Nordics [Archive] - Old Project Avalon Forum (ARCHIVE)

clarkkent

10-01-2008, 05:57 AM

Chris Parson

10-01-2008, 08:16 AM

don't never stop, kyle!

Steve_G

10-01-2008, 11:13 AM

Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside to know that these guys are "looking after" us so well.

Something that stirred a question with me was the whole "kids in the house with matches" deal. I know she was referring to the 3rd world, but by the sounds of it the 4th is the same.

If we left children in the house with matches, and the house burned down, who would we hold responsible? The children, or the adults who left them there?

It leads me to a wider point. I'm all for personal responsibility- I think it's the starting point of true growth. But all these benevolent races who practice the universal law of non-intervention have stood by and watched as the masters and creators of the Illuminati have systematically enslaved, butchered, mind controlled and physically screwed up our entire species. Then they have the nerve to tell us it's all our fault!?

Sounds like yet another version of original sin bu*****t to me.

If we had arrived at our current position on our own, without outside intervention, then fair enough. If we had polluted the world, sterilized the oceans, burned down the rain forests, messed up the atmosphere with chemtrials, suppressed clean and free energy technology, profited from deliberately supressing cures and selling treatments, created weapons that can wipe out millions etc on our own then fair enough. But we didn't did we? We've been directed for thousands of years, lied to and decieved and coerced and threatened by The Gods that arrived way back in history.

We're told that it's man's evil nature that has led us here. We're told that we don't live in equilibrium with our environment, that we're like a virus. We're told that our disregard for the planet is natural and inherent.

If that was the case, then why is it when the Illuminati expanded outwards into North and South America, Africa etc they found the people there doing exactly the opposite? They were living in harmony with their environment. They had a deep respect for and understanding of nature. They knew they were part of it and not "superior" to it.

As a result they were conquered by superior technology, every effort was made to eradicate the knowledge of who and what we are. Entire cultures were decimated by various methods, all of Illuminati origin. The knowledge of who and what we are was surpressed and replaced with the doctrine that we are worthless, that we are sinners, that God will burn us for eternity if we don't do what we are told. Or that we are a cosmic accident, a random product of mechanistic scientific laws, a one-in-a-billion anomoly in an empty, uncaring universe.

This ISN'T man's nature, it's a belief that's been programmed into us.

These supposedly spiritually advanced races have stood by and done nothing while all this has happened. These races who often say that they are our guardians, our parents who helped create us through genetic manipulation, have the nerve to tell us that everything is our fault?

I'm sorry, but to me that's just another form of mental and spiritual abuse. It's like Mummy standing by and watching while Daddy, having spent years programming the child to trash the house, beats the crap out of the kid for doing so. Then Mummy tells the kid that it's all his own fault! :jawdrop:

Am I alone in thinking that this is seriously messed up?

We have never had a level playing field. Not even close. The mess we find ourselves in now is NOT of our own making. If we had been left alone and reached this place then we could have no defence against these charges. But the truth about who and what we are has been hidden from us by outside forces, adults who have mercilessly abused and expoited our child race.

Am I missing anything? This is a serious question, a genuine appeal. Can someone please explain to me how our situation is our fault? Because I just can't get my head around it.

These benevolent races have done NOTHING to help us in the last few millennia- why are some of us expecting them to help now? They haven't taken any of the responsibility for the situation. If non-intervention is universal law then why hasn't some kind of corrective action been taken? Even in our society if someone breaks the law there are agencies set up to stop them doing it again. These races who claim to be benevolent have had thousands of years to do something about it, but they have done nothing. Why?

Yes, those of us who now know the truth about who and what we are have a personal responsibility to do something about it if we possibly can. The knowledge that the Illuminati has tried so hard to destroy is out in the world again, available for those who look for it, but most of the population is so trapped in the daily battle to survive that they don't have the energy to look. We are massively outnumbered, but we can still win.

What we do about it is down to us. I accept that totally. But I will NOT take responsibility or shoulder guilt for us being in this situation because it is NOT of our making.

Back to the matches analogy- who's more responsible? The kids with the matches, the adults who gave them the matches AND WERE HIDING IN THE HOUSE WEARING FIREPROOF CLOTHES or the adults who stood by and watched the kids set fire to things WHO HAD THE ABILITY TO INTERVENE and did nothing about it?

Sorry for the long post.

Blessings

Edit- Don't fear whatever's coming because it's just an experience in your eternal journey. But don't accept responsibility that isn't yours either.

clarkkent

10-01-2008, 12:23 PM

i DO believe we are responsible from a species point of view, individually no we are not but we've been born into a destructive race on the planet.

we've been manipulated for a long time but heres the thing, WE from a species stand point will survive no one is debating this, whats debatable is if 95% of us get wiped out and our "salvation" lies in heading for the hills.

personally even if the hopi and maya think catastrophic earth changes will wipe us out im not going to take it as fact, lets remember that the hopi had dealings with "reptilian" entities they were afraid to even make idols of and that the maya despite being advanced would sacrifice women,babies etc to affect energy etc. not to metion theyre waiting for a winged serpent to return (draconians if you believe alex collier) tibetan monks and the dalai lama have some strange connections to fascism and nazi's (leo zagami even said the were a version of the illuminati) im just saying always look into the sources.

all you can do is be personally responsible for yourself, and if these "nordics" are real and not a government psy op, then you have to be aware of manipulation...anyone or thing that "tells" what to do (especially if they use mind control and surgery) you should beware and wonder if they have an agenda

again my theory is that by getting all these people to write their books theyre putting it into everyones consciousness that were doomed to earth changes, if we co create reality and there ARE MANY timelines then perhaps they are trying to cement us down one path by wrapping this "message of love and light" in fear of "end times"

imagine many many many advanced races watching us in our atmosphere, all abiding by the non interference law BUT if its US (nordics and greys either form the future or the gov) then they are ALLOWED to interfere because they LIVE here, the same with negative entities from other dimensions if they LIVE here but in a dimension we cant see then they can interfere with us, but i HIGHLY doubt a TRULY extraterrestial race would be allowed to manipulate us with so many "good guys" watching.

with that in mind ill always beware "prophecies" and "message aliens"
because NOTHING is set in stone.

regarding being manipulated throughout history, yes we have, but yes personal responsibility is all you can do (you cant be responsible for the actions of your species, but collectively we ARE responsibe) thats why i say these messages are just another form of manipulation and your responsible for your own discernment.

ill say again, jim jones and his followers moved to south america in fear of society and "the end" and we all know they caused their own ends by being manipulated.

Steve_G

10-01-2008, 01:45 PM

Thank you Kyle, I knew I was missing something. The whole being-from-here-too part had eluded me. I guess that's what they call a loophole in legal circles. It also clarifies the responsibility issue regarding the nordics and the lizards, assuming they do exist and are from here in whatever form. Gives a whole new dimension to the term "Big Brother."

I also find it interesting that Miriam left out the part about being controlled and the surgery aspects in the interview. Sounds like a huge violation of free will to me. Decisions to leave out key information like that also tend to suggest an intention to portray her experiences in a specific way. It certainly detracts from her credibility, which IMO wasn't all that high in the first place.

Thanks again dude.

Blessings

371

10-01-2008, 02:31 PM

Ever notice that human-type ETs are almost always 'Nordic" or Asian-looking...

Why no black ETs?

Just a thought.

Richard T

10-01-2008, 02:36 PM

Would they not conform to expectations in the forms they use?

I would take virgin Mary apparitions as an example.

goody8504

10-01-2008, 05:27 PM

i also find it interesting that these nordic ETs have been contacting people who initially had no interest in the ET subject. it seems to me that if they really wanted to give their messages to certain people, they would give it to those who are actively searching for the information and are prepared for contact rather than shasing down somebody driving down the road and saying 'this is the truth. you must write a book and share this information with the world.' wouldn't telling the person they must write a book violate the freewill of the contactee?

secondly, it's my impression that truly benevolent ETs would never contact anybody who is not ready for contact. in fact, steven greer stated that one particular person who was expecting to make contact with greer's group did not have the same intentions as the rest of the group. as a result, everytime this person was present, no ETs would show. when that person failed to show up, contact was made. the reason i point this out is because didn't mariam say in her interview that she was asking during her first contact 'why can't you just leave me alone?' or something to that effect. if mariam was not ready for contact, why would benevolent beings force themselves into her life?

goody8504

10-01-2008, 05:28 PM

Ever notice that human-type ETs are almost always 'Nordic" or Asian-looking...

Why no black ETs?

Just a thought.

according to david wilcock, clifford stone revealed to him and other reporters that among the 57 different ETs that had been catalogued in 1989, all earth races were represented besides black people. in other words, no black ETs had been found by the US military. so, either 1) black people are indiginous to earth or 2) black ETs had sucessfully eluded our military at that point and do not choose to made contact...at least nowhere near as often as the nordics

Jonah

10-01-2008, 05:33 PM

Perhaps it is there intention to create the kind of vibrations that one experiences when contemplating these lines of thought. Again they plant seeds of doubt to bring about the desired goal of trusting only yourself. Then when the wave comes it will hit like a wall for those that realize they walked the path they were supposed to.

dragonfly

10-01-2008, 05:35 PM

1) black people are indiginous to earth

Anyone read "Eating For Your Bloodtype"?
That is what it says.

