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Donald
11-17-2008, 11:52 AM
Hello all,

Note : I tried to post this on the Divine Cosmos forum but it seems the moderator wouldn't let me. Maybe they'll post it later after further review.

First I would like to state that I do not wish to be someone spreading fear but at the same time, I do not want to close my mind or ignore an idea solely based on the fact that it sounds negative. Let me also say that I do believe that David is a man of good faith, that he really believes everything he is saying. I do not believe is trying to deceive anyone.

So here it is.

What if David Wilcock was misled in some way? What if most of what he was saying is true but he was told a lie and he was not aware of it? How does someone know he is (or is not) being lied to? Truth is only what you believe it to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do not believe that David thinks of himself as someone who could not be misled in any way. I believe he is more intelligent than that.

Let me explain myself. I’ve been thinking about this since Barack Obama’s first press conference. He had visited the White House prior to that. While campaigning, Barack displayed a lot of confidence. He was very sure of himself. But at the press conference, he was a different man. He wasn’t so sure of himself anymore. He was hesitating and looking for his words. What happened in between? He met with President Bush. That’s what happened.

I am not saying that I know what happened and what was said during that meeting (for some strange reason, I was not invited to that meeting!) but it seems to me that what happened was enough to rob him of his confidence. Obama may not be controlled by the people of the New World Order but they may have scared him in some way. Fear is another way of controlling people.

David Wilcock claims he will have an important role in Obama’s administration. How is the President of the United States of America supposed to explain to the American public that he hired a man who pretends that we (well some of us) will soon turn into beings of the 4th density? How will he explain 4th density? How will he explain that David is the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce? How will the President keep his credibility after those questions?

Here’s what I think in a nutshell. Obama is nothing more than the continuity of Georges Bush’s politics. He does not plan to get out of Afganistan or Irak anytime soon. The housing crisis is the tip of the iceberg. The derivatives are a far more important a problem than what’s happening right now and almost no one is talking about it. I never heard Obama addressed this issue either. I do not believe that Barack Obama will save anything or anyone. I do not believe that he is the man who will “change” anything.

Barack Obama also announced that he will retain the services of Collin Powell, one of the men who lied to the American public about the weapons of mass destruction. The only question that I have is “Why?” Why hire Powell if not to continue the same politics of deception that was going on under the Bush administration?

Strangely enough, Oussama Ben Laden is back in the news. We haven’t heard from him in a while. The timing is suspiciously good.

If the people of the NWO consider that David Wilcock and his message are important and influential, do you not believe that they somehow would try to “get him on their side”? Flattery would be a way to get to David who wants his message to be spread as wide as possible (and with good reasons). Being asked to be an advisor to the President of the United States is flattering, don’t you think? They would also want David to say that Obama is a good man.

Have you seen those videos on YouTube where we can see all those coffins? They are not hidden. There they are for everyone to see, in plain sight. The NWO must be pretty sure of themselves not to hide anymore. They must feel that it’s too late for anyone to react anyway. They do not feel the need to conceal their plan anymore having their man in the White House.

Call me crazy, call me enlightened, call me “Joe the plumber” if you want to. I don’t mind. But react to this post. I hope that I am wrong. I want to be wrong. I do respect David and the work he is doing.

___________________________________
Thoughts change reality. Think about it.

Avid
11-17-2008, 12:13 PM
Please listen to these links (http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7640) to HalfPastHuman. They discuss Obama, and what he may have to deal with which is so serious from 22nd January to an almighty problem 26th January. Already hinted in the media by Colin Powell, Biden et al. Bye bye $?

By the way
Osama Bin Laden - ex CIA member - is dead (http://www.321gold.com/editorials/moriarty/moriarty111308.html)!

I don't know how David Wilcock will serve Obama - but maybe he already is :original:

777 The Great Work
11-17-2008, 02:43 PM
They put theses type messages in our face and we just think it is entertainment because we seek to be entertained.

http://freshimagehosting.com/images/qszyovna8vyz9jp80f0m.jpg (http://freshimagehosting.com/)

Then they even tell you what their plan is.
3And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.


http://freshimagehosting.com/images/h0dr4zm6fz11l1hzotda.jpg

Seeker Mom
11-17-2008, 03:16 PM
David Wilcock claims he will have an important role in Obama’s administration.

Is this true? Could someone please elaborate? I find it hard to believe that the president-elect would choose someone who claims to be the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce to have a known role in his administration. And if he has had communication with Obama I would think it was supposed to be top secret.

I considered myself a fan of David's until I read all his blogs about Obama. It just didn't sit right with me for him to be advocating for a politician of any party. Maybe he is being used by TPTB. That makes more sense than anything else I've read on the subject.

ghglenn
11-17-2008, 04:35 PM
I am not sure if Obama is fully aware of the plans ahead. He is given enough information to keep the ball rolling, if you will.
HPH has been quite accurate to this point. The interesting thing to me is that Cliff created this stuff as a financial market forecasting tool. Then, it developed into a social tool. He seems quite genuine, and seems to be laying himself, and his reputation on the line.
Wilcock is a "guru"... If you pay attention to his story, he was a lazy punk, who couldn't pay his bills. Decided that "work" wasn't for him. Now, he is the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce, yeah. He seems to have a nice demeanor, and a true ability to reach out to the impressionable. Don't get me wrong, he has done a great deal of research that is quite interesting...but ultimately he is just a good researcher, at best.

historycircus
11-17-2008, 06:48 PM
I doubt there is a human being on the face of the planet that could go into a meeting with the president defect, Bush, and not come out of it a little shaken. They probably had to clear out the coloring books and word jumbles to make room for the meeting. It is funny that you started this thread, because I noticed his body language too.

Maybe, and just maybe here, we have the wrong idea about the nature of our politics and leadership. Perhaps we concieve of a nefarious agenda that does not exist. Please hear me out:

The United States was founded for a host of different converging reasons - no one single cause led to the revolution. The Glorious Revolution of the 1680s in England allowed their political philosophers to finally participate in the Enlightenment discussions about the nature, ethics, and structure of power in Europe - which naturally led to articulations of how it could be different and better. The Protestant Reformation had unleashed the forces of individualism in spirituality. There had always existed, just below the surface of well ordered, patriarchal English society, a sentiment of resentment harbored by the masses toward their economic, political, and spiritual "betters." Add the situations peculiar to the colonial experience and you have even more reasons: 1) four wars fought against the French in Canada for the express purpose of colonial expansion and land acquistion, and then being told "no one except military officers or Indians get to live in the newly acquired lands" by the imperial government, 2) poor economic conditions caused by taxation, trade monopolies, land shortages, and a lack of currency, 3) having an ocean between parents and children in the age of the sailboat. No one single reason caused the American Revolution, but the effect was dramatic.

They created a system where the people's voice counted. It wasn't perfect - slaves, women, and Indians didn't count, and then there was that whole Civil War thing - but it was the start of a political system that does allow for free debate, the exchange of ideas, the peaceful transfer of power, etc. As broken as the political system was and remains, it does work at a fundamental level - voters still get to vote, and that vote does count. That government gets away with so much rank corruption, back door deals, and party driven conflict is not because our politicians are somehow more degenerate than the masses, it is because the people have grown so complacent and disinterested in the system. They care so little about the maintenance of democracy that they simply don't participate - they are lazy, bereft of their sense of civic duty. Perhaps our politicians are no more corruptable than we are, but we give them the high power of the land and then quit paying attention until our sensationalist media catches them soliciting teenage boys for sex, or taking hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of home renevations from oil industry magnates. Maybe we NEED an all powerful NWO/Illuminati to exist for us to assuage our own guilt for being less involved in our own communities.

With that being said, I do believe that there is a PTB power structure that we see, and one we don't. I differ, I think, with most here because I don't believe them to be as unified or as powerful as they are made out to be. There is definately a lack of accountability that comes with the lack of transparency, and that I believe is dangerous, and has led to some pretty rotten things. But I also believe that at least in the United States, it is not so far gone that the people have no control. Best case scenario is that we begin to pay attention to our politics, and begin voting in the right people - from the local city council and school board, to the POTUS. Worst case scenario, we water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants. Either way, we still have the fundamental control that we have had since the late eighteenth century. Voter turnout, in a truly free society where voting is a choice but a universal right (not a privilage or mandatory), can be indicative of a lot. Poor voter turnout has marked our last few decades, and nature hath given us so often a turkey instead of a lion. Obama has bucked that trend. Is his rise engineered by the PTB, or is his presidency the result of a new political awakening? Or the result of a faction of the PTB that has had their own awakening, or a change of heart?

Also, perhaps Obama was made aware of some of the very things that are terrible, that we think "they" know and are keeping from us? Maybe he is getting the "real deal" briefing about what is really going on that we all wish we could get? Remember how you felt the first time you entertained the notion that we are not alone in the universe, or that we might be headed toward a global cataclysm that we can't really do anything about, except survive? Perhaps that is what he is dealing with. I am hoping - not convinced - that Obama represents an open window of opportunity for disclosure, or rather disclosures, for I think there is a great many things it is time for the people to come to terms with. This guy might be enough of an outsider to get it done. Here's hoping, huh?:cheers:

Orion Morris
11-17-2008, 07:52 PM
I would have to beg to differ history circus....
They created a system that was virtually the same...
We were paying taxes to the crown almost instantly after our so called independence...

It wasnt a revolution... It was more like an expansion of the exhisting empire...

I live on an Indian reservation right now... There is nothing good that came from manifest dystiny...

Think about this... Indian reservations are the only place in America where the government gives out large amounts of money.... even more than wellfare or social security....
And.... Indian reservations are the exception to the federal law that criminalizes gambeling.... Their are casinos on the reservation which take all the money back from the people.... these casinos are supposed to help the tribe yet the tribe see's less than 10% of the net income after taxes...
This whole process is here to give the government their money back... the casino owner here on the reservation that I live on ownes over 15 other indian casinos here in the rocky mtn reagon..... They gave Obama over 5 million in trackable money.... these peole are strait evil and they are backing Obama as well... The Wind River Indian Reservation is being ran by elitist, cult, mafia involved puppets.... They pretty much allow legal meth labs out here.... This money funds the politics we are forced to buy into....

Obama and Bush and all the rest of them are gambeling, drug lab money funded puppets... who are working for the same masters.

Obama is involved with the same people who have been running this world for as long as history as been re-written.






I doubt there is a human being on the face of the planet that could go into a meeting with the president defect, Bush, and not come out of it a little shaken. They probably had to clear out the coloring books and word jumbles to make room for the meeting. It is funny that you started this thread, because I noticed his body language too.

Maybe, and just maybe here, we have the wrong idea about the nature of our politics and leadership. Perhaps we concieve of a nefarious agenda that does not exist. Please hear me out:

The United States was founded for a host of different converging reasons - no one single cause led to the revolution. The Glorious Revolution of the 1680s in England allowed their political philosophers to finally participate in the Enlightenment discussions about the nature, ethics, and structure of power in Europe - which naturally led to articulations of how it could be different and better. The Protestant Reformation had unleashed the forces of individualism in spirituality. There had always existed, just below the surface of well ordered, patriarchal English society, a sentiment of resentment harbored by the masses toward their economic, political, and spiritual "betters." Add the situations peculiar to the colonial experience and you have even more reasons: 1) four wars fought against the French in Canada for the express purpose of colonial expansion and land acquistion, and then being told "no one except military officers or Indians get to live in the newly acquired lands" by the imperial government, 2) poor economic conditions caused by taxation, trade monopolies, land shortages, and a lack of currency, 3) having an ocean between parents and children in the age of the sailboat. No one single reason caused the American Revolution, but the effect was dramatic.

They created a system where the people's voice counted. It wasn't perfect - slaves, women, and Indians didn't count, and then there was that whole Civil War thing - but it was the start of a political system that does allow for free debate, the exchange of ideas, the peaceful transfer of power, etc. As broken as the political system was and remains, it does work at a fundamental level - voters still get to vote, and that vote does count. That government gets away with so much rank corruption, back door deals, and party driven conflict is not because our politicians are somehow more degenerate than the masses, it is because the people have grown so complacent and disinterested in the system. They care so little about the maintenance of democracy that they simply don't participate - they are lazy, bereft of their sense of civic duty. Perhaps our politicians are no more corruptable than we are, but we give them the high power of the land and then quit paying attention until our sensationalist media catches them soliciting teenage boys for sex, or taking hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of home renevations from oil industry magnates. Maybe we NEED an all powerful NWO/Illuminati to exist for us to assuage our own guilt for being less involved in our own communities.

With that being said, I do believe that there is a PTB power structure that we see, and one we don't. I differ, I think, with most here because I don't believe them to be as unified or as powerful as they are made out to be. There is definately a lack of accountability that comes with the lack of transparency, and that I believe is dangerous, and has led to some pretty rotten things. But I also believe that at least in the United States, it is not so far gone that the people have no control. Best case scenario is that we begin to pay attention to our politics, and begin voting in the right people - from the local city council and school board, to the POTUS. Worst case scenario, we water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants. Either way, we still have the fundamental control that we have had since the late eighteenth century. Voter turnout, in a truly free society where voting is a choice but a universal right (not a privilage or mandatory), can be indicative of a lot. Poor voter turnout has marked our last few decades, and nature hath given us so often a turkey instead of a lion. Obama has bucked that trend. Is his rise engineered by the PTB, or is his presidency the result of a new political awakening? Or the result of a faction of the PTB that has had their own awakening, or a change of heart?

Also, perhaps Obama was made aware of some of the very things that are terrible, that we think "they" know and are keeping from us? Maybe he is getting the "real deal" briefing about what is really going on that we all wish we could get? Remember how you felt the first time you entertained the notion that we are not alone in the universe, or that we might be headed toward a global cataclysm that we can't really do anything about, except survive? Perhaps that is what he is dealing with. I am hoping - not convinced - that Obama represents an open window of opportunity for disclosure, or rather disclosures, for I think there is a great many things it is time for the people to come to terms with. This guy might be enough of an outsider to get it done. Here's hoping, huh?:cheers:

Donald
11-17-2008, 07:54 PM
Is this true? Could someone please elaborate? I find it hard to believe that the president-elect would choose someone who claims to be the reincarnation of Edgar Cayce to have a known role in his administration. And if he has had communication with Obama I would think it was supposed to be top secret.

David said that in a phone or radio interview. I don't remember which one though. But that is clearly what he said. I do not remember if he said "important" or "pivotal" role. But this was not a minor role.

Maybe it is top secret. I have no way to know.
________________________________
I am, therefore we are. We are, therefore I am.

feeler
11-17-2008, 08:06 PM
I doubt there is a human being on the face of the planet that could go into a meeting with the president defect, Bush, and not come out of it a little shaken. They probably had to clear out the coloring books and word jumbles to make room for the meeting. It is funny that you started this thread, because I noticed his body language too.


Perhaps, just perhaps, Bush Junior told Obama that the parachute explosion in the rear end of the plane was no accident and that it was a warning from Papa Bush for Obama to watch Obama's rear end if Obama doesn't cooperate.



-feeler

historycircus
11-17-2008, 08:08 PM
I would have to beg to differ history circus....
They created a system that was virtually the same...
We were paying taxes to the crown almost instantly after our so called independence...

It wasnt a revolution... It was more like an expansion of the exhisting empire...

I live on an Indian reservation right now... There is nothing good that came from manifest dystiny...

Think about this... Indian reservations are the only place in America where the government gives out large amounts of money.... even more than wellfare or social security....
And.... Indian reservations are the exception to the federal law that criminalizes gambeling.... Their are casinos on the reservation which take all the money back from the people.... these casinos are supposed to help the tribe yet the tribe see's less than 10% of the net income after taxes...
This whole process is here to give the government their money back... the casino owner here on the reservation that I live on ownes over 15 other indian casinos here in the rocky mtn reagon..... They gave Obama over 5 million in trackable money.... these peole are strait evil and they are backing Obama as well... The Wind River Indian Reservation is being ran by elitist, cult, mafia involved puppets.... They pretty much allow legal meth labs out here.... This money funds the politics we are forced to buy into....

Obama and Bush and all the rest of them are gambeling, drug lab money funded puppets... who are working for the same masters.

Obama is involved with the same people who have been running this world for as long as history as been re-written.

As I stated earlier, it was not perfect. The Native American experience of North America is one of the glaringly dark episodes of our history. Federal monitary distributions to tribes today are part of the treaties - it is a throwback to the annuities system developed over a century ago. For all that has gone right, there was much that went wrong and remains to be fixed. Nevertheless, times have changed. Native American communities across America are reinventing themselves, and networking in ways that may allow, finally, for the development of a pan-Indianism that will allow them to reclaim sovereignty once taken. I never claimed "Manifest Destiny" was good.

Secondly, I would like to see evidence of Obama's existence as a puppet. I'm not saying that he is not, it is just that the actual evidence for it is a tad thin. I've seen the youtube stuff, I've read the articles that claim he is Hitler. But the evidence for all of those claims is weak, or simply false. I've written on this before, but take the allegations of Masonry. Obama is not a Mason. He simply has not been inducted into any formal Masonic organization. There is none. How do you know he is a puppet? Where is your proof? I'm not saying that he is completely on the level, I'm just saying that we don't KNOW for sure one way or the other - it remains a possible window of opportunity.

Donald
11-17-2008, 08:12 PM
I doubt there is a human being on the face of the planet that could go into a meeting with the president defect, Bush, and not come out of it a little shaken. They probably had to clear out the coloring books and word jumbles to make room for the meeting. It is funny that you started this thread, because I noticed his body language too.

(...)

Also, perhaps Obama was made aware of some of the very things that are terrible, that we think "they" know and are keeping from us? Maybe he is getting the "real deal" briefing about what is really going on that we all wish we could get? Remember how you felt the first time you entertained the notion that we are not alone in the universe, or that we might be headed toward a global cataclysm that we can't really do anything about, except survive? Perhaps that is what he is dealing with. I am hoping - not convinced - that Obama represents an open window of opportunity for disclosure, or rather disclosures, for I think there is a great many things it is time for the people to come to terms with. This guy might be enough of an outsider to get it done. Here's hoping, huh?:cheers:

You turned an idea that I thought was negative into something that's beginning to sound positive. Thanks for the good vibes.:thumb_yello:
_________________________________________
It’s only real because you believe it is.

feeler
11-17-2008, 08:16 PM
David said that in a phone or radio interview. I don't remember which one though. But that is clearly what he said. I do not remember if he said "important" or "pivotal" role. But this was not a minor role.

Maybe it is top secret. I have no way to know.
________________________________
I am, therefore we are. We are, therefore I am.


I have zero confidence in Obama (I judge what he did, not what he said). Just like Bush Junior, Obama now started with plenty of what Bush Junior calls "political capital," enough to be very dangerous and enough to inflict serious damage to the public. If another 9/11 false flag operation were to occur, no one will be able bring himself/herself out of denial.




-feeler

Donald
11-17-2008, 08:22 PM
[QUOTE=historycircus;81744]Nevertheless, times have changed. Native American communities across America are reinventing themselves, and networking in ways that may allow, finally, for the development of a pan-Indianism that will allow them to reclaim sovereignty once taken. QUOTE]

I do not know from where you get that information but I can tell you one thing about reservation (I am a native from Canada by the way). I do not see that "reinventing thing" you're talking about. I don't want to elaborate on this because it not the subject of that forum. I can assure you of one thing : my nation is no way ready for sovereingty. Many wounds need to be healed first.

Donald
11-17-2008, 08:23 PM
I've seen the youtube stuff, I've read the articles that claim he is Hitler.

I never said he was Hitler!!!

historycircus
11-17-2008, 08:30 PM
[QUOTE=historycircus;81744]Nevertheless, times have changed. Native American communities across America are reinventing themselves, and networking in ways that may allow, finally, for the development of a pan-Indianism that will allow them to reclaim sovereignty once taken. QUOTE]

I do not know from where you get that information but I can tell you one thing about reservation (I am a native from Canada by the way). I do not see that "reinventing thing" you're talking about. I don't want to elaborate on this because it not the subject of that forum. I can assure you of one thing : my nation is no way ready for sovereingty. Many wounds need to be healed first.

It is happening on a number of reservations and former reservations across the nation. The Cherokee, for instance, have had some incredible leaders, like Wilma Mankiller, who were integral to developing tribal unity and reasserting sovereignty.

The Canadian government has its fair share of broken treaties and bad medicine to account for too.

historycircus
11-17-2008, 08:30 PM
I never said he was Hitler!!!

I never said you did.

Orion Morris
11-17-2008, 08:35 PM
Well if you want proof just look at the amount of hidden money that was given to him. That is pretty good proof considering that no canidate in the history of America has ever recieved that much money.....
99% of the weath rests in 1% of the population... Meaning that the one percent of the elite that have been running this whole freak show for so long has invested in him more than any other person ever.
Obama was also the president of his law class at Harvard... This club is masonic...
Plus anybody who has recieved that much television time has to be deep in on their game otherwise they would have never allowed him that much face time... This seems like good proof to me.

And about the reservations.... Well their culture is almost gone... their original knowledge is almost lost and their language will be dead in another 50 years.... at least the tribes that live here on the Wind River.



As I stated earlier, it was not perfect. The Native American experience of North America is one of the glaringly dark episodes of our history. Federal monitary distributions to tribes today are part of the treaties - it is a throwback to the annuities system developed over a century ago. For all that has gone right, there was much that went wrong and remains to be fixed. Nevertheless, times have changed. Native American communities across America are reinventing themselves, and networking in ways that may allow, finally, for the development of a pan-Indianism that will allow them to reclaim sovereignty once taken. I never claimed "Manifest Destiny" was good.

Secondly, I would like to see evidence of Obama's existence as a puppet. I'm not saying that he is not, it is just that the actual evidence for it is a tad thin. I've seen the youtube stuff, I've read the articles that claim he is Hitler. But the evidence for all of those claims is weak, or simply false. I've written on this before, but take the allegations of Masonry. Obama is not a Mason. He simply has not been inducted into any formal Masonic organization. There is none. How do you know he is a puppet? Where is your proof? I'm not saying that he is completely on the level, I'm just saying that we don't KNOW for sure one way or the other - it remains a possible window of opportunity.

historycircus
11-17-2008, 08:38 PM
Rising to the top of the class in the Harvard law program does not automatically make someone a mason.

Orion Morris
11-17-2008, 08:39 PM
Mason or not... he is an elitist....

historycircus
11-17-2008, 08:44 PM
And about the reservations.... Well their culture is almost gone... their original knowledge is almost lost and their language will be dead in another 50 years.... at least the tribes that live here on the Wind River.


At what point does individual responsibility to maintain language and culture kick in? And there are several tribal groups who are doing just that - bringing their languages back from the dead, and taking advantage of the decline in harsh cultural suppression to reinvest meaning in their symbols and heritages. That some groups are failing to do this, well, what does that say? That some are able to reassert their cultural identities after centuries of oppression, well, what does that say about our modern system?

historycircus
11-17-2008, 08:45 PM
Mason or not... he is an elitist....

He is elitist for pursuing an education, and excelling at it?

mntruthseeker
11-17-2008, 08:58 PM
I am torn between loving or hating what Obama represents. I don't trust him simply because he is not honest in his relationship with Michelle. Yes, whats new, who is that is involved in Gov. (not too many thats for sure) I always base my first trust instint on that ! Be true to yourself and others.

I too noticed a big difference in Obama after meeting with bush....I have no doubt in my mind that he had quite a meeting. There is a post on here regarding a Benjamin Fulford on Rense's site. It goes hand and hand with this. You can bet he was let in on alot. Meaning the power behind bush. This is pure evil

I do not think Obama is a mean person, I think he is a loving man. He had alot of ideas that are going to be much harder to achieve now and I'm sure his girls were threatened. If he plans to turn things around he will need all the help he can. Our prayers and love......we can't stop pushing the light (the right light) out to Obama and all his friends.

This should be interesting to say the least. I doubt that he will go into anything foolheartily just yet.

I like to think that in all the years they prepared Obama for this position, he too got prepared in his own way.

peace to all

ghglenn
11-17-2008, 09:11 PM
Does it really matter who the figure head is...might as well be Mickey Mouse.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj57/bergroth/Misc_Mickey_Mouse_as_Wizard1.png

Orion Morris
11-17-2008, 09:39 PM
That might be one of the most ignorant things I have heard.
Remember that these peopel were in boarding schools 60 years ago...
Their way of life became illeagle... the original culture was forced to leave... their is no longer living off the land... they were forced to live next to rival tribes and speak a foreign language.... They had to cut their hair and remove any form of cultural identity... The children who are alive right now were assimilated to this way of life by a generation that had had their entire lifestyle and religion ripped from their control....
Government loop holes were created to allow the introduction of drugs onto the reservation.... It is a fact that the giant meth lab that was discovered on this reservation 4 years ago was tied in directly with our own government... federal judges went down over the deal....

he is elitist... he is endorsed by the Clintons! He is on the same news that Bush was on... He is supported by the same system... he runs with the same people... and he dodges the same questiosn.... dont trust him for a second.... he is on TV non stop... he is supported by all of the magazines and news papers that brainwashed us to the point that we are today....

historycircus
11-17-2008, 09:45 PM
Whatever negative experiences your community has experienced does not negate the fact that other groups ARE in a process of revitalization. That is not ignorance, that is simply irrefutable fact. At what point do the sins of the father become our own?

Again, I ask for proof. It is one thing level the charge of "brainwashed," it is another to back it up with facts and figures.

Cheerio then.

mntruthseeker
11-17-2008, 10:02 PM
Aww such a disapointing thought I will still pray for peace and send the light.

I'm a dreamer

I'm through with the tears and will not feed them my fears or hatred any longer......:nono:

Orion Morris
11-17-2008, 10:23 PM
Well it is ignorance to ignor the signs when they are pointing to the same ol same ol story....

Its like if your husband comes home every night smelling of another person... spending all their time with another person.... talks to the other person.... goes out.... can explain things... or where they have been all night..... and you still believe that they are being honest....

The proof is in the pudding.... he hangs with them... he is on their TV... he is part of it... no denying that....

and either way the culture will never be the same.....



Whatever negative experiences your community has experienced does not negate the fact that other groups ARE in a process of revitalization. That is not ignorance, that is simply irrefutable fact. At what point do the sins of the father become our own?

Again, I ask for proof. It is one thing level the charge of "brainwashed," it is another to back it up with facts and figures.

Cheerio then.

hueyii
11-17-2008, 10:34 PM
I think people over analyze things. Barack seemed more poised before election because all of his speeches were rehearsed. Now he has to wing it. Glad to see him choosing his words carefully.

I dont need to tell you why Wilcox didnt allow this post.

Stop thinking so hard. You'll hurt yourself. Look within. It's so much more beautiful and peaceful there....

hueyii
11-17-2008, 10:42 PM
I doubt there is a human being on the face of the planet that could go into a meeting with the president defect, Bush, and not come out of it a little shaken. They probably had to clear out the coloring books and word jumbles to make room for the meeting. It is funny that you started this thread, because I noticed his body language too.

Maybe, and just maybe here, we have the wrong idea about the nature of our politics and leadership. Perhaps we concieve of a nefarious agenda that does not exist. Please hear me out:

The United States was founded for a host of different converging reasons - no one single cause led to the revolution. The Glorious Revolution of the 1680s in England allowed their political philosophers to finally participate in the Enlightenment discussions about the nature, ethics, and structure of power in Europe - which naturally led to articulations of how it could be different and better. The Protestant Reformation had unleashed the forces of individualism in spirituality. There had always existed, just below the surface of well ordered, patriarchal English society, a sentiment of resentment harbored by the masses toward their economic, political, and spiritual "betters." Add the situations peculiar to the colonial experience and you have even more reasons: 1) four wars fought against the French in Canada for the express purpose of colonial expansion and land acquistion, and then being told "no one except military officers or Indians get to live in the newly acquired lands" by the imperial government, 2) poor economic conditions caused by taxation, trade monopolies, land shortages, and a lack of currency, 3) having an ocean between parents and children in the age of the sailboat. No one single reason caused the American Revolution, but the effect was dramatic.

They created a system where the people's voice counted. It wasn't perfect - slaves, women, and Indians didn't count, and then there was that whole Civil War thing - but it was the start of a political system that does allow for free debate, the exchange of ideas, the peaceful transfer of power, etc. As broken as the political system was and remains, it does work at a fundamental level - voters still get to vote, and that vote does count. That government gets away with so much rank corruption, back door deals, and party driven conflict is not because our politicians are somehow more degenerate than the masses, it is because the people have grown so complacent and disinterested in the system. They care so little about the maintenance of democracy that they simply don't participate - they are lazy, bereft of their sense of civic duty. Perhaps our politicians are no more corruptable than we are, but we give them the high power of the land and then quit paying attention until our sensationalist media catches them soliciting teenage boys for sex, or taking hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of home renevations from oil industry magnates. Maybe we NEED an all powerful NWO/Illuminati to exist for us to assuage our own guilt for being less involved in our own communities.

With that being said, I do believe that there is a PTB power structure that we see, and one we don't. I differ, I think, with most here because I don't believe them to be as unified or as powerful as they are made out to be. There is definately a lack of accountability that comes with the lack of transparency, and that I believe is dangerous, and has led to some pretty rotten things. But I also believe that at least in the United States, it is not so far gone that the people have no control. Best case scenario is that we begin to pay attention to our politics, and begin voting in the right people - from the local city council and school board, to the POTUS. Worst case scenario, we water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants. Either way, we still have the fundamental control that we have had since the late eighteenth century. Voter turnout, in a truly free society where voting is a choice but a universal right (not a privilage or mandatory), can be indicative of a lot. Poor voter turnout has marked our last few decades, and nature hath given us so often a turkey instead of a lion. Obama has bucked that trend. Is his rise engineered by the PTB, or is his presidency the result of a new political awakening? Or the result of a faction of the PTB that has had their own awakening, or a change of heart?

Also, perhaps Obama was made aware of some of the very things that are terrible, that we think "they" know and are keeping from us? Maybe he is getting the "real deal" briefing about what is really going on that we all wish we could get? Remember how you felt the first time you entertained the notion that we are not alone in the universe, or that we might be headed toward a global cataclysm that we can't really do anything about, except survive? Perhaps that is what he is dealing with. I am hoping - not convinced - that Obama represents an open window of opportunity for disclosure, or rather disclosures, for I think there is a great many things it is time for the people to come to terms with. This guy might be enough of an outsider to get it done. Here's hoping, huh?:cheers:


A long missing voice of reason. Thanks for the sanity check historycircus.

historycircus
11-17-2008, 11:57 PM
Well it is ignorance to ignor the signs when they are pointing to the same ol same ol story....

Its like if your husband comes home every night smelling of another person... spending all their time with another person.... talks to the other person.... goes out.... can explain things... or where they have been all night..... and you still believe that they are being honest....

The proof is in the pudding.... he hangs with them... he is on their TV... he is part of it... no denying that....

and either way the culture will never be the same.....

That, in a nutshell, is the basis of our disagreement. I would argue that recent events do not echo the same old narrative. I have not yet become so jaded about the world that all I see are plots and conspiracies. If people spent half as much time figuring out what is wrong with their own lives as they did blaming other people and organizations (real or imagined) for their problems, we all might not be here on Avalon in the first place.

Donald
11-18-2008, 01:06 AM
I never said you did.

Ok :)

historycircus
11-18-2008, 03:08 AM
Ok :)

:chair::starwars::mf_swordfight::hammer::argue:

I am sorry, Donald, to have derailed your thread - I don't believe the beef that exists between OrionMorris and myself warrants hijacking your thread.

My apologies, and I wish we well.

Donald
11-18-2008, 04:44 AM
:chair::starwars::mf_swordfight::hammer::argue:

I am sorry, Donald, to have derailed your thread - I don't believe the beef that exists between OrionMorris and myself warrants hijacking your thread.

My apologies, and I wish we well.

Apologies accepted my friend. I wish you well too.

Ashatav
11-18-2008, 04:50 PM
Ok :)

Noo, he say you did I saw him!




no im kidding, an applause please :wall:

QueenOfLeon
11-18-2008, 07:11 PM
The meer fact he got into office, given that they are all rigged and MANY sources have quoted the elites saying it doesnt matter who wins, they always do, that should say it all really.

Obama wouldnt get a sniff at the top job unless he was d!ck deep in Bohemian grove.

Of course he could be pretending to be in with them and looking to take them down from the inside, but the logistics and burden of that is so ammense, maybe thats why he acted differently.

Im still on the fence about Obama, however , the first black president getting votes in predominantly white states reeks of a fix to me.

Ashatav
11-18-2008, 09:09 PM
The other day I put a nice, extremely positive non attacking post in David Wilcock forum.

One moderator tell me it was so long, so I must cut it.

When I cut it other moderator tell me that I was posting so many times so I must to stop posting (that's because how it was long I cut it into 6 parts).

They contradict each other and in the end my post never finished.


Other threads and posts who are not exactly what David shows are eliminated.

Ex: I put something on global warming. I put something non threatening about it just informative (remember that David made the famous "intergalactic day after tomorrow" with Hoagland). Was censored inmediately because was "not positive".

So I left the forum. It's like if you don't post exactly was David shows and if some of the moderators isn't in the mood you gonna get censored.

It isn't a forum is a compendium of afirmations backing what David shows for my experience.

And that's Before I realize that the Contactees cases with new age entities like RA where scamed by those beings... so I don't going to tell that into David forum, it will be ultra-censored! hahaha

(You know, the ascended master stuff are the "light part" of the Same pyramid than the satanism, who are the "dark part" of it and the ascended masters are the rulers of Both)

Ok, that's my experience. Cheerzo to everyone!

Humble Janitor
11-18-2008, 11:56 PM
Yes, let's continue to focus on the negative **** here on Avalon.

Maybe if we work hard enough, we can influence Obama in a negative way and totally **** up things further.

sleepingnomore
11-19-2008, 01:09 AM
I too noticed a change in Obama since that Security Briefing meeting. I think it's a natural response to be shocked after being briefed on the adgenda and nature of problems the world is currently facing. I suspect many black op projects and evidence were presented to him.

Rebel4Life
11-19-2008, 01:37 AM
Yes, let's continue to focus on the negative **** here on Avalon.

Maybe if we work hard enough, we can influence Obama in a negative way and totally **** up things further.

we can't that's violating his own freewill fool.:smoke:

Humble Janitor
11-19-2008, 03:00 AM
we can't that's violating his own freewill fool.:smoke:

Don't call me a fool. The only fools are people who continue to focus on negativity.

feeler
11-19-2008, 03:40 AM
The meer fact he got into office, given that they are all rigged and MANY sources have quoted the elites saying it doesnt matter who wins, they always do, that should say it all really.

Obama wouldnt get a sniff at the top job unless he was d!ck deep in Bohemian grove.

Of course he could be pretending to be in with them and looking to take them down from the inside, but the logistics and burden of that is so ammense, maybe thats why he acted differently.

Im still on the fence about Obama, however , the first black president getting votes in predominantly white states reeks of a fix to me.


No one needs to look further than the case of Ron Paul. Ron Paul was completely marginalized, completely blacked out.

Ironically, the campaign of Obama (an infant - relative to Ron Paul) did not suffer from media black-out.

Perhaps in the foreseeable future we will uncover the black art of the black box voting in the predominantly white states.


*For those of you seeing me as a racist, for the record, my vote went to a courageous black woman (and I am a Republican supporting a 9/11 reinvestigation).



-feeler