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Old 05-10-2009, 03:29 AM   #26
orthodoxymoron
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Default Re: Secrets of the Vatican

I found this interchange between Jordan Maxwell and Alex Jones to be very interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfMwK0kCccI. In this thread...I am not trying to blame the Catholics for all of the evil and destruction in the world. I am trying to get at what is behind many groups and individuals...which continues to divide and conquer us. In the recent Project Camelot interview with Joseph Farrell...he makes a comment regarding present day Germany...which seems to coincide with the Maxwell/Jones clip. I can't remember the details. Watch the interview...which is fantastic...and you'll notice it.

Here is a clip of Malachi Martin being interviewed by Art Bell(warning: the video is graphic and the subject is exorcism): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c91jUTGyNCQ. Here's another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Cq7...eature=related And another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Cq7gx22S0 This stuff is real. One last video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLp9x...eature=related. I don't agree with everything in this one...especially the part about the Pope going to hell. I don't believe in heaven and hell as historically presented...and I certainly don't know the heart of anyone.

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Old 05-10-2009, 04:47 AM   #27
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Check who's still around in Italy from the P2 days: PM Berlusconi!

Propaganda Due

P2 was sometimes referred to as a "state within a state"[2] or a "shadow government".[3] The lodge had among its members prominent journalists, parliamentarians, industrialists, and military leaders -- including the then-future Prime Minister *Silvio Berlusconi*; the Savoy pretender to the Italian throne Victor Emmanuel; and the heads of all three Italian intelligence services...

Italian Masonry had been outlawed by the fascist regime of Benito Mussolini, but was reborn after the Second World War under American influence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due
............................

Scandals / Banking / Italy

http://www.namebase.org/books53.html
Tosches, Nick. Power on Earth. New York: Arbor House, 1986. 290 pages.
DiFonzo, Luigi. St.Peter's Banker. New York: Franklin Watts, 1983. 308 pages.
Cornwell, Rupert. God's Banker. New York: Dodd, Mead & Co., 1983. 260 pages.
Gurwin, Larry. The Calvi Affair. London: Pan Books, 1984. 251 pages.

Four books in NameBase describe the 1970s Italian banking scandals: "Power on Earth" by Nick Tosches, "St.Peter's Banker" by Luigi DiFonzo, "God's Banker" by Rupert Cornwell, and "The Calvi Affair" by Larry Gurwin. The first two are about Michele Sindona, the last two about Roberto Calvi.

These scandals involved Sindona, Calvi, Pope Paul VI, Bishop Paul Marcinkus and the Vatican Bank, the Mafia, Licio Gelli and the P2 Lodge, Franklin National Bank, Banco Ambrosiano, and shell companies too numerous to mention. It's a story of international high finance and lavish lifestyles that Hollywood might reject as unrealistic: bank shares traded like baseball cards, blood oaths and *secret P2 membership* lists, Mafia hits, Italian intelligence agencies, terrorists, arms dealers, corruption at the highest levels, and even a faked kidnapping.

Sindona's empire was collapsing by 1974, and his protege Calvi's by 1978. In 1980 Sindona was convicted in the U.S. on 65 counts of fraud and was extradited to Italy in 1984, where two years later he was poisoned in his cell while serving a life sentence for murder. Calvi was convicted by an Italian court in 1981 of illegal currency transactions. He was found hanging from a London bridge the following year, possibly murdered, and $400 million is still missing.
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: Secrets of the Vatican

Thank you Orthodoxymoron for starting what I think is one of the most important threads. The infomation and links are very thought provoking. I am currently working my way through. There is much to think about and digest.
I need to take a long walk!
Love and peace
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Old 05-11-2009, 04:46 PM   #29
orthodoxymoron
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Thank-you no caste. There is plenty of dirt...if one wishes to dig. I can only stomach so much...and then I have to move on to more pleasant subjects.

golden lady: I'm glad you like the thread. It's sort of a necessary evil. I don't relish this subject...but it seems to be central to understanding how this world really works.

If you want to really dig...read 'Murder in the Vatican' by Lucien Gregoire...regarding the death of Pope John Paul I. This book really made my hair stand on end.
'In God's Name' by David Yallop is another book which will keep you awake at night...

To any practicing Roman Catholics: I'm not suggesting that you stop going to church...but I do think that being well informed is very important. Your local church and priests are probably a blessing to the community. It's just that I think there is a powerful dark side at the highest levels of the church...and that the visible church leaders may not be in ultimate control. I doubt that they are happy with the situation...but it may be nearly impossible to change things for the better. I think we are all in a lot of trouble.

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Old 05-22-2009, 06:38 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
If you want to really dig...read 'Murder in the Vatican' by Lucien Gregoire...regarding the death of Pope John Paul I. This book really made my hair stand on end. 'In God's Name' by David Yallop is another book which will keep you awake at night...
I was in London when John Paul I died in 1978. It was a big deal - rumours swirling immediately. Everybody was watching the Vatican smoke stack on TV. Then, we saw Cardinal Wojtyła (John Paul II) in Munich.