Steve_G

10-01-2008, 06:25 PM

2) black ETs had sucessfully eluded our military at that point and do not choose to made contact...at least nowhere near as often as the nordics

We should all be so lucky. Anyone for a depleted uranium cocktail?

It's a valid point though. I read somewhere that black people were the earth's only indiginous population, though I don't remember exactly where. Could be why Africa has been so stomped on by TPTB. May also chalk up another point for the Nordic Illuminazi theory.

Having said that the multiverse is a big place. If only 57 races had been categorized by the military when Clifford Stone was there it doesn't mean there aren't another 200 million still to say hello. It does seem odd though.

371

10-01-2008, 08:36 PM

either 1) black people are indiginous to earth or 2) black ETs had sucessfully eluded our military at that point and do not choose to made contact...at least nowhere near as often as the nordics

You bring up some good suggestions, but I think:

1. Seems unlikely if the human race originally came from elsewhere, then where did black people come from? They naturally evolved on Earth exactly as the other races that came to live here eventually? I think not.

2. If they should be that fortunate to sucessfully elude our military I don't think they would wait around while their people get crapped on by the white man for hundreds of years.

Personally I think Richard T is on to something when he suggests that the ETs are just presenting themselves in a form that we would readily expect.

goody8504

10-01-2008, 09:50 PM

You bring up some good suggestions, but I think:

1. Seems unlikely if the human race originally came from elsewhere, then where did black people come from? They naturally evolved on Earth exactly as the other races that came to live here eventually? I think not.

2. If they should be that fortunate to sucessfully elude our military I don't think they would wait around while their people get crapped on by the white man for hundreds of years.

in regards to your first comment, life has to evolve somewhere. you think life couldn't possibly evolve into human form here on earth? on the contrary, i find it harder to believe life didn't evolve to human form here when you're dealing with an intelligent life force that's guiding life as is evolves. we know this is what's going on with evolution. it's not just random mutations and natural selection like many people believe

also, if black ETs do exist and have simply eluded our military forces, or had at least done so up until 1989, that doesn't automatically suggest we are their descendants

371

10-01-2008, 10:14 PM

BPhill

10-01-2008, 10:19 PM

Ever notice that human-type ETs are almost always 'Nordic" or Asian-looking...

Why no black ETs?

Just a thought.

Very hairy topic this one eh?

I'll continue to observe this thread until I have something concrete to say...which maybe I should have thought of before posting this but even I who's spent nearly my whole adult life trying to address this question have come nowhere near an answer. (Which in no way makes me an authority on the subject...I'm just saying....)

BPhill

10-01-2008, 10:25 PM

The point is: maybe that's why so many contactees reports are either Grey or Nordic- because that's what we EXPECT, and therefore that's the form the ETs take.

Expectations are subject to cultural and localized contexts......

Martian Tigress

10-01-2008, 10:44 PM

Personally, I think the whole 'blacks are indigenous to Earth' stuff is more nazi-nordic-race-crapola, just dished up in a new, improved 'ET Theory' flavor.

The facts are that a black person and a white person can marry and produce children that are themselves sexually fertile. This means that we are all the same species, period. Lions mated to tigers and donkeys mated to horses produce live offspring (ligers and mules) that are themselves not capable of reproducing. This means they are of different species (though they are somewhat genetically related), period.

When I look at the whole ET-info issue, I see a strong thread of 'blond-human = good, black/gray/reptile/odd-looking = bad' in it, which to my mind, can only have one source-- terrestrial nazi super-race propaganda.

I work as a volunteer for the Disclosure Project, so I have had the good fortune to hear some of the witnesses' stories in person. Interestingly, they pretty much all say the same thing: scary, controlling abductions are secret-government/military operations to insure that contactees stay terrorized and that non-contactees shy away from the whole contact issue.

They also say that while individual groups of Skypeople hold differing views on things, they are all peaceful, and interact peacefully with one another.

Simply put, ET 'info-tags' like preoccupation with bloodlines, physical types, and 'good vs. bad' stellar warfare are nazi, Terran-origin 'call-signs'.

Peace,

Martian Tigress

371

10-01-2008, 10:48 PM

^ Word :thumb_yello:

clarkkent

10-01-2008, 10:54 PM

fully agree m tigress

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3eb0y_the-nazi-search-for-atlantis_shortfilms

Encyclopedia > Nordic race
Nordic theory (or Nordicism) was a theory of race prevalent in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. It drew on the dominant anthropological model of the day which divided European peoples into three sub-categories of the Caucasian race: the Nordic, Alpine and Mediterranean races. The Nordic race was thought to be prevelant in northern Europe and Scandanavia, especially among speakers of the Germanic languages, and was characterised by tall bodies, long skulls, blond hair and blue eyes. The Alpine race was thought to predominate in central Europe, and was characterised by tallish bodies and comparatively round skulls. The Mediterranean race was thought to be prevelant in southern Europe and, sometimes, parts of North Africa, and was characterised by dark hair and swarthy complexion (according to some theorists of this period this was due to racial mixing with African peoples).

Among many white supremacists in Europe and the USA, the Nordic race came to be thought of as the most advanced of human population groups, hence its equation in Nazi ideology with the so-called Aryan master race. In the USA, the primary spokesman for "Nordicism" was the eugenicist Madison Grant, who used it as a justification for anti-immigration policies of the 1920s, arguing that the immigrants from Southern and Eastern European represented an "inferior" type of of European and should hence be restricted. His 1916 book, The Passing of the Great Race, or a Racial Basis of European History about Nordicism was highly influential among racial thinking, government policymaking, and even on popular culture ( F. Scott Fitzgerald invokes Grant's ideas through a character in part of The Great Gatsby). Grant argued that the Nordic race had been responsible for most of humanity's great achievements, that "admixture" was "race suicide", and that unless various eugenic policies were enacted, the Nordic race would be supplanted by the "inferior" races. Nordicism was a particular type of white supremacism, one which did not recognize all degrees of "white" as being equal. Italians, Slavs, the Irish, and Jews were among those considered significantly inferior to the Nordics.

The fact that Mediterranean peoples were responsible for the most important of ancient civilisations was a problem for those who promoted the merits of the Nordic race. Giuseppè Sergi's influential book The Mediterranean Race (1901) argued that this race's mixed character gave it its creative edge. Grant's speculative approach to this problem was to claim that many of the achievements of Mediterranean culture were really the result of Nordic genes which had entered into the Mediterranean gene pool after ancient invasions by northern peoples.

In the USA, though, this concept of "race" lost favor in the polarizing political climate after the first World War, including the Great Migration and the Depression. The influx of African-Americans into the Northern states in this time resulted in a "flattening" of racial categories into what racial theorist and eugenicist Lothrop Stoddard named as "bi-racialism"—the hard black/white distinction which abandoned Grant's gradations of "white"—which was embraced both by white supremacists and black nationalists alike. Among the latter were Marcus Garvey, and, in part, W.E.B. Du Bois, at least in his later thought.

But at the same time as the theory was losing favor the USA, it was vastly influential in Germany, with the ascent of Adolf Hitler, who sometimes tended to merge the terms "Nordic" and " Aryan". Grant's book was the first non-German book to be translated and published by the Nazi Reich press, and Grant proudly displayed to his friends a letter from Hitler claiming that the book was "his Bible." The Nazi state used such ideas about the differences between European races as part of their program of Racial Hygiene and various discriminatory and coercive policies which culminated in the Holocaust. Ironically, in Grant's first edition of his popular book, he classified the Germans as being primarily Nordic, but in his second edition, published after the USA had entered WWI, he had re-classified the now enemy power as being dominated by "inferior" Alpines. Hitler himself was later to downplay the importance of Nordicism for this very reason. The standard tripartite model placed most of the population of Hitler's Germany in the Alpine category, especially after the Anschluss. By 1939 Hitler abandoned Nordicist rhetoric in favour of the idea that the German people as a whole were united by distinct 'spiritual' qualities.

After the second World War, the categorization of peoples into "superior" and "inferior" groups fell even further out of political and scientific favor. The tripartite subdivision of "Caucasians" into Nordic, Alpine and Mediterranean groups persisted into the 1960s, notably in Carleton Coon's book The Origins of Race (1962), but eventually became obsolete.

Steve_G

10-02-2008, 12:33 AM

Martian Tigress

10-02-2008, 04:39 AM

Everybody I have ever hooked up with via the Disclosure Project has said essentially this: Skypeople have different cultures and feel differently about certain things, but they all interact peacefully with one another. Carol Rosin (she whom Wernher Von Braun gave that famous 'M/I disinfo speech' to) has said that Von Braun told her that after the Russians were no longer a threat, that terrorists/'rogue nations', killer asteroids and 'evil ETs' would be pitched to the public as a false-flag, 'next enemy' in that order. As an old nazi, and a space program insider, I think Von Braun certainly knew what he was talking about.

I have also had the pleasure of corresponding personally with Lisette Larkins, who is a multiple-visit contactee of the Gray Skypeople. She paints a very different picture of them-- friendly, highly ethical, etc.-- even though her first contact experiences made her think she was literally going insane (she came from a very staid, hard science/reality-based family and mindset). Her story is very interesting because she came to realize that the 'fear-problem was because of her own mindset', and once she changed that and dealt with some ancillary personal issues, her contacts became a thing of great joy. She also states that there is 'no fighting or war out in space'.

