**COPIED FROM JL FORUM as per Bill ** 911 no planes?

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

John, no need to get touchy my freind. Dont make it personal.

The burden of proof does not lay with me.

what do you think of this:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9679C8B63

"One worker who had tunneled into the debris said he had found the remains of people strapped into what seemed to be airplane seats"

also how do you know The aircraft debris was not there on the first day? Can you link please....?

[arcora]

I was banned from a popular forum for wondering out loud if the planes actually existed.

I still don't have an opinion - but there is a powerful force trying to classify the no plane theory as outlandish.

Why?

[johnlear]

Originally Posted by arcora

I was banned from a popular forum for wondering out loud if the planes actually existed.

I still don't have an opinion - but there is a powerful force trying to classify the no plane theory as outlandish.

Why?

Because much of the scare tactics of tomorrow depend on the use of holographic technology. Things like "Attacks by Flying Saucers From Outer Space".
If people were to start thinking seriously about holographic technology and that the WTC planes may have been holographic images they might then question the images of "Flying Saucers From Outer Space" that our government might be alleging are go to attack us.

Its very possible that only video fakery was used in the 911 airplane crash hoax. The government probably never suspected that the 'holographic image' issue would ever even get started.

And that is why they come down so hard. When I first introduced the idea on a forum I used to post on I couldn't believe the number of posters that came down on me and came down hard. It was like I pushed the doomsday button. Even the traitoress Valhalla chimed in.

[johnlear]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

John, no need to get touchy my freind. Dont make it personal.

The burden of proof does not lay with me.

what do you think of this:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9679C8B63

"One worker who had tunneled into the debris said he had found the remains of people strapped into what seemed to be airplane seats"

also how do you know The aircraft debris was not there on the first day? Can you link please....?

I am not taking this personal eyes wide open but its obvious you have just fallen off the turnip truck.

All of the nonsense you are posting has been covered in detail over the past several years. If you want to know exactly why there could never have been any airplanes crashing into the World Trade Center on 911 you have only to read my 15 page affidavit submitted to the New York District Court Southern Division on January 28, 2008 which you can find anywhere on the web.

So let me respectfully make this suggestion: either you climb back on the turnip truck and go back to where you came from or do your own linking and quit wasting my time.

Thanks and all the best, Henry.

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by johnlear

I am not taking this personal eyes wide open but its obvious you have just fallen off the turnip truck.

All of the nonsense you are posting has been covered in detail over the past several years. If you want to know exactly why there could never have been any airplanes crashing into the World Trade Center on 911 you have only to read my 15 page affidavit submitted to the New York District Court Southern Division on January 28, 2008 which you can find anywhere on the web.

So let me respectfully make this suggestion: either you climb back on the turnip truck and go back to where you came from or do your own linking and quit wasting my time.

Thanks and all the best, Henry.

Do you think i am henry....?

John, it seems VERY personal to me now. Turnip truck? What are you implying? That im some kind of redneck moron? I am not familiar with american expressions so I hope I am wrong on that count.

You seem to be attacking me rather than addressing my questions.

Really, I would expect better from someone like yourself.

Also, for the record, I do belive that the offical stroy is NOT true. I have read 6 books on 9/11 & numerous websites & have read the work of Griffen, Jones & so on.
I concluded there is very strong evedence that the towers were demolished & that we have been lied regarding the pentagon.

I can see that this technology exists but I have yet to see any evidence to persuade me that it was all hologrammes that were used on 9/11.

I googled "john lear 9/11 affidavit" but found nothing on the first 3 pages. I would love to read it john. Please link.

Love & light.

[johnlear]

Originally Posted by EYES WIDE OPEN

I googled "john lear 9/11 affidavit" but found nothing on the first 3 pages. I would love to read it john. Please link.

Love & light.

Jerry V. Leaphart #jl4468
Jerry V. Leaphart & Assoc., P.C.
8 West Street, Suite 203
Danbury, CT 06810
(203) 825-6265 – phone
(203) 825-6256 – fax
jsleaphart@cs.com

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
DR. MORGAN REYNOLDS, on behalf of :
The United States of America :
:
Plaintiff, : ECF CASE
vs. :
: 07 CIV 4612 (GBD)
SCIENCE APPLICATIONS :
INTERNATIONAL CORP., et al :
: January 28, 2008

Defendants. :
AFFIDAVIT
STATE OF NEVADA :
COUNTY OF CLARK :
JOHN LEAR, of full age, being duly sworn, deposes and says:

I.

1. I am 65 years of age, a retired airline captain and former CIA pilot with over 19,000 hours of flight time, over 11,000 of which are in command of 3 or 4 engine jet transports, have flown over 100 different types of aircraft in 60 different countries around the world. I retired in 2001 after 40 years of flying.

2. I am the son of Learjet inventor, Bill Lear, and hold more FAA airman certificates than any other FAA certificated airman. These include the Airline Transport Pilot certificate with 23 type ratings, Flight Instructor, Flight Engineer, Flight Navigator, Ground Instructor, Aircraft Dispatcher, Control Tower Operator and Parachute Rigger.

3. I flew secret missions for the CIA in Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa between 1967 and 1983.

4. During the last 17 years of my career I worked for several passenger and cargo airlines as Captain, Check Airman and Instructor. I was certificated by the FAA as a North Atlantic (MNPS) Check Airman. I have extensive experience as command pilot and instructor in the Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8 and Lockheed L-1011.

