Need advice - How to live Non-Electrically

[granny]

Originally Posted by doodah

Thanks, Peace of mIne. I live in what used to be reliable farming country, but rain has definitely become a problem. Last year we had two solid months with no rain, in July and August, in the middle of the growing season. Many farmers couldn't grow enough hay to get their animals through the winter. So, yes, it's getting more difficult in many areas.

I was thinking about my wind-up kitchen timer and my wind-up clock. These work very nicely non-electrically. Is a hand-pump flashlight something similar? Anybody know how hand-pump flashlights work?

Thanks for the Foxfire reference. Many hours of research ahead!

Putting forth positive intent to create a completely dull and boring October.

Terrific thread

Instead of "wind up" for lights and radios ... think "crank"
I don't have crank lights, but do have shake lights ... some better than others, but the crank radio is great.

... am doing same as above

Granny

[Shechaiyah]

As in camping, I'll go with kerosene or propane lamps, til we can figure out something else.

Also, better have lots of journal notebooks handy and practice up on your penmanship.

I'm so old that, when I was learning to write cursive in school, we had to use ink-pens and dip them in ink wells. Probably not a bad idea, to have some Luddite technology on hand.


: ) Shech--

[MMe M]

You are much appreciated!~ I find myself contemplating methane every day lately. We all produce it and it sits there in the ground due to idiot regulations by local governments. People with dairy farms are using it to heat, power and also supply their neighbors with energy. Its the best alternative presentlyy I think. As long as were alive, we will be making it and so why not put it to use?


To the guy with the hydrogen idea, Its excellant but you must remember that hydrogen causes metals to harden, therefore making them brittle. I am not a molecular scientist but you can look it up. Its on this level that it hapens. The computer will adjust after so many miles I am told. Something like the change between ethanol and petrol.

[doodah]

Thank you, Baggy, once again. I understand the principle. But are those bladders made of plastic? Rubber? What?

Thanks.

[doodah]

Originally Posted by doodah

Thank you, Baggy, once again. I understand the principle. But are those bladders made of plastic? Rubber? What?

Thanks.

In answer to this question, I scroogled "methane bladders". Here's what I found:

Suitable materials for the bladder include reinforced gco-membrane materials such as XR-5® 8130 or XR-3® 8228 reinforced geo-membranes available from the Seaman Corporation, Wooster, Ohio, and reinforced geo-membranes from Cooley

geosynthetics

Geomembranes are made of various materials. Some common geomembrane materials are Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC), High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE), Low-Density Polyethylene (LDPE) and Polypropylene (PP).


"Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC). General Info. Center for Health, Environment and Justice: PVC: The Poison Plastic -- The Campaign for Safe, Healthy Consumer ..." www.ejnet.org/plastics/pvc/

High-Density Polyethylene (HDPE) -- "High-Density Polyethylene(HDPE) or PolyEthylene High-Density (PEHD) is a polyethylene thermoplastic made from petroleum. It takes 1.75 kilograms of ..." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDPE

Polypropylene (PP) -- polypropylene-pp petrochemicals, http://www.commodityonline.com/commo...opylene-pp.php

All these products are made from petroleum, which, according to my hundreds of hours of research, is probably the most poisonous substance on this planet -- not something I really want to take with me into the future. This gives pause for thought.

[whitecrow]

Consider building a Minto wheel. You can Google this...here's a site with good info: http://www.eagle-research.com/fenerg...to/minto1.html

This would make a great community project. Minto wheels turn slowly but develop incredible torque which is multiplied as the diameter of the wheel is increased. There is at least one YouTube video of a Minto wheel in operation, however this is a sloppily-built wheel that barely functions.

The secret, it appears to me, is to determine the optimum number of flasks at the circumference, and to pay close attention to the bearings and transmission that will convert torque to power. Not a perpetual motion machine, but close.

[333mark333]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

Our two largest challenges are pumping water and
refrigeration.

