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Old 09-08-2008, 04:38 PM   #1
shaundelear
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Default Poor Gary Mckinnon

I would like to show some support for poor Gary.
This poor guy has been thoughily hung out to dry.
Yes he broached the NASA networks but how easily?
The law has failed to protect him after he has complied to all the conditions they gave him.
They extridited him on dodgy laws that UK citizens are not aware of.
America can accuse a UK citizen and Britain just hands them over?
They verbaly tried to trick him .
Now they want to give him just under 100years because he highlighted thier failings.
Even the European court stitched him up.
Seem to remember in the interview Kerry bringing up the subject-
"what if they cant get a hold of you ?"
On reflection I'd bet he'd rather have taken Kerry up on that and just dissapeared.
But no he stood tall did the right thing and they are going to crucify him .
I think his trial will be very interesting hes been on TV/news and basically admited it and then got out the very stuff that they would hide from us,
How he did it, how easy it was and what he was looking for.
For this I believe they are making him pay.He made a fool of them.
You've just got to love his bottle -very UK.
Good luck Gary my heart goes out to you.
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Old 09-08-2008, 06:35 PM   #2
King Lear
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

I cannot believe how slavish the UK and EU is to the US Goverment.
The USA does not sign any treaty that would lead to extradition of any of their citizens, especially soldiers and polticians.

Otherwise the whole Bush Administration would sit now or from next year on in Den Haag next to Karadzic.

SHAME on the EU, giving protest notes to Russia or China bacause of less Democracy but handing over citizen to a criminal Administration and a even worser prison system!

Unbeliveable that they claim every computer Gary entered shall be worth $5,000 and that he even damaged every computer he entered, ridiculous.

But even more ridiculous is that they want to send him to Guantanmo for this minor crime.

What does the US Goverment fear so much, as far as I know Gary couldnt save any picture? Perhaps they only want him to improve their systems and then let him go, I very much hope so for him.




Last edited by King Lear; 09-08-2008 at 06:45 PM.
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Old 09-08-2008, 06:55 PM   #3
Bill Ryan
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Default Re: Poor Gary McKinnon

Hi, KL:

That is one great graphic.

May we send this to him? We're in close touch. We'd invite him to post here, but he's legally prohibited from using a computer.

As you may have read on Camelot, we've been working behind the scenes to organize him a US lawyer, and also passing on other information that might help.

You may also know that Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell have gone on record to say that they will be willing to be called to the witness box under penalty of perjury to state what they know about the secret space program. This is pretty huge... more on this later.

Very best, Bill
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:02 PM   #4
peacelovinman
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Please pass on my support to Gary. Be very interesting to hear Burisch's and McDowell's testimony if the case did get to trial; however, I fear the USA administration would more likely lock Gary up and throw away the key.

We here in the UK need to get on to that worm Milliband and create as much merry hell as possible.
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:21 PM   #5
TheGhost
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Bill: didn't Gordon Novel offer help? I think it is time that Gary took up Gordon's offer!
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:48 PM   #6
mikey
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

It is disgusting how Gary is being treated when looking at the whole thing...

I have a feeling we havent heard the end of Gary and his fight for justice..and ultimately our fight for justice with him. This could well open a tin of very squiggily worms and i for one want for nothing else!

Indeed Bill is right, great graphic King Lear...

peace

bananaman
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:27 PM   #7
King Lear
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Default Re: Poor Gary McKinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Ryan View Post
Hi, KL:

That is one great graphic.

May we send this to him? We're in close touch. We'd invite him to post here, but he's legally prohibited from using a computer.

As you may have read on Camelot, we've been working behind the scenes to organize him a US lawyer, and also passing on other information that might help.

You may also know that Dan Burisch and Marci McDowell have gone on record to say that they will be willing to be called to the witness box under penalty of perjury to state what they know about the secret space program. This is pretty huge... more on this later.

Very best, Bill

I'm very appreciatedof course you can use and send it Bill!
That's why I posted it here.

I wish him all the best and I'm curious what will come out.



Also thanks to bananaman
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Old 09-08-2008, 08:59 PM   #8
uniconr
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

the odds are that the 'trial' will be closed court, you know, matter of national security, no media..
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:29 PM   #9
Free-UFO-Videos
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Smile Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon


I support Disclosure and truth about outer space matters.
And I like Gary's personality.
And I would never want to hurt the guy.

But hacking into NASA computers is not the way.
I don't break the law to find out about extraterrestrials and UFOs.

He should have done what Project Camelot did.
Or he should have made dozens of UFO forums
and UFO websites like friends and I did.

We know what is happening on Earth and in Space.
And we didn't commit a crime to learn.

If I owned Area51, I would sentence him in the USA,
put him in jail, then move him to a special jail with a special jail cell
with comforts, a computer, broadband, and nice food, and be friends
with him. Not as a slave, but very good team work, care, respect,
and together do what Gary wanted ... hack (bad dudes) and study
outer space matters.

For the good of all Humanity!





_______________________________________________

Last edited by Free-UFO-Videos; 09-10-2008 at 06:58 AM. Reason: font
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Old 09-08-2008, 09:42 PM   #10
Jacqui D
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

What gary did was very silly, but you get so sick of all this ufo info being hidden from you i can understand in a way why he did it.
He was blunt with his findings and pushed his luck i feel continuing to hack computors when he was caught a few times.
I really feel for the guy, i agree the whole ufo saga needs to be known to the public if it wasn't for people like Gary all us guys would be known as nutters!

I hope Dan Burich keeps his promise and helps this guy he certainly needs it.
Great picture by the way King Lear!!
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:01 AM   #11
rustanddust
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

I hope all goes well with Gary. thank you for keeping us updated on his situation.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:19 AM   #12
Theresa
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Lets pray for him, like seriously, that he be freed completely and that all those who seek to imprison him be simply removed from interference...PERIOD.

I declare, in the name of the Christ within us all, that Gary is now completely free of all interference and that all involved in his experience are totally changing their hearts and minds to allow him to walk, and rather than fight him, want to actually work with him. Those who work with him are those who want to see change-his energy influences and totally begins to shift the consciousness within these organizations. It is so, in the name of the source of all that is all~

~Peace Reigns on Earth~OM AH HUM~
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:24 AM   #13
linkes
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

love the graphic pic of Garry breaking out,

brilliant!

I think we just got to try and be as positive as possible for garry and hoepfully things will eventually sort themselves out.

I suppose easy things to say when your not the one being extradited

Peace and blessings
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:26 AM   #14
Zelphael
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

I feel bad for him. I had work the day the protest was on in the city, but it looks like it didn't do much good

He is being made an example of. Thanks to Bill and Kerry for their ongoing support in this issue.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:33 AM   #15
Antaletriangle
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

It appears to be a little obvious to me that the U.S. black ops. are feeling some heat here to react in this way over Gary.Regarding the U.K. legal system it stinks!Just hand one of our citizens over freely to the U.S. for this knowing what could/prob. will happen to him!!??It's disgusting;he was trying to open up free enegy to the world as well as wanting to know some answers as we all do on here!
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:04 AM   #16
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Free-UFO-Videos View Post

I support Disclosure and truth about outer space matters.
And I like Gary's personality.
And I would never want to hurt the guy.

But hacking into NASA computers is not the way.
I don't break the law to find out about extraterrestrials and UFOs.

He should have done what Project Camelot did.
Or he should have made dozens of UFO forums
and UFO websites like friends and I did.

We know what is happening on Earth and in Space.
And we didn't commit a crime to learn.

If I owned Area51, I would sentence him in the USA,
put him in jail, then move him to a special jail with a special jail cell
with comforts, a computer, broadband, and nice food, and be friends
with him. Not as a slave, but very good team work, care, respect,
and together do what Gary wanted ... hack (bad dudes) and study
outer space matters.

For the good of all Humanity!





_______________________________________________
I agree
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Old 09-09-2008, 04:06 AM   #17
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidders2 View Post
Would it be fair to say, Gary has attracted his current situation unto himself through his own thoughts and actions?

Just a thought.
I agree....since when is a common hacker some kind of ufo hero?

Are ufologists above the law?
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:06 AM   #18
mikey
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Gary has undoutbtedley brought this situation onto himself but he deserves nothing along the lines of treatment he is getting or being threatened with dont u think...

Are ufologists above the law...?...no is the simple answer to that....but neither should anyone else be then, which is quite clearly the case. It seems there is one rule for certain people and another for others.

What he did in terms of hacking into private government computers is wrong yes but the manner in bringing him to ''justice'' for it is wrong and a full public enquiry should be made into these accusations of a secret space cover up. Surely it is about time dont u think? I mean how long is it gona take or how many inquisitive people are gona be hung out to dry before we the people stand up and say NO..they may be on to something here!
Im not saying he should be freed bcos what he did and the manner of it was wrong but he there is no way he should be extradited for it....it wouldnt happen if it were the other way around would it...no, bcos the law is different on the other boot! Madness

We are the people..and we should know what is happening in my honest opinion.

Until the government come clean on these matters then i cant see people just shutting up and carrying on like nothing is happening...especially with the current influx of sightings we have had this yr in particular and its only going to increase (imo).

X files have been released from France recently as well as the UK and other nations and this guy is still being trialled like nothing is going on...a massive case of cognitive dissonance and ignorance by the public on one level.
One day all this stuff will come out one way or another and people will rem that guy who got done unfairly for trying to get the truth out.

Gary..if u ever read this...chin up son...the reprocussions of what u have done will be felt all over the world one day and for that we are ever thankful for ur efforts.

Peace

bananaman
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Old 09-09-2008, 08:30 AM   #19
Avid
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Thank you Bill and Kerry for trying to help this poor lad!
He was silly to hack, but young chaps and their bravado with technology sometimes forget the repercussions.
The knee-jerk reaction by the US is ludicrous, especially as they are regularly hacked anyway. Gary should not be allowed by our government to be made an example of. He should serve his penalty here in the UK.
Haven't the US got better things to do at the moment....?
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:26 AM   #20
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Yes you can say that what he did was silly, but also very brave, and something people need these days, to give them a glimpse of what is happening so maybe they will WAKE UP!

I feel really sorry for him the way he is being treated. The American government trying to make an example of him, but is that going to serve any purpose? The damage has been done, and they more or less brought it on themselves, and Gary just single handedly embarressed them due to their lack of security to some of the most secret files in the world!

And as usual the British Governemt are being lapdogs to the Americans and hardly offering any sort of protection. I have got a feelign he will be ok though, he has got a lot of support, and from soem very special people.

Bill and Kerry, please send all our support and best wishes from Avalon to Gary

CT
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:47 AM   #21
atama
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGhost View Post
Bill: didn't Gordon Novel offer help? I think it is time that Gary took up Gordon's offer!
good point.

Bill/Kerry, has Mr.Novel been in contact ?
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:44 AM   #22
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

The ends don't justify the means, it makes us no better than those we despise.

Gary was offered 6 mos in a US jail, the balance to be served in Britian.

Unfortunately, many have fallen for Gary's hype.

He should plead out, since he has admitted guilt
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by uniconr View Post
the odds are that the 'trial' will be closed court, you know, matter of national security, no media..
This would'nt surprise me in the slightist!
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:12 PM   #24
captainlockheed
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

The fact remains is the US has great sway over the internal affairs of the UK. In Gary McKinnons original trial here in the UK, US government representatives failed to offer any evidence that he had com mitted any crime and the judge rightly threw out the case. Now he finds himself being extradited with calls from publicity seeking politicians in the US calling for Gary to be fried.

