Poor Gary Mckinnon

[murnut]

Originally Posted by freekatz

Murnut, I don't mean this in an offensive way but are you just trying to wind everyone up? This is an open forum and everyone is free to post opposing views and debates but, so far in this post I haven't seen you write anything of any relevance other than to keep repeating that Gary broke the law and two wrongs don't make a right. Do you honestly feel so passionately about that? Are you seriously basing your whole argument on the above feeble quote which means absolutely nothing in reality?? Do you sit back and chuckle as you watch people jumping into the fray, knowing that it will go nowhere as you present no real argument?

Seeing as you feel so strongly about the sanctity of man-made laws let me ask you this:

When the French Resistance were hiding people from the Nazis were they wrong for breaking the laws that were in effect at that time (whether it was an occupying army or not, laws are laws)?

Was Ghandi wrong for practicing civil disobedience against the British and deserving of the full punishment of the law?

If the US government declares martial law and some of the soldiers and police refuse to round civilians up should they be punished for defying laws that have been enacted at that time?

I'm just trying to understand your logic, do you feel laws are laws and should never be broken or is it ok in instances when it doesn't harm anyone and may even be of benefit, do you see any grey areas? I'm sure it could be argued that my examples are not valid as I am not quoting actual written laws but I'm sure you get the gist.

All the best to you, I do come in peace

I speak out against the govt all the time...legally.

However if I felt it necessary to break the law I would do so gladly.

And look forward to my day in court. Not try to weasel out of it.

Ghandi accepted his punishment....get it?

French resistance and Gary?

Those folks put their lives on the line...Gary cant even bear to face trial.

When and if the US declares martial law, I am ready for it...thank-you.

You obviously have read my posts...but have no understanding of the meaning.

Some will get it, others never will

[Orion Morris]

I seriously doubt that you are ready for martial law....
Have you ever been to jail buddy? I doubt it! You cannot say that because Gary is avoiding trial that he is not facing the music...

Hackers go to jail for alot longer than 5 years all the time...

Their was a guy here not that long ago that just got 17 years...

You talk big.... but you have no idea...

Quit picking fights with everybody... who cares what you think about Gary... He is in a totally different boat than you... drop it...

Originally Posted by murnut

I speak out against the govt all the time...legally.

However if I felt it necessary to break the law I would do so gladly.

And look forward to my day in court. Not try to weasel out of it.

Ghandi accepted his punishment....get it?

French resistance and Gary?

Those folks put their lives on the line...Gary cant even bear to face trial.

When and if the US declares martial law, I am ready for it...thank-you.

You obviously have read my posts...but have no understanding of the meaning.

Some will get it, others never will

[murnut]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

I seriously doubt that you are ready for martial law....

Your opinion

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

Have you ever been to jail buddy? I doubt it! You cannot say that because Gary is avoiding trial that he is not facing the music...

Yes, I can...Heroes stand up, cowards don't.

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

Hackers go to jail for alot longer than 5 years all the time...

Their was a guy here not that long ago that just got 17 years...

Got a link?

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

You talk big.... but you have no idea...

Quit picking fights with everybody... who cares what you think about Gary... He is in a totally different boat than you... drop it...

Who is picking a fight?

Me?

I am entitled to post my opinion.

I guess you are one of those pro-censorship types

UFO vigilantes hurt the credibility of the UFO community at large....the serious researchers like Leslie Kean, and Stanton Friedman.

That's my opinion, and I could care less about who agrees with me.

If y'all want me to stop posting, stop replying to me.....or ask the mods to ban me.

But I will have been banned for my opinion

[Orion Morris]

Here is your link... couldnt find the exact one... but these should make my point...
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38012/118/
http://www.securityfocus.com/news/10138

What have you been to jail for... For some reason I dont believe you because I have never met anybody who has done time who feels like it is no big deal... "Just face the music." you sound like a kid...

No I am not pro cencorship... but it is "wrong to break laws." remember...

I would never report you or ask to have you banned...

Originally Posted by murnut

Your opinion



Yes, I can...Heroes stand up, cowards don't.



Got a link?



Who is picking a fight?

Me?

I am entitled to post my opinion.

I guess you are one of those pro-censorship types

UFO vigilantes hurt the credibility of the UFO community at large....the serious researchers like Leslie Kean, and Stanton Friedman.

That's my opinion, and I could care less about who agrees with me.

If y'all want me to stop posting, stop replying to me.....or ask the mods to ban me.

But I will have been banned for my opinion

[murnut]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

Here is your link... couldnt find the exact one... but these should make my point...
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38012/118/

He has not been sentenced yet...neither has Gary.

I am willing to bet he receives a suspended sentence.

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

http://www.securityfocus.com/news/10138

With credit for time served and good behavior, Salcedo will be eligible for release in the fall of 2011.