My personal experience with Ms. Larkins is limited to my correspondence with her, but I see her as a very positive, truthful person who is very accepting of others' views. I wrote to her regarding a strange experience I had when I read her first book. In it, she detailed several conversations she had with the Skypeople, and some of the things that they said to her were word-for-word what I had been told in meditation by my own Spirit Guides several years before I had ever even heard of Lisette Larkins. When I wrote to her , I told her, 'I think we must be talking to some of the same beings, even though I have never been on an ET craft'. She wrote back to me, and we had an interesting brief correspondence about how what I had been getting dovetailed in all respects with what she was told by the Gray Skypeople face-to-face. While I know this will not convince some folks of anything much, it was certainly very powerful validation for me.

I am relating my own experiences with people that I have myself heard or spoken to face-to-face (and, yes, I have spoken with Carol Rosin), or whom I myself have directly corresponded with (Lisette Larkins). What I hear from these folks is congruent with my own personal experiences via my Spirit Guides, and so while I give what they say more weight, I can understand how others might be dismissive, not having had the same feedback I've had.

Just to clear the air about where I stand-- Billy Meier, Whitley Strieber and Alex Collier all make me uneasy, each for very different reasons. I am also not at all 'on board' with anything that smacks of repackaged racism, and a lot of the 'Nordic-Plejaran-Pleiadean' and 'evil reptilian, et.al.' stuff is so full of recycled racial purity and special bloodline/genetics ideas that it strikes me as having to be completely Terrestrial in origin.

Peace,

Martian Tigress

RSF

10-02-2008, 04:56 AM

Nordics are infiltraters. The ones at least the US NSA and Military are really afraid of. Rightfully so, I feel as they may well, by now, be having an influence on many things -- especially of the nuclear variety.
RSF

isotelesis

10-02-2008, 05:36 AM

Reptilians, Nordics, Greys, etc., all have certain vested interests on this planet, they are neither good nor bad. The question is, what is their local guiding telesis? Globally we are in parallel, however reflections of one another, therefore we are interconnected at some level. Some have ecological motivations, others have agricultural interests, ultimately I suspect we have been part of some type of genetic experiment which at this point must learn to become responsible and sustainable on its own in order to participate more fully in the creation of one destiny.

clarkkent

10-02-2008, 05:49 AM

ill also add that alex said the beings he was in contact with view us as "genetic royalty"

this should tip you off that you should use some common sense.

if a being is advanced and "enlightened" im 100% they wouldnt view ANYTHING as royalty. and the ideas of war in space dont make sense either, look at our stage of development with nukes and now scalar tech,drones,bio-weapons, etc---- dont you think beings thousands,millions,billions years ahead of us technologically would be able to obliterate an enemy or a world in the blink of an eye?

i think we are projecting our own limited scope of understanding and quantifying things in ways we can understand- just like when they said god was an old man with a white beard.

quantum physics points to multi-dimensional existence, my guess is that negative earthbound enitities can easily pose as UFO's or a projection of an "alien" in order to manipulate whatever their agenda is, and that is separate from extraterrestrials.

its all very complicated, especially when you factor in future human timetravelers in there as well, serving their own agenda.

id venture to say that there is a whole host of earthbound paranormal phenomena as well as gvernment manipulation confusing the whole subject of ACTUAL visitors from other planets and galaxies.

imagine many benevolent non interfering aliens watching and observing as the government, earthbound multidimensional beings, and future humans are ALL hijacking and infiltrating ufology and society at large to serve their own agendas, meanwhile TRUE contact is extreeeeemely rare.

the nordics just strike me as more manipulation with "end times" prophecies wrapped in feel good lightworker gibberish. my opinion is that any contactee speaking to aliens from a "galactic federation" or "council of light" with a bunch of recycled egyptian names, who's message is to write books that .001% of the population reads, and that who's sole content is that we are destructive and that we shouldnt be is being manipulated . i dont think miriam delicado is lying, i just think she's been masterfully used and its a shame because these are good people who take the positive message of balance and personal responsibility but still serve their manipulators agenda.
someone posted a good saying "the best lie is hidden between two truths"

its manipulation to turn ET's into a kind of messianic religion that teaches how to be in balance and not destroy the planet.

well guess what? we were doing that perfectly as homo sapiens for over 200,000 years living as tribes. civilization and the idea of classes and elite ruling powers / wars/famine /death /destruction all come with civilization.

we dont need aliens to tell us the obvious and science is coming closer to spirituality everyday with quantum mechanics and the idea of "oneness" and that everything is conscioussess and that we are all connected is something we are collectively starting to understand, and it wasnt because some aliens made some random people write books in the new age section at barnes and nobles.

believing that benevolent blue eyed beautiful nazi ET's that use mind control and erase your free will to serve them as well as use invasive surgery and have robo-grey slaves is up to you. if there evening news message of "head for the hills be afraid, be very afraid" or that our planet can only support 300 million people (straight from george greens pleiadians) and that depopulation HAS to happen, is up to you. my advice is to use serious discernment and not eat up every contactee/abductee that fits the prevailing paradigm.

personally i find it funny that all those messages and techniques fall in line with the illuminati's ideas (hiding from the catastrophy/mind control/fear to rule/de population/white master race)

if ALL that just seems like a wacky coincidence then your free to think that.

i know this isnt the thrust at avalon but i hope some contrary ideas wont upset the goal and mission statement. bill has stated that you can always go elsewhere, hopefully i wont have to. :biggrin2:

Sol Invictus

10-02-2008, 06:39 AM

'Buckle up dorothy, because Kansas is about to go bye bye'.

Nordics are not 'real'. They are not a specie of this gigaverse, nor are they a natural sentinent being in any gigaverse. They are biological machines for 'low vibratory field interaction'. They are the work horse of the shukra who need them to be able to 'interact' at our level.

The Shukra are the beings whom people call 'greys'. The 'Nordics are their tools, nothing more. Neither good or bad, they do their job with no deviation - AI controlled tightly by a system is all they are.

Vibrations. Ever wondered how a person being abducted can float through a wall or locked window? its all about raising or lowering vibrationary fields. The shukra cannot descend to our level so they need to lift us up. However, we got wise to this and started to object. So... they made machines to come give us a 'happy' message and hoping we 'go with them' then abduct and experiment on those poor souls they steal in the night.

Now, the shukra cannot take you against your will, people started thinking about what the hell these bug eyed creatures were, and decided they were not friendly, and free will said 'no, your not taking me'. As said before, this is the reason they created the Nordic beings.

Now, this may be outside alot of peoples comfort zones, but it has to be said. Any one who comes with a 'Nordics were real nice and loved me and gave me a great time' just has terrible false memories implanted to cover over the 'hand over' to the shukra.

The shukra are also a created race, but billions of years old, and in a twist of irony were themselves created by a long extinct race BEORE this universe even came into being, but have now adapted into a sentinet hive minded system forever trying to achieve their created aim of 'domination by deciet'.

In short, the Nordic are to be avoided.

Carol

10-02-2008, 07:14 AM

I'm curious as to your source of information regarding the above statement.

halebox

10-02-2008, 07:38 AM

Are there many black abductees? Black and white=Grey

Sol Invictus

10-02-2008, 08:01 AM

Are there many black abductees? Black and white=Grey

was that worth the effort to even type? I mean come on, you used glucose up that could of been put to better use.

Sol Invictus

10-02-2008, 08:10 AM

I'm curious as to your source of information regarding the above statement.

Well now. My source.

A being made entirely of light photons which is both sentinent and able to do many, many things we as humans would attribute to 'Angels'. Sentinent is a derogatory word when applied to these beings. Four steps removed from the 'Creator' would be a better way of putting it.

In short, I should of been an abductee had they not interceded on my behalf. That was the start of the process 15 years ago of building my understanding of just how mental this world really is, and how many layers it stacks up to make what we blithley call 'reality'.

It also showed me that this universe is one of 128 in our 'gigaverse', and our gigaverse rides on a double helix structure of trillions of other gigaverses in an eternal cycle of rise and fall.

Carol

10-02-2008, 08:25 AM

Why is it I'm not surprised. Michau Kaku describes the multi-verse as multi-dimensional much like layers of pages of a book pressed together.

I was gifted with several spontanious spiritual journeys that took me into these various spiritual realms.

Your story sounds wonderous. Perhaps some time you will share more.

StClair

10-02-2008, 08:25 AM

What she describes, and it shows in her eyes in the interview, is a "program" (perhaps a holographic projection) because it is known that the Greys can pose as another race.

She was quite evidently abducted by the Greys, and what she describes is a very uncomfortable encounter with the Greys. They deceive people. We know in our DNA not to trust the Greys no matter how they appear in form.

I did not want to say the obvious at first, and I am glad clakkent found the passages in her work to draw your attention to what many others have noticed immediately when watching the interview.

Again, I would like to suggest that those interested in all this read the book "Operation Trojan Horse" by John A. Keel who explains the entire phenomenon in a very level-headed manner.

The real "Nordics" do not abduct people against their wish on to crafts or stuff like that, this is not how they work, and the contact level is completely different and via telepathy. They can also (rarely) appear among people and pass in broad daylight for earth humans.

Usually the "contact" in form of guidance is from their crafts to some of us via an inner seeing. At least that is my experience. With the 3rd eye you can see (sense) the presence of their crafts.

