Holographic planes vs the real thing?

[samncheese]

I was wondering if anyone has thought to look for the real aircraft that John Lear says they didn't use.

Logic would tell me that all the flights that the gov. said crashed into buildings and the pentagon and a field, existed on manafest at the airports, and if the images we saw were just holograms and not the real thing, then the aircraft in question still exist. Some of these aircraft were fairly new and made of millions of parts. Most of those parts have numbers to track them and would still be somewhere.

If John is right then there is evidence out there still flying around us. Let's look for it. It would seem a simple thing for the right person or pesons to find one peice of an airplane that is said to be distroyed, but isn't. Let;s find the proof. They probably hid it in plain sight because they thought nobody would be looking for it...

I was just wondering if anyone has looked...does anyone out there have the answer to this, I would really like to know...
Be at peace

[Callidon]

It's a lesser known fact that until the gov. agents came out and started telling people a plane had hit the pentagorn all the eyewitnesses said it was a missle or light aircraft. After the agents/media started informing people about New York, it suddenly became an airplane.

No holographic images used there, they would have been picked up by the security camera footage available on google and such.

Also, its plain as day that it was infact two planes that struck the trade centres. I forget what the video is called on youtube and can't find it at the moment but there is a current theory that one of the planes was infact a military liner, not an American Airlines jet.

Getting a holographic image to be that stable to pull off a stunt like that is a very difficult, nigh on impossible task, especially in daylight where holographics are at their weakest and are not able to pull off a "solid" appearance, i sideline in the area of holographics and know this as fact. To pull it off multiple times in all that commotion in different places is just not possible.

[Ashatav]

Icke says that the right part of the brain can see trhought this holographic plane and are awsome.


BUT the fact is that we have 2 parts in the brain.

The left part makes the homes in where we live and the bridges, etc. because we live in this world and to hava confort we must use the left part of the brain.

Or we can live with the wolves in tents in a jungle?

Chreersss

[Magamud]

Im leaning on the Holographic planes. There is some good you tube stuff on this that show alot of inconsistencies, not to mention all the missing plane parts. Anyone claiming they know what level of tech is out there and this is not possible is full of the sheeet to me. I also like the beam weapons used on the towers, everything is dust and the molten core at the bottom. When they fall its lilke a spray on the top. The beam makes sense. Just reaching my feelers into another level of the sci fi conspiracy here. Truly is a matrix. Just watching all the affect of people after the elections. This sense of hope. Just what the big boys want at the top.

www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com

Godspeed

[samncheese]

You are all missing the point. We were told what flights hit what, those flights had aircraft assigned to them. those aircraft are real, if they did not get distroyed then there is proof out there of it. If the real aircraft hit the buildings then they are distroyed, if some other means was use as aserted by John, then the aircraft still exist. This is a simple logic, Were the planes that we were told distroyed/or not? If the answer is not, then there should be proof of it out there.

[tom]

They didnt even find as much as a wing-nut, i think it was a ET thing? so do others i'ts been going on for thousands of years we are in the process of a clean-up by them according to Lou Bandi aka (sleeper).:mfr_omg:

[samncheese]

Even if a switch was done with the aircraft in question, there would be a paper trail. Numbered aircraft the doesn't exist or something. Every little thing that every airline does has a paper trail.

[feeler]

Even if a switch was done with the aircraft in question, there would be a paper trail. Numbered aircraft the doesn't exist or something. Every little thing that every airline does has a paper trail.

The paper trail associated with the "on-board passengers" was questionable/incomplete. The social security death index of the "passenger victims" was also suspect.


-feeler

[rosie]

My daughters boyfriend was working on some skyscrapers across from the twin towers when the planes hit. He and his crew are "sky walkers".
They are aboriginals from Canada who were working on the steel girders for a large skyscraper. They heard and saw the planes before they hit.

But, they cannot explain for the life of them, how those planes could take down the entire buildings. Lots of damage yes, but not total destruction.

They now believe that it was orchestrated to coincide with the planes hitting the buliding (for show), and bombs being deployed underground, for total destruction.

This is the feeling I have also.

love & peace

[1mack]

Although I am open to the possibility of many things, the theory that there were no planes is supported very weakly. Here is the website for Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a group of over 520 proffessional architects and engineers (along with 2700 supporters) who are demanding a truly independent investigation of the events of 9/11 because of much very strong evidence which indicates that explosives were used to take down WTC 1, 2, and 7.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

On this site, you can watch the presentation by one of the founding members, Richard Gage AIA, in which he highlights the inconsistencies of the "official story" and also presents evidence of explosives used. Richard Gage is speaking in London at UCL tomorrow to give his presentation to many more proffessional architects and engineers and anyone else who wants to come. You can reserve a ticket at gageinlondon.blogspot.com (£5). Show up early if you are going to come! There is going to be a huge turnout.

[feeler]

Although I am open to the possibility of many things, the theory that there were no planes is supported very weakly. Here is the website for Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a group of over 520 proffessional architects and engineers (along with 2700 supporters) who are demanding a truly independent investigation of the events of 9/11 because of much very strong evidence which indicates that explosives were used to take down WTC 1, 2, and 7.

http://www.ae911truth.org/




What proof can you point to in supporting the use of planes? None of the video I watched convinced me of real planes. The plane holes on -both- buildings were located on the computer floors, ideal locations for the black op team to rig the exterior columns with explosives to create plane-shape cutouts.



-feeler

[Marcus Knudsen]

I seen people say that they saw the plane from the street and it was NOT a comercial airliner and had no windows on it's side etc, just a short moment after it happened. severall people who said the same thing.

BUT, If they did not use the planes, what happened to all the people in the planes?? where did they go?? I have been thinking about that alot. Many families are missing family members from the planes.

[Magamud]

A lot of info from Eddie NWO hope it helps brains get elasticity.

Good Luck


Do you know of John Lear, the UFO investigator?

You should really watch his entire interview by Project Camelot (4-part and prox 4 hours), he did mention about the planes being holographic and the whole explosion was an experiment to test the readiness of the coming NASA NSA 'Bluebeam Project', the new world order fake UFO attack that will subdue the whole world.

Here is part one... its a very entertaining interview. also check out the site www. projectcamelot. org



I did post a megapost about WTC being destroyed by direct energy weapons, because there were footages of laser beam pointed at the 2nd tower before it was hit... or maybe it was a autopilot GUIDANCE system because the maneuver was simply impossible for amateur cave dwelling terrorists.

