Vegetarians or Vegans?

[Karen]

bump

[Swanny]

Please remember true Vegetarians dont eat fish

[Kulapops]

Can I say that I'm now a Vegan that eats meat and dairy ?!

Well, I'm a bit confused, about six months ago I read Raymond Francis' book, Never Be Sick Again... and of course that got me thinking about the hormones in meat, and the pesticides on fruit and veg...and that dairy is bad for you.

So I switched to soya and have stopped eating cheese.

Then I read Colin Campbell's 'The China Study', which suggests that consuming high levels of animal protein is not healthy for you, or rather it promotes cancer (common sense when you think that protein aids growth - why not cancer growth?!) and other conditions like heart disease and diabetes.

Ok... so that's put me off meat too. My last two girlfriends were vegetarian (before readin these) so I'm already used to not eating meat every day.

But I hate to give anything up totally. I rarely buy meat or fish at all now (one mackerel fillet is about all in the last 8 weeks!). But if I'm in a restuarant then I may well eat what I like. I'm more concerned about the Protein/Carbohydrate combining than whether I'm eating dead flesh or not!)

For health reasons, I think the non-dairy, meat free diet is best, but there's no harm in having the occasional think you enjoy, even if it is a cappucino !



K

P.S. As for the spiritual aspect, I saw the meat van outside the butchers the other day and I really saw the carcasses as cadavers, distinctly. So I think your awareness does change. I used to worry , or think that in a survival situation, I'd have to know how to skin a rabbit. Now I see that's ridiculous. Better to learn what plants you can eat, and eat them instead. I don't particularly want to kill squirrels, they're way too cute

[rhythm]

All animals have a life

do we realy need to take it

so we can eat ....

NO NO NO !!!

meat eaters

that on your plate

is dead flesh ...

sorry feel real strong in this one

dont cate realy if you dont like what

i have to say .. more interested in

tha life of animals .... no pretence here

pok is pigs

beef is cows

veal is deer

human being are human beings ....

[Swanny]

Rhythm your writing is invisable, think you need to change your text colour.

Kula sorry mate but I read that soya is really bad for you

[artvision]

Question for the meat eaters:

What is the difference from meat and this?

http://theseoultimes.com/ST/?url=/ST...659fdae3da716a

[Kulapops]

Artvision. Ugh... that is really, really sick. Those photos. Just shows you what humans can bring themselves to do.

Does make you question if the one child per family law has any bearing on driving this. that is...lots of abortions, lots of 'product' to market.

I see your point Artvision, but I still personally wouldn't class eating a young animal (calf, lamb, chicken) as being the same as eating an unborn human foetus. It's a different race for a start and a foetus. That's my opinion though, everyone's entitled to their view. I do agree though that eating meat, or other flesh at all is perhaps not the most natural thing for our race to do. Perverting nature and bending its laws hoewver seems to be something we're pretty good at doing. I like the thought of eating meat less and less as I eat less and less. Funny that ?

On a lighter note... Soya is bad for you ??

Hot diggity Swanny ! Show me the proof, c'mon, I want youtube videos, scientific papers and any links showing what type of soya and how...

I'm only having it on Weetabix... (don't tell me that's bad for you too ?!). Takes me almost ten days to get through a carton. I'm pretty sure it's healthier than drinking milk every day.

K

[artvision]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

Artvision. Ugh... that is really, really sick. Those photos. Just shows you what humans can bring themselves to do.

Does make you question if the one child per family law has any bearing on driving this. that is...lots of abortions, lots of 'product' to market.

Yes indeed, these are abhorrent and shocking pics, I stayed much thinking to show or not to show. But if we want to be truth with ourselves, this is the reality and we are not supposed to pamper ourselves, here.

Originally Posted by Kulapops

I see your point Artvision, but I still personally wouldn't class eating a young animal (calf, lamb, chicken) as being the same as eating an unborn human foetus. It's a different race for a start and a foetus. K

Supposedly, there is another race that is looking also to us as food, there is no difference for them, between human flesh or animal flash. To be truthful with ourselves we are different races, but same, living creatures. Some of "specialists" bring the reason that we are OK to kill and eat animals because they are not thinking, or they are not felling, etc. This is a stupid excuse, as all animals have a nervous system of their own and have feelings and for sure they have sentiments, and a conscious live, we are not aware off or denying it.

By no means we are supposed to kill them, they are creatures of God, in the immensity of His Creation.

Originally Posted by Kulapops

On a lighter note... Soya is bad for you ??

Yes, indeed, seems soy has many estrogen hormones, making man more effeminate and decrease the sperm count and mobility. Indeed this issue could be used as an eugenic weapon, if you ask me.

So, my idea is that Illuminati took this correct percept of not eating meat, that they are very aware off (for example Hitler was vegetarian, etc) but they give a twist in their desired direction, giving people bad advises, promoting not healthy foods (soy, etc) for their eugenic purpose.

[efields]

Originally Posted by Karen

bump

Do you think your salad isn't YELLING as you Eat It.

[Karen]

Originally Posted by efields

Do you think your salad isn't YELLING as you Eat It.

Oh I know it is. I bumped this thread to move the pro vegan talk over here as I believe all life, all existence is sacred. On planet earth life lives off eating other life. I think it's the attitude of gratitude and reverence for all things that has been lost, and needs to be restored in ALL aspects of human life. Yes, the book, The Secret Life of Plants explains it all - at how the plants scream and react also.

In the thread I started I am giving the evidence that the vast majority of people cannot be healthy on strict vegan diet. So I will have the courtesy to leave here now and go back to my thread.
http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ad.php?t=14114

[Swanny]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

I'm only having it on Weetabix... (don't tell me that's bad for you too ?!). Takes me almost ten days to get through a carton. I'm pretty sure it's healthier than drinking milk every day.

K

Sorry again but our bodies arent designed to digest wheat

If you dont put milk on them what do you??
Water? Yuk!!!

[Karen]

Originally Posted by Swanny

Sorry again but our bodies arent designed to digest wheat

If you dont put milk on them what do you??
Water? Yuk!!!

I used to put juice on cereal sometimes. YUM!
Now I don't eat boxed cereal any more -

Snippet from a long article at
http://www.westonaprice.org/foodfeatures/be_kind.html

Be Kind to Your Grains
...And Your Grains Will Be Kind To You

But many healthy societies consume products made from grains. In fact, it can be argued that the cultivation of grains made civilization possible and opened the door for mankind to live long and comfortable lives. Problems occur when we are cruel to our grains-when we fractionate them into bran, germ and naked starch; when we mill them at high temperatures; when we extrude them to make crunchy breakfast cereals; and when we consume them without careful preparation.

Grains require careful preparation because they contain a number of antinutrients that can cause serious health problems. Phytic acid, for example, is an organic acid in which phosphorus is bound. It is mostly found in the bran or outer hull of seeds. Untreated phytic acid can combine with calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc in the intestinal tract and block their absorption. This is why a diet high in improperly prepared whole grains may lead to serious mineral deficiencies and bone loss. The modern misguided practice of consuming large amounts of unprocessed bran often improves colon transit time at first but may lead to irritable bowel syndrome and, in the long term, many other adverse effects.

[TheObserver]

Omnivore, carnivore, or herbivore, eat what you want, don't tell others what to eat, drink or smoke and be merry for tomorrow we may die!

[chelmostef]

Originally Posted by TheObserver

Omnivore, carnivore, or herbivore, eat what you want, don't tell others what to eat, drink or smoke and be merry for tomorrow we may die!

I agree, thanks for adding that..

[Kulapops]

Originally Posted by artvision

Yes indeed, these are abhorrent and shocking pics, I stayed much thinking to show or not to show. But if we want to be truth with ourselves, this is the reality and we are not supposed to pamper ourselves, here.




Supposedly, there is another race that is looking also to us as food, there is no difference for them, between human flesh or animal flash. To be truthful with ourselves we are different races, but same, living creatures. Some of "specialists" bring the reason that we are OK to kill and eat animals because they are not thinking, or they are not felling, etc. This is a stupid excuse, as all animals have a nervous system of their own and have feelings and for sure they have sentiments, and a conscious live, we are not aware off or denying it.

By no means we are supposed to kill them, they are creatures of God, in the immensity of His Creation.





Yes, indeed, seems soy has many estrogen hormones, making man more effeminate and decrease the sperm count and mobility. Indeed this issue could be used as an eugenic weapon, if you ask me.

So, my idea is that Illuminati took this correct percept of not eating meat, that they are very aware off (for example Hitler was vegetarian, etc) but they give a twist in their desired direction, giving people bad advises, promoting not healthy foods (soy, etc) for their eugenic purpose.

Soy = Estrogen ? I thought my curtains were looking lovely this last couple of weeks...

And yes, swanny, I know about the wheat thing too... but at least whole wheat is better than refined wheat.

