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View Poll Results: Are you leaving after the Forum becomes a Paid Subscription?
I am leaving if Avalon is a Paid Subscription. 266 75.78%
I am not leaving. 85 24.22%
Voters: 351. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-04-2008, 06:48 PM   #126
herbivore
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

p.s. is this the change you wish to see?
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:01 PM   #127
pineal-pilot-in merkabah
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

the fee would be to pay for the hosting of the servers and nothing more. as i understand it. bill and kerry get funded off backers and richer contributors do they not??? ill pay a small fee, as i understand it the economy will collapse so how do we pay for it anyway..

the scenario will be paypal ect will collapse, by the time that new methods are forced upon us internt 2 will be on track and these sites will be gone .. anyone agree with this summation?
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:27 PM   #128
herbivore
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

i have some experience with hosting your own website and i can say that the server fee would be fractions of a cent if evenly distributed among all the avalon forum members. general camelot/avalon contributions could undoubtedly cover this cost.

you may be right, pineal pilot; the internet 2 is just going to be another idiot box, like the t.v. i don't plan on participating
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:53 PM   #129
zorgon
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer View Post
Allthough I own and run a forum that could easily overtake the functions of Avalon where nobody has to pay (because of the low servercosts: about $100.- a year and of which I will not place a link here) I will pay for the servercosts of Avalon (even cheaper than my own forum) if the owners think they can't afford it.
I hear a lot of talk about 'server costs' and 'bandwidth costs' While this was true years ago... I suggest people do a little research. My hosting company that I will link to is charging me 166.00 for TWO years... This includes FIVE(5) domain names hosted on the SAME account ( a one time fee of 12.00 if you want a pointer, no fee if its a separate site)

For this I have 5 TERABYTES of storage, 5 TERABYTES of transfer per month. Upgrades of 1 TERABYTE are one time fee of 49.00...

So far my usage needle has not even flickered... http://globat.com

So the issue is not server space... Now if they need travel expenses that is a different matter...

ADS

Who really cares? Yahoo, Myspace, Google all have them. ATS has one at the top and one at the side... Though ATS has it in their terms of use NOT to use ad blocker... well who will stop you? (if you have no honor )

Do you know how much money ad revenue is worth? Check out http://www.dnscoop.com/

This site calculates the value of placing an ad on a site... I have already turned down two offers that came to me to put ads on my site...

ATS lists at $251,600.00


Myspace lists at $1,124,200,000.00
Yahoo lists at $1,280,000,000.00
Google lists at $1,776,000,000.00

Here is the single ad link value for ATS... the Big sites cannot even calculate it..

The estimated value of a single link on abovetopsecret.com is: $117 /month
If you were to sell 8 links on abovetopsecret.com, you could generate $936/month in revenue for your website.

Welcome to the REAL world

Currently Camelot.org is at $18,530.00 Last time I checked and posted this a few weeks ago it was $4,234.00

The estimated value of a single link on projectcamelot.org is: $29 /month
If you were to sell 8 links on projectcamelot.org, you could generate $232/month in revenue for your website.


I hear people at ATS always complain about those sharing information and writing a book to "make money" as if that was evil... yet those same people don't seem to have an issue with ATS being worth hundreds of millions...

ATS also runs a store...


ATS GEAR
http://www.cafepress.com/abovetopsecret

ONE coffee mug with Logo... $12.99
http://www.cafepress.com/abovetopsecret.27020138

Long Sleeve Dark Conspiracy T-Shirt... $24.99http://www.cafepress.com/abovetopsecret.88398235


Total ATS member accounts: 149,144

If every member not counting guests buys just ONE mug...

12.99 times 149,144 equals $1,937,380.56

Avalon currently has 4940 members

12.99 times 4940 equals $64,170.60


I would gladly by a coffee mug... at least I would have some value for my support...

HOWEVER If Avalon is making that kind of money on 'selling' my work (posts) I might want to consider getting a 'piece of the action'


This is one of the MAIN POINTS people miss when a site goes subscription...

The material that makes a forum interesting enough to be paid for... is provided FOR FREE by the members... if there was no member content... provide by people that wish to share the truth... there would be NO REASON to be here let alone pay for it...

I spend long hard hours researching and posting in various forums...

Those of you that know my work can see that...

I offer this time FOR FREE...

If someone was making millions of dollars (like ATS) on work I provide free of charge, as well as MY BANDWIDTH and server space where I host the images etc for my posts I would have to seriously reconsider my participation.

The only reason I still post at ATS knowing the money they make... is because the MEMBERS still get my info free... and I have many a LOT of contacts through my work there... people like John Lear, Russ Hamerly from Boeing, and Edgar Mitchell... to name a few...

This is payback for my work that I can live with

Two contributors to Pegasus opted out of sharing articles with us when the went strictly subscription... One was Ellen Llyod of UFO Area... http://www.ufoarea.com/

Subscription at Avalon?

I am outta here...


Quote:
Furthermore I contribute to this forum as much as I can, bringing in my knowledge and good vibrations and I am not going to pay for being allowed to share my abundance.
A VERY good point to add to my statement above

You have to pay to contribute free content... uh huh sounds like a great idea...

Uh yeah right


Quote:
The one who came up with this idea should be ashamed.
No way Jose!
We have our own Ark to build in Europe as well !!




PS If ya go for the store idea I expect a free mug and an autographed T-Shirt for showing you the numbers

Last edited by zorgon; 11-04-2008 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 11-04-2008, 07:53 PM   #130
deepblu777
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

David, Darling, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!

You warmed my heart.

There is a lot of serious stuff at stake here, granted. Important to keep our wits, sense of humor and compassion all about us, yes?

Back to topic: I hope they don't start charging though, finding new perspectives helps me see truth. I also hope this is not a financial hardship for Kerry and Bill, we can all relate!

Here's a 'HA-HA' for you....always makes me giggle a little.

Jim Varney, 'Ernest Scared Stupid'...

'...there ain't no trees in Batswanna, uh-uh. I know. I am a Batswannian lumber-jack and I ain't never had a job!'

Peace, ya'll!

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Old 11-04-2008, 08:24 PM   #131
herbivore
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

" zorgon
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Old 11-04-2008, 08:49 PM   #132
Baggywrinkle
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by herbivore View Post
IT IS an insult when someone suggests that if my income doesn't reach their standards I'm not worthy to share ideas with them.
So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines. Demonstrate that you
are serious and not just a leech.

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:17 PM   #133
herbivore
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines. Demonstrate that you
are serious and not just a leech.

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?
i admit a little cash in pocket wouldn't be something i'd oppose, in the circumstance that i actually did some work for the exchange. but, it depends on the 'database' of information you're referring to. if it's a avalon database or something of the sort, i wouldn't accept a monetary exchange for the truths i find. we're trying to step away from the monetary system. and besides, that's just a little step closer from the independent to bias line, in my opinion (which is the last thing we need); the truth mustn't be bias.

so what are you doing to stop 'serious end sober enough' 'opportunists' and 'snipers' (which are equally 'serious end sober enough' as the genuine posters,) from coughing up the few bucks to post? i think they would be as serious as we are, so a fee doesn't stop them. i'd think that anyone spending their time on this forum is serious about it, time is an important resource in this body. a fee just stops the people that don't have the monetary resources to pay. and in the process you omit a large group of genuine posters from being able to share their truths.

although being able to read the posts but not post yourself isn't as bad as not seeing the forum at all, which is what i had in mind when this was brought up. i hope this isn't taken too heavily, the internet has a way of doing that. more often i think we all need to try and 'be the change we want to see' in every little aspect of life.
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Old 11-04-2008, 09:24 PM   #134
zorgon
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?


I have known a few in our guild that seem to have no problem with that...

That and show up to play after the setup work has been done, then suddenly have a urgent family matter at teardown.

We call em 'good time Charlies'
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Old 11-04-2008, 11:51 PM   #135
Peer
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post

Would you show up at a community pot luck with your appetite and a smile?
No, I would bring my brother.....
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:05 AM   #136
Mercuriel
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Thumbs up Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

I will remain - Regardless...

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Old 11-05-2008, 12:37 AM   #137
whitecrow
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
So how would you feel about contributing quality content in leu of $$ which
could be added to the database?

My interest in a pay site is to eliminate the opportunists and snipers. Casual readers could read but not post. The price of admission for posting would be
to demonstrate that you were serious end sober enough to put together
an orginal article according to the charter guidlines.
And for those who are not talented writers?
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Old 11-05-2008, 05:03 AM   #138
Baggywrinkle
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And for those who are not talented writers?
A photo essay perhaps? The eloquence is not the issue,
the effort and information is.

If you can grunt and point and still teach how to build a
fire, this is a good thing. It is valuable without money
exchanging hands.

Avalon is about building community. We all have skills
we can share at this level which will then trickle down
to end users all over the world. That is what the database is all about. That is why I signed on as a researcher. Hopefully it is more than a cool green title.


The database would ideally be a searchable indexed collection of this knowledge in coherent easy to read
articles. A group effort to benefit us all and help see us
through hard times. The Fer Fal essays are a good example. His information is priceless because his information is first hand fact, not theory.

For example, Fer Fal teaches that in a collapsed crime ridden society you are most vulnerable to attack when
entering or exiting your home. Who woulda thunk it?
Nice tidbit to know if zombie time comes, ehh?
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Old 11-05-2008, 05:22 AM   #139
herbivore
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

you claim this knowledge in this potential database would be in the class of 'priceless', yet a fee would be required to share the priceless information?
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Old 11-05-2008, 06:10 AM   #140
Baggywrinkle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herbivore View Post
you claim this knowledge in this potential database would be in the class of 'priceless', yet a fee would be required to share the priceless information?
Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?

In a community garden there are shares. Shares may be
earned with labor or with cash. Is it my responsibility to
make sure that you eat when there is no food to be had
and you have done nothing to prepare? To an extent, yes. That is called charity. Are you looking for handouts? I can help. It is free for the taking if you know it exists and you know where to find it. It is priceless, and it will help feed your family in hard times.

http://www.biorationalinstitute.com/...a_strategy.pdf

There, now you can't say I never gave you anything.
Of course, it would be a good idea to support the author by buying a hard copy.

Is it my responsibility to show you how to grow the food
if you are unwilling to lift a finger on my behalf? In community I've got your back, we work together to our mutual benefit. In a welfare society you'd better work harder because they are all depending on you. The mods here are all volunteers. What have you brought them that will help feed their families if the system really does
crash?

In your own community/ground team group, how much
deadwood will you carry before you rebel and say enough?

The right information when I need it in a concise format
without wading through pages of unrelated and often trivial debate. That is priceless. I would pay money for it, big money. Indeed, I have in the past.

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 11-05-2008 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 11-05-2008, 06:18 AM   #141
KathyT
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Perhaps this should be moved over to servers who do provide free services to group forums. Yahoo groups is one and Google groups is another.

If what is important is getting the word out... there would be a lot of openness in those groups!
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:10 AM   #142
gordon
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Most-All members have aggreed that 'paying' for a Subscription is a bad Idea. MAYBE...Bill-Kerry and the Mods can have ads from companies placed on each click (going to each page-section of Avalon. In that way it would solve alot of problems with paying the bills.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:15 AM   #143
whitecrow
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
Why should I research for you if you are unwilling to give anything in return?
If that's your position, then I think you aren't fit to be a researcher for a forum that concerns itself with shifting to new paradigms and a new society. You're just carrying your old baggage right along with you.

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:20 AM   #144
Baggywrinkle
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Originally Posted by whitecrow View Post

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.
Where's the beef?

You need an invitation?

Start right here by wading through the pages of stuff in this forum. Condense it down into a concise indexed easy to read format. Contact Colin and tell him you want to be a researcher and you want
access to the researchers area. Tell him I said to double what I'm making out of the deal. You can
even choose your research topics.

Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 11-05-2008 at 07:32 AM.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:23 AM   #145
THE PEACEFUL WARRIOR
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Talking Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
Also, let us know if you plan on staying if the forum becomes a paid subscription forum.
This poll will help us understand how a paid subscription service
will affect the Avalon forum.

Thanks,
Kevin - Project Avalon Spiritual Mediator
Hi Kevin,
I haven't read the replies on this thread so I dunno what others are saying, my points are:

This is tough one because even though I have enjoyed being a part of the Forum and totally support and are deeply grateful to Bill and Kerry for what they do, I'm not sure I will stay if there is subscription.

Without wishing to get all political my gut feeling is simply that a community like this should be an 'ACCESS ALL AREAS' situation for everyone, no exclusions and for that reason alone it should BE FREE, no charge, no fee.

My reason is that we are living in and through exceptional times and the free-flow and unobstructed passage of ideas and information is both vital and essential.

One for all and all for one...I say!

PEACE OUT
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:24 AM   #146
gordon
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
You need an invitation?
I do not mean to 'stir the Avalon pot'...but a while ago, Carol did request to all if the members would like to be a Mod. Whitecrow if you do know or not, the Mods on Avalon-Camelot use their free time to be on here. They do it because they want to, they do not get paid to be here, they pay with their free time to deal with the members.
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:41 AM   #147
dutchie
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
It might be acceptable to donate time or knowledge instead of $$

We are real people with real skills.

A work shares system could be explored. Bartering knowledge for labor or goods. Yes, goods. You teach me
basic electricity, I ship you a bushel of sweet corn.
Ebay style.

Quid pro quo, something for something.

Avalon is about international community. Virtual communities can transcend the barrier into reality.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. The money system
is dying. What will you do to adapt?

How big can you dream?
Well I guess that would be a great concept for the ark.Isn't that what all of this is about;helping one and all.
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:56 AM   #148
dutchie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peer View Post
No, I would bring my brother.....
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:00 AM   #149
dutchie
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitecrow View Post
If that's your position, then I think you aren't fit to be a researcher for a forum that concerns itself with shifting to new paradigms and a new society. You're just carrying your old baggage right along with you.

No one has asked me to research, moderate, mediate or anything else here...but if they did, I'd do it for free.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:11 AM   #150
dutchie
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Default Re: Will you leave if the forum is a Paid Subscription?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pineal-pilot-in merkabah View Post
the fee would be to pay for the hosting of the servers and nothing more. as i understand it. bill and kerry get funded off backers and richer contributors do they not??? ill pay a small fee, as i understand it the economy will collapse so how do we pay for it anyway..

the scenario will be paypal ect will collapse, by the time that new methods are forced upon us internt 2 will be on track and these sites will be gone .. anyone agree with this summation?
You said it all in a nut shell;Bill & Kerry get their funding from wealthy contributors.
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