My preferred solutions would be a water tower, a steam
engine, and biogas.

I'm aware of several dairy operations that generate huge
amounts of biogas and convert it into electricity. There
is a Hutterite community in Northern Alberta that sells
excess biogas generated electricity to the local grid.

As far as lighting goes. We've started using strontium based phospholuminescent tape

Check this out.



http://www.identi-tape.com/phosphor.htm
These techniques can work. No pie in the sky here, and
steam is tried and true; a perfected technology.

That tape looks interesting- may use that up here. Thanks

Originally Posted by 333mark333

That tape looks interesting- may use that up here. Thanks

You can also find it as paint. This is a technology waiting
to happen. Entire floors or walls of this stuff. They are
making fireman's plastic hardhats with it to make them
easy to see in a smoke filled room.

In the first five minutes it is almost bright enough to read
by. Then it lingers visibly to the night adjusted eye for
12 hours or more.

We live in the country. Pitch black at night. We put
three small tabs of tape on each of our stairs. At night
it lights up like an airport runway. Fumbling in the dark
for the light switch? Never again.

Ever lost your car in a dark parking lot?

[Operator]

Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle

You can also find it as paint. This is a technology waiting
to happen. Entire floors or walls of this stuff. They are
making fireman's plastic hardhats with it to make them
easy to see in a smoke filled room.

In the first five minutes it is almost bright enough to read
by. Then it lingers visibly to the night adjusted eye for
12 hours or more.

We live in the country. Pitch black at night. We put
three small tabs of tape on each of our stairs. At night
it lights up like an airport runway. Fumbling in the dark
for the light switch? Never again.

Hi,

It sounds very powerful but I was wondering if strontium isn't a radio active isotope ? So I am not sure if it's completely
safe for your health and the environment. Is there any info coming along with this product ?

I was also wondering how the steam generator was powered ... the clip does not show what it used as fuel.

A steam powered generator may work very well in my case. There's lots of bio mass waste to burn in close vicinity.
And I have created a parabolic mirror once to boil water using solar power. Very effective ... you don't even need that much sunlight.

Cheers

[Operator]

B.t.w. Baggywrinkle,

Were you talking about a water tower before ?

I may have an idea for you:
if you vaporize water using whatever fuel you have available or the solar power I just mentioned in my previous post
it will rise upward by itself. Then you condense it on a higher level ....
That may work to lift water a couple of feet up

Cheers

[sunnyrap]

most photoluminesent problems have to store light from another lightsource--is this tape that type or is it truly self-luminating, like the chemical filled straws that are sold at fairs? (and they fizzle out after a while...)

Originally Posted by sunnyrap

most photoluminesent problems have to store light from another lightsource--is this tape that type or is it truly self-luminating, like the chemical filled straws that are sold at fairs? (and they fizzle out after a while...)

Strontium and europium, along with zinc oxide compounds all store ambient light, then release it over time. The advantage of the first two is the amount of light released and duration of release blow the older zinc compounds out of the water.

Everyone has had a watch with luminous hands. It was
great for perhaps and hour or two, then barely visible.
The new compounds are BRIGHT all night long
to the night adjusted eye.

Strontium and europium are not self luminating and are not radioactive like
tritium or radium.

[sunnyrap]

Reading your post tweaked my brain about something I read sometime back...about dual, even triple sources of energy generating. In a boat, you have solar, wind and hydro. Meaning, you can have a series of small paddlewheels churning up electricity and sending it to your batteries even as the wind moves the vessel and the solar panels suck down energy...

I just listened to Cliff (C2C HalfPastHuman interview) say he was building a big boat. 3/4 of the planet is water. Plenty of all energy sources out there, and food, and water (assuming you have desalination capability).

Not sure any of this matters if you get caught in a tsunami...how do you guys propose to handle big bad weather, of which there is plenty forecast?

Just thinking out loud, here...

