Nordics

[Carol]

I'm curious as to your source of information regarding the above statement.

[Sol Invictus]

Originally Posted by Carol

I'm curious as to your source of information regarding the above statement.

Well now. My source.

A being made entirely of light photons which is both sentinent and able to do many, many things we as humans would attribute to 'Angels'. Sentinent is a derogatory word when applied to these beings. Four steps removed from the 'Creator' would be a better way of putting it.

In short, I should of been an abductee had they not interceded on my behalf. That was the start of the process 15 years ago of building my understanding of just how mental this world really is, and how many layers it stacks up to make what we blithley call 'reality'.

It also showed me that this universe is one of 128 in our 'gigaverse', and our gigaverse rides on a double helix structure of trillions of other gigaverses in an eternal cycle of rise and fall.

[Carol]

Why is it I'm not surprised. Michau Kaku describes the multi-verse as multi-dimensional much like layers of pages of a book pressed together.

I was gifted with several spontanious spiritual journeys that took me into these various spiritual realms.

Your story sounds wonderous. Perhaps some time you will share more.

[StClair]

What she describes, and it shows in her eyes in the interview, is a "program" (perhaps a holographic projection) because it is known that the Greys can pose as another race.

She was quite evidently abducted by the Greys, and what she describes is a very uncomfortable encounter with the Greys. They deceive people. We know in our DNA not to trust the Greys no matter how they appear in form.

I did not want to say the obvious at first, and I am glad clakkent found the passages in her work to draw your attention to what many others have noticed immediately when watching the interview.

Again, I would like to suggest that those interested in all this read the book "Operation Trojan Horse" by John A. Keel who explains the entire phenomenon in a very level-headed manner.

The real "Nordics" do not abduct people against their wish on to crafts or stuff like that, this is not how they work, and the contact level is completely different and via telepathy. They can also (rarely) appear among people and pass in broad daylight for earth humans.

Usually the "contact" in form of guidance is from their crafts to some of us via an inner seeing. At least that is my experience. With the 3rd eye you can see (sense) the presence of their crafts.

I hope this helps see clearer in the confusion.

[Carol]

StClair, you're up late.

I've wondered about this as most of the positive expereinces involve an invitation, free will, conscious awareness, total recall, no false memory screens and so forth. There is a free exchange of info.

On the other side is the opposite pheonomen. Screen memories, deception, taken against ones will, memory blocked and so on.

I have always felt when there is not a mutual exchange of info, the one holding back is not operating to the good of the other. These grays decieve and cannot be trusted. They are associated with other aliens who feed off of negative emotions and some are just biological robots as well.

I like Alex Collier's description of the aliens he had stayed with for 3 months. It seems his was a very positive experience indeed.

[Sol Invictus]

Let me descirbe the shukra for you. The name 'shukra' is a derogatory term which means 'they who shun the light'.

They really are the darkest form of being. They live and operate in a self sustaining 'hive', with a very harsh caste system or heirachy.

The smallest beings are 'workers', the larger more yellow skinned are 'Dr's', the reptil looking ones are the 'enforcers of will', the heavy almost armoured ones are soldiers to protect the hive, and then you have another layer of small shukra who keep order within the hive.

Unlike the insectoid race they were genetically spliced from, their 'leader' is sterile and a small number of tanks and holding pens are where they 'breed'.

In short, they are a biological 'machine' which is blindly carrying out its intended purpose of subjugating the gigaverse.

However, they are at this very minute getting seven layers of s### kicked out of them.

I'll explain another time about that, but its very heartening indeed to know we have some very strong allies keeping watch over us.

[halebox]

Are there many black abductees? Black and white=Grey

[Sol Invictus]

Originally Posted by halebox

Are there many black abductees? Black and white=Grey

was that worth the effort to even type? I mean come on, you used glucose up that could of been put to better use.

[halebox]

Originally Posted by Sol Invictus

was that worth the effort to even type? I mean come on, you used glucose up that could of been put to better use.

