Abraxas has been enjoined and his group is closed Edited

[BROOK]

Originally Posted by SteveX

Wow 12 pages...tuck some reading after I accidentally found this thread. Glad I read it all before posting now.

So it'll (Thuban Thread) be back up as a read only. I think that should satisfy those that want to read it. As for Abrax posting member to sexually harass them... well… if that’s the case he deserves the ban. I think everyone can stand behind that. I’ll add this though... because the allegation isn't fully clarified or proven, as yet, if it's a set up then those doing the "setting up" should be banned. Everyone's aware of the animosity this thread has caused with some folk.

Having read all the post there is none other than the quoted thread below that has disturbed me the most. I'm surprised it's hardly been mentioned. Talk about the cotton wool brigade. (gawd..hope it's not a case of you guys knowing something I don't )





Brook...you later go onto say, within this thread, you posted 32 times in the Thuban thread.... Why? You didn't like the thing. You tuck offence with it. Why keep on reading it? That's akin to sticking your finger in the fire 32 time to see if it burns ...32 times

I've read a couple of those romantic Mills & Boon novels and they are as sexually exsplicit as Abrax. Abrax falls short of the pornography and vulgarity I've read in those top shelf magazines, so I don't see your "sexual perversions" allegations ringing true. Again, if you objected to it on grounds of pornography and sexual perversion...why go back to it? Why didn't you hit the report tab from the get go. I honestly don't see the logic. You had free will to stay away and protect your somewhat Victorian values, with regards to sex. If you have issues there you need to understand the majority does not. I most certainly didn’t feel offended by the first post and I didn’t see any sexual innuendos after that.

If you say to me your 32 visits were to protect me or other members I would be compelled to say "HOW DARE YOU." I would point out to you it's little more than printed words. It's not going to eat me, hurt, distort me its just some geezer on the end of a computer. Much like the rest of us. If you perceive Abrax as evil, spreading distortions and lies pertaining to religion then that's your issue. If you deliberately countered Abrax to protect others or me from our selves, as you insinuated later in this thread, you can keep your arrogance and your cotton wool.

It's very obvious it's a case of knowing something you don't . As you seem to have trouble with someone posting to material that is offensive first, and second inaccurate in many instances.
To my mind and many here it is twisted information to lure. And yes...32 times I swung at it to get to the bottom of what might be an accurate view. And each time, it was dodged, or at the very most led to another lure of inaccurate information..again twisted to conform to the ideas being presented....So, this is my take on it. And 32 times, even though I found much of the material repulsive, and strewn with an "agenda"...that of the makings of a cult....did I say cult? Yes I did..A CULT...that, again in my mind was worthy of addressing.

Have I done this to "protect" anyone? I'm not here to protect anyone. That is not my job. So "HOW DARE YOU" suggest that. I do however have the right to voice an opinion. And if my opinion is, that the first post is vulgar and laden with innuendo, then that is how I see it. I am not in the habit of hitting the report button. Reminds me of the school house tattle tale. And that is not something I would do. And I've seen many threads get shut down for much less.

Now you imply that words cannot eat you, or distort you...well you might want to give that a second thought. As there are written words out there...much of it published..and ancient in fact that have distorted the whole world..and people have been following those words..and hanging on to those words for dear life. So think about that, and the effect that words used on that thread might sway someone to change their life for if they took it all in, and believed it all.

As for the sexual nature of the posts...well, again we are entitled to our opinion..and the rules of the forum stand. And here is a clue..it was not I that reported the sexual nature of the thread, or the harassment ...I was just pointing out the obvious. As you seemed to not be offended by it, I would include you as one of the ones that seemed titillated and lured by it. so without question you should go follow your dragon.

[SteveX]

Originally Posted by BROOK

It's very obvious it's a case of knowing something you don't. As you seem to have trouble with someone posting to material that is offensive first (in your opinion), and second inaccurate in many instances. Censorship is no accomplishment for truth.
To my mind and many here (not according to the poll. There can be many to a minority) it is twisted information to lure. And yes...32 times I swung at it to get to the bottom of what might be an accurate view. And each time, it was dodged, (I also noticed that) or at the very most led to another lure of inaccurate information..again twisted to conform to the ideas being presented....So, this is my take on it. And 32 times, even though I found much of the material repulsive, (you still had to peak in that metaphorical top shelf magazine) and strewn with an "agenda"...that of the makings of a cult....did I say cult? Yes I did..A CULT...that, again in my mind was worthy of addressing. I didn’t see a cult in the making. The same charge has been levied to Project Camalot. Are we in a cult here? I don’t feel that. All I see is a geezer at a computer trying to explain his theory. Much like the rest of us expressing our whacked out ideas, theories, beliefs and eccentricities.

Have I done this to "protect" anyone? I'm not here to protect anyone. That is not my job. So "HOW DARE YOU" suggest that. I do however have the right to voice an opinion. And if my opinion is, that the first post is vulgar and laden with innuendo, then that is how I see it. I am not in the habit of hitting the report button. Reminds me of the school house tattle tale. And that is not something I would do. And I've seen many threads get shut down for much less. I see this a contradiction. If your opinion believes it to be a cult and YOU personally are not drawn to it as stated to by your objections. Why then keep going back to the metaphorical top shelf. I’m afraid this is a tad Marry Whitehouse. If you don’t need saving then who does. I'm drawn to conclude that its me, us, the community…what? What you for?

Now you imply that words cannot eat you, or distort you...well you might want to give that a second thought. As there are written words out there...much of it published..and ancient in fact that have distorted the whole world..and people have been following those words..and hanging on to those words for dear life. So think about that, and the effect that words used on that thread might sway someone to change their life for if they took it all in, and believed it all. I’m getting that save you vib again. A contradiction of the above paragraph. Seems to me that if you fear Abrax’s posts as distortion and leading people astray, you best being going head to head with the major religions and media. They do far worse than a disabled Australian man sat at a computer.

As for the sexual nature of the posts...well, again we are entitled to our opinion..and the rules of the forum stand. And here is a clue..it was not I that reported the sexual nature of the thread, or the harassment ...I was just pointing out the obvious. As you seemed to not be offended by it, I would include you as one of the ones that seemed titillated and lured by it. So without question you should go follow your dragon.

I neither agreed with Abrax’s theory, testimony or thought any of it titillating (not that that is reason for condemnation for the whole thread) but I believe he and you have a right to an opinion and free speech. What I cannot condone is your WILLINGNESS, your own free will, to go and read a thread that offends you…then have the gal to complain about it. Abrax didn’t force you to read it. I, we, they didn't force you to read it. In the same way that no one forces you to read top shelf magazines or watch late night cable porn. You, being of tender persuasion, have NOONE but yourself to blame for being offended. Metaphorically you opened the magazine. You watched the cable porn. THIS IS THE CRUX OF IT.

[Myplanet2]

Originally Posted by SteveX

I neither agreed with Abrax’s theory, testimony or thought any of it titillating (not that that is reason for condemnation for the whole thread) but I believe he and you have a right to an opinion and free speech. What I cannot condone is your WILLINGNESS, your own free will, to go and read a thread that offends you…then have the gal to complain about it. Abrax didn’t force you to read it. I, we, they didn't force you to read it. In the same way that no one forces you to read top shelf magazines or watch late night cable porn. You, being of tender persuasion, have NOONE but yourself to blame for being offended. Metaphorically ou opened the magazine. You watched the cable porn. THIS IS THE CRUX OF IT.

Everyone has their own CRUX to bear. HAHAHAHA. Mine is that those who can't edit their own thoughts and behaviours want to impose rules on everybody else to make up for their own short comings. I won't miss THAT structure from the old matrix.

[rhythm]

please find your way to your hearts

and lets forgive

if there is enything to forgive

i send my open hand out out ALL

and hope to toutch your hearts

peace and free falling ...

would you rather be right
or happy {Louise Hay }

[Kulapops]

Originally Posted by rhythm

please find your way to your hearts

and lets forgive

if there is enything to forgive

i send my open hand out out ALL

and hope to toutch your hearts

peace and free falling ...

would you rather be right
or happy {Louise Hay }

'Abraxas' ? They're a tribute band Rhythm...

Aint' nothin' like the real thing, Baby..

Santana....



Even if Carlos does look as if he's 'channeling something' while playing the guitar in this clip

[fr66ajc]

Pity all this has kicked off. I have been a 'now and then' lurker on the forum. I have little time to read and less time to post. Most of the time I was absorbing the interviews B&K put up on PC.

I finally get the courage up to get a little more involved, spot the Thuban thread and wonder what all the fuss is about and BAMM!!! it's taken down. So I really have no idea what the content was.

If the allegations are as stated by the mods, I find the removal of ALL posts by Abraxasina a little odd. Other forums remove the offending posts and leave the rest up.

As for the bickering and lambasting, well... Far be it for a relative newbe to stick my oar in but if someone has a real gripe then they should take it to the site owners.

Everyone is on their own paths and everyone is at their own stage of unfoldment. I don't believe myself to be very far along the path but I do see plenty of 'unenlightened' behavior here at the moment (in general - no names - just my view).

Negativity is what it is and there does seem to be rather a lot around, which is a shame because it immediately makes me hesitate to post something, however there was one thing said to me during a particular ceremony I was party too several years ago.

'Fear is failure'

Failure to confront your own issues with what is going on causes the aggression displayed to others. Therefore I buckle down, take the metaphorical bull by the horns and post anyway, waiting for a possible rant about my views and thoughts.

Blow me, I get polite and reasonable replies. No need to fear...

I have no wish to tell anyone what to do, doing so goes against my make-up, but I do think a few more 'chill pills' taken with a large dose of self reflection and meditation on why people are so narked about this issue would help.

I would like to read the posts but can't. So be it. I'll read something else.

Peace and love to one and all

93 93/93
Love is the Law, Love under Will

[Boober]

Originally Posted by fr66ajc

.. Far be it for a relative newbe to stick my oar in but if someone has a real gripe then they should take it to the site owners.

Is this meant to be ironic because your not a newbe?? or something like that

[fr66ajc]

Originally Posted by Boober

Is this meant to be ironic because your not a newbe?? or something like that

not ironic... only recently started posting ... that sort of newbie. I signed up months ago but never actually participated. So long time occasional lurker, only the last few weeks actually posting regularly.

[BROOK]

10 Ways to Build a Cult-Like Following

By JK Ellis
Author of Mind Control 101

Recently I was contacted by a very successful Internet marketer who asked me what I would suggest to someone who wanted to create a cult-like following.

This is right down my ally so I gave him some very good advice that he couldn't wait to put into action but the question got me thinking. What steps are there for anyone who wants people to want his/her attention and wisdom?

The result are 10 ways to build a cult-like following. Of course each one of them could be a book in itself but here goes.

1. Initiation vs. Instruction
There is a marked difference between learning by instruction and learning by initiation.

Most people give instruction. This is nothing more than stating facts and teach processes. Any good teacher does that as well as most bad ones.

Learning by initiation is about creating an experience that makes the learning personal and visceral to the student. A good example of that is the 1984 movie “The Karate Kid” . On the one hand you have the macho western karate instructor who taught his students by instruction in a skill 'n' drill process. On the other hand you have the character played by Pat Marito who says that he will teach Ralph Macchios' character karate in exchange for doing chores. But the chores must be done in a certain way “This way wax on. This way wax off.” Only later does the young hero find out that there was a method to his instructors madness and when he figured it out it made complete sense to him as if struck by a lightening bolt.

There are many things that you could simply tell someone and they would intellectually understand but they wouldn't “get it” as an insight. They would only see it as information. The result is that they may use it or they may not.

Teaching by initiation means holding back on simply telling what the student wants to know and instead provide an experience where the student “gets it” on their own.

The subjective experience of the student is that the lesson is much more valuable because 1) they had to work for it and 2) it is felt more personally.

2. Being Accessible

Someone once told me that “There are no long lines for the guru at the bottom of the hill.”

Making yourself scarce adds perceived value but it also distances you from the masses. If you want a cult-like following you need access to the masses otherwise you're just an ivory tower wannabe.

There is an ingenious compromise.

Be accessible as a person but present your knowledge and wisdom as being rare, expensive, mysterious, and only for those who are truly ready for it.

This compromise allows you to build deep personal bonds with people yet have them want more or your presence... as well as be willing to pay for it.

Keep in mind that one cult leader, 2000 years ago, would speak to anyone who would listen but he granted his most sacred attention to his 12 closest disciples.

You can add to this compromise by having “special times” when you are not accessible to anyone. You can tell people that you are meditating, or doing your “spiritual practice” but you don't have to say anything. It's the mystery of why you are absent that you want to cultivate.

3. Imply Secret Knowledge

The role of simply remaining calm and silent will recur again in this essay so I can't understate it. Here is where silence is worth a 1000 words. Saying things like “Hmmm... There are 100 possible solutions to that within your own mind.” and nothing else implies things that you know and that they should know.

4. Remaining calm as if all-knowing

Any sharp change in your emotional state, with the exception of joy and laughter, should be minimized. Any leader/teacher who goes on an angry rant is demonstrating their own lack of control. If you truly have control it should be demonstrated by an unshakable calm as if everything is happening just as you knew it would.

I've always remembered that the scariest martial artist are the ones that don't talk or threaten... they calmly do what they have to do and walk away.

5. Create a detached involvement as if “you” are in a “higher place”

In doing this people will look to you as if there is something more to you than your mere physical presence.

6. Connect deeply with the individual

Here rapport is vital. When you are with people you need to put aside all of your distractions, obligations and problems to focus completely on the person or people you to whom you are speaking.

7. “Chunk Up” whenever possible

This may be a bit abstract to grasp but it's important to creating an appeal because it forces people to think in bigger terms. When you do consistently if gives the impression that you are always thinking bigger than them.

“Chunking Up” is an NLP term that means referring to something that contains what is spoken about as a subset . It can also refer to something that controls or has a larger reach than the topic at hand.

As an example when a person asks “Do you enjoy adult beverages?” a chunked up response would be “There are many adult pleasures I enjoy.” Here, “beverages” is a subset of “pleasures”.

Another example : Statement: “I'll go with you if you promise to control yourself.” Response “I have no intention of controlling how much I enjoy myself.” Here “control” is a subset of “Enjoyment”.

8. Always allude to the mysterious

This can be done by doing the opposite of name dropping. Refer to a very skilled person you learned from who doesn't normally take students. Mention an arcane text that describes a mysterious process you went through. Mention it took you ten years of study to read between the lines and find the real meaning to the work.

9. God-Like Confidence

Here is where the work of Blair Warren in “The Worlds Greatest Cult” really comes in handy. He describes what's called “The God Complex” which encompasses many of the concepts discussed here.

The God Complex is a great example of “chunking up” because it's about seeing EVERYTHING that can possibly happen as if it's all part of the plan and being okay with it.

The God Complex is about having such a larger view of the world and your place in it so that what you are doing, this very moment , regardless of what transpires will be as if it was meant to you be.

The bottom line is that people are going to judge and criticize you; you'll have deal with money and security issues; relationships will change... no matter what. The God Complex includes all of that in a philosophy that allows you to deal with it in a healthy perspective.

10. Appeal to peoples needs and wants

A deep understanding about what people truly respond to is vital if you want to influence anyone. Each individual has their own wants and needs that you have keep in the forefront of your mind.

Good NLP training will help you with that.

People will also respond to the same basic needs being fulfilled; the need to be needed, the need for hope in a tough time, the need to feel in control, the need blame something else for their troubles, the need to learn about something they don't know or not supposed to know.

http://www.mindpowernews.com/BuildACult.htm

[Majorion]

Heres my take, very simple.

If its true Abrax sexually harassed somebody here or more than one person, then yes, he deserved the ban. I think the issue here is whether his Thuban thread should go on or not... I think, if the person was proven to have some malicious intent (re the harassment) then it does justify closing the thread as well, but 'not' completely deleting it from public view, unless some of the material was truly offensive and inappropriate, well then I'd agree with the last mod decision to ban OP and delete the thread, just as things are.

Some of the mods apparently are not in agreement, but I have no reason to believe the harassment claims are a fabrication by any of the mods here.

The problem with deleting threads without full clarification is it makes people even more curious as to the content. I think it would be better if the main Thuban thread (Q&A) were restored publicly, not necessarily opening the thread, but just to let people read the material (those who have not yet) and decide for themselves.

[Kikine]

Originally Posted by Majorion

Heres my take, very simple.

If its true Abrax sexually harassed somebody here or more than one person, then yes, he deserved the ban. I think the issue here is whether his Thuban thread should go on or not... I think, if the person was proven to have some malicious intent (re the harassment) then it does justify closing the thread as well, but 'not' completely deleting it from public view, unless some of the material was truly offensive and inappropriate, well then I'd agree with the last mod decision to ban OP and delete the thread, just as things are.

Some of the mods apparently are not in agreement, but I have no reason to believe the harassment claims are a fabrication by any of the mods here.

The problem with deleting threads without full clarification is it makes people even more curious as to the content. I think it would be better if the main Thuban thread (Q&A) were restored publicly, not necessarily opening the thread, but just to let people read the material (those who have not yet) and decide for themselves.

Agreed

[BROOK]

Originally Posted by SteveX

I neither agreed with Abrax’s theory, testimony or thought any of it titillating (not that that is reason for condemnation for the whole thread) but I believe he and you have a right to an opinion and free speech. What I cannot condone is your WILLINGNESS, your own free will, to go and read a thread that offends you…then have the gal to complain about it. Abrax didn’t force you to read it. I, we, they didn't force you to read it. In the same way that no one forces you to read top shelf magazines or watch late night cable porn. You, being of tender persuasion, have NOONE but yourself to blame for being offended. Metaphorically you opened the magazine. You watched the cable porn. THIS IS THE CRUX OF IT.

Bravo! You are in the same family as your signature video. "Save me vibes" from a paragraph in answer to the same question. ...

You go Mr commentator....(Bill O'Reilly would be proud) while I continue to digest the bile from all that "gall"....again

And as any good politically motivated commontator...let's dodge the issue all together. As the post was in answer to a statement made by a member that was as follows....

but I know abrax hurt nobody...

You sure did learn one thing from the Thuban thread....and that is the same style of answer...fits to a tee....I'm on the 18th hole...."fore" ...and heading for the clubhouse for some good laughs, and giving you no further comment as it is not worth my time....

[BROOK]

SteveX...

May I recommend you stow any voyeuristic tendencies. You will only be offended by your own volition of going to read it.

You are somewhat repeating your self here..so at the risk of repeating myself...I'll play the back nine again.....

Originally Posted by BROOK

Bravo! You are in the same family as your signature video. "Save me vibes" from a paragraph in answer to the same question. ...

You go Mr commentator....(Bill O'Reilly would be proud) while I continue to digest the bile from all that "gall"....again

And as any good politically motivated commontator...let's dodge the issue all together. As the post was in answer to a statement made by a member that was as follows....

You sure did learn one thing from the Thuban thread....and that is the same style of answer...fits to a tee....I'm on the 18th hole...."fore" ...and heading for the clubhouse for some good laughs, and giving you no further comment as it is not worth my time....