Police officers & army personnell, would you turn on your fellow man?

[Steve_A]

Hi alternative-answer,

The probable answer to your question is 'Yes'.

We need look no further than Iraq to understand that people will kill based on religion (another way to write "politics").

We can see in African countries like Haiti killings on a mass scale and indeed years ago in South Africa where people were not only killed, but extremely violently (necklace), even a post in this forum showed a problem in Brazil with over 9000 people 'missing' over two years, many killed by off duty policemen or drug lords.

I really don't think that the US nor the UK would be any different if the situation becomes the same as in any of the scenarios I've just mentioned.

As George Green once said, "One day without food, people will steal for it. Two days without food people will kill for it."

We need not look too far to remember the looting in new Orleans after the hurricane to see how quickly law and order can be lost. Imagine that now on a national scale. What other simple answer is there?

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by alternative-answer

If you are a police officer, army personnel or part of the ever growing band of civillian force, would you turn on your fellow man and hurt, maim, injure, imprison and shoot them? Remember the Nazi's, remember the ghetto's
http://www.historama.com/online-reso...ttoPolice1.jpg this is similar to the growing number of PCSO's in the UK a civilian force, http://www.hampshire.police.uk/NR/rd.../0/PCSOMan.jpg notice any similarities? Identified with blue banding? and now home secetary wants to give more power to civilian enforcement officers, such a parking patrols, council officials etc http://britishpolitics.wordpress.com/tag/jacqui-smith/

[raulduke]

I think this is more complicated than it might seem at first, the choice that is.

My little sister just became a cop this year, so I have just recently been able to access the cop/authoritarian mindset on a personal level.

I can say w/o a shadow of doubt, that (currently at least) little sis would never follow orders she knew to be harmful to the public, or "turn on on her fellow man" so to speak.

The real problem though imo, is that so many of your average police officer's actions are completrly second nature. They train the recruits so intensely, so that they may be able to react quickly in a situation where a non "trained" civillian would hesitate (stop/think) before acting. The training really does take over for them in those situations.
Sis was just telling me a story about a recruit who had been extensively trained to disarm a criminal pointing a gun in his face. In training, after disarming the instructor, the recruits would immediately hand the gun back. This poor recruit developed a "training scar" which unfortunately was discovered in a real situation, where he actually disarmed a criminal, only to instantly return the firearm, and consequently he was shot in the shoulder. He did survive to tell his story though I can't imagine actually coping to that.

Anyway the point is that on some level, training is essentially brainwashing, to elimninate the individual mindset, in some cases almost to the point where there really is no "choice". Theoretically this could be a good or bad thing, but the nature of the training must be examined first, not only what is the actual intention, but what might this training eventually breed. That is to say, will "by the book" training eventually result in the creation of an inhumane and unconscionable officer like this? And is that a good thing in the eyes of the "trainers"?



It is sickening, to see the way that police/military training can almost completely override humanity training (conscience). If I had witnessed that, I might be in jail right now on account of my humanity training. I couldn't in good conscience allow a 200 + lbs. guy (cop or not) drop a 100 pound little girl. There's a good chance that i might have swung w/o thinking actually.

I don't know if little sis will eventually forget her humanity training, I can indeed see it beginning to happen as she dives deeper into the cop world, she's beginning to identify as cop more than anything else. I'll be there though as much as I can, to remind her that she is a smart individual and that she can think for herself.

The bottom line is that despite the training, police/millitary personel are just people, and when we put up these barriers between us and "authorities", it helps them to further separate themselves from and almost dehumanize civillians (and vice versa). In most cases these "authorities" are the most manipulated stratum of society, so it is them that we need to get to most urgently. I'm trying w/ little sis, but it's not easy.

So give a cop a chance, be friendly as long as they are. They more than likely joined to honestly help the public, but the anti-authority behavior may have soured them on the general public over time as they deal w/ people. So when dealing w/ a cop, treat 'em like a human being and hopefully you'll receive the same. Maybe it's just what they need to remind them that there are good people out there who appreciate what they do. We really do need them on our side. I've found that a smile usually helps get thing off on the right foot.

[stal]

ok heres a tiny little inconsequential example.

last week my uncle's gun lisence expired. now he served 25 years in the australian navy, including running support for 70s/80's mid-east black ops, and is now a screw (works in a prison, for the government) but as soon as his ticket expired he got a phone call. a few years ago he sent his prized hunting rifle out to my dads farm for safe keeping. as soon as he said this, he was told it was a serious offense, and threatened with jail time.

same as my dad. he was given 1 day to drive 200kms and hand the rifle in. now my uncle can get the rifle back, after paying $50 to renew his permit. doesnt sound like much until you take into account the $15 per day he has to pay for gun storage. oh yeah, the permit takes 6 weeks to process.

now the police were quite willing to book both my uncle (a decorated ex-serviceman) and dad (a highly respected community man), untill they agreed to pay the $$. also, they live 500kms apart, so there were no personal grudges involved. just standard BS.

[eaglespirit]

Originally Posted by stal

ok heres a tiny little inconsequential example.

last week my uncle's gun lisence expired. now he served 25 years in the australian navy, including running support for 70s/80's mid-east black ops, and is now a screw (works in a prison, for the government) but as soon as his ticket expired he got a phone call. a few years ago he sent his prized hunting rifle out to my dads farm for safe keeping. as soon as he said this, he was told it was a serious offense, and threatened with jail time.

same as my dad. he was given 1 day to drive 200kms and hand the rifle in. now my uncle can get the rifle back, after paying $50 to renew his permit. doesnt sound like much until you take into account the $15 per day he has to pay for gun storage. oh yeah, the permit takes 6 weeks to process.

now the police were quite willing to book both my uncle (a decorated ex-serviceman) and dad (a highly respected community man), untill they agreed to pay the $$. also, they live 500kms apart, so there were no personal grudges involved. just standard BS.

Thanks for sharing Stal!

It IS time, right now...for ALL of Us to STOP asking permission from anyone to do anything regarding Our Own Personal BEING!

The Entrainment of Personal Sovereignty of People living according to the urges from Their Hearts has taken hold on Mother Earth NOW!

Live life from Your Heart and change everything!

STOP abiding by anything that does not feel right to You and Yours!

Start living in Unconditional Love in Your Own Way in the Now and You WILL Be Protected from anything and everything that is out of 'sync' with Your Own Love and Life!

[hueyii]

Originally Posted by eaglespirit

Thanks for sharing Stal!

It IS time, right now...for ALL of Us to STOP asking permission from anyone to do anything regarding Our Own Personal BEING!

The Entrainment of Personal Sovereignty of People living according to the urges from Their Hearts has taken hold on Mother Earth NOW!

Live life from Your Heart and change everything!

STOP abiding by anything that does not feel right to You and Yours!

Start living in Unconditional Love in Your Own Way in the Now and You WILL Be Protected from anything and everything that is out of 'sync' with Your Own Love and Life!

....and stop living in fear of deathcamps, chemtrails and other such hoaxes

[alternative-answer]

Originally Posted by Steve_A

Hi alternative-answer,

The probable answer to your question is 'Yes'.

We need look no further than Iraq to understand that people will kill based on religion (another way to write "politics").

We can see in African countries like Haiti killings on a mass scale and indeed years ago in South Africa where people were not only killed, but extremely violently (necklace), even a post in this forum showed a problem in Brazil with over 9000 people 'missing' over two years, many killed by off duty policemen or drug lords.

I really don't think that the US nor the UK would be any different if the situation becomes the same as in any of the scenarios I've just mentioned.

As George Green once said, "One day without food, people will steal for it. Two days without food people will kill for it."

We need not look too far to remember the looting in new Orleans after the hurricane to see how quickly law and order can be lost. Imagine that now on a national scale. What other simple answer is there?

Best regards,

Steve

This is a bit fatalistic, I disagree that when it comes to it, we will turn on each other, I think as the truth is revealed those in positions of (alleged power) will defend their own. We tend to become more galvanised here in the uk.

[Sol Invictus]

Will the Police defend the powers that be to their dying breath? you better bet the farm they will here in the UK.

I been on the other side as a Civvie Police worker and seen how it works in
'job' circles.

You are either 'Job' or not. Its that simple and stark. When you leave and are no longer 'Job', you are again part of the problem and as distrusted as a person who has never even set foot in a Police station.

Believe me, these people are vsicious and will stop at nothing to defend one another from a non-'job' threat at all times.

I got sick of seeing grown adults treated like animals or worse when they had to interact with the Police and forever will hold them lower than the **** off the b ottom of my shoe.

The question should not be 'will you turn on your fellow man', it should be 'how do you sleep at night knowing that day in day out you stand full square on against your fellow man and ready to turn on them at any given moment and enjoy it'.

[Steve_A]

Hi alternative-answer,

With all due respect I think there may be a rosy picture trying to be painted here.

As a youth I remembered the extremely aggressive behaviour of football 'fans' making not only the supporters of the other team, but also their own 'run the gauntlet' when I lived in Heywood near to Bury - Lancashire.

We cannot also forget the Toxteth riots which spread nationwide - I remember listening to shortband hearing the police trying to stop unruly people attempting to loot a town center.

I remember also when the coalminers went on strike during the hard times - desperate times called for desperate measures.

The point is that people are capable of hurting and maiming just for the fun of it, so I imagine that if they had a reason to hurting and maiming and killing (like here in Brazil) it just becomes second nature.

We've all seen images of Africa where dead bodies are strewn and pedestrians walk by not even noticing what is on the ground.

We are capable of anything put under the right circumstances and that was the point I was trying to make.

Best regards,

Steve

Originally Posted by alternative-answer

This is a bit fatalistic, I disagree that when it comes to it, we will turn on each other, I think as the truth is revealed those in positions of (alleged power) will defend their own. We tend to become more galvanised here in the uk.