I hope this helps see clearer in the confusion.

Carol

10-02-2008, 08:37 AM

StClair, you're up late.

I've wondered about this as most of the positive expereinces involve an invitation, free will, conscious awareness, total recall, no false memory screens and so forth. There is a free exchange of info.

On the other side is the opposite pheonomen. Screen memories, deception, taken against ones will, memory blocked and so on.

I have always felt when there is not a mutual exchange of info, the one holding back is not operating to the good of the other. These grays decieve and cannot be trusted. They are associated with other aliens who feed off of negative emotions and some are just biological robots as well.

I like Alex Collier's description of the aliens he had stayed with for 3 months. It seems his was a very positive experience indeed.

Sol Invictus

10-02-2008, 08:55 AM

Let me descirbe the shukra for you. The name 'shukra' is a derogatory term which means 'they who shun the light'.

They really are the darkest form of being. They live and operate in a self sustaining 'hive', with a very harsh caste system or heirachy.

The smallest beings are 'workers', the larger more yellow skinned are 'Dr's', the reptil looking ones are the 'enforcers of will', the heavy almost armoured ones are soldiers to protect the hive, and then you have another layer of small shukra who keep order within the hive.

Unlike the insectoid race they were genetically spliced from, their 'leader' is sterile and a small number of tanks and holding pens are where they 'breed'.

In short, they are a biological 'machine' which is blindly carrying out its intended purpose of subjugating the gigaverse.

However, they are at this very minute getting seven layers of s### kicked out of them.

I'll explain another time about that, but its very heartening indeed to know we have some very strong allies keeping watch over us.

LadyGolfer

10-02-2008, 09:44 AM

Hello Clark, I would like to respond to your post as somehow I seem compelled to do so. The astericks are your statements....my own statements follow yours with a dash.

*ill also add that alex said the beings he was in contact with view us as "genetic royalty"- was this wording from alex or was it an exact quote from the beings?

*if a being is advanced and "enlightened" im 100% they wouldnt view ANYTHING as royalty. and the ideas of war in space dont make sense either, look at our stage of development with nukes and now scalar tech,drones,bio-weapons, etc---- dont you think beings thousands,millions,billions years ahead of us technologically would be able to obliterate an enemy or a world in the blink of an eye?- We are all One but realize that "your" 100% is exactly that, "yours". As for beings that are technologically ahead of us, why would they want to obliterate an "enemy" as you state, your wording not mine because there is such a thing as free will to decide what choices we all make, and the thought that every species in space is exactly the same in their technological advances or thought processes is IMO not considering all aspects but a blanket statement on your part.

^i think we are projecting our own limited scope of understanding and quantifying things in ways we can understand- just like when they said god was an old man with a white beard
-are you not doing just that?

*quantum physics points to multi-dimensional existence- I agree with this statement

*TRUE contact is extreeeeemely rare- How would you personally "know" this to be fact?

*my opinion is that any contactee speaking to aliens from a "galactic federation" or "council of light" with a bunch of recycled egyptian names, who's message is to write books that .001% of the population reads, and that who's sole content is that we are destructive and that we shouldnt be is being manipulated - What would the percentage of population reading it have to do with its accuracy? How did you get your percentage data? Was it given to you from some other source or did you do a study and crunch the numbers yourself? IMO I would think that what the majority is reading would be more of the manipulations.
*its manipulation to turn ET's into a kind of messianic religion that teaches how to be in balance and not destroy the planet- Why are statements regarding being in balance and not to destroy the planet a manipulation? Is this not something that certain people feel themselves? Is this not a positive statement as opposed to the beginning of your own statement "it's manipulation"

*the idea of "oneness" and that everything is conscioussess(consciousness) and that we are all connected is something we are collectively starting to understand.- I agree with this portion of the statement.

*my advice is to use serious discernment- I agree

*your(you're) free to think that- that is the beauty of free will, everyone is free to choose their own path, however I must say that the tone in your statements seem to belittle those that choose a different path from yourself....just my own observation. :original:

Steve_G

10-02-2008, 10:06 AM

ill also add that alex said the beings he was in contact with view us as "genetic royalty"

this should tip you off that you should use some common sense.

someone posted a good saying "the best lie is hidden between two truths"

its manipulation to turn ET's into a kind of messianic religion that teaches how to be in balance and not destroy the planet.

we dont need aliens to tell us the obvious and science is coming closer to spirituality everyday with quantum mechanics and the idea of "oneness" and that everything is conscioussess and that we are all connected is something we are collectively starting to understand, and it wasnt because some aliens made some random people write books in the new age section at barnes and nobles.

believing that benevolent blue eyed beautiful nazi ET's that use mind control and erase your free will to serve them as well as use invasive surgery and have robo-grey slaves is up to you. if there evening news message of "head for the hills be afraid, be very afraid" or that our planet can only support 300 million people (straight from george greens pleiadians) and that depopulation HAS to happen, is up to you. my advice is to use serious discernment and not eat up every contactee/abductee that fits the prevailing paradigm.

personally i find it funny that all those messages and techniques fall in line with the illuminati's ideas (hiding from the catastrophy/mind control/fear to rule/de population/white master race)

if ALL that just seems like a wacky coincidence then your free to think that.

i know this isnt the thrust at avalon but i hope some contrary ideas wont upset the goal and mission statement. bill has stated that you can always go elsewhere, hopefully i wont have to. :biggrin2:

You make a lot of good points there. Just to be clear, I don't claim to have the answers. That's why I'm asking questions. I certainly don't believe in messiahs of ANY description, and I don't believe in the head-for-the-hills fear based mindset either.

And I don't believe in coincidences, wacky or otherwise. :original:

Edit- to removed unneccesary parts of the quote

Steve_G

10-02-2008, 10:26 AM

Thank you for sharing that MT. I've seen a lot of the DP interviews, they were what led me (physically at least) into this area, and I have a lot of respect for all the people involved.

Blessings

Edit- to remove quote

clarkkent

10-02-2008, 12:13 PM

let me state, that im not claiming to have all the answers...i might come to my own conclusions. and for all i know st clair is right (about his overall view -radiant zones and such)

my statements are my own observations about ufology and the idea of REAL possible manipulation and super confusion regarding all this phenomena.

what st clair said (eventhough i might disagree with him sometimes) points to
that we should ALWAYS use our intuition and discernment. if what he says is true, then miriam has been manipulated which in turn meant bill and kerry were as well and then passed that manipulation unknowingly over to half the population here.

which means that in this sea of truth and manipulation its imperative to use ones own BS meter. and im sorry if when im using mine it comes off as judgemental for those who believe otherwise. my opinion is in the minority so i usually just state it as a counter argument with out qualifying every statement as "this is what i think, its not a fact"

but with that in mind if it gets you questioning or using you "gut" then thats not a bad thing.

again my opinion.

meneliel

10-02-2008, 01:55 PM

future illuminati nazi's? decide for yourself. (ps- miriam delicado left out that she felt herself go into a "robot" -read mind controlled-- state and found traces of surgery and a mental note, to "forget it, it will heal up" etc...sounds pretty peaceful/benevolent/enlightened eh?)

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/HomeMortgageSavings/designing-the-100000-baby.aspx

http://www.heatherpringle.com/books/master_reviews.html

heres an excerpt from her website and book.

""Do not be afraid, I kept hearing in my head. Do not be afraid. Get out of the car. I reached for the door handle and slowly opened the car door. It was like watching my body; I had no control. Why am I getting out of the car? I thought. It was like I was standing beside myself watching what I was doing while my brain couldn’t communicate with my body."

I found that quite odd.

Here's another quote from her sample chapter

"I walked into the house with my bags and took them up to my room. As I took my coat off I looked down at my favourite beige shirt. There was some sort of black smear on it. As soon as I noticed it I slipped back into a robotic state. I took the shirt off and put it directly in the garbage. Not only did I put it in the garbage but I also took it to the bin outside. Why? I kept asking myself even as I was doing it: it was my favourite shirt. Why not try to clean it? Even Sally tried to get me to attempt to clean it first, but I got angry with her so she dropped the subject.

After disposing of the shirt I went back up to my room. There was a dull ache on the right side of my abdomen. When I looked down at the area I noticed a round red spot about two inches in diameter. In the center there was what appeared to be an incision. Once again I heard a voice in my head. It was telling me, Do not to look at it again. Leave it alone and it will go away. There is no need to be concerned. I put my nightshirt on and didn’t look at it again for months."

Hello all :-)

When I watched Miriam's interview I got mixed feelings. I first tried to focus on the "message" and tried to avoid thinking or "judging" the messenger. When I finished watching the interview I was happy with the message and many things she said resonated with me, however there was something that kept me thinking about Miriam for days!!! For me, something about her was just not right, but I did not know what! I was thinking: yes, the message apparently sounds right, but there is definitely something wrong...

Then yesterday I realized what it was!!!

The first thing about her story that got me uncomfortably was the violation of free will! I've never have had any encounter with any alien race (not that I know anyways), but what I know for sure is if that would ever happen to me, I definitely want to be conscious and not be forced! No matter how "good" this entities are! I don't accept anyone taking me against my free will!

So, IMHO this is a disinformation message!!!!!!