The 1st question was honest Ive not heard of any black abductees have you? The second part was loosley based on the future human nazi types becoming nordics and the mix breeders eventually becoming greys.

[Richard T]

I find that ClarkKent is tackling this intelligently. If opposed, he does not turn the table around with one liners of the type (so are you), which brings nothing to the table and reduces the vibration of a conversation instead of going further.

People have not realized yet that you can discover a lot when talking outside of the thinking box. Actually, more can be discovered this way than by nearly any other means, short of being directly and consciously plugged to a systemic entity.

Humanity is still quite susceptible to concepts of superiority. And, of course most of the time, we feel good when it is our own who is recognized as having a plus. We all know the idea behind flattery.

Eugenics is a normal procedure in the universe. It is no great matter to a race who knows not death to seek and evolve the material vehicle it uses. Such a race has no attachment to the form, it creates the form.

We, on the other hand, are captive of the form, we identify to the form, so the form has become sacred.

There are more than one way to consider a concept of 'royalty'.
The first one is obviously the concept that comes with the word itself and is historically based.
But words are forms that carry a vibration. They are a mode of transport for spirit.

And out of the vibration, which those intelligences have not been willing to express directly and without the use of words that allow interpretation, out of that vibration comes the recognition of the origin of the spirit of man.
And that origin is extremely advanced.
This cannot be obvious just looking at the current state of humankind, I know.
But what the full recognition of this does is remove the need of an individual to prove himself, to elevate himself at the expense of others, and to stick to the false identity that supports his existence as a psychological persona.

We don't need to be told the obvious by aliens, to paraphrase ClarkKent.
But we can examine what stating the obvious does to psychology.

For one, it reinforces human concepts. It give them a sort of 'higher' validating reference point.
Then, it increases the impression of being right, creating the illusion that we already are somewhere, when we have not even started our evolutionary path yet.
In doing so, the third thing that happens is that the contactee surrenders his own intelligence to the perceived superiority of the visitor.
Finaly, strong of his impression of being in the truth of the matter, he goes onto a mission.

I am certain that any person who is given a mission, or that gives himself a mission, regardless of the apparent positive or negative impressions of those who receive the 'teachings' is hired by forces that seek to manipulate humanity into its weaknesses.

What I mean by this is that they reinforce weaknesses using the resonance of positive vs negative, some sort of good cop bad cop scenario.

One aspect that never filters through is their actual agenda.

No one is going to make me believe that they come to deliver a message.

At best, they are preparing humanity to their presence, knowing that most would not stand the shock without having first been fed platitudes.

At worst, they are helping humanity remain longer in their ignorance.

I certainly have no interest for running naked in the field with flowers between my teeth.

Originally Posted by Richard T

Eugenics is a normal procedure in the universe. It is no great matter to a race who knows not death to seek and evolve the material vehicle it uses. Such a race has no attachment to the form, it creates the form.

We, on the other hand, are captive of the form, we identify to the form, so the form has become sacred.

There are more than one way to consider a concept of 'royalty'.
The first one is obviously the concept that comes with the word itself and is historically based.
But words are forms that carry a vibration. They are a mode of transport for spirit.

"The investigation of human eugenics, that is, of the conditions under which men of a high type are produced." [Galton, "Human Faculty," 1883]

The problem there is who gets to decide the definition of "men of a high type." I believe the Nazis used Eugenics as part of their aryan superman ideology, and look where that took them spiritually- grotesque experiments on 'lesser races,' the holocaust etc.

The body IS a vehicle for the spirit. I don't believe the 'quality' of the body determines the 'quality' of the spirit any more than I believe blonde hair and blue eyes are an indication of 'high type.' CK pointed out that Miriam left out of the Camelot interview the part about being controlled and the surgery she suffered without her consent at the hands of these blonde haired, blue eyed superbeings.

