Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

[Suriel]

Also, let us know if you plan on staying if the forum becomes a paid subscription forum.
This poll will help us understand how a paid subscription service
will affect the Avalon forum.

Thanks,
Kevin - Project Avalon Spiritual Mediator

[alternative-answer]

Also, let us know if you plan on staying after the forum becomes a paid subscription forum.

Why make it subscription, surely knowledge should pass freely?

[Artycarl]

I could afford to pay but out of principal for those who could not I would have to vote against subscriptions.

Would I leave? Great question but I cannot say.

If some other system of funding could be found hopefully we would never have to discriminate against people because of their inability to pay. This kind of information should be free to all.

[Waterman]

If there is an expense to hosting the forum. Then charge to offset the exspenses.

This is not about withholding information that is free via Camelot.

If people are actually interested in preparing, contacting folks, etc... it is worth it.

[borrasca2012]

WE ALL would LEAVE and just open a NEW ONE :naughty:

[Hypnotize]

I am sorry to say that i would leave if/when avalon becomes a pay site, I see no point in paying for info i can just as easily get for free.

[deb003]

I love Project Avalon. I have awoken SO SO much and learned so much. Unfortunately, I have to feed my child before paying for any forum/website and I think it will make allot of people leave, newcomers who don't know what this is about wouldn't even enter, and you might lose over 50% of the people who aready come here..
I would sadly have to leave too. :(

[Hypnotize]

WE ALL would LEAVE and just open a NEW ONE :naughty:

I agree. it's not hard to create a website and this forum is run off a basic template, so the only money it would cost to run this site is paying for server space or buying your own server. with that said if the majority of the people on this site payed a fee even a small one it would be way more than enough to keep the site going.

[Antonia]

I think I might have to...I don't have a credit card.... I have a debit card only and anything else thats payable on line normaly doesn't accept a debit card? What playment method would you be using? In princepal I think it's bettter as a free forum but if you need to cover running costs I understand
Antonia:original:

[Suriel]

According to this poll, it looks like that many members may leave the forum. Please continue the poll. And tell us why you think Avalon should be free.

[2infinityandbeyond]

I wouldnt leave, in fact it would give me more of an incentive to stay.

Being an open forum, anyone no matter who they are can come on and post. Now there are people out there who get a kick out of making waves, this is just a fact.

This forum has a specific mission, and if anyone feels dedicated enough to be part of this mission then surely they can prove this by paying a small fee to be a part of it. Its not so much about the money more then how serious people are taking this place.

These are serious times after all.

[Shadowstalker]

i love these forums, I am on every day ... but i don't even have enough money to pay attention half the time let alone pay extra to be on a forum

I think it would be rather unfair to the ones on a bigtime budget:thumbdown:
Why I think it should be free? well i think if any info where to be given it should be given to all. I could somewhat understand if it where a book and need the money and i am sure that P.C. needs the money, but what of the folks who are loyal to these boadrs and have no money to give.

[Elephant Man]

This is a tough one. Paying for it would probably keep the dis information out, but also potential new members. I would pay a sub, but not until the forum settles and "finds" itself. I feel that there are intentional dis informers, but this is due to the fact that most of the people in here are very aware and have pretty awesome info to share, if it was irellevant, then the wreckers wouldnt bother. I (like many) have been interested in an alternative way of life since I was a child, but man I've learned some amazing stuff in here, not least about myself. I thank you all :thumb_yello:

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

i have paid a donation to cameloit paypal. i put anote saying could it be earmarked for avalon.. im assuming there is a running cost for this site. those who say they would leave the site can they afford to open another one?? id pay but i think that paypal will go bust. means of money transfer online will implode when the baks implode.. internet 2 will see sites like this with alternate political veiws banned.. ill donate to camelot while we still have the internet in its current form. i think it will be gone in 6 months and internet 2 will be in its place.. anyone else have more info?? id say strike whilst thge iron is hot and use it while we go it..

[Humble Janitor]

Why make it subscription, surely knowledge should pass freely?

If there was a Paypal link, I'm sure that people may be willing to donate a bit of money towards maintaining the forums and the main websites.

I think this may work better than a paid subscription service. I'm not sure it's worth paying to access this forum right now with the negativity in certain areas.

[Humble Janitor]

According to this poll, it looks like that many members may leave the forum. Please continue the poll. And tell us why you think Avalon should be free.

It should be free but with the ability for individuals to donate money via Paypal for operating expenses.

Again, unless the content approves, I don't think it would make sense to charge money for people to view.

[371]

I'd probably leave as the only 'extra' I can pay for at this time is internet.

If I could, I probably still wouldn't.... I support the cause, but I try not to pay for what I can get/do on my own for free, in general. If I could afford it, I would definetly however make a donation.

But my biggest concern if this were to become a paid forum and as a result membership went waayy down- a lot of junk and disinfo might be filtered out but the forum could begin to operate within a vacuum. There's a thin line between being tight-knit and living in a bubble. But that problem would be a ways down the road if it were in fact to occur.

Diversity is important, for better or worse... and very many people have undoubtedly began to 'wake up' as a result of PC and this forum is a continuation of that.

If costs need to be covered then I totally understand, if I cannot participate any longer than I am grateful for what I have learned so far on this forum.

[Brinty]

Provided the cost wasn't beyond my means, I wouldn't leave. :no: The best things in life are free - but maybe the vital things might cost a smidgen. I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but I'd be prepared to pay a little more to subsidise those who could't afford the price. :original:

Has any thought been given to merchandizing? How much would members be prepared to pay for products like say, baseball caps, coffee mugs, pens and so on, with the Avalon or Camelot name and logo printed on them? :original:

[2infinityandbeyond]

I'm not sure if im alone on this one, but this forum is absolutely full of fluff. Maybe 10percent of the posts here are anything i would call usefull. Its the same kinda stuff that goes on in other forums, they post loads and loads of fluff so that you gotta really dig to get to the good stuff. A good example of this in full swing is Godlikeproudctions forum.

Cencsorship sucks big time, but lies and disinformation should be censored. People should only be allowed to post truth and that which is deemed benificial, i know this seems like a constricting idea but think about it. If there was only truth and constructive material posted then we would be going in a truthfull positive direction. Right now avalon is stalled.

[dataeast]

According to this poll, it looks like that many members may leave the forum. Please continue the poll. And tell us why you think Avalon should be free.

I think there are other avenues that can be explored to generate some income for the site to cover costs. I'm all for win/win situations. I'm not against advertising if it works for the equality of the community.

I think it would be too disruptive, I've seen other forums self destruct when there are closed sections which stagnate and the flow is inward only. It creates secrecy (PC <---> PA) and inevitably elitism which would be, in my thinking, the opposite of what Avalon is trying to achieve.

I think it would be a measure of goodwill for Avalon to be free and also put to rest the concern that there was some hidden agenda, not that I believe that to be true.

Also it might be a reason that participation might have slowed--people realized that the forum would become off limits--so stopped visiting because it's future wasn't one where they were included.

[Operator]

Hi,

Experience tells me that things go wrong when money gets involved.
I am sure costs are there and real, it will be difficult however to spread it equally over all members (there are so many).

Maybe I am too optimistic about this but ...
How about posting which costs are there to cover and let members decide freely to donate to see for themselves their
responsibility to keep this operation going ?

So show which amount is short for which date, or which extension is required and leave members responsible to meet
the resulting financial requirements.

Cheers

[Bobcat]

I'll be gone!!!

[Antaletriangle]

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/picture.php?albumid=17&pictureid=4370Bringing money into the situation; not here surely!-it's everywhere else and we talk about communities and alternative currency ,helping each other then this is proposed-i would give something to the forum in help like images/photos etc. but currency, finance??I'm a little confused now.I am a giver but i don't understand what is required here,i don't use credit cards for starters-i'm out of that race.

[HOPEFUL]

...

[munkey]

I would be personally against a fee, why would I give money to put out some serious or vital information only to be drowned out by someone giving advice on how to hug a tree to make the bad men go away?

Paying a fee would mean that those with a more dark nature could flood the forum and spread all sorts of disinformation and you would be unable to counter their argument.

[xrockketx]

I personally do alot more reading than posting, but I for one would be gone for sure if this goes to a paid subscription for one reason:
I was reading a thread a while back regarding firearms as being an item to have in preparedness. Really interesting, until the thread was shut down because "we don't condone guns".
Thats fine and all since its their site and its free. But if it goes to a pay basis, I think it should be a forum of the people. And if people want to talk about firearms, they should have right without being shutdown.
But I seriously doubt those types of rules would change.

My 2 cents.

[AndyH]

If I could pay with a laser card or possibly make a bank transfer then I'd stay.
I don't have a credit card, nor do I use paypal.

[AndyH]

I personally do alot more reading than posting, but I for one would be gone for sure if this goes to a paid subscription for one reason:
I was reading a thread a while back regarding firearms as being an item to have in preparedness. Really interesting, until the thread was shut down because "we don't condone guns".
Thats fine and all since its their site and its free. But if it goes to a pay basis, I think it should be a forum of the people. And if people want to talk about firearms, they should have right without being shutdown.
But I seriously doubt those types of rules would change.

My 2 cents.

Is that true? Guns don't kill...people kill.

[Kelphi]

Charge for truth? Come on now.

Well if your going to charge for seeking the truth and reporting back to us that would be worthy of charge. I'd pay.

But if you've got truth all figured out and feel the need to charge for it, well that sounds like your getting organized. What a minute, are you guys starting a church?

[Reunite]

Some people want to remain undetected on forums like Avalon as credit cards track the identity of users.

I agree with a paypal donation system giving members the choice

[Reunite]

There has been an explosion of activity in the last 2 months with copious amounts of information shared. IMO a sliding scale of useful information, resources and links vs personal opinions will adjust to the latter in the next coming months so people may not want to pay for another's opinion..just like mine right now

:original:

[YingYang]

I will leave to.

I can pay but i will not because Bill & Kerry say they want their info for free in most interviews.

But i think this will keep away the people who post disinfo and bullocks.
But then again what are mods for, deleting disinfo and bullocks :)

So i hope it stays free, but it is your domain do what u feel is right.

Peace.

[Anchor]

I want it to stay free.

[deb003]

Ditto on the idea of opening a paypal account for voluntary donations.
I know allot of independent sites/news don't charge for subscription but they ask for donations in order to keep funding their service since they are non-for-profit but at least then we have the choice.
When we can and want, we can donate and when we can't, we still can be a part of this.

[Brinty]

As an aside, I notice that all the objectors to paying a fee are looking at what information they get out of the forum. I have not noticed anyone voice an opinion on what information they can contribnute to the forum. :nono:

Strikes me that they are a bunch of takers and not givers. :thumbdown:

[Deoxyan]

whenever you are asked for money, raise your eyebrows..... because it´s not a good thing at all.

[Reunite]

Strikes me that they are a bunch of takers and not givers.

Please don't refer about my sexual peferences again.....:tongue2:

[historycircus]

First, I just want to say, if the PTB here need funds to keep the site going, then I say its time to pony up. If the people who run this site need money and want to pursue the posters here to get it, I say go ahead. As the poster says in in the first episode of Futurama, "you gotta' do what you gotta' do."

Secondly, it is not a matter of "will I leave," so much as it is "I have no choice." I cannot contribute moniterily under subscription rules. But I bear no ill will - I'll still come and read every now and again, and I wish all here, Bill and Kerry, and our friends beyond the behind, good will and happy future.

[historycircus]

I personally do alot more reading than posting, but I for one would be gone for sure if this goes to a paid subscription for one reason:
I was reading a thread a while back regarding firearms as being an item to have in preparedness. Really interesting, until the thread was shut down because "we don't condone guns".
Thats fine and all since its their site and its free. But if it goes to a pay basis, I think it should be a forum of the people. And if people want to talk about firearms, they should have right without being shutdown.
But I seriously doubt those types of rules would change.

My 2 cents.


I've advocated, several times, for firearms on my "For Survivors Eyes Only" thread - its been here for over a month, and the mods haven't cut it off.

[Brinty]

Please don't refer about my sexual peferences again.....:tongue2:

OOPS! :sorry: I didn't mean to expose you :naughty:

[xrockketx]

I've advocated, several times, for firearms on my "For Survivors Eyes Only" thread - its been here for over a month, and the mods haven't cut it off.

Yeah I don't know then, I just remember that thread because it was exclusive to firearms.

[WalkerTalker]

ask for donations in a creative way where it is always in front of us. there will be days i will be inspired to give and days I wont- make it easy and conveniant, allow people who donate unlimited posts, but only allow 2 or three a week for non- donators. The people who support get more perks and points, because they are carrying the poad. It would be fair that way. Make the floor donation level very easy- like a five dollar for that month. Dont do auto debet- give us a month to month option. No one likes "to cancel" . If I donate that month I get more access and more posts. :thumb_yello:

[David]

It does not matter to me and already donated money last month for support of Bill and Kerry's work.