No mean to disrespect Miriam, nor Bill or Kerry! I feel Miriam is being honest and B&K are trying to do their best to keep us informed and give us different perspectives. Also, there are many things Miriam says that for me are right! It is just that there are "lies between the truths"

I have the strong feeling that Miriam was abducted by grays, or whatever race, government agency, or whatever you want to call it! She was not in contact with any "evolved beings", she was tricked to believe that, and was given a truth message (arguably of course, depending on people's view point), or at least a message that many truth seekers would believe and resonate with. But then she is sending a subliminal message to the audience! (this is what I realized yesterday) And that message is: "IT IS OK TO BE ABDUCTED AGAINST YOUR FREE WILL IF THE ALIENS LOOK LIKE NORDICS (OR WHATEVER RACE YOU FEEL CONFIDENT WITH) AND IT IS OK THAT THEY PERFORM ANY SURGERY ON YOU! DON´T WORRY, THEY ARE THE GOOD GUYS"
I believe she is not doing this on purpose, I think this is the hidden agenda of whoever abducted her!

Fortunately many people have realized there is something wrong, but there are many people that would probably fall for it (unconsciously), and if they are under a similar abduction situation they will believe it is perfectly fine because the same happened to Miriam Delicado!!

Yeah, she talked about "looking in the eyes" of the being and therefore know what their intentions are, but, if it has been previously imprinted in your mind that it is not so bad that they take you against your free will because the "scenario" looks similar that Miriam´s , then many people would let be abducted more easily. On the other hand, as far as I know, this beings can easily control your mind and thoughts (if you are not trained enough, which I think is a great majority), so it doesn´t matter if you look straight into their eyes, they will take you anyways if they somehow manipulate your thoughts and make them connect that situation with Miriam´s.

In my case, I appreciate the parts of the message that resonate with me (like having seeds, and grow my own vegetables and stuff, something I´ve been thinking of doing anyways). But I am also aware and beware of the misinformation in between.

Never surrender your free will!!!

Namaste

halebox

10-02-2008, 04:57 PM

was that worth the effort to even type? I mean come on, you used glucose up that could of been put to better use.
The 1st question was honest Ive not heard of any black abductees have you? The second part was loosley based on the future human nazi types becoming nordics and the mix breeders eventually becoming greys.

milk and honey

10-02-2008, 05:30 PM

I work as a volunteer for the Disclosure Project, so I have had the good fortune to hear some of the witnesses' stories in person. Interestingly, they pretty much all say the same thing: scary, controlling abductions are secret-government/military operations to insure that contactees stay terrorized and that non-contactees shy away from the whole contact issue.
There is a big problem with this neat partition into "scary, controlling abductions = secret gov/black ops VS positive, supportive encounters = real friendly ETs." It fails to acknowledge that secret gov/black operators AND extraterrestrials can BOTH deceptively present themselves as "friendly ETs". These account for virtually ALL friendly encounters in my opinion.

Also there has likely been joint alien/human societies underground for ages and these are likely in league with surface secret gov't forces. For all these reasons i am very wary of three kinds of contactees.

1) Those who "protesteth too much" about having NO military intelligence relationships... ala Miriam.

2) Those who emerge straight out the bowels of deep black intelligence groups to blow their whistles. I suspect that they and others who talk about "my friends in CIA" etc will not bite too hard on the hand that feeds and protects them. And where is the discourse in the Disclosure Project about "ETs" and black gov't operators who deceptively present themselves as "concerned and helpful ETs"?

and 3) everyone else who is contacted by entities who proclaim themselves "extraterrestrial" as if that was the ultimate credential to prove their spiritual ID and orientation. It is not.

And who isn't an "extra-terrestrial" anyway. Every soul who incarnates on this planet is "extra-terrestrial" in the strictest sense of the word. No soul originates on planet earth. All are spiritual beings sojourning here in the cycles of time and space and all will eventually transcend the Earth to return to origin in the higher planes.

They also say that while individual groups of Skypeople hold differing views on things, they are all peaceful, and interact peacefully with one another.
As Mandy Rice- Davies would have said .. "They would say that wouldn't they."

Just as i wouldn't jump to a conclusion that all ETs are evil, i also wouldn't be too quick to take friendly encounters at face value and conclude that friendly "ETs" (or earth-humans) are trustworthy just because they're friendly and powerful and knowledgable. Things are more complex and i'd like to see more acknowledgement of those complexities all round..... including in the analyses of Project Camelot and Disclosure Project interviews.

So this thread is a breath of fresh air.

The "powers that be" always seek to control the dialogue -- even in the most unlikely places -- and they always seek to control a "new paradigm" by presenting us with 2 false choices. There are many layers to that onion.

Richard T

10-02-2008, 05:48 PM

I find that ClarkKent is tackling this intelligently. If opposed, he does not turn the table around with one liners of the type (so are you), which brings nothing to the table and reduces the vibration of a conversation instead of going further.

People have not realized yet that you can discover a lot when talking outside of the thinking box. Actually, more can be discovered this way than by nearly any other means, short of being directly and consciously plugged to a systemic entity.

Humanity is still quite susceptible to concepts of superiority. And, of course most of the time, we feel good when it is our own who is recognized as having a plus. We all know the idea behind flattery.

Eugenics is a normal procedure in the universe. It is no great matter to a race who knows not death to seek and evolve the material vehicle it uses. Such a race has no attachment to the form, it creates the form.

We, on the other hand, are captive of the form, we identify to the form, so the form has become sacred.

There are more than one way to consider a concept of 'royalty'.
The first one is obviously the concept that comes with the word itself and is historically based.
But words are forms that carry a vibration. They are a mode of transport for spirit.

And out of the vibration, which those intelligences have not been willing to express directly and without the use of words that allow interpretation, out of that vibration comes the recognition of the origin of the spirit of man.
And that origin is extremely advanced.
This cannot be obvious just looking at the current state of humankind, I know.
But what the full recognition of this does is remove the need of an individual to prove himself, to elevate himself at the expense of others, and to stick to the false identity that supports his existence as a psychological persona.

We don't need to be told the obvious by aliens, to paraphrase ClarkKent.
But we can examine what stating the obvious does to psychology.

For one, it reinforces human concepts. It give them a sort of 'higher' validating reference point.
Then, it increases the impression of being right, creating the illusion that we already are somewhere, when we have not even started our evolutionary path yet.
In doing so, the third thing that happens is that the contactee surrenders his own intelligence to the perceived superiority of the visitor.
Finaly, strong of his impression of being in the truth of the matter, he goes onto a mission.

I am certain that any person who is given a mission, or that gives himself a mission, regardless of the apparent positive or negative impressions of those who receive the 'teachings' is hired by forces that seek to manipulate humanity into its weaknesses.

What I mean by this is that they reinforce weaknesses using the resonance of positive vs negative, some sort of good cop bad cop scenario.

One aspect that never filters through is their actual agenda.

No one is going to make me believe that they come to deliver a message.

At best, they are preparing humanity to their presence, knowing that most would not stand the shock without having first been fed platitudes.

At worst, they are helping humanity remain longer in their ignorance.

I certainly have no interest for running naked in the field with flowers between my teeth.

Argante

10-02-2008, 06:00 PM

The 1st question was honest Ive not heard of any black abductees have you? The second part was loosley based on the future human nazi types becoming nordics and the mix breeders eventually becoming greys.

Actually, one of the first abduction stories I ever heard involved a black man, Barney Hill.

Betty and Barney Hill Abduction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_and_Barney_Hill_abduction)

.

Steve_G

10-02-2008, 06:32 PM

Eugenics is a normal procedure in the universe. It is no great matter to a race who knows not death to seek and evolve the material vehicle it uses. Such a race has no attachment to the form, it creates the form.

We, on the other hand, are captive of the form, we identify to the form, so the form has become sacred.

There are more than one way to consider a concept of 'royalty'.
The first one is obviously the concept that comes with the word itself and is historically based.
But words are forms that carry a vibration. They are a mode of transport for spirit.

"The investigation of human eugenics, that is, of the conditions under which men of a high type are produced." [Galton, "Human Faculty," 1883]

The problem there is who gets to decide the definition of "men of a high type." I believe the Nazis used Eugenics as part of their aryan superman ideology, and look where that took them spiritually- grotesque experiments on 'lesser races,' the holocaust etc.

The body IS a vehicle for the spirit. I don't believe the 'quality' of the body determines the 'quality' of the spirit any more than I believe blonde hair and blue eyes are an indication of 'high type.' CK pointed out that Miriam left out of the Camelot interview the part about being controlled and the surgery she suffered without her consent at the hands of these blonde haired, blue eyed superbeings.

Still, I'm sure they're telling the truth and only have our best interests at heart. I'm sure they don't have their own agenda at all.

sa·cred (skrd)
adj.
1. Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity.
2. Worthy of religious veneration: the sacred teachings of the Buddha.
3. Made or declared holy: sacred bread and wine.
4. Dedicated or devoted exclusively to a single use, purpose, or person: sacred to the memory of her sister; a private office sacred to the President.
5. Worthy of respect; venerable.
6. Of or relating to religious objects, rites, or practices.

Nowhere in there does it say anything about 'perfect' or 'high type.' WE are sacred REGARDLESS of what shape or colour the body is. You can dress eugenics up any way you like but IMO it's nothing more than intellectual camoflague for nazi master race bull***t.

Edit- Sorry, missed this definition of sacred:
3. regarded as too important to be changed or interfered with

clarkkent

10-02-2008, 07:20 PM

i was just thinking today, no matter what we think we know we are limited by our 3D worldview and still dont except that its literally (from what i know) impossible to leave a human 3D perspective.

putting things in "good" and "bad" is a natural thing, when really there is no such thing. the point of life is to exist and that means survive and evolve.

we need a yin for our yang.

thats why the idea (as much as i like it) of "of light beings/pure love" doesnt resonate. im sure there are beings we would deem positive and or negative which are both relative terms. one isnt better than the other--which isnt to say that there arent what we'd see as "benevolent" beings but to say the whole universe ALL good from this evolutionary point on doesnt make sense. lambs sheep deer and geese arent "good" just because they dont kill eachother, nor are lions,tigers and bears "oh my" ...they arent "bad" because they do rip a rabbit to shreds. both are in balance. is the grass "good" because it doesnt harm the deer? or is the deer "bad" because it destroys the grass? again theyre neither they simply "are" and work together, energy always fluctuating and being transformed...

if we are consciousness and we get to experience the totality of reality then that means EVERYTHING is valid, a peice of poo to a great work of art to a supernova. from a "grey" or a nazi or anything else.

anyhow im off topic, its taken me a while to immerse my self in "alien/gov black ops, multi dimesional reality" etc. frankly i only started to investigate this phenomena since june/july when i heard the edgar mitchell news and freaked out. it was the coolest (for lack of a better word) news id heard basically in my life.

ive gone from being an agnostic/atheist to believing in a "universal mind" and re incarnation. and for all i know im sure these concepts are inherently kindergarten level at best given all that is impossible to understand.

i know our civilization is at an apex and ive always felt i would see some cosmic sized activity go down. im only still just beginning to understand how convoluted and difficult this whole subject is, all my threads and posts are just to inject a heavy dose of looking "outside the box" as richard said, which is VERY difficult. but if you always look at WHO is saying WHAT-- and what they can GET out of leading you to think that.

and considering the multi dimensional aspect and the bazzilion different time lines scenario and co creation , getting "YOU" to "THINK" a certain way is probably more important than YOU THINK.

thanks for everyones input in this thread. :)

sirian77

10-02-2008, 07:30 PM

you can look at this way also, would you ever like to be kidnapped by unknown people in a stange car with no plates on it?

if i would encounter these 'nordics' i would ask why they disguise themselves cause this surely gives a wrong impression on a level of honesty towards strangers.

at least they could explain why they are taking you and making you do things without your own control over it.

but in most cases there is no Q&A allowed.

the "we won't hurt you and we are your family" is the same kind of trick were children get abducted with, here is some candy now will you follow me?

isotelesis

10-02-2008, 08:29 PM

Royalty in the sense that unlike many varieties of life forms out there, our creation was probably intended to be a means of karmic consolidation, obviously there is a lot of genetic memory to work through.

The methods in which they seek to improve the stock of the human gene pool have been quite idealistic, certainly lacking a proper appreciation for the holographic aspects of reproduction. In order to produce a truly viable species for the long term, we must learn to value multi-talented individuals, to become more like packs of wolves rather than castrated domesticated canines.

Therefore a true eugenicist is not a farmer which isolates animals into particular breeds for intended tasks, but seeks the best traits of the various types, creating a human which has the strengths of them all.

Anticomuna

10-02-2008, 08:47 PM

This thread is so interesting because the questions made by Clark Kent are similar to the ones I have. I have been researching this alien thing for the last months.

Basically I have the same doubts about ETs and abductions. First of all, most of abduction cases look like something else, either some deceptive person, or a person that is honest but is misinterpreting some natural phenomenon (like sleep paralysis, which I have had it many times and I know it can be scary or fun). Sometimes it sounds like brainwashing or something not good.

The contactees are also suspicious. Many of them seem to use some repackaged master-race nonsense. Alex Collier in one example, but not the only one.

But what bothers me the most is the idea of a Big Brother. This is not good. It is almost as if these so called aliens were "superior" and had the right to tell us what to do. Even if they are, who cares? Why would they bother with this planet or with us? Why would they pick one person to write books and give presentations and not show themselves in a very clear way for thousands at once (not necessarily socializing, but at least showing themselves off with a ship or something in a densely populated area)? Why do we need to believe in something that we should know?

If they don't bother to show themselves off, either they don't exist or they don't trust us. If they exist and don't trust us, even those that actively research for these things, why should we trust them? Isn't trust necessary for any kind of relationship? Isn't it a two-way street?

Workers of light? No, thanks. I prefer my Terran origin and I would rather take my own decisions and commit my own mistakes than be somebody else's puppet.

Fredkc

10-02-2008, 09:21 PM

To begin with, lemme say that I have not seen nor read the Miriam interview, so I'm basically reacting to the reactions, but here goes anyway. I am hesitant to judge another's experience. I mean, to draw an impression from someone else's impression is already 2nd order info, at best. Not only that even our own impressions are/could be subject to something planted within our own experience. Then theres a quote I picked up from the Camelot side...
"The lie is different ar every level." ;)

Besides, as anyone who was there could tell you,
"Raymond Shaw is the kindest, warmest, bravest, most wonderful man I have ever met." ;)

"Do not be afraid, I kept hearing in my head. Do not be afraid." Hauntingly familiar... I recall having a "lucid dream" back in about 1980 (the time's a bit dodgy, but at least 2 decades ago). I awoke on a table, in a room with maybe 4 "others" around me. The room table, people, everything was so brightly illuminated I couldn't make out anything distinctly. It seemed a surgery of some sort, whether physical, or "electrical" was going on. I was dinner. Upon discovering I was aware, someone said, "It's ok, relax. Go back to sleep, you're being re-wired."

Next morning when I woke up ,what bothered me as much as the possibility of the entire event was the fact that I simply went along with it. "Oh. Ok"
________________________
One I wrote off long ago, which has given me a bit of pause is from early childhood; say 7 to 11 yrs of age. That was the notion I was one of "the ones" that an off-world race was here to observe. That those chosen for this scrutiny had watchers assigned them. These watchers could make their perceived shape exactly like anyone you'd pass on the street.

I wrote off this whole notion soon after as either some childhood fantasy, or some "race mind" shared illusion. Almost embarrassed to say that for a few months, this bothered me enough that I would make noise on purpose walking down the hall, lest I sneak up on my parents, before they could "done the disguise (seems a riot now). What made me discard and then bring back the memory of it was the true shape of these critters, as I had never seen/read anyone who came up with the same description. Till a lil while ago. They were close to, but not quite like a preying mantis.
_____________________________

i think we are projecting our own limited scope of understanding and quantifying things in ways we can understand- just like when they said god was an old man with a white beard.

i was just thinking today, no matter what we think we know we are limited by our 3D worldview and still dont except that its literally (from what i know) impossible to leave a human 3D perspective.Kinda funny, ain't it? Our two failings in life appear to be:
1. The inability to lift our own body, no matter how firm the grip on our belt loops, and
2. The ability to fully envision and comprehend an intelligence greater than our own. The reverse of the "Thick As A Brick" notion.
_____________________________

Whatever other manner in which you wish to quantify our existence, I am certain we are an infinite being (soul? etc) created by another one. That this physical investiture is an appendage, of sorts.

That, coupled with the fact that as a child, I lived in another country for several years. One where "whites" were both a miniscule minority, and largely disliked. What I gained from this, then returning to the US, was a genuine experience of what it's like from both sides.

What I have taken from this includes:
1. Race ain't nuttin! If you gots a belly button then you're in the club. (Yes I know Hitchcock didn't have one, but that was surgery. He arrived with one)
2. The notion theres any difference, other than being physically better endowed for different part of this rock, is a bit silly. After all, to follow this notion to some semblence of a logical conclusion would take you to some notion that the soul either doesn't exist, or emanates from the body. Both are non-starters for me.
________________________

Nordics! Greys! Reptiles! Heinz 57! Oh my!
And they say WE'RE the ones over-populating this rock!! JEEZ!! He heh.

Not being able to see 100% beyond the veil of all this, I really can't say who is "real", who isn't, etc among all this lot. But one thing I do suspect is true is this:

Though some fear it, loathe it, envy it, or just plain can't figger it out, what we do have they all place value on is our free will. That this even includes some agreeing through the excercise of same, to give it away has got to be an attraction all on it's own. But I have a hunch this is at the crux of the attraction. And whats brought so many here, now.

Anyway... I've wandered as far as I can for the moment.

Fred

corie blunt

10-02-2008, 10:23 PM

Very hairy topic this one eh?

