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Old 12-11-2009, 07:08 PM   #51
orthodoxymoron
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Thank-you for your interest. Once again...I simply desire understanding regarding the most powerful visible organization on the planet. I have zero animosity. People should probably keep going to church. I just want a new reformation...based upon the Teachings of Jesus and the U.S. Constitution. I realize that this is anathema...but that it is the right thing to do in modernity. I envision a non-penitential and non-sacrificial Namaste Mass based upon the Latin Mass. I love the art, music, ceremony, fellowship, etc...but the Satanists and Moneychangers need to be driven out of the temple. Powerful off-world forces would probably need to approve these heretical reforms. I'm not a theologian...but this is how I see things presently.

Namaste

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Old 12-15-2009, 07:38 AM   #52
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This is more of - stumbling across -

Catholic Church bans funeral songs - July 16, 2008
A huge row has erupted in Ireland over the church's new regulations concerning funerals.

Irish jazz musician Paddy Cole was told that he wasn't allowed to play music at his own mother's funeral as doing so conflicted with new diocesan regulations laid down by the Bishop of Clgoher, Joseph Duffy.
http://current.com/items/89108067_ca...eral-songs.htm

This was before his face got hammered - and after his wife left him and the sex scandals.

Setback for Berlusconi caps bad week
By Guy Dinmore in Rome Published: October 7 2009 20:35
His loss of immunity caps a bad week in which a Milan court ordered his Fininvest media empire to pay €750m (£690m, $1.1bn) in damages for bribing a judge in its takeover of the Mondadori publishing house in the 1990s.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/77f78c5e-b...44feab49a.html
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Old 01-02-2010, 04:02 AM   #53
no caste
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But I tend to think that churches and church schools should not be tax-exempt. They should be treated like any other business.
ortho - Taxing churches is a great idea. I am liking it more and more This exemption thing ... makes no sense anymore, especially given Jesus's messages about simplicity and poverty and etc. Makes me feel like quoting Luke. Do you ever wonder what the net worth of the Catholic Church is? I do. I heard the pope today on the news, a bit of his New Year's Day address. Lots of rubbish IMO from an institution that ... 'Pope puts children at the heart of new year message' link
________________________________________________

X-ref: Irish Catholic Church Covered Up Child Abuse, 720 page Report Says
http://projectavalon.net/forum/showthread.php?p=192197
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:31 AM   #54
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I like the idea of a 5% National Consumption Tax to fund legitimate Federal Government functions and projects...and the elimination of all the stupid tax forms, loopholes, etc. Why does everything have to be insane?
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:09 AM   #55
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hey, ortho, speaking of insane...

The guy who shot Pope John Pope II 1981 is going to have a press conference, probably Wedn. (Mehmet Ali Agca claims to be the second messiah. He plans to write the perfect Gospel.) He was freed from prison yesterday.

So, apart from proclaiming the Apocalypse (too), there's this - kind of Berlusconi and 911ish (Sibel Edmonds).

The Consortium - On the Trail of Turkey's Terrorist Grey Wolves (1997)
........ Besides the attempted papal assassination, the Turkish disclosures could shed light on the collapse of the Vatican bank in 1982 and the operation of a clandestine pipeline that pumped sophisticated military hardware into the Middle East -- apparently from NATO stockpiles in Europe -- in exchange for heroin sold by the Mafia in the United States.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story33.html

The then Pope said in his memoir that USSR and Bulgaria etc were behind it. Hmm.
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Old 01-20-2010, 04:18 AM   #56
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hey, ortho, speaking of insane...

The guy who shot Pope John Pope II 1981 is going to have a press conference, probably Wedn. (Mehmet Ali Agca claims to be the second messiah. He plans to write the perfect Gospel.) He was freed from prison yesterday.

So, apart from proclaiming the Apocalypse (too), there's this - kind of Berlusconi and 911ish (Sibel Edmonds).

