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Old 03-04-2010, 03:47 PM   #26
Stardustaquarion
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Originally Posted by orthodoxymoron View Post
Thank-you for posting this Anchor. Perhaps we need to be saved from our saviors.
Namaste
The problem is to identify why we need saviours and why we can not save ourselves

While there is much to re member is always useful to ask oneself if what it is on offer helps to empower or disempower oneself

Most of the free information out there is plain bs tha one can spend lifetimes reading and finish empty handed

The alarm bells for me start sounding when someone says follow me...you don't need to think or know just follow me I know what I am doing.....

Love
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Old 03-04-2010, 03:52 PM   #27
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A lot of people have no idea they are even in a cult. By increments they are led piece by piece down the path thinking it IS in line with their freewill. It's only much later one might look back and say ...hmmmmm. Sometimes the cult leaders start out with good intentions , but go bad. Power corrupts, the ego is a hungry monkey and there are plenty of well meaning people with peanuts galore to give away.

I maintain the thought that nobody is who you think they are online until you have met them in the flesh, that's kind of why we have bodies. The body picks up many things the brain alone does not and the internet is an ideal place for role playing and editing . So many people just dying to give away their power. I guess because they want to be part of something greater.
You already are.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:16 PM   #28
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Don't mess with the Thubans!! The Empire might strike back!! This could result in the Thuban Missile Crisis!!
Here is a lecture given at MIT regarding how good people turn evil. http://mitworld.mit.edu/video/459 This lecture can help to explain how leaders and followers can go downhill...sometimes very quickly. I think this applies to the 'cult' topic. The following introduction was taken from the MIT website:

Perhaps no one comprehends the roots of depravity and cruelty better than Philip Zimbardo. He is renowned for such research as the Stanford Prison Experiment, which demonstrated how, in the right circumstances, ordinary people can swiftly become amoral monsters. Evil is not so much inherent in individuals, Zimbardo showed, but emerges dependably when a sequence of dehumanizing and stressful circumstances unfolds. It is no wonder then, that Zimbardo has lent both his expertise and moral outrage to the case of U.S. reservists who perpetrated the abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.

Zimbardo’s latest book, The Lucifer Effect, attempts to understand “how good people do evil deeds.” His talk outlines his involvement as expert witness for the defense team of one of the military police officers responsible at Abu Ghraib, and also provides a rich history of psychological research into the kind of behavior transformations evident in Iraq. First, Zimbardo presents a slideshow of Abu Ghraib abominations, including some digital photos that were not widely distributed by the media. Then he digs deep into the archives for a horrifically illustrated tour of experiments that make a persuasive case that certain, predictable situations corrupt people into wielding power in a destructive way.

He describes Stanley Milgram’s 1963 Yale-based research demonstrating that people will behave sadistically when confronted by “an authority in a lab coat.” A vast majority of the subjects delivered what they were told were dangerous electric shocks to a learner in another room, to the point of apparently killing the other person. Researchers skeptical of his results replicated them. This time, professors demanded that students shock real puppies standing on electrified grills. Zimbardo’s own prison experiment turned an ordinary group of young men into power-hungry “guards,” humiliating equally ordinary “prisoners” in the basement of Stanford’s psychology building. The descent into barbarity was so rapid that Zimbardo had to cancel the experiment after a few days.

The recipe for behavior change isn’t complicated. “All evil begins with a big lie,” says Zimbardo, whether it’s a claim to be following the word of God, or the need to stamp out political opposition. A seemingly insignificant step follows, with successive small actions, presented as essential by an apparently just authority figure. The situation presents others complying with the same rules, perhaps protesting, but following along all the same. If the victims are anonymous or dehumanized somehow, all the better. And exiting the situation is extremely difficult.

Abu Ghraib fit this type of situation to a T, says Zimbardo. The guards, never trained for their work helping military interrogators, worked 12-hour shifts, 40 days without a break, in chaotic, filthy conditions, facing 1,000 foreign prisoners, and hostile fire from the neighborhood. They operated in extreme stress, under orders to impose fear on their prisoners. Zimbardo believes the outcome was perfectly predictable, and while never absolving these soldiers of personal responsibility, believes justice won’t be done until “the people who created the situation go on trial as well: George Tenet, Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and George Bush.”

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom

Last edited by orthodoxymoron; 03-04-2010 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:24 PM   #29
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Great thread, Anchor.

As an ex-Jehovah's Witness, I can attest to the power of the cult
influence and the difficulty one can encounter when disentangling.

I have not had a relationship with numerous family members for over 14 years
due to leaving this particular cult....

I think this particular experience served multiple purposes for
me and was integral to my growth. Painful, but necessary....

Last edited by FIIISH; 03-04-2010 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:25 PM   #30
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Excellent post Anchor! One we should all heed its message


I couldn't help but wonder about the timing of it

As we are working on necessary 'triggers' to transcend their duality

It is remarkable how the deepest most misunderstood energy we have yet to understand fully would be of a sexual nature


It has triggered an enormous amount of negativity here when just hours ago we were all loving one another

Just an observation

I love you all Truthfully Profoundly and Honestly

Mary
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Old 03-04-2010, 04:29 PM   #31
Stardustaquarion
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Hi orthodoxymoron

Thank you for your post, will read it later. I posted a link to another theory/book yesterday that deals with cognitive disonance (mistakes were made but not by me - booK )

The way people come to terms with things that are unethical is by telling themselves that they are doing it for the good of humanity Is a form of self lie. Of course there is always a boss and money or salaries involved, black mail etc.

I don't know how the bosses deal with it but I am sure is the same principle "oh you ignorant mortals, the world will be better without you" or "we are better than you therefore we deserve more" kind of thing

When I read the book my jaw dropped

Many people justify their behaviour by saying "oh is just business" as if the fact that they are producing money is a kind of license to kill

The root of the problem seems to be the philosophy of "survival of the fitest" and "the end justify the means"

Awfully interesting

Love
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:02 PM   #32
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1. Great thread, Anchor. A tough, and valuable lesson for people to learn.

2. If the term "Cognitive Dissonance" is new to anyone, here is a short (10 paragraphs) description of the term, and how it works.

Fred
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:14 PM   #33
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Fantastic Information Anchor, as usual coming from you

You have a fantastic insight


IMO, all religious organizations would be considered a cult.
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Old 03-04-2010, 06:44 PM   #34
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Good article on cognitive dissonance, Fredkc. For example , on this forum, and we know that IS what we are really talking about, there is a lot of feeling if you are not positive and telling everybody you love them all the damn time that you are a curmudgeon. Fine, so be it. I dont love ANYONE on this forum, I don't actually KNOW anyone here, but the love thing and valueing it , makes people afraid of anything that might upset the apple cart, or Bill and Kerry having a split, or Thuban whatever causing hard feelings.
I DON'T CARE , what I care about is the truth and what that means to me. I still wish everyone " love " here, but it ain't personal, and if I don't like something, if I can be bothered, and if I think it might be useful I will say my piece, and that's why a lot of mind control goes over my head. Precisely because I don't care what anyone here thinks of me.
A wise woman I heard lecture a long time ago asked a room full of people what they would sell out for. Many people responded that they thought most people did for money and power, she shocked a lot of people by simply asking," and what about love?"
If I don't have a meal, or say, a disagreement with someone, then how can I know who the hell they are? I have no idea who Bill and Kerry are, so how would I really know their intentions?
I have no doubt that to some people here, this IS a cult.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
My humble request is that you carefully assess the motives behind all of the online structures and organizations that you encounter on the internet. Do this just as you would structures and organizations in real life, examine them in the light of common sense and allow the infinite inner love and wisdom guide your actions.
Having been "out amung'em" in this arena for nearly 35 years, I would strongly suggest you not limit this advice to the online arena.

