JAMES WingMakers- WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT !

[ROSEKAMINSKI]

JAMES WingMakers- WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT !

I have been reading this wonderful forum probably from its inception.
But when I read few days ago that Kerry was so excited about WingMakers (which is considered to be a fraud for already about 10 years), I immediately registered to this respected forum, so that I will have a chance to respond after reading ‘Kerry’s project’.

Now that I read Kerrys’ questions and James replies, I perfectly understand why most people consider Wigmakers a fraud.

James did not reveal anything new, he did not even have the guts to be interviewed or recorded, and as expected, he just regurgitate meaningless sentences to create his own group of followers.
This is a classical psyop.

The answers to most of Kerry’s questions are available clearly in the
THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

We not need James for it.


Lets go back to reality
GIVE ME GEORGE GREEN ANYTIME.

Did George go south?
George, if you are reading this, please move fast,
My sources mention Martial Law in under 60 days.

Obama will bring change…to the worst.
America is finished as George said
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=137188

[fforest]

What ever you think is up to you....But please do not say (most people consider Wigmakers a fraud.) Say YOU YOURSELF consider Wigmakers a fraud.

You do not speak for me or any one else but YOU YOURSELF...

What James speakes of goes along perfectly with what Eckhart Tolle says and in his writings..

Is every thing James says 100% true about the histroy of life on earth ..That is impossible to know but it does not really matter ?

What matters is does some one perceive truth behind his teachings..

I give James a BIG BIG 2 thumbs up..

The JAMES WingMakers inteview is deep very heavy hard hitting stuff..
I doubt the majority of people could even make it through reading the interview much less take it all in.
Those with out courage will will stay stuck in the prison of their mind.

I commend you Kerry and Bill for pushing to the very fontiers of consciousness with all the great work you have done..The World Needs You more than it knows...

I get the feeling that the unexplored jungle to the other side might in the coming years turn into a small wooded medieval road with help from the likes of James and Eckhart Tolle and others....Thank you

[freespirit]

below are a some links witch parallel nicely with wingmaker.

http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/nov2/gazette.htm
http://www.crystalinks.com/gc_egyptconnection.html
http://www.philipcoppens.com/egyptiancanyon.html

?

freespirit

[EarthBowl]

I get the feeling that the unexplored jungle to the other side might in the coming years turn into a small wooded medieval road with help from the likes of James and Eckhart Tolle and others....Thank you[/QUOTE]

me too...
Brightening the Path..........
In oneness, equality, and truthfulness......................

[THE eXchanger]

I disagree with you !!!

I think this is the best piece of work
that, Ms. Kerry Cassidy, & Mr. Bill Ryan,
have ever done, since, they have started
Project Camelot, and, Project Avalon ...

the real secret is within -
NOT, something you are going to get
from someone else -
with big price tags hanging all over it !!!

it kind of makes me wonder -
as, sad, as, it was, at the time
when almost all the old books
that were burned in alexandria
maybe, the event,
it was NOT all that sad after all
(and, saved us, from having to go through
a lot of useless information, to get to what truly
is within)

it also kind of makes me wonder -
about, all the junk, and, NOT real treasures
that are being held in europe
(by people, who horded them, and,
in many cases, who killed people,
and, who stole them)
just how truly valueless,
those actions where,
and, how they really are just holding onto a bunch
of unless junk
(do you think, that is why, they are starting to try to sell it !!!)


and, that kind of shines
a vastly different light
on this day for me
as, it has put me into a space
where, i can just let it all go

as, everything, i truly need is
already inside of me :)

and, to me, that is "the grand portal"

i suggest people read it, at least three times :)

brightest blessings
of energy, light and love
susan
the eXchanger

[bossyroofer]

I just read the interview and ejoyed it very much, as always project camelot interviews are great and informitive.

[sunflower]

But when I read few days ago that Kerry was so excited about WingMakers (which is considered to be a fraud for already about 10 years), I immediately registered to this respected forum, so that I will have a chance to respond after reading ‘Kerry’s project’.

I read your post with interest. Please give the sources and elaborate why you feel that the WingMakers' site is a fraud. Fred Burke (Want To Know site) was a wee bit negative re James.

I have read and reread all the info on the three sites and still feel I have much to learn and change within myself.

I very much appreciated the first half of the interview which I read last night. I am going right back to finish it. There is really too much to take in all at once. Thank you, Kerry and Bill, for posting it on Camelot.

[Lotus]

What a shame that the first response to Kerry's new interview is so negative. And how presumptuous to declare - "I perfectly understand why most people consider Wigmakers a fraud." Quite arrogant to "know" what others think. Please just speak for yourself without any assumptions.
Fascinating how the post closes with an Obama bash. What a surprise.

Thank you Kerry for your great work, for your diligence, for illuminating the mystery. As James and others have suggested the gold lies within.

[sleepingnomore]

You will find or not find what you want to in the site. It is but one of many sources of information that needs to resonate with the reader, it is not for everyone nor was it meant to be.

[Gnosis5]

Right, eXchanger, everything is already within you. I myself would only "follow" someone who teaches me how to access the everything I need to know within me. As anyone can see from my posts, I am willing to do the work necessary to find out for myself, and then post it. And even though I put it out there as my truth it's not meant for anyone to swallow, just to set an example that anyone can potentially look at their own involvement with creation. I can't presently do it without a facilitator, but someday I will be able to wing it on my own.

cheers!
Gnosis





I disagree with you !!!

I think this is the best piece of work
that, Ms. Kerry Cassidy, & Mr. Bill Ryan,
have ever done, since, they have started
Project Camelot, and, Project Avalon ...

the real secret is within -
NOT, something you are going to get
from someone else -
with big price tags hanging all over it !!!

it kind of makes me wonder -
as, sad, as, it was, at the time
when almost all the old books
that were burned in alexandria
maybe, the event,
it was NOT all that sad after all
(and, saved us, from having to go through
a lot of useless information, to get to what truly
is within)

it also kind of makes me wonder -
about, all the junk, and, NOT real treasures
that are being held in europe
(by people, who horded them, and,
in many cases, who killed people,
and, who stole them)
just how truly valueless,
those actions where,
and, how they really are just holding onto a bunch
of unless junk
(do you think, that is why, they are starting to try to sell it !!!)


and, that kind of shines
a vastly different light
on this day for me
as, it has put me into a space
where, i can just let it all go

as, everything, i truly need is
already inside of me :)

and, to me, that is "the grand portal"

i suggest people read it, at least three times :)

brightest blessings
of energy, light and love
susan
the eXchanger

[ENdJOY]

It is great to see so many positive responses to a very negative topic...I guess it has been neutralized :tongue2:

I have no need, as many others here also express, for anyone to determine what is truth and what is not, for me. I find that what James has revealed in this interview resonate within me...and enhances and expands my consciousness of All that IS.

The world is so full of fault finders, they are a dime a dozen, show me a person who finds First Source in every manifestation of life, and I will call him a Hero...and a truly Unique individual.

A wholeness perspective demand that we reject nothing, and that we do not judge...these behaviors demonstrate one still caught up in the illusion of separation, and duality, still supporting the fragmentation of the species in service to a Genetic Mind dependent upon the Hierarchy

[day]

I resonate with the material as well from the Wingmakers site. I enjoyed the interview and read it twice.

I would give Kerry and Bill 10 stars or more for the questions they posed to James and the answers he gave put many things together over a long history.
I agree with Kerry who wrote:
There are few living today who in our estimation could approach his degree of clarity and vision into truth and the nature of what it means to be human.

end of quote

great work and thank you for persisting over the many months for this written interview

[Emman]

It is quite presumptuous to say that most people believe that James and Wingmakers are a fraud, which would be no less presumptuous to say that other people such as Dr. Deagle, David Wilcock, or Billy Meier are widely believed to be frauds. There is certainly a strong thread of doubt sown into the validity of the Wingmakers concept and story by many people. But, I wouldn't make a general statement as if purported to be a fact. I have had my doubt. The jury is still out as far as I'm concerned but after initially immersing myself into the Wingmakers website and then taking a 3 year hiatus from it, I have recently found myself drawn to it again.

I stumbled across the Wingmakers site over 3 years ago. It was the beginning of a journey that has lead me here. Out of an inkling out of the blue I felt like googling '2012'. The first site I came to was Jelaila Starr's Nibiruan Council. She had the Wingmakers link from her recommended websites page. When I went to the Wingmakers it immediately pulled me in. The artwork really resonated with me. I spent the next 3-4 months everyday on the site reading and taking everything in. I also wanted to see if there were any critical viewpoints of the Wingmakers, and of course there are. I began to grow doubts about the whole story. I wondered if indeed this were a disinformation type of thing to lead people astray. After gleaning every bit of text and information I could from Wingmakers, I stopped returning. I didn't return until just a few weeks ago, when I listened to Jame's audio interviews.

I feel as if I have taken a long arc back to the Wingmakers story. I follow certain channelers such as Sheldon Nidle, Mike Quinsey, and others. I wanted the type of information they were providing from their supposed Galactic Federation contacts. The Wingmakers and James didn't seem to address much of the stuff I was getting into such as 2012 and ascension. I read alot of channeled info from various sources that spoke of all the wonderful things to look forward to after ascension. In some ways I nearly dismissed the Wingmakers concept as probably a psyops as was suggested by the creator of this forum thread. But, after the Blossom Goodchild channeling of the certain appearance of a GF mothership, which we famously know as a total bust, I realized the dubiousness of channeling. I read any channeling with the largest grain of salt now. I listened to the 3rd interview of James a couple weeks ago. I found it profound. There was one particular moment in that interview where Mark Hempel felt light headed and very moved by what James said. I was totally moved also and experienced this with the interviewer as if we were both in the room at the same time.

I feel a pull back to Wingmakers. The Event Temples are really not that different from the concept of the Ground Crew. The Event Temples connect people on a quantum level, whereas the GC are more about physically connecting with others to bring about awareness and shift.

The people that follow Project Camelot know that the world is not as it seems. Indeed, we are in a matrix of sorts. After reading this newest James interview, the matrix is far greater than we could have imagined. Even though the material he presented was challenging and stretched the concept of what we think we know, I felt that what James was saying was as good an account of the origins of our flawed human paradigms that were intentially created and designed to be put in place. Now, I really can't look at things the same way again. Even what we think of as our most highest spiritual aspirations are within the confines of the control matrix systems that was designed to be a deception to keep humanity in a prison of unawareness of our true selves. I feel that today after reading Jame's interview, I have once again shifted. I will be pondering what was said in this interview for a long time.

[sammytray]

A FRAUD!!!???? :lmao: NOT. makes ya wonder WHO is REALLY on this forum when statements like that are made

[Ceara]

ROSEKAMINSKI,

Was that your one and only post?

What's so special about George Green anyway? All he does is sit there with a smirk on his face and jingle his gold coins.

Have you even bothered to research the Wingmaker material? If you had you would have learned that "James" does not want to be identified. What's the harm in that? Countless people over the ages have written stuff anonymously.

This seems to be the age where just about everyone wants attention and profit. But James is doing this work not expecting a profit out of it. 99% of the material is free and will continue to be free to all.

The Wingmaker/Lyricus material is not something that will pop out and give you all the answers. The material is designed to make you think, listen within, and reach your own conclusions.

Just because the material doesn't resonate with you doesn't mean you should discount it and claim it's a fraud.

The best teacher doesn't give the answers, but guides the student to discover his/her own answers. James is only a facilitator.

There will be no savior, no one to come along and make everything all right. It's up to you... me... everyone to take personal responsibility.

[Emman]

JAMES WingMakers- WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT !

I have been reading this wonderful forum probably from its inception.
But when I read few days ago that Kerry was so excited about WingMakers (which is considered to be a fraud for already about 10 years), I immediately registered to this respected forum, so that I will have a chance to respond after reading ‘Kerry’s project’.

Now that I read Kerrys’ questions and James replies, I perfectly understand why most people consider Wigmakers a fraud.

James did not reveal anything new, he did not even have the guts to be interviewed or recorded, and as expected, he just regurgitate meaningless sentences to create his own group of followers.
This is a classical psyop.

The answers to most of Kerry’s questions are available clearly in the
THE PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/przion1.htm

We not need James for it.


Lets go back to reality
GIVE ME GEORGE GREEN ANYTIME.

Did George go south?
George, if you are reading this, please move fast,
My sources mention Martial Law in under 60 days.

Obama will bring change…to the worst.
America is finished as George said
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=137188


Let's go back to reality. George Green.

lol

This is exactly the type of thinking that is part of our prison walls. James prefaced the start of the interview saying that what he was about to say would challenge and be difficult for some people. When someone says "this is reality", is it really?

Before anyone becomes too settled into their concept of reality as they think they know it, one may want to keep an open mind. After all, is this era we are now in all about breaking down the status quo and existing paradigms as we thought we knew them? Is this not the dismantling of the walls of deception through deliberate falsehoods carried over time that has kept the human spirit from full bloom?

[Gnosis5]

After being on Terra Firma for so long it takes a while for one to develop their "sea legs". Assuming they have the determination to go to sea :original:

[Luminari]

The biggest disappointment is you ROSEKAMINSKI

[elsinorelore]

I think that, having a different opinion is what makes each of us unique. My reality isnt neccesarily (sp?) someone elses. I think its more important to learn why someone else feels differently about a topic, maybe theres something to be learned from it! We are all on different paths, at different speeds, that doesnt make someone wrong for having an opinion in my book. I read the interview, and I have to admit, for me, it was a bit hard to comprehend, that doesnt mean I think its fake, it just tells me, I need to read it again!!! I usually have to re-read most stuff a few times till it moves me 1 way or another. So, Im very glad to see that "ROSEKAMINSKI" wrote what she/he thinks and feels, its important to me to try and see all sides and speak our own truth as we feel it to be.

[Emman]

I think that, having a different opinion is what makes each of us unique. My reality isnt neccesarily (sp?) someone elses. I think its more important to learn why someone else feels differently about a topic, maybe theres something to be learned from it! We are all on different paths, at different speeds, that doesnt make someone wrong for having an opinion in my book. I read the interview, and I have to admit, for me, it was a bit hard to comprehend, that doesnt mean I think its fake, it just tells me, I need to read it again!!! I usually have to re-read most stuff a few times till it moves me 1 way or another. So, Im very glad to see that "ROSEKAMINSKI" wrote what she/he thinks and feels, its important to me to try and see all sides and speak our own truth as we feel it to be.


I concur with this post. I regret doing a 'lol' on my previous post towards ROSEKAMINSKI regarding "get back to reality". I actually was very moved by George Green's initial interview on Camelot. But, I react somewhat cynically and jaded when I hear someone declare something to be "reality". Not that I don't think Green is not a valid witness to his experiences, I realize that I cannot become too attached to a notion of what I believe reality to be based upon someone elses experiences and words. Green's subsequent interviews are rather alarming like Bill Deagles. I respect their viewpoints but after a while I find that I need to set aside what they say and not become attached to their views. My lol reaction was really saying, are you sure Green is reality?

The James interview has added another wrinkle in our collective views of what we think of the PowersThatBe and the underlying control of the world. James is pushing the envelope of our paradigms much in the same manner that David Icke with his reptillian shape shifting Illuminatis (when I first came across Icke I had to walk away shaking my head and didn't look at his material for several year later), to Alex Collier, to Billy Meier, to Edgar Cayce, and many other people who have brought to the table information that shakes up our view of reality as we think we've known it.

Are we not in a period that is breaking down the old paradigms? I believe that in the next years that follow we will be seeing things that will defy our expectations of what we belief to be so. Just when we think we have a handle on things, we will be revealed to another aspect of what is going on that will blow our minds. It will be a period that will likely challenge any notions we have of "reality". As these sands of reality shift underneath our very feet, we may want to keep a sense of openess, flexibility, emotional neutrality, and flow to whatever may come up.

[iamhearing]

The biggest disappointment is you ROSEKAMINSKI

I think that was a little harsh my friend, and yes maybe rose made a few sweeping assumtions, either way to err is to be human!

How would anyone feel to be told they're a disappointment 2 wrongs dont make a right!

No offence intended to either party.

Namaste

[EarthBowl]

As these sands of reality shift underneath our very feet, we may want to keep a sense of openess, flexibility, emotional neutrality, and flow to whatever may come up.

YES! I agree- you said it beautifully. And during this 'shifting' time, we will have many opportunities for inclusion. If nothing else- we will come to understand that we need each other- we are all one.:original:
To aid us in our realization of that Oneness ( or Soveriegn Integral- Grand pORTAL) is what I see as the WingMakers purpose.

[Rebel4Life]

anyone trying to sell me stuff I see them as a fraud :smoke: just my .02 cents

[coldMiner]

The biggest disappointment is you ROSEKAMINSKI
He is entitled to have his own opinion.
The biggest disappointment here is all you people that are so sensitive when someone attacks your "inner belief".
Be careful when you open your mind so that your brain don't drop out.

[recallone]

James did not reveal anything new, he did not even have the guts to be interviewed or recorded, and as expected, he just regurgitate meaningless sentences to create his own group of followers.
This is a classical psyop.



No - that this is your one and only post is classic psyop. Such a response! Gives the interview much more credence than I'd previously given it. Scared? You ought to be. Your masters' grip is faltering.

Like many of you, I resonated with it too. More and more I'm finding myself of the mind that nobody's information is nearly as important as what I'll find inside. This kind of confirmation is a breath of fresh air in here, especially amongst so many of the posts endorsing such-and-such's opinion, book, philosophy and so on.

Nice going, Kerry. Thanks for getting this interview out to the public. :thumb_yello:

Peace and light,
recallone

[Gnosis5]

No - that this is your one and only post is classic psyop. Such a response! Gives the interview much more credence than I'd previously given it. Scared? You ought to be. Your masters' grip is faltering.

Like many of you, I resonated with it too. More and more I'm finding myself of the mind that nobody's information is nearly as important as what I'll find inside. This kind of confirmation is a breath of fresh air in here, especially amongst so many of the posts endorsing such-and-such's opinion, book, philosophy and so on.

Nice going, Kerry. Thanks for getting this interview out to the public. :thumb_yello:

Peace and light,
recallone


That's what I'm seeing here too: The telltale button pushing generalities and then the "forever" communication lag time when asked to be more specific. Either a rabble rouser or one of the rabble already roused, not a truth seeker, for truths are ever being revealed (lies being peeled off) until we regain the peaceful awareness of nothingness while retaining our potential for ever increasing "somethingnesses".

Now, anyone ready to discuss "Quantum Breathing" ??? :original:

[EarthBowl]

Now, anyone ready to discuss "Quantum Breathing" ??? :original:

Count me in Gnosis.
It would be interesting and helpful to share our Quantum Breathing experience with others who are drawn to it.

[ENdJOY]

anyone trying to sell me stuff I see them as a fraud :smoke: just my .02 cents


Yes, I always used this as a scale, but James isn't trying to sell anything ... he has donated his life's work, to be used to assist you to discover your Self.

He continues to contribute his time, energy and wisdom for free.

He doesn't do book tours, talk shows, or give private council...even though he has been asked to do so.

He remains fairly anonymous, because he desires the work to stand alone.

All that is needed is found on the (three) website for free. While the music (tool) does accelerate the process, the very slim profits go towards the technology required to keep them within the public's reach.

think of it as as a one time tithing...:lol3:

[Gnosis5]

I'm in :original:

[Gnosis5]

Yes, I always used this as a scale, but James isn't trying to sell anything ... he has donated his life's work, to be used to assist you to discover your Self.

He continues to contribute his time, energy and wisdom for free.

He doesn't do book tours, talk shows, or give private council...even though he has been asked to do so.

He remains fairly anonymous, because he desires the work to stand alone.

All that is needed is found on the (three) website for free. While the music (tool) does accelerate the process, the very slim profits go towards the technology required to keep them within the public's reach.

think of it as as a one time tithing...:lol3:

Agreed. IMHO, those spiritual facilitators who are truly of service have varying ideas about themselves and their work and what they should be charging, but I do not know a really professional spiritual facilitator who can live without some income, do you? Avoid the ego-centered leaders and their cults. The real "Pay" of a spiritual facilitator is seeing you become more aware.

These ones are willing to listen patiently for hours on end to babbling mind chatter just for the pure joy of that one big "AHA" that finally comes forth.

Hubby and I are leaning more towards research and family and friends and we are arranging our lives to be able to work a pleasing business and have at least 4 hours a day for our timeless work.

But right now, I am at the level where I need the help of a facilitator and I'm willing to pay for it to the degree that I benefit from the experience. We pay for our experiences, whether it is that juicy angus steak or movie and popcorn or a past life session.

James gave a process (quantum breathing) that does not cost anyone a cent so no one has a just cause to call him a fraud because he gets some money from selling his artistic efforts.

However, if you felt you did not have the initial gumption to start and follow through on the process then you might want to form a group or, worst case, exchange with someone to act as your personal facilitator/coach until you developed it as a life routine.

Even in the Old Testament it says not to muzzle the ox that treads the grain, make sense?

[Mercuryae]

Im not sure what to think of it

I found the way the text was constructed very artificial and dull. All the terminology thrown around makes me feel like Im on some sort of IT Masterclass ;I found it a very technical text overall, and Im not very appreciative of that ^^

I cant really judge about the actual content, these are concepts that are beyond my grasp really, its doesnt really makes a lot of sense firsthand

I dont think Ill ever come to terms with being engineered on so many levels by some psychotic Anunnaki king who is into slavery.

The more I delve into the whole UFO/Spirituality/2012 etc thing the more I feel its one big Freakshow where there is a lot of clowns holding some magic stick in their hand with "I have the Wisdom" incarved on it. We have so many of them: Alex Collier, Billy Meier, David Wilcock, Robert Dean, James etcetcetc

They all say something different

I think its not only counter-productive and confusing but its also very discouraging

[milk and honey]

Im not sure what to think of it

I found the way the text was constructed very artificial and dull. All the terminology thrown around makes me feel like Im on some sort of IT Masterclass ;I found it a very technical text overall, and Im not very appreciative of that ^^
That's the way i saw it too. Highly clinical and unnattractive at that level alone.

I cant really judge about the actual content, these are concepts that are beyond my grasp really, its doesnt really makes a lot of sense firsthand
I believe the clinical complexity of it is deliberate for a couple reasons.

One, you are more likely to remain in the analytical mind than appraise it at a spiritual level.

Two, when you do discern it from that level you recognise that the main concepts describing the problem - with human consciousness - and the spiritual solution to same, are identical to what the adepts have always taught. I'm speaking of their true esoteric message not the religious misrepresentations which James also shares. James has obviously studied the world's religions and read a stack of commentaries and metaphysical literature then substituted his own terminology for theirs. Rather than acknowledge their work he dismisses it as a product of the 'Human Mind System' ... you know, the lower-ego and mass consciousness.

There are quite a few other lumps in it too.

The more I delve into the whole UFO/Spirituality/2012 etc thing the more I feel its one big Freakshow where there is a lot of clowns holding some magic stick in their hand with "I have the Wisdom" incarved on it. We have so many of them: Alex Collier, Billy Meier, David Wilcock, Robert Dean, James etcetcetc

They all say something different

I think its not only counter-productive and confusing but its also very discouraging
He who has found his own mind knows when it is being twisted.
.

[linkes]

HI

I agree with you 100% I also noticed the similarities between what james said with Eckhart Tolle

i find we get so lost in all this goblediegoop of fairys and angels and UFOS that we loose track of who we truly are.

Thank God for eckhart he brought me back to planet earth and now this james interview WOW

I didnt feel at all upset I was relieved really when I read what he had to say I was glad that evil is not something that we needed to experiance, to know we already know who we are.

Please the greatest fruad is the fact that we continue to allow oursleves to be traped. Think about how many times they have said earth is protected no one can get to us hang on what they mean is we are trapped.

YAY finally :trumpet:


What ever you think is up to you....But please do not say (most people consider Wigmakers a fraud.) Say YOU YOURSELF consider Wigmakers a fraud.

You do not speak for me or any one else but YOU YOURSELF...

What James speakes of goes along perfectly with what Eckhart Tolle says and in his writings..

Is every thing James says 100% true about the histroy of life on earth ..That is impossible to know but it does not really matter ?

What matters is does some one perceive truth behind his teachings..

I give James a BIG BIG 2 thumbs up..

The JAMES WingMakers inteview is deep very heavy hard hitting stuff..
I doubt the majority of people could even make it through reading the interview much less take it all in.
Those with out courage will will stay stuck in the prison of their mind.

I commend you Kerry and Bill for pushing to the very fontiers of consciousness with all the great work you have done..The World Needs You more than it knows...

I get the feeling that the unexplored jungle to the other side might in the coming years turn into a small wooded medieval road with help from the likes of James and Eckhart Tolle and others....Thank you

[historycircus]

Yep.

:fish::insane::blowup::giljotiini:

[ENdJOY]

I found the way the text was constructed very artificial and dull. All the terminology thrown around makes me feel like Im on some sort of IT Masterclass ;I found it a very technical text overall, and Im not very appreciative of that

pray tell, how do you define spiritual aspects, when the language is so infused with programing... you must invent new words, to convey new concepts.

Through-out our history there has been snips and pieces of the "Language of Light" found and cherished ... the kabbalists, masters of grammtia and numerology often use four or more words to describe the same thing, depending on the level of consciousness they are trying to reveal...or reach...it just makes for a jumble of confusion...

The language of the WM's materials are "embedded" with information that reveals itself as the reader penetrates the levels of consciousness...and quits comparing it with other writings.

When I first started reading the materials, I would find myself saying, "oh yeah, I know what they are talking about here, they are just using different word for terms I already know"...but I found that they were using different words, because the associations I made with those words were incorrect...

I found myself scanning over things, looking for something "new" to be revealed, and the only thing new was the words they used for something I had already established a belief system around. When I found that they didn't really fit into my established belief system or word association programs, I just skipped over it, still believing my understanding was complete.

It wasn't until I started discussing my "interpretations" of the passages, that I found others had gotten a completely different meaning from them. Only when we examined them together in a forum, did we discover the "magic" that they contained...when we used the same quotes to support our different levels of understanding it became apparent that we would have to change our belief systems and bring them into alignment to get the whole message.

The Wingmaker's world, has many doors that invite readers into it...there is the UFO door, the Conspiracy Door, the Spirituality door, the Service to others door, the alternate reality door, the Scientific door, the Metaphysical door, and others... there needs to be a common language that encompass all the different word association that each of these fragmented teachings present...and what the members share in our "mundane" language, bridges the gaps for each other.

take for example, the word "spirit"... and walk that through each of these doors and see how it changes ... and the universal meaning is lost. With the assistance of a Glossary, as a foundation, the WM's language is building a skyscraper that will accommodate everyone comfortably...no matter which door they enter by... there will be no misunderstandings if there is a language that is unique to this world... heretofore unknown.

[ENdJOY]

James has obviously studied the world's religions and read a stack of commentaries and metaphysical literature then substituted his own terminology for theirs

James did NOT write the WM's materials...

"I can be likened to a translator who "transports" already existing Tributary Zones to earth in the form of a comprehensible sensory data stream. This data stream will have both explicit and implicit content that incarnating souls will be tuned to recognize. This material will awaken them to the blueprints of discovery that were encoded into their DNA at conception.

My information -- as it pertains to the WingMakers' material -- derives from the seven Tributary Zones that were created by this very same teaching organization. I was involved in the design of these Tributary Zones, and consequently commissioned to translate them into data streams appropriate for the human neuroanatomical system, which required my incarnation into a human body." (snipped from Answer 9 session 1)



Answer 47 – I have always been consistent on this issue. I am not the creator of the WingMakers materials, I am the translator. The materials existed before I incarnated on earth. I have taken the original content and transduced it (for lack of a better term) into a form (music, art, words, symbols) that would resonate to the human senses and mind. The original materials, of which only a small fraction has been translated and published on the Internet, are created by a subset of the WingMakers called Lyricus (my term). Lyricus teachers assembled the materials and have exported them to the various life-bearing planets like Earth. At the appropriate time, a lineage of teachers incarnate and begin the rigorous process of translating the materials into “human form”. I am merely the first of this lineage to begin the process of translation. As to your question, the lineage of teachers I speak of do – in a real sense – represent humanity’s future.

"The WingMakers' materials are designed in a different way from anything that has ever been manifested on earth. It is a collection of encoded sensory data streams" (snipped from A. 24 session 2)

http://www.wingmakers.com/jamesqa.html

[DenisSelivanov]

I concur with this post. I regret doing a 'lol' on my previous post towards ROSEKAMINSKI regarding "get back to reality". I actually was very moved by George Green's initial interview on Camelot. But, I react somewhat cynically and jaded when I hear someone declare something to be "reality". Not that I don't think Green is not a valid witness to his experiences, I realize that I cannot become too attached to a notion of what I believe reality to be based upon someone elses experiences and words. Green's subsequent interviews are rather alarming like Bill Deagles. I respect their viewpoints but after a while I find that I need to set aside what they say and not become attached to their views. My lol reaction was really saying, are you sure Green is reality?

The James interview has added another wrinkle in our collective views of what we think of the PowersThatBe and the underlying control of the world. James is pushing the envelope of our paradigms much in the same manner that David Icke with his reptillian shape shifting Illuminatis (when I first came across Icke I had to walk away shaking my head and didn't look at his material for several year later), to Alex Collier, to Billy Meier, to Edgar Cayce, and many other people who have brought to the table information that shakes up our view of reality as we think we've known it.

Are we not in a period that is breaking down the old paradigms? I believe that in the next years that follow we will be seeing things that will defy our expectations of what we belief to be so. Just when we think we have a handle on things, we will be revealed to another aspect of what is going on that will blow our minds. It will be a period that will likely challenge any notions we have of "reality". As these sands of reality shift underneath our very feet, we may want to keep a sense of openess, flexibility, emotional neutrality, and flow to whatever may come up.


so what are we going to do next Brain :)

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm188/denisselivanov/pinky.jpg

[DenisSelivanov]

That's what I'm seeing here too: The telltale button pushing generalities and then the "forever" communication lag time when asked to be more specific. Either a rabble rouser or one of the rabble already roused, not a truth seeker, for truths are ever being revealed (lies being peeled off) until we regain the peaceful awareness of nothingness while retaining our potential for ever increasing "somethingnesses".

Now, anyone ready to discuss "Quantum Breathing" ??? :original:

yes ive been doing it for 3 days now and wow its just like he said it that some will get the wow feeling as a result and wow i did :), it's really beneifical i meditated before though i have not in full incorporated this technique of meditation but it is very usefull even still, and it defenatly is different than any other form of meditation i did in the past, pehaps the sequence has a much greater affect than i did not know :)

[DenisSelivanov]

Im not sure what to think of it

I found the way the text was constructed very artificial and dull. All the terminology thrown around makes me feel like Im on some sort of IT Masterclass ;I found it a very technical text overall, and Im not very appreciative of that ^^

I cant really judge about the actual content, these are concepts that are beyond my grasp really, its doesnt really makes a lot of sense firsthand

I dont think Ill ever come to terms with being engineered on so many levels by some psychotic Anunnaki king who is into slavery.

The more I delve into the whole UFO/Spirituality/2012 etc thing the more I feel its one big Freakshow where there is a lot of clowns holding some magic stick in their hand with "I have the Wisdom" incarved on it. We have so many of them: Alex Collier, Billy Meier, David Wilcock, Robert Dean, James etcetcetc

They all say something different

I think its not only counter-productive and confusing but its also very discouraging


clowns with sticks? thats a rather odd analogy, but maybe there is something to the clowns with sticks, maybe they all hold a piece of the puzzle and maybe by working together we can all make sence of it, it's not that complicated either way you feel the truth and if its confusing than take your time :)

[sleepingnomore]

This is just an observation but why has the author of this thread made such a concerted effort on this forum to discredit the Wingmakers material??????

Only 4 postings and 2 different topics started on the subject, spamming every category on the forum.

[milk and honey]

pray tell, how do you define spiritual aspects, when the language is so infused with programing... you must invent new words, to convey new concepts.There's nothing wrong with inventing new words for new concepts but there is certainly something wrong with pretending it is a new concept (when it's not) just by the act of renaming it with a clinical new term. What's more, to then proceed to highlight only the exoteric misrepresentations of the old terms (ie, soul, spirit, ascension, atma, God, etc) in order to more easily dismiss them is questionable to say the least.

Many of us have come to an understanding of esoteric meanings in the older religious texts and for those who haven't, the adepts have continued ever since to refine their terms in some of the modern texts.

Beginning around the mid 19th century some excellent metaphysical works have been released by the spiritual adepts which have clarified their concepts and revealed the thread of truth flowing through them all.

Through-out our history there has been snips and pieces of the "Language of Light" found and cherished ... the kabbalists, masters of grammtia and numerology often use four or more words to describe the same thing, depending on the level of consciousness they are trying to reveal...or reach...iit just makes for a jumble of confusion...
Only if the terms are misunderstood. James is hindering our understanding of the continuity of truth by misrepresenting, then dismissing, the older terms as mere products of the 'Human Mind system'. But he's mistaken about that. Those concepts were produced by the adepts to reflect the truth of 'being' and 'anti-being' in order to facilitate our Self-knowledge and ascension into higher levels of being. Believe it or not many people have already achieved that through the self-realisation of spiritual Selfhood.

The language of the WM's materials are "embedded" with information that reveals itself as the reader penetrates the levels of consciousness...and quits comparing it with other writings.
All language is "embedded" with deeper information which can be revealed to an intuitive heart.

The only question really is: From what level of consciousness does the language originate?

That question cannot be resolved on the surface because the material may use some pure concepts yet be using them to deliver others in a self serving agenda.

I have compared the WMM with other channelled material and just one of the things i've found in various places is the concept of "embedding". As i said i have no objection to that, i've found it in many places over the years. WMM readers should realise that James' source (?) did not invent a brand new addition to language in their assertion that the material is "embedded". The ancient scriptures are likewise "embedded" and reveal their esoteric meaning to intuitive readers.

As paul said: "The word is discerned by the (inner) spiritual man not by the (outer) carnal man (the outer-mental faculty).

The adepts have 'embedded' similar coding into subsequent additions to the older texts and in many of those more modern works they pointedly mention that they have. So "embedding" is not a new concept by any stretch and James has likely read about it in his obvious research of other scriptural and metaphysical texts.

When I first started reading the materials, I would find myself saying, "oh yeah, I know what they are talking about here, they are just using different word for terms I already know"... but I found that they were using different words, because the associations I made with those words were incorrect...
It's not difficult to make incorrect associations for certain words in the WMM because the mistakes are already there by virtue of James' own misrepresentations of those words. If he would present them as originally intended (and clarified frequently since) then the origin of the same concepts he uses in the WMM would be completely obvious. But he doesn't want us to know they're the same. He'd rather dismiss his own misrepresentations of older terms (his straw men) than explain their real meaning and original intent. The question, as i asked elsewhere is "why".

Further thoughts on that are here @ post #65 near bottom of page :http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7928&page=3

... there needs to be a common language that encompass all the different word association that each of these fragmented teachings present...and what the members share in our "mundane" language, bridges the gaps for each other.
A common language should integrate the truth concepts of the past rather than misrepresenting them and dismissing them as mere products of the "HMS".

take for example, the word "spirit"... and walk that through each of these doors and see how it changes ... and the universal meaning is lost. With the assistance of a Glossary, as a foundation, the WM's language is building a skyscraper that will accommodate everyone comfortably...no matter which door they enter by... there will be no misunderstandings if there is a language that is unique to this world... heretofore unknown.
Problem is the WMM is trying to wipe the true meaning of those terms. It seeks to rewrite the lexicon in order to demolish faith in the accuracy of other sources in relation to itself in the hope of gaining a monopoly on our attention.

The WMM is not a universal anything. It is just another addition to the lexicon that, like everything else, prefers it's own terminology. It prefers it's own to the extent that it will misrepresent others.

[milk and honey]

James did NOT write the WM's materials...
James DID write the WMs materials.

If he or a team of terrestrial creative writers didn't concieve of and write the WMM then he 'channelled' / 'translated' them from lower-astral entities in the same fashion as others do and wrote them down in the same way. The differences that James describes in the quote below are purely semantic obfuscations to make him appear singularly unique and indispensable to the rest of humanity and the planet.

"I can be likened to a translator who "transports" already existing Tributary Zones to earth in the form of a comprehensible sensory data stream. This data stream will have both explicit and implicit content that incarnating souls will be tuned to recognize. This material will awaken them to the blueprints of discovery that were encoded into their DNA at conception.

My information -- as it pertains to the WingMakers' material -- derives from the seven Tributary Zones that were created by this very same teaching organization. I was involved in the design of these Tributary Zones, and consequently commissioned to translate them into data streams appropriate for the human neuroanatomical system, which required my incarnation into a human body." (snipped from Answer 9 session 1)

"The WingMakers' materials are designed in a different way from anything that has ever been manifested on earth. It is a collection of encoded sensory data streams" (snipped from A. 24 session 2)

http://www.wingmakers.com/jamesqa.html
James believes that our DNA can be activated to awaken our otherwise hidden faculties. --He's got a shiny new name for that too -- "blueprints of discovery". He also believes that external portals are integral to our spiritual awakening. All this is typical fodder from 'alien saviors'. There's either something physically wrong with you which they want the credit for fixing (ie, your DNA). Or they've just opened an indispensable portal which is unprecedented, which you can't live without and which they'd also like to take the credit for. They are attempting to ingratiate themselves into the role of widwives in this spiritual window of opportunity which they are powerless to prevent. The most they can do is don the sheep's clothing and take all the credit for what they know is happening inside you and which they hope to hell they can prevent.

Have you ever fed a chook with a handful of wheat a few grains at a time? It will follow you wherever you lead it.

Whoever they are (almost certainly terrestrial psy-ops but maybe lower-astral entities) they can offer us nothing we need. Higher faculties are a soul faculty not a function of human DNA. In the western scriptures these faculties were called the "gifts of the spirit" and were attained naturally as the soul came into vibrational resonance with inner-Spirit. In the east they call these faculties the "siddhis".

Throughout history many people have resolved the conflicts of the dualistic egoic mind and achieved a vibrational proximity (a Oneness) with the Spiritual-Self which resulted in the awakening of these soul powers. The (inner) portal has always been open and still is. 'Aliens' in UFOs have had nothing to do with that at any time.
.

[milk and honey]

Duplicate deleted.

[THE eXchanger]

strike 1 :mfr_lol:

[Oneworld719]

Kerry,
I'm ecstatic about your interview !! Thank You-All the information has continued to fill in many blanks that were left open from the Wingmakers inception, and as James makes clear all things will be revealed. I live by the 6-heart virtues and my life has been more then amazing!!!!!!
ROSEKAMINSKI- you have done a great service to the Wingmakers, Lyricus and Events Temple...your personal has made many people CURIOUS and now they will seek out this amazing information. Thank You-this is the best form of advertising ever !!
To all others who may struggle with the wording...don't give up, eventually you will understand. Start with embracing the virtues, quatum breathing and the rest will flow.
OneWorld719

[Elephant Man]

re quantum breathing. i havnt read every post, so bear with me if this has been mentioned. the technique described is an ancient yogic practise. its so simple to do and because of its simplicity gets overlooked. the results are quite amazing and extremely powerful, basically its all you need to do, the answers will follow. I think its the best bit of info ive seen since joining.

Om Shanti Om :original:

[milk and honey]

re quantum breathing. i havnt read every post, so bear with me if this has been mentioned. the technique described is an ancient yogic practise. its so simple to do and because of its simplicity gets overlooked. the results are quite amazing and extremely powerful, basically its all you need to do, the answers will follow. I think its the best bit of info ive seen since joining.

Om Shanti Om :original:
You're quite right. Someone referred to it in the early 20th century as the "sacred fire breath". It's apparantly been used for millenia and practiced with success.

I'd be surprised if James acknowledged that though. He was probably the first to recieve it through the portal, post 1998.

[futureyes]

as individual souls we all bring something different to the table, all have different passions that lead us to our collective purpose
only we know within ourselves what resonates and what doesn't, it is not possible to tell another what resonates within them for we don't know, we're not meant to know, we are only meant to learn from their truth so we can locate our own and all move forward as one ...

have we not as yet learned to eat what tastes good for us, chew it slowly, digest what we need to to continue growing and spit out what lacks substance for our own selves ...

it comes down to respecting what you believe tastes good isn't necessarily appealing to another, BUT ... allow them to do their own chewing and digesting for if it tastes ok to them, it probably is exactly what they need for their well being and continued growth in wisdom

now i'm hungry ... what to sink my teeth into next ... hmmm

it's just a matter of respect and trust others that they know what is beneficial for them, let them decide for themselves, don't stand in their way at the buffet table and no one will stand in yours :original:

[martina]

Im not sure what to think of it

I found the way the text was constructed very artificial and dull. All the terminology thrown around makes me feel like Im on some sort of IT Masterclass ;I found it a very technical text overall, and Im not very appreciative of that ^^

I cant really judge about the actual content, these are concepts that are beyond my grasp really, its doesnt really makes a lot of sense firsthand

I dont think Ill ever come to terms with being engineered on so many levels by some psychotic Anunnaki king who is into slavery.

The more I delve into the whole UFO/Spirituality/2012 etc thing the more I feel its one big Freakshow where there is a lot of clowns holding some magic stick in their hand with "I have the Wisdom" incarved on it. We have so many of them: Alex Collier, Billy Meier, David Wilcock, Robert Dean, James etcetcetc

They all say something different

I think its not only counter-productive and confusing but its also very discouraging

That was what I thought also, but I see not so many differents and that is also why I don't understand that James claims all the knowledge, I am on the half of the intreview, but I did n't read realy anything new. All the spiritual things I and many people I know, knows all this already for more than 30 years. And I think that his sayings about being "dead" is not true, because, there are so many people who experience a indescribably bliss, splender and love and wisdom during a journey through the univers, during a near dead-experience.

[ENdJOY]

Dear Milk and Honey, I respect your personal perspective of what I have written and quoted from the Wingmakers "official" website, however you fail to take into consideration that the materials presented are not meant to enhance or expand old perverted mythologies of the Hierarchal Religious quarter...designed for control.

they are written to awaken those sleepers who are lulled into complacency and apathy to question "Authorities", or to not comply with the HMS.

They were written to encourage individuals to follow their Hearts...and to manifest their full potential as heirs to godliness...found in their own DNA.

Just because YOU believe, that the materials were written or channeled, does not MAKE IT SO...and I have no reason to doubt James' honesty and integrity after ten years of public scrutiny...when he tell us that these materials were created before he incarnated and his mission in this life is to present them to the world...to the best of his abilities, without distortion.


Your preconceived notions about what is being revealed in this interview, is just one more example of why comparing them with other works, only leads to confusion and blocks ones efforts to get the message, while being focused upon the messenger.

[PodWORLD]

Rose was disappointed and had an opinion about it. Leave it at that the woman's entitled. I've read far worse on here.

If you're so in touch with your personal spirit and wholeness then don't be such a bitch when someone says something you don't like. Forgive them in silence and make a positive contribution to balance it.

[ENdJOY]

Just as science is constantly redefining the Universe, spiritual explorers are constantly redefining the God-Spirit-Soul Complex. The layers of knowledge are near infinite in both cases, and, at their core, have mathematical counterparts at an octave that humanity has yet to even imagine, let alone discover. Thus, any suggestion that I perceive the achievements and contributions of humanity’s spiritual or scientific explorers as lacking or deceptive is only a result of not understanding the larger context of time and the depth of the “onion” we are collectively “peeling” – in both the scientific and spiritual dimensions. (conclusion to Interview)

[efields]

I disagree with you !!!

I think this is the best piece of work
that, Ms. Kerry Cassidy, & Mr. Bill Ryan,
have ever done, since, they have started
Project Camelot, and, Project Avalon ...

the real secret is within -
NOT, something you are going to get
from someone else -
with big price tags hanging all over it !!!

and, how they really are just holding onto a bunch
of unless junk
(do you think, that is why, they are starting to try to sell it !!!)


as, everything, i truly need is
already inside of me :)

and, to me, that is "the grand portal"

i suggest people read it, at least three times :)

brightest blessings
of energy, light and love
susan
the eXchanger

First let me say I agree with you 100%. That being said let me introduce the page which purports to debunk the Wingmakers to the N'th degree!

http://www.bielek-debunked.com/Wingmaker.html

Now I have read that page and its links. It reminds me of the 'case' against Billy Meier. Many others as well. The Warren Commission on Kennedy's assassination. Almost a 1000 pages on what Lee Harvey Oswald was proved to be the sole gunman. The 9/11 Commission with the 'proof' that the Trade center melted down from an airline strike, when there are movies of controlled demolition to bring down the Tower in its footprint. Need I go on?

The PTB can 'prove 'anything they wish . What is it, Roswell has 4 'official' versions over the years of what 'actually' happened out in the dessert? This 'case' that is expertly drawn that 'leaves no doubt' that Wingmakers is a 'fraud' leaves me cold. It seems a out of balance reaction to a 'fictional' presentation. The overkill of the 'rebuttal' sways me that indeed there is something there they wish to make disappear as they are upset its being divulged.

That, and my own internal knowing, that much truth resided in what James divulges. If you would hear him speak (.mp3's) are available on the site, you would hear a voice of such compassion and understanding that it begs the question if this person is from this planet! So powerful is his vibration. Even allowing that the rebuttal is Truth? does in no way invalidate the information contained in James's interview, which resonates highly in my own knowing. Much more so that what many of the 'whistleblowers' are sharing. Grand Portal, next stop!

[milk and honey]

Dear Milk and Honey, I respect your personal perspective of what I have written and quoted from the Wingmakers "official" website, however you fail to take into consideration that the materials presented are not meant to enhance or expand old perverted mythologies of the Hierarchal Religious quarter...designed for control.
It appears to me from what you've said here that you and James are continuing to "enhance and expand old perverted mythologies of the hierarchical religious quarter... designed for control."

The reason i say James perpetuates the misperception of the 'old' is simple:

Yes the false hierarchy hijacked and perverted the old spiritual teachings. That does not mean those teachings were perverted at their origin. The inner-Mind of the adepts are not perverted and is only concerned with awakening the inner-Mind of ourselves. You fail to understand or acknowledge the difference between the adepts' true teaching of valuable concepts (if understood as intended) and the false hierarchies' perversions of those same concepts. However, James does NOT fail to understand that difference. That's why, in reference to them, he concentrates your attention soley on the perversions... so that he can distort and deny their true origin and intent... their true meaning and value.

James is distorting all that in exactly the same way as the perverted controllers have always done. It allows him to summarily dismiss the value of the adepts and their work. Yet incongruously, he retains a respectful place for Jesus in his cosmology. Go figure.

they are written to awaken those sleepers who are lulled into complacency and apathy to question "Authorities", or to not comply with the HMS.

They were written to encourage individuals to follow their Hearts...and to manifest their full potential as heirs to godliness...found in their own DNA.
They're the same reasons why the adepts have written down their teachings over the ages (to the present hour) and why many individuals have already realised the sum of being and ascended. That means of course that they were not dependent on DNA upgrades. Our full potential can be realised in our spiritual identity.

James also denies spiritual Hierarchy. He is mistaken. We ourselves are the individual twigs and branches of the tree of life composed of myriad beings of greater and greater intelligence and power. We each have freewill and an equal opportunity to grow into all they are. That doesn't mean we all have equal attainment. In a universe of infinite growth, and opportunity for growth, some beings have greater attainment than others. The concept of 'Hierarchy' has been feared and loathed because of the perversions of that concept in the physical and astral planes. The false hierarchy who have dominated these strata have produced rebellion at the very prospect of 'Hierarchy' as a cosmic reality. But it is a cosmic reality.

Consequently, there is no such thing as 'equality'. We should serve to enable opportunity in the lives of others and in all our institutions of society. That's what the US Constitution was all about. But each will use their freewill as they see fit and grow or shrink as a consequence. If the concept of 'equality' is being pushed around we should ask ourselves who that serves. It does have a familiar ring to it. 1917 - 1991.

Just because YOU believe, that the materials were written or channeled, does not MAKE IT SO...
The materials were certainly written by James. We read them on the website and in his emails after all. The only question is their whether they originate beyond him. Then, 'where'.

[eraser2012]

I agree with those who say this is the best work Project Camelot has ever done. Bill & Kerry are truth seekers and information disseminators (my word, not in the dictionary :)), not preachers, editors or censors. The "fraud" suggestion you make is from disinformation by those attempting to discredit the site 10 or so years ago and have since been responded to by the site's original creator/owner and identified as frauds and disinfo.

The James interview not only resonated with me, it is my truth and how I now live in this world. It is challenging in the sense that it requires constant vigilance, but once you work at it a while, it becomes easier and easier until it eventually integrates with you. I am very much still in the process and expect that I will be until the grand portal opens or I move on from this world, so people should not adopt this paradigm for what it gives to a person, but instead for what that person gives to themselves and, thus, gives to humanity and all beings. What a wonderful time to be alive and in service to existence, and what an opportunity we all have before us to return to our higher selves and to truth. Who knows if the history elements of the James interview are accurate or not, but that is not important in my opinion. What is important is where we're heading individually and collectively into transparency and expansion.

Love to all of you and, therefore, love to me.

[pilot]

This discussion reminds me of something that happened about 8 or so years ago, I had read the Eckhart Tolle book and liked it and lent it to this friend of mine, ( a much older man) and a few weeks later I asked how he liked it.

He said it was good, it reminded him of Zen teachings...at that point I said "ah". If it is the truth, does it change? If it is the absolute, does it require an "upgrade"? That is my objection, if that is what you would call it, to the Wingmakers. The claim that effective spiritual teachings that have been around for centuries are suddenly outmoded because of a portal that appeared in 1998???

I find that a bit scary. I prefer to think of the absolute as absolute, not a fad. People have been repackaging ancient teachings for a long, long time-is this a bad thing? Not necessarily, however it is unseemly to invent another orthodoxy when none is needed while casting doubt on previous teachers.

Especially when they fail to reveal anything that is new. The human mind is incapable of grasping eternity. (Mine is, at least) There are many paths to follow that can help facilitate the experience of the absolute.

Why is Wingmakers better than any other?? Why??

[EarthBowl]

to by the site's original creator/owner and identified as frauds and disinfo.

The James interview not only resonated with me, it is my truth and how I now live in this world. It is challenging in the sense that it requires constant vigilance, but once you work at it a while, it becomes easier and easier until it eventually integrates with you. I am very much still in the process and expect that I will be until the grand portal opens or I move on from this world,


so people should not adopt this paradigm for what it gives to a person, but instead for what that person gives to themselves and, thus, gives to humanity and all beings. What a wonderful time to be alive and in service to existence, and what an opportunity we all have before us to return to our higher selves and to truth.

What is important is where we're heading individually and collectively into transparency and expansion.

.

Beautiful Eraser...........
Namaste

[371]

"Some facts can only be assimilated through fiction"- a member of this forum.

[efields]

"Some facts can only be assimilated through fiction"- a member of this forum.

Nuff Said Brother.

[houman]

The problem with these kinds of interviews ("I am above the matrix, I know what reality is, let me explain to you"... "I am a bloodline member, ask me questions...") is that they provide no references, no threads to follow, don't precisely explain why they are so sure about their "information/view of reality", so they don't go beyond the mental construction stage (=0 information content) and are often self contradictory...

Some jesuits are full time employed to do just that, elaborate a mental construction and add confusion to an already distorted information...

With these kind of declarations about reality the only viable method (that makes sense) is the one of Bob Monroe: "you have to experience it for yourself and here is a method for doing just that"

So in the end the interview contains the following essential element: "take responsability for yourself and what is happening to this world" but adds another "Theory Of Everything" and if I had to choose one I would choose the one of T Campbell (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxECb7zcQhQ) at least here you have a map, references (precise origin of the information, double blind validation...) and most importantly a method for checking it yourself...

Houman

[ENdJOY]

milk and honey, I can see that your mind is closed, having been filled with rhetoric...and busily comparing the Wingmaker Materials with all other "spiritual" teaching, you have failed to recognize how unique they are and there is no benefit for me (or anyone reading this) to try to reason with you...your are quite full of yourself.

It is obvious to me that James, nor any one individual could have written the materials...since he has no "followers" and no organization, it is hard for me to understand who you think he is getting help from. His integrity is beyond reproach.

I have watched this work slowly progress, one paper at a time, and seen how his vision was complete, before he launched the first website, and how each subsequent paper builds upon that foundation. He tells us that the LTO is measuring the frequency of the planet, and that new materials are released as our consciousness reaches a level that we can understand them...He obviously knows what the Big Picture is...and is trying not to knock us off balance with too much information at one time.


your opinions and belief system have no influence on my personal decision to activate my "junk" DNA (that were made dormant by the Anu) and to allow the perspectives of a Sovereign Integral to become my dominate reality...I only hope others are as independent as I am and will follow their hearts instead of the words of "externals".

I will continue to tear down the prison walls from the outside in. :original:

The entity model of expression is designed to explore new fields of vibration through biological instruments and transform through this process of discovery to a new level of understanding and expression as a Sovereign Integral. The Sovereign Integral is the fullest expression of the entity model within the time-space universes, and most closely exemplifies Source Intelligence's capabilities therein. It is also the natural state of existence of the entity that has transformed beyond the evolution/saviorship model of existence and has removed itself from the controlling aspects of the Hierarchy through the complete activation of its embedded Source Codes. This is the level of capability that was "seeded" within the entity model of expression when it was initially conceived by First Source. All entities within the time-space universes are in various stages of the transformational experience and each are destined to achieve the Sovereign Integral level as their Source Codes become fully activated.
http://www.wingmakers.com/philosophy1.html

[piers2210]

Amazing, unique, interview. Congrats to Project Camelot. It resonates with me. Where have i been all these years and not seen this stuff before?? Oh yeah, working for a big corporation. Anyway I've quit all that now to find myself.

But it will be hard to get your average member of the public to strip away centuries of religious and spiritual teachings to reach where James is at.

As he says though, it is one person at a time. Then i guess the rickety bridge can become a super highway.

I don't believe in religion, but the idea that the power is within and not coming from some higher universal source is freaky. But I'll go with it.

If you read between the lines of his interview, change is coming...get ready and you will be fine. I'll follow his message for sure.

[milk and honey]

milk and honey, I can see that your mind is closed, having been filled with rhetoric
If you dismiss things of value like James does you will never know if it's rhetoric or not. You'll never prove or disprove the value that can be found there. You're talking James' word at it's face... like everything else he says.

] ...and busily comparing the Wingmaker Materials with all other "spiritual" teaching, you have failed to recognize how unique they are and there is no benefit for me (or anyone reading this) to try to reason with you...your are quite full of yourself.
Even though i've illustrated where James got the gist of his schpiel you're still convinced the WMM is unique? James doesn't wan't you comparing it because you will discover for yourself what he has done. I put some of that in a nutshell for you and you call it rhetoric. It's time you compared the WMM with what has already been given. If you have done so already and still diss it then you've missed it.

Either you're still a teenager who understandably hasn't yet found the cornucopia of the ages - which has been distilled in the last two centuries - or you've been living in a shoe man. James claims the WMM is unique and he must know better. Look past the wrapper and you'll see it's not. You might also discern who his targets are (for demolition) and you may even percieve motive.

It is obvious to me that James, nor any one individual could have written the materials...since he has no "followers" and no organization, it is hard for me to understand who you think he is getting help from. His integrity is beyond reproach.
If he's not a lone nut then others are assisting him. It could very well be a group effort on the ground and/or the astral. There are clues suggesting who his connections may be. For example, he seems to think that a NWO is inevitable as an interim governing structure on the way to Utopia. He also has a penchant for euphemistic claptrap just like they do..

Check this:

Dr Neruda: According to prophecy that's when the United Nations will hold initial elections for a unified world government. And it won't be an all powerfull centralised authority but rather a global public policy decision and enforcement organisation for issues that effect the world at large. Issues like pollution, global warming, border disputes, space travel, trade, commerce, OLIN technology upgrades and general technology transfer programs. IN OTHER WORDS: IT WILL DECIDE AND ENFORCE ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING IT WANTS but "it won't be an all powerful centralised authority?". "No, i cross my heart, it will ONLY be a global public policy DECISION and ENFORCEMENT authority."

Lovely.

I have watched this work slowly progress, one paper at a time, and seen how his vision was complete, before he launched the first website, and how each subsequent paper builds upon that foundation.How would you know what he did before he launched the website. Only what he tells you.

He tells us that the LTO is measuring the frequency of the planet, and that new materials are released as our consciousness reaches a level that we can understand them...Yup, he's a mile ahead of us at all times.

He obviously knows what the Big Picture is...
Really.

...and is trying not to knock us off balance with too much information at one time. You don't say.

your opinions and belief system have no influence on my personal decision to activate my "junk" DNA (that were made dormant by the Anu)
Someday, you'll look back at this string of hypotheses and laugh at them.

...and to allow the perspectives of a Sovereign Integral to become my dominate reality...I only hope others are as independent as I am and will follow their hearts instead of the words of "externals". This reminds me of that scene in "Life of Brian" where he's yelling to the great throng... "You're individuals". And they reply in unison... "YES! WE'RE INDIVIDUALS!"

[Rebel4Life]

Yes, I always used this as a scale, but James isn't trying to sell anything ...


Really? whats with the products section in his website and the price tag?
I like how people try to sell you common information and people buy into it and throw them their wallet instead of thinking for themselves. :smoke:

[ENdJOY]

Really? whats with the products section in his website and the price tag?
I like how people try to sell you common information and people buy into it and throw them their wallet instead of thinking for themselves. :smoke:


actually you do not need to buy any of the products for sale in the website, you have all you need to manifest the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness, available within your SELF...it just helps to know what you are looking for, and the "tools" accelerate the process... ENJOY!

[ENdJOY]

Milk and Honey, as I said in the other WM topic....I find it amazing how self proclaimed "intellects" will go to great lengths to tell someone what something they have never experienced taste, smells, or feels LIKE ... when there is nothing LIKE the experience the genuine article provides.


"he who laughs last, laughs the longest", and I will be there laughing, when you finally come the realization, that what the WMs are offering is simply to brighten you path...it won't be long now :roll1:

All entities within the time-space universes are in various stages of the transformational experience and each are destined to achieve the Sovereign Integral level as their Source Codes become fully activated.

[milk and honey]

Milk and Honey, as I said in the other WM topic....I find it amazing how self proclaimed "intellects" will go to great lengths to tell someone what something they have never experienced taste, smells, or feels LIKE ... when there is nothing LIKE the experience the genuine article provides.

"he who laughs last, laughs the longest", and I will be there laughing, when you finally come the realization, that what the WMs are offering is simply to brighten you path...it won't be long now :roll1:
Your responses are verging on the robotic. There is no evidence of thinking. Just the repetition of slogans. It's like talking with a press secretary in a slick PR dept or psy-operation who has a brief to sell come what may. It is the surest sign of the dominance of "intellect" over the inner- Self.

I have experienced the "taste, smell and feel" of IT. That's why i can see straight through James and the stingmakers.

[dayzero]

Nice muddying of the waters attempt!

And nicely humorous to say that Wingmakers is "considered a fraud" [by whom exactly] and then back it up by a genuine well-known fraud, IE the 'famous' Protocols.

Then again, at least you spelt [uk spelling] disappointment correctly!


Now we just have to activate the Soul Integral from the cave within the cave within the cave within the cave within the cave within the etc etc

I've started my breathing exercises already.

[Josefine]

[/QUOTE]If you dismiss things of value like James does you will never know if it's rhetoric or not. You'll never prove or disprove the value that can be found there. You're talking James' word at it's face... like everything else he says.

Even though i've illustrated where James got the gist of his schpiel you're still convinced the WMM is unique? James doesn't wan't you comparing it because you will discover for yourself what he has done. I put some of that in a nutshell for you and you call it rhetoric. It's time you compared the WMM with what has already been given. If you have done so already and still diss it then you've missed it.

If he's not a lone nut then others are assisting him. It could very well be a group effort on the ground and/or the astral. There are clues suggesting who his connections may be. For example, he seems to think that a NWO is inevitable as an interim governing structure on the way to Utopia. He also has a penchant for euphemistic claptrap just like they do..

Check this:

IN OTHER WORDS: IT WILL DECIDE AND ENFORCE ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING IT WANTS[/B] but "it won't be an all powerful centralised authority?". "No, i cross my heart, it will ONLY be a global public policy DECISION and ENFORCEMENT authority."

Lovely.

How would you know what he did before he launched the website. Only what he tells you.



It will take time for me to go to all the weak/paradoxial/illogical spots in James's answers/essay. I have started with the one obvious, and to me, glaring, pronouncements on the history of the creation of, and the lack of value of, the human body and thus, our DNA. I have good links to back this up, but I hesitate to bring them in. I want to see how this develops.

Athough James mentions the ELOHIM, he does not breathe a word about them being Ultraterrestrials, high beings of non-locality. To suggest that they reside in our oceans with the Atlanteans that never left, is nothing but preposterous.

To state that all channeling is psy-ops is also illogical. If there are high beings of non-locality, and there most certainly are, they can, and do, communicate with us on a telephatic, for lack of a better word, level. So can other beings, including humans. To use discernment is a necessity, as with any type of communication. But if James is in league with NWO ideologists and policymakers, whose longexpected design is to declare all channeling illegal, they will have to grant someone the privilege of deciding what is 'allowable communication', no doubt allocated to a 'Truth Commission'. They might go all the hog and establish a centralized 'Information Corporation', a vision George H. Bush Sr talked about in the early 1990's. Anything emanating from such a construct will not be along the lines of a plurality of truth, quite the contrary, it will be based on the opinions of the few chosen and trusted to toe the official line of truth. In comparison 'Embedded Journalism' will pale as an example of the absence of independent research.

The value of James' interaction with us here on Avalon, is the opportunity for us to hone our ability to discern. Some have not developed that ability, and will be upset with any constructive feedback on his material, feeling it has to be accepted as a whole or rejected as a whole. These are never the only two options, there is always the 3rd corner, that of careful analysis.

I am VERY curious as to which corner Kerry is landing in regarding this material.

We are, in fact, not robotniks yet, regardless of what James is implying. Nice try.

[Rebel4Life]

actually you do not need to buy any of the products for sale in the website, you have all you need to manifest the Sovereign Integral state of consciousness, available within your SELF...it just helps to know what you are looking for, and the "tools" accelerate the process... ENJOY!

Endjay i still proved my point though when you said he isn't trying to sell anything. :smoke:

[ENdJOY]

Endjay i still proved my point though when you said he isn't trying to sell anything. :smoke:

you didn't prove anything...James is making these things available to you at cost...he isn't "selling" anything that you aren't asking for :naughty:

If you can not appreciate the fact that it cost money to maintain and create these websites, that you are using for free, then that is your problem.

[feeler]

JAMES isn't "selling" anything that you aren't asking for

Thank you for the clarification ENdJOY. I take that JAMES isn't "selling" anything that is free either.

-feeler

[Rebel4Life]

you didn't prove anything...James is making these things available to you at cost...he isn't "selling" anything that you aren't asking for :naughty:

If you can not appreciate the fact that it cost money to maintain and create these websites, that you are using for free, then that is your problem.

wow are you that blind? "he isn't selling anything" yet again you FAIL.

[ENdJOY]

Josefine, I appreciate you perspectives on the interview with James...I think it was fair...I do believe, however that you may have misunderstood what James said about RVing...he didn't say:

To state that all channeling is psy-ops is also illogical. If there are high beings of non-locality, and there most certainly are, they can, and do, communicate with us on a telephatic, for lack of a better word, level. So can other beings, including humans. To use discernment is a necessity, as with any type of communication.


what he did say was, that you never know (for sure) who you are channeling, and that the RVers were getting a very grainy picture, that came from a "timeless" dimension, therefore what they see was very much an "interpertation" of a vision...within the confines of the prison...his exact word are these:

Channeling was originally the equivalent of demon possession where interdimensional entities would temporarily infuse themselves within the human instrument and read a script prepared for them, usually an operative of the GSSC who was intent on bringing hope, love, truth, wisdom, and cosmological indoctrinations to humanity through the spiritual and, to a lesser extent, religious systems of the human family.

In more recent times channeling has become more automated, using pre-programmed scripts, voice tonalities, gestures, and accents which are implanted in the HMS of the individual channeler, and quite literally “broadcast” for later publication and dissemination among those who have a resonance to GSSC and seek enlightenment therein.

The channeled materials, owning to their extensive crafting, were cosmological wunderkinds that generated awe and near-instant faith in their readers. Works like The Urantia Book, Conversations with God, Seth, Agartha, Alice Bailey, and countless others were all prepared texts for humanity, written by dimensional entities under the direction of the GSSC and distributed for human consumption to ensure that humans remained satiated with division and deception – though under the guise of spiritual and cosmological truth.

If you carefully examine channeling you will see that it does not mention the Sovereign Integral, the silence that is you. They discuss the heavens, God, angelic beings, extraterrestrial intelligences, the service orientation of ascended being, ascension process of soul, morality, practical living, alignment to God, life after death, and the complex teacher-student ordering of the universe. It is all designed to instill separation and satisfy the seeker that truth exists on the material plane, thus, they do not have to leave the prison to find it; they simply need to read or listen with their mind.

Remote viewing is tapping into the unconscious or unified field of the Human Mind System. Within this field of consciousness remote viewers can access the astral imprint of Earth or any other planet or system in which the HMS extends – which is the entire known physical universe. The astral imprint is like a reflection in a grainy mirror. It lacks the texture and details, but the general picture exists. It is time sensitive, so sometimes, unbeknownst to the remote viewer, the subject is time shifted and the time shift can be thousands of years.

