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Old 02-15-2010, 08:25 PM   #1
peaceandlove
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Default Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Collapse of the euro is 'inevitable': Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

By SAM FLEMING and TIM SHIPMAN
13th February 2010

The European single currency is facing an 'inevitable break-up' a leading French bank claimed yesterday.

Strategists at Paris-based Société Générale said that any bailout of the stricken Greek economy would only provide 'sticking plasters' to cover the deep- seated flaws in the eurozone bloc.

The stark warning came as the euro slipped further on the currency markets and dire growth figures raised the prospect of a 'double-dip' recession in the embattled zone.

The bailout of Greece will only act as a 'sticking plaster' for the Euro crisis, the bank warned yesterday
Claims that the euro could be headed for total collapse are particularly striking when they come from one of the oldest and largest banks in France - a core founder-member.

Continues: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...#ixzz0fjrWPcu9



Greece defends 'Titanic' efforts to tackle financial crisis

Finance minister compares Greek economy to ocean liner – but insists government will steer clear of disaster

Julia Kollewe
guardian.co.uk,
Monday 15 February 2010

Greece's finance minister compared his debt-laden country to the Titanic today as he defended the Greek government's efforts to tackle the financial crisis.

George Papaconstantinou insisted that the Greek government's austerity measures were credible as pressure mounted on Greece today to take even tougher action to bring its fiscal problems under control.

"My argument is yes, we are doing enough, yes we will be able to do it," Papaconstantinou said, according to Reuters, ahead of a two-day meeting of eurozone finance ministers and European Union officials in Brussels. "We are trying to change the course of the Titanic, it cannot be done in a day ... We are beginning to show that step by step, we are following words with action. If additional fiscal measures are needed, we will take them."

Continues: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...urning-titanic




Pressure mounts on Greece to tackle debts

2/15/2010

BBC NEWS REPORT (2:04): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8517105.stm

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Old 02-16-2010, 08:03 PM   #2
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

This is also posted under Ron Paul's "New Era of Slavery" thread with the weekly Texas Straight Talks.

Did the Fed Bailout Greece? ~ Another Reason to Audit the Fed!

2/15/2010 Texas Straight Talk ~ Congressman Ron Paul

VIDEO (4:00): http://www.youtube.com/user/minnesot.../0/u0qdw_slpj8



Coming To America: The Greek Sovereign Debt Crisis

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 02/10/2010

Yesterday we presented our views on why Europe's decision to tip over the first of the bailout dominoes will be inherently a catastrophic one in the long term, and will ultimately transfer the peripheral liquidity risk into funding, and ultimately, solvency (and once again, liquidity) risk to the very core. Today, Niall Ferguson joins in, in this latest Op-Ed in the Financial Times. "It began in Athens. It is spreading to Lisbon and Madrid. But it would be a grave mistake to assume that the sovereign debt crisis that is unfolding will remain confined to the weaker eurozone economies. For this is more than just a Mediterranean problem with a farmyard acronym. It is a fiscal crisis of the western world. Its ramifications are far more profound than most investors currently appreciate." In other words, Marc Faber 1, CNBC talking heads, 0... as usual.

Ferguson lists the current dead ends presented before the EU:

Continues: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/com...gn-debt-crisis

SOURCE: http://solari.com/blog/ Catherine Austin Fitts' blog

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Old 02-16-2010, 08:15 PM   #3
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

The Financial Crisis in Greece
Catherine and News & Commentary, February 16, 2010 at 12:02 pm

SOURCE: http://solari.com/blog/?p=6200



Greece is the Word http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/02/greece-is-word.html
FOFA (12 Feb 2010)

What is John Paulson Doing in Greece? http://blog.littlesis.org/2010/02/15...ing-in-greece/
LittleSys Blog (15 Feb 10)

EU Seeks Greek Swaps Disclosure After Ministry Probe http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...FT2dMyIU&pos=1
Bloomberg.com (15 Feb 10)

Markets Give Greece Respite On Aid Hopes http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKSGE61801C20100210
Reuters (10 Feb 10)

Germany Backs Bailout For Greece As EU Seeks Expanded Power http://www.gata.org/node/8311
GATA (09 Feb 10)

Germany Formulates Greece Aid Plan http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ger...09?siteid=bnbh
MarketWatch (09 Feb 10)



Greek people resist paying for crisis

February 16, 2010: Engdahl: Goldman helped create Greek financial crisis and now EU and IMF want people to pay

VIDEO (9:12): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpUH...layer_embedded

YouTube Channel: theREALnewsnetwork http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRealNews

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Old 02-16-2010, 10:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Europe gives Greece one month to show first results of adjustment programme

15-02-2010

The 16 countries of the Eurozone have set Greece a one-month deadline to show the first results of its public finances plan. If the situation is not satisfactory "additional measures" will have to be taken.

The President of the Euro Group, Jean-Claude Juncker, speaking after the monthly meeting of the 16 Eurozone finance ministers, said the agreed sequence of events will be as follows:

Continues: http://www.eu2010.es/en/documentosyn...eurogrupo.html




Greek Bailout Details TBD In One Month; In The Meantime, "Markets Are Wrong To Attack Greece"

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 02/15/2010

Commentary: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/gre...-attack-greece




Now The Game's Afoot (Greece and Goldman)

Monday, February 15. 2010
Posted by Karl Denninger in Corruption

This is amusing.... Greece’s Goldman Sachs Swaps Spawn EU Dispute on Disclosure http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...2jvtHvWk&pos=1
Greece turned to Goldman Sachs Group Inc. in 2002, just after adopting the euro, to get $1 billion in funding through a swap on $10 billion of debt, Christoforos Sardelis, head of Greece’s Public Debt Management Agency at the time, said in an interview last week. Eurostat, the EU’s statistics office, was aware of the plan, he said. Risk Magazine also reported on the swap in July 2003.

“Eurostat was not until recently aware of this alleged currency swap transaction made by Greece,” spokesman Johan Wullt said by e-mail yesterday.
Bloomberg goes on to opine about whether the EU's statistics office knew about the swaps and their purpose at the time of origination.

This is not the correct question, in my opinion, to be asking.

The question to be asking is what was the essential purpose of transactions in question?

Continues: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...d-Goldman.html
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Old 02-18-2010, 05:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Hisssssssssss!!!!!!! (GreeceFire)

Thursday, February 18. 2010
Posted by Karl Denninger

Yes, that's the pressure vessel reaching critical you hear.... Greek MPs lash out at Germany over debt crisis http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61H1IZ20100218
ATHENS, Feb 18 (Reuters) - Greek opposition lawmakers said on Thursday that Germans should pay reparations for their World War Two occupation of Greece before criticising the country over its yawning fiscal deficits.
What does this have to do with what appear are alleged to be intentional cooking of the books to get into the EU in the first place.

You know, what we civilized folks would call "fraud"?
"How does Germany have the cheek to denounce us over our finances when it has still not paid compensation for Greece's war victims?" Margaritis Tzimas, of the main opposition New Democracy party, told parliament.
"You shot my brother sixty years ago and so damnit, I'm going to commit fraud with impunity because you never paid me for my brother's death!"

Uh huh.

Didn't we try something like this before? I seem to remember a couple of instances over in Europe that had a rather significant part of their root in economic mismanagement and outright scams by sovereigns, no? Weimar-Cough-Weimar-Cough for one, but not the only one. If you think the only reason we had WWI was the assassination of Archuduke Ferdinand you were "educated" in a government school.

Continues: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...reeceFire.html
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Old 02-19-2010, 09:13 AM   #6
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Hi peaceandlove,

Of course it's clear that the Greek government is now clutching at straws to keep its' head above water, but we can plainly see that Greece has as much right to cash payments from the Germans as do the Jewish people who claimed compensation from Germany and from the Swiss banks some 50 years after the act (WWII).

As the world accepted the Jewish complaint, so must it accept the Greek demand, or are there different rules for different people? Also, could this lead to an internal war in Europe?

Best regards,

Steve



Quote:
Originally Posted by peaceandlove View Post
Hisssssssssss!!!!!!! (GreeceFire)

Thursday, February 18. 2010
Posted by Karl Denninger

Yes, that's the pressure vessel reaching critical you hear.... Greek MPs lash out at Germany over debt crisis http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE61H1IZ20100218
ATHENS, Feb 18 (Reuters) - Greek opposition lawmakers said on Thursday that Germans should pay reparations for their World War Two occupation of Greece before criticising the country over its yawning fiscal deficits.
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Old 02-19-2010, 03:29 PM   #7
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve_A View Post
Hi peaceandlove,

Of course it's clear that the Greek government is now clutching at straws to keep its' head above water, but we can plainly see that Greece has as much right to cash payments from the Germans as do the Jewish people who claimed compensation from Germany and from the Swiss banks some 50 years after the act (WWII).

