the wrong reasons.

Yes the new way is not working but why then make threats just say it’s not working.

I am on a spiritual site called lightworkers.org and Adeon has managed to organise everything so no information is lost maybe they should have a chat with him and see what he says and what principals he used.

[Chris Parson]

Why don't you just re-post it?
Anyway, it was a little strange and alien yesterday, (scuse the pun) but it's regaining it's edge again, it's almost back to normal!

i imagine if a harmless thread like that was deleted then they don't want it here. makes no sense to me.

[ChooseYourLifeNow]

I think we should be able to say whatever we feel we need to. Yes, we need to create a radiant zone.....but when the SHTF we are going to be encountering people who will threaten that constantly. Our radiance comes from the acceptance of everything and everyone.

If we can't maintain that in forum threads, that we can choose to read or not, then how we going to handle it with a crowd of people looking for guidance. We must use this forum as practice for the times ahead.

Negativity is so rampant that we need to be able to handle it, not censor it.

Love you All,

CYLNow

[Bigfatfurrytexan]

i don't know Henry Deacon. He seems to be a bit "out there" for my tastes. It isn't what he says, it is how he says it (i can't listen to it).

But i do agree that this site has been infiltrated. Badly. Shame. I thought i might like it here.

[Connecting with Sauce]

Shame I have to scoll down through the notice EVER single click on this site! I've noww read it. Please can we at least get that removed before my RSI comes back :)