I'll continue to observe this thread until I have something concrete to say...which maybe I should have thought of before posting this but even I who's spent nearly my whole adult life trying to address this question have come nowhere near an answer. (Which in no way makes me an authority on the subject...I'm just saying....)

on the real bphill j dilla changed my life too

clarkkent

10-02-2008, 10:31 PM

free will.

indeed, the idea of CHOICE. the fact that its our birthright does seem to attract all sorts of people trying to subvert it. whether overtly through mind control or whether covertly through manipulation.

the lesson learned seems to be you CANNOT rule ANYONE through outright force (like dictatorships of old, they always end in revolt or destruction)

so now as in our very country (the usa) manipulation and mind control is so rampant and subtle that people dont think for a second that they are controlled--its ridiculously effective, far more than outright force.
we have mind control machines in every house that we PAY to have, we actually work to buy the mind control machine for the "man" how ingenious!

truly the Matrix!

in light of that, yes whether they are multi dimensional entities or ET's or our future selves, mind control and subversion of free will is the order of the day.

if i ever encounter any "other-ness" i think my rule of thumb will be to tell them to get lost and come back when i feel like talking. if they dont i can
assume i shouldnt listen to them.

in my 8 year old comic book reading starwars watching heart, i still want to meet an alien who just wants to chat with no agenda and will take me on a tour of the galaxy...:biggrin2:

Fredkc

10-02-2008, 10:44 PM

the lesson learned seems to be you CANNOT rule ANYONE through outright force (like dictatorships of old, they always end in revolt or destruction)For those of us who are left over hippies there is the memory of a poster called "Desiderata". It began "Go placidly amidst the noise and waste...."

That line reminded me of a bit in National Lampoon's version called "Deteriorata":

Exercise caution in your daily affairs, especially with those persons closest to you; that lemon on your left, for instance.
Be assured that a walk through the ocean of most souls will scarcely get your feet wet.
Fall not in love therefore; it will stick to your face.

Yes it's cynicism at it's biting best, a copy of which I have here (http://fredsitelive.com/fun/deteriorata.htm).

All in fun,
Fred.

Morgan

10-02-2008, 11:14 PM

anyhow im off topic, its taken me a while to immerse my self in "alien/gov black ops, multi dimesional reality" etc. frankly i only started to investigate this phenomena since june/july when i heard the edgar mitchell news and freaked out. it was the coolest (for lack of a better word) news id heard basically in my life.

ive gone from being an agnostic/atheist to believing in a "universal mind" and re incarnation. and for all i know im sure these concepts are inherently kindergarten level at best given all that is impossible to understand.

Ditto - for whatever reason my interest came to the ET/2012/err, 4D stuff in late spring, I was absolute atheist too and now it's all so crazy!

and considering the multi dimensional aspect and the bazzilion different time lines scenario and co creation , getting "YOU" to "THINK" a certain way is probably more important than YOU THINK.

It was milk and honey's post that made something click in my brain... RE: virtually all friendly (and unfriendly?) ET encounters being black ops and/or neg ET's. That would be really something. Suppose that's the case, and all this information we're being fed, about coming horrors and earth changes and doom, doom, doom... What if these are NOT ACTUALLY ON THE TIMELINE?! And yet, since we are co-creators, by creating this sense of impending doom, getting everyone out there to believe and focus on such things, implant the sense of urgency all around...

This gets us to cause the events ourselves, whether it be co-creating or self-fulfilling prophecy or manipulating or placing limits on the boundaries of our imaginations, etc. In this way, there is no free will violation no matter what happens. We've essentially consented and/or created the events ourselves.

So maybe that's what you were getting at there, clarkkent? Or maybe not :)

Teresa

10-02-2008, 11:38 PM

What IF 'one' claims to BE "a nordic" ---(or as they have put it; "of Nordic heritage from the Sirius Star System...." ---AND, they show examples of "cruelty" or exhibit "bad behavior" or "poor judgement" ???

I was under the impression that "Nordics" are "perfect beings" ......

Can anyone EXPLAIN ? ~

clarkkent

10-03-2008, 12:18 AM

This gets us to cause the events ourselves, whether it be co-creating or self-fulfilling prophecy or manipulating or placing limits on the boundaries of our imaginations, etc. In this way, there is no free will violation no matter what happens. We've essentially consented and/or created the events ourselves.

So maybe that's what you were getting at there, clarkkent? Or maybe not :)

indeed it is, i wrote this a couple time in other threads, the idea that by wrapping a lot of truths and good spiritual stuff around a fear based idea will just manipulate those good folks who dig the spiritual eco stuff into creating a disaster that didnt need to happen.

if an entity says 'you better move to the himalayas because of xyz" then i think they have an agenda and maybe arent that smart * because * if they were they would say "hey you guys have about a bazillion probable futures, try and create the one you want, dont put all your energy into the worst one"

thats my opinion of course.

MartyMcFailure

10-03-2008, 06:12 AM

what do you guys make of leo zagami saying that all the et stuff is disinfo and its really all these demonic entities

Brinty

10-03-2008, 06:24 AM

Ever notice that human-type ETs are almost always 'Nordic" or Asian-looking...

Why no black ETs?

Just a thought.

What do you think the white lights are that are seen at night?

It's their eyes of course! The rest of them doesn't show up in the dark. :naughty:

clarkkent

10-03-2008, 06:35 AM

what do you guys make of leo zagami saying that all the et stuff is disinfo and its really all these demonic entities

i think saying "demonic" has bad ties to religion for me, as well leo zagami speaks of god forgiving him and being into islam.

while he clearly has the inside track on plenty of stuff, he might be speaking of some "entities" posing as ET's, but i highly doubt he speaks as an authority figure in the highly compartmentalized world of extraterrestrial phenomena.

from my understanding very few illuminati are fully briefed the ET subject and everything it entails (stargates,timlines, etc) leo strikes me as coming from more of a religious "savior/prophet" dynamic (he mentions mohamed)

its often repeated on the forums and PC interviews because its true about "the lie is different at every level"
so im sure he has plenty of info, just not the whole story, apparantly NOBODY or no one organization is in full control or has the full story.

its so compartmentalized as henry deacon mentioned that bilions are wasted on duplicate projects because they are that unaware of other sectors work.

MartyMcFailure

10-03-2008, 08:28 AM

yeah thats what i was thinking, the leo interview is dizzying the guy talks so fast in his accent and barely takes a breath. there was a guy on coast to coast maurice cotterell talking about the sunspots and the mayan calender. he seemed to think that the knowledge came to the mayans from "christ" incarnations and that we couldnt survive on a solar system with another sun because sunspot radiation effects fertility. sometimes in my quest for knowledge everything seems to make sense other times im so confused :roftl:

Steve_G

10-03-2008, 09:33 AM

[QUOTE=MartyMcFailure;36769sometimes in my quest for knowledge everything seems to make sense other times im so confused :roftl:[/QUOTE]

That's how you know you're asking the right questions :original:

quest

10-03-2008, 09:57 AM

sometimes in my quest for knowledge everything seems to make sense other times im so confused :roftl:

this is part of the deal i guess, not only food for unseen entities (no doubt they exists) but all this info, true or false, doesn’t even matter so much. by creating i kind of internal chaos, it is drawing the attention away from ourselves, the source of inner peace and knowledge.

Richard T

10-03-2008, 10:39 AM

Hello Sunrunner.

The body is indeed a vehicle. And vehicles have their limitations and restrictions.
Just imagine a car windows size and the view it allows, its engine power, its aerodynamics, the energy it uses. Then imagine a jet aircraft, then a submarine, then a vehicle capable of functioning outside of the athmosphere, and so on.

The material human body is perfect. It does not need to evolve anymore but its vibration must be changed so that the model it represents can be directly exported to other planes of reality, There is an invisible reality behind the obvious material shell.

The body does not define the origin of the spirit who invests it. So it is not simply a matter of believing that a better body, engineered for a particular function, is representative of a higher intelligence because the form agree with a particular perception of aesthetics.

A point of view that is based on an agenda of domination necessarily proceeds from a hierarchy that is based on domination.

As for sacredness,
Nothing sacred will be left ountouched.

777 The Great Work

10-03-2008, 12:29 PM

Richard T

10-03-2008, 01:02 PM

The spirit is already pre-personal, an energy, that does not proceed from the form.

The problem is not with the form, but in the psychological value of the form.

Man will not dissolve into some sort of indefinite soup.

This is where I have a problem with both western and eastern philosophies.

One is totally hypnotized with the form and the other downplays the form.

If something happens, it is for a reason. If man infused in the form, it was not just to create an error he should one day see. What for? Someone here believes that things happen without an intelligent plan? That the realities conform to psychological projections of an ego that was isolated from his reality?

Yes, the spirit must be freed from the form. But in the sense that he must master the form rather than be a slave to the form. So, if he descended in the form, it was to assert its control over it, after having being impressed with the laws of the form at the atomic level.

Then, the laws that were used to insure the success of this movement are suspended so that what is not of the form can become conscious from within the form, and unite those two aspects into a unified unit of consciousness.

And in doing so, he will raise the vibration of the world of the form, creation, to what will be a level of civilization that is yet unknown even to the visitors.

I am certain that all the philosophies that were part of man's search for 'truth' will be destroyed and replaced with reality.

And reality can never conform to the wishes of the ego.

So if a visitor brings with him a message that conforms to what man psychologically already believes to be true, there is a problem.

milk and honey

10-03-2008, 05:29 PM

The material human body is perfect. It does not need to evolve anymore but its vibration must be changed so that the model it represents can be directly exported to other planes of reality, There is an invisible reality behind the obvious material shell.
I don't believe the human body is perfect or that beauty is a mere relative perception of aesthetics. The perfection of symmetry and form is a divine idea but not because i say so. Nevertheless an 'imperfect' human body is adequate to it's purpose and as you suggest, it can be vibrationally perfected or spiritualised. The body is adequate for the experience we need including spiritual self- realisation. And whether or not the body is 'perfect', a vibrationally perfected soul can leave it behind at death and move into higher planes never to return to the physical plane. I realise you're saying that too.