Like it or not this seems to us little englanders as barbaric
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:16 PM   #25
murnut
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Default Re: Poor Gary Mckinnon

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainlockheed View Post
The fact remains is the US has great sway over the internal affairs of the UK. In Gary McKinnons original trial here in the UK, US government representatives failed to offer any evidence that he had com mitted any crime and the judge rightly threw out the case. Now he finds himself being extradited with calls from publicity seeking politicians in the US calling for Gary to be fried.

Like it or not this seems to us little englanders as barbaric


Gary has been charged with a crime.

He has admitted he hacked the computers

But the evidence has not yet been presented.

Gary was offered 6 mos in US prison and the balance to be serve in the UK.
=============================================

10. With those few introductory paragraphs it is necessary to turn in a little detail to the facts of the case.

The appellant’s alleged criminality

11. Using his home computer the appellant, through the internet, identified US Government network computers with an open Microsoft Windows connection and from those extracted the identities of certain administrative accounts and associated passwords. Having gained access to those accounts he installed unauthorised remote access and administrative software called “remotely anywhere” that enabled him to access and alter data upon the American computers at any time and without detection by virtue of the programme masquerading as a Windows operating system. Once “remotely anywhere” was installed, he then installed software facilitating both further compromises to the computers and also the concealment of his own activities. Using this software he was able to scan over 73,000 US Government computers for other computers and networks susceptible to similar compromise. He was thus able to lever himself from network to network and into a number of significant Government computers in different parts of the USA.

12. The 97 computers the appellant accessed were: 53 army computers, including computers based in Virginia and Washington that control the army’s military district of Washington network and are used in furtherance of national defence and security; 26 navy computers, including US Naval Weapons Station Earle, New Jersey, which was responsible for replenishing munitions and supplies for the deployed Atlantic fleet; 16 NASA computers; one Department of Defense computer; and one US Air Force computer.

13. Having gained access to these computers the appellant deleted data from them including critical operating system files from nine computers, the deletion of which shut down the entire US Army’s Military District of Washington network of over 2000 computers for 24 hours, significantly disrupting Governmental functions; 2,455 user accounts on a US Army computer that controlled access to an Army computer network, causing these computers to reboot and become inoperable; and logs from computers at US Naval Weapons Station Earle, one of which was used for monitoring the identity, location, physical condition, staffing and battle readiness of Navy ships, deletion of these files rendering the Base’s entire network of over 300 computers inoperable at a critical time immediately following 11 September 2001 and thereafter leaving the network vulnerable to other intruders.

14. The appellant also copied data and files onto his own computers, including operating system files containing account names and encrypted passwords from 22 computers comprising: 189 files from US Army computers, 35 files from US Navy computers (including some 950 passwords from server computers at Naval Weapons Station Earle); and six files from NASA computers.

15. The appellant’s conduct was alleged to be intentional and calculated to influence the US Government by intimidation and coercion. It damaged computers by impairing their integrity, availability and operation of programmes, systems, information and data, rendering them unreliable. The cost of repair was alleged to total over $700,000.

16. Analysis of the appellant’s home computer confirmed these allegations. During his interviews under caution, moreover, he admitted responsibility (although not that he had actually caused damage). He stated that his targets were high level US Army, Navy and Air Force computers and that his ultimate goal was to gain access to the US military classified information network. He admitted leaving a note on one army computer reading:

“US foreign policy is akin to government-sponsored terrorism these days . . . It was not a mistake that there was a huge security stand down on September 11 last year . . . I am SOLO. I will continue to disrupt at the highest levels . . .”

The plea-bargaining process (including discussion of repatriation)

17. In August 2002 the appellant instructed Ms Karen Todner, senior partner of Kaim Todner, to act as his solicitor. In November 2002 Ms Todner learned that an American prosecutor, Scott Stein, had applied for a formal indictment against the appellant and telephoned him to register her interest. There followed a number of communications during which Mr Stein indicated how much better a deal would be available to the appellant if he went voluntarily to the United States and pleaded guilty than if he contested extradition and denied the charges. Some of these communications were by telephone, some in writing, others at meetings with Mr Ed Gibson, the FBI legal attaché at the American Embassy in London. It is sufficient to set out the substance of what was said at the final such meeting on 14 April 2003, attended by Ms Todner and Mr Edmund Lawson QC for the appellant, and by Mr Stein, his superior Mr Hanly, and Mr Gibson as representatives of the US Government. I take this from a recent witness statement made by Mr Lawson dated 6 June 2008. (A broadly similar account taken from statements made by Ms Todner is set out in the Divisional Court’s judgment which also contains a detailed account of the earlier communications.)

18. Mr Stein confirmed that he was authorised to offer the appellant a deal in return for not contesting extradition and for agreeing to plead guilty to two of the counts laid against him of “fraud and related activity in connection with computers". On this basis it was likely that a sentence of 3-4 years (more precisely 37-46 months), probably at the shorter end of that bracket, would be passed and that after serving 6-12 months in the US, the appellant would be repatriated to complete his sentence in the UK. In this event his release date would be determined by reference to the UK’s remission rules namely, in the case of a sentence not exceeding four years, release at the discretion of the parole board after serving half the nominal sentence, release as of right at the two-thirds point. On that basis, he might serve a total of only some eighteen months to two years.

19. The predicted sentence of 3-4 years was based upon sentencing guidelines themselves based upon a points system. The prosecution would recommend to the court a particular points level which the court would be likely to accept. Similarly the prosecutor would recommend to the section of the US Department of Justice responsible for administering the Convention on the Transfer of Sentenced Persons that the appellant be transferred and this recommendation too was in practice likely to be accepted.

20. If, however, the appellant chose not to cooperate, and were then extradited and convicted, he might expect to receive a sentence of 8-10 years, possibly longer, and would not be repatriated to the UK for any part of it. He would accordingly serve the whole sentence in a US prison (possibly high security) with at best some 15% remission.

21. Mr Lawson clearly recalls the prospect of repatriation being stated to depend upon the appellant’s application for transfer being supported by the prosecution. If the support were withheld as it would be if extradition was contested, there was said to be no prospect of repatriation, a refusal by the Department of Justice being unreviewable in the US courts.

22. The proposed “deal” was conditional upon the appellant entering into a form of Plea Agreement, a lengthy document including the provision in para 4 that:

“the defendant is aware that the defendant’s sentence will be imposed in accordance with the Sentencing Guidelines and Policy Statements. The defendant is aware that the Court has jurisdiction and authority to impose any sentence within the statutory maximum set for the offense (s) to which the defendant pleads guilty. The defendant is aware that the Court has not yet determined a sentence. The defendant is also aware that any estimate of the probable sentencing range under the sentencing guidelines that the defendant may have received from the defendant’s counsel, the United States, or the probation office, is a prediction, not a promise, and is not binding on the United States, the probation office, or the Court. The United States makes no promise or representation concerning what sentence the defendant will receive, and the defendant cannot withdraw a guilty plea based upon the actual sentence.”

The Plea Agreement included a further term in para 12 that the US Attorney’s Offices respectively for the Eastern District of Virginia and the District of New Jersey “will not oppose the defendant’s application to transfer any sentence imposed by the Court made pursuant to the Council of Europe Convention".


23. Subsequent to the Divisional Court’s judgment but prior to Mr Lawson’s statement an affidavit was sworn by Robert Wiechering on behalf of the US Attorney’s Offices for both districts stating that they “will not oppose any prisoner transfer application that may be made by Gary McKinnon (if extradited and convicted) based, in whole or in part, on his refusal to waive or consent to extradition from the United Kingdom.”

24. Following the meeting of 14 April 2003 Ms Todner took advice from an American defense lawyer and, subsequently, the appellant declined the “deal".

http://www.publications.parliament.u...0/mckinn-1.htm


Now whose fault is this?


Gary refused the deal.

At what point is Gary responsible for his own actions?
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