Still, I'm sure they're telling the truth and only have our best interests at heart. I'm sure they don't have their own agenda at all.


sa·cred (skrd)
adj.
1. Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity.
2. Worthy of religious veneration: the sacred teachings of the Buddha.
3. Made or declared holy: sacred bread and wine.
4. Dedicated or devoted exclusively to a single use, purpose, or person: sacred to the memory of her sister; a private office sacred to the President.
5. Worthy of respect; venerable.
6. Of or relating to religious objects, rites, or practices.


Nowhere in there does it say anything about 'perfect' or 'high type.' WE are sacred REGARDLESS of what shape or colour the body is. You can dress eugenics up any way you like but IMO it's nothing more than intellectual camoflague for nazi master race bull***t.


Edit- Sorry, missed this definition of sacred:

3. regarded as too important to be changed or interfered with

[clarkkent]

i was just thinking today, no matter what we think we know we are limited by our 3D worldview and still dont except that its literally (from what i know) impossible to leave a human 3D perspective.

putting things in "good" and "bad" is a natural thing, when really there is no such thing. the point of life is to exist and that means survive and evolve.

we need a yin for our yang.

thats why the idea (as much as i like it) of "of light beings/pure love" doesnt resonate. im sure there are beings we would deem positive and or negative which are both relative terms. one isnt better than the other--which isnt to say that there arent what we'd see as "benevolent" beings but to say the whole universe ALL good from this evolutionary point on doesnt make sense. lambs sheep deer and geese arent "good" just because they dont kill eachother, nor are lions,tigers and bears "oh my" ...they arent "bad" because they do rip a rabbit to shreds. both are in balance. is the grass "good" because it doesnt harm the deer? or is the deer "bad" because it destroys the grass? again theyre neither they simply "are" and work together, energy always fluctuating and being transformed...

if we are consciousness and we get to experience the totality of reality then that means EVERYTHING is valid, a peice of poo to a great work of art to a supernova. from a "grey" or a nazi or anything else.

anyhow im off topic, its taken me a while to immerse my self in "alien/gov black ops, multi dimesional reality" etc. frankly i only started to investigate this phenomena since june/july when i heard the edgar mitchell news and freaked out. it was the coolest (for lack of a better word) news id heard basically in my life.

ive gone from being an agnostic/atheist to believing in a "universal mind" and re incarnation. and for all i know im sure these concepts are inherently kindergarten level at best given all that is impossible to understand.

i know our civilization is at an apex and ive always felt i would see some cosmic sized activity go down. im only still just beginning to understand how convoluted and difficult this whole subject is, all my threads and posts are just to inject a heavy dose of looking "outside the box" as richard said, which is VERY difficult. but if you always look at WHO is saying WHAT-- and what they can GET out of leading you to think that.

and considering the multi dimensional aspect and the bazzilion different time lines scenario and co creation , getting "YOU" to "THINK" a certain way is probably more important than YOU THINK.

thanks for everyones input in this thread.

you can look at this way also, would you ever like to be kidnapped by unknown people in a stange car with no plates on it?

if i would encounter these 'nordics' i would ask why they disguise themselves cause this surely gives a wrong impression on a level of honesty towards strangers.

at least they could explain why they are taking you and making you do things without your own control over it.

but in most cases there is no Q&A allowed.

the "we won't hurt you and we are your family" is the same kind of trick were children get abducted with, here is some candy now will you follow me?

[Morgan]

Originally Posted by clarkkent

anyhow im off topic, its taken me a while to immerse my self in "alien/gov black ops, multi dimesional reality" etc. frankly i only started to investigate this phenomena since june/july when i heard the edgar mitchell news and freaked out. it was the coolest (for lack of a better word) news id heard basically in my life.

ive gone from being an agnostic/atheist to believing in a "universal mind" and re incarnation. and for all i know im sure these concepts are inherently kindergarten level at best given all that is impossible to understand.

Ditto - for whatever reason my interest came to the ET/2012/err, 4D stuff in late spring, I was absolute atheist too and now it's all so crazy!

Originally Posted by clarkkent

and considering the multi dimensional aspect and the bazzilion different time lines scenario and co creation , getting "YOU" to "THINK" a certain way is probably more important than YOU THINK.