Here is my post if your interested. please retain my credit if you wish to repost



Eddie NWO Censored






LASER BEAM SPOTTED ON WTC BEFORE COLLISION


Discovery Future Weapons - Direct Energy Weapon


Direct Energy Weapons on Humans pt - 1/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZD__qb2uHA

Direct Energy Weapons on Humans pt - 2/3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak2j9x9Ts_k
Direct Energy Weapons on Humans pt - 3/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKS9X-Keww4

Laser weapons used on 9-11? part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK5_H_tCbfo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrY2OrL6szw

Laser weapons used on 9-11 part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CpWY71o6fg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yA_sf-exvA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMOAVAxtUP0








MILITARY TESTS PLANE WITH ANTI MISSILE LASER August 14, 2008 - A powerful laser designed to shoot ballistic missiles out of the sky has been successfully test-fired for the first time, It is destined to fly on board a modified Boeing 747 aeroplane as part of a US air defence fleet

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Tactical Laser Could Work Like Long-Range Napalm
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Wired. com
By David Hambling
September 06, 2008

http://blog. wired. com/defense/2008/09/tactial-laser-l. html

In science fiction, it's one zap of a laser gun, and you're dead. But real-life energy weapons likely won't work that way

Take the Advanced Tactical Laser (ATL) that U.S. Special Forces have begun to test-fire. Intended for "covert strikes," the ATL has been sold on its ability to blast away with pinpoint accuracy. A very rough estimate shows, however, that the effects when you target an individual are not quite what you might expect

The ATL's laser beam is widely quoted as being ten centimeters wide at the target. It's exact power has never been stated, but it's somewhere in the hundred-kilowatt class. (The ATL has a single 12,000 lb laser module while the "megawatt class" Airborne Laser fourteen modules each of which is slightly larger, so a hundred kilowatts looks like a reasonable estimate. In addition a hundred kilowatts was the power of the original flying laser, the Airborne Laser Laboratory, and it's the target which new solid state lasers are aiming for, so it seems to be a sort of benchmark for weapons-grade lasers.) It may be somewhat higher (or lower). But by applying a little basic physics we can get a ballpark estimate of what this might do to flesh. For simplicity, I'll assume flesh has similar properties to water. The heat capacity of water is about 4.2 joules per gram per degree centigrade. The heat of vaporization (the energy needed to turn water at boiling point to steam) is 2261 joules per gram

So if the beam stays on the same spot of the target for a full two seconds –- which is a very long time under the circumstances –- it would in theory boil off a disc around one centimeter deep. In real life, the laser would be much less effective, as smoke and steam would rapidly degrade the effectiveness of the beam. Also in real life, the energy is likely to be focused at the center of the beam. And flesh is not water. And nobody is going to hand around being lasered that long… But we're just trying to get a general idea of orders of magnitude here

Bullets are lethal when they damage a vital organ (like the heart or the brain) or when they cause rapid blood loss. Most likely, a laser of this type would not easily be able to go deep enough to affect a vital organ. Plus, the laser would will be self-cauterizing, with the heat sealing off blood vessels. It's not going to kill you quickly

While research in this area tends to be classified. But from what we know, the Air Force considers laser effects on eyes and skin, for the most part. Skin damage is very much easier to achieve than penetration; simply raising skin temperature to (say) 80C/ 180 f to a depth of a couple of millimeters will cause serious blistering (second-third degree burns). If 40% of the body is burned in this way, then the target will be disabled and may die

A rough calculation suggests that exposed skin would be blistered/burned in under a twentieth of a second, so the beam could play over the target at quite a high rate. It's unclear whether clothing would have much protective effect or whether it would simply ignite and cause secondary burns

So instead of "zap-and-you're-dead" in normal science fiction style, with a hundred kilowatt laser, it's more a matter of spraying the target all over to ensure they're done. The description of the ATL as a "long range blow torch" is probably quite accurate

Read The Rest HERE

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Boeing Tests Entire Weapon System on Advanced Tactical Laser Aircraft
************************************************** **********
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v5SDo0rH1Xo

Boeing News
ST. LOUIS, Aug. 13, 2008

http://www. boeing. com/news/releases/2008/q3/080813a_nr. html

The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] has successfully completed the first ground test of the entire weapon system integrated aboard the Advanced Tactical Laser (ATL) aircraft, achieving a key milestone in the ATL Advanced Concept Technology Demonstration program

During the test Aug. 7 at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M., the ATL aircraft, a C-130H, fired its high-energy chemical laser through its beam control system. The beam control system acquired a ground target and guided the laser beam to the target, as directed by ATL's battle management system. The laser passes through a rotating turret on the aircraft's belly

"By firing the laser through the beam control system for the first time, the ATL team has begun to demonstrate the functionality of the entire weapon system integrated aboard the aircraft," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of Boeing Missile Defense Systems. "This is a major step toward providing the ultra-precision engagement capability that the warfighter needs to dramatically reduce collateral damage"

After conducting additional tests on the ground and in the air, the program will demonstrate ATL's military utility by firing the laser in-flight at mission-representative ground targets later this year

On May 13, the high-energy laser was fired aboard the ATL aircraft for the first time, demonstrating reliable operations previously achieved in a laboratory. During that test, an onboard calorimeter captured the laser beam before it left the aircraft

ATL, which Boeing is developing for the U.S. Department of Defense, will destroy, damage or disable targets with little to no collateral damage, supporting missions on the battlefield and in urban operations. Boeing's ATL industry team includes L-3 Communications/Brashear, which made the laser turret, and HYTEC Inc., which made various structural elements of the weapon system


Fox – Right Out Of Star Wars? New Airborne Laser Cannon Can Melt A Hole In A Tank From 5 Miles Away


March 31, 2008 - Boeing released this promotional video for the YAL-1 Airborne Laser, a modified 747-400 that is being developed to shoot down ballistic missiles during the first few minutes of flight


************************************************** **********
Boeing Tests Entire Weapon System on Advanced Tactical Laser Aircraft
************************************************** **********

Boeing News
ST LOUIS
Aug. 13, 2008

http://www. boeing. com/news/releases/2008/q3/080813a_nr. html

The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] has successfully completed the first ground test of the entire weapon system integrated aboard the Advanced Tactical Laser (ATL) aircraft, achieving a key milestone in the ATL Advanced Concept Technology Demonstration program

During the test Aug. 7 at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M., the ATL aircraft, a C-130H, fired its high-energy chemical laser through its beam control system. The beam control system acquired a ground target and guided the laser beam to the target, as directed by ATL's battle management system. The laser passes through a rotating turret on the aircraft's belly

"By firing the laser through the beam control system for the first time, the ATL team has begun to demonstrate the functionality of the entire weapon system integrated aboard the aircraft," said Scott Fancher, vice president and general manager of Boeing Missile Defense Systems. "This is a major step toward providing the ultra-precision engagement capability that the warfighter needs to dramatically reduce collateral damage"

After conducting additional tests on the ground and in the air, the program will demonstrate ATL's military utility by firing the laser in-flight at mission-representative ground targets later this year

On May 13, the high-energy laser was fired aboard the ATL aircraft for the first time, demonstrating reliable operations previously achieved in a laboratory. During that test, an onboard calorimeter captured the laser beam before it left the aircraft

ATL, which Boeing is developing for the U.S. Department of Defense, will destroy, damage or disable targets with little to no collateral damage, supporting missions on the battlefield and in urban operations. Boeing's ATL industry team includes L-3 Communications/Brashear, which made the laser turret, and HYTEC Inc., which made various structural elements of the weapon system


AA flight forced to make emergency landing in LAX Los Angeles, smoke spewing out of plane - Aug 5, 2008

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Jet Evacuated After Emergency Landing at LAX
************************************************** *

Passenger plane evacuated after emergency landing at Los Angeles International Airport

The Associated Press
LOS ANGELES August 5, 2008 (AP)

Passengers are being evacuated by inflatable chutes from an American Airlines jetliner after an emergency landing at Los Angeles International Airport


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2R_iTx6niQw



Discovery Future Weapons - Boeing ABL anti-missile laser

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Boeing Airborne Laser Team Begins Testing Laser with Chemical Fuel
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Monday, Jul 28, 2008

http://www. yourdefencenews. com/news_item. php?newsID=8381

ST LOUIS, July 28, 2008 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA], industry teammates and the U.S Missile Defense Agency have completed installing the high-energy laser aboard the Airborne Laser (ABL) aircraft and have begun testing the laser with its chemical fuel at Edwards Air Force Base, Calif

The tests involve flowing the laser's chemicals through the laser to confirm sequencing and control Once these tests are completed, the test team will fire the laser aboard the aircraft on the ground for the first time

"The Airborne Laser team has done a great job preparing the high-energy laser for these fuel tests, which will lead the way toward achieving 'first light' of the laser aboard the aircraft," said Mike Rinn, Boeing vice president and ABL program director "Once again, we made and demonstrated enormous progress toward ushering in a new age of directed-energy weapons"

Repeated laser firings aboard the aircraft will demonstrate lasing duration and power at levels suitable for the destruction of multiple classes of ballistic missiles. The laser will then be fired through the aircraft's beam control/fire control system, including the nose-mounted turret. This will be followed by functional check flights of the entire ABL weapon system The test campaign will start with the first airborne intercept of a ballistic missile in 2009

The ABL aircraft consists of a modified Boeing 747-400F whose back half holds the high-energy laser, designed and built by Northrop Grumman. Before being installed, the high-energy laser completed rigorous ground testing in a laboratory at Edwards The aircraft's front half contains the beam control/fire control system, developed by Lockheed Martin, and the battle management system, provided by Boeing

Boeing is the prime contractor for ABL, which will provide speed-of-light capability to destroy all classes of ballistic missiles in their boost phase of flight



************************************************** *****
American Airlines Testing Anti-Missile Technology
************************************************** *****


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WasIoFGRbHU


CBS News
Jul 16, 2008

http://wbztv. com/local/airplane. safety. boston. 2. 772779. html

BOSTON (WBZ) ― You can almost touch the planes as they roar over Point Shirley in Winthrop on their way to Logan Airport. The passengers were checked for explosives before they got on, however, a growing concern is what could happen away from the airport: Terrorist firing a shoulder launched-missile just outside the airport's property The light weight weapons are becoming and more available on the black market, as many as 150,000 are believed to be in circulation and can easily bring down a plane

But now American Airlines is flying with new defensive technology on some of its New York to Los Angeles flights

Developed in New Hampshire by defense contractor, BAE Systems, the cross country passenger jets are now equipped with a laser deterrent system mounted on the plane's belly. It can identify and misdirect an incoming missile It's being tested for Homeland Security

Laurie Nuzzo is the Program manager for BAE Systems in Nashua New Hampshire where technology was developed. "Over several years we have been testing and validating the system So now it is really great to see us now at this point on an in service passenger aircraft"

American Airlines is not using the technology on any Boston-based flights. At $1 million per plane, the missile defense system is expensive Nonetheless passenger we spoke to like the idea

"No one is going to catch you by surprise now, maybe it will save lives," said one traveler

BAE Systems is one of two defense contractors hoping to win a government contract Congress will decide the future of this technology before next summer

Experts say as many as 27 different terrorists organizations have the shoulder missile weapons They sell for as little as $10,000



Feds adding ANTI EXPLOSION DEVICES on American airlines 7-16-08



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ8fHeRaGGI



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Beleaguered American cancels 900 more flights
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Carrier inspects wiring on MD-80s; estimated 250,000 travelers affected

Associated Press
4-10-08

http://www. msnbc. msn. com/id/24029455/

DALLAS - American Airlines canceled more than 900 flights Thursday to fix faulty wiring in hundreds of jets, marking the third straight day of mass groundings as company executives offered profuse apologies and travel vouchers to calm angry customers

American, the nation’s largest carrier, has now scrubbed more than 2,400 flights since Tuesday, when federal regulators warned that nearly half its planes could violate a safety regulation designed to prevent fires

That’s more than one in three flights canceled over the last three days

Daniel Garton, an executive vice president of American, said cancellations could extend into Friday

Slow process
A return to normal operations depends on how quickly mechanics can inspect and fix the wire bundles Airline spokesman Tim Wagner said late Wednesday afternoon that 60 planes had been cleared to fly, 119 were being worked on, and 121 planes had not yet been inspected

The fallout could be seen at airport ticket counters, where frustrated customers bickered with American employees, and on the stock market, where shares of American’s parent company tumbled more than 11 percent Wednesday

American estimates that more than 100 passengers would have been on each of those canceled flights That means a quarter-million people have been inconvenienced this week

Airline executives said they thought they had fixed the wiring two weeks ago, when they canceled more than 400 flights to inspect and in some cases fix the shielding around the wires in their MD-80 aircraft

But this week, Federal Aviation Administration inspectors (FAA), who have been conducting stepped-up surveys of airline compliance with safety rules called airworthiness directives, said 15 of 19 American jets they examined flunked That left the airline no choice but to ground all 300 of its MD-80s, the most common jet in American’s 655-plane fleet

“We have obviously failed to complete the airworthiness directive to the precise standards that the FAA requires, and I take full responsibility for that,” Gerard Arpey, American’s chairman and chief executive, said at an industry event in California

The FAA's second wave of audits will go on until June 30, The New York Times reported on Thursday, so the misery for flyers could go on for months

American VP apologizes
Back at American’s headquarters in Fort Worth, Garton apologized for the snafu and vowed the airline would fix the problem this time

“We simply cannot put our customers through this again,” he said

Garton added that for American, “this certainly couldn’t have come at a worse time” The airline faces record fuel prices and fear of a recession, and analysts forecast that its parent, AMR Corp, lost more than $300 million in the first three months of the year

American declined to say how much it would spend on $500 travel vouchers and hotel rooms for stranded travelers and overtime for mechanics, or how much revenue it would lose by putting some displaced customers on other airlines But Garton said it would be “significant”

Perhaps worried about that cost, investors on Wednesday sent AMR shares down $115 to $917

American’s problem — and Alaska Airlines’ cancellation of 14 flights Wednesday to inspect its nine MD-80s — stems from an FAA order in 2006 covering the bundling of wires in the backup power system for the fuel pump of the MD-80 The FAA says improperly bundled wires could rub, leading to an electrical short or even fire

American officials said the safety of their planes was never jeopardized, and the FAA said no serious incidents have been blamed on poorly bundled wires

‘We’re a little skeptical’
Some passengers took a jaundiced view toward American’s promise to fix the problems

Kathy Neer of Santa Fe, N.M., was caught up in both waves of cancellations to and from a vacation in Paris She and her husband were stranded in Dallas on Tuesday on the final leg of their journey home American gave the Neers a voucher for a hotel room and seats on another flight home Wednesday

“They say our flight is leaving at 3:55 p.m, but do you think we trust them?” Neer said “After being burned twice, we’re a little skeptical”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9z15bgkoy4
..
Anti-missile lasers installed on American Airline flights


ABL or BAE laser SPOTTED ON WTC 2nd tower during 9-11 - remote guidance systems?

[Magamud]

A little syncronicity.

Holographic reporter. CNN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPgdBsh90jg

[1mack]

What proof can you point to in supporting the use of planes? None of the video I watched convinced me of real planes. The plane holes on -both- buildings were located on the computer floors, ideal locations for the black op team to rig the exterior columns with explosives to create plane-shape cutouts.



-feeler


Hey feeler, thanks for responding to my comment. Like I said before, I am open to many things, and perhaps there were no planes, but as of now,there is more evidence suggesting that the planes were real and that explosives were used to bring down the towers. Just wondering, do you believe that space beams brought the towers down or that explosives brought the tower down? Quite a lot of people who believe that there were no planes also believe that high energy space beams were used in the towers' destruction. I think it is obvious that there are a lot of disinfo people out there, but hopefully with good efforts and research we can become a part of the solution (figuring out what really happened) and not a part of the problem (blindly following what certain persons may say without investigation). It can be intimidating learning of or meeting people who have different "knowledge" of what did or didn't happen, but hopefully we can make it through.

