Jeff Rense and Holocaust Denial

[realitydesign]

Hello all!

Glad to be here, thanks for setting this up!

Quick question that I have been stuck on lately. I notice project camelot refers to Jeff Rense a lot. And I understand Jeff is on the cutting edge with stuff.

But: what's up with him linking up to holocaust denial type articles and info?

I mean- I'm a huge conspiracy buff- but Holocaust denial?

Can anyone help explain this to me.

[CosmicFever]

You must have hit the same page I did. This Holocaust denial thing has really bothered me. It was just too over the top for my taste. Almost like this sacred thing you don't mess with. However, being the open minded truth seeker I am I started looking into it. There are some very compelling facts that one just can't brush aside. War is war and lots of people die in wars. Innocent civilians comprise a huge number of those casualties. Did 6 million Jews die at the hand of Hitler's Nazi party? You have to decide. My advice would be to do some research. Look at Jewish population charts of Europe before, during and after the war. I would start there. You may also want to look into Zionism and the role it plays.
peace,
Julie

[milk and honey]

There are no shortcuts to knowledge. Any subject of interest has to be researched for ourselves so that we can judge the value of each article and book. Otherwise we're just getting sound-bites through the filters of others, which have their place as far as it goes. Rense is no different to official sources on that score. Trust neither absolutely and look into it for yourself. When the tone of debate deteriorates into accusations of "denier" as it has with both the holocaust and the global warming issues then something is wrong with the argument itself. If a position can't stand on it's factual merit without hurling labels at the antagonist -- "denier" -- then maybe it is a subject worthy of attention. You must admit, it's an unfair way to demolish an opponent because no argument is required. "Denier!"... end of story. Case closed. Take him away.

[BPhill]

All I can say is that if it bothers you, go do your own research and come to your own conclusions. Do it objectively, take into account the views that are counter to yours and then balance out the final result.

[CosmicFever]

I wanted to add one more thing. It has always bothered me that 6 million Jews are murdered (not counting the mentally handicap, the gays, etc.) and only a little over 100 people are convicted of these crimes. That's insane. Plus, under Project Paperclip, we brought most of these murderous Nazis to America to help us with our weapons program. There's alot to this story that would take volumes to explain.
peace,
Julie

[yettyn]

stumbled across this treed and haven't done any extra research on my own, not knowing exactly what Rense claims etc. But at least to me, in this issue what matters isn't so much the amounts of jews killed like we all know how it is with figures and propaganda. With 9/11 it long time was talked about 10's of thousands while it in the end came down to 2000+ something.

Anyhow, to me the holocaust is merely about the concentration camps, and I have visited some of them myself and have no doubt in their existence. With all that is going on right now I don't feel I have the time to look deeper into it now, but it would be good if anyone can say weather Rense deny their existence or not?

[Heretic]

Holocaust Denial is a very risky subject for obvious reasons

There is a good description at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial) that will fill you in.

In doing my research on this, I found that there are two factions involved with this phenomenon. The Jewish Conspiracy group who are at odds with Jewish ideals and their peoples, and History Revisionist who just want to know the truth, and feel that they have not gotten it from the current model.

Many eyebrows have been raised because of the laws in many countries that punish holocaust denial with imprisonment, and Israel has stated it wants extradition privileges worldwide on this. Unfortunately I think this brought more attention to the subject more than any researcher who thinks truth fears no investigation.

I personally dont know what to think of it all. All I know is countless people suffered at the hands of war and science. I can see the desecration of opening it all back up to question it.

that and it is a big fat can of worms probably left unopened

HAH!

Edit: Just wanted to add that just as Bill & Kerry have used their pull to help Gary McKinnon, so did Rense in trying to help a man Ernest Zundle (sp) with his trial and extradition to Germany over the crime of Holocaust Denial. This is probably where Rense got associated with HD in the first place, but that was a while back and I am not 100% on this.

[Hiram]

When you control a people's history, you control a people.

Its of vital importance to many that the current interpretation of historical events does not change.

Its also of vital importance to some to revise history to fit their model.

The truth is there are as many histories as there are people. It depends on who you ask. Traditionally a good way to research what really happened in the past was to look to the writings of the losers, the downtrodden, as they often were not trying to justify their diminished state...so you figure more honesty there.

Recently this model has ceased to work because some have decided its in their best interest to perpetuate their dowtrodden status. Not that they never were downtrodden...just that its offensive to some when the person on the top of the pile is still complaining about how victimized they are.

In all honesty though, we are all victims and we are all persecuters.

All are responsible for All.

When we begin to realize this we will start to write a whole new history.

[voltron]

I think the reason Jeff Rense was attacked is his reports on Barack Obama.
Not his anti Zionist views.

[lohiaaditya]

Hi,

I have not read the post to are talking about on Jeff Rense. But I have read Mein Kamph, and I believe an autobiography can tell you a whole lot more than any other book. From what I gathered I fonud Hitler to be a highly intelligent man and way ahead of his generation of thinking. I think he was determined to save the German people from the hands of the corrupt Jews at the 'top' (important). Being highly intelligent and capable he got his way, unfortunately he did achieve his objective maybe partially but he went about it the wrong way. That ended up killing a lot of innocent people. But I think any us of us if that intelligent are capable of doing the same. If you read his book he says when he was young he did not even know what Jew was. And I dont see any reason why he would lie.
I think its just a case of a man wanting to do right who chose the wrong path to do that. Not everyone is a Gandhi. But I'd like you to read a quote from his book ' But a Jew can never be rescued from his fixed notions.

I was then simple enough to attempt to show them the absurdity of their teaching. Within my small circle I talked to them until my throat ached and my voice grew hoarse. I believed that I could finally convince them of the danger inherent in the Marxist follies. But I only achieved the contrary result. It seemed to me that immediately the disastrous effects of the Marxist Theory and its application in practice became evident, the stronger became their obstinacy'

This I felt was indeed interesting. I will leave it upto you to draw conclusions. I am not an anti- semite but I believe that there is some grain of truth in what Hitlers intentions were.

[Phtha]

When we begin to realize this we will start to write a whole new history.

Yes, history and the past are two very different things. It's even called "History", or "His Story". History is just that, a story. Everything is hidden right in front of us.

[Zelphael]

I will echo what others say in that doing your own research and coming to your own conclusions is the most important thing here.

Especially population numbers of Jews in Europe. I believe from what I have read that the 6 mil. figure is far overstated.

I also think it's ridiculous for Israel to want worldwide extradition for holocaust deniers... what!? That is insane!

Last note: anti-semiticism is, as has been said above, a seriously disabling, crippling thing to be branded with. If people are told or believe you have something against the Jewish people (which is the intention of being labeled such a slanderous thing), they will shut down real quick to anything to have to say.
Remember, Jewish people are in bondage too, just as we are. Very few of them actually know much of their people's history and leadership.

[clayman]

You must have hit the same page I did. This Holocaust denial thing has really bothered me. It was just too over the top for my taste. Almost like this sacred thing you don't mess with. However, being the open minded truth seeker I am I started looking into it. There are some very compelling facts that one just can't brush aside. War is war and lots of people die in wars. Innocent civilians comprise a huge number of those casualties. Did 6 million Jews die at the hand of Hitler's Nazi party? You have to decide. My advice would be to do some research. Look at Jewish population charts of Europe before, during and after the war. I would start there. You may also want to look into Zionism and the role it plays.
peace,
Julie

I dont want to go of topic here, but more people died back in those days, not only the jews. I talking of course about all those people who joined hitler and actually supported him, those people died inside. A person with "common sence" or a person with "intuition" would never support hitler.

Please think about the definition of death. To me the worst kind of casualty is the one where you are basiclly dead inside and you dont know it. Someone said once "dead at 18 and buried at 69"..
A dead body is just that, but dead inside and still walking the planet and such people indirectlly "working against truth without knowing it" and "without seeking truth" is what made me start smoking again :)
peace

[historycircus]

The holocaust is an area that I have done extensive reading in, and have had the pleasure of knowing two camp survivors. There is no question in my mind that the Holocaust was real. Denials of its truth, however, are only natural given the horrifying realities presented to us by the Zionist movment. It is only natural for one to look at the present day state of Israel and all of its geopolitical import, realize that indeed there is something very wrong, and then ask oneself, "are there other lies, untruths, and outright manipulation to further the Zionist agenda?" Upstreaming, as the anthropological community would call it, will lead to a reconsideration of the Holocaust. There are those who will allow the evidence to shape their opinions, and there are those who will always put the cart before the horse. Unfortunately, there is a good amount of racism - a constructed form of social division handed down to us by our forbears - injected into these debates. We must never forget that in Israel, like the United States, Western Europe, Saudia Arabia, etc., that domestic and international decisions are made by a small select few, while the people are drugged and tugged in the same direction, and often become targets of persecution for any act of discontent. The reality of the Holocaust is necessary for my own assessment of modern Israel: the abused becomes the abuser.

Anti-Zionist sentiment does not necessitate denying the reality of the Holocaust, as anti-Israel sentiment should not automatically be construed as anti-semitism. Those who deny the Holocaust, however, should be given a platform in a free society, and Jeff Rense should be applauded for giving them the opportunity to express their views, however flawed and incorrect they may be.

[realitydesign]

The holocaust is an area that I have done extensive reading in, and have had the pleasure of knowing two camp survivors. There is no question in my mind that the Holocaust was real. Denials of its truth, however, are only natural given the horrifying realities presented to us by the Zionist movment. It is only natural for one to look at the present day state of Israel and all of its geopolitical import, realize that indeed there is something very wrong, and then ask oneself, "are there other lies, untruths, and outright manipulation to further the Zionist agenda?" Upstreaming, as the anthropological community would call it, will lead to a reconsideration of the Holocaust. There are those who will allow the evidence to shape their opinions, and there are those who will always put the cart before the horse. Unfortunately, there is a good amount of racism - a constructed form of social division handed down to us by our forbears - injected into these debates. We must never forget that in Israel, like the United States, Western Europe, Saudia Arabia, etc., that domestic and international decisions are made by a small select few, while the people are drugged and tugged in the same direction, and often become targets of persecution for any act of discontent. The reality of the Holocaust is necessary for my own assessment of modern Israel: the abused becomes the abuser.

Anti-Zionist sentiment does not necessitate denying the reality of the Holocaust, as anti-Israel sentiment should not automatically be construed as anti-semitism. Those who deny the Holocaust, however, should be given a platform in a free society, and Jeff Rense should be applauded for giving them the opportunity to express their views, however flawed and incorrect they may be.


Nice summary of what I believe to be the case. I just couldn't figure out why Jeff wanted to link up to denial literature as it could be seen as discrediting him on a more macro level- since there is such an immense abundance of holocaust evidence. But I guess ultimately you are right- it is a good thing that he offers a platform for it - as insensitive and grim as it may be.



Wasn't it Voltaire who said- 'I disagree with what you say but will defend unto the death, your right to say it.'

[punter2003]

interesting thread. Many peoples were murdered by hitler and STALIN even before the official date of the war. It was not only jews but any gypsy population. I think that the most telling fact is that the german population accept it as fact and that in german schools there is a gap of about 30 years in history lessons.

[goody8504]

this is exactly why jeff rense's website demands so much respect. it seems far-fetched. but this alone will not stop a person of the quality of jeff rense. he will post anything as long as there is substance to the article. i have never researched the holocaust. all i have to go by is the textbooks that i read in school, which of course was written by the winners. everybody knows the winners write the history books. my point is this...jeff rense does not stray from articles that contradict "common knowledge". common knowledge, it seems, is really lacking these days

[mntruthseeker]

Yes, Jeff is a truly amazing person. just a few months ago I would be hissing - traitor to Jeff. Nothing surprises me now.

Of course, I was raised Roman Catholic and spent first 9 years in Parochial school. Not a total loss as I did learn to respect others, sort of. I never quite got the part about the one true religion and that was all I could associate with. I guess I was even a rebel then. I talked to Jews, Lutherans, you name it.

The nuns would have me drowning in holy water if they seen me now. I can't believe how "awake" I have become just by visiting Project Camelot, David Icke, Globalresearch and RBTnew. Of course I have to include Jeff which I just started reading from the remarks made in Camelot.

All the videos and information from these sites have meant so much as I always knew there was more to my life. It's been a real eye opener

I had to find it in three places that the holocaust is not what we have known before I got angry. So it's no surprise the world hates us so much. I now know that all the wars were so much and then some.

Jeff gets bounched around as much as Larry Sinclair.


I want all of you to know I appreciate all that you have done and put your life on the line for getting the true facts out there

You're all admired and thought of as real heroes. Since your site has opened more people have stepped forward which is truly amazing. thank you thank you!

What we are dealing with will cost all of our lifes now if people like you do step forward.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart


Love Peace & Light to all

Vickie

[mntruthseeker]

Holocaust is exactly as Jeff descrives it. The best place to start is David Icke. If you think Jeff knocked you for a loop, wait til you read David.

He has many many video's and the first time my son tried to get me into David, I told him, you're nuts.

Not any more. Once you check out his video's and research on these you will be so amazed.

This is what we need to get out and yes, we are running out of time.


You whole life will change and you will be right there with us trying to figure out why we never GOT IT before.

Good luck with your researching

[Hiram]

I dont want to go of topic here, but more people died back in those days, not only the jews. I talking of course about all those people who joined hitler and actually supported him, those people died inside. A person with "common sence" or a person with "intuition" would never support hitler.

Please think about the definition of death. To me the worst kind of casualty is the one where you are basiclly dead inside and you dont know it. Someone said once "dead at 18 and buried at 69"..
A dead body is just that, but dead inside and still walking the planet and such people indirectlly "working against truth without knowing it" and "without seeking truth" is what made me start smoking again :)
peace

Many sociologists would tell you my young friend, that the people who say "I would have never supported Hitler!" in actuality would have been the first ones to support him.

We should never underestimate our innate desires to belong, to be a part of something larger than ourselves and to be swept up in the Zeitgeist (yes this was a word before the movie came out). It happens...and we are all vulnerable.

The best way to protect yourself against such a course, is to admit your fallibility....admit your weakness...examine it...expose and express it to others, and eventually it loses all the power it gained from DENIAL.

[clayman]

Many sociologists would tell you my young friend, that the people who say "I would have never supported Hitler!" in actuality would have been the first ones to support him.

We should never underestimate our innate desires to belong, to be a part of something larger than ourselves and to be swept up in the Zeitgeist (yes this was a word before the movie came out). It happens...and we are all vulnerable.

The best way to protect yourself against such a course, is to admit your fallibility....admit your weakness...examine it...expose and express it to others, and eventually it loses all the power it gained from DENIAL.

I hear you man. I can easy say i would never have supported hitler, how do I know that? Whell.. If i recognize myself as a human beeing, which i am, then I also have to respect the fact that i have issues to. I do want to belong, thats why I ended up here on the forum =)

I mean, i could never follow a leader that wants to kill of a large part of the population for any reasons.. Maybe we are a little smarter today, I dont know.
Because if im supporting something that overrides somebodys free will and freedom, thats when I have no right to my own free will or freedom.

Anyways, my point was that the biggest casualty was the people that joined hitler, thats what made it all happen.
I may be "young and naive" but hey.. =)
Peace

[atom.Man]

"deniers" and "revisionists" are the two titles i'm familiar with. i'm not sure they are different, but i believe they are.

as someone already said, history is written by the winners. personally i do not deny the holocaust happened, but i do tend to doubt the numbers quoted and various other details i've found evidence which suggests the total number of Jews (discounting all the other people murdered) is closer to 1.5 million, not 6. a visit to the Red Cross website will confirm this, though this was not the only source.

i do know this: anyone that researches this subject and disagrees with significant parts of the "official story" is very likely to be labeled an anti-semitic and pounced upon by Nazi-like people from the JDL for doing little more than asking questions. i have read some of what these people have written, including their threats, and there is no doubt that some of these people act no differently than the Nazi's did.

here are some of the links i used in the very brief research i did:

http://judicial-inc.biz/Auschwitz.htm
http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04h_Cole.html
http://www.revisionists.com/
http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holocaust.htm

David Cole is a particularly interesting individual. he's a Jew who traveled to Germany and made a documentary about Auschwitz. it is said he came under harsh criticism by the JDL and may have had his life (or the lives of family members) threatened. he later recanted earlier statements he made regarding the holocaust.

i will also add: do NOT make the mistake of accepting anything at face value. do your homework and decide for yourself.

[JohnWdoe]

I was SHOCKED to find out about the "gas chambers" in auschwitz had shambly doors and had rare if NO traces of zkylon b.

MANY people don't know of the lice epidemic in Germany during WW2 and if you do some digging you will find the gas was in fact used to clean the lice. I wouldent say people were not gased but in the droves were they gased? hell no!! They have so many contradicitons its just amazing, one says "they gased for days", when we did the tests in Auschwitz we found ten times the amount of gas used in the CLEANING room, why the cleaning room? to remove the lice! Since we know this know we tested the gas chambers and sure enough it does not make count, by the numbers of dead their should be much residue of use of the gas detectable (in the cleaning room it is HIGH) so now we have to come to the fact that based on how much gas was used in that room there was no residue, i think it works out to keeping the gas moving for only 30 minutes everyday to gas 1000 POWS, now you read the records and they tell us they were jamming them into rooms and gasing them over DAYS! IMPOSSIBLE and science does not lie here, it is not biased nor can be swayed - only people.

This is a big thing to some people but to explain it to you would take me weeks because its just TO big and the cause&effect are insanly large.

[atama]

"deniers" and "revisionists" are the two titles i'm familiar with. i'm not sure they are different, but i believe they are.

as someone already said, history is written by the winners. personally i do not deny the holocaust happened, but i do tend to doubt the numbers quoted and various other details i've found evidence which suggests the total number of Jews (discounting all the other people murdered) is closer to 1.5 million, not 6. a visit to the Red Cross website will confirm this, though this was not the only source.

i do know this: anyone that researches this subject and disagrees with significant parts of the "official story" is very likely to be labeled an anti-semitic and pounced upon by Nazi-like people from the JDL for doing little more than asking questions. i have read some of what these people have written, including their threats, and there is no doubt that some of these people act no differently than the Nazi's did.

here are some of the links i used in the very brief research i did:

http://judicial-inc.biz/Auschwitz.htm
http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04h_Cole.html
http://www.revisionists.com/
http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holocaust.htm

David Cole is a particularly interesting individual. he's a Jew who traveled to Germany and made a documentary about Auschwitz. it is said he came under harsh criticism by the JDL and may have had his life (or the lives of family members) threatened. he later recanted earlier statements he made regarding the holocaust.

i will also add: do NOT make the mistake of accepting anything at face value. do your homework and decide for yourself.



right on

[seeing clearly]

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/welcome.html


Quote of the Week:

"Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
They are people of bad race and lineage;
out of their countenances peer the hangman and the sleuth-hound."
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900),
German philosopher. From: Thus Spake Zarathustra.


In politics and history - two disciplines linked closely by cause-and-effect relationships - there is a mainstream school of thought which is shaped and guided by vested interests such as, for example, lobby groups and the behind-the-scenes forces whose purpose they serve. In either discipline - or in any other subject, for that matter - an incomplete understanding of more than just the officially sanctioned side prevents one from making the correct decisions and drawing informed conclusions.
Obviously, where a mainstream school of thought is useful to an Establishment, any non-mainstream views are detrimental to those who benefit from the status quo. From this perspective, people who would rather think for themselves, and/or who have something to say that does not support these mainstream views, are undesirable - and all too often are silenced. We at The Scriptorium believe that this is classically evident in publishing, education and any other endeavor related to the presentation of history to the "consumer public", and that a distinct pattern of stressing one side while distorting and hushing-up the other has become standard practice with regard to the fairly recent history of Germany and of the Second World War in particular. After all, when was the last time you or your children heard about crimes committed by Nazi Germany, and when was the last time you saw a book about the Holocaust on your local bookstore shelf? We're willing to bet that it wasn't very long ago. In contrast, when was the last time your public education system taught about the expulsion, butchery and mass murder committed against the German women, children and civilians in the Sudetenland or the Banat, and when was the last time you saw a movie or TV program about life and death in the American post-War(!) concentration camps along the Rhine and elsewhere? What about the Valentine's Day cremation of the undefended hospital city Dresden by the British and Americans? What's that you say - you've never even heard of these things? Well, that's our point exactly.

For our efforts towards making these things public, we have been accused of "racism", "Holocaust denial", "re-writing history", "hatemongering", "stretching the limits of free speech", and the list goes on. Yet how is it "racism" or "hate" to point out that ethnic Germans were at the receiving end of unspeakable brutalities in Czechoslovakia, Poland, Yugoslavia, and other nations? If anything, that shows "racism" and "hate" directed at us! Do we advocate criminal retaliation for these crimes? Never! All we want is for these facts to be acknowledged! - How is it "denial" to point out, for example, that some early 20th-century British writers, statesmen etc. had good things to say about Hitler and the Third Reich, or to show that Germans too were victims of genocides and atrocities? Saying that "ABC happened" does not equal or even imply that "XYZ did not happen". - And how is it "re-writing history" to point out uncomfortable historical facts such as "ABC" that can be verified elsewhere by anyone who cares to take the time and to go to the extra effort to look beyond his standard-issue schoolbooks? Do the "limits of free speech" exclude the accounts of certain victims because they happen to be German? Excuse us for saying so, but isn't that exactly what's called... um... "racism" and "hatemongering"?

Corroborating information about all we publish on this site this exists aplenty, but on the whole it is not openly accessible, and for good reason. The Establishment that benefits from the public ignorance about these matters takes great care to keep it from trickling into public awareness, as such a trickle might start a flood that could wash the foundations out from under it. More often than not, it takes idealists who have resisted the lure of the Big Money to be made in the mainstream media, to publish this forgotten history for the sake of a truthful and balanced world view, and for the sake of doing justice to the memory of the forgotten victims whose suffering was no less real than that of those who enjoy a forum in the mainstream spotlight.

We at The Scriptorium are proud to do our part by making some of this information publicly available via the Internet. Our online archive is intended as a resource for honest and introspective minds who prefer to leave the mainstream of the masses in favor of calmer waters where they can come to their own conclusions and understanding.

Since June 2005, in an unintended proof of the author Oliver Hassencamp's statement that "a lack of rational arguments usually results in a ban", the Federal German censorship authority "Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien" ("Federal Office for the Investigation of Youth-Endangering Media") has been trying to force us to censor our Archive. The historical books etc. in our Archive, which shed a clearly undesirable positive light on German history, are liable - so the BPjM evidently fears - to negatively influence young Germans in their normal development into well-informed and morally balanced citizens of the Federal Republic... (On the other hand, sites that incite to hatred against Germany and the German people are not, of course, deemed to be similarly "youth-endangering"; at least, we know of no such case of censorship ordered by the Federal Republic.)

We are law-abiding citizens and always ready to co-operate with the authorities, but even our willingness to co-operate ends when this courtesy is expected to proceed only from us. After having shown the BPjM every conceivable co-operation (while this organ of the modern German Inquisition did not even see fit to confirm receipt of registered letters, much less to reply to our eMail inquiries for information), we shall no longer accord this Federal German censorship office greater authority than it actually has. Our American-hosted web site is not under Federal German jurisdiction and thus also not subject to the Federal German censorship mania; the Archive and its historical documents, which violate no North American law, is thus fully accessible again - even for Germans.

It is well known that a ban only makes the banned thing even more interesting; and accordingly, many web site visitors have already told us that this official attempt at censorship has only increased their interest in what we have to say. - Are you one of these freethinkers as well? Are you tired of having the same old black-and-white view of history shoved down your throat day in and day out by the Establishment whose vested interests it appeals to? A prejudiced view of history that more often than not tramples our German history into the dirt and resorts to falsification and suppression of information in order to defame our fathers and grandfathers as criminals - lock, stock and barrel? Would you too prefer to trade the politically correct disinformation that the Establishment and its mainstream media are spoonfeeding you, for information that looks beyond totalitarian taboos and simplistic pre-set thought patterns? Do you wish to exercise what should be every mature citizen's right, namely to inform yourself of the many shades of grey that are so generally suppressed, and to draw your own conclusions from them?




The following pages
offer you the opportunity to do so!

The information we present here on our WebSite is intended to give a glimpse of that little-known "other side of the coin". Voices that are all too often stifled and hushed up elsewhere - here they shall be heard! Uncomfortable and controversial information that does not fit the mold of politically correct agenda-history, and which for that reason is to remain safely in an Orwellian memory-hole - we sweep it out from under the carpet!



.................................................. .........................



proceed as you will...

TRUTH must be told.


s


~

[seeing clearly]

Holocaust Controversy


Ever-Diminishing Official Numbers Of Auschwitz Dead
1948 - Allies Found That No Camp Inmates Were Gassed
The Evacuation of Auschwitz
Letter From An American Jew
World Famous Prof Questions The Holocaust
The Detail
Auschwitz Museum Director Reveals 'Gas Chamber' Hoax
Auschwitz - The Final Count
Auschwitz - Myths And Facts
Top French Magazine Acknowledges Auschwitz Gas Chamber Fraud
'Holocaust Denial' Laws Are Disgraceful
A Factual Appraisal Of The Holocaust By The Red Cross
Jews Not The Only Ones Persecuted In WWII


http://rense.com/Datapages/holodat.htm


~

[Mike_Jetson]

I generally dont bring it up much but had this discussion with my mother. She loves documentaries and obviously over the years has seen so so many nazi docs and she wouldnt entertain the fact that the numbers of official dead jews have been dropping.

As I have massive interest in the wars, symbols, beliefs of nazis etc there does seem to be a lot of evidence that the Zionists not only created the term 'holocaust' but greatly exaggerated the deaths. Some sources even say that we bombed certain places to deliberately stop food getting to the camps, hence starvation. I obviously have not made my mind up about the gassing and alleged furnaces (or this whole subject in general)but im pleased we can consider it here as it is a somewhat frowned upon subject

[capricorn rising]

Big deal...it bothers you. If you do a little research you'll find it was a lie just like most everything else. Hundreds of thousands DID die...but that is no where close to 6 million.

[Hiram]

"I mean, i could never follow a leader that wants to kill of a large part of the population for any reasons.. Maybe we are a little smarter today, I dont know.
Because if im supporting something that overrides somebodys free will and freedom, thats when I have no right to my own free will or freedom."--Clayman



I don't think you are young or naive, but you do need to understand that when a population decides to go along with some action proposed by the government it is usually out of a sense of defense.

In Germany they were told that thier families were threatened, that communist Jews were around every corner and that thier was a conspiracy to committ Genocide against Germany and all non-Jews or Goyim.

They joined the bandwagon to arrest and detain the threat. This was a natural reaction...and believe me, it could easily happen in ANY country that had been conditioned for years to belive they were being intentionally persecuted. (yes the Germans thought they were persecuted)

Most Germans did not know of the Death-camps, or did not know until it was too late.

So you are right my friend, we do have to be vigilant against any force which inposes itself on others Free-will. But my point is we can never underestimate the power of FEAR and the propensity of those in power to exploit it for nefarious goals. Indeed, the Holocaust, despite the details is history's greatest lesson of this fact.

The germans were not "evil people". They were regular men and women and neighbors who's actions had been perverted and twisted by fear. Remember this.

[seeing clearly]

why not do some investigating for yourself ??





http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/welcome.html


Quote of the Week:

"Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
They are people of bad race and lineage; out of their countenances peer
the hangman and the sleuth-hound."

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900),

German philosopher.
From: Thus Spake Zarathustra.




In politics and history - two disciplines linked closely by cause-and-effect relationships - there is a mainstream school of thought which is shaped and guided by vested interests such as, for example, lobby groups and the behind-the-scenes forces whose purpose they serve. In either discipline - or in any other subject, for that matter - an incomplete understanding of more than just the officially sanctioned side prevents one from making the correct decisions and drawing informed conclusions.

Obviously, where a mainstream school of thought is useful to an Establishment, any non-mainstream views are detrimental to those who benefit from the status quo.


From this perspective, people who would rather think for themselves, and/or who have something to say that does not support these mainstream views, are undesirable - and all too often are silenced.


We at The Scriptorium believe that this is classically evident in publishing, education and any other endeavor related to the presentation of history to the "consumer public", and that a distinct pattern of stressing one side while distorting and hushing-up the other has become standard practice with regard to the fairly recent history of Germany and of the Second World War in particular.


After all, when was the last time you or your children heard about crimes committed by Nazi Germany, and when was the last time you saw a book about the Holocaust on your local bookstore shelf?


We're willing to bet that it wasn't very long ago.


In contrast, when was the last time your public education system taught about the expulsion, butchery and mass murder committed against the German women, children and civilians in the Sudetenland or the Banat, and when was the last time you saw a movie or TV program about life and death in the American post-War(!) concentration camps along the Rhine and elsewhere?

What about the Valentine's Day cremation of the undefended hospital city Dresden by the British and Americans?

What's that you say - you've never even heard of these things?

Well, that's our point exactly.

For our efforts towards making these things public, we have been accused of "racism", "Holocaust denial", "re-writing history", "hatemongering", "stretching the limits of free speech", and the list goes on.


Yet how is it "racism" or "hate" to point out that ethnic Germans were at the receiving end of unspeakable brutalities in Czechoslovakia, Poland, Yugoslavia, and other nations?



If anything, that shows "racism" and "hate" directed at us!

Do we advocate criminal retaliation for these crimes?
Never!

All we want is for these facts to be acknowledged!


- How is it "denial" to point out, for example, that some early 20th-century British writers, statesmen etc. had good things to say about Hitler and the Third Reich, or to show that Germans too were victims of genocides and atrocities?


Saying that "ABC happened" does not equal or even imply that "XYZ did not happen".

- And how is it "re-writing history" to point out uncomfortable historical facts such as "ABC" that can be verified elsewhere by anyone who cares to take the time and to go to the extra effort to look beyond his standard-issue schoolbooks?


Do the "limits of free speech" exclude the accounts of certain victims because they happen to be German?


Excuse us for saying so, but isn't that exactly what's called... um... "racism" and "hatemongering"?


Corroborating information about all we publish on this site this exists aplenty, but on the whole it is not openly accessible, and for good reason.

The Establishment that benefits from the public ignorance about these matters takes great care to keep it from trickling into public awareness, as such a trickle might start a flood that could wash the foundations out from under it.



More often than not, it takes idealists who have resisted the lure of the Big Money to be made in the mainstream media, to publish this forgotten history for the sake of a truthful and balanced world view, and for the sake of doing justice to the memory of the forgotten victims whose suffering was no less real than that of those who enjoy a forum in the mainstream spotlight.


We at The Scriptorium are proud to do our part by making some of this information publicly available via the Internet.

Our online archive is intended as a resource for honest and introspective minds who prefer to leave the mainstream of the masses in favor of calmer waters where they can come to their own conclusions and understanding.


Since June 2005, in an unintended proof of the author Oliver Hassencamp's statement that "a lack of rational arguments usually results in a ban", the Federal German censorship authority "Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien" ("Federal Office for the Investigation of Youth-Endangering Media") has been trying to force us to censor our Archive.


The historical books etc. in our Archive, which shed a clearly undesirable positive light on German history, are liable - so the BPjM evidently fears - to negatively influence young Germans in their normal development into well-informed and morally balanced citizens of the Federal Republic...


(On the other hand, sites that incite to hatred against Germany and the German people are not, of course, deemed to be similarly "youth-endangering"; at least, we know of no such case of censorship ordered by the Federal Republic.)



We are law-abiding citizens and always ready to co-operate with the authorities, but even our willingness to co-operate ends when this courtesy is expected to proceed only from us.

After having shown the BPjM every conceivable co-operation (while this organ of the modern German Inquisition did not even see fit to confirm receipt of registered letters, much less to reply to our eMail inquiries for information), we shall no longer accord this Federal German censorship office greater authority than it actually has. Our American-hosted web site is not under Federal German jurisdiction and thus also not subject to the Federal German censorship mania; the Archive and its historical documents, which violate no North American law, is thus fully accessible again - even for Germans.



It is well known that a ban only makes the banned thing even more interesting; and accordingly, many web site visitors have already told us that this official attempt at censorship has only increased their interest in what we have to say.

- Are you one of these freethinkers as well? Are you tired of having the same old black-and-white view of history shoved down your throat day in and day out by the Establishment whose vested interests it appeals to?

A prejudiced view of history that more often than not tramples our German history into the dirt and resorts to falsification and suppression of information in order to defame our fathers and grandfathers as criminals - lock, stock and barrel?


Would you too prefer to trade the politically correct disinformation that the Establishment and its mainstream media are spoonfeeding you, for information that looks beyond totalitarian taboos and simplistic pre-set thought patterns?


Do you wish to exercise what should be every mature citizen's right, namely to inform yourself of the many shades of grey that are so generally suppressed, and to draw your own conclusions from them?


The following pages
offer you the opportunity to do so!



The information we present here on our WebSite is intended to give a glimpse of that little-known "other side of the coin".

Voices that are all too often stifled and hushed up elsewhere - here they shall be heard!


Uncomfortable and controversial information that does not fit the mold of politically correct agenda-history, and which for that reason is to remain safely in an Orwellian memory-hole - we sweep it out from under the carpet!



.................................................. .........................

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/welcome.html



~

[HeidiLore]

The minute we stop questioning is the minute we die. Do your own research. Nothing is as it seems.

[mntruthseeker]

I never gave the holocaust any thought other than Hitler was evil. All those jews killed. How much they suffered

I no longer believe it was all just jews at all. They actually got what they wanted out of this. Sympathy. I am at the point in my life that I refuse to keep these idea's to myself. Now when you look back on it......History is repeating itself for sure. Now a days we hate the muslins. they are terroristic, lets kill them. Years before it was the Native Americans and before them the Blacks. Always a reason but never the right one

In the past they have gone into country after country and committe a holocaust over and over again. Now legally through war and oh they are so bad, get them

On line David Icke (a brilliant man) has the story of The Children of the Matrix) As I read this there are many references to show the facts. He has news articles supporting claims. It was brilliantly done as all of David's work is. He never ever reads notes and talks for hours. Its just "right there"

The Jewish people are right in with the Illuminati's. It's sort of a Poor Me syndrom. Look at how much money they got over this. STill to this date people feel sorry for the jewish. Don't get me wrong, all I am saying is we are playing right into their hand. Sheeples

Now why is it that so many find all of this so horrible but are ok with what is happening with Iraq, Afganistan, Africa.

each of them are simply the same thing. Right down the mass murder of many. Women, Children civilians.

Same with Viet Nam millions caged in wire cages and killed. Such poison dropped my the skies that not even an insect was up and walking around.

So don't be so shocked over Jeff Rense's statement. To me he is a hero for daring to stand up and tell the truth. No wonder they want his site shut down.

Sorry for rattling on. I just fell that so many people sat and cried over the holocaust but in reality it is still happening. It never stopped and maybe not even in this life time but at least we know what really happen and can pass the info on.

Peace, Love & Light to all

[Nanosecond 2012]

Polish Jews in World War II


Jews in Polish Cities
The Jewish population made up about one-third of the population of cities in central Poland. They made up about 50%, and in some cases even 70% of the population of smaller towns, especially in Eastern Poland. Their domain included commerce, the crafts, industry and professions such as medicine and legal practice. In Warsaw, over 60% of all physicians were Jewish. Jews contributed not only to the development of housing in the cities, but also to municipal services thanks to their various public buildings (community buildings and organizational seats), cultural facilities (schools and theaters), religious buildings (temples, synagogues, and cemeteries), and communal buildings (hospitals, orphanages, and social care homes). These mementos of Jewish life were almost totally obliterated during World War II by the Nazi barbarism rampant in most cities. The largest proportion of that which survived may be seen in Warsaw and Cracow. Few such souvenirs have been preserved in such favorite health spas as Ciechocinek, Busko-Zdr—j (still boasting an old synagogue), and Krynica.


Warsaw
About 380,000 Jews lived in Warsaw in 1939; they made up one third of the city's population. Warsaw was the hub of the vibrant political, social, and cultural life of Polish Jews. The Great Synagogue on Tlomackie was blown up in May of 1943 by the Nazis as a gesture of "victory" over the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. The beautiful, round synagogue located in Warsaw's Prague District was also devastated and ultimately demolished during the nineteen-fifties The only synagogue to have survived wartime calamities was the one founded in 1902 by a wealthy Warsaw merchant, Zalman Nozyk, and his wife, for the sum of 250,000 rubles; today it is known as the Nozyk Synagogue Devastated during the occupation, this building was renovated after the war, and subsequently reconstructed between 1977 and 1983 thanks to financial aid from the State. Services are held there on the Sabbath and Jewish holidays; once each month recordings of synagogue and Chassidic music from many Polish centers may be heard there.


Warsaw's Cemeteries
The oldest Jewish cemetery in Warsaw was the Brodno Jewish Cemetery It was founded in 1799 by Szmul Zbytkower. The war is responsible for the complete devastation of this cemetery. Renovation renovation of what was left were undertaken there in 1985 thanks to the efforts of the Nissenbaum Family Foundation. The cemetery has been fenced off and a main gate has been erected in the form of two twenty-six foot pylons faced with black granite sculptured in bas-relief depicting symbolic scenes of Jewish martyrology. The construction of a mausoleum and monument, a house of prayer, and information and meeting center are also planned. The Okopowa Street Jewish Cemetery is the largest one in Warsaw and is still in use. This cemetery dates from the beginning of the 19th century. Many beautiful, richly ornamented, gravestones display lions, deer, plant life, and trees. The graves of members of priestly or Kohanin families present hands folded in a gesture of blessing,. Those belonging to Levite families depict hands carrying a jug of water. A hand inserting a coin into an alms box is the mark of a philanthropist, while a hand holding a book designates a scholar. Several eminent politicians are buried at this cemetery S. Mendelson and F. Perl, so too are rabbis Meisels and Abraham Perlmutter . Scholars S. Dickstein, Szymon Askenazy, Majer Balaban (Director of the Warsaw Rabbinical College during the 19th century), Antoni Eisenbaum and Jakub Tugenhold. Writers have their gravestones and mausoleums here as well including I. L. Perec, S. An-ski, Dinezon, and C. Z. Slonimski. The creator of Esperanto, Dr. Ludwik Zamenhof, is buried here, as are the famous Polish paremiologist Samuel Adalberg, the well known publisher Samuel Orgelbrand, and people with such famous names as the Natansons, Epsteins, Toeplitzes, Wawelbergs, Rotwands, etc. The grave of Szmul Zbytkower was moved here from the Br—dno Cemetery. A monument commemorating Dr. Janusz Korczak was erected a few years ago. This cemetery also has a section with the graves of Jewish officers and enlisted men - soldiers of the Polish Army - who lost their lives in the defense of Warsaw in 1939, as well as a mass grave for 300 victims of the Nazis. The gravestones of those who died in the Warsaw Ghetto, including Adam Czerniakow, the president of the Jewish community (Judenrat), and his wife who died after the war, are also to be found in this cemetery; there are also the mass graves of those who died of starvation, disease or were killed.


The Warsaw Ghetto
In mid-1940 Warsaw Jews, and those deported from many places throughout Western Europe, found themselves enclosed behind the walls of the ghetto. Its population reached one half of a million people who vegetated under terrible conditions suffering from hunger and disease. Mass deportations to the death camp in Treblinka were initiated during the summer of 1942. The first sign of armed resistance flared up in January of 1943 (around 60,000 people still lived in the Ghetto at the time) when the Nazis began their annihilation of the Ghetto; it forced the enemy into retreat and a temporary abandonment of their aim. Another attempt at extermination commenced on April 19th of the same year and resulted in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. Fighters of the Jewish Combat Organization, under the command of Mordechaj Anielewicz, together with those of the Jewish Military Union, had a well developed network of bunkers and fortifications. Over 2,000 heavily armed soldiers of the Wehrmacht and SS assailed the fighters. The Polish Underground actively supported the Ghetto Uprising; it supplied arms and organized military actions. On May 8th, after an admirable defense, the bunker at Mila 18 Street fell, and the staff of the Jewish Combat Organization, together with their commander all gave up their lives. The uprising fell by mid-May, but sporadic fighting continued well into the middle of July. A portion of those insurgents who survived were evacuated by the Polish Resistance to the "Arian" side via sewers. The figures quoted in General Stroop's report speak of 56,065 captured Jews of which 7,000 were summarily executed while the remainder were deported to Treblinka. Nazis put the figure of fighters killed in action at 5,565. The Polish underground press estimated enemy loses at 400 killed and 1,000 wounded. The waves caused by the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising were felt in other ghettos - Bialystok, Czestochowa, Bedzin, and Cracow - where similar actions, though smaller in scale, were triggered off.


Places of Remembrance in Warsaw
The site of the bunker on Mila Street,where the chief staff of the Jewish Combat Organization committed suicide (in order not to fall into enemy hands) together with M. Anielewicz (whose name is borne by one of the surrounding streets) is marked by a commemorative stone slab engraved in Polish, Yiddish, and Hebrew.
The Memorial of the Heroes of the Warsaw Ghetto is located on a square which was once the site of one the main bunkers of the Jewish Combat Organization. This monument is the work of Natan Rappaport; it is made of the bronze and granite (labradorite) ordered by Hitler from Sweden in 1942 for a monument "honoring the victory of Germany." The Warsaw Ghetto Memorial was unveiled on April 19th, 1948 - the fifth anniversary of the outbreak of the Warsaw ghetto Uprising. The Germans deported 300,000 Jews to Treblinka during the summer of 1942; their journey began from a ramp, known as Umschlag-platz, on Stawki Street. A commemorative Gateway-Monument was unveiled at the spot where Jews were loaded onto the railroad cars on the 45th anniversary of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. The names of 400 Jews are etched on it. This gate is intended as the kernel of a mausoleum, monument, and museum devoted to the memory of this tragic place. Another spot which remembers murdered Jews is in the nearby town of Anin. There, on Poprzeczna Street, the Nazis shot 45 Jews in July of 1942.


LODZ
The city of Lodz was one of the largest Jewish centers at the outbreak of World War II. Several large textile mills were in the hands of Jewish families. The I. K. Poznanski plant, for example, was one of the largest in Europe. Not far from the plant was a palace with magnificently furnished interiors graced by the paintings of the famous painter S. Hirszenberg. The Historical Museum of the City of L—dz is presently housed in this building.
About 33% of Lodz's population was Jewish during the period between the two World Wars (202,497 in 1931); of these, 870 survived the war. L—dz was an important center of culture. The city is the birthplace of famous composer Aleksander Tansman and the world renown pianist Artur Rubinstein and the great poet Julian Tuwim.


The Cracow Ghetto
The Ghetto in Cracow existed until March 13th, 1943. It was where the Jewish Combat Organization operated, eliminating informers and organizing resistance. There is a commemorative plaque located on the building which housed the headquarters of the Jewish Combat Organization honoring the Heroes of the Ghetto. Of the 68,000 Jews closed up in the Cracow Ghetto, few survived. Those that have, did so thanks only to the help of Poles. Most were murdered in the camps of Plasz—w near Cracow, Belzec, Sobib—r, Majdanek, and Auschwitz-Birkenau (Oswiecim).

Lubin - Majdanek
LUBLIN - MAJDANEK Lublin boasted the world's largest Talmudic school, Jeshybot. The building has survived; it now houses the Medical Academy (the Collegium Maius). A monument commemorating the 300,000 Jews murdered in the province was unveiled in 1962. There is also a Jewish cemetery in Lublin with graves of famous rabbis dating from the beginning of the 16th century. Almost two miles [3 km] from the city center is the Majdanek death camp, second only to those in Treblinka and Oswiecim. Here, tens of thousands of people were shot, gassed with Zyclon B, and incinerated; most were Jews. The tragic history of this camp is presented in a museum there. Another death camp in the same province, Belzec, has a monument commemorating the half million Jews murdered there. The Nazis eradicated all traces of their crimes here. The same is true of the camp in Sobibor, where 250,000 Jews from many countries were killed; this camp also has a monument. Jews from Poland and other countries were also exterminated in many other camps. Any trip through Polish towns will turn up many monuments and plaques in memory of Jewish martyrology. Over three million Jews died in the Nazi death camps on Polish soil. Tens of thousands were saved by their fellow citizens - Poles who risked their lives in order to give them shelter. It should be borne in mind that Poland was the only country where death at the hands of the Nazis was the punishment for aiding Jews.

Treblinka and Auschwitz-Birkenau
The Nazis located the largest extermination camp, designated exclusively for the murdering of Jews from the Warsaw Ghetto, the ghettos of other cities, as well as for thousands of Jews from nine other European nations, a few dozen miles outside of Warsaw at Treblinka. People were unloaded onto specially designed ramps, poisoned using Zyclon or exhaust fumes, and burned in piles or pits because the through-put of the crematories was insufficient. Clothes, valuables, women's hair, etc. was shipped to Germany. This extermination was not documented. Fellow prisoners - Jews - were forced to service the gas chambers, and assist in the cremation of the bodies and their robbing. An armed rebellion of prisoners flared up on August 2nd, 1943; several members of the SS lost their lives. Of the several hundred escaped Jews, only a few rescued themselves. About 800,000 Jews lost their lives in Treblinka; about 10% of this number were citizens of countries other than Poland. The Nazis then concealed evidence of their crimes: they destroyed almost all of the gas chambers, plowed the earth, and demolished the barracks. A monument, mausoleum, and symbolic cemetery containing 17,000 stones now stands on the site of the camp.

Auschwitz is considered to have been the largest factory of death in the history of humanity. Many millions of people lost their lives there, this number includes Jews from all over Europe. The site of this camp now houses the Oswiecim State Museum, which displays exhibits and documents concerning Nazi crimes. Block No. 27 is devoted to the martyrology of Jews and the millions murdered here. A monument has been raised on the site of the "auxiliary" camp, Brzezinka [Birkenau].

This is real and it states that in Auschwitz there were others that were not Jews that lost their lives - but it was all real.

[HeidiLore]

MNTruthseeker, that was very well put. Thanks.

[gwynned]

Hi,


I was then simple enough to attempt to show them the absurdity of their teaching. Within my small circle I talked to them until my throat ached and my voice grew hoarse. I believed that I could finally convince them of the danger inherent in the Marxist follies. But I only achieved the contrary result. It seemed to me that immediately the disastrous effects of the Marxist Theory and its application in practice became evident, the stronger became their obstinacy'

This I felt was indeed interesting. I will leave it upto you to draw conclusions. I am not an anti- semite but I believe that there is some grain of truth in what Hitlers intentions were.


So, the problem with the Jews, according to Hitler, was that they were Marxists. No wonder the capitalists loved and supported him, encouraged him to take on Russia, and only got worried when he forget who was the puppet and who was the puppeteer. One has only to recall that Lenin believed that Germany would experience a socialist revolution following up on the October Revolution in Russia. Once that did not happen, many of the Bolsheviks believed they were doomed as one cannot have socialism in one country....a fact borne out by history when the Soviet Union finally fell. And has been mentioned, one of the first targets for extermination were the communists.

My gripe is that the Holocaust has become a strictly 'Jewish' issue - little mention is ever made of the other targeted groups, including the Gypsies and Serbs. Why is it that? Could it be that we are meant to consider the Holocaust a strictly Jewish phenomena, so that we are held hostage by our guilt when it comes to Israeli politics? Just a thought

[Samarkis]

I feel that it is important to note that the holocaust was real. I had met several dozen survivors and heard some of their personal losses.I had read dozens of books written by survivors. I lived in Israel for 6 years and went to Yad Veshem-the holocaust museum.

I am a mixture of Jewish Russian-Romanian-English-Irish-German-Austrian
as far as I am told.(Jewish & Lutheren Background) There were jokkes in my family that we had the potential for WWIII within our own family!!! Gladly to say, we have meshed and synthesized all the goodness from both!!!From both sides I am 3rd generation , so my family was here already during WWII.


Now, What have I learned from my unique position??? I measure things from how much good or pain is caused. The holocaust is real. How much of facts are purposely hidden to cover up fault. Real people suffered, including many innocent Germans that bravely stood up to madness. Many other peoples throughout occupied countries stood up and were punished for their stand.

I believe it is as complex as our Present. We have MANY people throughout the world standing up for the rights of Humanity and are getting the
brunt of the PTB. It is NOT just Americans standing up for freedom, We ALL have to realise that Humanity is more than we realize and that WE all have a purpose to live in compassion, Love , understanding & somehow Unity.

Are there facts that certain factions are trying to control and lead the different factions of peoples and commit atrocities to get their plan accomplished(through pain & coersion)? YES! Then as now.

I believe in the near future, all will judge themselves to see how much they have added kindness and compassion or not.

Please spread Kindness & compassion!! Spread Unity!!! Please help others less fortunate than yourself!! THIS is what truly matters!!!