It was milk and honey's post that made something click in my brain... RE: virtually all friendly (and unfriendly?) ET encounters being black ops and/or neg ET's. That would be really something. Suppose that's the case, and all this information we're being fed, about coming horrors and earth changes and doom, doom, doom... What if these are NOT ACTUALLY ON THE TIMELINE?! And yet, since we are co-creators, by creating this sense of impending doom, getting everyone out there to believe and focus on such things, implant the sense of urgency all around...

This gets us to cause the events ourselves, whether it be co-creating or self-fulfilling prophecy or manipulating or placing limits on the boundaries of our imaginations, etc. In this way, there is no free will violation no matter what happens. We've essentially consented and/or created the events ourselves.

So maybe that's what you were getting at there, clarkkent? Or maybe not

[Richard T]

Hello Sunrunner.

The body is indeed a vehicle. And vehicles have their limitations and restrictions.
Just imagine a car windows size and the view it allows, its engine power, its aerodynamics, the energy it uses. Then imagine a jet aircraft, then a submarine, then a vehicle capable of functioning outside of the athmosphere, and so on.

The material human body is perfect. It does not need to evolve anymore but its vibration must be changed so that the model it represents can be directly exported to other planes of reality, There is an invisible reality behind the obvious material shell.

The body does not define the origin of the spirit who invests it. So it is not simply a matter of believing that a better body, engineered for a particular function, is representative of a higher intelligence because the form agree with a particular perception of aesthetics.

A point of view that is based on an agenda of domination necessarily proceeds from a hierarchy that is based on domination.

As for sacredness,
Nothing sacred will be left ountouched.

[777 The Great Work]

Originally Posted by Richard T

Hello Sunrunner.

The body is indeed a vehicle. And vehicles have their limitations and restrictions.
Just imagine a car windows size and the view it allows, its engine power, its aerodynamics, the energy it uses. Then imagine a jet aircraft, then a submarine, then a vehicle capable of functioning outside of the athmosphere, and so on.

The material human body is perfect. It does not need to evolve anymore but its vibration must be changed so that the model it represents can be directly exported to other planes of reality, There is an invisible reality behind the obvious material shell.

The body does not define the origin of the spirit who invests it. So it is not simply a matter of believing that a better body, engineered for a particular function, is representative of a higher intelligence because the form agree with a particular perception of aesthetics.

A point of view that is based on an agenda of domination necessarily proceeds from a hierarchy that is based on domination.

As for sacredness,
Nothing sacred will be left ountouched.

Man is in process of changing to forms that are not of this world. Grows he in time to the formless, a plane on the cycle above. Know ye, ye must become formless before ye are one with the Light.

we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,. in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,. at the last trumpet; ...

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Richard T

The material human body is perfect. It does not need to evolve anymore but its vibration must be changed so that the model it represents can be directly exported to other planes of reality, There is an invisible reality behind the obvious material shell.

I don't believe the human body is perfect or that beauty is a mere relative perception of aesthetics. The perfection of symmetry and form is a divine idea but not because i say so. Nevertheless an 'imperfect' human body is adequate to it's purpose and as you suggest, it can be vibrationally perfected or spiritualised. The body is adequate for the experience we need including spiritual self- realisation. And whether or not the body is 'perfect', a vibrationally perfected soul can leave it behind at death and move into higher planes never to return to the physical plane. I realise you're saying that too.

Originally Posted by Richard T

The body does not define the origin of the spirit who invests it. So it is not simply a matter of believing that a better body, engineered for a particular function, is representative of a higher intelligence because the form agree(s) with a particular perception of aesthetics.

That's an important point. That's what the "aliens" are constantly harping on to justify their interference and their brave new world of genetic engineering of the human race. That is how desperate the power elite are to bend our minds to their version of the future. They have to wrap their scheme in an "alien savior" scenario to gain our compliance and willing participation.