Remote Viewers also can be influenced by more subtle dimensional fields that are not physically manifest. Thus, sometimes their imagery is not of this world, though it seems of the physical, three-dimensional world, it is really of the astral or mental.

as to your suspicions about him working for the NWO...I think that is really a stretch of the imagination, and a bit unfair, when everything else he says points to freeing one's self from the prison...created by these control freaks. Also I think Kelly made her interests known in the "introduction" of the Interview.

[ENdJOY]

Your responses are verging on the robotic. There is no evidence of thinking. Just the repetition of slogans. It's like talking with a press secretary in a slick PR dept or psy-operation who has a brief to sell come what may. It is the surest sign of the dominance of "intellect" over the inner- Self.


I also find your responses "robotic" as if following an agenda to discredit James, for no apparent reason...if not that, then it must be a "savior complex" you are expressing, trying to "save" anyone from experiencing the Sovereign Integral's perspective for themself...which would abruptly displace you from your throne in the Hierarchy of the New World Order. (trust no one)

as I said before, fault finders are a dime a dozen...and as the Kabbalists say, "the faults you find in other are your OWN" :tongue2:

what are you offering as an alternative to finding the answers within yourself, as the WM's materials suggest? ... besides all of us just taking YOUR word for it? :naughty:

If you had seriously developed a Sovereign Integral's perspective, you would be expressing you appreciation for the assistance James is offering to help humanity free themselves.

[Jenny]

Mental conceptualization is never going to free us from our human mind system.
We feed that system, it exists by the grace of our sensory equipment; hearing, seeing, smelling, feeling and thinking.
This " debate" in this thread is proving that with every word we type here.

Go inside, breath the breath of life and KNOW who you really are and stop this senseless ( grinn) debate of who is right and who is wrong.

And I personally dont give a .../....how you label that Knowing.

The secret is only known by those who know this secret and those who do not know , well, you can't tell them because they did not do the inner work it requires.They are Just lazy people who feel fine with who they are now and who want to stay withing their comfort zone of the human mind system. And that is fine as well as I personally cannot do anything to get them off their lazy asses and do the work .......Breath................

How simple can it be???? Breath.......:wall::trumpet::sweatdrop:

:wub2:

http://www.suehutton.co.uk/sooznooz/images/lung-foundation-opt_copy1.jpg

[Josefine]

Mental conceptualization is never going to free us from our human mind system.
We feed that system, it exists by the grace of our sensory equipment; hearing, seeing, smelling, feeling and thinking.
This " debate" in this thread is proving that with every word we type here.

Go inside, breath the breath of life and KNOW who you really are and stop this senseless ( grinn) debate of who is right and who is wrong.

And I personally dont give a .../....how you label that Knowing.

The secret is only known by those who know this secret and those who do not know , well, you can't tell them because they did not do the inner work it requires.They are Just lazy people who feel fine with who they are now and who want to stay withing their comfort zone of the human mind system. And that is fine as well as I personally cannot do anything to get them off their lazy asses and do the work .......Breath................

[opt_copy1.jpg[/IMG]

Unless the idea is to make us all 'born-again Jamesonians' all the posts that are reactions to the interview with James are of great value. The debate proves that we are awake and kicking.
James graced us with words, mental conceptualizations, and whenever that happens, it requires a discerning response, with words. He refreshed the slate, and we may get rid of some staleness around the GSSC.

To say that 'the secret is only known by those who know the secret' :mfr_lol:
is almost funny, but circular reasoning is never really constructive.

The fact is that we ALL know the secret because the secret is a Truth living within. We just have to remember.

'Lazy asses' - we would have been if we had just said 'Halleluja'!

[Ashatav]

All my investigation about the Wingmakers point that this "revelation"


Pro New world order (read the second interview),


Jehoshua'ha Mechaich disminisher (luciferian doctrine)

and


New age (teosophy, who, in fact are luciferian to) are


a Fraud to


Make the people end accepting the New World Order New Religion.

That's because the people are so desesperately alone spiritualy in this so material world that they end


Believing Anything who smells well without the proper research.



Cheers.... ?

[iceasis]

Kerry's interview with James has certainly caused some controversy.

I have been reading responses from other websites.

This is one I find perplexing.

http://www.evpreversespeaking.com/2008/12/10/wingmakers-beautiful-deception/

Peggy Kane who runs the website concludes by saying that,

"I wish Project Camelot would do some RS before promoting James, Wingmakers and reptilian agendas disguised as Spiritual teachings. I wish everyone would listen to reverse speaking!"

Has anyone researched the authenticity of Peggy Kane's work and the technique known as reverse speech?

[milk and honey]

Kerry's interview with James has certainly caused some controversy.

I have been reading responses from other websites.

This is one I find perplexing.

http://www.evpreversespeaking.com/2008/12/10/wingmakers-beautiful-deception/

Peggy Kane who runs the website concludes by saying that,

"I wish Project Camelot would do some RS before promoting James, Wingmakers and reptilian agendas disguised as Spiritual teachings. I wish everyone would listen to reverse speaking!"

Has anyone researched the authenticity of Peggy Kane's work and the technique known as reverse speech?
I don't know if anyone can say for sure whether reverse speech analysis reveals truth.

But all you need do to see through the WMM is read it forwards. It's targets and it's crooked motives are evident from a good ol' fashioned - forwards - intuitive read.

[Josefine]

The biggest disappointment is you ROSEKAMINSKI

Only if we do not allow an open exchange, in my view. All that cannot see an open exchange as having great value, you might prefer the coziness of a sect.

We still have freedom of speech, and many of us find great enjoyment in seeing another's point of view, in religion, in spirituality, in science, in politics, and in Jamesonianism, as he does not want a predefined category. Again and again, this is what brings us forward as a species.

[Force4]

Er - not to be a firestarter but - but seriously, i read the Dr neruda stories and fun they were. I also started to readother parts of the site and it all is good reading.

BUT SERIOUSLY - God spirit soul complex... and all those not so hard to read but very hard to remember and also to putinto discussion.... i mean come on, without so much as clarifying the process but telling people the same storey which quite frankly other texts and people have said just reinforces that SOMETHING works. But for everyone who's said this had changed their lives etc.... Well i justdont know what to say except ask you whats changed, specifically?

Also to those who are saying "but your wroooong your just dont understand" or "your Sovereign Integral' self" - Seriously i dont have a problem with this but when you account for the fact that some of us are here because we just found this place whilst others have been doing their own practicing n teaching n learning and probably some are very potent in what they can do -------------------------> you could atleast make it somewhat understandable.

B4 anyone tells me to re-read it till tears come pouring out, :tears: its not so much a dissappointment but a travesty that he has a chance to explain and further expand upon what is already being published on his website. If he the 'James' which everyone talks about is serious about his work then at least make itso its easy to use and understand.

some of the breathing exercises he talks of features in the emerald tablets of thoth - once again you have to read for yourselves to find that out but there are translations online, but i have to say that whilst that is a translation of a tablet, james has the oppertunity to explain or deepen our understanding and all i hear is - omggggg it changed my life :mfr_omg: - as if it lends the whole episode more credance or acceptability.

But seriously - there are other texts out there and it seems that we all run around with concern of finding the truth and the light and all that other guff but if you look at what is being presented... it would seem the truth and what works could literally be written on a side of a matchbox which is the key to yourself. I've read many things but that interview was one of the tougher ones. :thumbdown:

So to the ones who have had their lives changed ----> so wosssup, whats new?

[Ashatav]

Er - not to be a firestarter but - but seriously, i read the Dr neruda stories and fun they were. I also started to readother parts of the site and it all is good reading.


My favorite part of the wingmakers's neruda interview is this:

Sarah: "I also read the memo that Dr. Sauthers [a colleague of Dr. Neruda] wrote about a global culture being an outcome of this technology from the WingMakers' sites. But how could these objects be used to build a global culture? It seems a little naive to me."

Dr. Neruda: "All I can tell you is that it's related to the Internet and a new communication technology that the WingMakers referred to as OLIN or the One Language Intelligent Network. If you read the glossary section that I left behind, you'll see it referenced there. The WingMakers seem to feel confident that the OLIN technology will help create the global culture through the Internet. This incidentally is consistent with prophecies that the Labyrinth Group was privy to dating as far back as 1,500 years ago. Of course the enabling technology wasn't called OLIN, but the notion of a global culture and unified governance has been predicted for many centuries."

Sarah: "This is what George Bush used to call the New World order isn't it?

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but there have been four other presidents who've acknowledged this concept."

Sarah: "What would make the world's people decide to unify under one governing body, or for that matter, create a global culture--whatever that means? I just can't envision it happening--not in my lifetime."

Dr. Neruda: "According to the WingMakers it will happen through the digital economy and then through the Internet's OLIN technology platform. And through this global network, entertainment and educational content will be globalized. This is the basis of a global culture with unified commerce, content, and communities. Once these pieces of the infrastructure are in place, then the need to govern this infrastructure will loom as the preeminent issue of the day. And the United Nations is the logical ruling body for such an endeavor. As long as the World's people allow the digitization of the economy and embrace the OLIN technology platform, a global government and culture is virtually assured to emerge."

Sarah: "And as you said last night, this is supposed to occur in 2018?"

Dr. Neruda: "According to prophecy, that's when the United Nations will hold initial elections for a unified world government. And it won't be an all powerful, centralized authority, but rather a global public policy decision and enforcement organization for issues that effect the world at large. Issues like pollution, global warming, border disputes, space travel, terrorism, trade, commerce, OLIN technology upgrades, and general technology transfer programs."

Sarah: "So what will happen to National sovereignty in this new role of the United Nations?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'm willing to answer your question in the form of a speculative response, but I'm also aware that you had asked me at the outset of this interview to remind you if you got off course. What would you like --"

Sarah: No, you're absolutely right. Sorry. Let's go back to the artifacts--what was the condition of the site when you first entered--or better still, why don't you just describe your first encounter going inside the site."

Cheers and judge by yourselve.

[milk and honey]

Is this a defense of the WMM specifically? Or is it your statement of principle regarding ALL discussion about metaphysical works? It uses James' jargon so perhaps it is the former.

Mental conceptualization is never going to free us from our human mind system. Not by itself, no.

We feed that system, it exists by the grace of our sensory equipment; hearing, seeing, smelling, feeling and thinking.
This " debate" in this thread is proving that with every word we type here.
Mental concepts are catalysts which can help free or bind the soul. Are you suggesting that expressing our thoughts to each other is a fruitless exercise? If so, James' email is just as profitless. Do you believe that the mind is fed only by the senses? It is true that a mind ignorant of the real-Self is just a sponge for external stimuli and egoic vanity. But the mind is also a vessel for the expression in matter of the real-Self. It too can concieve of mental concepts which can help free souls from the gravity of the ego. It can in-form the mind with the logic of the logos. Entering through the door of the mind, it separates the real from the unreal. The fruit of this enlightenment can be conceptualised and shared with others. It hints of the taste and fragrance of reality and truth. In fact a true adept can share even the experience if he/she so wills.

Your test is to discern the difference between the froth of the ego and the expression of the higher-Mind within yourself and in the conceptual outer world. The differences are often subtle. The real-Self can be assertive. The ego, falsely humble. With regard to the WMM it appears you believe you've passed that test (of discernment) and would like to silence everyone else.