What I wanted to add, though, is that it must be very handy to do business with an organization that is tax free, if one's a back room kind of boy. The money laundering possibilities! I may pick up those books. I'm not Catholic, then or now, but I've been told by friends that my temperament is.

I don't know what that means!
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Old 05-22-2009, 02:11 PM   #31
orthodoxymoron
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Jesus drove the money changers out of the temple with a whip. Perhaps this needs to happen again...
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Old 05-22-2009, 04:39 PM   #32
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Now that's a solution I can get behind.
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:17 PM   #33
orthodoxymoron
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On a more positive note:

Sometimes I wonder if the cathedral architecture, organ design and music...is really from underground cathedrals. Reptilians are supposedly builders. Masons are builders. Hmmmm. According to biblical theology...Lucifer was the preeminent musician in heaven. Hmmmmm. As far as I know...they don't know who designed Chartres Cathedral. Imagine that! Sometimes I wonder if organists find music of unknown origin waiting for them when they arrive at the church to practice. Notice how complex and abstract the above music is. Have you ever seen the sheet music? I have some by Bach, Widor, Vierne, Dupre, etc. Devilishly difficult. We supposedly received religion and technology from the reptilians and greys. What else did we receive? The Vatican Library may contain the comprehensive answer to this question. The truth is in there. I'm not gonna say another word...


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Old 06-09-2009, 04:25 AM   #34
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What would happen if church services and masses were music only? No liturgy. No sermons. Just music...complete with organ, orchestra, choir, and congregation? The pastors and priests would be counselors...and would officiate at special services and ceremonies. There probably is not an easy answer. I am beginning to have a problem with the concept of worship and praise. It seems to me that this is what Lucifer aka Satan really wants and needs...and that the God of the Universe doesn't want or need this sort of thing at all. It makes me wonder who is really being worshipped and praised on Sun-God Day. I love the music, architecture, glory, and grandeur...but I am seeing a huge and fundamental problem. This applies to all churches...and not just the Roman Catholic Church. I don't go to church.

If I did go to church...and attended a Roman Catholic Church...I would probably consider myself to be a...Pope John Paul I, Bishop Fulton Sheen, Father Malachi Martin...Roman Catholic. Those who are in the know...in the Roman Catholic Church...really know. I would love to sit in a room full of Jesuits...and talk theology. Unfortunately...I might not make it out of there alive! They have a reputation...you know! I just hope that the dark forces can be converted or exorcised from the church...and the entire world. I continue to think that the Roman Catholic Church is a major part of the problem...and potentially a major part of the solution.

Please consider the following thread: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...=letter+church It touches on some of the issues raised in this thread...and contains many positive solutions.

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Old 06-17-2009, 06:18 PM   #35
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Some follow-up on Berlusconi's current troubles -

June 12, 2009
Angry wife blasts media - news clipping (Reuters, Metro)

The wife of Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said Thursday her reputation has been "muddied" by the media... Some media, including outlets controlled by 72-year-old Berlusconi's Mediaset group, responded with stories about the private life of Veronica, a former actress and his second wife.

May 28, 2009
Berlusconi would 'have to resign' if lying about affair with teenager
http://www.france24.com/en/20090528-...-lying-denials

REUTERS - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, facing demands to explain his relationship with a teenage girl, denied on Thursday he had had a "steamy affair" and said he would have to resign if caught lying about it...

May5, 2009
Berlusconi attacked by Catholic Church over divorce and 'weakness' for young actresses
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/05/0...orce_and_weak/

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has come under fire from the Catholic Church - one of his biggest allies - amid continuing controversy over his impending divorce. In a front-page editorial Avvenire, the official newspaper of the Italian Catholic Bishops Conference, condemned him for his behaviour describing it as 'worrying'. The stinging comment added that Italy deserved a Prime Minister who was a 'mirror of the country's soul' and called on him to be more 'sober and sombre'. Italian.....
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Old 07-21-2009, 04:55 AM   #36
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Are the Vatican and Italy on good terms...or is there trouble brewing? The reason I ask...is the last post...and what Leo Zagami said recently when in 'prison'.
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:07 PM   #37
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One of the best kept Secrets of the Vatican is no longer a secret. It is now possible to purchase Indulgences Online with a Papal Account.

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Old 07-21-2009, 10:00 PM   #38
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How much research have you done on pope john paul?

I won't even capitalize his name..........because if you think he wasn't involved in all this, you are sadly mistaken.

Its like washington dc..............people fight amoung the party lines and its all one great big party ................what a joke on us

The vatican has been involved from the start and it was john that was in there during the second world war. It made me sick and to be honest I cried for three weeks, I was so sick over the vatican's involvement in all of this. They make the decisions.