The body does not define the origin of the spirit who invests it. So it is not simply a matter of believing that a better body, engineered for a particular function, is representative of a higher intelligence because the form agree(s) with a particular perception of aesthetics.
That's an important point. That's what the "aliens" are constantly harping on to justify their interference and their brave new world of genetic engineering of the human race. That is how desperate the power elite are to bend our minds to their version of the future. They have to wrap their scheme in an "alien savior" scenario to gain our compliance and willing participation.

Although the human body has genetically deteriorated over the ages the body is still adequate for spiritual self- realisation. It is our spiritual and genetic 'adequacy' which i believe is most threatening to forces who would if they could, engineer those capacities out of the human race (to an even greater extent) and replace them with mere psychic (not spiritual) endowments and physical beauty. And you can be sure that even physical beauty would be rationed in a 'brave new world' in order to produce sub- races and therefore subservient underclasses.

At one time on Atlantis -- according to the Edgar Cayce readings -- the underclass were called "things". They were humans with tail like appendages and webbed hands and feet and feathers on some parts of the body. They were considered sub-human and used as slaves. They were the product of scientists playing god with human /animal hybridisation. The same technology is here today and perhaps similar and even worse hybrids are being produced. History repeats... if we buy it.

A point of view that is based on an agenda of domination necessarily proceeds from a hierarchy that is based on domination.
That makes sense and i see you are not saying that a helpful hierarchy does not exist.

But i sometimes hear the suggestion that 'hierarchy' is a concept ONLY of domination ... ie, that it's sole origin is in the limited 'reptillian brain' and therefore has no basis in reality. But i believe that is a false assertion calculated to provoke a dismissive attitude against the true universal hierarchy of spiritual beings.

We were created. The spiritual beings that created us (in their spiritual image) were themselves created. And the spiritual beings that created them were created also... And so on... ad infinitum. All spiritual beings in the universal hierarchy are in a continual state of growth and creativity. That includes pro-creativity which means that we too may eventually grow into beings capable of spiritually replicating ourselves.

That is the true hierarchy of which we are all a part. The hierarchy which you refer to and which Michael St Clair refers to, i prefer to call the 'false hierarchy' which exists in opposition to the true hierarchy of spiritual beings that i mentioned. The negative hierarchy of controlling, dominating beings is active in the physical and astral planes and people on earth are a part of it according to an inner alignment with it's objectives.

Power, sex, money and greed drive humans to feed it's 'black hole' proportioned appetite. And many who seem to be it's antithesis are also a part of the same beast. Vibration determines membership, not the outer forms which they hide behind, many of which are attractive to the human ego. The 'false hierarchy' have no conscious connection to source and therefore have no primary spiritual energy. So they must be sustained by a secondary source which is our blood (our lifeforce) until we turn off the faucet by awareness and the self discipline of our energies.

The true hierarchy does exist and i wanted to point out the difference between their nurturing, loving service to this world and the domineering, deceptive, service to self orientation of the false hierarchy which itself has no foundation in reality. Once we withdraw our energy from the beast -- starting with our own subconscious beast -- the false hierarchy will collapse into it's native nothingness.

Seva

10-03-2008, 06:46 PM

I Kinda maybe think it could be along those lines, they take the form of what is thought of as most attractive or coveted. Just as alot of these voices the channelers use seems to be angels or the virgin mary. its the most obvious sort of like when you communicate with someone you strive to be understood, so you look and sound like what is exaulted or expected.

Could also be they do look like that, and that we have been manipulated fromt he beginning, thats why you alwasys get the "pale angel" thing. Even though blonds are rare, and no found in many places.

Makes me kind wonder why redheads have been demonized in history. could it be my temper :P hey im never boring lol

this thread is great it is asking some really thought provoking questions

especillay the ones kent brought up as well, in a way we just tings by how they look, oh it was glowing and pale, must be good. yet that who robot mind control thing creeped me out bigtime. that is creepy, this is not how you treat someone, i mean a grown adult woman is that that dumb that you cant explain tings ot her that you put a program in her head, dont look at it, in a way isnt it insulting her intelligence i mean you put one of those colars on a dogs head after surgery so he wont chew the stiches. but this is a perosn who is intelligent and has been given infotmation ect, i dont see what a menal version of one of those dog helmets was necessary7, unless it was a different group doing it. Maybe the negative ones know who the good guys are and try to sneak in and mess with them? trying to manipulate the messenger of the other side then making her forget? it could be that complicated or not. But it is wierd and creepy.

Namaste

Seva

Good points. I wholehearted agree that humans could have evolved elsewhere. It's just that black and white people are exactly the same except they look different. Granted, if other human ETs came to earth and assimilated it was a long, long time ago and that's why present day humans are so alike with the exception of cultural and racial (features) differences.
And yes I agree.

I wonder if it might be some kind of subliminal prejudice that some contactees would wholeheartedly believe in "Aryan'-looking ETs being these exalted space-masters, but the idea of the same, except with the appearance of a black person seems silly. Just an idea.

Really- I couldn't care less about whether there are really 'Aryan, Asian, black, purple, etc. ETs at all. I just thought it was interesting that I've never heard a report of a black ET.

The point is: maybe that's why so many contactees reports are either Grey or Nordic- because that's what we EXPECT, and therefore that's the form the ETs take.

Newliving

10-03-2008, 07:23 PM

We have never had a level playing field. Not even close. The mess we find ourselves in now is NOT of our own making. If we had been left alone and reached this place then we could have no defence against these charges. But the truth about who and what we are has been hidden from us by outside forces, adults who have mercilessly abused and expoited our child race.

Am I missing anything? This is a serious question, a genuine appeal. Can someone please explain to me how our situation is our fault? Because I just can't get my head around it.

Back in 2006 I asked this question of Matthew, of The Matthew Books www.matthewbooks.com after he had said in his message dated February 11th 2006 that "Many, many millions will not make the journey with her into the higher vibrations due to...." and "This is NOT a judgment call or punishment for those souls!" I campaigned on behalf of everyone who has been kept in the dark by saying: "That being the case, I hope to hear that these people will be transported by the ETs to other worlds where they will enjoy a reward in this lifetime, or at least will die in peace, for having participated and suffered in this great cosmic drama for so long.

Could it really be that ordinary, unascending people have such negative karma that they are due to suffer in these coming times? Who amongst us, at every level of society, has not been ruthlessly prevented from knowing the spiritual reality which would otherwise inform and guide our lives?"

In his message of April 7th 2006 he answered me (indirectly), saying "No, those people will not be aware of their roles until they arrive in Nirvana, where memories will come as to what they had chosen to consciously remember during this Earth lifetime, but did not. Then, once again they will know the truth, and totally without judgment or penalty, will select other opportunities to “see the light” at the level each one needs, and therein is the fairness that caring reader wants for them. You can read his answer in full in Paras 6 & 7 at http://www.matthewbooks.com/mm/anmviewer.asp?a=54&z=2

Seva

10-03-2008, 07:30 PM

:thumb_yello: Yep all comes down to how well you can hear and then trust your own inner voice.

let me state, that im not claiming to have all the answers...i might come to my own conclusions. and for all i know st clair is right (about his overall view -radiant zones and such)

my statements are my own observations about ufology and the idea of REAL possible manipulation and super confusion regarding all this phenomena.

what st clair said (eventhough i might disagree with him sometimes) points to
that we should ALWAYS use our intuition and discernment. if what he says is true, then miriam has been manipulated which in turn meant bill and kerry were as well and then passed that manipulation unknowingly over to half the population here.

which means that in this sea of truth and manipulation its imperative to use ones own BS meter. and im sorry if when im using mine it comes off as judgemental for those who believe otherwise. my opinion is in the minority so i usually just state it as a counter argument with out qualifying every statement as "this is what i think, its not a fact"

but with that in mind if it gets you questioning or using you "gut" then thats not a bad thing.

again my opinion.

Newliving

10-03-2008, 08:16 PM

Ever notice that human-type ETs are almost always 'Nordic" or Asian-looking...

Why no black ETs?

Just a thought.

In the book 'No More Secrets, No More Lies: A Handbook to Starseed Awakening', channelled by Patricia Cori, The Speakers of the Sirian High Council describe how the creation of a 'Golden Race' to become 'The New Sentinels of Light' for Earth was enabled through the introduction of four distinct seed races, archetypes of master races, which eventually would interbreed to create an ideal genetic mix for the purpose.

One of these seed races came from a planet called Engan, at a distant point of our galaxy. "The genetic material of the Engena, beings of superior physical strength, sexuality and vital life force, was added to the genetic pool and theirs would be the overriding, dominant genetic material of the human DNA.

"You know this as the Negroid race; you associate the Engena with the color black."

So according to this, the black race is ET, and, according to the same source, so are the 'red', 'yellow' and 'white' archetypes, and "The fifth element, the planetary soul connection, was found in the DNA of Homo Erectus, Earth's foremost primate. This provided the primordial form and structure of Homo Sapiens, while grounding you forever to the soul essence of Gaia."

They go on to caution: "Be wary of applying your current prejudices to these prototypes. None is superior to the other, (note: their emphasis) for you are, in almost every way, one and the same. Within each and every one of you lies the genetic material of all four extraterrestrial races - in subtly differing measure.

But if the Engena are not showing up from Engan today, I guess it's because it's too far. :original: