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Old 03-04-2010, 07:16 PM   #1
Zeddo
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Default Are we slaves or free-who decides

Hi everyone.

I popped in this morning aand something caught my eye. Now don't jump to conclusions and imagine I am flaming anyone (especially the posters of what I allude to here). This is meant as a quick note to think about how we are motivated. Why do I start a thread, why do I reply to one, what are the driving forces and who am I trying to help?

Okay to get to the point and keep this as brief as possible:
The one thread about humour has as a tail end to the title (bill will like this).
The other thread on channeling has a response where someone says about a site/channeler "Bill, Kerry and Willcox (I think?) endorse this.

Question. Since when do we have to appease B&K? Since when does what they think or "endorse" make it right or wrong? Who could care less what they personally think. Are they not mere instruments, as are all of us, for briinging to the best of our abilities illumination love and light?

Think about it. The one that says (Bill will like this) is very much like when we were at school and would take an apple for the teacher.

As I say, I am sincerely not having a dig but say this so that we can open our eyes and question ourselves about our own motivation, and even our fears.

Understand that we do not need to please anyone with what we think. This doesn't mean that we have free licence to stomp all over each other, it does mean that we don't have to worry that "mom and dad, or teacher" will approve of what we think and write.

LL&P

Be Yourself and be Free

Z
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:19 PM   #2
Céline
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Freedom is a mis represented word...
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:21 PM   #3
Zeddo
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Quote:
Originally Posted by Céline View Post
Freedom is a mis represented word...
Hi Celine, you need to expound on that please. All words can be mis-represented, such as "love' "hate" etc

Z
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:24 PM   #4
Céline
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Hmm ok

Freedom...Do you want door #1 or Door #2?

there is NO freedom in that question...

Who here...considers themselves "free"?

i would gather most right?

Do think the perception of freedom equates freedom?

Surrendering.. can bring freedom as well...
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:35 PM   #5
Zeddo
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

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Originally Posted by Céline View Post
Hmm ok

Freedom...Do you want door #1 or Door #2?

there is NO freedom in that question...

Who here...considers themselves "free"?

i would gather most right?

Do think the perception of freedom equates freedom?

Surrendering.. can bring freedom as well...
Excellent observation. My thought is the one who imagines themselves to be "free" is indeed not. Now, does that mean I have to think of myself as being enslaved? Hmmm....not sure myself, I guess it is the understanding that freedom is a condition of spirit and there are levels of freedom. Perhaps in this existence, none are truly free?

BUT this doesn't mean we should think as slaves!

Z
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:38 PM   #6
Church
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Hello Zeddo. I have made many of the same observations you just mentioned, and I agree with much of what you posted. I think it's just the human tendency to get a little "star struck" for lack of a better word, and then want to call attention to oneself in order to get some acknowledgement from the "stars." And to many people, Bill and Kerry and even members of the forum, are kind of like stars (no pun intended!) and therefore the human tendency to want them to acknowledge you comes out.

I think everyone has the tendency to be star struck or become someone's "fan boy" from time to time. For the most part, I think it's harmless.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:46 PM   #7
Richard T
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Harmless it is if one considers loss of identity as being so.

People don't speak from themselves. They speak from what they learn, from what they are being told, being what they are being told by rational people in the physical of intelligences in the invisible.

One way or the other, if they speak what they are told, if they speak what is collectively correct to speak, if they don't speak from the center of themselves, their consciousness is displaced.

By displaced I mean that their consciousness lies outside of its center and is therefore periferal to their reality. That is what I call 'loss of identity'.

And because of that people associate with this or that group, with this or that religion, with this or that country or culture, and so on. They say and associate to what they were told, what they 'learned' what they remember, but not what they fundamentally are. They exist in the memory of their soul.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:49 PM   #8
Richard T
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Freedom only exist in the centre, not in the periphery.

In the periphery, there is the illusion of free will, the illusion of door no.1 and door no.2, as stated above.

And the peripheral mind always seeks the easiest transit route to escape its reason to be.

The peripheral mind is a temporary abstraction that takes itself seriously but that is undone as soon as he can't avoid fatality.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:59 PM   #9
Zeddo
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard T View Post
Freedom only exist in the centre, not in the periphery.
Hi Richard

That bit right there is explanation enough as that is the truth of the matter. I can't say anything to add to that.

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Old 03-04-2010, 08:05 PM   #10
Surial
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Wink Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Is there a philosophy category here at Avalon? We live in a self serving economic system where everyone has to pay for everything. You pay for services, food, and survival. That is not freedom.

Spiritually you can be free. Being less materialistic can be less dependent upon the economic system. However, we were created to be slaves. Much of the capacity of our potential was taken away thousands of years ago.

We mined gold. Now we compete amongst each other for resources.

You are free to explore more of your self and rediscover your soul. But physically, Earth has been quarantined due to a plague of evil that reached this planet. The more ignorant you are the less of a threat you become to the bigger agendas.

