James of Wingmakers interview

[UncleJohn]

Uncle John here: Well, well, well, you can never tell.

Project Camelot publishes a written interview of James of Wingmakers fame.

http://www.projectcamelot.org/james_wingmakers_sovereign_integral.html

You know that I can't let this stand without a review. If James were standing in front of me he would experience a good slap upside the face.

This is going to take awhile and it is going to be fun.

"The reason for the Human Mind System to exist is for the Elite to exercise control over the Money-Power Grid."

This is total B.S. The Human Mind System exists for the benefit of God. The Money-Power Grid exists for the benefit of the devil.

Only love can fill.

P.S. After this forum goes to a subscription base, I'm out of here. I'm not hard to find and I will finish this review elsewhere.

[ENdJOY]

well, if James were standing in front of me, I would be tempted to kiss his feet!

OMG...this is so spectacular ... straight answers to great questions !

This may well go down in history as INDEPENDENCE DAY ! :trumpet:


"We are extremely excited to have been able to present this amazing set of answers - extending to over 20,000 words - to our penetrating questions on all aspects of the Great Game or Big Picture from James. There are few living today who in our estimation could approach his degree of clarity or vision into truth and the nature of what it means to be human." Kerry and Bill.

[UncleJohn]

Uncle John here: I admit that they are great questions. Way to go Project Camelot.

[ENdJOY]

"Before you, the reader, continue on, let me warn you that this is a sobering and direct analysis of the suppression framework and I would advise everyone who reads this to remain neutral as they examine my answers. If you find the information feeling too “heavy” or evoking fear, set it aside or return to it later. This story is not for everyone. Some will feel threatened by it and react with a sense of alarm, and others will feel like someone pulled the rug from underneath them. If you feel any of this, you may not be prepared to confront these realities." James

[UncleJohn]

Uncle John here: I agree with the following:

"this is a sobering and direct analysis of the suppression framework"

I've been talking about mind control (yet another phrase for the suppression framework) for a long while.

I don't agree with James's conclusions.

Another thing. I willing to publicly in good taste to discuss my opinions about this and James hides behind a framework that this one surmises is ET based. I recognize their fear of the light. The light of exposure. The light of disclosure. The light of truth or at least my(our) best attempt at it.

[ENdJOY]

When James launched the WMs website, now ten years ago, he included a section called Interviews, that laid out in detail, exactaly what we are experiencing now. The economic collapse, conspiracies, illuminati, incunebua,ACIO, etc etc etc, and he has been spot on, revealing plans that were fifty years in the making... I believe his disclosure led to many others coming forward and that he has the ability to change the way we look at our world with this interview.

Just when it felt as if the lights were about to go out, he holds up this torch to brighten our path...there are no words for the gratitude I am feeling now, for the information he has revealed.

[UncleJohn]

When James launched the WMs website, now ten years ago, he included a section called Interviews, that laid out in detail, exactaly what we are experiencing now. The economic collapse, conspiracies, illuminati, incunebua,ACIO, etc etc etc, and he has been spot on, revealing plans that were fifty years in the making... I believe his disclosure led to many others coming forward and that he has the ability to change the way we look at our world with this interview.

Just when it felt as if the lights were about to go out, he holds up this torch to brighten our path...there are no words for the gratitude I am feeling now, for the information he has revealed.

Uncle John here: First, there is no way that I'm going to put your avatar name in one of my posts. On the face or spelling of it, it reads as a negative assertion of which I'll have no part of, although I enjoy and respect the freedom for one to use any avatar name they feel drawn to use. I can see it as a play on spelling and I'll leave it at that.

Much of my learning of the realities of life have come from masked personalities such as James. For this, I share your gratitude. Gratitude is one of my favorite words and emotions.

As I have grown older (I'm 64) I have perceived where the the source is of the information these masked personalities are drawing from. I consider their sources to be from the dark side of life.

It could be said with a certain perspective, which is not one that I hold, that earth is a prison planet. I present this as a point to be considered in order to speculate that the motivation of these dark sources is that of jailers with a guilty conscience attempting to ameliorate their negative position in the larger reality of life. This is a difficult concept for me to illustrate and I pray I have presented my views without too much distortion.

Mankind is struggling with evil in this world. Hidden evil. The only way that I can see that humans can overcome this evil is for us to hold hands together with the ideals of truth and openness. I see James as one who holds forth the ideals of truth to a large extent. I see James as one who refuses to be open.

Why James hides behind anonymity, I know not why, but he does, and for this I will call him out anywhere and everywhere he raises his head to present his views.

I've been calling out these types of personalities for most of my life and so far I have not been blessed with an open, one to one, continuing discussion with any one of these. They slink away back to the darkness when I call them out.

James's torch does brighten our path, but I do not seek a brighter path, I seek illumination for all humanity and ultimately for all sentient beings everywhere and throughout all time. I strive to follow the Boddhisattva path. Buddha did not hide in the darkness.

[UncleJohn]

Uncle John here: The following statement from James differs from most all testimony of government and non government sources. The question is why?

"The beings that exist in the manifested, three-dimensional universe are human and only human."

For now, I'll just leave my comments at that.

Sorry Kerry, I would have loved to discuss this further with you and additionally James, but I doubt that either is going to happen. IMO, it was not you which was the reason the Wingmakers material was not cast into a movie, it was the material itself which prevented this. I hope that this makes you feel better about yourself. I do feel that you and Bill have made a very valuable contribution with Project Camelot and I look forward to your future interviews.

Transparency without openness is not transparency at all. Secrecy and transparency don't go together at all.

[Cyberbird]

If James were standing in front of me he would experience a good slap upside the face.


well, if James were standing in front of me, I would be tempted to kiss his feet!


This is so funny. :roll1:

It says so much about both of your personalities. Should I add my answer ? ; ]

If James were standing in front of me, I would stare at him a second, then go around and continue my path.

[Gnosis5]

Yah, likewise, Cyberbird. Plus I think I would thank him for the neat artwork and poetry and music and thank him for validating some of the discoveries I've made on my path.

As long as I continue on my path I will find out for myself what is true.

[ENdJOY]

cyberbird, I did not say that I WOULD kiss his feet, but that I would be tempted to do so...where as the other said he WOULD slap him upside the head...big difference.

James has brighten my path...and for this I am extremely grateful, I am sure that it has been a mostly thank less service that he does, countless hours, translating materials, composing music and poetry, painting and creating websites...what would drive a man to contribute so much, if it were not Unconditional love for his fellow man?

while you may just ignore him, and stumble along the path in darkness alone, I respect your choice, yet, I am honored to walk along side James, who recognizes the road signs, and who flow fluidly around the obstacles, and who treats me like an equal.

My journey with the Wingmakers, has been the most IN-lighten-ing experience of all my life times...and I enjoy the pleasure of his entire company.

[UncleJohn]

James has brighten my path...and for this I am extremely grateful, I am sure that it has been a mostly thank less service that he does, countless hours, translating materials, composing music and poetry, painting and creating websites...what would drive a man to contribute so much, if it were not Unconditional love for his fellow man?

while you may just ignore him, and stumble along the path in darkness alone, I respect your choice, yet, I am honored to walk along side James, who recognizes the road signs, and who flow fluidly around the obstacles, and who treats me like an equal.

My journey with the Wingmakers, has been the most IN-lighten-ing experience of all my life times...and I enjoy the pleasure of his entire company.

Uncle John here: Don't get me wrong. I have a very high opinion of James and the Wingmakers material. He has presented a system of materials, insights and instructions to follow that far exceed anything that I could do.

I just heard his third audio interview with Mark and I was very, very impressed. His best yet.

It is because of my opinion of him that I would slap him upside the face. Why?

Because my goal is not to uplift people in life, my goal is to expose the truth of reality. It is from that truth that systems like James can proceed from.

Make no mistake of it, James material is channeled material and even he probably doesn't realize this. Even worse, he doesn't care. Again, I have the utmost respect for what James has brought us.

The seeker does not need to throw out discernment why accepting insights and learning from Masters and James is a Master.

James talks about transparency in his Camelot interview. If James really believed in transparency then he would be concerned to see transparency in the source of his materials.

Many times James has presented his material as truth, only later to causally deny it as just the skin of an onion. In my view this is not good.

I look forward to meeting, God willing, if ever, a guide with James's level of knowledge who is open and available and not surrounded with isolation, secrecy, or an ivory tower.

If the readers don't see this in my post and only stick with their guru worship then they are missing the point! I not saying that guru worship is bad, I'm saying that it can be perfected with discernment.

[THE eXchanger]

i do NOT see any place james says
we must worship him ???

or, anyone else for that matter

to pay attention to "self"

the biggest trouble,
for anyone who has anything significant to say,
is that, the only thing, that is ugly associated with it,
is the opinions of someone else

let me give you a few examples,
i have seen:

1) the comment - they are crazy -- of course,
this is NEVER backed up with any proof,
and, oft times, the person slinging that arrow,
has no creditdentials to make such an assumption,
in the first place - which makes for an untruthful
assessment of the real facts

2) the work, it can NOT be original
so, they copied from someone else
(however, they can NEVER prove that)

3) it is always quite apparent that the other person
tossing the ill words,
they hold a "green card" of "envy" - which is a hard
dragon to slay

anyone who steps out to do anything significant
in their lifetime, if they knew,
they were going to do that,
they would likely wish, they had thought ahead,
and, taken steps, to guard, their privacy,
and, since, you do NOT need to prove anything
but your truth, the fact, you do NOT reveal who you are
is a mute point

[EarthBowl]

Hi Uncle John,
Yes, we do not need Gurus now. I think that was said by james in this interview also. We as humanity are in a different place than when Jesus, Budda were here.
THAT may be a main reason James stays in the shadows doing his work quietly. We are to grow up and take responsibility for learning who we are. First Point= oneness, unity, truth.
My understanding of the WMM - the purpose is discovery of who we really are/ the Grand Portal. (ALSO- look at our culture - we make celebrities out of people- it would happen to Jamers- and just be another way to distract us from our own responsibility. PS I am not saying you but many would be distracted).
Yes, there is something compelling about james... it may be his Sovereign Integral that we find so attract- ive. It may be that we recognize the truth and are drawn to it. Our human instrument tries to distract us because it is afraid it may dissolve in the presence of the SI.
I dont know the answers for others. I take what feels right to me now. and try to be open to know truth.

[Mypos]

James interview is certainly interesting to read. But I there is something I have learned lately is nobody has the answers. Nobody knows for sure what is coming or how we as humans are and which path we are to follow.
That being said I have difficulty some of the things he says. Like he is saying in 2012 nothing will happen. And other things like the human soul is inprisoned. How would he know that kinds of things to be true? There are many other people who say different things. And alot of people who say there are things going to happen in 2012.

[giovonni]

Greeting's Avalonian's,

All information will not radiate nor resinate, within each of us> in the same ways and at the same time. Saying that, I use a very simple rule, when judging the words coming from human mouths; The truth is neither here nor there, it is usually in the middle. Each of us, whether intending too> or not, speaks with both truth (with some exaggeration) and falseness (with sometimes intended decit). More often, truth resinates best, from what sounds logical> within ones own mine.

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out!
giovonni

[Mypos]

Greeting's Avalonian's,

All information will not radiate nor resinate, within each of us> in the same ways and at the same time. Saying that, I use a very simple rule, when judging the words coming from human mouths; The truth is neither here nor there, it is usually in the middle. Each of us, whether intending too> or not, speaks with both truth (with some exaggeration) and falseness (with sometimes intended decit). More often, truth resinates best, from what sounds logical> within ones own mine.

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out!
giovonni

The term Prison Planet is arguable. Me personally, I dont feel a prisoner. I dont have a job, dont have debts, dont own much. So i am free to go where I want when I want. And in my heart I most certainly dont feel like a prisoner. When I look at the beautiful things of life and in the world, I can enjoy it and it makes me feel good.

[giovonni]

The term Prison Planet is arguable. Me personally, I dont feel a prisoner. I dont have a job, dont have debts, dont own much. So i am free to go where I want when I want. And in my heart I most certainly dont feel like a prisoner. When I look at the beautiful things of life and in the world, I can enjoy it and it makes me feel good.

I might argue with your impression "i am free to go where I want when I want." gio

[recallone]

Don't think we're living within a framework?
Check out the documentary entitled Century of the Self. I just watched this the other day (it actually took me two nights), but I was very impressed. I think it will help validate a lot of this from a scientific perspective (for those of you in need of that for validation).

Century of the Self (Part One) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8953172273825999151)
Century of the Self (Part Two) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-678466363224520614&hl=en)
Century of the Self (Part Three) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6111922724894802811&hl=en)
Century of the Self (Part Four) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1122532358497501036&hl=en)

[Gnosis5]

Just to add one niggling point: it is not TRUTH, but "truths", as we don't know if there is any absolute truth. Truth overall is an onion of layers of truths, so that's why it always seems to change -- or improve.

gnosis



Greeting's Avalonian's,

All information will not radiate nor resinate, within each of us> in the same ways and at the same time. Saying that, I use a very simple rule, when judging the words coming from human mouths; The truth is neither here nor there, it is usually in the middle. Each of us, whether intending too> or not, speaks with both truth (with some exaggeration) and falseness (with sometimes intended decit). More often, truth resinates best, from what sounds logical> within ones own mine.

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out!
giovonni

[giovonni]

Just to add one niggling point: it is not TRUTH, but "truths", as we don't know if there is any absolute truth. Truth overall is an onion of layers of truths, so that's why it always seems to change -- or improve.

gnosis

truth is a an onion? Oh thats great-you had to go and mess my mind up! Just when I> thought I knew it allllllllll! Truth is an onion or layers of an onion with an s! Got it!:wall:gio

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out> except for Gnosis5, of course!

[Cyberbird]

cyberbird, I did not say that I WOULD kiss his feet, but that I would be tempted to do so...where as the other said he WOULD slap him upside the head...big difference.

James has brighten my path...and for this I am extremely grateful, I am sure that it has been a mostly thank less service that he does, countless hours, translating materials, composing music and poetry, painting and creating websites...what would drive a man to contribute so much, if it were not Unconditional love for his fellow man?

while you may just ignore him, and stumble along the path in darkness alone, I respect your choice, yet, I am honored to walk along side James, who recognizes the road signs, and who flow fluidly around the obstacles, and who treats me like an equal.

My journey with the Wingmakers, has been the most IN-lighten-ing experience of all my life times...and I enjoy the pleasure of his entire company.

With no disrespect at all and only with good intentions toward whoever write this: You could find some interesting truth about yourself in this very post.
I did. :winksmiley02:

-All types of knowledge ultimately means self-knowledge.
Bruce Lee

[ENdJOY]

no disrespect intended when I say, perhaps you are just now recognizing yourself in a mirror :naughty:





Old kabalistic saying, The faults you find in others are your own.


Old Christian saying, Judge Not.



PS, I find your posts just as revealing :winksmiley02:

[UncleJohn]

Uncle John here: I've posted about openness and truth. Two traits which I value very highly.

Let me add another which goes hand in hand with openness, and that is availability.

I'm available for anyone who wants to discuss my knowledge, understanding and ideas in a civil manner. I have been for a long time. I've left many arenas, but I've never had anyone say to me that I closed the door on them when they acted with civility. This is really what I mean by openness. Even if anyone wants to discuss things with me face to face, I pray I will not back away. I will not hide behind an ivory tower, secrecy, being too busy or not having enough time. I've worked hard in my life to have enough time.

I draw my inspiration from the Bodhisatva ideal in Mahayana Buddhism. From the Heart of Great Compassion Dharani Sutra: "Should any being recite and cleave to the sacred Dharani of Great Compassion and yet not be reborn in my Buddhaland, I vow not to enter Supreme Enlightenment."

This was also echoed in my favorite song, "Uncle John's Band:"

"Anybody's choice
I can hear your voice"

I know that the only absolute truth in the universe is found in Mathematics.

What I mean by truth is I try to not say things are a certain way unless I'm convinced that that is the way that they are and I'm open to discuss this truth with others. Inherent in my concept of truth is responsibility. The responsibility of correcting and apologizing when I've spoken something that later turns out to not to be true at the high level I try to maintain it.

James has not reached out for my level of openness and truth. One can bliss out on James presentations and I'm happy for you, but that is not going to change what I'm posting about. Not one bit!

Let me end with a poem by Soyen Shaku, the person who brought Buddhism to the west in 1893 at the World Parliament of Religions held in Chicago.

"One hut built on the whole universe.
From there I can see mountains, rivers and good earth
As my own garden.
Once I was annoyed with human language
Of good and bad, liking and disliking.
I can hear those voices from here, like the music of Paradise"

[giovonni]

Greeting's UncleJohn,
I believe, you gave it a good spin. I suspect many here on this forum, are at many different stages and levels, in this incarnation. Too find and bring cohesivness on this material, well, you know, would be like a miracle! I wonder, if any human being's perspective could? My best to you, gio

[Gnosis5]

Sorry, I did not mean to insult your intelligence with sophmoric truisms. Not everyone is as bright as you are, lol


love,
gnosis



truth is a an onion? Oh thats great-you had to go and mess my mind up! Just when I> thought I knew it allllllllll! Truth is an onion or layers of an onion with an s! Got it!:wall:gio

No Hunan Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out> except for Gnosis5, of course!

[ENdJOY]

Uncle John, I just had to laugh, you say your door is open, yet you slam it in James' face...apparently because you discerned he doesn't need your advice:naughty:

If you know what a Sovereign Integral is, and how to acquire that state of consciousness...then perhaps you should open you own website and share that information.

Truth is universal, and resonates the heart... I do not feel my heart's strings resonating from your judgments...based upon your narrow and limited notions of what a spiritual person is. We are all spiritual people, seeking truth, it does not matter who presents it...it only matters what we do with it when we find it.

[UncleJohn]

Uncle John, I just had to laugh, you say your door is open, yet you slam it in James' face...apparently because you discerned he doesn't need your advice:naughty:

Uncle John here: There you go, accusing me of something I've never done. That's what I call uncivil. My only response to uncivil persons is wrapped up in one word. Good-bye.

[UncleJohn]

Make no mistake of it, James material is channeled material and even he probably doesn't realize this. Even worse, he doesn't care. Again, I have the utmost respect for what James has brought us.

Can someone point out where James says he is "channeling" material? I can't find it. I think he is just stating basic knowlege and wisdom he's learned along his life. anyone?
Listen to him... he says in Interview #1 it is ALL a myth... with symbology.

Many people CHANNEL and do not REALIZE they are....

I have been there with many Channels.... belive me... after LISTENING to his interview he is channeling.... he takes long pauses and over-elaborats when a simple statement is made....

I consciously CHANNELY myself... and belive me this is the way it happens... the words just come out... you have not PROVEN it and many things come out that you have no information about in this world.

There is a body of WISDOM ... a RIVER of KNOWLEDGE.... that many people can tap into .... and simply SPEAK IT OUTWARD...

Many people can tap into it... it is NOT LEARNED wisdom... it simply IS PRESENT .... and comes upon you... like ocean waves.

My problem is... he has said that ALL CHANNELS are Energy Constructions... yes that is true... but so IS HE!!!.

He is PROGRAMMING others according to HIS DESIRES for an evolved world.

This is a CULT.

Thank you very much... did he ASK US if this is WHAT WE WANT for the world....????

NO... he is embedding his own CONSTRUCT upon you ... it is another CULT MIND CONTROL.

The Cult of James.

a SoVerign BEING... does not go ALONG with the CONSTRUCT of others... they are CREATORS to create their own.

See the FINE LINE HERE... wake up....

Uncle John here: This interpreter has gone too far. Clearly there is no cult here.

Without open and civil dialog there will be no discernment of the truth about Wingmakers.

Now I know to look for over capitalization and the figure of speech of ellipses or pauses (.....) as signs of channeling.

[peaceandlove]

No Human Being here on this prison planet (whether fool or prophet), holds all the answers, to what is truth. It is up too each> to find their own way out> except for Gnosis5, of course!

This is an interesting opinion about TRUTH!

TRUTH: http://eddraper.org

"The truth isn't easily pinned to a page.
In the bathtub of history the truth is harder to hold than soap, and much more difficult to find?"
-Terry Pratchett


Anyone seeking the Truth faces one huge and immediate task. Truth must be defined. What is Truth? Is Truth universal or does truth, like beauty, lie in the eye of the beholder? If it is universal, is it immutable or can it evolve? One way of trying to answer that question is by observing the searches of others and the truths they have found.

Religion ~
Religion has one advantage of all other forms of enquiry; it offers a complete and universal truth.

Q. Why does it lightning?
A. Because the god of lightning is having a fight with his wife. By referring all questions to a higher authority it becomes possible to explain everything without actually knowing anything. The problem is that religious truth is dogmatic by nature and therefore is not adaptive to new understandings.

An example is Galileo's experience with the Catholic Church.

The church had determined, based on the best information available at the time, that the Earth was the center of the universe and everything revolved around it. When Galileo discovered the truth, the church was stuck. To admit the truth would be to admit that their version of the truth did not come from God. It was much easier to just slap poor Galileo around. The point can be made that religion should limit itself to religious truths and not attempt to extend their truths to the physical realms. This is the very heart of my rejection of religious proof, it cannot withstand questioning.

Here is the first rule of Ed's Definition of Truth.
Rule #1, Truth does not require blind faith. If it cannot withstand rigorous questioning, it cannot be true.

Science ~
Science is a systematic discipline designed to find empirical truths. As such, science does well at making sense of what we can see and hear and touch.

There are two obvious problems with science.

The first is that something can be important and yet not be something that can be seen or heard or touched. The second is that science can only work with the evidence available to it. The overwhelmingly vast majority of our universe is too distant to be witnessed. There are things that we can know about distant galaxies, but they are insignificant. Even on our own planet we are limited to the present and a handful of clues about the past with no knowledge of the future and little of the vast area below the surface.

Science also does no good at all at helping us to understand a purpose or a meaning for our existence.

Here is the second rule of Ed's Definition of Truth.
Rule #2, Truth is all-inclusive, careful analysis of a single segment or facet of reality will not reveal the greater truth.

Philosophy ~
Philosophy attempts to use a number of different approaches to understanding Truth.

Rationalism attempts to define truth by the application of reason.
Transcendentalism attempts to apply intuition to discover truth.
Innatism tells us that we are born with the truth within us *while* Aristotle tells us we were born a tubula rasa (blank slate).
Philosophy is like searching for a Lost City of Gold by spinning a bottle and then heading in that direction. It only works if your bottle luckily points in the right direction. The act of choosing a philosophical discipline determines the outcome. If you choose to be a Nominalist and Truth turns out to be abstract, you are screwed in the same way as a bottle spinner whose bottle points north when the Lost City of Gold is to the south.

Here is the third rule of Ed's Definition of Truth.
Rule #3, The Truth can only be discovered by those who are willing to look where Truth happens to be. So, what have we got? Not much, just three rules.

Am I going to follow those rules? Absolutely not.

Here is the last rule of Ed's Definition of Truth.
Rule #4, We must be true to ourselves.

No matter what I said before, deep down inside of me I want the Truth to be universal. I do not want the Truth to be dependent on the day of the week or which side of the road. Nor am I willing to accept a Truth that is contingent on the whims of popular opinion.

So I will seek that Truth which my heart says is right. Wish me luck... or don't.

[dayzero]

Greetings one and all.

Just to add my bit -

I found the James interview odd at first, especially as I'd never heard of him or the wingmakers etc etc
anyway, I thought, well, I'll read it and think it over. [but I didn't get that much out of it overall]
i liked the pie charts though. they kept me comin back.

Then just recently I came across these AUDIO interviews that James did earlier last year with someone else, and I must say they are ..........FANTASTIC.

I highly recommend that these are listened to first if you have not read the interview with Kerry, either way, just have a listen, they're great!
And very relaxing too, so don't be operating any heavy machinery.

http://www.wingmakers.com/whats-new.html

There's also some free downloads of 'meditation' music material further down the page.