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Old 12-14-2009, 09:23 PM   #26
greybeard
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Eckhart Tolle, covers the subject beautifully, one comment of his that springs to mind is "Dont take your thoughts too seriously" Dr David Hawkins goes a step further " All thoughts are falacious" however you would have to read the rest of what he said to put it into context.

It really is complex and thats where missunder standings arrise.
Total acceptance being in the now dosent mean action is not taken.
Unconditional love is not warm and fuzzy it means loving the essence of all, the spirit/soul whatever. It does not mean condoning actions. Naievety== cant spell.---is not helpfull. As spritual energy evolves/ rises to the point that unconditional love is possible, the third eye begins to open so that discernment takes place and right action occours.

There is also an understanding that nothing escapes the law of Karma and there are consequences for every action.

Seeming victims are somtimes recieving back what they did to others in this life or past life. Its not for me to judge the right or wrong of anything.

Somtimes when another is suffering one is moved by compassion to do what can be done somtimes not.

If all action is done with integrity and the end result surrendered to God then no personal karma is incurred. If one claim the result of good action then positive karma is incurred, then you have to come back another life time to enjoy the fruits of your actions

So if you dont want to come back in humility and gratitude --- surender -- surender -- surender. This also helps you to transcend ego.
It all depends on your spiritual goal. If you want enlightenment ( the ultimate goal of spiritual endevour in this world) thats what you do according to those who are in that state. Final result is by the Grace of God.

Anyone here Kundalini awakened?

Chris
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:32 PM   #27
fr66ajc
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Greetings... interesting thread.

For me the ego is 'me' where-as the spirit is the 'I'; as in the purest 'I am', the purest state of beingness.

I don't profess to know a huge amount about this but I have always likened the ego to the more animal instincts we have to deal with, and in these, desire (jealousy, envy etc etc) is the most destructive when you are trying to progress to a more enlightened view point. Desire, or wanting something, is often the catalyst for life's troubles. Need is not desire, the body needs water to survive, and the ego directs your actions to obtain water, thus the ego is a good and worthy companion, however if the ego directs you to murder your neighbour just to get a glass of water then that is where the ego destroys your progress (not to mention the other persons).

Survival on this planet requires an ego, but in my opinion, enlightenment is a state in which spirit has attained mastery over the ego. The ego becomes a tool to be consciously used rather than it using and directing you. Destroy the ego and you destroy your ability to function in this reality.

My 2 pence anyway.
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by fr66ajc View Post
Greetings... interesting thread.

For me the ego is 'me' where-as the spirit is the 'I'; as in the purest 'I am', the purest state of beingness.

I don't profess to know a huge amount about this but I have always likened the ego to the more animal instincts we have to deal with, and in these, desire (jealousy, envy etc etc) is the most destructive when you are trying to progress to a more enlightened view point. Desire, or wanting something, is often the catalyst for life's troubles. Need is not desire, the body needs water to survive, and the ego directs your actions to obtain water, thus the ego is a good and worthy companion, however if the ego directs you to murder your neighbour just to get a glass of water then that is where the ego destroys your progress (not to mention the other persons).

Survival on this planet requires an ego, but in my opinion, enlightenment is a state in which spirit has attained mastery over the ego. The ego becomes a tool to be consciously used rather than it using and directing you. Destroy the ego and you destroy your ability to function in this reality.

My 2 pence anyway.
Your observation re the animal like qualities of ego are correct.

We come into this world with a brain that has evolved from reptilian to animal. The main part of the brain is still animal in construction appart from the front cortex which is relatively new, So yes it was necessary for survival, however we are an evolutionary species and according to those who are in an enlightened state, they function in a more alive fashion in an egoless state.
Its not possible to be enlightened and have an ego which is the me not the I
There is little self and Self. Me or I as you put it.

We wil always have a working brain in this reality.