[THE eXchanger]

i have sent in donations, from time to time
(small ones) :lmao:
however, every little bit helps,
and, i did it, because i believed it was about many,
NOT, about just a few

personally, i was told,
we are allowed "to network"
and, that is what, it is, to be about
(if you look at the members lists/and,
hit date joined)
how many of the early people are posting a lot ???
(never looked at that, but,
i'll bet that list would be interesting)

when posts, get taken down
because someone puts in where to buy something
(rather, than answer, 101 emails)
i do NOT have the time, to answer that many emails
and, it plugs up, my in box - due to 50 max. allowed
and, the posts disappear

if a moderator is going to pull a thread
i might remind them--Kerry; and, Bill
have both stated,
that the purpose of avalon is to network

that means, providing information; with posts
the what /and, the why,
SO, why am i paying / OR contributing
to be deleted/and, edited ???
(esp. if the info, is NOT off topic)

WHY would i want to pay to network on a site,
that, my posts are taken down for networking ???
(that makes NO sense)

also, if a moderator pulls a thread
it might be an idea, to forward a copy to the person,
and, the reason !!!

kerry and bill, BOTH say it is OK, to network
(moderators, then, are NOT allowing that,
and, it is even on the front page
the purpose of avalon is to network information ???)
that should include the ability to put in a url
(whether we benefit, or do NOT benefit from it)
we are NOT all here, to provide "good input"
and, do it all for FREE

that is NOT bill nor kerry's original intent,
and, neither should it be our intent,
we are here, to exchange, with others
and, do that, to our best abilities
(currently, that does NOT happen here,
we are deleted/edited, and, even restricted here
from doing just that)

So, the original information given to us,
of why to be here, was misleading,
and, NOT the original purpose
that was given to many of us is occuring

(many of us, spent a lot of time helping out,
and, those efforts, are NOT seen to be appreciated,
NOR, have they been recongised,
it is, as if, we do NOT exist,
and, i know, it is NOT just me,
who feels this way, there are many,
who have shared their thoughts, beneath the surface,
and, it is rather sad--most of them have left,
or, post/or visit the site now, infrequently
it is a good thing, we developed "radiant zones"

it also, would be nice
if both Kerry, and, Bill,
had a thread, where they shared their knowledge,
although, i do know,
this has taken off like a rocket ship,
there is still NO EXCUSE,
for very little/or no communication...
so, i would like to see each of them,
with a thread, telling us, something of value,
each and every day

Also, there was a comment
that what we type, is their property...
could we have some confirmation on that,
is it , their property,
do they plan to quote where the content orginated from ???

OR, is there some sort of hidden agenda
to plagurize us ???

thank you
susan
the eXchanger

[Brinty]

I haven't the foggiest idea what a forum like this costs to run but I do have an inkling of the cost of travelling the world to videotape interviews. So are those who won't pay to visit the forum, prepared to pay to see the videos instead?

In other words, user pays. The cost per individual would be nowhere near what it costs Bill and Kerry to travel and record the interviews which are very professionally done.

Some people spend money on alcohol, drugs and cigarettes. How many of those who do, won't pay to subscribe to this forum?

Please don't think I'm a moralist trying to show people the "right way." I'm just shining a light on what people consider to be an acceptable cost for them in their journey through life at this time. :thumb_yello:.

[RubyTuesday]

I think if the owners just said how much they need for say, the next year, then asked for donations they'd be covered. Those who can, will. I have no doubt. :wub2:

If that doesn't work, then charge dues...but I think it would be fine.

Also, I agree with eXchanger 100%.

[Tuza]

Yes Brinty I agree whole heartedly. Bill and Kerry do travel the world and put their videos and so forth up for free - so I think if people haven't got anything to pay - what if they just send a token of what they might be able to spare - just a thought.

[Starlah]

Yes Brinty I agree whole heartedly. Bill and Kerry do travel the world and put their videos and so forth up for free - so I think if people haven't got anything to pay - what if they just send a token of what they might be able to spare - just a thought.
______________________________________________
Personally I wouldn't leave if this Forum is a paid subscription however most people will feel that since they are paying they have the right to post a broad spectrum of viewpoints without being censored by the moderators...that being the case you'll find this Forum full of "clutter not worth reading" and certainly not worth paying for to read!
Credit card payments and Paypal don't appeal to me much and I can only send a very small donation (American MO) when I am able.
Starlah

__________________________________________________
Anything that is not impossible, is mandatory!....Michio Kaku

[Ngai Te Rangi]

I'd consider paying. I think the some of the posting and links has been absolutely brilliant, full of wisdom and knowledge - taking aside some of the c.r.a.p people bring here. Other than that, I'd have no hesitation whatsoever.

:roll1:

[Seven]

According to this poll, it looks like that many members may leave the forum. Please continue the poll. And tell us why you think Avalon should be free.

I would like for you to tell why it would become a paid subscription forum, if it does.
And under witch conditions ...

For now i'd have to say ... I'd leave

[Chris1617]

Unsure whether I'd stay or leave. I'm so busy I only get here occasionally. That might make it not worth my while to pay.

I differ with a couple of posters here and agree with some others:
I think Paying might deter detractors and the fluff which wastes ones time; also Internet 3 rather than 2 is in the offing -- at least in Japan. It opens to the public next summer. But I still see a place for sites like this in Web 3.

I have no issue with paying for something. When everyone wants something for free I just see economic collapse in the world and from personal experience, unless it's a freebie which is a sprat to catch the proverbial mackerel, and that doesn't apply here.

I think the ideas/suggestions of merchandising and advertising are good ones if they are workable here. Virtually all IT free spaces/places are so because they gain money from advertising. It's been shown these adverts are very ineffective, though, so how long advertisers will remain on 2D pages remains to be seen. IMO they'll all move into the coming 3D IT virtual worlds (not to be confused with existing ones like 2nd Life etc).

Although Avalon has suggested $30 dues I don't see anyone discussing price. Everyone seems to either be accepting $30 or requesting not a cent. If the annual fee were $10 I'd stay as I wouldn't notice $10. More than that...I just don't know.

One poster mentioned newbies: good point. I think somehow a one week or month free trial should be set up if payment goes ahead. People should be able to see what they are getting into and whether they want to stay before they pay. So, instigate some IT version of a cooling off period, but mods would need to have some way of knowing people weren't just changing their sign in names each week or month.

Just my tuppence worth.

[dutchie]

Well I feel if Bill and Kerry can run away to Aussie and pay a couple hundred thousand to join the ark I think they can handle the cost of this site. Where do the people who have not the funds to run away HIDE...........:annoyed_h4h:If they want the world to know and wake up this will be free of charge if not I'm gone.

[lemon69]

whats wrong with a donation system ,them that can will and those who cant wont,
if ya pay the monie you've joined the club ...:roll1:

[Humble Janitor]

I haven't the foggiest idea what a forum like this costs to run but I do have an inkling of the cost of travelling the world to videotape interviews. So are those who won't pay to visit the forum, prepared to pay to see the videos instead?

In other words, user pays. The cost per individual would be nowhere near what it costs Bill and Kerry to travel and record the interviews which are very professionally done.

Some people spend money on alcohol, drugs and cigarettes. How many of those who do, won't pay to subscribe to this forum?

Please don't think I'm a moralist trying to show people the "right way." I'm just shining a light on what people consider to be an acceptable cost for them in their journey through life at this time. :thumb_yello:.

Hmm..a bottle of 2008 Rogue XS Imperial Stout or a paid subscription to Project Avalon/Project Camelot?

Both are worthy investments but I can't age the forum and drink it and come to think of it, I can't barter the forum if I need food and someone else needs booze.

Seriously, if the price to subscribe is reasonable, I could be persuaded.

[Artycarl]

Thinking about this issue several questions have come to mind.

Firstly who pays for Bill and Kerrys trips to interview witnesses and whistleblowers, do they pay for this out of their own pockets? That is a considerable burdon if they do.

Do the whistleblowers contribute themselves to get Bill and Kerry to come and interview them...in which case they would have to be very careful that they did not generate a conflict of interest. i.e. a potential witness could hope to tap into the forums audience for their own interests. Some of these people may have books and other items to promote etc.

Thinking about this further I would be very happy if my contributions were used by Bill and Kerry for their expenses so that such a conflict would not arise.

Dutchie I think your comment highly uncharitable but perhaps the timing of this poll coinciding so closely with Bills intentions to relocate is perhaps unfortunate.

[Midnight Oil]

I sure hope that the future of the Avalon doesn't become another" disclosure project"...I love Bill and Kerry for what they are and what they do. But I very much believe that information must be free to deliver. I just do not want to see this project become another one of those we've seen before...

[Son of Eire]

This is a tough one. Paying for it would probably keep the dis information out, but also potential new members. I would pay a sub, but not until the forum settles and "finds" itself. I feel that there are intentional dis informers, but this is due to the fact that most of the people in here are very aware and have pretty awesome info to share, if it was irellevant, then the wreckers wouldnt bother. I (like many) have been interested in an alternative way of life since I was a child, but man I've learned some amazing stuff in here, not least about myself. I thank you all :thumb_yello:

My personal opinion is a paid forum would encourage more dis information,as the PTB disinformationists have all the money they need,while the rest of us have not.

[dutchie]

Artycarl
Uncharitable? I think not

Midnightoil
With ya on that;this type of info needs to be free and yes I think they are pretty great for getting all this out and if they continue better for us all.

[Gareth]

...perhaps the timing of this poll coinciding so closely with Bills intentions to relocate is perhaps unfortunate.

I can assure everyone that this was pure coincidence.

[dutchie]

When I logged on this am and read bill's post I was angry and full of fear.
Angry because it all boils down to yet again ;only the rich and elite who get to run and hide and have the best protection.
Fearful because where am I and my family to go, what are we to do when all these things happen? No extra funds no protection!

Yes projects camelot and avalon have awakend me and I thank them dearly for it but their just the stepping stones I needed nothing more.

So I take a few deep breaths and say to myself; we will survive with or without them . Will they continue without funding;perhaps, if not there are more stones out there folks.:original:

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

I have no problem with a subscription if they need the money to continue the site. BUT...

THE SITE MUST REMAIN OPEN AND FREE TO ALL, WEATHER THEY PAID A DONATION OR NOT.

Otherwise a class system will devolop of "us" & "them." I have seen it happen before.

If any part of the site is closed off, I would leave.

[shred]

MAybe im wrong but i dont know of any other site on the net that has this quality of information. May i ask why thay are going to charge ? If you need a place to host the Avalon forum I would offer to host for Avalon's forums for FREE! In hopes to prevent a subscription charge. PM me if your interested. I agree that this information should be free to public !

peace

[Brinty]

Hmmm, do I detect a few crops of sour grapes in some posts? Who, in their right frame of mind would expect by right, entry into an establishment that has, as I understand it, a price of some $48 million with more infrastructure to be built?

FACT 1. Like it or not we live in a capitalist world and it is populated by the haves and the have nots. Get used to it - most of us have had to. :sad:

FACT 2. You are going to die. It is inevitable. No argument. :rip_1:

So get on with enjoying the years left to you and try doing something meaningful instead of eating your heart out with envy. :thumbdown:

[deepblu777]

How incredibly useful...a place to find and talk to people on similar quests for truth...

This site has been a blessing for me, but I cannot afford another single bill in my life.

I gave up my car and bought a bike...no gas bill, no insurance bill..yea!

I have tons of things in abundance to be grateful for in my life, money isn't one of them.

I'm sure there are those out there who are less fortunate that I.

If we can't afford to join, then we are cut-off.

hmmm...searching for the truth alone is a lot slower, this place is so great for sharing....it would be sad.

:smoke:

[Baggywrinkle]

I will leave if Avalon doesn't become a paid service.

In fact, I already did.

The poll suggests that 81% of the respondents have no business
posting at Avalon, as proven by the porn tantrum thrown by
excalitber last week. Just because I left, doesn't mean I wasn't lurking.

Some suggestions for the administrations discussion

-If technically viable, Avalon remains available for all comers on a read
only basis. This way no one is denied critical information.

- paid subscribers are held to a higher standard leaving the food fight of the open forum and entering a classroom/library environment. Serious participants only. I left when I was attacked
personally for voicing my opinion. Attacking the individual rather than
the argument is inappropriate. I can find this behavior at any roadhouse bar. Mods, please see my reputation counter for documentation.

That is my opinion. You are welcome to attack it. Attacks directed at me personally will not be tolerated.

[David]

I will leave if Avalon doesn't become a paid service.

In fact, I already did.

The poll suggests that 81% of the respondents have no business
posting at Avalon, as proven by the porn tantrum thrown by
excalitber last week. Just because I left, doesn't mean I wasn't lurking.

Some suggestions for the administrations discussion

-If technically viable, Avalon remains available for all comers on a read
only basis. This way no one is denied critical information.

- paid subscribers are held to a higher standard leaving the food fight of the open forum and entering a classroom/library environment. Serious participants only. I left when I was attacked
personally for voicing my opinion. Attacking the individual rather than
the argument is inappropriate. I can find this behavior at any roadhouse bar. Mods, please see my reputation counter for documentation.

That is my opinion. You are welcome to attack it. Attacks directed at me personally will not be tolerated.

:thumb_yello::thumb_yello::thumb_yello::thumb_yell o::thumb_yello::thumb_yello:

[deepblu777]

Sounds like D.C. ...if you can't pay, you don't have a voice.

:smoke:

[Seth Haniel]

yes... (bags packed ready)
all info is available out there -

if a subscription based forum it runs the danger of becoming a kind of exclusive cult
not for me

[David]

Sounds like D.C. ...if you can't pay, you don't have a voice.

:smoke:

You do have a voice if you vote. So maybe it would be possible to have voting polls free to the public.

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[spacebud65]

Yes, i would leave if this forum was only open for paid subscribers.
Also it would be a turnoff for new people who had something to offer of new information. I think the forum would loose many information sources, and
from that the forum itself would loose its attraction to people.
They would go to ATS or some other place instead to post new stuff, or to just read up on whats happening out there.

Paid subscription is a wrong path to go down into!
You would basically shoot yourself in the foot, it would not served Project Avalon/Camelot or the people on it. It would be a loose/loose situation for all.

Keep up the good work! :trumpet:

[deepblu777]

Do you feel that a vote of yay or nay or even multiple choice is an adequate expression of 'voice'?

:smoke:

[Artycarl]

Bill and Kerry are going to wake up today, check out the forum and find that 80% of people would leave rather than pay a subscription and in another poll find out that 65% think the forum only satisfactory or worse.

They might be thinking 'why do we bother'.

I hope they don't take it as a personal slight against their hard work.

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[elka]

yes, i will have to leave, sorry

[mudra]

The gates of Avalon should remain wide open.
This is a time of gathering so that like minded souls can move into transition.
Avalon is one of the places that makes this a possibility.
People like you and I are making connections here , finding knowledge as well as wisdom.

If the costs it takes becomes too hard on some that they would have to close the doors,
then I feel we all have a responsibility in bringing our support so that we can keep Avalon going.

To be fair to everyone and not exclude anyone which just could not afford a membership I am in support of donations. Everyone should donate something but then only according to one's own possibilities.

Some will give little , some will give more but if everyone participates that will prove our loyalty to Avalon and we can become a team working in the same direction.

Kindness
mudra

[SplatPantZ]

I can't afford to stay if i gotta pay :tears:

I may soon not have access to the internet, so as much as i would love to help things along i simply won't be able to.

Hey love to all though, and that includes the petty squablers in this place!

I also think that those intent on disinformation will still subscribe as i think they have a tad more money than i!

Gonna find a violin now...

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[THE eXchanger]

xxx

[SplatPantZ]

If you have $$$ for the violin, then you would have $$$ for Avalon.

Didn't say i was gonna pay for it did i? :lmao:

[Norval]

I am unable to vote on this as I am still thinking about it. :naughty:

[David]

Do you feel that a vote of yay or nay or even multiple choice is an adequate expression of 'voice'?

:smoke:

Why not? It's just like our current election process. :smoke:

[UncaRay]

Unfortunately, I too would have to leave. Given that I am living "The Life" on a sustainable farm I have no spare cash of any kind. With the economy in a pile all around me cash is hard to come by and I am maintaining an Internet connection and electricity by the skin of my teeth one more straw would break the camel's back! I have no credit card and no bank account, and I suspect this would describe more of your members than you know.

Add to that my profound distrust for organizations that charge $$. It never takes long before the money takes over and changes the entire thing. Once the Salvation Army was about helping poor people. Now it's about funding the management's retirement package.

Here's a novel idea.

Post the exact amount it costs to maintain this thing. Put up a Paypal donation button and one of those widgets that lets you know how much has been donated and how much is still needed to hit the goal. Those of us without cash can donate time. Those of us with cash can donate money. And since the process is completely transparent nobody can argue, or even suspect, that the money is being mismanaged.

Hmmm?

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[bill7907]

2-3 Trillions Dollars go missing every year in America to fund the Black Projects.
You think they don't have enough money to still pay 20-30$/month to settle the disinformation on the site?

As for collecting the money from the members of this forum, I don't think the money will go directly to handling this forum, but more probably financing the travels to talk to the whistleblowers.

Whatever turns out, if money is involved in a situation like this ; you have created a barrier between the ones who can have access to this information and the ones who cannot have access to this information.

[SplatPantZ]

Did I say that you would? I said that as a comment for what you said. If you are going to have a (five finger discount) on the violin then you would, A: pay for the bus fare. B: Pay for the petrol in your car-friends car. C: Pay for a taxi...You would still need to pay in order to get the violin. It would also depend how far away the violin is, walking distance? If walking, how would you get to the violin? Maybe one or MORE of your friends would help to pickup the violin. Would you need to pay your friends for the help?

Who mentioned a physical violin?

Open up your mind! :original:

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[dutchie]

Ya know as much as I like this project I just can't help thinking; would my subscription fee be going towards this site or the ark bucket. Sorry people that was my deep feeling after reading Bill's post. I am not looking for trouble here I just don't feel right about this.

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[SplatPantZ]

Where would the 'sounds' come from, from the NONE physical violin?

Yes as my mind is able to create such sounds. Thankyou for your interest in this matter :original:

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[Suriel]

Thank you for your participation in this thread.
It looks like the overall majority do not
want Avalon to be a paid subscription website.

However, the final decision comes from
Bill and Kerry. So, I hope that some of you
do not get discouraged if they go through
with their plan for a paid subscription service.

But now that we have your thoughts
and feelings on this thread along with your
poll results, this will show Bill and Kerry
where you stand on this issue.

Thanks,
Kevin

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[Suriel]

Gordon,

This is why I created this thread. Obviously you are not shy about expressing your thoughts on this issue. So, we will take this into consideration.

Peace,
Kevin

[Peer]

Allthough I own and run a forum that could easily overtake the functions of Avalon where nobody has to pay (because of the low servercosts: about $100.- a year and of which I will not place a link here) I will pay for the servercosts of Avalon (even cheaper than my own forum) if the owners think they can't afford it.
If this subscription money is meant to go to the mods for their many hours of hard work than it's a whole other story but even that I am already supporting.

So I say nobody should pay or subscribe.

Furthermore I contribute to this forum as much as I can, bringing in my knowledge and good vibrations and I am not going to pay for being allowed to share my abundance.
If people want to share my abundance then they just have to mail me or PM and I will invite them in my house, feed them, give them a place to sleep but I will not pay them for that.

So will I leave when Avalon becomes a subscription forum? Definitly !!
The one who came up with this idea should be ashamed.

It's like an online salessite:
Offer it for free, after downloading say it's a trial version and start charging money after 30 days.
No way Jose!
We have our own Ark to build in Europe as well !!

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[David]

Having a paid subscription does leave a lot of people out of the loop but it also creates a forum that helps prevent stupid and unnecessary comments that only create negativity and distraction from the main topic.

[Peer]

Having a paid subscription does leave a lot of people out of the loop but it also creates a forum that helps prevent stupid and unnecessary comments that only create negativity and distraction from the main topic.

Yes, an eliteforum.........wow.........

[David]

Not really sure what is so elite about it. If you want to spend the money and spew negativity on the forum, get banned and sign up again, that's your choice.

[gordon]

I edited my post.

[deepblu777]

"Why not? It's just like our current election process."
:lmao:

I'm sorry, but that statement does nothing to support your position.

I take it that you believe our current election process works, for everyone?


Again, I'm sorry. It's a little difficult for me to tell in some of these posts if you're being serious or sarcastic....

If you're serious, you have more homework to do. If you're interested, I can provide you with a long list of lovely people I've found to be very helpful.
If you're just being funny...not too.

:smoke:

[David]

I believe that it is very important to be able to laugh and have fun. We waste too much of our time, energy, and talents on taking it too seriously. Generally speaking, sarcasm is not the best form of humor. There are times when a little sarcastic humor can prompt some laughter, give perspective, and relieve tension so that we can get back to being productive again. I am sarcastic by nature and will not change.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, that was not my intention. I am not interesting in supporting my position for this and is simply an opinion. If your being condescending ....don't.

[Artycarl]

Why dont we have a paid area of the forum for people to contribute financially if they want to and which might have non essentials in like a chatroom or some other area of extended content.

This would allow those who are happy to contribute to the sites upkeep to do so but would not stop other people from finding the information they might need.

[Swanny]

It's quite simple, if the owners want to use this site to make money they just add adverts, if they want to help everyone they just add paypal donation link.
It doesn't cost much to run a forum, no need to pay mods, there are always people ready to do that for free.
By keeping it free and adding adverts they will make much more money than by making people subscribe.
If they make it subscription only they will kill it, they will lose a lot of people and their opinions and help, they end up with a few people and some of which will probably think they are better than those that can't afford it.
As for a subscription stopping misinformation that's a joke isn't it??? :lmao:

I wouldn't want to be part of this forum if I had to pay, irrelevant of whether or not I can afford to do so.

[Average Joe]

I can afford to pay but won't pay. Information that could save your ass should be free. And as I'm not yet convinced that my ass needs saving from anything that is about to happen (or more likely, not happen), then I don't want to be paying for information that could be pointless or useless.

I understand that Bill and Kerry have running costs which they have to meet for the forum and for their extensive travelling.

There must be other ways of raising funds.

[David]

There must be other ways of raising funds.

How about paraphernalia such as bumper stickers, T-shirt, hats and such? This is a website called http://www.zazzle.com that makes these items easy to design and order.

[Ampgod]

I do appreciate what they do for the masses here.
However, I would make the choice to leave if this became a pay site.

That's my insignificant 2 cents worth. :tongue2:



Peace,
Ampgod

[deepblu777]

Again, sorry, I didn't mean to sound condesending either.

Gosh, we must be so careful to speak from the heart and not be misinterpreted, right?

All my best feelings!

:smoke:

[suchanawesomekid]

i don't know
but i think avalon should remain totally free
thats the key to the success of places like myspace and youtube.

peace xx

[Patchjacket]

I'm still thinking about it.
Bill and Kerry are in a Not for Profit business by choice.

It comes to mind that Bill and Kerry established the forum to complement the Camelot site. It's comparable to adding a cafe to a filling station. The filling station is doing well. The cafe isn't pulling it's weight and is costing a lot in time and energy.

In such cases a business owner would either re-tool the cafe business to run according to the business plan or shut it down. Perhaps the forum was too big a step. Perhaps their interests are now elsewhere. Or, perhaps they need deep pocket sponsors.

It's not the customer's problem!

In any case, raising prices on the customer won't solve a business problem.
Patchjacket

[Peter]

Hello Avalonians,
I'm a new member of this forum. This is my first post and here's why:
I've found a link to this forum about a month ago. Ever since I've read numerous threads and post daily. I feel my life changing.... I'm changing! Without going into details of my "awakening" process which is still in a very early stages I'd like to ask to please leave this door wide open for others like me. I would not give this forum a second look if I had to pay to "take a peek". I'm still searching for the path my life will take me and this forum is my guiding light. Thank you Bill and Kerry, thank you andmin and mods and thank you all members for sharing and believe it or not - teaching to take the first steps and balance the anormous amount of information we're absorbing. :original:
Hopeful

I have'nt read all of the 5 pages of posts so far but I agree with HOPEFUL, if I introduce new people to this forum they would'nt bother with it if they and I speak for myself had to pay. although Operators idea of asking for timely donations is a good one i believe.
I'm prepared to contribute for the cause and thank you Bill and Kerry and the team and all of you who open doors closed to many, thankx, Peter.
Keep on keeping on.

[DiVineEnvy]

It comes to mind that Bill and Kerry established the forum to complement the Camelot site. It's comparable to adding a cafe to a filling station. The filling station is doing well. The cafe isn't pulling it's weight and is costing a lot in time and energy.

In such cases a business owner would either re-tool the cafe business to run according to the business plan or shut it down. Perhaps the forum was too big a step. Perhaps their interests are now elsewhere. Or, perhaps they need deep pocket sponsors.

It's not the customer's problem!

Where the filing station and cafe analogy breaks down is that you typically have to at least buy a cuppa coffee (if not the breakfast special) to sit at the cafe. Speaking of coffee, the mentioned $30 per year subscription translates to a paltry $2.50 per month. That's less than than what you'd have to shell out for just a single cafe latte. That's cheap!


Some suggestions for the administrations discussion

-If technically viable, Avalon remains available for all comers on a read only basis. This way no one is denied critical information.

- paid subscribers are held to a higher standard leaving the food fight of the open forum and entering a classroom/library environment. Serious participants only.

Baggywrinkle's suggestion of allowing non-subscribers to read threads on the forum but not to post is akin in Patchjacket's filing station analogy to being able to look at people through the cafe window enjoying a meal and even being able to overhear the conversation at the table, but not being able to order anything or being a part of any conversation. Maybe if they are hungry enough, thirsty enough or if the conversation in there sounds interesting enough, they might just be motivated to walk in and pay for a cup of coffee.

[linkes]

Hi

I am on a site where they had the same issue didnt want to take the subcription away from those who could not afford, so they instituted an auction section where memebers auctioned off stuff or services which they donated while other members bought all the stuff and also had donation section.

The site is still going so it must have been sucessfull I donate when I have the money and buy items or services from this site on a regular basis but it also give me the freedom to still be a memeber when I cant afford it.

Peace and Blessings
Linkes

[dayzero]

I wouldn't mind, it's not a lot to pay, and it may weed out some of the timewasters too.

I would have thought that. what with server space and admin etc etc to pay [this forum is growing] that something has to be paid for at some point.
The question is, do you want adverts [NO!] or a small subscription [YES!]

Also bear in mind that Camelot and all the interviews [hours and hours thereof] will still be free, so....

[And no, i don't work for them!]


:original:

[dayzero]

>

[Evolution22]

Also, let us know if you plan on staying if the forum becomes a paid subscription forum.
This poll will help us understand how a paid subscription service
will affect the Avalon forum.

Thanks,
Kevin - Project Avalon Spiritual Mediator


Yes would leave.

What a horrible idea. I hope this Idea isn't from Bill or Kerry!

[dutchie]

Allthough I own and run a forum that could easily overtake the functions of Avalon where nobody has to pay (because of the low servercosts: about $100.- a year and of which I will not place a link here) I will pay for the servercosts of Avalon (even cheaper than my own forum) if the owners think they can't afford it.
If this subscription money is meant to go to the mods for their many hours of hard work than it's a whole other story but even that I am already supporting.

So I say nobody should pay or subscribe.

Furthermore I contribute to this forum as much as I can, bringing in my knowledge and good vibrations and I am not going to pay for being allowed to share my abundance.
If people want to share my abundance then they just have to mail me or PM and I will invite them in my house, feed them, give them a place to sleep but I will not pay them for that.

So will I leave when Avalon becomes a subscription forum? Definitly !!
The one who came up with this idea should be ashamed.

It's like an online salessite:
Offer it for free, after downloading say it's a trial version and start charging money after 30 days.
No way Jose!
We have our own Ark to build in Europe as well !!

I am in the Netherlands Peer lets go for it:thumb_yello:

[dutchie]

Having a paid subscription does leave a lot of people out of the loop but it also creates a forum that helps prevent stupid and unnecessary comments that only create negativity and distraction from the main topic.

Sorry ahhhh Dave, where is it written money makes ya less stupid in your comments?:blink:

[suchanawesomekid]

i think avalon should have a giant "donate now" button on top of every page
like they have on the real news website

but the concept of the forum should remain 100% free
it could be a real logistics error to charge for posting privileges

please bill, kerry and the rest of the avalon team, think about this one



xx

[efields]

Yes a Donate Button is whats needed. Many of us have no money to live let alone send money to support others. My work ended with the financial crisis and I really have no extra finds for Avalon, Whitley Strieber, or Jeff Rense etc. SO if coin will be needed to enter It will be a place like Rense. I used to love hearing/going but now I occasionally go to read an article.. Same goes for Art Bell. I can't even remember last time I went there, just can't afford it. If I sell my home or get work I'll consider a donation, but thats the real deal. Just have no extra till or when I do I'd be happy to donate... But can't now.

[David]

Again, sorry, I didn't mean to sound condesending either.

Gosh, we must be so careful to speak from the heart and not be misinterpreted, right?

All my best feelings!

:smoke:


Hi deepblu, you hit the nail on the head. I think a large part of problems on this forum are misunderstandings. Text by nature lack emotion unless the poster is incredibly articulate. I am not and although some of my post may come off a little rude, 99.11% of the time I have good intentions but no none is perfect.

Lets all have one big hug. I'm serious!


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2286/2268782629_738d638421.jpg

[Baggywrinkle]

Many of us have no money to live let alone send money to support others.

It might be acceptable to donate time or knowledge instead of $$

We are real people with real skills.

A work shares system could be explored. Bartering knowledge for labor or goods. Yes, goods. You teach me
basic electricity, I ship you a bushel of sweet corn.
Ebay style.

Quid pro quo, something for something.

Avalon is about international community. Virtual communities can transcend the barrier into reality.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. The money system
is dying. What will you do to adapt?

How big can you dream?

[whitecrow]

I've already posted my opinion on having to pay here...I will leave and never look back. The only reason I've seen suggested for having to pay is so we can support Bill and Kerry's globe-hopping. Why should we? They never mix with the hoi polloi. Not interested.

Then there's the even more important matter of passing information freely. The truly historic nature of the Internet is that for the first time ever, millions of regular folks from all over the world can hook up in real time. This can be abused of course, and often is...but the potential for spreading and sharing ideas is phenomenal!

My position is, if you want to make money from the Internet, set up a website and sell something. Thousands of people are doing it. But to set a pricetag on the interchange of ideas is just wrong.

One more point. If I was asked to contribute voluntarily, I would. I value this forum highly enough that I'd even devote some of my time to help moderate (I've offered - no interest - that's ok by me too). But I'm insulted when someone suggests that if my income doesn't reach their standards I'm not worthy to share ideas with them.

[herbivore]

requiring people to pay in order to access a source of information and interaction with like-minded people? that's no change. that's exactly what the powers that be would do.

forcing a more narrow-mind on all and everyone through the requirement of monetary exchanges for knowledge? sounds like the policy of many familiar institutions...

[herbivore]

IT IS an insult when someone suggests that if my income doesn't reach their standards I'm not worthy to share ideas with them.

[herbivore]

p.s. is this the change you wish to see? :wall:

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

the fee would be to pay for the hosting of the servers and nothing more. as i understand it. bill and kerry get funded off backers and richer contributors do they not??? ill pay a small fee, as i understand it the economy will collapse so how do we pay for it anyway..

the scenario will be paypal ect will collapse, by the time that new methods are forced upon us internt 2 will be on track and these sites will be gone .. anyone agree with this summation?

[herbivore]

i have some experience with hosting your own website and i can say that the server fee would be fractions of a cent if evenly distributed among all the avalon forum members. general camelot/avalon contributions could undoubtedly cover this cost.

you may be right, pineal pilot; the internet 2 is just going to be another idiot box, like the t.v. i don't plan on participating

[zorgon]

Allthough I own and run a forum that could easily overtake the functions of Avalon where nobody has to pay (because of the low servercosts: about $100.- a year and of which I will not place a link here) I will pay for the servercosts of Avalon (even cheaper than my own forum) if the owners think they can't afford it.

I hear a lot of talk about 'server costs' and 'bandwidth costs' While this was true years ago... I suggest people do a little research. My hosting company that I will link to is charging me 166.00 for TWO years... This includes FIVE(5) domain names hosted on the SAME account ( a one time fee of 12.00 if you want a pointer, no fee if its a separate site)

For this I have 5 TERABYTES of storage, 5 TERABYTES of transfer per month. Upgrades of 1 TERABYTE are one time fee of 49.00...

So far my usage needle has not even flickered... http://globat.com

So the issue is not server space... Now if they need travel expenses that is a different matter...

ADS

Who really cares? Yahoo, Myspace, Google all have them. ATS has one at the top and one at the side... Though ATS has it in their terms of use NOT to use ad blocker... well who will stop you? (if you have no honor :tongue2:)

Do you know how much money ad revenue is worth? Check out http://www.dnscoop.com/

This site calculates the value of placing an ad on a site... I have already turned down two offers that came to me to put ads on my site...

ATS lists at $251,600.00


Myspace lists at $1,124,200,000.00
Yahoo lists at $1,280,000,000.00
Google lists at $1,776,000,000.00

Here is the single ad link value for ATS... the Big sites cannot even calculate it..

The estimated value of a single link on abovetopsecret.com is: $117 /month
If you were to sell 8 links on abovetopsecret.com, you could generate $936/month in revenue for your website.

Welcome to the REAL world :bleh:

Currently Camelot.org is at $18,530.00 :shocked: Last time I checked and posted this a few weeks ago it was $4,234.00

The estimated value of a single link on projectcamelot.org is: $29 /month
If you were to sell 8 links on projectcamelot.org, you could generate $232/month in revenue for your website.


I hear people at ATS always complain about those sharing information and writing a book to "make money" as if that was evil... yet those same people don't seem to have an issue with ATS being worth hundreds of millions...:mfr_omg:

ATS also runs a store...


ATS GEAR
http://www.cafepress.com/abovetopsecret

ONE coffee mug with Logo... $12.99
http://www.cafepress.com/abovetopsecret.27020138

Long Sleeve Dark Conspiracy T-Shirt... $24.99http://www.cafepress.com/abovetopsecret.88398235


Total ATS member accounts: 149,144

If every member not counting guests buys just ONE mug...

12.99 times 149,144 equals $1,937,380.56

Avalon currently has 4940 members

12.99 times 4940 equals $64,170.60


I would gladly by a coffee mug... at least I would have some value for my support...

HOWEVER If Avalon is making that kind of money on 'selling' my work (posts) I might want to consider getting a 'piece of the action'


This is one of the MAIN POINTS people miss when a site goes subscription...

The material that makes a forum interesting enough to be paid for... is provided FOR FREE by the members... if there was no member content... provide by people that wish to share the truth... there would be NO REASON to be here let alone pay for it...

I spend long hard hours researching and posting in various forums...

Those of you that know my work can see that...

I offer this time FOR FREE...

If someone was making millions of dollars (like ATS) on work I provide free of charge, as well as MY BANDWIDTH and server space where I host the images etc for my posts I would have to seriously reconsider my participation.

The only reason I still post at ATS knowing the money they make... is because the MEMBERS still get my info free... and I have many a LOT of contacts through my work there... people like John Lear, Russ Hamerly from Boeing, and Edgar Mitchell... to name a few...

This is payback for my work that I can live with :wink2:

Two contributors to Pegasus opted out of sharing articles with us when the went strictly subscription... One was Ellen Llyod of UFO Area... http://www.ufoarea.com/

Subscription at Avalon?

I am outta here... :thumbdown:


Furthermore I contribute to this forum as much as I can, bringing in my knowledge and good vibrations and I am not going to pay for being allowed to share my abundance.

A VERY good point to add to my statement above :thumb_yello:

You have to pay to contribute free content... uh huh sounds like a great idea...

Uh yeah right :smoke:


The one who came up with this idea should be ashamed.
No way Jose!
We have our own Ark to build in Europe as well !!


:thumb_yello:



PS If ya go for the store idea I expect a free mug and an autographed T-Shirt for showing you the numbers:lmao:

[deepblu777]

David, Darling, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

You warmed my heart.

There is a lot of serious stuff at stake here, granted. Important to keep our wits, sense of humor and compassion all about us, yes?

Back to topic: I hope they don't start charging though, finding new perspectives helps me see truth. I also hope this is not a financial hardship for Kerry and Bill, we can all relate!

Here's a 'HA-HA' for you....always makes me giggle a little.

Jim Varney, 'Ernest Scared Stupid'...

'...there ain't no trees in Batswanna, uh-uh. I know. I am a Batswannian lumber-jack and I ain't never had a job!' :lmfao:

Peace, ya'll!

:smoke:

[herbivore]

" zorgon
Project Avalon Member

zorgon's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 666 "

:shocked:

[Baggywrinkle]

IT IS an insult when someone suggests that if my income doesn't reach their standards I'm not worthy to share ideas with them.

So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines. Demonstrate that you
are serious and not just a leech.

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?

[herbivore]

So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines. Demonstrate that you
are serious and not just a leech.

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?

i admit a little cash in pocket wouldn't be something i'd oppose, in the circumstance that i actually did some work for the exchange. but, it depends on the 'database' of information you're referring to. if it's a avalon database or something of the sort, i wouldn't accept a monetary exchange for the truths i find. we're trying to step away from the monetary system. and besides, that's just a little step closer from the independent to bias line, in my opinion (which is the last thing we need); the truth mustn't be bias.

so what are you doing to stop 'serious end sober enough' 'opportunists' and 'snipers' (which are equally 'serious end sober enough' as the genuine posters,) from coughing up the few bucks to post? i think they would be as serious as we are, so a fee doesn't stop them. i'd think that anyone spending their time on this forum is serious about it, time is an important resource in this body. a fee just stops the people that don't have the monetary resources to pay. and in the process you omit a large group of genuine posters from being able to share their truths.

although being able to read the posts but not post yourself isn't as bad as not seeing the forum at all, which is what i had in mind when this was brought up. i hope this isn't taken too heavily, the internet has a way of doing that. more often i think we all need to try and 'be the change we want to see' in every little aspect of life.

[zorgon]

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?

:lmao:

I have known a few in our guild that seem to have no problem with that...

That and show up to play after the setup work has been done, then suddenly have a urgent family matter at teardown.

We call em 'good time Charlies' :tongue2:

[Peer]

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?

No, I would bring my brother.....:cheers:

[Mercuriel]

I will remain - Regardless...

:wink2:

[whitecrow]

So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines.

And for those who are not talented writers?

[Baggywrinkle]

And for those who are not talented writers?


A photo essay perhaps? The eloquence is not the issue,
the effort and information is.

If you can grunt and point and still teach how to build a
fire, this is a good thing. It is valuable without money
exchanging hands.

Avalon is about building community. We all have skills
we can share at this level which will then trickle down
to end users all over the world. That is what the database is all about. That is why I signed on as a researcher. Hopefully it is more than a cool green title.


The database would ideally be a searchable indexed collection of this knowledge in coherent easy to read
articles. A group effort to benefit us all and help see us
through hard times. The Fer Fal essays are a good example. His information is priceless because his information is first hand fact, not theory.

For example, Fer Fal teaches that in a collapsed crime ridden society you are most vulnerable to attack when
entering or exiting your home. Who woulda thunk it?
Nice tidbit to know if zombie time comes, ehh?

[herbivore]

you claim this knowledge in this potential database would be in the class of 'priceless', yet a fee would be required to share the priceless information?

[Baggywrinkle]

you claim this knowledge in this potential database would be in the class of 'priceless', yet a fee would be required to share the priceless information?

Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?

In a community garden there are shares. Shares may be
earned with labor or with cash. Is it my responsibility to
make sure that you eat when there is no food to be had
and you have done nothing to prepare? To an extent, yes. That is called charity. Are you looking for handouts? I can help. It is free for the taking if you know it exists and you know where to find it. It is priceless, and it will help feed your family in hard times.

http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/zcontent/alpha_strategy.pdf

There, now you can't say I never gave you anything.
Of course, it would be a good idea to support the author by buying a hard copy.

Is it my responsibility to show you how to grow the food
if you are unwilling to lift a finger on my behalf? In community I've got your back, we work together to our mutual benefit. In a welfare society you'd better work harder because they are all depending on you. The mods here are all volunteers. What have you brought them that will help feed their families if the system really does
crash?

In your own community/ground team group, how much
deadwood will you carry before you rebel and say enough?

The right information when I need it in a concise format
without wading through pages of unrelated and often trivial debate. That is priceless. I would pay money for it, big money. Indeed, I have in the past.

[KathyT]

Perhaps this should be moved over to servers who do provide free services to group forums. Yahoo groups is one and Google groups is another.

If what is important is getting the word out... there would be a lot of openness in those groups!

[gordon]

Most-All members have aggreed that 'paying' for a Subscription is a bad Idea. MAYBE...Bill-Kerry and the Mods can have ads from companies placed on each click (going to each page-section of Avalon. In that way it would solve alot of problems with paying the bills.

[whitecrow]

Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?

If that's your position, then I think you aren't fit to be a researcher for a forum that concerns itself with shifting to new paradigms and a new society. You're just carrying your old baggage right along with you.

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.

[Baggywrinkle]

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.


Where's the beef?

You need an invitation?

Start right here by wading through the pages of stuff in this forum. Condense it down into a concise indexed easy to read format. Contact Colin and tell him you want to be a researcher and you want
access to the researchers area. Tell him I said to double what I'm making out of the deal. You can
even choose your research topics.

[THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR]

Also, let us know if you plan on staying if the forum becomes a paid subscription forum.
This poll will help us understand how a paid subscription service
will affect the Avalon forum.