And like someone said... all this proper diet and healthy eating, you might live another 10 years ! ... But it will feel like 20

Artvision, I agree (looky me ! I'm still posting, sub hasn't quite run out yet ) they've all got nervous systems, feelings et al. If I end a chicken's life, I'd accept I'm not just culling a bit of life, but ending a part of the bioweb. So that means I agree ditto with efields - that carrot is screaming as you pull it out of the ground 'Stop..stopstop stop stopopsttsttstop. op. ' It wants to live and feel the same as any turkey, just a slightly different level.

So logically we come back to eating fruit then. Hallelujah. Something we can eat and not feel guilty about. But maybe the guilt is the interesting part. In a book I'm reading at the mo, Fit for Life by Harvey Diamond, he mentions that 12 million years ago (ok, that is a long time if you're a creationist. Anyone? ) we were all eating fruit. In fact that is what our hands are perfectly adapted for. Not ripping and gutting.

That's exactly why, when we see a squirrel go by, our instinct is not to rip its head off and stuff it in our gobs...but to go... 'ahh... cutesy-ustesy little fella... does-ee want a nut then ?' So maybe our guilt trip that easily comes about eating meat and/or plants has a link back to those time.

But do I care about the fruit ? NO !

Bring me the head of Alfredo Pineapple

K

P.S. Yes, I agree... chelmostef , everyone should not be told what to eat or what to wear or what to think... it's a personal journey...

[chelmostef]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

Soy = Estrogen ? I thought my curtains were looking lovely this last couple of weeks...

And yes, swanny, I know about the wheat thing too... but at least whole wheat is better than refined wheat.

And like someone said... all this proper diet and healthy eating, you might live another 10 years ! ... But it will feel like 20

Artvision, I agree (looky me ! I'm still posting, sub hasn't quite run out yet ) they've all got nervous systems, feelings et al. If I end a chicken's life, I'd accept I'm not just culling a bit of life, but ending a part of the bioweb. So that means I agree ditto with efields - that carrot is screaming as you pull it out of the ground 'Stop..stopstop stop stopopsttsttstop. op. ' It wants to live and feel the same as any turkey, just a slightly different level.

So logically we come back to eating fruit then. Hallelujah. Something we can eat and not feel guilty about. But maybe the guilt is the interesting part. In a book I'm reading at the mo, Fit for Life by Harvey Diamond, he mentions that 12 million years ago (ok, that is a long time if you're a creationist. Anyone? ) we were all eating fruit. In fact that is what our hands are perfectly adapted for. Not ripping and gutting.

That's exactly why, when we see a squirrel go by, our instinct is not to rip its head off and stuff it in our gobs...but to go... 'ahh... cutesy-ustesy little fella... does-ee want a nut then ?' So maybe our guilt trip that easily comes about eating meat and/or plants has a link back to those time.

But do I care about the fruit ? NO !

Bring me the head of Alfredo Pineapple

K

P.S. Yes, I agree... chelmostef , everyone should not be told what to eat or what to wear or what to think... it's a personal journey...

It was over a year ago I started this thread I have to say I was a little shocked when it appeared again, some have a good memory.. Maybe mines a liitle rusty form all the soya I eat, but who knows. For me things have changed from a year ago, my opinions have changed, I feel more whole as person now than I did then. I am still vegan and feeling better every day. I do respect every ones opinion, completly. Its not my place to judge anyone, I firmly believe this.
I have somthing in me from a small child thats stuck up for the minority or down trodden. I guess this has moved to animals as I have grown up. Humans can be so cruel to each other, well to every thing around them realy. But its not my place to judge.

Life is complicated and we all have a parts to fill.

P.S

Kula your comment about the head of a Alfredo Pineapple certainly made me chuckle.

p.p.s I also have better curtains now, nice ones with frily bits on (I've allways wondered why)

Stef

[Swanny]

Originally Posted by Kulapops

Soy = Estrogen ? I thought my curtains were looking lovely this last couple of weeks...

Hehe watch out next thing you'll be buying matching cushions

I agree with TheObserver, time is short so enjoy it while you can

[Kulapops]

Ooh...cushions ! with tassles on ?

How about a 'throw' to finish off the look ?

Yeah... if being on Avalon has taught me one thing, it's that time is short. Especially if I spend it here

Still I much more understand now why vegetarians can't bear the thought of eating meat, that's what prevents them, it's just something inside that kicks in.

I feel the same way now about combining foods improperly ! Get me ?! Yes, you certainly come a long way in a year if you're searching, don't you? !

Now back to finishing off my antimacassas...

K