JAMES: The WingMakers Interview on Camelot

[Kerry Cassidy]

5 December

• We are delighted to announce the release of our recent written interview with JAMES from WingMakers.com. For those of you who are unfamiliar with this website, I highly recommend it. WingMakers is a fabulous and profound science fiction story deeply anchored in truth - featuring over a thousand pages of the highest quality music, paintings and teachings.

This is a highly unusual move for James of WingMakers. In the past, the only other interview he has done was with his trusted webmaster, Mark Hempel. We are extremely excited to have been able to present this amazing set of answers - extending to over 20,000 words - to our penetrating questions on all aspects of the Great Game or Big Picture from James. There are few living today who in our estimation could approach his degree of clarity or vision into truth and the nature of what it means to be human.

In truth and with blessings,

Kerry

[Emman]

Kerry,

Thank you for conducting this interview on James. I have to think that this may be your most profound interview on Camelot. Basically, what James is saying is that the matrix is far greater than anyone could have imagined. Even spirituality is not apart from the matrix. We have come to realize that religion has always been a key component of the control matrix, but now we must ponder whether our spiritual aspirations are simply part of a program within the walls of this matrix. Pretty mindblowing stuff. I realize that the world is not as it seems, but it is even more not as it seems. But, this is good. We are in this new era of dismantling the coverups and falsehoods that have kept humanity at bay for such a long time. I have thought that whatever we may uncover eventually will be beyond what we have thought of as real and truth. I'm sure there will be so much more that will rattle our comfort zones and shift the floor from beneath us. That's good though. As long as we break down the walls of the matrix and demolish this prison of ignorance and unfulfilled awareness, that is good. Thank you.

[Gnosis5]

Great post, Emman, thank you.

Gnosis

[Cerebro]

This interview was deep. I thought it was interesting how James talked about humanity's inherent nature to be greedy, selfish and destructive. That it's something that is passed on through each incarnation in the human family and continues to be our worse flaw. James' views really resonate with me in the sense that they're logical and they show that we can control our own destiny if we can free ourselves of the "HMS Matrix." Guys, let's get in touch with our sovereign integral and first source!

[cway]

James Wingmakers Interview
http://rapidshare.com/users/21QBW0
Part 1-3
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=3837145507661210652

I found this one and the ones on his website to be very interesting and enjoyable

[cway]

This interview was a great achievement by project camelot

[Frank Samuel]

Thank you Kerry for the interview with James, you dear Lady are a special soul indeed, long ago free from the shackles of the prison of the mind.
Your vision and inspiration to search for truth has brought you to places in the human psyche that few have dare to cross. My eternal gratitude to you .:wub2:

[shanonatime]

kerry, i feel i know these people. it's strange.

like too strange.

you have no idea how much synchronicity has hit me in the face around this interview....

i think this film will be in production sooner than you think

[Christina Sila]

Wow…. The Wingmakers Interview on the Sovereign Integral is quite a Human Mind bending proposition. This is the first I’ve heard or read of Wingmakers. Thank you for posting the interview, Kerry, and for starting another thread on this subject on a more positive note than the previous post.

In respect to the “God-Spirit-Soul Complex”, the Wingmakers explanation of the human condition challenges all that I have believed in. Far be it for me to say whether GSSC is truly mind programming or not until I personally test the recommended practice of breathing and remain open to what I may learn. I, for one in our collective, intend to explore the practice of Quantum Pause breathing patterns/techniques for myself before formulating any opinion. It will be interesting to see whether it opens a new awareness or state of consciousness. Here’s hoping. :thumb_yello:

[linkes]

Well what can I say ?

There is no way you can ever be able to top this interview I think this is the most outstanding information I have ever come across and I am completely blown away.

It seems this changes the whole direction and work of Project Camelot its like James said “be prepared to jettison your beliefs”

Man o man well done this is fantastic work thank you thank you thank you.

I have looked on the wingmakers site a few times but just couldn’t integrate it nor understand it but from this interview it makes the site that much more easier to understand.

You have not only out done yourself but you have also helped establish the wingmakers material to a new level.

I was reading the material and had so many profound moments and so in awe about this work it rang so true to how I feel inside about things finally something that feels 100% right 100% me.

I would read the ra material and david wilcok and listen to interview on pc and red ice and all these things, I even tried channelling and they all felt like they missed something vital even the explanations of what karma is and polarity all felt like they missed something.

Well I don’t know what else to say but thank you for helping me find this.

Below are some quotes from the interview that really felt so right.

“Each of us is our own saviour”
“This even upon death, the Sovereign Integral is not released from the influence of the HMS”
“In polarity the human instrument is lost”
“Polarity is what activates and feeds the HMS”
“Your entire life is a series of moments or passages of time, and each passage you are accompanied by your infinite self that is seeking one thing on this earth: self realization of itself within the human instrument”
“It is realization not ascension”
“What happens to one happens to all”
“Forgiveness is the active formula to self assessment of your present situation and the application f the new behaviours that are in resonance with the Sovereign Integral.”
“All I can tell you is that for some of you, when you feel you have gone astray – uneasy in your every thought and feeling – you are the closest to being found”

Peace and Blessings
Linkes

[Gnosis5]

Wow…. The Wingmakers Interview on the Sovereign Integral is quite a Human Mind bending proposition. This is the first I’ve heard or read of Wingmakers. Thank you for posting the interview, Kerry, and for starting another thread on this subject on a more positive note than the previous post.

In respect to the “God-Spirit-Soul Complex”, the Wingmakers explanation of the human condition challenges all that I have believed in. Far be it for me to say whether GSSC is truly mind programming or not until I personally test the recommended practice of breathing and remain open to what I may learn. I, for one in our collective, intend to explore the practice of Quantum Pause breathing patterns/techniques for myself before formulating any opinion. It will be interesting to see whether it opens a new awareness or state of consciousness. Here’s hoping. :thumb_yello:

Christina, I'm starting to develop this practice too, and please post your progress on a separate "Quantum Breath" forum, thank you very much.

love,
gnosis

[information]

Rings true. A companion reading to this supports James' information:

http://www.sabon.org/reptiloid/index3.html

Also, the very last part of the Bob Dean Project Camelot interview, where he
starts crying, he states we are a genetically engineered species not from
this world (my para-phrase):

http://www.projectcamelot.net/bob_dean.html

I like how he breaks down our 'condition' into definable, logical parts. His language is a little dense for the 'common man', it would be cool to have an artist like Chuck D of Public Enemy state the information in his own words, in order to 'get over' to a larger audience.

The graphics really help. Human Mind System, the religion system, the death-stress-something one, it's a larger form of mass-mind control, mass-consciousness control really. The breath techniques are all powerful counter-measures against these controls. I always come back to center, to right now, when I use them. Read more about countermeasures to mass-mind control here:

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=531&highlight=mass-mind+control

Recommend listening to everything you can from Daniel, a blessing to us for his sharing of what he knows;

[http://truthbrigade.org/smf/index.ph...c,1304.0.html]

His other interviews are archived on this website, check the link called 'calendar'
or do a search.

Love and thanks to all (KERRY!),

info

[Gnosis5]

In particular, for me, the acknowledgement and naming out of the GSSC brought great relief for I know I am not alone in seeing this. Remember how Nemo felt before the Matrix was revealed to him and how he became more powerful as he started confronting it and he dug inside of himself. Okay, pardon me for strained metaphors :original:

Gnosis



Well what can I say ?

There is no way you can ever be able to top this interview I think this is the most outstanding information I have ever come across and I am completely blown away.

It seems this changes the whole direction and work of Project Camelot its like James said “be prepared to jettison your beliefs”

Man o man well done this is fantastic work thank you thank you thank you.

I have looked on the wingmakers site a few times but just couldn’t integrate it nor understand it but from this interview it makes the site that much more easier to understand.

You have not only out done yourself but you have also helped establish the wingmakers material to a new level.

I was reading the material and had so many profound moments and so in awe about this work it rang so true to how I feel inside about things finally something that feels 100% right 100% me.

I would read the ra material and david wilcok and listen to interview on pc and red ice and all these things, I even tried channelling and they all felt like they missed something vital even the explanations of what karma is and polarity all felt like they missed something.

Well I don’t know what else to say but thank you for helping me find this.

Below are some quotes from the interview that really felt so right.

“Each of us is our own saviour”
“This even upon death, the Sovereign Integral is not released from the influence of the HMS”
“In polarity the human instrument is lost”
“Polarity is what activates and feeds the HMS”
“Your entire life is a series of moments or passages of time, and each passage you are accompanied by your infinite self that is seeking one thing on this earth: self realization of itself within the human instrument”
“It is realization not ascension”
“What happens to one happens to all”
“Forgiveness is the active formula to self assessment of your present situation and the application f the new behaviours that are in resonance with the Sovereign Integral.”
“All I can tell you is that for some of you, when you feel you have gone astray – uneasy in your every thought and feeling – you are the closest to being found”

Peace and Blessings
Linkes

[cway]

The amount of this information that is coming in now or being revived is amazing.

[ENdJOY]

I believe that it is a little more than co-incidence, that the Era of Transparency comes shortly after the Mayan 6Th Day began :winksmiley02:

[Czymra]

“Polarity is what activates and feeds the HMS”
“Your entire life is a series of moments or passages of time, and each passage you are accompanied by your infinite self that is seeking one thing on this earth: self realization of itself within the human instrument”

Linkes

Thank you for repeating these.
After I read this interview I thought to myself what the point would be. If it is all inside the HMS and the HMS is all 'fake', what would be the point to engage with it. And in fact "James" says that one has to look beyond it. But then don't I cancel out everything that makes life for humans valuable? What about the emotion that keeps us running most of the time? I see that all the negative spectrum is to slave me around but he puts it as if the positive, even though it supposedly heightens my frequency and activates more DNA, shouldn't be bought into either.

I can see purpose of manifesting the 'infinite self' but if the HMS is fake, why manifest on this 'plane' rather than escape completely, if that's at all possible?

[Edward Alexander]

I found virtually everything that James said to be identical to my own experiences and discoveries, so to me there is no doubt about its being valid and real. In fact it was quite interesting to see someone else has come up with the same things as myself completely independently, as I'm teaching other people about the very same things myself.

A very important interview that people really should consider, reflect and meditate upon.

I suggest trying out the exercises mentioned as well.

Best wishes to all, may your inner guide be with you
-EA

[linkes]

I can see purpose of manifesting the 'infinite self' but if the HMS is fake, why manifest on this 'plane' rather than escape completely, if that's at all possible?

Hey Czymra

Well the way I saw it is the physical dimensions are still aspects of first source creation its the grid that is locked around the physical plain that dulls out our multidimensional selves and restricts us to only our emotional physical and mental selves which in truth are not even us but more or less a computer program which our consciousness has been locked into.

We’ve been cheated our experience on this level of creation has been manipulated and we have been cheated out of an experience and trapped in what I have found personally to be not acceptable.

I have read material where they said its with the negative that we find our true selves this concept just never sat well with me, the whole polarity thing just never sat well with me, so when I read James description it answered a lot of questions I had around these concepts and it just felt more in line with what I feel to be my truth.

I am also an avid reader of the Ra Material and have studied many of ll researchs channels I have been to channellings myself and even then I just felt like something was missing. Like I tried to get into all the Alice Bailey stuff but couldn’t even bring myself to read I felt put off by it.

Even when I started the whole research of all the conspiracy theories it just feel like the reasoning isn’t totally there but with this interview there is reasoning, there is a truth it just feels right.

2012 may come and go, Floods may come and go, Illiminati may come and go, earth quakes may come and go, BUT what truly matters above all this is the fact that you are conscious, that you are you, you are Source. It is in this knowledge, that we will always have the last Laugh.
Lets all Go forward from this interview and just be AWARE, CONSCIOUS of who you truly are.

Peace and blessings
Linkes

[Gnosis5]

My understanding is that one would have to merge the polarities between the "player" (spirit) and the "playing field" (physical) before one can "escape". Or, that is the only escape you would really wish to experience, any other only digging you in deeper.

[Czymra]

I can see what you mean but speaking/thinking/feeling about it is not going to help it.
So what do I do with the rest of my life when I'm just supposed to sit there and practice the quantum pause. I still need food huh?

[milk and honey]

In respect to the “God-Spirit-Soul Complex”, the Wingmakers explanation of the human condition challenges all that I have believed in. Far be it for me to say whether GSSC is truly mind programming or not until I personally test the recommended practice of breathing and remain open to what I may learn. I, for one in our collective, intend to explore the practice of Quantum Pause breathing patterns/techniques for myself before formulating any opinion. It will be interesting to see whether it opens a new awareness or state of consciousness. Here’s hoping. :thumb_yello:
Hi Christina,

Your reasoning here may be a bit wobbly for a couple reasons. I wouldn't be too quick to draw a cause - effect relationship between the validity of "GSSC = HMS" and the utility of "Quantum pause'".

First... If you do prove the utility of the breathing technique - "Quantum Pause" - it won't necessarily invalidate the truth found in concepts of God / Spirit / Soul.

Second... The so called "Quantum Pause" is an exact replica of an ancient breathing technique which the 1920s yogic group the "Self-Realisation Fellowship" called "SRF breathing exercises" and which a 1970's text called the "sacred fire breath". So, if your soul awakens to the gentle breeze of spirit give gratitude to God the Source. James didn't invent it.

[Czymra]

Second... The so called "Quantum Pause" is an exact replica of an ancient breathing technique which the 1920s yogic group the "Self-Realisation Fellowship" called "SRF breathing exercises" and which a 1970's text called the "sacred fire breath". So, if your soul awakens to the gentle breeze of spirit give gratitude to God the Source. James didn't invent it.

That's interesting. Why do you think that this breathing technique is being suggested? Why would it be different?

[milk and honey]

That's interesting. Why do you think that this breathing technique is being suggested? Why would it be different?
To be clear, i'm saying the breathing technique is no different and that it is not new.

There's several reasons why the technique is being suggested. One is that no technique alone is guaranteed to enlighten or free any soul who is wed to the mass consciousness through inordinate desire and monkey mindedness.. There is a lot to learn and a lot to see through on the path of awakening so no technique of itself is the answer to the human condition. Even valid techniques like the "sacred fire breath" in question is no panacea although some people will make the most of it perhaps because of their soul sensitivity developed in past lives due to honest self examination and genuine charity. Some may for the first time open the windows of the soul to the sunlight of spirit while using this technique. Most probably won't however although in oxygen there is prana which sedentary folk do no get enough of. Others will get light headed from the lack of oxygen and think they're now enlightened.

Our inner work is not only to see and root out (of the ego) all the anti-theses of the virtues of the real- Self, but the imposters too. Both are present and must be seen through. Most people are self decieved because that inner imposter masquarades as the real-Self. It is a part of them yet they are blind to it and consequently blind to the real - Self. That sense of self-aggrandisement blinds some people to the Grand ego of others which they are drawn to as a magnet. Consequently, they choose their teachers unwisely because of their own spiritual blindness.

So, breathing and other techniques can safely be given (by false teachers and very often have been) because a technique is only as good as the person using it. So in most cases, but not all, the technique will be of little benefit, it being just one of many elements which a soul needs for self-realisation. Even the false teachers are happy for you to have techniques which the real adepts discovered and released centuries ago because by association they come up smelling roses. "Such charity ... he simply must be my friend." In James' case he'd probably rather you didn't know where he got this breathing technique because it would beg the obvious question:

"What other concepts and techniques are valid from the same source?" And which of them has James already arrogantly dismissed?"

[Czymra]

"What other concepts and techniques are valid from the same source?" And which of them has James already arrogantly dismissed?"

Thanks for that. I do have an odd feeling about quite some of the stuff being said. The emotional and intellectual involvement of the interviewee's of Project Camelot range from "cool American" to "righteous human defender" (no offence meant to anyone, apologies) and even though they are talking about complex and only party unveiled topics, it seems obvious that they struggle with their own demons and ignorance.
I do think that James' interview here strips many of the ideas that others so willingly bought into, I do agree with the notion of 'saving ourselves' and many other concepts that dismiss dogmas of any kind. However, I am still left wondering what's left and how this actually ties in with the life I'm leading for obviously if I can't even escape in death, what's the point? And when living, am I to act and stand thoughtless and emotionless at all times or is this just a state to 'ground' me again?

[efields]

Thanks for that. I do have an odd feeling about quite some of the stuff being said. The emotional and intellectual involvement of the interviewee's of Project Camelot range from "cool American" to "righteous human defender" (no offence meant to anyone, apologies) and even though they are talking about complex and only party unveiled topics, it seems obvious that they struggle with their own demons and ignorance.
I do think that James' interview here strips many of the ideas that others so willingly bought into, I do agree with the notion of 'saving ourselves' and many other concepts that dismiss dogmas of any kind. However, I am still left wondering what's left and how this actually ties in with the life I'm leading for obviously if I can't even escape in death, what's the point? And when living, am I to act and stand thoughtless and emotionless at all times or is this just a state to 'ground' me again?


I'd just say that alignment and sincerity along with awareness of the Truth of illusion is all thats necessary in your stillness. Indeed the technique is not new. Its the realization of the lack of levels between you and the oneness, and the need to be wary of including the false profits and imaginary levels stipulated by those 'profits' trapped in the HMS, that are plentiful on this Orb that must be realized, as false, and given no reality in your
thoughts. There is really just You and the Oneness. Really just the Oneness, of which you are a part. Not apart. One with. It's a refreshing perspective as it cuts out all the Junk. You are The Creation and The Creation is you. Simple, Elegant, and Complete.

It's as if we on this Orb, in totality, are really all just 'One cell' In a Organ seen as the 'Universe' which is part of Infinity, which is the Body of which we exist in. Vast is The Creation, all that is.

[idunno]

mayim mayim mayim

Ja mes Mahi Nahi
is it french... 4.... MingDina-st-y?
hmm...

St-k-y ????????????

Phin = a Phi + b
1·61803 39887 49894 84820 45868 34365 63811 77203 09179 80576 ..More.. (http://http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/propsOfPhi.html#phiBrick)

Multiples of Phi
We've just seen that we can use multiples of Phi to calculate its powers easily and you might think that there's not much else we can discover about multiples of Phi.
http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/fibtree.GIF
Here we show another relationship and also explain how the Rabbits family Tree diagram was made, originally seen in the Fibonacci and Nature. It's all to do with the multiples of Phi, or, rather, the fractional parts of the multiples.

[idunno]

Powers of Phi
We return to the definition of Phi, as the positive valued solution to
P(P-1)=1
P here is either of 2 values, Phi and 1-Phi.
So P has the property that P2=P+1.
Let's look at Phi2 first.
Phi squared
We can read the equation above as to find P2, just add 1 to P.
Things to do
-Use your calculator to evaluate Phi=(1+5)/2. If you have a Memory on your calculator, store this value in it.
-Square it and check that it is just Phi+1 (i.e. subtract one and compare with the Memory value).
-Use your calculator to evaluate the other value (1-Phi) or (1-Memory) = (1-5)/2
-Again square the value just found and check that it is just the same as adding 1 to the value you squared.
Now let's look at Phi3.
Phi cubed
Is there another way to calculate Phi3 apart from just Phi x Phi x Phi?
Yes - let's see how to compute it in two more ways. We use the basic P(P-1)=1 formula or, in another form, P2=P+1.
P3 is just P.P2 = P(P+1) by our "basic formula", which expands to P2+P

...now that's interesting!... 1 + P = P2 AND P + P2 = P3 ...hmmm! Is there anything in this do you think?
Question: How could this be generalized? We'll use this result in the next sub-section about a Phi-bonacci Brick... but, for now, let's get back to the original equation...
and P2 + P = (P+1) + P after using the "basic formula" again and this is just 2P + 1. So
Phi3 = 1 + 2 Phi
Notice that this needs just one multiplication rather than two if we evaluated Phi x Phi x Phi. That's the first quick way.
The second answer was spotted by Scott Beach but it is also in the table at the foot of this page: since Phi=(√5+1)/2 then 2Phi is √5+1 and 1+ 2 Phi = &radic 5 + 2:

Phi3 = 2 + √5
Interesting Facts about a Phi-bonacci Brick http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/phiBrick.gif
[This variation was suggested by Hud Nordin of Sunnyvale, California.]
If we have a brick with sides of lengths 1, Phi=1·61803... and phi=1/Phi=0·61803... then:-
the longest side is the sum of the other two lengths since 1 + phi = Phi
the largest face (area C=1 x Phi) is the sum of the other two face's areas (area A =1 x phi and area B=phi x Phi) since
Area A + Area B
= 1 x phi + phi x Phi
= phi + 1
= Phi
= Area C
The next three interesting facts and figures on the Phibonacci brick were first pointed out by Donald Seitz in The Mathematics Teacher, 1986, pages 340-341 in an article entitled A Geometric Figure Relating the Golden Ratio to Pi.
What is the surface area S of the brick?
Above we saw that the sum of the 2 smaller face's areas equals the largest face's area, and that this is Phi.
Since there are 2 faces with smallest area, 2 of middle-sized area (which total 2 times the largest face area, that is 2 Phi) and we also have two other faces of the largest area (Phi) , then:
The surface area of the brick is 4 Phi
How long is the diagonal across the brick?
http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/xyRect.gifAnother surprise awaits us when we calculate the length of the diagonal across the brick.
The formula is a 3-dimensional analogue of Pythagoras Theorem.
For a rectangle of sides x and y, its diagonal is (x2 + y2).
For a 3-D brick with sides x,y and z, its diagonal has length (x2 + y2 + z2).
So how long is the diagonal of our Phi-bonacci brick? Since its sides (x,y and z) are 1, Phi and phi, the length of its diagonal is: (12 + Phi2 + phi2). I'll leave you to check the algebra but the surprisingly simple answer is

The diagonal of the brick has length 2
A relationship between Phi and Pi
Things to do (http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/propsOfPhi.html#phiBrick)
just a
......Quote
TruthSeeker7
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message454148/pg296


TruthSeeker7
User ID: 384266
3/3/2008 2:07 AM Re: 17P/Holmes - Enigma 'Comet' is back in the night skies!
QUOTE

A great sign from the heavens is due. No doubt about it. One final last great sign.


57th TONY AWARDS MAN OF LA MANCHA
[link to youtube.com] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZE4KGB6Wt4&eurl=http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message454148/pg296)

And who knows for sure. Maybe "comet" Holmes is not done.

the above video is about a dream i had and the sign from the heavens.[/QUOTE]
Quoting: * <----star of destiny




Thank you for that

A song for the hero in all of us.

It takes great courage just to live in this day and age.



:welcomeani:a nu n
all is repeated
^n-time ...now
mobius-book.....http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/Pickover/mobius-cover-final.jpg
We Have Died and Gone to Mobius (http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/Pickover/mobius-book.html) ...http://http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/Pickover/josleys2.jpg
or is it from REaM to bbiooas?

[Czymra]

I'd just say that alignment and sincerity along with awareness of the Truth of illusion is all thats necessary in your stillness. Indeed the technique is not new. Its the realization of the lack of levels between you and the oneness, and the need to be wary of including the false profits and imaginary levels stipulated by those 'profits' trapped in the HMS, that are plentiful on this Orb that must be realized, as false, and given no reality in your
thoughts. There is really just You and the Oneness. Really just the Oneness, of which you are a part. Not apart. One with. It's a refreshing perspective as it cuts out all the Junk. You are The Creation and The Creation is you. Simple, Elegant, and Complete.

It's as if we on this Orb, in totality, are really all just 'One cell' In a Organ seen as the 'Universe' which is part of Infinity, which is the Body of which we exist in. Vast is The Creation, all that is.

That's nothing new to me either in fact, maybe that's why I'm confused. It's basically Zen isn't it? (No I don't mean the 'style'.)

[milk and honey]

I do agree with the notion of 'saving ourselves' and many other concepts that dismiss dogmas of any kind. However, I am still left wondering what's left and how this actually ties in with the life I'm leading for obviously if I can't even escape in death, what's the point? And when living, am I to act and stand thoughtless and emotionless at all times or is this just a state to 'ground' me again?
I agree too with the notion of 'saving ourselves'. Salvation = self-elevation.

That was the true message of Jesus, Guatama and many others before and since. It's the very minimum which the false teachers need to parrot in order to have any apparant credibiliy even when they're promising UFO landings and whatnot as external salvation too.

We can escape the lower-ego in death if we escape it in life. It is assumed that the nirvanic state (the soul at-One with the I AM) is soley a passive state of 'knowing' or 'nothingness'. It's also been said that it's a state of non-identity and non activity. These definitions are unbalanced and make it easy to miss something in the translation.

When one finds the centre of being - personal spiritual Selfhood - the ego is no longer active with IT's feelings and IT's thoughts. IT's identity is 'no more' which allows the unobstructed expression of the true Self through the mind and emotions. See the difference? Doesn't mean the christ-consciousness is inactive. The lower-ego (the negative aspects of the psyche) has been inactivated.

On the path to the center, as we get nearer the flame of true being, the subtle emotional and mental bodies are progressively purged of the gross egoistic urges which keep the soul disturbed and ignorant of the higher- Self. In the process, the vibrations of the lower-ego (fear, hatred etc) are transmuted into light and thereby removed as an obstacle to the realisation and expression of true being.

[Gnosis5]

Pardon me, but who told you to spend all day doing the quantum breath? Have you done any sort of spiritual processes in the past?

best,
gnosis




I can see what you mean but speaking/thinking/feeling about it is not going to help it.
So what do I do with the rest of my life when I'm just supposed to sit there and practice the quantum pause. I still need food huh?

[Gnosis5]

Originally Posted by Czymra View Post
I do agree with the notion of 'saving ourselves' and many other concepts that dismiss dogmas of any kind. However, I am still left wondering what's left and how this actually ties in with the life I'm leading for obviously if I can't even escape in death, what's the point? And when living, am I to act and stand thoughtless and emotionless at all times or is this just a state to 'ground' me again?

Czymra, I think that is the best question. When you stand looking at a rollercoaster ride for the first time you can only wonder what it might be like to actually experience it. Then you decide if you wish to pay for that experience. Point, you have to experience it to answer your questions.

Because of the experiences I am paying for (my past life sessions) I know I will not be in any astral or etheric trap, at least not to the extent that I would have been. So, when I drop my body, death will not sting in the astral. In the worst case scenario, I will have to go and find a good family and be born again and continue with my chosen spiritual path. So what if it takes a couple of lifetimes?!?

Stillness of mind makes one more active and more in the now. Thinking and mind chatter slows one down. When I had my still experience I was bounding up the stairs and moving very very fast -- because I was looking in the now and not thinking about it. One can make good judgements just by looking in the now. The mind can keep us in the past or fixated on the future.

As for emotions, one has a richer range and overlay of emotions when they disengage the preset emotions that the mind can handle. Try it, you might enjoy it :original:

That is my experience. I arranged to have this experience and if you really want the answer to your questions then work on having the experience. I would love to read your posts about that.

Myself and a friend experienced this stillness and my friend described it as a tiger ready to pounce and I described it as an avenging angel. The mind is an interactive navigational problem solving tool, but it is a poor copy of an aspect of yourself.

If you don't like the interruption of mind chatter, you can always bring it back :-)

My experience did not last more than 3 days because I did not first fully address the unconscious junk that holds it there in the first place. Thus, no more shortcuts for me and I am trudging through my past life sessions.

STILLNESS OF MIND IS AWESOME!!! :lightsabre:

[Czymra]

Pardon me, but who told you to spend all day doing the quantum breath? Have you done any sort of spiritual processes in the past?

best,
gnosis

Nobody did, but it is made rather clear that what is being talked about is NOT spirituality, so why would I approach it in the same manner?
By the way, I probably haven't been very 'spiritual' in the sense of sitting there and meditating for hours.

[Czymra]

Stillness of mind makes one more active and more in the now. Thinking and mind chatter slows one down. When I had my still experience I was bounding up the stairs and moving very very fast -- because I was looking in the now and not thinking about it. One can make good judgements just by looking in the now. The mind can keep us in the past or fixated on the future.

As for emotions, one has a richer range and overlay of emotions when they disengage the preset emotions that the mind can handle. Try it, you might enjoy it

That makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you for that. I suppose that constant rant against the mind and emotions (that are programmed) made me believe that there are not to be any emotions etc. at all.
But there are two more questions then:
1. Living in the now is great, but how do you make plans in that state? For personal experiences I don't need to make plans but when working on a project I keep on being told it's crucial. And in fact when I don't have plans I might discover fantastic things but I don't end up with anything 'complete'.
2. I have great respect for the idea of 'not feeling' as well. Since you draw your light sabre I might liken it to the idea of Luke Skywalker giving himself away by feeling for his friends and family. He too is supposed to fight without anger or love. Now don't think I'm basing all this on some weird film but I have experienced that 'emotionlessness' just works in a martial arts context, but doesn't it take all the fun out of being?

Sorry if I turn in circles but I really appreciate any input and hope that others can gain from this, as well.

[Czymra]

When one finds the centre of being - personal spiritual Selfhood - the ego is no longer active with IT's feelings and IT's thoughts. IT's identity is 'no more' which allows the unobstructed expression of the true Self through the mind and emotions. See the difference? Doesn't mean the christ-consciousness is inactive. The lower-ego (the negative aspects of the psyche) has been inactivated.

Firstly, sorry for triple posting here.

Milk and Honey, I understand and this does make a difference. It does sound like some scary entity is taking possession of me however and the 'I' (whatever that is, and whatever right it has of being) would be purged and lost. Maybe I'm afraid of losing that along with all my relations?

Thanks for the input, and again sorry for posting so many answer. I'll wait longer next time to combine them.

[Gnosis5]

That makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you for that. I suppose that constant rant against the mind and emotions (that are programmed) made me believe that there are not to be any emotions etc. at all.

I understand :original:


But there are two more questions then:
1. Living in the now is great, but how do you make plans in that state? For personal experiences I don't need to make plans but when working on a project I keep on being told it's crucial. And in fact when I don't have plans I might discover fantastic things but I don't end up with anything 'complete'.

Good question, but I suspect that "planning" might be a way of working through the mind. We are on terra incognita here Isn't it wonderful?! :original:



2. I have great respect for the idea of 'not feeling' as well. Since you draw your light sabre I might liken it to the idea of Luke Skywalker giving himself away by feeling for his friends and family. He too is supposed to fight without anger or love. Now don't think I'm basing all this on some weird film but I have experienced that 'emotionlessness' just works in a martial arts context, but doesn't it take all the fun out of being?

Oh, god, no! In my past life sessions when I go back to before any physical universes (and physical minds) I find that my emotions are much more interesting, richer. The mind needs to be stilled in order to experience a full range of expression and emotions. Polarities need to be unlocked to experience a full range of expression, which is your native gift. I am told that a good Zen Koan will do it. Your mind might be a nifty little gadget that needs some upgrades, but it's not the full you :wall:

Sorry if I turn in circles but I really appreciate any input and hope that others can gain from this, as well.

best,
gnosis

[heroskiss]

Has anyone studied the Course in Miracles and seen the work of James being a more in depth explanation. For me, studying the Course has made me think about the world differently. The Course says, "Do not try and change the world but rather change the way you think about the world".
Studying James material or the Course, one would certainly tend to think about life differently.

The Course also says,
Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.

That would mean religion, spirituality, 3d dimension to 7th dimension or anything else in between doesn't truly exist. If it dies, it doesn't exist. Only what is eternal is real.

If you like James' material, which I do, I think some of you might find the Course in Miracles at the very least.....interesting.

I'm not trying to sell anything here....I find myself looking at it all. Seeing all the paths and finding the commonalities within them. love it!

Thank you to Kerry and Bill and to all of us out their making a difference in the "illusion".

Claudia

[Gnosis5]

Nobody did, but it is made rather clear that what is being talked about is NOT spirituality, so why would I approach it in the same manner?
By the way, I probably haven't been very 'spiritual' in the sense of sitting there and meditating for hours.

Okay, thanks for answering. I see that there is the misconception about what it means to be "spiritual". I'm using myself as an example because I am not as advanced as some of the beings on this forum, so maybe I've done a little more work than yourself but I'm not out of your league :original:

What I see is happening with me as I continue in my sessions is that I am becoming more balanced, have a fuller range of expression and thus can deal with life better. For example, mother just died and I was not in tears and guilt as my brother was. My responses to my Hubby are less fixed, less knee jerk and we do not push each other's buttons the way married couples are wont to :lmao: I don't kick the dog either :original: There are more channels that I can tune into mentally. It's a slow but sure piecing back together of my sovereign integral or my original self, removing the ties that bind.

I'm most decidely not perfect, but I can feel it coming :lightsabre:

[milk and honey]

Firstly, sorry for triple posting here.

Milk and Honey, I understand and this does make a difference. It does sound like some scary entity is taking possession of me however and the 'I' (whatever that is, and whatever right it has of being) would be purged and lost. Maybe I'm afraid of losing that along with all my relations?
It's a gradual process. Only the negative aspects of the psyche are changed by the transformer of spiritual Identity. As you surrender those aspects of the lower-self, the higher-Self displaces or replaces them. So there's a sense of continuity and growth. You change for the best.

The idea that you lose the personal self is untrue. You simply re-discover your real Self as the negative 'skins' of the darker aspects of the ego are shed. During this process your soul in the material plane gradually rises in vibration as your spiritual-Self in the spiritual plane descends into matter to embrace it. The soul is awakening to it's origin. Isn't that beautiful? The more you see the inner raiment of the Spiritual- Self the easier it is to identify and surrender the tattered garments of the lower-ego. In that union of both aspects of being is ecstatic joy, soul liberty and ascension.

[Czymra]

Thanks for all those answers Gnosis and Milk and Honey.

[Gnosis5]

You're most welcome :original: I like Milk 'n Honey's poetic descriptions.

love,
gnosis

[Josefine]

After I read this interview I thought to myself what the point would be. If it is all inside the HMS and the HMS is all 'fake', what would be the point to engage with it. And in fact "James" says that one has to look beyond it. But then don't I cancel out everything that makes life for humans valuable? What about the emotion that keeps us running most of the time? I see that all the negative spectrum is to slave me around but he puts it as if the positive, even though it supposedly heightens my frequency and activates more DNA, shouldn't be bought into either.

I can see purpose of manifesting the 'infinite self' but if the HMS is fake, why manifest on this 'plane' rather than escape completely, if that's at all possible?


Yes, there are inconsistencies in this material from James.
I have taken my time to let it sink in, to digest it, to be precise where I beg to disagree,
James has made this easier by himself stepping on many toes, by seeing many of our most cherised axioms in a different light. And, the way I read him, he does not want to be put on a pedestal with only Ay-sayers milling about.


Let me explain how I differ:
10 years ago the WingMaker material was all the buzz among my friends. I did not study it, just took a cursory look on their webpage. I was deep into other studies. I subsequently heard that it was 'just' an allegory, or an elaborate hoax, depending on the person making a conclusion.
I was able to read this interview now without any foregone conclusions. And I am impressed. This is a most welcome helping hand for humanity at this point in time.

Czymra's comment above is, in fact, very pertinent.

The weak link in this brilliant treatise by James is this: If we, as multidimensional beings have created physical creation, how could we be persuaded to 'jump into' human bodies that had been created by the Annunaki for the purpose of us being their slave laborers?

In my humble opinion, we did not do that. This is not my opinion alone, this description of our early history is what I encountered when I was busy doing something else 10 years ago.
We were told - there have been several of us - that as multidimensional beings we were creators. We also created the human body, in the same manner that we expressed all our other creations: First as a hologram. We made a hologram of the human skeleton, then we used water, and finally we used the material that is now found in coralls. When we had perfected the skeleton, we went on in the same manner, creating all the other systems and organs that comprise a human body. We tested all parts, and when everything was to our satisfaction, this bacame the prototype of a human body.

We incarnatated in human bodies in order to come closer to our other creations, in order to savour and enjoy creation. This was, of course, a risky adventure, the risk of forgetfulness about our true nature and identity.

In the eons that followed many things happened, there were many ages and many stages, many levels of experiencing and of cognition.

One, for us, disasterous development came with our increasing fascination with our beautiful home, planet Earth, and every breathtaking detail of it. In the beginning, we were satisfied with holograms, with fleeting manifestations that were there in the moment, and gone the next.

But as we started to look more outside of ourselves, forgetting to maintain our inner being, we also started to feel ownership to individual, selected parts of creation. We started to feel individual pride in this item or that. and our creations became tangible, physical, more permanent, objects. We focused more and more on outside manifested reality, and neglected our inner reality and connectedness to All.

Our connection to our true identity corroded and gave rise to the petty competitiveness and claims of owneship to parts of manifested reality.
This lowered our level of consiousness, our level of knowledge of All That Is, our knowledge of our Oneness, the knowledge of our true identity as multidimensinal beings.
In this fast lowering state we have been easy prey to all kinds of outside manipulation.
We have been taken advantage of by many races that we perceived to come from outside.
But those who have taken advantage of us, shared our genetic origins. They had departed to other parts of creation, and came back as 'Another Us', in a shape or form that was sufficiently different for us to only see what separated us.

Over the eons, we all started to get the true story wrong, who did what, and when.

Those that departed are coming back to their cradle. They have to do this in order to move on.
We have been multidimensional beings all along. We are multidimentional beings today. It is a matter of realizing what we are.
Our DNA has a virtual part, a takeyonic part, a faster-than-the speed-of-light part. Our DNA is multidimensional. Moreover, we create with out DNA.
With our physical incarnation we are changing physical manifestation. We are doing right it now.

As James said, we have reached an Apex in our created manifestation. If it is likened to a bicycle wheel and the spokes of this wheel can be seen as beams of creation, we have travelled to the outer rim of one such spoke, and there is only one direction left, going back. Dismantling our toys. But not by seeing them as separate, as duality. By loving creation, and enjoying the changes that we are instigating that will change our playing field, however long it takes.

We are in the process of creating a New Universe. This will take time.
The nature of time and space will change completely.
In the meantime we are still here. And we are meant to enjoy our creation, to savour it, to appreciate it. Anything that gives us joy, laughter, and love in all its different aspects is ours to savour. We came to experience all of this. We are sharing our experiences as ONE.
All our feelings and experiences are legitimate and add to the story of our adventure. Even sadness and grief. But we have to make sure we know what we are. Everything seen in the right perspective.

But we have also descended into a hell of disagreeable injustices and inequalitites. False pride and envy and fear led to hate and war. We attacked outside when our inner temple had fallen into ruins.

'The fact that human beings stopped helping each other, has been the worst result of their decline', we were told.

So, thank you for your comment Czymra. Very well put. I have added a response to you and to James.

All for now, in gratitude.

[Gnosis5]

Has anyone studied the Course in Miracles and seen the work of James being a more in depth explanation. For me, studying the Course has made me think about the world differently. The Course says, "Do not try and change the world but rather change the way you think about the world". That appears to be what is happening with me, although I know my limits :original:


Studying James material or the Course, one would certainly tend to think about life differently.

The Course also says,
Nothing real can be threatened.
Nothing unreal exists.
Herein lies the peace of God.

That would mean religion, spirituality, 3d dimension to 7th dimension or anything else in between doesn't truly exist. If it dies, it doesn't exist. Only what is eternal is real.

I can see that, I can see myself as nothingness w/potential and only what I say is real is real, although we rigged that up to be very complicated and not that easy to extricate ourselves from "unconscious reality" at this stage.

If you like James' material, which I do, I think some of you might find the Course in Miracles at the very least.....interesting.

I'm not trying to sell anything here....I find myself looking at it all. Seeing all the paths and finding the commonalities within them. love it!

Thank you to Kerry and Bill and to all of us out their making a difference in the "illusion".

Claudia

please see dialogue within quotes.

[feeler]

False pride and envy and fear led to hate and war.


False pride: Fake moon landing.

False fear: 9/11 false flag.

Both artificially manufactured by the US govt.


-feeler

[Gnosis5]

Yes, there are inconsistencies in this material from James.
I have taken my time to let it sink in, to digest it, to be precise where I beg to disagree,
James has made this easier by himself stepping on many toes, by seeing many of our most cherised axioms in a different light. And, the way I read him, he does not want to be put on a pedestal with only Ay-sayers milling about.


Let me explain how I differ:
10 years ago the WingMaker material was all the buzz among my friends. I did not study it, just took a cursory look on their webpage. I was deep into other studies. I subsequently heard that it was 'just' an allegory, or an elaborate hoax, depending on the person making a conclusion.
I was able to read this interview now without any foregone conclusions. And I am impressed. This is a most welcome helping hand for humanity at this point in time.

I agree, especially if it encourages people to actually do some spiritual processes and actually find out for themselves from their personal "seeing". If this is what James wants the most for others, then I can contribute to him.

Czymra's comment above is, in fact, very pertinent.

The weak link in this brilliant treatise by James is this: If we, as multidimensional beings have created physical creation, how could we be persuaded to 'jump into' human bodies that had been created by the Annunaki for the purpose of us being their slave laborers?

In my past life sessions and the sessions I give to my husband and the remote sessions that we conduct, what I am seeing is that we perceived or were made to perceive that we harmed another(s) and in our self-appallment we agreed to be punished, thus self-punished in truth. No one really did anything to us except what we allowed, but we were taking the wrong path towards absolving our "sins" by allowing ourselves to be stuck with body identities.

I have seen a Reptilian society wherein one must have money in his account to be able to purchase a high class body should anything happen to his current body.

I have seen wholesale implanting of beings into cloned bodies by Annunaki types. I saw a grey being given for the first time a fully functional digestive tract whereas before he had no need of one -- just to keep him occupied as a spirit. So, in my viewings bodies were borne out of someone's wrong idea of a "solution". Bodies are nothing more than compulsive negative energy mass, tons of layers of mass. Yes, I do admire the complexity, the workmanship, much like I might admire the genius of Hannibal Lechter, but eschew his motives.

I'm not saying you are wrong, just that I have not seen that story to be true, although bodies have been sold to us as wonderful items to have.

And, if we all do our spiritual work we may arrive at a point where bodies can be wonderful things to have -- or not have. In the movie "The Blue Angel" about the robot boy with a soul they portrayed a possible future body type. I mean, if we have to have bodies we should have more say over the design, eh?

Others can use the carrot and/or stick approach to get us to agree that bodies are just what we need right now.

When I took my hubby to a best possible future for himself he was in 2099 and he had no body, was creating on a very large scale, and, boy, was he happy :original:

In my humble opinion, we did not do that. This is not my opinion alone, this description of our early history is what I encountered when I was busy doing something else 10 years ago.
We were told - there have been several of us - that as multidimensional beings we were creators. We also created the human body, in the same manner that we expressed all our other creations: First as a hologram. We made a hologram of the human skeleton, then we used water, and finally we used the material that is now found in coralls. When we had perfected the skeleton, we went on in the same manner, creating all the other systems and organs that comprise a human body. We tested all parts, and when everything was to our satisfaction, this bacame the prototype of a human body.

That fits in with what I am seeing in our recent history. Go back a few quadrillion years before physical universes and tell me what you see us doing then. We were all freaking creators!!!

We incarnatated in human bodies in order to come closer to our other creations, in order to savour and enjoy creation. This was, of course, a risky adventure, the risk of forgetfulness about our true nature and identity.

Okay, that's possible, and I agree that it is an adventure. :original: What I am seeing is that we started out working with very fine aesthetics and very gradually could only work with coarser and coarser aesthetics, but, I agree, we wouldn't be here now if we had not on some levels agreed to it or been sold on it.

The sensations and perceptions that a being can savour in a disembodied state are far superior to those he can experience through bodies.


I don't have the total answer, I'm only posting what I have personally seen, not anyone else's cosmology. I wish there were more people doing that.

In the eons that followed many things happened, there were many ages and many stages, many levels of experiencing and of cognition.

One, for us, disasterous development came with our increasing fascination with our beautiful home, planet Earth, and every breathtaking detail of it. In the beginning, we were satisfied with holograms, with fleeting manifestations that was there in the moment, and gone the next.

But as we started to look more outside of ourselves, forgetting to maintain our inner being, we also started to feel ownership to individual, selected parts of creation. We started to feel individual pride in this item or that. and our creations became tangible, physical, more permanent, objects. We focused more and more on outside manifested reality, and neglected our inner reality and connectedness to All.

Our connection to our true identity corroded and gave rise to the petty competitiveness and claims of owneship to parts of manifested reality.
This lowered our level of consiousness, our level of knowledge of All That Is, our knowledge of our Oneness, the knowledge of our true identity as multidimensinal beings.
In this fast lowering state we have been easy prey to all kinds of outside manipulation.
We have been taken advantage of by many races that we perceived to come from outside.
But those who have taken advantage of us, shared our genetic origins. They had departed to other parts of creation, and came back as 'Another Us', in a shape or form that was sufficiently different for us to only see the what separated us.

Over the eons, we all started to get the true story wrong, who did what, and when.

Those that departed are coming back to their cradle. They have to do this in order to move on.
We have been multidimensional beings all along. We are multidimentional beings today. It is a matter of realizing what we are.
Our DNA has a virtual part, a takeyonic part, a faster-than-the speed-of-light part. Our DNA is multidimensional. Moreover, we create with out DNA.
With our physical incarnation we are changing physical manifestation. We are doing right it now.

Bravo, thank you for validating what I know to be true for myself at least. Also, for myself, I see that I have played out this cycle on many prior planets and prior societies, some much like this one. Yes, I am the maker of dimensions and universes and whatever I wish to people those universes with, but I can't for the life of me remember how I did that, lol! :sleep_1:

As James said, we have reached an Apex in our created manifestation. If it is likened to a bicycle wheel and the spokes of this wheel can be seen as beams of creation, we have travelled to the outer rim of one such spoke, and there is only one direction left, going back. Dismantling our toys. But not by seeing them as separate, as duality. By loving creation, and enjoying the changes that we are instigating that will change our playing field, however long it takes.

Yes, there has been a great discussion over at the T4R Yahoo Group about the pole of Player and Playing Field.

We are in the process of creating a New Universe. This will take time.
The nature of time and space will change completely.
In the meantime we are still here. And we are meant to enjoy our creation, to savour it, to appreciate it. Anything that gives us joy, laughter, and love in all its different aspects is ours to savour. We came to experience all of this. We are sharing our experiences as ONE.
All our feelings and experiences are legitimate and add to the story of our adventure. Even sadness and grief. But we have to make sure we know what we are. Everything seen in the right perspective.

But we have also descended into a hell of disagreeable injustices and inequalitites. False pride and envy and fear led to hate and war. We attacked outside when our inner temple had fallen into ruins.

'The fact that human beings stopped helping each other, has been the worst result of their decline', we were told.

True, we have stopped viewing each other as spirits and players and when we deal with another we act as if we are dealing with the physical playing field itself. When you are dead you become part of the playing field, at least your body does. This is another reason why the "winners" do not want us to view ouselves as an essence -- what better way to knock a player out of the game? Make him agree to only be aware of being part of the playing field -- a corruptible body.

So, thank you for your comment Czymra. Very well put. I have added a response to you and to James.

All for now, in gratitude.

I typed my contributions in orange above.

[Czymra]

Quote from Gnosis5
In my past life sessions and the sessions I give to my husband and the remote sessions that we conduct, what I am seeing is that we perceived or were made to perceive that we harmed another(s) and in our self-appallment we agreed to be punished, thus self-punished in truth. No one really did anything to us except what we allowed, but we were taking the wrong path towards absolving our "sins" by allowing ourselves to be stuck with body identities.

I find that hard to believe. If we were so 'mighty' how'd we be suckered into punishing ourselves? That sounds very much like that talk the religions give us in this world.
Your sessions sound out there, I'd be up for that. :wink2:

[feeler]

although bodies have been sold to us as wonderful items to have.


What kind of spirits would be willing to go into the bodies of slaves, mining for gold for the reptilians?


-feeler

[Gnosis5]

Quote from Gnosis5
In my past life sessions and the sessions I give to my husband and the remote sessions that we conduct, what I am seeing is that we perceived or were made to perceive that we harmed another(s) and in our self-appallment we agreed to be punished, thus self-punished in truth. No one really did anything to us except what we allowed, but we were taking the wrong path towards absolving our "sins" by allowing ourselves to be stuck with body identities.

I find that hard to believe. If we were so 'mighty' how'd we be suckered into punishing ourselves? That sounds very much like that talk the religions give us in this world.
Your sessions sound out there, I'd be up for that. :wink2:

I have never viewed myself as "mighty", just a simple being with lots of potential but lacking in experience at that beginning stage of my creative imaginings. What I see is near the beginning (if I have even gotten close to that) my "mistakes" were much less serious and it took me quadrillions of years to get to this level of fixedness and seriousness and not even knowing how I got here in the first place, except for snatching a few views in my sessions and somehow piecing it together.

I hope that answers your question, and I wish everyone would go and look for themselves and find out what they were doing before physical universes. It might give one a lot of "AHA!" moments.

best,
gnosis

[Czymra]

I hope that answers your question, and I wish everyone would go and look for themselves and find out what they were doing before physical universes. It might give one a lot of "AHA!" moments.

best,
gnosis

You bet I would, but I don't seem to have figured how.

[Josefine]

What kind of spirits would be willing to go into the bodies of slaves, mining for gold for the reptilians?


-feeler

Quite! The plot was much thicker:

:rm_robot::rm_robot::rm_robot::rm_robot::rm_robot:

We were in bodies of our own making,
but in a state of forgetfulness as to our true identity
when that happened, as I have suggested.

Remember, all the world is a stage. Sometimes we get carried away!

[Lotus]

The breathing technique recommended by James is also known as square breathing. It's used to help stressed and angry folks calm down. I have used it with kids I work with.

Square Breathing

“Square” breathing is an easy-to-learn and easy-to-use technique for quickly reducing stress.


1. Begin by slowly breathing in for four seconds.
2. Hold your breath for four seconds
3. Slowly breathe out for four seconds
4. wait four seconds

Keep doing this for four minutes.

[Magii]

hey people .. look up the word / phase "GROUP THINK"

I always see alot of that going on ...


But .. here is something that was noted in the interview ..

if u dont scratch your head on it .. and see something is off .. i dunno what to tell u

" led by Anu, the King of the Anunnaki, who required enslaved workers to mine the physical gold that was present on Earth in abundance."

Seriously .. a KING - MULTIVERSE - INTERDIMISIONAL - BEING - needs Physical gold?
:roll1:

[Czymra]

" led by Anu, the King of the Anunnaki, who required enslaved workers to mine the physical gold that was present on Earth in abundance."

Seriously .. a KING - MULTIVERSE - INTERDIMISIONAL - BEING - needs Physical gold?
:roll1:

That made me wonder, too. But what are we lowly creatures to know of the truly worthy materials? Maybe in another universe I could sell my s.... well, you get the idea. :sweatdrop:

[Magii]

That made me wonder, too. But what are we lowly creatures to know of the truly worthy materials? Maybe in another universe I could sell my s.... well, you get the idea. :sweatdrop:

So your able to make the UNIVERSE and then u gotta go to one of the BILLIONZ gazzilioninos planets and mine for gold ?

... isnt that what he was saying ? or am i off somewhere?
:wall:

[Czymra]

Magii, see:

Quite! The plot was much thicker:

:rm_robot::rm_robot::rm_robot::rm_robot::rm_robot:

We were in bodies of our own making,
but in a state of forgetfulness as to our true identity
when that happened, as I have suggested.

Remember, all the world is a stage. Sometimes we get carried away!

And some of Gnosis5 statements. The first and second discourse on the Lyricus homepage might shed more light on 'why we have been so silly' if that is in fact the case.

[Christo888]

I thought it was myth with Truth woven within it. I guess it makes ya think if anything!

[DigitalKid]

kerry, i feel i know these people. it's strange.

like too strange.

you have no idea how much synchronicity has hit me in the face around this interview....



Must say I agree there, this interview really resonated with me, my inner vibrations where going wild at some points.

This guy is genuine and clearly knows his stuff, one of the best interviews by Camelot to date. :original:

[ENdJOY]

Magii...did you read the interview, or just scan it...? James says "The mythology of gold, being the purpose in which Anu manifested this entire system of creation, is only the surface motive. It was a much broader agenda that Anu aspired to: it was being God to all beings"

To fill you in on the legend: It is believed by members of the NSA today, (I just read last year's report) that the Anunaki live on the planet Niburu, which is three times the size of Jupiter, and one orbit (Sar) takes 3,600 of our years...they have created an atmosphere, laden with gold particles, that will maintain heat and light, even at its furthest point from Sol. This artificial atmosphere, needs to be replenished from time to time, and because Earth has a plentiful supply of gold, it was the likely place to mine it...but the Anunaki don't do manual labor, so they got the humans to do it, by altering their DNA.


now back to the point, I am trying to make here... James says that Anu ASPIRED to be god... well that tells you right up front that he knew that he wasn't god...because GOD is god, it doesn't aspire to become what it IS.:lol3:

There is no doubt in my mind that God created Anu, to help the human species progress...he might not have seen it that way, when he altered the DNA of our species...but as we evolved, it has become apparent that this was all part of the plan...and he recognized our potential and at one point tried to destroy us all (Flood) because he was well aware of what we would become.

This line explains the fact that Anu knew exactaly what he was doing:

The motivation was more subtle: it was to enslave the Sovereign Integral consciousness, knowing that it was more powerful, more intelligent, and more aware than even Anu. This was the true motive of Anu – to control that which was greater than he.

now that is something that perhaps you should ponder for a while...we, each have the potential to activate a Sovereign Integral's perspective...which will make us "more powerful, more intelligent, and more aware than even Anu" ...and James tells us that those who have discovered this ability withIN themSelves, have reached a critical mass... and this is why Anu has abandoned his future plans concerning our species, because it is too late to stop our re-organization of FIRST SOURCE... and fulfilling our destiny as the true heirs of the "kingdom"... :naughty:

[Christina Sila]

Milk and honey:

As you indicated above, “quantum pause” breathing may not be anything new, however it is new to me. I’m delighted that James offered up the recommendation for the practice of quantum pause breathing, for I’m now integrating that into the disciplines I’ve already embraced. And you’re correct in that the utility of quantum pause does not prove that GSSC = HMS.

I guess what I really wanted to say in the brief post above is that rather than attacking any of the James interview content that shakes my belief system, I chose to take what seems useful to me and leave the rest… for now.

[piers2210]

Endjoy, I like what you say.

Like i said on another thread, this was a brilliant, unique interview, for which we should be grateful to Camelot. However it will be hard for most people who are grounded in religion and spiritual teachings to take on board. Thankfully i can't stand religion.

Of course most people have never heard of Anu and the Annunaki, and even those who have have had to witness vicious trashing of the works of people like Sitchin and Michael Templeton.

Nothing is provable for sure, "proven" science is constantly being unproved, and we don't know the answers to basic questions like who we are, why we're here etc.

So this interview is where i'm going now.....i'm not going to worry about unbelievers. And i like the breathing programme too. Sounds great.....i need it.

[ENdJOY]

The breathing technique recommended by James is also known as square breathing. It's used to help stressed and angry folks calm down. I have used it with kids I work with.

Square Breathing

“Square” breathing is an easy-to-learn and easy-to-use technique for quickly reducing stress.


1. Begin by slowly breathing in for four seconds.
2. Hold your breath for four seconds
3. Slowly breathe out for four seconds
4. wait four seconds

Keep doing this for four minutes.

close but no cigar :smoke:

there is a period between each set of four...where you breath normally... for up to five minutes (Consolidation Period)
It is amazing how much people miss, when they think they already know ... no doubt the "Square" breathing serves a purpose, but does it allow you to "enter the quantum domain."?


http://www.projectcamelot.org/quantum_pause_1_short.gif

One cycle is described above, and it is recommended to do three to four cycles in a row and then return to normal breathing. This “normal” breathing period is called the Consolidation period. Keep your eyes closed throughout the process and sit with your back straight in a comfortable position, both feet on the ground. When you begin your consolidation period, it is a time for you to bring focus and all of your attention to those things that bubble to the surface of your consciousness, knowing that these arise for a reason. This is an excellent time to apply the Six Heart Virtues (appreciation, compassion, forgiveness, humility, valor, and understanding) to any thought or feeling that manifests.

This consolidation period usually lasts about three to five minutes, but there are no set time limits. Use your intuition to guide this period of time. Generally, each repetition of the consolidation, and usually there are four or five, becomes less crowded with thoughts or feelings, and by the time you enter the final consolidation period you have emptied yourself of thoughts and feelings and entered the quantum domain.

The diagram below depicts a typical session of Quantum Pause. Notice there are three cycles of the breath and then a consolidation period in this particular example. This repeats four times. You can have as many as five cycles of breath interspersed with consolidation periods, again, symmetry is important.

http://www.projectcamelot.org/quantum_pause_1_long.gif

[ENdJOY]

I thought it was myth with Truth woven within it. I guess it makes ya think if anything!


you are quite right, but your understanding of "myth" may need to be updated:original:

"I did not create a myth; I translated a Tributary Zone into a sensory data stream that can catalyze the human thalamocortical system to awaken its innate connection to the Genetic Mind. I refer to it as a mythology only because I must convey -- in good conscience -- that the material is not completely factual."


"The story (Ancient Arrow Book) contains scenarios that are fictional accounts of factual occurrences."


Question 8: If the WingMakers story is both truth and fiction, how are we to discern which is which? If the identity of the WingMakers is quite authentic (i.e. true), how can it also be myth (i.e. fiction)?

Buddha stated: "All reality is a myth. Myth becomes ever nearer to reality." The quality of one's discernment is proportional to their ability to accelerate their movement to the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness. A system of philosophy like the WingMakers requires a high-level of discernment, and it is therefore teaching on multiple levels simultaneously by intermixing truth and fiction.

This material is not meant for the weak of mind or lazy of heart. It is extremely challenging on many different levels, discernment being one of them. There is a significant amount of information encoded into the art and music that bypasses the conscious mind. In this way, discernment is not required. However, the Ancient Arrow Project story is indeed fiction based on acquired insight of factual scenarios.

[Christina Sila]

ENdJOY~
Yes, that’s what i'm talking about, that's precisely the breathing pattern I’m beginning to practice in the mornings, and /or do some yoga stretching before heading out into the snow to travel 7 miles to the office for 8 or 9 hours (a regular worker bee slave, huh?). A key point in the practice is posture, “sit with your back straight in a comfortable position, both feet on the ground.” I found that when sitting in bed and leaning against a wall I’m more apt doze off and then wake up an hour latter. The breathing pattern is relaxing enough. Heh. While sitting comfortably in a chair with feet grounded to the floor, I can easily focus on (3) four count cycles followed with normal breathing, repeated four times, and not fall asleep. No consciousness shift yet. ~grins~

[milk and honey]

What kind of spirits would be willing to go into the bodies of slaves, mining for gold for the reptilians?


-feeler
I s'pose it was rhetorical but the short answer is, none.

There may be some validity to the idea that aliens genetically interfered with the human race and that they also cloned humans as fodder for their own uses. But that's a far cry from claiming that they created the human race.

We're also being told by a gaggle of channelled sources that benevolent aliens in UFOs created the human race and that they're now returning - as our parents - to genetically facilitate the next evolutionary leap in consciousness.

As i see it, both are lies.

Both promote the pretense that they are the originators of our genetic code and that consequently we're now dependent (on the 'good alien faction' at least) on a tweak to our DNA - courtesy of their technology - to take the next evolutionary leap. What would we do without them?

All that has likely ever happened is the theft and manipulation of the genes of ancient humans which leaves us now to sort through competing claims of "creation" in ancient and modern texts. And they are competing accounts not merely our own failure to recognise the aliens in UFOs as our parents.

The soul - in matter - is a connected projection from the spiritual Self - in spirit. Each individuality (individed-duality) is the loving creation of even greater spiritual beings in the spiritual plane.... The Elohim. Those beings are far beyond the need for any technologies in the material plane. They create soley by the power of Spiritual Mind and as replicas of their identity, so can we. We have it deep within us to develop the same intelligence and power but the potential is dormant and unrealised in most of humanity.

It hasn't always been that way. The true history of the planet will show (not the phony history of humans as mere slaves) that there have been times when large numbers of us had highly developed our creative powers. In Lemurian times and later Atlantis, we walked in the light of divine Identity because we had discovered it and honoured it within ourselves and in the lives of others. That grace was reflected in our societal institutions and in all our daily affairs. But it didn't last.

For lack of honor and attunement with the interior Spirit, and the abuse of our knowledge and power, almost everyone fell into discord and strife with each other and consequently both civilisations were eventually destroyed. The inner truth became a still small voice where once it had saturated our awareness and graced our lives with power, wisdom and love. In many, even the still small voice was snuffed out. And here we are today, relatively ignorant and vulnerable to disinfo about our identity and origin in Spirit and the path of our sojourn in matter, waxing and waning in Self-knowledge as it has.

I suggested earlier that "the short answer is none". The longer answer is that yes, slaves were most likely engineered and their offspring are most likely still with us today as easily manipulated fodder. As for the rest of us, we have lost our Lemurian inheritance (our divine Identity). A man or woman stripped of Self-knowledge becomes a slave to the ignorance and vanity of the outer self. A person in that fallen state is compelled to re-incarnate because they have 'karma', made by harming others while in that state of ignorance. Service must be rendered to bring balance to the law of cause and effect.

[milk and honey]

hey people .. look up the word / phase "GROUP THINK"

I always see alot of that going on ...


But .. here is something that was noted in the interview ..

if u dont scratch your head on it .. and see something is off .. i dunno what to tell u

" led by Anu, the King of the Anunnaki, who required enslaved workers to mine the physical gold that was present on Earth in abundance."

Seriously .. a KING - MULTIVERSE - INTERDIMISIONAL - BEING - needs Physical gold?
:roll1:
Absolutely. You could drive a truck through a hole like that. :lmao:

[milk and honey]

Milk and honey:

As you indicated above, “quantum pause” breathing may not be anything new, however it is new to me. I’m delighted that James offered up the recommendation for the practice of quantum pause breathing, for I’m now integrating that into the disciplines I’ve already embraced. And you’re correct in that the utility of quantum pause does not prove that GSSC = HMS.
It doesn't concern you that James "translated" the technique from the "tributary zone" for the first time ever? - after a portal opened in 1998 for the first time ever?

I guess what I really wanted to say in the brief post above is that rather than attacking any of the James interview content that shakes my belief system, I chose to take what seems useful to me and leave the rest… for now.
I'm not 'attacking' James by exposing his hypocrisy, his plaigerism, his dis-ingenuity and his shillery for the PTB.

Secondly, you assume that any such commentary of my own must be based merely on my personal beliefs being shaken by the WMM. Have you considered that the WMM is based on plaigerism, internet conspiracies and James' personal beliefs? And that considering some of the other things he has to say in support of the agenda of the PTB that his motive is questionable? Or the possibility that my own commentary is based on truth rather than belief?

[milk and honey]

close but no cigar :smoke:

there is a period between each set of four...where you breath normally... for up to five minutes (Consolidation Period)
It is amazing how much people miss, when they think they already know ... no doubt the "Square" breathing serves a purpose, but does it allow you to "enter the quantum domain."?


One cycle is described above, and it is recommended to do three to four cycles in a row and then return to normal breathing. This “normal” breathing period is called the Consolidation period. Keep your eyes closed throughout the process and sit with your back straight in a comfortable position, both feet on the ground. When you begin your consolidation period, it is a time for you to bring focus and all of your attention to those things that bubble to the surface of your consciousness, knowing that these arise for a reason. This is an excellent time to apply the Six Heart Virtues (appreciation, compassion, forgiveness, humility, valor, and understanding) to any thought or feeling that manifests.

This consolidation period usually lasts about three to five minutes, but there are no set time limits. Use your intuition to guide this period of time. Generally, each repetition of the consolidation, and usually there are four or five, becomes less crowded with thoughts or feelings, and by the time you enter the final consolidation period you have emptied yourself of thoughts and feelings and entered the quantum domain.
FYI the breathing technique obviously requires periods of normal breathing in between. If you're supposing, or James' pretending, that only the exact cycles which he recommends will bring results in the "sacred fire breath" / "square breathing" / SRF's "energisation exercises" / "quantum pause" then you're mistaken. The adepts who released the technique are not stupid. They were not about to term it a "quantum effect" in a world which knew nothing of modern scientific terms. But they did use terms which James doesn't use but which add even more understanding to the anatomy of the 'quantum' effect.

[milk and honey]

you are quite right, but your understanding of "myth" may need to be updated:original:

"I did not create a myth; I translated a Tributary Zone into a sensory data stream that can catalyze the human thalamocortical system to awaken its innate connection to the Genetic Mind. I refer to it as a mythology only because I must convey -- in good conscience -- that the material is not completely factual."
When he could no longer sustain the charade, James admitted that the WMM is not completely factual. He was heavily pressured to do so by public disbelief but he didn't go far enough. His good conscience still sleeps while he maintains that his source is anything but a perusal of the religious and metaphysical literature of the world and all the conspiracy theories we've all read. Conscience slumbers on while James maintains that he remote viewed the nuts and bolts of his story, claiming them as 'fictional accounts' of 'factual occurences'. And: "aquired info" of "factual scenarios". He remote viewed the 'factual occurances'? By James' account, apparantly so but mind you it was no ordinary "remote viewing'. It's a type of RM that is virtually unique to James. As are all his other extraordinarly unique powers.

Question 8: If the WingMakers story is both truth and fiction, how are we to discern which is which? If the identity of the WingMakers is quite authentic (i.e. true), how can it also be myth (i.e. fiction)?

Buddha stated: "All reality is a myth. Myth becomes ever nearer to reality. "The quality of one's discernment is proportional to their ability to accelerate their movement to the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness. A system of philosophy like the WingMakers requires a high-level of discernment, and it is therefore teaching on multiple levels simultaneously by intermixing truth and fiction.
"All reality is a myth to the 'egoic mind' while all farce occupies it's fancy.
Reality - what the 'egoic mind' thinks is myth - is revealed as one awakens to Buddhic Mind."

Yes, a high level of discernment is required to know WMM as it really is. Same goes for many other religious and metaphysical materials because they do teach on multiple levels simultaneously, sometimes mixing truth with fiction too. But two things about this:

First, it appears to me that the reason you frequently repeat the necessity for high discernment is because you're really saying; "If you have any objection whatever to the WMM then you simply are not discerning enough. You're just not going deep enough. Those of us who have no objections are the most discerning. So let me repeat again, you do need a high level......."

That is the constant rejoinder used to deal with all objections: "You are the problem. There is no problem with the WMM."

Well it can sometimes be the case when dealing with concepts of truth that greater depth of perception is needed to discern them. But when one has gone within and discerned the origin of the concepts in the WMM, including the truths and the lies then one cannot be swayed by the repetition of your continual admonishments. While the admonishment is not out of place in a scenario where truth is presented it is just mind control when associated with half-truths, lies and plaigerised truths used to sell a bigger lie.

A few of your statements for example:

"This material is not meant for the weak of mind or lazy of heart."

"It is extremely challenging on many different levels, discernment being one of them."

"There is a significant amount of information encoded into the art and music that bypasses the conscious mind."

If anyone has any objections at all to any aspect of the WMM we are dismissed as:

"weak minded"

"lazy hearted"

"not up to the challenge"

"undiscerning".

"attacking James" .... etc

Do you know that all music is encoded with information that bypasses the conscious mind? Some of it will shred the subtle bodies, while others can take you to sublime states. In that state there is a 'significant amount of information' available. Same goes for some art.

Once again the WM Music and Art is presented as singularly unique in that regard just like so much of James info and personal powers. We'd be toast without him.

But back to the point i began earlier from this quote: .... the WMM requires a high level of discernment and it is therefore teaching on multiple levels simultaneously by intermixing truth and fiction.

Much of the religious and metaphysical literature (+ art and music) is teaching on multi-levels simultaneously and does require high discernment, i agree. We do not need to overly concern ourselves with splitting fact from fiction if they serve each other well and are well intentioned. But mixing truth with half-truths, palaigered truths, false claimed events 'remote viewed', lying about conspiracy "facts", psuedo science and unprecedented unique personal powers is a totally different matter. So let's not characterise all objections to the WMM as merely objecting to reasonable artistic license. My own objections certainly have not been confined to that.

[ENdJOY]

I do understand where you are coming from Milk and Honey... your name says it all...:wink2:

I have been there...and done that...but my mind remained open and receptive, and yes, It is stated clearly in the paper associated with the music, that there are (inaudible) tones embedded in the music that were placed there specifically to activate a "transformation" that will restore the original template of the SECU... the Chamber 10 music is the "trigger" for this activation...but it is not to be assumed that this is a light switch, there is much more work to do, on a personal level, to facilitate the "complete" transformation and only the super charged energy of the Galactic sun will give us "full" activation of the Source Codes.

you may believe this or not... but only the perspective of the Sovereign Integral state of conscious, will allow one to grasp these concepts and to fully understand the purpose of the Wingmaker's experience...until then they will remain "unknown" ... this "vision" is far to big for the MIND to comprehend.

[Czymra]

Way to go Milk and Honey. I'm a 100% with you. In fact you said all those things that laid on my tongue but couldn't be bothered to put down in writing or find the right words for.

I do however also respect that there might be more to the story as EndJoy puts it. It is sadly a universal truth that the recipient needs to be ready to receive the message, otherwise it's all wasted. The question is how can one become ready and why is it so darn difficult?

Anyway, something I'd like to ask since it appears here: You are talking about these inaudible tones. I'm confused. I've been trying to find material on subliminal messages and have found next to nothing that gave any sensical account of such. In fact anything that works subconscously that I found explanations for so far is NLP. Also, why would those inaudible tones be guaranteed to be heard by me? My speakers are probably designed to resound the frequencies I CAN hear and not necessarily those that are in those melodies and even if I hear them, can you give me a nudge in the right direction that help me find out how that works?
I'm a film maker and highly interested in this stuff but really have found quite little of substance on the matter.

[ENdJOY]

Bless you Czymra, for your open mind, and williness to explore !
I would suggest that you go to the Monroe Institute, to begin your research they have been investigating subliminal frequencies for many years now... here are some links....

http://www.hemi-sync.com/store/home.php
http://www.monroeinstitute.com/

James is quite open about telling everyone that his music does contain "subliminal" tones specifically designed to stimulate activation of junk/dormant DNA and other purposes... some snips from the Music Section of the WM's webpage: http://www.wingmakers.com/music-hakomi4-6.html

There are references in virtually all religious texts, as well as physics and cosmology that describe – however obliquely – the Para Vach. In the Bible it is the Word made flesh; it is the Nada of the Upanishads; the Kalma-I-ilahi or inner sound of the Koran; the HU of the Sufi; the music of the spheres in Pythagorean philosophy; it is Fohat in Buddhism; and the Kwan-Yin-Tien in Chinese mysticism. Regardless of its name or precise definition, it is the fundamental cause of all sound and light within the Grand Universe, which in turn is the fundamental cause of all manifestation.

...

Sacred music, chants, mantras, and harmonic vibrations are the countervailing effect of this vibratory density, and it is the most potent way in which to direct and uphold the inherent harmony of the Interface Zone that surrounds each of us. In a meditative state, the sound of one’s voice chanting a mantra or the sacred name of First Source is very powerful, particularly if one is actively visualizing and imagining a harmonious Interface Zone.

There are melody lines embedded within the music of Hakomi Chambers 4-6 that can be internalized and used as a harmonic “broom” to sweep the denser vibrations that may have accumulated within your Interface Zone.

[ENdJOY]

Milk and Honey, I am not here to debate you...so you can put your guns away...I respect you opinions, and defend you right to state them...I have no agenda here other than to share my own experiences...and to present them using the original "language" that introduce the concepts to me.

I am amazed at how many "intellects" are willing to tell you what something tastes LIKE, without every having experienced it...thinking that by comparing it to something else it will define its unique flavor. :naughty:

do you really expect anyone to take your word for fact, when you have not experienced the WM's materials? I do wonder why you are so intent on keep others from trying it on for themselves...when you have not even tried it for yourself.

Lyricus Discourse 1
Experiencing the Wholeness Navigator

Student: What prevents me from experiencing my innermost self?

Teacher: Nothing.

Student: Then why don’t I experience it?

Teacher: Fear.

Student: So, then fear prevents me?

Teacher: Nothing prevents you.

Student: But didn’t you just say that fear is the reason I can’t experience this state of consciousness?

Teacher: Yes, but it does not prevent you.

Student: Then what does?

Teacher: Nothing.

Student: Then what role does fear play?

Teacher: If you are in prison, what do you fear most when you dream of being liberated?

Student: Returning to prison… So, you’re saying that I fear experiencing my inmost self because I will return to my ignorance.

Teacher: No. I am saying that your fear of ignorance holds you in ignorance.

[Czymra]

Milk and Honey, I am not here to debate you...so you can put your guns away...I respect you opinions, and defend you right to state them...I have no agenda here other than to share my own experiences...and to present them using the original "language" that introduce the concepts to me.

I am amazed at how many "intellects" are willing to tell you what something tastes LIKE, without every having experienced it...thinking that by comparing it to something else it will define its unique flavor. :naughty:

do you really expect anyone to take your word for fact, when you have not experienced the WM's materials? I do wonder why you are so intent on keep others from trying it on for themselves...when you have not even tried it for yourself.

Again, I have to agree with you EndJoy. In fact, most of you speak so straight from the heart it would be difficult not to. I find it very interesting however because it seems that both of you (if you would accept my most humble perspective) are true followers of that (spiritual) path toward what we call 'truth'. The fine line however seems to be that Milk and Honey tries to judge whether some practices are 'worth the effort'. I suppose that springs from the wish to prevent wasting one's time with a teacher or a teaching that could possibly just be someone's phantasm.
In fact I myself have experienced this first hand, and many of you also I am certain, are very aware of those shammers that invent their religions and spiritualism for the sake of control and power they gain over their followers.
I too was weary of the 'arrogance' that James' interview seemed to project, even though it seems full of generously elongated explanations of 'yet again the same issue'. Some of this is necessary in order to shatter the old notions, however, how many wrong preachers had we already had that keep on telling you that what they say is 'completely different' from any other teaching.
This is all well and good and the discourse you quoted rings deep especially within me and I was exhilarated when I found that section just last night. I can also stand with the fact of mixing up fact and fiction, but the fact/fiction that James is incognito, leading people to believe that he could be an 'alien' or a 'time traveller' puts me off. Clearly, when you put such a message out and hide yourself behind a mask, you have the perfect setup for another mystic religion already.

Also, having just dived into the WMM myself, I don't understand how his old teachings can tie in with the new ones.

[ENdJOY]

Thank you, Czymra, for your understanding...yes, I can relate to "the search" that truth seekers are on. I spent two decades looking for "the true church" dabbling in and out of New Age propaganda and did not find it...another five years studying Kaballah for the "origins"...so by the time I got around to the WM's materials, I was pretty skeptical...but my heart lept for joy...the resonance was astounding, and I have never been one to deny my heart, it is what I have been following all my life.

Maybe because I didn't hesitate to trigger the transformation, I avoided all the doubt that my fellow travelers have ... It works for me... if you take it step by step this is "the proven way"...and it just keeps getting better all the time... at least that has been my experience, each person is unique.

As for James...you might want to listen to his interview with Mark, that tells about his child hood... he has never claimed to be anything other than Human, with a mission...many assume he is an ET...but the WMs are not ETs either, according to this latest interview.

Here is how he answers that question...I found it endearing.

Question 5: Are you a 'Master' as some proclaim?

There are so many definitions of the term "master" that I am not willing to say I am this, or I am not this, unless a definition accompanies the word. Since you did not provide a definition with your question, I will not provide an answer. I will, however, acknowledge the spirit of your question, which is: what am I?

In this regard I am as you are. I am a multidimensional being who lives simultaneously in a spectrum of realities. My dominant reality is different than yours. Because of this difference, I am able to process this human reality at a different frequency rate, which enables me to perceive behind and beyond the three-dimensional "surface" of this reality.

As a result of this ability, I am able to translate art, music, poetry, philosophy, and scientific insights that are from my dominant reality into yours. In so doing, I have translated sensory data that will catalyze future discoveries that will redefine the human soul.

Now, does this mean I am a master? I am simply performing the exact function I was created to perform. The output of personal behavior is always compared to the goal of your internal expectation and the output of your fellow man. This is typically how we are measured, are we not? There is no measure or comparison for the crystallized and absolutely individualized purpose of one who is operating in faultless accord to his or her purpose. "Masters" abound in the human arena. Some are excellent teachers, but very, very few teach how to transition from the human-mind dominant reality to that of the human-soul . Even fewer teach how to transition to the awareness and functionality of the Sovereign Integral state. One thing I can tell you, trust no one's proclamation, instead, examine in-depth the fruits of the supposed master and determine how they empower you to become your own self-sufficient teacher.

If you can find this, then you have found a master worthy of your time and energy.

[Gnosis5]

Why worry about what someone else says when you have the ability within you to go and look at truths for yourself? That is one truth James spoke and I'm sticking by it, lol.

cheers!
Gnosis

[LoVeloO]

ENdJOY = starduster = BLECK

[ENdJOY]

"Observance of Source in All Things is the principle that all manifestations of life convey an expression of First Source. It does not matter how far the unifying energy has been distorted or perverted; the Source can be observed. It is the action of perceiving the unification of energy even when the outward manifestations appear random, distorted, unrelated, or chaotic."

http://www.wingmakers.com/philosophy1.html

[Shanders]

Has anyone read the material at www.xeeatwelve.com I have found many similarities between James interview info and the material presented on this website. This website goes well into the Annunaki creators and their programmed prison that keeps light beings trapped within the system. The system is described as 12 pentagon shaped universes facing inside a dodecahedron shaped sphere creating the virtual reality's within virtual realities that James described. The light beings, who were pure and unaccustomed to deception, were tricked inside before the door slammed shut so to speak, at which time they were forced into an endless cycle of death and reincarnation.

http://www.xeeatwelve.com/articles/twelve_universes_pentagons.html

It is an interesting read and while no one has the whole truth many hold a piece.

In Peace

Shanders

[Czymra]

On the issue of slaves, I've just come across this brilliant quote from Gregg Braden's Beyond Zero Point (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ihae49wiyLQ&NR=1)

[Blessing is] the ancient promise given by those who have come before us; that each soul survives the 'darkest' moments of life, to return home once again, intact and with grace.

I thought that's a nice round off. Then again, is this inside our outside the HMS?

[ENdJOY]

I have always thought that Gregg Braden has a Sovereign Integral's perspective. In the Q and As in the website, James says that there are less than a dozen members of the LTO scattered withIN the Hierarchy, (because they can actually make changes only if they are inside) and Gregg is doing more than any mainstream scientist, I know of, to bring religion and science together, IMO more than anyone else...sure, what Scientist would want to discover the "soul"... my money is on Gregg actually doing it... he blew my mind with the "God Code" :original:

I think Ron Paul might have a Sovereign Integral's perspective focused on politics...wow, he is one straight shooter and appears to be bullet proof.

James also says that there are almost 100,000 incarnates here now, that loosely walking the walk... that is good to know, at least I think so and I was very encouraged when he said that we were reaching a "critical mass" in the PC interview...here is the quote, snipped from A 21

As more individual expressions align to First Source, and dedicate their self-expression as an outflow from the Sovereign Integral, this new awareness and capability transfers to all life. In other words, the Quantum Presence transmits, and as it transmits, it transforms the whole. To be sure, this is a process and takes eons of time, but it is now reaching a critical mass within Earth, Nature and humanity.



snipped from Question 17 in session 3 on the website (link below)

That said, I understand the nature of your question, and I will give you some general guidelines. There are slightly fewer than 100,000 initiates who are presently incarnated upon earth who are following the Wisdom Path loosely established by the Hierarchy. That is to say, they are following the principles as set forth by the masters and practicing these principles in their day-to-day life. Not impeccably, but with the human qualities of inconsistency.

However, within the next three generations, an influx of advanced souls will be incarnating within terra-earth. We call this influx: Symmetry of Spheres. These advanced souls (most from outside this solar system) will be encoded with predispositions of transformation. By the year 2080, they will be over 200 million strong. These are the transformers who will bring symmetry to the asymmetrical physical and emotional realms. It will be the leaders of this movement that will be responsible for the discovery and irrefutable proof of the human soul.

this comes from Answer 14

I will tell you that there are approximately 165 masters (6th initiates and above) who are physically present on terra-earth, and who operate as the vanguard of the spiritual corps, mostly through ashramic activities. There are some masters who have ventured outside of the relative anonymity and protection of the ashram, but these number less than a dozen, and apart from one name, you would not recognize them ...

http://www.wingmakers.com/answersfromjames.html

[asteram]

Transparency

I consider George Gurdjieff the "father" of my outlook towards self realization; before I came across his methods in my late teens I had already looked in a number of places that required a bit too much to be taken on faith or swallowed entire, all or nothing. Gurdjieff taught the fourth way, the way of the sly fox. One takes what one can use from whatever source.

I first heard of the Wingmakers material in 1998, gave one of the interviews a perfunctory look, and dismissed it as another of the alien contact accounts the likes of which I had read often before. Then in the summer of 2000 an old friend handed me a hardcopy printout of the interviews and supporting material from the site, saying they thought I might find it interesting. I started reading it and began to understand the story for the first time, though I didn't find it convincing or see any need to believe it or disbelieve it. I found it entertaining but not greatly so, until I came to the Life Principles of the Sovereign Integral. That got my attention, and has held it ever since:

"The entity model of expression is designed to explore new fields of vibration through biological instruments and transform through this process of discovery to a new level of understanding and expression as a Sovereign Integral. The Sovereign Integral is the fullest expression of the entity model within the time/space universes, and most closely exemplifies Source Intelligence's capabilities therein. It is also the natural state of existence of the entity that has transformed beyond the the evolution/saviorship model of existence and has removed itself from the controlling aspects of the Hierarchy through the complete activation of its embedded Source Codes. This is the level of capability that was "seeded" within the entity model of expression when it was initially conceived by Prime Creator........

The transformational experience is the realization that the entity model of expression is capable of direct access to Source Intelligence information, and that the information of Prime Creator is discovered within the entity level of the Sovereign Integral. In other words, the human instrument, complete with its biological, emotional, and mental capabilities, is not the repository of the entity's Source Codes........

....... Source Reality and sovereign reality become inseparable as wind and air. This confluence is realized only through the transformational experience, which is unlike anything known within the time-space universes.

There have been those upon terra-earth who have experienced a shallow breath of wind from this powerful tempest. Some have called it ascension, others have attributed names like illumination, vision, enlightenment, nirvana, and cosmic consciousness. While these experiences are profound in human standards, they are only the initial stirrings of the Sovereign Integral........What most species define as the ultimate bliss is merely the impression of the Sovereign Integral whispering to its outposts of form.....

The transformational experience is far beyond the calibration of the human drama much like the stars in the sky are beyond the touch of terra-earth."

What was this?? This was not anything I had been exposed to before:

transformed beyond the the evolution/saviorship model of existence?

removed itself from the controlling aspects of the Hierarchy?

the complete activation of its embedded Source Codes?

No evolution or savior needed? No Hierarchy either? And the human instrument is not the repository of what Source Codes?

This was new. This was very new. In 2000 I was 48 years old. I had read and studied hard; attended, for years, an esoteric school that imposed harsh disciplines; opened and experienced the seven seals, wandered alone in the wilderness, taken all of the plants and drugs to experience alternate doors of perception. I had never come across these concepts before.

The daring! The nerve of making the claim that the highest spiritual experiences of humanity were merely a shallow breath of wind! That one could move beyond the control of the spiritual Hierarchy! Heresy was what it was, and it charmed this born heretic to his toes. This was not your grandmother's enlightenment.

Reading further, the heresy became, well, even more heretical, culminating in this outrageous equation:

Entity + Source Intelligence = Prime Creator equality.

*******

Already this is too long a post. I'll end it with the observation that there is much, much more to the WingMakers than the criticisms being leveled here so far. What do you know of the transformation of body consciousness that happens through dancing to the music of seven chambers? Where are these Source Codes embedded if they are not embedded in the human instrument? How is the tone/vibration of equality perceived and in what direction is its source?

[milk and honey]

TRANSPARENCY

I found it (WMM) entertaining but not greatly so, until I came to the Life Principles of the Sovereign Integral. That got my attention, and has held it ever since:

[I]"The entity model of expression is designed to explore new fields of vibration through biological instruments and transform through this process of discovery to a new level of understanding and expression as a Sovereign Integral."
True. Nothing new here. Elohim created billions of lifestreams in God's image. Each individal I AM Presence ("Sovereign Integral") was created as a fractal of the ONE. Each I AM Presence then projected a soul into materiality (into biological instruments) to experience the vibrational fields of matter. By doing so, each I AM Presence could express Itself Both in Spirit AND matter to the extent that the soul awakens and gives expression to it's source... the I AM.

"The Sovereign Integral is the fullest expression of the entity model within the time/space universes, and most closely exemplifies Source Intelligence's capabilities therein."
True. Nothing new here either. The I AM Presence / the Father / Brahma / Sovereign Integral / is actually 'rooted' beyond the time/space universes in the spiritual universe. It's Will is to (vibrationallly) descend into the receptive soul and express the Whole Identity through the 'cup' of matter to "fill the earth (plane) with the glow-ray of the LORD" (the I AM).

"It is also the natural state of existence of the entity that has transformed beyond the the evolution/saviorship model of existence and has removed itself from the controlling aspects of the Hierarchy through the complete activation of its embedded Source Codes. This is the level of capability that was "seeded" within the entity model of expression when it was initially conceived by Prime Creator........
In this paragraph James is trying to use one concept of truth - which i've already established is nothing new - to give a backhander to 3 more concepts of truth. His desire to excise the 'familiar' is evident throughout the whole WMM. He has established his own brands for age old concepts which he has mis-defined and mis-represented with such surgical precision i am sure it's deliberate. To explain:

1) Evolution -- James speaks of the soul's spiritual awakening as the "activation of source codes" which is basically just another new brand for the chakras. The awakening of the soul (to the I AM) is a process that comes to a point of "combustion" and rapid acceleration of the evolution of the soul. In truth, the soul realises the I AM by degrees until conscious Oneness is perfected. That is why the process has been called "the Path". The soul evolves by a process of initiation to attain full realisation of the "Godhead" as Self. The chakras are activated by the spiritual self in the process.

To dismiss the concept of 'evolution' where it relates to the soul's journey back to (the self-realisation of) God is semantic rubbish. It allows James to pretend that everyone else who ever referred to the term 'evolution' for spiritual growth is less evolved than himself who, as he loves to presume, is uniquely wise in these matters.

2) Saviorship -- Although he was the "messiah" prophesied in the old texts, Jesus never taught the fundamentalist christian misunderstanding that his human personality is the "savior" of the world. He taught that the 'saviour' is within you. So, while James has every right to dismiss the fundamentalist misunderstanding of the term "savior' he has no right, in truth, to join them in fuelling a misconception which a) Jesus never taught; and b) which has already been exhaustively explained by Jesus and other adepts ever since. The inner-Christ is our saviour. Salvation (self-elevation) can only be found within, by degrees, as our souls evolve on the path of self-transcendence.

Are we to intellectually dismiss any teaching that uses concepts like 'spirit/soul/God'? evolution? Saviorship? James hopes so. "It's all passe you know. Just an "old model, time for a trade in"

Obviously it's not passe, they're just different terms describing the same ideas that James has rebranded.

3) Hierarchy -- A prior post quoted James'/WM as saying: "

... there are slightly fewer than 100,000 initiates who are presently incarnated on earth who are following the Wisdom Path loosely established by the Hierarchy, that is to say they are following the principles set forth by the masters...
He acknowledges a positive Cosmic "Hierarchy" here but in the quote above it (written in red) the 'WM' speak of the entity having transformed itself from the controlling aspects of the "Hierarchy". No differentiation is made in the 'WM' terminology between the true Cosmic Hierarchy and the controlling "false hierarchy". They are both referred to as "Hierarchy". This is unusual for the 'WM's usually technical lexicon. I believe the reason for that is deliberate but subtle.

James' 'WM' assert that everyone is "equal". (So did the Communist Manifesto if i recall.) The 'WM' refer to "Hierarchy" in the same regard, they're "equal" too. And let's not forget to include the "false hierarchy of the NWO" in the term: "Hierarchy" because they're equal too right?" They're "equal" to each other, "equal" to the true cosmic "Hierarchy" and of course "equal" to you and me. If the 'WM' are taken at 'their' word, everyone in the entire multiverse is "equal".

Of course none of that is true. After all, individual attainment is fundamental to the concept of true Hierarchy - but what wonderful fodder can be made from the concept of human "equality" based on the lie of cosmic equality. Yes, every individual and his/her works (karmic energy) is made from the same essential "stuff" and each soul has the same origin, ie... the individual I AM Presence. But each has expressed freewill differently. Consequently, quality varies enormously on earth and in the multiiverse. There is a vast difference between a demon entity in the lower astral plane who has misqualified all it's energy and a cosmic Creator in Cosmic Hierarchy who has qualified IT'S energy as intended to serve Cosmic purpose.

Why emphasise "equality" so much? Why pretend Hierarchy are "equal"?

In a nutshell the 'WM' scammers are retaining for themselves and their 'human representatives' in a NWO, the priveledge of Hierarchical position on earth - therefore they acknowledge 'Hierarchy' in their cosmology - yet they will insist on "equality" for everyone else on earth. Anyone not "for them" who raises their "unequal" heads above the mob will be accused of trying to create a "false hierarchy" when in actual fact it is they (the NWO's 'WM) who are (even now) a part of a false hierarchy. They will try to accuse you of the same thing they are doing themselves. Everyone in communist Russia and China were "equal" too, just some were more "equal" than others, if you get my drift. If you didn't swallow their whole philosophical foundation and every single policy which sprung from it YOU were labelled a "reactionary" and removed from the crowd. YOU were "weak minded", "lazy hearted", "attacking the system", "not up to the challenge" of utopia building .... yes YOU were "undiscerning".

There is no equality so the only means to pretend there is is to enforce equality.

These phony utopias always promise "equality" at a high standard of living for all but they always shatter their promises (as intended) by maintaining their own "false hierarchy" who cream the wealth as they've always done. But first they must give us a philosophy we can "believe in", something to rally around, something to feel superior about. Something "brand new."

"The transformational experience is the realization that the entity model of expression is capable of direct access to Source Intelligence information, and that the information of Prime Creator is discovered within the entity level of the Sovereign Integral. In other words, the human instrument, complete with its biological, emotional, and mental capabilities, is not the repository of the entity's Source Codes........"
True. Nothing new here except another new name, "source codes". The human instrument is not the source of the I AM Presence wherein the soul has access to all information. Likewise the I AM Presence is not the source of IT'S creator.


"....... Source Reality and sovereign reality become inseparable as wind and air.
The I AM Presence is one with IT'S Source. Yet the soul, haven fallen in vibration and consciousness, is not resonant and conscious of Oneness with the I AM until it changes it's negative orientation. When the soul awakens to the I AM and loves the inner Presence more that it's habitual appetites (of egoism) then the 2 will become inseperable.


"This confluence is realized only through the transformational experience, which is unlike anything known within the time-space universes.' All who've spoken of the experience of "confluence" / Oneness" have exulted in it's transformational and unique character. Some of these people have actually had the experience and others have not.

"There have been those upon terra-earth who have experienced a shallow breath of wind from this powerful tempest. Some have called it ascension, others have attributed names like illumination, vision, enlightenment, nirvana, and cosmic consciousness. While these experiences are profound in human standards, they are only the initial stirrings of the Sovereign Integral........What most species define as the ultimate bliss is merely the impression of the Sovereign Integral whispering to its outposts of form....."
As the adepts have always taught. The soul is evolving on the spiritual path. The breath of spirit may be shallow at first as the soul awakens to the inner Presence. But the experience leads to greater degrees of initiation and realisation of Source. Countless souls have successfully been through that. By presuming to know the depth of others' experience James gives the impression of one who knows. Of course there's a difference between a shallow breath and the Giver of life itself. The adepts did not mistake the sun's rays for the sun itself. Jesus who ascended, Guatama who attained nirvana and Yogananda who attained cosmic-consciousness (to name 3 teachers) were all ONE with "true identity". What James refers to as the Sovereign Integral and what those 3 adepts referred to as Christ, Buddha and the Divine Beloved are one and the same "true identity". By denying that, who does James think he is fooling?

Why belittle their terms? Why pretend they experienced inferior states of consciousness to the real thing? James' assertions are clever for their purpose. First he says, "a shallow (spiritual) breath is not full realisation of the real thing." Of couse not, so that's agreeable... then it's all downhill from there. Next, "the shallow breath was really just nirvana, cosmic-consciousness, ascension" which are really "just profound by human standards but not the real thing"... "they're just the initial stirrings of the "SI". No they are not. James is trying to bellitle the adepts teachings with his superior dismissals so he can strip people of the value they may have found elsewhere. Or he's injecting triggers aimed at people who are yet to find the adepts teachings. He wants our undivided attention and will discredit anything to capture it.


"The transformational experience is far beyond the calibration of the human drama much like the stars in the sky are beyond the touch of terra-earth." I've heard that description many times.

What was this?? This was not anything I had been exposed to before:

transformed beyond the the evolution/saviorship model of existence?

removed itself from the controlling aspects of the Hierarchy?

the complete activation of its embedded Source Codes?

No evolution or savior needed? No Hierarchy either? And the human instrument is not the repository of what Source Codes?
We have not been exposed to such distortion, theft and discredting of so many well established truth concepts in a while, thats for sure.

This was new. This was very new. In 2000 I was 48 years old. I had read and studied hard; attended, for years, an esoteric school that imposed harsh disciplines; opened and experienced the seven seals, wandered alone in the wilderness, taken all of the plants and drugs to experience alternate doors of perception. I had never come across these concepts before.

The daring! The nerve of making the claim that the highest spiritual experiences of humanity were merely a shallow breath of wind! That one could move beyond the control of the spiritual Hierarchy! Heresy was what it was, and it charmed this born heretic to his toes. This was not your grandmother's enlightenment.
Maybe you only found false teachers who misrepresented the truth of the ages. Your grandmother probably knows better than James.

The nerve alright. I'd have said "The gaul".

You won't move beyond the spiritual Hierarchy, you will take your place in it. You will hopefully move beyond the false hierarchy though. ie, the NWO, their astral counterparts and all imposters of the true Hierarchy on earth.


Reading further, the heresy became, well, even more heretical, culminating in this outrageous equation:

Entity + Source Intelligence = Prime Creator equality. This is not exactly heresy. You will reach the attainment of your Creator. Your Creator will have moved on to greater attainment. We are part of the 'Tree of Life'. All are growing. The same river runs through all. But equality is an illusion in a universe of freewill and growth.

*******

[milk and honey]

I finished and edited the above post after it submitted itself when only half finished.

[ENdJOY]

It may be, that some are confusing "equality" with "sameness"... and while the Entity (fragmented, individulated consciousness of FS) is identical ... by design, it is just as Unique as FS.

The fragmentation of FS, allowed it to have unique experiences, through out the process we call evolution. One lifetime contributes to the wholeness of the individual's uniqueness, which in turn contributes to the expansion and evolution of First Source Intelligence.

Without you I am unable to evolve. Without me, you are unable to exist. This is our eternal bond. It was and is my desire to evolve that gave you existence. We, collectively, are the conjoint vessel of creation and exploration. We are the boldness of the uncharted journey and the imaginative energy of the out-picturing of new realities. We are the image of an ascending, infinite, expanding spiral that is created segment by segment by itself. We are inseparable – each the window of the other.
http://www.wingmakers.com/mycentralpurpose.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am not familiar with this quote you ascribe to James:
James hopes so. "It's all passe you know. Just an "old model, time for a trade in" please tell us where it can be found

While it is true, that the WMMs, suggest that we adopt a "new model of existence"... that model is inclusive of others, with the exception of not being tied or limited by them.

This is the experiment of transformation verses evolution. Evolution is the arduous and ongoing process of shifting positions within the hierarchy -- always assessing your present position in relation to a new one that beckons you. Transformation is simply the recognition that there are accelerated pathways that bypass the hierarchy leading to sovereign mastership rather than interdependent saviorship, and that these new pathways can be accessed through direct experience of the equality tone-vibration that is present within all entities. (same link as above)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The WMMs are not exclusive, nor are they forced upon anyone:

Every human is able, in varying degrees, to peer beneath the surface reality of life and perceive and express their personal interpretations of the Universe of Wholeness. They require only the time and intention to develop their own interpretations. And this is precisely what all the great spiritual leaders have taught. Life's deeper meaning is not an absolute to be experienced by the chosen few, but an evolving, dynamic intelligence that wears as many faces as there are life forms. No life form or species has the exclusive portal into the Universe of Wholeness in which First Source expresses ITSELF in all ITS majesty. The portal is shared with all because First Source is within all things.
(same link as above)

Acquiring a Sovereign Integral's consciousness/perspective, is the results of free will... it does not just "happen" as we evolve...it is intitiated when we are evolved...by those who desire to progress.

Nevertheless, the human instrument is critical in facilitating the transformational experience and causing it to trigger -- like a metamorphosis -- the integration of the formful identities into the Sovereign Integral. This is the next stage of perception and expression for the entity model, and it is activated when the entity designs its reality from life principles that are symbolic of Source Reality, as opposed to the reality of an external source that is bound to the evolution/saviorship model of existence.
http://www.wingmakers.com/philosophy1.html


the "formful identities" of the SI are revealed here: Body (Human Instrument), Soul (spirit Entity consciousness), Wholeness Navigator (god fragment) Remnant Imprint (program), Phantom Core (scribe) Sovereign Integral (original design template)

http://www.wingmakers.com/anatomyofindividuatedconsciousness.html

this is what has been altered by immersing oneself in the Human Instrument

When the entity initially enters a human instrument at birth, it is immediately fragmented into a physical, emotional, and mental spectrum of perception and expression. From that day forward the entity is carefully conditioned to adapt into, and navigate within, the three-dimensional, five-sensory context of terra-earth. In effect, the entity purposely fragments its consciousness in order to experience separation from wholeness.

In this state of separation, the entity has handicapped itself for the purpose of new experience and a deeper understanding of the Primal Blueprint or grand vision of First Source. Through this deeper understanding, the entity can, through the human instrument, transform the three-dimensional context into a self-aware, integrated component of the Universe of Wholeness. This magnificent and purposeful endeavor produces the urge within the human instrument to seek out its wholeness and re-experience its divine connection to First Source.


The Entities desire to progress is based upon Free Will

Free will is not obscured simply because an entity is presented with alternative realities or relative truths that delay its realization of Source equality. It is the choice of the entity to invest itself in external accounts of reality instead of delving within its own resources and creating a reality that is sovereign. The value of free will is always expanding as you move towards sovereignty, and in like manner, is always diminishing as you move towards external dependence. The choice between sovereignty or external dependence is the basis of free will, and there is no structure or external source that can eliminate this basic choice. It is an inward choice that, regardless of outward circumstance, is incapable of being denied by anything external.

"The time has come to integrate the dominant model of the hierarchy (evolution/saviorship) with the dominant model of Source Intelligence (transformation/mastership). This integration can only be achieved at the level of the entity. It cannot occur within the context of a human instrument or an aspect of the hierarchy. Only the entity -- the wholeness of inter-dimensional sovereignty imbued with Source Intelligence -- can facilitate and fully experience the integration of these two models of existence.

This form of integration occurs when the entity fully explores the two models and develops a synthesis model that positions saviorship as an internal role of the entity to "save" itself, and not rely upon externals to perform this liberating task. This act of self-sufficiency begins to integrate the saviorship idea with the mastership realization. The next step is to integrate the time-based incremental progress of the evolutionary model with the realization-based acceptance of the transformation model. This is done when the entity is thoroughly convinced that experience and utilization of its wholeness can only occur when it is completely detached from the various structures of the hierarchy" http://www.wingmakers.com/philosophy2.html

[asteram]

milk and honey-

Thank you for the effort that you put into your well written reply. I have read it and I understand your points, but I don't find that it is relevant to my level of understanding. I'm not trying to convert or assuage anyone's skepticism. Skepticism is very healthy and I practice it regularly. The purpose of my previous post was to point out what I found intriguing when I first really read a few dozen pages of the WM material 8 1/2 years ago.


It does not appear that you have studied the WingMakers material in any depth, but that you are selecting and critiquing various small parts of a rather large body of information that has been added to regularly over a period of ten years. For example, there is no differentiation between the "true cosmic hierarchy" and your postulated false hierarchy. The hierarchy referred to is the hierarchy we know, and the slightly fewer than 100,000 initiates mentioned as following the path laid down by the masters are following exactly that traditional path, as yours truly has done, and as I would assume you are doing.

Just because I am looking beyond the hierarchy does not mean that my teachers within the hierarchy were or are charlatans. Far from it. Nor do I reject or devalue the love and effort they put into teaching me.

The Source Codes are not the Chakras. Chakra is another term for what I refer to as the seven seals. I know them from personal experience, one through seven. What the Source Codes are is what I am working on "figuring out", so to speak. It is clear to me that they are not DNA, and I have found no reference to them other than through the WingMakers materials.

Consider what the WingMakers are saying through their representative: The entire spiritual path and organization that we are referring to as the hierarchy, with all of its dimensional permutations throughout the time/space universes, is a construct. Is there anything possibly beyond that construct, so far beyond it, for instance, that even energy doesn't exist? So far outside it that all of the construct could be bypassed?

Evolution/saviorship is one path, the path of the hierarchy, and one that is known to those of us who have studied and walked that path.

The WingMakers are saying that transformation/mastership is a very different route, and it is that one that I am pursuing. If it is a sham, I will figure that out eventually, don't you think? I am no longer easily fooled regarding such matters.

[milk and honey]

milk and honey-

Thank you for the effort that you put into your well written reply. I have read it and I understand your points, but I don't find that it is relevant to my level of understanding. I'm not trying to convert or assuage anyone's skepticism. Skepticism is very healthy and I practice it regularly. The purpose of my previous post was to point out what I found intriguing when I first really read a few dozen pages of the WM material 8 1/2 years ago.Understood asteram. I appreciate you were speaking of your own first impressions. James' quotes were there so i discussed his own words.


It does not appear that you have studied the WingMakers material in any depth, but that you are selecting and critiquing various small parts of a rather large body of information that has been added to regularly over a period of ten years. For example, there is no differentiation between the "true cosmic hierarchy" and your postulated false hierarchy. The hierarchy referred to is the hierarchy we know, and the slightly fewer than 100,000 initiates mentioned as following the path laid down by the masters are following exactly that traditional path, as yours truly has done, and as I would assume you are doing.
The "false hierarchy" is not merely my own potulate. It exists. The entities who comprise the "false hierarchy" are differentiated from the true christic Hierarchy by their negative orientation and vibration of anti-christ. Anywhere you care to look you will discover evidence for their abuse of power on earth through a pyramidal structure of elite families and organisations. I am speaking of the 'NWO' and all it's secret and open vassals in church and state, media, medicine, business, science, education, etc. That beast includes non-physical entities who are also hierarchically organised, worshipped by the top of the 'NWO' hierarchy and fed by the mass-consciousness.

By virtue of it's 'service to self' orientation the 'false hierarchy' has severed itself from the flow of the christ energy (within) and consequently it seeks to devour the lifeforce of all who are still receptive to source. The false hierarchy appeals to the vanity and passion of our egos in order to induce us to squander our sacred energies which re-inforces the corpse of their death paradigm. So long as we fail to identify them and their MO we will continue to reinforce it.

Just because I am looking beyond the hierarchy does not mean that my teachers within the hierarchy were or are charlatans. Far from it. Nor do I reject or devalue the love and effort they put into teaching me. I appreciate that. It's a matter of identifying the false from the true Hierarchy. You might consider the possibility that James' 'WM' are a part of the false hierarchy for the simple reason that no true spiritual teacher would misrepresent others or assert themselves utterly unique in all the personal 'powers' or assert themselves beyond true Hierarchy or teach that you yourself could do so, or sell a crowd or agenda like the 'NWO'.

The false hierarchy rarely appear as they are. They have established a familiar MO which always seems to work for them. They have always masked their activities behind a veneer of singular righteousness and service to others. Given that human beings have been largely stripped of "true identity" we tend to rely on external forces for guidance and sustenance so we have always fallen for their personalities and philosophies. They invariably veil their agenda behind props of piety and lofty principles. Should they fail to destroy a principle of truth which the people hold as axiomatic they will feign sympathy for it and add it to their own repertoir. Anything to appeal to their prey. Everything is fair game and useable as a hook to catch their prey. They have their finger on the popular pulse while spoonfeeding it with lies, feeding the soul unstoppable truths and telling us what we want to hear. Such a versatile and resposive beast will appear as it must to serve itself.

The Source Codes are not the Chakras. Not exclusively, no, but the chakras have been anchored in the 'human instrument' by the I AM and they are encoded with the I AM consciousness. In most people, except to generate negative energy, the chakras are inactive.
Chakra is another term for what I refer to as the seven seals. I know them from personal experience, one through seven. What the Source Codes are is what I am working on "figuring out", so to speak. It is clear to me that they are not DNA, and I have found no reference to them other than through the WingMakers materials. You have a sincere vibe asteram. You haven't taken offence and i appreciate it. It makes our 'figuring' a pleasure. Mostly James makes clear what he means. To me that includes his subtext which we may not agree on. Anyway, i share your understanding that "source codes" are not DNA but i believe i know what James is getting at. That's why i referred to the chakras.

Firstly, i'm sure there is nothing new in this concept of 'Source Codes' because there is nothing new in the "Divine Anatomy" of the individual. It has been well explored and well mapped. To me it's just a matter of translating his terminology for what is already understood in the experience of those who know and can be found in concepts already given. So...

"Source Codes" clearly originate in Source. What doesn't? But if the soul in the human instrument is to be activated by 'codes' what is the 'anatomy' of activation and reception? We know the 'codes' must originate in Source and are activated by same. How do the 'codes' awaken to the coscious awareness of the soul in the human instrument? The reason i referred to the chakras is because we obviously need to expand the definition of the 'human instrument' beyond a mere 'biological instrument'. And we have to take account of our own inner experience and the associated concepts already established to provide an explanation. That is what i've done, so i refer to the 'spiritual circuitry' in higher octaves of the 'human instrument' to explain how Source can activate it's 'codes' within the 'human instrument' which includes the "7 chakras" and the 3 subtle bodies beyond the biological form.

All information is code. The I AM Presence communicates coded information to the soul in matter through 'spiritual circuitry' of the 'human instrument'. And each subtle body within the circuit is "buttoned" together by the 7 major chakras to form an integrated circuit for the transfer of encoded information.

To put it only slightly differently...... In the Presence of the I AM, the white light of spirit - encoded with information - is transmitted through a cascading projection of light descending through the circuit of the 'human instrument'. When the encoded light first contacts the etheric body it refracts through the 7 chakras which are anchored at the etheric level of the 'human instrument'. Each of the 3 subtle bodies are integrated by the 7 chakras so that all bodies in the circuit contact each other at those centers and are receptive thereby to the spiritual impulse. Ideally, this is the way the I AM Presence communicates with the soul. The circuitry (source codes?) is created by the I AM.

By this point, the spiritual reception is very poor in most people because the chakras and subtle bodies have become distorted over aeons of incarnations. Because the individual has expressed so much physical, mental and emotional violence there are serious blockages of negative energy in and surrounding the chakras and subtle bodies which have disfigured the original symmetry and perfection of the whole instrument. Think of Krishna's flute. Krishna is "true identity", the flute is the 'human instrument' and the holes in the flute are the chakras through which the divine breath (encoded with Divine Song) is meant to flow. Originally Krishna fashioned them perfectly. Imagine that the holes in the flute become so clogged they occlude the flow of breath through the instrument almost entirely. The Divine One can no longer express Him / Herself through the instrument. Awful tones and horrid sounds replace the once glorious music.

In the majority of people the chakras are dark, dormant and in need of spiritual activation and cleansing. The physical brain and glandular system have consequently been so starved of spiritual communion that important glandular centres lay largely dormant for lack of spiritual stimulation. They too are in need of activation. Only the soul's source can restore the 'human instrument' / flute to it's original symmetry and perfection.

All of these self-inflicted wounds are the prison walls of the soul. All of this negative karmic energy blocking the subconscious regions of the 'human instrument' must be transmuted and changed so that we can freely breathe the breath of the holy spirit again within us. When the petals of each chakra are activated once again and are luminous with the perfume of spiritual light the karmic weight of the ages will melt away from the soul.

As you can see there is a lot to 'activate'. Are they 'source codes'? I know one thing; Spirit is the soul's source. Each element of the anatomy of self which i described is Spirit 'in-form'. The soul itself is Spirit in-form. The petals of the chakras are 'in-form-ation', the brain and glandular system are 'in-form-ation'. All in-form-ation is encoded light. There is no new thing under the sun presence of the I AM; except new brands.

Consider what the WingMakers are saying through their representative: The entire spiritual path and organization that we are referring to as the hierarchy, with all of its dimensional permutations throughout the time/space universes, is a construct. Is there anything possibly beyond that construct, so far beyond it, for instance, that even energy doesn't exist? So far outside it that all of the construct could be bypassed?
Firstly, which Hierarchy is he referring to? If it is the "false hierarchy" then yes it is a false construct based on the illusion of anti-christ and consequently it can be by-passed to the spiritual realm beyond it where most of true Hierarchy dwell.

Our work is to prepare, by loving service and meditation, to become the conscious instrument of the I AM in the world of form. And when we pass on, to rise above the karmic necessity of perpetual re-incarnation.... To stay in the higher etheric realms for further development or to ascend to permanent fusion to the I AM and whatever adventures of total liberty await. Beyond that? I have enough on my plate for now, but "true identity" is no illusion. If it can be termed a "construct" then it has been "constructed" by Great Being. All can grow into their Creator and to whatever is beyond, add infinitum.

Evolution/saviorship is one path, the path of the hierarchy, and one that is known to those of us who have studied and walked that path.
Those who have studied and walked that path to it's pinnacle teach that the 'savior' is one's "true identity" within. On the evolutionary path of the soul they arrived at that point of "combustion" and rapid acceleration to full identification with the I AM. They transformed themselves by the transforming power of Spiritual Identity. They attained mastership, no less.

The WingMakers are saying that transformation/mastership is a very different route, and it is that one that I am pursuing. If it is a sham, I will figure that out eventually, don't you think? I am no longer easily fooled regarding such matters. I hope so.

James is trading on semantic differences here to assert that somehow one can leapfrog the true spiritual Hierarchy into a state of Being beyond them? It betrays his fundamental ignorance, or worse.

[Czymra]

Half of the time you simply lose me with what seems to be finickiness. There is too much terminology in most of what is thrown about here, and something just doesn't feel right about it.
Nevertheless, this post was VERY enlightening. Asteram might be just the right catalyst this discussion needs.

I am not able to present my own 'system of belief' in any depth or profoundness as either of you are, and I think that is good. I have a problem with dogmas, fixed values and the idea of 'good and bad'.

So let me ask you a few questions in the hope you can give me some answers to make my own path:

As mentioned, I struggle with 'good or bad' and what you describe falls quite clearly into those categories. There is a true and a false hierarchy. There is a Christ and an Anti-Christ, there is negative energy and positive energy.
I can see how these polarities are of importance on our 'plane' but always considered that once you leave the lower planes everything just 'is'. I'm told that the spiritual masters sit there doing nothing because 'everything will be fine, it all goes it's due course. The negative and the positive play their roles to lead everybody to their realisation, eventually they are of no importance since we are all immortal anyway.'

This leads directly into what I think is called the Buddahood, the Satori or similar and as I also mentioned before this seems to tie in with Zen or Buddhism in general. It is thus exemplified that one does not ascend, one just works toward the gateless gate (James' invisible prison) and being able to pass through it. Maybe I'm just hung up with the beauty of that idea, but why is that 'wrong'?

Lastly, why is it Christ here and Krishna there and I AM in the end? Patchwork-spiritualism is clearly the nature of true discernment but you seem to be quite decisive in your terminology. Does it matter? Do words matter? Is Rock'n Roll Music really there to further satan and how could it be that those spells work? This doesn't seem to fit with the well established spiritual philosophies propagated so far, at all for the simple reason that they say 'all is one', how can you then reject another? You do not seem to be interested at all in the concept of 'the world is your mirror'.

Nevertheless, I have come to be convinced that evil cloaks in the most positive dresses and I am thus extremely weary. This section expresses my thoughts on this better than I could do it myself.
The false hierarchy rarely appear as they are. They have established a familiar MO which always seems to work for them. They have always masked their activities behind a veneer of singular righteousness and service to others. Given that human beings have been largely stripped of "true identity" we tend to rely on external forces for guidance and sustenance so we have always fallen for their personalities and philosophies. They invariably veil their agenda behind props of piety and lofty principles. Should they fail to destroy a principle of truth which the people hold as axiomatic they will feign sympathy for it and add it to their own repertoir. Anything to appeal to their prey. Everything is fair game and useable as a hook to catch their prey. They have their finger on the popular pulse while spoonfeeding it with lies, feeding the soul unstoppable truths and telling us what we want to hear. Such a versatile and resposive beast will appear as it must to serve itself.

You say to identify the 'false hierarchy' and I completely with you on that regard. However, what then?

Thanks,
Czymra

[ENdJOY]

a prerequisite to the Sovereign Integrals' perspective, is to shift ones self from the savior/student model of existence, by releasing one's dependency upon any hierarchy... this means moving into the Mastership model of existence where the indiviual is no longer "stuck" in a dualistic world... there is no good or bad, dark or light, everything is manifested from the same matter by the same energy... they are two sides of ONE coin.

good and bad are values your perspective/experience/programing gives via judgment to any given issue... there is good and bad in everything...it just depends upon what you are looking for :wink2:

The "trick" is to appreciate that everything serves a purpose, and finding that purpose in you life. There is an old saying that "what we resists, persists" and resisting the awareness that there is no difference between what should be and what IS... is what makes life a learning process. The ultimate goal of the Master is a Wholeness perspective.

Wholeness Perspective

The human instrument, because it is fragmented and limited to five-senses, truly desires the Wholeness Perspective; a way to absorb life experience, process it, and move on to the next thing with grace and ease. This is what is desired, no matter what name is used to describe it. Wholeness is accepting all realities and moving through them with a feeling of integration, unity, equality, and non-judgment. It means there are no dualities that are real. It means that all experience is equal and grounded in the transcendent reality of the One That Is All. And most importantly, it means that the One That Is All is you, me, him, her, it, that, and those. Nothing is excluded or rejected. http://www.wingmakers.com/glossary.html

[asteram]

Thanks, milk and honey, for your definition of false hierarchy. It appears to me that a hierarchy is a hierarchy, so perhaps it would be more accurate to say dark vs light hierarchy or service to self vs service to others hierarchy. Polarities again. Obviously polarities have their place and function or they wouldn't exist. Sitting around on clouds playing the harp would get old pretty fast for me.

Polarity is the same as duality and if all is one, and all is from the same source, then both polarities are necessary and were created of some necessity. I don't get far with God created good and Satan created bad.

I understand that you are offended by the, as you put it, "gall" of the equation

Entity + Source Intelligence = Prime Creator equality

I am not offended at all. I think it's charming. :)

The WingMakers site does not say that the hierarchy is bad or good. It has a place and function and will continue to do so. The Wingmakers are saying that it is time for a new factor to enter the picture. I'm doing my best to keep this in my own words, but the phrase that is used is something like "First Source is now bursting forth at the foundations", meaning right here on the most dense of all planes.

It will be difficult to discuss this with you if you insist in morphing it into your own mold without having studied the material. I think you should realize that associating anything new you hear with something you already know is a trap. I do see how threatening these Sovereign Integral concepts are to past systems and dogma, but that's how it is. Your arguments so far have a strong resemblance to the sort of fundamentalist thought that I am too familiar with, e.g. anything that disagrees with my dogma is of the devil and evil.

I'm reminded of a conversation I had a couple of months ago with a very intelligent but poorly informed Christian. I brought up the subject of Krishna and Arjuna, which raised his hackles, but all I wished to talk about was the esoteric meaning behind the battle portrayed in the Bhagavad Gita. Well, that set him off even more, as he well knew that anything not of Christian origin was evil, and he associated the Bhagavad Gita with people in orange bedsheets chanting Hare Krishna; to him obviously evil and satanic. His arguments were not informed, nor did he wish to be informed. As for me, I could not care less whether Krishna or Jesus existed as real people or not; that's not important to me, it's the concepts and ideas behind the myths and stories that interest me.

Your attempts to fit the concept of Source Codes into the seven chakras/three subtle bodies mold also shows that you have not studied the WingMakers material, and remember so far we haven't even gotten far into the first few pages of it from ten years ago. You know little more about it than my friend Nigel knows about Krishna and Arjuna; you have simply decided a priori that you don't like it and are attempting to warn me and others away from something you know little about.

So, if you would like to continue the discussion with a little more background, here is a link to a few pages of what I read in the summer of 2000. Its title is "The Shifting Models of Existence" and it compares and contrasts the perspective of the Sovereign Integral with that of the Hierarchy:

http://wingmakers.com/philosophy2.html


Informed opinions carry more weight from my point of view. Please do your best to read it with an open mind, at least the first time through, and not simply as a source of ammunition.

[asteram]

Quantum

Quantum breathing. Quantum pause. These phrases sound rather advanced and esoteric to us moderns only because of the association of the word "quantum" over the past century with the term "quantum physics". The terms are not really esoteric.

Quantum (plural quanta) comes from the Latin base quantus meaning "how much". The Random House Unabridged second edition gives the first meaning of quantum as "quantity or amount" and definition 2 is "a particular amount". That is really all a quantum is, a fixed, specific, or particular amount. A pound, an ounce, or a kilogram are each a quantum, as is a minute or an hour. The term need not be even that exact: one apple is a quantum; a dozen eggs is a quantum, a lifetime is a quantum.

The association with mysterious and advanced physics came about in the early 1900s when scientists studying atomic structure discovered that energy came in packets of an exact size, a particular amount. In Bohr's atomic model, called the planetary model, electrons orbit the nucleus of an atom like planets orbit the sun, and they orbit at specific distances from the nucleus. The scientists discovered that when an electron lost energy and dropped to a lower orbit closer to the nucleus it emitted a photon, and that the photon was an exact quantity of energy, no more, no less. One does not encounter half of a photon. They called this specific amount of energy a quantum or quantum packet of energy.

I'm bringing this up because I think that the association with quantum physics might be too complex an association to make with the breathing and perception exercises that James has suggested in the Camelot interview. It appears to me that in the quantum breathing exercise there are four quanta or specific stages involved, each of them a quantum of three, four, or five "beats". For example: Breathe in to a count of four, hold in to a count of four, breathe out to a count of four, hold out to a count of four, repeated three times and then followed by a quantum of unspecified length, a pause, to observe the thoughts that drift up into consciousness. All together the three sets of breathing plus the pause make another quantum of four. Very simple: a certain amount of breaths, a certain amount of repetitions, a certain amount of pauses. Quantum breathing.

James also suggests breaking ones day up into quanta of experience, for example the time between waking up and sitting down for breakfast, in which one washes up and brushes their teeth, combs their hair, gets dressed etc. Of course each of these can be further broken up into quanta. He suggests the duration of a phone call as a quantum amount. Reading and answering an email would be another example. Note that none of these consist of any fixed duration, or necessarily any exact repetition, but they can be perceived as and broken up into quanta.

So far I have little idea what the purpose is behind "quantizing" one's day in this way, but it occurs to me that it does increase awareness of the intervals and actions, and those intervals are not regulated by the measurements of "clock time", nor even the movements of the sun, stars, daylight or night time. These quanta are solely subjective; for instance "brushing ones teeth" is a quantum but in no ordinary way is it a measure of time, rather it is a quantum of experience. As the goal seems to be to get the attention of the core entity, perhaps this is closer to the way the entity measures experience.

[ENdJOY]

Thank you for sharing your understanding of quantum here...I was not familiar with that particular perspective and it enhances my ability to grasp more fully what a gift the "Quantum Pause" is

I also appreciate your obvious familiarity/ experience with the WMMs...having it lumped into the New Age bag is just so disappointing. I was not aware of how much fear is attached to stepping outside of the "Christian" box until I listened to that google movie (Gods of the New Age) suggested in another post...and can see now, where these idea are coming from...even though I do not understand how the Wingmakers got drug into that bonfire, since they have nothing in common with any of the other teachings mentioned.

I never did understand why christians are so afraid of other teachings...even if the WMMs were not associated with Jesus...they are all going to be raptured away... so what do they care what others believe. They seem to have forgotten that what Jesus taught was "not original" either, yet it was New (to that) Age - having been buried in religion's dogma...I have found nothing in the WMMs that conflict with what he taught in the brief 3 years he was allowed to teach...in fact, I am sure that what James is revealing is what he would have taught us if he had more time...and if his followers minds were more open.

[Czymra]

It will be difficult to discuss this with you if you insist in morphing it into your own mold without having studied the material. I think you should realize that associating anything new you hear with something you already know is a trap. I do see how threatening these Sovereign Integral concepts are to past systems and dogma, but that's how it is. Your arguments so far have a strong resemblance to the sort of fundamentalist thought that I am too familiar with, e.g. anything that disagrees with my dogma is of the devil and evil.


Could I request some explanation on that. As I just mentioned in my last post, I do not like any dogmas (is that the English plural of it?). However I do understand that one cannot just equate the new system with the old i.e. force those principles through the grid of an old system.
However, with the right open mind mind and attitude, that means that the previously learned isn't a system, but rather a pool of knowledge, the new information can easily be merged and embedded alongside the old, as they organically reference each other (or not) and by that very nature help redefine the old AND the new.
I think this is so with most 'spiritual' arts, they are dynamically self-arranging if one allows them to be fluid.
Just imagine how when listening to music, you only hear a single instant (note) in the now, but your understanding of the melody is formed by the memory of the music just passed and the anticipation of the sounds to come. It is thus self-arranging and in fact has a reciprocal effect on the music of the past as each new note isn't just added in the grid of the old, but rather redefines all the past melodies heard.

[asteram]

ENdJOY--

I think the WM material is here now because humanity on planet Earth is ready for it, and it's "time" to access the Grand Portal. The existence of the internet is a necessary prerequisite, because of its ability to unify and spread information to a large segment of the population and from there the collective consciousness. One can access the internet from Mount Everest, the Amazon jungle, or the hinterlands of Mongolia. The days of being able to lie to and keep a large segment of the population in ignorance are coming to an end; these days one needs to put effort into remaining ignorant.

As to the quantum definition, I have learned that it's necessary from experience with people babbling on about quantum physics in some fashion without even knowing what a quantum is. First things first: we define what we mean by the term.

RE the rapture, James mentioned in the interview that Nibiru is not coming back, nor is Anu going to make his second coming. Does this mean the rapture is called off too? If so, dang; we are just going to have to deal with the fundie fanatics I guess.

[asteram]

Czymra-

Yes, dogmas is plural. Dogmata is also an accepted plural.

Clarifying my point, what I was attempting to say was that the approach reminds me of those who say "anything that disagrees with my dogma is of the devil and evil." I don't have much use for dogma either, my definition of dogma being "accepted truths that may not be questioned". In the case of religious law, one who openly questions dogma is a heretic. I question everything, and though I accept certain things as proven to my satisfaction, they are still open to question.

For instance, the statement "I am alive" appears obvious, but am I really alive and experiencing my life right now, or am I already dead and experiencing a life review?

From your previous post:

"However, with the right open mind mind and attitude, that means that the previously learned isn't a system, but rather a pool of knowledge, the new information can easily be merged and embedded alongside the old, as they organically reference each other (or not) and by that very nature help redefine the old AND the new."

I agree with you completely on this. Life, knowledge, wisdom, and understanding are cumulative, or at least should be. Even things that I have learned in the past that have turned out to be wrong in a general sense often have parts that are right in a particular sense. I do not reject the things of value that I learned when I was coerced into becoming a born-again Christian as a young boy. I reject the dogma of sin and salvation, but even that part I recognize for its underlying symbolism and truth.

The goal is self-realization at the highest level of which I am capable, and I will gladly use whatever tools present themselves as long as they do not conflict with my inner compass and conscience. What I mean by that is that I will not use a "tool" that knowingly causes or allows harm to come to another in order to benefit myself.

Everything else is open, and I do mean everything.

[asteram]

~

[EarthBowl]

Quantum



So far I have little idea what the purpose is behind in this way, but it occurs to me that it does increase awareness of the intervals and actions, and those intervals are not regulated by the measurements of "clock time", nor even the movements of the sun, stars, daylight or night time. These quanta are solely subjective; for instance "brushing ones teeth" is a quantum but in no ordinary way is it a measure of time, rather it is a quantum of experience. As the goal seems to be to get the attention of the core entity, perhaps this is closer to the way the entity measures experience.
:original:
Great thoughts. Yes.. As we do this '"quantizing" of one's day' ... we are * ...focusing in the now, * ...are reminded and aware of the SI in all that we do, * ....are aware of an alternative way to experience 'time' ( maybe we are even released, in a sense, of times hold on us). Doing this causes us to focus our attention and intention to align - honor- respect - desire - share and know the SI.
Thanks for this discussion

[milk and honey]

Half of the time you simply lose me with what seems to be finickiness. There is too much terminology in most of what is thrown about here, and something just doesn't feel right about it.
Nevertheless, this post was VERY enlightening. Asteram might be just the right catalyst this discussion needs. Guess everyone has their own view of 'finicky'. The reason i meet James' terminology with terminology is to show that his "new" concepts have been explored and mapped forever. There seems no way around explaining what he's done without illustrating with various examples.

I am not able to present my own 'system of belief' in any depth or profoundness as either of you are, and I think that is good. I have a problem with dogmas, fixed values and the idea of 'good and bad'. I try to point out the difference between reflections of 'reality' and 'unreality'. The way to prove 'unreality' is to see it for what it is. The vibrations of 'reality' and 'unreality' are discernable and therefore identifiable. For the purpose of discussion it is necessary to conceptually identify both and then to compare and contrast the differences as i see them.

Same with the concept of values'. The vibration of ideas that originate in "true identity" is discernably different to those that originate in the outer mind. I value one over the other in myself and outside myself. The difficulty presented by our need to conceptualise is that we must use 'names' to explain our perception to each other. Thus 'good' and 'bad' are relative to individual orientation and POV. I'd rather be free than be a slave. Someone else would rather enslave me... We may not agree on the idea of 'good' and 'bad' in that case due to our relaive POV. But i can act to ensure i am not enslaved by discerning motive, intent and MO. Like everyone else here i commit my perception to 'paper' and leave it to others to determine value. Is it merely a system of my own dogmatic beliefs? Or am i seeing things as they are?

So let me ask you a few questions in the hope you can give me some answers to make my own path:

As mentioned, I struggle with 'good or bad' and what you describe falls quite clearly into those categories. There is a true and a false hierarchy. There is a Christ and an Anti-Christ, there is negative energy and positive energy.
I can see how these polarities are of importance on our 'plane' but always considered that once you leave the lower planes everything just 'is'. I'm told that the spiritual masters sit there doing nothing because 'everything will be fine, it all goes it's due course. The negative and the positive play their roles to lead everybody to their realisation, eventually they are of no importance since we are all immortal anyway.'
The immortal Self is "true identity". The soul was created by "true identity" to fulfill a creative purpose in matter. It attains immortality IF it fulfills it's creative purpose but, having freewill, this is not guaranteed. The soul can rebel. It can maintain that attitude until it's creative opportunity expires.

The false hierarchy have fostered the idea that all roads lead to Union with "true identity". They would have us believe that the pettiness of the mind of anti-christ is one polarity of the true nature of the ONE. And that therefore it can be chosen as a valid route to Oneness. It is a bald lie and one which is more likely to lead 'believers' to a state of demonhood than buddhahood. Sure everything IS what it IS. Will you choose the low road and sever yourself from "true identity"? Or the high road to conscious Union with "true identity"? That is the real choice. I know you're not suggesting this Czyrma but if all roads led to the same destination (in consciousness) there would be no necessity to exercise freewill and choice. And no need for true teachers to make the choices and the consequences plain to all.

"Master teachers have attained the fruit of discernment... that is, Self-realisation". Discernment leads to enlightened choices which awaken full Self-realisation. Non-discernment results in poor choices which can lead to self-annihilation.

No master sits around 'doing nothing' if "true identity" calls for action. There are cycles of going within followed by cycles of action in the material world. That is the balance of life. The master Jesus demonstrated that balance. He got off his meditation matt and hit the street. He could not choose a life of private bliss while humanity suffered ignorance. He could not remain silent in the face of the abuses of the false hierarchy so he challenged them directly. He 'called out' the false priests on their hypocrisy and exposed their distorted philosophy. He was a man of rare discernment and courage who knew what he was talking about. Guatama attained the enlightenment of "true identity" then likewise got off his matt and travelled far and wide with the message of salvation. He discoursed extensively for ~ 40 years drawing crowds everywhere he went. He taught the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold path of right action. Why did they (and many others) bother if all paths lead to Oneness? If change is to manifest in this world it will come through a changed heart and the actions which spring from it. It won't happen by thought alone or meditation alone or by ignoring the objective manifestations of anti-christ who act in concert to enslave humanity.

This leads directly into what I think is called the Buddahood, the Satori or similar and as I also mentioned before this seems to tie in with Zen or Buddhism in general.
There is much sectarianism and dissagreement in the buddhist world and the christian world. But here is the kernal of it. Both adepts taught that Buddha and Christ were 'within you' as "true identity". They both self-realised what James is renaming the 'Sovereign Integral'. Like Jesus and Guatama, James teaches that we can manifest "true identity" on this plane of action through the 'human instrument'. Jesus and Guatama demonstrated exactly what that means. Observe the lives of these 2 adepts and you will see the 'Sovereign Integral" / Christ / Buddha in action. Observe their confrontations with the True and false hierarchies, their words and deeds. Then you will see that "true identity" is a revolutionary force for change. If things are out of alignment with cosmic truth -- such as the mass-consciousness, philosophies, systems, institutions -- then "true identity" does not leave things the way IT finds them. IT is not a passive force. IT is a transforming power. IT acts to re-align the outer worlds to inner truth.

It is thus exemplified that one does not ascend, one just works toward (the gateless gate (James' invisible prison) and being able to pass through it. "Working toward the gate" leads to ascension. The soul must 'ascend' in vibration to be an instrument of "true identity" else there is no vibrational resonance in matter for conscious Union. It has been variously termed "self-transcendence", "the Divine embrace", the "transmutative epic", "the trial by fire", etc. When the work of Union in matter is complete, the (vibrationally) perfected soul ascends to permanent Union with "true identity" ... "never more to go out or in" ... the two become inseperably ONE. All this should suggest too that the path of 'service to self' is not a path to Union but a vibrational dead end to no-where. It can only re-inforce the low vibration and disorientation of the individual. Until it is forsaken it postpones the day of passing through the gate. The problem with it is that the more it is engaged the more difficult it is to extract oneself from it. The 'gravity' of selfish acts increase the karmic weight of the soul which lead over and again to the 'grave'. All of the harm done must be faced up to in interminable lifetimes and service rendered to balance it.

Maybe I'm just hung up with the beauty of that idea, but why is that 'wrong'? It's not wrong, it's beautiful. See the example of Jesus and Guatama; how they demonstrated non-attachment yet both acted with the zeal of "true identity". They were opposed by dark forces but they were not stuck themselves in an oppositional mindset. They asserted truth to the lie and responded to attacks on themselves and others but they were not acting from the level of the lower-ego. They had extinguished the ignorance of the egoic mind and were acting from a higher level of Being. In the center of being there is non-attachment to the fruit of action BUT THERE IS ACTION. While there were apparent struggles in an outer sense - from the egoistic POV of others - the masters acted always from the peaceful heart of true being. There is no fear or agression there. But there is assertive force. See how one can be beyond human notions of "good" and "bad" yet act decisively according to the WILL of "true identity"?

Lastly, why is it Christ here and Krishna there and I AM in the end? Patchwork-spiritualism is clearly the nature of true discernment but you seem to be quite decisive in your terminology. Does it matter? Do words matter?
I'm with you. I say they don't matter unless they're being discredited through ignorance or malice. You must concede that if i'm going to illustrate James' hollow assertion of "newness" -- of everything including his claimed personal powers -- then my presentation of a historical lexicon of terms and concepts is unavoidable.

Is Rock'n Roll Music really there to further satan and how could it be that those spells work? This doesn't seem to fit with the well established spiritual philosophies propagated so far, at all for the simple reason that they say 'all is one', how can you then reject another?
All is ONE. Doesn't mean we should present ourselves a doormat for others to wipe their feet on. We have a right to freely walk our path. It is not a right respected by all. Some would utterly enslave us. Consequently, we have to defend the liberty we have. While we all originate in the ONE they exclude themselves from fraternity with us by vibration and intent. First, let them submit to the same path of Oneness with the light. Let them drink from the same fount within themselves. Let them forsake their feeding frenzy on humanity and act like human beings instead of vampires.

We are All One at the level of the Christ-Self. At that level we KNOW Oneness with all life. But we are not obliged to pour the light down the beast's throat in order to 'prove' we love. Nor embrace those who have an implacable hatred of the light and the light bearer. Mind i'm not speaking of relative good and evil. Most people on earth are relatively good and relatively evil. I'm speaking of absolute evil. It exists on earth and it gets away with a lot - in the eyes of man - because it generally is not seen for what it is.

You do not seem to be interested at all in the concept of 'the world is your mirror'. Just because i have exposed something as i see it, doesn't mean i don't share some responsibility for it's appearance in the cosmic mirror. If i were free of evil i would either be invulnerable in this world or safe in the next. But the objective manifestation of evil would still be in this world whether or not i myself still was. Dark forces don't rely on me for their objective personalities or for the choices they make in this world. That suggests of course that we don't all evolve together. We should, but we don't. Each expresses freewill as one chooses.

Nevertheless, I have come to be convinced that evil cloaks in the most positive dresses and I am thus extremely weary. This section expresses my thoughts on this better than I could do it myself.
You say to identify the 'false hierarchy' and I completely with you on that regard. However, what then?

Thanks,
CzymraWhat then? The Way to achieve invulnerability and to serve in that capacity at any level of reality is to realise "true identity" within. The fullness of that Presence is your shield and your s-word. (your sacred-word). Who knows how and where you are called to serve? Only You.

[milk and honey]

a prerequisite to the Sovereign Integrals' perspective, is to shift ones self from the savior/student model of existence,
The 'savior' is within. Don't wan't to release yourself from that. You are a student of that and your outer teacher, James. That is your choice. But let's not pretend savior/student is old hat. The misconception of it is old hat and James is perpetuating it.

by releasing one's dependency upon any hierarchy
The true Hierarchy have never encouraged dependency. So there is no need for a 'divorce' from a limiting force. True Hierarchy is unlimited, respectful of our freewill and still has a lot to offer. Release yourself from their positive influence if you will.

... this means moving into the Mastership model of existence where the indiviual is no longer "stuck" in a dualistic world... Exactly what the Masters Jesus and Guatama taught. They both called it "The Way". Your 'savior' is yourself. Realise self-mastery by externalising "true identity" through the human instrument. Both proved it could be done thousands of years ago. So have many others.

there is no good or bad, --- Relative egoistic notions defined by the lower-ego.(ie, the mind of anti-christ). However, there are vibrations of reality and unreality defined by the Mind of Christ within... ie, Not defined by the egoic-mind as you agree.

The ultimate goal of the Master is a Wholeness perspective.
It is a misconception to suggest that Wholeness is some kind of balance of light and dark forces within one's being. Complete Wholeness is only attained by the transformation of all negative energy in one's personal energy field. The soul otherwise cannot rise in vibration and resonance with "true identity" . Mastership is mastering the free flow of Christ energy through all levels of being.... All the chakras and All the subtle bodies must be unimpeded by negative energy to allow that. All inner resistance to the flow must be identified and surrendered because we are not seeking to retain a balance of oppositional forces in our being. That oppositional state is merely a definition of the dualistic ego. It is not real. We are not seeking merely to live with opposing forces. Beyond those opposing forces -- in the realm of "true identity" -- the complementary forces of spirit seek to FILL the the 'human instrument'. The Way must be cleared.

[Czymra]

Ah, this was most enlightening. Thank you so much, EndJoy, Asteram, Milk and Honey.

I do think you are talking about the same thing however, it's just a matter of wording. Ignoring whether James' newness is justified or not, maybe he does his part in allowing those drawn to his Material (which I partly am) to feel that 'speciality' we all need to get to believe.
Now give each other a hug. ;)

[cway]

Kerry Cassidy's interview on X2 radio
http://x2-radio.mypodcast.com/2008/01/Interview_with_Kerry_Cassidy_on_XSquared_Radio-70482.html

[ENdJOY]

The 'savior' is within. Don't wan't to release yourself from that. You are a student of that and your outer teacher, James. That is your choice. But let's not pretend savior/student is old hat. The misconception of it is old hat and James is perpetuating it.
well then, if the savior is within (which is exactlly what the WMMs teach) , there there is no need for a search for a savior, at what point does one become the teacher...or are you suggesting that we never become capable of teaching ourselves, or mastering our selves...or bottom line "saving ourselves"?? James is not a teacher, he only releases data ... he teaches no one, and no one is his student....when are you going to get that straight...all James does is translate materials and release them over the web. I teach myself...my SELF is my greatest teacher...that and the Universe...the study of the WMMs is cosmology...nothing less.


The true Hierarchy have never encouraged dependency. So there is no need for a 'divorce' from a limiting force. True Hierarchy is unlimited, respectful of our freewill and still has a lot to offer. Release yourself from their positive influence if you will. Please define "true Hierarchy....there are many hierarchal seats of power, Religion, Science, Politics, Culture...which of these is the "True" one in your mind? You have to be kidding about "never encouraged dependency"... that is all they do...they were created to control, they are self serving, and with hold information or favors, for the "worthy" which generally means those who comply and contribute the most to thier system. Hierarchy not only limits but it fragments society...take Religion for example...how many different religions and sub demoninations of religion are there? all preaching they are the "true church" and that others are less than true, so you will lend your support to them...when in fact none of them are true and if Jesus came today he would not go to any church. I find NOTHING positive about their influence on my life...other than fellowship and networking which I get from my family.

Exactly what the Masters Jesus and Guatama taught. They both called it "The Way". Your 'savior' is yourself. Realise self-mastery by externalising "true identity" through the human instrument. Both proved it could be done thousands of years ago. So have many others. Yes, this is exactaly what the WMMs promote...activate the Sovereign Integral consciousness...ie Christ Consciousness. Why would Jesus teach anything else...remember he is the head of the Lyricus Teaching Order...he wrote the WMMs

--- Relative egoistic notions defined by the lower-ego.(ie, the mind of anti-christ). However, there are vibrations of reality and unreality defined by the Mind of Christ within... ie, Not defined by the egoic-mind as you agree.
The ego is the "lower mind" limited by the HMS -stuck in duality... that is programed by parents, schools, church and the Genetic mind, to forget one's true Identity. Even those who refuse to conform are still programed by the very world in which they live.


It is a misconception to suggest that Wholeness is some kind of balance of light and dark forces within one's being. No it isn't it is programing that demands that you judge an issue one way or the other there is no difference (two sides of the same coin) Complete Wholeness is only attained by the transformation of all negative energy in one's personal energy field. There is no such thing as "negative energy"...that is a value YOU have given it ...it is energyThe soul otherwise cannot rise in vibration and resonance with "true identity" .The soul doesn't need to "rise"...it is the true idenity, always has been always will be Mastership is mastering the free flow of Christ energy through all levels of being....Mastry is over HMS that associates trigger words with emotional responses...when you reprogram your responses to express your TRUE Identity, and allow the virtues of the Heart to flow from you...then you have refined your ego and your perceptions are enhanced with Christ Consciousness nothing prevents you from doing this All the chakras and All the subtle bodies must be unimpeded by negative energy to allow that. again there is no negative energy...especially not in the soul ... all energy springs from the same SOURCE...you are the one who gives it a negative or positive value All inner resistance to the flow must be identified and surrendered because we are not seeking to retain a balance of oppositional forces in our being. of course We are seeking balance - anything else would be UN-BALANCEd lol... first, as a human, and then to be "centered" as the Sovereign Integral ... and being blanced means, as you well know, having equal portions of experience, on either side of the scale. That oppositional state is merely a definition of the dualistic ego. It is not real. Exactly...now you are talking truth We are not seeking merely to live with opposing forces. Beyond those opposing forces -- in the realm of "true identity" -- the complementary forces of spirit seek to FILL the the 'human instrument'. The Way must be cleared. Yes, the way must be cleared by letting go of any dependency one has upon the Hierarchy (external teacher/savior) and to experience the zero point of balance, so that the soul can express it SELF via the Human Instrument...as our TRUE Identity/Christ Consciousness/Sovereign Integral state of consciousness

I hate to restort to this kind of reply...it is less than "whole"... but that seems to be your prefered way to communicate... The thing that you need to get clear in your mind is that James is not teaching us anything, he is giving us a set of blueprints upon which we can create our own structure....He is expressing a Sovereign Integral's consciousness, as an example of following this "proven way"... which the WMs offered him, and are now offering every one of us... not on conditions of worthyness, but willingness to free ourselves...not from the Human Instrument, but from the Human MIND SYSTEM that is embedded into this body, altered by ANU.... The WMMs offer us the "tools" that will accelerate that process, or we can just "evolve" to that state of consciousness along with the rest of the species...thanks to those who "transform" and relay that information to us, via our interconnection or Oneness as a species.

I, personally welcome this opportunity to free myself from the HMS...others are quite content to support this system and appear completely unaware that it exists. The choice is yours... no one can do it for you, not even God will take away your free will.

the truth shall set you free...and the truth is YOU are a Sovereign Integral, wearing a body that suppresses that truth (via its limited mind), until you transform it (restore its original template) so that it can express your true identity.

[Nebula]

Interesting terminology for information we've read or heard before. Why make it complicated, with fancy terminology almost coming off like they are new concepts.
The perspective on the Anu and the Anunnaki is rather disagreeable and not in a favorable tone. How they dare question the will and actions of the Creator? Do you really think The Most High Supreme Being Anu, deceived, manipulated souls just to imprison them?

[ENdJOY]

Interesting terminology for information we've read or heard before. Why make it complicated, with fancy terminology almost coming off like they are new concepts.


It is not intended to make it "complicated" it is to give you a new word for you brain NOT to associate with the old ones... you ask ten different people what "soul" is...and you will get ten different answers...and none of them will define what we understand the Sovereign Integral is... these old words just get in the way when they are associated with a GSSC program.


The perspective on the Anu and the Anunnaki is rather disagreeable and not in a favorable tone. How they dare question the will and actions of the Creator? Do you really think The Most High Supreme Being Anu, deceived, manipulated souls just to imprison them?

yes, I do, because Anu IS NOT the "most high supreme being"... he is not THE creator, he is just creative... FIRST SOURCE is ALL of US...a collective consciousness...not a GOD but a harmonized tone of equality that you can get in tune with, by discovering your true identity (the sovereign integral -fragment of God) that dwells within you.

[asteram]

ahh, we've heard all this before, no? The sunrise is the sunrise, don't tell me it's anything more. The earth is a turtle-shell bowl held on the back of elephants, and the sun goes underneath in the night time. It's all karma, as I read yesterday on another forum. All karma.

What if?

Yes I'm talking to you, holy fool. What if?

Does this push your buttons? Good, say I. It is meant to do that. It is meant to make you question everything.

What care I if the book of Jesus says this and the book of Buddha says that and this other book tells me something different? What is my goal?

Give up on this lame **** of quoting others, arguing from their positions. What is your position? Do you get it or don't you? Is it yours or is it something you have accepted?

I think it's difficult to deny that the rejection of the hierarchy is heresy. How dare one do that? Dare you question all that you have accepted? Dare you question everything you have ever read, heard, experienced?

Do you think this writer is buying into the cosmology and dogma of the WingMakers? Do you think he is unable to discern? I (read I) hold no dogma. Rather I am ready to learn and to experience. Prove it, don't give me ********. I know ********.

Let's give a for instance. Let's say what James talks about in the interview has some validity. That all this spiritual hierarchy being discussed is actually a construct of a rather egotistic chip off the old block who saw the opportunity to cut a fat hog. This Anu. Is he special? Don't we all wish to construct reality and make it our own? What is creating your own reality other than that?

Do you think the Creator needs to be worshiped?

It's his creation, is it not? How much worship do you need from your own creation?

In the case we are talking about, where the Creator has split itself into myriad parts and given them each freewill: You yourself are a chip off the old block. Do you need worship from that you have created? Or do you perhaps have a grander goal in mind?

Here's what is going on from my point of view: the Creator has extended itself into the most dense form, and some entities have been seduced or intrigued into incarnating in dense form, in bodies such as our own. They may have been seduced into that by the inducements of the entity Anu; they didn't lack free will. They still don't. Nonetheless it has been a fascinating journey, has it not? Perhaps the Creator allowed it to happen in this way for a purpose?

What James may be saying is that part of the plan has been realized through the manifestation of actual soul/spirit/entities into these human forms, and these forms are personally sending back the experience to the Creator. The Creator has not yet, at least on this planet, fully manifested itself into its creation, but the potential to do so has been placed within the human instruments to access Source, to enable some unknown "source codes" to be activated, and for the full manifestation of the Creator's potential to be realized here. All feeds back to the Creator, but at the same time all feeds forward from the Creator.

I'll leave it there for now.

[Nebula]

Endjoy,

I know terms like:
The ALL
Ether
Soul
Densities / Planes/realms (material, force, spiritual, mental, divine truth, divine reality, eternal bliss)
Mental Reservior
Conciousness
Spirit
Ego
Illusion


Giving something a new word doesn't change what that thing is! I agree, you can get different perspectives of the soul from different ppl and all. But using fancy words for something we already know doesn't resonate for me. But if it resonates to you then all is agreeable as well.

We have long ways to go and there is much much more information to be learned on our journey back home. Back to the source of all. I have simply learned to call it "The ALL" which means everything in existence.
Anu the Most High is a creator as endowed by the ALL who created us and we are all within the ALL. I never said he was the source of all.

See we forgot our true nature. So I endevour to become a Supreme being once again, so i have to follow the example of those who came before us, on this journey back to the ALL.

Does that sound complicated to you?

[dayzero]

H aha!

Totally reversed my 'opinion'

I get it now, having listened to the Audio interviews with James.

[LucidJia]

Is there any way to listen to the full tracks of this music without paying for it? If not I am very skeptical. Why would he charge for this if it is an amazing gift given from an ancient race? Only the people with an extra $14.99 can evolve there DNA?

Jia.

[Czymra]

Is there any way to listen to the full tracks of this music without paying for it? If not I am very skeptical. Why would he charge for this if it is an amazing gift given from an ancient race? Only the people with an extra $14.99 can evolve there DNA?

Jia.

Well, after all the discussion, that's what eventually stopped me as well.
Free your soul, it's just 3.99.

[dayzero]

You'll find some free downloads of the music here;

http://www.wingmakers.com/wingmusic/music.html

Along with [IMO] a very good mp3 interview, 3 hours long, highly instructive.
And free also. Scroll down a little.....

http://www.wingmakers.com/whats-new.html

[dayzero]

"Do you really think The Most High Supreme Being Anu, deceived, manipulated souls just to imprison them? "


Ha ha! On your knees Human!

[clarkkent]

i have to say, all these various sources are confusing.

the james interview has good things in it, but so does micheal st clair and the "bloodline insider" --theres good material i agree with, but at the same time i really agree with "milk and honey" that the whole human goldminers doesnt really make sense. the idea that an ultra powerful "godlike" being couldnt find an easier way to get some "bling" other than creating "HMS" sounds like baloney to me, i remember steven greer shooting down this hypothesis saying were on the verge of being able to create elements from other elements with our technology NOW, the idea of a technologically and spiritually advanced annunaki not being able to do that is loony.

i also find the common thread with the 3 above mentioned people is they all believe earth is and the human body is a "prison", the illuminati operate under that idea too. at st clairs website i find it funny he comments about being so above the common man and being the "master" of light or crystals or whatever, not a very humble dude. the "bloodline insider" refers to all of us as "peasants' who wont escape this prison because we dont view it as such in the first place.

after all this reading from all these sources and david wilcock, and all the camelot witnesses..honestly all anyone can do is be a good person and treat yourself and others with respect if we all did that we'd be fine. everything else is just fun speculation as to the true nature of the universe. what good is knowing about quantum mechanics, alien visitation, the origin of humanity, meditation, the illuminati, and every other conspiracy on the planet if your an egotistical jerk.

id say being a good person outweighs figuring out how to master your breathing or becoming one with everything (especially since everyone already is ONE, you cant not be one with all)

ill give wilcock and dr greer this, they at least seem like nice guys with a good sense of humor certain witnesses give me the creeps.
anyhow, itll be an exciting next few years, ill be sure to not make the mistake of thinking im above the 'common people" for maybe being a little more informed.

[Malletzky]

...what good is knowing about quantum mechanics, alien visitation, the origin of humanity, meditation, the illuminati, and every other conspiracy on the planet if your an egotistical jerk.

id say being a good person outweighs figuring out how to master your breathing or becoming one with everything (especially since everyone already is ONE, you cant not be one with all)...

...anyhow, itll be an exciting next few years, ill be sure to not make the mistake of thinking im above the 'common people" for maybe being a little more informed.

Well said Clarkkent.

Just to point here that we, the humans, have been teached that our IQ is the main value of being "common" or special. But this is not true...

We also have an EQ = Emotional Intelligence Quotient.

And there it comes: an IQ of 140 or more is worthless, if you're an emotinal (or egoistical) jerk...

Read the Books EQ 1 and EQ2 from Daniel Goleman, you'll have an A-HA expirience...

:wub2:
malletzky

[Czymra]

I know this may sound a little off but I was just remembered why the Wingmakers were so familiar:

Music:
http://www.battle.net/window.shtml


Images:
http://www.iris.dti.ne.jp/~rucke/game/Sc/archon.gif

http://it.hule.harryda.se/itda06/vikkar/protoss.jpg
http://news.gotgame.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/starcraft-logo.jpg

[LucidJia]

You'll find some free downloads of the music here;

http://www.wingmakers.com/wingmusic/music.html

Along with [IMO] a very good mp3 interview, 3 hours long, highly instructive.
And free also. Scroll down a little.....

http://www.wingmakers.com/whats-new.html


1 free song and a few excerpts. Its like any other website they give you a tiny taste of it and hope you fork out the cash for the rest.

This is not how I percieve a very enlightened and nobel person in touch with the loving one infinite creator to act.

I know a few very good musicians that give all there music away just because they love to share. Why cant it be the same here?

Namaste, Jia.

[dayzero]

Oh well, Lucidija, it's not an issue that bothers me....and I'm one of those musicians you speak of...lol....
I'm happy to buy stuff I really like, and often do.




Here's those links to his interview with the webmaster.

http://www.wingmakers.com/downloads/Interview_James_Session_1.mp3
http://www.wingmakers.com/downloads/Interview_James_Session_2.mp3
http://www.wingmakers.com/downloads/Interview_James_Session_3.mp3

[LucidJia]

Oh well, Lucidija, it's not an issue that bothers me....and I'm one of those musicians you speak of...lol....
I'm happy to buy stuff I really like, and often do.




Here's those links to his interview with the webmaster.

http://www.wingmakers.com/downloads/Interview_James_Session_1.mp3
http://www.wingmakers.com/downloads/Interview_James_Session_2.mp3
http://www.wingmakers.com/downloads/Interview_James_Session_3.mp3


Hey thats cool that you share your music! :thumb_yello:

I have listened to the interviews and there is allot of great info and wisdom and I agree with allot of it. So I guess the music part isn't a big deal as he does give allot of great resources and has obviously put allot of time and effort into getting it to the public. Maybe I jumped to conclusions to soon .I think it just stunned me a bit after listening to his amazing story and reading allot of his info and then tried to download some of his music that he said help activate or enhance your soul and seeing a price. I guess the sceptical part of me jumped into action.

Anyway there is allot to be learned from this material.

Namaste, Jia.