Fred's 2 cents worth
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:58 PM   #36
orthodoxymoron
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Good article on cognitive dissonance, Fredkc. For example , on this forum, and we know that IS what we are really talking about, there is a lot of feeling if you are not positive and telling everybody you love them all the damn time that you are a curmudgeon. Fine, so be it. I dont love ANYONE on this forum, I don't actually KNOW anyone here, but the love thing and valueing it , makes people afraid of anything that might upset the apple cart, or Bill and Kerry having a split, or Thuban whatever causing hard feelings.
I DON'T CARE , what I care about is the truth and what that means to me. I still wish everyone " love " here, but it ain't personal, and if I don't like something, if I can be bothered, and if I think it might be useful I will say my piece, and that's why a lot of mind control goes over my head. Precisely because I don't care what anyone here thinks of me.
A wise woman I heard lecture a long time ago asked a room full of people what they would sell out for. Many people responded that they thought most people did for money and power, she shocked a lot of people by simply asking," and what about love?"
If I don't have a meal, or say, a disagreement with someone, then how can I know who the hell they are? I have no idea who Bill and Kerry are, so how would I really know their intentions?
I have no doubt that to some people here, this IS a cult.
What a profound comment swordsmith! Benevolent neutrality may be a good thing. Love often equals Submission. I don't love or hate the Thubans (if they exist). I don't love or hate demonic beings (I know they exist). I just want the truth...and a more sane way to manage the insanity. Please watch the entire M.I.T. video. It gets better and more relevant as it procedes. This is subtle stuff folks. None of us are above being taken-in by all manner of BS. None of us should be here trying to win a popularity contest. I know that I post things that make people angry. I don't do it to be mean. I do it to try to make things better...whether anyone likes it or not.

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:12 PM   #37
Stardustaquarion
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What a profound comment swordsmith! Benevolent neutrality may be a good thing. Love often equals Submission.

Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom
Well this is the problem, unconditional love is unconditional but uncompromisable as well

If we compromise our principles to be popular we begin a cycle of cognitive disonance and co dependency

Sometimes, tough love is more real than pleasing people because that way people have the opportunity to see things that may assist them

There is a lot of confusion in the world about what love means. From my perspective love can not be conditional or be held to expectations, that is not love is need

Lovehonestly
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:14 PM   #38
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Interesting you brought this up. The first thing that came to mind is David Wilcock's forum at divinecosmos.com.

--sjkted
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:20 PM   #39
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Oh MAN that video is funny!
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:20 PM   #40
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and actually, I am a very loving person. In the personal realm it grows naturally from experience and trust, in the impersonal realm, such as here, it is only because I care immensely that I post at all . Wishing the best for all means we have to be on our toes in order to SEE the way the wool is constantly pulled over our eyes all under the guise of our own projected good intentions . I can not say it enough the projections are what enable the bad peope to get away with it and they LOVE it,( theres the love word for you.)
Many actually operate from the place of the glorification of their own egos even if they latch on to a good cause. So much the better and easier, especially amongst a bunch of people who are primed to believe we are all one. No we are not, but we may soon have the ability to telepathically undertsand the ways in which we are and aren't. Unfortunately, I am pretty strong on this so when people are not aligned with highest purpose, it sticks out, and there is plenty of it right here .
Having visited LA once was enough to give me a good example of what passed for acceptable amongst that sort of mind set. If anyone is selling you something ,take notice.
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Old 03-04-2010, 08:36 PM   #41
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great post anchor..i feel there is a reason why you posted it now....
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:31 PM   #42
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great post anchor..i feel there is a reason why you posted it now....
Well there is a reason: basically I posted it after I finished writing it, which took an oddly protracted period of time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthWillSetUFree View Post
I couldn't help but wonder about the timing of it

...

It has triggered an enormous amount of negativity here when just hours ago we were all loving one another
As I said the timing has to do with the catalysts playing in my life and the results of my own personal review of the situations as they unfold. Many of us have benefited in the extreme recently from much of the material posted on this entire forum.

Read the posts of Jack, MyPlanet2, Malletzky etc Wonderful glimpses of higher order thinking that coax us ever onward in our personal journeys.

I don't agree that negativity has been released. This is not about positivity nor is it negativity; in my view wisdom is not polarized this way, wisdom is simply wisdom, and it is the wisdom that causes the resonance phenomena not positivity or negativity. Negativity and positivity are necessary artefacts of our 3D matrix lives, but certainly not of the matrix where we are going and some of us already glimpse.

If there is any polarity to wisdom it would be love. Love and Wisdom are the next fronteir for most of us to balance. We are nearly done with the 3D artifice of negativity and positivity - and still I hear references to them that echo fear and conditioning.

Cutting with the sword of truth involves destruction - is that negative?

A..

Last edited by Anchor; 03-05-2010 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:39 PM   #43
Anchor
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oh boy!

GRENADE!!

*leaps for cover*
lol

I thought that would happen.

The main drivers I think that motivated me to do this were emails and communication through private channels that have come since I de-moderated myself, which have led me to conclude that the advice to discriminate before you assimilate needed reinforcement. Perhaps with the move away from actively moderating the forum, I have more time!