Although the human body has genetically deteriorated over the ages the body is still adequate for spiritual self- realisation. It is our spiritual and genetic 'adequacy' which i believe is most threatening to forces who would if they could, engineer those capacities out of the human race (to an even greater extent) and replace them with mere psychic (not spiritual) endowments and physical beauty. And you can be sure that even physical beauty would be rationed in a 'brave new world' in order to produce sub- races and therefore subservient underclasses.

At one time on Atlantis -- according to the Edgar Cayce readings -- the underclass were called "things". They were humans with tail like appendages and webbed hands and feet and feathers on some parts of the body. They were considered sub-human and used as slaves. They were the product of scientists playing god with human /animal hybridisation. The same technology is here today and perhaps similar and even worse hybrids are being produced. History repeats... if we buy it.

Originally Posted by Richard T

A point of view that is based on an agenda of domination necessarily proceeds from a hierarchy that is based on domination.

That makes sense and i see you are not saying that a helpful hierarchy does not exist.

But i sometimes hear the suggestion that 'hierarchy' is a concept ONLY of domination ... ie, that it's sole origin is in the limited 'reptillian brain' and therefore has no basis in reality. But i believe that is a false assertion calculated to provoke a dismissive attitude against the true universal hierarchy of spiritual beings.

We were created. The spiritual beings that created us (in their spiritual image) were themselves created. And the spiritual beings that created them were created also... And so on... ad infinitum. All spiritual beings in the universal hierarchy are in a continual state of growth and creativity. That includes pro-creativity which means that we too may eventually grow into beings capable of spiritually replicating ourselves.

That is the true hierarchy of which we are all a part. The hierarchy which you refer to and which Michael St Clair refers to, i prefer to call the 'false hierarchy' which exists in opposition to the true hierarchy of spiritual beings that i mentioned. The negative hierarchy of controlling, dominating beings is active in the physical and astral planes and people on earth are a part of it according to an inner alignment with it's objectives.

Power, sex, money and greed drive humans to feed it's 'black hole' proportioned appetite. And many who seem to be it's antithesis are also a part of the same beast. Vibration determines membership, not the outer forms which they hide behind, many of which are attractive to the human ego. The 'false hierarchy' have no conscious connection to source and therefore have no primary spiritual energy. So they must be sustained by a secondary source which is our blood (our lifeforce) until we turn off the faucet by awareness and the self discipline of our energies.

The true hierarchy does exist and i wanted to point out the difference between their nurturing, loving service to this world and the domineering, deceptive, service to self orientation of the false hierarchy which itself has no foundation in reality. Once we withdraw our energy from the beast -- starting with our own subconscious beast -- the false hierarchy will collapse into it's native nothingness.

[Argante]

Originally Posted by halebox

The 1st question was honest Ive not heard of any black abductees have you? The second part was loosley based on the future human nazi types becoming nordics and the mix breeders eventually becoming greys.

Actually, one of the first abduction stories I ever heard involved a black man, Barney Hill.

Betty and Barney Hill Abduction




.

[LadyGolfer]

Hello Clark, I would like to respond to your post as somehow I seem compelled to do so. The astericks are your statements....my own statements follow yours with a dash.

*ill also add that alex said the beings he was in contact with view us as "genetic royalty"- was this wording from alex or was it an exact quote from the beings?

*if a being is advanced and "enlightened" im 100% they wouldnt view ANYTHING as royalty. and the ideas of war in space dont make sense either, look at our stage of development with nukes and now scalar tech,drones,bio-weapons, etc---- dont you think beings thousands,millions,billions years ahead of us technologically would be able to obliterate an enemy or a world in the blink of an eye?- We are all One but realize that "your" 100% is exactly that, "yours". As for beings that are technologically ahead of us, why would they want to obliterate an "enemy" as you state, your wording not mine because there is such a thing as free will to decide what choices we all make, and the thought that every species in space is exactly the same in their technological advances or thought processes is IMO not considering all aspects but a blanket statement on your part.

^i think we are projecting our own limited scope of understanding and quantifying things in ways we can understand- just like when they said god was an old man with a white beard
-are you not doing just that?

