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Old 10-25-2009, 03:38 AM   #1
J_rod7
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Arrow Over-Population, new site for action

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Best Greetings to All, Peace Be With You

Please accept notice that a new website has been established for the major problem facing Humanity -- the problem of Global Over-Population.

This is the link to the Homepage: ...>
http://www.thecircleforhumanity.net/

I have been working together with a group of others with the common interest to present this problem of overpopulation and proposed solutions.

Our Planet Earth is running out of time to address this problem in a logical and humanitarian way. Already the Climate change is reaching the tipping point. Refugees are pouring out of areas devastated by droughts and crop failures. The Governments have NOT been telling the full truth as to the scope of the impending Global disasters. The Governments have also purposefully underestimated the current total global population -- they say "we are about 6.5-Billion," where the true number is 7.7-Billion Human Beings now on Earth. Of these, nearly One-Billion are now at starvation and bare subsistence levels.

The Mission Statement of The Circle For Humanity is expressed here ..>

[ The ultimate goal of the Circle for Humanity is 'To bring awareness and understanding of the problems and results of the massive Over-Population, with proposed solutions. An 'implemented and regulated worldwide democratic birth control'

[ However the group is not a political group or have any power on Earth to change policy in respective countries. Policies and laws for such changes are the discretion of each respective country. The Over-Population is a Global problem which can only be addressed at local levels for now. We are not a group which conspires to over throw any country. We do not wish to become a political party or make policy ourselves. Within the stated goal above we conduct a peaceful, logical and objective approach to bring awareness to all nations and peoples on Earth of the true dangers of the excessive Over-population. Demonstrating that Over-population is the root cause of all ills on Earth and that only by an 'implemented and regulated worldwide democratic birth control' can Earth, life, plants, man and animals be saved from suffering, disease, destruction, extinction and so on. ]

Please drop by, get some good information, and help us spread the word.

Truth Must Come Before Peace

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Old 10-25-2009, 05:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Over-Population, new site for action

Here is my view:

1). The world is not over populated at all. It can support hundreds of billions if managed correctly.

2). Global warning is a hoax. I do not believe it. However, I do believe that our environment is being destroyed -- and unnecessarily so.
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:50 AM   #3
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Already the Climate change is reaching the tipping point.
I agree that changes need to happen with the way the planet is being treated.
And there are many people who are not having their needs met. However, I think this is due to misallocation of goods and resources rather than lack.

All the planets in our solar system are heating up-not just earth. We are not the cause of climate change. Galactic energy is.
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Old 10-25-2009, 10:33 AM   #4
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Default Re: Over-Population, new site for action

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Originally Posted by m1* View Post
Here is my view:

1). The world is not over populated at all. It can support hundreds of billions if managed correctly.

2). Global warning is a hoax. I do not believe it. However, I do believe that our environment is being destroyed -- and unnecessarily so.
I agree with you.

We're not over-populated. Here is a post on the topic: http://projectavalon.net/forum/showt...447#post149447

Global warming/climate change is the "noble lie" the elite use to manipulate the public into going along with their New World Order agenda.
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Old 10-25-2009, 12:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Over-Population, new site for action

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Originally Posted by J_rod7 View Post
Best Greetings to All, Peace Be With You

Please accept notice that a new website has been established for the major problem facing Humanity -- the problem of Global Over-Population.

This is the link to the Homepage: ...>
http://www.thecircleforhumanity.net/

I have been working together with a group of others with the common interest to present this problem of overpopulation and proposed solutions.

Our Planet Earth is running out of time to address this problem in a logical and humanitarian way. Already the Climate change is reaching the tipping point. Refugees are pouring out of areas devastated by droughts and crop failures. The Governments have NOT been telling the full truth as to the scope of the impending Global disasters. The Governments have also purposefully underestimated the current total global population -- they say "we are about 6.5-Billion," where the true number is 7.7-Billion Human Beings now on Earth. Of these, nearly One-Billion are now at starvation and bare subsistence levels.

The Mission Statement of The Circle For Humanity is expressed here ..>

[ The ultimate goal of the Circle for Humanity is 'To bring awareness and understanding of the problems and results of the massive Over-Population, with proposed solutions. An 'implemented and regulated worldwide democratic birth control'

[ However the group is not a political group or have any power on Earth to change policy in respective countries. Policies and laws for such changes are the discretion of each respective country. The Over-Population is a Global problem which can only be addressed at local levels for now. We are not a group which conspires to over throw any country. We do not wish to become a political party or make policy ourselves. Within the stated goal above we conduct a peaceful, logical and objective approach to bring awareness to all nations and peoples on Earth of the true dangers of the excessive Over-population. Demonstrating that Over-population is the root cause of all ills on Earth and that only by an 'implemented and regulated worldwide democratic birth control' can Earth, life, plants, man and animals be saved from suffering, disease, destruction, extinction and so on. ]

Please drop by, get some good information, and help us spread the word.

Truth Must Come Before Peace
Hello J_Rod7. I am glad you brought this subject on the table. Your intention might be for the better of humanity and planet Earth. But I must say, there is no such problem as overpopulation.

The real problem is an enormous unbalanced socio-economic problem of sharing the resources. The source of the problem is the actual world system in power. The banking and monetary system control all aspect of economy and finance. The Military and pharmaceutical industries perpetrate poverty and starvation. The geopolitical system along with all international agencies conduct the agenda of the Elite in power to maintain Humanity in a perpetual state of weakness, ignorance and dependencies. And in this very agenda there is a line that says the Earth was conceived to sustain 500 000 000 people, no more.

This is their agenda. The truth is that the Earth can maintain 10 times more people on itself if their was a real system of sharing adequately the resource without the addiction of the consumption system. If all humans were living like the northern citizen, we would need 10 planets to maintain this system of consumption. This is the real problem. If you prefer to bring about birth control to keep your way of living in power, this is your point of view. I have a different one. If all humans were living like the natives of the planet, we could have 10 times more people on it. My point of view is that the real problem is not population, but over consumption and preventing free energy to naturally emerge in an evolving race who reached already this knowledge.

So, if your group claim that birth control is a solution, you are probably unconsciously misled by the Elite and participate in a movement of totalitarian control of the whole planet and all life on it.

I highly suggest you search more about this avenue and dig in this hole a bit further before seeding more humans with this dangerous thought. If many people really believe that there is in fact too many people on Earth, the Universe will indeed answer this call. All realities comes from consciousness... I hope you wake up before... This is not a coincidence you came here to post this...

Edit: To this I would add. Create a global problem, than bring up the solution to the people and they will treat you as a savior and accept without discernment what you propose. This is an old principle to govern, see Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli.

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-25-2009 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:18 PM   #6
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Default Re: Over-Population, new site for action

70 trillion dollars divided by 7 billion people= $10,000 per person. Let's divvy it up and start over!
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Old 10-25-2009, 06:38 PM   #7
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mmmmm... yes over population and climate control fear mongering... These are the wet dreams of tyrants. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:19 PM   #8
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Arrow Re: Over-Population, new site for action

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Best Greetings to All, Peace Be With You

First, let me ask: "Please don't shoot the messenger."

Second, I will ask if each of you has truly "done your homework" on this issue?

There are now nearly One-Billion Human Beings at starvation levels on this Earth. Do we disenfranchise our fellow Humans from the diminishing resources, leave them out of our compassion, should we forget they are in the pains of death?

Free energy would go a long way to helping, but does anyone see this being released by the "Powers-That-Be" soon? The greedy corporate interests want to suck the blood out of as many people as possible while they still control these dwindling resources of oil, gas, and energy.

Please consider the following excerpt from "A Road Towards Humanness" ...


[ The Issue of Over-Population has become Critical

[ Planet Earth and its inhabitants are suffering from diverse ills caused singularly and exclusively by man himself.

[ These already existing ills, however, will continue to proliferate until finally everything completely deteriorates.

[ The Earthʼs population is plagued by famines, energy shortages, epidemics, environmental pollution, degeneration, terrorism, dictatorship, anarchism, slavery, excessive increase of waste materials, racial hatred, food shortages, destruction of rain forests, the “greenhouse effect”, pollution of lakes, streams and oceans, hatred towards asylum-seekers; radioactive emissions, chemical pollution of water, air, plants, food, human beings and animals.

[ Crime, murder, mass murders, manslaughter; alcoholism, hatred of strangers, oppression, hatred of oneʼs fellowman, extremism, sectarianism, drug addiction, overpopulation, annihilation of animal species, war, violence, torture and capital punishment, general mismanagement, water contamination, eradication of plant species; hatred, vice, jealousy, lovelessness, lack of logic, false humanitarianism, lack of housing, increased traffic, destruction of arable land, unemployment, the collapse of health care, the collapse of care for the elderly, destruction of nature, the collapse of solid waste removal, and the lack of living space, among others.

[In spite of the many efforts, mankindʼs problems are not decreasing but, instead, continue to rise steadily in direct proportion to population increases.

[ Mankindʼs horrendous ills originate from and exist through overpopulation with its unrelenting, irresponsibly continuing escalation.

[ The situation dictates that any ill can only be fought and remedied by grasping it by its roots, ripping it out and destroying it: The numbers of terrestrial humankind must be drastically reduced.

[ The only humane method by which this reduction goal can be achieved, is through stringent birth control regulations that permit married couples, of a predetermined age, to have only a strictly specified number of children.

[ This regulation must prevail over any excuse, argument, fear and/or stupid comment from those numbskulls who claim, for military, religious, social, egoistical, false humanitarian reasons, or those of false charity, that a large number of offspring is necessary, or that birth control is contrary to religious beliefs and is inhumane, etc.

[ These inane claims are made singularly by rigid egotists, sectarians or people unfit to live those who have not the faintest idea of natureʼs laws, directives or truthful logic. ]


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Old 10-25-2009, 08:29 PM   #9
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The world isn't over populated.

No one needs to die.

No one needs to be sterilized.

No one needs to be prevented from the right of a family.

What we need to do is stop mass producing throw away products so that new products can be created the next week. We need to grab those clowns who are running the world and stick mercury shots in THEIR necks, instead of letting them do that to us while trying to convince us that we're a disease that needs to be culled down to 500,000,000.

I personally find the whole idea of population reduction ridiculous, and further I find any suggestions of sterilization, abortion or killing off current members of the population outright offensive and angering.

The world is NOT over populated. It is miss managed.

Period.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:19 PM   #10
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Over population!!! I'm verging on feeling offended that such an Idea is been bandied about. Sure the PTB would like this kind of agenda, However The few rule the many!!! so, what? we cull several billion so the few can enjoy their time in the sun sipping tea???

WE all know there is plenty of food, resources, technology for ALL who share this earth. Get rid of the few perhaps??

Peace always
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:21 PM   #11
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hand a shotgun to anyone who says we need to reduce the population.

They can start with themselves first.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Over-Population, new site for action

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_rod7;181266[FONT=Times New Roman
...First, let me ask: "Please don't shoot the messenger."

Second, I will ask if each of you has truly "done your homework" on this issue?

There are now nearly One-Billion Human Beings at starvation levels on this Earth. Do we disenfranchise our fellow Humans from the diminishing resources, leave them out of our compassion, should we forget they are in the pains of death?

Free energy would go a long way to helping, but does anyone see this being released by the "Powers-That-Be" soon? The greedy corporate interests want to suck the blood out of as many people as possible while they still control these dwindling resources of oil, gas, and energy.
[/FONT]
[ The Earthʼs population is plagued by famines, energy shortages, epidemics, environmental pollution, degeneration, terrorism, dictatorship, anarchism, slavery, excessive increase of waste materials, racial hatred, food shortages, destruction of rain forests, the “greenhouse effect”, pollution of lakes, streams and oceans, hatred towards asylum-seekers; radioactive emissions, chemical pollution of water, air, plants, food, human beings and animals.

[ Crime, murder, mass murders, manslaughter; alcoholism, hatred of strangers, oppression, hatred of oneʼs fellowman, extremism, sectarianism, drug addiction, overpopulation, annihilation of animal species, war, violence, torture and capital punishment, general mismanagement, water contamination, eradication of plant species; hatred, vice, jealousy, lovelessness, lack of logic, false humanitarianism, lack of housing, increased traffic, destruction of arable land, unemployment, the collapse of health care, the collapse of care for the elderly, destruction of nature, the collapse of solid waste removal, and the lack of living space, among others.

[ Mankindʼs horrendous ills originate from and exist through overpopulation with its unrelenting, irresponsibly continuing escalation.

[ The situation dictates that any ill can only be fought and remedied by grasping it by its roots, ripping it out and destroying it: The numbers of terrestrial humankind must be drastically reduced.

[ The only humane method by which this reduction goal can be achieved, is through stringent birth control regulations that permit married couples, of a predetermined age, to have only a strictly specified number of children.

[ This regulation must prevail over any excuse, argument, fear and/or stupid comment from those numbskulls who claim, for military, religious, social, egoistical, false humanitarian reasons, or those of false charity, that a large number of offspring is necessary, or that birth control is contrary to religious beliefs and is inhumane, etc.

[ These inane claims are made singularly by rigid egotists, sectarians or people unfit to live those who have not the faintest idea of natureʼs laws, directives or truthful logic. ]
I will not shoot the messenger J_Rod7, but I will certainly voice my opinion on what you just post here...

First, I have done my homework, a lot of homework. Since the age of 19 years old I'm fully involved into geopolitics research and work. I spend 5 years in the Amazonas jungle working with the caboclas and the indigenous people. I lived 2 years in Sulawesi Indonesia working in Kolaka for human rights. I will stop there cause I could fill up 2 pages of "homework".

Bringing about the sufferance of billions of people on Earth to justify birth control is simply totally insane. It is called emotive manipulation. The large united families of southern countries who live with very small assets are the ones who have the best chance of survival. Alcohol and the lack of the father presence is often the cause of disoriented families. Wars, oppression by the government in power, lack of education are much more the cause of the problems the southern countries suffers.

The "power-that-be" like you call them are the ones who were first to originate this idea of birth control because our number challenges their technical means to control us like they're planning to do.

Of all the problems you mentioned Humanity is actually suffering there is not a single one which has not originated from our own mass consciousness. And again, the manipulators are the ones responsible to maintain us all into ignorance about the Universal Laws of consciousness. They keep us focused on problems, so we all get more problems. They do this since a very long time through education, religion, science and politics. "Control their knowledge, direct their focus and bring about all kinds of problems into the crowd, so when you come with the grand solution (birth control) they will follow your thoughts as sheep follow their shepherd."

Now I have questions for you J_Rod7. After you finally got your birth control and the population reduced to less than 1 billion people on Earth, do you think these people will suffer no more? The Elite in place will simply vanished? Who guarantee you that the outcome will be less suffering on Earth? Who guarantee you that? Assumption? Do your homework...

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-25-2009 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 09:54 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Steven View Post
I will not shoot the messenger J_Rod7, but I will certainly voice my opinion on what you just post here...

First, I have done my homework, a lot of homework. Since the age of 19 years old I'm fully involved into geopolitics research and work. I spend 5 years in the Amazonas jungle working with the caboclas and the indegenous people. I lived 2 years in Sulawesi Indonesia working in Kolaka for human rights. I will stop there cause I could fill up 2 pages of "homeworks".

Bringing about the sufferance of billions of poeple on Earth to justify birth control is simply totally insane. It is called emotive manipulation. The large united famillies of southern coutries who live with very small assets are the ones who have the best chance of survival. Alchool and the lack of the father presence is often the cause of disoriented famillies. Wars, oppression by the governement in power, lack of education are much more the cause of the problems the southern coutries suffers.

The "power-that-be" like you call them are the ones who were first to originate this idea of birth control because our number challenges their technical means to control us like they're planning to do.

Of all the problems you mentionned Humanity is actually suffering there is not a single one which has not originated from our own mass consciousness. And again, the manipulators are the ones responsibles to maintain us all into ignorance about the Universal Laws of consciousness. They keep us focused on problems, so we all get more problems. They do this since a very long time through education, religion, science and politics. "Control their knowledge, direct their focus and bring about all kinds of problems into the crowd, so when you come with the grand solution (birth control) they will follow your thoughts as sheeps follow their shepherd."

Now I have questions for you J_Rod7. After you finally got your birth control and the population reduced to less than 1 billion poeple on Earth, do you think these people will suffer no more? The Elite in place will simply vanished? Who guarantee you that the outcome will be less suffering on Earth? Who guarantee you that? Assumption? Do your homework...

Namaste, Steven

Well said Steven!!!
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Old 10-26-2009, 09:31 PM   #14
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Best Greetings to All

Steven,

Thank you for your consideration. Your life experiences have made you well qualified in concern for the people of Earth. Please accept my gratitude for the services you have rendered for Human Rights.

To address your questions: ... "After you finally got your birth control and the population reduced to less than 1 billion poeple on Earth, do you think these people will suffer no more? The Elite in place will simply vanished? Who guarantee you that the outcome will be less suffering on Earth? Who guarantee you that? Assumption?"

When the Global Population is reduced to acceptable levels according to the true "carrying capacity" of the Earth, ALL people will 'suffer' MUCH LESS. There will then be enough resources -- food, land, energy, space, nature, &c -- to assure plenty for all Human Beings.

This can ONLY come about through an enlightened population working together to effect such a reduction in the Overpopulation. Enlightened people do NOT take lightly to demands of those "elites" holding power over them -- this should result in a paradigm shift in the electorate to choose leaders with greater Wisdom.

Guarantees? There are no guarantees in life. We take what we have, who we are, and go forward in the face of adversity, pick ourselves up when we stumble, with a goal to see the World wherein we have our lives become a better place.

I don't assume anything. I am also working to make the Earth a better place for all. This is a long-range goal, which I may not live to see to fruition, but to plant the seeds of logic and reasonableness for a better World for my Grand Children and their children.

http://www.thecircleforhumanity.net/

Truth Must Come Before Peace

Namaste

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Old 10-26-2009, 11:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_rod7 View Post
...When the Global Population is reduced to acceptable levels according to the true "carrying capacity" of the Earth, ALL people will 'suffer' MUCH LESS. There will then be enough resources -- food, land, energy, space, nature, &c -- to assure plenty for all Human Beings.

This can ONLY come about through an enlightened population working together to effect such a reduction in the Overpopulation. Enlightened people do NOT take lightly to demands of those "elites" holding power over them -- this should result in a paradigm shift in the electorate to choose leaders with greater Wisdom...
Hi J_rod7. Tell me, what is the true carrying capacity of the Earth? Where is it written? Who said that? From what research?

Of course, if we maintain the northern way of living and spread this non-sens example to the whole world there will be a shortage of resources. It is not due to the number of humans, but rather the way we live and consume. If your children are sicks you will find the cause and will cure them. Not eliminate them or preventing them to have kids. You do not touch the problems humanity suffers by reducing the amount of humans. A hundred years ago, there was less than 1 billion people on Earth with no less sufferance. And if we go ahead with this plan, Asia will be the main target, because they are by very far, the continent where population growth is the most impressive, even with Chinese birth control. Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WorldPopulation.png So, how do you plan to convince Asia to reduce their population? By stopping them to reproduce, because the next step for China is just about that...

The consumption society was well planned ahead. Right after the industrial revolution, we got into the consumption age. Planned by the banksters and the 13 families along with their puppets. The goal was to create pollution, shortage of resource, tremendous addiction to consumption... It worked...

Now, the second part of the plan is to bring up the solutions to the problems. One of these drastic solution is birth control. Another is megalopolis cities. Another is strict food and drug consumption. Another is an abolition of all religions into one single unified system of beliefs. Another is governance by one single planetary government, countries being states of this government system. Another is the replacement of the concept of private property, by a concept of lending rights of use...

I could go on and on about "their" plan for our future... That's not the point. The point is that this idea of "overpopulation" is not true. It came in the world in the late "70" by the mouths of the demographics researchers. Their own study financed by banks and old European families. At the same time, they were financing the new economic way of living based on hyper consumption.

Now, they are telling us there is too many people on Earth and are convincing many people with this drastic idea. What will be the limit after we permit this birth control? What will be the next step? They are already setting up our food chain, our vaccine, our electromagnetic environment to make us weaker to disease and dependent on drugs. This without even asking us about it. What would it be if we accept their own plan? Don't you see it is directly helping the Elites in place to propagate the idea of birth control?

Do you really think if there is a birth control, we the people, will be in control of it? If you think so, it is very naive. It does not work that way. I learned the hard way you simply can not transform the men in power to make them see your side. Our ultimate solution is education about the Universal Laws in depth. Not only the superficial fly by that some books carry on. The people are actually awakening to this evidence. It is not only coming from the readings, but much more deeply inside each of us who really realize the Universal Laws at work. It will create some massive change when the people will realize that consciousness is shaping all realities. This is when the number of 7 billions people makes them very afraid. They can not beat a massive positive focus. They are employing very highly mentally powerful human beings just to maintain a focus of domination and oppression on Earth. It is working because the mass is unconsciously helping them. But the awakening is actually happening and things will begin to change soon. I am not a prophet, just an observer.

Soon, we are due for good news...

Edit: I am in no mean firing at you J_Rod7. I simply challenge your ideas. I respect you with all my heart. There is no discussion more important than the beings behind the ideas. I am not my ideas and you are not yours, we are brothers and I fully accept your opinion in my world.

Namaste, Steven

Last edited by Steven; 10-26-2009 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 10-27-2009, 08:47 PM   #16
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Best Greetings Steven,
Please review the two sources from which these headings & excerpts originate. The second source may be more informative. As you (and others here) may see -- we do not work for any corrupt "elite" in whatever their agenda is; we are working FOR HUMANITY.

The "elite" will conduct endless wars if they choose to perpetuate their agendas, the "consumerism" includes the lives of Humans they see as "canon fodder" for the military-industrial machine to keep the tanks, ships, warplanes, &c rolling off their factory floors. To the "elite," Human misery doesn't even factor into their equations.

WILL HUMANITY WAKE UP…IN TIME?

RECENT CORROBORATION OF MEIER’S INFORMATION

*> Regarding environmental refugees

*> Regarding melting of glaciers (from 1964)
Unstoppable changes, global warming and rising sea levels
Rising sea levels and resulting refugees

*> Regarding loss of magnetic sense in man and animals

*> Dangers of nano-particles

*> Connections between earthquakes, and mining, damming of waters, oil/gas extraction, etc.

*> Regarding the coming "suicide industry" (from 1958)


(source 1) http://www.theyfly.com/articles/WILL...E_%20UP%20.htm

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Excerpt from:

Population Growth Without Limit? An End to a Taboo Subject!

[ Dealing with the topic of overpopulation can be compared to an ocean liner that heads full speed into a group of icebergs, meanwhile:

·> The crew and the passengers argue that the ticket prices should decrease and the employee wages should increase.
·> There is criticism that the engine has the wrong colour, or that not enough fuel was acquired and it will run out before reaching the next gas station; after which reassurance is given that the problem will solve itself with a little trust in God because someone will certainly find a new source of fuel on the way.
·> Inside the wheel house it is discussed whether the crew must be made up of an equal number of representatives from different countries, whereas one faction absolutely insists on having the right of veto on every decision.
·> Journalists on board write articles on liaisons between passengers whilst some among them though are worried about the discovery of an unusual increase in the number of icebergs within their range of sight.

[ And meanwhile the ocean liner travels straight ahead with undiminished speed. This preposterous situation corresponds in this instance not only to the actual state of the countries and governments of our Earth, but also to that of the bulk of the mass media.

[ If one deals more specifically with this plight/calamity, inevitably the question arises, why these circles, organizations and political parties, which espouse the cause of protecting the environment and who vociferously plead for a sustainable use of natural resources – quite often in an theatrical manner – and who shout out loud for measures against climate change and its impact, why do they avoid talking openly about the basic evil of all problems of our time, just as the devil avoids the holy water?!

[ On a large scale money is collected for the protection of dolphins and sharks from industrial fishing, for the protection of moorlands, lean pastures, rainforests and bird species, for the construction of water wells in Africa, but also for food-aid in regularly occurring droughts, as well as caring for stray dogs and cats, etc. etc.

[ And if we examine more closely all the many brochures and appeals for donation that land in our letter-boxes, we find out that barely ever even a small clue can be found therein about the fact that most of these problems could become so urgent and force countermeasures, only because the human population number downright exploded on our planet during the last 300 years and continues to do so at an exorbitant rate.

[ And if in the rare case the overpopulation issue is broached, the reference to practical and concrete measures against this tremendous menace for our civilisation is always missing!

[ Unfortunately, the human being has the tendency to close his “inner eyes” to the real misery of his fellow-men, which is quite often placed, manipulated and served bit by bit flashed in TV images, and he often prefers to bury his head in the sand, in the hope that all problems will be solved automatically. But in vain!

[ While a headache may have vanished or anger may have abated after sleep, unfortunately, this does not happen in the same scope on a global scale. When an oil well has run dry, it is unrealistic to expect that it will be filled up again after one year, and that the obviously increasing number of disasters triggered by severe weather isn't getting smaller, only because the people living in potential floodplains wish or hope it would be this way.

[ The refusal of many people, after recognizing a deplorable state of affairs, to allow appropriate responsible action to follow, leads to the fact, that either they are rushing through life with blinkers on or they are immersed in the illusory world of the “living-room altar” (=television sets) where the people, through the well-known “bread and circuses“ palliation method allow themselves to be lulled, and often either deteriorate into physical or consciousness dullness or into destructive aggressiveness.

[ However, this is not only the case in industrial countries, but equally in large areas of the so-called “developing countries”, where the world often is perceived through the “spectacles” of escapist TV-series; combined with appropriate frustration when the discrepancy between the ”dream world” and real everyday life penetrates into the consciousness. ... ... ...


<<This following is the answer to "where these Ideas come from." (same source & URL page, below) As you will see, we DO NOT associate with those "elites," nor follow in any way their designs on Earth Humanity.>>

[ Before starting to explain the concrete measures, I have to make a digression to something very important: The fight against overpopulation is only one of many important issues that are pursued by FIGU or its members, and presented to the public.

[ One the one hand, the focus of our activities lies on the fulfillment of one’s own self-responsibility in connection with performing and developing one’s own intrinsic values and realizations (virtues, character, striving for the truth, etc.), and on the other hand on the dissemination of writings and information (the so-called “spiritual teaching”), that allows people to identify the true meaning of life, (which are) veiled and falsified by the religions, and to free oneself from beliefs.

[ Although we have nothing in common with religions and sects, we respect the right of every person to become blessed by his own belief, at least when no fellow-human beings are harmed and when, e.g., no misdirected suicide bombers are trying to send those of different faiths into the hereafter, because they live in an idiotic delusional belief that virgins galore are waiting for them in heaven. (The belief in the existence of virgins in heaven, who soon won't be virgins any more, would require a lot of explaining, but is not the focus of this article. Such a belief belongs in the same category as the image of eternal harp-playing on the heavenly clouds, or that billions of deceased souls are sitting at God's feet.)

[ We FIGU members demand of ourselves to avoid the fields of belief, illusion and delusion and to always search for the truth behind all things. Furthermore, we let people share in the valuable information that is transmitted to us from highly-developed human beings from other worlds (extraterrestrials) via their Swiss intermediary “Billy” Eduard A. Meier.

[ This information is extraordinarily helpful for understanding our position in the universe, to avoid unnecessary errors and to eventually achieve freedom on Earth. And last but not least it is extremely important to point out the fact that the human being does not live once only, in order to then vanish into a heaven or a hell for all eternity.

[ The realization of the fact that all of us incarnate again and again in new bodies over millions of years, on the planet where we have died, is very important for the understanding of the justice of our proposed measures which are explained later in this text.

[ If it is recognized and accepted that – after our death – we human beings will incarnate with a new personality in a new body and will then find before us the world and those conditions that we have left to our children and children’s children, then the urgency of these measures unexpectedly may look quite different! And the fact that the gender of people will not remain the same over different incarnations, but rather that a former man can be born as a woman sooner or later, and the other way around, may possibly allow one to be attuned thoughtfully to one or the other; this may be especially the case if it is a question of living together as man and woman, and the related expectations, attitudes of thought and abusive actions. Anyone who is interested in this matter may find much information (in German, and some in English and other languages) in our books and booklets, and on the Internet (www.figu.org).


[ At the beginning of the nineties of the 20th century, in booklet Nr. 1 on the subject of overpopulation, Billy Meier proposed radical, but nevertheless humane measures to get the raging overpopulation and its resulting effects under control as fast as possible.

[ These measures, the application of which successfully and definitively solved the problems of overpopulation on other worlds tens of thousands of years ago, lead back to the old prophets Nokodemion and Henok. Billy Meier’s radical and concrete proposals may offend many people and in many people may provoke a “thinking system breakdown”, including an “inner outcry”.

[ This, however, can only be the case with people whose reason and sense of responsibility is insufficiently developed, or with those, who have no knowledge of the profound hidden values. To close this gap of knowledge, it is necessary that the system and the many connected measures are explained in detail. ] ... ... ...


(source 2) http://www.theyfly.com/On_Overpopulation.html

Let's work together in a common goal for Humanity

http://www.thecircleforhumanity.net/

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Old 10-27-2009, 08:54 PM   #17
pineal-pilot-in merkabah
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we arent overpopulated. 1% of the population use and control somethingf like 60% of the resources.. iys all ********. the action id like to take is to shag like a rabbit and have ten kids.. k thanks
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Old 10-27-2009, 11:59 PM   #18
Steven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_rod7 View Post
...Furthermore, we let people share in the valuable information that is transmitted to us from highly-developed human beings from other worlds (extraterrestrials) via their Swiss intermediary “Billy” Eduard A. Meier...

...At the beginning of the nineties of the 20th century, in booklet Nr. 1 on the subject of overpopulation, Billy Meier proposed radical, but nevertheless humane measures to get the raging overpopulation and its resulting effects under control as fast as possible...

...These measures, the application of which successfully and definitively solved the problems of overpopulation on other worlds tens of thousands of years ago, lead back to the old prophets Nokodemion and Henok. Billy Meier’s radical and concrete proposals may offend many people and in many people may provoke a “thinking system breakdown”, including an “inner outcry”...
Alright, now I know from where you caught these ideas. Billy Meier... Well, how can I put it?

First of, you have not answer my question. What is the number of humans Earth may sustain? I will help you with this. There is no answers... It all depends on how we use our resources and behave all together...

We live like natives, Earth may sustain 100 billion people without even a scratch. We live like northern societies and you need 10 planets Earth to sustain 7 billion people.

I already told you from where this consumption system was conceived and for what goal...

Now, I have read all the post you just made and the author does a very huge mistake. He (I'm sure it is a male) confuses global problems all together. Squeezing them all into one big source, overpopulation.

Global problems as well as personal problems are all taking their source into CONSCIOUSNESS. Bringing birth control will not resolve any of these problems, I certainly think it will drastically worsen them.

Let me picture you this. You have your birth control. You got a number. 1 billion people on Earth. You haven't touched anything else. Now, the natural flow of evolution of any intelligent species is to thrives. So, in order to maintain this number, you will have to apply birth control artificially forever on Earth. Two kids, to replace two parents. Balancing male and female birth. Adjusting the life expectancies. And probably having to tweak human DNA for this to all work out. It begins to look like a farm regulated by all mighty beings. Man, I do not like this perspective.

Nature does just the same, but without birth control. At a giving number, if we keep consuming like this, you will not have to bring about your birth control to humanity. It will be done by Earth itself, and not necessarily by violent means, but rather like it already does in nature. Just observe...

Make some research about Billy Meir, please...

I have another question. Does this group "the circle of humanity" ask for money from its members and if yes, what is the average amount members are giving?

Namaste, Steven

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Old 10-28-2009, 02:08 AM   #19
J_rod7
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Hi Steven,

[ "First of, you have not answer my question. What is the number of humans Earth may sustain? I will help you with this. There is no answers... It all depends on how we use our resources and behave all together..." ] = Answer = 530-Million. This is calculated from the Total arable land from which each and every family unit may become self-sufficient.

[ "Earth may sustain 100 billion people without even a scratch." ] = NO, it can't; That is TOTALLY unreasonable.

[ "He (I'm sure it is a male)..." ] = Billy Meier is a male, his first extraterrestrial contact from the Pleiadian Federation, Semjase, was a female, Michael Horn, at http://www.theyfly.com/ is a male, I am a male, of the 24-members in our Circle For Humanity 7 are females and 17 are males. What difference does it make?

[ "...confuses global problems all together. Squeezing them all into one big source, overpopulation." ] = Because ALL the problems listed arise directly FROM the Massive Global Over-Population. Sorry to find that you are confused by this.

[ "...you will have to apply birth control artificially forever on Earth." ] = When the population is Balanced, Enlightened. and follow the Creation Laws -- the people all will be aware of the PRINCIPLE of SELF-RESPONSIBILITY, self-regulation would be the normal practice.

[ "...if we keep consuming like this, you will not have to bring about your birth control to humanity. It will be done by Earth itself..." ] = Exactly -- By disease, epidemics, wars of attrition, mass starvations, murders, gang warfares, Floods, earthquakes, toxins and poisons in the air and water, failed resource distribution systems, failed electrical grids, droughts, crop failures === Oh, yes, Earth and Nature will solve the problem FOR us, if we fail to act with reason for ourselves.

[ "Does this group "the circle of humanity" ask for money from its members..." ] = No, Nada, Zippo, Zero; we are all volunteers working together for a common singular cause. The members of our Circle are from all corners of the Earth = USA, Saudi Arabia, Netherlands, Canada, England, Brazil, Australia, Columbia, Singapore, The Philippines, Iran, Luxembourg, Germany, Switzerland, and Spain. We pay no dues, all members are true equals in all decisions and policy, our "offices" are with each of our families in each of our own homes. Neither do we ask for "donations" from anyone.

~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~

Water Shortages - The harsh reality
Wednesday, 21 October 2009 21:46 Stephen Moore (one of our members from England)

[ Water ! - We all need it.

[ Water is one basic natural eliment that is fundamental to life on Earth. Animals, Plants and Humans all need water. Humans are at a disadvantage when it comes to water. We need clean fresh water. Our bodies and our health becomes impaired when we drink dirty contaminated water.

[ Humans who live in countries where water is on tap go about their daily lives not giving a second thought to water, where we get it from, how much is used, how much is available or if we would run out of clean fresh water. Most countries on Earth who are developed enough and who are not crippled by government debt, corruption, greed and environmental exploitation get their water from lakes, rivers and reservoirs. You may ask well whats the problem?

[ The problem is too much consumption and not enough time for nature to naturally sustain supply.

[ Let me explain.

[ With the current rising global temperatures around the world the ice caps on mountains are melting and not freezing. These ice caps would normally melt slowly in the summer and provide water for restocking rivers, lakes and reservoirs. In the winter months these ice caps would freeze thus restocking the stored water for the next cycle of summer. A natrual cycle of nature. However today this is not happening. With warmer temperatures the ice is not freezing during winter months. Ice caps are in fact melt down and they are melting faster as the years pass by.

[ With increasing temperatures comes lack of rain fall. This can be noticed by observing the summer and winter months on Earth. Summer months have naturally less rain fall then winter months. If temperatures rise in winter months then less rain fall comes apparent and lakes, rivers and reservoirs do not get restocked with water.

[ Here comes the harsh reality. Over-population of Earth by mankind.

[ The Earth is suffering from a vast Over-population of our species. At the end of 2007 the human population totalled around 7,700,000,000 (7.7 billion). This number has increased and continues to increase today. All these humans need water. Water to drink and water to grow food. The consumption of water is overwhelming supply.

[ With this huge amount of humans living on Earth we are damaging the atmosphere with our polutants from the burning of fossil fuels, chemicals released into the atmosphere, destruction of rain forests, ozone depletion and the list goes on. Therefore the climate change issue is really about the Over-population issue. With rising temperatures and huge consumption of water we, mankind, are sealling our own fate and signing our own death certificate.

[ Rivers, lakes and reservoirs around the world are diminishing and/or have dried up. How long will it be before we start to seriously be affected by water shortages? How long can stocks and supplies last before a total collapse? With rising human numbers and no one in possitions of power taking measures to stop the rising human numbers the answer is soon. Maybe next year, within a decade or in 50 years. The truth is if we do not stop increasing the number of humans on this planet we will see a total collapse of water supplies and food supplies. Its just a question of when.

[ Links to the harsh reality of water shortages -

Catastrophic Fall in 2009 Global Food Production
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=12252

Water shortage threatens two million people in southern Iraq
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...ge-threat-iraq

Australia's largest river close to running dry
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...murray-drought

Colorado river running on empty by 2050
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...28/network-usa

Bolivia: water people of Andes face extinction
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...climate-change

~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
Above from:
"The News" at http://www.thecircleforhumanity.net/

Peace Be With You

Namaste

Rod

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Old 10-28-2009, 08:12 AM   #20
Steven
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Hi J_Rod7. So the Earth can maintain 530 millions humans according to the surface of arable land. That is totally false... You need to include sea as well, since many culture live with all kind of sea foods. Who have came to these totally false calculations, the 13 famillies, see it here:http://loveforlife.com.au/content/08...nclosure-sheep

You got your number on the Georgia guidestone. How wise... You are blindly following a madman... Himself following madmen...

And it all depends on how you use these resources. Claiming Earth can only sustain 530 millions people clearly shows a tremendous egoism to keep our destructive way of consuming. In other words, you prefers to keep your northern way of life and sacrificing the freedom of life instead of accepting to reduce your consumption... That is far away from self-responsibility.

Self-responsibility means that someone is aware of the Universal Laws of consciousness that shapes the realities and cares about all that emanates from him/her because he/she knows it does affect his/her life and the surrounding.

You are really convince all Earth and human problems are originating from our population size. Another false idea. I told you, all problems are taking there source into consciousness, not only problems, but all aspect of life, see it as problems or not. You want to change something into an aspect of life, you GOT TO work at the consciousness level. If you don't understand that, you will only worsen the case with non-sens action like birth control.

You told me "When the population is Balanced, Enlightened. and follow the Creation Laws -- the people all will be aware of the PRINCIPLE of SELF-RESPONSIBILITY, self-regulation would be the normal practice."

We have already gone by the number in the 19th century, what happened next? You think that the people will get enlightened by reducing their number? Follow the Creation Laws? And birth control is following the Creation' Laws?

That is so far away from the truth. And I'm being kind here.

Earth regulates itself and I repeat, it is not violently. Corrupted mind always come up with destructive means. You are making projection there. Look at nature behavior. If there was no war and the consciousness of its inhabitants was peaceful, there would be no Earthquake, no Tsunami, no destructive volcano eruption. Our restless consciousness increase the strength of these natural event to an extreme that causes sufferance, all by the Creation's Laws.

Birth control is an immense sacrilege to Earth. You know why? Because Earth is a sentient being, with consciousness and emotion. We are here because she wanted us here. We humans were born into Earth's consciousness before manifesting into reality. We are her children and she keep us into her consciousness to maintain all life in reality. Birth control would be taking her responsibility away and controlling her own world. Humanity is created from Earth consciousness in conjunction with the Creation to give our souls an opportunity to live an experience of evolution here. Birth control intervene into this grand process. Just like many intervention we already do into nature.

So the solution is in awakening to the world of consciousness. Seeing it as it is. Realizing that all realities takes shape into any consciousness before it comes into manifestation.

You are so focused on the large scale problems that you only worsen them. You want peace, go and focus on peace, not by focusing on how to stop wars. Do you understand this? You and your friends members are all panicking by getting stuck into large scale problems. Most of the time false flags. You are nurturing yourself on problems and fear of the future. And the best solution you come up with
to solve all these problems is to eliminate 90% of humanity. And you are asking us to join your group? That's impressively unconscious.

Namaste, Steven

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Old 10-28-2009, 04:55 PM   #21
TheObserver
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Let's put it simply, individual people/couples should have both choices, the choice to conceive,
and the choice to terminate pregnancy in a clean and safe clinical setting.
The state should stay out of it and groups of people should stay out of it.
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:11 PM   #22
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Best Greetings All, Peace Be With You

Steven,

[ "You got your number on the Georgia guidestone. How wise..." ] = No, that's not where the information comes from. I had never heard of this "Georgia Guidestone" group or website until you brought it to my attention. Well, I am glad to see that some others agree with us on this issue. I have to wonder -- from where they got this number? The truth is that the Pleiadian contacts gave this assessment to Billy Meier MANY years ago. Please see: ...

http://www.futureofmankind.co.uk/Bil...ecial:Petition

[ "So the solution is in awakening to the world of consciousness. Seeing it as it is. Realizing that all realities takes shape into any consciousness before it comes into manifestation." ] = To this, I absolutely agree.

~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~

[ " Population Growth Without Limit? -- An End to a Taboo Subject!

[ Christian Frehner, Switzerland, 2008


[ "For more than 30 years, the members of FIGU have endeavoured to bring awareness to mankind — especially to the governments — that the rapid population increase on earth poses an immense danger and must be stopped immediately, and that a reduction must take place to a mass that is tolerable for the planet. (According to our calculations at that time, this tolerable mass was calculated to be 529 million people — a population total that can guarantee all resources would be available in abundance, that nature’s ability for regeneration is preserved and that large areas remain where the animal and plant kingdoms could develop undisturbed.) We feel obligated to throw light on this because we have realised that the fate of humanity rests on whether or not this most pressing of all great problems of our time is solved. Overpopulation is really the determining problem-factor, because the more people that live on the Earth, the greater all the other problems become and the more the demand exists for not only energy resources like oil, natural gas and uranium, but also fresh water, living space and food, etc.

[ "One of the primary reasons for the fact that the hot potato “Stop the population growth” is not grasped in all countries – perhaps with exception of China, or India a few decades ago (however with unsatisfactory results) – is the fact that the effective and concrete measures are closely linked to a taboo topic, namely with sexuality and, associated with it, the – justified – protection of human privacy. Every measure against overpopulation inevitably affects the use of the genitals, and hardly anyone is willing to allow any interference into one’s own sexual activities, not to mention by the government! And so human reproduction is running along still at full speed in many countries. Nature and environment break down, whilst the majority of people in the corridors of power (in politics, economics and media), the so-called elites, are still pouring oil into the fire of irrationality with their prayer-wheel manner of shouting “growth, growth, growth”. Nothing is against growth, if it is a question of quality of life, or about intrinsic values like love, peace, harmony and wisdom. And nothing is against growth in the sense that there are better crops because the plants are more robust against pests (and if additionally thereby the taste and the mineral content would also increase). Unfortunately and as a general rule, there is no demand for this kind of growth, but instead the constant increase of the stock markets (Note: Quarterly results, connected with the corresponding short term view), the increase of wealth as well as the increase of consumer markets, so that the consumers always buy more dubious and truly useless products, which again needlessly accelerates the consumption of precious resources even more. The Result: Ever cheaper products of ever worsening quality and with less durability. Profit maximization, extra dividends and exorbitant payment of wages, which bear no relation to the efforts, lottery winnings, second and third homes, luxury, living the high life: pure materialistic growth, wherever we look, even in the so-called third world countries, where only a small social class parasitizes and lives like the maggots in bacon at the expense of the poor population. The motto: benefits as high as possible, with the lowest possible input.

[ "It‘s a shame that the governments of the countries, but also the political parties in general, as well as commerce cannot, or will not, acknowledge “the signs on the wall”, i.e. the overpopulation problem and the interconnected threat to our future, and therefore they do not grapple with at the root of the problem. Additionally, the electorate (those who vote) are acting in a similarly disgraceful way when they elect these incompetent politicians to their offices. The few exceptions to the rule are really exceptions and almost have to be searched for with a magnifying glass. And the fact that most of the so-called environmental protection organizations, as well as the main religions and their sects, shy away from becoming active and recognizing and clearly naming overpopulation as the main problem and multiplier/disseminator for the other big problems like famine, climate change, migration, wars, epidemics, criminality, etc., is extremely scandalous. However, we FIGU members are not afraid to deal with the taboo subject “population reduction” and to rub peoples’ noses in it, and hit them around the ears, with concrete countermeasures for the whole of mankind, that have been under their noses for so long, until all governments wake up and begin to act in a concrete manner, and until the population number has decreased to a number that is digestible or compatible for our planet. And this compatible size for the planet Earth ranges somewhere between half a billion and one billion people, because the optimal total population figures are dependent on the climate, the available resources and the fertile land etc., and this has to be definitively determined in due time. We FIGU members and our friends have great perseverance and we are aware of the fact that this is a task that will challenge us over centuries." ]

From:
http://www.thecircleforhumanity.net/...d=50&Itemid=27

~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~

Anyway Steven, I am not "into" any prolonged back-and-forth arguments, not with you nor anyone else.

So Bless You and have a happy life.

http://www.thecircleforhumanity.net/

Namaste

Rod

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Old 10-28-2009, 07:49 PM   #23
Fredkc
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Population;
Ok, my first reaction is that this is something I prefer "we" do not meddle with.
a) We ain't smart enough.
b) We ain't nice enough.
c) "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" (Who watches the watchersd?)

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington.
"The first task is population control at home. How do we go about it? Many of my colleagues feel that some sort of compulsory birth regulation would be necessary to achieve such control. One plan often mentioned involves the addition of temporary sterilants to water supplies or staple food. Doses of the antidote would be carefully rationed by the government to produce the desired population size."
— Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb, p.135

"At present the population of the world is increasing at about 58,000 per diem. War, so far, has had no very great effect on this increase, which continued throughout each of the world wars.. War has hitherto been disappointing in this respect, but perhaps bacteriological war may prove effective.
If a Black Death could spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full. The state of affairs might be unpleasant, but what of it?"
- Lord Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science On Society (Routledge Press: New York, 1951)

"The world has a cancer, and that cancer is man." — Merton Lambert - former spokesman for the Rockefeller Foundation - Harpeth Journal, December 18, '62

“There are many ways to make the death rate increase”
-Robert McNamara in New Solidarity, March 30, 1981

"It’s terrible to have to say this. World population must be stabilized and to do that we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. This is so horrible to contemplate that we shouldn’t even say it. "
- Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier, Nov. 1994

"One-fourth of humanity must be eliminated from the social body. We are in charge of God's selection process for planet Earth. He selects, we destroy. We are the riders of the pale horse, Death."
- Psychologist Barbara Marx Hubbard - member and futurist/strategist of Task Force Delta; a United States Army think tank

"If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels."
— Prince Phillip - Duke of Edinburgh, leader of the World Wildlife Fund - quoted in 'Are You Ready For Our New Age Future?', Insiders Report, American Policy Center, December '95
I am having trouble rectifying the notion that we "can't feed'em all" with the fact my daughter is keeping a family of 7 stuffed full of vegetables, AND giving surplus away, on 10 acres. And still isn't using all that land. [see this post]

Also remember that when it comes to giving government, ANY government charge of anything, the law of unintended consequences comes into play immediately after the next election. That there is nothing passed with the best of intentions that cannot be perverted into something else.
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Old 10-28-2009, 07:59 PM   #24
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And don't forget the potential of hydroponics and vertical farms.

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Old 10-29-2009, 12:28 AM   #25
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My intuitive understanding, based on some materials I've come across, is a bit different.

I believe the earth is literally designed to house 10 Billion humans in embodiment.

I believe there are 10 Billion souls that are currently a part of this world, a few billion of which are in between embodiments right now. The way it's supposed to be, is we are all here in embodiment at once, we live much longer lives, and then after a fruitful and wonderful experience here, we ascend to experiences in a higher realm and new souls come in and have their turn.

Once you're here, you'll have to balance karma you've made here before you get your exit pass. There are new souls waiting to come in.

It's time for many to graduate so we can have the game moving higher and room can be made for those whose turn it is to play and grow here.

When there are 10,000 Christ Beings manifest on our planet (more about this later in another thread... much More ), the collective consciousness will shift into the golden age consciousness. There will be no more lack and suffering, literally, we will move past that into a world of wonder and amazement where every one of the souls embodied here, and the extra few billion that will make it 10 billion in the not so very far future, will have the true opportunity to connect to their divine talents and bring forth their creative expressions from the infinite.

People are worried about the ice caps melting.... my understanding is there is a continent under at least one of the polls, and as we move into the golden age, the earth will move back properly on to it's centered access so that there is moderate / nice temperatures on all places of planet earth without the crazy extremes of desert and ice cold lands (not to mention the ancient archeological artifacts of old civilizations we will find under the ice cap(s)). There will be plenty of more space for people under these conditions.

We are headed for a world and life that surpases are wildest expectations, the key to getting there is to become more focused on others than we are on ourselves. That simple, that's how we pass this grade. However, it is more complex, in that it takes a Christ mass of Beings to go all the Way and to be reborn below as they already are above, as the Living Christ. Are you one of them?

(off topic? --> Well a futurist viewpoint for what needs to happen Now I guess).

Last edited by 14 Chakras; 10-29-2009 at 02:20 AM.
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