But ignorance is also a catalyst for evil. What irony. Not to worry though, we are slowly evolving and waking up from the nightmare. We have interesting times ahead.
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:07 PM   #11
Zeddo
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church View Post
I think it's just the human tendency to get a little "star struck" for lack of a better word, and then want to call attention to oneself in order to get some acknowledgement from the "stars."
Excellent observation. What I would like to add to this is that being star struck has it's place in growth but soon we realise that we all have unique talents and in an obscure sort of way all deserve "star status". However does this mean we need to have people authenticate us with their "praise and adoration".

There is a spiritual connotation to all of this. The illumined master being adored is a metaphor for all of us as spirit, when being worshipped stops the praise and reminds them doing the worshipping that they are no less nor greater than the master and are tio cease from such behaviour.

Z

Last edited by Jonah; 03-05-2010 at 06:14 AM.
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Fair point Zeddo but there also seems to be an appreciation society too with lots of pats on the head and massaging of egos amongst members. Now have yourself a pat on the head
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Old 03-04-2010, 09:11 PM   #13
Northern Boy
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

your a precieved free (in your eyes) slave (in theirs) for now
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:57 AM   #14
Céline
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

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your a precieved free (in your eyes) slave (in theirs) for now

Hmm that is not everyones perspective
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:34 AM   #15
dj kelly
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Is it even possible for any of us to even difine what freedom realy is, its just a thought process that we all subscribe to , but if you think about it even in freedom as we see it ,there are boundaries , freedom is a differnt concept to each individual, ,my own feelings on this are for true freedom to exist on earth ,all need to raise there conchesness to the exact same level, which of course will surely happen in time, however what freedom will mean, time will only tell i guess. love and light DJ
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Old 03-05-2010, 02:09 AM   #16
Zeddo
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Quote:
Originally Posted by dj kelly View Post
..........however what freedom will mean, time will only tell i guess. love and light DJ
What I like about this thread are the different opinions, but below the surface they are all fairly close.

Thanks for all the answers. Great stuff.

LL&P

Z
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Old 03-05-2010, 03:49 PM   #17
justpeter
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

I think I might be one of the people you mentioned in your first post Zeddo because I posted a link to the Law of One material and I said that Bill, Kerry and David Wilcock all seemed to endorse it or at least mention it regularly.

So why did I do that?

Well, there are so many posts with links to all kinds of weird and wonderful things on this forum that I don't think everything that is mentioned will interest everyone here. However, since people have signed-up to this forum then I assume they will have an interest in the same, or similar, things as Bill, Kerry and David Wilcock. Therefore I was just trying to point out that this data is in line with the principles of the people mentioned and therefore might resonate with people on this forum.

I was just trying to help, actually, but I do understand your post and I think it's a valid question you ask.

Peter
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Old 03-05-2010, 04:54 PM   #18
Peace of mind
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

If we all became Jack of all trades and didn’t depend on people to do specific jobs in our society there would be no recessions. If we all learned the basics of farming, building and repair…the governments wouldn’t have the power they have now. In a crisis people will loot and become selfish minded. The system we live in handicaps us, it makes us spoiled, it dumbs us down by letting us place blame on others for not doing a job we can do for self. Just imagine if we were more involved with developing the basic needs of humanity.

Indigenous people operate within a group which everyone in the group is taught all the basics to survival…While our so called civilized groups operate as individuals with limited skills and one profession. Some people don’t even know how to change a flat tire, paint, tighten up a leaky faucet, or change a light bulb…much less plant food, or protect their own land. They depend on others to do it for them by way of payment. Take away their money they will become helpless, their weaknesses will be exposed…all the more reason why some are hesitant in exposing the corruptions in the failed systems…simply because they don’t want to get their own hands dirty.

Freedom is only obtained thru knowledge and know how; empowering yourself to do more gives you more choices, more room to work with, more freedom…

Peace
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Old 03-05-2010, 05:33 PM   #19
mudra
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Most of the time our prison are our minds : what we think we can , can't , should or should'nt do .
Our mental process is powerfull but if based on fear it will lock our inherent ability to bring out a balanced viewpoint of our own . The slavery we build ourselves is predominant imo to any outside slavery we might run into . The outside world is a reflection of how much we have trapped ourselves in our mind patterns. To create a change we must start with our own .The total peace we have within ..Once we find it .. Once we experience it then we can bring it to the world .

Love Always
mudra

Love Always
mudra
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Old 03-06-2010, 12:20 AM   #20
lovepromoter
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Quote:
Originally Posted by mudra View Post
Most of the time our prison are our minds : what we think we can , can't , should or should'nt do .
Our mental process is powerfull but if based on fear it will lock our inherent ability to bring out a balanced viewpoint of our own . The slavery we build ourselves is predominant imo to any outside slavery we might run into . The outside world is a reflection of how much we have trapped ourselves in our mind patterns. To create a change we must start with our own .The total peace we have within ..Once we find it .. Once we experience it then we can bring it to the world .