To give an example.
Picture a surgeon conducting an opperation he has performed sucesfully thousands of times. All is going well then an assistanr says.
Do you know who we are working on? --Its Mr X the most important and influential person we have ever worked on. If we screw this up we will never work again.
If the working mind stays in control doing what it does best then all will be well, but if the emotional egoic me gets in there anything may happen -- the routine opp becomes so stresfull and who works at their best under stress.

So the ego has served us well it has got us this far but its time to move on if the pundits are to be believed.

Eckhart Tolle said "We are on the verge of the bigest step forward in the evolution of mankind since we left the sea, we have to evolve if mankind to survive"
So this reality is changing perhaps.

Who knows on that one? I dont


Chris
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:15 PM   #29
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The control of our emotional body is a biggy. Thats all tied up with ego and its soo addictive! Reading Dolores Cannons books and others it seems that humanity's out of control emotions make us like loose cannons, dangerous to ourselves and to the cosmos. I know that learning to control emotions (and Im still learning) was a biggy for me, but, oh so freeing to the extent I have been able to.

Greybeard, can you describe Kundalini awakening?

Love

Carmen
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:57 PM   #30
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The control of our emotional body is a biggy. Thats all tied up with ego and its soo addictive! Reading Dolores Cannons books and others it seems that humanity's out of control emotions make us like loose cannons, dangerous to ourselves and to the cosmos. I know that learning to control emotions (and Im still learning) was a biggy for me, but, oh so freeing to the extent I have been able to.

Greybeard, can you describe Kundalini awakening?

Love

Carmen
Hi Carmen
What I know of this is personal experience and also what I have read of mainly Indian teachers writing.
I will give you a few of the physical symptoms and see if it resonates with you.

In the early stages during meitation there may be an intense itching/burning sensation in the scalp/crown chakra. There may be a pulling sensation at the third eye, as though some one put a suction cup on your forehead and is pulling gently.
At some point there will definately a stiring ( like some one waking from a deep sleep becoming restless) feeling at the perenium, after a while and it may take months, there is a feeling of energy "chi" rising up the spine from the perenium its thin and weak to begin with and may only go as far as the second chakra to begin with, it will in stages continue to rise, chakra by chakra, getting stronger and thicker tough the leading part is still thin as yet, it gets up to the crown then to the third eye. It happens spontaniously now not just when meditating. With me it is as far as the third eye. what may happen now, hopefully by the Grace of God, is that the presence which is I that dwells in the spiritual heart rises up and joins with Kundalini at the third eye and then together as one rise into the crown chakra and on higher.
It is important to meditate with the tongue touching the roof of the mouth.

There are other indicators but that will do for the moment.

Thank you for your interest.

Chris
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:36 AM   #31
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I actually don't agree with this (with upmost respect and without judgement). I believe you have to say no to injustice etc... For me the key is to not be attached or become emotionally involved in difficult situations. I know I may have it wrong as acceptance and surrender are extremely important, however there is righteous anger (like Jesus with the money lenders).
There is no such thing as righteous anger (loss of control) that's just an excuse and just prooved Jesus was human like the rest of us.

As to justice - injustice - how can you have it without judgement. Judgement is an artifact of the ego.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

A..
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:40 AM   #32
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There is no such thing as righteous anger (loss of control) that's just an excuse and just prooved Jesus was human like the rest of us.

As to justice - injustice - how can you have it without judgement. Judgement is an artifact of the ego.

Judge not, that ye be not judged.

A..
Hello Anchor,

I have to go to work soon so won't be able to reply and I'm sorry if I digress.

But I believe in some instances judgements have to be made for example between good and evil. Do you believe in a just war? I believe one has to take a stand against evil and therefore make a judgement. For instance, the allies were right to fight Hitler and the Nazis.

Love,

Kriya
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:12 AM   #33
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Be humble. Don't put yourself above others. Be selfless. Simple.

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Old 12-15-2009, 07:24 AM   #34
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Hello Anchor,

I have to go to work soon so won't be able to reply and I'm sorry if I digress.

But I believe in some instances judgements have to be made for example between good and evil. Do you believe in a just war? I believe one has to take a stand against evil and therefore make a judgement. For instance, the allies were right to fight Hitler and the Nazis.