The Consortium - On the Trail of Turkey's Terrorist Grey Wolves (1997)
........ Besides the attempted papal assassination, the Turkish disclosures could shed light on the collapse of the Vatican bank in 1982 and the operation of a clandestine pipeline that pumped sophisticated military hardware into the Middle East -- apparently from NATO stockpiles in Europe -- in exchange for heroin sold by the Mafia in the United States.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story33.html

The then Pope said in his memoir that USSR and Bulgaria etc were behind it. Hmm.
Check out this vid starting at the 5 min point.


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Old 01-20-2010, 06:03 AM   #57
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Check out this vid starting at the 5 min point.
micjer - What a bunch of murder, mayhem and bs. Didn't know about that cardinal (death #1). Or that PJI immediately investigated the Vatican Bank. I think everyone in the world knew that 33 days JPI term was off the rocks. I guess it's handy to have your own city state, nun slaves, morticians, candy poison makers, temples, fancy chimney smoke, tax exemption. Check this from the article - holy high rollers ... straight up the a$$ to Iran, Nicaragua, Gulf War (Iraq I).

Three years later, the Grey Wolves gained international notoriety when Mehmet Ali Agca, one of Catli's closest collaborators, shot and nearly killed Pope John Paul II in St. Peter's Square on May 13, 1981. Catli was the leader of a fugitive terrorist cell that included Agca and a handful of other Turkish neo-fascists.
.....
[While it is still not clear how the NATO supplies entered the pipeline, other investigations have provided some clues. Witnesses in the October Surprise inquiry into an alleged Republican-Iranian hostage deal in 1980 claimed that they were allowed to select weapons from NATO stockpiles in Europe for shipment to Iran.
.....
Italian magistrates described the network they had uncovered as the "world's biggest illegal arms trafficking organization." They linked it to Middle Eastern drug empires and to prestigious banking circles in Italy and Europe.
.....
But Western intelligence also had its hooks into the Bulgarian smuggling scene, as evidenced by the CIA's use of Kintex to channel weapons to the Nicaraguan contras in the early 1980s.
.....
Though many of Turkish ultra-nationalists were anti-Western as well as anti-Soviet, the Cold War realpolitik compelled them to support a discrete alliance with NATO and U.S. intelligence. Among the Turkish extremists collaborating in this anti-Soviet strategy were the National Action Party and its paramilitary youth group, the Grey Wolves.
.....
Turkey got a wink and a nod from Washington as a quid pro quo for cooperating with the United States during the Gulf War. Turkish jets bombed Kurdish bases inside Iraqi territory. Meanwhile, on the ground, anti-Kurdish death squads were assassinating more than 1,000 non-combatants in southeastern Turkey.
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:30 AM   #58
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That video clip was creepy. Check out 'Murder in the Vatican' by Lucien Gregoire regarding the untimely death of Pope John Paul I. I've enjoyed attending masses...but I do not enjoy the intrigue, murder, and mayhem. 'In God's Name' by David Yallop is another interesting book...if you like reading about corruption, intrigue, murder, and mayhem.

Namaste
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Old 01-20-2010, 11:47 AM   #59
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One thing I think is important to keep in mind is that there is no other organization in the world that contributes more to benefit of women, children, the homeless and the poor than the catholic church.

This is a fact and the contributions in time and money by billions of Catholics is not done for nefarious purposes but out of genuine concern for their fellow man.

I am not defending the church's actions in other areas as the organization is so huge that it would be easy for anyone with malicious intention to join or get a job there, to hide within and cause problems.

I have always had a problem with the money and the property that the church has and this was one of the main reason I left... it just became too much. (but very American)

The reading the NT was not reflected in the church that I grew up in, once you looked behind the veils of the sanctuary.

I think many catholic people are much like the people here at Avalon... looking for ways to make our world a better place but always aware that we are dealing in the world.

Peace
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:30 PM   #60
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Bigmo, the same can be said about the Masons.

I have many friends who are masons. Wonderful people that would do anything for you and contribute a lot of time a donate anomonasly to great causes. The problem is that there are things that go on high up in these organizations that the "ordinary" people don't know about.

The illuminati wanted to infiltrate the vatican because of the numbers that follow the church. Control a country you can influence only a few. Influence the vatican and you influence billions.
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Old 01-20-2010, 01:40 PM   #61
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The Catholic church should not be looked on as a homogeneous organisation, it has many branches and sects within it, some working for the dark and some for the light.

But, as Malachai Martin (SJ) says quoting the vatican's chief exorcist "the smoke of satan has entered the vatican", especially since Papa Razzi, the nazi, took over...
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Old 01-20-2010, 02:38 PM   #62
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:59 PM   #63
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.....
Turkey got a wink and a nod from Washington as a quid pro quo for cooperating with the United States during the Gulf War. Turkish jets bombed Kurdish bases inside Iraqi territory. Meanwhile, on the ground, anti-Kurdish death squads were assassinating more than 1,000 non-combatants in southeastern Turkey.
Chemical Ali was executed in Iraq today.

Iraq on Monday executed Ali Hassan al-Majeed, the Saddam Hussein henchman widely known as
“Chemical Ali”, for crimes against humanity, government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1442928/
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:56 PM   #64
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I have no issues with rank and file Masons or Roman Catholics. What concerns me is who owns and operates this Solar System? My concerns are very high up. This is all about Solar System Administration. I am very, very interested in Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer. Who are they...REALLY? I am very frustrated regarding all of the threads I have started. I am very frustrated with my life. I keep seeing the light vs dark battles...but I can never seem to pin anything down...or get any traction whatsoever. I can see clearly now...but I can't do a damn thing! I used to think that the answer was in the Bible. Then I lost my faith...and I thought that the answer was blowing in the wind. Now...I think that the truth is Down There...under the surface of the Earth and the Moon...in bases...possibly run by Draconian Reptilians.

But I don't really know if these beings exist...and if they do...what their true nature really is. How many factions are there? Are they all bad? Are they all good? Are they a mixture of good and bad? Who's winning? Of Gabriel, Michael, and Lucifer...who is the best...and who is the worst? Are they all Draconian Reptilians? Are they all Greys? Are they all Humans? Are they all of the above? Are they none of the above? Do they even exist? I've recently been thinking that Gabriel is the real problem...that Lucifer rebelled against Gabriel...and that Michael is the peacemaker. I'm toying with the idea that in "Heaven"...these three were at the pinnacle of the temple. I'm also toying with the idea that the "War in Heaven" was a three way power struggle among these three...which continues to this very day...here on Earth. Could this be getting at the heart of the "Alien Presence" which drove Bill Cooper to drinking and irritability? Bill said that it wasn't the Jews, the Catholics, or the Masons, et al. He said that it was the Mystery Schools and Secret Societies. This thing could be very hard to pin down.

I think I'm going to go and see "Avatar" and "Legion" this week...which will probably really mess with my already very confused and feeble mind. All of this is interesting...but I don't think it's doing me or anyone else much good. I want the truth...but I fear that the truth may push me (and a lot of other people) over the edge. Be careful as you research these subjects. I think that this is necessary work...for those who can handle it...but that it is truly playing with fire. Don't take this stuff lightly! On another thread I said that I needed to find a good Jesuit...but that a good Jesuit is hard to find!! When the dirt really hits the fan...and I think it will...I want a good CIA agent and a good Jesuit to help me through what may be quite literally 'Hell on Earth'. Remember the CIA type of guy in the original "V" who saved everyone's @$$? They didn't like him...but he knew what the hell was going on...and he knew what to do. Something to think about.

Namaste

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Old 01-25-2010, 07:01 PM   #65
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I have no issues with rank and file Masons or Roman Catholics. What concerns me is who owns and operates this Solar System?

Namaste
It's more a matter of who thinks they 'own' the solar system. IMO.
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Old 01-26-2010, 03:40 AM   #66
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http://presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116...tionid=3510213


Vatican bank charged with money-laundering






The Bank of the Vatican has been accused of laundering USD 200 million by proxy through an Italian creditor, a report indicates.

The allegation of the Vatican bank's financial corruption has been made by an Italian magazine that pointed to the financial institute's purported involvement in stealth fiscal transactions —via several accounts —with Italy's UniCredit Bank, Russia Today television network quoted the Panorama magazine as reporting.

“This corruption is continuing on a regular basis in the Vatican,” claimed Janathan Levy, a lawyer familiar with the bank.

“Again, there's no reason for a religion to have a bank that does worldwide commercial activities, dealing in gold, dealing in insurance, dealing in property and then hiding behind the Roman Catholic Church," Levy pointed out.
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Old 01-26-2010, 04:56 AM   #67
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The Satanists and the Money Changers need to be driven out of the temple...in an Italian Police Van! Then they can go to work on the Deep Underground Reptilian Bases! Of course...the good Reps and Greys can stay!

In a sense...a Government is a Church...and a Church is a Government. They are two sides of the same coin. The question is 'What is the nature of the Church and the Government?' A "Constitutional Theocracy is a form of government in which within the context of a modern democracy a particular religion is granted a central role in the legal and political system. In contrast to a pure theocracy, power resides in political figures operating within the bounds of a constitution, rather than religious leadership. A form of government (also referred to as a system of government or a political system) is a system composed of various people, institutions and their relations in regard to the governance of a state. ... Theocracy is a form of government in which a religion and the government are intertwined..." http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclop...onal-theocracy Could the United States of America be under a Constitutional Theocracy presently? Could the United States of America have always been under such a Constitutional Theocracy? See Article 6 of the U.S. Constitution. Was the 1954 Greada treaty simply an extension of this hypothetical Constitutional Theocracy? http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/future.htm Is the U.N. Charter superceding the U.S. Constitution a further expansion of a Constitutional Theocracy? To stop preaching...and go to meddling...How would the Roman Catholic Church function if it were based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...and was in complete harmony with the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Teachings of Jesus? Would a Pope be elected by the general membership every four years? Would the Teachings of Jesus, the US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and the Will of the People...supercede Canon Law, the Curia, the Pope, the Black Pope (and whoever the Black Pope takes orders from)? Would this create chaos...or would it minimize evil and corruption? For Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom to work...the Roman Catholic Church would have to go along with it...and looking at history...this would be nearly impossible. The RCC is the biggest 'We Never Change Church' imaginable. The Sirius Powers That Be would have to order it done...or it would be a non-starter. For Sirius (and Alpha Draconis?) to sign-off on this...We the People of Earth would have to exhibit a significant level of Knowledge and Responsibility. There is presently a Forbidden Knowledge Explosion...and the BIG question is 'Will We the People of Earth Respond Responsibly?' How about a non-penetential and non-sacrificial Ecumenical Namaste Mass based upon the Latin Mass...Celebrating the Divinity Within Humanity? Now I'm really meddling! I'm an abominable heretic...yet I prefer the glory, grandeur, reverence, and awe of the traditional service...rather than the 'Jesus is my buddy, show-up in shorts and a t-shirt, praise-song, hippie reefer-madness'.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94sa1Byb7fw 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5guVydW7w&NR=1 3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL4PO...eature=related 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8i6...eature=related 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxBjqrPAUg8&NR=1

In a sense...I desire a Minimalist Humanistic Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Theocracy . I simply desire that everything work out well for everyone...everywhere and everywhen.

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Old 02-05-2010, 09:25 PM   #68
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I just spoke with someone who says they are God. But they smoke and drink to smelly and loud drunkeness...and say they've never heard of the Jesuits! I even tried to talk this "God" out of destroying the world. He seemed to like me...so maybe we have a chance! They reminded me of another person who told me they were going to walk on water...because they wanted a challenge! The first person considered America to be Babylon...rather than Rome being Babylon. I've heard other people say this as well. Leo Zagami hinted at this while in 'prison'. I hope Leo's OK. Sherry Shriner takes this view, as well. Bill Cooper pointed his finger at 'America' rather than Europe. Do Deep Underground Reptilian Bases under North America control even the Vatican? How deep is this snake hole? Is the inner Earth one big maze of snake holes...consisting of bases, cities, stargates, temples, cathedrals, leviton trains...all ruled by the God/Satan of This Prison Planet? I presently think that God is Satan...and that Humans are not in charge of Humanity. I'm seeing a very dark reality...with billions of victims. I really, really hope I'm wrong. I really don't enjoy seeing a demon behind every bush. (every Bush???!!!) Sorry...I couldn't resist. Nothing personal Magog!