Love Always
mudra

Love Always
mudra
Mudra's awesome!

What is freedom? many think it is having a choice, but what is a choice? but a limitation?

We can only be what we are, and for some seeing their own reflection sends them fleeing.

Its much easier to pretend a truth than to live your truth.

Freedom does not exist in this place, its an ideal that places limitation on others.

Let them give their apple to Bill, or Kerry or anyone they see fit.

This is 'freedom'.
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Old 03-06-2010, 12:30 AM   #21
Zeddo
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

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Originally Posted by justpeter View Post
I think I might be one of the people you mentioned in your first post Zeddo because I posted a link to the Law of One material ...........
I was just trying to help, actually, but I do understand your post and I think it's a valid question you ask.

Peter
Hi Peter

Thanks for not taking what I wrote the wrong way which would have, in retrospect, been easy to do.

LL&P

Z
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Old 03-06-2010, 12:45 AM   #22
Zeddo
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

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Originally Posted by lovepromoter View Post
Mudra's awesome!

Its much easier to pretend a truth than to live your truth.

Freedom does not exist in this place, its an ideal that places limitation on others.

Let them give their apple to Bill, or Kerry or anyone they see fit.

This is 'freedom'.
I think that living an untruth (pretending a truth) is far more difficult than to live your own truth. There is a problem, most are scared to be themselves because the precieved truth comes from being indoctrinated from the time we are born, if not before. We are taught a percieved truth in that we need to conform to the mores of society in such a fashion as to meet with acceptable moral codes. One can see how these "truths" fluctuate over time, as in political correct speech, gay marraige etc. (I am choosing the obvious ones here that have changed remarkably over the last 3o years).

True freedom will not place limitations on anyone because with true freedom, one will find true responsibility. With true responsibility it naturally follows that you will put others first. Imagine when that is being done by everyone. This is a spiritual concept more than a physical one. I was using the "apple" as a metaphor for us to question our actions.

Z
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Old 03-06-2010, 12:47 AM   #23
Zeddo
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

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Originally Posted by Surial View Post
Is there a philosophy category here at Avalon?
There should be !!!
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Old 03-06-2010, 01:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

Not to comment on the slaves/free because that's such an interesting topic I could write away with that one...

ok.. that's a leading start! so I'll just say this.

It maybe there is no freedom in what happens to us, but that has nothing to do with illuminati etc. Think about it, whatever you choose to do is generalyl your 'best' guess at was is the right thing to do. Which of us, thinking that option 1 is worse than option 2 (when taking everything into account) picks option 1? so our experiences and influences determine our actions, and it's hard to veer from that if at all. However I think we are free to think about everything. We are free to entertain the options, and everything is possible, so there is freedom there, somewhere...

But the thing about your post that interests me most Zeddo, is your reflective question on why do we post, and are we looking for someone's endorsement.

I think that is a very perceptive question. And at it's heart is the possibility that every post we make is looking for endorsement from someone. Who isn't pleased when someone's read their thread, or someone comments on their post?

In the end even that is perhaps a mask.. to a deeper idea that really, each time we post, maybe we're looking for self-endorsement? Self-affirment of our worthiness.

Which in itself is a paradox, because which of us, compared to the whole of Avalon membership of postings, is important (in a quantitative way?) In the grand scheme of things? And yet, at the same time we're all incredibly important, unique and infinitely special.

I ask myself a lot what I am doing here?, and what are my motivations for posting. If I am just posting to be seen, or to belong, or to stand out, or to harmonise, or to be liked, or to encourage, or to help, or to shock?

Ultimately, as I develop, I hope my need to engage will decrease, or at least that my reflections will become calmer and less with a 'charge'. I want to 'be' more, and say less... but for now, it's hard to shut me up

Great question Zeddo. You got me thinking.
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Old 03-06-2010, 01:29 AM   #25
Majorion
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Default Re: Are we slaves or free-who decides

In my opinion, freedom is variable, depending on your physical location (different laws in different nations), your relationships, your duties and responsibilities such as work. With some things you are absolutely free by every sense of the definition, and with other things you're not and one knows it. The larger question is whether the unfair system this world operates on actually rids you of all and/or any freedom in your life, the answer - in most cases - is probably no. Because that would suggest that dreams never (or don't) come true, when we know they do, but just aren't as easily fulfilled and that is our problem, we know its not easy and we often want the easy way. The way I see it actually is you get opportunities and are constantly offered certain choices in life, sort of as a test, and although your choices are limited and even the freedom is limited, you still ultimately get to make that final choice, and if the majority of your choices were good then it will reflect later in life, same as the bad, your happiness factor being the key here, that's what we want from freedom; to be lead through freedom to a life of happiness. Though this issue is such a riddle because everyone has a different opinion and life has treated everyone differently, so, thats why I say its variable, it depends mainly on the conditions people have been subjected to; willingly or unwillingly, in life.
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