Thanks,
Kevin - Project Avalon Spiritual Mediator

Hi Kevin,
I haven't read the replies on this thread so I dunno what others are saying, my points are:

This is tough one because even though I have enjoyed being a part of the Forum and totally support and are deeply grateful to Bill and Kerry for what they do, I'm not sure I will stay if there is subscription.

Without wishing to get all political my gut feeling is simply that a community like this should be an 'ACCESS ALL AREAS' situation for everyone, no exclusions and for that reason alone it should BE FREE, no charge, no fee.

My reason is that we are living in and through exceptional times and the free-flow and unobstructed passage of ideas and information is both vital and essential.

One for all and all for one...I say!

PEACE OUT

[gordon]

You need an invitation?

I do not mean to 'stir the Avalon pot'...but a while ago, Carol did request to all if the members would like to be a Mod. Whitecrow if you do know or not, the Mods on Avalon-Camelot use their free time to be on here. They do it because they want to, they do not get paid to be here, they pay with their free time to deal with the members.

[dutchie]

It might be acceptable to donate time or knowledge instead of $$

We are real people with real skills.

A work shares system could be explored. Bartering knowledge for labor or goods. Yes, goods. You teach me
basic electricity, I ship you a bushel of sweet corn.
Ebay style.

Quid pro quo, something for something.

Avalon is about international community. Virtual communities can transcend the barrier into reality.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. The money system
is dying. What will you do to adapt?

How big can you dream?

Well I guess that would be a great concept for the ark.Isn't that what all of this is about;helping one and all.

[dutchie]

No, I would bring my brother.....:cheers:

:roll1::roll1::roll1::thumb_yello:

[dutchie]

If that's your position, then I think you aren't fit to be a researcher for a forum that concerns itself with shifting to new paradigms and a new society. You're just carrying your old baggage right along with you.

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.


:thumb_yello::thumb_yello::thumb_yello:

[dutchie]

the fee would be to pay for the hosting of the servers and nothing more. as i understand it. bill and kerry get funded off backers and richer contributors do they not??? ill pay a small fee, as i understand it the economy will collapse so how do we pay for it anyway..

the scenario will be paypal ect will collapse, by the time that new methods are forced upon us internt 2 will be on track and these sites will be gone .. anyone agree with this summation?

You said it all in a nut shell;Bill & Kerry get their funding from wealthy contributors.:trumpet:

[suricatt]

I'm very surprised you're actually considering paid subscriptions. In my view, it goes against the whole philosophy behind projectcamelot/projectavalon.

...my answer, just for the sake of the poll :
YES, I would leave!

[Swanny]

Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?

Bit of a selfish attitude there mate.
Do you only give in the hope you will receive something in return???
Good luck in the future.

[ABHA]

Would have to leave, disabled and broke lol
have a great day, and maybe learn how to find sponsors eh :zip:

[Baggywrinkle]

Bit of a selfish attitude there mate.
Do you only give in the hope you will receive something in return???
Good luck in the future.

Something for nothing, Chicks for free? Is that YOUR attitude? Are you a dole bludger or still living at home with mum & dad? Box your computer up then, mate, and send it to me. I'll be waiting with my hand out.

A fair exchange of energy rather than the sense of entitlement that you seem to be promoting.

It's called the Golden Rule btw
(:mfr_omg: I had no idea I would be teaching ethics 101 at Avalon. But there seems to be a crying need)

[Mark]

I wouldn't wnt to leave if this forum was a paid forum, but would have to leave because I have no money - simple.

Fell a little strange - having this forum brought to us for nothing and then having to pay for it - what's that all about? It's dealing in drugs - you get the first one free and then you come back to me for the rest but you're going to have to pay...

[Baggywrinkle]

I wouldn't wnt to leave if this forum was a paid forum, but would have to leave because I have no money - simple.



That is why I am petitioning for a read only forum
or a labor share for those
who cannot pay So that you still have access to critical information.

I have no idea what Bill Ryan's agenda is, and have no more or less pull than you do.

[elsinorelore]

Hey, Ive said it before so Ill say it again; I think of Project Camelot and this forum as 1 hell of an education! Thats my personal opinion, I support everything that Kerry and Bill have brought forward to us, and all of its been for free for so long! They deserve some more support! The fee is still cheap as chips, and whether I believe in or against some the info Ive learned here, its been informative to say the least, & I like to keep my learning open to every side of information thats is brought to this forum...And hey, those that wont stay, thats your option, but I feel youd be losing out on this great tool of opportunity to grow. Ive read alot of things here I dont necessarily agree with, but Ive shared alot of GOOD with descent, open minded indiviuals, which is much more important to me, and even when I dont agree with others, I try to use discernment, and see if theres anything that can be learned from opposite opinions from others. Hate to see anyone go , but oh well, good luck and be well!

[elsinorelore]

sorry, forgot to add this in last time, I cant afford too much, but I can say that I can afford to help out 2 people. Maybe the moderators can figure this out, Im sure alot of us here would be more that happy to help someone out if they can not afford it!

[herbivore]

:thumb_yello::thumb_yello::thumb_yello:

"Alpha Strategy: 1. the first plan for an individual to protect his wealth. 2. the best plan for protecting the basic savings of any individual during times of monetary turmoil."

THIS is what you're preaching on this forums about, in defense to no one wanting to pay your fee?!

first of all, we're all in a time of monetary turmoil right now. period.

secondly, are we not trying to rid ourselves and the earth of monetary and material baggage? that's not being the change you want to see.

thirdly, i myself am very surpised to have seen an avalon researcher like you act like this. you're supposed to be what the groundcrew looks up to in their time of need. instead you're asking for money for the work you VOLUNTARILY started in the first place.

:mfr_omg:

[herbivore]

Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?

In a community garden there are shares. Shares may be
earned with labor or with cash. Is it my responsibility to
make sure that you eat when there is no food to be had
and you have done nothing to prepare? To an extent, yes. That is called charity. Are you looking for handouts? I can help. It is free for the taking if you know it exists and you know where to find it. It is priceless, and it will help feed your family in hard times.

http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/zcontent/alpha_strategy.pdf

There, now you can't say I never gave you anything.
Of course, it would be a good idea to support the author by buying a hard copy.

Is it my responsibility to show you how to grow the food
if you are unwilling to lift a finger on my behalf? In community I've got your back, we work together to our mutual benefit. In a welfare society you'd better work harder because they are all depending on you. The mods here are all volunteers. What have you brought them that will help feed their families if the system really does
crash?

In your own community/ground team group, how much
deadwood will you carry before you rebel and say enough?

The right information when I need it in a concise format
without wading through pages of unrelated and often trivial debate. That is priceless. I would pay money for it, big money. Indeed, I have in the past.

this is not a community in which we're all trying to survive, this is an internet forum.

"Is it my responsibility to show you how to grow the food
if you are unwilling to lift a finger on my behalf?" - are you saying that it's not your responsibility to research if we're unwilling to pay you?

in a living community, of course i would carry my wight to keep myself and others alive. but that's a far cry from this internet forum we have here.

first you said the truths that are found here are priceless, yet you're literally putting a price on sharing those truths.

do you sit at this forum all day? and do nothing else to make a living?

"The mods here are all volunteers. What have you brought them that will help feed their families if the system really does
crash? " ARE YOU SERIOUS?

volunteer - 1. a person who voluntarily offers himself or herself for a service or undertaking. 2. a person who performs a service willingly and without pay.

i guess i lost the memo that said i have to pay back anyone who's ever gave me knowledge.

i'm done ranting.

[Swanny]

Something for nothing, Chicks for free? Is that YOUR attitude? Are you a dole bludger or still living at home with mum & dad? Box your computer up then, mate, and send it to me. I'll be waiting with my hand out.

A fair exchange of energy rather than the sense of entitlement that you seem to be promoting.

It's called the Golden Rule btw
(:mfr_omg: I had no idea I would be teaching ethics 101 at Avalon. But there seems to be a crying need)

No I happen to be self employed living in my own place helping people when I can thx
I'm a nice bloke thx :original:

[milk and honey]

A discussion forum is something that all members contribute their time and knowledge to. No-one should have to pay to participate in an exchange like that.

If you need to charge for something then charge for the product itself... ie.. Project Camelot videos. Perhaps one dollar per view would be fair and would generate a lot of money.

If you insist on disseminating that info for free then choose some other product to sell. A fee for the discussion forum should be the last thing on your list. It is unprecendented i'd say for good reason. It's not fair.

I wouldn't pay to read and contribute what I and other forum members post here. A lot of it is just blather and personal opinion anyway.... which is all very well as a free exchange.

[Ant0ni081]

A discussion forum is something that all members contribute their time and knowledge to. No-one should have to pay to participate in an exchange like that.

If you need to charge for something then charge for the product itself... ie.. Project Camelot videos. Perhaps one dollar per view would be fair and would generate a lot of money.

If you insist on disseminating that info for free then choose some other product to sell. A fee for the discussion forum should be the last thing on your list. It is unprecendented i'd say for good reason. It's not fair.

I wouldn't pay to read and contribute what I and other forum members post here. A lot of it is just blather and personal opinion anyway.... which is all very well as a free exchange.

Agree with everything you stated here. Good post and to the point.

We can try to free our minds. . . .but never our wallets it seems lol :lol3:

Takecare all

[Worlds Beyond]

I'd like to make a suggestion as follows:

Ask for donations/voluntary subs from those who really can afford to help (of which there are many), and keep the forum free access to those who truly cannot afford to pay, to still be able to fully participate...

I know £5 per month might not be much for many, but for others it is .. this is not a sum they have spare each month.. no matter how invaluable this forum is for most people, it would still be classed as non-essential for those who do not have much...

Personally, if I had to pay to access, I'd have to decline.. not simply from personal circumstances, but also because I know that £5 per month can help a lot of truly desperate people in this world...

Much as I like and would miss this valuable place, with a spare £5 I'd rather help put some food or clean water into a truly poor person's belly each month... or actively DO something to help the Billions on Earth who don't have the bare essentials for life... let alone luxury of being able to access the internet or chat forums ...

Blessings

[tom]

I suppose i could give up my irish pork link's we all have to make sacrifices.

[TAXMASTER]

I think it would be a good idea to have a donate now button tied to paypal and those that receive value will want to pay for it. hopefully that will pay the bills. if it doesn't then there is always plan 2.

Namaste'

[sammytray]

Build it and they will come!

How about invoking the laws of attraction...

If I were to "ask" for the finances to help humanity, would the finances be there by simply "seeing" the expenses of running this forum/site PAID?

I would pay $5/month for "awakening" as many as possible. Yes I would, I would attract the money to do so.

I would state "if this forum still has more to offer, than the finances will be available" The cost of as many as possible acting as one strong consciousness to help bring in the New paradigm?????? PRICELESS

Ask ye shall receive!:thumb_yello:

[Baggywrinkle]

i'm done ranting.

Is that a promise?

Yes I am very serious.

Set your sense of entitlement aside and pay it forward if you cannot pay it
back. As I have done here for you throughout this forum casting pearls. There never was and never will be a free lunch. What
you learn here may save lives in the future in real time.

[Swanny]

Baggy you need to learn about Karma, that will save your future lives :original:

[zorgon]

There never was and never will be a free lunch.

It's obvious to me you have never been to Vegas :tongue2:



What you learn here may save lives in the future in real time.

So I should pay for that? Since I am one of those 'teaching' why should I pay to try to wake you up?

Heck even the Red Cross and St Johns Ambulance give FREE lessons and info on how to save lives...

[Orion Morris]

It's obvious to me you have never been to Vegas :tongue2:




So I should pay for that? Since I am one of those 'teaching' why should I pay to try to wake you up?

Heck even the Red Cross and St Johns Ambulance give FREE lessons and info on how to save lives...

I value your opinion Zorgon... but we are teaching eachother. You are not any better than the most offensive or un enlightened member on the fourm...

I agree though... None of us should pay for it

[whitecrow]

I...a while ago, Carol did request to all if the members would like to be a Mod. Whitecrow if you do know or not, the Mods on Avalon-Camelot use their free time to be on here. They do it because they want to, they do not get paid to be here, they pay with their free time to deal with the members.

Of course I know the mods are unpaid. Duh. And yes, I saw the request and I did offer. No one got back to me. And there's no beef! I neither need nor especially want to be a mod...was just offering to help out.

I don't have oodles of free time. I come here every day because I think we are discussing important subjects (mostly). I come here every day because I believe I can contribute. If what the owners want is money instead of my intellectual contributions they're out of luck because I don't have any.

I'm thinking this thread reveals the true intent of the owners.

[zorgon]

So that you still have access to critical information. .

What 'critical' information is that? Most of what is here is taken from hundreds of websites and the rest is purely speculation and hearsay.

Was the GFL ship 'critical' information? What about the non occurring Oct 7th meltdown?

The information brought here is donated for FREE by the members... then sold without a royalty? Hmmm don't we have copy right laws precisely to prevent this?

If I spend hours and weeks researching material and present it to share for FREE, why would I be happy that someone else is now getting paid for my work?

Donations, merchandise and ads... perfectly valid to raise the miniscule money needed to run a forum... in fact if done right you can get rich on it. Some forums have admins that make their living at it :tongue2:

Plane fare, hotel rooms and an expense account? Thats what sponsors are for..

[herbivore]

i think you have the answer you were looking for, baggy.

[zorgon]

You are not any better than the most offensive or un enlightened member on the fourm...

Quite true... you mistook my intent I DID say "one of those" and 'teaching' was in the quotes :tongue2:

Now I gotta run and earn some of that money everyone is talking about

TTFN

[Shellie]

It seems people are confused about the nature of non-profit and for-profit. PA and PC cost money to run. The mods aren't making any money and I doubt Bill and Kerry and setting anything aside for retirement. Anyway, check out the cost of gas, hotels and plane tickets back and forth between Arizona and Vegas and Australia and Russia and the rest of Europe, and you'll get an idea of what kind of money it takes to bring us the videos they let us see.

I am only sad I am stretched so thin. Otherwise I would gladly give a handsome chunk each month.

[Baggywrinkle]

"Alpha Strategy: 1. the first plan for an individual to protect his wealth. 2. the best plan for protecting the basic savings of any individual during times of monetary turmoil."

THIS is what you're preaching on this forums about, in defense to no one wanting to pay your fee?!

first of all, we're all in a time of monetary turmoil right now. period.

secondly, are we not trying to rid ourselves and the earth of monetary and material baggage? that's not being the change you want to see.

thirdly, i myself am very surpised to have seen an avalon researcher like you act like this. you're supposed to be what the groundcrew looks up to in their time of need. instead you're asking for money for the work you VOLUNTARILY started in the first place.

:mfr_omg:

You are welcome
(ethics 101)

[herbivore]

You are welcome
(ethics 101)

i'm keeping this very light here, but don't take it lightly: i don't approve of you. :thumbdown:

i imagine my peers could sympathize with me.

[Baggywrinkle]

i'm keeping this very light here, but don't take it lightly: i don't approve of you. :thumbdown:

i imagine my peers could sympathize with me.

Now now, don't get your knickers in a twist.

I like you just fine. Even if you are wrong on this one.

[raulduke]

Approx $5/month is all this forum is costing to run. Bill told me that himself.
Peddling fear is a BIG money business it seems.

Simon,

Former mod simon?

You sound the same.

If you are the former mod, then welcome back.:original: And I have a few questions for you.

Do you mind if I pm you?

[David]

The cost to run a forum is no big secret. :mfr_omg:

Most people here have full time jobs so they can buy food and put a roof over their head. Project Camelot is a full time job in it's self and unless your incredibly rich, your going to need funding at some point or it ends.

my $.02 worth

[Suriel]

Thanks for your participation in this poll. Your comments and results of the poll will be taken in consideration by the mod team and the admin.

Peace,
Kevin

[John aka#404]

The following is a response from Bill and Kerry:

We've read all responses with genuine interest and will respond fully - but no time now as we are at the Crash Retrieval Conference.

We understand all the points of view and respect them fully. We're not at all decided how best to proceed. The problem we're trying to solve is basically how to fund Camelot... Avalon costs almost nothing to host. Advertising never, donations yes, merchandising maybe (good idea), maybe some clever way of offering a subscription without locking people out.

Suggestions are all welcome. The problem (basically) is that we are running out of money and we have to find some way of keeping afloat. Lots of people do not realize that we sell nothing, have no independent financial support, and have gone way out on very thin ice in order to do our work, all of which has been made available for free.

Camelot will always remain free - because no-one can own this important information, that belongs to all of humanity. That is our firm position re Camelot and will never change.

We will respond in full within a few days. Respect and thanks to everyone for all opinions, viewpoints and ideas.

- Bill and Kerry
--------------------

*as the messenger, I trust everybody understands I will be unable to answer any questions on the above. :)
Take care and thank you all for your suggestions on this matter.
.

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

i think a small fee for running costs is relevant to ghe situation if we can pay it.. i mean people forget this work will be under intense scrutiny and atack soon.. so what are tey to do.. if it comes to it id rather see avalon go down than loose camelot.. the videos are more important than this forum imo.. if it goes it has served its major purpose of getting ground crews together.. most of the important info has laready been passed between people.. CAMELOT must continue..!!!!! 90% of avalon is just a talking shop for theorys and spirituality.

avalon should be about what news is coming and how we can help each other with it.. the site started of as hardcore spiritual and physical survival based knowedge and has now watered down.. maybe its because nothing major has happened yet.. if for one will pay my years subscription!! :) keep it running until the end of the internet

[Vanlom]

what if the cost of the subscription was ridiculously low like 1 month for $.50? charged annually for a grand total of what you paid for breakfast. $6 x 3k active members, is that enough?!

[Simon]

So am i to understand that subscriptions paid to Avalon, for Avalon, will be used to pay for Camelot research? If this is the case, then it is apparent that the donations made to Camelot are all of a sudden insufficient? If members are paying for a subscription to Avalon, then Avalon is where the money should be spent.
This also brings me to a question about how the money would be spent at Avalon. After the small hosting fee is paid, what will happen to the remainder of the funds?
A further question regarding information posted at Avalon - Who owns this info once it has been posted? According to Bill, the original poster no longer owns the information once posted, so who does? Surely the official owner of the info posted by members, is the only person who can charge people to view this info.

I would also like to know who has been deleting my posts, and why? I have had no explanation as yet, and to the best of my knowledge, i have only posted truthful facts.

[Jenny]

Hi Simon,

we are discussing all these questions in the mod area.
Bill and Kerry engage with all these questions there and in this thread.

No decisions taken as of yet.

I don't know who is deleting your posts. I honestly don't.

But is is not nice what you are doing.
I am sorry to see you do this.

Hug,
Jenny

[Simon]

And what is it i am doing exactly Jenny?

Hi Simon,

we are discussing all these questions in the mod area.
Bill and Kerry engage with all these questions there and in this thread.

No decisions taken as of yet.

I don't know who is deleting your posts. I honestly don't.

But is is not nice what you are doing.
I am sorry to see you do this.

Hug,
Jenny

[historycircus]

I just had an opportunity to read Bill and Kerry's response, and reread some of the solution posts.

I know they said "advertising, never," but I think that there is a responsible way to go about that. Consider survival products, green housing - heck, anything green can be advertised in good conscious (and could net big-time companies - not all companies are part of the problem), etc. You could consider social movement sources - ads from Greenpeace, or other socially concious groups. To a certain extent, the old phrase "buyer beware" is legit - it is the consumer's responsibility to do their homework.

Just some thoughts, and hope it helps.

[OrganicFarmhand]

I would be forced to leave. I have been somewhat off the grid for a while, other than electricity and internet (no gas all electric heat and I use mostly purified rain water for drinking, cooking and gardening) I have no credit card or bank account to forward any type of funds I would have to pay in person!:tears:

[raegpoort]

How about someone take a "Hit for the team" and get a sugar DADDY!!!:smoke:

That's a great way to fund the cause....

[voltron]

It is a matter of how much? I subscribe to Coast to Coast AM. I think it is something like $5.95 per month. I also subscribe to Rense.com for about the same amount. In the past I have also subscribed to Whitley Strieber's unknowncountry.com I objected at first because I wanted everything ot be free. But later I missed the archieves. I would gladly pay $5.00 per month to listen to the Project Camelot archieves.

[Baggywrinkle]

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

If you have found value at Avalon you are indebted and it
is your obligation to repay the debt in a fair energy exchange with money, knowledge or labor.

How might this energy exchange be utilized to benefit not
only Avalon, but the ground crew and the rest of the world?

Pay it forward.

PAY IT FORWARD - ASSIGNMENT TO SAVE THE WORLD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGcwG-2owow

Pay it forward the trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwHcS-XoYbc

Just Pay It Forward the power of three
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6445959677552968819

[historycircus]

It is a matter of how much? I subscribe to Coast to Coast AM. I think it is something like $5.95 per month. I also subscribe to Rense.com for about the same amount. In the past I have also subscribed to Whitley Strieber's unknowncountry.com I objected at first because I wanted everything ot be free. But later I missed the archieves. I would gladly pay $5.00 per month to listen to the Project Camelot archieves.

Yeah, I miss my streamlink. I couldn't afford it anymore. For real, it sounds lame, but I budget down to the penny sometimes - If I want to listen to coast to coast, I have to stay up late and listen to it.

Wait a minute, its on right now in my time zone - I can listen for free . . .

[Gale]

So am i to understand that subscriptions paid to Avalon, for Avalon, will be used to pay for Camelot research? If this is the case, then it is apparent that the donations made to Camelot are all of a sudden insufficient? If members are paying for a subscription to Avalon, then Avalon is where the money should be spent.
This also brings me to a question about how the money would be spent at Avalon. After the small hosting fee is paid, what will happen to the remainder of the funds?
A further question regarding information posted at Avalon - Who owns this info once it has been posted? According to Bill, the original poster no longer owns the information once posted, so who does? Surely the official owner of the info posted by members, is the only person who can charge people to view this info.

I would also like to know who has been deleting my posts, and why? I have had no explanation as yet, and to the best of my knowledge, i have only posted truthful facts.

Simon, you are not going to get your questions answered.
This project is no longer about truth. It has been infiltrated and over run. Just look at the moderating Carol and her minions do and to who.

[dutchie]

Hi Simon,

we are discussing all these questions in the mod area.
Bill and Kerry engage with all these questions there and in this thread.

No decisions taken as of yet.

I don't know who is deleting your posts. I honestly don't.

But is is not nice what you are doing.
I am sorry to see you do this.

Hug,
Jenny

ahhhhhhhhhhhh there is a secret place for all you mods to go and talk with Bill and Kerry hmmmmmmm I thought the Iron curtain was torn down long agolong :sneaky2:ago!:sneaky2::sneaky2:

[macleodmunro]

After reading a good number of posts on this thread it looks pretty obvious that a subscription for all members could spell disaster for the forum.

There would be a mass exodus and those who are left would be paying for a forum that is a shadow of it's former self.

It would also be discriminating against those on a tight budget.

It would put off potential new members. etc, etc.

Clearly Camelot needs funds to continue, but this isn't the answer.
Maybe members who have got a bit of spare cash can help out more.
I for one have never donated to Camelot, but i will now that i've been made more aware of their need for funds.

I want to help because i want their good work continue.

Not because someone who gets their name in green is putting me on a guilt trip.

[scrufficus]

If you guys need money for continuing, why not put a dvd collection together or some other smart person out there that has all the equipment to do that for a small fee could, so as all of us who come here can buy a homogenized version of your material. Then we can then spread it around our friends and family so they can have a look instead of giving 10 thousand email links and annoying them with stuff they think you are mad to be looking at in the first place.just an idea but a fee to come here sounds like a thing nwo are gonna start trying to phase in to get internet 2 up and running so out of principle i'd urge every1 not to pay for anything on the net.sorry. I think camelot comes to dvd is the best way to go.nothing fancy just the info on discs, I'd probably give you 60 or 70 quid for it all, so would every1 else i'm sure

[Scooby]

Simon, you are not going to get your questions answered.
This project is no longer about truth. It has been infiltrated and over run. Just look at the moderating Carol and her minions do and to who.

I see that gale has been banned. Im wondering if its because she spoke her mind?

[Kris Riley]

If you guys need money for continuing, why not put a dvd collection together or some other smart person out there that has all the equipment to do that for a small fee could, so as all of us who come here can buy a homogenized version of your material.

If I was to donate my time authoring the dvds, which is something I do for work. The replicating of 200 dvds with cases and labels would cost about 1500 dollars (possibly less) and it would be decent enough to sell. You might make twice as much as you payed for duplicating and printing off sales. Also the place I work for can also do the sales and mailings of dvds to people and pay the royalties to Bill & Kerry. It's all about what you would want to spend.

I was thinking that if things stayed the way they are, there could be a donation drive periodically, sort of like public radio. I think that people who have the funds to contribute would do so and those wanting a dvd would also contribute. Maybe there could be levels of donating. A minumum donation would add you to a list of contributors that would be available to view by members. Just so there could be an idea of how much is being given. Even if it was 5 dollars that would be fair enough to start with and anything past 20 dollars would be eligible for a dvd or maybe a t-shirt with a simple cool logo. That is what I think would work. Making it a mandatory subsciption fee would probably not work.

My girlfriend Venus also suggested something that would maybe be an option. "If you donate 5 dollars you will recieve the privelage of posting your own avatar and pictures." Possibly videos and music if you donate even more, was what I just thought of, off of her thoughts. I think there are ways for making this site profitable with little to no impact to those seeking information.

[Mercuriel]

Maybe members who have got a bit of spare cash can help out more.

Sheesh - I PM'ed Bill offering to pay for One Full Year here for all of Us and I've yet to receive a reply...

Maybe if You Guys pester Him about My offer - He'll take Me up on it and have the decency to reply to Me. I know Hes busy but a week later and still no answer. Not even a No TY - Nothing...

Hmmm...

[Bill Ryan]

Sheesh - I PM'ed Bill offering to pay for One Full Year here for all of Us and I've yet to receive a reply...

Maybe if You Guys pester Him about My offer - He'll take Me up on it and have the decency to reply to Me. I know Hes busy but a week later and still no answer. Not even a No TY - Nothing...

Hmmm...

Hi, Mercuriel:

Many thanks. We very much appreciate the offer. As you probably know, we left for a UFO Conference (http://ufoconference.com/speaker-topics) last Thursday, and have just returned last night. I personally am a couple of hundred PMs behind and have not yet seen or read your message. We were not ignoring you, and we do thank you for contacting us.

Your offer seems very generous... but we're not sure exactly what you were proposing.

The costs of running the site itself are nominal: a few hundred dollars a year at the most, with all conceivable extras. The original subscription idea, described here (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=306) when we first launched the site, was for $30 per year with the forum fully accessible but read-only for non-members.

At the time most, people thought that pretty reasonable. We thought that maybe a thousand members might pay that, giving us an income, supplemented by Camelot donations, that would just about enable us to remain viable.

After this I'll post some more about the problems we're trying to solve, and the solutions we're considering. As I explained above, we're not trying to exploit anyone - this is hardly our style! - and our whole ethos is about providing information for the world that no-one can be said to own. But if we don't find a creative way of remaining viable, all our work may be forced to cease.

Very best wishes, Bill

[Bill Ryan]

So am i to understand that subscriptions paid to Avalon, for Avalon, will be used to pay for Camelot research?
Yes. The two are different divisions (for lack of a better word) of the same enterprise.

If this is the case, then it is apparent that the donations made to Camelot are all of a sudden insufficient?

Correct: they're all very much appreciated - every one, from anyone, of any amount - but when added up together they're not enough. IF we had a very wealthy donor or two (for instance), then we would be happy to make Avalon free as well. We're not trying to get rich here... we're trying to keep going.

If members are paying for a subscription to Avalon, then Avalon is where the money should be spent.

No, because without Camelot there would be no Avalon. The two are inextricably linked.

This also brings me to a question about how the money would be spent at Avalon. After the small hosting fee is paid, what will happen to the remainder of the funds?

It funds Camelot videos and research.

A further question regarding information posted at Avalon - Who owns this info once it has been posted? According to Bill, the original poster no longer owns the information once posted, so who does? Surely the official owner of the info posted by members, is the only person who can charge people to view this info.

Did I say that? I don't remember ever doing so, and it doesn't sound like anything I would have said. I have no interest in that way of thinking... it's not about ownership of anything - or insisting that anyone does NOT own anything. I don't think in terms of ownership at all, as those who know me well will testify.

I would also like to know who has been deleting my posts, and why? I have had no explanation as yet, and to the best of my knowledge, i have only posted truthful facts.

I've not had the time to follow your posts in any detail, and have not deleted any of them.

Very best wishes, Bill

[Bill Ryan]

It seems people are confused about the nature of non-profit and for-profit. PA and PC cost money to run. The mods aren't making any money and I doubt Bill and Kerry and setting anything aside for retirement. Anyway, check out the cost of gas, hotels and plane tickets back and forth between Arizona and Vegas and Australia and Russia and the rest of Europe, and you'll get an idea of what kind of money it takes to bring us the videos they let us see.

I am only sad I am stretched so thin. Otherwise I would gladly give a handsome chunk each month.

Thanks, Shellie: this is the most concise statement so far of the problem.

Very best, Bill

[jaby]

Sheesh - I PM'ed Bill offering to pay for One Full Year here for all of Us
..

Cheers, mate.....:thumb_yello:

[orb]

It's no more than $65 a month for a dedicated server, and $200 a year for Vbulletin, Totalling $980 a year.

Put up a paypal link, and ask everyone to put up a donation. With 69,000 subscribers, if you get a 1 in 300 payment of $5, then you will get $1150 per year enough to cover costs. If you get 5 in 100 at $5 it is 17,500.

If you require a good hosting service for a dedicated server and any help to move it over, let me know, I can do it for free.

Edited:
The issue with the subscription is that alot of people who need the information the most do not have credit cards, for example I use a prepaid mastercard linked to my paypal, but it can be a hassle to get money on it. Not everyone has credit setups. Paypal can go against a bank account, however a monthly subscription might catch a poor person at a time the have no money in an account then costing a NSF charge. So a one off donation would allow them to maybe put $10 in their account and let paypal clear it.

[Bill Ryan]

If I was to donate my time authoring the dvds, which is something I do for work. The replicating of 200 dvds with cases and labels would cost about 1500 dollars (possibly less) and it would be decent enough to sell. You might make twice as much as you payed for duplicating and printing off sales. Also the place I work for can also do the sales and mailings of dvds to people and pay the royalties to Bill & Kerry. It's all about what you would want to spend.

Thanks, Kris - this is much appreciated.

Clearly it's a good idea. There would need to be a third-party system in place, and the same goes for merchandising and other similar 'added value' ideas. But this has to be possible to set up.

John aka#404 summarized our position well on the previous page. Here it is again - with some further added thoughts as Kerry and I debate this further:

We understand all the points of view and respect them fully. We're not at all decided how best to proceed. The problem we're trying to solve is basically how to fund Camelot... Avalon costs almost nothing to host compared with the running costs of the entire Camelot enterprise.

The problem is that we're running out of money and we have to find some way of keeping afloat. Lots of people do not realize that we sell nothing, have no independent financial support, and have gone way out on very thin ice in order to do our work, all of which has been made available for free.

Camelot's research will always remain free - because no-one can own this important information, that belongs to all of humanity. That is our firm position re Camelot and will never change.

Various solutions considered:

Advertising: never.

Merchandising: yes, good idea, if everything can be handled by a third party.

DVDs/CDs: all of our videos, transcripts and audios so far would fit on maybe 10 CDs, which could be sold as a set for about $90. It sure saves a LOT of downloading... and at less than $1 per hour for watching (and keeping) this material and all it contains, has to be pretty good value.

DVDs are a slightly different (higher quality) product... maybe of our most popular videos. If we sold separate DVDs of each interview, it'd be quite a catalog - and some items might not be as popular as others.

Donate buttons: they're at the foot of all our pages, on both sites, except the forum itself. We could add them to the forum pages... but it might be a bit of a coding challenge as the forum template software is not easy to amend. Prompts that we really appreciate donations (and are dependent on them!) do make a difference, and we do fully take that point.

The Book of Camelot: we have someone who's promised they will publish anything we write... but, actually, self-publishing might be a better way to go (or simply creating an online e-book). We do have a lot to write about, and all we need is the time.

Subscriptions:

* If we charged a nominal fee for membership, the forum would always remain accessible on a read-only basis to all visitors. We'd never once considered anything different.

* Having read all comments and suggestions, we're now thinking of an extremely modest $1 per month subscription - with the option, when registering, of choosing to add-on a regular, small voluntary monthly donation.

* We're also considering ways in which members could sponsor other nominated members. (Those with a genuinely tight budget, or with no bank accounts, might somehow flag a request for support in their member profile. No shame, just practicalities that we understand.) We welcome feedback.

We think that we we implemented all of the above, it would all work and Camelot's mission could continue. We can't really know until we do it.

I'd like to state again that we fully and respect understand all members' views on this and the other thread (http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=306), and the very helpful way that all these views have been expressed. We're not in any way trying to lock anyone out: but we have no other sources of funding, and we're totally reliant on some system - now outlined above - which is at once a fair response for our work and continues to make all the information available.

Very best wishes to all, Bill

[nibiru]

1) a genuine truth seeker will always seek anywhere he/she can find pieces of the puzzle to establish his/her own version of the truth...the law of attraction also works for he/she/them that profoundly and deeply in their hearts search for the real thing...when the pupil is ready the master will appear in his/her life-path...
2) there is an universal law that can be described as : Service to others-service to self... There has to be an equilibrium between both...even at sunday´s church the dish is passed to support the cause...
3) it may be that this splendid door to information might be closed for many who won´t afford it...thus making proyect avalon´s and camelot´s principal mission unavailable to many and therefore will not fulfill their cosmic task...
4) if there is a task to be fulfilled, the universe itself will load proyect avalon and camelot with the necessary abundance to fulfill...the universe itself will take care by connecting bill and kerry with the right people to gather funds for the development of both proyects ....and fulfill....
4) we are all cocreator god/godesses and we all cocreate our own reality...always remember that please....if we as a whole benefit from this site i don´t see the problem in helping finance pa and pc.... Like little ants we all can give away in response and gratitude towards the people involved in serving us in such a great way....helping us in aquiring awareness and the big picture of what is going on in this planetary school...

[nibiru]

I´m in...

[Suriel]

Bill,

IMO, DVDs in high definition would be a great way to make money for Camelot. DVD Roms can hold up to 4gb of info. Most new computers support DVD rom drives.
There is also a free windows media encoder (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/forpros/encoder/default.mspx) that you download for free from Microsoft that will convert all of your video to High Definition.

DVD Roms can be purchased at any department store such as wal-mart, target, best buy, or radio shack.

Peace,
Suriel aka Kevin

[nibiru]

hi,

experience tells me that things go wrong when money gets involved.
I am sure costs are there and real, it will be difficult however to spread it equally over all members (there are so many).

Maybe i am too optimistic about this but ...
How about posting which costs are there to cover and let members decide freely to donate to see for themselves their
responsibility to keep this operation going ?

So show which amount is short for which date, or which extension is required and leave members responsible to meet
the resulting financial requirements.

Cheers

good idea !

[Dantheman62]

You are the man!!!, or woman!!!Mercuriel :thumb_yello::winner_third_h4h::groupwave::jawdrop ::cheers::welcomeani:

[orb]

Oh $12 a year is not bad. Also you could allow people to upload their own avitar if they pay, and use a canned avitar is they have not paid. And maybe have a $75 a year option where they get a great fancy cool t**** or something.


* Having read all comments and suggestions, we're now thinking of an extremely modest $1 per month subscription - with the option, when registering, of choosing to add-on a regular, small voluntary monthly donation.

[Mercuriel]

Hi, Mercuriel: Your offer seems very generous... but we're not sure exactly what you were proposing.

Ask and Ye shall receive...

I was drawn here, and for a reason. I didn't know what reason when I came here but I AM sure it was to help out in whatever way I could...

:thumb_yello:

That said - Here I AM to help. Tell Me what You need Bill / Kerry and We'll iron it out to Your satisfaction...

Please PM Me and We'll get the ball rolling or You can reply here and I will read the Posts as They come in...

This will not be the first or last time I've put the White Hat on. It is after all - What I've Incarnated here to do - Help out in whatever way I AM able to...

:wink2:

[Relin]

"It seems people are confused about the nature of non-profit and for-profit. PA and PC cost money to run. The mods aren't making any money and I doubt Bill and Kerry and setting anything aside for retirement. Anyway, check out the cost of gas, hotels and plane tickets back and forth between Arizona and Vegas and Australia and Russia and the rest of Europe, and you'll get an idea of what kind of money it takes to bring us the videos they let us see."

Did anyone put a gun to your head and tell you that you had to do this project. I enjoy doing many things that take up my time and effort, but you dont see me crying poor and asking people to support me in my hobbies.

Only people who don't plan or invest wisely would be having financial problems. I've always been sceptical about the ultimate goals of PC. In my opinion it's nothing more than another income stream for the Bill and Kerry retirement fund... PC is all hype and no substance.. :wall:

If you're both strapped for cash why don't you do what the majority of humanity does - work for a living.

[Carol]

Relin, I'm somewhat surprised at your unkind comments directed to the owners of this forum as you are their guest and here at their expense. To imply that they do not work for a living is a bit harsh considering that the Pulic Service work that they have been doing for the past several years has been at their own expense so that they could provide a variety of informational topics to the public for free. They are humanitarians, who have given everythng that they have (time, energy, personal resources), or own (all of the interviews, websites and now forums) to others so as to benefit thoses whom come in contact with them. The information and data they are providing has been for years free-of-charge. Your comments are mean-spirited and do not belong here.

To ask for a subscribtion to help cover out-of-pocket expense so as to continue this work is more then reasonable. The on-going belly-aching is not. Both the Project Camelot website and a major portion of the Project Camelot/Avalon forums will remain freely available to those who are members here.

Subscription to a new sub-forum is being explored and may be the way the forums' owners decide to go in. Much of this is still to be determined. Please be patient and exhibit the type of respect that the forum owners have extended to you.

[Dean Plejaren]

you are their guest and here at their expense

Carol I find this a bit odd you saying supporters are expense. First if you think about this properly without 'guests' they would have no site at all. Viewer sponsorship can easily cover running costs. Everyone knows that. You can even make money from it. It isn't expense. Second it's true they work for a living, and it's doing this. You do realize they get paid every time they do a conference they are not running around doing all this for free. Where would they get their money for the time to do this thin air? No this is their work. It's definitely a business. If it was non profit where is the budget to prove what has happened? No budget publically avaliable it's a business. I have herd they are running out of money but I wonder where did they get the money they were running out of was it inheritance?

To ask for a subscription is verification we know it's a business. Non profit never charges users. You actually can't say it's non profit and then charge it's a blatant contradiction.

Like Relin mentioned if they are going broke from the organization because it's costing them too much than they are earning from their living. Then it is a case of poor planning that's correct. If not just admit it's a business and what they do for a living. Nothing wrong with providing a service this way. Yet if you claim it's non profit when it's a business then yeah that becomes dishonesty.

Lets not kid ourself.

[Baggywrinkle]

Non profit never charges users.



Perhaps you would prefer a
PBS style beg-fest replacing access periodically. The logical time to do that is when they release a new
interview. Twenty minutes of begging (get on the phones! as Gene Scott used to say) to ten minutes
of interview. They could even throw in a coffee cup at the five hundred dollar level.

I beg to differ with you regarding nonprofit 501C3 organizations. They do indeed charge with all monies
being turned back into the organization for the benefit of patrons. Run down and try to watch a nonprofit
community theater production. It's going to cost you. Especially if it is a class act. That doesn't even include the fund raisers.

[Dean Plejaren]

Ok I admit I don't know if it's a business or where any of the money is coming or going. But I do know my definition of non-profit which is something that people never have to pay for. That would be my idea of non-profit keeping it free. To be fair I know non-profit can mean for some equaling out a business to the degree it makes no extra money. But this is not non-profit to me. I see it as total sacrifice while keeping things free. You have to make money and that would be a separate thing. As long as you give out more than you charge people are willing to support the value of it I guess this is all a matter of balance.

[piers2210]

I agree 100% with what Hopeful says above....

if the Forum needs funds, then have a VOLUNTARY subscription for those who can afford it...you know who you are (which includes me!)

Thanks to all who post links and wonderful info which helps people like me become aware... love and light to all

[piers2210]

PS Hopeful's comments were on Page 1 of the Thread...

[zorgon]

CD/DVD

100 for 179.00

Mixonic
http://www.mixonic.com/mcm/mixonic/index.jsp

Includes:
• CD duplication
• Black disc printing
• Full color 2-panel insert
• Thin jewel case

Minimum order is 100, upload your data and cover art to their system ships in 3 days

And as I posted before for latecomers

globat.com

166.00 for TWO years 5 terabytes storage and transfer, 5 domains hosted on one account

Tell em both livingmoon sent ya :tongue2:

Now stop whining about money :smoke:

[LadyShankari]

Last time i was here i saw a post about how many people send them money all the time. they travel all the time, i wish i could travel all around, poor things such a ruff life. the cost on the site seems measly. ive seen them video out of what appeared to be thier house or where they were at least staying, it looked like a mansion on the water. im sure traveling all over the world constantly is expensive. or maybe they see this to get rid of people, as so many have recently got on here. so no ill not pay,ssems a ridiculous idea really. They obvioulsy have money as they have been traveling all around all the time, or at least that what i thought. not the average peopson out there can afford it. gee when was the last time i went somewhere, as probolbaly most of us are home on puter , and cant afford to go anywhere, let alone travel the world. yes a agree it is good work, but they were already traveling all around before this.

[whitecrow]

They obvioulsy have money as they have been traveling all around all the time...most of us are home on puter , and cant afford to go anywhere, let alone travel the world. yes a agree it is good work, but they were already traveling all around before this.

And there you have it, the other horn of the dilemma. I think that some kind of scheme to raise funds to support the work is a great idea. I'm not against some advertising, merchandising, whatever it may take to keep the site up and running. I have made it clear that I do not think it's right to charge for a forum like this, and that because I think that would be the WRONG way to fund this, I would leave. Also because like LadyShankari, I'm barely getting by. For me, luxury is a pizza, not a trip to Australia.

Last but not least, the law of the market applies. If the work fills a need, it will survive and prosper. If it doesn't, it won't. I won't pay for something I can get for free elsewhere, number one. Number two, I have some worthwhile things of my own to say - it's not necessary for me to buy people to have conversations with.

There are legions of reasons not to use money to constrain the flow of ideas. On the other hand, if you were to charge a li'l ole fee each time a video was watched, would that be constraining or facilitating the flow? I don't watch 'em, so I need others' input on this. Seems to me that would bring in some money but still leave the forums open for conversatin'.

[Bill Ryan]

Now stop whining about money

We're not.

We're being transparent about how we're thinking. When a member has not understood our circumstances (see below for an example), we've explained.

This is a consultative thread. The responses have been very helpful and are all appreciated - Ron, including your very good info about DVD replication costs.

ive seen them video out of what appeared to be thier house or where they were at least staying, it looked like a mansion on the water.

That was Michael St.Clair's hotel room!

Very best, Bill

[pineal-pilot-in merkabah]

"It seems people are confused about the nature of non-profit and for-profit. PA and PC cost money to run. The mods aren't making any money and I doubt Bill and Kerry and setting anything aside for retirement. Anyway, check out the cost of gas, hotels and plane tickets back and forth between Arizona and Vegas and Australia and Russia and the rest of Europe, and you'll get an idea of what kind of money it takes to bring us the videos they let us see."

Did anyone put a gun to your head and tell you that you had to do this project. I enjoy doing many things that take up my time and effort, but you dont see me crying poor and asking people to support me in my hobbies.

Only people who don't plan or invest wisely would be having financial problems. I've always been sceptical about the ultimate goals of PC. In my opinion it's nothing more than another income stream for the Bill and Kerry retirement fund... PC is all hype and no substance.. :wall:

If you're both strapped for cash why don't you do what the majority of humanity does - work for a living.insta ban this troll moron:lightsabre: also lol @ retiring.. what planet are you on shmuck.. what aare you doing here?? expecting life to carry on as normal ?? we dont need your sort on here ty. :nono:

[dreb13]

.
* Having read all comments and suggestions, we're now thinking of an extremely modest $1 per month subscription - with the option, when registering, of choosing to add-on a regular, small voluntary monthly donation.


2,709 active members as of 11/17/08
2709 * $1 a month = $2,709 a month.
$2,709 a month * 12 months = $32,508 a year

A buck a month sounds like it could go a long way....imagine $2 bucks :thumb_yello:

[Swanny]

Can we wait until the $ crashes before we pay??? :naughty:

[Dean Plejaren]

2,709 active members as of 11/17/08
2709 * $1 a month = $2,709 a month.
$2,709 a month * 12 months = $32,508 a year

That's assuming everyone subscribes. Take away my dollar..

[deepblu777]

WANTED: Job that pays me more than the $26.32 a day. I work for the school system and that's what I make...unless school is closed,
then I make -0-.

I feel for everyone trying to get by, these guys are doing a great job and I sure don't expect them to do it for free, either.

All my best wishes for us all...I'll still check in to read and look for new links to info. I will appreciate that, VERY MUCH!

I won't be able to thank you again or offer up any thoughts but I still have my own energy to put out there, so that will have to do.

Been nice communicating!

Love to all the Folks!

:smoke:

[Deathstar]

Why does it always come down to the money, it's so sad. I hope PC and PA don't become like other sites with paid subscriptions. The information needs to be out for free to everyone......! I've they want change a paid subscription isn't the solution, most people will leave and find an other free places to exchange free information.

I understand it from a cost based picture but if you can't afford it close it, simple!

Peace.

[Dean Plejaren]

Why does it always come down to the money

Because of mindcontrol..........

With me or anyone I co-operate with it doesn't. People come first. Anything else is secondary. Empowerment of the individual first through collective co-operation.

[dreb13]

That's assuming everyone subscribes. Take away my dollar..

I chose "active members" in that figure and not "members" assuming that most of the active members would chip in a buck a month.

There are 5,327 "members" listed as of 11/18/08 and I assume that most of them will not pay a fee to post on the forum.

[iainl140285]

All the info will remain 100% free from my understanding.
Anybody can view - no different from what it is now.

The only slightly backward thing is - if you have information or wish to express your opinion/ideas YOU will have to pay get it out there! :mfr_lol: Weird.
So, do you feel your info. good valuable enough to share?



Peace
Iain

[yikes!]

I think I can swing a $1, count me in for that during these hard times.

[ADAM KADMON]

Bill Ryan,

I have written you a PM suggesting more profitable alternatives rather than converting the forum to a paid subscription. I hope you will find time to read my message and respond, I think it would benefit everyone here and allow us to keep this forum for free which I think is ideal for everyone involved.

Since I've been doing internet marketing for the better part of 10 years, I know from personal experience subscription based forums, while appealing to the owner, does not appeal to many others. And the "fall out" of people would be great. If you have 2,700 members now, and 1/2 of them are active, you can count on only 20-30% of those active users sticking around once it's being switched to a paid model. Further, merchant accounts and automatic rebilling software and interfaces have a monthly operating cost. Finally, the fall out of peoples credit cards expiring, declines, and charge backs can quickly eat up any margins profits a model like this might bring in...

Thus, I propose a solution that will your supports will respond positively too and rather than dimish your following and subscriber base, indeed raise it and be vastly more profitable. I do hope, you will find the time to respond as it addresses everyone's needs and employs a skill-set I am proud to say have made me financially well off.

Hope to hear back,
Adam K.

[Nebula]

I haven't read thru every post on this thread, so i don't know if anyone has suggested the following! if so my apologies in advance.

-how about asking for free will donations from members! whichever amount one can afford to donate!

[Karen]

I posted this to the new threads that have popped up on this subject - and I will read through the posts here to present any ideas and suggestions to Bill and Kerry and the mod team.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you cannot afford the minimal option of $1 per month, there will be other options available. Some members will gift in those who cannot pay. You could help out the project in some way. Just let us know ... post a Private Message to me or post here if you would like to find an option to stay.

The only limit is the lack of imagination to pursue solutions. We will do what is possible for those who want to stay.

For those who are leaving based on philosophical objections, without some income, Bill and Kerry will not be able to continue their work. This subscription fee is just one of many ideas, but others will take more time to implement.

Brainstorming ideas is encouraged. Please do not be disparaged.

Karen

[Rebel4Life]

hmmm will our stuff that we post get censored? I had a thread going and someone closed it down...why? Too much truth getting out there? An actual solution to the problem? I had a thread on common law going in case your wondering what it was about...

[unlimited mind]

i have not read this entire thread, but the pages i did read had many valid points concerning charging for the FORUM. the information that PC puts out into the world, has opened many doors for many people. obviously, here we all are. B&K have been doing this for free for many years. they are still not asking people to pay for the information they gather. in fact, i think in the announcement made by PC the entire forum will be able to be accessed by whomever would like to read it.

i make this point because this forum is how all of US came to meet one another. be grateful to have such outrageous companionship and the ability to connect with one another keyboard to keyboard. (and for most of us, conscious awareness of the eXchange, energy grid to energy grid)

money is energy. power is having your energy return to you from where ever you left it.

here are some of the questions i asked myself when the paid forum arrived?

has PC assisted you to discern the world with new eyes? were you able to recall your energy from belief systems that were false, and contributing to the madness of slumbering consciousness? can you sacrifice one gallon of gas a month to assist PC to continue on with their journey, and hopefully stir the pot a bit more waking up more folks? can you make a difference with a donation or fee?

we interchange energy everyday, all day long. the world is out of balance because so many people are taking, and not giving. this is not sustainable. this point should be contemplated if you are considering support or non-support for the very people that have been on a march to wake folks up from their slumber.

so the big question is, how can you support the greater shift in consciousness. who are you going to share your energy with, and what will be the experience gained from the eXchange.

i think it is more than obvious, that most of social consciousness is at the tipping point. as a group, we are all standing on the edge of a chasm waiting for someone, or something to come along a give us a nudge. well, i dare say, as a group, we might be standing there for millions of years. :mfr_lol:

the right use of knowledge is power. we must begin, as that same group, to ACT in ways that support the greater good of everyone. and we have to do this by pushing ourselves over that edge.

this is how we can shift out of the old brain ways, and the consciousness of lack that comes along with focusing on money as value or valuable. the more we resist this collapse of the old brain, the more chaos will be created. this is a powerful teaching from nature herself, and she is about to start her class. it is called LOVE and SURRENDER 101.

so remember folkies, support one another from your hearts.

:wub2::wub2::wub2::harp::harp::harp:

[Karen]

hmmm will our stuff that we post get censored?

No, there is not any censorship as far as ideas. Rude and abrasive attitudes and a few other factors caused several hundred threads to be placed in an out of view review area. We are working on reviewing and restoring them as quickly as possible. The list was notified of this, but we realize it is highly unlikely that everyone can read all the posts.

I had a thread going and someone closed it down...why?

See above. Many threads were moved to the correct topic areas, we are now putting in a place holder to direct you to the new location.

Too much truth getting out there?

No, those types of suppositions have been made more than once, but as far as I know, no thread has been closed for content. I am new to the mod team and I don't know everything yet, but I think I'm right on that one.

An actual solution to the problem? I had a thread on common law going in case your wondering what it was about...

Carol has stated several times, we can find your thread and return it to the forum as soon as possible if you ask. I'll see if I can find it for you. It was mostly a matter of logistics, too many members too fast, too many posts, and not enough moderators/moderators stepping down. We do apologize and are working on making improvements, Karen



You can send me or any mod a private message if you have more questions.

[nibiru]

Sounds good and fair...the cosmic lesson for this is : Service to self- service to others in a balanced format.
Just please, i repeat, please open up diversity in payment methods... Not all of the users have credit cards, others do not move around with debit cards and for many others paypal is unexisting in their home countries...maybe a bank account number could work as an option also...and thank you very,very much for opening this forum...
Long live for project avalon !

[Karen]

Yes, there will be other payment options, including a PO Box for Snail Mail. PM me if you want to use Snail Mail. I don't have the address now, but will get it.


Sounds good and fair...the cosmic lesson for this is : Service to self- service to others in a balanced format.
Just please, i repeat, please open up diversity in payment methods... Not all of the users have credit cards, others do not move around with debit cards and for many others paypal is unexisting in their home countries...maybe a bank account number could work as an option also...and thank you very,very much for opening this forum...
Long live for project avalon !

[MAP]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rn0bgdsCxXE

[Help Me Become]

I have to say I would not likely pay a subscription either. By charging a fee you perpetuate the exisitence of the monitory system, the very system that has brought to its knees the world as we know it. What needs to be done to keep it free. Free exchange of ideas and experience is the only way to change our world for the better

[Rebel4Life]

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=4886 there it is. Why are a selected number under review? I looked in my account any my comments made in that thread are not there no more.

[LadyShankari]

oh sorry i got my 75,000 figure from the "posts", sorry my err

[Karen]

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=4886 there it is. Why are a selected number under review? I looked in my account any my comments made in that thread are not there no more.

hi, that link you posted, it goes to a page not found. are you saying is is back out on the public forum. Can you send a link again? Are there other key words besides common law? Carol explained why threads were being moved to review in a thread here:
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7124

[Bill Ryan]

hmmm will our stuff that we post get censored? I had a thread going and someone closed it down...why? Too much truth getting out there? An actual solution to the problem? I had a thread on common law going in case your wondering what it was about...

Hi, Rebel:

Your thread almost certinly didn't get deleted. VERY few threads ever are. This is a rumor that has started and is just not true.

Some threads are MOVED (to an area where they are better categorized), and some are temporarily moved to a moderators' area for review. There's been a large backlog of these, but many have been sorted out now.

The problem has been that when a thread is bookmarked (or referenced in a blog, e.g.) then it SEEMS not to be there any more, and a rather brutal message shows up which says "You don't have permission to access this page".

It's a limitation of the vBulletin software that we cannot change that message - as best I know. It gives entirely the wrong message. It SHOULD say [something like]

"This thread has been moved to ________ . Please wait while we redirect you", or

"This thread has temporarily been moved to the moderators' area for review, and will be reposted as soon as possible."

We apologize for this limitation, and there's nothing we can do to change the messages or automatically redirect the pages. The solution is to use the Search function to find the threads (or individual posts) - you'll almost always find they're still on the forum.

Very best wisehs, Bill

[iainl140285]

Are the whistleblowers expected to pay to share their knowledge? :thumbdown: