New Wilcock Interview

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

Who do I think are giving honest efforts even though I may not agree with them on all points? Richard Dolan, Stanton Friedman, David Jacobs, Karla Turner, John Mack, Jacques Vallee ...and there are many others.

Sounds like quite the elite group there, but other than selling books, attending conferences, doing interviews, and "scrutinizing" others in the same field, there is nothing that differentiates these people from the same argument you're making against the others like Wilcock, Greer, etc...

Matter of fact, if anyone is a disinfo agent, it could easily be argued and counter pointed that those same set of characters you mentioned above are the actual agents. Most or all of them have worked for the government, Friedman openly gloats about the number of places he's worked on classified projects, Vallee was involved with DARPA, Jacobs is a Uni-folk man pushing the 'alien threat' agenda with research only into any cases that involve a 'threatening' experience, and Dolan; while I think hes great and his book National Security State vol.1 is most certainly noteworthy, he himself has also been involved with Camelot and aligned with the same people you implicate are pushing disinformation.

Let me just say that I fully understand your appeal to credibility and totally relate, but there are two sides to every coin, and there isn't a post on the world wide web that can simplify and generalize the complex issues we face and continue to face on the ufology front. Not even ufowatchdog, who seem to think the world operates only in black or white.

My opinion is there has been evidence for multiple phenomena within the framework of 'ufos', the problem is every person wants his/her 'one explanation' for the entire phenomenon to be the right one. Vallee and Hynek explain it as interdimensional, Friedman is a classic Roswell proponent/greys-occupy-saucers from zeti reticuli, and then you have the Hopkins and similar mindsets focusing only on abductions. I'm no fan of Dan Burisch and never have been, but what makes his time-traveler explanation any less plausible than those with other theories.

Even the people who seem to possess the most honesty and credibility can hardly agree on anything, does that mean some or all of them are disinfo agents.

One thing I do agree with you, is a lot of people are indeed seeking attention, their fifteen minutes of fame, and they do want to make money off this, there a lot of deluded people and I am in no way denying 'that part' of what you're saying. But strictly in the context disinformation, Vallee or Friedman could easily be disinformation, and keep in mind that good people are often compromised, I happen to think this was the case with Greer after his disclosure project didn't quite make the headlines he was hoping for, and then he got older and started to think of just himself.

[Stargazer1965]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Even the people who seem to possess the most honesty and credibility can hardly agree on anything, does that mean some or all of them are disinfo agents.

One thing I do agree with you, is a lot of people are indeed seeking attention, their fifteen minutes of fame, and they do want to make money off this, there a lot of deluded people and I am in no way denying 'that part' of what you're saying.

Great post Majorion!!

I have a question for everyone:

When the EGO is involved...what does honesty and credibility have to do with anything??

We are all human and warped by the white hot spotlight....Peace

[Reader]

Right on Trainedobserver, your telling it like is!

Personally, I like guys like Colin Andrews, Patrick Heron, Tom Horn
Lloyd Pie, WB Stewart and others, who actually do their own research

[aroundthetable]

You cant write a song thats never been sung

[mntruthseeker]

Originally Posted by aroundthetable

You cant write a song thats never been sung

Excellent point that really hits home on this thread.

[Kinsuemei2]

My story is unbelievable, but I experienced it so have others around me, anybody who thinks its bogus can kiss my ass as I don't really care, I don't believe a word DW says as he packaged all his info in the same way for the 2000 ascension that never came, so now he is simply re doing the same **** he was marketing ten years ago, the rest are interesting but unless I experience what they do, we shall have to wait and see, one fact I do know is that if you are privy to top secret information the government will kill you if you try to go public with it, Project Camelot having the info or part of it does not make you safe in anyway.
I recently lost Dr Heather JJ Anderson and her story will now not get out as people around her and who have helped her are legitimately dead, not in "Another Realm" as Kerry Cassidey has asked me about and her info did exist as I was also grilled over, I wonder if she ever did grill DW about that RA ****
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ggAPY5LpE

need I say more? I am with trained Observer on this one, yeah I had a reptilian encounter but at the end of the day, I don't expect a single dam one of you to believe it and I really couldn't give a dam about it anymore.

[aroundthetable]

Sorry for your loss kinsuimui.

You write with a passion which makes me want to know more about your reptilian encounter, im sure im not the only one.

But as you can see above, if you raise your head it can get ripped off and kicked around like a football, and im not talking about reptilians!

It is no suprise that many subjects mentioned here by their nature will and should create debate.

Wishing you well

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Kinsuemei2

... I don't believe a word DW says as he packaged all his info in the same way for the 2000 ascension that never came, so now he is simply re doing the same **** he was marketing ten years ago, ...

This is the inevitable pattern with these types of folks. The predictions of these types of cult figures never pan out. They may loose a few followers because of it but they invariably rewrite their B.S. and do it all over again. Quite often their followers forgive them or believe their inane reasons for their predictions failure.

...one fact I do know is that if you are privy to top secret information the government will kill you if you try to go public with it, ...

Well you'd think they would silence the informant in some manner. Death or imprisonment work but it does appear that another approach is being used. I think they are dosing people or doing something else to them. Take for example David Shayle or the bizarre behavior of Steven Greer.

I recently lost Dr Heather JJ Anderson and her story will now not get out as people around her and who have helped her are legitimately dead,

.

I am unable to find anything on her. Can you give me some references or more information that might allow me to get more of her story?

yeah I had a reptilian encounter but at the end of the day, I don't expect a single dam one of you to believe it and I really couldn't give a dam about it anymore.

Have you posted the details to your encounter? I'd like to hear more about it.

Listening to DW babble on as "RA" would be really amusing if I weren't thinking of the poor souls who have believed his goofy nonsense.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Reader

Right on Trainedobserver, your telling it like is!

Personally, I like guys like Colin Andrews, Patrick Heron, Tom Horn
Lloyd Pie, WB Stewart and others, who actually do their own research

Woah! Hello Raleigh! I used to live there and worked for the defunked Data General down in Cary.

[trainedobserver]

Sounds like quite the elite group there, but other than selling books, attending conferences, doing interviews, and "scrutinizing" others in the same field, there is nothing that differentiates these people from the same argument you're making against the others like Wilcock, Greer, etc...

I'd have to question how familiar you actually are with those people's work, Richard Dolan in particular. Have you read his two books? If there were only two books on the UFO phenomena you ever read, they would be the ones to read. The guy does actual research.

Matter of fact, if anyone is a disinfo agent, it could easily be argued and counter pointed that those same set of characters you mentioned above are the actual agents. Most or all of them have worked for the government, Friedman openly gloats about the number of places he's worked on classified projects, Vallee was involved with DARPA, ...

You would undoubtedly suspect that I am a agent from my background. I certainly am not nor do I think those men are. They seldom make claims that they cannot back up with copious notes, references, and actual hands on research. However, this gets back to something I said earlier. It seems the truth about the phenomena is so bizarre, terrible, or strange that those who are let in on it may change their opinions on disclosure and may actually agree to contribute to its obfuscation for purely moral reasons. So it is possible a serious researcher could acquire information that changes his mode from one of exposure to protection. I don't think that is the case here however but I could be wrong. (I was once wrong in 1976 for several minutes so I know it is possible JOKE ... that was a JOKE) I fully recognize my ability to be completely mistaken.

Jacobs is a Uni-folk man pushing the 'alien threat' agenda with research only into any cases that involve a 'threatening' experience,

I think Jacob's just reports what is coming to him. His conclusions are logical based on the data he is getting.

and Dolan; while I think hes great and his book National Security State vol.1 is most certainly noteworthy, he himself has also been involved with Camelot and aligned with the same people you implicate are pushing disinformation.

I was a bit taken back by this also initially until I heard his explanation. Dolan has stated he will talk to anyone, anywhere, to promote the sales of his books. While some people will look down their nose at him for this he is just doing good business by getting his books out there in the demographic that would be interested in them. Promoting books is just another part of writing books unless you are a trust-fund baby or something. Dolan is a voice of reason.

My opinion is there has been evidence for multiple phenomena within the framework of 'ufos', the problem is every person wants his/her 'one explanation' for the entire phenomenon to be the right one. Vallee and Hynek explain it as interdimensional, Friedman is a classic Roswell proponent/greys-occupy-saucers from zeti reticuli, and then you have the Hopkins and similar mindsets focusing only on abductions.

I think if you'll examine what these guys actually say is they all confess to not being entirely sure about the origins of the phenomena themselves. The major line of demarcation appears to be between folks who think they are nuts and bolts machines and those who think they are living beings themselves. Certainly anyone studying the phenomena for any length of time will recognize and understand that it is not monolithic.

I'm no fan of Dan Burisch and never have been, but what makes his time-traveler explanation any less plausible than those with other theories.

I love to hate Dan Burisch like I love to hate a good movie villain. He is simultaneously comical and dastardly. For years now he has proposed the most ridiculous and amateurishly presented stories as his real experience. The story has evolved and changed so many times and each new chapter is more goofy than the previous one. His new wife posted some rather scary and particularly revealing videos as a message to his former wife on her youtube channel. I think if you listen to those you'll get a real good feeling for the mental atmosphere surrounding those two. I would love for someone to do some investigative work and film Dan and Marcie at their regular jobs and post them. It would be interesting to see what their real jobs are don't you think? My point being these are confidence operators. The man's most audacious lie has to be that he would be part of MJ-12. Just look at the list of accomplished individuals on the 'alleged' list and then carefully consider if Burisch is in their league. It is absolutely hilarious that this former parole officer would in any way qualify to be in that company of people.

Even the people who seem to possess the most honesty and credibility can hardly agree on anything, does that mean some or all of them are disinfo agents.

Well if they are lying about who they are and what they have done then they are simply liars. Burisch, IMHO, is just an opportunistic liar. He is running the 'paranormal' con-game. It could have been anything he just choose that scam.

But strictly in the context disinformation, Vallee or Friedman could easily be disinformation, and keep in mind that good people are often compromised, I happen to think this was the case with Greer after his disclosure project didn't quite make the headlines he was hoping for, and then he got older and started to think of just himself.

Just what would Vallee and Friedman be saying that is 'disinformation'? Just a couple of talking points would do. Have you read Vallee's books? I have. He is very non-committal about the whole thing. Yes, he has an opinion based on years of real research. But he would tell you it is just that, his opinion.

I think Greer was enchanted and enticed by the 'woo-woo' side of things much like Gilliand. He may have been bought, brainwashed, or just deceived I do not know but something happened to that guy. Time will tell.

When looking at any of these people you have to ask the basic questions. Who are they? (How many times have they changed their names?)
What is their background? Do they have the qualifications to make the statements they are making? What is their educational background? Are they lying about themselves or their experience?

[Majorion]

Originally Posted by trainedobserver

I'd have to question how familiar you actually are with those people's work, Richard Dolan in particular. Have you read his two books? If there were only two books on the UFO phenomena you ever read, they would be the ones to read. The guy does actual research.

I am very familiar with the research done by Dolan, Friedman, and Vallee. I admit that I never got to vol.2 of security state, but a friend loaned me vol.1 and I got the jist of it before he snatched it off me again. Vallee, I read one of his books long ago, Messengers of Deception. And Friedman has done some good research on Majestic and a lot of other cross correlating documents, at least before he came out with Flying Saucers and Science which was not really his best work, simply put he is the strongest proponent of the Betty and Barney Hill case and 'the father of Roswell', no shortage of targets he's had either, he jumped on Bob Lazar and the late Col. Corso and who knows else, check his website, its all on the front page.

You would undoubtedly suspect that I am a agent from my background.

I don't know what you're background is and I do not presume to know who you are in real life, but your posts often reflect dissent, which IMO is a very suspicious trait. But no, do I think you're a disinfo agent trainedobserver? no absolutely not.

I certainly am not nor do I think those men are. They seldom make claims that they cannot back up with copious notes, references, and actual hands on research.

This is to maintain the illusion of credibility in a field already filled with deluded minds where the competition can be about honesty and authority. Most people who side with Friedman and those types are often appealing to authority.

I think Jacob's just reports what is coming to him. His conclusions are logical based on the data he is getting.

His conclusions are far from logical, I'm surprised you're not writing a whole essay critique of the guy.

Dolan is a voice of reason.

A voice of reason among the many charlatans.

I love to hate Dan Burisch like I love to hate a good movie villain. He is simultaneously comical and dastardly. For years now he has proposed the most ridiculous and amateurishly presented stories as his real experience. The story has evolved and changed so many times and each new chapter is more goofy than the previous one

Was only pointing out, that despite his extremely questionable and often ridiculous character, his explanation about ufos representing time travellers could ultimately be just as plausible as any of the other theories, again, despite his character. This is a very important point I want to stress.

Just what would Vallee and Friedman be saying that is 'disinformation'?

In this hypothetical context, neither need say anything dishonest or fraudulent to be a disinformation agent, only to be a major figure and with tremendous influence within the ufo circles. If somebody has enough influence within a community, and widely perceived as a 'voice of reason', then you can understand how easy it would be to direct the masses in any given direction or agenda. Again, nobody has to tell even one lie for an agenda to be carried out, and in this case, God knows how many charlatans there are in ufology, this makes the job so incredibly easy.

The fact that so many trust Friedman so wholeheartedly without ever questioning his motives, is enough to conclude something suspicious.

I think Greer was enchanted and enticed by the 'woo-woo' side of things much like Gilliand. He may have been bought, brainwashed, or just deceived I do not know but something happened to that guy. Time will tell.

For the record, I am 'big time' opposed to Greer as an 'individual', but his Disclosure Project was/is/remains bigger and a better accomplishment than any other figure in all of ufology. Everybody else, in comparison, is just selling an opinion or a book or a documentary.

When looking at any of these people you have to ask the basic questions. Who are they? (How many times have they changed their names?)
What is their background? Do they have the qualifications to make the statements they are making? What is their educational background? Are they lying about themselves or their experience?

Its very easy to pick out the obvious charlatans, but when we're talking about Vallee and Friedman, I never hear or see skeptics looking into their backgrounds, never. I would like to see the same measures applied to every figure in ufology, and I would like to see their motives questioned just as rigorously.

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Majorion

I don't know what you're background is and I do not presume to know who you are in real life, but your posts often reflect dissent, which IMO is a very suspicious trait. But no, do I think you're a disinfo agent trainedobserver? no absolutely not.

Now I find that extremely funny. You find dissent, and by that I think you are talking about my skepticism, suspicious? If you are into this subject and you do not maintain a healthy skepticism you're subject to believe any and everything without a lot critical analysis. Skepticism is a valuable tool in the search for truth.

This is to maintain the illusion of credibility in a field already filled with deluded minds where the competition can be about honesty and authority. Most people who side with Friedman and those types are often appealing to authority.

Friedman is an educated man who investigates and documents what he is doing. I really cannot argue with that. But there again, if you have heard Friedman speak once you've pretty much heard all he has to say.

His conclusions are far from logical, I'm surprised you're not writing a whole essay critique of the guy.

Maybe you could elaborate on that point a bit. How do you find his conclusions illogical? His conclusions, if I am not mistaken, are that there is a long-standing program or experiment being performed using the human race as biological resource material. This pretty much fits with the rest of the abduction research. Personally ...I do not know and do not understand how we could possibly "know" whether this is the truth. I think the evidence supports that notion that the aliens (or whoever they are) don't really feel a overwhelming need to tell us the truth about who they are, where they are from, or what they are actually doing here.

The fact remains that there are those out there honestly seeking the truth about the phenomena and there are those who plainly are not for whatever reason.

One other thing, you do know of course that Bursich is not the originator of the time travel scenario and that he, like Wilcock, takes bits from the overall 'buzz' and applies it to his storyline. I personally don't put a lot of weight into time travel stories for the common reasons most people give. It seems more likely to me that we are dealing with non-human and human species that come from other planets (if these planets exist in other dimensions seems a moot point to me) who appear to have long established bases of operation on this planet. I don't know for sure and have accepted the fact that I probably never will.

[Peace of mind]

I never heard of Wilcock before visiting this site. As far as speaking about divinity and the abuse in government…it is allllll good in my book. But, he speaks a great deal about his band and future films, which leads me to believe he has his own agenda…as his fan base is definitely growing.

In recognizing his passion for the arts, I can arguably say he sounds, looks like, and possess similar attributes of the actor Owen Wilson…then he does to Edgar Casey. But hey, that’s my opinion and I can respect his hustle…he seems like a good guy and I hope his musical contributions will be enlightening and not like those of the mainstream.

Peace

[trainedobserver]

Originally Posted by Peace of mind

... he speaks a great deal about his band and future films, which leads me to believe he has his own agenda…as his fan base is definitely growing.

He appears to be about entertainment more than anything else. There is a large contingent of people who simply wish to be entertained by 'fringe' theories and so forth and Wilcock seems to have positioned himself to be that type of 'entertainer'. He cannot be viewed as a serious researcher IMHO. He is a entertainer in the faux-reality show circuit.