I realise that this could be seen to only apply or be "targeted" at the Thuban material and yes the timing would suggest that is one of the catalysts for me doing the work above. Not completely the case. One should consider what is being done to this forum in terms of re-organization, how it has been in the past. All the organizational structures that you are presented with in life must be subjected to rigorous review and testing. Not all of them are good for you!

From time to time I have felt moved to write up some advice, whether it be about the changing energetic environment of the matrix we exist in and the likely effects this has on us (crazy times!) or the simple practise of taking a freezing cold shower everyday, or improving some aspects of organization in your life to prepare to meet some types of material inconvenience in an orderly manner.

Here is one very pertinent example from the past, I posted this over a year ago, please read it in the context of this thread:

http://www.projectavalon.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=1999

I'm with Krishnamurti; truth indeed is a pathless land. One may walk those paths with companions for a time, but each of us must retain, unconditionally, full responsibility and accountability for each step we take on the pathless walk to truth.

With respect to the Thuban Q&A material: I have not changed my mind. I stand by my statements that I made in that thread, true when I made them and still true, which was that I found resonance within for some of the Thuban Q&A material presented in that thread; in particular the answers to the questions that I asked. This is a personal matter and not one that should guide the thinking of others.

I have also been asked if this is still true (since the close/open of the thread), and I am sorry to disappoint you but I do not have an opinion that I want to express about it since I fully respect the freewill of others and do not want to set myself up in giving judgement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by krishnamurti from post above
This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do. Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented. Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley....

So that is the first reason, from my point of view, why the Order of the Star should be dissolved. In spite of this, you will probably form other Orders, you will continue to belong to other organisations searching for Truth. I do not want to belong to any organisation of a spiritual kind; please understand this....

If an organisation be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery for himself of that absolute, unconditioned Truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, as I happen to be the Head of the Order, to dissolve it.
AJ..
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Old 03-05-2010, 12:54 AM   #44
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When we’re kids we need to follow and even obey our parents. Partly it’s for self-preservation. Also, we copy our parents because they are our prime examples of what is a human being. By the age of five we’ve largely forgotten how much who we consider we are is a copy of our parents.

Then we’re conditioned, brainwashed to follow teachers, probably priests/ministers/rabbis/etc, and then bosses, all the time taking it mostly as gospel that they know better than we do. Ouch! And pretending it isn't a type of gradual torture of the soul and of our magnificence.

In these ways and others, from since before we can even speak we get the habit that we can’t take the main responsibility for our own lives, our own souls. We’re so used to leaning on crutches, we can’t clearly imagine any more what it would be like to throw all the crutches away. We no longer consciously realize that the crutches are there, even. Unfortunately, that seems to be true of the great majority of people. 99%. All the statistics and surveys show that the people who join cults of any kind are as a group considerably more intelligent than average. Notice: they join cults because they believe more, fancier crutches are the only way to greater “strength”.

I believe this is why nearly everybody has lost touch, or lost trust, with what their own personal truth really is. In my experience it takes a lot of listening to and developing your heart (your intuition). But that then needs to be combined with some use of your critical intellect to observe how you are actually living your life.
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:53 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Fredkc View Post
1. Great thread, Anchor. A tough, and valuable lesson for people to learn.

2. If the term "Cognitive Dissonance" is new to anyone, here is a short (10 paragraphs) description of the term, and how it works.

Fred
Thank you so much Fred for this text. I bookmarked it. Spot on!

Namaste, Steven
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:31 AM   #46
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I was once in a cult but I decided to manifest fabulous weath by keeping my money.
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:08 AM   #47
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Interesting Cult Video.



They use humor but someone did their homework for this video, its like Cult's 101.
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Old 03-07-2010, 01:45 PM   #48
Stardustaquarion
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Interesting Cult Video.



They use humor but someone did their homework for this video, its like Cult's 101.
Awesome, great! Thank you
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Old 03-07-2010, 05:22 PM   #49
Stardustaquarion
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Having been "out amung'em" in this arena for nearly 35 years, I would strongly suggest you not limit this advice to the online arena.

Fred's 2 cents worth
Very insigtfull, thank you
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:50 PM   #50
Aztar
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Very insigtfull, thank you
Glad you liked it, i was surprised they got so much basic information in such a short video.
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