[Aisuru Chiku]

I hope this will help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E41v...eature=related

Originally Posted by doodah

Looking for creative ideas here1

So that leaves? Anybody with true alternative energy ideas out there?
.

Oil lamps burn brite with vegetable oil
But what you have against solar power?

Or do like the old days...

Get up with the Sun, go to bed when it gets dark

Originally Posted by doodah

Candles -- old fashioned way, made from beeswax, but that's HONEYBEES, in short supply. New way is Parafin, but that's an oil derivative, petroleum. I don't want to support that industry in any way.

How about supporting the farmers then?

SOY WAX

http://www.cajuncandles.com/soy-wax.html

[sunnyrap]

Most solutions discussed here are on a personal level. I think it would be more productive to think on a community level. We have an existing setup that has worked quite well. How can your part of the grid be set up to keep giving power to the community? Where's your power coming from now? How can at least a percentage of it be kept up, should be the question, imo. I liked 'Mad Max' movies too, for the adventure of it, but I'd like them to stay interesting movies, not become real life.

[doodah]

Zorgon, thanks. I was referring to the George Green/Bill Deagle/Michael St. Claire statements about electromagnetic disturbances, or changes, which I called "flux" in a non-scientific manner, that would inactivate all currently designed electrical devices, an EMP-type event produced by the movement of our planet through what they are calling "energetic space," or some call a "photon belt", as this planet approaches galactic center.

Right, Leedskallen tapped sound energy. I don't know how the acoustic levitation chamber works, but does it require common era design electrical devices? Leedskallen certainly had electrical power available to him, through the power grid, although I don't know if he used that. Makes me wonder how the Egyptians might have generated the sound they used. Chanting is not a thing I associate with ancient Egyptian culture, but who knows?

The point in discussing Tesla, Leedskallen, and Moray, etc., is to toss around some ideas about whether these non-standard approaches can be used in some way by non-scientific folk like most of us on this thread appear to be. If the grid goes down, and most motors and currently existing electrical devices won't work anyhow no matter how they're powered, I'd like to have some alternatives in place. Methane is an available alternative that can produce heat and light.

Re candles and supporting the farmers: I asked this question further up the thread: You buy up lots of candles and use them up. Then what? How do you make soy wax? I'm not aware that vegetable oils were a common product in earlier cultures, except maybe olive oil. That's why they used lard, animal fat, whale oil, for similar purposes, such as oil lamps. This is still do-able to some extent if animal fat is kept and stored for that purpose.

Sunnyrap: I guess I have been thinking in terms of the smallholder, and that perhaps individual residences having their own sources of power might be more doable than huge power grids in future small communities. Cities will be a problem from every angle.

[Realview]

For daytime use -- there's a guy (I think on You tube) that effectively lights his home but poking clear liter water bottles (full of water and some chlorine) through the roof and letting them hand down half way. Kind of like the solar tubes or sky lights. Not sure what happens when it rains but the water magnifies the light and it works pretty good.

Other than that, I suppose a large mirrors like in the old Egyptian tomb movies or lots of windows or setup your kitchen near the windows or cook outside under a canopy.

At night crank or shake flash lights?

There are various generator systems but they require research, the right skills and time.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zlinM1wAI5U
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tKuHFNQCMto

That's all I've got.

[SamWhiteHopi]

Zilch electricity required. Appropriate depending on the climate and water availablity:

Clay Pot Fridge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pot-in-pot_refrigerator

How to make one. http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Pot-in-a-Pot-Refrigerator

Very humid here in the NT of Australia six months of the year. But gonna give this a try during the dry season.

[EarthBowl]

SOLAR Cooking

Here is a link to site that have info on solar ovens. You dont need to buy one... you can use a cardboard box and aluminum foil to make one. no electricity needed!
http://www.solarcooking.org/plans/
If you have the money....... and want a longer lasting option
http://www.eartheasy.com/sun_oven.htm

I think you could make a more permanent oven using that silver (aluminun?) flashing they use on roofs...