Its ugly and it needs to be said.

when they say we were dumbed down...............they meant it didnt they?
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:25 PM   #39
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My question continues to be...who is REALLY calling the shots? Is it a group of men sitting around at the Vatican...dreaming up all manner of evil and atrocity for Earth? Or...are these men TOLD what to do by evil aliens and/or evil spirits? If the second choice is the correct one...how much of a choice do they have in the matter? I presently consider the Pope to be the Vicar of Lucifer...rather than the Vicar of Christ. I really don't think he has much of a choice. Christ is supposed to mediate between God and Humanity. I currently think that Christ stands between Lucifer(the God of This World) and Humanity...and that there is a war between the Vatican and Christ. Somehow...the Vatican must betray Lucifer and embrace Christ. But this might result in the Battle of Armageddon. They have embraced Lucifer...and betrayed Christ...for a hell of a lot more than 30 pieces of silver...believe me. This is simply my personal speculation.
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:18 AM   #40
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well its been years in the making and it should not surprise anyone at this time.

You know if you look at Michael Angelo's hand reaching out to the small child you can see the letter M. Its there clear as day


I read the book Angel and Demons and found it wothwhile. I still feel that so much is still being left out. In fact I'm sure it is. A need to know basis

Being raised Catholic myself, I know how shocking all of this is. I really believed the BS and my son tells me now that I have to continue to Someone told me once that I would not like what I find in my search and he was absolutely correct.

The videos that Ashatav put out there explain so much. I learned about all the symbols from Maxwell and Tsarsion. They have a lot to say but neither believe in Jesus. I do believe in Jesus and I can't shake that he was indeed sent to show us the way.

I can't be upset about my upbringing because it instilled in me some very fine qualities. I like to thing so anyhow. I never ever believed that I was better than anyone of another religion. A boy once said hello to me and when I answered him, he said he was shocked that I did because of my uniform. I had no idea I wasn't suppose to . I know they instill this thought in school but it didnt stick to my brains. I even remember going to a lutheran church once and recieving their communion. I didn't burn yet and I know now I will not.

The priest refused to bless my marriage when I was 21 because I didnt know what religion my husbands first wife was and had no intentions of finding out. This is the first time I really felt slapped by the church. It didn't set with me well.................I felt bad for years and refused to attend mass as I felt singled out with the shame of not being able to recieve the sacraments.

That maybe one reason it killed me to learn all of this. I did alot of research on this last year. I believed it was just starting but oh lol what a fool I have been all my life.

I can remember my sons father walking into school and the nun threw holy water on him. You know it was just recently I realized it was because he was Native American. How really sad that is. He was a kind and decent man and he was a loving man. Not deserving of that type of treatment. I thought he was just so evil but now I know why.

So you see, the stories are all coming together even on the nuns.

Thats a whole new story.............sad in itself

The stories are out there and when you think back now to those times...........it starts to pull together and its the worse horror story that one can tell you.

You have to go way back in history and its not a pretty picture at all
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Old 07-22-2009, 06:50 AM   #41
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I've said it before...I like Roman Catholics. I have had very good luck with Roman Catholics. This includes priests and musicians. Human history is very violent and sad. Roman Catholic history is simply part of human history. It is our history. I don't wish to single them out as being the source of all evil in the world. I really think that they have had to deal with the devil...literally...throughout their history...in ways we may not be able to even imagine. I just think that the truth...in all of it's gory details...needs to be told...NOW...no matter how upsetting and disruptive this may be. It is time. I'm not an expert or authority on these subjects. I'm just trying to face reality...historically and presently. My internal insecurity and turmoil keeps me searching. We need to see the darkness and the light...and then focus on the light. I would never get into an angry argument with a Roman Catholic regarding their beliefs. I don't think they are lost souls. They are part of the human race...and I am pro-human. We need to rethink everything...and religion is a big part of this rethink. Keep going to church...but keep getting informed. If you're not going to church...you don't need to go...but keep getting informed. There is no easy way to deal with this.

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Old 07-22-2009, 12:46 PM   #42
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Im not singling the Roman Catholics particularly. Its such a joke to even try to keep them separate. I don't find too much differences in the other churches.

Take a look around you, the Pentecostal, Lutherans, Evangelica, Baptish and so on........they are all involved in the same ****

Its all a big game......Religion is a farce. Its doesn't matter. You will find the same stuff happening in churches across the world. They are an organization here to make money like big companies and to "dumb" us down. like our government.

Religion is only good for one thing as far as I am concern. To give one some type of "belief"......and then you find out its false ! All of it based on lies

I watched a movie several times regarding religion and have to shake my head.

The Roman Catholics are the center of all this only because its so big and and has so many followers. Now they are killing Christians and saying its being done by the Muslems just to get a huge religious war in the world. This is nothing new.................only that it is getting more widespread in the world and coming to the states for me has changed. Their has always been friction. That is why they brought so many refugees here. To cause frictions. They do not bother me, because I'm out of the church now, but my siblings, you should hear them talk. Those blasted Moslims....bla bla bla ! Its sickening.

Even the ones I love and were brought up as I was walk around pointing the ginger at ethinic groups. I hate that they do this, not the person. I know what its like to be "dumb down" I just remind them that we are all children of God.

The pope is at the top of all of this. He always has been. It is lucifer that calls the shots or is he disguised as Kreel or whatever his name is. I heard he sits right in his own little office at the white house. I cant say if thats true or not and I really dont care.

So if it sounds like Im putting down the people, I'm not............its just the rulers.

The stories of the abuse is not just coming out of the roman catholic churches by no means. Have you ever researched what they did to the Native Americans when they arrived in America and continuing even today in so many places. its not different than what happened to the Blacks or any third world country. I can't say I hate them for all of this but its something Im working on. The way I feel is that the world does need to know this is the story behind the vatican. The vatican is not a church of Our Creator................no way does it stand for what we know to be true in our hearts. Love, compassion,peace etc. Do all priest know the truth? who knows.........

I am not putting down people due to their religious belief, I am putting down the leaders and all the **** they are shoving down our throats. L.I.E.S
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Old 07-22-2009, 01:49 PM   #43
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Don't get me started...
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Old 07-22-2009, 02:30 PM   #44
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PTL = Pass The Loot or Pay The Lady.

Jesus didn't build churches and ask for money...so why do his professed followers do this? Are the Teachings of Jesus at the center of Christianity? Are you kidding? We worship fame, fortune, and power. So...preachers and churches gain fame, fortune, and power...by promoting a God of fame, fortune, and power. Clever.

On the other hand...there probably is a place for churches and church schools. The two should probably always combine their facilities to save money. Ironically...one of my favorite examples of a cost effective church/school combination...is a particular Roman Catholic church and school...where I think they got just about everything right. But I tend to think that churches and church schools should not be tax-exempt. They should be treated like any other business. Perhaps the model should be one of schools with concert halls...where excellence in psychology, ethics, spirituality, the arts and sciences...is the norm. Preachers and churches should not lie to their people. They should not preach guilt and fear...along with fame, fortune, and power...in order to collect more and more money...often from sincere people...who can't afford to give...and who receive emotional problems in return for all of their time, money, and effort.

I don't believe in hell...but sometimes I wish there really was a hell...if you know what I mean.

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Old 07-22-2009, 03:47 PM   #45
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Good post. I agree. I am not going to say A===!


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Old 07-23-2009, 02:13 PM   #46
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It isn't just the Catholics that have been infiltrated...


The State of Utah investigated hundreds of cases of Satanic Ritual abuse.


In 1996, The State of Utah investigated hundreds of cases of Satanic Ritual abuse. The Glenn Pace memo (below) showed that the Satanic Luciferian Cult, known as the Illuminati had infiltrated the Mormon Church. Posing as good members and leaders by day, at night, according to testimonials from numerous victims, they were involved in the most horrid and sadistic rituals known to man.


There is more than enough evidence to suggest that Utah politicians, media and law enforcement executed the biggest cover-up in the history of the state. Since that time, pressure has been exerted by the Illuminati-controlled Courts and media to prevent any accounts from making it into the public eye. With one exception...



http://deadmanmusings.blogspot.com/2...ic-ritual.html
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:46 PM   #47
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Some of you might find the following thread to be interesting in the context of this thread. http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...404#post182404 Once again...just consider the factual information as part of the puzzle...without anger or rancor.
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Old 12-10-2009, 01:11 AM   #48
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I just found an interesting debate between Eric Phelps and Leo Zagami. I know very little about the details...but I enjoy listening to people who know what they are talking about...and who know how to debate effectively. This sort of thing can cause smoke to come out of your ears! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGi4gSkcBEw
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Old 12-10-2009, 02:20 PM   #49
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Thanks for the links. I watched the secrets of the Vatican, and now watching the Bill Cooper vid. My thoughts on the Vatican don't differ much than others. I don't think it's a Roman Catholic thing, it's more of a thing where evil people need a place to hide. What a better place to hide than in an organization that has the respect of the people.
Back in time people trusted the government, religion etc. I think this can happen anywhere people can rise to positions of power over others.
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Old 12-11-2009, 05:13 AM   #50
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Good post. I'd encourage interested researchers to check out this site of Eric Phelps and read his ebook that you can download called Vatican Assassins
His website is here: http://www.vaticanassassins.org/

And i have bought a book called The Papal Billions by Tony Bushby that is fascianting too - all about the financial corruption of the Vatican.
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