As the world accepted the Jewish complaint, so must it accept the Greek demand, or are there different rules for different people? Also, could this lead to an internal war in Europe?

Best regards,

Steve
Blessings Steve A,

This morning when I checked campaiagnforliberty.com I found this article by Jacob Hornberger which I felt was worthy to share. His blog: http://www.fff.org/blog/index.asp

Socialist Bankruptcy in Greece

By: Jacob Hornbergeris founder and president of The Future of Freedom Foundation: http://www.fff.org/

Published 02/19/10

EXCERPT:

Quote:
For a while their welfare system seems to work. The socialists pluck the golden goose but the goose is still able and willing to lay eggs. But inevitably, out of their insatiable thirst for more resources, the socialists over-pluck, which causes the goose to lay less eggs. Ultimately, the goose starts getting thinner and weaker, until it finally dies.

And that's precisely what has happened in the beloved socialist paradise of Greece. They taxed and taxed and spent and spent on their socialist schemes. In fact, not satisfied with the amount of money the taxes were bringing in, the socialists went on a borrowing spree, one similar to that which U.S. officials have embarked upon to pay for their socialist and imperialist schemes.

Of course, no one cared about all that rising debt. ֻNo need to worry. We owe it to ourselvesֻ the Greek Keynesian professors undoubtedly instructed their students. Financial data was even falsified in the hopes that people would never discover what was going on.

But finally, the ever-growing spending, debt, and taxes got so inordinately high that the private sector was no longer able to bear the burden of it all. The beloved Greek welfare state cracked. Bankrupt. Busted. Another socialist success story, just like the one in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

How are they resolving the welfare-state crisis in Greece? By taxing the private sector in other EU welfare-state countries in order to provide a government-to-government welfare dole to the Greek government.
By taxing the private sector in other EU welfare-state countries in order to provide a government-to-government welfare dole to the Greek government. (Now that could cause a war. No sovereignty.)

Quote:
But it's just a matter of time before the same crisis strikes other European welfare states. Who will bail them out? Don't count on the U.S. government. It's following the same road as Greece.
Continues: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/article.php?view=624



SEE THIS VIDEO SERIES I JUST POSTED AT PROJECT CAMELOT

Liberty and Economics ~ Ludwig Von Mises
http://projectavalon.net/forum/newth...newthread&f=54

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Old 03-03-2010, 03:36 PM   #8
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Greece passes new deficit cuts to avert 'catastrophe'

The Greek government has passed another multi-billion euro package of cuts as it seeks to convince markets and fellow members of the euro that it's serious about tackling the deficit.

Published: 03 Mar 2010

George Papandreou, the Greek prime minister, said on Wednesday that the measures, which include higher taxes on alcohol and cigarettes, were needed to avoid a fiscal 'catastrophe.'

Greece has been at the heart of a financial storm so far this year that has left European Monetary Union facing the severest crisis in its short history. Scepticism about whether German and French voters would stomach bailing Greece out of its debt crisis has driven Greece's cost of borrowing to its highest since it joined the eurozone.

Continues: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...tastrophe.html
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Old 03-05-2010, 01:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Greece Gets Told To Bite It

Thursday, March 4. 2010
Posted by Karl Denninger

Greece is now whining that their "austerity" should bring gifts - from Germany: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=az5SbvZ.sR9A
“We have fulfilled to the utmost all that we must from our side; now it’s Europe’s turn,” Papandreou told his ministers, according to an e-mailed transcript. “It is a historic moment for the European Union.”
No it's not.

Honest accounting is its own reward. So is fiscal prudence.

You're owed nothing Greece.

More importantly, there's no money. Not just there - here too. Witness the layoff/hirebacks in California and New Jersey's new governor - the latter who told the truth for the first time by a state politician in 30 years.

You wouldn't know it from the pumper brigade on Tout TV, of course. They claim it's all getting better.

Really?

Borrowing and spending 9% of GDP by the government to falsely inflate final demand is "getting better"?

No, it's hiding the truth, and while it can continue for a while, just as you can do the same thing if you lose your job, continuing to run up your plastic until your credit card company figures out that you lose your job and will never pay them back, so can governments.

Unfortunately instead of solving the problems in our economy and financial system - which would have resulted in the bankruptcy of some very powerful people and firms - we decided to lie.

Just like Greece, just like Italy, just like the rest of the world.

Politicians are very good liars. Indeed, it's pretty much all they do.