*quantum physics points to multi-dimensional existence- I agree with this statement

*TRUE contact is extreeeeemely rare- How would you personally "know" this to be fact?

*my opinion is that any contactee speaking to aliens from a "galactic federation" or "council of light" with a bunch of recycled egyptian names, who's message is to write books that .001% of the population reads, and that who's sole content is that we are destructive and that we shouldnt be is being manipulated - What would the percentage of population reading it have to do with its accuracy? How did you get your percentage data? Was it given to you from some other source or did you do a study and crunch the numbers yourself? IMO I would think that what the majority is reading would be more of the manipulations.
*its manipulation to turn ET's into a kind of messianic religion that teaches how to be in balance and not destroy the planet- Why are statements regarding being in balance and not to destroy the planet a manipulation? Is this not something that certain people feel themselves? Is this not a positive statement as opposed to the beginning of your own statement "it's manipulation"

*the idea of "oneness" and that everything is conscioussess(consciousness) and that we are all connected is something we are collectively starting to understand.- I agree with this portion of the statement.

*my advice is to use serious discernment- I agree

*your(you're) free to think that- that is the beauty of free will, everyone is free to choose their own path, however I must say that the tone in your statements seem to belittle those that choose a different path from yourself....just my own observation.

Originally Posted by clarkkent

ill also add that alex said the beings he was in contact with view us as "genetic royalty"

this should tip you off that you should use some common sense.


someone posted a good saying "the best lie is hidden between two truths"

its manipulation to turn ET's into a kind of messianic religion that teaches how to be in balance and not destroy the planet.


we dont need aliens to tell us the obvious and science is coming closer to spirituality everyday with quantum mechanics and the idea of "oneness" and that everything is conscioussess and that we are all connected is something we are collectively starting to understand, and it wasnt because some aliens made some random people write books in the new age section at barnes and nobles.

believing that benevolent blue eyed beautiful nazi ET's that use mind control and erase your free will to serve them as well as use invasive surgery and have robo-grey slaves is up to you. if there evening news message of "head for the hills be afraid, be very afraid" or that our planet can only support 300 million people (straight from george greens pleiadians) and that depopulation HAS to happen, is up to you. my advice is to use serious discernment and not eat up every contactee/abductee that fits the prevailing paradigm.

personally i find it funny that all those messages and techniques fall in line with the illuminati's ideas (hiding from the catastrophy/mind control/fear to rule/de population/white master race)

if ALL that just seems like a wacky coincidence then your free to think that.

i know this isnt the thrust at avalon but i hope some contrary ideas wont upset the goal and mission statement. bill has stated that you can always go elsewhere, hopefully i wont have to.

You make a lot of good points there. Just to be clear, I don't claim to have the answers. That's why I'm asking questions. I certainly don't believe in messiahs of ANY description, and I don't believe in the head-for-the-hills fear based mindset either.

And I don't believe in coincidences, wacky or otherwise.

Edit- to removed unneccesary parts of the quote

[isotelesis]

Royalty in the sense that unlike many varieties of life forms out there, our creation was probably intended to be a means of karmic consolidation, obviously there is a lot of genetic memory to work through.

The methods in which they seek to improve the stock of the human gene pool have been quite idealistic, certainly lacking a proper appreciation for the holographic aspects of reproduction. In order to produce a truly viable species for the long term, we must learn to value multi-talented individuals, to become more like packs of wolves rather than castrated domesticated canines.

Therefore a true eugenicist is not a farmer which isolates animals into particular breeds for intended tasks, but seeks the best traits of the various types, creating a human which has the strengths of them all.

Thank you for sharing that MT. I've seen a lot of the DP interviews, they were what led me (physically at least) into this area, and I have a lot of respect for all the people involved.