Namaste

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Old 02-09-2010, 10:10 PM   #69
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Maybe I'm tired, but I think the Big Energies (good & bad) are mostly people's collective emotional magnetism congealing around a story.
mmmmm, I like the implications of this thought.

People can create or they can discover. Its different when you think about it in the right context. At this moment of the day, I am remembering that nothing is as important as an individual's own mind.

peace
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:13 PM   #70
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I just spoke with someone who says they are God. But they smoke and drink to smelly and loud drunkeness...and say they've never heard of the Jesuits! I even tried to talk this "God" out of destroying the world. He seemed to like me...so maybe we have a chance! They reminded me of another person who told me they were going to walk on water...because they wanted a challenge! The first person considered America to be Babylon...rather than Rome being Babylon. I've heard other people say this as well. Leo Zagami hinted at this while in 'prison'. I hope Leo's OK. Sherry Shriner takes this view, as well. Bill Cooper pointed his finger at 'America' rather than Europe. Do Deep Underground Reptilian Bases under North America control even the Vatican? How deep is this snake hole? Is the inner Earth one big maze of snake holes...consisting of bases, cities, stargates, temples, cathedrals, leviton trains...all ruled by the God/Satan of This Prison Planet? I presently think that God is Satan...and that Humans are not in charge of Humanity. I'm seeing a very dark reality...with billions of victims. I really, really hope I'm wrong. I really don't enjoy seeing a demon behind every bush. (every Bush???!!!) Sorry...I couldn't resist. Nothing personal Magog!

Namaste
Update regarding "God". "God" has been looking for me...and I'm told that "God" dreamed that I was murdered...and this "God" appeared to be a 'vengeful God'...and very protective toward me...so I'm told. I found this fascinating and chilling...because I have talked very little with this person....and they know nothing about my controversial threads and comments here on Avalon. I worry about that sort of thing...because if people really took me seriously...and if I'm correct about a lot of things...the results could make life difficult for a lot of the custodians of the status quo...and I think they know this very well. But not very many people latch on to what I say...so there should be no real cause for concern...right? That's what I keep telling myself...but I'm not so sure. Believe it, or not, I'm trying to make life easier for everyone...including the really bad guys and gals...human and non-human. But just for the record...if anything happens to me...it was NOT an accident or self inflicted. All of my close friends and relatives know this...and they have my top 10 list of suspects. Do you really want to turn me into a martyr...and discredit your own cause? If anyone is ever really bothered or threatened by what I say...talk to me. I'm reasonable...and I try really hard not to be stubborn. I will stop...if asked nicely and reasonably. I'm trying to dig into things that are already out there...and then formulate positive solutions...even though they don't seem positive sometimes. I have zero animosity toward anyone...really and truly. But perhaps I should cut back on my posting. Maybe I will.

Namaste

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Old 02-13-2010, 05:38 PM   #71
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Nay Brother - Scream Your Truth to the Rafters...

Stand...

The Roman Catholic Church was taken over by Forces Loyal to the Fallen Ones on June 29th, 1963. It was then signified by the carrying from that point forward by the Pontiff Pope Peter the VI and all others since, of the Crooked or Bent Cross (Which is an Esoteric Symbol of the Antichrist).

Pope John Paul the II and others have sat in a Chair with an Inverted Cross - Again the AntiChrist Symbol, and If You think that They've just missed that one while setting up the Area for His audiences - Then You haven't studied their Protocols in the right way. They miss nothing when setting up for a Papal audience and it's ALL on Purpose. Bank on that...

EG.

Fish Hat = Dagon or Poseidon Worship...

INRI = Ishtar / Nimrod / Rah Marduk / Isis (Inner Doctrine for the Initiate)

INRI = Acronym of the Latin inscription 'IESVS·NAZARENVS·REX·IVDÆORVM' (Jesus Nazarenus, Rex Iudaeorum), which translates to English as "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews". (Outer Doctrine for the Profane)

I could go on Ad Infinitum...

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Old 02-13-2010, 10:39 PM   #72
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Mercuriel...the BS didn't start with the Vatican...or start when the Vatican was supposedly infiltrated. This goes back to the War in Heaven...in my opinion. There seems to be a very bitter and ancient conflict between the Human and Reptilian races. I don't know the details...but this whole thing has been playing out in the Pleiades, Aldebaran, Sirius, Mars, Atlantis, Lemuria, Babylon, Egypt, Rome, Jerusalem...and in the Roman Catholic Church...right from the beginning of this organization. If it hadn't been them...it would've been another organization. This goes way deeper than corrupt men sitting around at the Vatican...dreaming up all manner of evil and atrocity for Planet Earth and the Human Race. It goes deep into Underground Reptilian Bases...I believe. A Draconian Reptilian may tell the Black Pope what to tell Pope Benedict. I think the top level Vatican hierarchy does exactly what they are told to do. That's just what I think. I don't really know...or have any inside information or proof. If I did...I probably wouldn't be safe on Pluto. Recently...I've been thinking that we are Prisoners of War on a Prison Planet with Grey Guards and a Reptilian Warden...and that the Reptilian Agenda for Earth is administered primarily through the City States (Vatican City, City of London, and Washington D.C.) and the United Nations. I tend to think that somehow we lost an ancient Human vs Reptilian war...and we are experiencing some sort of Payback Time. I'm speculating that the Universe is ruled by a Reptilian Universal Church Theocracy. My hope is that All Races will eventually embrace Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...which I think would be in everyone's best interest. I tend to agree with Jordan Maxwell...that we're pretty much $crewed. UNLESS...the Reptilians make an exception for this Solar System...and Theocratically Impose Human Sovereignty in this Solar System based upon Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom...in the context of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights...in the context of the United Nations...and applied to the entire Solar System. This would have to be a top-down implementation. Anything else would probably be a blood-bath. This could serve as a test. The Reptilians might want to make this their modus operandi if the test is successful. Who knows?

Namaste
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:14 AM   #73
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Check out 'Murder in the Vatican' by Lucien Gregoire regarding the untimely death of Pope John Paul I.
This video maybe of interest: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...45237354291040 (Click on time link 34:30)
Wendelle Stevens said that he was living with Billy Meier the night Pope Paul VI died.
Billy told Wendelle that he was shown how the Pope was murdered, and predicted how the next Pope (John Paul I) will be elected and subsequently murdered shortly.
Wendelle told this story to a German Journalist, who did some investigation and later published the book "In God's Name: An Investigation Into the Murder of Pope John Paul I" http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Name-Inve.../dp/0786719842
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:49 AM   #74
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Default Re: Secrets of the Vatican

Wow lisa! I wasn't expecting that! Thank-you for the link! I did read 'In God's Name' by David Yallop...and it was quite revealing. 'Murder in the Vatican' by Lucien Gregoire was even more revealing. I'm hoping that the church can be completely reformed and purified. When Jesus tried to reform the church...he got murdered...and subsequently ignored and superceded...and put on bloody and nearly naked display throughout the world...in the form of the crucifix. When Pope John Paul I tried to reform the church...he got murdered. And it sounds like Pope John Paul VI was murdered as well...for attempting to clean things up.

Namaste
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Old 02-14-2010, 01:49 AM   #75
lisa
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Location: Bay Area, USA
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Default Re: Secrets of the Vatican

orthodoxymoron, this maybe good news to you then: http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...22940736329323
Jesus survived the murder, went to India, got married, etc. The speaker in the video met one of Jesus' descendants...
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