5. I checked out as Captain on a Boeing 707 in 1973 and Captain on the Lockheed L-1011 in 1985.

6. I hold 17 world records including Speed Around the World in a Lear Jet Model 24 set in 1966 and was presented the PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controller's Association) award for Outstanding Airmanship in 1968. I am a Senior Vice-Commander of the China Post 1, the American Legions Post for “Soldiers of Fortune”, a 24 year member of the Special Operations Association and member of Pilotfor911truth.org.

7. I have 4 daughters, 3 grandchildren and live with my wife of 37 years, Las Vegas business woman Marilee Lear in Las Vegas, Nevada.

II.

8. No Boeing 767 airliners hit the Twin Towers as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors. Such crashes did not occur because they are physically impossible as depicted for the following reasons:

A. In the case of UAL 175 going into the south tower, a real Boeing 767 would have begun 'telescoping' when the nose hit the 14 inch steel columns which are 39 inches on center. The vertical and horizontal tail would have instantaneously separated from the aircraft, hit the steel box columns and fallen to the ground.

B. The engines when impacting the steel columns would have maintained their general shape and either fallen to the ground or been recovered in the debris of the collapsed building. One alleged engine part was found on Murray Street but there should be three other engine cores weighing over 9000 pounds each. Normal operating temperatures for these engines are 650°C so they could not possibly have burned up. This is a photo of a similar sized engine from a McDonnell-Douglas MD-11 which impacted the ocean at a high rate of speed. You can see that the engine remains generally intact.(photo, http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...rld/main546355. shtml)

C. When and if the nose of an airplane came in contact with the buildings 14 inch by 14 inch steel box columns and then, 37 feet beyond, the steel box columns of the building core the momentum of the wings would have slowed drastically depriving them of the energy to penetrate the exterior steel box columns. The spars of the wing, which extend outward, could not possibly have penetrated the 14 inch by 14 inch steel box columns placed 39 inches on center and would have crashed to the ground.

D. The argument that the energy of the mass of the Boeing 767 at a speed of 540 mph fails because:

a. No Boeing 767 could attain that speed at 1000 feet
above sea level because of parasite drag which doubles with velocity and parasite power which cubes with velocity.

b. The fan portion of the engine is not designed to accept
the volume of dense air at that altitude and speed.

E. The piece of alleged external fuselage containing 3 or 4 window cutouts is inconsistent with an airplane that hit 14 inch steel box columns, placed 39 inches in center, at over 500 mph. This fuselage section would be telescopically crumpled had it actually penetrated the building as depicted in the CNN video. It is impossible for it to have then re-emerged from the building and then fallen intact and unburned as depicted.

F. The Purdue video fails because no significant part of the Boeing 767 or engine thereon could have penetrated the 14 inch steel columns and 37 feet beyond the massive core of the tower without part of it falling to the ground. The Purdue video misrepresents the construction of the core of the building and depicts unidentified parts of the airplane snapping the core columns which were 12"x36". The Purdue video also misrepresents what would happen to the tail when the alleged fuselage contacted the core. The tail would instantaneously separate from the empennage (aft fuselage). Further, the Purdue video misrepresents, indeed it fails to show, the wing box or center section of the wing in the collision with the core. The wing box is a very strong unit designed to hold the wings together and is an integral portion of the fuselage. The wing box is designed to help distribute the loads of the wings up-and-down flexing in flight.

G. My analysis of the alleged cutout made by the Boeing 767 shows that many of the 14-inch exterior steel box columns which are shown as severed horizontally, do not match up with the position of the wings. Further, several of the columns through which the horizontal tail allegedly disappeared are not severed or broken. In addition, the wing tips of the Boeing 767 being of less robust construction than the inner portions of the wings could not possibly have made the cookie-cutter pattern as shown in the aftermath photos. The wing tips would have been stopped by the 14 inch steel box columns and fallen to the ground.

H. The debris of the Boeing 767, as found after the
collapse, was not consistent with actual debris had there really been a
crash. Massive forgings, spars from both the wing and horizontal and vertical stabilizers, landing gear retract cylinders, landing gear struts, hydraulic reservoirs and bogeys oxygen bottles, a massive keel beam, bulkheads and the wing box itself cold not possibly have 'evaporated' even in a high intensity fire. The debris of the collapse should have contained massive sections of the Boeing 767, including 3 engine cores weighing approximately 9000 pounds apiece which could not have been hidden. Yet there is no evidence of any of these massive structural components from either 767 at the WTC. Such complete disappearance of 767s is impossible.

III.

9. My opinion, based on extensive flight experience both as captain and instructor in large 3 and 4 engine aircraft is that it would have been impossible for an alleged hijacker with little or no time in the Boeing 767 to have taken over, then flown a Boeing 767 at high speed, descending to below 1000 feet above mean sea level and flown a course to impact the twin towers at high speed for these reasons:

A. As soon as the alleged hijackers sat in the pilots seat of the Boeing 767 they would be looking at an EFIS (Electronic Flight Instrumentation System) display panel comprised of six large multi-mode LCDs interspersed with clusters of 'hard' instruments. These displays process the raw aircraft system and flight data into an integrated picture of the aircraft situation, position and progress, not only in the horizontal and vertical dimensions, but also with regard to time and speed as well.

Had they murdered the pilot with a box knife as alleged there would be blood all over the seat, the controls, the center pedestal, the instrument panel and floor of the cockpit. The hijacker would have had to remove the dead pilot from his seat which means he would have had electrically or manually place the seat in its rearmost position and then lifted the murdered pilot from his seat, further distributing blood, making the controls including the throttles wet, sticky and difficult to hold onto.

Even on a clear day a novice pilot would be wholly incapable of taking control and turning a Boeing 767 towards New York because of his total lack of experience and situational awareness under these conditions. The alleged hijackers were not 'instrument rated' and controlled high altitude flight requires experience in constantly referring to and cross-checking attitude, altitude and speed instruments. Using the distant horizon to fly 'visually' under controlled conditions is virtually impossible particularly at the cruising speed of the Boeing 767 of .80 Mach.

The alleged 'controlled' descent into New York on a relatively straight course by a novice pilot in unlikely in the extreme because of the difficulty of controlling heading, descent rate and descent speed within the parameters of 'controlled' flight.

Its takes a highly skilled pilot to interpret the "EFIS" (Electronic Flight Instrument Display) display, with which none of the hijacker pilots would have been familiar or received training on, and use his controls, including the ailerons, rudder, elevators, spoilers and throttles to effect, control and maintain a descent. The Boeing 767 does not fly itself nor does it automatically correct any misuse of the controls.

B. As soon as the speed of the aircraft went above 360 knots (=414 mph) indicated airspeed a "clacker" would have sounded in the cockpit. The 'clacker' is a loud clacking sound, designed to be irritating, to instantly get the attention of the pilot that he is exceeding the FAA-authorized speed of the aircraft. The clacker had no circuit breaker on September 11, 2001 although it does now simply because one or more accidents were caused, in part, by the inability to silence the clacker which made decision, tempered with reasoning, impossible because of the noise and distraction.

C. Assuming, however, that the alleged hijacker was able to navigate into a position to approach the WTC tower at a speed of approximately 790 feet per second the alleged hijacker would have about 67 seconds to navigate the last 10 miles. During that 67 seconds the pilot would have to line up perfectly with a 208 ft. wide target (the tower) and stay lined up with the clacker clacking plus the tremendous air noise against the windshield and the bucking bronco-like airplane, exceeding the Boeing 767 maximum stability limits and encountering early morning turbulence caused by rising irregular currents of air.

He would also have to control his altitude with a high degree of
precision and at the alleged speeds would be extremely difficult.

In addition to this the control, although hydraulically boosted, would be very stiff. Just the slightest control movements would have sent the airplane up or down at thousands of feet a minute. To propose that an alleged hijacker with limited experience could get a Boeing 767 lined up with a 208 foot wide target and keep it lined up and hold his altitude at exactly 800 feet while being aurally bombarded with the clacker is beyond the realm of possibility. [NIST claims a descent from horizontal angle of 10.6 degrees for AA11 at impact and 6 degrees for UA175; see page 276 of 462 in NCSTAR 1-2].

That an alleged hijacker could overcome all of these difficulties and hit a 208 foot wide building dead center at the north tower and 23 feet east of dead center at the south tower is simply not possible. At the peak of my proficiency as a pilot I know that I could not have done it on the first pass. And for two alleged hijackers, with limited experience to have hit the twin towers dead center on September 11, 2001 is total fiction. It could not happen.

IV.

10. No Boeing 767 airliner(s) exceeded 500 mph in level flight at approximately 1000 feet on 9/11 as fraudulently alleged by the government, media, NIST and its contractors because they are incapable of such speeds at low altitude.

11. One of the critical issues of the 'impossible' speeds of the aircraft hitting the World Trade Center Towers alleged by NIST as 443 mph (385 kts. M.6, American Airlines Flight 11) and 542 mph (470 kts. M.75, United Airlines 175) is that the VD or dive velocity of the Boeing 767 as certificated by the Federal Aviation under 14 CFR Part 25 Airworthiness Standards; Transport Category Transports of 420 kts CAS (Calibrated Air Speed) makes these speeds achievable. This is unlikely.

12. The 'Dive Velocity' VD is 420 knots CAS (calibrated airspeed)(483 mph). Some allege that this speed, 420 knots (483 mph) is near enough to the NIST alleged speeds that the NIST speeds 443 (385 kts.) mph and 542 mph (471 kts.), could have been flown by the alleged hijackers and are probably correct.

13. In fact VD of 420 knots (483 mph) is a speed that is a maximum for certification under 14 CFR Part 25.253 High Speed Characteristics and has not only not necessarily been achieved but is far above VFC (390 kts. 450 mph) which is the maximum speed at which stability characteristics must be demonstrated.(14 CFR 25.253 (b).

14. What this means is not only was VD not necessarily achieved but even if it was, it was achieved in a DIVE demonstrating controllability considerably above VFC which is the maximum speed under which stability characteristics must be demonstrated. Further, that as the alleged speed is considerably above VFC for which stability characteristics must be met, a hijacker who is not an experienced test pilot would have considerable difficulty in controlling the airplane, similar to flying a bucking bronco, much less hitting a 208 foot target dead center, at 800 feet altitude (above mean sea level) at the alleged speed.

15. Now to determine whether or not a Boeing 757 or Boeing 767 could even attain 540 miles per hour at 800 feet we have to first consider what the drag versus the power ratio is.

Drag is the effect of the air pushing against the frontal areas of the fuselage and wing and horizontal and vertical stabilizers. Drag also includes the friction that is a result of the air flowing over these surfaces. If there was no drag you could go very fast. But we do have drag and there are 2 types: induced and parasite. Assume we are going really fast as NIST and the defendants claim, then we don't have to consider induced drag because induced drag is caused by lift and varies inversely as the square of the airspeed. What this means is the faster you go the lower the induced drag.

What we do have to consider is parasite drag. Parasite drag is any drag produced that is not induced drag. Parasite drag is technically called 'form and friction' drag. It includes the air pushing against the entire airplane including the engines, as the engines try to push the entire airplane through the air.

16. We have two other things to consider: induced power and
parasite power.

Induced power varies inversely with velocity so we don't have to consider that because we are already going fast by assumption and it varies inversely.
Parasite power however varies as the cube of the velocity which
means to double the speed you have to cube or have three times the power.

17. So taking these four factors into consideration we are only concerned with two: parasite power and parasite drag, and if all other factors are constant, and you are level at 800 feet and making no turns, the parasite drag varies with the square of the velocity but parasite power varies as the cube of the velocity.

What this means is at double the speed, drag doubles and the power required to maintain such speed, triples.

The airspeed limitation for the Boeing 767 below approximately 23,000 feet is 360 kts [414 mph] or what they call VMO (velocity maximum operating).

That means that the maximum permissible speed of the Boeing 767 below 23,000 feet is 360 knots and it is safe to operate the airplane at that speed but not faster.

18. While the Boeing 767 can fly faster and has been flown faster during flight test it is only done so within carefully planned flight test programs. We can safely infer that most commercial 767 pilots have never exceeded 360 knots indicated air speed below 23,000 feet.

19. The alleged NIST speed of 443 mph (385 kts,) for American Airlines Flight 11 would be technically achievable. However the NIST speed of 542 mph (470 kts) for United Airlines Flight 175 which is 50 kts. above VD is not commensurate with and/or possible considering:

(1) the power available,* **
(2) parasite drag (NAVAIR 00-80T-80 Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators
(3) parasite power (NAVAIR 00-80T-80 Aerodynamics for Naval Aviators
(4) the controllability by a pilot with limited experience. 14 CFR Part 25.253 (a)(b)
* http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?...01MA063&rpt=fa
** http://www.content.airbusworld.com/S...PW4000_FAA.pdf

20. Therefore the speed of the aircraft, that hit the World Trade Center, as represented by NIST, particularly that of United Airlines Flight 175 is fraudulent and could not have occurred.

21. One more consideration is the impossibility of the PW4062 turbofan engines to operate in dense air at sea level altitude at high speed.

The Boeing 767 was designed to fly at high altitudes at a maximum Mach of .86 or 86/100ths the speed of sound. This maximum speed is called MMO, (Maximum Mach Operating). Its normal cruise speed, however, is Mach .80 (about 530 mph) or less, for better fuel economy. (The speed of sound at 35,000 feet is 663 mph so 530 mph is Mach .7998 see

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/sound.html.)

The fan tip diameter of the PW4062 which powered UAL 175 was 94 inches, over 7 feet in diameter making it, essentially a huge propeller.
This huge fan compresses enormous amount of air during takeoff to produce the thrust necessary to get the airplane off of the ground and into the air.
At high altitudes, in cruise, where the air is much thinner and where the engines are designed to fly at most of the time, the fan and turbine sections are designed to efficiently accept enormous amounts of this thin air and produce an enormous amount of thrust.

But at low altitudes, in much denser air, such as one thousand feet, where the air is over 3x as dense as at 35,000 feet, going much faster than Vmo or 360 knots, the air is going to start jamming up in the engine simply because a turbofan engine is not designed to take the enormous quantities of dense air at high speed, low altitude flight. Because of the much denser air the fan blades will be jammed with so much air they will start cavitating or choking causing the engines to start spitting air back out the front. The turbofan tip diameter is over 7 feet; it simply cannot accept that much dense air, at that rate, because they aren't designed to.

So achieving an airspeed much over its Vmo which is 360 knots isn't going to be possible coupled with the fact that because the parasite drag increases as the square of the speed and the power

required increases as the cube of the speed you are not going to be able to get the speed with the thrust (power) available.

It can be argued that modern aerodynamic principles hold that if an aircraft can fly at 35,000 ft altitude at 540 mph (~Mach 0.8), and for a given speed, both engine thrust and airframe drag vary approximately in proportion to air density (altitude), that the engine can produce enough thrust to fly 540 mph at 800 ft. altitude.

That argument fails because although the engine might be theoretically capable of producing that amount of thrust, the real question is can that amount of thrust be extracted from it at 540 mph at 800 ft.

22. To propose that a Boeing 767 airliner exceeded its designed limit speed of 360 knots by 127 mph to fly through the air at 540 mph is simply not possible. It is not possible because of the thrust required and it's not possible because of the engine fan design which precludes accepting the amount of dense air being forced into it.

23. I am informed that the lawsuit for which this affidavit is intended is in its preliminary, pre-discovery phase. I am further informed that actual eyewitness statements cast considerable doubt on the jetliner crash claims, irrespective of the media-driven impression that there were lots of witnesses. In fact, the witnesses tend, on balance, to confirm there were no jetliner crashes. I am also informed that information that will enable further refinement of the issues addressed in this affidavit will be forthcoming in discovery including, without limitation, the opportunity to take depositions and to request relevant documentation (additional information). When that additional information is obtained, I will then be in a position to offer such other and further opinions as, upon analysis, that additional information will mandate.