Blessings

Edit- to remove quote

[clarkkent]

let me state, that im not claiming to have all the answers...i might come to my own conclusions. and for all i know st clair is right (about his overall view -radiant zones and such)

my statements are my own observations about ufology and the idea of REAL possible manipulation and super confusion regarding all this phenomena.

what st clair said (eventhough i might disagree with him sometimes) points to
that we should ALWAYS use our intuition and discernment. if what he says is true, then miriam has been manipulated which in turn meant bill and kerry were as well and then passed that manipulation unknowingly over to half the population here.

which means that in this sea of truth and manipulation its imperative to use ones own BS meter. and im sorry if when im using mine it comes off as judgemental for those who believe otherwise. my opinion is in the minority so i usually just state it as a counter argument with out qualifying every statement as "this is what i think, its not a fact"

but with that in mind if it gets you questioning or using you "gut" then thats not a bad thing.

again my opinion.

[Seva]

Yep all comes down to how well you can hear and then trust your own inner voice.

Originally Posted by clarkkent

let me state, that im not claiming to have all the answers...i might come to my own conclusions. and for all i know st clair is right (about his overall view -radiant zones and such)

my statements are my own observations about ufology and the idea of REAL possible manipulation and super confusion regarding all this phenomena.

what st clair said (eventhough i might disagree with him sometimes) points to
that we should ALWAYS use our intuition and discernment. if what he says is true, then miriam has been manipulated which in turn meant bill and kerry were as well and then passed that manipulation unknowingly over to half the population here.

which means that in this sea of truth and manipulation its imperative to use ones own BS meter. and im sorry if when im using mine it comes off as judgemental for those who believe otherwise. my opinion is in the minority so i usually just state it as a counter argument with out qualifying every statement as "this is what i think, its not a fact"

but with that in mind if it gets you questioning or using you "gut" then thats not a bad thing.

again my opinion.

[milk and honey]

Originally Posted by Martian Tigress

I work as a volunteer for the Disclosure Project, so I have had the good fortune to hear some of the witnesses' stories in person. Interestingly, they pretty much all say the same thing: scary, controlling abductions are secret-government/military operations to insure that contactees stay terrorized and that non-contactees shy away from the whole contact issue.

There is a big problem with this neat partition into "scary, controlling abductions = secret gov/black ops VS positive, supportive encounters = real friendly ETs." It fails to acknowledge that secret gov/black operators AND extraterrestrials can BOTH deceptively present themselves as "friendly ETs". These account for virtually ALL friendly encounters in my opinion.

Also there has likely been joint alien/human societies underground for ages and these are likely in league with surface secret gov't forces. For all these reasons i am very wary of three kinds of contactees.

1) Those who "protesteth too much" about having NO military intelligence relationships... ala Miriam.

2) Those who emerge straight out the bowels of deep black intelligence groups to blow their whistles. I suspect that they and others who talk about "my friends in CIA" etc will not bite too hard on the hand that feeds and protects them. And where is the discourse in the Disclosure Project about "ETs" and black gov't operators who deceptively present themselves as "concerned and helpful ETs"?

and 3) everyone else who is contacted by entities who proclaim themselves "extraterrestrial" as if that was the ultimate credential to prove their spiritual ID and orientation. It is not.

And who isn't an "extra-terrestrial" anyway. Every soul who incarnates on this planet is "extra-terrestrial" in the strictest sense of the word. No soul originates on planet earth. All are spiritual beings sojourning here in the cycles of time and space and all will eventually transcend the Earth to return to origin in the higher planes.

Originally Posted by Martian Tigress

They also say that while individual groups of Skypeople hold differing views on things, they are all peaceful, and interact peacefully with one another.

As Mandy Rice- Davies would have said .. "They would say that wouldn't they."

Just as i wouldn't jump to a conclusion that all ETs are evil, i also wouldn't be too quick to take friendly encounters at face value and conclude that friendly "ETs" (or earth-humans) are trustworthy just because they're friendly and powerful and knowledgable. Things are more complex and i'd like to see more acknowledgement of those complexities all round..... including in the analyses of Project Camelot and Disclosure Project interviews.

So this thread is a breath of fresh air.

The "powers that be" always seek to control the dialogue -- even in the most unlikely places -- and they always seek to control a "new paradigm" by presenting us with 2 false choices. There are many layers to that onion.