Love,

Kriya
There is no rush.

To answer your question I do not think there is any such thing as a just war - even if the true hidden hands that manipulated the world wars into being were revealed.

I am not inclined to take attacks on my person well, and I have not found the strength to turn the other cheek in the past. Practical survival sometimes has to trump spirituality because of that weakness. I am however developing a deepening trust that the universe - that system that supports me and takes care of me, allows me to experience will take care of me and keep me safe - if I don't deviate from the plan intended for me and defined by me pre-incarnation. Psalm 91 refers to something about the idea I am trying to express in a poetic and allegorical way.

Matthew 5:43-: "But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous."

That's enough biblical quoting from me.

War is a gross distortion - I maintain there is no just war.

A..
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:45 AM   #35
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

EGO Is it really you?

I am born...I am the son of the Prince of Wales...I'm in line to be the next king of England. Everything around me is rich and posh. I want for nothing. My freedom to go in the public is infringed by cameras and reporters...I was raised to lead a Country. Everything around me reflects who I am...it was my destiny to be a King.


I am born...I am the son of a poor man in South Central Los Angeles....my brother is a gang member...I don't know how to read and write properly...it was not a priority...I'm going to grow up to be a gang member.....it was my destiny to be a gang member.

These are reflections of Social Consciousness..being termed the identity...

It is from others that you get the idea of who you are. They shape your center. This center is false, because you carry your real center. That is nobody's business. Nobody shapes it. You come with it.
You are born with it.


So you have two centers. One center you come with, which is given by existence itself. That is the self. And the other center, which is created by the society, is the ego. It is a false thing - and it is a very great trick. Through the ego the society is controlling you. You have to behave in a certain way, because only then does the society appreciate you. You have to walk in a certain way; you have to laugh in a certain way; you have to follow certain manners, a morality, a code. Only then will the society appreciate you, and if it doesn't, you ego will be shaken. And when the ego is shaken, you don't know where you are, who you are. The others have given you the idea.
That idea is the ego.


Try to understand it as deeply as possible, because this has to be thrown. And unless you throw it you will never be able to attain to the self. Because you are addicted to the center, you cannot move, and you cannot look at the self. And remember, there is going to be an interim period, an interval, when the ego will be shattered, when you will not know who you are, when you will not know where you are going, when all boundaries will melt.
You will simply be confused, a chaos.
Because of this chaos, you are afraid to lose the ego. But it has to be so. One has to pass through the chaos before one attains to the real center.
And if you are daring, the period will be small.

We all have egos...it's getting to the center that counts..to get to the center..to attain the unlimited knowing...or you can forever stay where you believe you must stay with the ego....but it is not the real you...and my ego is not the real me....I am much more..and so are all of you
The ego is plastic..not real..

going to the real center..the self..the true self, everything changes, everything settles again. But now this settling is not done by the society. Now everything becomes a cosmos, not a chaos; a new order arises. But this is no longer the order of the society - it is the very order of existence itself.

It is what Buddha calls Dhamma, Lao Tzu calls Tao, Heraclitus calls Logos , it is unlimited KNOWING. It is not man-made. It is the VERY order of existence itself. Then everything is suddenly beautiful again, and for the first time really beautiful.

The difference is just like the difference between a real flower and a plastic or paper flower. The ego is a plastic flower - dead. It just looks like a flower, it is not a flower. You cannot really call it a flower. Even linguistically to call it a flower is wrong, because a flower is something which flowers. And this plastic thing is just a thing, not a flowering. It is dead. There is no life in it.
You have a flowering center within. That's why Hindus call it a lotus - it is a flowering. They call it the one-thousand-petaled-lotus. One thousand means infinite petals. And it goes on flowering, it never stops, it never dies.

This is not to say lose who you are..your self esteem, your self love...that is essential for you to co create. and to understand your self worth. But escape the self that the unbalanced ego has led you to believe you are, when you are dissatisfied with what society has projected in you..has created in you ..when you have the power to be that great being that is in you.

The key...a balance


Last edited by BROOK; 12-15-2009 at 07:57 AM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:47 AM   #36
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To me, Being holds the keys to Mastery.

As Carmen said, Mastering emotions is key part of the journey.

Each of us has an emotional body. The emotional Body is our Astral Body, the Astral realm is symbolized by water, it is the water realm.

Jesus story demonstrates our own path in overcoming the ego, and letting it die on the cross to Be reborn as who we are in Oneness with the I AM within rather than separate from it.

Early in Jesus mission, he walks on water. This symbolizes mastery of your emotional body. It is a step along the path to Christhood. Master your emotions by observing them rather than attaching yourself to them. You are More, you are the conscious Light beyond the emotions, not the emotions themselves.

I agree with Kriya in that I believe if we "Let things be as they are" then things will not turn out well, we are co-creators and this world is our charge, we reap as we sew.

Being is what is required.

Being means being fully present in the Now and letting the Divine work through us to shine the Light on the darkness of this world. Only when we shine the Light on darkness will it turn into Light.

To me, Being beyond ego doesn't mean sitting in cave meditating. It means taking dominion over our planet and letting the Divine within bring forth practical solutions that are required for humanities problems at this time.

Jesus chasing out the money changers symbolizes exposing the lies and hypocrisy in the religions of this world, the religions than deny the God in God's children and worship the Golden Calf, the Graven Image they have created of the God outside of themselves and turned it into a business.

Here is a great teaching that clearly explains, from a first person perspective, why Jesus chased the Money Changers out of the temple:

http://www.askrealjesus.com/P_JesusA...ychangers.html
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:15 AM   #37
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Your ego is here to look after your physical body, to make sure it gets enough to eat, to make sure it does not walk over the edge of a cliff or damage itself unknowingly. Your ego is the steward and potential master of all material-plane fears, an important and necessary component of your identity. However, your ego was never meant to provide you with your primary sense of self.
In a healthy state, the ego is a secondary component of identity.
In a healthy state, the Being behind all being, the self behind every self, the Great Spirit behind all of creation is experienced as your primary sense of self. Your ego does not have to be repressed or transcended for this to happen. It does not have to die. It simply has to assume an appropriate relationship with "the spirit that in truth you are", the spirit that wants to incarnate and take up residence in your body/mind/heart system.
Your ego is by nature a reflection. It can either be a good, sharp, clear reflection, or it can try to be an independent reflection. Yet logic shows there is no such thing as an "independent reflection." Your ego may create such an illusion; but if you believe in it, you will be troubled and unfulfilled.
When your ego stops "trying to do everything all by itself", and invites eternal spirit into your consciousness, your historical illusion evaporates like mist on a sunny morning. A polarity reversal takes place in the charge of your human envelope. The field of consciousness around you changes. Instead of your ego dominating your sense of identity and blocking your awareness of the Great Spirit, an eternal sense of self awakens within you. You know yourself as a projection of the Creator of all the stars in the sky. You know yourself as one of a family of god-beings, sharing God's Being. You remember. Everything is seen differently. The world is perceived anew through the eyes of a universal awareness. Your ego becomes your working partner, and you commence the conscious creation of a new human reality.
From "Return of the Bird Tribes", by Ken Carey
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Old 12-15-2009, 11:53 AM   #38
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There is a lot of interesting thoughts on the the tread and that is great.

Enlightenment is an egoless state as verified by every enlightened being.

Trouble is definition.

We are not the ego.

Atributes of what we are truly can mistakenly be attributed to the ego.

The ego is animalistic self serving at the expense of other.

Higher self looks after all our needs, the ego thinks otherwise.

The ego is a seperation device and seperates one from God ie duality.

Regarding war.

There is a big difference between instigating a war and defending by fighting.
It all comes down to intention.
It is honerable and nobel to defend country, family and self.
It is not honerable to say everything is all right and put the head in the sand.
However it comes down to integrity and context.
If your faith forbids you under any circumstances to shed anothers blood that is different. however that is personal the person may still be moved to lay down his life for family. Different circumstances but allways the spiritual intention is the deciding factor,

Hope this is helpful.

Regards Chris
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:29 PM   #39
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Hi...imo, the ego collectively and or individually affects the emotional body using past experiences and future desires as a means of achieving its status. This in turn further affects us mentally, spiritually and emotionally. We are our ego and it is not separate from us. Therefore we must learn from it and know when it comes into play. Simply put, absolutely everything that we experience comes down to a choice. It is you, i and us that chooses our experience...and when that is truly understood we can start to work with our ego and not for our ego. Peace always, mikey
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Old 12-15-2009, 12:30 PM   #40
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peace

Last edited by mikey; 12-15-2009 at 12:36 PM. Reason: accidental duplicate
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:07 PM   #41
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I would respectfully sugest that a good book to read on the subject is
Discovery of God ( Devotional Nonduality) by David R Hawkins MD Ph.D
Who is in the enlightened state.

A little about myself.
In my twenties I suffered Alcholism and through AA became a recovering alcholic. The twelve step program led me into the spiritual serch.
Up till then my ego was in control, it thought it could control my drinking Ha Ha!!!! I had to get enough humility to realise that only a power greater than myself could lead me to sanity. I had to hit rock bottom first.

I can thank my ego for leading me to the depth of suicidal dispare and therfore getting me on the path of enlightenment.

Im dyslexic so spelling I hope you forgive.

Anyway It became obvious that the only true way to learn anything was to listen to those who have done it, not theory or second hand, so the same applies to the spiritual path regarding enlightenment.

Aside from those in India (my avatar picture is the late Ramana) the only enlightened ones I know of are Eckhart Tolle and David Hawkins, im sure there are others.
Awake is not the same as enlightened.

The caterpiller becomes the butterfly its that different.

Only God (which we are) walks through the final door of enlightenment.
We are waves of the Divine Ocean. The Ocean can say it is the wave but the wave cannot say it is the Ocean.

There is a big difference between talking about it and being it.
Enlightend beings are it.
The ego likes to thing it can be an enlightened ego, sorry it cant.
Hope this is helpfull

With respect Chris
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Old 12-15-2009, 01:22 PM   #42
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Much love and festive blessings to you chris, thank you kindly for the reading recommendation, i shall chase it up. Peace always
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Old 12-15-2009, 02:16 PM   #43
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Much love and festive blessings to you chris, thank you kindly for the reading recommendation, i shall chase it up. Peace always
Same to you Mickey.
Much love Chris
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Old 12-15-2009, 03:28 PM   #44
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Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

the Acharya of Arunachala


you climbed up the calm mountain

and brought it back down


passing pebbles of peace to people

as if it is sweets to chew on


you look so humane there on the couch

walking with a stick wearing a cloth


you are a poor excuse for a man Bhagavan

I know what you are


A Column of Light
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:46 PM   #45
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Thank you for the poem re Ramanah.
He was one of my first teachers albiet by book.
One of the finest.

The ego can be trained and will become the spiritual ego which is no small achievement, however it can only take you so far before it is to be surendered to God if further progress is to be made.

The spiritual ego is very clever and will lay claim to being Co-Creator with God. Not so. God dosent require a Co Creator -- that is just a vanity of the ego.

Co-creator obviously is duality--- Him and me. Not Oneness.
God is incapable of creating negativity
Im paraphrasing David Hawkins in saying all that.

The ego is self centered and is responsible for every form of misery on this earth. At its worst it is Meglomania and responsible for all the wars.
At its best it will lay claim to being compasionate and perform good deeds but there is still the "Look at me how clever I am" agenda.
The egoless has no agenda but to serve as a channel for Gods work. That seems like duality but its not. The moment words are used its not it. The words can only point to the truth -- not be it. Its like being a branch of the tree of God.

The ego is not the enemy and it has got us this far, it is just not capable of Love as expressed by Jesus.
He said "Of myself I do nothing it is the Father within who is the doer."

Joy is our natural state. Nothing external causes that. Whaen all the obsticles to what we are are removed the Love/ joy just shines out, hence the term enlightend as in the poem re Ramanah. Saints are depicted with a halo, that is an indicator of the spiritual energy of love that radiates forth from them.

Love is like gravity it is a powerfull energy field it dosent have to do nything it just affects all that is attracted to it.

Love Chris

Last edited by greybeard; 12-15-2009 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:26 PM   #46
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Great comments above ~ and I like a lot of what you have said Greybeard (although I personally believe the reality is taht we are indeed free willed co-creators here to raise up our own planet ~ the question is whether we are co-creating from our human ego or co-creating from our very own I AM/ God Self)

Here's a good teaching on ego from Website already referenced above:

http://askrealjesus.com/G_Path/letegodie.html

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Old 12-15-2009, 06:32 PM   #47
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I would respectfully sugest that a good book to read on the subject is
Discovery of God ( Devotional Nonduality) by David R Hawkins MD Ph.D
Who is in the enlightened state.
Thanks for this greybeard,

I have not heard of David Hawkins and will check him out now.


Love,

Kriya
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:50 PM   #48
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14 Chakras.
Respect your obvious knowledge and have no way of personally refuting what you say and certainly at a high level this is so.
I can only point to statements by Hawkins and Eckhart and others of that level.

Have you heard of Indras dream? or the concept of the in breath and out breath of God?

Ramana said
"The world that you are trying to save dosent even exist"

For sure you do and I do exist and thats beyond dispute, that life is eternal I believe.

To higher beings enlightenment would be seen as kindergarten, so yes its endless as far as spiritual evolution goes.
That is my understanding.

As far as prayer goes, of course God does not need that either but we do influence outcome by praying. But who or what put the idea into our mind to pray?

The truth is I dont know, so refer to enlightened sages who certainly seem to.

Much respect to you

Chris
Namaste
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Old 12-15-2009, 06:55 PM   #49
kriya
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post


Ramana said
"The world that you are trying to save dosent even exist"

I think this is referring to the fact that life is a dream of God's and like our own dreams has no intrinsic existence. We were created out of thought, God's thought. We are living in a dream within a dream.

Love,

Kriya.
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Old 12-15-2009, 07:03 PM   #50
14 Chakras
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Default Re: The ego what is it? How to transcend?

(As you can see I edited and removed my last post as too many caps detracted I think from message).


I'm suggesting what's coming is East meets West.

Enlightened sages have been Eastern. Eastern is spiritual not material.

Western is material, up till now, hasn't been spiritual.

Eastern gurus help achieve enlightenment for those who really have no interest in the world or it's peoples other than the spiritual aspect. (Gross generalization I know)

I'm suggesting we are here in the West for a reason. East meets West. Spiritual meets Material.

Meaning ~ we are here to solve the problems in our world, bring abundance for All Life.

The leaders of the New Earth will be fully enlightened. There is indeed darkness in the world, and Eastern mystics have for the most part ignored.

It is not right that children are being abused and literally sacrificed by dark forces in our world. It is not right that the earth's populations are deceived.

What will solve these problems? While yes, a shift in consciousness, but what is truly required is for the Light to Be shined on the darkness. Meaning we throw over the money changers tables and expose the lies in the current system, religions and illusions of the world.

We are co-creators I would certainly say, and it's up to us to choose to Be in order to do our part to Be the Body of God which will raise up this planet. Our strength comes from our Oneness with our source ~ beyond ego our Divine Self.

I suggest the in breath out breath has been mis-interpreted in our world to mean loss of individuality. I would suggest the in breath is really everything coming up higher and Being More in Oneness ~ meaning maintaining the I but the "I"s are expanding ~ For example, when Yogananda ascends, he does not disappear, you can connect with Yogananda right Now if you choose to do so ~ We are not here to disappear, we are here to earn our Divine individuality in the mind of God by surrendering the shadow self and Being reborn into the reality of who we are in Oneness with the infinite ~ not a static image, but the God Self that is always Being More ~ I will Be that I will Be.
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