2 to 3 years....try again...and maybe next time read the story first...hehe.

Do you really believe Gary will get more time than an actual thief?

He won't...but even a thief cut his losses and plead out.

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

What have you been to jail for... For some reason I dont believe you because I have never met anybody who has done time who feels like it is no big deal... "Just face the music." you sound like a kid...

No I am not pro cencorship... but it is "wrong to break laws." remember...

I would never report you or ask to have you banned...

I never said I had been sentenced to jail.

What law have I broken?

I apparently am continually being misunderstood here....or maybe many feel there is nothing wrong with vigilantism.

Once you cross the line, just how do you decide where to stop?

Hacking, theft by deception, blackmail...all victimless right?

Will this help serious research?

NO

[Orion Morris]

You must not understand that you will never be the same person once they have taken your life from you... Not very many people get good behavior... plus you will never be able to function in society again... nobody diserves this for a victimless crime.. Nobody!

[murnut]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

You must not understand that you will never be the same person once they have taken your life from you... Not very many people get good behavior... plus you will never be able to function in society again... nobody diserves this for a victimless crime.. Nobody!

The victim was the US military, and US tax payers.

Gary brought this on himself, and only has himself to blame for prolonging it.

If he did not want to go to jail, he should have not been hacking.

[Orion Morris]

Wow.. So when martial law breaks out and they throw you in a 6-8 cell because you broke one of the B.S. laws that they have in place I will say to you... good.. you diserve it.. you were asking for it... Its not the laws fault... or the governments fault... it is your fault for showing signs of resistance...

What is your problem? You have been fighting with people on this for days and days! You would think that you would find something else to pass your time by now.

Originally Posted by murnut

The victim was the US military, and US tax payers.

Gary brought this on himself, and only has himself to blame for prolonging it.

If he did not want to go to jail, he should have not been hacking.

[murnut]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

Wow.. So when martial law breaks out and they throw you in a 6-8 cell because you broke one of the B.S. laws that they have in place I will say to you... good.. you diserve it.. you were asking for it... Its not the laws fault... or the governments fault... it is your fault for showing signs of resistance...

What is your problem? You have been fighting with people on this for days and days! You would think that you would find something else to pass your time by now.

When people reply to my posts...I respond...I am not fighting...merely explaining my opinion to those having difficulty understanding it.

There are plenty of BS laws I disagree with...but the way to fix them is not hacking.

I oppose UFO vigilantism.

What is so hard to understand about that?

[Orion Morris]

That is not hard to understand...
What is hard to understand is how you are beating around the fact that you are unempitetic with Gary's situation....
We could all be locked up for a BS law here very soon!

Originally Posted by murnut

When people reply to my posts...I respond...I am not fighting...merely explaining my opinion to those having difficulty understanding it.

There are plenty of BS laws I disagree with...but the way to fix them is not hacking.

I oppose UFO vigilantism.

What is so hard to understand about that?

[murnut]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

That is not hard to understand...
What is hard to understand is how you are beating around the fact that you are unempitetic with Gary's situation....
We could all be locked up for a BS law here very soon!

No empathy?




I sympathize with the situation that Gary has put himself in.

I have cautioned the ufo community not to use Gary as a pawn, but they have anyway.

But I draw the line on the lies that Gary, or Gary's supporter, are pushing.

This type of disinfo hurts the credibility of the UFO community.

The defacto out come of this gives the public the impression that the ufo community considers itself above the law.

No wonder, a vast majority of folks outside ufo community consider it a joke.

90% plus of the citizens of the world consider themselves law abiding.

Do you?


Can the ufo community force disclosure based on lies?

Can the ufo community force disclosure on blackmail?

Can the ufo community force disclosure based on theft?

Why pray tell would anyone outside of our community ever believe "disclosure" based on the above.

They won't...so why justify it?

Gary turned down 3years...18mos in the US, 18 mos in the UK?

Whose fault is that? Mine?

At what point is Gary responsible for his own actions?

If you ask me, and I know you haven't....he has gotten terrible legal advice.

This all would have been over years ago had he plead out.

The deal offered was very fair

[murnut]

Originally Posted by Orion Morris

That is not hard to understand...
What is hard to understand is how you are beating around the fact that you are unempitetic with Gary's situation....
We could all be locked up for a BS law here very soon!

Oh...and by the way....Obama won't let any BS laws happen

[Antaletriangle]

Everyone's entitiled to their opinions we all agree-this thread has gone nowhere fast from the initiation of this thread to these last posts everyone is still standing knee deep in water whilst the ferrry has been to the other shore and back and we're still here talking in circles.I'll just pop my head rined the corner now and again to see if everyone is still in the water.We all have so much to give to this site in lots of directions-let's get on with finding info. and post here if there are any further developments as i'm sure there will be then discuss those.