Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Plejaren
Hey Bill and Kerry I am really into your forum lately as you may have noticed! The people here are just interesting to interact with you attract interesting people i don't mean to be a pain.
This thread is a big task to try and make a dent in it while you have spare time is admirable and so is the willingness to clarify and listen to others all the time you guys are open minded and have a good sense of balance I respect that and think you guys are genuine but I have two major issues.
two questions to throw out here to you since you are offering.
1) How do you feel about someone that does not consider themself a guest on this forum or that it is private property and who does not agree to bind themself with certain written agreements over self leadership critical thinking and self responsibility. Do you think that it's unethical to dismiss the need for using rules or guidelines as a sort of crutch in which people use to point to why they made their decisions. Such as moderator conduct and such as users referring to conduct of others and themself.
2) Are you guys upset or do you reject anyone that decides your whistleblowers are likely traitors and or not worthy of attention or completely trustworthy that can possibly manipulate and who sees the entire means of getting this information immoral, unneeded and in most causes trivial information that is very much speculative. Do you reject the contributions of anyone that sees this secrecy as invalid to creating communities and a culture of freedom and wisdom that is needed in the changing times ahead.
I did my best to try and express what I meant. These are my main two issues that is all. Thanks guys.
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If you do think we are genuine - and you may be telling the truth - you have to stop playing both sides of the fence. It's a matter of integrity.
Some people watching your posts here and elsewhere will know what I mean. I'm sure you do, too. Make up your mind who we are, and then stand behind that. Don't blow with the wind. It makes you look weak.
If I've understood your question properly (and do come back to me here if I have not answered your question, rather than criticising me elsewhere): we regard this forum as our own house. It's our party, but we've sort of thrown it open to everyone on the street.
We thought a few hundred people might come along, but instead we had over five thousand. We never had enough beer or chips for everyone, and not enough room for everyone to talk quietly and have a good time. So things got crowded and out of hand.
Not only that, but quite a lot of people have wandered in who do not seem to know us, and some of those people (as with any party) are just out to have fun, break things, or cause trouble.
If that happened in your house, with a real party, you'd probably want those people to leave. If you made it clear that they were unwelcome and yet they still stayed and continued to abuse you and the other guests, you'd probably escort them to the door and then lock them out.
This forum is not a public place. It's our house. So we're offended when people come in here and abuse us or the other guests. It's as simple as that. It's not really a matter of "rules". It's not a school, or an office building. It's a matter of what you'd want going on in your house.
This is why some people have been asked to leave, or have left of their own accord (and some mods, too). They have realized that the party is not one they enjoy, or where they were welcome.
Our advice to them is to go find another party and have a good time there.
The role of the moderators is to help us throw a good party. Everyone has been trying hard to help. No-one gets paid, they work long hours, and they do it not for themselves but for the other party-goers. Sometimes they've made mistakes (because they are human) - and some of them have left because they didn't enjoy the party themselves any more. All that is fine and to be expected.
There's no reason for conflict, no reason for personal criticism, no reason to behave badly. It's just a party, and we'd like it to be a good one.
So help make it a good party if you like. If you're bored or you don't like the music, then go to another one... there are plenty around.
I'm not sure that I understood your whistleblower question. If you're talking about Mary Lou's reporting of Henry Deacon to the FBI, this was an unacceptable breach of moderator trust. Think about it.
If a whistleblower came to us and thought that they might be under any circumstances handed over to the authorities, do you think anyone would ever talk to us again? Probably not. Thankfully, Mary Lou did not know any of Henry Deacon's personal details at all. We keep things compartmentalized too, just as the agencies do, and we know how to keep important things confidential. And that was why.
Not only that, but Mary Lou did not understand any of the Henry Deacon background, and did not realize that he did not know what he was working on until the morning of 9/11, that he was horrified when he was briefed, and that he contemplated sabotaging the project from the inside (but did not, and he suffers for that).
None of that Mary Lou understood or had read on the Camelot site, where it had been for over a year. We asked her to leave, and we published all the correspondence transparently on another thread so that there could be no misunderstanding about what had happened.
It's our duty to protect any whistleblower who comes forward. This is our senior responsibility. Anyone who does not stand with us on that should not be on our own team.
[to be continued]