24. At this stage, it cannot properly be assumed, much less asserted
as factual, that wide-body jetliners crashed into the then Twin Towers of the WTC. Any declaration that such events occurred must be deemed false and fraudulently asserted, video images notwithstanding.

Notes:
1. On any chart plotting velocity versus either drag or thrust required or power required the parasite value rises sharply after 300 kts,
2. On any chart plotting velocity versus thrust or power required the curves rises sharply after 250 kts.
3. On any chart plotting velocity versus thrust required at sea level, the curve rises dramatically above 200 kts as does the curve for power required.
I swear the above statements to be true to the best of my knowledge.
_/s/ John Olsen Lear___________
John Olsen Lear
1414 N. Hollywood Blvd.
Las Vegas, NV 89110-2006
Subscribed and Sworn to before
me this 24 day of January 2008.
/s/ Connie Jones______________
Notary Public/Appt Exp. 11/22/09
Certificate #94-2650-1

This is the page for the Boeing 767-200 Type Data Certificate information from which was used in this affidavit:
<rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/15302e51a401f11a8625718b00658962/$FILE/A1NM.pdf >.

This is the page that shows how dive tests are conducted:
http://www.flightsimaviation.com/dat...rt_25-335.html

This is the page for the type data certificate for the engines used on UAL175
http://www.content.airbusworld.com/S...PW4000_FAA.pdf

This is the page that shows the type of engine used on the MD-11 that crashed into the ocean. (photo attached)
http://www.bst.gc.ca/en/reports/air/...rep1_06_01.asp
16 Case 1:

Thank you Zorgon!

Seriously....thanks. Now I have more to read and view.

You are really on the Ball. You cannot argue with the facts.
And in this case...The Truth!

I hope the rest of you all check out Zorgon's (And John's) website....
The Living Moon! Good stuff!

[Orion11]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

Thank you Zorgon!

Seriously....thanks. Now I have more to read and view.

You are really on the Ball. You cannot argue with the facts.
And in this case...The Truth!

I hope the rest of you all check out Zorgon's (And John's) website....
The Living Moon! Good stuff!

Yes! Thank you!!

truth hurts hmm..

Thanks soo much.

?

Originally Posted by Mike_Jetson

The building damage is always pictured as going inwards. Its a tough one to explain without something hitting it

Well not really A window cleaner 'could' have pre placed special chargers and no one would have noticed... months before

Widow cleaners are 'invisible'

It is interesting to note that one window cleaner was interviewed because for some reason he stayed home that day... He would have been at work on that building if he hadn't

There is ALWAYS another explanation...

[DoctorTony]

Originally Posted by eXchanger

it was a hologram...
NOT, a plane that you saw

it sure was a fly-by
and, it's one, that isn't going to fly bye

why waste a plane,
when you plainLY do NOT have to

(pardon the puns)

and, then, they think, people will sleep through it


surpriSe - SurpriSe - SurpriSe

people are waking up...
all, the greed, that has gone into the making of america,
selling people, lots and lots of toys...
as, many as, they will buy
even better, if you give them credit
and, extend that, to the point,
that they can barely swim

well the information age, that we are in,
they NEVER counted on people walking around,
with the toys--their "greed machines"
(all the cameras, videocams, etc.,
on the streets) appear to be
actually being used against them

it looks very good on them...doesn't it !!!

now, isn't this a step in the right direction

this is fabulous "good stuff"

The truth it is, being told
and, there is NO discounting this stuff

as, i said before -- this is eXcellent reporting

brightest blessings
susan
the eXchanger

A holographic image could it very well be eXchanger.
If you look at a picture of a Boieng 747 and compare it to the picture you will see differences.
I have seen so much footage on this stuff, as we all have, that I am retiring from this topic after this writing.

Shortly after the War in Iraq began Exxon announced Record EVER quarter profits while Americans shelled out more at the pumps willingly because of the 'war effort' even though OPEC had reduced prices due to fear of what might happen

There is also the fact that WE NEVER BOUGHT ANY OIL from Iraq

I here a lot of talk about the NWO... well lets have a look at something...

Prescott Bush, the Rockfellars and Standard oil FUNDED THE NAZI into power...

This is now history...

Lets have a look at a few chapters of this history that can indeed be verified... and if this doesn't shock you... I would go have your pulse checked because you might already be dead

Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research - Links

The Rockefeller clan had a powerful control over the Bush ancestors. Samuel Prescott Bush (grandfather to George Herbert Walker Bush and great-grandfather to George Walker Bush) Was employed by John D Rockefeller's brother Frank at Buckeye Steel Castings Company. Sam Bush succeeded as president of Buckeye when Frank Rockefeller retired. Sam Bush was also director of William Rockerfeller's interests in the Pennsysvania Railroad, and was enlisted to aid Percy Rockefeller's Remington Arms get more government business during WWI. Sam Bush's son Prescott Sheldon Bush was an eugenicist on record, lost his first election attempt as Connecticut senator when it was revealed that he was Treasurer of Planned Parenthood in Connecticut. As usual Bush lied about his past. Prescott Bush's connection to eugenics is listed elsewhere. This collection is assembled just to demonstrate John D. Rockefeller's ties to the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research eugenics mentality. Step by step the story becomes clear about supporting mass murder willfully, deliberately, intentionally, knowingly.

http://ecosyn.us/Bush-Hitler/Rockefe..._Eugenics.html

Timeline of Treason: The Bush Family Connections to the Nazis


This timeline is a collection of all data related to the Bush family and the connections beginning in 1833...


Too much to quote you will have to look it up and read it... but AFTER the war we have this..


1945:

The Treasury Department revealed to congress that United Steel produced the following percentages of war munitions for the Nazis: Pig iron 50.8%; Pipe & tubes 45.5%; Universal plate 41.4%; Galvanised sheet 38.5%; Heavy plate 36%; Explosives 35%; Wire 22.1%. This is the same firm Prescott Bush acted, as banker for. In effect, Prescott was Hitler’s American banker.

Allen Dulles sought out a young Naval Officer that had been put in charge of some captured Nazi documents. If the documents surfaced it would have revealed Dulles as a traitor. In a deal to bury the documents, Dulles agreed to finance the young man’s first political race. This was the beginning of the political career of Richard Nixon.

Project Paperclip begins to import Nazis into the United States.

TIMELINE

Project Paper Clip

over 580 NAZI scientists were given pardons and brought to America... 118 of them were the rocket scientists that immediately went to the Army to work on ICBM's etc...



After the war, 118 German rocket scientists worked together at Fort Bliss, Texas. (U.S. ARMY AVIATION AND MISSILE COMMAND)

THIS was the day that your government decided it was OKAY to lie to you...

Intelligence and government officials faced a delicate moral quandary in 1945 - whether it was worth it to give American homes to men who had invented weapons to kill American soldiers, men who in some cases subscribed to beliefs that hundreds of thousands Americans had died to eradicate. In the end they decided it was, if these men could help the United States defeat the Soviets.

—Christine Gibson is a former editor at American Heritage magazine.

Back to the Time Line....

1946:

Nixon defeated Jerry Voohris for congress with the help of an influx of money from New York centered banks.

1947:

Following the war, authorities seeking to locate the Dutch Royal family’s jewelry discovered the transaction papers of the Silesian American Corporation in the books of Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart. The bank manager, H.J. Kounhoven came under intense scrutiny and was shocked by the discovery. Soon Kounhoven traveled to New York to inform Prescott Bush. Two weeks later, the otherwise healthy Dutch banker died of a heart attack.

1950:

Prescott Bush defeated in his political race due to his background association with the American eugenics movement.

1951:

Union Bank liquidated. The Bush family received $1.5 million from its interest in Union Bank.

1952:

Prescott Bush elected to senate.

Prescott Bush instrumental in the selection of Nixon as vice presidential candidate.

1953:

John Foster Dulles appointed Secretary of State.

Allen Dulles appointed Director of the CIA.

With money from Brown Brothers and Harriman, George Bush forms Zapata, a front for the CIA.

1954:

CIA under the direction of Allen Dulles help span a coup against Jacobo Arbenz in Guatemala to aid United Fruit. Schroeder Bank was partnered with United Fruit in the banana business. Allen Dulles was a sitting board member of Schroeder Bank. Both John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles had investments in firms with heavy investments in United Fruit. In addition, the American ambassador at the UN was a stockholder of United Fruit and President Eisenhower's personal secretary was the wife of United Fruit's public relations director. The Dulles brothers convinced Eisenhower that Arbenz was a threat to American national security and got his appoval to develop a plan to get rid of the Guatemalan President.

Copy of Prescott Bush 1942 Indictment Under Trading With the Enemy Act!

http://www.mbpolitics.com/Bush2000/VestingDetail.htm

In the Federal Register

http://www.mbpolitics.com/Bush2000/Vesting%20248.gif

Former Federal Prosecutor John Loftus confirms the Bush-Nazi scandal
Copyright October 31. 2003

Some of our most famous American families, including the Bushes, made their fortunes from the Holocaust. Before I tell this awful story, I have to admit that I am a Democrat, but I quite like this President. He is not the sharpest tool in the shed, but he has a good heart, and the good sense not to follow in his father's footsteps. "W" has some good people around him who keep a firewall in the White House against his father's oil cronies. In terms of Republican politics, "W" is a rebel.

http://www.john-loftus.com/bush_nazi_scandal.asp

The Bush Family and Nazi Blood Money
by Victor Thorn

Have you ever wondered how Adolf Hitler, a destitute artist who lived in flophouses, was able to become Germany's preeminent Furher-god in the 1930's and 1940's? I mean, how many near-homeless people are you aware of that have had such good fortune befall them? As many of you know, the Nazi phenomenon was not accidental. Instead, Wall Street bankers (among others) were the hidden financiers behind their meteoric rise to power. Even more regrettable is the fact that our current President's family were among those who bankrolled and profited enormously from the German War Machine.

http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/bn3b.html

THE IG FARBEN/ROCKEFELLER/DULLES CONNECTION

"Before the war (WWII) Standard of New Jersey (controlled by the Rockefellers) had forged a synthetic oil and rubber cartel with the Nazi-controlled I.G. Farben, prompting official claims of treason in
the United States…

The New Jersey oil company wasn’t the only U.S. corporation working with the industrial conglomerate Farben and the Nazis, however. As will be seen, Jack Philby (British spy) had ties to the entire network through his friend Allen Dulles (American traitor)."


On July 31, 1941, a New York Herald Tribune article revealed that the Union Banking Corp.-New York. had been created and funded by the Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart, a Dutch bank formed and controlled by German steel magnate and one-time Nazi supporter Fritz Thyssen. The UBC was formed by Thyssen with the assistance of W. A. Harriman; the executive board consisted of trusted partners of Harriman and Thyssen. At the time the article was written, several members of Brown Brothers Harriman served on the board of the UBC, including Prescott Bush. As a Dutch-owned company, the U.S. assets of the UBC were frozen by the United States Government on May 10, 1940.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush

Bush Property Seized--Trading with the Enemy


In October 1942, ten months after entering World War II, America was preparing its first assault against Nazi military forces. Prescott Bush was managing partner of Brown Brothers Harriman. His 18-year-old son George, the future U.S. President, had just begun training to become a naval pilot. On Oct. 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City which were being conducted by Prescott Bush.
Under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the government took over the Union Banking Corporation, in which Bush was a director. The U.S. Alien Property Custodian seized Union Banking Corp.'s stock shares, all of which were owned by Prescott Bush, E. Roland `` Bunny '' Harriman, three Nazi executives, and two other associates of Bush.@s1
The order seizing the bank `` vests '' (seizes) `` all of the capital stock of Union Banking Corporation, a New York corporation, '' and names the holders of its shares as:

http://www.geocities.com/bushfamilynazis/bn2a.html

Standard Oil - A Closer Look

So lets see what happened to Standard Oil... again we are following the money trail...


Standard Oil : Today

The former Standards consolidate further to compete in the global petroleum market, and marketing as Standard in the United States is not in the picture. The last company to widely use "Standard" on its US stations is sold.

Have a look at this page... it will show you who is Standard Oil today... it might open a few eyes on just how much we are under control...

http://www.us-highways.com/sohist1999.htm

So...

In 1915 Prescott Bush, Rockefellers and Standard Oil were in power...
In 2008 G W Bush, Rockefellers and Exxon are still in power... and stll playing war games and profiteering on the misery of war

I see no NWO... only the Old World Order doing Business as Usual


SHELL OIL

Shell Oil is the largest independent Oil company in the World and are moving to control the Hydrogen Market (More on that in a new thread)

Shell is a subsidiary of Royal Dutch Shell based in the Netherlands

The Bilderberg Club (the real 'illuminati') is based in the Netherlands, and headed by the Dutch Royal Family

The New Fresh and Easy grocery chain that is sweeping the Nation is tied to Royal Dutch Shell... {look under stock market as its not easy to find in mainstream}

The World Justice Court is in the Netherlands...

Anyone seeing a trend here?

[Bigfatfurrytexan]

Isn't the Netherlands supposed to be the supposed origination point for the Aryans? Or was that Finland?

Originally Posted by Bigfatfurrytexan

Isn't the Netherlands supposed to be the supposed origination point for the Aryans? Or was that Finland?

Not sure... but the Netherlands is a major Key in all this

[HallieBallie]

Originally Posted by zorgon

Not sure... but the Netherlands is a major Key in all this

Dutch, Digging Deep, Find Bush's Pilgrim Roots

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...54C0A96F948260

He praised the Dutch, saying that the friendship between their country and the United States ''is older than the American Constitution'' and that the Dutch Government was one of the models that had inspired the Founding Fathers.

Does this give some answers.

I remembered this when Bush sr visited my country (The Netherlands).

History, i think, is a major key for some people.

Originally Posted by HallieBallie

Dutch, Digging Deep, Find Bush's Pilgrim Roots
History, i think, is a major key for some people.

Thanks!! I never dug deeper than 1938 and Prescott before no reason to... but it might be worth a geneolgy trace

[abgott]

Look a the first video here :

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=sElG-J3RlEs

and have a look at 7:14 minute .....

there is a plane (?) or something like this which passing between the tower and the camera ......

A b2 ?

A bird ?

the missile luncher ?

Re Wonder Woman

There is no way to know whether or not she made it out, only that minutes after the fireball the fire in that area is OUT and she is holding on to the metal for support and there for its not HOT... yet they want us to believe that the fires raged hot enough to soften steel...

This is no disrespect to the lady... yet the fact is she shouldn't be there.

I have forged steel to make swords... it takes a LONG TIME to get the metal hot enough to be pliable... and it cools rapidly...

The actual fireball lasted 14 seconds... I screen captured from the video 1 second intervals

The buildings were made strong enough to withstand FIVE plane hits and still stand... according to the designers

I don't usually get involved in the 911 debates because they get ugly... but the facts speak for themselves...

The metal was STILL RED HOT in the ground 6 WEEKS after..








See for yourselves...

9/11 World Trade Center, 6 weeks later,still 1500 degrees!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsh-JpY9bk4

The dripping metal down the side of the building...





This metal is bright orange.... yet skeptics say "Oh it's obviously molten aluminum from the plane..."

Well OBVIOUSLY

Thermite Experiment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrCWLpRc1yM

Molten Aluminum Experiment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQdkyaO56OY

Pouring molten Aluminum

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhbaiuK3M3U


So there you have it...

Now I still have issues with the Thermite explanation simply because there is no way thermite would keep the metal red or orange hot 6 Weeks after the collapse in the ground... and no insulation around the steel being material from the building like concrete would hold the heat that long...

So what did?

I need help locating a video clip

I consider it of immense importance. I thought I had saved a copy but cannot find it in my library

I have a series of captures from it...

This is the remaining steel frame skeleton Look at it closely and explain to me how the steel vaporizes into dust?



This is more clear in the video... so we need to find it...

A beam weapon, as John suggest CAN indeed produce such results... and explain both the fine powder of the left over material and the 'missing matter'

It is unfortunate (for us) that they speedily dumped all the material in the ocean

And before you say "We don't have any 'beam weapons'... you should know that I have a LOT of data on that ... for another thread

[HallieBallie]

Originally Posted by zorgon

I need help locating a video clip

I consider it of immense importance. I thought I had saved a copy but cannot find it in my library

I have a series of captures from it...

This is the remaining steel frame skeleton Look at it closely and explain to me how the steel vaporizes into dust?

Zorgon

I saw this link on another topic , ULTRA ALTERNATIVE 9/11 theory. in » Project Avalon Forum » Project Camelot » Conspiracy Research
Maybe you mention figure 38(b). Another video of steel turning to steel dust, although CNN’s Aaron Brown calls it smoke. on page: http://www.drjudywood.com/articles/D...WarsBeam3.html

You can't download (i can't with FF3 on Linux) the avi en mpg from the link, but you can download it from the picture.

I have downloaded it, if you can't.

BTW http://www.drjudywood.com/ is very nice to look at.

[Bill Ryan]

Hi John, Henry, Ron, everyone:

I enjoyed Henry's question mark.

What seems to have happened is this: (great theater...)

John thought EYES WIDE OPEN was Henry Deacon... and insulted Henry (but addressing it to EYES WIDE OPEN).

Then Henry saw it later and posted his question mark.

John, you know that I respect you hugely. But what you said (AS IF to Henry was not warranted. Henry has been to some places few people ever have - but not (to the best of my knowledge) on any turnip truck.

As best I know, you don't know the guy. John, do take the trouble - after all the trouble you HAVE taken to collect all your data - to get his data also. Not logical, Captain, to ignore that.

For those who don't know the history:

Henry stated on Camelot (publicly) that the WTC planes were real, not holograms - because (explained to me privately) he personally worked on the technology used in the data transfer from the 9/11 control base to the "white aircraft" (the data relay plane) ... which was relaying control data to the actual WTC aircraft.

On that basis (and ALSO from what he was briefed about, as I understand it) Henry fairly reasonably concluded that the WTC planes were real.

If they WEREN'T - then there was even more of a charade going on than anyone realizes even now, and those with good data need to work together to figure this out.

Repeat: work together...

There's a real opportunity here to collaborate to figure things out. If we miss this, then we're all dumb.

I'll now monitor this thread with tremendous interest...

Very best to all - Bill

[EYES WIDE OPEN]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan

Hi John, Henry, Ron, everyone:

I enjoyed Henry's question mark.

What seems to have happened is this: (great theater...)

John thought EYES WIDE OPEN was Henry Deacon... and insulted Henry (but addressing it to EYES WIDE OPEN).

Then Henry saw it later and posted his question mark.

John, you know that I respect you hugely. But what you said (AS IF to Henry was not warranted. Henry has been to some places few people ever have - but not (to the best of my knowledge) on any turnip truck.

As best I know, you don't know the guy. John, do take the trouble - after all the trouble you HAVE taken to collect all your data - to get his data also. Not logical, Captain, to ignore that.

For those who don't know the history:

Henry stated on Camelot (publicly) that the WTC planes were real, not holograms - because (explained to me privately) he personally worked on the technology used in the data transfer from the 9/11 control base to the "white aircraft" (the data relay plane) ... which was relaying control data to the actual WTC aircraft.

On that basis (and ALSO from what he was briefed about, as I understand it) Henry fairly reasonably concluded that the WTC planes were real.

If they WEREN'T - then there was even more of a charade going on than anyone realizes even now, and those with good data need to work together to figure this out.

Repeat: work together...

There's a real opportunity here to collaborate to figure things out. If we miss this, then we're all dumb.

I'll now monitor this thread with tremendous interest...

Very best to all - Bill

Thank you Bill. I am glad to see somebody else standing up to John.

I cant beilive everyone else just chose to ignore his insult, no matter who it was aimed at.

I guess their thinking was "but its john lear, we must accept what he says".

All it has done for me on a personal level is make me realise how john very quickly reverted to the tactis of attacking the source rather than adressing the question.
Its the same tactic those who belive the offical story use & is childish & transparent.

Thousands, including me have listened to your very intersting interviews on camelot john. I may not belive all of it, maybe only some of it but the point is I sat and listend. I thought you would return the favour, put your ego aside and listen to what I asked (rather than start calling me names in the first instance) but I guess I was wrong.

I dont really care if you have "been through the same thing thousands of times". You havnet with me yet. You are making the claims & its up to you to provide the proof. It comes with the territory john. I really did want to talk about this in an adult fashion but it appears you dont.

I see you posted your affidavid. Unfortunatly, I wont be reading it as you have totally put me off because of your response.

John, come on man, grow up a bit and stop being grumpy by throwing your toys out of the pram when someone does not agree with you.

I leave this thread very dissapointed.

Love & light to all.

[abgott]

Originally Posted by Bill Ryan

Henry stated on Camelot (publicly) that the WTC planes were real, not holograms - because (explained to me privately) he personally worked on the technology used in the data transfer from the 9/11 control base to the "white aircraft" (the data relay plane) ... which was relaying control data to the actual WTC aircraft.

Hello bill, all,

what is the "white aircraft" ?

is there is some web links about that ?

thanks

Mystery 9/11 aircraft was military 'doomsday plane'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgF9Fd4UyMY