[Carmen]

My family and friends are planning to build a mini hydro. It will supply three houses and the excess will be fed back into the national grid and we be paid for what we feed back into the grid. Hopefully this will pay for the scheme and for maintenance. My house is the only one that is on the grid currently. I also have to rearrange my house to make it more energy efficient.

Cheers

Carmen

[Carol]

A well know chef told me about this book which I ordered from amazon. The author of this book lives in Florida and was without electricity for weeks.

The Storm Gourmet: A Guide to Creating Extraordinary Meals Without Electricity (Paperback) $9.95

This book proves that, with a little planning and minimal effort, you can eat surprisingly well during power outages. In hurricane season, this book is a crucial resource. It can be used for any emergency or anytime you are without power. And you can use this book for quick, easy meals anytime, especially for camping or for quick summer meals. You will find shopping lists for creating the ultimate emergency pantry; more than 70 recipes using nonperishable and shelf-stable food items; suggested menus for quick, well-balanced meals; a practical guide to growing a storm-proof herb garden; advice, tips, and anecdotes about weathering the storm. The 12-page color insert displays the colorful and appetizing—yes, gourmet!—meals that can be prepared from canned goods with some fresh ingredients.

The Storm Gourmet: A Guide To Creating Extraordinary Meals Without Electricity is a unique cookbook to creating nutritious gourmet meals without a heat source or refrigeration. A valuable resource for when power is down, when one is without a refrigerator, or simply when one wants to use less energy, The Storm Gourmet is packed with shopping lists for the ideal emergency pantry, more than 70 recipes using nonperishable and shelf-stable food items, suggested menus for balanced meals, a guide to growing a storm-proof herb garden, and tips for weathering storms. Dishes to prepare include Greek-style Bean Salad, Savory Ham with Dijon Cream, Black Forest Tarts, Mock Sangria, and much more. An index for quick and easy reference complements this excellent guide to living healthy and well under simple conditions.

[Carol]

Another couple items worth having on hand are these camper type gas stove and gas oven.

$229.99 Camp Chef Outdoor Camp Oven
Item:IK-518463


This Camp Oven has just what every camp needs to enjoy superior eating in the outdoors – compact size, portability and raw cooking power. Don't let its compact size fool you. The Outdoor Camp Oven features more than 14,000 total BTU of cooking energy. Twin burners and a spacious oven have plenty of power to get your cooking/baking done the way you like it, right there in camp. The unit uses a disposable 1-lb. propane tank, or it can be adapted to use a 20-lb. tank for increased cooking time. The range's dual burners put out a whopping 5,300 BTU per burner. The oven heats at 3,500 BTU per hour with a maximum temperature of 400°F. Two oven racks allow you to cook your main meal and dessert at once. An oven thermometer helps keep heat constant and monitors your meal's cooking progress. The matchless burner igniters mean you won't have to fumble for a lighter or matches while in the field. The stove's folding lid and carry handles were designed with portability in mind, so it's easy to get into and out of camp. Stainless steel construction resists corrosion for years of cooking without problems. Nonstick enamel cooking surface makes cleaning swift and easy with just soap and water.
Top burner dimensions: 12" x 21".
Oven dimensions: 16"W x 11"D x 8-1/4"H.
Weight: 35 lbs.


and

Gas Stove Propane Range Three Burners
Item# 11815
$46.99
http://store.homevillage.us
Dimensions: 31" x 12" x 4"

Three Burners


and

Gas Stove Propane Range Three Burners
Item# 11815
$46.99
http://store.homevillage.us
Dimensions: 31" x 12" x 4"

Three Burners
http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/yhst-86980199984851_2052_2338
Sturdy Construction.
You may use any standard propane tank, you can use a BBQ tank or larger.
Company: Home Village
Free Shipping