Concerns Members Have About Enforcement of Forum Rules

[Seashore]

Okay I asked for a discussion and I got it!

Thank you.

I feel that a lot of the problem with trolls has been more the members' responses to the trolls than it has been the trolls' posts themselves!

[waitinginthewings]

Originally Posted by Seashore

Okay I asked for a discussion and I got it!

Thank you.

I feel that a lot of the problem with trolls has been more the members' responses to the trolls than it has been the trolls' posts themselves!

Seashore: the troll posts baiting questions, & a member who is not yet aware of the game being played, will answer the trolls question nicely, respectfully, and another baiting question comes back in return......so this is how it begins, the purpose being to stir conflict, disrupt, frustrate the members posting. How is that the good members problem. I think it is necessary to place the blame fairly where it belongs and not deflect it onto the good members here.

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by waitinginthewings

a member who is not yet aware of the game being played, will answer the trolls question nicely, respectfully, and another baiting question comes back in return......

I feel that this is part of the learning process for new people. This is the school of hard knocks. The real world. People will learn the hard way - the best way.

Also, we can help each other out with private messages.

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by Seashore

I feel that this is part of the learning process for new people. This is the school of hard knocks. The real world. People will learn the hard way - the best way.

Also, we can help each other out with private messages.

Old memebers fall for that too....

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by burgundia

Old memebers fall for that too....

Old members can learn new tricks!

[metaw3]

I've been founder, and/or mod, and/or admin of a number of forums. Except for one, they were much smaller than this one and I can guarantee you that without mods this forum cannot survive. The main problem is its popularity AND it's free for posting. The little fee to post was the best moderation. When you put down money, you value what you do. There's no better moderation. Now that it's free, you get people posting who don't give a **** about the forum because they didn't work (put money) for using it. So based on my past experiences I think that right now is a critical moment for the survival of this forum. It will obviously won't go back to paid subscriptions and its popularity will increase with more careless posters everyday. My advice to the leading team is to take the ATS forums as an example. This is the best example I've seen on the net of a forum who managed to survive its popularity. I think if each mod here gets an account on ATS and start using their forums, you will get the feeling of what Avalon could be if it managed to survive its popularity and gratuity. BTW, I'm not an ATS member and I assumed it is free for posting. Correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, check their TOS and get a feel of what it is to be a new member there. I'm sure it will help to figure moderation and rules here.

[Zeddo]

Originally Posted by metaw3

I can guarantee you that without mods this forum cannot survive.
The main problem is its popularity AND it's free for posting.
The little fee to post was the best moderation. When you put down money, you value what you do.

Thank you Metaw, this is exactly what I was going to say...the sooner we have a fee applied again, the better.
Personally, I need to question why the sub was removed, and I feel it was more than just plain benevolence.

Z

[burgundia]

Originally Posted by Zeddo

Personally, I need to question why the sub was removed, and I feel it was more than just plain benevolence.

Z

[Stargazer1965]

Hmm...how do I write this??

Aren't we the ones that go on about upsetting the status quo??

Aren't we supposedly the enlightened??

Why should leading questions bother us....or maybe we should question ourselves more often??

Maybe someone swimming against the current is a good thing and our emotional responses are what make us human....and they may be our downfall.

Maybe we need to redefine TROLL

It seems to be hedging toward ...DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE REST OF US

When it should be just a plain ole abusive person.

I feel like a psych student now....Later Gators

[Anchor]

The problem with characterizing anyone as a TROLL is that it is immediately prejudicial.

We banned a lot of people recently. When we were subscription there were very few actions against members. The forum is a free for all and we cannot rely on more than several thousand members to simply "ignore". That would be naive (ideal I agree). A lot of members always think they can do better than the moderators we get endless posts telling us how to do our work. Some of it is useful, some of it make me cringe.

Some people come here to learn - others come to make fun at our expense.

The moderators are damned if they do and damned if they dont. We tried to increase the numbers of moderators, mainly to increase coverage, but also to avoid charges of "tyranny" - we try to avoid bans without internal debate. Sometimes it isnt possible.

There is no way we can do our jobs without the ability to eject people intent of working against the mission of the forum.

Note people are not ejected because they are disruptive -we need disruptive people. The new ideas and input I have seen here since the subscription requirement was lifted is fantastic. The staus quo was getting old. The new stuff is fantastic.

It comes at a price. Enforcement is sometimes needed.

Most people are banned/ejected ultimately because it is obvious that they are intent on causing harm to what avalon and camelot are supposed to be: respectful discussion forums.

It is not about censorship - but I would say that, and I remember warning all the moderators that when we ban or remove posts that is what we get accused of. Goes with the turf. Cant do anything about it.

If the moderators cease to act to keep the forum on track - then I am pretty sure the forum will slowly become useless and all the remaining people that were tenacious enough to stick with it would eventually leave.

A..

[Majorion]

Have to admit, sometimes I reply to trolls in the hope of changing their minds. It's obvious when they are being provocative, but nevertheless.

These people don't perceive themselves trolls, they think they are doing justice of some sort, but perhaps if it can be established (with them) that they are doing something wrong, and I know it's a long shot with some people, but if you can actually get someone to understand from another perspective, you might hit the jackpot.

Easier said than done, I know.

With some people there is no negotiation, no debate, no room for any opinion sharing, and it becomes evident very quickly. If a pertinent query is not even acknowledged, well there you go!

[New Age Messiah]

Respectful adult conversation is boring, to me anyway.

Very few people are respectable, so it's kinda dishonest to pretend to respect them.

Put it this way, to respect what they say, no matter how silly or petty or wrong or WHATEVER, it is, is dishonest.

[Brian En]

I have no idea who the trolls are here, so I have to rely on the mods to moderate the boards. I like that these boards are here for me to learn from youse that have been at this a lot longer than I have. I'm all for tossing out the trolls, they do little for the fuctionality of any board. I used to be a member of another board that was totally overrun by an invasion of trolls that attracted even more trolls which led to the deletion of that board.

[New Age Messiah]

Originally Posted by Brian En

I'm all for tossing out the trolls, they do little for the fuctionality of any board.

I think the OP was trying to address regular posters who are drawn to the site for the right reasons, and then personality things or whatever come up, and then it's "forum rules".

All subjective rules can be perverted or misused depending on "who" someone is or whatever. There are always clique type forces and emotional bonding and groupthink type things, that cause some people to be protected and others to be rejected.

[Brian En]

The trolls I'm referring to the ones that come here for the sole reason to cause trouble. As for everything else, that's up to the people involved. If they can't come to a resolution then maybe a mod should step in. We're adults who agreed to the forum rules. We may not agree to the rules, but by clicking that submit button we have agreed to follow the rules.


I'll know more if and when I get into a dispute here.

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Brian En

I'll know more if and when I get into a dispute here.

Uh-oh.... but you are from Canada - so at least you'll be nice about it

[Brian En]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Uh-oh.... but you are from Canada - so at least you'll be nice about it

Yah. I'm always nice during disputes. It's the Canadian curse.

[Seashore]

TtC published a private message from BROOK on a thread, did he not? What happened there?

[Anchor]

Seashore - I remember that. Brook actually made some comment about it at the time.

The issue was not pressed.

The forum's treatment of Ttc - another dark episode of our history. Within two or three posts he was accused outright of trying to start a cult.

A..

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by Anchor

Seashore - I remember that. Brook actually made some comment about it at the time.

The issue was not pressed.

The forum's treatment of Ttc - another dark episode of our history. Within two or three posts he was accused outright of trying to start a cult.

A..

My point in raising the issue is to open a discussion of banning francie for posting an email but not banning TtC for posting a private message. Not that I want TtC banned. That's not the point either!

What about the fact that TtC posted a private message on a thread - which is grounds for banning - not banning him - but banning francie? What's the rationale?

[Anchor]

Seashore,

the moderators are not consistent. You can work hard at prooving that but you dont need to, I will admit it right up front.

What we do, is try our best.

What's the rationale? Probably context and what was disclosed and what else was happening at the time.

A..

[Seashore]

Originally Posted by Anchor

What's the rationale? Probably context and what was disclosed and what else was happening at the time.

My response to your answer is to say that the context of the banning of francie was not just, and she should be re-instated.

[Luana]

What was disclosed was the Truth. It's really time to let this rest and allow Francie back.
Please

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by Luana

What was disclosed was the Truth.

So what?

I am sure there are lots of private messages that contain "truth".

I get told the truth a lot in private messages. I just had quite a lot of that today - unpleasant truths. I won't be making any of this truth public just because its the truth.

The system we operate in deserves us to respect that PRIVATE MESSAGES are private unless permission is given to make it public.

A..

[tacodog]

Originally Posted by Seashore

My response to your answer is to say that the context of the banning of francie was not just, and she should be re-instated.

I know the Mods are overworked and under appreciated, but I have to agree with Seashore on this one. Truth and disclosure comes in a variety of ways...if it didn't, there wouldn't be any.