[feeler]

Hey feeler, thanks for responding to my comment. Like I said before, I am open to many things, and perhaps there were no planes, but as of now,there is more evidence suggesting that the planes were real and that explosives were used to bring down the towers. Just wondering, do you believe that space beams brought the towers down or that explosives brought the tower down? Quite a lot of people who believe that there were no planes also believe that high energy space beams were used in the towers' destruction. I think it is obvious that there are a lot of disinfo people out there, but hopefully with good efforts and research we can become a part of the solution (figuring out what really happened) and not a part of the problem (blindly following what certain persons may say without investigation). It can be intimidating learning of or meeting people who have different "knowledge" of what did or didn't happen, but hopefully we can make it through.


If you go to Dr. Judy Woods' web site, you will find charts that reflect the magnetic shift at the times of the plane impacts and "collapses." Particle beam weapons could have been situated on the ground, inside nearby buildings, or on top of nearby buildings (therefore the term "space beam" might not be entirely accurate). Explosives were used to give the impression of a gravity collapse, but the primary method of destruction was the directed energy weapons that disintegrated the concrete and softened the steel.

Recent earthquakes in other parts of the world also raised attention to the HAARP technology that the government has developed. Frequent bridge collapses in recent years also increased speculation on the possible use of directed energy weapons. -feeler

[dataeast]

Holograms can't be tracked or give a radar return like planes do.

http://www.911blogger.com/node/14583

http://www.communitycurrency.org/robin.html

[Magamud]

Radar deception through phantom track generation. But again this is academic.


https://labs.tdl.org/tdl/handle/1969.1/3169

[dataeast]

...
Controllers at the Boston Center knew American Airlines Flight 11, which departed at 7:59 a.m. ET from Boston for its flight to Los Angeles, was hijacked 30 minutes before it crashed. They tracked it to New York on their radar scopes.

"I watched the target of American 11 the whole way down," said Boston controller Mark Hodgkins. But it was only when the television pictures of a burning World Trade Center tower came on, that he knew why the flight had disappeared from his scope.

For Doug McKay, a 20-year veteran at the Boston Center, the hijacked flights hit much closer to home.

Before he left for work on Sept. 11, he heard on radio and television that the World Trade Center's North Tower had been hit. As he was watching the news report, he saw the second flight slam into the South Tower.

...

Cont.: http://web.archive.org/web/20021001221352/http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/sept11_controllers020906.html

[dataeast]

Radar deception through phantom track generation. But again this is academic.


https://labs.tdl.org/tdl/handle/1969.1/3169

The thesis is from 2005. It presupposes that the ECAVs themselves have 360 degrees stealth capability because the scenario is in an area of enclosed radar coverage. By design they will be limited to the size required by their radars. And that, in this scenario, the ECAV's would need to engage all radars in the covered area including NORAD, unlike in offensive ECM scenarios where the outer fringes are probed and stealth is at its highest (generally frontal radar cross section).

[Callidon]

Sweet lord of mercy people really will latch on to anything regardless of how ludicrous it is.

"What proof can you point to in supporting the use of planes? None of the video I watched convinced me of real planes. The plane holes on -both- buildings were located on the computer floors, ideal locations for the black op team to rig the exterior columns with explosives to create plane-shape cutouts."


Honestly the single most ridiculous thing i have read on here, and perhaps, anywhere, ever.

It boggles my mind that people think this. The planes were tracked independantly via radar, there are thousands of eyewitneses, the physical evidence from the vids/pics/wreckage of the towers supports the inclusion of the planes.

Agreed, the manner of collapse and explanation that it was the planes that caused the actual collapses is highly suspect, but to think people would make light and fantastic claims over a serious world shattering event like this makes me not only deeply concerned but horrified and sickened.

The beliefs/views i have on the 9/11 event do not try to trivialize it in any way, they do not try to make it into some fantastical magical mystery of lights and sound. Its deception over the truth of the manner of collapse, and the evidence of who was really behind it.

Lest not you forget that hundreds of people, people with families, some of which may be present on this very forum, died onboard those planes and thousands more in the buildings. I cannot countenance anyone making claims that trivialize the pain and misery brought upon the victims families on that day.

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves, and get back on track with the disclosure of the real issues.

[Seth Haniel]

"Honestly the single most ridiculous thing i have read on here, and perhaps, anywhere, ever.

It boggles my mind that people think this. The planes were tracked independantly via radar, there are thousands of eyewitneses, the physical evidence from the vids/pics/wreckage of the towers supports the inclusion of the planes."


Wake up and Believe ;0

can you please point me to the wreckage pics of the plane - the engine was from a different type of plane altogether - the piece with the windows intact when everything else shredded to fine dust - come on - open your eyes to the truth

[Callidon]

My eyes are open, and what kind of proof can you offer me otherwise?

Open your eyes, if i'm the one that needs "convincing", convince me.

Trouble is you can't, don't decry my not believing this toss because my eyes are closed, thats weak and not even a valid arguement.

Point me to the proof that they were holographic, point me to the proof that they didnt exist, point me to the thing that, in your bent view, explains what happened to the people aboard those planes.

The real problem here is your looking further and further into things looking to make an even bigger demon out of the USA gov't.

I'm from the UK, i am seeing this from the outside, and all i can see is closed minds belonging to those that claim to be open. Your looking for mystery beyond conspiracy beyond lies. Its not there, wake up.

Ever heard of Occam's Razor? good rule of thumb, here i'll show you...

"One should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything" attb. William Occam (nay Okham)

[Magamud]

Callidon,
Im speculating about the possilbility of holograms to further understand the matrix im in. And please dont use the people who died at 911 to validate your frustrated emotions of not knowing what reality is.

Cheers

[Callidon]

I think you'll find that i'm not "using the people" the plain simple fact is you seem to all be glossing over the horror of that day.

In my opinion i have a far stronger grasp on what reality is, reality is my partner and kids, my job, my family, the way my dog looks at me when i pick up his lead, the wind in the tree's and the rain. Reality is not looking for explanations to things which require no explanation, just the details fleshing out. I believe whole heartedly that we have all been decieved as to what really went on on that september morning. We still don't really know who was behind it, or how the jet fuel on board the planes, which would have burnt rapidly, managed to bring the towers down (in my opinion, by controlled means). I don't believe for one second that it was all smoke and mirrors.

You all preach, yes preach, freedom of mind and voice, but your constant decrying of anyone that doesn't share your veiws is startlingly oppressive. Every single thread on here started, or replied to in a manner that does not support the OP or the communities beliefs gets shot down with moralistic arguements like "And please dont use the people who died at 911 to validate your frustrated emotions of not knowing what reality is."

I have no frustrated emotions. You believe that you know my state of mind and feelings better than i know them myself? I am merely speaking out against something that i happen to believe is the biggest pile of **** around about the 9/11 incedent, and that i personally find to be ridiculously unfeasable. I can give you a garauntee that i am not the only person on this forum that believes such.

I'm not trying to get personal with anyone, so don't come over all high station that its just my emotions, or that your moral view is more valid. Everyones opinion is valid, this threads opinion is that it was smoke and mirrors, mine, as you can see, is quite strongly opposed to that theory, that does not mean i think your opinion is not valid.

You want me to wake up and smell the arabica beans? Open my eyes to the light?


Show me.

100% undeniably.

And i'll take it all back.

[wags]

Would like to put my two bob’s worth in if I may.
It has always intrigued me how an aircraft could just ‘bury’ itself into a building. Maybe there is someone out there who could explain this to me.
I have a long history working with heavy earthmoving machinery, including manufacture of ground engaging components, steel rakes and timber handling equipment for bulldozers etc. So I do have a little bit of an idea of metal construction though do not have any engineering qualifications.
I have absolutely no knowledge of aircraft construction / manufacture, maybe there is someone out there who could enlighten me in this matter. I assume, aircraft wings, and tail for that matter, are manufactured of a lightweight material, maybe aluminium.
The documentary’s I’ve seen on telly, re the construction of the towers, have shown how the steel beams ‘failed’ due to the impact of the aircraft and subsequent explosion. My main interest here is: the buildings were constructed with steel beams in a recognised / accepted / proven engineering manner, which had never failed prior to 9 /11, so they say, a very strong and stable construction.
I understand how the villosity of impact could amount to an aircraft being able to penetrate the buildings to a certain degree, but I don’t understand how it could be completely ‘buried’ into the building. I can’t see how the wing tips would penetrate a steel construction let alone the tail section doing the same thing, disappearing into the building that is.
I think, someone help me out here, the tail of these aircraft, that reportedly hit the towers, stands quite a bit higher than the fuselage of the craft, would not the tail section of the aircraft be travelling at quite a reduced speed than the nose of the craft on impact, making it just about impossible to have enough villosity to enter the building, acknowledging the impact area of the tail is quite higher than the hole in the building where the fuselage entered. Would not the tail be left on the outside of the building?
I realise the explosion prevents us seeing much of what happens when the aircraft impacts the tower, maybe there is someone out there who is skilled enough to be able to ‘slow’ the film down so as to be able to see the wings and tail section enter the building. My thoughts are, these lightweight sections of the aircraft would have to break away from the fuselage on impact, not disappear into the building.
Maybe I have all this wrong, just a thought.
(no thoughts on hologram’s, that stuff is way beyond me)

[Callidon]

Basically, the speed at which the aircraft were travelling at the time, coupled with the lightwieght materials and inherant flexibility of the wing design means that as the wings meet the outer structure of the tower, they kinda fold back, therefore not penetrating in the horizontal manner i think you imagine.

As for the tail sction the same is true there. The "fin" itself folds down when it impacts. It helps if you can imagine the mechanics of an arrow with a feather flight. the main shaft, or fuselage, of the arrow is a semi-rigid construct, it can crumple as they did on 9/11, but essentially they pierce the body(tower) they impact. Then imagine the flights as the wings, they are lighweight in nature and will fold back to the body of the arrow allowing them to pass thorugh the body(tower) without having to create their own channel with which to pass through.

This means that you won't see the wings/tail section make extra holes or damage as they are essentially folding back to pass through the hole made by the main fuselage section.

Hope this clears up you question, if not, i'll be glad to help

[samncheese]

This has been a healthy discussion and I thank you all on the topic, but I will state simply not all the numbers add up here.

1 aircraft penatrating a building wing tips and all? I live in Seattle and have watched boeing do speed test on the tail of aircraft and watch them rip off due to high speed, and the impact on a building would send at least parts of it to the street, and the wing tips are thinner and and more prone to damage. A fuel truck on the ground so much as touches the wing and it does 10's of thousands of $$ of damage.

2 If the aircraft and people are gone they are gone, but if it was a show then the aircraft that the paperwork says was distroyed wasn't distroyed and there is proof somewhere on this planet.

3 If the aircraft were distroyed like the gov says John Lear is a liar. If the aircraft and people were not distroyed and John lear is telling the truth then there is proof somewhere to back it up. The implications are huge. Not even our gov. can keep a secret this big and get it right. It would take the co-operation of hundreds if not thousands of people to pull this off, and somebody would talk.

[Callidon]

Oh of course sam, if they did the big bad then somewhere out there is a peice of paper waiting to prove it.

As for the aircraft penetrating the building, the outer walls were not as of the same solid construction of most skyscrapers of the era, the buildings strength came from the rigid central core construction, so it's entirely feasable for the whole aircraft to penetrate it.

[samncheese]

What I am saying is you can't have it both ways...either some terrrorist crashed planes into the buildings...or...there is a trail to follow proving they didn't.

[dataeast]

...

The documentary’s I’ve seen on telly, re the construction of the towers, have shown how the steel beams ‘failed’ due to the impact of the aircraft and subsequent explosion. My main interest here is: the buildings were constructed with steel beams in a recognised / accepted / proven engineering manner, which had never failed prior to 9 /11, so they say, a very strong and stable construction.

...

The construction of the facade was a lattice/jigsaw of hollow steel section and it had lateral strength only, the concrete & steel core was the main load bearing structure. The outer facade was made of 1/4 inch steel plate welded in box sections, glass and plaster and there is no actual concrete in the construction. So, they aren't actually steel beams as such, it's just an illusion.

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian/WTC/col-dimensions.gif

The facade is designed for lateral strength, so an object, such as a plane at ninety degrees flying into it is hitting at it's weakest design point, particularly if it was in the middle of the adjacent floors. I guess a different story if it had directly hit the plane of the floor.

http://911review.org/Wget/www.nerdcities.com/guardian/wtc/spandrel.jpg

The plane was flying at around 500 mph (805 kph) and it's mass and velocity carried enough kinetic energy to sheer the latticework of the skin. Once inside and between the floors the fuel onboard ignited and produced an explosion whilst sandwiched between them, so contained and deflected the blast back upon itself further disintegrating the pieces that initially survived sheering/shredding through the facade.

This has been a healthy discussion and I thank you all on the topic, but I will state simply not all the numbers add up here.

1 aircraft penatrating a building wing tips and all? I live in Seattle and have watched boeing do speed test on the tail of aircraft and watch them rip off due to high speed, and the impact on a building would send at least parts of it to the street, and the wing tips are thinner and and more prone to damage. A fuel truck on the ground so much as touches the wing and it does 10's of thousands of $$ of damage.

Yes, but it depends on the angle and the velocity, the point of impact was roughly ninety degrees with enough kinetic energy to offset most of the deflection and there is a greater area of glass compared to the area of steel section. However, there was plane debris scattered in the area and on to the tops of surrounding buildings.

I would not equate a dollar value to damages by a truck to a plane. It would not be the correct comparison because we are talking about quality standards and damages to control surfaces which affect the flight worthiness of the plane. It's like when you have a car accident and it no longer meets roadworthy standards and you get the bill from an accredited repairer.:shocked:

2 If the aircraft and people are gone they are gone, but if it was a show then the aircraft that the paperwork says was distroyed wasn't distroyed and there is proof somewhere on this planet.

Sure.

3 If the aircraft were distroyed like the gov says John Lear is a liar. If the aircraft and people were not distroyed and John lear is telling the truth then there is proof somewhere to back it up. The implications are huge. Not even our gov. can keep a secret this big and get it right. It would take the co-operation of hundreds if not thousands of people to pull this off, and somebody would talk.

I wouldn't think that that would mean that he was a liar, but that he has some information that suggests something else, none of this is on a personal level, we are comparing evidence. I assume it was his opinion. It'd be great if he released what he did know so that it could be reviewed amongst the other evidence.

[samncheese]

Dataeast I like the way you think. I have never heard anyone state that aircraft parts hit the roofs of other buildings... I would love a link to where you got that info...

Thanks
Be at peace

[dataeast]

Dataeast I like the way you think. I have never heard anyone state that aircraft parts hit the roofs of other buildings... I would love a link to where you got that info...

Thanks
Be at peace

Here's the overall WTC area:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/FEMAAircraftparts.jpg/FEMAAircraftparts-full.jpg

A piece of the lattice/facade with a wheel embedded into it:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel.jpg/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel-full.jpg

The link with more debris images:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aircraftpartsnyc911

Ground Zero:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/groundzerocleanup%2Cfreshkillssortingopera

The main page "Links for 9/11 Research":
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home

[feeler]

Sweet lord of mercy people really will latch on to anything regardless of how ludicrous it is.

"What proof can you point to in supporting the use of planes? None of the video I watched convinced me of real planes. The plane holes on -both- buildings were located on the computer floors, ideal locations for the black op team to rig the exterior columns with explosives to create plane-shape cutouts."


Honestly the single most ridiculous thing i have read on here, and perhaps, anywhere, ever.

It boggles my mind that people think this. The planes were tracked independantly via radar, there are thousands of eyewitneses, the physical evidence from the vids/pics/wreckage of the towers supports the inclusion of the planes.

Agreed, the manner of collapse and explanation that it was the planes that caused the actual collapses is highly suspect, but to think people would make light and fantastic claims over a serious world shattering event like this makes me not only deeply concerned but horrified and sickened.

The beliefs/views i have on the 9/11 event do not try to trivialize it in any way, they do not try to make it into some fantastical magical mystery of lights and sound. Its deception over the truth of the manner of collapse, and the evidence of who was really behind it.

Lest not you forget that hundreds of people, people with families, some of which may be present on this very forum, died onboard those planes and thousands more in the buildings. I cannot countenance anyone making claims that trivialize the pain and misery brought upon the victims families on that day.

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves, and get back on track with the disclosure of the real issues.



Callidon

It's you who trivialize the fact finding process. Where are these "thousands of eyewitnesses" you are talking about? Where is their witness testimony located? What background check did any of these witnesses pass? Who conducted the interviews and cross-examination?

Keep looking at the plane-shape holes and make believe; it's your prerogative.



-feeler

[feeler]

Here's the overall WTC area:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/FEMAAircraftparts.jpg/FEMAAircraftparts-full.jpg

A piece of the lattice/facade with a wheel embedded into it:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel.jpg/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel-full.jpg

The link with more debris images:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aircraftpartsnyc911

Ground Zero:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/groundzerocleanup%2Cfreshkillssortingopera

The main page "Links for 9/11 Research":
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home



"A piece of the lattice/facade with a wheel embedded into it:"

Only at WTC 1, but not at WTC 2, how convenient.

When/if a reinvestigation takes place, this piece of a plane should be examined to see if the part number on it is consistent with the alleged hijacked jetliner.



-feeler

[samncheese]

thank you for putting this information up, a picture is worth a thousand words. So what does all this say about John Lear? His holograms seem to have wheels.

The truth is always provable and silly lies need to be dispelled. WE SHOULD POINT AND SHOUT AT A LIAR AND LET THE WORLD KNOW.

Be at Peace

[Magamud]

Holographic jets. How do we explain that some tv broadcasts did not have a jet going into the buildings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9DrbqB9CVY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7cKDXnS_s

How do we explain that nose pointing out of the building?

How do we explain the plane just getting engulfed by the buildings?

[samncheese]

That is the back side of the building, plane approching from other side and hiden by the building

[dataeast]

"A piece of the lattice/facade with a wheel embedded into it:"

Only at WTC 1, but not at WTC 2, how convenient.

...

Ah... nevermind. :lol3:

[dataeast]

thank you for putting this information up...

You're welcome. John is entitled to his opinion, just make sure that you verify what is being said at all times, even what I say.

Holographic jets. How do we explain that some tv broadcasts did not have a jet going into the buildings?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9DrbqB9CVY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh7cKDXnS_s

A news broadcast has a studio director who coordinates the main feed of a news article. There is the news presenter who generally sits in a sound studio with a chroma key screen, either composited by a video graphics artist or a physical one, it can be a matte painted card or piece of a prop. In the directors suite, there are several banks of video players (SP Beta or DV) with editors who are directed by the studio director. When a graphic is needed or footage is required, the studio director prepares then directs the appropriate operator to cue the piece of footage or sound.

This is a stressful position to fill as it requires timing to coordinate a cohesive piece particularly if it entails a series of different sources of information. The equipment consists of several video mixer desks connected to linear tape machines (last I recall) with the appropriate footage for the piece. On this occasion, it appears that the footage was not cued to the right position when requested. It was a mistake by whomever was cueing the tape.

Remember that youtube video is a 15fps and at poor quality compared to broadcast quality footage (NTSC 30 fps, PAL 25 fps), so you can't actually compare anything with any accuracy. So the dropping of frames contributes to the goof up as well.

How do we explain that nose pointing out of the building?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_inkblot_test

It's the power of suggestion when a label is associated with an object and stated as fact when it is a subjective interpretation--not fact. View the same incident from other angles to corroborate this. From what I see it is consistent with a blast plume dispersing material from the exit point.

See this as well:
http://truthaction.org/debunkingseptemberclues.pdf

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=823734902101057550&q=september+clues+busted&ei=SkmGSNrjF5O0rgLNsNTDCg&hl=en

How do we explain the plane just getting engulfed by the buildings?

Re-read my other posts on this thread. Go to this link too because from a distance there is no definition of the amount of material that was jettisoned from the buildings. There is plenty of evidence here:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aircraftpartsnyc911

[Magamud]

Woh bro, were you the one who thought of swamp gas illusion for UFO's. Umm nevermind:smoke:

[dataeast]

Woh bro, were you the one who thought of swamp gas illusion for UFO's. Umm nevermind:smoke:

So, how does one produce a hologram in the open air on a sparkling clear sunny day, that produces a radar return?

:wink2:

EDIT:

I gather you never actually visited or viewed anything that was posted. Very telling.

[Magamud]

Ya im a retard and please disregard everything I have suggested. Wild fantasy really. You will need scientific proof of such things. This place is a tyrants technocratic wet dream. A tyrant could always keep you in the dark by hording scientific knowledge. Keeping one step ahead of you.

Good luck

[feeler]

Here's the overall WTC area:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/FEMAAircraftparts.jpg/FEMAAircraftparts-full.jpg

A piece of the lattice/facade with a wheel embedded into it:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel.jpg/7-70_tire-embedded-wtc1-panel-full.jpg

The link with more debris images:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/aircraftpartsnyc911

Ground Zero:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/groundzerocleanup%2Cfreshkillssortingopera

The main page "Links for 9/11 Research":
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home



From the same disinfo site [wtc7lies] dataeast provided: In Figure 7-69, why was the person's right foot photo-shopped out?

Look at the missing right foot of the person in white shirt, black pants, carrying a black hand bag.

____________________________________________|
____________________________________________V
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s.jpg/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s-full.jpg



Note: dataeast, I will not retract my prior description of you [i.e. a "shill"].


-feeler

[Magamud]

Nice one Feeler. The way Dataeast was responding was like some coverup agent trying to stop people from investigating. Weird. Man I just dont get it sometimes, with all the NWO deceit you would think people could synthesize the huge amounts of information and at least be able to speculate the possiblity/probability of Sci Fi holograms. Thinking on it has allowed me to see the incredible deception media can do and understand deeper the power of this MATRIX.

A weird perception to point. The more I come to see the planes as holograms the easier it was to see that they actually were. Another metaphor is with the towers falling. The more I got into the demolition perspective the clearer it was to actually see it was demolition, to the point of DUH! Im breaking my goddamn brain washing. Free your mind and your ass will follow eh?

[samncheese]

Let me make one thing clear, there has been a lot of hoaxes on both side of any of these issues. To find the truth we all need to look at the evidence with the best analisis that we can give it and let the truth lead us, no mattter were it leads us.

Planes/no planes there is still some very odd things that look like an inside job, at the WTO.

Be at peace

[samncheese]

Dear feeler: feel sorry for someone that can't tell the hind end of a woman with her toes pointing forward...black slacks with black shoes form a leg. when the butt of a person is facing the camera it usually means that the toes are pointing the other way....

[Portofino]

Sweet lord of mercy people really will latch on to anything regardless of how ludicrous it is.

"What proof can you point to in supporting the use of planes? None of the video I watched convinced me of real planes. The plane holes on -both- buildings were located on the computer floors, ideal locations for the black op team to rig the exterior columns with explosives to create plane-shape cutouts."


Honestly the single most ridiculous thing i have read on here, and perhaps, anywhere, ever.

It boggles my mind that people think this. The planes were tracked independantly via radar, there are thousands of eyewitneses, the physical evidence from the vids/pics/wreckage of the towers supports the inclusion of the planes.

Agreed, the manner of collapse and explanation that it was the planes that caused the actual collapses is highly suspect, but to think people would make light and fantastic claims over a serious world shattering event like this makes me not only deeply concerned but horrified and sickened.

The beliefs/views i have on the 9/11 event do not try to trivialize it in any way, they do not try to make it into some fantastical magical mystery of lights and sound. Its deception over the truth of the manner of collapse, and the evidence of who was really behind it.

Lest not you forget that hundreds of people, people with families, some of which may be present on this very forum, died onboard those planes and thousands more in the buildings. I cannot countenance anyone making claims that trivialize the pain and misery brought upon the victims families on that day.

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourselves, and get back on track with the disclosure of the real issues.

I think the victims families would like to know the truth. If there is evidence that the planes were not real they would want to know that. Didn't you see the early version of loose Change where 2 of the planes were still flying by the seial number on the tail. The idea of saving the families from more misery was used to stop an investigation of 9 /11 in the first place. The groups representing the victims are not telling anyone they should be ashamed of themselves for bringing forth evidence. They want it all out. There is probably as much evidence (including Operation Northwoods) that there were no planes.

[samncheese]

Well put...You talk about victims, but were they killed in an explosion or murdered by our gov? A guy comes forward and says holograms...ok but he didn't dot all the i's. I don't think for a second that if the gov was willing to kill a few thousand for this and let him talk freely without an accident befalling him. Come on folks let's wake up and use our heads.

The man that called home just before his plane went down, I am refering to the "let's go guy" that the movie was made around, I saw him in vision 9 months before it happened and believe that was a real hijacking situation. I also saw large winged missles hitting the WTO in the same vision. visions can be very enlightening but are not hard evidence.

No, the real truth is still out there and we need to keep looking.

[MusicLover]

Either way this is pretty interesting.I kinda feel bad now for thinking John Lear was a nutball.
True or not....this was done by The American Government.Its just a matter of finding out how the hell they did it.

[feeler]

Dear feeler: feel sorry for someone that can't tell the hind end of a woman with her toes pointing forward...black slacks with black shoes form a leg. when the butt of a person is facing the camera it usually means that the toes are pointing the other way....



I don't feel sorry for your not being able to tell the right leg of the person, through photoshopping, has been shortened, rounded, and blurred at the end. -feeler




http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s.jpg/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s-full.jpg

[feeler]

Let me make one thing clear, there has been a lot of hoaxes on both side of any of these issues.



Make yourself clear. What hoaxes have you been exposed to on both sides? Provide two lists, one for each side please.



-feeler

[samncheese]

There are more people putting up on the internet fake photos of aliens than alpha-bet agencies taking them out of photo's. The fact that you can't tell which way a little old lady is facing shows how important it is to really Think about what is being said and then testing the science behind it. Your supposition dosen't hold up, and it has no validity to your claim. For all anyone knows the photo is from a plane crash somewhere else.

You are hell bent on it being holograms, there for any evidence to the contrary is false, this is not science or seeking the truth, it is a witch hunt. Feeler I implore you to just seek truth and let it guide your path. I have stated that something is not right with the WTC collaps, but logic says the true answers haven't been disclosed yet.

Be at peace

[dataeast]

From the same disinfo site [wtc7lies] dataeast provided: In Figure 7-69, why was the person's right foot photo-shopped out?

Look at the missing right foot of the person in white shirt, black pants, carrying a black hand bag.

____________________________________________|
____________________________________________V
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s.jpg/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s-full.jpg

The woman has her back to us, why would you expect to see her foot when it has been foreshortened?

I would not place any faith on your perceptual abilities if you cannot discern the front or backside of a person.

Might you be the misdirection artist?

Note: dataeast, I will not retract my prior description of you [i.e. a "shill"].


-feeler



That's a compliment coming from you and of course it's innuendo, unless you regard anyone else who challenges your arguments as a shill. I would not even credit you with misdirection in the above case because I sincerely think that you believe your own BS. Instead of trying to assassinate my character which works against you btw, why don't you come up with another line of tact, like say a worthy argument?

Getting emotional isn't any way to form an objective viewpoint.

Nice one Feeler. The way Dataeast was responding was like some coverup agent trying to stop people from investigating. Weird. Man I just dont get it sometimes, with all the NWO deceit you would think people could synthesize the huge amounts of information and at least be able to speculate the possiblity/probability of Sci Fi holograms. Thinking on it has allowed me to see the incredible deception media can do and understand deeper the power of this MATRIX.

...

Be careful in whom you believe, verify everything.



Make yourself clear. What hoaxes have you been exposed to on both sides? Provide two lists, one for each side please.



-feeler

You haven't provided any conclusive information as to holographic planes, nor have you demonstrated that your perceptual abilities are on par with even the casual observer.

Why don't you work on some basic social skills if you want to continue fighting for justice?

[indakaz]

hello, for all who are interested, check out my new 5 part documentary called the hologram conspiracy on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CBD9B4C6547CD073

enjoy!

[Magamud]

Cool stuff indakaz.
My question is why do people suppose that they would ever understand the tech being used by the "Elite". Would not a smart dictator use tech that people could not comprehend? Circumstantial evidence would suggest that holograms is the answer. It would fit the inconsistencies, mssing planes, different planes, lack of wrekage, tampering with different news media and being engulfed in the towers.

I personally have had experiences seeing morphing technology and it is a wonder to see. I saw a fireball turn into three star lights and inpersonate a flying plane. We are hypnotized and live in a matrix. I suspect the law to have all tv's high definition quality is to increase this HARMonization.

Godspeed

[dataeast]

Could you provide a brief synopsis or outline of the documentary?

Thanks.

hello, for all who are interested, check out my new 5 part documentary called the hologram conspiracy on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CBD9B4C6547CD073

enjoy!

[samncheese]

Indakaz; Hi, that is great you raised a lot of good questions, What was your take on John Lears prediction that the hologram invasion would be fall us before the elections? do you think CNN did this to open us up to the idea of holograms or is it something more?

I would like to make this clear I started this thread to learn more about the subject because it is still clouded in smoke and mirrors. I don't want anyone to think I am calling John Lear a liar, I don't know him from Joe the plumber, I don't know if he is getting disinformation and sees it a credible. So I wished to start a discussion on the topic to raise my understanding of these events with the vast knowlege base that is Avalon. Feeler I am not saying you are wrong I am saying it is foolish to look at one photo and discribe the entire world from it.

Thank you Dataeast...

peace be with you

[feeler]

The fact that you can't tell which way a little old lady is facing shows how important it is to really Think about what is being said and then testing the science behind it.



Did I ever state the person was facing the camera? Quote please. Hint: Why did I even bother to use the term "right" in "missing right foot" in my questioning?

Do not avoid my prior point: "...your not being able to tell the right leg of the person, through photoshopping, has been shortened, rounded, and blurred at the end." -feeler



http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s.jpg/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s-full.jpg

[samncheese]

Sorry, it looks like an old person standing on old stubby legs to me, shadows and all. I didn't claim to have any answers, in fact I claimed to not have enouph. You can print this picture everywhere it still does not address the issue, it does point out that something is wrong. Which I think was my point from the beginning. Do I think the answer lies in the fussy end of some womans leg? well that will have to be argued by someone a whole lot smarter than I.

You claim to see it, ok. What sort of camera was used?
What lens?
What light setting?
What film/ digital/chemical?

I do know a little about photography and what you call photo shop mistakes can be reproduced by many tricks of light/ angle of veiw/ and combinations there in. Without the original pic in hand for study you are standing on a limb that all you can do is point to and say " this looks wrong to me, what do all of you think?"

Where is the original? Can it be found for comparison? yes some times I am stubborn on insiting that real hard evidence be found.

I will tell you what else bothers me about that pic, the person who took it made sure he owns it " Charles Marsh" If that pic has been doctored then it leads straight back to him. Who is he and does he stand by the photo here on the net?

[feeler]

Do I think the answer lies in the fussy end of some womans leg? well that will have to be argued by someone a whole lot smarter than I.

I hear the same message from the shills again and again: "DON'T BELIEVE YOUR LYING EYES! LET SOMEONE SMARTER DO IT FOR YOU!"



You claim to see it, ok. What sort of camera was used?
What lens?
What light setting?
What film/ digital/chemical?

If so much "relevant" information of the photo is missing/unknown to the public, why is this photo being used as evidence to convince the public that real planes were used to bury themselves into the towers? -feeler

Photo: MISSING FOOT

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s.jpg/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s-full.jpg

[samncheese]

Feeler that is a good question...Why this pic?

[samncheese]

found this very interesting:http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=91920[/URL]

[dataeast]

...

If so much "relevant" information of the photo is missing/unknown to the public, why is this photo being used as evidence to convince the public that real planes were used to bury themselves into the towers? -feeler

...

Nobody but yourself has claimed that the image is fraudulent, so the onus is upon you to prove it, else it remains just a claim or opinion.

EDIT:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/112/295172587_d1e30b2bde.jpg

[feeler]

Nobody but yourself has claimed that the image is fraudulent, so the onus is upon you to prove it, else it remains just a claim or opinion.

EDIT:




Photo: MISSING FOOT

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s.jpg/7-69_landing-gear-tire_west-rector-s-full.jpg

[samncheese]

This reminds me of that drawing of the old woman and if you sqwinted your eyes another way it was a young woman.

I am sorry Feeler I don't see anything wrong with the picture itself, but I will keep an open mind about it. I have been searching for the originator of it to see if we can find out who exactly took it, but that may take some time.

[feeler]

I've never seen a more contrived image of a proof: an engine standing in an upright position with the "MURRAY" street sign in front of it. Is this an exhibit or something?



-feeler


http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/6310312271.jpg/6310312271-full.jpg

[samncheese]

Wow, a close up of it too, The only thing this proves is your stuck in your own reality...

[feeler]

Wow, a close up of it too, The only thing this proves is your stuck in your own reality...


Proof of real planes.

:roll1:


My reality is not the one created by Philip Zelikow; that's for sure.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/AircraftPartswtc.jpg/AircraftPartswtc-full.jpg

[samncheese]

That is so clear thank you for patience with me.

Be at peace

[feeler]

That is so clear thank you for patience with me.

Be at peace



You are welcome. Enjoy the exhibit photos.



-feeler

[Magamud]

How do we explain the plane/holograph not having a shadow?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0ROZEt0ugw

[samncheese]

Hi magamud: very compelling.

[Magamud]

Howdy Sam,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqEpuTGc98s

I really like this guys take on it and his series. Showing media tampering, coordinated camera shots, nose in nose out evidence, missing planes, inconsistencies, planned scripts, planted witnesses, cuts in tape. This whole event was a military exercise in the Sci Fi extreme. God help us all.

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE3hvucKsRM
Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovB-Mrwn0fY
Part 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocgm_a22l00

Inconsistencies with plane trajectory. Different shaded planes, edited tape, edit audio, different backgrounds, different broadcasts from live to evening news. Missing planes, planted evidence of debris, inconsistent plane reports, demolishion of towers, coordinated planted media reports, withholding video evidence, numerous witnesses working with the media establshiment.

How could one not think there is a possibility of holographic planes and shut the door to it?

This is the guys homesite i believe, great info and good luck!
http://www.livevideo.com/socialservice

[Marcus Knudsen]

I've never seen a more contrived image of a proof: an engine standing in an upright position with the "MURRAY" street sign in front of it. Is this an exhibit or something?



-feeler


http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/6310312271.jpg/6310312271-full.jpg

One of the guys project camelot interviewed said that this engine and some other stuff was planted there but that they did a huge mistake and used the wrong kind of engine... But there are not many people who know enough about engines to be able to tell.

[Magamud]

Ya Lear saids they are not the right engines with the planes. Anyone no more?

[feeler]

Ya Lear saids they are not the right engines with the planes. Anyone no more?


Magamud


Here's the link where Jon Carlson makes his case:


South Tower Flight UA175 Dropped
WRONG Engine In NYC Street


http://home.att.net/~south.tower/STengine1.htm



-feeler

[warngen]

Feeler,
About the photo of the woman's missing foot.
Lets think about this in a little more deeper sense...FOOD FOR THOUGHT:
The people in the photo are going about as usual; as if there weren't a cameraman, let alone the debris, infront of them. If I was there, I would be looking at it and AT LEAST paying attention to the camera man. IMHO, I believe that the image of the wreckage was copy and pasted into another image of people standing on the street corner.
Does anyone know WHEN these "photos" were taken? If this was right after the incident, wouldn't everything be covered in dust.
Actually now that I look at it more carefully, the ground is wet in the photo. 9-11 occured with no clouds in sight, meaning high pressure is dominating. NORMALLY, incoming rain is announced by upper level clouds, such as cirrus type clouds. As the rain gets closer, the clouds begin to form closer to the surface. And NOT 1 CLOUD WAS IN SIGHT!

P.S. Can someone find out the first time it rained in NY AFTER 9-11-01?
Thanks.

[mattjb]

i think the evidence points clearly to dummy planes. light weight shells (in particular wings) that were designed to disintergrate on impact.

[feeler]

i think the evidence points clearly to dummy planes. light weight shells (in particular wings) that were designed to disintergrate on impact.

If your hypothesis is correct, some other means would be needed to create the wing-shape holes, such as ground-based particle beam weapons. -feeler

[samncheese]

Ok, Feeler: I apolgize for being harsh with you, before, I did a lot of research on some of the pics you put up. The problem with it wasn't the lady but it was that the landing gear kept changing positions from on photo to the next. the engines were the wrong ones for the aircraft in question and little things like that.

Thank you for pointing me in a good direction.