But irrespective of how much you want to lie, or how much you do lie, at the end of the day when there is no money left what your "balance sheet" says you have is immaterial.

Only cash pays the light bill my friends, and the cash is insufficient to cover the demands of those who want to suck on that government tit.

This is math - not politics.

SOURCE: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...o-Bite-It.html
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:18 AM   #10
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Germany rules out immediate aid for Greece

Fri Mar 5, 2010

By Michele Sinner and Marcin Grajewski

LUXEMBOURG, March 5 (Reuters) - Germany and the chairman of the group of countries using the euro ruled out immediate financial aid for Greece before talks on Friday with Prime Minister George Papandreou.

Excerpt:

Quote:
German Economy Minister Rainer Bruederle said each EU member state was responsible for its own affairs and Athens had to implement its austerity plan effectively. "The German government does not intend to give a cent," he said.

The crisis threatens the credibility of the euro and, despite Eurogroup reluctance to provide financial assistance, it wants to avoid Greece turning to the International Monetary Fund for help because doing so could be seen as weakness.

BOND SALE BOOST
Continues: http://www.campaignforliberty.com/wire.php?view=10820
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:25 AM   #11
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Also see above recent post...


Oh, The Off-Balance Sheet Lies Are International?

Sunday, March 7. 2010
Posted by Karl Denninger

Naw, they'd NEVER do that, would they? Greece's hidden debt soaring http://www.nypost.com/p/news/busines...1sDbRxgP51ANKJ
International finance-industry estimates have Dubai's sovereign debt load, thanks to the off-balance-sheet debt, exploding to nearly four times its originally reported $80 billion, as other government-backed projects have gone bad after Dubai World's default in late November.

....

This is how the Greek debt has grown 12 times over the initial numbers it had on the books with the European Union. Iceland and Dubai are the test studies for how the Europeans may deal with the idea of socializing private debt through public funding.

....

"I am seeing many sovereign defaults for the PIIGS as well as in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet satellite countries running into 2011," Bob Chapman added.
Isn't it great to do things off-balance sheet? Why you can lie, cheat, and steal from investors, who believe you are far more credit-worthy than you really are.

Who else has done this?

There aren't any big American banks with a trillion or so (each) off balance sheet in SPVs, are there? Oh wait - there are!

America doesn't have somewhere around $80 trillion off balance sheet in Social Security and Medicare "promises", does it - nearly six times GDP? Oh wait - it does!

Why is this sort of thing a problem again?

SOURCE: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...rnational.html
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Old 03-09-2010, 02:02 AM   #12
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

3/8/10 Jim Rogers on Bloomberg: Greece Bankruptcy Would Be Good for Euro!

Jim Rogers, chairman of Rogers Holdings, talks with Bloomberg's Betty Liu, Jon Erlichman and Adam Johnson about Greece's fiscal woes. Rogers, speaking from Vienna, also discusses the outlook for the U.S. stock market, China's yuan and investment strategy.

VIDEO (9:30): http://www.youtube.com/user/minnesot.../0/1ymuVOpbk9I
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:16 AM   #13
TRANCOSO
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Keep it coming, P&L!
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Old 03-09-2010, 05:07 PM   #14
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Blessings TRANCOSO,

Somewhere between propaganda and perceived reality there might be an iota of truth.

This article caught my eye at kitco.com, it's like comedy central these days!


Gold futures drop as Greek debt worries ease

March 9, 2010 - 7:59AM

Gold prices in New York fell the most in a month on speculation that Greece's fiscal crisis will be resolved (What the heck does that mean?), reducing demand for the metal as a haven.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy said that euro-region nations are ready to help Greece. The cost to protect against corporate-bond defaults fell to the lowest rate in seven weeks on mounting optimism that Greece will rein in its budget gaps.

"If the Greek situation calms down, people may not be as interested in owning hard assets," said Matt Zeman, a metals trader at LaSalle Futures Group in Chicago. "Gold is losing its momentum."

Continues (if you can handle the cr4p): http://www.theage.com.au/business/ma...0309-pt64.html



PaL

Last edited by peaceandlove; 03-09-2010 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:11 PM   #15
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

GreeceFire Out? I Don't Think So...

Wednesday, March 10. 2010
Posted by Karl Denninger in International

The idiocy coming from the EU reeks of desperation: Greek Crisis Is Over, Rest of Region Safe, Prodi Says http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...MFrhkAeg&pos=4

Quote:
“For Greece, the problem is completely over,” said Prodi, who was also Italian prime minister, in an interview in Shanghai today. “I don’t see any other case now in Europe. I don’t think there is any reason to think the euro system will collapse or will suffer greatly because of Greece.”


Continuing...

Quote:
Prodi, 70, who headed the European Commission from 1999 to 2004, will teach at the China Europe International Business School in Shanghai. He said budget deficits are “a general problem for almost all the wealthy countries.”
No, really? You mean having the government be responsible for half of GDP is a problem, when everything that they actually obtain has to come, in the end, by taxing the citizens inside their borders?

Quote:
The euro has weakened 5.8 percent against the dollar this year as concern Greece will struggle to finance its deficit eroded confidence in the European currency.

“Europe is more than happy,” said Prodi. “For the benefit of the European economy, the decrease of the value has been absolutely positive.”
Bah.

As in the United States, European nations more-or-less index their entitlement programs to inflation. And like the United States, they hold most of the costs of these programs off their balance sheet, where that indexing is not visible (directly) to markets, never mind that those are promises for tomorrow, not today.

Continues: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...ink-So....html
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

What Happens If Greece Really Defaults?

Matthew Bandyk, On Thursday March 11, 2010

Earlier this week, Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou traveled to the United States to promote a message: We're in this together. The debt crisis that has threatened the Greek economy and the stability of the European Union's monetary policies "very much involves America's interests," Papandreou stated in a speech at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

The prime minister--who was born in St. Paul, Minn.--even connected the current crisis to the Great Depression as well as the Great Recession. "If the European crisis metastasizes, it could create a new global financial crisis with implications as grave as the U.S.-originated crisis two years ago," he said.

Continues: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/What-H...43040.html?x=0
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Old 03-17-2010, 08:14 PM   #17
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

Wait A Second - I Thought Greece Was Done?

Wednesday, March 17. 2010
Posted by Karl Denninger in International

Weren't we told Greece was "bailed out", "backstopped", or whatever you care to use? That's all I've heard all week on ToutTV.

So what's this about? Greece May Turn to IMF If EU Fails to Deliver http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory?id=10124540

Quote:
Greece could seek IMF funding to help overcome its debt crisis if its EU partners do not provide "clear support" next week, a government spokesman said Wednesday.

George Petalotis said the March 25-26 European Union summit on how to deal with a potential bailout for Greece will be crucial, as the country struggles to reduce a bloated budget deficit and public debt.

"I believe the summit is when it will become evident whether the European partners want to support a country ... or whether we have to resort to some other solution," Petalotis said.
Doesn't sound "done" to me!

Oh wait - what's this? Feldstein Sees Greek Euro-Exit Pressure as Plan Fails http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a4Wx3yJPeNXY

Quote:
“The idea that Greece can go from a 12 percent deficit now to a 3 percent deficit two years from now seems fantasy,” Feldstein, an adviser to U.S. presidents since Ronald Reagan, said in a March 13 interview in Geneva. “The alternatives are to default in some way or to leave, or both.”
Of course it's a fantasy. So tell me this - why are the markets going up in the belief that the Greece problem is in fact fixed, when:

Continues: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...-Was-Done.html
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:22 AM   #18
peaceandlove
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Default Re: Bailing out the Greek economy futile, says FRENCH banking chief

No Greece Solution: Told You So

Thursday, March 25. 2010
Posted by Karl Denninger in International

Look at this nonsense (and BS): Stocks Gain on Earnings, Greece Aid; Treasuries Drop on Auction http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...UXqK4HuM&pos=1

Quote:
French President Nicolas Sarkozy bowed to German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s demand for an International Monetary Fund role in a potential rescue package for Greece. Qualcomm’s forecast helped send S&P 500 technology shares up 1.6 percent. Financial shares rallied 2.3 percent as Bernanke eased concern the U.S. central bank would consider lifting rates and the Treasury was said to plan an orderly sale of its stake in Citigroup Inc.
This is real positive-sounding, right?

Then how come this just came out?

Quote:
March 25 (Bloomberg) -- European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said the Eurogroup needs to take responsibility for its members in an interview broadcast on France’s Public Senat channel today.

The Greek government issued “false figures” which is “unacceptable,” Trichet said in the interview. Possible International Monetary Fund aid for Greece is “very, very bad,” he said.
Oh, so lying is finally recognized as bad?

Excuse me, Mr. Trichet.

Continues: http://market-ticker.denninger.net/a...ld-You-So.html
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