Universal Service for ages 18-25

[ChooseYourLifeNow]

Obama's chief of staff choice favors compulsory universal service
197 comments
November 6, 10:03 AM
by J.D. Tuccille, Civil Liberties Examiner


Rahm Emanuel
Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to force people 18 to 25
to labor for the government.
Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, President-Elect Barack Obama's choice for chief of staff in his incoming administration, is co-author of a book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America, that calls for, among other things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:

" It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ...

Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs."

Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with Barack Obama's own plan to require high school students to perform 50 hours of government-approved service, suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration.

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2008m11d6-Obamas-chief-of-staff-choice-favors-compulsory-universal-service

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Obama is going to change everything alright.......and not for the better.

[Waterman]

This idea would make a good Scot laugh, this has nothing to do with taking the high ground.

Compulsory service is immoral, unconstitutional, and not morally lawful.

[ChooseYourLifeNow]

In case you all didn't realize Rahm Emanuel is Obama's new chief of staff...

[Dean Plejaren]

More obamamania

[371]

Three months? Shiit I'd SIGN UP for that!

I don't think it should be compulsory though, if they offered some incentives and didn't require chipping or any vaccinations, etc. I'd probably sign up.

The thing that kept me from joining the military was I didn't like signing years of my life away and being trapped on some base somewhere. I like going home at the end of the day:)

[whalerider]

Obama's chief of staff choice favors compulsory universal service
197 comments
November 6, 10:03 AM
by J.D. Tuccille, Civil Liberties Examiner


Rahm Emanuel
Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to force people 18 to 25
to labor for the government.
Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, President-Elect Barack Obama's choice for chief of staff in his incoming administration, is co-author of a book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America, that calls for, among other things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:

" It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ...

Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs."

Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with Barack Obama's own plan to require high school students to perform 50 hours of government-approved service, suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration.

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2008m11d6-Obamas-chief-of-staff-choice-favors-compulsory-universal-service

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Obama is going to change everything alright.......and not for the better.

I respectively disagree with you. Isn't it the me, me, me times that have ruled our country since the '80's that most of us are hoping to change to 'us, us, us? I am old enough to remember when the United States had a Civil Defense system. I remember hearing the siren and getting under my little school desk to protect myself from the scary Russians! I am tired of fear and negativity being 'gleened' out of every new idea.

As to Civil Defense, there was a time when everyday Americans stepped up to learn how to direct and perform under times of national distress. The young people on this planet today are, for the most part, truly extraordinary and I would gladly follow their 'tutored' lead. This is not Germany in the l930's and 40's. We are creating our futures at a very fast pace and young vibrant leaders are welcome in place of the stodgy current regime. I would bet that our young people would be excited to be invited into the possibilities of making real differences and helping in any way they can.

[Dadrious]

Obama's chief of staff choice favors compulsory universal service
197 comments
November 6, 10:03 AM
by J.D. Tuccille, Civil Liberties Examiner


Rahm Emanuel
Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to force people 18 to 25
to labor for the government.
Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, President-Elect Barack Obama's choice for chief of staff in his incoming administration, is co-author of a book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America, that calls for, among other things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:

" It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ...

Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs."

Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with Barack Obama's own plan to require high school students to perform 50 hours of government-approved service, suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration.

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2008m11d6-Obamas-chief-of-staff-choice-favors-compulsory-universal-service

---------------------------------------

Obama is going to change everything alright.......and not for the better.

This isn't even the tip of the iceberg of what these creatures have in store for the last days of America.

[AndyH]

This all harks back to "rebuilding americas defenses" (PNAC), if they can't get enough from Mexico then they'll force them in.
Obama is the same old story with a different face.

Cynthia McKinney, Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich were the only genuine people I could see amongst all the nominees.
The rest were all bought and paid for a long time ago. It's just a puppet show.

[TranceAm]

Obama's chief of staff choice favors compulsory universal service
197 comments
November 6, 10:03 AM
by J.D. Tuccille, Civil Liberties Examiner


Rahm Emanuel
Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to force people 18 to 25
to labor for the government.
Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, President-Elect Barack Obama's choice for chief of staff in his incoming administration, is co-author of a book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America, that calls for, among other things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:

" It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ...

Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs."

Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with Barack Obama's own plan to require high school students to perform 50 hours of government-approved service, suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration.

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2008m11d6-Obamas-chief-of-staff-choice-favors-compulsory-universal-service

---------------------------------------

Obama is going to change everything alright.......and not for the better.

If ya can't say no to servitude, its slavery.
Even Rahm can't twist that into something "good"...
Do not ask what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country? Never mind asking, we'll make you...

" It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. "
So what did hid Buddy (Z) Biden do with the unreal Patriot Act?

Where do these people get these Ideas?

"The Hitler Jugend (or Hitler Youth) organisation was formed in 1933 as a branch of the National Socialist party (NSDAP). All other youth clubs and groups in Germany were incorporated into the HJ, and the Boy Scout movement was banned. In 1939, service in the Hitler Jugend between the ages of ten and eighteen was made compulsory."

http://cas.awm.gov.au/heraldry/REL30209

"to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ..."

Basic Training? And then fight next to the National Guard the war with <Next Enemy of the Masters> as the Hitler Jugend did at the end?

Man they drag you to the abyss, throw you into it, and while you are falling, you smile since one was made to think that it is for the good of it all... Meanwhile back at the ranch, the bag lady's can't even find food in the garbage bin of McDonalds, beside of course that they have to stand in line in front of that garbage can with people that still can afford (Barely) their housing.

I wonder if part of the training involves handling that Wolrd Peace breaks out, and no one can find a reason to fight and die for some burocrat with questionable loyalties anylonger....

[Mike_Jetson]

3 months sounds like something fun to do between college years. It doesnt sound too bad but when you consider where this message comes from is where your suspicions kick in.

Here in the UK its a fact that staff such as parking wardens have been told they may be required to help out in case of emergencies.

Obama wants a youth bridage. To me its all about getting as many people as possible into an authority position. Hypothetically a false flag emergency happens and all of the people who have been trained start their new job in keeping order. My current thoughts on it anyway

[shanonatime]

oh and did they ever cut "spending" in Philly this week.
did you see it? did you see it?
I've worked community service in philly. or what i consider community service. :-)
while i was going to college. and i have undefinable debt. so when i hear them say stuff like- community service and paying for school it just makes me want to throw up.
never mind taking care of the people that do it the real way. i hate how they'll get people on these faux plans to help people when they'll really just be training how not to help people. so sad. this is an example of a city that would really benefit from kids doing stuff for other kids. arg. makes me so sick.

[Dantheman62]

I think it wouldn't be so bad, maybe they would learn something about civil defense, instead of learning how to tap a keg, or do beer bongs. LOL!

[AndyH]

Hypothetically a false flag emergency happens and all of the people who have been trained start their new job in keeping order.

Yup, got it in one m8y.

[AndyH]

I think it wouldn't be so bad, maybe they would learn something about civil defense, instead of learning how to tap a keg, or do beer bongs. LOL!

They'd learn plenty about how to lose their humanity, become cold blooded killers, beat "islamic terrorists" with the freedom stick and other such great educational stuff.

[TranceAm]

3 months sounds like something fun to do between college years.

Yes, as long as everything is quiet on the Frontier..

The Stop Loss Policy

National Guard and Army Reserve members are also affected by the ongoing Stop Loss Policy, which allows the Pentagon to keep soldiers whose enlistment is due to expire in order to maintain troop strength and unit integrity. The restrictions bar voluntary separations and retirements for soldiers in designated units beginning 90 days before deployment until 90 days after their units return to their home stations. Specifically, "the President may suspend any provision of law relating to promotion, retirement, or separation applicable to any member of the armed forces who the President determines is essential to the national security of the United States." A Stop Loss order for National Guard and Reserve units activated for the war against terrorism has been in effect since November 2002. Army officials announced June 1 the latest Active Army Stop Loss/Stop Movement Program for active Army units preparing for deployment overseas in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom and Operation Enduring Freedom remains in effect.

A lawsuit, Doe v. Rumsfeld, was filed against the Stop Loss Policy in August of 2004 in federal court in San Francisco on behalf of an Army recruit who served nine years on active duty, most recently in Iraq. The plaintiff is currently a reservist in the California National Guard. The suit contends that the plaintiff only signed up for one year, and that the stop loss could force him "to return to Iraq for up to two years, and possible continued military service beyond that time." Some critics have referred to the Stop Loss policy as a "backdoor draft."

http://www.pbs.org/now/society/natguard.html

[Dantheman62]

They'd learn plenty about how to lose their humanity, become cold blooded killers, beat "islamic terrorists" with the freedom stick and other such great educational stuff.
Oh c'mon it's civil defense, more like community service, not military. It would do them some good.

[TranceAm]

Oh c'mon it's civil defense, more like community service, not military. It would do them some good.

There are a lot of behavior patterns from which people say that would do other people some good! Make them all mandatory?

Do them some good, is to learn to volunteer for it...
But mandatory? It is just placing another group of society under direct or indirect command of Ceasar and then at his discretion..

[371]

They'd learn plenty about how to lose their humanity, become cold blooded killers, beat "islamic terrorists" with the freedom stick and other such great educational stuff.

That's not about what civil defense is about at all. It about organizing on a local level should an emergency occur.

Could this be perverted and used for evil? Of course, but personally I think more people knowing how to orgainze and take care of themselves and their communities is a good thing.

[AndyH]

Oh c'mon it's civil defense, more like community service, not military. It would do them some good.

Community service would be visiting old folks homes and having a chat or helping out at the homless shelter.
This is just training them for what's to come, just as TranceAM said, the Hitler youth were all told the same old story too. But this is America and that sort of thing doesn't happen here.

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. It's straight out of Sun Tzu's book as far as I'm concerned.

[Dantheman62]

HaHa, the funny thing is, if it was voluntary nobody would show up!

[Dantheman62]

That's not about what civil defense is about at all. It about organizing on a local level should an emergency occur.

Could this be perverted and used for evil? Of course, but personally I think more people knowing how to orgainze and take care of themselves and their communities is a good thing.
Thank you, well said

[TranceAm]

HaHa, the funny thing is, if it was voluntary nobody would show up!

So why the stealing of lifetime (The real Wealth of people.) from one (Without paying for it.) and then redistribution of the efforts milked out of that stolen lifetime to others?

Making/enforcing a law, doesn't make it 'good".. It only makes it lawful.

There is quite a cold shill surrounding your aura Dan.
Work for the Man?

[Dantheman62]

So why the stealing of lifetime (The real Wealth of people.) from one (Without paying for it.) and then redistribution of the efforts milked out of that stolen lifetime to others?

Making/enforcing a law, doesn't make it 'good".. It only makes it lawful.

There is quite a cold shill surrounding your aura Dan.
Work for the Man?
No HaHa, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with working for the man, so to speak, but it's only 3 months and young people are soft these days, they need to get their hands dirty for their community. My aura is nice and warm and fuzzy, oh wait, that's the blanket wrapped around me. lol!

[ghglenn]

Hitler Youth?

[clarkkent]

are people seriously defending this??

even neocons and bush didnt MAKE you join, im not an obama hater but this guy Rahm is a serious pro isreal warhawk (asked by tim russert if he'd vote for the war even knowing thered be a huge loss of life and there were no weapons of mass destruction, he said "yes")

politics as usual, all administrations suck--- universal service would be one step more towrds fascism, not thanks rahm.

[Orion11]

That's not about what civil defense is about at all. It about organizing on a local level should an emergency occur.

Could this be perverted and used for evil? Of course, but personally I think more people knowing how to orgainze and take care of themselves and their communities is a good thing.

Yes,

for the most part i think it would be beneficial,
and, even if they did want to use it for malevolent reasons,..

do we think all the people would really still follow and be a part of it?

I dont.

Not the majority of them.
I dont think this is about militarizing everything,.

but, I think that if we all took a few short months to learn how to survive and help each other survive in any given circumstances, would be good.

i mean, look at how many americans really are clueless as to what to do should something really happen...
many many many of them would be absolutely lost and terrified.

if the people see it being used for the wrong reasons,
i have a bit of faith in the people that they would not go along with it.

its not like its boot camp and preparing for war, right?

in times of a struggle, which we are cleary in now,
dont we think it would be good to accept a little responsibility ? to help everyone? I dunno, but it seems worth it. unless of course i am totally off on all of this.
:wub2:

[clarkkent]

Yes,

for the most part i think it would be beneficial,
and, even if they did want to use it for malevolent reasons,..

do we think all the people would really still follow and be a part of it?

I dont.

Not the majority of them.
I dont think this is about militarizing everything,.

but, I think that if we all took a few short months to learn how to survive and help each other survive in any given circumstances, would be good.

i mean, look at how many americans really are clueless as to what to do should something really happen...
many many many of them would be absolutely lost and terrified.

if the people see it being used for the wrong reasons,
i have a bit of faith in the people that they would not go along with it.

its not like its boot camp and preparing for war, right?

:wub2:


having people learn how to use an m16 and obey orders isnt teaching them how to plant or farm or live off the land and be self sufficient, the boy scouts would do a btter job at that.

as far as "americans" being that out of touch, well newsflash; were not any worse off than any western country if disaster strikes.

if you want forced military service move to switzerland or israel

[Dantheman62]

Ah applause!, hand clapping, and more hand clapping! well said! ORION11

[clarkkent]

its not like its boot camp and preparing for war, right?

i unless of course i am totally off on all of this.
:wub2:

bootcamp is exactly what forced military service would be, if they throw in a few community service activities, so what- its still the military, its still weilding weapons of death, its still forced on you, its still learning how to follow orders.


not for me.

[Orion11]

ok, thanks,

see, perhaps i was off..

I should have familiarized myself more with it before commenting,

I shall look more in depth before saying anything else.

Thanks Dan,. Thanks Clark.

[Dantheman62]

bootcamp is exactly what forced military service would be, if they throw in a few community service activities, so what- its still the military, its still weilding weapons of death, its still forced on you, its still learning how to follow orders.


not for me.
iT'S not forced military service, it's civil defense community service, how to help communities in need

[371]

as far as "americans" being that out of touch, well newsflash; were not any worse off than any western country if disaster strikes.

The problem is many Americans have the false notion that the world owes them something.

[371]

bootcamp is exactly what forced military service would be, if they throw in a few community service activities, so what- its still the military, its still weilding weapons of death, its still forced on you, its still learning how to follow orders.


not for me.

That's why it's CIVIL and not MILITARY service. And it doesn't say anything about weapons training.

[Dantheman62]

iT'S not forced military service, it's civil defense community service, how to help communities in need
Hey Orion11, TrancAm says I have a cold shill around my aura, does it look o.k. to you?

[TranceAm]

No HaHa, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with working for the man, so to speak, but it's only 3 months and young people are soft these days, they need to get their hands dirty for their community. My aura is nice and warm and fuzzy, oh wait, that's the blanket wrapped around me. lol!

Where do you get that young people are "soft" these days?
I had just one member of my family leave for Iraq in spite of being promised to never being send there... I think with the Info at hand, it is not that intelligent, but "soft" I can't call a man that makes a decision to serve his country. And there are many like him.
Others don't go and serve, are they "soft"? Are they less "Manly"?

"They need to get their hands dirty for their community?"
Where do you get these ideas?

Where is it stated in the contract between Country and Population, that the duties of a United States Citizen is getting dirty hands for their community?
Why is that community sitting on their thumbs and not preparing for any and every thing themselves?
What about politicians not enforcing war or their ideas of "Freedom" on others, so them young clean handed people aren't forced into situations they should never be in?
What about them politicians who want to put everything on the Free Market because that could do the jobs much better? Yes it does everything much better but at a higher price then slaves that can't say no!
And it is sad, when a population has nothing else to offer to the altar of government then their children to slavelabor to get things done.. Or enforcing the cost of their spending habits on the children of their children because they couldn't say no to their government.

"Yes we can" + "Believe in Change"
It is a free country, you can believe in any and everything.
Although according to the first the Government isn't allowed to start a religion!
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, ...."

Ok, The abyss, is just after that hollow tree to the left.. Just keep going.

[Orion11]

yeah i cant find anything about weapons training...

and.. is it really learning how to "follow orders"?
or
is it
"learning how to lead each other in times of need"?

i really see nothing about military or weapons,

which of course means nothing, but...

its not really so much about doing it for 'them',

it seems more like its about each other.

and... so, say you do get training on how to do all of the above..

does that mean you would use it for the wrong reasons?

Just because someone is being taught something, does not mean they are going to use those teachings for what the teacher(s) intended, good or bad.

I could teach you how to go into the forest use your knife for survival, and how to build fires from anything..
but does that mean your going to go and use all i taught you for those reasons only?
no, you could use those skills for good or for bad.



and most people do know good from bad,
and as surprising as it may seem,

there are many more who want to do good than there are who want to do bad.

and Dan,
you Aura actually does not feel cold... lol

your vibes or your pictures Ive seen,

both have a very warm and inviting Aura from what i can tell.

when it all boils down..
Anything that happens, is up to the people.

we march as billions.

:wub2:

[ChooseYourLifeNow]

When I first read this article I thought it was outrageous. Yeah, there are a lot of young people out there who just don't have their priorities in the right place, BUT making them go to away somewhere for 3 months to be "trained" sounds like a brainwashing and indoctrination camp to me.

Not a good idea.

This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal.

[Orion11]

This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal.

that is a good point.

[Dantheman62]

When I first read this article I thought it was outrageous. Yeah, there are a lot of young people out there who just don't have their priorities in the right place, BUT making them go to away somewhere for 3 months to be "trained" sounds like a brainwashing and indoctrination camp to me.

Not a good idea.

This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal.
Yup you're right, no federal involvement would be much better I guess.

[peaceonearth]

I totally agree with you chooseyourlifenow.

[Rebel4Life]

I guess you can call this another wake up call to those obamabots. :smoke:

[recallone]

I'm a veteran.
I used to be of the mind that every young man (or woman) should join the service after finishing high school. Not any more. I personally joined when I was 17 years old. I had to grow up fast and handle the tasks that were required of me. I learned to follow orders promptly and efficiently. I learned what discipline really means. I also learned how to kill people.

Everyone who joins the service becomes acquainted with an M16, regardless of what their MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) is going to be. They make soldiers in basic training. They create an environment that is difficult, require you to stand at attention while a drill sergeant screams in your face, do push-ups till you drop and keep you in a sleep-deprived state.
The result? A stronger individual who now knows that more is always achievable. The 'stronger' I'm referring to has to do with the mind and spirit, not necessarily physical ability, although that is achieved as well.

If a force was designed to tend to the community in times of need, a large part of that training regimen would almost certainly resemble that of boot camp. The biggest thing, I think - is following orders. A lot of people simply cannot wrap their heads around the idea of following orders without questioning why. If lengthy explanations have to be issued every time orders are issued, the efficiency of the operation would be greatly compromised, whatever the mission. For these reasons, I really can't see how or even why they'd employ some kind of alternate training bereft of firearms. Especially when defense is right there in the title.

Civil Defense? When has this country ever had an occasion to defend itself against a legitimate threat? I'm not talking colonial days, here people. If you think about it, the only threat our communities have ever needed protection against were those forces that were allegedly sent in to help the community on the heels of a natural disaster. And that help came in the form of forced entry into people's homes to disarm them...with force. All the rest were just hyped up threats to keep us vibrating fear...so they could control us better.

I agree that everyone should get accustomed to hard work. Literally getting their hands dirty. Finishing a day of honest hard work and being exhausted is good for you. Whoever you are. It's good for your mind because it shows you how far you can go when you maybe thought you couldn't go any further. And it's good for your body for obvious reasons. Endorsing a plan like this is just foolish in my humble opinion. Just as they've slipped revisions to our constitutional rights by us, they're trying to slip yet another ill-intentioned plan by us. I replied in another thread to the effect of so many in-the-know people allowing themselves to slip back into hypnotic submission during the recent election proceedings - the same thing is happening here.

Sugar-coated anything seems to be good enough for most Americans.
Not this American. Not this human. Not this being of light and love that knows what a government ought to do for its' people.
Serve them. Not the other way around.

I wish you all peace.
recallone

[clarkkent]

"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.

[Myra]

Obama's chief of staff choice favors compulsory universal service
197 comments
November 6, 10:03 AM
by J.D. Tuccille, Civil Liberties Examiner


Rahm Emanuel
Rep. Rahm Emanuel wants to force people 18 to 25
to labor for the government.
Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, President-Elect Barack Obama's choice for chief of staff in his incoming administration, is co-author of a book, The Plan: Big Ideas for America, that calls for, among other things, compulsory service for all Americans ages 18 to 25. The following excerpt is from pages 61-62 of the 2006 book:

" It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ...

Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs."

Emanuel and co-author Bruce Reed insist "this is not a draft," but go on to write of young men and women, "the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service." They also warn, "[s]ome Republicans will squeal about individual freedom," ruling out any likelihood that they would let people opt out of universal citizen service.

As chief of staff, Emanuel will not be in a position to directly introduce public policy, but his enthusiasm for compulsory service, combined with Barack Obama's own plan to require high school students to perform 50 hours of government-approved service, suggest an unfortunate direction for the new administration.

http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner~y2008m11d6-Obamas-chief-of-staff-choice-favors-compulsory-universal-service

---------------------------------------

Obama is going to change everything alright.......and not for the better.

Sounds like there's a catch. Three months wouldn't end there. They would already have their Troops trained without a Draft. Sort of a National Guard thing meaning you would always be obligated after training if there were a "National Emergency".

I see a definite Red Flag with this one. :nono: I hope they don't implement this because this would be a good reason to expatriate if you have kids.

[371]

"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.


If this was an idea of the Bush administration it wouldn't change a thing for me. I think this is a good idea, as long as it's VOLUNTARY. Now I know that's not what they're saying but its a proposal and will never pass in it's current form if it ever does at all.

If it was COMPULSORY I'd totally be against it- and yeah I know that's what the proposal says. I'm defending the general civil defense training idea, not this specific proposal to clarify.

And Clark, I DO understand what you're saying. It doesn't say weapons training but it doesn't say bootcamp either. If there was a significant physical aspect to this training you can bet that a good percentage of Americans wouldn't cut it. And this isn't MILITARY training, it's CIVIL. That's what the National Guard are for.

But I think we're debating two different points so I guess it doesn't really matter.:winksmiley02:

EDIT- BTW I TOTALLY agree with ChooseYourLifeNow that:
This sort of idea should be brought about by community efforts not federal

[Orion11]

"basic training, civil defense preparation" use your common sense, just because the article doesnt state weapons, what bootcamp basic training have you heard of doesnt inclue that...you couldnt "find it"...huh?

he's sugar coating all this garbage--in israel they dont have you join the military without training in weapons etc.

its military bootcamp folks, look beyond the brainwashing language.

im really blown away people on this forum are trying to defend this just because it comes from obama's camp.

ask yourself if youd like to be FORCED to learn how to shoot weapons, truly the brainwashing in this country is all pervasive. wow.

Hey clark,

this isnt the first time you have opened my eyes,
coming from someone else i might not take it to heart so much....lol

but you are right.

thank you. :wub2:

[Operator]

Hi,

Just to be short: "Basic training ?"
Most ways to force uniformity lead to fascism ... simple as that.

Cheers

[orb]

rephrase: maybe they could be indoctrinated in only one way to handle conflict and taught to kill another person to save themselves.

It is strange that an ET would rather die then get one of us killed on our planet and carry that energy forward into the next incarnation than acutual humans will. And we do not even think they exist.

I think it wouldn't be so bad, maybe they would learn something about civil defense, instead of learning how to tap a keg, or do beer bongs. LOL!

[371]

rephrase: taught to kill another person to save themselves.

That's human nature. We are animals. Intelligent animals yes, but in times of intense crisis our animal instincts kick in.

Not everyone WOULD kill to save themselves. But I doubt anyone really would need to be taught it.

[Operator]

but in times of intense crisis our animal instincts kick in.


Bravo, you hit the nail on the head !
That's what BASIC training will do .... Program an expected reaction in certain circumstances.

Cheers

[371]

Bravo, you hit the nail on the head !
That's what BASIC training will do .... Program an expected reaction in certain circumstances.

Cheers

Classic conditioning... you're right about that.

[clarkkent]

Hey clark,

this isnt the first time you have opened my eyes,
coming from someone else i might not take it to heart so much....lol

but you are right.

thank you. :wub2:

didnt mean to be harsh, :) language can be very deceptive, i just had an argument with my roomate about this exact topic--he said "whats wrong with community service- thats great!"

and if thats all it was i certainly would agree, just like the military being stationed here in the states, they wrap it in nice language like "disaster preparedness, crowd control etc" but all you have to do is realize they always camoflauge bad things in language.

heres an excerpt from a good article

"George Orwell warned that sloppy language leads to foolish thoughts. One of the worst aspects of our discourse these days is how rarely our political language is used to express honest and clear thought. Of course, part of the fault lies with our schooling which tends to reward the complexity of thought and the use of obscure words. Indeed, there are those like William Buckley, Jr. who have incredibly large vocabularies and also take pleasure in using extremely obscure words to show how erudite they are. Yet, one must agree that the real problem with our political discourse these days is the purposeful use of words to lie and mislead. The result is a political environment that is dangerously toxic.

As George Orwell said in his excellent essay on this topic, the tendency to use unclear language can be a flaw found in any political persuasion. Humans tend to generalize and stereotype which leads to faulty conclusions. For example, it is wrong to say that the poor are lazy. While it might be true that some poor people are lazy, many of the poor work extremely hard for very little gain. Clear and precise language leads to a better understanding of reality and provides a better basis for devising policies regarding the poor. But the real danger according to Orwell comes when people purposely pervert language, because their goal is to mislead people and deny them the ability to make decisions based on accurate information.

The top strategists of the right-wing have used deceptive language in their pursuit of power for several decades. They have spent much money and energy putting together think tanks and focus groups to find ways to “sell” their message. And for years they have used language to demonize Democrats as a way to gain control of the government. Newt Gingrich even produced a booklet that recommended words to use when describing Republicans (strong, moral, citizen, protector) and how to describe their opponents. Some of the words that Gingrich recommended for describing Democrats are: bizarre, corrupt, incompetent, selfish, traitors. And after 9/11 the right-wing radicals gloated that they had won the battle for the hearts and minds of the American public. "


--now keep in mind this rahm guy is a democrat, but in politics there's very little seperation from the republicorp and the democorp, theyre all basically beholden to the same corporate interests (and esoteric ones)

(EDIT- i did look up the actual book quote and it varies slightly--SO i might have misinterpreted the data based on the wording of "basic training" AND civil defense--apparently the book doesnt quite separate "basic training" and basic CIVIL defense training--heres the excerpt "All Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 should be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic civil defense training and community service. This is not a draft — nor is it military. Young people will be trained not as soldiers, but simply as citizens who understand their responsibilities in the event of natural disaster, epidemic, or terrorist attack." so depending on which source is correct, there may or maynot be guns involved--if so , my bad -i was reacting to altered text!)

[orb]

Are we really? I mean we are thaught that right. Evolution, darwinsim, survival of the fittest. That when all civility is gone, everyone regresses just to an animalistic state for themselves, everyone, no exceptions. I hardly this that is the case.

Yet I wonder, is that because we are like that or because we have been nurtured like that. And some people say if our genes were changed millenia ago by aliens, we ceased to be human, and can't really use that excuse anymore.

Maybe the reason people regress to riots and stuff, is because for their whole life by in large they live in a false environment, where their needs are never really handled and it is all bottled up, and the only way they can feel their needs is met is by material things, so the stealing makes them feel secure to get that in times of crisis.

Not sure, we should just take the way out, we are all animals. I think we can do better.

Now for me, I don't want a gun if society breaks down. Expecially if this comes true what people say and we lose 4.5 billion people. After I bury a few thousand people, I most likley will just say buddy, if you need to kill me, take me now, I am just tired of the smell and look of death.

Maybe we need some public service to teach people how to solve conflicts with words, and to share, and to grow a garden, or to kill a few animals themselves instead of paying the butcher to do it, and realize, the white protein was once living. I can get behind that.

We are animals. Intelligent animals yes, but in times of intense crisis our animal instincts kick in.

[Operator]

Yet I wonder, is that because we are like that or because we have been nurtured like that.


Yes, right ... see my post http://projectavalon.net/forum/showpost.php?p=75233&postcount=50


I can get behind that.


So, you are still behind it ?


Maybe we need some public service to teach people how to solve conflicts with words, and to share, and to grow a garden, or to kill a few animals themselves instead of paying the butcher to do it, and realize, the white protein was once living.


Don't worry, before it is in place you will probably get the experience otherwise ... :mad3:

Cheers

[JohnWdoe]

I think its a sad day when they are telling people to "train" for biochemical attacks, i really can't believe people would fall for this but the reality of the situation is always its own.

We have the national guard for this matter and i don't see how "training" people for civil unrest and bio attacks is very constitutional...

Doesn't this honestly freak people out a bit? we have high level people coming out and stating dates on attacks, i wont mention them because everyone will finger bite to the day but seriously is this right??

They seem to be prepping us for an event to take place, but i speak in theoretical rhetoric and wish more people would understand that when reading doom and gloom.

I don't like this at all and the thought of me being yelled at by some Army official is just ludicrous... How many people would fall for this Communistic **** when need be? god i hope none.

Great thread guys your all very :thumb_yello:, Clark Kent you are on fire tonight my friend :) he,

Enjoy your night boys!

[Orion11]

[

I think its a sad day when they are telling people to "train" for biochemical attacks, i really can't believe people would fall for this but the reality of the situation is always its own.

We have the national guard for this matter and i don't see how "training" people for civil unrest and bio attacks is very constitutional...

Doesn't this honestly freak people out a bit? we have high level people coming out and stating dates on attacks, i wont mention them because everyone will finger bite to the day but seriously is this right??

They seem to be prepping us for an event to take place, but i speak in theoretical rhetoric and wish more people would understand that when reading doom and gloom.



I don't like this at all and the thought of me being yelled at by some Army official is just ludicrous... How many people would fall for this Communistic **** when need be? god i hope none.

Great thread guys your all very :thumb_yello:, Clark Kent you are on fire tonight my friend :) he,

Enjoy your night boys!

true that bro, tru dat. lol :thumb_yello:
:wub2::original:

[JohnWdoe]

[



true that bro, tru dat. lol :thumb_yello:
:wub2::original:

haha :) Hope all is well Orion your a hell of a guy, enjoy a nice cup of joe :cup: don't worry i didn't use any artificial sweetener haha :tongue2:

[Operator]

We have the national guard for this matter and i don't see how "training" people for civil unrest and bio attacks is very constitutional...


Hi John,

Now this is the other side to be avoided. Better not assume somebody else is taking care of it for you.
That's why it is a mess now anyway (IMHO).

I am against that authorities force you to learn what THEY want you to learn.
However you should learn ! But take your own responsibility ....

I don't like gloom/doom predictions either ... but thinking that everything will be smooth for the coming year is naive.
So learn and taking precautions IS a wise thing to do. I sincerely hope that many people keep their balance and know
what to do when TSHTF.

Cheers

[JohnWdoe]

Hi John,

Now this is the other side to be avoided. Better not assume somebody else is taking care of it for you.
That's why it is a mess now anyway (IMHO).

I am against that authorities force you to learn what THEY want you to learn.
However you should learn ! But take your own responsibility ....

I don't like gloom/doom predictions either ... but thinking that everything will be smooth for the coming year is naive.
So learn and taking precautions IS a wise thing to do. I sincerely hope that many people keep their balance and know
what to do when TSHTF.

Cheers

Oh yes i understand that, but i live in a small town with 4000 people in the middle of no where, so i don't see any value to arming myself, none at all.

We have alot of farmers here and i have enough meat in my freezer to last me a good while, around here food is plentiful and veggies are just so great and fresh.

If panic did strike my town i would walk out and calm them all as best as i could, in a time of crisis i will always do my best do help and bring people back to the place they call calmness. I love people and its my duty as human (not a civilian) to help and give people what i always seek - peace.

Do unto others as they would do unto you, so classic yet so true.

[Operator]

Oh yes i understand that, but i live in a small town with 4000 people in the middle of no where, so i don't see any value to arming myself, none at all.


Hi John,

I didn't mention 'arms' ....
But if I would have it would have said .... arm yourself with knowledge. :lmao:

Cheers

[davefla73]

Hitler Youth?

i was about to say the same thing! but the where in better shape then ours are lol.:naughty:

[minimeister]

I haven't heard anyone bring up yet that the proposed volunteer force is a remade perversion of the constitutional militia. Remade because the stated purpose of the Obama squad is exactly what the original intent of the militia was. Perverted because while the constitutional militia promotes true community strength and independence the new initiative is designed to enslave. Otherwise why would they not use the original mechanism?:laser::laser:

[Jenny]

As all Obama and/or political threads go to Off Topic, this one is moved to Off Topic as well.

:original:

[Ali Quadir]

This idea would make a good Scot laugh, this has nothing to do with taking the high ground.

Compulsory service is immoral, unconstitutional, and not morally lawful.

And on the other hand most countries when they draft you it is to teach you to handle guns and explosives. With bald men screaming obscenities at you. Which incidentally also happens to be a place where long term friendships are formed between different levels of society. Where people are taught to be "do'ers". That pulls so many out of a negative spiral. I'm against the draft. I was from a group that had the choice. They were interested in me I told them and have always told that if it were something without the inherent violence I'd do it.

I agree that this should not be compulsory. It should be something that people choose to do with all the positive things the army has to offer. If only half the population would do it for a few months then that would give so many benefits. Not only to getting the nation in prime condition. But also to be a rite of passage like service has always been. It can end up giving more than it takes.

If my country had offered me this possibility I would have taken it.

But I repeat, this should not be compulsory. If it is I agree with the sentiment here that it will eventually change into something far more sinister.