Go inside, breath the breath of life and KNOW who you really are and stop this senseless ( grinn) debate of who is right and who is wrong.
Only those who accept the WMM and/or those who keep silence on it have "breathed the breath of life"?... and "KNOW who you are?"

At the center of each mind the real-Self sees and knows things as they are. It is real and therefore permanent or immortal. The outer egoic-mind has limited vision so it fails to know things as they are. It is unreal and therefore impermanent or mortal. Virtually everyone on Earth has both the inner-Mind and the outer-mind as described. Our test is to discern the difference -- to know the difference -- between the real and the unreal in our own mind and in the minds of others. This necessitates the free flow of ideas without which we cannot know each other. If we do not know each other we cannot live in society together because there must be basic agreements, for example, those expounded in the US Constitution of 1788.

From the free flow of ideas each mind has the opportunity to see the content of the mind of others which allows each to understand the whole. On that understanding alone, each can contribute to the formation of society's basic agreements, it's rights and responsibilities and it's institutions. Without knowing each other through free interaction how can we even agree on the basic societal foundation on which we need to evolve together? How could we agree on the basic values which we must share with all, in order to have private values which we need share only with some?

That is why the US Constitution is so great and why it is under attack.... even by James in the WMM.

It provides the basic agreements of society:

1) Freedom of Speech

2) Freedom of the Press

3) Freedom of Association

4) Freedom of Conscience in spiritual matters.

Do we still wan't these freedoms? Do we still agree? Obviously not and we had better percieve the serpentine logic of those who dissagree, because they are not open and honest in their implacable dissagreement with freedom, preferring instead to subtly subvert our innate spiritual sensibilities to gain our surrender to a supposed "superior" ethic of human equality and oneness, sans the US Constitution. The WMM is a part of this veiled opposition as are many, many others who stroke and tickle our spirits.

In our attempt to maintain the foundational agreements of society, are we only to concern ourselves with those who agree with us? And, in silence, ignore those who don't? If so we cannot know each other or the forces which act as an undertow to swallow up everything we value. If we are going to evolve together then we had better speak to each other especially when we dissagree. Freedom will not last long if we retreat in silence into our own convictions while the enemies of freedom are speaking, writing and acting as a rot in the foundation. Yes, the truth of spiritual-Selfhood is within but the CATALYSTS to it's discovery very often come from external information. I don't want to silence anyone and i don't wan't to be silenced. This is not merely a constitutional argument for freedom. It is a vision rooted in the same truth that birthed the principles found in that document.

And I personally dont give a .../....how you label that Knowing. Neither do i but James gives a damn and insists on his own labels as exclusive representations of exclusive new truths utterly unique to the WMM.

The secret is only known by those who know this secret and those who do not know , well, you can't tell them because they did not do the inner work it requires.They are Just lazy people who feel fine with who they are now and who want to stay withing their comfort zone of the human mind system. And that is fine as well as I personally cannot do anything to get them off their lazy asses and do the work .......Breath................

How simple can it be???? Breath.......:wall::trumpet::sweatdrop:
Not everyone who seeks the 'secret' is "just lazy... on their lazy asses". A lot of seekers sincerely make their best efforts to discern the real from the unreal. James exerts great personal effort (in his boasting of singularly unique and unprecedented personal powers and unique cosmic responsibilities) to cultivate an image of "one who knows". Among other things, it shows he doesn't know but because he projects that chutzpah, he attracts people with the same pride who have actually developed a psychological reliance on him. The lie is so big it's 'believable'.

[milk and honey]

Ashatav, would you mind changing the yellow text in your post above? I can read it at all. Maybe red would fix it?

Many thanks.

[milk and honey]

Thanks Ashatav. I wonder why dear "Dr Neruda" was so evasive?

[milk and honey]

Ashatav, the first reply from "Dr Neruda" is still in yellow text (after the word "YES"). Still can't see it. Thanks again.

[ENdJOY]

Ashatav, you are just going to have to suck it up, and grow up...the NWO is here...and there is nothing you can do about it...we are all ONE species, living on ONE planet...and if global comunication and enterprise is OK, why isn't a one world goverment...we have had the United Nations for decades now...doing a louzy job, I admit, but lets not throw the baby out with the bath water, we will never have Equality, without it... we wouldn't have outsourcing of jobs into sweat shops if the minimum wage was the same around the world...if we only had one global form of curency, we wouldn't have the Central Banks in control of everything...there are some advantages to it, if it is done right...and it is already a DONE DEAL...so adapt.

Lets not forget that Dr Neruda is a fictional character in a book based upon facts...and that James wasn't even born in America, and may not even be a US citizen...he just lives here now...he was not a scientist, he was an artist, musician, poet...and author...the Illuminati are not americans either, they come from European royal bloodlines...even though the Rothchilds, Rockerfellers and Bilderbergs meet here often they have no ties with nations...their only ties are to money... The African continent was not the only one raped and plundered...they did them all one right after another...and just look what they are doing to the USD now... give me a break...we are all their slaves.

[Jenny]

Is this a defense of the WMM specifically? Or is it your statement of principle regarding ALL discussion about metaphysical works? It uses James' jargon so perhaps it is the former.

Not by itself, no.


Mental concepts are catalysts which can help free or bind the soul. Are you suggesting that expressing our thoughts to each other is a fruitless exercise? If so, James' email is just as profitless. Do you believe that the mind is fed only by the senses? It is true that a mind ignorant of the real-Self is just a sponge for external stimuli and egoic vanity. But the mind is also a vessel for the expression in matter of the real-Self. It too can concieve of mental concepts which can help free souls from the gravity of the ego. It can in-form the mind with the logic of the logos. Entering through the door of the mind, it separates the real from the unreal. The fruit of this enlightenment can be conceptualised and shared with others. It hints of the taste and fragrance of reality and truth. In fact a true adept can share even the experience if he/she so wills.

Your test is to discern the difference between the froth of the ego and the expression of the higher-Mind within yourself and in the conceptual outer world. The differences are often subtle. The real-Self can be assertive. The ego, falsely humble. With regard to the WMM it appears you believe you've passed that test (of discernment) and would like to silence everyone else.


Only those who accept the WMM and/or those who keep silence on it have "breathed the breath of life"?... and "KNOW who you are?"

At the center of each mind the real-Self sees and knows things as they are. It is real and therefore permanent or immortal. The outer egoic-mind has limited vision so it fails to know things as they are. It is unreal and therefore impermanent or mortal. Virtually everyone on Earth has both the inner-Mind and the outer-mind as described. Our test is to discern the difference -- to know the difference -- between the real and the unreal in our own mind and in the minds of others. This necessitates the free flow of ideas without which we cannot know each other. If we do not know each other we cannot live in society together because there must be basic agreements, for example, those expounded in the US Constitution of 1788.

From the free flow of ideas each mind has the opportunity to see the content of the mind of others which allows each to understand the whole. On that understanding alone, each can contribute to the formation of society's basic agreements, it's rights and responsibilities and it's institutions. Without knowing each other through free interaction how can we even agree on the basic societal foundation on which we need to evolve together? How could we agree on the basic values which we must share with all, in order to have private values which we need share only with some?

That is why the US Constitution is so great and why it is under attack.... even by James in the WMM.

It provides the basic agreements of society:

1) Freedom of Speech

2) Freedom of the Press

3) Freedom of Association

4) Freedom of Conscience in spiritual matters.

Do we still wan't these freedoms? Do we still agree? Obviously not and we had better percieve the serpentine logic of those who dissagree, because they are not open and honest in their implacable dissagreement with freedom, preferring instead to subtly subvert our innate spiritual sensibilities to gain our surrender to a supposed "superior" ethic of human equality and oneness, sans the US Constitution. The WMM is a part of this veiled opposition as are many, many others who stroke and tickle our spirits.

In our attempt to maintain the foundational agreements of society, are we only to concern ourselves with those who agree with us? And, in silence, ignore those who don't? If so we cannot know each other or the forces which act as an undertow to swallow up everything we value. If we are going to evolve together then we had better speak to each other especially when we dissagree. Freedom will not last long if we retreat in silence into our own convictions while the enemies of freedom are speaking, writing and acting as a rot in the foundation. Yes, the truth of spiritual-Selfhood is within but the CATALYSTS to it's discovery very often come from external information. I don't want to silence anyone and i don't wan't to be silenced. This is not merely a constitutional argument for freedom. It is a vision rooted in the same truth that birthed the principles found in that document.

Neither do i but James gives a damn and insists on his own labels as exclusive representations of exclusive new truths utterly unique to the WMM.


Not everyone who seeks the 'secret' is "just lazy... on their lazy asses". A lot of seekers sincerely make their best efforts to discern the real from the unreal. James exerts great personal effort (in his boasting of singularly unique and unprecedented personal powers and unique cosmic responsibilities) to cultivate an image of "one who knows". Among other things, it shows he doesn't know but because he projects that chutzpah, he attracts people with the same pride who have actually developed a psychological reliance on him. The lie is so big it's 'believable'.


This is what I try to avoid, ripping a thought/feeling apart into little pieces and react to each separate part.

I hope you forgive me if I let this go.
I feel no movement of energy inside me that responds to this.
In other words; I feel no responsibility for your reactions.
In other words; It does not resonate with me.
In other words; your reactions stir a faint memory inside me of old worn out reactions I once had and no longer support.
In other words; You may fill in all you like and need or want, it is not out of oneness and therefore not appealing to me in any way.

So what Now!?
I ask myself...
what do you want Jenny?

I have no idea...isn't that dumb?:lol3:

[ENdJOY]

BINGO Jenny...I stopped even reading his posts a few days ago...all you need is a quick scan of the first line to know what he is going off on :lmao:

Dr. Neruda: "Proof is not absolute. It's not even objective. And what you're looking for is an experience that is permanent and perfect in its expression of truth. And such an experience, if it indeed exists, is not owned or possessed by any secret network or elitist organization or galactic federation for that matter.

"You could have this experience of absolute proof tomorrow, and the very next day, doubt would begin to creep in and in a matter of weeks or months this proof, or absolute truth, that you aspire to possess -- it would be just a memory. And probably not even a powerful memory because so much doubt would be infused into it.

"No, I can't give you or anyone absolute proof. I can only tell you what I know to be true for me and try to share it as accurately as I know how with anyone who's interested. I'm less interested in trying to relate the cosmology of the universe than I am in getting the story of the WingMakers and the artifacts of their time capsule into the public attention. The public should know about this story. It's a discovery of unparalleled importance and it should be shared." http://www.wingmakers.com/neruda1.html

[Jenny]

EndJoy,

http://tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:zKC5WtP_DK-rqM:http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3903/lmao2od9.jpg

Mind**** is what people get off on...heheheehehe

[ENdJOY]

:roll1: I can't believe you got that word to print...I had to disguise "A$$" in a previous post :roll1:

....http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:qaSAwFN3hpL9gM:http://news.filefront.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/foot-in-mouth-1199.jpeg

[Jenny]

I am the Wonderful, I am the Magnificent.....:tongue2::roll1:

Mind****...the word is not just **** but mind****...

now you try to find a word .....:wub2: